Camille Bataillon, Clinical Sexologist - Sex and Intimacy During and After Pregnancy (#17)

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This is Red Cheeks, and I'm Isabella.
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So I would like to start with the quote that I found on your Instagram, and I would love to hear what you have to say about it.
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So the quote is you don't have the birth you want, you have the birth you need.
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Can you elaborate on this?
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Yes, uh, this sentence uh happens to me like a few days after I gave birth, right?
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And you when you are pregnant, you have this vision of the birth you want to have, you're trying to plan for the best, even though you know midwife are saying, you know, you never know what can happen, you know, it's out of your control.
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So when you're pregnant, you're trying to integrate this, but obviously you don't want to play with the worst scenarios.
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And and I was planning for a physiological birth with no epidural, with trying to have less um medication as possible, and and baby decided uh different, and uh I have to be induced, and I know while being induced, you know, like the labor could be uh the contraction could be harder, faster, and it can be difficult to not have epidural.
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But I finished with no epidural, all right.
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I was uh like okay, I will keep keep on going, keep on going.
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But I had uh some other instruments to try to make the baby out of me, you know, um kind of the forceps, you know.
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Um and at the end, it it ends with uh with the emergency c sections, you know, my worst nightmares, you know.
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I was seeing all my night, why my living all my worst nightmares about the scenario, and I was like, oh my god, this is happening, oh my god, this is what is happening, oh my god, I'm completely like you know, like I'm not controlling anything, right?
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Yeah and at the same time, I was very in peace with all of that.
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I was really silent, you know, I was really focusing because I was living all of this with no epidural, so I have to be very focused.
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Uh, until the C-sections, when I left for C-sections, and I was just like in peace with that.
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I was like, I have done everything I could.
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Now, okay, I want to rest.
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I want to rest, and then I want to welcome my baby being, you know, rested because it was kind of like you know, 10 hours of a big label, so so it was intense.
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And it was not at all the birth that I was planning for, right?
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Yeah.
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And at the same time, I felt like it was the birth that I needed because living all my worst fears and nightmares, I felt even more powerful.
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I felt like a badass after, you know.
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And it was a motto of kind of burning man, which is a big event, you know, in America, which is like you don't leave the burning man you want, you leave the burning man you need.
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Oh, really?
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So sometimes you have a plan and you're like, I really want this.
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But actually, this is not what you need.
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Life is challenging you with the things you need to work on.
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And I took this motto for my birth, and I was, yeah, definitely.
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This is not what I wanted, but this is what I needed to be.
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Like if I was able to live all my nightmare and still feel happy about my birth because I still did it and it was a fucking awesome, then okay, what can happen next, you know?
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And I feel like a lot of strain, a lot of um being very proud of this, and I still couldn't believe it that with all of this, I was living it with no epidural.
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And I think for me, actually, my my intention by giving birth, uh physiological birth, was actually doing it without epidural.
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So again, it sounds silly, but it was just my kind of challenge, you know, as you plan for uh running a marathon and you know you are doing this.
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For me, it was like doing my labor, and I want to live it truly and with no epidural, and at the end I did it with all of this.
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I still did it, so I was very proud of myself.
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Yeah, and why uh why c-section was one of your nightmares?
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And because okay, let's let's take a step back.
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I have no kids, so I cannot speak from my experience, and I don't know how it feels to give birth, you know, in a natural way or uh via c-section.
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But when preparing to do this interview, I spoke with several different people, and I have some questions from them at the end also.
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But there were some concerns about c-section, and what were your concerns and why it was one of your nightmares?
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Well, because obviously, when you plan for physiological birth, like c-section is like the extreme of it, right?
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And um, and I didn't prepare myself, and I think it's a mistake.
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I should have prepared for everything, you know, really everything.
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But I was glad to have to listen to a podcast three days before giving birth about emergency c-section.
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I didn't want it to listen to this episode, but kind of my feeling was like, listen to it.
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And I was happy because when they told me about okay, it's a red, it's emergency c-section, I knew what it was because I just learned about it three days before.
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Um, but why it was my nightmare?
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Because you know, you've heard all these kind of stories, and you are like, it's not really a birth from what people believe, you know.
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And you are, you know, we cut you, right?
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We cut you in half, kind of, to just let your baby out, and you can feel everything.
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It's not painful, but you can feel everything.
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And I was like, I don't want to see all of this, I'm not gonna feel well.
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I know about this, I don't want to leave this.
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It was just like, I don't want to leave this.
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And for me, even if I leave the c section, and it can be very um shocking sometimes for some people, but I was very glad to be in uh completely sleeping, you know.
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I was inest general anesthesia, so I was completely sleeping, and I was like, I'm so happy they say that I don't have to live through this.
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I will just be sleeping and I will wake up and I will feel rested, kind of, you know.
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Did you feel that's that?
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Yeah, I mean, when I woke up, it just felt for me like 15 minutes after, and I was able to just welcome my baby and feel happy about it.
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And obviously, you know, days after you are kind of like the uh the tiredness of the dizziness of this, but for me it was kind of uh in my bad luck, kind of, it was still a good luck to be uh like this.
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And what I was surprised as well is was for nurses when they experienced my uh childbirth, they were saying, Oh, it's a traumatic experience, you need to talk of psychology and etc.
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I was like, Oh, okay, I don't think it's traumatic, but okay, why not?
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Maybe I'm in Daniel and I need to, you know, to see someone.
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And I see and I saw someone, but really I didn't feel like this.
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I felt just powerful and badass, and and another woman wouldn't have lived the same experience, you know, it really depends on a lot of things, right?
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And as for me, my intention was to try to do as much as possible with no epidural, you know, for me it was just like I did it, period.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And so when you if you feel comfortable answering this, because maybe this is too personal, but when you went to see a psychologist or a therapist, um, were there some things that you learned that perhaps it was maybe some sort of more traumatic experience, the C-section?
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Or not really?
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Well, not really.
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I mean, we I mean we did it with my partner, right?
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Because I was like, you should do it as well, because I think it was maybe more traumatic for you than for me, you know, because for me I was closing my eyes all the time.
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I didn't see anything.
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I felt in my body, but at the same time, you I'm full of hormones, so I didn't really feel anything.
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But for him, he saw everything, you know, so I was more thinking for you, it's traumatic.
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And he was like, I don't think so.
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I mean, obviously, was uh sometimes uh not comfortable, but I think no.
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And so we still, you know, we saw the two of us the same uh uh therapist, and at the end of the sessions, you know, she confirmed that she felt like actually we were not traumatized by by it, you know, and of course, if we need we can still see her, but we are just talking, you know, honestly about what we lived, what was important for us.
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We cry, and I think it's good to cry and to talk about it, but no, we did not feel uh traumatized by it.
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And how much do you think the mindset played in this big uh the role?
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How big the role was of the mindset that you had?
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Sorry, that was a well-constructed question.
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A lot, and I think the belief is also more important, what you say about yourself, you know, words are very important.
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So if for you six section is not giving birth, obviously you're not gonna live it very nicely, right?
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Uh so I think it's really what you you say about yourself, and what you say about this experience matters, you know.
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And obviously, if you lived um violence, you know, like with the team that is are with you, it depends also of the team, you know.
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And I really felt like wow, the team did the best they could.
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We feel really reassured, they explain us a lot of things.
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So it was in this sense, uh, we felt well surrounded, which I think is very important.
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If you feel alone in this process, it could be very difficult, yes.
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Definitely.
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I think with a lot of situations in life, like your mindset and preparation is super important.
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And earlier you mentioned that there were different um well assumptions or um myths surrounding C-section, but what are other um myths or biggest mistakes uh when it comes to intimacy and pregnancy that you can talk about?
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Yes.
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Well, the biggest myth, belief or fears, you know, it's like we can hurt the baby when we have penetrative sex uh while pregnant.
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And this we I see it all the time, you know, and especially from men, you know, that really they think they can hurt the baby.
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And this is just um not having sex education and not understanding how the body is and how it works, because when you teach them about the anatomy of you know pregnancy, but also where is the vagina, where is the uterus, where the baby is, you understand that no matter, you know, even if you have a big penis and a long penis, it doesn't matter, you can't touch the baby, right?
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You can maybe hurt the partner because it can be in different positions, or if you don't use lube or whatever, but you can't touch the baby, you can't hurt the baby.
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And also what I like to say when I explain them like how it was, the anatomy, I also explain, you know, and baby will be like you know, full of good hormons if you have pleasurable sex.
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So of course the baby will feel you know, like feel in terms of the hormone and wow, feeling like okay, okay, it's moving, you know, in the but it's not gonna feel physically, you know.
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Yeah, okay, okay.
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And what are some other um meets or mistakes or assumptions that people have?
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That also uh it can like on the first uh first trimester, the assumption is like okay, if we have a sex, uh it can cause miscarriage, you know, we can lose a baby.
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And this is very important also as health professional to reassure them, even if they don't ask the questions, but to tell them because a lot of people are scared about it.
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So if there is no um indication that you know your gynaecologists say no, you should not have sex because of these medical conditions, okay, do not have penetrative sex.
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But in most of the cases, it's totally fine.
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And you have a if you have a green flag from your health professional, you can go if you want to with what you want.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, I also I also have heard some of those things, and um, you know, as I'm saying, a lot of of my friends, you know, when I talked with them, um, some of those things came up.
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So yeah.
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And um so I before we jump to talk to to speak about the specifics of like before or during pregnancy, after pregnancy, um physical and mental health.
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Uh what got you into this line of work?
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Why this?
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Well, when I was in America, I was uh working for a startup that was just interested in women, you know, to help them, and especially young men, mom, to help them to breastfeed their kids, to have the best knowledge about it, and to feel reassured.
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And while I was working, I was still I was not a sexologist at the time, but it was in my plan to become a sexologist.
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And I was like, it's interesting, but we never talk about intimacy with after baby, and I'm sure, I'm sure in my head, you know, there's something about it.
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Um, so I was starting to be like, okay, what's the you know, the science, the studies are telling about it, and I could find you know studies about this, but not really in mainstream knowledge, more in scientific uh knowledge.
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And I, you know, I put all the resumes in my computer, and five years, five years later, when I became a sexologist and I started to work with couples, I was like, okay, there's still not many books, and especially French books, there's nothing that really describes from A to Z uh how to have an intimacy, a sex life when you are pregnant or when after baby.
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And I was like, okay, since I have all this information in my in my Mac, I should do something, right?
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I should use this research.
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Plus, now my my uh you know my sexologist expertise and try to give this information to people because I'm sure if people have this information, they feel reassured, they are feel uh empowered.
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And this is what we want, right?
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We want people to just leave their intimacy the way they want.
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But for this, they need to be reassured and they need to have the good information about it.
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Yeah, and uh well, are there any plans of having your book in English?
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Yes, I'm working on this, yes, because there's more and more that was my goal when I launched it.
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And well, sadly, my uh my host publisher didn't really do the job, so I will do the job myself.
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That's good, that's good.
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Yes, I like that.
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And we need we need this information, right?
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And um, like a month ago, like in February uh 2023, I was invited to a conference with future doctors uh to talk about this topic.
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So I'm really happy because since um I published the book in 2021, now I'm invited to a lot of conferences because people, media, brands are like really looking into these topics and be like, oh, we should talk about it.
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Yes, yes, definitely.
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And you know, I think with a lot of medical doctors, they they have so much on their hands, you know, that maybe they don't even have time to consider intimacy for people, like you know, they take care about that the pregnancy.
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And even in their courses, they don't yeah, and even in their courses they have nothing about sex education, they have almost nothing about birth control or or male birth control, you know, they are lacking a lot of information.
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And usually, why they're not talking about sex with their passions?
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Usually I I feel like there's three three main um reasons.
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The first one, they don't have the knowledge, right?
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Second one, they don't have time, because there are already a lot of things in their mind, as you said, and in the head and the responsibility, and the third, they might not be comfortable to talk about sex.
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So, what I'm trying to say to these uh doctors or health professional is at least the minimum is to give referrals to say if you have any questions about intimacy, they are experts, and the experts are sexologists.
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So here a list of sexologists, here a website where you can find sexologists, and you will have an answer to your questions, but don't leave them alone without questions, never.
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But do you think uh a lot of sexologists they know um they know how to talk about intimacy during or after pregnancy?
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Because it's very specific, and I think there is a lot of details that are not covered when you're going through the sexology materials.
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Yeah, good questions and good point.
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True.
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It's true because yes, when I did my my study in sexology, there were nothing about uh sex operinatality, sex after birth, and uh they are they are like comfortable to talk about sex, but obviously, if you don't see this during uh your studies, you are less comfortable to talk about it, right?
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Because you are not sure about what you're saying, you don't really have the resources, the information.
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And so um the books was a good help uh for the French uh sexologist community.
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Uh and more and more like people are asking me to train them.
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And I was surprised, I was not planning this, but mostly midwives.
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Midwives were the were really like into my book, and it makes sense because they are the first line to receive you know people pregnant and giving birth.
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Yeah.
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And they want these information.
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Yeah, yeah, because then they can they probably uh have a lot of education about uh physiology and you know how our body will behave, what can happen.
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They don't talk much about intimacy, I guess, and that's where your book came.
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And there are a lot of similitudes between giving birth and having sex, you know, like giving birth is kind of a sexual experience, is because there's the same hormones that are released into your body when you have a pleasurable experience in sex, but also giving birth in a physiological way when you feel reassured, you know, you can have a lot of oxytocin, you need, you know, dopamine, you need uh, you know, you need to feel uh relaxed, you need to feel confident, etc.
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And uh there's a lot also about if you want to give so here I'm not talking about physiological, but it can also work uh otherwise, but you know, more like okay, maybe like to touch euclitoris, which is you know like a pleasurable way to reduce the pain, you know, during birth.
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And so there are so many similitudes between giving birth and intimacy, and we are just uh we just need to fill the gap, you know, between these two um these two domains.
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That's so interesting.
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So sorry, let's dive into that because that's fascinating.
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I even didn't think about this.
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So, what are some other similar similarities?
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I'm sorry for that.
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Uh what are some other similar things?
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Uh you said that you mentioned the hormones, and so can you tell me?
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Yes, the context as well is very important.
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You know, in sex the context, you need to feel safe, reassured, to just you know be in the present moment, surrender, just live a pleasurable experience, which is the same to give birth, you know, to give birth when there's um no, you know, no medical condition condition, but when you can give uh a physiological birth, you need the same.
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You need to feel safe, you need to be reassured, you need to be sometimes in the dark, you know, to just be in your mind focused.
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You don't need to have several people around you, right?
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But usually when you give birth, you have a lot of professional coming and they interrupt you, and then it's another team, another person is a new person.
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So you're you know, you don't feel reassured.
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You sometimes you have to build the trust with this new person.
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Let's imagine in sex what will happen.
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You know, you're having sex with your partner, and suddenly there's someone coming, and you don't know this person, and you're like, oh, what's happening?
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And then five minutes after another person, you can't have sex, right?
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You're just disturbed, you can't relax, your body can't relax.
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It's exactly the same when you give birth.
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But in our societies, the way we give birth is you know, a lot of professional around you, and sometimes it's useful, right, to have professional around you.
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But most of the time, if there's, you know, like it's better to let the woman be alone if she wants to, and to not interrupt too much, to left her in the dark if she wants, to put some relaxing music, to put her in the mood to give birth.
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The same as to put yourself in the mood to have sex and pleasurable sex.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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That makes sense.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:14.480
Ocitocin to feel connection, you know, like in sex, you need to be connected to your body, connected to your partner if you do it with a partner, but the same in birth, you need to be connected to yourself, and maybe sometimes you need help with being connected with your partner to just feel reassured, you know, the touch, the ocetocin, etc.
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:26.640
Yeah, and so how can partners navigate different intimate needs and desires um during the pregnancy?
00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:38.080
So uh it's important for partner because they don't know, you know, and they can't know they can't know and they need to ask the partner.
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:41.920
Actually, like what we say all the time, but communication is key.
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:44.480
So communicate, communicate, communicate.
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:54.960
You need to have these discussions between the two of you, especially during pregnancy, because you know your mood, the way you feel in your body, the hormones will change every day.
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:59.840
So you might not want the same thing, you might not need the same things day by day.
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.240
So when you're an intimate, you might want something different as yesterday.
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:06.799
But this could happen, you know, even if you're not pregnant, right?
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:07.759
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:23:07.840 --> 00:23:08.000
Yeah.
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:08.400
Yes.
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:12.240
But here we want to be even more uh having a focus on this.
00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:16.480
And so for this, the partner needs to ask, you know, like, what do you want?
00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:18.799
Like, do you have any pain in your body today?
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:21.519
Like, is there the position that you feel more comfortable?
00:23:21.600 --> 00:23:23.920
And let's make sure you are comfortable in a position.
00:23:24.080 --> 00:23:29.600
Do you feel like penetrative sex today, or should we be, you know, with no penetration today?
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:32.319
Do you feel we need to add extra lube?
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:42.000
You know, because lube is always needed, you know, we want lube all the time, but maybe extra lube, you know, to pay extra attention if there's, for example, vaginal dryness.
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:49.680
And do you think the vaginal vaginal dryness happens more when women are pregnant?
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:54.720
Usually more uh in postpartum, vaginal dryness.
00:23:54.880 --> 00:24:07.920
Uh, during pregnancy, we see more women with a lot of fluids normally, like you know, with the hormone, you usually like you know have uh a lot of lubrification, but still, you know, uh could you could see some women with vaginal dryness.
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:20.080
But I would say in general, during pregnancy is still kind of fine, but postpartum, yes, you can see a lot of vaginal drawnness because of the lack of oestrogens, and especially also if you are breastfeeding.
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:24.640
Okay, and how why breastfeeding has an impact on that?
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:32.480
Yes, because when you breastfeed, uh you have a lack of oestrogen, and oestrogen is uh very needed for the lubrication of the vagina.
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:34.000
Okay, okay, gotcha.
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:34.559
So gotcha.
00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:46.240
So this also it can happen if you are not breastfeeding, like a few weeks after birth, you know, you can uh have a vaginal dryness, and for the women who are breastfeeding, to pay extra attention to this as well.
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:54.559
So if you want to have, as I like to say, if you want to have sex and don't want to bother about oh, am I dry, am I wet, use lube.
00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:56.160
Yeah, yeah, okay, gotcha.
00:24:56.799 --> 00:24:58.640
But lube doesn't replace desire.
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:00.480
So if you don't want to have sex, you know.
00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:03.600
Yeah, I was thinking about this, please go.
00:25:03.840 --> 00:25:11.759
Yeah, so I'm always saying, you know, lube works if you want to have sex or if you are okay to experience and to see if the desire you know arise.
00:25:12.080 --> 00:25:16.960
But if it's like a no, I don't want to have sex, but let's put lube and I may want to have sex.
00:25:17.120 --> 00:25:21.200
No, no, lube doesn't replace, doesn't uh create desire necessarily.
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.680
Yeah, that's so well said, yes.
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:45.680
Um and I think I wanted to talk also a little bit more about the communication part that you mentioned it, uh because as you said yourself, like a lot of people don't communicate uh even like when they are not pregnant, it's just to communicate about their pleasure, intimacy, desires.
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:49.600
People often don't do that, and it's very much needed.
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:59.360
And I think if uh the couples will get into this habit before uh they get into the pregnancy stage, that will be so much easier.
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:11.440
And connecting people, it connects people, having like good communication, self-disclosure, and listening, it really can connect partners on a different level, in my opinion.
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:28.640
You are so right, and you know, in our sessions as a sexologist, you know, we don't necessarily talk about sex all the time, but the first tool is communication, and as you said, a lot of couples don't have um uh like don't have efficient communication.
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:31.440
You know, couples will say, Oh, yeah, we talk about a lot of things, yeah.
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:42.000
We have a good communication, and usually, you know, I pay extra attention to that, I'm asking questions, then I realize, okay, you talk about a lot of things, which is good, but this is not efficient, you know.
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:57.360
You are not really listening, or you don't really ask the questions, you know, and maybe you don't have the safe space to talk about it, you you know, about it, especially when it's taboo, you know, like sex or money are very, you know, yeah, taboo topic uh in the relationship.
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:02.000
So it can take several sessions to build efficient communication.
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:12.319
And when I wrote the book and in my sessions, I really see the need of actually having this information and these tools before being pregnant.
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:27.279
Because when you are pregnant, there's already too many information, and this is not really the right time to start working on communication, even though it's better to do it there than in postpartum because it's even worse than postpartum.
00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:33.680
But the best of the best is before, even when you are planning or thinking to have a baby, okay.
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:39.920
Like, do we have the right tools as a couple to survive the tsunami of having a baby?
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:42.960
I like that he call it tsunami.
00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:54.160
And um, are there any positions during pregnancy that are not optimal or good for having sex?
00:27:55.360 --> 00:27:58.880
It really will really depend on the woman, on the people.
00:27:59.039 --> 00:27:59.759
Uh, really.
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:05.519
Uh, because one position could really fit someone, but not fit the other one.
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:06.640
It really depends.
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:17.519
So, usually, also what I do when I work with couples or here with a pregnant person is to work on being connected to your body because your body will tell you what you need, not me.
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:25.759
So, can we be connected to our sensations, to what the body needs, in order to then communicate it?
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:35.920
And sometimes the first phase is to be uh to identify what you need, what you want, to connect to connect to your body, so you can take several sessions, right?
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:49.519
And then sometimes the other challenge when you know that is how I communicate to my partner because I have the fear of hurting him or her, I don't know how to express it clearly, I don't know if I'm allowed to do this, how can I say, etc.
00:28:50.080 --> 00:29:12.319
Yeah, this again goes back to the what we just said about communication, because there are so many like feelings that we don't know how to express it, and we are afraid to do it because we don't want to hurt the other person, and yeah, so it's very delicate balance to do it, and as you said, it's better to start learning this before pregnancy when that tsunami is and it's a practice, right?
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:24.000
So, yeah, of course, at the beginning you are you don't know really how to do it, you are uncomfortable, but you practice and you practice and then you master it, and then after months, after years, it's better.
00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:30.720
So that's why you see it's very important to do it before because then at least when you give birth, you already have nine months of practicing.
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:32.640
Yes, which can make a difference.
00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:34.640
Exactly, exactly.
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:44.640
And um how about sex with no penetration during or even during pregnancy or in postpartum part?
00:29:45.360 --> 00:29:46.799
In general, I would say, even.
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:48.880
Yes, like as hell, why not?
00:29:49.440 --> 00:30:07.120
Yes, and sometimes the pregnancy is I will I like to say it's a a tremplant and opportunity for couples to discovering more about sex, which is sex with no penetration, because sometimes we are too too focused on penetration, which is a sexual practice, right?
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:09.120
But this is not 100% of sex.
00:30:09.360 --> 00:30:13.840
So let's focus on the other aspects that are as much as important as penetration.
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:23.120
And I like to also to say if we remove penetration out of the equation, we remove almost all sexual dysfunction, you know.
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:39.120
I mean, there's no painful sex if you don't have penetration, there is no erectile dysfunction if you don't have um penetrative sex because you lower the expectation, you lower uh the pressure, and then you feel more comfortable to just explore and whatever.
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:46.319
And also, we know for women pleasure, pleasure comes more through like you know, stimulation of clitoris than penetrative sex.
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:48.720
So, you know, it's it's a win.
00:30:49.600 --> 00:30:52.080
It doesn't mean we have to remove penetration, right?
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:53.279
But we need to explore this.
00:30:53.440 --> 00:31:00.160
And so sometimes it's pregnancy and postpartum is an opportunity for them, and sometimes they are not comfortable, right?
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:11.600
Sometimes they are more comfortable to just go through penetration and not really exploring, you know, like oral sex or masturbation or touching or taking time to have sex.
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:18.960
Yeah, but I think it comes with lack of knowledge and comfort to talk about those things.
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:43.840
Because from my experience being raised in a very religious environment where I didn't have sex education, like I was really in the beginning uncomfortable to talk about those things until the point that I got to work in uh the in in adult industry where I was like, oh wow, people comfortably talk about sex, and there are different ways to um have sexual pleasure or intimate pleasure.
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:55.200
Um and for me that was like an eye-opener, and I became more like I started having the conversations about sexual pleasure.
00:31:55.759 --> 00:32:06.720
I don't know if I would be able to do this if not the work that I did because I I I just wasn't taught to like to talk about it.
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:09.039
It was like a taboo topic, you know.
00:32:09.360 --> 00:32:10.799
No, we don't talk about this.
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:12.319
That's at the end of the story.
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:37.519
So I think a lot of this uh this um the lack of willingness to explore the pleasure, to have time to to give each other time to explore the pleasure, and that it not necessarily has to be penetrative sex, uh, comes with lack of knowledge and um d the lack of permission to talk about this, maybe.
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:46.480
Yeah, and curiosity, I will say because you know you said okay, you are not coming from this background, but you were curious, you know, and you're trying to be inspired by people, you know.
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:50.400
You open your ears, you open your eyes, and you're like, okay, what can I absorb?
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:51.120
What can I learn?
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:57.120
And by just being surrounded by these people talking freely about sex, just give you permission, right?
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:01.279
To talk also about sex, and you were willing to practice as well.
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:02.400
Yeah, exactly.
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:07.440
Because if one person is willing and the other not, then well that will be a little bit difficult.
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:08.480
It is difficult.
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:12.319
This is the most challenging thing when you uh uh accompany, you know, couples.
00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:29.120
You know, we see it and I see it a lot, and it's kind of frustrating frustrating as a therapist that like uh one of the members of the relationship is very like eager to learn, to practice, curious, willing to try different things, while the other one is just like no problem, I have no problem.
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:31.519
I don't want to hear about it, I don't want to talk about it.
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:33.680
Let's pretend everything is fine.
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:35.840
Exactly.
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:37.519
That that's super difficult.
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:48.160
Um how do you help prepare the how do you help the partners to prepare for the postpartum?
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:54.160
So after giving bell birth.
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:54.720
Yes.
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:58.799
Um what are some tactics, tactics or suggestions?
00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:07.519
Um because there are a lot of physiological changes, there may be some um mental health uh challenges.
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:09.440
Uh how do you help with that?
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:10.079
Yes.
00:34:10.319 --> 00:34:12.960
First, I help them before postpartum.
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:16.719
Because as we said, when they're in postpartum, they need to take action right away.
00:34:16.799 --> 00:34:20.159
So it's not a time of in you know, ingesting information.
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:23.920
Ingesting information should be during pregnancy or even before.
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:25.599
So I prepare them before.
00:34:25.759 --> 00:34:31.119
It's a lot of information, you know, as we were saying, like education, you know, like education is power.
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:41.599
So we need to to give them the information about the anatomies, the changes, the mood swings, how you can help your partner also with all of this.
00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:52.880
Um, how you can take your responsibility, you know, as a partner, as a co-parent, as a future dads, because they are not also teached about it, like you know, like that they don't help.
00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:55.360
They need to take their role, their responsibilities.
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:57.840
So it's a lot also about organization.
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.079
It's not only about sex, but organization.
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:10.960
What concretely you can do in postpartum, you know, preparing the meals, taking care of your partners, then you know, she can take care of herself and the baby, but also taking care of the baby.
00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:21.359
In postpartum, maybe, you know, like you know, you will have a few weeks until uh the green flags of the health professional when they will say, Okay, penetration is okay, you can do it.
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:24.799
But it's not because you have a green flag that you have to do it, right?
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:33.279
So the most important thing is maybe before you do anything intimate, like you communicate together to say, How do you feel in your body?
00:35:33.439 --> 00:35:34.319
What do you think?
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:35.679
What do you want?
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:43.919
And you have to respect a rhythm, a path, you know, you you copy a path, you know, we will really bring into that.
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:59.759
And if you you had need of desire, with TGM also hard to have pleasure with uh masturbation, you know, even though they say it's not the same, maybe not the same, but you can connect to your partner also in different ways than just penetrative sex.
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:17.679
So it's a lot about uh information to think beyond penetration, which is gonna be very important and sometimes it's challenging for them, uh, to communicate uh and to share in a vulnerable way, which is also something that they never had the practice, right?
00:36:17.839 --> 00:36:29.439
So just this takes already, you know, several sessions, several months, just to practice this and be more comfortable about it, and to create a safe space where they can talk about sex, you know.
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:34.399
And so my mission is before even they do sex, can they talk about sex?
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:36.079
Can they be intimate?
00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:37.279
Can they be connected?
00:36:37.439 --> 00:36:41.519
And then we can see about you know the sex, real sex, concrete sex.
00:36:41.839 --> 00:36:59.839
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, and so um because you know, like I can imagine that, and you know that now when the baby comes, uh uh there are a lot of different things that you have to do, and there are apparently sleepless nights.
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:03.119
And do you have are you having sleepless nights?
00:37:03.919 --> 00:37:06.319
Well, because you must prepare for the worst.
00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:19.119
So it's interesting because for the for the birth I was prepared preparing for the best, and actually I was not preparing for the worst, but for postpartum, I was preparing for the worst, and so I was so well prepared, you know.
00:37:19.279 --> 00:37:22.960
We we put in action so many things, we were so much organized.
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:43.359
My partner took you know a parental leave, he was there doing his job, and I was pretty no, I didn't feel you know the lack of sleep until then now, nine months uh when you know there's a sleep regression or something like this, but still, it's still okay because if I need to, I know I can have a nap, you know, a power nap, or etc.
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:45.519
Because I have the support of my partner.
00:37:45.759 --> 00:37:48.079
And I think this is what makes a difference, really.
00:37:48.239 --> 00:38:02.159
And I really advocate for this because I remember three weeks after giving birth, uh, I was voting because it was French presidential, and I was with my newborn, and I was just, you know, feeling sexy.
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:08.239
Like, really, I think I never felt as sexy as in postpartum just a week after and a few weeks after, which is crazy.
00:38:08.319 --> 00:38:09.679
I never thought about this.
00:38:09.919 --> 00:38:13.839
And mom who was seeing me with a newborn were like, How you do?
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:16.079
I mean, you give birth three weeks ago.
00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:21.039
I mean, I you know, they couldn't believe it because I was feeling fresh, get up.
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:27.199
And I was like, Well, it's parental leave, it's because my partner is there, is I'm not doing this alone.
00:38:27.439 --> 00:38:36.879
Alone, of course, I will be completely devaste, I will be maybe probably in depression, I will not feel good, I will have no time for myself.
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:38.799
And this is a difference, you know.
00:38:38.879 --> 00:38:45.599
Like if your partner is there, you can take time for yourself, or allow yourself to take time for yourself, it changes everything.
00:38:45.919 --> 00:38:48.799
Yeah, and that was just a my question was about that.
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:50.319
How do you make more time for me?
00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:56.399
It's first is practice again, because for a lot of women it's difficult to allow ourselves.
00:38:56.559 --> 00:39:01.839
Sometimes, I mean, we all have time for ourselves, we we can always have five minutes for ourselves.
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:06.719
The difference is usually we don't give ourselves the permission to do it, right?
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:12.719
Because there's a to-do list, uh there's this, there's that, or you know, who I am to take some time for myself.
00:39:12.799 --> 00:39:16.239
You know, we don't teach women to take time for themselves.
00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:22.159
Men have no problem, you know, they can go to you know whatever they want to do, they do it, they can fulfill their needs.
00:39:22.319 --> 00:39:33.039
Uh, but as women, we are we are taught to please the other person before, to put the other people before us, you know, the kid, the husband, the partner before ourselves.
00:39:33.359 --> 00:39:37.359
And I think it's uh a mistake, but it's not our fault, right?
00:39:37.439 --> 00:39:38.239
It's society.
00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:43.919
But we need to re-employ ourselves and take ourselves, like allow ourselves to do it.
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:47.039
And this is a practice to do it before birth, right?
00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:50.399
Is I was able to do it because I practiced it before.
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:54.480
And can you give me some examples of how you practice it before?
00:39:54.799 --> 00:39:56.000
Yes, very easy.
00:39:56.159 --> 00:40:22.239
Uh, for example, um, every day, you know, and I did it after in postpartum, but every day I put uh oil or uh cream on my body, and I do it with some music that I like or even some podcasts, just to put myself in a mood of it's my me time, you know, and I close the door, you know, I lock the door, I put uh music that I feel you know good about, and I put my cream on my oil, all my body, and I observe, you know, in really mindfulness way as well.
00:40:22.319 --> 00:40:23.359
I just don't do it like this.
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:25.519
I really take time, it's my moment.
00:40:26.079 --> 00:40:34.879
And when you create your moment, my me time, when you're in postpartum, you know, I was just looking forward to be 6 p.m.
00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:40.000
when it's just my moment for 15 minutes that I do it before going to bed, you know.
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:43.919
And and and did you discuss this somehow with your partner?
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:47.359
Because at the end of the day, it's a relationship, yes?
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:50.559
And so you both have each other in mind.
00:40:51.039 --> 00:41:02.960
And so sometimes when people decide to take care of themselves more, they go into a really uh extreme site and they forget that they are in a relationship.
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:10.319
So uh, was it the communication between you and your partner on the self-care and having me time?
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:11.519
And yeah.
00:41:11.919 --> 00:41:12.960
Very good questions.
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:16.319
And we are back to communication and to planification.
00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:21.599
So, yes, we talk during pregnancy about how we want to live the postpartum.
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:23.279
What are our fears, right?
00:41:23.359 --> 00:41:31.119
My fears was to lose completely myself, to not recognize myself because you see a lot of testimonies about postpartum, which are real, right?
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:44.799
And we need to listen to them and to hear them and to be like, okay, how can I do my best to uh keep myself on track or to do things that fulfill me in order that I can you know be healthy, sane, etc.
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:52.159
So we express to each other what is important for ourselves, like as an individual, and then for the relationship.
00:41:52.399 --> 00:41:56.000
And we agree on something that you know, oh, for you, okay.
00:41:56.079 --> 00:41:59.279
You will need to go every day, go for a walk outside, okay.
00:41:59.439 --> 00:42:01.279
And we make sure that you do it as well.
00:42:01.359 --> 00:42:03.359
We are too making sure you're doing it, right?
00:42:03.519 --> 00:42:07.199
Yeah, because sometimes yes, it has to push me to be like, Camille.
00:42:07.359 --> 00:42:10.000
Now you go rest, you are tired, you go rest.
00:42:10.399 --> 00:42:11.039
That's good.
00:42:11.359 --> 00:42:17.119
I'm talking about permission, but sometimes it's hard also for yourself to really, you know, you always find excuses.
00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:24.079
So you need also a partner to say, no, no, no, you go, you do this because you need it, and you will feel better after.
00:42:24.399 --> 00:42:26.079
Yes, yeah, that that's really good.
00:42:26.239 --> 00:42:28.319
The accountability uh part.
00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:30.319
That's a really cool idea.
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:51.039
Yes, it was much needed because otherwise, yeah, I couldn't, I could feel, you know, like especially okay, especially uh, you know, seven days after postpartum, I was praying all the time because it's hormonal as well, but you are exhausted as well because uh during your um maternity you know trip, you know, is there so much as professionals that you can't really rest, you know.
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:52.639
It's really at home you can rest.
00:42:52.799 --> 00:42:56.079
And for this, you need people that make sure you can rest.
00:42:56.239 --> 00:43:00.399
So I needed someone to tell me now you're gonna rest as much as possible.
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:07.199
And I rest as much as much as possible, and after three days of resting, I felt myself again.
00:43:07.359 --> 00:43:11.839
That's why I felt you know powerful, I feel sexy, I was just re-energized.
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:13.279
Yeah.
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:22.639
And and do you work with uh women who are without a partner who have to raise the kid alone?
00:43:22.879 --> 00:43:26.000
Um, do you work with uh with only women?
00:43:26.319 --> 00:43:33.599
Yes, uh not only women, I work with also couples, but mostly it's women in relationship, but yes, they're also uh solo women.
00:43:33.839 --> 00:43:37.039
Uh it's not the main uh client that I have.
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:43.679
Um and the one that I have that I follow, usually usually they have good support around them.
00:43:43.839 --> 00:43:48.319
They might not have a partner, but they have the family around, or they have good friendship.
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:52.639
So I have kind of a privilege, I will say, uh solo mom.
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:59.439
Uh so I can't tell about the one who do not have support, and I can't imagine how difficult it may be if you don't have a support.
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:01.679
If you are alone or even with a partner.
00:44:02.799 --> 00:44:06.079
For me, it's just torture if you don't have a support.
00:44:06.399 --> 00:44:29.599
Yeah, yeah, because I was wondering uh if there are some suggestions for women who have to go through it themselves, and I I think this can be also empowering in a way, um, but it can be very, very difficult financially, and as you know, you have to take care of everything yourself.
00:44:29.839 --> 00:44:38.239
Um, so do you have any suggestions for uh women who raise well who raise kids alone?
00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:44.639
Yeah, first war they are warriors, and second, I hope they have like supports really.
00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:50.719
Um and third, I will say like still the same thing, you know, like a me time, five minutes, you know.
00:44:50.799 --> 00:44:54.960
If you can find five minutes five minutes in your day, which is more easy if you have someone.
00:44:55.519 --> 00:45:02.480
That can watch your kids when you're doing this, or maybe when baby is asleep for you know 30 minutes, an hour, whatever, but you take it for yourself.
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:13.519
I know there's many other things to do in the house, in the staff, but just like right now, the priority is yourself, you know, your baby and yourself and the house will wait.
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:20.960
You know, you will never regret uh to take care of yourself versus oh no, I regret I didn't clean my house properly 20 years ago.
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:22.639
No, nobody's saying that.
00:45:22.799 --> 00:45:32.239
But you can say, oh, I I regret that I didn't take, you know, that I was not focusing on myself, I lose myself, or I was not connected to my baby because I was not feeling good.
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:35.199
This is your priorities to feel good in order.
00:45:35.439 --> 00:45:44.960
And this is important, that's why it's important before giving birth to know what is what are the things that are important for yourself, what are the things that nourish you?
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:47.839
What are the things that you can commit in postpartum?
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:51.439
Which might be challenging, but it's kind of like keeping the track, you know.
00:45:51.519 --> 00:45:58.319
You you hold into this, into the the storm, you know, and you have to hold into this because you know why it's important.
00:45:58.719 --> 00:45:59.919
Yeah, yeah.
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:05.599
And what about physical changes uh for women after giving birth?
00:46:05.759 --> 00:46:07.279
How the body changes?
00:46:07.439 --> 00:46:08.559
Can you talk about that?
00:46:08.879 --> 00:46:09.519
Yes.
00:46:09.759 --> 00:46:21.599
So, well, if you give birth vaginally, you know, so sometimes you can have tears, uh, you can have episiotomy can be painful, you know, your vagina can be painful after a few days, few weeks.
00:46:21.759 --> 00:46:26.480
Um, normally everything goes back, you know, heal well, but you have to check this.
00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:28.719
But sometimes so there's this.
00:46:28.879 --> 00:46:36.879
Um, there is also, as I was saying, like uh the vaginal dryness that can happen after a few weeks, or if you are giving if you are breastfeeding.
00:46:37.759 --> 00:46:56.319
Um, some of the women sometimes they will say, Oh, I don't recognize my vulva because it's darker color, which can be because of hormones, or it's more um swallow, which can be also the blood fruit that goes into uh uh the vulva, but usually it's totally uh normal.
00:46:56.399 --> 00:46:59.359
But you can check this, of course, with the health professional.
00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:05.759
You can have um if you had a C-section, you have the scar, so the scar can be painful also for a few weeks.
00:47:05.919 --> 00:47:10.239
You can have trouble to shower yourself, that's why you need help as well.
00:47:10.399 --> 00:47:12.559
You can be in pain with all of this.
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:20.639
Um, if you breastfeed your both your breast, also can go like you know, double, triple the volume, which can be painful.
00:47:20.879 --> 00:47:36.559
Uh, you can have uh, you know, like pain drink breastfeeding, uh, you can be licking, you know, like you are all about licking, you know, licking milk, licking your tears, uh licking about blood because you are also bleeding, you know, after a few weeks.
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:36.879
Yes.
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:39.679
Yeah, it's like having a period for an entire month.
00:47:39.759 --> 00:47:42.719
You don't have it for nine months, but then you have for an entire month for long years.
00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:43.919
Exactly, exactly.
00:47:44.079 --> 00:48:02.159
So, you know, all of this, it just it's hard sometimes, yeah, to feel comfortable in your body because you just feel like um I don't know the name in English, but my midwife was saying is like um you're a flak, mean which means you know, when he ran a lot on the streets, there's um a big pool of water, you know.
00:48:02.319 --> 00:48:14.239
Yeah, and she was comparing like women after birth, they're like this, you know, it's a pool of like a lot of tears, a lot of blood, and a lot of milk, and then you are a flak, you have a lot of fleet.
00:48:14.879 --> 00:48:32.799
Um and so and how this impacts the self-esteem and body image, and how to how partners can work with intimacy during that period and like all the concerns around body image.
00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:42.639
Yeah, I think in this period the focus should be more um I think the partner should let the space and the time for the woman to reconnect with herself.
00:48:42.799 --> 00:48:48.559
I think this is the most important in this phase because you are like, okay, wow, what is this body?
00:48:48.639 --> 00:49:03.199
You know, like your belly, you are not pregnant, but your belly is still, you know, uh blow, like uh bloody, it's still like can big, it it just like the stability is different as well because you're not pregnant, but you don't feel like you are completely grounded.
00:49:03.439 --> 00:49:08.639
Um, you have your breast, uh, you have like the omen, so you cry, etc.
00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:21.119
You need to reconnect with yourself because this body is kind of a new body in terms of like, oh wow, I never had this kind of body, like I don't know what is the new sensations as well.
00:49:21.279 --> 00:49:22.639
So you need time for yourself.
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:30.559
That's why it's important also to have time for yourself to reconnect with this part, even to reconnect with uh your genitals, you know.
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:38.879
Yeah, because it can be scary sometimes for some women to just look at it, look at the scars, for example, or to touch the vulva after birth.
00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:46.960
So take your time before anyone touches you, touch yourself with your own rules, your own terms, with your own pace.
00:49:47.599 --> 00:50:02.079
And so what can partner what partner can do is to be accountant, you know, for this, like to create a safe space, a safe corner for the woman, for the person who gave birth to reconnect with yourself first.
00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:15.519
And again, uh you know, it's kind of strange, but give the permission saying like it's okay if you take your time and it's okay if you try to touch yourself and reconnect with yourself.
00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:23.279
Uh, I think this may be helpful, though it's strange to kind of uh needing this permission, but it may help, you know.
00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:24.159
It may help.
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:40.559
It should not put pressure because sometimes also I can hear my partner saying you should masturbate, you should do this, you should learn about yourself, and it can give also pressure, but it's more like you know, as a kind way of repeating and saying, you know, now you know, go take your shower, take the time for yourself.
00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:41.519
I'm in charge.
00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:45.759
I think it's also important that the partner say, I'm in charge, you know, I'm taking care of this.
00:50:45.919 --> 00:50:49.679
Because you can have the permission, but you're like, okay, but who is gonna take care of a baby?
00:50:49.759 --> 00:50:51.119
But okay, the meal needs to be done.
00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:52.000
Who is gonna do it?
00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:54.719
If I am late in the I'm gonna take care of it.
00:50:54.799 --> 00:50:57.919
It's not adding into your time, it's just your bonus time.
00:50:58.000 --> 00:50:59.199
So take it.
00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:00.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:51:00.879 --> 00:51:07.919
And how about mental mental health challenges um during and after pregnancy?
00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:09.679
Uh, what are some of them?
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:11.839
Yes, very important to talk about this.
00:51:11.919 --> 00:51:25.759
So there's like the baby blues, which is frequent, which is not pathological, it can happen, you know, a few days after birth, which is you know, you cry and then you smile, then you don't know what happens, you wonder about yourself.
00:51:25.839 --> 00:51:29.919
It's just the hormonal things, but it lasts a few days, right?
00:51:30.319 --> 00:51:39.919
Versus postpartum, like postpartum depression, which is pathological things, and it can um it can come several months after giving birth, right?
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:44.159
It's not just after, it can be several months after giving birth, and it lasts.
00:51:44.399 --> 00:51:50.159
And it's really, you know, I can't take care of myself, I maybe can't take care of my body or of my baby.
00:51:50.319 --> 00:52:18.480
Sometimes they can still take good care of the baby, but they are just feeling uh hopeful moms, they don't know why they are there, they should be better, the baby should be better, you know, without them, like having this kind of uh bad and dark thoughts, uh crying all the time, can't sleep, this, and that's why it's also important to educate what the pregnant people, but also the partner to be conscious, to be really observe this.
00:52:18.719 --> 00:52:24.319
And for example, me, I was worried about this obviously, and I was telling my partner, you know, pay attention.
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:29.679
If you see this, this, this, you know, like you have to tell me to to see a therapist, you know.
00:52:29.839 --> 00:52:35.439
And I think it's really important to be aware of this, not being scared, but knowing knowing that it can happen.
00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:37.759
And if it happens, okay, what we do?
00:52:37.839 --> 00:52:39.359
What is our action plan?
00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:43.519
And so, what are the things that partners should be aware of?
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:48.239
What are the signs uh of the postpartum depression?
00:52:48.559 --> 00:52:59.199
Yes, so a very low self-esteem about the person who gave birth, crying a lot, or wondering all the time, doubting about themselves.
00:52:59.439 --> 00:53:10.319
So, okay, as your parents, you can dupt a lot, but really feeling like you are the worst uh parents ever, you don't know what to do, you are crying a lot, you are nervous, you can't sleep.
00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:15.839
Um, you you are you know always adapting, you are very anxious, anxiety as well.
00:53:15.919 --> 00:53:19.759
You are very anxious, uh, and you really dupt about yourself.
00:53:19.839 --> 00:53:22.799
Uh, you can't sleep, you maybe don't eat.
00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:26.719
Um, all these things should be a warning sign, you know.
00:53:26.799 --> 00:53:34.079
And if you are not sure, you can call health professional to just say, okay, I observe my my partner is like this and this and this.
00:53:34.159 --> 00:53:35.759
Can you tell me what I can do?
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:37.439
What is it, etc.?
00:53:37.919 --> 00:53:38.719
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:38.879 --> 00:53:39.519
Okay, okay.
00:53:39.839 --> 00:53:46.719
Not going outside as well, sometimes the isolation and uh yeah, feeling like completely uh imposter, you know.
00:53:46.879 --> 00:53:52.960
I'm I'm a mom, but uh I don't feel like you know I can handle this uh this responsibility, this task.
00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:55.359
Uh I don't think I'm the right mom for my baby.
00:53:55.439 --> 00:53:58.079
This kind of thing should be a roaring sign.
00:53:58.639 --> 00:54:04.079
Um of course, as parents, we always wonder this, you know, but it should be something very brief.
00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:06.079
Like the difference is really it lasts.
00:54:06.159 --> 00:54:06.639
I don't know.
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:11.439
It's repeating, it's last, and uh and it's roaring.
00:54:11.839 --> 00:54:12.159
Okay.
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:18.559
And Camille, I have a few questions from the listeners.
00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:21.439
So I would I have two of the two questions.
00:54:21.839 --> 00:54:29.359
Um first one is how about orgasm after pregnancy in um natural way?
00:54:29.759 --> 00:54:32.159
Is it hard to experience it?
00:54:33.679 --> 00:54:40.000
So usually what I like to ask to the people is how it was before being pregnant first.
00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:42.559
Was it something difficult or not?
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:45.279
Because then you I will approach a different way.
00:54:45.439 --> 00:54:54.799
Uh, let's say before it was not difficult, and then okay, these questions is more as I was saying, you know, like the sensations can be different, and sensations are changing all the time, right?
00:54:54.879 --> 00:54:59.119
Not only after post-partum, but after post-partum is more obvious, right?
00:54:59.279 --> 00:55:02.879
So, what is the the connection with your body first?
00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:04.879
You know, how do you feel about your body?
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:06.879
Uh, are you in the present moment?
00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:09.919
You know, because if you are thinking all the time, where is my baby?
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:11.119
Who is taking care of the baby?
00:55:11.279 --> 00:55:17.839
I'm hearing the baby, or I have so many things to do, of course, you're in your mind and you can't really be connected in your sensations.
00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:20.719
So orgasm might not happen, you know.
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:23.519
And also, how do I feel with my partner?
00:55:23.599 --> 00:55:25.839
You know, do I feel connected to my partner?
00:55:26.079 --> 00:55:30.960
And if not, I might not feel safe to really enjoy, you know, also this experience.
00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:36.079
And you know, I'm also thinking like um one two two thoughts.
00:55:36.319 --> 00:55:40.799
That first one is that I have heard someone say in the past that orgasm starts in the head.
00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:57.839
So when you what you said, if you can just kind of don't think about all the things around if some if the baby is taken taken care of or some other shopping list or some other stuff, um then I think that's easier if you can like be present in the moment.
00:55:58.000 --> 00:55:59.599
Um but it's super hard.
00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:02.639
It is super hard, yes, it is.
00:56:02.960 --> 00:56:06.000
And uh what was the other thought?
00:56:06.159 --> 00:56:12.000
Ah, and then you know, maybe not focusing on the orgasm, but just pleasure in general, yeah.
00:56:12.239 --> 00:56:16.319
Same as with penetrative sex, having not penetrative sex.
00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:27.359
Yes, it's good to say it because yeah, for me it just feels like okay, it's a normal thing because uh my approach is uh based on a slow sex, and in slow sex, uh orgasm is not uh the objective.
00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:37.839
It's just okay, can we live the experience in the present moment and just feel all the sensations, all the body sensations, which are already orgasmic states, you know.
00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:43.759
If you are focusing and paying attention to your body sensations, it's just what we want, right?
00:56:43.919 --> 00:56:45.279
So you're right.
00:56:45.759 --> 00:57:04.239
So many times we focus too much on orgasm, which is kind of uh, yeah, it makes sense because in our society we like to be productive, we like to have results and quick results, and orgasm the way that we think orgasm is, it just you know, you have to it has to happen quick and it has to happen the certain way.
00:57:04.399 --> 00:57:10.480
And the more we are expecting something, the more we put pressure on it, and the less it's gonna happen.
00:57:10.799 --> 00:57:19.679
So you're right, we should let this aside and more focusing on the present moment and how can I be connected to my body, how can I be present.
00:57:19.919 --> 00:57:34.879
Um, the mental load, you know, thinking about all the things, the to-do list is um is as I was saying, is easy to say but hard to do, especially when you don't have a partner who does also his responsibility and you are the only one doing everything at home.
00:57:35.199 --> 00:57:38.960
So it's hard to be the present moment and really enjoying it.
00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:47.759
If you, you know, I remember when I was writing the book, a woman told me, Well, I take care all day about the baby, the laundry, the meals, etc.
00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:51.519
And when my partner goes home, I have to spread my legs.
00:57:51.759 --> 00:57:53.119
No, I'm done, you know.
00:57:53.279 --> 00:57:55.519
I want also to have time for myself.
00:57:56.399 --> 00:57:57.599
Yeah, exactly.
00:57:57.839 --> 00:57:58.239
Exactly.
00:57:58.399 --> 00:58:05.199
It it comes to again, like you say, like, okay, your partner uh could took it could take parental leave.
00:58:05.359 --> 00:58:20.480
Um you know, you could guys, you had the communication before you could share the inf share connection and communicate about what are the fears and how can you deal with deal with that tsunami wave that comes after the pregnancy.
00:58:20.799 --> 00:58:22.639
And just the last question.
00:58:22.799 --> 00:58:24.960
So, why after a c-section?
00:58:25.119 --> 00:58:27.679
I don't feel like being close with my partner.
00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:32.719
Okay, so my first question will be how do you feel in your body first?
00:58:33.279 --> 00:58:33.759
Right?
00:58:33.919 --> 00:58:38.159
Uh, because it could be after c-section, but it could be also no link with c-section.
00:58:38.399 --> 00:58:42.559
So if she mentioned c-section, maybe there's a way of a body image.
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:47.199
I I I will ask the questions, you know, how do uh how do you feel in your body?
00:58:47.359 --> 00:58:51.839
Like, can you be able to touch also your belly, to touch the scar of the c-section?
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:54.799
Uh, how did you live the experience of C-section?
00:58:55.039 --> 00:58:56.399
You know, is it traumatic experience?
00:58:56.480 --> 00:58:59.919
Because if she says c-section, maybe it's a traumatic experience for her.
00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:03.119
Uh or how how was your partner also during birth?
00:59:03.279 --> 00:59:05.519
And uh what how do you feel with your partner?
00:59:05.599 --> 00:59:07.439
How do you feel connected to your partner?
00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:12.319
You know, so I will, you know, dive into is it linked to c-section?
00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:17.359
And if so, there's so many questions, you know, body image, experience of birth, and the partner.
00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:35.839
But maybe it might not be linked to c-sections and more still the the body image and how I can reconnect with my partner, or maybe I don't want the same sex as we used to do, but I would like something different, but I have trouble to know what I want or to talk about what I want as well.
00:59:36.159 --> 00:59:37.439
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:48.639
There can be different uh things coming into one place totally, and everything would be actually discussed till now it comes to play in a situation like this.
00:59:48.799 --> 00:59:55.279
So yeah, Camille Camille, sorry, trying to really pronounce it in the right way.
00:59:55.439 --> 01:00:00.239
Um, I think that's a good place for us to finish our chat.
01:00:00.399 --> 01:00:02.319
Uh, and it was really awesome.
01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:05.359
It was great to learn all all of this.
01:00:05.679 --> 01:00:09.519
Um, is there anything that you would like to add?
01:00:11.839 --> 01:00:17.119
Well, very well is important in postpartum, as we say uh through all uh all of this.
01:00:17.199 --> 01:00:32.480
Uh you know, I was not talking about techniques or positions, I'm really talking about the basics which we need to work on, and most of the people, which is communication, being connected to your body, and being connected to your partner.
01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:39.119
And just those three are hard work, you know, and there's a lot of things you can work on this.
01:00:39.359 --> 01:00:46.319
And if you don't have these those three things, it will be difficult to have a satisfied sex life with someone.
01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:52.000
And if someone would like to get in touch with you, what's the best way?
01:00:52.319 --> 01:01:01.759
Yes, so they can like um so on Instagram, I have an Instagram page which is which is Camille ParleSex, so Camille talks about sex in French.
01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:10.719
I also have a podcast uh on the same uh name, and also my website which is uh www.camiebataillon.com.
01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:15.919
And I will link to all of that in the podcast notes so everyone can find you easily.
01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:19.119
Camille, thank you so much for today.
01:01:19.359 --> 01:01:21.599
Yes, it was a pleasure talking with you.
01:01:21.839 --> 01:01:22.399
Thank you.