Red Light Therapy Devices: What Actually Works (And What’s a Waste)

[0:00] But when you're way above the threshold, you're increasing your ATP supply,
[0:05] scaling up with the brightness of the light. When you're below the threshold, you're not increasing your ATP supply at
[0:11] all. I wouldn't want somebody who's sitting at home to just assume that I can just take this thing and I can treat
[0:17] anything and it's going to automatically make it better. It might, but it might not.
[0:24] Welcome to regeneration effect podcast. We're talking about everything from
[0:29] ancient Chinese medicine practices for health and longevity to modern
[0:35] technology. So, we're pleased to have Lee Weinstein here again for a second
[0:40] episode talking about red light. So we already delved in the first episode
[0:45] about the mechanism of red light and also we talked about many other information most readers or listeners
[0:53] don't even hear about and I have not ever heard about it even though I've
[0:58] already studied red light somewhat for a while. Um so now we're going to talk
[1:03] about what device is good for you for your particular body and particular purpose.
[1:10] Okay. So, um let's talk about this first because this is portable, easy to use,
[1:19] and it's affordable for most people. Yes. Because if you look into the market,
[1:26] there are people selling something like this portable for $1,000 or even north
[1:33] of $1,000. Yep. And if you compare them, yours actually has way more strength than
[1:41] their product usually. Yes. There might be a couple of them that are close. So what are the the other ones that are
[1:48] I don't remember because I don't keep track of the ridiculously expensive ones. Okay. But they are still selling for
[1:54] thousands of dollars. Some of them like cost like $2,000$5,000 for $5,000. It comes in a really jeweled
[2:01] case and gold and Yes. So I know the importance for people to
[2:09] know is when you get red light therapy, you need to have certain strength of
[2:14] light, right? Certain power wattage of light to shine on your skin to make it
[2:20] effective. So the you do need a certain amount of power
[2:28] per unit area, right? So people get very wrapped up in
[2:35] seeing different u things like let's suppose one product is saying
[2:42] let's say it's a red light panel and it says 300 equivalent watts.
[2:48] What's an equivalent watt? You know well they mean it puts out as much light as a
[2:55] 300 watt incandescent bulb. Well, that's a weird thing to compare to because it's an LED. You know, maybe that's useful in
[3:03] terms of replacing light bulbs in your house, but what is that going to tell you about treatment? So, the the thing
[3:10] that's relevant is millwatts per square cimeter.
[3:16] That is uh I think the the term is irradiance,
[3:22] right? And is the word people use for that. So the sun is about 100 millatts per square
[3:31] centimeter at noon. And this
[3:37] is a little more than 100 mills per square centimeter, but it's all in the
[3:43] red. So the sun, it's all spread over the whole spectrum from ultraviolet down
[3:49] to deep infrared.
[3:54] If you went below, let's say
[4:04] a tenth of a millatt per square cm, you would be down at a level where
[4:10] there's no noticeable effect. So when we talked in the last episode about the mitochondrial chain,
[4:18] what you're doing there is the red light is providing energy to kick nitric oxide
[4:25] molecules off of binding sites where they're getting in the way.
[4:30] Well, they kick themselves off now and then. You know, statistically they're
[4:35] they're leaving and they're coming and going. So, if you are only going to kick, let's
[4:41] say, one off every five minutes, but they're kicking themselves off 20 times
[4:48] that fast, well, then your red light therapy isn't doing anything.
[4:53] But if, let's say, that molecule kicks itself off once per second and now you
[5:00] shine red light on it and it kicks it off a 100 times per second, well then you're having a huge effect. So there's
[5:06] a threshold and I don't know exactly where the threshold is. This is way
[5:11] above the threshold. Okay. So when you're way above the threshold,
[5:17] you're uh increasing your ATP supply
[5:23] at a rate that's scaling up with the brightness of the light. When you're below the threshold, you're not
[5:30] increasing your ATP supply at all. So when you're above the threshold, it's
[5:36] useful to get brighter and brighter and brighter up to a point. And there's two
[5:43] ways that you could say what that point is. One is where you're creating so much
[5:48] heat that you're causing some damage. Um this is not near that. Uh, and the
[5:55] other is where you've done the treatment for long enough in time that you've
[6:01] built up as big a reserve of ATP in the cells as is useful to have.
[6:10] And if you go longer than that, some people claim that you get
[6:17] some reducing in effectiveness. What that would come from exactly, I don't know, but it is possible.
[6:23] Okay. So the normal treatments that most medical protocols use is one sun worth
[6:30] of brightness for 10 minutes is as high as you need to go. So when those
[6:38] shoulder treatments were done, that's one sun worth of brightness of red light. So uh 100 mills per square
[6:47] centimeter uh for 10 minutes. Now, this is more like
[6:54] I think you said yours is 240 m walls per square centimeter. So, so less than five minutes you would
[7:01] get to the peak and I think 3 minutes is about three or four minutes with this is
[7:07] as long as you need to go in one treatment. So, how do you measure? Say I
[7:14] know your measurement is at 6 in distance from say either this one or
[7:20] this one, right? Uh, most of my measurements are on contact cuz these are both these are both made to be contact.
[7:26] So, do you use a specific device to measure the power?
[7:32] Yes. What do you use? I use a military laser power measuring device.
[7:38] Oh, okay. So then you just put it there. It will show you how many millow.
[7:44] Yeah. It'll just read read out. Well, it'll read out total mills and then you divide into the area.
[7:50] Okay. Okay. Because when a lot of consumers buy stuff online,
[7:56] y they do show you the power they have at 6 in distance from the
[8:04] panel or the device. Most of the time they're lying. So that's a problem to begin with.
[8:09] Okay. Uh so there really is not a good way for
[8:15] consumers uh to know from looking at the stuff
[8:22] they're seeing. First of all, are they being told the truth? And second of all, are the numbers they're being told, do
[8:28] they even matter? So, the good news is that the
[8:37] the red light panels, almost all the red light panels, the the big ones that
[8:42] people hang on the back of a door like the the ones that are branded under US
[8:48] brand names are like JV or um MTO Red Light,
[8:53] Biomax. Biomax. Um, and then there's Huga, which is an American company that rebrands,
[9:00] but they're it they're all Chinese manufactured, 100% of them. And they are
[9:06] repurposed horicultural lights. So, what these lights were originally designed to
[9:11] do was grow vegetables indoors. When they're sold for that purpose, they have a different spectrum. They have red and
[9:18] they have some blue and they have um other things. they tend to leave out the green because the reason that plants
[9:25] look green is because green is the only wavelength at which plants don't absorb
[9:31] energy really well. So if you want to make an artificial light thing for a for
[9:36] a plant, you put in ultraviolet, you put in blue, you put in red, but you leave
[9:42] out the green. Mhm. So, those panels, which could range from
[9:48] anywhere from like this long to as short as this, will have a lot of little circular
[9:53] lenses on them. Um, and they're usually maybe that thick. They have a power supply inside.
[9:59] They have fans. Yeah. That run. All of them that are made like that
[10:06] are about um 300 m per lens. Okay.
[10:13] Output. And those are all decent red light therapy devices. It doesn't matter the
[10:20] brand that you get. Huga is a perfectly decent brand. Um, if you want to pay a
[10:25] lot more money for the same thing, you can pay for a JV one.
[10:30] But the ones that are not worth getting are the ones that have a lot of tiny
[10:37] little LEDs mounted in a in a thing that doesn't have any fans in it.
[10:44] And the fact that it doesn't have any fans in it tells you it doesn't need to be cooled. And the reason it doesn't
[10:49] need to be cooled is because it doesn't put out much power. Exactly. So those ones you can also get in big
[10:58] panels for a lot less money, but they don't do much.
[11:03] So that's the main difference. And then you'll see all these belts and gloves
[11:09] and hats blankets and blankets. And those are all
[11:15] now low power devices. They might have a tiny bit of benefit, but not much.
[11:21] Mostly they have psychological benefit. You know, somebody buys this and you know there's placebo effect. So I just
[11:28] spent this money. This thing must be good for me. I feel better. Yep, it's working. So, but the the ones that are
[11:34] in a metal box that have a power cord that connects to it separately that have
[11:39] a fan and where you can see, you know, the lenses are about this big around. Yeah. Uh and there's hundreds of them.
[11:46] Those are all decent. But then this one you made, how many LED are there?
[11:55] I don't remember the number I put in this.
[12:01] It's about 50. 50. I think it's 7 by7 49.
[12:06] So, um, this the LEDs are small, but they're
[12:14] mounted on a heat sink, and this does have a fan in it, right? Cuz this dissipates quite a bit of
[12:20] power. Exactly. And, uh, so this one puts out a similar,
[12:27] actually, this puts out a higher intensity than the panels do, but this
[12:33] is meant not to treat your whole body, right? This is meant to treat an area where you have an injury or if you're uh
[12:42] I don't know if your listeners would be interested in hearing this.
[12:47] When you exercise, if you do red light treatment just after
[12:53] the exercise, the amount
[12:58] of ketones that your fat cells will release
[13:04] depends on the amount of red light they're getting. They'll release some certain amount without. So you exercise
[13:12] and now your body needs to draw some energy from its fat stores, right?
[13:18] So it signals, I need some energy from the fat stores and all your fat cells
[13:23] start releasing uh ketones, right? If you shine red light on a certain spot
[13:30] on your body, okay, those fat cells release more ketones than the other ones do. So if you wanted
[13:37] to do sculpting of your body, weight loss, well weight loss from a specific spot
[13:44] from the belly. Yeah. Like like let's say you want to lose more fat here and less fat
[13:50] somewhere else. You can actually tune that by shining red light where you want
[13:56] to lose the fat just after you exercise. Now, I think some of the products will
[14:04] advertise that you can do body sculpting with them, but what they don't tell you
[14:09] is it has to be after the exercise because if you just shine it on your body in general, your body is not
[14:17] demanding ketones at that time. So, it's not going to change the amount
[14:24] that it consumes from here. Whereas if you just did a workout in the gym and
[14:29] for 10 minutes following the workout, you shine red light on your tummy, you will reduce the fat there more than you
[14:36] reduce it in other places. But do you think if people are on ketogenic diet
[14:42] and then they use red light shining on the abdomen, would that help?
[14:49] I don't know. It's a good question. So, you're saying they push themselves into ketosis because they don't
[14:55] consume any carbohydrates? Exactly. Yeah, probably. Probably. Yeah. Okay.
[15:01] I never thought about that before. Or if people
[15:07] do cold plunges, cryos theapy. I don't know anything about that.
[15:14] And then after that, they use a red light. Does does a cold plunge or
[15:20] cryotherapy put you into ketosis? No, but it puts your body into some kind
[15:26] of metabolic a different metabolism because of the
[15:32] cryotherapy. It's like a minus 190. So I I I'd have to say I don't know.
[15:39] I've never looked into that and I don't know what the what the difference in that metabolism is. For example, I
[15:45] actually did a genetic testing of myself and I know I have a gene that's not
[15:51] ideal for energy conversion or something. I have to look into the real
[15:57] the actual name of that particular gene. So basically my genetic composition
[16:02] tells me I actually if I do cryotherapy or co-plunches it's not going to help me
[16:10] that much because I I have that particular composition of the gene for the
[16:16] um so so maybe that explains why I do
[16:22] have a hard time losing weight for a long time even though I don't I don't need to lose a lot of weight.
[16:28] Yeah. Well, you're not a big fat blob, so you've got that going for you. You don't need to lose the weight.
[16:35] But but I do have a hard time losing weight. Okay. So, so, so then I was
[16:41] thinking, you know, if if I'm not, you know, if my body is not that innately
[16:48] being able to do the say ketosis or something to push myself to lose that
[16:55] weight. But if I do the cryotherapy and then after that I do this red light,
[17:01] would that push myself to ketosis easier?
[17:07] This doesn't push you into ketosis. You have to be in ketosis already for this to help you.
[17:12] Okay. So, I don't know whether the cryotherapy or anything pushes you into ketosis. You
[17:18] said it changes the metabolism, but how you know I do know that after you do a
[17:23] workout, like you do a weightlifting workout in a gym or you do a cardio workout in a gym, you will get your uh
[17:33] your energy consumption up by enough by doing that workout that it your body
[17:40] will afterwards ask for some energy from the fat stores in the body.
[17:46] Okay? Now, maybe that's not true if you just ate five candy bars before you did the workout, but but if it's been a
[17:54] while since your last meal and you did the workout, it is true. Okay. So, then you also mentioned that
[18:00] you use a military laser device to measure the intensity.
[18:05] It that just is because the best devices for measuring optical
[18:11] power are made uh for measuring weapons systems.
[18:16] So, is that something people can get to measure it for a couple of thousand dollars? Yeah.
[18:23] Okay. And um and then is that something like you know
[18:30] there are devices on the market they say when you are at 6 in um from the device
[18:37] they get 131 mills per square cm and
[18:42] which is almost half of what yours have. Yeah that's right.
[18:47] So do you think that one would be sufficient or no?
[18:53] it is suff if if the specification is real. If they're not lying,
[18:59] um then it is sufficient to do the treatment if you do the treatment long
[19:06] enough and if you are not trying to go too deep into the tissue. So that's a
[19:12] separate issue. Oh, so remember when I said there's a threshold level at which when you're
[19:18] displacing that nitric oxide molecule in the mitochondria, it displaces itself every now and then anyway. So if you're
[19:26] only displacing it as often as it displaces itself, you're not helping anything, right?
[19:31] But as soon as you get the light intensity above that, you begin to help
[19:36] things. So, this is meant for treating specific injuries or with the eye
[19:43] adapter, it's meant for uh doing vision treatments. A lot of the people who will use this
[19:50] maybe they have rheumatoid arthritis. So, they have an immune problem in their joints. So, you want this light to be
[19:59] above the threshold in the middle of the joint. Well, the middle of the joint is
[20:04] that far in. Okay? Right. So you can see kind of the red
[20:10] profile there. This is enough to do that and the panel
[20:16] is not. So that's that's why this is brighter because this is designed for spot
[20:23] injury, you know, maybe carpal tunnel or something like that where you know you need to get into a certain depth to
[20:30] treat the thing that you're going to treat. Now, if what you're treating is right at the surface, the panels are
[20:35] fine. And so, like if if uh
[20:41] somebody wants to look younger, all right, so red light increases collagen
[20:48] production, right? And that's all in the first few millimeters of the skin,
[20:53] right? So, all the panels uh that are the the panels that have fans in them,
[21:00] not the cheap ones that don't. Um, all of those are bright enough to do that.
[21:06] So, if you stand you hang that on the back of the door and you stand in front of it and close your eyes and treat your
[21:13] face, that's going to be fine. Or, you know, you can use this thing to treat
[21:18] your face, too. So, I turn that on, my eyes close.
[21:24] At this distance, this thing is about the same intensity as a panel.
[21:30] Okay. But when it's right up to your skin, it's much more intense.
[21:36] So, do you think if I hold it very close to my face, that will be even better?
[21:43] Hold this very close to your face. You don't need to go. Well, so if I
[21:50] can't see what this looks like when it projects on my face, but this puts out a circular pattern. So at
[21:56] some distance, the circle is going to be the size of my face. Tell me when that is.
[22:02] Still bigger than your f. Oh, right. Right. Right now. Okay. So
[22:09] this is uh a little bit better than treating yourself with a panel because at that
[22:16] distance this is a little bit more intense. Okay. And I make a stand for this so that you
[22:22] can sit in front of it. You don't have to hold it. Right. I asked you that.
[22:29] You asked me about Yes. I asked you about the adapter, too. No, you didn't ask me about the stand.
[22:35] You asked me about the adapters.
[22:44] Well, I showed you the picture that you'll show me, but then you So, if you were if you were going to treat yourself, you know, you would you
[22:50] would sit at a table and just do that.
[22:55] Okay. But the panels are just as good for
[23:01] doing that. You just treat yourself a little longer. But the panels are much bigger than this. So you are also saying
[23:06] those panels are made in China with uh horiculture
[23:13] LEDs. They were originally all made for horiculture. China grows a huge amount
[23:19] of food indoors. So what LEDs does your device have? This has 50% 660
[23:29] nanometer and 50% 850 nanometer. And
[23:35] that just happens that that array was available that way. Um
[23:43] 850 nmters penetrates a little better. Not a lot better, but a little bit
[23:48] better. And originally all the red light devices that were being sold were 660
[23:55] nanometer. And then some people wanted to differentiate themselves for marketing
[24:01] purposes. So they said, well, we're going to mix in 850 nanometer and we're
[24:06] going to claim that we penetrate deeper. And it does a little bit, but it's also
[24:11] a little bit less of an efficient LED. So whether it wins in the end, I'm not sure.
[24:17] You mean if it has more A50 then the 660 is weaker? Is that what you're you mean
[24:23] it's less effective? The 660 nanometer LEDs put out more are
[24:31] more efficient at converting energy into photons. So for a certain
[24:37] number of watts in you get more light out on the 660. And for a certain number
[24:44] of watts in, you get a little less light out on the 850, but it goes a little deeper. So, you kind of win in one way
[24:51] and you lose in another. It's not it's not a big profound thing. Is 850 still visible light or it's
[24:59] infrared? It's infrared. So, you don't see it. So, basically the redness you see actually is
[25:05] between 660 and 8800 or something like that. And and I will say nobody should
[25:12] fortunately nobody does. Nobody should make a light that puts out this kind of
[25:18] power that's all 850 because you won't see it and it could be if you were
[25:25] looking right at it can burn your head. It might it might do some thermal damage to your retina. Not as bad as a laser,
[25:32] but it might do some. and you wouldn't know it because you couldn't see it and your body wouldn't react to it.
[25:39] Okay? But so it's better to have a mix. If you're going to have 850, you should have some 660 along with it so that at
[25:45] least you see it. But this one is purely 660. That's pure 660. Okay? If you're finding our conversation
[25:52] helpful, please make sure to subscribe so that you don't miss our future
[25:57] episodes. We talk about everything from stem cell science to holistic healing
[26:04] approaches all grounded in research and real results. But then um
[26:12] you said the um as long as the device has heat the fan to dissipate the heat
[26:20] they're okay. Right. That's the way that a consumer would know whether you're buying one that has
[26:26] a reasonable amount of power. Right? Because if the manufacturer didn't need to put a fan into it, then it doesn't
[26:34] put out very much power and it's not going to help you very much. So those blankets that wrap around you,
[26:41] they don't put out very much power. You know, this thing by itself puts out more
[26:46] light than two of those whole blankets put together. Okay. So then how deep can the red light
[26:55] or 660 light go through the tissue? The treatment threshold depth for this
[27:03] thing is probably 1 and a half to 2 cm.
[27:08] Okay. It it goes through further than that, but it's dim enough by then that it's
[27:14] not helping you that much. Right. But then um is is the LED putting out around 240
[27:25] matt per square meter per square square cm is the maximum LED power you can get for
[27:33] the LED bulbs or you can have even higher powered LED bulbs.
[27:39] I have a unit that puts out twice what that puts out. I actually have a unit that puts out almost three times what
[27:45] that puts out because I was thinking if we want to treat somebody say certain brain issues.
[27:51] Yeah. Or if you even just use to shine through your nose trying thinking it can go
[27:58] through the oactory nerve uh cre form plate
[28:04] to the brain. You need to travel certain distance through the tissue. This is
[28:12] probably better when it comes to so if you're trying to go really deep
[28:19] um you want to have a larger source. This is this is so a way to think about
[28:26] it is this is designed to go about as deep as it is wide.
[28:33] So if you want to go further you should have a wider aperture. Ah
[28:40] because what's happening when you first enter you get scattering. Okay. So if if the source is too pinpointed
[28:50] the fact that it's getting so diffuse as it goes in then it weakens so much is losing a lot of intensity.
[28:57] Okay. So so it's good to have an aperture that's about as wide as how deep you
[29:03] want to go. So if that's the case that means if you have a big panel Yeah. then you have a wider
[29:11] aperture. That's true. If you have a big panel, you have a very wide aperture. But then
[29:16] so there are two things that can lose you. Uh one is just the attenuation from
[29:23] the depth and the other is the attenuation from the scattering, the defocusing.
[29:29] So, you don't need to be any bigger than
[29:36] in aperture than the depth you're trying to go to. You won't gain anything by being much
[29:42] bigger than that. Okay. But if you're much smaller than that, you start to lose. Right.
[29:47] All right. So you're you're right that a big panel if it had the same intensity as this would do just as well as this
[29:55] and would go to more depth if you weren't being uh
[30:03] if if you weren't being limited by the scattering. It'll go to more depth. So if the panel is right here in front
[30:09] of me like this close y I think it can go deeper. Right. Because it's wider.
[30:15] It won't go deeper than this. No. No. Because you don't, how do I want to
[30:21] put this? You lose when the aperture is smaller than a certain amount.
[30:27] Mhm. But once you get out to that amount, you don't gain as you keep going. Oh, no.
[30:32] No. So, do you think this you gain as you keep getting brighter? Okay. But you don't gain as you get wider.
[30:39] Oh. So, what's the maximum with that? You mean depth? Uh the aperture
[30:46] this is the aperture. This is the this is the biggest aperture that can go
[30:52] you you can go so this is this has an aperture like this right which means it can go about that far in
[30:59] and give effective treatments. thing. Now, if the if you had a source as bright as this on
[31:07] a big panel, um then it could go uh
[31:16] how do I want to put this? The only reason that this can go that
[31:23] deep is because it's also bright enough. It's not just that it's wide enough, but
[31:28] it's that it's bright enough. If I turned the brightness down on this and kept the same aperture, it still
[31:35] wouldn't go as deep. Right. But what do you think if there's a panel this white but the panel is
[31:42] comprised of many if the radian
[31:47] nano thing like this if the irradiance so this
[31:52] this is designed to go this deep
[31:58] right? So, if I wanted to make a panel go twice as deep as this goes, I would
[32:04] make the panel at least twice as wide. Yeah. And I would make it twice as bright as this.
[32:10] Oh, so each one has to be twice as bright. Yeah. But then there are no panels that
[32:16] are twice as bright as this. This is twice as bright as any panel. Okay. So, tech technologically you can
[32:23] make even this light twice as bright. Uh, I'd probably have to use different
[32:29] LEDs because this one runs near its limit. But yeah, you could. But then technologically, what is the
[32:36] brightest LED you can get for this? Three times, four times.
[32:44] You can. So, these are tiny LEDs. You can get bigger LEDs that are, let's
[32:52] say, 10 times as bright, but they take up more room. So they don't wind up gaining you that
[32:59] much, right? But I think probably the limit of what could be done is maybe
[33:04] four times what this is at. Okay? Because if it's four times, then you
[33:10] make it wider. Let's say you have two, three, four. Then they can go deeper.
[33:18] Four times this. Well, but this is already half the thickness of your head. I know. you know, so if you put one on
[33:24] each side, you're done anyways. So, unless you're planning on growing a really big head,
[33:29] but the problem is what if like what you want to reach is like really deep inside
[33:36] right in the middle of your brain. And then there's nothing anywhere in your brain
[33:41] that's much longer than this from the surface. But then if you say get to this
[33:47] death in the brain from here to here, how much power do you still have left?
[33:54] You have enough to make a difference. Okay. I don't have a probe inside my brain and
[34:00] I don't plan on putting one there. So I couldn't tell you for sure how much power you have.
[34:08] And the only the only uh things that are easy for me to make measurements on is
[34:14] like I can I can shine this and I can see it coming through my hand and I can actually measure the intensity right
[34:20] here. Okay. Um but there's no real good equivalent way to do that with your brain, you
[34:26] know. So the I don't know what the translucence
[34:32] of the brain is compared to bone or compared to muscle. Right? And we haven't done any study
[34:40] there. There are some people who are concerned that red light for brain
[34:45] treatment is a bad thing. There have been demonstrated cases where it's good.
[34:51] But there was a guy at um one of the national research labs uh did a bunch of
[34:57] experiments on mice where he found that uh brain treatment
[35:03] made the mice uh less healthy in certain ways. So what do you mean less healthy means
[35:10] they will have more dementia? They I don't remember what his measurements were. I'd have to look the article up
[35:16] and send it to you. I'm just saying I don't think it's fully settled whether this is always good
[35:22] right on your brain in the cases where you're recovering from something really traumatic like a stroke there you look
[35:30] in Norman Deuts's book the brain's way of healing and you'll see experiments that have been done where it shows yes
[35:37] the red light actually does make the stroke recovery better but you're not
[35:42] starting out with a fully functional person there and measuring whether you cause anything to go wrong. It might be
[35:50] that yes, it helps the healing, but it hurts something else. It just hurts it less. So, I don't know if this is always
[35:58] a good thing to use on someone's head. There isn't enough stud. Yeah, exactly. Okay. I was more thinking
[36:06] about like say treating Parkinson's or Alzheimer's
[36:12] after stem cell treatment. It's it's a good question and I don't know and you can run the experiments and
[36:18] you can see I think you know stem cell treatments
[36:25] I think the red light will help stem cell stuff happen it will accelerate that process. Yeah, because the stem
[36:32] cell when you get the stem cell infused into your body, what stem cell does is to transfer through vesicles called
[36:39] exosomes to your own body stem cell. And then these vesicles contain
[36:44] mitochondria, the young mitochondria from the young stem cells and and and it's going through a
[36:50] biological process that you can accelerate with this. Yes. So as long as there's not some competing biological process that you don't want
[36:56] to accelerate like an infection or cancer Exactly. then you'll win, I think. But
[37:03] whether it's overall good for your brain, I don't know. But then there's also research saying if
[37:09] you shine the red light on your thyroid, it can help Hashimoto's or thyroid
[37:16] condition. It can definitely change what's going on there. And it's not obvious to me when
[37:26] like if if you have part of your endocrine system, right, and it's job is to put out a certain quantity of a
[37:33] certain chemical and stay in balance with other parts of the endocrine system. If you shine light on it and it turns
[37:40] out that the light accelerates one of its processes more than another, is that
[37:45] good? I don't know, you know. So, I think you'd have to experiment and see if you, you know,
[37:52] you're a medical professional, right? So, you're used to looking and being careful and seeing, okay, I'm going to
[37:59] try this and does this work well on this patient. That's that's a good thing to do, but I wouldn't want somebody who's
[38:06] sitting at home to just assume that I can just take this thing and I can treat anything and it's going to automatically
[38:12] make it better. It it might, but it might not, right? I never tried on thyroid yet. I
[38:19] only read about it recently like within the past month. So I haven't tried it on anybody having Hashimoto's. But the idea
[38:27] of having Hashimoto thyroid condition is some people say it's because of the toxin building up in your body. Then it
[38:34] causes autoimmune reaction killing your own thyroid cells. So if you shine the
[38:40] red light, I guess because it like we talked about previously, it speeds up
[38:47] the reaction in the cells and also helps the mitochondria. So maybe it can help
[38:53] whatever cells are remaining there to produce more thyroid normally.
[39:00] It it is often true that red light
[39:06] makes the immune system work more the way it's supposed to. Right. So,
[39:13] one of the things that this helps people with is rheumatoid arthritis.
[39:19] Yes. So, in rheumatoid arthritis, you're attacking your own joints. Yes. And when your immune system cells
[39:27] get enough red light, they stop misbehaving or at least they misbehave
[39:32] less. Mhm. There's another uh time when you can say
[39:38] that this helps the immune system. If somebody, let's suppose somebody gets occasional
[39:44] herpes outbreaks on their lip, the herpes virus hides in nerves,
[39:49] right? and it comes out of the nerves and when your system is weak.
[39:54] Yeah. Or when you didn't get enough sleep. Same thing. And people will say
[40:00] they feel a tingling before they get the blister. If you use this on your lip at the time
[40:06] you feel the tingling, the whole thing will reverse and you'll never get an outbreak. Really? I think I'm going to try that
[40:14] next time. And if you it takes uh for that it's about a 3 to five minute
[40:20] treatment and it will reverse it. So you only need to do it once. If you get it right at the beginning you
[40:26] only need to do it once. So the virus is different from the bacteria that's causing infection. Viruses don't have any mitochondria in
[40:33] them. Okay. Yes. So they can't get any energy from this. Okay. But your immune system can.
[40:39] Okay. And the bacteria can get there. There's no competition. Whereas if you sign shine this on an infection,
[40:45] the bacteria bacteria get Yeah. So, but it's it's a win-win situation when it's
[40:51] a virus that you're dealing with, but it's not a win-win when you're dealing with a with a bacteria. Okay. So, when we talk about infection,
[40:58] not using red light, actually, we have to be specific that it's for bacterial
[41:03] infection. Bacterial infection, not viral infection. Viral infection. Yes. Okay. Viral infection. If your body is going
[41:10] to heal from that virus, this will probably help you speed the healing. And
[41:16] you know, similar to herpes, the shingles virus, which is part of the same family, um if somebody's got a
[41:23] painful shingles outbreak on their torso, and they stand in front of one of
[41:28] the red light panel things, you might speed the healing of that by a factor of 10.
[41:35] It's it can be really really profound. Okay. Uh and and same with a herpes
[41:43] outbreak that's already happened, you can speed the healing. But the amazing thing to me is that you can prevent the
[41:49] outbreak from ever being there because you get that initial tingle
[41:54] if you can shining the light triggers your system to start its healing process
[42:00] before it would have normally kicked in. Okay. I I'll next time I'll try that
[42:07] because I get that maybe once every two years. So, never thought about that.
[42:13] Didn't know that. Yeah. But I do know like I read that it will help Hashimoto's and then there are a
[42:20] lot of especially women suffering from Hashimoto's. Yeah. I I don't have experience with that.
[42:26] And that is autoimmune. And then like you said rheumatoid autoimmune too. Yep.
[42:31] Okay. So, now we learned how to choose the right device.
[42:38] And what other things do you want to tell the audience?
[42:44] Um, well, one of the things that I use the handheld one for is as a first aid
[42:51] thing. And, uh, I haven't seen any people advertising this, although I
[42:57] think some of the companies that make them know. I certainly do. Let's suppose you're getting something
[43:04] from under a table and you accidentally hit your head on the table, you know, and you know you're going to get a bruise.
[43:10] Okay? Right? If you know where you hit yourself and you shine this for 3
[43:15] minutes, you will not get the bruise because what will happen is the under
[43:21] the intense light all of the capill capillaries that broke
[43:27] that would normally let blood out are going to uh rest renit themselves almost
[43:35] instantly. Oh, and so likewise, if you pinched your
[43:40] finger in between the handles of a pair of scissors or something and you knew you were going to get a blood blister,
[43:45] if you shine the light on it for three minutes, you won't get the blood blister. What about uh you burn yourself?
[43:53] Well, that is an interesting question. I have done this experiment, so I will tell you
[44:01] the result is very good and the process is very painful. Very painful.
[44:07] Yes. So, I burned the back of one of my fingers on the muffler of my chainsaw
[44:13] when I was cutting up a tree that fell in the yard. And I thought,
[44:19] "Okay, this is going to be a nasty burn. I've never experimented with red light on a burn. I'm going to run inside, grab
[44:25] this thing, and experiment." And 30 seconds later, I had the thing in my hand and I I put the light on from like
[44:32] this far away and it hurt like hell. And I turned the light off and it didn't hurt. I turned the light on and it hurt.
[44:40] And I thought, well, it's not an infection, but there is something going on. Maybe
[44:47] it's that the healing process is happening so fast that it's putting a lot of signals out on the nerves.
[44:53] I have a solution for that. But so anyway, I just decided I'm gonna just grin and bear it. And I I didn't put it
[45:00] right in contact, but I was holding it about this far away. And
[45:05] there was already a blister there. Yeah. Because usually after that you would get a blister. Yeah. And because
[45:10] you say you can prevent from the blister from forming. So So the blister
[45:17] stopped inflating. Okay. Started decreasing. Okay. In one minute or less, it was
[45:24] totally flat. And I'm thinking, that is freaking
[45:29] amazing. And and it still hurt. I kept shining it for another couple of minutes.
[45:36] And then I went, you know, three or four hours and the blister did not reform.
[45:42] M and I treated it again 3 hours later for a few minutes and it hurt but not nearly
[45:49] as much with the light shining on it. And then I treated again 3 hours later and it didn't hurt.
[45:56] And instead of the blister uh being all white and puffy and then
[46:04] there being a big wad of dead skin eventually and having to pop that and
[46:09] get the uh fluid out of it, it it was a kind of a darkish red. Um,
[46:18] and it just stayed dark red and slowly faded over days and then there was some
[46:24] dead skin at the top that came off. New skin was growing from underneath.
[46:29] So, it helped enormously like I Yes. But it was very painful. So, I don't
[46:36] like to tell anybody to do anything that's going to hurt and it's so I I
[46:42] have not put that in the instruction manual. Okay. For I have a solution for that. Oh, all right. So there's an herbal
[46:48] ointment we use in Chinese medicine. After you burn, you have burn, you just
[46:54] apply that directly because even like you don't do red light, it hurts right after you burn yourself.
[46:59] Yeah, but it hurts a lot more red light. So if that's the case, I believe because that herbal oil can reduce the pain.
[47:06] Oh, it might. So maybe if you combine that with a red light.
[47:11] I don't burn myself very often and I'm not going to do it just to do experiment with it, but If you happen to get a burn
[47:17] sometime, try it out. Okay. All right. That's what I'm going to try next time. So, I'm going to try the herpes when I feel the tingling and
[47:25] then I'm going to try the burn if I burn my hopefully I have enough time to gather all these stuff to apply at the
[47:32] same time. Okay. Want to hear one more interesting one? Yes. Okay. So
[47:38] every once in a while, almost everybody probably accidentally gets a paper cut, you know, so they hurt, they sting,
[47:47] right? And they can take a few days to heal. Yes. If you get a paper cut, it's a very
[47:54] clean cut. Um, and if you put a piece of tape on it, clear tape, that's taping the cut
[48:02] closed, and you treat it for 3 minutes. And then six hours later, another three minutes.
[48:09] And then the next morning, another three minutes, take the tape off and it's all healed. Oh, okay.
[48:16] So, does it mean if you have any skin scrape or anything? Scrapes are totally different because
[48:21] scrapes, a whole bunch of tissue has been removed and a bunch of tissue needs to regenerate. paper cut
[48:27] or if you had a surgical cut from surgery,
[48:33] the stitches, I have a feeling it would help that quite a bit, but I don't have access to
[48:40] people who've just had surgery. And the other thing is that usually there's a
[48:45] bandage there and the bandage doesn't let the light through, right? So
[48:52] uh there are these uh dermatological bandages now
[48:59] that are clear. Right. Right. Surgical sight bandages that are actually clear. If you had that kind of
[49:06] a bandage and you could get the light right on there, I would definitely treat that every six hours for a few minutes.
[49:14] Okay. And I think that would he that would speed the healing process a lot. Okay.
[49:20] And also next time I'm going to next month I'm going to try on somebody with ear problem.
[49:25] With an ear problem? Yeah. What kind of ear problem? Actually it's autoimmune. Do you ear?
[49:30] Yes. Meniers. Oh okay. So I'm going to try that. Don't know. Try it out. See what
[49:36] happens. Okay. It has been a great pleasure uh learning a lot from Lee and uh we can
[49:44] have more episodes coming talking about many other things he knows. So very nice
[49:50] having you here. Thank you for having me.