Episode 013 - Strong vs. Deep: What Your Desires Are Telling You Pt. 1

Audio: So fatherhood is somewhat of a a journey of conflicting desires. You wanna advance in your career, but you also want to be home with your kids. You just want to get your kids to bed, but then as soon as you get them to sleep, all you can do is think about how you wish you could spend more time with them. maybe you wish you had more godly guys in your life, more friends, more bros that are in this fatherhood journey. But at the same time when you get a little bit free time, time alone sounds kinda nice too. So what do you do with conflicting desires? Better yet, how do we allow desires to be a compass to point us towards the life that God has for us? and not something that is an appetite that rules over us and dictates who we are and who we become. So really this episode is all about how our strongest desires are not the same thing as our deepest desires. And today we're gonna talk about the differences of those and how desires can be a tool to help us become better dads.
The Boys And Audio: Hey, welcome to the Relatively Functional Dads podcast for fathers doing their best and learning every day. We're just three relatives walking through faith, fatherhood, and real life together. That was me. No experts here, just honest conversations about the wins, the struggles, and the moments that shape us as men and dads. Some days we've got it together, other days we're just trying to get to bedtime, but we keep showing up. And if you're dad... In the middle of it too, you're in the right place. Let's journey through this together.
Audio: Reese, long day for ya. Long day. We made it here. Did you have any desire to not come record a podcast tonight? I did not. Amen. I did have a desire to nap while you guys did the podcast. But we're here. We're ready to rock and roll. I think that my strongest desire would be that everybody listening to this would just do us a huge favor and subscribe, leave us a review. Send us your questions. Follow us on Instagram, Relatively Functional Dads. I almost said dot com. That's we don't have a website. Doesn't cost you anything, helps us out a ton. if works listening to this, I'm not trying to quit my day job. at all. But you know, if we made a living off this, I wouldn't be mad about it. It'd be nice to lose less money on network. Supp supplemental exactly. It'd be nice if we could go net neutral, not net loss. you're getting good at transitioning into begging people to follow us on Instagram. So kudos. And begging is the word. Yes. True. That's all I have. Good. We won't we won't talk long about it, but we will be direct. Go ahead and hook us up. Help us out. Hey, ask us some questions. Send us an email. Our email is in the description. Drop a comment on IG. If you're listening on YouTube, do that. Reese has got sleeves on this week, so the wife pleaser was put away. And if you want to see it back by popular demand, we deserve some DMs. So let us know. Careful. All right, Reese, we want to have some fun. What's our first segment? Segment number one. Dad decision. Dad decision. Sorry, I love this one too much. I've been having way too much fun with y'all doing this one. So starting off with our first question. Would you rather get three hours completely alone every Saturday or have your entire family tell you how much they appreciate you every Saturday? I realize both these were c semi serious, but I also So there's like a correct answer in this and there's an honest answer in this. Do you want me to go? Yeah, I do. Three hours alone. No no no no sweat off my back. I didn't have to think about this one at all. it's really, really nice whenever my family tells me that they appreciate me, which is really just one person, because Roman doesn't tell me anything other than screaming for more food or that he's unhappy. so really it's just one person. And I it's really nice whenever you get appreciated for the stuff that you do, but It's not nicer than three hours alone. And and you come back a better man. So that's gonna be my answer too, because for the sake of my family, if I had some time to think about life while sitting in a tree stand or getting a good pump with one of my friends or going to a coffee shop and journaling, those are probably my top three things I would do. I'm gonna come back a better man, ready to rock and roll. So yeah, for the sake of my family, I'm gonna take three hours by myself. I think that I thought about it from a need perspective. I think I could go my whole life, difficult as it may be, without appreciation from people, I might build some resentment and be really frustrated. I'm I'm seen by the father though. I'm seen by the father. Like he's gonna provide that. But if you put me in a group of people and I never got to be alone ever again, I would kill all those people. Solitude is a must for the spirit. I would create solitude for myself. You would you would take care of that. God, it's you or me. Someone's going down here. Someone's going down. I will have a lone time. man. Yeah, that's there's an honest answer and a right answer, but I would say three hours alone. Yeah. I don't know. Is there actually a right answer? Because there are some people that truly like for them it they're like, Yeah, okay, fine, I'm I'm fine without three hours. Like truly I I it is so important to me to know that the people that I spend the most time with and that I care about the most appreciate me and that communicates a level of respect. So I don't know that it's like That's your love language more. Yeah. I now I'm I'm the three hours alone and not for either of you all of like a need to function and like y you come back a better man. I'm like, I could go do something that I want to do. Like it I just It's exciting. I would enjoy getting to do that 'cause I I I don't feel like I plan well enough or have the time planned out well enough to be like it takes a lot of effort. Yes, and then the time that I get is maybe like an hour, which is still a gift. Yeah. But I need like a a ramping up time and then like a a coming off time of like, okay, I'm I'm ready. I'm excited to do this. Like I'm I'm prepping my mind to be able to like addict. Need a little time some uppers and downers. It's true. but like I'm sure that there are some people like for me, no question the three hours. Yeah. but I'm I know people where three hours like they don't they don't really want to be alone like that and it would mean the world to them to hear regularly like No, we appreciate you, we're selfish 'cause we got people who do appreciate us are taking that for granted. I probably am taking that for granted. So it's a good question. I'm easy to appreciate. You are. Okay. You were supposed to give me crap for that. No, I that's the agreement. I know it does. Can we run this back? I'll get you, but that was I look like an That wasn't it. All right. Is that it? Everybody good on that one? Yep. All right. On to the next. would you rather be an incredible dad, but everyone outside of your immediate family thinks that you are the worst dad? Or be a decent dad, but everyone outside of your immediate family thinks you're the best dad. Dad decisions. Dad decisions. Originally I was thinking I would do like the opposites for this question, so you're the worst dad, but everyone thinks you're the best. But I thought that might be a little bit too easy. Yeah, that's kinda hard. a little bit too easy to pick. I think most I think that we would all probably pick the first one. Maybe we still would, but I think that No, it's an easier one. I meant when when I say hard I mean like kinda hard to talk about. Like that's a hard reality to I don't want people thinking I'm the worst. Yeah, I mean I think When I die, the people who know me best, I want to have the highest opinion of me. So yeah, there's there's no doubt that that that definitely plays into it highly for me. I think the second option is honestly closer to the reality that I live day in and day out. Anyways, not because everyone thinks I'm the best dad, but I'm definitely probably closer to being a decent dad than an incredible dad. yeah. But I think I'd pick the first one. I may have myself just completely convinced that I don't care about other people's opinions all that much. And maybe that's just my coping mechanism. Sometimes I say that to people and they're like, Yeah, but do you really? so I don't know. most of the time people's opinions of me don't mm I don't know, overly affect me. It depends on who it is. obviously the people closest to me have the most impact whenever they if they think less of me, it's harder for me to process that then. somebody random or somebody I don't know all that well, but I think I could live with people outside my immediate family. that's a lot of people. thinking that I'm the worst dad. that's a lot of people. That's a lot of people. Yeah, that's hard to think. I mean, kinda sucks to think about. But yeah, I'm I'm going immediate family. Cause what my wife says about me is probably the most important thing in my life. Sometimes probably too important. But yeah, it's very important. Wait, which one are you going with? Wait, okay, read it again. So I might be Okay, sorry, sorry. My bad. Would you rather be an incredible dad, but everyone outside of your immediate family thinks that you're the worst dad. So everybody except Naomi, Grayson, Karis. Nah, bump them. I don't care. What? I don't care about what other people think. I care about what Naomi and Grayson and Karis and Madeline think. Okay, then though then Yeah, so he's picking the first he's p you picking the first option. Okay. And the second one is you're a you're a you're a decent dad, but you're nothing like super special. But everyone outside thinks that you're And there and there's a lot of celebrity, I don't want to say pastors only, but a lot of people where that's kind of the case were publicly like, yeah, then probably not in dirt bags, probably doing some good things, but nah, I could see I I had I had trouble with this one because like I think of my immediate family, but then I think like I'm in community with you all. Well, that's true. Yeah. It would be if you all thought that I was the worst dad ever, you all would not necessarily stand for that. And ideally, like you're in a community where if you are in community with other brothers that are brothers, whether family or not. Like you you're in community with other dads and if they think like you're doing something wildly wrong, ideally you're in a community that's strong enough to be able to be like, Hey, you need to either tell us more about the situation or you need to be called out on something. Yeah, if they're constantly calling you out for something that's not true. Yeah. How how long can you stand on your own two feet before I would hate you guys coming in and being like, Hey dude, there we feel like there was something wildly wrong in the way that you were parenting Yeah. Just leading your family and be like, no, there's not. Like I'm I'm doing great. And here's here's why. And you all just wouldn't take that. So But the truth would be I'm crushing it in this imaginary situation. Yeah, the truth is that you are crushing it, but everyone except for your immediate household family. We'll just say household. Sure. Anyone that's in the house sees that you're an incredible dad. Everyone else thinks you're the worst. Or sorry, decent. No, they they think that you're a bad the thing was a bad thing. Sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. Everyone in your household Sees that you're an incredible dad, but everyone outside the household thinks you're the worst. The worst. And thinks that they know that for like certain. There's more nuance since you explained it and I wasn't listening well the first time. you're fine. I sent these like three PM today. But we prep for other things. All considering I still say forget everyone else outside my household. Because when my kids are twenty five, I want them around my campfire, not someone else's when they come back for vacation. When they're back from college, I want them hanging with me. So and these are the most important years and their opinion and my wife's opinion is all that matter. I can't believe you just give me up like that. Bro, I've been looking at her the last two minutes. I've been looking to fight you. Honestly, this is what I do to you every day, anyways. Been looking to cut you out. If you say anything to Madeline, I'm like, could you stop yelling at Could you stop yelling at your wife? First thing you said when you walked into my house, trying to start a fight. So funny, dude. man. I I would go with the first one. I would be I I would choose to be an incredible dad, but everyone outside my immediate family thinks that I'm the worst. Us first the world type. Yeah, I'm honestly I'm pretty cool with that. Yeah. It's kind of my default position anyways. Yeah. Like y if everyone else around you is just gassing you up for what you did, either you get way too full of yourself or you feel even more of an imposter syndrome than a lot of people do feel about being a dad. Like I'm not qualified to do this. Yeah. But like we're it's the relatively functional dad podcast. But like if if you were like you're like I I feel Okay about my week, but there are a lot of things that like are weighing heavily on me. Yeah. And then like Reese comes up to you and is like, I think you are the greatest dad that I have ever seen. Yeah. Words that have never come out of his mouth. No, it won't. But like, how how would that make you feel? Like be like would that make you excited and like glad that you the things that you feel like you're doing well are being like celebrated to the extreme, or would it make you feel like dude, this exact situation, I was listening to Intentional Fatherhood, shout out, no free shout outs, but shout out that podcast. And yeah, same thing. The dude was saying, like, he had a really hard day the day before. He's almost my exact same age with three kids under six like me. And one of his friends was like affirming how good a dad he was, and he's like, I mean, it's encouraging, but it it was just it was hard to digest. It was almost convicting. Yeah. You know? So there is when you're your false self of who you want people to think you are. projects one thing and your true self is actually something different, which is everyone's story. Like you are never the man outside the house a hundred percent of who you are within it. And if you are you lying, I promise you you're lying. But yeah that that difference, that gap, hopefully it's small, but the bigger it gets the heavier that weight is for sure. Yeah. That like comment from the outside is almost always met with the angel and the devil on the shoulder or God and the devil on the shoulder just kind of like a figuring out how do I accept some of the truth of that but also I know the real me inside and trying to figure out what what the lies are, what the truth is with that kind of statement. So Yeah. I get that. Well yep, that's a good point though. Kick it back to you, buddy. We wanna do some Should've known better? We should probably do the second segment that we wrote down. Second segment Should've known better. Back by popular demand. We took we took an episode off, so you know we got some crazy stuff. Should have known better. So Just for the listeners who don't know, we don't say these things because we're proud of them. We're just saying so you can learn from us and with us. Speak for yourself. Because relatively functional is not an exaggeration around here. Yeah. S semi functional. Sha semi Mine's not like a a hard like this wasn't a huge mistake, but it had huge consequences. So I've learned a lot from it. I'll I'll rip. Okay. So my my daughter's five. She's real big into nature and bugs and outdoors. And her grandmother, Madeline's mom, our mother-in-law, she teaches second graders the whole caterpillar to chrysalis, and then the chrysalis turns into the butterfly with the monarch butterfly. So we wanted to find a monarch butterfly caterpillar and raise it. The you have to get milkweed, which is a specific type of leaf. Like this is a finicky bug. And we have three things, four things we're trying to keep alive in our household if you count our dog. which I don't most days. He's just he's pretty resilient. He happens to live even though you haven't tried Yeah, he's he's resilient. And your masculine spirit. Yeah you guys are outnumbered. You and Grayson are fighting to keep that alive at all costs. So my three month old's my priority and then probably my three and then my five year old as far as the needs. That's the priority. And so anyways, this caterpillar, we're heavily invested. I mean, we're very invested in this caterpillar. I don't know the life cycle of it. This thing was really small. I don't know why we didn't just pick out a big one, but They only found one. My wife and Naomi, they went on this like fun little date. They rode their bikes. They found this milkweed plant. They found this caterpillar. They brought it back. Two weeks in, this thing's growing. We're like, all right, bet. It's about to start climbing up this big old container we have to turn into a cocoon. Well, we come one day and it's just like leaking green juice and curled up in a ball. Gosh darn it. And I'm like, boy. It's like in my mind becoming a cocoon, but it's not attached. To anything like on the ceiling. So I'm like, hey, sweetheart, like I think it's dying. So Naomi lets out, like, a God, save this caterpillar. Please save this caterpillar. Will the Lord will you please? And I'm yeah, sweetie, you can pray for that. Absolutely. And I'm thinking, there ain't no way this calip. It ain't making it to lunch, bro. Help me with my non-belief. We are Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief. That's my life verse, right? So we bring it into this room and there's some sunlight here, and I have You wouldn't be danged by about three o'clock, this thing's eating a leaf. No way. It's moving around. No. It's chilling. Naomi gets home from school, I'm like, baby, this thing is alive. That is not what I was expecting. I didn't want to like exactly equate, like the Lord answered your prayers, because you know it's a fragile situation, but like, praise God. And I'm like, I'm kind of having a spiritual like Bro, I didn't even believe this would happen and the Lord's done it. Faithful when you're faithless, baby. I'm telling you. And then the next day it died, bro. Listen, he answered. We stopped praying. And then he's we stopped praying. But here here's kind of the serious part. So it died and it was Naomi's like second day of school and we're like, Bro, we gotta I gotta tell her. And she had like legit tears. Like my daughter's very emotional for five year old, but like crying out to God, like, please bring it back to life. Why didn't you answer? 'Cause it like dead dead this time. And I was trying to say, like, baby, it's not coming back to life. Like you can you can pray, but it's it's dead and her like grasping the finality of death. So that was really hard. it brought back I mean, Madeline started crying. I was really more emotional the day before I kinda gone that with her. She was doing the same thing, like crying out to God. 'Cause it it it reminded me of unanswered prayers for my own dad's illness and his death and but we had about a ten minute conversation about grief and like just feeling your feelings and talking to God and I shared, I like, Hey, I've I've asked for God to do things and he has not answered it the way I thought. And it was really hard. So we had it we had a really good conversation out of it. But the should've known better is bro, if you get a caterpillar, just go ahead and get five or six of That's right, that's right. Play the numbers game. Hey, I'm proud of you for turning that into something that yeah. To let your daughter grieve and teaching her about grief. Most kids have hard days but they don't understand the c I don't understand the concept of grief. Yeah. Buddy recently introduced that to the or introduced what grief is to me like four years ago and I've been trying to process. What what did I have to grieve? Everything was great. but Yeah, we did we weren't gonna avoid it or distract or we'll just get another one. It like, no we're gonna feel this and we're gonna talk to God about it. Yes. And that's why it's awesome because the temptation to be like, honey, it's a cata it was a caterpillar. This is like no big deal at all. There's a hundred million of the well, actually I don't know about the monarchs, but we're losing them honestly. But butterflies in general. There's a lot of butterflies. Like the temptation to be like, my gosh, life's hard. We got a lot of stuff going on. I got three kids, a million things that we've got to get done. I don't have time to sit and teach my daughter about grief of this butterfly that didn't make it, so kudos to you for for pulling that off. Yeah. It was a lot, man. It was heavy, heavier than I thought, cause she legit was crushed. But yeah, go ahead and just get you a half dozen, play the numbers game. Because if if three died but three made it, I think we'd have been all right. But anyways. What you got, man? A month of of just doing dumb stuff. What do you want to share with the people? You know what's so funny is I was having a hard time figuring this out. And it's never because I don't have a should have known better. It's because my should have known betters aren't like approved for public. Consumption. I have so many spot. I have so many things that happen throughout the course of two weeks to a month, depending on when we record, that would absolutely make should have known better, but they're not always great for great for the air. So so either way, that makes it sound like it's way worse than sorry, that's not what I meant. But nothing illegal. Yeah, not nothing illegal, nothing, nothing like that. but My should known better was we went to Holiday World. Did you? Yeah, and that's it. I'm just kidding. If you don't know, you can just assume. I'm just kidding. We had a great time. We went to Holiday World. Ellie and myself, Mom Papa Frasier watched Roman. So, we got to sp spend open to close at Holiday World. Ellie has been telling me about Holiday World for years and years and years. And if there's one thing I remembered, it's that she said they make a mean slice of pizza. yeah. Madeline's talked about that. If you tell me that there's a place on earth that makes decent pizza or donuts. Yeah. I won't remember half of what you told me about it outside of that, but I'll always remember did you didn't you say they had good pizza there? Because that's exactly what I asked her. So But is it like good for a I don't know, seven year old when she remembers it as a kid or was it actually pretty good? It was pretty good. I had d I didn't realize this, but at lunch I ordered it, and then we had it again for whenever we were leaving the park. I did not realize that what I had for lunch was gonna be the same pizza and neither did she. So she was worried because the stuff at lunch was not that great. Okay. But I think it had been sitting out for a while because it was the cheese was not melted or anything like that. but when we got done at the end of the day, they didn't have the pizza we wanted ready, so they had to make it fresh. Yeah. And it was delicious. could have been that we were at the end of a 12-hour day at the park, but to be honest with you, I don't think it was. I think it was pretty good pizza. So yeah, it was great. for those who don't know, I hate crowds. Yeah. Despise them. You it's not that you're not a human, but like in my eyes, you've lost your like humanhood once you're just among the the large groups of people because I'm not gonna get to know you on an individual level, which is really the only thing that I care about. So whether that's right or wrong, that's how my brain operates. And so I knew that one, I had been looking forward to this. So there's a lot of times I'm going into a crowd situations. I'm not excited about the experience at all. I'm dreading it. like if I was told we were going to a concert, I I would have been like, I mean, I guess we can just burn Saturdays, because we're gonna go to a concert. But yeah, the amusement park, it was great. We also went with another couple, friends of ours and I hadn't been on a double date in forever. Yeah, it was with no kids. Yeah, with no kids. With no kids. Yeah, it's different. It's a date, actually. Yeah. Double double date, no kids. and we we had a just the time of our lives. But the should have known better. This all sounds great. This all great. We all had we had fun. We rode some roller coasters, and then they have this big water park is 95 degrees and sun beating down on us. So the water park was awesome. the one part of the water park that was not awesome, You don't know me, but I wear socks and shoes 100% of my life. 100%. Like if you if you blindfolded Ellie and she touched the bottom of Roman, my one-year-old's foot and my foot, she wouldn't be able to tell the difference. That's how soft the bottom of my feet are. That's not true. I've played sports most of my life. They have big calluses, but also they are in socks and shoes 90% of the time. So like I have my feet are not ready for anything. If you w if anyone wants to get a big laugh, Ask me to go walk across some gravel barefoot. You will watch it fold and crumple, mulch to anything. The pavement was 170,000 sack degrees out there, and I was about to have a brain aneurysm because of how hot my feet were. at the water park. At the water park. Yep. At the water park. So we're just going from one place to the next, and I'm acting like a ninja in broad daylight, trying to find the spots where there's been some shade recently to like hop onto the water down here. A little bit of water. so I'm I'm just the guy like running around, hopping around like a ballerina from one spot to the next. And I can't tell you how many times Ellie's like, You should like get some open toed shoes or something like that. some Chacos, yes. No. Some choco she did tell me to get Chacos. Yeah, I'm not a Chaco person. Slides. I've had I also am not a slides person. I just don't like any of it, but I like slides more than Chacos. So you know, it's the athlete's guard. You know, yeah. Slides. Honestly, one brother there was wearing his socks in the lazy river and I couldn't figure out why and I realized I'm an idiot. he was smarter than I was. Yeah. His feet were fine. He had his socks on. the man's practical. Yes, very practical. and my feet were burnt up by the end of the day. So I think I wrote for should have known better, Holiday World, sensitive feet, hot pavement. So that's if if we want to put that all into one concise sentence. If you just said that, that would have been so bad. I'm no longer explaining my segments, I'm just reading what I wrote down. With no chapter titles. Yes, chapter titles. What is the chapter title? That'll be perfect. Okay. All right, that's what we're Should we get to the real content? Yeah, it's funny how like all that we're going to shift into some extremely serious, hopefully life-changing stuff. Cause some of the stuff I told the guys a couple weeks ago we gotta talk about this. I was reminded of the need to evaluate desires. Cause a a quick framing for this is again dad's I talked about this at the intro of the episode. We're just a walking bundle of competing desires. So you want adventure in your life, whether that's hunting or sports you're training for or vacations and travel, but then you also want stability. you want purposeful work. You want to push yourself and grind and move up the career ladder or go back to school. But you also just want some peace and quiet and rest. You want a six pack, but you like barbecue tacos, so you eat six of those. So you know there's there's competing desires and the the tension That alone's not the malfunction. It's the human condition to want more than we can have at any given time. And sometimes those things compete. The problem is is we try and solve these conflicts by compromising and getting a little bit of everything. So like here's I want this and I want this and I want this. And next thing you know, we are being ruled by our desires instead of us ruling over them and using these desires to point us towards how God's made us. opportunities in our lives, what we enjoy, stuff like that. Or we just ignore them altogether. Yeah. Honestly, it's like, man, like there's some toxic masculinity of like none of what you feel matters. none of your, you know, you gotta die to yourself, which is true, but then you lose yourself all entirely instead. So really what what we want to talk about is how desires help reveal how God has designed us and how to pursue a fullness of life for ourselves, but not just fullness of life for ourselves, but for the people around us. through being aware of these desires and and fulfilling them. So very practically before I get into the weeds and explain strong desires versus deep desires, what are the desires that are actually competing inside of your heart and your brain on a typical Monday night like tonight? what was something today, a good practical example? I mean, today is a little different just because we're recording. So like I'm not home so it's not a typical evening for me. But I mean Anything from Monday night football. It's third and short. Roman bonks his head. Conflicting desires. Do I go help my son? Are they in the red zone? Yes. Are we in the red zone? A lot of questions going on at that moment. Is Ellie around to see this? no, just kidding. I have not had a true football season with Roman yet where he is walking around as a personality and stuff like that. So most the time if there was a football game going on, he was like a potato. Dude, I'd be praying for eight PM kickoff because I can get the kids to my goodness. Yes. But like the four thirty, you're done. You're done. You're not gonna watch it. Yep. It's it's a different season. But football, alone time, I just listed things. So we can dive deeper on any of these, but honestly, peace, like something desires that we'd be competing, peace versus intentionally and actively having conversations with my wife, playing with my son. I'm not at the point yet where my son constantly wants my attention. he does want attention, but not in the he can't say that verbally, like, hey dad, come play with me, come play with me, come play with me. Honestly, I can outrun him. So he even if I playing for him is me going from one room to the next and he just follows me from one spot to the next. So things like that versus Man, I'd really love for nobody to talk to me for thirty minutes and me not have to listen to any noise, just throw some noise canceling headphones on and just sit in silence for thirty minutes. so things like that, hobbies, interests, depending on the time of year, time with friends versus spouse, like that's w a big one that's been different. My life really truly was for a decade plus. I got my responsibilities done during the day at school, didn't always do my homework but immediately upon getting home from school. What am I doing with my friends later today? It's different now. but still not choosing to be like I like to do things black and white. So I'm in my brain it would be easier to be like, well I'm just done with friends for this season. When in reality that's not the best thing for myself or my family, truth be told. so I don't know if I've expounded too far on this button 'cause we'll we'll peel back more layers and more examples. I think I think those are things Yeah, most everyone, if they're honest, can relate to. One I was thinking about today is I desire to be a dad that follows through. But then I also desire whenever my kids are pushing my buttons and I still got other things to get done to like get dinner on the table 'cause I'm hungry. Sure. Like, okay, so do I put my foot down and said, If you do this again, we're gonna go time out and follow through. So that's a competing des that's a very practical one that happened over dinner time tonight. Sure. Right now, do I desire to hang with friends? Or stay up late and watch a show with my wife, have some quality time, or do I do I go to bed 'cause I'm like physically exhausted. So you have kind of relational cups full, but physically you're real tired. work. Do I do I finish on time or do I work fifteen more minutes so I can get ahead for tomorrow so I can work on another project and keep trying to climb the ladder? Like those are competing desires because wh every extra minute I'm at work is I also have a desire to be a present dad with my kids. So they they compete. And they're good things. All those things are good things. I want to help cook dinner, but I also need to discipline my kids because it's important to follow through. So which do you pick? It's hard. It's hard. 'Cause you don't have it'd be nice if you just had like a a phone battery logo or emblem to see kind of where you're at. You don't really know your capacity. It's not a little bar that you get to watch go go down. Sometimes you're on E and you don't really quite know it yet, or maybe you do know it but you're resisting it at all costs and things like that. So I get that. Sometimes y you almost overestimate or sometimes I overestim estimate myself in thinking I'm on E, but like I can push it. Same way I do with the car. Yeah. so, and sometimes you break down and triple A has to come get you. So but except triple A's God in this case. Yeah. So that makes sense to me. Yeah. It's a good analogy. Yeah. He's reliable. That's good. No free shout outs. No free shout outs to God gets God God gets a free shout out. Triple A though. Shout out God. Not triple A. Yeah. That's funny. Mm. Sometimes I forget that you need to go first so I can just say ditto afterwards. Yeah. Well we're not gonna allow that. Okay, fine. What else you got? something I thought about was why do you think so many dads feel guilty for even really having desires of their own? Whether that be rest, hobbies, adventure, yeah, success at work. you think that's like a desire problem or something else? I think so I'll use the example of hunting. Like I desire strong desire is to kill a ten put ten point buck with my my bow sometime by the end of November this year. but the deep desire is just adventure and to to be outside and to yeah, be able to challenge myself and kind of the unknown. A lot of my life is so predictable. that like dude, I don't I don't know if I'm gonna see nothing or the that one I got on trail camera's actually gonna come out and not win me and come into bow range, right? And then after I shoot it, do I place the right shot and then just getting my hands dirty processing a deer. So it's like all those are good desires, man. Like God's made me as a a man to chase some adventure in my life. But the problem is a lot of times once I bite off a little bit of that, like I can get fixated on it. And I'm thankful like Again, if I if I do it right, both seasons about six weeks long. You do like a little s extra scouting and shooting a month before, but all in all it's a two to three month a year hobby. So that saves me because it's it could be real easy to get overly fixated. And there's been times I've done it well and other times I've not. So I think some sometimes the desires are good. The desire for rest or the desire to feel known and loved or the desire for adventure. But As we begin to pursue fulfillment of that desire, what are we forsaking along the way? So some of us have forsaken the most important things or more important things in order to attain that. And because of that, it's like, well then I just won't hunt at all. Or like I'm I mean a different analogy is like, you know, whether it's diet or drinking alcohol, it's like and and it is that one is probably true. For some people, it's like I just can't drink at all. So Sure, but we translate that to all areas of our life of like I'm not owed any of this other aspect of me because I don't know how to keep it in check. Yeah. No, I think a lot of that hits home. Sometimes it it just seems simpler and easier to just cut it out altogether. When the funny thing is it seems like the the holier option. It does. But in all reality, sometimes I just imagine God sitting there going, You know what's funny is I actually want you to figure this out. Yeah. Rather than rather than just Try to wipe your hands clean of it and be like, all right, I don't really feel like figuring out how to enjoy creation in a in a moderate way. God forbid I worship him out in nature a few times a month. I yes, I d I get hit with this all the time, this feeling of like God really wants me to figure out how to enjoy things in moderation, because I do not enjoy things in moderation. I know that's extra hard for you. Most things I do not enjoy in moderation. I would rather have so little or so much than try to try to have a little bit. and I think it comes with most consumables, like food. Yeah. You like your sugar, bro. I like my sugar content, like TV. If episodes for Ted Lasso didn't come out week by week, I would have binged the whole thing in the first night. I would I would have not slept. Season four. Season four. Yeah. Yeah. So No Free Shout Outs. Thing yeah, the no free shout outs. Things like that. I just I don't have an interest in doing things in moderation. I think God loves me too much to not put me in situations where I have to figure that out. Yeah. because if I live my whole life thinking I'll just Cut this out until it's available again and then I'll go all in whenever or sorry, cut this out for now since it's really not available in the season of life that I have. Yeah. But once it is, I do have margin for it. I'm gonna bring it back in and in a big way. Yeah. I d I don't really think he wants that for me. and then you're one of them old heads playing golf every day instead of using some of your wisdom in your sixties to bless someone. Yeah, for sure. Not there's anything wrong with that. No, no, no. I'm jealous. That sounds like the other Dra Drake say jealousy is love and hate at the same time. Yeah. I think I had to work a Drake quote in. Amen. So but I I I answered this a little bit differently, with the you know, I answered more the second question, like is the desire the problem or something else? I think that sometimes or the the beginning where it asks about whether we feel guilty. Or why dads feel guilty for things. I think that I've been through this some, but to be honest with you, I I don't I don't feel guilt a lot. there are plenty of decisions that I look back and think that was a dumb decision. But I try not to carry guilt around as best I can. I God has allowed me to not carry guilt around quite as much as maybe I used to, but I think for me when I have, it's been a combination of comparison with s my spouse and others. So like sure a lot of the dads in that we know that we're tight with, they're great dads. I don't know if they'd all say so, but got a lot of great dads in our our friend group and in our inner circle. And sometimes it can just be you c I c think I could feel guilty from just watching them and like, well, it doesn't seem like they're taking as much for themselves as I'd like to take for myself or interesting spouse. Doesn't seem like my spouse is taking as much for herself as as I would like to be taking for myself. Or maybe just less interests, like fewer interests. I can think of there are a few times that I'm given an opportunity to have uninterrupted free time that I don't have seven things that I could You gotta get your wives on a hobby, dude. Yes. a hobby's helpful because it creates an equal dynamic. Yeah. It's real it's it's not a real fun time when anytime you have free time, you're like, thank God, I've got So many things I'm excited about doing. if your spouse doesn't have something like that, it can be tough because it's just like, well, they almost don't even like free time sometimes. and I would I would kill for free time. That's one of the things that I enjoyed most growing up. But I think another spot for guilt can be like a lack of understanding that desire doesn't equal selfishness. Yeah. I think sometimes people feel guilty before they've even done anything. Yeah. Like I'm just guilty for wanting this. Yeah. And I'm like, to me, that doesn't make any sense. I don't think I control my desires. I think I control what I do with my desires. so I think that that was something I I spent a little time thinking about this one because I I've seen this come up quite a few times. I love talking to people who think they suck or ha carry a lot of guilt around. Just because I I love to point and shine the light on the things that they are good at, or maybe a way they're the maybe a way they're viewing this isn't like something God would necessarily want for them or feel for them, but might just be like a little subtle subtle lie, not necessarily from the enemy, but it could be. also just like your own consciousness and maybe the world is telling you something and you're just eating it up. So yeah. I think that I don't think the desire's the problem. I also put thank God. Yeah. Cause if desires were the problem, I'd have a lot of problems. Well, there's this there was I was raised in my church tradition. There's a a verse in Jeremiah that says, The heart is wicked, essentially no one can trust it. And what was taught to me is like you can't trust anything that you want. Which was wildly What if you want God? Yeah, dude. So I was like, I wanted to go into vocational ministry, and then I began to question well, is this just something I want to do for me, or is this something God wants for me? And and then you get into Psalm thirty-seven or whatever, that's like delight yourself in the Lord and he'll give you the desires of your heart. And you're like, okay, hold up. Now I'm all like in a pretzel. So we'll we'll unpack some of that. But for some people, their church tradition has said, hey, you can't trust your flesh. And anything you you want is your flesh. And I would just say, No, you were made in the image of God. And if you're walking in the Spirit, a lot of times those things that God's given you that you desire It finds ultimate fulfillment in him, but that that expression looks very diverse and it's fun finding it. You saying that makes me think of one of the first desires that were shown in the Bible, like take Adam and Eve desiring the fruit. it said it was good for food and they were curious. I don't know. Yeah, it looked good. It looked good to eat and there was one other aspect of it that I'm trying to think of. I don't know. It's the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I don't think the desire for either of those two things was wrong. Right. If they had turned around if they had turned around and said, hey God, we're we're hungry, that fruit looks good, and we want to know what the knowledge of good and evil is all about, and let him answer, sure. That desire wouldn't have been wrong. Right. They might not have gotten the outcome they wanted. But I don't think the desire was ever the wrong the wrong thing. But that's me. You know, we didn't we didn't plan this. I didn't like it. I didn't realize that this was what was going on, but I was reading in The Lord and His Prayer by In T Wright, and there's a part on Give us a stay or daily bread. And so he's he's talking about the daily bread. And one of the things that he is he's talking about is like there are a lot of and this was more so in relation to like the needs that you have, but also desires. he w he was talking about how there are a lot of religions and traditions that Say like your your highest form of spirituality is like the denial of these needs. And like the Lord's not asceticism is that the words that is a yes. but the Lord isn't denying that there are physical needs. He's like, So I will give you not only will I give you these spiritual needs, and so sometimes people will choose to elevate, like when they're asking for daily bread, they will ask for these spiritual sure things for a number of reasons. He's got a number of reasons that I think are neat, but that's not the point. But he also is like, I will also give you these physical things. Because I know them. Like it i I I know what it is that you need, and I want to bless you with that. But then he goes on to talk to talk about that portion of the Lord's prayer is a gift in the fact that sometimes when we come with prayer to the Lord, we come kind of with this either thoughtful or not thoughtful, just stream of consciousness, the list of desires and once and kind of like, okay, God, hey, here's the things that I want and need. I I w I want this today. I I need this today. And that just becomes kind of your stream of con consciousness prayer to the Lord. And his idea is this section of the Lord's Prayer is an opportunity for that, for that section of stream of consciousness of these are the things that I'm thinking about, these are the things that I need. I'm seeing this in my day, Lord, I I I need focus for this heavy time with work that's going on or I I foresee that I've got like six meetings back to back to back all through lunch. Lord, I I need food. Help me get through that. but he's saying that there's an opportunity for that, but it comes after you have laid yourself before the Lord and and identified the Lord is holy. He is my father. I get to be at his feet. And then it's followed by your kingdom come, your will be done. I am signing up. For your will to be done. And all that is to put into context, okay, now I have these desires. Yeah. It's framed. But they are they're coming after this and in an ideal world, and what we as believers we hope to strive for is the fulfillment of these desires is the Lord in some way, shape, or form. To that point of Yeah, seek the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. Yeah. That is what we long for, but that's not everything that we long for. He has given us good things and and wonderful things to enjoy here within the context of your will be done. Yeah. And I have signed up for that as your agent, as your child, as your apprentice. Like I I want to follow after you. Yeah. But we also have desires and they are wonderful. And it is okay when they are within the bounds and the context of who it is. And some of them have to die and some of them have to you actually have to seek fulfillment more in. So it's like as you bring it to God is like, whoa, is this something you want me to work hard at to s find fulfillment? Or is this something like, No, bro, this ain't for you. And some of them are obvious, right? Like another drink or looking at a website or man, one of my examples is I wanna c I have a desire to control my kids. I want to listen to me, man. But like stinking kids. The way that that's done is through sacrificial love and through like long term obedience and yeah, it's not yeah, not through smacking over the back of the head, even though that's something. So that's not even when you have to bring to the Lord. That's just his his revealed will and character shows you. I'm derailing, but you're not derailing. I think bringing it to God, that's that's kind of we're gonna come back to that here in a moment. Cause it is hard to to know is this a good desire or a bad desire. And I would say the binary framework for desire is not helpful. It's not good or bad. Just bring it to God and then see what it looks like to to make a godly decision with it or not. I really heard of this two or three years ago from a teaching series John Mark Comer did and He was sharing there's a difference between strong desire and deep desire. And there's a lot of different people that talk about this using different language, but there's a church tradition that that helps differentiate of, hey, you have a desire. Is this something that's and I I'll I'll give some examples of the differences between the two. And the reason why that's important is because often the strong desires that are right in front of you can help you to peel back the layer of snow. What are the deep things that I need to hold on to in my pursuit of fatherhood and my pursuit of following Jesus? So here's what a strong desire is, Reese. It is a loud, urgent, and feels like it has to be now desire. a lot of the times it's it's something like, Hey, I wanna I g I wanna pop back at someone and say like a funny joke because I know it's gonna get a laugh. And that funny joke may not be real nice, but I'm gonna do it anyways because I got a I got a strong desire to to be the to be the funny guy, right? You're the funny guy. You've done that before, haven't you? Only the people I love. Only the people you love. It's your love language. what about this? you s you've scrolled for a half hour on social media, but you got a strong desire to keep scrolling, so you scroll for five more minutes to escape the responsibility of cleaning up your house after the kids go to bed. you want to have another drink to take the edge off? Because you've had a couple, but the third one's the one that kind of really helps you just relax and you lie to yourself that that's what you need to ease your anxiety. So you have a strong desire to pick up. Third drink. looking at pornography after something catches your eye on a on a website that is not a pornographic website, but now all of a sudden there's a strong desire to to to lust to go after that even further. So strong desires again, they're they're loud, they're urgent, they feel like they have to be done right now. Where a deep desire is more quiet, it's more like a whisper, it's more like a long term thing that's consistently been there. And it actually more aligns with who you actually are and not just something that circumstantially has come across you. So a deep desire for many of us listeners would be to raise healthy kids who love you and love God. Like I have a a deep desire for my kids when they're twenty five to leave the house and come back and want to have a relationship with me and God. I have a deep desire to have a a marriage I actually enjoy. And lesser. So I'm I'm nine and a half years in and that deep desire is being met. Like I enjoy my life, I enjoy but that's that's something that has to be done for a lifetime. And there's strong desires that want to pull me away from that all the all the time. I have deep desire to experience purposeful work, like extremely purposeful work, building God's kingdom, changing people's lives, helping people, not just showing up and being busy and getting getting a paycheck. what about this one? Deep desire for a quiet and peaceful life. Yeah, just stuff like Sounds great. Gosh, I just want my heart rate to go down. overstimulated. Everybody shut up. I just want to be able to think. Or maybe the opposite, and you choose adventure, you travel, you get outside. But those are some some of those. So again, strong desires, they they shout at you, deep desires whisper. Strong desires come and go hourly and they can be satisfied very quickly. Yeah. But it's like an appetite where you're gonna be hungry for that same thing again. Deep desires, they remain for a whole lot of years. They're a part of who God's made you to be. There's deep satisfaction that comes slowly and often, but sometimes it takes months or years of faithfulness for it to be fully realized as that desire remains. So yeah, one last differentiator. Strong desire says this is what I want and I want it now. Deep desire asks a question. It says, Do I really what do I really want? Yeah. Because when you have a desire, you should you should be asking Reese, what do I really want? Because what's Beneath the the superficial strong desire, that reveals the deep desire. And the deep desire can be a compass to know how to act faithfully. So Good stuff. Give us an example, man, from from this last week. What's a strong desire that was shouting at you and you realize, man, maybe there's a deep desire underneath it that was being masked by that strong desire. Sure. Yeah. This is and this is one that I've had for for a long time. I don't remember what day it was this week. Could have been multiple, but long day at work. Spending time with Roman and Ellie. Roman's again, Roman's so much fun. He brings so much joy, but he he is a drainer of energy. He does not fill my energy back up, regardless of how fun or joyful he makes me. by the time we set him down, I'm I'm I'm exhausted. So I would say w an example from this week would be after Roman goes down, after Ellie and I get to hang out for a little bit. Sometimes my strongest desire is to stay up late, not just an extra hour, but several hours. Yeah. Almost get like almost have like a second life. Not where I'm a different person and make bad well, I guess you could say bad decisions, but just almost as if I were outside of space and time and just treat this like it's another it's it's another place, it's another time. I don't have twenty-four hours anymore, I have twenty-seven. And just treat it like forget all the consequences of staying up late. Just for several hours, just live in the illusion that you are or delusion that you're alone. You don't have any responsibilities. It's the no responsibilities. You yeah. It it's ma yeah, sorry, it is the responsibilities. I don't have to answer to anything. I don't have anything lined up, no list, no nothing, no work, just several hours to just be. and pursue interests. So like one this week would be I just wrote stay up late, be alone and pursue interests. for me, it could be anything from a TV show, video game, book, project something. I just take up random stuff, especially once the winter comes. learn how to draw on YouTube, stuff like that. go down the rabbit hole of learning about a particular subject or something like that that I've wanted to learn about like I once spent several weeks learning how to forge and build swords out of like a blacksmith forge. So different than me. and it was awesome. is it practical or helpful for me in life right now in any way other than just an outlet? Not really when it hits the fan, though. Yes. But whenever I get my forge, we are gonna be rocking and rolling. So yeah. I stayed up late, chose to be alone and pursue interest. That would be the strong desire. That's the immediate screaming at me. You haven't been alone. You haven't had time to yourself. and if you don't have it, that's the my favorite part. There's never any like real finishing threat in the back of my head. I just never take time to actually process what would even happen if I just chose not to indulge that. It's just it's just kind of like a or panic. Like it's this it's this or else, but or else is never like fully drawn out in my mind. It's just kind of like a well I don't want or else. So I'm gonna I'm gonna do this thing. I'm gonna stay up and play video games for interesting. I'm gonna stay up and watch a show. And the best part is if is that I won't I in certain seasons I will in certain seasons I won't, depending on how strong the desire is and w whether or not I'm in a healthy split healthy space mentally. I will at times do that. And I will wait, I won't set a time limit beforehand because I hate time limits. I'll just wait till I quote unquote feel good or feel better. which that could be forty five minutes or it could be four hours. So wildly subjective. Wildly subjective. You leave it up to your physiology, your brain, to decide when you're gonna do the thing that's gonna serve you best in the long run, which is go to bed. So I put that as the strong desire. My deep desire is to not all of these are gonna be deep desires, but if I get good sleep, I'm more patient with my family. Sure. I do I do have ADHD. One big thing is if you don't sleep enough, your impulse control is much worse. Well, if you have ADHD, your impulse control is already really rough. You don't have you don't have a great buffer between I want this and critical thinking. Scott, I mean honestly my Yeah, at the end of the day is when I get to like that's I said I wasn't gonna eat sweets and I had a sweet, you know. I would never do that at ten AM. No. But because I already am tired and so I that makes sense to me. Yep. So and a and again, ADHD really just didn't like enhances it. It's not a crutch or anything like that, but it's just kind of like a a lot of times it's explained that ADHD, one, it's on the it it's on a spectrum, so some ADHD is worse than others, some ADHD is less severe. I don't know exactly where I'm at on that, but the frequency, how often do I feel impulse control kind of at a minimum or critical thinking? It's typically why people with ADHD have a tendency towards addiction and things like that. But besides the point, if I don't go to sleep, I basically just throw kerosene on a on a brush fire, when it comes to impulse control. and your deep desires to be a man that's in control of his life. Yes. I've been asked by God to To maintain control of my body. He says he's given me the tools to do so. I have to step into that step into that. Kind of like every or not every, but kinda like most battles that you see in the Old Testament or anything God gives people. I'm giving this, but also there's like some hard work to be done on your part before you, or somet something to step into. Maybe not always hard work. I think God gives gifts without demanding something sometimes. But a lot of times it's like a blessing in disguise that I get to step into it and be a part of it. So I think that. That's a big thing. I desire to be someone who takes care of my body from a training perspective. If I don't get good sleep, I don't really want to train, or if I do, I kind of just dog it. I'm super frantic in the morning. I'm a worse employee when I don't sleep. So this strong desire bleeds into probably five different categories that I would have deep desires for. so that's what I that's what I put down for the about you. No, that's that's super practical, so thanks for being personal. Yeah. I have a a strong desire for kids to obey me. I kinda tease this out, but I wanna kinda show the the whole loop of it. We're we're in a season, Grayson's in his no stage, he's three, he's f finding out that he thinks he's the ruler of his own kingdom and he's not and he's trying to fight for control of everything. He hit you with the no the other day that I was like, my goodness. Bring the fire, my man. One of those like I was like, I'm embarrassed and I need to control my own emotions for I let my three year old just be about it. No, no, you know. Naomi's in pre K. She's exhausted when she comes home from school. It's gonna take a few weeks. So she's also like just not as obedient as she normally is. And yeah, and we're we're not sticklers. When I say obedient, like we're just we're not super harsh on our kids. Like if they if they mouth off or they don't listen, we give a second or third chance, maybe too much. But I I want my kids to be obedient. Without being afraid of you. Yeah. And in like an unhealthy way. Well, and and so with the the deep desire underneath that is I w I want my kids to trust me. Yeah, man. So I like I want my kids to look at me because if they can trust me and they know I I love them, because I keep saying, I want to keep you safe and I want you to have fun. And I just always connect. You know, if if you don't listen to me, you're either not gonna have fun or you're not gonna, you know, it's not gonna be as good a time. You don't know what you're doing. I have good things planned for you. Daddy's got good plans for you. I keep saying that. or you could get hurt. And and I keep connecting that to to God. Like we can trust God because He wants us to have fun, have a good life, wants us to be safe. So that's my deep desire. Is I want them to grow to trust me. Here's the thing, Reese, is I could get my strong desire by having them obey me, but them not trust me. Yeah, man. So that's where I have to be in like when I'm tired at the end of the day, it raising your voice. being overly harsh in a punishment when maybe you were underly like you didn't follow through earlier in the day. So you just overcompensate by just like very quickly taking something away or go with the red card because you miss the yellow. Yeah, you miss the yellow. So give them the makeup card. That's a great analogy though. I hate soccer. coming off the World Cup though, that was perfect. That's true. So so that's that was just an example I was thinking through of more than anything, I want my kids to trust me. And the fruit of that hopefully will be them being obedient. more times than not and becoming more obedient as they get older. But I cannot miss the the forest for the tree or the tree for the force or however that goes. I understand. One of those analogies. So yeah, that that would be one very practical for me. That's kind of conflicting of I have to let some of my control, desire for control die in order to establish trust. Do you feel like you've come up with the or maybe not come up with, but how do you feel like you tell the difference between the two? 'Cause I for the first several years of you mentioning this to me through probably my own lack of awareness or deep diving. You would mention deep desires and strong desires, and I'd be like, nodding my head like I understood what you were talking about, but not actually knowing what you're talking about. how do you feel like you tell the difference between the two? Are there any like signs or tells or anything like that? That's a great question. Yeah, 'cause we've had some good combos on this one. 'Cause when I discovered this, I was like, you're like, which one's strong? Which one's deep? Strong sounds good. We got to we have to ask. I gotta keep this under an hour. So we'll we'll keep we'll keep this thing rolling. the question of what do I really want? So a strong desire comes up, and if you can Hey, what do I really want here? And when I think of gosh, I just wish they would freaking listen to me. What I really want is a more peaceful life. What I really want is for people to see me as a good dad. What I really want is for my kids to trust me, you know, like all those things underneath. So There's a part of that strong desire of like, yeah, my kids need to know how to to obey their parents and their coaches and their teachers and stuff like that. but when I can take a second and say, What do I really want here? That allows me to take the most appropriate steps. And if the strong desire gets fulfilled as I pursue the deep, praise God. But if not, I have to be willing to for s forsake the strong in the process. So Let me let me frame this a little bit, we're gonna keep this rolling. Your your deep desires, they're not random. they're they're a a signature that God's given you specifically. So you have deep desires that are different than mine, and then there's some in common, like adventure or purposeful work, or to be loved or to be known, or things like that. But God's wired us with specific longings. Paying attention to them is a part of discovering of how you were made. And when you can discover who you are and how God's made you. you can know how to lead yourself and when you know yourself you lead yourself and then you can lead others. So if desires are a compass, where have you seen your deep desires revealed to you about how God has specifically made you? So I'll ask that again. Like if if there are good deep desires in you and when you take time thinking about that, how has that revealed, this was given to me because God's made me this way and I should start pursuing this or thinking about this or asking for help from others to allow me to explore this more. think I need more time with this one. I did write stuff down, but I I think that I could I could really sit in some prayer with this one. I think that I have a desire to teach and inform. And the reason I think that's a deep desire is because I think one of my strong desires is for people to get it quickly. Okay. Whatever it is I'm teaching. Yeah. Like grasp it, move on, ready to teach. Apply it. Yes, apply it. which I can become a a a jerk if that's kind of my mindset. so I think I have a deep desire to teach and inform. I think some of my other deepest desires are to lead an uncommon life. You wanna be different? I wanna be different. Like two chains? Yep. I'm different. Just like two chains. Except for a little different. Yeah, except for a little different than that too. But God made me for deep relationship. I realize that uses the word deep in there. But I have found I don't do well with lots lots of not necessarily surface level, but even just like a layer below that. If I can't really get deep with you, I have a hard time. I have a hard time, Maybe that's the wrong way of putting this. I think God maybe with a desire to know people deeply and and love them well. so I think that those are some of mine. So does it frustrate you when like that's inhibited? If that's inhibited or I find myself in a space where I have so many relationships that it just seems like we're all we're all running we're all we're all running not surface level, but whatever that layer is. Anywhere between like mid level to surface level. Sure. We're not going deep. where some people that fills them up. Yes. That's a different but they they have a strong desire just to be known by a lot of people. Yep. so I think those are some I think this is one I'll have to wrestle with. I I wrote some stuff down that was off the top of my head, but I think I'd need to wrestle with that. Do you have anything off the top of your head? The the most the easiest one for me is I have a strong desire for people to like me. And it's because I have a deep desire to to be known and loved. Mm-hmm. so yeah, I mean with I wanna say I'm a huge people pleaser, but I am an achiever and I like to earn people's love more than being given love. which is not healthy. I'm not saying that's a good thing. So yeah, like I wanna earn people's approval through my achievement. but really the the how God has wired me, 'cause I am a human being, made in his image, is Yeah, I should just be known and loved by God and by others. And it's good to be safe, seen, secure, and have people that can soothe you and help you when things are hard. So going back to the four S's we've called back to in the past. So yeah, that and then God's really wired me to build things. And I do not mean shelves or houses by any means. communities. Yeah. I am not a a tools guy, but I am I did not think I'd stumble into business. I love working with people and processes. I love setting goals. I love achieving goals right behind me. Noah's right on a whiteboard to us. And there are there's things that says wig one, two, three, which is wildly important goal. One, two, three. And I have all these different month to month goals for revenue that comes in and deals closed and projects to complete. And dude, I'll My team makes fun of me. I love a good whiteboard session. 'Cause I like mapping stuff out and executing it. Yeah. And there's a deep desire in me to build purposeful work with others, with community, for community. And so strong desires come in sometime of like I wanna set a hard goal, I want to achieve it for revenue or clients attained or you know, new employees that we can hire or whatever. but the the deep desire is just 'cause God's wired me to To want to build and cultivate. But sure. so let's do this, Reese. We have a lot more to talk about for this. So I think we want to have a part two. I'd love a part two. Because what we're going to go part two, right? Yeah, I think this will be our first two-part segment. and where we'll go next time is we'll we'll talk about like how can we like explore desires without like just blindly trusting them and it leading us off a cliff. Because what we're not saying is like you got a desire, so just trust it all, all Together and and that's that's great. I've tried it, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. You need community, you need people. So we're gonna talk about what does that look like practically. And then from there we're gonna look at like other practical things of what structures or habits can we put within us to keep the the very strong desires at bay and allow the deep desires to continue to resonate. So cold showers. Cold Yeah, dude. We're getting into all the fads next episode. But that's where we're going. I hope you guys will tune in next Next episode for that, we'll go deeper. Reese, will you give us just a challenge for this week? and then after that, close us in prayer. Yeah, man. this week, whenever you feel like a strong desire pulling at you, whether it's the phone, the drink, an escape, to take the edge off, pause for like 10 seconds and ask one question. What's the deeper desire underneath this? What do I really want? And then do one small thing toward the deep. Good. Yeah. Pursue the deep desire. All right. I'm gonna close this. Thanks, Reese. Love y'all. Jesus, thank you for this day, another day of life. A blessing that sometimes we take for granted, Lord. you're worthy of praise. Happy to be able to sit here and commune with you. Thank you for bridging that gap. Lord, I just pray over my brothers, anybody listening to this, that you would r reveal those deep desires, because they are quiet and life loves to bring a lot of noise and drown them out. So Lord, I pray you would reveal our deepest desires, the desires that come from you. Yeah. and I pray that you would give us discernment in how to interact with the strong desires, that are not always bad, but how to do things that are still honoring to you, without giving up our deepest desires. Yeah. the ones that lead us closer to a life like you live, Lord. So I pray you'd equip us for that. I pray you'd be with anybody listening to this, and that we could be like lights on a hill. We love you. Amen. Amen. All right. Appreciate y'all. Part two coming soon. Part two. Love you. Bye.