How to Make Plastic Recycling Efficient and Scalable

WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.099
Welcome to Daddy's Podcast This is the redefining
00:00:06.099 --> 00:00:10.500
plastics podcast Welcome to the redefining plastics
00:00:10.500 --> 00:00:13.539
podcast. My name is Justin Riney. We've got Sam
00:00:13.539 --> 00:00:16.500
with us today It's good to have the co -host
00:00:16.500 --> 00:00:20.320
back and then we've got my most favorite passionate
00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:23.940
human on earth Adam Hill the I'm gonna call you
00:00:23.940 --> 00:00:29.320
the founder our co -founder and Brain leader
00:00:30.859 --> 00:00:36.060
chief idea man for Brave. And excited to have
00:00:36.060 --> 00:00:40.460
Adam on. First off though, we've got our new
00:00:40.460 --> 00:00:42.880
format. We're gonna do our Two Truths and a Lie,
00:00:42.939 --> 00:00:45.780
and Adam gets to play too. And we're gonna look
00:00:45.780 --> 00:00:48.659
through it. Sam's got it for us. So Sam, floor
00:00:48.659 --> 00:00:51.899
is yours. Well let me explain the rules to anyone
00:00:51.899 --> 00:00:56.579
who isn't an avid listener. So we have Two Truths
00:00:56.579 --> 00:01:00.479
and a Lie. And the categories are pop culture,
00:01:00.619 --> 00:01:03.560
plastics, and then just regular news. So I'm
00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:05.959
going to tell you three facts. Two of them are
00:01:05.959 --> 00:01:09.959
true. One is a lie. I'm going to say it now.
00:01:09.980 --> 00:01:11.739
And then you can think about it the entire episode.
00:01:11.780 --> 00:01:13.859
And then we'll go over it at the end. And I'm
00:01:13.859 --> 00:01:15.680
going to guess now, though, just for the record.
00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:18.099
I know you do. But you can always read my face.
00:01:18.739 --> 00:01:25.500
So whatever. OK. So here we go. First one. Taylor
00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:27.879
Swift's The Tortured Poets Department just became
00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:30.640
the first album in Spotify history to hit five
00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:35.060
billion streams in under six months. Second fact,
00:01:35.340 --> 00:01:37.620
a team in Japan discovered a strain of bacteria
00:01:37.620 --> 00:01:40.459
that can break down PET plastic in less than
00:01:40.459 --> 00:01:45.420
24 hours. Third fact, Canada has officially implemented
00:01:45.420 --> 00:01:48.299
a national two -week paid climate leave policies
00:01:48.299 --> 00:01:53.650
for workers affected by extreme weather. I honestly
00:01:53.650 --> 00:01:57.969
have no clue on any of these. The middle one,
00:01:57.969 --> 00:02:01.450
I know there are plastic eating bacteria, but
00:02:01.450 --> 00:02:03.769
I think that's way too fast. So that'll be my
00:02:03.769 --> 00:02:07.849
guess. But I do not know. Good. You shouldn't.
00:02:08.210 --> 00:02:10.189
All right. Yeah. That's the joy of it, right?
00:02:10.210 --> 00:02:14.210
Now we get a guess at it. But Adam, you know,
00:02:14.729 --> 00:02:17.030
you've been supporting this podcast, you, Sam,
00:02:17.370 --> 00:02:21.469
the rest of Brave. And honestly, Most of the
00:02:21.469 --> 00:02:25.310
eyeballs that we've got now have come because
00:02:25.310 --> 00:02:28.870
of just connections through Brave. So I've been
00:02:28.870 --> 00:02:32.050
really, really pleased with how that relationship's
00:02:32.050 --> 00:02:34.210
gone. Brave Media, you can see the Brave Media
00:02:34.210 --> 00:02:37.169
right here for anybody that's watching. We got
00:02:37.169 --> 00:02:41.050
a Brave shirt. I got my Brave. We all got Brave
00:02:41.050 --> 00:02:44.370
gear on, because the gear is great for the record.
00:02:44.990 --> 00:02:47.789
I know, Sam, you do a lot of that stuff. Adam
00:02:47.789 --> 00:02:52.300
does a lot of it too. The gear is awesome. It's
00:02:52.300 --> 00:02:54.939
pretty much my wardrobe at this point. It's cozy.
00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:58.680
The sweatshirts are really cozy. Yeah. So Adam,
00:03:00.099 --> 00:03:02.979
I think, when did we have you on? We had you
00:03:02.979 --> 00:03:06.699
on, you've been on three or four times now. I
00:03:06.699 --> 00:03:07.719
don't think ever with me though. This is number
00:03:07.719 --> 00:03:10.740
two. Yeah, this is the first time with Sam though,
00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:15.240
with the co -host. But you were on with just
00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:17.199
the brave guys, and then you were on again with
00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:21.479
Circular Colorado. Oh, that's right. We talked
00:03:21.479 --> 00:03:25.900
Brave probably fall of last year or something
00:03:25.900 --> 00:03:30.039
like that. I don't know. Who knows what days
00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:32.879
and months anymore. They're all melded into one
00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:36.759
big day to me at this point. But wanted to bring
00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:38.879
you back on let's talk about like where's Brave
00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:43.539
at now? What's Brave doing? What is Brave? Because
00:03:43.539 --> 00:03:46.629
like a lot of people... Like we talked about
00:03:46.629 --> 00:03:48.590
this just a minute ago. A lot of people will
00:03:48.590 --> 00:03:50.590
be like, hey, what is brave? It sounds like a
00:03:50.590 --> 00:03:53.650
socialist commune. I have no idea what's happening,
00:03:53.650 --> 00:03:56.789
but it seems like there's a lot of cool stuff
00:03:56.789 --> 00:03:59.289
happening. So I think that's where we wanted
00:03:59.289 --> 00:04:03.669
to start. Like, what is brave? Why is it different?
00:04:04.090 --> 00:04:06.689
And how is it going to fix things? Like, how
00:04:06.689 --> 00:04:09.030
does it make recycling better in the U .S.? And
00:04:09.030 --> 00:04:10.849
I think that's really where we wanted to drive.
00:04:11.349 --> 00:04:14.669
So I want to start with why don't you, in your
00:04:14.669 --> 00:04:21.079
words, What is Brave? Like, what is it? We call
00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:24.579
Brave a anti -private equity, private equity
00:04:24.579 --> 00:04:32.459
fund. And by that we mean, so no, not socialism.
00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:37.660
It's not capitalism or communism. Brave is more
00:04:37.660 --> 00:04:42.600
like equitable capitalism, right? When you look
00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:44.660
at the world today, I'm going to go down my crazy
00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:47.639
Little rabbit hole, right? When you look at the
00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:52.160
world today, you at one point, you know, a while
00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:55.319
back, you had a country where like hard work
00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:59.660
meant stability, right? Like you got a job, you
00:04:59.660 --> 00:05:02.399
bought a house, you raised a family, you retired,
00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:05.779
hopefully with dignity, right? And like, it was
00:05:05.779 --> 00:05:08.540
just this thing. And now you have a world where
00:05:08.540 --> 00:05:13.139
that promise is kind of like broken. Like it
00:05:13.139 --> 00:05:16.500
almost isn't there. You know what I mean? So
00:05:16.500 --> 00:05:19.720
you have a world where today's workers are more
00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:24.120
productive than ever. And yet like they can't
00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:28.779
afford the lives that that work is intended to
00:05:28.779 --> 00:05:32.439
build. Right. And so you see a lot of discontent
00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:36.079
in the working class and it's to the level where
00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:38.819
I've been talking to a lot of people lately and
00:05:38.819 --> 00:05:41.980
I'm watching them do their jobs to hold their
00:05:41.980 --> 00:05:47.459
jobs and to do whatever is necessary to get a
00:05:47.459 --> 00:05:50.300
promotion, right? We climb ladders, but we cut
00:05:50.300 --> 00:05:53.160
each other down ladders. And so when you look
00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:56.019
at like the progression of work and the state
00:05:56.019 --> 00:05:59.220
of workers, it's just, there's like a problem,
00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:04.759
right? And so most responses to that are automation
00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:07.699
and AI, but that doesn't help jobs and workers,
00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:12.529
right? And so like, You've got workers that are
00:06:12.529 --> 00:06:15.350
like basically in survival mode right now right
00:06:15.350 --> 00:06:18.509
and wages have flatlined for a couple decades
00:06:18.509 --> 00:06:24.209
you've got You know lots of inflation costs are
00:06:24.209 --> 00:06:27.550
skyrocketing people who used to be able to use
00:06:27.550 --> 00:06:31.870
credit as Like a gap filler We're able to do
00:06:31.870 --> 00:06:33.649
that until they couldn't like there's even people
00:06:33.649 --> 00:06:36.449
who use credit now and still can't afford things
00:06:36.449 --> 00:06:42.129
right and So you watch this? situation occurring
00:06:42.129 --> 00:06:46.569
and you're like, it's a problem and it's a problem.
00:06:47.709 --> 00:06:50.170
And I think everybody kind of knows it's a problem
00:06:50.170 --> 00:06:54.470
and it needs to be fixed. And you watch like
00:06:54.470 --> 00:06:58.250
housing, healthcare, education, all these things
00:06:58.250 --> 00:07:01.490
that used to be considered investments in people
00:07:01.490 --> 00:07:04.290
and in the future. And even those things have
00:07:04.290 --> 00:07:08.230
become like toll gates, right? It's like, there's
00:07:08.230 --> 00:07:11.100
a charge on everything. There's a charge. It's
00:07:11.100 --> 00:07:14.079
like you, you can't get somewhere in a city.
00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:16.680
We're going to build an extra lane for you, which
00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:19.360
you got to pay to be in it. Right. Or it's like,
00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:21.120
you're trying to get to work in New York city.
00:07:21.300 --> 00:07:23.079
Well, if it's congested, we're going to charge
00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:25.480
you for being in traffic. I mean, it gets to
00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:28.139
a point where I, it's hard for me to comprehend
00:07:28.139 --> 00:07:31.139
a lot of things that are going on. Right. And
00:07:31.139 --> 00:07:33.420
so you have a lot of working class families that
00:07:33.420 --> 00:07:36.399
basically are just living paycheck to paycheck.
00:07:36.939 --> 00:07:42.060
And it's not because. they failed, it's because
00:07:42.060 --> 00:07:44.920
the game sort of been redesigned to keep them
00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:49.740
playing, but never winning, right? And so the
00:07:49.740 --> 00:07:54.439
only area that becomes like semi socialist comments
00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:58.139
in this is the statistics of wealth in the United
00:07:58.139 --> 00:08:02.240
States, right? You're watching all these really,
00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:04.660
really rich people get much richer, right? I
00:08:04.660 --> 00:08:09.490
think the top 1 % of wealthy individuals gained
00:08:09.490 --> 00:08:13.569
$6 .5 trillion in wealth over the last decade.
00:08:13.949 --> 00:08:15.490
You know what I mean? And so you're watching
00:08:15.490 --> 00:08:18.250
these things happen and you start to wonder why
00:08:18.250 --> 00:08:23.089
we're not making a reinvestment into sort of
00:08:23.089 --> 00:08:25.970
like what's going on, right? You're watching
00:08:25.970 --> 00:08:28.870
like this busy U .S. dynasty that's been doing
00:08:28.870 --> 00:08:30.949
its thing for a long time and succeeding really
00:08:30.949 --> 00:08:34.009
well, kind of falling apart. politically and
00:08:34.009 --> 00:08:36.570
economically, like you can kind of just feel
00:08:36.570 --> 00:08:38.389
that things are not right. And I think a lot
00:08:38.389 --> 00:08:39.970
of people can feel that things are not right.
00:08:40.870 --> 00:08:43.370
And so we basically, you know, you look at the
00:08:43.370 --> 00:08:46.929
working class, the power is kind of draining
00:08:46.929 --> 00:08:49.730
away from them. The balance between like labor
00:08:49.730 --> 00:08:53.610
and capital has kind of broken. Right. And you're
00:08:53.610 --> 00:08:56.909
watching unions weaken. There's no more pensions.
00:08:56.950 --> 00:08:58.970
There's no more. Right. Like the thing that used
00:08:58.970 --> 00:09:01.009
to be like, you come work here and we take care
00:09:01.009 --> 00:09:04.360
of you. Like I said, is gone. And you've got
00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:08.659
CEOs that make 200, 300 times more than some
00:09:08.659 --> 00:09:10.480
of the people that work for the business, right?
00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:12.240
Like that are actually out on these manufacturing
00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:16.700
floors. And then we go to wonder why we can't
00:09:16.700 --> 00:09:19.379
find workers and why we can't get things done.
00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:22.639
And you talk about onshoring more work in manufacturing
00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:26.440
and you're kind of like, the reason that's happening
00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:28.860
is because you have very few people actually
00:09:28.860 --> 00:09:32.159
compounding wealth. And you have very many people
00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:35.799
compounding exhaustion, right? And like wonder
00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:38.960
of why they can't seem to get ahead. So how does
00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:43.259
Brave solve that? Okay. So there's the, there's
00:09:43.259 --> 00:09:45.299
the million dollar question. Like we still haven't
00:09:45.299 --> 00:09:47.799
even talked about what Brave is at this point.
00:09:48.100 --> 00:09:53.679
Okay. So Brave like, is an attempt to kind of
00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:59.210
rewire the reward system. Okay. So like, I told
00:09:59.210 --> 00:10:02.769
you it's more equitable capitalism. Yeah. And
00:10:02.769 --> 00:10:05.330
it's like a future kind of where ownership is
00:10:05.330 --> 00:10:10.009
more shared and labor earns more equity and communities
00:10:10.009 --> 00:10:13.710
don't just try to recycle materials. They try
00:10:13.710 --> 00:10:17.330
to recycle like some hope and some wealth and
00:10:17.330 --> 00:10:20.730
some opportunity for people. Right. And in our
00:10:20.730 --> 00:10:23.149
opinion, it was like, you can do that in a way
00:10:23.149 --> 00:10:26.909
where small businesses don't stand toe to toe.
00:10:27.009 --> 00:10:29.940
They stand shoulder to shoulder. Right. And so
00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:34.500
we basically developed a system that like is,
00:10:34.500 --> 00:10:38.879
you know, a, it's got some circular ownership
00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:43.539
to it. Right. It's got where the workers and
00:10:43.539 --> 00:10:46.360
like the local investor or the, the investors
00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:48.980
kind of co -own the supply chain. You've got
00:10:48.980 --> 00:10:51.519
shared dividends with profits, right. That are
00:10:51.519 --> 00:10:53.279
shared amongst the workers and the people that
00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:57.080
are participating. In our case, you have a shot
00:10:57.080 --> 00:10:59.379
at sustainable manufacturing where materials
00:10:59.379 --> 00:11:02.620
that are actually valuable can be recirculated
00:11:02.620 --> 00:11:05.320
into the system properly. And those materials
00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:07.720
are valuable. I mean, we're literally taking,
00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:10.559
we're taking resources that are limited and we're
00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:13.840
deciding to throw them in the trash because we're
00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:17.379
too lazy to look at it. Right. And so Brave was
00:11:17.379 --> 00:11:21.740
designed as a system to get small businesses
00:11:21.740 --> 00:11:26.610
to participate together. in order to build efficiencies,
00:11:27.129 --> 00:11:32.210
cut out logistics, like cut out handling, share
00:11:32.210 --> 00:11:35.350
knowledge base, share tool sets that are working
00:11:35.350 --> 00:11:38.590
between the companies. And we built it out as
00:11:38.590 --> 00:11:40.730
a stockholder program that basically would be
00:11:40.730 --> 00:11:42.970
like a publicly owned stock if it was actually
00:11:42.970 --> 00:11:45.049
owned by the public and not a bunch of institutional
00:11:45.049 --> 00:11:49.470
investors, right? And so we were like, how do
00:11:49.470 --> 00:11:53.990
you build a national company without building
00:11:53.990 --> 00:11:56.990
20 plants. And how do you get resources and tools
00:11:56.990 --> 00:12:00.250
to that national company without having huge
00:12:00.250 --> 00:12:03.629
pots of money, right? And going after people
00:12:03.629 --> 00:12:05.549
that are going to say, I need my huge chunk if
00:12:05.549 --> 00:12:08.830
I'm going to do this. And so it took us a while.
00:12:09.090 --> 00:12:12.289
It's really hard to get small businesses to participate
00:12:12.289 --> 00:12:15.029
in general. Like most of the time, small businesses
00:12:15.029 --> 00:12:16.850
are told so, right? They're never going to go
00:12:16.850 --> 00:12:18.070
talk to each other because they see each other
00:12:18.070 --> 00:12:22.509
as a competitor. But when you look at it as a
00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:25.779
collaborative partnership, you start to see like
00:12:25.779 --> 00:12:28.379
- Co -op maybe? Would you call it a co -op? So
00:12:28.379 --> 00:12:31.379
it's not really run as much like a co -op. I'd
00:12:31.379 --> 00:12:33.440
probably call it more like a consolidated franchise
00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:36.740
model. Okay. Because we're trying to build tool
00:12:36.740 --> 00:12:41.480
sets that allow small companies to kind of elevate
00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:45.740
themselves, right? When you look at direct polymers,
00:12:46.179 --> 00:12:48.639
we would never be able to have an HR division,
00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:51.399
right? Alternative plastics could never have
00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:54.230
an HR division. choice plastics could never have
00:12:54.230 --> 00:12:56.649
an HR division, right? But when you start to
00:12:56.649 --> 00:12:59.590
look at if you were to take an HR person and
00:12:59.590 --> 00:13:02.669
divide it by 10 companies, right, or a legal
00:13:02.669 --> 00:13:06.090
resource and divide it by 10 companies, we're
00:13:06.090 --> 00:13:09.870
building these tool sets that exist, that are
00:13:09.870 --> 00:13:12.190
sort of like on this umbrella that everybody
00:13:12.190 --> 00:13:14.789
can have access to. And then we're saying - Shared
00:13:14.789 --> 00:13:17.690
services is like, if you're gonna use corporate
00:13:17.690 --> 00:13:20.929
speak, that's shared services. shared services,
00:13:21.289 --> 00:13:24.610
shared assets, right? Like multiple avenues where
00:13:24.610 --> 00:13:27.570
these companies can share things that they normally
00:13:27.570 --> 00:13:31.230
wouldn't have access to. It also builds the access
00:13:31.230 --> 00:13:35.110
to economies of scale. Because if you talk about
00:13:35.110 --> 00:13:37.070
national account management and you talk about
00:13:37.070 --> 00:13:40.389
things that small companies typically can't do,
00:13:40.889 --> 00:13:43.509
when you start locating them in specific regions
00:13:43.509 --> 00:13:46.730
of the country, in a way that's strategic, as
00:13:46.730 --> 00:13:48.809
if you were gonna say, where would we go build
00:13:48.809 --> 00:13:51.490
plants to build a national company? You can start
00:13:51.490 --> 00:13:54.330
taking on things like national accounts, right?
00:13:54.429 --> 00:13:57.129
Because this chunk goes to these companies, this
00:13:57.129 --> 00:13:59.590
chunk goes to these companies, and it creates
00:13:59.590 --> 00:14:03.230
the ability to standardize the reporting, the
00:14:03.230 --> 00:14:05.889
communication, streamline the communication back
00:14:05.889 --> 00:14:08.590
up to large companies, which is actually highly
00:14:08.590 --> 00:14:13.370
beneficial for them, right? So let me jump in
00:14:13.370 --> 00:14:19.159
here for a second. So, let's say I am a big box
00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:24.179
store. I'm Costco, but I'm not Costco. And I've
00:14:24.179 --> 00:14:27.419
got distribution centers all over the US. And
00:14:27.419 --> 00:14:31.580
right now, my waste that I'm collecting at each
00:14:31.580 --> 00:14:36.399
of these facilities is being shipped to one of
00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:40.440
six different suppliers or service providers
00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:45.029
that are handling all my waste. I don't look
00:14:45.029 --> 00:14:47.549
at it holistically. I don't think there's a national
00:14:47.549 --> 00:14:49.450
footprint out there that can solve this for me.
00:14:49.470 --> 00:14:53.669
So I've got contract A that handles the Northwest.
00:14:54.169 --> 00:14:55.950
I've got contract B that handles the Midwest
00:14:55.950 --> 00:14:59.470
and so on and so forth. And so what you're saying
00:14:59.470 --> 00:15:02.230
is now you've got a national footprint. So you
00:15:02.230 --> 00:15:05.629
can go to big box store that I run and say, I
00:15:05.629 --> 00:15:10.190
can handle 100 % of your footprint or I can take
00:15:10.190 --> 00:15:12.950
100 % of your waste. We can make it circular
00:15:12.950 --> 00:15:15.700
or I can take it all and make sure that it all
00:15:15.700 --> 00:15:19.379
gets back into the supply chain somewhere. It
00:15:19.379 --> 00:15:21.100
may not need to go directly back to you, but
00:15:21.100 --> 00:15:24.340
it can go back somewhere. And it's kind of changing
00:15:24.340 --> 00:15:28.240
the game because before everybody was just a
00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:31.200
small mom and pop that were all competing for
00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:33.679
each of those distribution centers and all the
00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:35.580
streams of material that come out of there. But
00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:38.419
now you're saying you can all pull it together
00:15:38.419 --> 00:15:42.179
and handle it from a national perspective. And
00:15:42.179 --> 00:15:45.460
I think that's the game changing part of this
00:15:45.460 --> 00:15:48.899
because right now you and I both know there's
00:15:48.899 --> 00:15:50.679
some big brokerage houses out there. I'm not
00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:52.879
going to throw names around because it's not
00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:57.899
fair to them. But they are not necessarily looking
00:15:57.899 --> 00:16:02.279
to connect the dots like that. They want to get
00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:04.580
all the material and then sell all the material
00:16:04.580 --> 00:16:08.340
quickly at some sort of profit. And typically
00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:11.840
those numbers are very low. it actually destroys
00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:15.700
the recycling market because you'll get just
00:16:15.700 --> 00:16:18.980
for an example we use my product for an example
00:16:18.980 --> 00:16:24.539
so polystyrene I got polystyrene trays in Colorado
00:16:24.539 --> 00:16:29.460
I don't know that Braves out there so I sell
00:16:29.460 --> 00:16:32.820
it to a broker I don't know what the value is
00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:35.019
so I pretty much give it to the broker I say
00:16:35.019 --> 00:16:39.179
here take five cents picked up Probably could
00:16:39.179 --> 00:16:41.159
have got 30 for it, but I don't know that because
00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:44.519
I am not in tune with the market So I give it
00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:48.179
to the broker the broker sells it for 10 so they
00:16:48.179 --> 00:16:51.700
can make their five cents on it But and everybody
00:16:51.700 --> 00:16:54.179
thinks all that's great. We moved 100 % of it.
00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:56.580
None of it ended up in the landfill. That part's
00:16:56.580 --> 00:16:59.919
great but it destroyed the market because the
00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:02.399
actual cost to do all that stuff is probably
00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:07.539
20 to 30 cents higher and so That's where I think
00:17:07.539 --> 00:17:11.799
these kind of models actually save recycling
00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:16.859
because if we don't work together, you're going
00:17:16.859 --> 00:17:18.779
to have players out that are just looking to
00:17:18.779 --> 00:17:22.220
move it. They don't care about the sanctity of
00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:24.279
the market. They don't care about protecting
00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:27.099
the interest of the industry. They just want
00:17:27.099 --> 00:17:30.200
to move volume. And the brokers just want to
00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:32.559
move volume. That's what brokers do to their
00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:35.539
credit. They're incentivized to do that. They
00:17:35.539 --> 00:17:37.539
shouldn't be out there trying to protect the
00:17:37.539 --> 00:17:39.940
market. But you're trying to say, that's a bad
00:17:39.940 --> 00:17:42.660
model, which I agree with. It's a bad model.
00:17:42.859 --> 00:17:44.759
Let's do something different. And that's what
00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:46.359
Brave is doing. All right. I'm going to let you
00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:48.220
keep cooking. But I just wanted to throw that
00:17:48.220 --> 00:17:51.660
in. No, 100%. And you're totally right. And it's
00:17:51.660 --> 00:17:54.559
not that we have anything against brokers. I
00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:57.680
mean, we do a lot of brokerage. I think it just
00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:00.180
needs to be adjusted. I think it needs to be
00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:03.460
reworked a little bit. And so when you look at
00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:07.039
You look at the, how the system works today.
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:12.680
It's like this zigzag, like kind of downward
00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:15.880
thing where it's like you have a generator and
00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.039
then it's like waste consultant or waste consolidator.
00:18:19.339 --> 00:18:22.799
And then it's like broker or processor and then
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:26.059
broker to processor and then broker to compounder
00:18:26.059 --> 00:18:28.019
and then compounder to end user. And you watch
00:18:28.019 --> 00:18:31.680
this. zigzag occur and on every layer of that
00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:34.579
you see costs and logistics and inefficiency.
00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:36.799
Like there's a lot of times that materials are
00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:38.400
going to someone they shouldn't be going to because
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:40.740
they end up at the processor anyway and they
00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:42.819
often get brought back say waste consolidation
00:18:42.819 --> 00:18:46.819
and like they'll put work and effort into things
00:18:46.819 --> 00:18:49.420
and handling and consolidation that just adds
00:18:49.420 --> 00:18:51.599
cost. And a lot of the times they'll do it in
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:54.220
a way that also depletes the value of the material.
00:18:54.500 --> 00:18:57.359
You know what I mean? And so when you look at
00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:00.339
the consultant, the broker, the processor, we
00:19:00.339 --> 00:19:02.680
kind of just try to take it all and put it into
00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:06.480
one, right? So that we can go in and sit with
00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:09.180
a company and consult them. And if they've got
00:19:09.180 --> 00:19:12.079
multiple locations, you know, they have 40 locations
00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:14.480
or something throughout the United States, we're
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:16.900
able to provide proper consulting to them for
00:19:16.900 --> 00:19:19.640
how to most efficiently drive that material to
00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:23.200
a processor, right? And then we're able to...
00:19:23.369 --> 00:19:27.109
also cut supply agreements with compounders who
00:19:27.109 --> 00:19:29.029
are not going to take eight different commodities
00:19:29.029 --> 00:19:31.789
on the drop trailer service, because our companies
00:19:31.789 --> 00:19:35.049
are more a hybrid of waste and processing, right?
00:19:36.009 --> 00:19:39.549
We do some compounding, but we're like collection
00:19:39.549 --> 00:19:42.150
systems, like local and regional collection systems
00:19:42.150 --> 00:19:44.210
where we take styrene and we take propylene and
00:19:44.210 --> 00:19:45.930
we take all these different things. And so when
00:19:45.930 --> 00:19:49.430
you look at a map, if you have a map full of
00:19:49.430 --> 00:19:51.849
collection systems, You can start to build a
00:19:51.849 --> 00:19:53.950
lot more efficiency into the system. And when
00:19:53.950 --> 00:19:56.369
you're talking about why recycling doesn't work
00:19:56.369 --> 00:19:58.690
right now, you've got the resin price argument,
00:19:58.690 --> 00:20:01.950
right? Where the prices are going down. You've
00:20:01.950 --> 00:20:03.849
got the demand argument where not enough of it
00:20:03.849 --> 00:20:05.930
is being used. Then you have like the, we're
00:20:05.930 --> 00:20:08.029
super inefficient and archaic and we don't do
00:20:08.029 --> 00:20:10.890
anything right, right? On the front end of things.
00:20:11.650 --> 00:20:14.869
And so our focus has been more build efficiencies
00:20:14.869 --> 00:20:18.119
into that front end. And then try to push more
00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:20.420
demand through standardization of what's going
00:20:20.420 --> 00:20:24.119
on at these facilities. And the resin situation
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:26.480
just is what it is, right? You have to try to
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:27.900
compete with that. You're not going to control
00:20:27.900 --> 00:20:31.880
what the resin companies do. And so for Brave's
00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:35.079
purpose, instead of looking at it at like a zigzag
00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:38.299
sort of linear system that just goes from point
00:20:38.299 --> 00:20:41.440
A to point Z eventually, our job is to kind of
00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:44.529
look at the generator. or the manufacturer and
00:20:44.529 --> 00:20:47.710
say, how could we build a system for you that
00:20:47.710 --> 00:20:50.089
involves infrastructure consulting and all these
00:20:50.089 --> 00:20:52.789
things to just build an efficient process that
00:20:52.789 --> 00:20:54.990
also potentially returns the materials back to
00:20:54.990 --> 00:20:57.190
these companies. You're watching a lot of these
00:20:57.190 --> 00:21:00.529
producers produce something in their plant and
00:21:00.529 --> 00:21:02.609
then they're releasing it and letting it go.
00:21:03.009 --> 00:21:06.390
And then they're buying new material for PCR
00:21:06.390 --> 00:21:08.809
that costs three times more with the industrial
00:21:08.809 --> 00:21:12.339
product does. And like, they're paying for that.
00:21:12.380 --> 00:21:14.200
And I'm like, you're letting 25 million pounds
00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:16.059
a year ago from your plants that you should be
00:21:16.059 --> 00:21:18.359
taking back this bottle that you're making and
00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:20.259
this bottle I'm drinking out over the exact same
00:21:20.259 --> 00:21:23.299
thing. You know what I mean? And so we're trying
00:21:23.299 --> 00:21:25.359
to just like improve the system in that way.
00:21:25.460 --> 00:21:28.799
And the only way to do that is also to build
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:32.200
standardization and reliance and trust within
00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:34.400
the recycling world itself, because there's a
00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:36.539
reason that people don't use recycling. They
00:21:36.539 --> 00:21:38.240
go to five different recyclers, they get five
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.619
different inputs, right, for the same material
00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:42.680
type, because everybody does stuff a little bit
00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:44.660
different. Some people have better processes
00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:47.079
than others, and it's not necessarily reliable
00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:49.220
at this point. A good example of what you're
00:21:49.220 --> 00:21:51.619
talking about, because I was a buyer for a very
00:21:51.619 --> 00:21:56.400
long time. The amount of time that I would get
00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:00.140
offered the same recycle stream of material by
00:22:00.140 --> 00:22:02.579
seven different companies at seven different
00:22:02.579 --> 00:22:07.130
prices, it shocked me. because I knew exactly
00:22:07.130 --> 00:22:09.309
where the material was coming from, what it was.
00:22:09.390 --> 00:22:12.150
I was already offered direct, but I couldn't
00:22:12.150 --> 00:22:15.569
use it. But then every single broker got involved
00:22:15.569 --> 00:22:18.930
and they all started throwing out numbers that
00:22:18.930 --> 00:22:23.609
were sometimes 10 cents higher than what the
00:22:23.609 --> 00:22:26.470
original offer was. So just using that example,
00:22:26.890 --> 00:22:30.390
we got a 10 cent premium over what it could have
00:22:30.390 --> 00:22:33.109
been, which probably it could even have been
00:22:33.109 --> 00:22:37.650
too high to begin with. And then you've got to
00:22:37.650 --> 00:22:39.470
ship it to wherever it needs to go. Then you
00:22:39.470 --> 00:22:41.730
got to make it back into a pellet. So you're
00:22:41.730 --> 00:22:45.750
15, 20 cents higher than the market just because
00:22:45.750 --> 00:22:49.509
other hands are involved. And it's nobody's fault
00:22:49.509 --> 00:22:52.890
that this has happened this way. It's just that
00:22:52.890 --> 00:22:56.869
there's not a real defined structure on how any
00:22:56.869 --> 00:23:00.150
of this works. It's just a, hey, I got waste.
00:23:00.789 --> 00:23:05.559
Somebody take it. I don't care. And to their
00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:08.099
credit, they shouldn't necessarily care. That's
00:23:08.099 --> 00:23:10.460
not their business. That's not their job. Their
00:23:10.460 --> 00:23:13.579
job is just to make sure that it all goes. And
00:23:13.579 --> 00:23:16.839
it goes to a decent source. They don't want it
00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:19.900
to end up like in the ocean or something. But
00:23:19.900 --> 00:23:22.539
there's just so many efficiencies that can happen
00:23:22.539 --> 00:23:26.220
if the right conversations are happening. If
00:23:26.220 --> 00:23:30.240
that manufacturer was connected to the local...
00:23:31.539 --> 00:23:34.259
person that could do it like if they're in Colorado
00:23:34.259 --> 00:23:37.279
if they were connected to direct polymers rather
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:41.220
than to broker X Then they could send it directly
00:23:41.220 --> 00:23:43.859
to where it's going to get processed rather than
00:23:43.859 --> 00:23:47.920
going through all of the Rigmarole that it's
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:50.539
happening right now and we can make it cheaper.
00:23:50.660 --> 00:23:54.220
We can make it more efficient. We can make recycling
00:23:54.220 --> 00:23:59.029
scale in a way that's not working today I think
00:23:59.029 --> 00:24:01.910
that's where brave really changes the paradigm
00:24:01.910 --> 00:24:06.089
and I think as brave scales because it is scaling
00:24:06.089 --> 00:24:08.049
it's getting bigger and there's more people that
00:24:08.049 --> 00:24:11.009
are interested and there's Everywhere I go if
00:24:11.009 --> 00:24:12.529
I talk to anybody they're like, oh man I love
00:24:12.529 --> 00:24:14.730
what the brave guys are doing and like love that
00:24:14.730 --> 00:24:16.230
you're working with the brave guys like that
00:24:16.230 --> 00:24:20.130
kind of stuff happens everywhere I go but it's
00:24:20.130 --> 00:24:26.250
just how do we Get you in front of the the big
00:24:28.539 --> 00:24:30.880
manufacturers and cut out all those middlemen
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.039
so you can actually make this an efficient system.
00:24:33.099 --> 00:24:35.500
I think that's the part that I'm trying to figure
00:24:35.500 --> 00:24:37.559
out how to help you with. I don't know if you
00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:41.579
have any ideas on that. I do. Break media. So
00:24:41.579 --> 00:24:46.660
like we just landed a contract to sponsor basically
00:24:46.660 --> 00:24:49.859
a charity event with PEPA and Vinyl Institute
00:24:49.859 --> 00:24:52.619
down in New Orleans, right? And we're talking
00:24:52.619 --> 00:24:56.160
polyvinyl chloride, so PVC. That vinyl group.
00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:00.859
And so we basically got certainty to donate some
00:25:00.859 --> 00:25:05.259
siding to three low income houses that can't
00:25:05.259 --> 00:25:08.200
afford new siding. We got PEPA and the Vinyl
00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:10.019
Institute to sponsor it. We got some of their
00:25:10.019 --> 00:25:13.460
other members to, you know, like foam technologies
00:25:13.460 --> 00:25:15.079
and some of these other things that we can put
00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:20.039
in there. And we got Tim Ritterbos, right? Recycled
00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:22.180
by Design TV. He's going to come down and narrate
00:25:22.180 --> 00:25:24.480
like a small little docu -series. But the point
00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:29.279
of this exercise was to show like, we have to
00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:31.920
start paying attention to community and people
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:34.460
and things like that. We have to start bridging
00:25:34.460 --> 00:25:37.039
the layers of this supply chain together so that
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:39.400
they can understand what the other layer is doing
00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:42.339
and why things aren't working. And we're going
00:25:42.339 --> 00:25:45.440
to tell a story that's like, we can remove this
00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:47.920
material off of this house. And if it goes through
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:50.519
this process with these individuals involved,
00:25:50.779 --> 00:25:53.200
here's the way that it can get recycled. Right?
00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:57.740
And so in my opinion, it's more, it's more kind
00:25:57.740 --> 00:25:59.839
of like announcing the way that these things
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:02.180
could happen and starting to build some culture
00:26:02.180 --> 00:26:05.180
into it and kind of speaking the truth about
00:26:05.180 --> 00:26:08.940
what's going on. Like I said, I don't say it
00:26:08.940 --> 00:26:11.000
to like talk on people, but I watch all these
00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:12.700
people in these conference rooms saying all the
00:26:12.700 --> 00:26:14.859
great things that are going to do. And the recycling
00:26:14.859 --> 00:26:17.380
system is failing right now. Like the recyclers
00:26:17.380 --> 00:26:19.119
are struggling so hard. And so I'm like, how
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:21.180
do you have such a big disconnect? And the reason
00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:25.200
is. is it's optics versus solutions. Like, people
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.420
want optics to show that they're trying to be
00:26:27.420 --> 00:26:30.299
sustainable or that, like, you know, whatever
00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:32.640
it is. And I don't want to say it's, like, a
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:35.900
lie, but there is a... I'll say it for you. It
00:26:35.900 --> 00:26:39.619
is. It's greenwashing of the highest order. I'm
00:26:39.619 --> 00:26:42.039
fine with that. So you're like, why greenwash
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:43.900
if you can do math and you can make this stuff
00:26:43.900 --> 00:26:46.940
actually work? And so we're just trying to be
00:26:46.940 --> 00:26:49.460
the team that... can be that point of contact
00:26:49.460 --> 00:26:51.380
to make it work. And it's actually really beneficial
00:26:51.380 --> 00:26:53.640
to both sides. Because the way that we've built
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:55.500
it out is if you think of Brave as just a point
00:26:55.500 --> 00:26:57.740
of contact between the two worlds, right? Because
00:26:57.740 --> 00:26:59.559
that's what's happening is there's a big disconnect
00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:01.940
between the two worlds. The big producers, they
00:27:01.940 --> 00:27:03.680
don't actually know how the recycling system
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:06.940
works. At all. At all. And they're being sold
00:27:06.940 --> 00:27:08.819
right now on a lot of other things about how
00:27:08.819 --> 00:27:11.240
it should work. And the recyclers are like, that's
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:12.980
not going to work. That's actually going to make
00:27:12.980 --> 00:27:15.880
it worse. Go. go generate a lot more supply and
00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:17.900
dump it on a market that has no demand, you're
00:27:17.900 --> 00:27:19.660
just going to decrease the price more. It means
00:27:19.660 --> 00:27:22.579
basic economics, right? And so when you can kind
00:27:22.579 --> 00:27:24.920
of be the group that's intended to consult and
00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:28.779
educate and like advise them about systems that
00:27:28.779 --> 00:27:32.380
could work, and then you have a level of influence
00:27:32.380 --> 00:27:35.279
over the infrastructure that exists, the existing
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:38.140
infrastructure that already exists as being underutilized
00:27:38.140 --> 00:27:40.759
in the recycling world, you're like, let's go
00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:43.440
help make them better and more efficient. and
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:45.460
kind of team them up so that they know where
00:27:45.460 --> 00:27:47.480
the best avenues to go with the materials are,
00:27:47.559 --> 00:27:49.420
where we can get them deal flow, where we can
00:27:49.420 --> 00:27:52.079
get them account management, right? Because they
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:54.000
just want the work. So we're looking at the plants
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:56.539
as like working arms that we can communicate
00:27:56.539 --> 00:27:58.299
with. And then you look at the producers and
00:27:58.299 --> 00:28:00.839
the manufacturers or generators of scrap, whatever
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:03.720
it is. And Brave is like this little dot link
00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:05.819
in the middle of them so that it could be like,
00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:08.460
we help you flow things down this way. We give
00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:10.799
them work and do it in a way that's standardized.
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:13.099
Right. And then we can feed either feed that
00:28:13.099 --> 00:28:16.019
material back upstream or we can find ways to
00:28:16.019 --> 00:28:20.400
like diversify the outlets or sort of even look
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:22.359
at the market situation. Like you said, some
00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:24.079
of these guys take a big contract, then they
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:26.079
go try to make a penny and they dump 20 million
00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:28.019
pounds on the market. It does the same thing.
00:28:28.059 --> 00:28:29.859
Right. It just depletes the price and then nobody
00:28:29.859 --> 00:28:32.000
can sell anything. And you've got 50 people offering
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:35.000
the same thing at 50 prices. And I'm trying to
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:36.799
tell the recycling world that's not beneficial
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:40.470
for you. And I'm trying to tell the, the generator
00:28:40.470 --> 00:28:43.329
world that it's like, you need better advice.
00:28:43.490 --> 00:28:45.849
And like, we need to set up a better system to
00:28:45.849 --> 00:28:51.250
make this work. Right. And so you look at what
00:28:51.250 --> 00:28:53.369
they're doing right now, some of these producers,
00:28:53.549 --> 00:28:56.789
they're communicating with six, seven, 10 different
00:28:56.789 --> 00:29:00.799
groups for those 40 plants. And they're also
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:02.859
getting a lot of inputs back. Like the receiver
00:29:02.859 --> 00:29:04.920
looks this way from this company and they have
00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:06.960
to go schedule trucks at this one and they have
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:08.720
to do that. And so if you can help coordinate
00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:11.339
those systems for them better, all of a sudden
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:13.240
they're like, wait, so you can be one point of
00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:15.819
contact, but have multiple eggs in the basket
00:29:15.819 --> 00:29:17.700
down here that you can distribute our plants
00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:20.619
with and then have standardized reporting, standardized
00:29:20.619 --> 00:29:23.140
communication back to us. It makes it really
00:29:23.140 --> 00:29:28.119
simple on them too. And I think the benefit that
00:29:28.190 --> 00:29:31.789
A lot of people don't get out of that is data
00:29:31.789 --> 00:29:36.349
and recycling sucks. The EPA used to do a big
00:29:36.349 --> 00:29:40.309
study every couple years where they would figure
00:29:40.309 --> 00:29:42.410
out what the generation was, what was recycled.
00:29:42.849 --> 00:29:45.970
They stopped doing that. They're supposedly starting
00:29:45.970 --> 00:29:49.549
to do it again, but the amount of effort and
00:29:49.549 --> 00:29:51.650
money that companies that I've been involved
00:29:51.650 --> 00:29:56.230
with has spent to figure out what's being recycled
00:29:56.230 --> 00:30:01.880
and where. is huge because there's no reporting
00:30:01.880 --> 00:30:04.779
structure of any of this because nobody's tracking
00:30:04.779 --> 00:30:07.839
any of it unless that certain company is. But
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:09.299
then you'll talk to a big company and they're
00:30:09.299 --> 00:30:11.579
like, hey, we're not really tracking it. It goes
00:30:11.579 --> 00:30:13.319
through each of our plants. So then you got to
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:15.180
talk to each of the plant managers to figure
00:30:15.180 --> 00:30:18.059
out how much, who's the contract, where is it
00:30:18.059 --> 00:30:21.759
going to? It's a nightmare system to figuring
00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:26.509
out just as polystyrene is an example. Who's
00:30:26.509 --> 00:30:30.529
recycling it where and how much I? Don't know
00:30:30.529 --> 00:30:33.190
we're working on that right now, but it's like
00:30:33.190 --> 00:30:37.430
if we had one or two big players like a brave
00:30:37.430 --> 00:30:39.869
that you're talking about that are handling all
00:30:39.869 --> 00:30:42.710
these contracts for all these companies and Tracking
00:30:42.710 --> 00:30:44.690
it through a system then I could just go to brave
00:30:44.690 --> 00:30:48.150
and say how much polystyrene did you move in?
00:30:48.309 --> 00:30:51.789
2024 and then you could tell me and I say okay.
00:30:52.029 --> 00:30:55.759
This is how much polystyrene was recycled That
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:59.079
and that's just poly start how much PVC how much
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:02.740
PET how much poly probably? All of this stuff
00:31:02.740 --> 00:31:05.500
could be tracked in a better way. We could have
00:31:05.500 --> 00:31:07.460
better data. We could really understand what's
00:31:07.460 --> 00:31:11.160
going on and Today, we don't have that because
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:13.400
I don't know of any broker that's actually tracking
00:31:13.400 --> 00:31:18.799
for any reason what pounds of Recycle content
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:21.099
that they're managing because it's to them. It
00:31:21.099 --> 00:31:23.740
it's just a commodity that they're moving and
00:31:23.740 --> 00:31:26.319
they're just trying to move it for more pennies
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:29.460
than they bought. Yep. And we've got to break
00:31:29.460 --> 00:31:32.220
that system because if we don't break that system,
00:31:33.539 --> 00:31:35.680
recycling doesn't get better in the U .S. And
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:38.019
that's the whole goal with all this. Recycling
00:31:38.019 --> 00:31:40.480
get better. We take better care of our people
00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:42.980
and we make a difference. Those are the three
00:31:42.980 --> 00:31:45.099
things that we have to do. And that's what Brave
00:31:45.099 --> 00:31:47.539
is doing. Yep. Yeah, we're trying to I mean,
00:31:47.539 --> 00:31:49.940
you can't just have standalone. This industry
00:31:49.940 --> 00:31:54.420
is too complex to have standalone generic software,
00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:56.740
right? Like it's been proven over and over. It
00:31:56.740 --> 00:31:59.180
needs to be tied to what's going on with the
00:31:59.180 --> 00:32:02.900
infrastructure. And so you look at that ability
00:32:02.900 --> 00:32:06.559
to provide traceability to the companies. That
00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:08.599
is kind of the point of being the single point
00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:11.099
of contact. It also allows us, like I said, to
00:32:11.099 --> 00:32:14.220
return the materials to them. We're basically
00:32:14.220 --> 00:32:16.779
kind of building circular models. That's really
00:32:16.779 --> 00:32:19.650
what it is, right? Being able to take infrastructure
00:32:19.650 --> 00:32:22.690
and needs of companies and people that can move
00:32:22.690 --> 00:32:25.650
materials and build circular systems for them
00:32:25.650 --> 00:32:28.569
and do it for them, right? Because they don't
00:32:28.569 --> 00:32:30.450
know what's going on, a lot of them, and they
00:32:30.450 --> 00:32:32.289
need that advice and they need the advice from
00:32:32.289 --> 00:32:35.509
the industry people that know how to do it, right?
00:32:35.730 --> 00:32:37.930
And the industry people that know how to do it
00:32:37.930 --> 00:32:40.630
are the local and regional, small to mid -size,
00:32:40.690 --> 00:32:43.369
some of the larger ones too, but it's the people
00:32:43.369 --> 00:32:45.690
that have been doing this for decades, right?
00:32:46.460 --> 00:32:49.579
sit in a 17 ,000 square foot facility in one
00:32:49.579 --> 00:32:51.359
section of the country, but they have a lot of
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:53.140
knowledge and they know how to do things, especially
00:32:53.140 --> 00:32:55.900
when you combine that knowledge base and you
00:32:55.900 --> 00:32:58.299
start taking those skillsets and like what everybody
00:32:58.299 --> 00:33:01.140
knows and you start consolidating it into like
00:33:01.140 --> 00:33:04.859
one solution for them, right? And so it's been
00:33:04.859 --> 00:33:07.119
highly beneficial when we watch the plants that
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:10.359
we're working with work together because every
00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:12.740
one of them has gotten better. They're all doing
00:33:12.740 --> 00:33:15.079
more transactions. Sam will vouch for that. They're
00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:18.000
doing more transactions. Everybody's happier
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:20.819
with what they're doing because it's better to
00:33:20.819 --> 00:33:22.660
just be able to pick up the phone and get something
00:33:22.660 --> 00:33:25.160
done and to go haggle all day and figure out
00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:27.920
how to hide things from a bunch of people and
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:31.059
do two transactions versus communicating and
00:33:31.059 --> 00:33:33.259
doing things right and efficiently and doing
00:33:33.259 --> 00:33:36.799
10 transactions. They're not closing down like
00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:39.980
all these other recycling facilities right now.
00:33:41.220 --> 00:33:44.220
Specifically in a down market right now like
00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:47.460
because we're in a down market like No, there's
00:33:47.460 --> 00:33:51.019
no hiding that market. Yeah poly or any plastic
00:33:51.019 --> 00:33:53.640
is a down market right now I don't care what
00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:55.880
you're producing. I don't care if it's recycled
00:33:55.880 --> 00:34:00.140
virgin Bio it doesn't matter it everything is
00:34:00.140 --> 00:34:03.359
down because we keep losing the battle on the
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:07.200
narrative and everybody's moving to paper and
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:11.719
glass and all this other stuff and If we can't
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:16.179
solve for recycling at scale and truly believe
00:34:16.179 --> 00:34:19.719
in it and truly invest in it, then we're going
00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:23.579
to continue to lose. And that's what you guys
00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:29.199
are trying to connect here. And my primary goal
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:33.320
of continuing to have these conversations is
00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:37.199
that eventually some bigger brands may hear what
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:39.340
we're talking about and be like, we really need
00:34:39.340 --> 00:34:43.590
that. Because I can tell you right now, there's
00:34:43.590 --> 00:34:46.050
probably two or three brands that I know that
00:34:46.050 --> 00:34:49.050
actually manage their waste well. The rest of
00:34:49.050 --> 00:34:52.989
them is just a hodgepodge of, eh, get it out
00:34:52.989 --> 00:34:57.949
the door. It's just, it's waste. But you could
00:34:57.949 --> 00:35:00.530
make it circular if you work with the right partners
00:35:00.530 --> 00:35:03.269
and you connect the right dots. And there's nobody
00:35:03.269 --> 00:35:06.369
in those big brands or the big manufacturers
00:35:06.369 --> 00:35:09.670
that have the time, bandwidth, or expertise.
00:35:10.059 --> 00:35:13.960
to do that. And that's where you guys come in.
00:35:14.460 --> 00:35:17.179
I think some people get nervous, though, because
00:35:17.179 --> 00:35:23.900
they're almost outsourcing to you to figure out
00:35:23.900 --> 00:35:27.760
how to solve all this stuff. I trust you. I know
00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:31.239
a lot of people that do. But why should a brand
00:35:31.239 --> 00:35:34.039
look at Brave and say, I'm going to go with Brave?
00:35:35.099 --> 00:35:37.920
What they say, I'm going to go with, and that's
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:41.409
the right thing to do. How do they know that
00:35:41.409 --> 00:35:43.929
is the right thing to do because it's what you
00:35:43.929 --> 00:35:48.250
just said our job I agree with you know our job
00:35:48.250 --> 00:35:53.510
in this the company itself Like at least the
00:35:53.510 --> 00:35:57.809
way I see it is people like anyone can go run
00:35:57.809 --> 00:36:01.250
machines anybody can Like get up on tech and
00:36:01.250 --> 00:36:02.869
figure it out And that's why I did that whole
00:36:02.869 --> 00:36:05.769
thing in the beginning about where the state
00:36:05.769 --> 00:36:08.030
of like the working people in the labor system
00:36:08.030 --> 00:36:12.389
is Because in my opinion, the business and the
00:36:12.389 --> 00:36:16.570
value that exists today is people. Like there's
00:36:16.570 --> 00:36:18.750
a business in working people because they're
00:36:18.750 --> 00:36:21.329
so pissed off and so held down. And so you're
00:36:21.329 --> 00:36:24.090
like, if you can create a culture instead of
00:36:24.090 --> 00:36:26.889
saying like, like you should be grateful for
00:36:26.889 --> 00:36:31.610
your job. It's like, you should take pride in
00:36:31.610 --> 00:36:35.369
your job and own it and like get a cut of it.
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.579
We're trying to build a culture that's based
00:36:38.579 --> 00:36:41.340
on honesty because it doesn't exist anymore.
00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:43.179
Like people don't come in and just tell the truth.
00:36:43.219 --> 00:36:45.159
They come in and sell people all day long. They
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:48.059
market things to people all day long. We're so
00:36:48.059 --> 00:36:51.840
guarded against like thinking we're lied to all
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:54.420
the time that you're like, well, as soon as somebody
00:36:54.420 --> 00:36:56.539
comes in and creates a company that actually
00:36:56.539 --> 00:36:58.340
is here to just tell the truth and do the right
00:36:58.340 --> 00:36:59.460
thing for them, they're probably going to be
00:36:59.460 --> 00:37:03.340
pretty successful. Right? So the biggest surprise
00:37:03.340 --> 00:37:06.099
to that is how guarded people are. Like I'll
00:37:06.099 --> 00:37:08.159
go in and help somebody literally and there's
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:09.960
nothing in it for me. I mean, I've done a lot
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:12.119
of stuff in the last 12 months. I haven't gotten
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:14.280
paid anything. I'm literally just trying to help.
00:37:15.260 --> 00:37:17.960
And you watch the hesitation with that because
00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:19.460
they're kind of like, well, what's the catch?
00:37:19.619 --> 00:37:21.099
And I'm like, the catch is that I'm here to help
00:37:21.099 --> 00:37:23.139
you because I want to make this better. And if
00:37:23.139 --> 00:37:25.039
we do this, you're probably going to come back
00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:27.599
and do business with us 20 more times. Right.
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:30.139
And so you mentioned brokers and you're like,
00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:34.610
I think our system maybe jeopardizes the traditional
00:37:34.610 --> 00:37:36.650
broker system a little bit. But I also sit there
00:37:36.650 --> 00:37:38.710
and I think if the broker's doing their job correctly
00:37:38.710 --> 00:37:42.210
and taking a reasonable cut and setting up good
00:37:42.210 --> 00:37:44.170
solutions for the company, they don't have anything
00:37:44.170 --> 00:37:45.829
to worry about because we're just doing the same
00:37:45.829 --> 00:37:47.949
thing. But if the broker's taking some huge cut
00:37:47.949 --> 00:37:50.650
and affecting the ability for that material to
00:37:50.650 --> 00:37:53.269
get recycled easier because they're sitting in
00:37:53.269 --> 00:37:55.949
the middle of taking this large chunk, like I'd
00:37:55.949 --> 00:37:57.550
be a little bit concerned. You know what I mean?
00:37:58.130 --> 00:38:02.400
And so I think that you build culture into what
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:04.980
we're doing. And when you do math and culture
00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:07.840
and communication and truth, that's just really
00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:10.760
hard to beat. And so from a large company's perspective,
00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:12.980
there are times that I wish large companies would
00:38:12.980 --> 00:38:15.280
realize they're really inefficient and shitty
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:16.900
what they do in a lot of ways, because they've
00:38:16.900 --> 00:38:19.280
got all these layers of management and approval
00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.300
and cost and things like that. And you look at
00:38:22.300 --> 00:38:24.719
the advantages of a big business, it's that they're
00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:26.860
highly capitalized, they're highly resourced,
00:38:26.860 --> 00:38:29.000
right? They just got all the money in the world.
00:38:29.210 --> 00:38:30.909
You look at small business and you're like, they
00:38:30.909 --> 00:38:32.869
can do things better. They're leaner. They'll
00:38:32.869 --> 00:38:35.230
stay for 16 hours. They'll do all these things,
00:38:35.590 --> 00:38:37.610
but they don't have the same resources and capital.
00:38:37.650 --> 00:38:39.530
So they spin in circles all day, right? Like
00:38:39.530 --> 00:38:41.369
the owners are just like, I'm this guy, that
00:38:41.369 --> 00:38:43.590
guy, this guy, that guy. And it's like, I don't
00:38:43.590 --> 00:38:45.449
know what I did today because I did 20 things.
00:38:45.550 --> 00:38:47.289
I'm like that all the time right now, right?
00:38:47.909 --> 00:38:50.230
And so if you can go to those small businesses,
00:38:50.349 --> 00:38:52.750
like I said, and provide resources and tools
00:38:52.750 --> 00:38:55.170
for them to sort of do better at what they're
00:38:55.170 --> 00:38:57.519
doing. You can go to the big businesses and say,
00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:00.039
our network can handle this more efficiently,
00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:02.260
more cost -effectively than yours could, and
00:39:02.260 --> 00:39:04.320
our job is just to get it done well for you.
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:07.519
So if your stuff is in that area, normally I
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:09.179
would be like, how much business can we drive
00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:11.900
to direct polymers? And now it's like, go give
00:39:11.900 --> 00:39:14.460
it to Will. If it's over there, go give it to
00:39:14.460 --> 00:39:16.679
SEB. If it's over there, go give it to them,
00:39:16.739 --> 00:39:18.539
because that's what's going to be able to allow
00:39:18.539 --> 00:39:20.980
us to provide the best solution for the company.
00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:24.139
And then if they do use us as a point of contact,
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:27.760
we can provide that traceability. We can be transparent
00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:29.920
about where these things are going. We can talk
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:32.820
about why things aren't working, why things are
00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:34.380
working, right? Cause that's what's going to
00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:36.920
make this better is like the communication and
00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:39.639
the transparency about the hurdles that exist
00:39:39.639 --> 00:39:42.320
for why they don't or, Hey, we were doing this
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:43.800
and we're seeing great success and we should
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:45.559
do more of it. And then we should go deploy it
00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:47.800
in other areas. And that's the other thing that's
00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:50.059
beneficial about what we're doing. I've been.
00:39:50.349 --> 00:39:53.610
promoting more pilot type stuff, where it's like,
00:39:53.849 --> 00:39:56.369
instead of just throwing legislation in there
00:39:56.369 --> 00:39:58.150
and being like, we're going to go from this to
00:39:58.150 --> 00:39:59.550
that. And you have to do all of these things
00:39:59.550 --> 00:40:02.170
or we're going to charge you. It's like, why
00:40:02.170 --> 00:40:04.570
don't we identify some opportunities that we
00:40:04.570 --> 00:40:06.809
can play with it a little bit and bring it to
00:40:06.809 --> 00:40:09.530
a couple of plants. And then if it works well,
00:40:09.889 --> 00:40:12.409
we'll scale it to the other plants. And if it
00:40:12.409 --> 00:40:15.010
doesn't, we'll try to refine it. And then if
00:40:15.010 --> 00:40:17.489
we can't refine it, we go back and say, you're
00:40:17.489 --> 00:40:19.070
going to have a lot of problems getting this
00:40:19.070 --> 00:40:21.869
done. You know what I mean? And so there's like
00:40:21.869 --> 00:40:24.750
that level of let's try it first and figure it
00:40:24.750 --> 00:40:27.150
out instead of just trying to scale it to like
00:40:27.150 --> 00:40:29.949
this national level and adding 500 people that
00:40:29.949 --> 00:40:33.210
are going to audit and check and do all these
00:40:33.210 --> 00:40:35.210
things that are just going to cost more money
00:40:35.210 --> 00:40:37.949
and make it more of a liability than anything.
00:40:38.250 --> 00:40:40.829
You want to make it efficient and lean so that
00:40:40.829 --> 00:40:43.369
it can compete for market share. If you have
00:40:43.369 --> 00:40:46.309
to take you with me to Sacramento next time I
00:40:46.309 --> 00:40:49.949
go, so you can talk to all the. legislators there
00:40:49.949 --> 00:40:53.050
and be like, here's what not to do, California
00:40:53.050 --> 00:40:57.230
SB 54. Here's what to do. Let's make some connections
00:40:57.230 --> 00:40:59.650
and let's try to solve it, like really solve
00:40:59.650 --> 00:41:02.690
it. Let's not just put these blanket numbers
00:41:02.690 --> 00:41:05.909
out there that are unrealistic. And honestly,
00:41:07.250 --> 00:41:09.570
it's just never gonna happen, because none of
00:41:09.570 --> 00:41:12.969
these people get it. None of these people understand
00:41:12.969 --> 00:41:15.869
recycling. A lot of people think they understand
00:41:15.869 --> 00:41:18.860
recycling, but until you do it, Until you're
00:41:18.860 --> 00:41:22.559
in it You just don't get the complexities of
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:25.119
it And you think you can just make a law that's
00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:27.420
gonna solve it all and it's just not gonna work
00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:31.559
It just never has worked and it never will work
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:38.019
unless People change people have to change and
00:41:38.019 --> 00:41:42.079
I don't see a lot of Americans lining up to change
00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:45.539
recently. I don't know about you two, but People
00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:47.900
are pretty set in their ways right now. They're
00:41:47.900 --> 00:41:50.440
like, this is my way and I don't care what anybody
00:41:50.440 --> 00:41:55.340
else has to say. I agree with everything you're
00:41:55.340 --> 00:42:00.639
saying. I still think that we need to find a
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:07.440
way to amplify and get the right conversations
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:13.800
to happen. Not just at like the business level.
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:17.139
But we do need to go a step beyond that, to actually
00:42:17.139 --> 00:42:21.699
have this message get to legislators that are
00:42:21.699 --> 00:42:27.199
focused on solving for recycling. Because this
00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:28.900
is the kind of conversation that needs to happen
00:42:28.900 --> 00:42:32.000
if we really want to get better at this. And
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:35.380
it's just not happening today. And I honestly
00:42:35.380 --> 00:42:37.000
don't know how to fix it. I don't know if either
00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:41.519
of you two have ideas on how to do that, but
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:50.550
I don't. I'm at a loss. Yeah, I do. All right,
00:42:50.610 --> 00:42:58.809
we'll go. Run with it. I mean, honestly. I know
00:42:58.809 --> 00:43:01.110
what we're doing is really smart. We run models
00:43:01.110 --> 00:43:02.710
to it all the time. I'm not saying that in a
00:43:02.710 --> 00:43:04.889
cocky way, like we run real math to this all
00:43:04.889 --> 00:43:06.769
the time, and I know that it works. So no matter
00:43:06.769 --> 00:43:09.309
what, I know that as we continue with it, like
00:43:09.309 --> 00:43:11.590
it's going to continue to work because it's math.
00:43:11.820 --> 00:43:14.079
you can't argue against it. It's numbers and
00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:17.119
the numbers are accurate. And so I think you
00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:18.860
just kind of need to raise hell. But in a way
00:43:18.860 --> 00:43:22.900
that isn't being a prick about it, you go out
00:43:22.900 --> 00:43:25.619
and you get really loud. And that's why I said
00:43:25.619 --> 00:43:29.500
media can help. But I also think that our ability
00:43:29.500 --> 00:43:33.079
to participate in that larger system better,
00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:36.239
because we're all the hurdle that we have is
00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:40.019
everybody's busy running a plant. And I took
00:43:40.019 --> 00:43:44.780
a decade of my life plus to like build a plant
00:43:44.780 --> 00:43:47.539
from scratch and like do the money route and
00:43:47.539 --> 00:43:52.420
like grow and grow and grow. And I think that
00:43:52.420 --> 00:43:54.380
level of discontent that I talked about, whether
00:43:54.380 --> 00:43:57.179
it be workers or the economy or whatever it is,
00:43:57.340 --> 00:43:59.179
it kind of makes you realize like you can keep
00:43:59.179 --> 00:44:00.619
doing this and trying to make all this money
00:44:00.619 --> 00:44:03.820
that you want. But like, if things continue on
00:44:03.820 --> 00:44:05.719
this path, it doesn't matter. Like my dollar
00:44:05.719 --> 00:44:08.960
is going to be worth half as much in 10 years.
00:44:09.150 --> 00:44:11.369
So I'm going to need to go make another $5 million
00:44:11.369 --> 00:44:14.389
in order to just be where I'm at today. Right.
00:44:15.110 --> 00:44:19.289
And that makes me want to go get loud. And that's
00:44:19.289 --> 00:44:21.090
beneficial and it's not beneficial because it
00:44:21.090 --> 00:44:23.210
doesn't make me want to manage my plan as much
00:44:23.210 --> 00:44:27.510
anymore. So I'm working on trying to get some
00:44:27.510 --> 00:44:30.650
help at DP to come in and run this plant because
00:44:30.650 --> 00:44:32.829
I want to be someone that can go get in front
00:44:32.829 --> 00:44:35.329
of these groups because I'm telling you, we start
00:44:35.329 --> 00:44:38.190
to show them these models. And we start to show
00:44:38.190 --> 00:44:39.969
them some of the deals that we've already done
00:44:39.969 --> 00:44:42.690
and the jobs that we've already done. And like,
00:44:42.769 --> 00:44:46.170
it just works. You know what I mean? And so I
00:44:46.170 --> 00:44:47.750
think it's just kind of raised hell, but in a
00:44:47.750 --> 00:44:51.250
way that's understanding of the fact that they
00:44:51.250 --> 00:44:54.449
don't know what's going on. And it kind of surprises
00:44:54.449 --> 00:44:56.349
me a lot of the time that they don't reach out
00:44:56.349 --> 00:44:59.349
to us. Like, why aren't these companies reaching
00:44:59.349 --> 00:45:01.190
out to the people that - They don't know you
00:45:01.190 --> 00:45:04.110
exist. They don't know you're there. That's the
00:45:04.110 --> 00:45:07.460
problem. These guys - do not understand recycling.
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:09.880
And because of that, they don't know who the
00:45:09.880 --> 00:45:13.219
players are. They know what they're being sold.
00:45:14.019 --> 00:45:18.400
So, Big Broker has contacts at every single one
00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:20.980
of these organizations because they've been doing
00:45:20.980 --> 00:45:26.000
it a long time. They know who to talk to. And
00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:29.739
so, when the person that's managing the waste
00:45:29.739 --> 00:45:33.980
for whatever plant, it's like, oh, we know we
00:45:33.980 --> 00:45:36.639
talked to Broker A. because that's the person
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:39.320
that solves all of our waste problems. They don't
00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:42.119
think, who's a local recycler that I can talk
00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:44.619
to? Because they have no clue. They don't even
00:45:44.619 --> 00:45:46.079
know you're there because they don't have the
00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:49.059
bandwidth, the time, or the desire to figure
00:45:49.059 --> 00:45:52.500
out who else is there. And it's safer for them
00:45:52.500 --> 00:45:55.659
to just keep doing what they're doing. Because
00:45:55.659 --> 00:46:00.780
a lot of these guys, if it fails, they're going
00:46:00.780 --> 00:46:03.300
to get a headline within the company. If it's
00:46:03.300 --> 00:46:08.159
successful, Nobody notices. That's the problem.
00:46:08.440 --> 00:46:12.199
Because these organizations are not giving bonuses
00:46:12.199 --> 00:46:18.920
out for saving money on your recycling. It's
00:46:18.920 --> 00:46:22.900
just not something within their structure. Because
00:46:22.900 --> 00:46:27.199
that's not what is being checked within their
00:46:27.199 --> 00:46:34.489
metrics. So I think the... My thought... and
00:46:34.489 --> 00:46:36.110
something that I've been struggling a lot with
00:46:36.110 --> 00:46:41.889
just with this podcast is how do we get our message
00:46:41.889 --> 00:46:47.929
in front of those people, that plant manager,
00:46:49.389 --> 00:46:52.929
consumers, other people so that it's like, oh
00:46:52.929 --> 00:46:55.630
yeah, these guys are changing recycling. They're
00:46:55.630 --> 00:46:57.710
in it, they're doing it, they want to continue
00:46:57.710 --> 00:47:00.409
to change it. If you've got a problem with recycling,
00:47:00.570 --> 00:47:02.989
reach out to Brave. If you want to know more
00:47:02.989 --> 00:47:07.710
about recycling and plastics issues, listen to
00:47:07.710 --> 00:47:13.630
the Redefining Plastic podcast. It's tough because
00:47:13.630 --> 00:47:16.710
unless you have a budget and you actually can
00:47:16.710 --> 00:47:19.869
mass market, how do you get in front of these
00:47:19.869 --> 00:47:24.389
people? And I struggle with it. I really do because
00:47:24.389 --> 00:47:28.789
I think our message, Brave and Redefining Plastics
00:47:28.789 --> 00:47:31.420
are very similar. and which is why we work so
00:47:31.420 --> 00:47:35.920
well together. And I just don't know how we get
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:39.760
our message in front of the right people. And
00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:42.780
that's the part that I'm really trying to get
00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:45.219
at here, is like how do we, like being loud is
00:47:45.219 --> 00:47:50.380
great. Continuing to talk is great. Talking to
00:47:50.380 --> 00:47:53.500
anybody that you can see, hear, feel, touch,
00:47:53.559 --> 00:47:56.059
whatever, about what it is that you care about,
00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:00.090
it's great. But those aren't the people that
00:48:00.090 --> 00:48:03.110
we need to talk to. We need to get beyond that.
00:48:03.369 --> 00:48:05.969
And I don't know how to put those pieces together.
00:48:06.710 --> 00:48:09.489
I think it's the associations a lot of it. Right?
00:48:09.489 --> 00:48:11.789
Could be. There's a lot of these associations
00:48:11.789 --> 00:48:16.449
that are, you know, they represent a number of
00:48:16.449 --> 00:48:18.969
different companies and groups. And I think getting
00:48:18.969 --> 00:48:20.849
in front of them just to kind of explain what
00:48:20.849 --> 00:48:23.829
we do and show them, you know, the brave package
00:48:23.829 --> 00:48:28.070
and how it works, I think explains to... them
00:48:28.070 --> 00:48:30.929
that the cost of traceability is going to be
00:48:30.929 --> 00:48:33.090
really expensive to them. But really, I just
00:48:33.090 --> 00:48:36.369
think it's getting in front of those people via
00:48:36.369 --> 00:48:40.130
the associations, organizations that are meant
00:48:40.130 --> 00:48:42.349
to rep them. Now, a lot of them are the same
00:48:42.349 --> 00:48:44.230
thing. It's all optics. They don't want to disrupt
00:48:44.230 --> 00:48:46.849
things. And the reason that like what you said,
00:48:47.730 --> 00:48:49.809
an employee, like I said earlier, they're not
00:48:49.809 --> 00:48:51.809
incentivized to actually necessarily do what's
00:48:51.809 --> 00:48:53.730
best for the company. They're incentivized to
00:48:53.730 --> 00:48:56.579
look good and keep their job, right? So a lot
00:48:56.579 --> 00:48:59.340
of the times they don't want to risk taking a
00:48:59.340 --> 00:49:02.380
chance on something that's new because if it
00:49:02.380 --> 00:49:04.039
fails, they lose their job. And like you said,
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:06.340
if they, if it succeeds, like there's not some
00:49:06.340 --> 00:49:08.119
heavy bonus in it for them or something like
00:49:08.119 --> 00:49:10.019
that. Right. Not even a pat on the back in many
00:49:10.019 --> 00:49:12.539
cases. So we have to kind of start from the ground
00:49:12.539 --> 00:49:15.039
up and that's why we're doing more working with
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:18.079
the recycling groups right now, because the recyclers
00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:20.300
also need to realize that the recycling is never
00:49:20.300 --> 00:49:22.320
going to get better unless they're more reliable
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:25.179
and there's more standardization created. and
00:49:25.179 --> 00:49:27.519
more reliability created within the recycling
00:49:27.519 --> 00:49:32.260
world. And most people, you know, from a big
00:49:32.260 --> 00:49:35.079
business perspective, big businesses always feel
00:49:35.079 --> 00:49:37.840
the need to rely on other big businesses. But
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:40.039
that's also why things become more and more costly,
00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:42.059
because like I said, they're layered with costs,
00:49:42.199 --> 00:49:44.760
right? And small businesses aren't, they're lean
00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:46.639
and they're less costly and they can get things
00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:48.840
done. But it's like, how do I know that I can
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:51.500
rely on them? And so when you become, you know,
00:49:51.500 --> 00:49:53.380
I mentioned the union earlier, if you're almost
00:49:53.380 --> 00:49:57.289
like the union rep, But the one that's meant
00:49:57.289 --> 00:50:00.489
to look out for both sides and not be all corrupt,
00:50:00.929 --> 00:50:04.070
internally would be right. It's like we're representing
00:50:04.070 --> 00:50:06.190
this group that knows how to do things and we're
00:50:06.190 --> 00:50:08.489
going to communicate and help them get better.
00:50:08.929 --> 00:50:11.250
And we're here to represent your groups to provide
00:50:11.250 --> 00:50:13.829
guidance and assistance to set up the right systems
00:50:13.829 --> 00:50:16.210
with the people that know how to do it, including
00:50:16.210 --> 00:50:20.190
the compounders too. Like I said, we can take
00:50:20.190 --> 00:50:22.210
a scrap stream that has eight different commodities
00:50:22.210 --> 00:50:25.110
coming out of a plant and send those scrap streams
00:50:25.110 --> 00:50:27.789
in ways to be like, if this is going to be released
00:50:27.789 --> 00:50:29.329
from the plant, we're going to cut a deal with
00:50:29.329 --> 00:50:32.150
the compounder in order to provide first right
00:50:32.150 --> 00:50:34.730
of refusal for that PET to go back to that company
00:50:34.730 --> 00:50:37.010
from their plant, right? There's not enough,
00:50:37.349 --> 00:50:41.289
in my opinion, attention being paid to the PIR,
00:50:41.429 --> 00:50:45.690
PCR conversation. And like the way we've been
00:50:45.690 --> 00:50:48.570
looking at it is more local and regional diversion
00:50:48.570 --> 00:50:52.159
to actually just get things recycled versus whatever
00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:54.019
the title is for this or whatever the title is
00:50:54.019 --> 00:50:56.420
for that, like they're literally the same. So
00:50:56.420 --> 00:50:58.460
as soon as we start realizing that it needs to
00:50:58.460 --> 00:51:01.420
be diverted in like a cost -effective and efficient
00:51:01.420 --> 00:51:05.360
way to compete with the resin market share, you're
00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:08.659
going to see, you know, the ability to compete.
00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:11.500
You're going to see the ability to get more market
00:51:11.500 --> 00:51:13.800
share from the resin people, right? Because they're
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:15.219
going to go do their thing. But when you look
00:51:15.219 --> 00:51:17.019
at what we fight over on the recycling level,
00:51:17.019 --> 00:51:18.880
it's like this tiny little slice of stuff that
00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:20.900
we all fight over. And then you look at the resin
00:51:20.900 --> 00:51:22.980
market share and it's huge. And you're like,
00:51:22.980 --> 00:51:24.619
I don't understand why we're not participating
00:51:24.619 --> 00:51:26.559
more so that we can go after that market share
00:51:26.559 --> 00:51:28.300
because that's going to make everybody busier
00:51:28.300 --> 00:51:31.079
and allow us to all produce more product. Right.
00:51:31.300 --> 00:51:33.420
And so we've been starting more from like that
00:51:33.420 --> 00:51:36.219
grassroots ground up because one of the questions
00:51:36.219 --> 00:51:38.440
that people ask, even I talk to the investment
00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:40.420
world a lot and they're like, how do you get
00:51:40.420 --> 00:51:42.619
small businesses to work together? Like that's
00:51:42.619 --> 00:51:44.940
not an easy thing to do. That's not like something
00:51:44.940 --> 00:51:47.780
you ever hear. It's usually a private equity
00:51:47.780 --> 00:51:51.380
group goes in. And like identifies these small
00:51:51.380 --> 00:51:55.380
businesses to buy them out and consolidate them
00:51:55.380 --> 00:51:57.519
in ways that makes them efficient and makes them
00:51:57.519 --> 00:52:00.920
a larger network. And that's kind of, that's
00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:02.780
kind of why the money always stays with the money.
00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:04.500
And that's why I said in the beginning, we're,
00:52:04.539 --> 00:52:06.820
we define ourselves as like an anti -private
00:52:06.820 --> 00:52:08.460
equity, private equity group, because if you
00:52:08.460 --> 00:52:12.219
can use that same process and be like, these
00:52:12.219 --> 00:52:14.400
companies are small and normally they'd get sold
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:16.920
at a three X, a four X, a six X, whatever it
00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:21.489
is, but coordinated. and improved as a system,
00:52:21.670 --> 00:52:24.869
they're now worth a 14X. Some of what we're doing
00:52:24.869 --> 00:52:27.690
is like, let's just make the plant owners the
00:52:27.690 --> 00:52:30.230
equity people. So we don't need the money layer,
00:52:30.230 --> 00:52:32.409
right? We don't need the five huge money people.
00:52:32.969 --> 00:52:36.050
We can do the equity system with these plants
00:52:36.050 --> 00:52:38.610
and just make them efficient ourselves and drive
00:52:38.610 --> 00:52:40.409
that material to that one because it makes more
00:52:40.409 --> 00:52:42.250
sense. And let's assess the conversion costs
00:52:42.250 --> 00:52:44.769
going on at this one. And let's assess that to
00:52:44.769 --> 00:52:47.750
create this larger scale network. Like I said,
00:52:47.789 --> 00:52:51.210
that provides the businesses with access to economies
00:52:51.210 --> 00:52:53.369
of scale that they wouldn't have, but still allows
00:52:53.369 --> 00:52:55.269
them to own and operate their plants like they
00:52:55.269 --> 00:52:58.989
normally would. So if you look at a pool of money
00:52:58.989 --> 00:53:01.309
at these businesses, it's like, this is my pool
00:53:01.309 --> 00:53:03.070
of money at Direct Polymers. This is the pool
00:53:03.070 --> 00:53:05.230
of money over here. Normally I'm just a hundred
00:53:05.230 --> 00:53:08.030
percent here. But if you can provide them access
00:53:08.030 --> 00:53:10.269
to basically say you have ownership in this larger
00:53:10.269 --> 00:53:12.929
umbrella that allows us to compete together at
00:53:12.929 --> 00:53:15.929
larger scale, and we're co -vested in that. and
00:53:15.929 --> 00:53:17.530
then you own and operate your plant like you
00:53:17.530 --> 00:53:19.269
normally would, it's almost like two separate
00:53:19.269 --> 00:53:22.130
investments, right? And so you have a dividend
00:53:22.130 --> 00:53:23.929
structure that comes from the larger one going
00:53:23.929 --> 00:53:26.389
to the smaller ones, but now you have all these
00:53:26.389 --> 00:53:28.489
working arms, like if you had a national footprint
00:53:28.489 --> 00:53:31.369
and you can improve them and you can increase
00:53:31.369 --> 00:53:33.969
their value and you can increase their sales
00:53:33.969 --> 00:53:35.789
and you can make them more efficient and you
00:53:35.789 --> 00:53:37.929
can help them identify things that are occurring
00:53:37.929 --> 00:53:39.730
at their plant that shouldn't even be happening,
00:53:40.070 --> 00:53:41.570
right? Like some of these people are handling
00:53:41.570 --> 00:53:43.250
20 % of the material that they shouldn't even
00:53:43.250 --> 00:53:46.929
be taking. And it's crazy to me because I have
00:53:46.929 --> 00:53:48.409
a lot of experience in the investment world.
00:53:48.530 --> 00:53:50.289
Mitch Vest has a lot of experience in the investment
00:53:50.289 --> 00:53:52.250
world. And we think kind of like on that money
00:53:52.250 --> 00:53:54.170
world level, and you see a lot of the small business
00:53:54.170 --> 00:53:56.170
owners and operators, and they're just trying
00:53:56.170 --> 00:53:57.889
to run their business every day. And they're
00:53:57.889 --> 00:53:59.469
just trying to get live for the month. And some
00:53:59.469 --> 00:54:00.809
of them don't know their books and some of them
00:54:00.809 --> 00:54:03.289
don't understand how the conversion cost is working
00:54:03.289 --> 00:54:05.710
at their plant or like where they could be more
00:54:05.710 --> 00:54:08.329
efficient, right? Where they could standardize
00:54:08.329 --> 00:54:10.610
their safety practices better or like deploy
00:54:10.610 --> 00:54:13.510
better safety practices so that the larger corporations
00:54:13.510 --> 00:54:15.510
will feel more comfortable working with them.
00:54:15.929 --> 00:54:18.510
Cleanliness is a huge thing in recycling. Like
00:54:18.510 --> 00:54:22.369
actually having a clean facility, because that's
00:54:22.369 --> 00:54:25.289
not something you see in recycling very often.
00:54:25.869 --> 00:54:28.730
And if you want to work with the big brands,
00:54:29.150 --> 00:54:30.429
the first thing they're going to do is they're
00:54:30.429 --> 00:54:31.929
going to want to audit your plant. And they're
00:54:31.929 --> 00:54:33.510
going to want to see that you have the safety.
00:54:33.849 --> 00:54:36.190
They're going to want to see that you have environmental
00:54:36.190 --> 00:54:39.170
standards, that everything's clean, that everything's
00:54:39.170 --> 00:54:43.380
traceable. And if you're not doing that, you're
00:54:43.380 --> 00:54:46.719
not gonna get this business. And those are the
00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:49.820
things that you guys are doing. And that's the
00:54:49.820 --> 00:54:53.079
stuff that nobody talks about. And that's where
00:54:53.079 --> 00:54:57.800
I wanna continue to highlight how actually this
00:54:57.800 --> 00:55:01.119
is game changing for the recycling industry.
00:55:01.739 --> 00:55:05.940
I think that's what I titled the first conversation
00:55:05.940 --> 00:55:09.389
we had. It was like changing the game, the industry
00:55:09.389 --> 00:55:12.389
game with Brave Industries or something like
00:55:12.389 --> 00:55:16.389
that. I don't know. But it really is that. We're
00:55:16.389 --> 00:55:22.050
talking about a holistic shift in how we do recycling
00:55:22.050 --> 00:55:26.730
in the U .S. Not everybody look out for themselves.
00:55:26.849 --> 00:55:30.550
The whole, what is that, beautiful mind deal.
00:55:32.230 --> 00:55:34.210
Not everybody going for the most beautiful woman
00:55:34.210 --> 00:55:36.659
in the room. The Nash equilibrium. Yeah. And
00:55:36.659 --> 00:55:40.760
that is, it is, right? It's like, so yeah, what
00:55:40.760 --> 00:55:43.099
Justin's talking about is, you know, in a beautiful
00:55:43.099 --> 00:55:46.780
mind, you get four guys playing pool. You get
00:55:46.780 --> 00:55:50.019
five women walk through the door and they talk
00:55:50.019 --> 00:55:53.659
about how all the attention goes to the hot blonde,
00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:57.219
right? All four men look at the hot blonde and
00:55:57.219 --> 00:55:59.579
they're like, we want to go for her. And that's
00:55:59.579 --> 00:56:03.300
kind of why the world works the way it does because
00:56:03.300 --> 00:56:06.300
their probability of doing anything with that
00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:09.320
is very minimal, right? They might all strike
00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:12.920
out. And if you start to look at it in a way
00:56:12.920 --> 00:56:15.519
where you're like, all right, if we were to dismiss
00:56:15.519 --> 00:56:19.239
looking at her, there's four other friends who
00:56:19.239 --> 00:56:21.699
aren't getting any attention, everybody gets
00:56:21.699 --> 00:56:23.639
laid, right? And so like, that's what he says.
00:56:23.659 --> 00:56:25.519
And that's how he developed the math equilibrium.
00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:28.940
And he actually won a Nobel Prize for that, for
00:56:28.940 --> 00:56:32.380
the record. Obviously it was a little more math
00:56:32.380 --> 00:56:34.239
involved, but that's where the idea came from.
00:56:35.420 --> 00:56:41.519
100%. Yeah, 100%. The crazy thing about Nash
00:56:41.519 --> 00:56:45.139
equilibrium is it works the best. It's like you
00:56:45.139 --> 00:56:47.320
put your oxygen mask on, look out for yourself,
00:56:47.360 --> 00:56:49.000
but then you look out for the group around you
00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:51.659
to make the best decision based on both. The
00:56:51.659 --> 00:56:56.199
reason that that never occurs is because human
00:56:56.199 --> 00:56:58.300
behavior is to always go for the blonde regardless.
00:56:58.699 --> 00:57:02.429
We're very self -interested kind of beings. But
00:57:02.429 --> 00:57:04.590
when you can incentivize to go for the other
00:57:04.590 --> 00:57:06.909
ones, right? And that's what I'm saying we've
00:57:06.909 --> 00:57:10.289
done. We've built a very legitimate framework
00:57:10.289 --> 00:57:13.969
and like a black and white system to be like,
00:57:14.230 --> 00:57:17.030
we're incentivized to participate together in
00:57:17.030 --> 00:57:21.469
a way that improves us, is legal, and like can
00:57:21.469 --> 00:57:25.070
allow us to go compete. I'm telling you, Nan,
00:57:25.150 --> 00:57:28.380
it... If you take a big business at national
00:57:28.380 --> 00:57:30.340
scale and they've got all those layers of costs,
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:32.800
and then you take small businesses and run that
00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:35.300
private equity type model to them, what they're
00:57:35.300 --> 00:57:36.980
still owning and operating and receiving the
00:57:36.980 --> 00:57:39.480
value out of that, we don't have all those layers
00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:42.380
of costs. We can make decisions in five minutes,
00:57:42.380 --> 00:57:47.139
right? And so like, we got asked one time for,
00:57:47.380 --> 00:57:49.460
like Rick Demko brought us this thing. I won't
00:57:49.460 --> 00:57:51.059
say which company it was, but he was like, this
00:57:51.059 --> 00:57:54.039
company wants to do these things at 22 locations.
00:57:55.729 --> 00:57:59.449
And in like 18 hours, we got back to them and
00:57:59.449 --> 00:58:00.869
we were like, okay, here's what we could do.
00:58:01.469 --> 00:58:03.210
Because we picked up the phone and we were like,
00:58:03.210 --> 00:58:04.829
hey, three of these locations are over here,
00:58:04.849 --> 00:58:06.550
let's go call Will. Three of these locations
00:58:06.550 --> 00:58:08.650
are over here, who would we go to? Three of these
00:58:08.650 --> 00:58:10.389
are here. And that's kind of what a consultant
00:58:10.389 --> 00:58:12.630
or a broker would normally do, but they don't
00:58:12.630 --> 00:58:14.909
have any influence over the infrastructure and
00:58:14.909 --> 00:58:17.530
their job is like bid one person as low as they
00:58:17.530 --> 00:58:19.829
can to get it and go try to sell it as high as
00:58:19.829 --> 00:58:21.969
they can. You sell it first and then you buy.
00:58:22.449 --> 00:58:24.809
And when your job is to be low. When your job
00:58:24.809 --> 00:58:26.750
is to be like, we make money, but we do it in
00:58:26.750 --> 00:58:29.449
a fair, equitable way. And like the plants that
00:58:29.449 --> 00:58:31.489
are doing the work should receive the majority
00:58:31.489 --> 00:58:34.650
of that share. And this group that we're going
00:58:34.650 --> 00:58:36.969
to should get the best value proposal that they
00:58:36.969 --> 00:58:39.710
can. That's what I meant about like transparency
00:58:39.710 --> 00:58:41.389
and truth. It's a lot different than what we're
00:58:41.389 --> 00:58:42.969
doing today. It's like, we don't want to sell
00:58:42.969 --> 00:58:45.230
you. We want to be here as like your agent to
00:58:45.230 --> 00:58:47.889
get things done in a way where we really can
00:58:47.889 --> 00:58:51.340
control some infrastructure. and have not even
00:58:51.340 --> 00:58:53.420
control, have influence over the infrastructure
00:58:53.420 --> 00:58:56.079
to provide options to make it as best as it can
00:58:56.079 --> 00:59:00.059
be. Right. And I just think that with the math
00:59:00.059 --> 00:59:02.800
that we're looking at, it's significant because
00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:04.860
we have seen improvements with every plant we've
00:59:04.860 --> 00:59:07.159
worked with and the plants are happier. It's
00:59:07.159 --> 00:59:09.780
crazy when you start building culture that makes
00:59:09.780 --> 00:59:12.260
people more trusting and like makes them want
00:59:12.260 --> 00:59:14.239
to participate together. They're also happier
00:59:14.239 --> 00:59:16.280
with what they're doing, which makes them perform
00:59:16.280 --> 00:59:17.840
better and want to do more of it. You know what
00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:20.480
I mean? And it drives kind of this contagious
00:59:20.480 --> 00:59:22.800
energy that's like, I want to go, I want to go
00:59:22.800 --> 00:59:24.639
to work every day. And that's what people should
00:59:24.639 --> 00:59:26.699
do with their jobs is wake up and be like, I
00:59:26.699 --> 00:59:29.719
want to go to work every day. I feel like I'm
00:59:29.719 --> 00:59:31.940
getting compensated and appreciated in the way
00:59:31.940 --> 00:59:34.099
that I should be. You know what I mean? And we're
00:59:34.099 --> 00:59:35.659
trying to trickle that all the way down in these
00:59:35.659 --> 00:59:37.659
plants at some point, all the way down to the
00:59:37.659 --> 00:59:39.900
working floor. You know, I know Mitch is doing
00:59:39.900 --> 00:59:42.719
it right now out on the East coast. He's looking
00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:44.760
at putting a profit share program in for the,
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:47.619
for the employees on the floor. And you should.
00:59:48.269 --> 00:59:50.269
Because they're going to do better, too, and
00:59:50.269 --> 00:59:52.550
want to come to work. And if you would start
00:59:52.550 --> 00:59:54.690
trying to build that culture and then bridging
00:59:54.690 --> 00:59:57.250
these layers together, I'm telling you, it will
00:59:57.250 --> 01:00:01.869
fix this whole system. You've talked before about
01:00:01.869 --> 01:00:08.530
the family atmosphere of Brave. I think that's
01:00:08.530 --> 01:00:11.510
a huge selling point, too. You want to talk a
01:00:11.510 --> 01:00:13.630
little bit about where you were coming from when
01:00:13.630 --> 01:00:15.050
you were talking about that? Because I think
01:00:15.050 --> 01:00:17.650
that's helpful for people to put all these pieces
01:00:17.650 --> 01:00:19.869
together. Not only can these people solve it
01:00:19.869 --> 01:00:24.530
for you, but it's truly an atmosphere that can
01:00:24.530 --> 01:00:27.829
get things done, people work together. Yeah,
01:00:27.989 --> 01:00:32.190
I think I even told you, I've been with Direct
01:00:32.190 --> 01:00:35.230
Polymers, and Brave was a little later, but whatever.
01:00:35.869 --> 01:00:40.719
About a year, almost exactly now. around Halloween,
01:00:40.840 --> 01:00:43.960
actually, which is cute. But when I literally,
01:00:44.820 --> 01:00:47.000
before I even started my first day, I think it
01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:50.860
was like a little gap. I got a huge bouquet of
01:00:50.860 --> 01:00:54.360
flowers at my apartment from Adam, and it was
01:00:54.360 --> 01:00:57.300
my birthday, is the 4th of November, and it was
01:00:57.300 --> 01:00:59.780
a birthday bouquet and saying welcome to the
01:00:59.780 --> 01:01:02.260
team and we're so excited and happy birthday.
01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:04.199
And it was like one of those real, like it came
01:01:04.199 --> 01:01:07.860
with a glass vase kind of flowers. And I remember
01:01:07.860 --> 01:01:11.380
I was like... Just in previous jobs, you know,
01:01:12.320 --> 01:01:15.139
which is an abnormal. It's just a job. Like you
01:01:15.139 --> 01:01:18.820
just go to work and the culture is so -so, but
01:01:18.820 --> 01:01:22.659
what it's like pays the bills. I had never like
01:01:22.659 --> 01:01:26.199
experienced, like they appreciated me and I haven't
01:01:26.199 --> 01:01:28.840
even started the position yet. So it was like
01:01:28.840 --> 01:01:31.559
I knew they appreciated me just like as a person.
01:01:32.840 --> 01:01:39.219
So it's just, I had the... family type feel within
01:01:39.219 --> 01:01:42.800
direct polymers of Adam and Dave and Mitch. But
01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:46.059
then once we expanded a little bit with like
01:01:46.059 --> 01:01:48.179
Alex Mum, he's like - You've talked a lot about
01:01:48.179 --> 01:01:50.880
Alex being - Yeah, he and I are like almost too
01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:53.019
similar that sometimes we get a little into it.
01:01:53.380 --> 01:01:56.599
But then, but then it's like we're literally
01:01:56.599 --> 01:01:59.380
like siblings like in like a really good way.
01:02:00.510 --> 01:02:02.789
To now, it's like we've learned past the budding.
01:02:02.829 --> 01:02:05.710
And it's just like we love to work together.
01:02:05.750 --> 01:02:07.989
He's been helping me with materials. And then
01:02:07.989 --> 01:02:13.289
also Will Ross sent out a sample the other day
01:02:13.289 --> 01:02:16.289
because I was the one who found the potential
01:02:16.289 --> 01:02:19.409
buyer. But he had the material. And he was like,
01:02:19.409 --> 01:02:22.070
oh, I put your name on it because this is yours.
01:02:22.349 --> 01:02:26.800
You did this. And I didn't expect it. He sent
01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:29.159
me the tracking info and I'm just like, it's
01:02:29.159 --> 01:02:32.059
like they really care. And I think also it might
01:02:32.059 --> 01:02:35.420
be just because I'm a little younger and I'm
01:02:35.420 --> 01:02:36.679
out of all this. I don't think it's just that.
01:02:36.719 --> 01:02:40.739
A little fish in a big sea of a lot of experienced
01:02:40.739 --> 01:02:45.480
people. But it's just nice because I was so shocked,
01:02:45.940 --> 01:02:47.940
not because I didn't think they would just because
01:02:47.940 --> 01:02:50.239
I hadn't experienced it with Adam and Dave and
01:02:50.239 --> 01:02:52.619
everybody at Drug Polymers. It wasn't just one.
01:02:53.039 --> 01:02:56.460
And then it was even more amazing to come into
01:02:56.460 --> 01:03:02.500
these other companies. I went to Denver a few
01:03:02.500 --> 01:03:04.900
months ago with everybody, that big photo I just
01:03:04.900 --> 01:03:07.619
posted for Mitchell's birthday. And it's all
01:03:07.619 --> 01:03:11.699
of those guys. They asked me, we went to Dave
01:03:11.699 --> 01:03:13.500
and Buster's, and I was talking to all of them.
01:03:13.519 --> 01:03:15.920
They care about my life and what I'm doing, and
01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:18.460
they remember what I told them three months ago.
01:03:19.219 --> 01:03:22.780
So it's just nice to work with a group that...
01:03:22.829 --> 01:03:25.590
cares about your career so much, but also, like,
01:03:25.590 --> 01:03:28.570
they could drop everything and help you with
01:03:28.570 --> 01:03:31.030
your personal life, too. Like, it's not just,
01:03:31.030 --> 01:03:32.929
like, they want you to, like, get a deal for
01:03:32.929 --> 01:03:34.690
them, but they're like, how is that thing you
01:03:34.690 --> 01:03:36.849
told me about six months ago? You know what I
01:03:36.849 --> 01:03:39.909
mean? Like, they really pay attention, and it's
01:03:39.909 --> 01:03:42.150
nice because you have so many people who have
01:03:42.150 --> 01:03:45.750
my back. And I think that's a good way to talk
01:03:45.750 --> 01:03:51.969
about brave. Like, if you are a potential partner,
01:03:52.090 --> 01:03:55.849
for brave, like you're somebody that has waste.
01:03:56.309 --> 01:03:58.449
Right. That's the kind of environment that you'd
01:03:58.449 --> 01:04:00.550
be walking into. Yeah. And it's like if somebody
01:04:00.550 --> 01:04:05.769
does one of our people wrong, it's like you just
01:04:05.769 --> 01:04:08.809
made a whole lot of enemies. You know, like we
01:04:08.809 --> 01:04:12.389
have each other's backs. So it's like. It's just
01:04:12.389 --> 01:04:14.389
one of those things where it's kind of like he
01:04:14.389 --> 01:04:16.769
did him, you know, like it's just like we it
01:04:16.769 --> 01:04:19.969
is like a family in a very appropriate culture
01:04:19.969 --> 01:04:22.920
setting, but it is like you. we have each other's
01:04:22.920 --> 01:04:24.860
backs and I think that's the whole point is that
01:04:24.860 --> 01:04:27.619
like even somebody even the other day was like
01:04:27.619 --> 01:04:30.219
I'll do it this this and this just because it'll
01:04:30.219 --> 01:04:32.079
make it easier for you even though I lose a few
01:04:32.079 --> 01:04:35.860
cents and like I didn't even ask like I didn't
01:04:35.860 --> 01:04:37.400
even really make it sound like it was hard for
01:04:37.400 --> 01:04:40.320
me he was just like in my head that was really
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:42.880
confusing so I'll just drop do this way and I'll
01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:44.760
lose a few pennies but like it'll make it easier
01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:48.050
for you And I was like, okay. That's how you
01:04:48.050 --> 01:04:49.949
make business work in this country. Yeah, and
01:04:49.949 --> 01:04:52.809
it was unexpected just because you don't, people
01:04:52.809 --> 01:04:54.829
don't do that because they don't care. But they
01:04:54.829 --> 01:04:56.429
were like, you know what, I know you got me next
01:04:56.429 --> 01:04:59.349
time. Like I know that I'll get that back. Like
01:04:59.349 --> 01:05:02.050
Seth talked about that a lot, working with Will.
01:05:03.750 --> 01:05:07.369
It's constant within this group is that everybody's
01:05:07.369 --> 01:05:09.449
got each other's backs. Everybody's working to
01:05:09.449 --> 01:05:13.070
the same goal, which is mutual success out of
01:05:13.070 --> 01:05:16.239
everybody. And if there's mutual success, within
01:05:16.239 --> 01:05:19.679
Brave, that means there's mutual success in increasing
01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:23.679
recycling and there's mutual success for whoever
01:05:23.679 --> 01:05:27.639
brand owner that's out there could possibly be
01:05:27.639 --> 01:05:32.219
creating real circular systems. And that's what
01:05:32.219 --> 01:05:37.139
we need. And I will die on that hill. We need
01:05:37.139 --> 01:05:40.360
that. And right now it ain't happening. I think
01:05:40.360 --> 01:05:43.340
people think, people probably think I'm kind
01:05:43.340 --> 01:05:45.320
of crazy, but people think we're a little bit
01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:47.920
nuts. times, right, as a group. Yeah, and I am
01:05:47.920 --> 01:05:50.699
a little bit, but. Yeah, it's OK. So like we
01:05:50.699 --> 01:05:52.719
post those pictures of Sparta and people are
01:05:52.719 --> 01:05:55.780
like, what is going on? And I'm like, I'm like,
01:05:55.800 --> 01:05:58.780
that's me. Rage against the machine songs all
01:05:58.780 --> 01:06:01.880
the time. And I love it. I absolutely love it
01:06:01.880 --> 01:06:03.360
because then I'll just be rocking out for like
01:06:03.360 --> 01:06:05.239
the next 10 minutes. Yeah. I mean, we're trying
01:06:05.239 --> 01:06:06.860
to create a culture that's fun. Right. But it
01:06:06.860 --> 01:06:10.119
also when you look at it in reality, you're like,
01:06:10.199 --> 01:06:13.380
that's 300 people that can take on 20 ,000. And
01:06:13.380 --> 01:06:15.900
it's only because. they're looking out for each
01:06:15.900 --> 01:06:18.440
other. Right. It's like, as long as I know that
01:06:18.440 --> 01:06:20.099
person and this person are going to do the same
01:06:20.099 --> 01:06:22.239
thing that I am. And as soon as it fails on one
01:06:22.239 --> 01:06:25.780
side, you got big failures. Right. So it's really
01:06:25.780 --> 01:06:27.480
important to this group to be like, if we're
01:06:27.480 --> 01:06:30.400
going to succeed as a group and maybe our culture,
01:06:30.440 --> 01:06:34.260
like I said, is more equitable capitalism. It's
01:06:34.260 --> 01:06:40.780
like we don't want to create. Any like. 300 billionaires,
01:06:41.260 --> 01:06:43.900
we want to go create like. 30, 10 millionaires.
01:06:44.099 --> 01:06:45.920
You know what I mean? Because I think we're all
01:06:45.920 --> 01:06:48.059
pretty good going, we can go enjoy life and have
01:06:48.059 --> 01:06:50.119
fun and do things and look out for each other
01:06:50.119 --> 01:06:54.159
and enjoy this process. But we do emphasize work
01:06:54.159 --> 01:06:56.559
and money and all the same things that you normally
01:06:56.559 --> 01:06:58.599
would. You know what I mean? It's just a different
01:06:58.599 --> 01:07:02.280
way to do it. It's a more fun way to do it. And
01:07:02.280 --> 01:07:05.059
I mean, it does work because you're like, if
01:07:05.059 --> 01:07:06.800
you build a team like that, you can compete.
01:07:06.920 --> 01:07:08.619
You can do really good when you're all looking
01:07:08.619 --> 01:07:10.539
out for each other. You know what I mean? Especially
01:07:10.539 --> 01:07:13.260
when you can create ways to vest with each other.
01:07:13.719 --> 01:07:16.039
They're formally agreed upon among everyone.
01:07:16.260 --> 01:07:19.119
And then yeah, man, like sometimes people just
01:07:19.119 --> 01:07:20.940
have to help people. You know what I mean? The
01:07:20.940 --> 01:07:23.199
whole trust thing with the amount of people that
01:07:23.199 --> 01:07:25.920
we have now that we kind of work with. There's
01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:28.360
never like been a, I don't think we've ever had
01:07:28.360 --> 01:07:33.219
a situation where someone like did us wrong in
01:07:33.219 --> 01:07:35.519
our group. Maybe I'm wrong and I wasn't told,
01:07:35.679 --> 01:07:39.530
but. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Because everyone
01:07:39.530 --> 01:07:41.429
knows. Like I said, they're like, you'll get
01:07:41.429 --> 01:07:44.969
me, I'll get you. And it's always been a very
01:07:44.969 --> 01:07:49.469
loyal team that we kind of built our family.
01:07:49.630 --> 01:07:51.250
Yeah. Well, the beauty of it is, too, we have
01:07:51.250 --> 01:07:53.150
screwed up, right? People have screwed up. People
01:07:53.150 --> 01:07:54.449
have gotten in a little argument. Oh, yeah. It's
01:07:54.449 --> 01:07:56.010
going to happen. We're human beings. But you
01:07:56.010 --> 01:07:59.590
have to be able to approach that and discuss
01:07:59.590 --> 01:08:01.710
it. You talk about family. If you get in a fight
01:08:01.710 --> 01:08:04.409
with your brother, you don't just be like, I
01:08:04.409 --> 01:08:06.349
don't talk to my brother anymore, right? You
01:08:06.349 --> 01:08:08.590
do the same thing at work. And it's like you
01:08:08.590 --> 01:08:11.630
just learn from what happened and then it's like,
01:08:11.809 --> 01:08:14.590
okay, next time, this way, this way, and then
01:08:14.590 --> 01:08:17.329
prevents it for the future. All right, two truths
01:08:17.329 --> 01:08:20.569
and a lie. Okay, I'll say them again and then
01:08:20.569 --> 01:08:22.529
you guys have to guess. And then I'll tell you
01:08:22.529 --> 01:08:24.770
which one it was. Okay, I'm going to say them
01:08:24.770 --> 01:08:26.710
out of order this time so it gets a little confusing.
01:08:27.970 --> 01:08:30.350
Okay, a team in Japan discovered a strain of
01:08:30.350 --> 01:08:32.670
bacteria that can break down PET plastic in less
01:08:32.670 --> 01:08:35.989
than 24 hours. I think that's it. Canada has
01:08:35.989 --> 01:08:38.289
officially implemented a national two -week paid
01:08:38.289 --> 01:08:40.630
climate leave policy for workers affected by
01:08:40.630 --> 01:08:43.689
extreme weather. Or Taylor Swift's The Tortured
01:08:43.689 --> 01:08:45.529
Poets Department just became the first album
01:08:45.529 --> 01:08:48.369
in Spotify history to hit five billion streams
01:08:48.369 --> 01:08:51.289
in under six months. I'm going to go with the
01:08:51.289 --> 01:08:54.989
plastic one just because I think that's too quick.
01:08:55.149 --> 01:08:57.609
I know there are bacteria that break down plastics,
01:08:57.649 --> 01:09:00.710
but I don't think it would be that quick. OK.
01:09:01.029 --> 01:09:03.090
Adam, do you have a guess on which one's the
01:09:03.090 --> 01:09:06.159
lie? I'm going to go with that one, too, but
01:09:06.159 --> 01:09:10.579
I don't know if it was Japan. I want to say I
01:09:10.579 --> 01:09:13.560
heard a different area had something doing that.
01:09:14.199 --> 01:09:15.819
Well, this has been around for like 20 years.
01:09:16.159 --> 01:09:19.020
May I also mention that I only have the one that's
01:09:19.020 --> 01:09:22.020
a lie, and I can't explain any others. Farron.
01:09:23.159 --> 01:09:25.199
We don't go with Taylor Swift. We know you're
01:09:25.199 --> 01:09:27.659
going to have that all day, Sam. Yeah, that one's
01:09:27.659 --> 01:09:32.159
true, obviously. The lie is that Canada has not.
01:09:34.519 --> 01:09:40.359
implemented a climate leave policy. Really? Really.
01:09:40.560 --> 01:09:42.619
Well, I guess they don't really have a ton of
01:09:42.619 --> 01:09:45.060
big weather events up there unless you consider
01:09:45.060 --> 01:09:49.239
huge snowfalls. Well, you can't have a leave
01:09:49.239 --> 01:09:51.399
policy when people are working remote. Like,
01:09:51.399 --> 01:09:54.739
just go home and work. Yeah. Also true. All right.
01:09:54.739 --> 01:09:56.979
Well, that's interesting. So they said it was
01:09:56.979 --> 01:10:00.100
within a week that it broke down the... 24 hours.
01:10:00.180 --> 01:10:03.729
24 hours? Mm -hmm. That's all I got, though.
01:10:04.770 --> 01:10:06.729
I'm gonna have to dig into that one, because
01:10:06.729 --> 01:10:10.109
that seems really quick. Anyway. This is just
01:10:10.109 --> 01:10:12.949
Chatchie Peas. This has been a lot of fun. Always,
01:10:12.949 --> 01:10:15.210
always fun talking to you, Adam. I know we're
01:10:15.210 --> 01:10:17.109
gonna continue working together. We got a lot
01:10:17.109 --> 01:10:21.310
of stuff in the hopper. Really excited for the
01:10:21.310 --> 01:10:25.590
future of Brave. Really excited to continue to
01:10:25.590 --> 01:10:28.979
support you guys. And I know that you guys have
01:10:28.979 --> 01:10:31.800
been nothing but a great support to Sam and I
01:10:31.800 --> 01:10:36.720
and this podcast. And long may that continue.
01:10:37.520 --> 01:10:39.659
But for everybody that's out there listening,
01:10:39.859 --> 01:10:42.279
this has been Justin Riney for Samantha Ryan,
01:10:42.539 --> 01:10:44.760
Adam Hill. Have a great night. You want to learn
01:10:44.760 --> 01:10:47.500
more about the plastics industry, recycling,
01:10:47.720 --> 01:10:50.560
check out these other videos. Please like and
01:10:50.560 --> 01:10:51.039
subscribe.