No Lie featuring Robert Horn

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's really rough out there. It always has been. People think it's rough now. It's always been rough. People have had to put on different faces and masks and maybe not even be themselves.
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Speaker 2: Right, right.
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Speaker 3: What's the worst lie that you ever told a lover or boyfriend?
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Speaker 1: Oh, me. Wow. Okay. Well, let me think. All right, I know.
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Speaker 2: Wow.
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Speaker 1: So big. So big. The biggest ever. Like, yeah, yeah. You really knocked something loose there, Tiger.
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Speaker 3: He believed me.
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Speaker 1: He believed you. They want to.
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Speaker 3: They want to. They need to believe that.
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Speaker 2: Of course.
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Speaker 1: You know. You moved my uterus.
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Speaker 2: Thank you.
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Speaker 1: I walked a bowlegged for a week just to play. You know what I'm saying? To sell it.
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Speaker 3: Why did you feel that you needed to sell it?
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Speaker 1: Well, you know, people need confidence.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 1: And suddenly they can move mountains.
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Speaker 3: Right.
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Speaker 1: So what about you? I mean, what's the lie? Have you told a boyfriend or a paramour? I.
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Speaker 3: pride myself on being a truth teller. I have not lied to boyfriends or lovers. I tell the truth always.
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Speaker 1: No, that's a lie.
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Speaker 3: It is a lie. It's a lie. But I've been lied to. And you remember, I'm not going to say his name. You remember somebody that I was dating.
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Speaker 1: He liked to sing.
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Speaker 3: I remember that. He liked to sing.
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Speaker 4: Yes.
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Speaker 1: He liked to sing ballads.
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Speaker 3: He did.
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Speaker 1: Just once.
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Speaker 3: He was a, you might call him a balladeer. So I went to hug him one time. And when I hugged him, there was a blonde hair on his shoulder. And I was like, what's this? And he says, that's yours. I was like, look, I don't have any blonde hair. And he said, oh, oh, my mother is a laundress. A laundress? The last time that was a profession was 1853. Yeah, yeah, my mother takes in laundry from the neighborhoods. Meanwhile, there was nobody with a blonde hair living in his neighborhood.
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Speaker 1: No, no.
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Speaker 3: And so he said, the laundry commingled with my t-shirts and that is why.
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Speaker 1: But it's not as weird as wondering, what are you doing dating somebody who uses the word laundress? You should have already... You know, sorry.
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Speaker 3: I should have known. Points off. And he's out. He's out. And he had a baby with her, but that's another story.
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Speaker 1: Oh, my God. It gets worse. You can't hurt me. With a laundress?
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Speaker 3: It was a laundress. No, he said that the hair of the person whose mother's clothing was washing with his, commingled. And I was like, you have to understand, I had to pull the blonde hair out of the fibers.
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Speaker 1: Of your- What was it, a pubic hair? I mean, it sounds like it was woven in.
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Speaker 3: It was long and it was blonde. That's all you need to know.
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Speaker 1: Wow.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: Welcome back to Reliving Single.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, welcome back.
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Speaker 3: The official, unofficial. Unofficial. Rewatch podcast.
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Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. Yeah, there we go.
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Speaker 3: So we're talking about an episode called A Kiss Before Lying, but I want to just tell you, no lie, I love my earrings. So Erica gave me these earrings. You were recently in Brooklyn.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: You know that I'm from Brooklyn, and so I hope y'all are getting up on these beautiful Brooklyn earrings.
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Speaker 1: They're great on you. And purple is your thing, by the way. It is, it is. And they're really wonderful. It came from a place called Brooklyn Made, which is the Chamber of Commerce. Really tries to support artists. And so that's an artist that you've got there and, you know, just giving some love. But it looks really great on you.
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Speaker 2: Welcome. I love it.
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Speaker 1: I'm always thinking of you.
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Speaker 3: I didn't even know about these and I, you know, made it happen for the show today.
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Speaker 1: You sure did.
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Speaker 2: No lie. No lie.
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Speaker 3: No lie at all.
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Speaker 2: So thank you.
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Speaker 3: No lying.
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Speaker 1: This week we're going to be talking about lying.
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Speaker 2: Right. A lot.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: A kiss before lying.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: This episode.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: So what happens in this episode?
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Speaker 1: Well, we got season one, episode four, A Kiss Before Lying. This is where Max's former boyfriend invites her to dinner with him and his fiance. Max agrees, and as usual, chaos ensues.
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Speaker 3: Now, let's talk about that. Why would this man come to meet you with his fiance, knowing that you all were broken up?
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Speaker 1: I don't know. But men are, you know, they're not logical creatures. You know, you don't look to them for... Too much logic. You dig what I'm saying? That's just what it is.
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Speaker 3: Emotional logic.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, not that.
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Speaker 1: But, you know, and the B story is.
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Speaker 3: Overton is trying to fix the water pressure in the apartment.
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Speaker 1: There you go.
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Speaker 3: And he's good at that, right? But he's also trying to fix some other water, some other pressure. He's trying to put some pressure.
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Speaker 1: Over to- Yeah, on who?
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Speaker 3: On me.
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Speaker 1: Okay, well- Not.
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Speaker 3: Pressure, but he has set his sights on me, and he's using fixing things in my fascination with him, with his ability to fix things, to woo me.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: It works in the end. We get married.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you're not giving me anything away.
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Speaker 3: No, not at all.
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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a rewatch thing. So- It's a perfect demonstration of our season theme, which is chemistry. We talk a lot about that. It's no small thing. This was written by Rob Horn and Danny Margosis. We love them. They were fantastic writers. They are still. They had great voice for what they put in the show, In particular for Max and Kyle. They did a lot of those storylines.
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Speaker 3: I think what's interesting about them is that they had this really great ability to write quips and back and forth, great back and forth, quippy, clippy, snappy.
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Speaker 1: Acerbic.
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Speaker 2: Yes.
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Speaker 1: Pull up off of it.
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Speaker 3: They were the best at that.
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Speaker 1: They had a light touch. It's not an easy thing to do.
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Speaker 2: No.
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Speaker 1: And they demonstrated really well in this episode. In this episode, we got some great friends.
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Speaker 3: Come on now.
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Speaker 1: The sexy... Come on.
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Speaker 2: Come on now.
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Speaker 1: Kalita Smith. Y'all know her. She's a future Bernie Mac wife. Kalita's one of the sexiest people in the universe. She really is.
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Speaker 3: John Hinton says, and I hope I'm not going to get in trouble saying this, he says she's scary sexy. I said, well, John, what do you mean by this? I can't, I can't. If you don't understand, you don't understand. He says she's scary. But it's not put on. It's not fake. It's her DNA. She just exudes this sensual beingness. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Every time she walks past me, I think I got a twinge. And you know I'm not even... You know what I'm saying?
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Speaker 3: If she's also kind and sweet and all that goes along with it, but there is a sensuality about her that just is natural.
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Speaker 1: And who else do we have?
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Speaker 2: We have Jeffrey.
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Speaker 3: Sams, who is lovely.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: He's handsome.
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Speaker 1: Way to exhale, all of that.
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Speaker 3: We had him before all that.
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Speaker 1: Who?
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Speaker 3: We had Jeffrey Sams before all this other, all the other things happened.
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Speaker 1: That's one thing the show was really good at.
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Speaker 3: Our guest star game.
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Speaker 1: Guest star roles for really talented people. And so we were blessed by that.
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Speaker 2: We had.
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Speaker 1: So yeah, we got all them on there. And Max is now developing. We see her, you know, expand. I mean, up until now, we know she's a lawyer. We know she keeps talking about this boyfriend that has done her wrong.
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Speaker 3: And didn't you leave with a raggedy duffel bag?
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. And she's coming into her own. And Kyle is going to be recruited in this episode to be her boyfriend. And so we start to realize what a great comedy team we are together. If I say so myself.
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Speaker 3: What amazing chemistry you all have naturally.
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Speaker 1: Again, you don't know that it's there. If you got it, it's partners. It's gold. It's something that you can't.
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Speaker 3: You can't manufacture it.
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Speaker 1: You can't manufacture it. It's a really fun episode. And the real story, you should know, is from Yvette Lee Bowser's life. She had a boyfriend. And he knows about this. That I think they were going to get married or something. And then he left her. And I think she was hurt by it, but she turns it into comedy gold. That's the thing about Yvette. She's resilient.
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Speaker 2: Indeed.
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Speaker 1: Indeed. She's wanted to be a lawyer. It's based on her real life experience, but it became therapy for her. It's good. And I was playing it out. Had no idea.
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Speaker 3: Had no idea.
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Speaker 1: Had no idea.
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Speaker 3: Does she say to you that you did it well? That she really... resonates with what you did or that you healed something or that she saw it a different way because of the way you played the character?
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Speaker 1: No, I never heard her say anything like that. Although, Yvette, if you want to, I'm here. Listen, let's ask her when she comes on the show. Lift me up, girl.
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Speaker 3: Let's ask her when she comes on the show.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, but she's definitely writing from her point of view. The thing is, I didn't know that about her. Again, I'm playing a part and don't even know that it's connected to her. I think it took me some years to really realize how much.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: So, yeah.
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Speaker 2: All right, good.
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Speaker 3: Well, let's watch some clips.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's get it going.
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Speaker 2: Power with the posse. It's urgent.
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Speaker 4: What's up, yo?
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Speaker 2: Greg called.
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Speaker 1: Tell me this is not the Greg I'm thinking of. Tell me this is Greg the mailman.
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Speaker 4: Tell me it's Greg the bald-headed barber.
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Speaker 1: You better tell me it's Greg Brady.
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Speaker 2: No, it's the Greg.
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Speaker 4: He left four messages on my machine today.
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Speaker 1: Oh, that's nice.
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Speaker 3: Don't call him back. So we're now seeing Maxine Shaw in her full glory. Is this your first A story?
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Speaker 1: I don't know. I was part of an A story with Regine when they're fighting over, like, you know, don't date the man I just dumped. That type of thing. But I think it is the first time we see it on her life in this Yeah, so she comes through the door.
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Speaker 2: Boom.
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Speaker 1: Boom.
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Speaker 3: First of all, that jacket was incredible.
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Speaker 1: I look good, do I?
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Speaker 2: You look great.
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Speaker 3: You look great.
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Speaker 2: What?
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Speaker 3: Great.
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Speaker 1: The power suits.
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Speaker 3: The power suits.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, they understood. They understood that. You know what?
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Speaker 1: And it was a thing in the 90s. There was a lot of power suits. If you look like Murphy Brown and even L.A. Law.
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Speaker 2: Right. Right?
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Speaker 1: Women were serving their power. Yeah.
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Speaker 3: Women were wearing these sort of more masculinized looks in order to really assert their power.
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Speaker 1: That's true, but I didn't think they were masculinized because I looked like a girl. You saw that power collar?
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Speaker 3: It's true, I'm just saying, in general, the look was, now we're going to wear suits like men. Yours was, you know, it was shaped.
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Speaker 1: Tapered.
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Speaker 3: Right. And you always wore like a, you know, like a pencil skirt or something.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I had heels. To this day, people think I'm taller than I am because I was always wearing heels.
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Speaker 3: You always ran those heels.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so she blasts through the door and she's, you know, got some news. Got some news. old boyfriend, Greg, the person that she's been complaining about for the last three shows. And we've sort of seen some of the pathology in her and the trauma that he left her. And just left with his, what, his old stinky, raggedy duffel bag. Right. Is back.
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Speaker 3: And we all know that that's a big deal.
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Speaker 2: Like, uh-oh.
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Speaker 3: So there's a, you know, Khadijah coming in like, uh-uh, no. Uh-uh, we're not having it. And I'm like, let me just see if that's the right guy. You mean raggedy old. And so I repeat exactly what you've been saying. That, Greg, you're like, I might have talked about it once or twice.
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Speaker 4: Exactly.
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Speaker 2: Yes, you did.
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Speaker 1: And, you know, so the setup is important and we get it done.
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Speaker 3: Here's what's beautiful about that. If someone starts with that episode. They now know that there's a history, that she's been talking about this forever. They don't have to have watched all the episodes leading up to it. That's the power of great writing.
00:11:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. And they've got to do, it's an ensemble piece. So you've got to float these stories between many different characters and also continue to sort of, you know, like a person who's juggling, juggle the things that are going on. So that's where the Overton B story comes in.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 3: Let's watch another clip.
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Speaker 2: I'm calling Greg.
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Speaker 1: Go ahead and call him with your weak self.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm fine, you're fine.
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Speaker 2: What do you want?
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Speaker 3: Dinner tomorrow?
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Speaker 1: Well, since you're only gonna be in town one day, I guess we could work something out.
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Speaker 2: You are so weak.
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Speaker 1: Someone special?
00:11:40
Speaker 2: Sure.
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Speaker 3: Your fiancée.
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Speaker 1: Click, hang up, dial Tony.
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Speaker 3: We care so much about you. We're telling you, cut him off, cut him off, cut him off.
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Speaker 2: You know what?
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Speaker 1: That right there is an example of trauma. So you see Max. She calls him up. She's being all tough about it. But the minute he mentions that he wants to be in town and he wants to see her, she- It's a softening. Yeah, but they're like, no, don't do it. Say no thanks and then go on. But then he drops another with a fiancee. And that's when she should say, I'm good. But again, the trauma's pulling her in. Right. And though Khadija's like, no, no, end it here. Right. She can't end it because it didn't end. She's going to have to go through with it.
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Speaker 3: He ended it for her, right? Because then he broke up with her and just sort of left.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, like a hanging Chad. Right. People in the 90s know what that's about, you know? Google it.
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Speaker 3: A hanging Chad.
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Speaker 1: It's 2000s.
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Speaker 2: Right, right.
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Speaker 1: Okay. So she wants to, you know.
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Speaker 3: But I love that she's not, you know, I want to see how he chose someone over me. It's just in that moment of like, fine, I look forward to seeing you.
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Speaker 2: Fine.
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Speaker 3: I think I did disagree to that.
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Speaker 1: A lot of chicks do that. People want closure. But also if somebody left you and, you know, you were really into them, they were into you, and you never got an explanation, she's got to go through with it. That's like, you know, Frodo and the Lord of the Rings. You've got to pass through Mordor.
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Speaker 2: Okay.
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Speaker 1: And throw the ring into the fire. She going to throw that ring down that hole.
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Speaker 3: Throw down the gauntlet.
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Speaker 2: Exactly.
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Speaker 3: What's next?
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Speaker 1: Well, it's the beginning of the tradition of our table, our eating. You know what I mean? Where we have dinner, we have the characters having dinner, and the fun of all that.
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Speaker 3: The fun and the family of all that, because we're seeing now that they're really a family too, and how we're going to support you through this ring of fire.
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Speaker 1: Right. And you're also gossipy and busy and nosy, so you want to be there to support But you also want to be there to, you know, witness history. Family. We sound like witches.
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Speaker 2: Oh, beignets. Oh, beignets.
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Speaker 4: I strongly suggest you get one of your boy toys over here.
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Speaker 2: And have him pretend that.
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Speaker 1: He's your study. I'm not going to lie like that for Greg.
00:14:02
Speaker 3: So I wanted to say something about the beignets. And there's something else I just remembered that was happening at the same time. So, you know, we see Overton as, you know, just sort of a salt of the earth, you know, easy, you know, simple Midwestern guy. And I remember that what was part of that script, you know, the beignets were there. So when Overton came into the room, he said, oh, beignets. And it was like, wow, what does he know about a beignet? And it's like, it gave you a little sense of there's more sophistication, there's more elegance. worldliness there than we think. And that was a little thing that was added there that was really beautiful. So to this day, when I have a beignet, I think of y'all going, ooh, beignets.
00:14:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, Max is, you know, now she's in it. She's got the dinner set up. You know, this is where we find that Regine is a really good cook. And that's the one thing that, you know, chopping and doing, got an apron and all that. She's in the kitchen and she's, you know, nervous, but She decided she doesn't need cover. She's just going to present herself as she is. She's got the cover. Not the cover, but the reality of having a law degree.
00:15:09
Speaker 2: She looks great.
00:15:10
Speaker 1: She got good friends. She don't need anything else. That's right. But it's Regine, the troublemaker, who's like, yeah, but you also look, you know. Alone. Alone.
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Speaker 3: So embellish a little bit.
00:15:21
Speaker 1: Now, how many women have felt that? That they have to, if they meet somebody, got to have somebody next to them as opposed to meet them, you know, all free and happy. You know, no underwear, no bra. You know what I'm saying?
00:15:32
Speaker 3: She's telling you that you will be better set up for success if you also have one of your boy toys show up and pretend to be something that's really not even happening.
00:15:40
Speaker 1: And that gets Max's mind going thinking, maybe I do need some more than just me. Trouble, trouble, trouble's around.
00:15:47
Speaker 3: Come on here. Here comes the trouble right now.
00:15:50
Speaker 4: Kyle.
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Speaker 2: Oh, pardon me.
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Speaker 1: Honey.
00:16:00
Speaker 4: So wait, let me get this straight.
00:16:02
Speaker 3: You want me to be your man.
00:16:06
Speaker 2: That's what I heard.
00:16:09
Speaker 1: Well, we got to start with the fact that she's at the table. She's enduring this, but she's feeling less and less. And then ding dong.
00:16:17
Speaker 3: I'll go get it. She's looking for, that's actually like a, like a release for you. Like you don't know who's coming to the door. I have no idea.
00:16:23
Speaker 1: Just trying to get out of tight spot. And then there's, T.C. Carson is Kyle. Kyle! Kyle has no idea what's going on. And as she's pulling him forward across her, we can see.
00:16:36
Speaker 3: The whole story in his eyes.
00:16:38
Speaker 1: Formulates.
00:16:38
Speaker 3: And I love this sort of sideways walk that y'all are doing into the kitchen. And he's, I don't remember him saying hello to everybody, you know, good evening. He's going to still be pleasant, like, good evening, everybody, good evening. Oh, my God, what's about to happen?
00:16:51
Speaker 1: Well, you know, she's formulated the idea.
00:16:53
Speaker 2: Right.
00:16:53
Speaker 1: And this is her opportunity.
00:16:56
Speaker 2: And.
00:16:56
Speaker 1: The greatest note before they go in or after they go in the kitchen is that the great Kim Fields asks Kalita, where did she go to school? And Kalita says, oh, just Eastland.
00:17:08
Speaker 2: Where did you go to school?
00:17:09
Speaker 4: Oh, I went to a small private school called Eastland.
00:17:12
Speaker 1: Hmm, never heard of it.
00:17:15
Speaker 3: If you notice, feels, look to the camera is so quick.
00:17:18
Speaker 2: It's great.
00:17:18
Speaker 1: She goes, never heard of it.
00:17:20
Speaker 3: Never heard of it.
00:17:21
Speaker 1: And then looks at the camera. Pitch perfect.
00:17:23
Speaker 3: Pitch perfect.
00:17:24
Speaker 1: Pitch perfect. She breaks the fourth wall.
00:17:26
Speaker 2: Come on.
00:17:26
Speaker 1: Because we know that Eastland is a shout out to Facts of Life. That's where they went to. So, you know, again.
00:17:30
Speaker 3: So that means the audience is like, oh, yay, that was for us.
00:17:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. And for people who knew, they knew. And people who didn't, you kept it moving. They're in the kitchen. And that's when we don't, we just cut to the chase. So you want me to be your man. And they agreed to it.
00:17:46
Speaker 3: And I love that sweet moment. So we know that you all have been teasing each other already, you know, for episode and episode and episode. We see this relationship beginning. But there's a softening that he has for you. Like, you know I'm your friend. Of course I'll help you. And then, of course, then it goes right back. I'm going to enjoy being your man.
00:18:02
Speaker 4: Pow!
00:18:02
Speaker 1: And it smacks me on the ass. You know.
00:18:05
Speaker 4: I love it.
00:18:06
Speaker 2: I love it.
00:18:06
Speaker 3: I'm going to take advantage of this moment because I'm actually attracted to you anyway.
00:18:10
Speaker 2: So, oh well.
00:18:11
Speaker 1: But we don't know he's attracted. They're still sniping at each other. There's nothing like that at all.
00:18:15
Speaker 3: I didn't think about that.
00:18:16
Speaker 2: Not at all.
00:18:17
Speaker 1: He's going to enjoy being her man so he can ruin her life in this moment and make her feel queasy.
00:18:23
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:18:23
Speaker 3: I'm thinking for that moment he enjoyed doing it because he's always wanted to. That's what I've interpreted.
00:18:27
Speaker 1: Look, I don't think so. I think he's sort of saying, this is what your man does.
00:18:30
Speaker 4: Pow.
00:18:31
Speaker 1: Pop you on your ass. And you have to take it. I've got to take it because I need him.
00:18:36
Speaker 3: To be your man.
00:18:37
Speaker 2: Exactly.
00:18:37
Speaker 1: So she's got to endure something. Be careful what you wish for.
00:18:40
Speaker 2: Right.
00:18:40
Speaker 3: I love that in the moment of you grabbing him and taking him to have a private conversation, he observes the entire scene.
00:18:48
Speaker 1: He takes it all in.
00:18:49
Speaker 3: He sees your old boyfriend, his fine fiance. So he was able to take that because, you know, he's a ladies man anyway. So he took it out. He knew what was going on. And you, a spinster.
00:18:59
Speaker 1: A spinster. And he says it in that English accent. A spinster. Now, a spinster, you know, I have to say, when I used to watch episodes of Little House on the Prairie, there was always a spinster.
00:19:10
Speaker 3: Of course, there was always a spinster.
00:19:11
Speaker 1: There was a little widow lady, a person at the grocery store, and a spinster. And a spinster meant you were either the school mom that had sort of dedicated themselves to education or somebody who was just maybe homely, who could not get a date.
00:19:25
Speaker 3: Could not get a date at all.
00:19:26
Speaker 1: Who was way past, you know, being fresh in the markets. And the worst thing you could be back in the day was a spinster.
00:19:32
Speaker 3: Because as women, we relied on men to take care of us.
00:19:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how.
00:19:37
Speaker 3: And so if you couldn't get married, if nobody would marry you, if nobody would be with you, then you were a spinster. And it was the worst thing in the world. However, nowadays, I have had several aunties who have spun that whole spinster thing into a whole other... Their lives were fabulous because they didn't get married, because they didn't have children, because they didn't.
00:19:55
Speaker 1: Oh, come on. It's a whole thing.
00:19:57
Speaker 2: It's a whole thing.
00:19:58
Speaker 1: Yvette and the writers used Susan, the character, to show that there was an imbalance and that there was people who were for the career, like those women, and there were people who maybe lean more on the traditional sort of path. For Max, she was young, so she wasn't either.
00:20:17
Speaker 3: She couldn't be a spinster yet.
00:20:18
Speaker 1: It was clear that she was a career woman. Indeed, indeed.
00:20:23
Speaker 3: I want to know, do you think that Max thinks of herself as a spinster? No.
00:20:28
Speaker 1: I mean, if anything that we have in common, straight off the bat, that we are pro-feminist ideology.
00:20:35
Speaker 3: I don't.
00:20:38
Speaker 1: Happen to have the initials of my name are Erica Rose Alexander, ERA, the Equal Rights Amendment. I really thought growing up that that amendment was for me.
00:20:46
Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
00:20:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, not even kidding you. And I thought that was so unfair that I was a woman. I really didn't like being a girl. Really? No, I had two older brothers. We were in Arizona. You're up in the mountains. It's very traditional. You've got your German Lutherans and all that very traditional sort of setups with the Mestizo, the Mexican, and the Hopi Navajo. These are all very traditional setups. And the woman had a place in that that I didn't feel had any part of what I thought I was on the world to do.
00:21:13
Speaker 3: And that was just within you. That wasn't something that your mother placed in you or something you saw. Just born like, ah, being a woman in this society is going to feel restrictive because of what I'm being told.
00:21:24
Speaker 1: If I could have pulled off my puss in my breasts, I would have.
00:21:30
Speaker 3: Really?
00:21:30
Speaker 1: Because dudes got to do everything. I mean, we used to go on little trips and they got to go horseback riding. And they gave us horseshoes. You know, what's that? I don't want to put on horseshoes.
00:21:41
Speaker 3: It was super, super traditional.
00:21:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to go on the adventure. And I didn't like that. And my father was kind of like that. This is a true story. He would buy us food. And, you know, we didn't have much. We were always eating like bologna sandwiches and whatnot and, you know, luncheon sandwiches. He would get the ham. The boys would get the salami. And we'd get the bologna. Girls got baloney. Put that on a t-shirt.
00:22:05
Speaker 3: The girls get baloney.
00:22:07
Speaker 1: Even our candy bars. The boys got Butterfingers and we got Baby Ruths.
00:22:12
Speaker 3: Well, I like a Baby Ruth. I didn't.
00:22:14
Speaker 2: I want the Butterfinger.
00:22:15
Speaker 1: I mean, why are you choosing that on my behalf? Because we were girls.
00:22:20
Speaker 3: Let me ask you this. When was the first moment that you realized that you could break through all that? Like, how old were you when you were like... wait a minute, just because these roles have been given to me by this time and this space and where I was that I don't have.
00:22:34
Speaker 1: To do that? I didn't realize it. It's just that I started to become very much and affect myself like a boy. I ran with the boys. If you look at my body now, I've got scars all over the place. I ran as hard as they did. I played with them. And my mother at some point, because I just spent all the time with my brother. I said, you know, you just, if you're like, it's like being a cat in a room full of dogs and you say, I'm just going to act like the dogs. And then they won't know I'm a cat. But at a certain point, my mother pulled me aside and said, Erica, you're going to, because I would always have my shirt off. You're starting to bud and you're going to have to wear a t-shirt. Bud?
00:23:11
Speaker 2: I thought I would pass out.
00:23:13
Speaker 1: I'm like, who is she talking to? I was So mad. You could ask my sister, Carolyn. I just was crying saying, I hate being a girl. I hate it.
00:23:22
Speaker 3: Do you like being a girl now?
00:23:23
Speaker 1: I love it.
00:23:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know you do.
00:23:25
Speaker 1: My puss is still intact. I have great breasts. They sit up. Boom. But it's been something to wrestle with. It wasn't that I didn't appreciate it. I just didn't like how it held me back.
00:23:37
Speaker 3: And does it hold you back now?
00:23:38
Speaker 1: It does. You know, what can I do with a penis? Are you kidding? And don't lighten my skin.
00:23:44
Speaker 3: But look at what you've done with your vagina. Look at what you've done with your vagina.
00:23:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have done many things with my vagina. But, you know, this vagina is worn out. It would like a little, you know, support. You know what I'm saying? We have very different views. I can't wait to hear this.
00:24:01
Speaker 3: It's hysterical.
00:24:02
Speaker 1: But it's the truth. Everybody knows that. You should be a woman and appreciate it, but also tell the truth, right?
00:24:08
Speaker 2: Right, right.
00:24:08
Speaker 3: I'm going to ask you this, though. So you have been given.
00:24:11
Speaker 1: This body, this package.
00:24:14
Speaker 3: Look at how much you have done with being a woman. And what you have overcome, or you say there's still some roads to hoe, and I'm not calling you a hoe.
00:24:25
Speaker 2: Thanks.
00:24:26
Speaker 3: But look at what you have done with what you have. That's true. How do you feel about that?
00:24:30
Speaker 1: I thank you for that. I think it's a great compliment. But, you know, you can also say and observe that black people have done a lot, despite how they're perceived in the world, if you're in America, and say, look what you've done, what you have. And they're saying, yeah, but do you know what I could do if I didn't have this obstacle? And yet, would I still be that same person?
00:24:49
Speaker 2: I don't know.
00:24:51
Speaker 1: Would we have sang the blues and rock and roll and punk rock? That's what I'm saying. And ragtime and all the things that came out of us. We are people that have created ourselves out of whole cloth. And so women have done that too. They really have. It's just the observation of feeling that despite that, you still not, you have an anchor to a tanker. I'm like, you know, let me run. Let me work. You say, let me work.
00:25:17
Speaker 3: Let me work.
00:25:18
Speaker 1: Let me cook. Let me cook. But that's not what we on earth to do.
00:25:20
Speaker 2: Right.
00:25:21
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, here I am.
00:25:23
Speaker 3: You cook pretty good from my perspective.
00:25:24
Speaker 1: Thank you. My pussy thanks you. We've been talking about this episode and, you know, the dynamic between Max and Kyle and that kind of thing. Kim, I think we should call one of the writers who created this dynamic.
00:25:42
Speaker 3: We have one of the writers who created this dynamic right here, right now. Please welcome to the stage the great Rob Horn.
00:25:49
Speaker 1: Yes. Let me tell you about Rob Horn real quick because, you know, just so you know, he is in London right now doing his thing. He is an American playwright. He's a screenwriter and producer. He's best known on the stage for his Tony Award winning book for the Broadway musical Tootsie. So if y'all saw Tootsie, you saw Rob's work. You probably saw Shuck. I saw Shucked. He's done so much, Hercules, all of these things. He's an amazing writer and he's had a phenomenal career. Got the Drama Desk Award for Outstanding Book Musical, Outer Critics Circle Award for Outstanding Book of Musical, New York Drama Critics Circle Award for Best Musical. He's a killer. And he's got that Tony in 2019. And he made that amazing speech, which was so beautiful because you talked about your mother and your talking about your husband and everything. But inside of it, it was just funny. And it just showed how quick your mind is. So thank you for joining us, Rob. We love you.
00:26:38
Speaker 2: How are you?
00:26:39
Speaker 1: Rob does funny.
00:26:40
Speaker 2: It has been so long. You look exactly the same.
00:26:44
Speaker 1: Well, thank you. You're looking good. You know, right now we've been talking in this reliving single unofficial official podcast. about the episodes. And so we're going in order. We've been talking about episode four, which you and Danny Margosis are credited for. What was your approach to the Max and Kyle dynamic to set all this up?
00:27:07
Speaker 2: The thing is, it was early in the first season and we wanted to start to set up where that relationship might go and how that might go and the internal conflict of the characters. And that it was more dimensional than just a rivalry between the two of them or just a conflict between them, but that there actually was an attraction that they were fighting. And so once you could set that up early in the season, you really had the opportunity to play with that. And this is all from the incredible mind of Yvette Bowser. So we just wrote the words. It was all from her. Yeah. But also, one of the wonderful things about it was you got to see how alike they actually were as characters and how they were fighting their similarities. And that that's where their attraction came from, was the fact that they were so much alike, they couldn't stand looking at themselves that deeply.
00:28:05
Speaker 3: Now, was that baked in already or did you develop that? You and Danny and Yvette and the rest of the writers, you know, just develop that. You know, it becomes sort of an unveiling for you. And then we as actors get the script and then we go and play. But how does that get unveiled or unearthed for you?
00:28:21
Speaker 2: It was a number of things. The chemistry between the two actors was undeniable. And there was so much comedy to be mined from that. That so so Yvette would sit down and say, what do you what do you all want to write? What characters do you want to write or what? And so Danny and I said, we really want to write something for for Max and Kyle. And so we brainstormed that idea at the table with all the writers and she let us write it. It was very in our wheelhouse, that kind of conflict comedy, that sort of banter.
00:28:58
Speaker 3: The two of you, I think, were some of the best at that because that was also baked into your relationship. Like you knew how to play and the acerbic and the sarcasm and the And the play, it was just, it was perfect.
00:29:11
Speaker 2: And I think because we, before this, before Living Single, we're writing Designing Women, we really started to learn how to sort of elevate that kind of comedy and sort of make it what we do.
00:29:25
Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned Designing Women because that means you were writing for women and very women who had strong personalities. And how did you as a writer over the years learn to do that? I mean, you're male and you're you know, obviously are in the world.
00:29:38
Speaker 2: That's questionable. That's your gift. Well, you know, I say, thank you. I was raised in a household of all women. So I didn't have a dad. And I was raised by my mom and my grandmother and my twin sister. And so I sort of, and I think maybe because I was gay at a time when there was a, you know, when it wasn't as accepted as it is now. And so you learn to understand what it's like to feel like a minority in some ways. And being raised by all women, I sort of got an insight and an understanding of the prism for how women view the world. much more so. And I was sensitive to that and I just sort of related to it. Wow.
00:30:26
Speaker 1: I mean, because things are changing.
00:30:27
Speaker 2: Because one of the great things about living single and also about the dynamic between those two characters is that it was never mean. It was sarcastic and it was funny and it was biting, but it was never mean. None of the comedy in that show was ever mean. And I think that's what made it so relatable. Wow.
00:30:48
Speaker 1: You know, people want to always try to figure out what's the recipe. And that's hard to do because sometimes the easiest place to go with comedy is to be mean. But it's more of a gift and talent to sort of figure out how can you do these things and still have a layer of integrity that doesn't cross over to meanness.
00:31:06
Speaker 2: And the thing about those two characters is that they were so smart. So they knew how to press each other's buttons in a very specific way, which really helped with the dynamic. And I think the audience really wanted them to get together. The audience wanted them. You saw that coming. The fun was going to be how and if it was going to happen.
00:31:30
Speaker 3: Now that I'm hearing your love of the characters, your love of women, and your love of finding that balance between being acerbic and sarcastic, how do you as a writer feel when you hear your words displayed on stage? How does that feel to you? Do we do it right? Do we do it wrong?
00:31:50
Speaker 2: Are you there with us?
00:31:51
Speaker 1: What do you feel? Are you hoping for different takes?
00:31:53
Speaker 2: Well, I've been very lucky that I've gotten to work with... with a cast like Living Single and the six actors on this show, the, you know, principal actors were spectacular. You all wore a, it was like watching the Carol Burnett show because it was just like you were, and you were truly an ensemble. Everybody elevated everybody. Yvette created such specific characters that it was kind of easy to write for. I love, I love, my reason for being on this planet is to make people laugh that I, nothing gives me more joy than bringing laughter. And so to, to see your work presented to an audience and in live theater, one of the things I love about live theater is you hear that laughter instantaneously, but the thing, great. And we had a live audience on living single and they just, they would go nuts. They would go nuts for you all. It was crazy. And, and, Often when you do live studio audiences like that, people would want to leave early because you do take after take. Our audience stayed. Yes. They were committed. They wanted to. And that speaks of your talents. Oh, thank you. Lovely.
00:33:09
Speaker 1: Thank you. That's a beautiful thing. I mean, we want to talk a little bit about Max's truth bomb. Inside of the show, she drops it in front of everybody and Greg. This is crazy.
00:33:25
Speaker 4: Greg, Kyle is not my boyfriend. I'm not a partner at my firm. I've never been anywhere near Paris, but none of this is reason enough for my friends to sit here trying to make my life seem better than it is by lying to you.
00:33:36
Speaker 2: There you go. You were so good. So good.
00:33:41
Speaker 3: Thanks, love.
00:33:42
Speaker 1: I mean, I was just doing as I was told through the written word.
00:33:46
Speaker 2: Well, you know, the thing about it was we really wanted to set up the integrity that Max had as a character, as a lawyer and as a character. And she couldn't, she just couldn't lie. She couldn't pretend to be something she wasn't. You know, I remember we talked about Does the reveal come because she just couldn't handle Kyle anymore? But it wasn't that. It had nothing to do with that. It was that she just... Her integrity couldn't handle lying. Yeah, but also one of the things that I love about it is how her friends rallied around her and were willing to play that game and lie for her and make all this stuff up for her. And she just... couldn't be responsible for that. I mean, it's a beautiful thing. It showed so early in this series how connected these women were and that they were family.
00:34:41
Speaker 3: I love the depth of this. So someone watching this show feels it and sees it and feels the relatability and they resonate. But to hear this deep work that goes into developing these characters, putting them in places so that they have another place to go is really rich. And I hope that the audience is loving this other level to it. It's not just words on a page and a bunch of actors read the words like this is thought out. I think the best shows are well thought out. Like I didn't even think about the integrity piece.
00:35:14
Speaker 2: That's incredible. That was a big part of it. And you know, I gotta, I gotta say that I've, I've been doing this thing for 35 years now. And I think, and without a doubt, Living Single was one of my favorite experiences and, and, and, adventures in this business because of you all. The cast just loved each other so much. We had so much fun. It was just, you would write for these incredible women and they would bring this stuff to life in a way that was better than anything you could write. It was a wonderful time in my life and it taught me how to do what I do now. Yvette Bowser taught me how to do what I do now.
00:35:55
Speaker 3: I've heard that there's a legend of her being able to run a writer's room so that the writers felt supported and felt ready for the whole season. Can you talk a little bit about the power of the writer's room and the power of having an executive producer who has the vision so clear that all you have to do is step in and do the work?
00:36:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly, she was the first woman to have her own show on network television.
00:36:25
Speaker 1: Black woman, yes.
00:36:27
Speaker 2: Black woman, yes. And she also, this was one of the shows that put Fox Network on the map. And there had never been a show like this. Four women who were strong, supported each other, loved each other, were funny, were independent. That had not been done with women of color before. And so this show was groundbreaking. And in the same way, Yvette running a room was groundbreaking because she wanted everybody to She really took young writers like us and brought us under her wing and taught us and said, I'm going to teach you how to run a show. I'm going to teach you how to work.
00:37:10
Speaker 1: In a room.
00:37:11
Speaker 2: I'm going to teach you all this. She was never threatened by anybody else's talent. She supported them. She wanted you to be great. So the writer's room were as much fun as the set was because you could say anything and do anything and you would never have to worry about being judged or being wrong. Everything was met with love in that room. It was a great training ground. And so many writers from that show went off to become incredibly successful because of because of Yvette Bowser. And of course she still is a legend and has just been winning awards and writing incredible stuff. But I love that woman. So much of my career is owed to her and what she gave me as a writer and as a person.
00:37:58
Speaker 1: Oh, gosh. I got goosebumps, right girl?
00:38:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too.
00:38:01
Speaker 1: I mean, it's true.
00:38:02
Speaker 2: And I know you all felt the same.
00:38:04
Speaker 1: Sure, sure. When you're on set in a warehouse, we have an experience sometime with the writers and the producers and the executives in studio being all the same. We don't get, or I'll say to speak for myself, this sort of conversation that you're giving to give us insight on how these things go. Because by the time y'all come in, it's like you're watching... what we've done in rehearsal, and then you're coming back with new scripts all the time, and there's this sort of flurry of activity.
00:38:33
Speaker 2: There's no time for those conversations. I mean, it is a mosh pit. It is crazy. You have, what, four or five days to do a new play every week.
00:38:42
Speaker 1: It's a new play each week. I think it's one of the most brutal schedules you can have, even though it has some kind of hiatuses because you have three-day weekends and then every fourth week off. But you kind of need that because otherwise you just go a little mad.
00:38:56
Speaker 3: But the writers don't take a hiatus. You all are still in there working, right? So the actors are offstage, but you all are still in there doing it. So this is a beautiful perspective to hear because, again, we do sometimes... I used to think of the writers over there, the studio over there, the network over there, and we come together a couple of times a week to... together, but there's no time for those conversations. That's powerful.
00:39:18
Speaker 2: There really isn't. And the showrunner, Yvette, is dealing with the network and the studio and the writers. She's the middle person for all of it because they give their notes to her and she then has to siphon those notes down to us in a way that we understand what we have to go in the room with her and then do. At the same time, we're dealing with next week's episode while she's editing last week's episode while we're arcing out. It's all happening at one time.
00:39:46
Speaker 1: And it's live. Because we have two live audiences on Thursdays. So by Monday, we're reading. By Thursday, we're live. It's ridiculously complicated.
00:39:56
Speaker 2: But you all were so good at it. And the longer we went on, the more you all really got into the depth of those characters. Yeah.
00:40:05
Speaker 1: Thank you. Speaking of which, so Max is revealed in the scene. She says enough. And then Greg and Max have the conversation in the kitchen where they finally have the closure that she's wanted all this time.
00:40:20
Speaker 2: Well, I'm about to take a pretty major step in my life and I just want you to.
00:40:25
Speaker 1: Give you my blessing?
00:40:26
Speaker 2: Well, I ain't the Pope. I'm not really here for your approval. I just wanted you to know that I've missed you. And I realized that when I left, the way I left, not only was I losing a lover, I lost my best friend. That is such crap.
00:40:47
Speaker 3: But I realize what's been bothering me all this time.
00:40:50
Speaker 4: Wasn't that you just packed your raggedy duffel bag and left? It was that you didn't even bother to take the time to say goodbye.
00:40:58
Speaker 2: I didn't know how. Let me show you.
00:41:06
Speaker 1: So knowing that that final closure is coming, because, you know, in episode one, we have Max set up that she says, you know, he left me with a raggedy duffel bag. It's sort of something that becomes like a.
00:41:19
Speaker 3: Slowly I turn step by step.
00:41:21
Speaker 1: And then finally, here it is.
00:41:23
Speaker 2: Well, you know, at the beginning of the episode, she's convinced she doesn't care, that she's going to be fine. And what happens is, and he comes with this woman and she's not fine. But I don't think she's, if I remember correctly, it has nothing to do with the other woman. It has to do with her lack of closure with him that she never got. Because Max is a kind of character that she's very cut and dry. She's very sort of there's not a lot of gray with Max. And that relationship, she was not she was not she thought she was fine because she always thinks she's fine. But she wasn't done. And having him there showed her she had to finish this. She had to complete this.
00:42:05
Speaker 1: That's awesome. And y'all, that was a beautiful thing because suddenly the comedy becomes very grounded with a drama sense. And I got to, as an actress, drop into my drama training or just notes and you could feel the audience listening. And it becomes very, I don't know, I get teary when I think about it because she's vulnerable.
00:42:31
Speaker 2: She's very vulnerable. And one of the things that events would tell us all the time, which is true, which is any great comedy is grounded in truth. And it is grounded in some kind of relatability and dramatic situation. Comedy is drama through the prism of humor.
00:42:48
Speaker 1: Come on.
00:42:48
Speaker 2: And so what was great about Living Single is we did this a lot, which is you'd be laughing, laughing, laughing. And then suddenly you'd have a moment of pathos or a moment of truth. And it made the comedy even funner or even more fun because we didn't have to make that funny. All we had to make that was truthful. Woo! Masterclass.
00:43:09
Speaker 3: That's a masterclass right there.
00:43:10
Speaker 1: That's a masterclass right there. I hope y'all getting, you know, that was the conversation we wanted to have on the Reliving podcast because we knew that people see this thing, but they don't see this huge sort of village that comes together and how many people who have, you know, you studied your whole life, meaning you were born with the DNA of comedy, but you also bring it to bear in this inside of a partnership that is collaborative in a writer's room.
00:43:34
Speaker 2: Yeah. And Danny and I had a partnership for years. We were together for 15 years as a partnership. And we were so different. We brought very different things to that partnership. And Yvette put together a room. Everybody was good at something different in that writer's room. She was very smart about that. Everybody that she hired was great at either a certain character or a certain dynamic or a certain talent so that together it was cohesive.
00:44:05
Speaker 3: I'll tell you the truth. I'm going to give you flowers, Rob, just a moment here. I can tell you. I'm going to speak for myself, but I bet you I speak for most of us. When we would see you and Danny's name on a script, we'd be like, oh, this is going to be good. I'm not saying it wasn't the case for the other people, but we knew what we were fitting to get because of the magic that you all so uniquely brought. And it would be like, oh, good.
00:44:28
Speaker 1: Buckle up.
00:44:29
Speaker 3: It's about to be good.
00:44:31
Speaker 2: We loved writing. We loved you all.
00:44:33
Speaker 3: We loved writing for you.
00:44:37
Speaker 2: We used to get in trouble because we would sneak down to the set to try to hang out with you all the time.
00:44:41
Speaker 3: We did have a good time.
00:44:42
Speaker 1: That was something else.
00:44:44
Speaker 3: We know how much you got and wrote and understood the Max and Kyle characters and their trajectory. We have to know. What do you think they would be like today?
00:44:58
Speaker 2: Here's the thing that I love about them. I think... they would never have broken up. I think they would just still be fighting and bantering and not holding anything in, which is what would keep them together. And so I think they'd still be together and still be that couple that everybody just, that were fun and funny and angry and fighting and all that and had incredible sex because they held nothing in. They told the truth to each other. If they were new characters, that's an interesting thing because the world has changed a lot since we did this show. But I don't know how much they would have changed. I think Max would still be fighting for the same things she fought for, social justice and equality and right. And I think Kyle probably would have got off and had a career in show business and become a singer, which is really, I think, what he always really wanted to do, right? And I think they would still support each other. I think Max... Max would say, initially think I've got to hire a partner in a law firm, marry a partner in a law firm. And then she'd have a whole list of what she thought she wanted. And then she'd fall in love with him anyway, because... It was because it was Kyle. Meant to be.
00:46:22
Speaker 3: Meant to be.
00:46:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, meant to be. They were meant to be. Sort of like Overton and you.
00:46:26
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:46:27
Speaker 2: You know, those two characters were just meant to be together. Indeed.
00:46:31
Speaker 3: Indeed.
00:46:32
Speaker 1: Just like the chemistry, we talked a lot about how the show had something that was in it that you can't even plan for. You do your best. But the chemistry, not just between the characters, between the cast and the crew, was phenomenal.
00:46:46
Speaker 2: To this day... I still walk around all the time going, Flavor. Flavor. All the time. Flavor.
00:46:56
Speaker 3: Is that- Flavor magazine?
00:46:58
Speaker 1: That was when- Yeah, Flavor magazine.
00:47:00
Speaker 3: Oh, that was when Louise Jefferson- Louise Jefferson.
00:47:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:47:03
Speaker 3: Came on the show.
00:47:04
Speaker 2: Flavor. Flavor. Flavor. That, and I always go, and you'll remember this one. beignets. Oh, yes.
00:47:11
Speaker 3: We talked about that.
00:47:13
Speaker 2: Ooh, beignets. Ooh, beignets. That was mine. You know what it is? I remember that.
00:47:20
Speaker 3: Nobody expects that Overton would know what a beignet is because he's such a salt of the earth kind of guy.
00:47:26
Speaker 2: But I loved that. He was a renaissance guy. Yes.
00:47:30
Speaker 1: I love that.
00:47:30
Speaker 3: You got that.
00:47:31
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
00:47:33
Speaker 2: I loved that. He was a blue-collar renaissance guy.
00:47:36
Speaker 3: Blue-collar renaissance.
00:47:37
Speaker 2: Which I loved.
00:47:38
Speaker 1: To write mainstream characters and also build them out so they're sophisticated too.
00:47:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for that.
00:47:45
Speaker 2: He was a philosopher in many ways. He was great. I love that.
00:47:49
Speaker 1: I love that.
00:47:50
Speaker 3: I love you, Rob. Oh, we got to get together.
00:47:52
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. What are you doing in London right now though, right now?
00:47:55
Speaker 2: Right now, I'm opening two shows. One is a show I had on Broadway called Shocked. which we're opening at the Regent Park Open Air Theater. And then I'm opening Disney's next big musical, Hercules, which is opening at the Royal Jury Lane.
00:48:09
Speaker 3: Come on.
00:48:11
Speaker 2: All within a month of each other. Bravo.
00:48:13
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you this.
00:48:14
Speaker 3: Was this your dream? Was your dream Broadway, ultimately?
00:48:17
Speaker 2: No, it was. I love television. I started as a playwright, went to L.A., had this career in television that I never expected, which was a great training ground for me, but I always knew someday I'd end up going back to theater, but I still do both. As you know, television has changed a lot, especially post COVID. And so I'm very happy in New York writing my plays and musicals, but I still, you know, we still do pilots and TV stuff. Thank you.
00:48:47
Speaker 1: We will forever be fans and friends.
00:48:50
Speaker 2: And we so admire you.
00:48:52
Speaker 1: Thank you. Everything that you've done and your contribution to the history of television that doesn't always include the most marginalized communities is huge. And you are doing that all the time in your work, whether it's Tootsies and Shucked and all this other thing. So thank you for that.
00:49:09
Speaker 2: It's an honor to talk to you all. I love that living single. I mean, it's still as popular as it was. And it's crazy, isn't it? Okay, so Erica, you know this. Erica came to see one of my shows on Broadway. The cast went nuts. Bananas, right? Bananas, bananas. Generations are re-watching this show and relating to it. And there's a lot of power in that.
00:49:39
Speaker 1: Well, yes, indeed. And so thank you for putting your power play inside of it because that's what people need to see. It's human work.
00:49:46
Speaker 2: Every day, I thank Yvette for giving us the opportunity to be a part of this family.
00:49:51
Speaker 1: Thank you.
00:49:52
Speaker 3: Thank you, Robert.
00:49:54
Speaker 2: Flavor.
00:49:54
Speaker 3: Bye.
00:49:55
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Flavor. Bye, love. Bye.
00:49:59
Speaker 1: See you in London. Bye.
00:50:00
Speaker 3: Bye, darling.
00:50:01
Speaker 1: See you in London.
00:50:01
Speaker 2: Talk, darling. Talk. Talk, darling.
00:50:03
Speaker 1: See you in London, love.
00:50:04
Speaker 2: London needed one more queen.
00:50:08
Speaker 3: They got it. Ladies and gentlemen, the great Robert Horne.
00:50:12
Speaker 4: Thank you.
00:50:12
Speaker 2: Bye. Bye.
00:50:13
Speaker 3: That was great. Extraordinary, right? Extraordinary.
00:50:17
Speaker 2: I told you.
00:50:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, master class.
00:50:19
Speaker 1: You know what? Let me just say that there can't be enough flowers given to the people that in the dead of night take a blank paper and make something from nothing. All their work happens way before they meet that page. The living... The learning how to write well, learning how to write with someone else's voices, doing it in collaboration. That right there is a skill.
00:50:48
Speaker 3: And there's another piece in something you just said about the dead of night. You know, this is the work that most people don't get to see. It's not the glamorous side, unless you're winning the awards on Broadway and blah, blah, blah. But we know, you know, sometimes we would get rewrites and they don't come until two, three o'clock in the morning. And that's the team behind the scenes working. putting it on the page. And, you know, as actors, we often get the glory because the light is on us. But I love that you really wanted to bring him in and give him his shine and give him his, and all the writers.
00:51:17
Speaker 2: It was a teamwork.
00:51:18
Speaker 1: We're going to do that throughout because they have a larger story to tell.
00:51:22
Speaker 3: And I really hope that people are listening. There's so many nuggets that are applicable in your life and in your work as well.
00:51:29
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
00:51:29
Speaker 1: And it doesn't happen overnight.
00:51:31
Speaker 3: Does not.
00:51:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, suck it up and get the work done.
00:51:33
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:51:35
Speaker 3: This is The Reverb, our time to reflect on the episode's themes and how they still echo throughout the culture. Welcome back. Now, we're talking about how Living Single explored whether women with careers felt like they were enough on their own. So, you know, the 90s was a time that I think it was a really big time that we were really discussing whether or not women could have it all.
00:51:57
Speaker 1: Are we still saying that women have to choose and feel maybe more fulfilled? if they have all of that, I mean, that's the weird part. It's not either or now, they want you to do it all.
00:52:08
Speaker 2: Right.
00:52:09
Speaker 3: And having it all is some of the pressure and also some of the freedom that you now, my mother's generation, my mother married at 25 and 25 was old back in her day. You needed to be married and have your kids. And for her generation and from where she's from, it was have your education and your marriage and your kids, right?
00:52:29
Speaker 1: Well, you need to have a bank account. And there was a lot of people who didn't follow that. And then when the marriage fell apart, they didn't have anything and they didn't have the education.
00:52:35
Speaker 3: Which is happening to this day too.
00:52:36
Speaker 1: But you know what? I got to say something from being a woman of color and a black woman. We always were working.
00:52:41
Speaker 3: Of course we were.
00:52:42
Speaker 1: When we crossed, when they took us, from across the ocean and kidnapped us. We didn't come here to lay up. We were working. So even the women's movement, and you think about the suffragette movement, women wanted to get the right to work and not just in the home, but the right to work. But black women have been working for hundreds of years doing all of these things, just not in the office, not getting paid fairly, all that other stuff. So it wasn't about being a spinster. We were breeders.
00:53:08
Speaker 3: We were born to breed.
00:53:13
Speaker 1: And we were workers. So that in us, to work and have family, has always been a thing. So I think right now we're starting to see people who have the soft life. But that right there is a connection that black women weren't making and even felt like they deserved.
00:53:30
Speaker 3: And then there's the other piece of it, too, of working and working to.
00:53:36
Speaker 3: Raise up the ranks at the job, right? So that's like also part of the, and there's women who've had to make that decision. I'm going to, you know, put off getting married or put off having children because I want to, you know, rise up this ladder. And I guess now we have more choice than ever. And now there's ways to have babies a little bit later and you can decide if you want to get married or not. There's all kinds of rules that have been broken and meant to be broken.
00:54:01
Speaker 1: You have all these methods or you can just go to Walmart and steal one. From off the parking lot. That's where you get kids from.
00:54:07
Speaker 3: I'd like to strike that from the record, that that's not something that you should do.
00:54:10
Speaker 1: Shouldn't do, but it is possible.
00:54:12
Speaker 3: But it happens.
00:54:13
Speaker 1: Did you ever feel the pressure to be on a specific path? You know, career first, man first? No, I didn't.
00:54:19
Speaker 3: I'm lucky that, you know, listen, my mother didn't. My mother, who was very, grew up in a very traditional time, I know that she had a little bit of rebel spirit. On her and rebel in that, you know, she grew up in the South and it was expected to get married right away and get your education right away, get married right away, start having children right away. My parents got married at 25, which was late for that generation and didn't start having children until she was 32. So she was already, you know, doing something.
00:54:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. More progressive. Yeah.
00:54:48
Speaker 3: And really clear. I want to finish my education. Your father and I decided that we wanted to have enough money and have a home already. And so already... And so it was never instilled upon in me that you must do it this way. You must do it. It has to be this way. I want grandbabies by a certain time. And so I'm grateful the freedom was given.
00:55:08
Speaker 1: But we're also talking about women, again, women of color who have not had this sort of nuclear point of view of how to do something. There was no rules around.
00:55:17
Speaker 2: You had to work.
00:55:18
Speaker 1: And if you were working, especially after the civil rights legislation, you were trying to get into school because school meant that you could not only feed your family, but maybe even be promoted inside of a new world that didn't exist yet. So I think that your mother is coming from that sort of, you know, point of view. This is different because now women are now trying to even decide whether they want to be with men. There's this whole 4B movement in Korea where women are saying, we can get together, own a home. We can get sperm if we want to. We don't have to have the burden of going and dating and all that other stuff. But we can have a lifestyle, vacation, all these other things that heretofore wasn't in the cards unless you did it traditionally or at least got married.
00:56:06
Speaker 3: So I'm trying to put it in my brain. What does this have to do with this whole have it all? So you're saying these women are saying that we can have it all.
00:56:14
Speaker 1: That's having it all.
00:56:15
Speaker 3: But is it having it? It's having it all through the lens of what is having it all? Maybe that's the question. What does it mean to have it all? And I think it is subjective. I think it is, I think different, Ages and stages and different times in history decide what having it all is. So having it all, I think, used to be the traditional have a husband. I have 2.3 kids. We have a house. At one point, it was I get to stay at home and he gets to go out and work. Then it became I want to work and have myself fulfilled and have my gifts fulfilled. So I think the question is really what is having it all? And I think our show and this time that we were doing it, the 90s, was about exploring what having it all really meant. and getting to decide for yourself what that meant.
00:57:00
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, back in the day, if you didn't get married, you were a spinster. So Living Single gets to reclaim the whole spinster life to say, you know, that's not, spinster wasn't so bad. If you look at those movies, the spinster was the person who was either maybe the school teacher or the person who was so ugly that no one would marry her or problematic, no one would marry her. And if you, somebody said you were spinster, That was like the worst thing you could say about a woman.
00:57:24
Speaker 2: Oh, it was horrible.
00:57:24
Speaker 3: Like you were unlovable, unlikable.
00:57:26
Speaker 2: Nobody wanted you.
00:57:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody bought the cow, man. They didn't want your milk.
00:57:29
Speaker 3: You know?
00:57:30
Speaker 1: Worst thing.
00:57:31
Speaker 3: But now, today, we have this whole other fresh new rich auntie. Like, I don't want no husband. I don't want no kids. This energy of now I get to have my version of have it all. Like, you don't want me. I don't want you neither. Let me just do this. One of my favorite things. Makeup lines, it's a black-owned line called the Lip Bar, and they have a lipstick called Rich Auntie. And when I tell you it is gorgeous and purple, and so there is that you get to maybe now having it all as having the choice to have it all and getting to decide for yourself.
00:58:02
Speaker 2: What you want.
00:58:03
Speaker 1: Deciding what all is.
00:58:04
Speaker 3: Deciding what all is. And I will say that there are, in making those decisions, there are, are there sacrifices or are there something that you give up or is it something that you, you know, there are people who have waited to have their kids and go, I wish I had done it early. Some who missed the window altogether and like, I'm not going to do that. So you get to determine what that is for you.
00:58:25
Speaker 1: But we're still in the dark ages a bit.
00:58:27
Speaker 3: Why do you say that?
00:58:28
Speaker 1: Because we still don't even have control of our own bodies. The truth is having it all depends on making sure that there's a structure in place that's not creating obstacles for people who want to move forward, whether it is having children or not having children or being, you know, able to, you know, pursue your education and afford it. You know, many women who go into later things like being executives and CEOs and even politics, they had to wait till later because they were raising their kids. They were getting their education. And you say, well, why are they so old? I said, because men have much more freedom in that space. And this is a time, living single, that we were not only answering and asking that question, but that's an experience. inside of the psyche of women who, for the most part, were straddling the traditional sort of life that may be the expected thing and being these trailblazers. And there's a bridge there. And I think different worlds talked about in education, but living single is the working prototype for it.
00:59:32
Speaker 3: Maxine was demonstrating that you can have, I'm going to say have it all, but you get to choose powerfully for yourself. And that's jarring for folks, I guess, for some. I should say jarring in a bad, that's not the right word.
00:59:47
Speaker 2: It's new.
00:59:47
Speaker 3: It's refreshing. It is.
00:59:49
Speaker 2: It is.
00:59:50
Speaker 1: And it can also, you know, there's blowback. There's always blowback.
00:59:53
Speaker 3: Was there blowback?
00:59:54
Speaker 1: We're living in the blowback. This is the blowback right now. You know, if we're still talking about that you can't have body autonomy, and we had that coming in, we had that then. It wasn't even a question. That's what people had fought for. But here we are, and it is a question.
01:00:10
Speaker 3: Don't get me started on, you know, femininity and the divine feminine and how the patriarch has been. So, like, we're back to, we've got to batten down the hatches on the femininity, batten down the hatches on the sexuality, batten down the hatches. Like, it's something scary. But why is it scary is the magic question.
01:00:28
Speaker 1: Because that's why they wanted Max to be put across the street. Character's too strong. That was it already surfacing in the headwind saying that that's going to be challenged. And so for people who think progress comes and goes and, you know, you beat something and that's it, that's not true. As humans, we really make these sorts of decisions every time. People step up. We're talking about the same themes. And I love that we talked about it in comedy because that means that everybody can have, you know, a stake.
01:01:01
Speaker 3: And it's an open door. It's a softer landing.
01:01:04
Speaker 1: For people in comedy. Yeah, they don't even know. Yeah. You know, that's like what smuggling.
01:01:09
Speaker 3: We smuggling the message in the comedy.
01:01:12
Speaker 1: Yes, baby. You were looking at my nipples. But the whole time I was moving, moving and grooving, getting my degree. You know what I'm saying?
01:01:19
Speaker 2: Yeah.
01:01:20
Speaker 1: Wielding it like a sword of truth. But now we have the orcs coming out of Middle Earth.
01:01:27
Speaker 2: It's tough.
01:01:28
Speaker 3: Get ready, Frodo's. Isn't it interesting that you were across the street, but you were always there. You were always here. So this decision to create a remove, literal and figurative and physical remove, actually didn't work whatsoever.
01:01:43
Speaker 1: Oh, it backfired. Because every time she was there, boom, she made an entrance. And every time you make an entrance on stage.
01:01:50
Speaker 1: The audience pays attention.
01:01:58
Speaker 3: All right. We're getting to one of my favorite parts of the show where we hear from you, our listeners, our people, and we have a question.
01:02:03
Speaker 1: Our family, our fans, our friends.
01:02:05
Speaker 3: All of the above.
01:02:06
Speaker 1: Come on.
01:02:07
Speaker 3: All of the above. Amber, tell us what the question is, please. All right.
01:02:11
Speaker 1: So this question comes from Paula from Philly. Paula from Philly. Come on, Philly.
01:02:17
Speaker 2: Come on, Philly.
01:02:18
Speaker 1: Thank you. And she asked, Erica, what was it like to kiss Greg like that at the end of the episode? And how many takes did you do? The actor who played Greg is a beautiful man. Gorgeous, tall, nice, clean breath.
01:02:36
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Sams.
01:02:37
Speaker 1: That's right. It was delicious. I've also liked very much in this acting life the perks. And that's one of them. Every now and then you get to roll up on people that You didn't even have to work to get. And it was great. He was lovely. There's never anything inappropriate. We do it all for the show. The actual kiss is a real meeting of minds. No, I dug in. I dug in. I loved it. Am I a whore?
01:03:08
Speaker 2: You're an actor.
01:03:09
Speaker 1: I'm an actor. I'm consummate. I'm acting method. I wanted to go further, but he said no. It's all good. I love you anyway. Thank you, Paula.
01:03:19
Speaker 3: Thank you, Paula. Thank you, Jeff.
01:03:20
Speaker 1: Join the local theater. You never know who you'll kiss. Kim, this first season is a way into a whole world. And it's really cool because we get to have the gift of hindsight to gain insight and help these poor souls out there. You know what I'm saying? Really, because it's tough being single. and living single. So, you know, let's stay tuned because we got a lot of, you know, jewels to give you.
01:03:41
Speaker 3: A lot of wisdom to drop.
01:03:42
Speaker 2: Yeah.
01:03:42
Speaker 3: Speaking of wisdom that was dropped, Robert Horn was absolutely delicious.
01:03:47
Speaker 2: Robert Horn. Delicious.
01:03:48
Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah, it was beautiful.
01:03:50
Speaker 1: It was. Thank you so much, Robert. Thank you for taking time in London to... To discuss it, but also for doing the work.
01:03:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, for doing the work and showing us how it's done.
01:03:59
Speaker 1: Masterclass.
01:04:00
Speaker 3: And we want all of you to keep tuning in every week, all the places where the podcasts are. And you can write us at relivingsinglepodcasts at heartbeat.com. And that's H-A-R-T-B-E-A-T.com. Tell your friends.
01:04:16
Speaker 1: Isn't this good?
01:04:17
Speaker 3: It's good.
01:04:17
Speaker 1: It's great.
01:04:18
Speaker 3: Juicy conversations. And we look amazing.
01:04:21
Speaker 2: Yes.
01:04:22
Speaker 3: That's really, listen, if you're watching, if you're listening, you might want to watch the video, the VOD part of the VOD cast.
01:04:28
Speaker 1: See, it's all moisturized.
01:04:29
Speaker 3: Yes, yes.
01:04:31
Speaker 2: Fabulous.
01:04:32
Speaker 3: All right, we'll see y'all next week.
01:04:33
Speaker 1: Yep.
01:04:33
Speaker 3: Okay, bye-bye now.
01:04:34
Speaker 2: Bye.
01:04:34
Speaker 3: Bye-bye now. Reliving Single is hosted by Erica Alexander and me, Kim Coles. Reliving Single is a production of Heartbeat in association with Color Farm Media. Executive produced by Kevin Hart, Jeff Clannigan, Eric Eddings, Leslie Guam, Erica Alexander, and Ben Arnon. This show is produced by Kim Coles. Amber Watson is our senior producer. Our associate producer is Kenny Jackson. Our video editor is Shannon Joy Rogers. Our sound engineers are Eric Hicks and Cedric Wilson. Production supervision by Razak Boykin. Additional production support from Alex Atkins and Z Taylor. And a special thanks to Dr.
01:05:20
Speaker 2: E.J.
01:05:21
Speaker 3: Johnson.