Update on the Polystyrene Recycling Alliance (PSRA)

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Welcome to Daddy's Podcast. This is the Redefining
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Plastics Podcast. Welcome to the Redefining Plastics
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Podcast. My name is Justin Riney. We are going
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to talk the Polystyrene Recycling Alliance today.
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My favorite topic with some of my favorite people
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in the industry. So we got Richard Shaw with
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America Styrenics. We got Joe Gribb with EFP.
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And Aaron Haas of the Plastics Industry Association,
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all returning guests, which is a record for this
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show. But thank you all for joining. Why don't
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we start with our fearless leader, Richard. Give
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a quick update on who you are and what you're
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doing with PSRA. All right, Justin, good morning.
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Thank you for having me on your podcast again.
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Yeah, so Richard Shaw, I lead the sustainability
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function for America's Styronix. and I've had
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the pleasure of serving as chair of the Polystyrene
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Recycling Alliance here in its first year and
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very happy to kind of take note of where we are
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as we close out this year and reflect upon all
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the things that we've accomplished and I look
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forward to handing off the chair to you Justin
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on the next year as we roll into 2026. You know
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it's been a fantastic year and I was just kind
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of thinking about some of the big takeaways.
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our value chain alliance, which is comprised
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of people who are in the Cyrenex value chain,
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whether they make monomer, they make resin, they
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convert it into wonderful products for downstream
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customers or recyclers, you name it, have come
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together and we've done a number of things to
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fundamentally improve the sustainability and
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recycling of all types of polystyrenes. One of
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those things is we've gotten a lot smarter and
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we know a whole lot more about this material
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and its recycling story. And with help from independent
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third -party experts, we understand now what
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recycling access looks for consumers. And fundamentally,
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it's a better story than you'd be led to believe,
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where over 100 million Americans can recycle
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at least one or more different types of polystyrene.
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And we've also learned a lot more about end markets
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that take post -use polystyrene and repurpose
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it in the new products. And the takeaway there
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is experts have helped us understand that when
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it comes to EPS, expanded polystyrene, In their
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words, in the U .S. and Canada, there is a robust
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network of end markets that want this material
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put back into new products. And for rigid quality
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styrene, there's a solid foundation of end markets
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as well. So very encouraging. And then as you
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know, we've been really involved in working with
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stakeholders around North America to stand up
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and support circularity projects that are going
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to improve the collection and recycling. we can
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collect this material and connect it to the MRX.
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Several high -profile projects, whether in Colorado,
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Baltimore, Nashville, Tennessee, Mexico City,
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you name it. A lot of good work being done there.
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And then lastly, we've been involved in a number
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of conversations with people who have shared
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interests. I'm thinking of NGOs and others who
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fundamentally want to see materials collected,
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recycled, don't want to see it. I end up in the
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environment, in the landfill. We share that value.
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And we've been engaged in a lot of good conversations
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with those folks to kind of work on areas of
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kind of common ground. We're making progress
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there as well. So there you go. That's very expansive.
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Joe, why don't you give a little introduction
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to yourself, your company and what you're doing
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and maybe why you joined the Polystyrene Recycling
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Alliance. Absolutely. I'm Joe Grieve. I'm the
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Director of Sustainability for EFP. EFP is a
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manufacturer of EPS in natural fiber insulation
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and protective packaging. We have six plants
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across five different states. Myself, my background's
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in chemical engineering and have had a career,
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even a number of different startups and technologies.
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EFP... joined the Polystyrene Recycling Alliance
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to push forward the narrative of that this material
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really is recyclable. I come at it from a unique
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perspective in that I started a company called
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NatureCole back in 2019, specifically to displace
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EPS in temperature current control shipping and
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neutral fiber based insulation. I ended up merging
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with ESP in 2022, and that began my journey into
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EPS. Me, like many people, had a perception that,
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hey, this material is not recyclable. It just
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goes in the trash. Boy, did I forget an education.
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And so I come to it from that perspective that
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this material is very different than what I thought
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it was. I think the PSRA has been working really
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hard this year to get the word out. As we're
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out on the road talking to people, talking to
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customers, talking to NGOs, a very common reaction
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is, oh wow, I never knew. Yeah, I had no idea
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you were doing that. Oh my God, you're kidding
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me. And with, under Richard's leadership, You
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know, we've gotten some really interesting meetings.
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Appliance Manufacturers Association, Home Appliance
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Manufacturers Association, had a very good meeting
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with them. We attended their annual meeting in
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spring. And once again, these folks desperately
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want to keep EPS in the mix of their packaging
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solutions because of the performance, because
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of the cost, because of what it does. And this
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association is all about trying to help make
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that happen by engaging with NGOs, by engaging
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with regulators, and by frankly challenging the
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membership to stand up recycling operations at
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each of their plants, to stand up recycling operations
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and making sure that we start to incorporate
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recycled content into our products. We at EFP
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are taking that very seriously. We are pushing
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like heck to have a high level of recycled content
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in our EPS products go follow. Yeah, I've always,
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it's interesting because we're small organizations,
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right? Like EPSIA is a great industry association
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that supports the EPS transport packaging groups
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and they're just small. And they've got great
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data, great information. They do awesome work
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for the industry. Just not a lot of people know
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about it. And there's not a lot of people that
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are aware, specifically legislators. Like you
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talked about the shock that you hear in people's
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voices when you tell them like the recycle rate
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for EPS transport packaging and what's going
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on in that industry and how proactive you all
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have been. And they just kind of look at you
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like, oh, I had no idea. They had no clue you
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guys were doing all that. It's been fun. It's
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been a fun journey. Yeah, I think one of the
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goals there with the regulators, just giving
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the material a fair shake. Let's not go into
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a decision on what is the best environmentally
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friendly packaging solution with a lot of preconceived
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ideas. Let's go in and look at the facts. I had
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yesterday a very positive meeting with the folks
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from Oregon D to Department of Environmental
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Quality. And they are material neutral. It's,
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hey, show me the facts. Let's let the data speak.
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Let's let lifecycle assessments speak. And we
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can make our decision based on real data. and
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what the best overall solution is for the environment.
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And not every time, nope, technology is perfect
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for every application. A lot of times the EPS
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is the right environmental solution. Yeah. So
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when we started this whole thing, I had very
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little experience with the Plastics Industry
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Association. So the Polystyrene Recycling Alliance
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is within the plastics industry. organization
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and we've been very impressed and very Excited
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about the support that we received and one of
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those the biggest people Involved in that whole
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process is Erin Haas Erin Haas is not on camera
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today because I did a very bad job of Explaining
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what it was that we were doing. It's my fault.
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So she's gonna have a glamour shot Every time
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she talks and I'm very excited about what that
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glamour shots gonna look like But Erin, why don't
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you introduce yourself, Plastics Industry Association,
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and kind of what you guys do. Awesome. Thanks,
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Justin. I sent you a glamour headshot so you
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can... Excellent. You can promptly post that.
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Well, thanks. Thanks for having me again. Again,
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Erin, I'm based here in Washington, D .C. in
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the Plastics Industry Association. We are the
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purpose -driven organization that supports the
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entire plastic supply chain. So our members are
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700 plus. And like you and Joe mentioned earlier,
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a lot of our member companies are third and fourth
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generation plastic manufacturers, recyclers,
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molders, equipment suppliers, whatever it runs
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the gamut, we represent those members. And part
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of my charge at Plastics, I work on my government
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affairs team, is to support PSRA. And we're doing
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great work. It is tough out there with different
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materials. Legislators, regulators, people just
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want to ban things instead of understanding why
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something is needed. Yes, it can be recycled.
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Yes, there are end markets for it. And part of
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our charge is to show that. And, you know, it's
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not easy, but we have a great team. Again, Richard
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has been unbelievable as a leader for this group.
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Joe has been, Joe has been steadfast, you know,
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as his lieutenant. I mean, it's not, it's not
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an easy subject because a lot, like you said,
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it's kind of niche in a way. A lot of, I would
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say just from speaking from like a regulatory
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or legislative hat, people don't really, they
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just know that their TV comes in some sort of
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transport packaging. They don't really understand
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if they were to ban that, what would you replace
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it with? And you know, it is our job. to advance
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sustainability, keep plastic out of the environment,
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keep things away from landfills, and just promote
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the industry. And that's pretty much what I do
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every day in the different political work that
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I do at Plastics. And it's a great mission. So
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thanks for having me again. And thanks for the
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support. Honestly, none of this stuff gets done
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unless we have people driving it. And I'll say
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this. When we kicked this off, so Richard and
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I were, we talked about this probably two years
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ago when we first started discussing, hey, we
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really need an industry effort to make this happen.
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And in my wildest dreams, I did not think we
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would have the impact that we did in 2025. I
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thought we were going to get things done. I really
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thought we had the motivation, we had the need.
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within the industry to get things done, but I
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truly believe we got more done this year than
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I ever thought possible. And so I really want
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to take some time at the beginning of this to
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talk about what it is we've done in 25, why it's
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important, and what we think we're going to get
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out of it. So I want to start with Richard. I
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know you kind of gave some of the projects that
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we've done and all of that stuff, but from your
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perspective, and what are the highlights of what
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we've done, and what do we think it's gonna do
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for us as a polystyrene industry? Can you see
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me? I see a still photo. You've just become just
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like Erin. You have a glamour shot. Well, unfortunately,
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I don't have the glamour shot like hers. No,
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no, it'll be fine once it uploads. You don't
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have to worry about it. Yeah, so, I mean, if
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you think about it, you know, fundamentally,
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I mean... Again, it's the coming together of
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the value chain in this space to recognize that
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there's an important issue here, which is improving
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the sustainability of the materials we manufacture.
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That's just an important thing to accomplish
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for just several basic reasons. It's the right
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thing to do. We expect it of ourselves. Our customers
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expect it of us. Society expects it. And there
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are some technical challenges, but they are all
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solvable. They're not solvable individually,
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but collectively, we can bring to bear the resources
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and the knowledge to solve them. And we're demonstrating
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that we can do that. So I would say, again, getting
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formed as an alliance, working together collaboratively,
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both within our industry and then reaching out
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and engaging others. in other industries, in
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the legislative halls, and with a lot of these
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NGOs that are genuinely concerned about these
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issues, and coming together to find common ground
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and advance real practical solutions. Joe made
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the point that as he goes around and he shares
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with people kind of what his company is doing
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to recycle EPS, that there's a lot of people
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who are just shocked, just surprised. And we
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continue to find that today. There is such a,
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you know, just I guess a lack of understanding.
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You get kind of these these sound bites that
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kind of get put out there about, you know, polystyrene
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not being recyclable and people just kind of
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take that to the bank. But nothing can be further
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from the truth. And so the really exciting part
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about all of this is we know that there is a
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very clear roadmap to get to where we want to
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go, which is seeing all of our formats. considered
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widely recyclable. EPS transport packaging is
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in the lead in that advancement. And the other
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formats have a path to follow as well. So just
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really happy to see our group come together,
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making progress. We got a lot more work to do.
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And Justin, I'm excited with your leadership
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next year that we're going to continue to accelerate
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the pace. I got big shoes to fill. I think everybody
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on this call will say that I think your doggedness
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is probably the best way for me to describe it.
00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:14.559
The effort that you put into this and just the
00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:17.379
focus that you had in this area has really driven
00:15:17.379 --> 00:15:21.360
us and it's going to be a lot to fill on my end.
00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:26.820
But I want to jump to Joe here. So Richard was
00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:29.120
talking about getting to the 60%, the widely
00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:32.559
recycled. Why is that important? Why does that
00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:35.740
matter? Like, what does that do for the industry?
00:15:36.659 --> 00:15:39.419
Why are we even doing this? What is the purpose
00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:43.299
of the Polystyrene Recycling Alliance? I think
00:15:43.299 --> 00:15:45.779
everybody on this call understands why that is,
00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:47.919
but I want to make sure that anybody that's listening
00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:50.480
to this understands why it is we're doing what
00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:55.320
we're doing. Well, I think the idea is to harvest
00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:59.299
the environmental benefit of EPS, frankly. I
00:15:59.299 --> 00:16:01.840
mean, if you want to take the very top level.
00:16:04.129 --> 00:16:08.029
providing access to recycling infrastructure
00:16:08.029 --> 00:16:12.409
so that EPS can do its job, which it does very,
00:16:12.409 --> 00:16:16.649
very well, and provide the environmental benefits
00:16:16.649 --> 00:16:23.750
that it can. A lot of the recycling of EPS today
00:16:23.750 --> 00:16:27.950
is done business to business. So folks like the
00:16:27.950 --> 00:16:31.090
big box stores will go out and make an appliance
00:16:31.090 --> 00:16:34.379
delivery. They'll take the materials, the corrugates,
00:16:34.580 --> 00:16:39.100
the plastic, the EPS, they'll collect it up and
00:16:39.100 --> 00:16:42.740
recycle all the materials, including the EPS.
00:16:42.860 --> 00:16:44.620
They'll bring it back to a master distribution
00:16:44.620 --> 00:16:49.740
center and identify the EPS and then sell it
00:16:49.740 --> 00:16:54.759
to a recycler and it goes right back into the
00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:58.820
ecosystem in a very, very tight loop, actually
00:16:58.820 --> 00:17:05.019
a model. of a deep loop of a recycling of material.
00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:12.680
By expanding that access beyond the current infrastructure,
00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:16.880
that will allow then consumers who are receiving
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:21.660
packages that dropped off at their house to have
00:17:21.660 --> 00:17:26.380
a convenient way to take the EPS that they're
00:17:26.380 --> 00:17:31.509
receiving. and get it properly recycled. Currently,
00:17:32.609 --> 00:17:36.230
the Turro Recovery Facilities, or MRFs, in general,
00:17:36.369 --> 00:17:41.170
are not taking EPS. That's on the move. There
00:17:41.170 --> 00:17:43.970
are facilities that are doing that, and they're
00:17:43.970 --> 00:17:50.690
doing an extremely good job of recycling the
00:17:50.690 --> 00:17:56.329
EPS at several MRFs. But that needs to be...
00:17:56.299 --> 00:18:00.259
that needs to be expanded. In the interim, expanding
00:18:00.259 --> 00:18:04.839
this access through drop -off locations to that
00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:07.779
goal, 60 % of the population is very important.
00:18:08.140 --> 00:18:13.319
With that 60%, we are now termed widely recyclable.
00:18:13.660 --> 00:18:16.940
And that then gives the people who are using
00:18:16.940 --> 00:18:20.000
EPS today, the manufacturers of appliances, furniture,
00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:22.079
et cetera, gives them a permission structure
00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:26.009
to continue using that material. Yeah. So not
00:18:26.009 --> 00:18:28.990
only is it the right thing to do, it's the right
00:18:28.990 --> 00:18:33.450
business thing to do because we're reusing material
00:18:33.450 --> 00:18:36.450
that's already out there and it's a valuable
00:18:36.450 --> 00:18:40.349
commodity. So you were talking about EPS being
00:18:40.349 --> 00:18:45.549
collected B2B. Rigid is also very similar. There
00:18:45.549 --> 00:18:48.450
are medical facilities, you got test trays, everything
00:18:48.450 --> 00:18:51.940
else. It's all picked up B2B. There's just not
00:18:51.940 --> 00:18:54.880
a lot of polystyrene packaging out there when
00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:57.519
you look at just relative to other plastics.
00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:01.779
So we're about 3 % of the packaging market, just
00:19:01.779 --> 00:19:04.720
in general, polystyrene. But when you look at
00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:08.359
it, not just polymers, it's even less than that.
00:19:08.579 --> 00:19:12.660
So if you factor in glass, metal, paper, we're
00:19:12.660 --> 00:19:18.180
a very small piece. And so you look at organizations
00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:22.059
that are trying to make a difference for reducing
00:19:22.059 --> 00:19:25.799
waste in the environment, they look at polystyrene,
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:27.920
they say, well, we can get rid of that, but then
00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:30.880
they don't realize just what little impact that
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:34.380
actually has. So I wanted to bring in Aaron on
00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:37.099
this because I think it's important to understand
00:19:37.099 --> 00:19:39.980
from like an advocacy regulatory perspective
00:19:39.980 --> 00:19:45.039
why the 60 % is important. So Aaron, do you have
00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:47.809
some thoughts on that? Yeah, sure. I mean, there's
00:19:47.809 --> 00:19:53.049
a couple of reasons. I mean, given EPR's kind
00:19:53.049 --> 00:19:57.509
of sweeping takeover in many states in the West,
00:19:57.890 --> 00:20:00.410
the new mandates essentially say, look, if you
00:20:00.410 --> 00:20:03.750
want to sell your product here in state X, there
00:20:03.750 --> 00:20:07.430
needs to be a minimum recycle content percentage.
00:20:07.769 --> 00:20:12.170
So if you can't hit that, then I think you're
00:20:12.170 --> 00:20:14.170
gonna have a tough time doing business, excuse
00:20:14.170 --> 00:20:19.480
me, in certain places. So it's vital, A, you
00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:22.059
have to adhere to what the statute says, but
00:20:22.059 --> 00:20:26.539
B, as we know, it is better for circularity.
00:20:27.940 --> 00:20:29.940
It's simple as that. And I think the problem
00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:32.180
is what lawmakers don't realize when they're
00:20:32.180 --> 00:20:36.380
banning products, it's counterintuitive to them,
00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:39.640
but they're hurting the recycling ability of
00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:43.980
materials. to be bailed into complete, you know,
00:20:44.180 --> 00:20:47.019
finality and circularity. And I don't even know
00:20:47.019 --> 00:20:48.859
that they think, they don't even realize that
00:20:48.859 --> 00:20:52.099
they're doing it. That that's the effect that
00:20:52.099 --> 00:20:55.460
it has, if you're saying, we can't have plastic
00:20:55.460 --> 00:20:58.140
film in X, we can't have water, we can't have
00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:02.859
PET water bottles, we can't have, you know, and...
00:21:02.859 --> 00:21:05.700
It's... It's well -intentioned, right? It is,
00:21:05.740 --> 00:21:07.019
it is well -intentioned. Everybody's trying to
00:21:07.019 --> 00:21:10.150
do the right thing. Yeah. Indeed, and... I think
00:21:10.150 --> 00:21:14.430
that's the frustrating part, but it's... That's
00:21:14.430 --> 00:21:17.609
why data and facts are important. They are. And
00:21:17.609 --> 00:21:20.829
I think when we look at what the Polystyrene
00:21:20.829 --> 00:21:24.170
Recycling Alliance has done, we focused very
00:21:24.170 --> 00:21:28.509
early on that we had to own our story. We had
00:21:28.509 --> 00:21:32.430
to own the data. We had to really focus on what
00:21:32.430 --> 00:21:34.569
is the recycling access? Because when we first
00:21:34.569 --> 00:21:37.910
started this whole endeavor, we had no idea.
00:21:38.089 --> 00:21:40.630
what the recycling access rate was, because nobody
00:21:40.630 --> 00:21:43.589
had done a study on it. And then when we did
00:21:43.589 --> 00:21:48.410
it, we came up with the 105 million Americans,
00:21:48.630 --> 00:21:53.069
nearly one third, have the ability to recycle
00:21:53.069 --> 00:21:56.089
one or more items. That's much higher than I
00:21:56.089 --> 00:21:58.470
thought it was going to be. Complete transparency.
00:21:59.049 --> 00:22:00.930
I thought it was going to be much, much lower
00:22:00.930 --> 00:22:03.009
than that. So we had a better starting point
00:22:03.009 --> 00:22:06.660
than we thought we did. And then as we've gone
00:22:06.660 --> 00:22:09.099
through this and we've learned and we've talked
00:22:09.099 --> 00:22:12.180
to NGOs, we've talked to regulators, we figured
00:22:12.180 --> 00:22:16.000
out that end markets are a huge deal. So then
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:18.140
we went out and we did an end market study. So
00:22:18.140 --> 00:22:20.700
now we know where the end markets are for our
00:22:20.700 --> 00:22:24.259
materials. So now the goal is, how do we connect
00:22:24.259 --> 00:22:27.900
what's being collected to where it can be reused?
00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:32.579
And the EPS industry is a great example of how
00:22:32.579 --> 00:22:36.599
that's happening today. It's circular. The end
00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:40.460
markets are where it's being collected in many
00:22:40.460 --> 00:22:44.019
cases. So it's a really great story. But then
00:22:44.019 --> 00:22:46.559
we've got to continue to do that for foam food
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:51.440
service. How do we increase our rigid polystyrene
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:54.579
packaging? But then also, how do we increase
00:22:54.579 --> 00:22:57.519
EPS? EPS is a great story. EPS transport packaging.
00:22:57.900 --> 00:23:01.440
But we want to do more of it. We want to be the
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.549
gold standard. for recycling when you look at
00:23:04.549 --> 00:23:07.970
polymers. And we want to continue to grow that.
00:23:08.990 --> 00:23:13.650
So, go ahead, Joe. It's interesting that this
00:23:13.650 --> 00:23:16.789
kind of data gathering and fact -based approach
00:23:16.789 --> 00:23:19.509
is actually starting to have a very significant
00:23:19.509 --> 00:23:22.549
impact on the folks that we're talking to. The
00:23:22.549 --> 00:23:26.250
folks like the US Plastics Pack, who actually
00:23:26.250 --> 00:23:30.049
had DPS on the list of problematic and unnecessary
00:23:30.049 --> 00:23:36.329
materials, really opened up and is very carefully
00:23:36.329 --> 00:23:42.430
listening to data and facts about what's actually
00:23:42.430 --> 00:23:46.970
happening with EPS and polystyrene in general,
00:23:47.569 --> 00:23:50.990
which is different than, I think, some experience
00:23:50.990 --> 00:23:55.230
that we've had in the past. There's been new
00:23:55.230 --> 00:23:59.470
leadership there, very open to the conversation.
00:24:00.329 --> 00:24:04.509
Actually, some of the members of Polystyrene
00:24:04.509 --> 00:24:07.890
Recycling Alliance, Justin and myself in particular,
00:24:08.250 --> 00:24:10.930
are members of the U .S. Plastics FAC, and I've
00:24:10.930 --> 00:24:15.029
been nothing but encouraged on what I'm seeing
00:24:15.029 --> 00:24:18.349
and the interactions that I've been having with
00:24:18.349 --> 00:24:24.730
them throughout late 2024 and all of 2025. So,
00:24:25.470 --> 00:24:28.410
quick disclaimer. Once again, this podcast has
00:24:28.410 --> 00:24:30.960
nothing to do with my day job. This is my personal
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:35.819
podcast, but yes, in my day job, I am within
00:24:35.819 --> 00:24:38.880
the US Plastics Pack. And I got to give a quick
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:42.579
shout out to Jonathan Quinn. Great leadership
00:24:42.579 --> 00:24:46.960
there. He's been highly engaged. He's working
00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:50.119
with the industry. He's pulling in groups that
00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:52.900
I never thought possible. The fact that the ACC
00:24:52.900 --> 00:24:57.599
joined the US Plastics Pack, it shocks me that
00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:00.710
they... decided to go that direction. But that
00:25:00.710 --> 00:25:03.230
shows the kind of influence that the US Plastics
00:25:03.230 --> 00:25:07.109
Pact has. It's making change. It's driving change
00:25:07.109 --> 00:25:11.230
and it's making circularity the focus. And it
00:25:11.230 --> 00:25:14.190
should be. Let's be clear. It really should be.
00:25:14.289 --> 00:25:17.589
Our products need to have a good story and they
00:25:17.589 --> 00:25:22.069
need to be circular. So I just wanted to throw
00:25:22.069 --> 00:25:24.970
that out real quick. But Richard, when you look
00:25:24.970 --> 00:25:29.319
at 2026 and beyond, What's there left to do?
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:32.380
What do we need to do as an organization? Where
00:25:32.380 --> 00:25:37.759
do we go next? Your thoughts on what we need
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:42.779
to do. That's good. Thank you for that. I would
00:25:42.779 --> 00:25:46.200
say a lot of it is going to be more of the same.
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:49.079
We've made a lot of progress, but we've got to
00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:53.119
continue to move the ball forward on getting
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:56.769
our materials collected. and then connected to
00:25:56.769 --> 00:25:58.950
the end markets that want them as feedstocks.
00:25:58.950 --> 00:26:01.950
That is the path that we need to accelerate because
00:26:01.950 --> 00:26:05.730
that drives higher recycling and all of the things
00:26:05.730 --> 00:26:08.609
that come with it that we all want. So we've
00:26:08.609 --> 00:26:12.269
got to stay laser focused on that. And then I
00:26:12.269 --> 00:26:14.789
think just as we continue to do that and demonstrate
00:26:14.789 --> 00:26:17.430
that, we've got to continue engaging in these
00:26:17.430 --> 00:26:20.710
conversations with stakeholders to make sure
00:26:21.760 --> 00:26:25.559
that polystyrene gets a fair shake when it comes
00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:28.900
to kind of how it's considered, how it's classified,
00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:32.400
how it's assessed fees and these various regulatory
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:36.680
schemes, you know, to support recycling. I think
00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:39.220
you said earlier, I forget who it was, but it
00:26:39.220 --> 00:26:41.779
was all about kind of aligning around the facts.
00:26:41.900 --> 00:26:44.559
And so we've got to continue to bring those facts
00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:47.660
forward, make sure that they are considered,
00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:51.309
acknowledged, and utilized in the process. So
00:26:51.309 --> 00:26:52.930
really more of the same. We've got to continue
00:26:52.930 --> 00:26:56.710
driving much greater circularity and then continue
00:26:56.710 --> 00:26:59.569
to make sure that we can help stakeholders understand
00:26:59.569 --> 00:27:03.490
our material for what it is. Yeah. Joe, your
00:27:03.490 --> 00:27:10.309
thoughts? Yeah. Going forward, it's, I think,
00:27:11.329 --> 00:27:14.410
more of the same and expanding. I think the private
00:27:14.410 --> 00:27:17.369
site we've made over this past year has been
00:27:17.369 --> 00:27:23.920
exemplary. The getting the word out is starting
00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:28.099
to have an effect. I think the regulators are
00:27:28.099 --> 00:27:30.940
listening more carefully than they were, I think,
00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:35.920
at the end of 2024. Companies who are using EPS
00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:40.279
are listening very carefully to the recycling
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:45.339
story. Speaking twice about how they're going
00:27:45.339 --> 00:27:49.650
forward with the with packaging materials, with
00:27:49.650 --> 00:27:51.769
EPS being the material that they want to continue
00:27:51.769 --> 00:27:54.269
to use, and they're the largest part they're
00:27:54.269 --> 00:27:58.789
going to continue to use. And then the continuation
00:27:58.789 --> 00:28:02.970
of the projects, the demonstration projects that
00:28:02.970 --> 00:28:08.230
PSRA has been funding. These are exemplary local
00:28:08.230 --> 00:28:13.809
projects that are influencing the recycling infrastructure
00:28:13.809 --> 00:28:17.869
of individual areas. but which have the ability,
00:28:18.089 --> 00:28:23.470
if the model works, to expand regionally or even
00:28:23.470 --> 00:28:27.190
nationally. Those sorts of impacts are potentially
00:28:27.190 --> 00:28:30.309
very large and very long lasting. Yeah, I look
00:28:30.309 --> 00:28:33.869
at Circular Colorado specifically. I don't want
00:28:33.869 --> 00:28:37.869
to pick out favorites in the projects that we've
00:28:37.869 --> 00:28:41.569
funded so far, but the first one that we did
00:28:41.569 --> 00:28:45.819
is it really is a regional at least statewide,
00:28:46.039 --> 00:28:49.160
but then the surrounding states are going to
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:52.900
be impacted as well for collection of expanded
00:28:52.900 --> 00:28:56.920
polystyrene. And I look at that, if we can prove
00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:00.940
that that works, how easily that is to replicate.
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:03.220
And that easy is the wrong word because there's
00:29:03.220 --> 00:29:06.779
a lot that goes into building what Circular Colorado
00:29:06.779 --> 00:29:11.480
built prior to even us becoming involved. And
00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:15.299
so... If we can show at a national scale that
00:29:15.299 --> 00:29:19.519
look at this example and see the people that
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:22.900
are on the ground doing it, let's replicate that
00:29:22.900 --> 00:29:25.799
in Tennessee. Let's replicate that in Illinois.
00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:28.779
Let's replicate that all across the country because
00:29:28.779 --> 00:29:32.559
that is the way to make this circular. And we've
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:35.000
got other projects that we're working on and
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:39.000
we're going to solve things there too. And we
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:41.420
can do that on a city by city basis, but if we
00:29:41.420 --> 00:29:44.720
can get state buy -in in the way that Circular
00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:48.759
Colorado has, and in working with the state of
00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:52.220
Colorado and getting funding and really being
00:29:52.220 --> 00:29:55.799
engaged in that process, I think we can solve
00:29:55.799 --> 00:29:59.799
EPS, rigid polystyrene recycling issues, and
00:29:59.799 --> 00:30:03.440
just plastics in general, films, everything else
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:05.819
that right now is considered hard to recycle.
00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:10.049
That's how we solve this. And it's public -private
00:30:10.049 --> 00:30:13.109
partnerships. It's trade groups working together.
00:30:13.670 --> 00:30:16.970
And it's not just our trade group. It's EPSIA.
00:30:17.529 --> 00:30:21.210
It's plastics. It's flexible film recycling alliance.
00:30:21.410 --> 00:30:24.150
Everybody pulling in the same direction is how
00:30:24.150 --> 00:30:28.109
we solve for all this. So, Aaron, I know you
00:30:28.109 --> 00:30:35.210
mentioned a little bit ago EPR. But EPR has become
00:30:35.210 --> 00:30:39.720
much more of a talking point. From my customer
00:30:39.720 --> 00:30:42.380
base, let me just say it from that perspective
00:30:42.380 --> 00:30:45.359
I know that people at our level have been talking
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:48.000
about this for years But I think it's just now
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:50.720
starting to hit with some of our customers now
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:54.019
that they're getting charged in Oregon How do
00:30:54.019 --> 00:30:56.839
you think that's gonna change? How packaging
00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:01.740
is done in the u .s. I know that's a loaded question,
00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:05.039
but Just from your perspective. What do you think
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:08.140
that's gonna do to the marketplace? Um, well
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:12.460
Couple of things. Lawsuits notwithstanding. I
00:31:12.460 --> 00:31:15.339
think people have to be more creative. And I
00:31:15.339 --> 00:31:18.099
think to your point about working together, different
00:31:18.099 --> 00:31:21.299
associations pulling and rowing in the same direction.
00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:25.000
I think it's really important that we coalesce
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.200
around ideas and percentages and all the big
00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:31.700
dates and rates and talk of source reduction
00:31:31.700 --> 00:31:34.660
and talk and get together. and unite on some
00:31:34.660 --> 00:31:37.680
things because there's kind of a patchwork across
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:40.140
the country, right? What the version in Washington
00:31:40.140 --> 00:31:43.180
state, the VPR is slightly different than the
00:31:43.180 --> 00:31:46.000
version in Maryland and then the version in Minnesota.
00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:48.299
So it just, it creates, it makes it difficult
00:31:48.299 --> 00:31:50.299
for producers to answer your question, Justin,
00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:52.839
and it's hard. They have to comply, right? So
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:56.140
it costs businesses a lot of money. And I hate
00:31:56.140 --> 00:31:57.559
to admit, but I think at the end of the day,
00:31:57.579 --> 00:32:01.500
that was kind of the plan by a lot of... a lot
00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:03.779
of folks was, look, let's make it really difficult
00:32:03.779 --> 00:32:05.960
for folks and then they just won't make plastic
00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:11.980
anymore. And that's not the solution. So you
00:32:11.980 --> 00:32:17.019
got to be creative and pragmatic. Yeah. So Richard,
00:32:17.099 --> 00:32:19.940
I know you'd mentioned that EPR was going to
00:32:19.940 --> 00:32:26.200
be a big focus point for PSRA in 26. What are
00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:30.680
we going to do? to engage on EPR? Like, what's
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:36.059
the thought process? How do we view ourselves
00:32:36.059 --> 00:32:38.740
in trying to make a difference in that space?
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:41.960
Mm -hmm. Well, thank you for that. I come back
00:32:41.960 --> 00:32:44.480
to the two points that I raised earlier. I think
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:49.539
it's about first, well, these are jointly, but
00:32:49.539 --> 00:32:53.779
one of them is... Making sure that our materials
00:32:53.779 --> 00:32:56.440
get classified as recyclable and on the list
00:32:56.440 --> 00:33:00.220
of recyclables because they are recyclable They're
00:33:00.220 --> 00:33:02.319
being recycled today and they're on the path
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:04.740
to much greater recycling and we can demonstrate
00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:08.339
that prove that and and continue to Accelerate
00:33:08.339 --> 00:33:11.099
that so we need to make sure they get included
00:33:11.099 --> 00:33:14.099
on the list of recyclables and as we do that
00:33:14.099 --> 00:33:17.930
we need to make sure that they are considered
00:33:17.930 --> 00:33:21.529
in a transparent and fair light along with other
00:33:21.529 --> 00:33:25.150
materials such that whatever fees get assigned
00:33:25.150 --> 00:33:28.930
to them to support that circularity effort is
00:33:28.930 --> 00:33:33.630
based on real data that is accurate and is fair
00:33:33.630 --> 00:33:38.569
and not based upon perceptions that are not grounded
00:33:38.569 --> 00:33:41.589
in science and data. So it's those two things.
00:33:41.769 --> 00:33:44.109
making sure that they are considered recyclable
00:33:44.109 --> 00:33:46.589
and making sure that fees for them are assessed
00:33:46.589 --> 00:33:50.049
thoughtfully, accurately and fairly. Joe, anything
00:33:50.049 --> 00:33:54.690
to add to that? Yeah, I think that also PSRA
00:33:54.690 --> 00:33:57.329
trying to encourage the ecosystem to boost up
00:33:57.329 --> 00:34:01.589
the rate of recycling in whatever way possible.
00:34:03.130 --> 00:34:06.990
The collection for consumers is one, but also
00:34:06.990 --> 00:34:12.349
trying to influence the commercial side. to increase
00:34:12.349 --> 00:34:17.449
the recycling infrastructure so that the rates
00:34:17.449 --> 00:34:22.449
of actual EPS recycling continue to improve.
00:34:23.309 --> 00:34:28.050
Yeah. So we've talked a lot about improving polystyrene.
00:34:28.309 --> 00:34:31.769
And the one thing that I get a lot on the internet
00:34:31.769 --> 00:34:34.110
is, well, you have a conflict of interest because
00:34:34.110 --> 00:34:37.989
you work for the polystyrene industry. You make
00:34:37.989 --> 00:34:42.909
money based on sales, all that good stuff. Why
00:34:42.909 --> 00:34:46.769
polystyrene? Why are we focused on solving for
00:34:46.769 --> 00:34:48.949
polystyrene? I want to talk about the benefits
00:34:48.949 --> 00:34:52.429
of our products and why it is that it's important
00:34:52.429 --> 00:34:55.809
for us to save our materials. So I'm going to
00:34:55.809 --> 00:34:59.769
start with Richard. From your perspective, why
00:34:59.769 --> 00:35:05.429
polystyrene? Why are we doing all of this? That's
00:35:05.429 --> 00:35:07.429
a great question. And when you step back and
00:35:07.429 --> 00:35:09.389
look at products that are in the market today,
00:35:09.630 --> 00:35:13.030
they are largely there because they are the best
00:35:13.030 --> 00:35:17.230
product for a given application, whether it's
00:35:17.230 --> 00:35:19.730
plastic, whether it's paper, aluminum, glass,
00:35:19.969 --> 00:35:23.090
you name it, that's what exists today. And that
00:35:23.090 --> 00:35:25.590
these products are typically very highly engineered
00:35:25.590 --> 00:35:29.210
to serve a particular purpose. Polystyrene, as
00:35:29.210 --> 00:35:31.849
we know, is used in a wide variety of applications.
00:35:32.190 --> 00:35:36.849
It is used in packaging. It's also used in medical
00:35:36.849 --> 00:35:39.630
applications. It's used in appliances. It's used
00:35:39.630 --> 00:35:44.590
in just a variety of products that make people's
00:35:44.590 --> 00:35:50.210
lives better. And so, as it is considered in
00:35:50.210 --> 00:35:53.150
the context of this packaging kind of focus,
00:35:53.730 --> 00:35:57.289
we want to make sure that it is reviewed through
00:35:57.289 --> 00:36:01.030
the lens of accurate science and data. It's the
00:36:01.030 --> 00:36:04.090
best product. We talk about transport pack. Transport
00:36:04.090 --> 00:36:07.090
packaging, EPS transport packaging is the best
00:36:07.090 --> 00:36:09.630
product for the application that it fulfills
00:36:09.630 --> 00:36:12.269
and down. And this is coming from someone like
00:36:12.269 --> 00:36:14.369
myself who was in the paper industry for 30 years.
00:36:14.630 --> 00:36:17.769
I love paper. I absolutely do. But I love plastic
00:36:17.769 --> 00:36:20.469
too. And aluminum and glass and all these other
00:36:20.469 --> 00:36:22.730
things. And I think that it's important that
00:36:22.730 --> 00:36:25.650
we continue to be very thoughtful and accurate
00:36:25.650 --> 00:36:29.139
about how we think about materials. because these
00:36:29.139 --> 00:36:31.239
materials collectively make our lives better.
00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:33.980
Think about just plastic broadly and what it's
00:36:33.980 --> 00:36:37.239
done for food packaging. Go into a grocery store,
00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:40.539
look at all of the food that's there, whether
00:36:40.539 --> 00:36:44.199
it's fresh, whether it's frozen. Plastic packaging
00:36:44.199 --> 00:36:47.159
is incredible. So is paper. So are other things.
00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:50.219
So again, this is all about making sure that
00:36:50.219 --> 00:36:52.059
these products that make our lives better are
00:36:52.059 --> 00:36:55.239
very thoughtfully considered. as we all continue
00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:57.559
working together to make sure that post -use
00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:00.760
materials get collected and repurposed. Joe,
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:08.699
why EPS? Yeah, the challenge with EPS is on the
00:37:08.699 --> 00:37:11.940
collection and the recycling. We're working hard
00:37:11.940 --> 00:37:14.579
to improve that. From a performance standpoint,
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:18.059
it's essentially unbeatable. The material is
00:37:18.059 --> 00:37:22.460
about 95 % air, so there's very little material
00:37:22.460 --> 00:37:27.579
that is needed in order to do its job. A big
00:37:27.579 --> 00:37:32.320
focus of many of these packaging EPR laws is
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:35.159
reduction of the weight of material that's being
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:39.380
used for packaging. can't do much better than
00:37:39.380 --> 00:37:43.260
EPS in terms of weight versus performance. The
00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:48.099
cost structure is phenomenal. Again, it's 95
00:37:48.099 --> 00:37:52.300
% air, very cost effective. It can be molded
00:37:52.300 --> 00:37:56.059
very readily, therefore designing the material
00:37:56.059 --> 00:38:02.400
to do a job. really well is a very straightforward
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:05.460
thing to do. And then finally, some of the alternatives
00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:11.159
are not as pretty as one thinks. You know, the
00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:13.320
drum beat out there a lot of times that I hear
00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:15.300
is, oh well, just put it in chord, we'll put
00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:18.679
it in chord, we'll put it in chord. You know,
00:38:19.300 --> 00:38:22.510
paper is great material. But the recycling of
00:38:22.510 --> 00:38:27.050
paper is not all butterflies and unicorns. Paper
00:38:27.050 --> 00:38:31.389
industry is the sixth largest polluter in the
00:38:31.389 --> 00:38:36.809
US of air and water. The recycling of paper generates
00:38:36.809 --> 00:38:41.389
65 % of the water pollution, 25 % of the air
00:38:41.389 --> 00:38:44.909
pollution as virgin paper. The material going
00:38:44.909 --> 00:38:48.289
into the atmosphere and water is really nasty,
00:38:48.869 --> 00:38:54.079
cadmium lead, dioxin. You name it. And then in
00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:58.599
terms of just resource use, there is no other
00:38:58.599 --> 00:39:02.360
industry that uses more water than the paper
00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:06.099
industry. And so that's both virgin and recycling.
00:39:07.420 --> 00:39:09.500
One of the numbers that blew me away was that
00:39:09.500 --> 00:39:13.739
it takes two and a half gallons of water to make
00:39:13.739 --> 00:39:17.360
one single eight and a half by 11 piece of paper.
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:20.949
Just undefeatable. You know, you have to you
00:39:20.949 --> 00:39:23.170
have to consider all the alternatives as you're
00:39:23.170 --> 00:39:28.030
looking to move from a When you're trying to
00:39:28.030 --> 00:39:30.730
choose which packaging material is is best for
00:39:30.730 --> 00:39:33.510
a particular application. No one material is
00:39:33.510 --> 00:39:38.630
best for all of them including EPS or And there
00:39:38.630 --> 00:39:40.670
are studies out there that show if you move from
00:39:40.670 --> 00:39:43.210
EPS to other packaging materials you can get
00:39:43.210 --> 00:39:46.909
a pretty major increase in damage and returns
00:39:46.909 --> 00:39:52.070
and if you're getting a damaged washing machine
00:39:52.070 --> 00:39:55.690
that's going to counteract any kind of packaging
00:39:55.690 --> 00:39:58.989
change you make. Yeah, from an environment, not
00:39:58.989 --> 00:40:01.030
only from a cost perspective, but from an environmental
00:40:01.030 --> 00:40:03.269
perspective as well. And I'm told, I haven't
00:40:03.269 --> 00:40:05.409
seen the report, I'm told that there's an ISTA
00:40:05.409 --> 00:40:08.570
report coming out that will show that going from
00:40:08.570 --> 00:40:12.030
EPS to other packaging materials results in a
00:40:12.030 --> 00:40:15.989
damage rate increase of about 30%. And that's
00:40:15.989 --> 00:40:21.710
a material. That's not just like one to two percent.
00:40:22.269 --> 00:40:26.449
And so 30 % more damaged TVs and all of the e
00:40:26.449 --> 00:40:29.869
-waste within a TV. That's not good. That's not
00:40:29.869 --> 00:40:32.269
good for anybody. Very large environmental impact.
00:40:32.769 --> 00:40:35.889
Yeah. So Aaron, I know you're not necessarily
00:40:35.889 --> 00:40:37.889
in the polystyrene industry, but you've been
00:40:37.889 --> 00:40:41.449
hanging around us for a while now. From your
00:40:41.449 --> 00:40:44.210
perspective, why is polystyrene important to
00:40:44.210 --> 00:40:46.880
save? There's many reasons that I don't want
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:48.860
to be, you know, echoing Richard, but a little
00:40:48.860 --> 00:40:50.619
bit. And you know, I came from the automotive
00:40:50.619 --> 00:40:53.139
space before I came to plastic. So, you know,
00:40:53.139 --> 00:40:56.519
I would say interior trim for a car, bumpers,
00:40:56.679 --> 00:40:59.380
seat cushions for safety. There's so many other
00:40:59.380 --> 00:41:03.300
common applications. You think about the construction
00:41:03.300 --> 00:41:07.280
industry, right? Insulation, walls, roofs, et
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:10.579
cetera. I mean, these are all great things and
00:41:10.579 --> 00:41:12.519
I don't know how you replace it. And I think
00:41:12.519 --> 00:41:15.099
that's... part of the conversation that has to
00:41:15.099 --> 00:41:20.500
exist. And that's our mission. But all those
00:41:20.500 --> 00:41:22.639
are great things. And kind of like what Joe said,
00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:25.699
you have to be greenhouse gas cognizant this
00:41:25.699 --> 00:41:30.019
day and age. And this product is great out there
00:41:30.019 --> 00:41:32.199
for that reason. We're not using gallons and
00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:35.780
gallons of water. And that should make Enviro's
00:41:35.780 --> 00:41:39.179
pretty happy. You would think. But at the same
00:41:39.179 --> 00:41:42.420
time, as we know, and what we've talked about
00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:47.639
in the past is The compromise and letting our
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:51.860
better angels dictate what we do sometimes gets
00:41:51.860 --> 00:41:54.219
in the way of a good headline and a good story
00:41:54.219 --> 00:41:58.420
and good PR when you're talking with an NGO.
00:41:59.260 --> 00:42:02.739
And it's difficult, right? Because in many cases
00:42:02.739 --> 00:42:05.179
they do want to do the right thing and they do
00:42:05.179 --> 00:42:07.360
want to make the world a better place. And I
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:09.599
think everybody on this call wants the same.
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:12.239
We all want... the world to be a better place.
00:42:12.300 --> 00:42:15.219
We all want our materials to be recycled more.
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:18.219
And I don't think anybody on this call is saying
00:42:18.219 --> 00:42:20.360
that recycling is a panacea that's going to solve
00:42:20.360 --> 00:42:22.519
all problems for plastics. That's not what we're
00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:25.000
talking about. But what we are talking about
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.900
is making an impact to reduce the environmental
00:42:29.900 --> 00:42:32.480
impact of our products. And that should be the
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:35.739
goal of every industry. It should be the goal
00:42:35.739 --> 00:42:39.769
of paper, glass, aluminum, any packaging. we
00:42:39.769 --> 00:42:42.690
should be looking at how we reduce the impact
00:42:42.690 --> 00:42:44.090
that we have on the environment. And that's not
00:42:44.090 --> 00:42:46.710
lip service, that's just fact. Because I've got
00:42:46.710 --> 00:42:50.329
two young kids and I want to leave this world
00:42:50.329 --> 00:42:53.429
a better place than when I came into it. And
00:42:53.429 --> 00:42:57.849
so what I'm choosing to do is make recycling
00:42:57.849 --> 00:43:01.309
one of my main focuses. But I do want to reduce
00:43:01.309 --> 00:43:05.590
and I do want to reuse where we can. But I think
00:43:05.590 --> 00:43:08.130
what the Polystyrene Recycling Alliance is doing
00:43:08.130 --> 00:43:11.579
is commendable. and it's something that we need
00:43:11.579 --> 00:43:14.219
more support from the industry. We've got great
00:43:14.219 --> 00:43:20.199
support so far, but we need more members. We
00:43:20.199 --> 00:43:22.599
need bigger budgets to make a bigger impact.
00:43:23.179 --> 00:43:27.039
So once you give an elevator pitch to any kind
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:29.659
of organization that's out there that's listening
00:43:29.659 --> 00:43:34.719
that's involved in the polystyrene value chain
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:39.599
in any way, shape, or form, what is it that should
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:42.880
drive them to join the polyserine recycling lines?
00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:47.059
Yeah, you know, no one company can do this alone.
00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:52.159
It's in every company's enlightened self -interest
00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:57.679
to join and put your shoulder against the rock
00:43:57.679 --> 00:44:02.019
and start pushing along with the rest of us.
00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:07.380
It's no news headline that plastics in general
00:44:07.550 --> 00:44:13.510
And polystyrene, maybe in particular, is under
00:44:13.510 --> 00:44:18.610
the microscope. And in some cases, even under
00:44:18.610 --> 00:44:23.530
attack. And we need to be pushing back as a unit.
00:44:24.670 --> 00:44:29.269
Myself, my company can't do it alone. No one
00:44:29.269 --> 00:44:33.670
company can do it alone. But together, together
00:44:33.670 --> 00:44:38.500
we can influence NGOs. Together, we can talk
00:44:38.500 --> 00:44:41.059
to regulators in our states, in other states,
00:44:41.539 --> 00:44:47.760
and make sure that the polystyrene is getting
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:49.860
their shape. We're not asking for special treatment,
00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:54.480
just want a fair shape. Together, we can talk
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:56.360
to our customers and our customers' customers
00:44:56.360 --> 00:44:59.739
and work with them to increase recycling of all
00:44:59.739 --> 00:45:03.909
polystyrene. no one company is going to do it
00:45:03.909 --> 00:45:06.409
alone. And it's in your light and self -interest
00:45:06.409 --> 00:45:11.449
to join this organization and start working with
00:45:11.449 --> 00:45:14.250
the rest of us to make positive change. Yeah.
00:45:14.250 --> 00:45:17.409
So I'll just add to what Joe has said there.
00:45:17.789 --> 00:45:19.750
If the sustainability of the products that you
00:45:19.750 --> 00:45:21.489
make for your customers is important to you,
00:45:22.210 --> 00:45:26.570
then you should seriously consider joining PSRA
00:45:26.570 --> 00:45:29.489
to help advance the improvements that we all
00:45:29.489 --> 00:45:31.909
want to achieve. And one other thing I will point.
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:35.559
out is that we have learned a lot more in the
00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:40.099
last year by working together than we knew before
00:45:40.099 --> 00:45:44.659
when we were kind of in separate silos. And an
00:45:44.659 --> 00:45:48.460
example of that is that in the EPS industry,
00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:53.039
there are manufacturers that will use a wide
00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:56.320
variety of EPS for their feedstocks, including
00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:59.340
clean food service and food packaging. Not all
00:45:59.340 --> 00:46:02.019
of them, but some of them. And we're learning
00:46:02.019 --> 00:46:04.880
that that is opening doors to recyclability for
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:08.199
some of those products that previously didn't
00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:10.440
have as many recycling options. So we're learning
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:13.239
all kinds of things about how we can work together
00:46:13.239 --> 00:46:15.960
to advance the circularity and sustainability
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:18.219
of all of our products. I would say from a political
00:46:18.219 --> 00:46:23.000
lens, Justin, when you come at a policy issue
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:26.519
with legislators, staff, regulatory bodies, governors,
00:46:26.860 --> 00:46:30.480
NGOs, ENGOs, I've worked for all the above and
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:34.639
against. If you have a united front and you're
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:37.239
working towards a goal together, you're usually
00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:39.760
going to be more successful when you're coming
00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:43.420
at it with a larger team. I know it's so basic,
00:46:43.460 --> 00:46:45.719
but it's true. You're united in message, you're
00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:49.679
united in goal, and you charge forward. And then,
00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:53.440
you win on the merits and on the data, and it's...
00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:57.739
If you have 30 people saying the same thing versus
00:46:57.739 --> 00:47:01.059
a patchwork of 10 different companies saying
00:47:01.059 --> 00:47:02.679
different things at different times, you're not
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:06.460
going to be as successful. So united you stand.
00:47:07.619 --> 00:47:10.199
I think that's a good advertisement for plastics
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:14.980
too. So not just polystyrene, but plastics is
00:47:14.980 --> 00:47:18.460
doing that for all plastics. And so that's a
00:47:18.460 --> 00:47:21.820
good call for people to join plastics as well.
00:47:24.090 --> 00:47:27.289
So I've been saying this for a long time. Everybody
00:47:27.289 --> 00:47:30.349
within this industry has the ability to do exactly
00:47:30.349 --> 00:47:33.210
what I'm doing, but even better. Like I'm no
00:47:33.210 --> 00:47:36.110
communications expert, but I decided I wanted
00:47:36.110 --> 00:47:38.349
to start pushing back against misinformation
00:47:38.349 --> 00:47:41.769
and I wanted to do a podcast to highlight recycling
00:47:41.769 --> 00:47:44.769
and how we can actually make a difference and
00:47:44.769 --> 00:47:47.829
make it better. Everybody in this industry has
00:47:47.829 --> 00:47:50.269
that ability. Everybody can get out there and
00:47:50.269 --> 00:47:54.130
talk to legislators. and they can talk to their
00:47:54.130 --> 00:47:56.329
neighbors about our products and why they're
00:47:56.329 --> 00:47:58.489
important. And the why is the most important
00:47:58.489 --> 00:48:03.570
part, in my opinion. And so, to echo Aaron's
00:48:03.570 --> 00:48:08.150
point, that's all great on a personal one -on
00:48:08.150 --> 00:48:11.369
-one, but when we're talking about making changes
00:48:11.369 --> 00:48:14.230
in legislation, we're talking about making changes
00:48:14.230 --> 00:48:17.650
in EPR, changing hearts and minds, we really
00:48:17.650 --> 00:48:21.179
need that united front. So if you are in the
00:48:21.179 --> 00:48:23.059
polystyrene industry and you're not involved
00:48:23.059 --> 00:48:26.519
today, you're not in the battle. Battle is probably
00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:30.460
a strong word, but if you're not here and you're
00:48:30.460 --> 00:48:32.920
not at the table, you're going to be on the menu.
00:48:33.400 --> 00:48:38.420
And we would really love to have a bigger coalition.
00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:42.840
Not only does that give us more money to put
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:45.179
into infrastructure projects to actually make
00:48:45.179 --> 00:48:49.179
this happen. but it gives us more voices that
00:48:49.179 --> 00:48:52.980
can, to Richard's point, highlight things that
00:48:52.980 --> 00:48:54.980
we weren't even aware of that were going on out
00:48:54.980 --> 00:48:56.679
there. The more people that we have at the table
00:48:56.679 --> 00:49:00.000
and the more diverse viewpoints that we have,
00:49:00.739 --> 00:49:02.860
the better off we're going to be as an organization.
00:49:03.079 --> 00:49:06.360
So I would highly encourage anybody that's listening
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:10.699
to this to join the PSRA if you're in polystyrene.
00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:13.639
If you're not in polystyrene and you're not a
00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:16.639
member of Plastics, That's also a good call too.
00:49:17.139 --> 00:49:21.199
That's something to really drive people and to
00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:23.420
drive the outcomes that we know are the best
00:49:23.420 --> 00:49:27.719
solutions for the environment. So we talked about
00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:29.880
a lot so far today. I want to give everybody
00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:35.079
on the call one, maybe a minute, minute and a
00:49:35.079 --> 00:49:38.480
half to kind of wrap it up. Like where are your
00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:40.900
heads at? I want to start with Joe and we'll
00:49:40.900 --> 00:49:45.579
go from there. Yeah, you know, I'm encouraged
00:49:45.579 --> 00:49:52.599
by what the industry is doing. There is a headwind
00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:56.159
in terms of EPR laws, but we are addressing those.
00:49:56.300 --> 00:50:00.059
And I think in general, we're going to be in
00:50:00.059 --> 00:50:04.880
good shape. I'm encouraged by what I see from
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:09.219
this alliance and other alliances in terms of
00:50:09.219 --> 00:50:12.320
people working together to try to change the
00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:17.099
narrative. And I'm encouraged by the associations
00:50:17.099 --> 00:50:21.900
who are large users of our materials, the American
00:50:21.900 --> 00:50:25.599
Home Furnishings Alliance, the Association of
00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:29.059
Home Appliance Manufacturers. Those organizations
00:50:29.059 --> 00:50:36.460
very much want to keep EPS as a viable choice.
00:50:36.940 --> 00:50:40.820
And this organization is going to help ensure
00:50:40.820 --> 00:50:43.599
that that is indeed the case going forward. Awesome.
00:50:43.659 --> 00:50:45.820
Thanks again, Justin, for having us and letting
00:50:45.820 --> 00:50:49.300
us sing the gospel. I think just going forward,
00:50:49.380 --> 00:50:53.139
I think we are a group which we are putting grand
00:50:53.139 --> 00:50:56.960
dollars and activation projects in towns and
00:50:56.960 --> 00:50:59.860
cities in America. So we're not just talking,
00:51:00.099 --> 00:51:02.239
we're actually doing. And I think that's what
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:06.519
kind of makes us different than a lot of other
00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:09.239
groups in the country right now. So I think that's
00:51:09.239 --> 00:51:12.059
the value add that we bring. Not only the subject
00:51:12.059 --> 00:51:14.320
matter experts, the companies, we're working
00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:19.019
with cities and towns, and it's a great stakeholder
00:51:19.019 --> 00:51:23.380
lesson that you can do things together when you
00:51:23.380 --> 00:51:26.659
have a great leadership like Richard and Joe,
00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:29.400
and we're all doing it together. And I hate to
00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:32.719
be all kumbaya, but it's true. So it's nice to
00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:35.920
have action and not just words. So I'm happy
00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:41.019
about that. reiterate something I said earlier,
00:51:41.820 --> 00:51:44.980
Richard, thank you. Thank you for everything
00:51:44.980 --> 00:51:48.400
you've done year one. I think everybody on this
00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:50.539
call and everybody in the organization will agree
00:51:50.539 --> 00:51:54.000
that your leadership has been highly influential
00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:57.920
in the success that we've seen year one. But
00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:00.219
I also want to let you give your one minute wrap
00:52:00.219 --> 00:52:03.719
up. I wanted to throw that in first though. Hey,
00:52:03.719 --> 00:52:05.519
thank you for that. But you're just going to
00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:08.380
throw it right back at you. All right. You, Justin.
00:52:09.139 --> 00:52:13.119
Joe, Aaron, I mean we are a team and you know
00:52:13.119 --> 00:52:15.139
the thing when you think about where we're at
00:52:15.139 --> 00:52:20.219
right now is we have a track record as an alliance
00:52:20.219 --> 00:52:24.039
of moving forward to enable greater circularity
00:52:24.039 --> 00:52:27.179
of our materials. There was already a track record
00:52:27.179 --> 00:52:29.440
in place just from all the individual efforts
00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:32.059
of all the companies who've been out there. We
00:52:32.059 --> 00:52:36.539
weren't starting at ground zero. But we've definitely
00:52:36.539 --> 00:52:39.119
helped to accelerate the pace. And I think the
00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:42.400
future is very bright. We have and see a pathway
00:52:42.400 --> 00:52:45.980
to widely recyclable status for all formats of
00:52:45.980 --> 00:52:50.199
polished styrene in due course. And DPS transport
00:52:50.199 --> 00:52:53.599
packaging is right out in front. Others have
00:52:53.599 --> 00:52:57.800
a clear path to follow. So I would just say look.
00:52:57.929 --> 00:53:00.349
We've done it, we've proved that we can do it.
00:53:00.670 --> 00:53:03.050
Let's continue to turn the court here next year,
00:53:03.230 --> 00:53:05.190
Justin, looking at you as you take the baton
00:53:05.190 --> 00:53:07.909
and continue to lead the organization going forward.
00:53:08.030 --> 00:53:11.409
And I'm really excited and optimistic about 2026.
00:53:12.349 --> 00:53:14.250
Justin, we look forward to your insight and leadership
00:53:14.250 --> 00:53:18.670
going forward. I honestly, I couldn't say it
00:53:18.670 --> 00:53:20.610
any better than Richard did, so I've got nothing
00:53:20.610 --> 00:53:25.679
to add. But thank you all. for jumping on today.
00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:30.199
Thank you to the polystyrene industry for coming
00:53:30.199 --> 00:53:33.699
together and showing that, hey, we're going to
00:53:33.699 --> 00:53:36.559
put our money where our mouth is. And if you
00:53:36.559 --> 00:53:40.519
are in the industry and you want to join, reach
00:53:40.519 --> 00:53:42.800
out to any one of us. We're very accessible.
00:53:43.159 --> 00:53:45.739
We would love to have conversation with you.
00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:50.079
And then for the group on the call and for myself,
00:53:50.300 --> 00:53:52.619
Justin Reinie, this has been the Redefining Plastics
00:53:52.619 --> 00:53:55.110
podcast. Thank you all very much and have a great
00:53:55.110 --> 00:53:55.269
night.