WEBVTT
00:00:00.719 --> 00:00:05.200
Right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Reactive Dog Training Podcast.
00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:07.759
I am joined today by Kate Gallagher.
00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:08.800
How are you doing, Kate?
00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:10.080
I'm good, thank you.
00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:10.560
How are you?
00:00:11.039 --> 00:00:12.240
I'm very well, thank you.
00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:17.440
Um, do you want to start by telling us um a little bit about yourself and how you came to work with reactive dogs?
00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:25.199
Um, so my name's Kate, um, and I am the faithful dog trainer up in Wigan in the North.
00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:30.559
Um, and I've only been a dog trainer for about two years, maybe a little bit more.
00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:46.560
Uh, before that I was a nurse, um, but I came to working with reactive dogs um because I was kind of going out when I was training uh to be a dog trainer with uh a physio.
00:00:46.640 --> 00:01:10.319
So I was going out and seeing so many um instances of pain-related reactivity, so I kind of went that way first, um, and then I sort of just ended up steering into most of my cases with reactivity, and that was really what um I enjoyed doing more than loose lead recall.
00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:15.599
I do um assistance dog training, but I only have one client at a time.
00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:21.680
I like to see them through for the public access test, and then I've got to wait until they'll take someone else on then.
00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:38.159
Um, but my my most uh most of my work is reactivity, and I actually think that's because of the people, um, and because of the caregivers, owners, handlers, whatever you want to call them.
00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:53.120
Um and and I think that's why I'm so passionate about it, is because people need um educating, uh, nurturing, loving, being accepted.
00:01:53.359 --> 00:02:01.359
Um, and sometimes it's that confidence build um of the owner, and that that's how I ended up with reactivity, really.
00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:02.079
Yeah, great.
00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:03.840
So you like a challenge then?
00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:08.879
Yeah, let's face it, it's it's a challenge, isn't it?
00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:13.280
It's not like you say, it's not like just lead walking, which is like Bish Bash Bosh.
00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:20.319
Yeah, we're actually going into a more complex um and every single reactivity case is different.
00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:31.039
Um, I seemed to get at one point I seemed to get loads of adolescent males barrier frustration, not reactivity, and I was like, right, okay.
00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:34.800
And I was honestly thinking, do I create an adolescent program?
00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:50.080
Because this all we had to do was sort out needs met, needs met, needs met, um, outlets, outlets, uh, and just doing a bit of training on impulse control, self-regulation, and they were done.
00:02:50.319 --> 00:03:01.360
Um, but I do I do still take the the frustration on really because it's still reactivity and it can still transform into that redirection.
00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:06.000
Um, I had it with my my own dog, um, Lucy.
00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:18.800
She's uh Labrador and uh work in Labrador, so I took her to a gundog training, and um she waits on the pet beautifully if there's three or four dogs.
00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:22.639
Uh and then we went to one session where they put all the classes together.
00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:27.919
We'll have a trip out to the woods, and there was 10, and she had to wait too long.
00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:34.800
So she was noisy, and I'm saying it's okay, come on, let's, you know, you can do this.
00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:38.240
And she told me multiple times and I didn't listen.
00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:46.319
And so she redirected and she she bit my hand, and I was like, Oh, yeah, you did tell me multiple times, and I didn't listen.
00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:49.599
We've all read, yeah.
00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:53.199
I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, that was totally my fault.
00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:59.199
Like so, even that adolescence can, you know, but yeah, some are quite challenging, aren't they?
00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:14.080
And and some it's just um learnt history or an F a previous evidence or trauma response from the human, and it's working through that and building relationship and confidence again.
00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:26.800
Yeah, and I love that you picked up on that human element because I think like that's what we want to talk about today is like this emotional, this emotional side to the reactivity and the human psychology side of stuff as well.
00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:29.600
Um, which brings me on nicely to my next question.
00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:34.399
Why do you think the human side of dog behaviour is so often overlooked?
00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:46.639
Oh, I think when someone says a dog trainer or dog behaviour is they no one sees what's around the dog.
00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:55.199
They see a dog and they look at a case study of a dog and well, what's happening in the dog's life and what's happening in it.
00:04:55.439 --> 00:05:09.360
They don't tend to look at that bigger picture of the the caregivers, the owners, um, what's going on in their life, what has happened, um, what was your previous dog like?
00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:33.759
Um, and I think it's just so overlooked because I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, this was probably the same for you, Claire, is uh you were all peopled out, so you went into dog the dog world because you wanted to work with dogs and animals, and um I think sometimes people don't realise how much of it is actually educating humans more than training dogs.
00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:34.879
Yeah, 100%.
00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:41.439
Yeah, yeah, you definitely have to um, like you say, you start thinking, yeah, we're just gonna work with the dogs, it's gonna be great.
00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:47.360
And I don't know about you, I started dog walking and I would literally spend all my time with the dogs, which was great.
00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:50.639
And then as you moved into that training, it's like, oh, hang on a minute.
00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:55.279
Yeah, these social skills are needed now to help the human as well.
00:05:55.600 --> 00:06:01.199
Um what do you think some of the biggest emotional challenges are that reactive dog owners face?
00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:13.040
Uh guilt, judgment, sadness, grief for a for a life that they thought they'd have with the dog.
00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:25.040
Um you know, resentment, even there's so many, but but then as well as all that, so much love for this dog.
00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:46.000
I know my assistant Jess, her dog, there's very few people who see him in his wonderful moments because he's so people reactive, bite history, um, so stressed when people are in the home.
00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:57.120
So she has a real sadness for the Milo that no one sees and that she loves and enjoys so much.
00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:01.279
But there's so much, there's so many emotions tied to it.
00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:02.319
There really is.
00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:05.519
Yeah, no, I can completely agree with that.
00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:15.439
And and the resentment one, I don't think, comes up a lot because I think people are scared to talk about it because they don't want it being perceived as like, oh my god, this person hates their dog.
00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:17.120
Like, why do they have the dog?
00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:18.959
You know, all these judgments that come in.
00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:20.560
So I think that's a really good one.
00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:29.519
Um, and I guess as a part of that, we then see a lack of confidence in the handler because of all of this stuff that they're feeling.
00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:34.800
Why do you think so many people lose confidence during that reactive dog journey?
00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:37.439
And like, how can they start rebuilding it?
00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:49.839
So, in two parts, really, I think they lose that confidence due to being scared, um, seeing your dog in a really different light.
00:07:50.079 --> 00:08:03.680
Um, you know, that's not the dog I have at home and the dog that I really trust, or it, you know, that's you just see a different side to your dog that you that scurs you, and I think you lose confidence.
00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:10.319
Um but I think I think this, and I'm veering off a little bit.
00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:16.240
I think this is where people go for control to feel safe.
00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:19.680
So we don't control dogs, the faithful family.
00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:21.519
We don't work on controlling dogs.
00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:26.720
We like consent, we like autonomy, and we like um saying safety.
00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:37.200
So I do a lot of work up at um with rescue centres up at Carnel Lane, um, and we have to have slip leads, we have to, um, for the dogs.
00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.039
But I said to them, stop using only slip leads.
00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:48.000
If there is your backup for safety, not we're not controlling them, still get them used to harnesses leads.
00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:56.799
Um, but I think this is where that that fear of I was scared, now I've got this fear in me.
00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:13.360
I'm gonna use something so I feel more in control, and I think that that's where your fallout starts coming with your relationship because people think you have to walk your dog every day, three times a day, you know, on the pavement, pounding.
00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:15.120
Um, and that's what you have to do.
00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:29.759
So, in order to do that, I'm gonna use something um to help control my dog, whether that's a slit lead, a prung collar, an e-collar, a bark collar, uh whole tape, you know, and it's that um desperation, isn't it?
00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:32.320
And I suppose it's being accepted in society.
00:09:32.559 --> 00:09:35.759
If you have a dog, you have to walk it.
00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:44.080
Um, you know, I've got a friend who who has 18 dogs, so she doesn't walk them.
00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:52.480
They don't have leads, she has quite a big property, and they just mill about, and that's you know, they're they're life and they're happy.
00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:56.159
Um, but yeah, where where do you then go for rebuilding it?
00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:58.000
Um the faithful dog trainer.
00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:00.240
A good answer.
00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:02.960
I will have to be.
00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:04.399
We'll come to that later, okay.
00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:16.240
But um rebuilding a relationship in stripping it all back, no pressure.
00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:26.240
I've just done this with uh um uh these sisters who've got this lovely dog, um and they've got a previous history of a reactive dog.
00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:35.440
They've now got a lovely, happy go-lucky puppy, but they are very worried of the reac of what could happen.
00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:46.159
Um, so we just took all pressure off, no walks for two weeks, secure fields only, loads of ace-free work, um, just take the pressure off yourself.
00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:50.080
It I know always think ask the question for who?
00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:52.080
You know, who are you doing this for?
00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:58.799
Is it to look like one of the you know neighbors walking your dog every day?
00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:03.200
Or or is it for your dog, like you and your relationship?
00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:04.639
Yeah, I love that.
00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:28.559
And I think there's so there is so you mentioned pressure, and I think there's so much pressure from just society itself, but also now social media, where we have like this almost um what they call peacocks fluffing their their feathers, where it's like, well, if your dog can't do this, then it's wrong, and and and you have to do this, and it's it's just BS, isn't it?
00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:44.639
You know, it's like with if if you don't have that dog, or you're not there yet where you can like just enjoy a walk, then why are you putting so much pressure on yourself to get this perfect robotic dog?
00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:58.080
And like I think people can fall into this trap, but what do you think can happen when owners stop focusing solely on fixing behavior and start focusing on building that relationship instead?
00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:01.279
So I actually had this the other week.
00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:10.960
Um one of my clients, this this particular dog, um, they were like, they're like, we have to drag him out in the evening to go for his evening walk.
00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:15.279
I said, Well, stop it, stop taking it for a walk.
00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.159
They were like, Oh, I was like, Yeah, yeah.
00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:22.720
And then um everything just calmed down.
00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:26.000
Uh, he's walking nicely, he's not as worried.
00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:36.000
And then the other night he asked to go out for a walk in the evening, so he went up to his harness because he's a very clever dog, drags it out, brought it to Mom, and sat there, like, here we go.
00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:39.120
So she said, All right, okay, put the harness on, out they go.
00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:44.399
They got two houses down, he stopped, had a sniff of the ear, and then walked back.
00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:47.360
And I said, Great, that's what he wanted to do.
00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:54.240
Yeah, and she said, Um, I said, You're doing so well with him, and she said, I am sorry, Sam.
00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:58.399
Don't worry, I'm surprised Logan's not made an appearance.
00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:07.120
Um so uh she said, We just weren't listening to him, that's all.
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:09.919
They just weren't listening, and I was like, Yeah, that's that's right.
00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:16.320
But she also said, My ultimate goal is to go to the pub with him.
00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:19.039
I said, All right, have you tried taking him to the pub?
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:21.039
Um yeah, he didn't like it.
00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:25.039
I said, So why do you want to take in the pub?
00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:29.679
And I was like, is that for you or is that for your dog?
00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:34.240
Uh and that's a question I often ask, is that for you or is that for your dog?
00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:38.080
Is that for society to accept a Labrador's lay at your feet at the pub?
00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:40.879
You know, or does your dog want to go to the pub?
00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:42.000
And she's like, No.
00:13:42.559 --> 00:14:00.320
And sometimes I I explain, like she's got uh neurodivergent children, and I said, That is sometimes it's like asking your autistic child to go to a busy place without their ear defenders, without the the stimulation and and coping mechanisms.
00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:10.639
And if they don't want to go, they don't have to do the and she's like, No, yeah, putting those human analogies on it can really help people to understand, can't they?
00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:26.799
And um, like a lot of this stuff, like if we if we if we did analyse it like that, and we did put it into that human terms, I think a lot of people would then have that penny drop and go, yeah, you know, like why didn't I think of that with the dog?
00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:27.759
So I love that.
00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:33.039
Um earlier on you mentioned about grief with reactivity.
00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:40.159
Is there a grieving process involved when the dog you have isn't the dog that you imagined?
00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:42.480
Uh I think so.
00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:55.200
I think I think there's a fine line with it of grief, disappointment, old dogs, comparisons.
00:14:55.519 --> 00:15:01.919
Um I've got a painting right next to me of the most perfect dog in the world.
00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:06.480
And when I lost him, it really killed us.
00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:14.960
Like it was one of the worst like losing about any animal because of what he'd been through with me in my life and stuff.
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:19.679
So the when you get the next dog, you then compare him.
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:23.200
Um Harley didn't do that.
00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:24.639
Sam's in the bin.
00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:26.639
Harley never went in the bin, did he?
00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:35.919
No, you know, and and I'm putting uh different expectations on different dogs.
00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:48.559
Um so I think the grief I definitely think you there's a lot of emotion with not having the dog you expected.
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:55.120
Um and and that can be quite sad, can't it?
00:15:55.200 --> 00:16:03.039
And and you kind of grieve something that that's not even fur, it's not even that dog.
00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:16.960
I think I find it hard because I of uh where I am and my mindset at the minute of um not putting expectations and pressures on dogs, but I definitely think that that there is with some owners, yeah.
00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:18.000
Yeah, 100%.
00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:21.679
I mean, uh I've been through it myself, recently lost some dogs.
00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:28.559
Um and like she was just one of those dogs, sounds similar to yours that just that just got it.
00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:35.360
Yeah, she just got it, and it's very easy to like see those similarities, and I guess you hear it all the time as well.
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:46.159
It's like, oh, I've had five uh retrievers before this, but this one's like completely different, and it's like, well, yeah, they're they're all individuals, you know.
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:53.679
Yeah, um, but also I do think um now I think the breeding's very different now, yeah, yeah.
00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:58.559
So like I've always had shepherds, I know you've had shepherds, and I and I love them.
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:02.480
Um but I don't think I'd have one now.
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:03.919
Agreed, yeah.
00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:07.039
I just don't, and I think breeding's a bit different now.
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:29.279
I think the COVID and then there was separation anxiety, and then uh things got passed in genetic, and it's so I just I do think dogs aren't equipped to to always slot into our world, and sometimes we have to find what do they love doing and do more of that, and then can you possibly do this for me, you know?
00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:32.000
And I don't know, maybe not talking in riddles.
00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:45.440
No, I I completely understand, and to be honest, if if I hadn't found Logan, who when I met him, I was like, You're bomb-proof, you like, you know, from where for where you are and what you're doing, you're bomb-proof.
00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:55.759
I don't think I would have had another shepherd because dot especially, I was like, Oh my god, like is this a is this a um a definition of the breed now?
00:17:55.839 --> 00:18:07.119
But also Hunter previously, like it very, very anxious, and yeah, a lot in Shepherd, it's like we're not building for that stability anymore, or it doesn't seem to be.
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:13.039
Um, what do you think success looks like for a reactive dog owner?
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:22.720
Like if we took like maybe the mildest form of reactivity, but also like the more extreme styles as well, styles forms, sorry.
00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:25.680
Yeah, I think I mean sometimes it is a style.
00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:30.720
Yeah, Lucy certainly has a bit of a style going for her, real flex.
00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:44.880
We was in agility and uh my old my my owner, my teacher shouts when Lucy's finished singing the song of her people, you're next, and I was like, because she sounds like a turkey.
00:18:46.960 --> 00:19:11.519
She's like, I wanna go, she's just a nutter, um but yeah, I think success for me looks like being your dog's safe place, them having a safe place, them having autonomy and do on and consent, and then doing more of what they love doing than what they hate doing.
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:24.799
That so uh Victoria Stillwell did something about reactivity zones, and actually, instead of just working in that reactivity, there's so much to it, isn't there?
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:34.880
That I could you could go on and on and on without explaining reactivity and stretch zones and um settle disturbed before you react.
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:42.720
And and instead of keep working in those zones and working and pushing and stretching, and can they do a bit more?
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:44.000
Can they do a bit more?
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:53.359
Let them be where they want to be more than you can still work on that reactivity, that's fine.
00:19:54.160 --> 00:20:06.880
But I mean, my friend Joe, Joe Pay, she had her dog twist, and he didn't like this, didn't like that, didn't like cars, didn't like people, didn't like this.
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:08.720
So she bought a field.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:15.119
Nice, yeah, no visitors, he has a field, and he lived his best life.
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:19.279
And I thought, yeah, but you know, why not?
00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:20.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:29.759
And you you know, like what would you say to people that probably have this notion of well, isn't that just avoiding the problem?
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:32.960
Because we get a lot of that in that society as well, don't we?
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:34.000
I I completely agree.
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:50.880
Work to the dog's um capabilities, and and if you do more of what they love, then obviously your reactivity will lessen, but there will be maybe some people out there who have maybe thought or been told or or or heard multiple times, well, that's not fixing it.
00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:52.559
What would you say to that?
00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:58.240
Yeah, I knew it would be a controversial question.
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:10.960
Well, people call me kind Kate, okay, but I do have um, you know, if you're pushing my my buttons on certain things, but I'll I'll be I didn't mean to, I didn't mean to.
00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:12.720
No, no, not you, not you.
00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:13.839
No, no, no.
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:22.799
I so don't see things as problems, uh see behavior as communication.
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:24.880
So, what's the dog telling me?
00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:31.920
Good or good or bad behaviour, that's our concept preconception, not theirs.
00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:40.880
They simply behave, and if they are saying I'm really uncomfortable with this, I'm not gonna put them in that situation.
00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:43.839
Is it depending on what the situation is?
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:56.160
So, say if it was the vets, obviously they've got to go sometimes, so then I would work on you know consent and handling and husbandry care, and can you do this voluntarily and and help with that?
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.440
Um, but there's the we don't do fixing.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:05.839
I don't fix anything because that's that's that's your expectation as the human.
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:12.160
Um we listen to the dog, however, I am very much here for humans.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:47.839
So what I'll do is educate with kindness, or we s we say with grace, so with understanding, and um if I I'm never gonna judge someone or be hurtful to any person like I wouldn't to a dog or an animal or a horse or whatever, but um so I will educate them with that understanding, and I'll always go at their pace as well, yeah, of what they can take at that time without feeling that it's a judgment.
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:50.160
I don't know if that makes sense.
00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:51.759
So if I yeah, yeah.
00:22:52.319 --> 00:23:07.759
Uh you can't Julius K9 harnesses the rubbish, you can't have a retractable lead, just say wait once, stop saying wait, wait, what you know, they'll they'll feel attacked, they shut down, and then they go, Oh, I'm doing everything wrong.
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:09.200
Yeah, and then give up.
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:13.839
Yeah, so what I'm gonna say is, oh, just try my lead for a minute.
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:23.599
Uh, we're gonna use this instead, just why you know, we're trading, uh, and then I'll I'll talk to them about information about the harness and why it's rubbish and why these ones are better.
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:30.559
Oh, I've got a discount code as well for that, you know, and and helping them in a kind, understanding way.
00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:32.160
Yeah, I love it, I love it.
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:41.039
I think this um, like we mentioned earlier, like there's a lot of ego out there and a lot of pressure put on I think dog trainers as well.
00:23:41.119 --> 00:24:03.279
Like, I watched some of these videos and I'm like, are you putting your dog through that because you feel like you have to, or is it because we've had like this whole social media influence that if you aren't able to do that, that there's something detrimentally wrong with you as a trainer, and then I think that transfers out into people as well, where again this pressure just builds and they feel that they have to.
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:06.240
So, yeah, removing that pressure.
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:10.079
I mean, I did it with dog, like you know, I did that whole ego boosting thing.
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:21.519
I was like, Look, I'm gonna take this human reactive dog and I'm gonna work with her, and and we built up and we walked her down the town, and then um I stopped and I was like, Who am I doing this for?
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:24.319
You but it's not for Dot.
00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:42.880
She's not my coffee shop dog, she's not my go shopping dog, like she's she's not my dog, and and taking that pressure off and going, we're gonna enjoy quiet walks, we're gonna do the stuff that you love, which is like um her grc stuff and biting things, and you know, in a structured and you know what?
00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:46.079
She's been 10 times happier, as have I.
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:51.119
So that's a big lesson, I think, for a lot of people on this call today.
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:59.599
And we probably we've probably already mentioned it, but if you could leave every reactive dog owner with one message, what would it be?
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:05.200
Um sorry, I'm tight when I say one.
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:14.799
I should really say three, but just love your dog, you don't have to like them, but love them, yeah.
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.720
Yeah, just love your dog and and take just take the pressure off.
00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:26.880
Honestly, for all of you involved, because the more stressed you get as a human, the more stress your dog's gonna get.
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:30.480
Um, my trainer, because I go to a trainer, of course.
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:35.200
Yeah, because I can't, you know, do my own class with my dog, yeah.
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:41.599
Classes with my dog, and she she said, Um, stop acting weird in front of your dog.
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:43.119
And I was like, What do you mean?
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:49.519
She's like, when they're in a sit wait or stay and you're walking backwards, word, word, creeping backwards.
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:53.599
She said, then they'll get up because they think, What's wrong with her, you know?
00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:58.400
So take the pressure off, take a breath and love them.
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:03.839
I remember going out once um to a class with Sam, my angel dog.
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:17.039
He sat next to me, he's uh the stooge dog, the perfect, uh, brilliant dog, and he demand barked in my face for 10 minutes, and so I left crying.
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:22.240
And he's he'd never done it, he'd never barked, he never barked at me in demand bark.
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:26.480
And I went home and cried, and I was like, put him in the crate, put him over there.
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:28.319
I can't even look at him.
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:33.839
And I text my friend, I was like, I can't believe he's done this, and she was like, just cuddle him.
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:34.559
And I was like, What?
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:36.240
She's like, Why have you got a dog?
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:41.039
And I was like, Because I love him, and I've cuddled, yeah, just cuddle your dog, just love them.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.039
Love it, I love it, and it takes so much stress away, doesn't it?
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:47.599
It's like they're allowed to have feelings, yeah.
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:50.880
And he was clearly telling you something in that moment, yeah.
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:53.359
Um I love that, I love that.
00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:55.920
Kate, fantastic interview.
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:02.319
Do you want to tell people more about where they can find your stuff online in person?
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:11.279
Um, so our website is the faithfuldogtrainer.co.uk and we're the faithful dog trainer on Facebook and Instagram.
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:12.319
Oh, and TikTok.
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:14.000
I always forget about TikTok.
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:19.119
But some of my videos they went viral, but I never go on and check.
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:23.440
So I use it as an editor, upload my video and then close it.
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:25.599
And then someone's like, Hey, you've gone viral.
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:30.240
Good way to use social media.
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:35.200
Well, this is what I was gonna say to you about pressure and social media.
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:37.279
That's generally what I do.
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:44.799
So go on my social, use it as uh posting an update or editing a video, and then I cover off it.
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:56.400
Yeah, and honestly, um so um the faithful doctrine, I'm all about being faithful, kind, loving, accepting.
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:08.400
Um and I think if I start doom scrolling and being, you know, all of this seeping into my brain, um, it it just doesn't do me very well.
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:13.839
Um and I kind of stay in my lane, and I don't mean that in a rude way.
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:17.359
I'm just doing my thing in we call it Kate's world.
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:19.359
I'm a little bit fantasy.
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:23.440
There's rainbows, there's butterflies, everyone can be who they want to be.
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:29.839
I stay in my lane, um, and along the way, if I can help people, I will.
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.200
You know, I'm not saying this is all mine, you know.
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:39.279
I freely give information and education, but I don't worry about what anyone else is doing.
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:43.599
Unless they like it, and then I'm like, oh, I could use a bit of that, and that's brilliant.
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:44.960
I'll pass that message on.
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:47.920
And yeah, I love it, I love it.
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:49.680
Well, thank you very much, Kate.
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:51.519
It's been a pleasure talking with you.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:54.960
And for the listeners, I hope you've enjoyed um this conversation.
00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:56.480
Go and check out Kate's stuff.
00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:01.599
I'll make sure that I link it all below in the description for you, and we will look forward to seeing you next week.
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:03.119
Ciao for now, everybody.
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:03.519
Bye.
00:00:00.719 --> 00:00:05.200
Right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Reactive Dog Training Podcast.
00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:07.759
I am joined today by Kate Gallagher.
00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:08.800
How are you doing, Kate?
00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:10.080
I'm good, thank you.
00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:10.560
How are you?
00:00:11.039 --> 00:00:12.240
I'm very well, thank you.
00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:17.440
Um, do you want to start by telling us um a little bit about yourself and how you came to work with reactive dogs?
00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:25.199
Um, so my name's Kate, um, and I am the faithful dog trainer up in Wigan in the North.
00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:30.559
Um, and I've only been a dog trainer for about two years, maybe a little bit more.
00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:46.560
Uh, before that I was a nurse, um, but I came to working with reactive dogs um because I was kind of going out when I was training uh to be a dog trainer with uh a physio.
00:00:46.640 --> 00:01:10.319
So I was going out and seeing so many um instances of pain-related reactivity, so I kind of went that way first, um, and then I sort of just ended up steering into most of my cases with reactivity, and that was really what um I enjoyed doing more than loose lead recall.
00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:15.599
I do um assistance dog training, but I only have one client at a time.
00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:21.680
I like to see them through for the public access test, and then I've got to wait until they'll take someone else on then.
00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:38.159
Um, but my my most uh most of my work is reactivity, and I actually think that's because of the people, um, and because of the caregivers, owners, handlers, whatever you want to call them.
00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:53.120
Um and and I think that's why I'm so passionate about it, is because people need um educating, uh, nurturing, loving, being accepted.
00:01:53.359 --> 00:02:01.359
Um, and sometimes it's that confidence build um of the owner, and that that's how I ended up with reactivity, really.
00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:02.079
Yeah, great.
00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:03.840
So you like a challenge then?
00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:08.879
Yeah, let's face it, it's it's a challenge, isn't it?
00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:13.280
It's not like you say, it's not like just lead walking, which is like Bish Bash Bosh.
00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:20.319
Yeah, we're actually going into a more complex um and every single reactivity case is different.
00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:31.039
Um, I seemed to get at one point I seemed to get loads of adolescent males barrier frustration, not reactivity, and I was like, right, okay.
00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:34.800
And I was honestly thinking, do I create an adolescent program?
00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:50.080
Because this all we had to do was sort out needs met, needs met, needs met, um, outlets, outlets, uh, and just doing a bit of training on impulse control, self-regulation, and they were done.
00:02:50.319 --> 00:03:01.360
Um, but I do I do still take the the frustration on really because it's still reactivity and it can still transform into that redirection.
00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:06.000
Um, I had it with my my own dog, um, Lucy.
00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:18.800
She's uh Labrador and uh work in Labrador, so I took her to a gundog training, and um she waits on the pet beautifully if there's three or four dogs.
00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:22.639
Uh and then we went to one session where they put all the classes together.
00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:27.919
We'll have a trip out to the woods, and there was 10, and she had to wait too long.
00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:34.800
So she was noisy, and I'm saying it's okay, come on, let's, you know, you can do this.
00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:38.240
And she told me multiple times and I didn't listen.
00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:46.319
And so she redirected and she she bit my hand, and I was like, Oh, yeah, you did tell me multiple times, and I didn't listen.
00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:49.599
We've all read, yeah.
00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:53.199
I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, that was totally my fault.
00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:59.199
Like so, even that adolescence can, you know, but yeah, some are quite challenging, aren't they?
00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:14.080
And and some it's just um learnt history or an F a previous evidence or trauma response from the human, and it's working through that and building relationship and confidence again.
00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:26.800
Yeah, and I love that you picked up on that human element because I think like that's what we want to talk about today is like this emotional, this emotional side to the reactivity and the human psychology side of stuff as well.
00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:29.600
Um, which brings me on nicely to my next question.
00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:34.399
Why do you think the human side of dog behaviour is so often overlooked?
00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:46.639
Oh, I think when someone says a dog trainer or dog behaviour is they no one sees what's around the dog.
00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:55.199
They see a dog and they look at a case study of a dog and well, what's happening in the dog's life and what's happening in it.
00:04:55.439 --> 00:05:09.360
They don't tend to look at that bigger picture of the the caregivers, the owners, um, what's going on in their life, what has happened, um, what was your previous dog like?
00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:33.759
Um, and I think it's just so overlooked because I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, this was probably the same for you, Claire, is uh you were all peopled out, so you went into dog the dog world because you wanted to work with dogs and animals, and um I think sometimes people don't realise how much of it is actually educating humans more than training dogs.
00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:34.879
Yeah, 100%.
00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:41.439
Yeah, yeah, you definitely have to um, like you say, you start thinking, yeah, we're just gonna work with the dogs, it's gonna be great.
00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:47.360
And I don't know about you, I started dog walking and I would literally spend all my time with the dogs, which was great.
00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:50.639
And then as you moved into that training, it's like, oh, hang on a minute.
00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:55.279
Yeah, these social skills are needed now to help the human as well.
00:05:55.600 --> 00:06:01.199
Um what do you think some of the biggest emotional challenges are that reactive dog owners face?
00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:13.040
Uh guilt, judgment, sadness, grief for a for a life that they thought they'd have with the dog.
00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:25.040
Um you know, resentment, even there's so many, but but then as well as all that, so much love for this dog.
00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:46.000
I know my assistant Jess, her dog, there's very few people who see him in his wonderful moments because he's so people reactive, bite history, um, so stressed when people are in the home.
00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:57.120
So she has a real sadness for the Milo that no one sees and that she loves and enjoys so much.
00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:01.279
But there's so much, there's so many emotions tied to it.
00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:02.319
There really is.
00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:05.519
Yeah, no, I can completely agree with that.
00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:15.439
And and the resentment one, I don't think, comes up a lot because I think people are scared to talk about it because they don't want it being perceived as like, oh my god, this person hates their dog.
00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:17.120
Like, why do they have the dog?
00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:18.959
You know, all these judgments that come in.
00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:20.560
So I think that's a really good one.
00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:29.519
Um, and I guess as a part of that, we then see a lack of confidence in the handler because of all of this stuff that they're feeling.
00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:34.800
Why do you think so many people lose confidence during that reactive dog journey?
00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:37.439
And like, how can they start rebuilding it?
00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:49.839
So, in two parts, really, I think they lose that confidence due to being scared, um, seeing your dog in a really different light.
00:07:50.079 --> 00:08:03.680
Um, you know, that's not the dog I have at home and the dog that I really trust, or it, you know, that's you just see a different side to your dog that you that scurs you, and I think you lose confidence.
00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:10.319
Um but I think I think this, and I'm veering off a little bit.
00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:16.240
I think this is where people go for control to feel safe.
00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:19.680
So we don't control dogs, the faithful family.
00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:21.519
We don't work on controlling dogs.
00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:26.720
We like consent, we like autonomy, and we like um saying safety.
00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:37.200
So I do a lot of work up at um with rescue centres up at Carnel Lane, um, and we have to have slip leads, we have to, um, for the dogs.
00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.039
But I said to them, stop using only slip leads.
00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:48.000
If there is your backup for safety, not we're not controlling them, still get them used to harnesses leads.
00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:56.799
Um, but I think this is where that that fear of I was scared, now I've got this fear in me.
00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:13.360
I'm gonna use something so I feel more in control, and I think that that's where your fallout starts coming with your relationship because people think you have to walk your dog every day, three times a day, you know, on the pavement, pounding.
00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:15.120
Um, and that's what you have to do.
00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:29.759
So, in order to do that, I'm gonna use something um to help control my dog, whether that's a slit lead, a prung collar, an e-collar, a bark collar, uh whole tape, you know, and it's that um desperation, isn't it?
00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:32.320
And I suppose it's being accepted in society.
00:09:32.559 --> 00:09:35.759
If you have a dog, you have to walk it.
00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:44.080
Um, you know, I've got a friend who who has 18 dogs, so she doesn't walk them.
00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:52.480
They don't have leads, she has quite a big property, and they just mill about, and that's you know, they're they're life and they're happy.
00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:56.159
Um, but yeah, where where do you then go for rebuilding it?
00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:58.000
Um the faithful dog trainer.
00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:00.240
A good answer.
00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:02.960
I will have to be.
00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:04.399
We'll come to that later, okay.
00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:16.240
But um rebuilding a relationship in stripping it all back, no pressure.
00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:26.240
I've just done this with uh um uh these sisters who've got this lovely dog, um and they've got a previous history of a reactive dog.
00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:35.440
They've now got a lovely, happy go-lucky puppy, but they are very worried of the reac of what could happen.
00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:46.159
Um, so we just took all pressure off, no walks for two weeks, secure fields only, loads of ace-free work, um, just take the pressure off yourself.
00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:50.080
It I know always think ask the question for who?
00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:52.080
You know, who are you doing this for?
00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:58.799
Is it to look like one of the you know neighbors walking your dog every day?
00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:03.200
Or or is it for your dog, like you and your relationship?
00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:04.639
Yeah, I love that.
00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:28.559
And I think there's so there is so you mentioned pressure, and I think there's so much pressure from just society itself, but also now social media, where we have like this almost um what they call peacocks fluffing their their feathers, where it's like, well, if your dog can't do this, then it's wrong, and and and you have to do this, and it's it's just BS, isn't it?
00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:44.639
You know, it's like with if if you don't have that dog, or you're not there yet where you can like just enjoy a walk, then why are you putting so much pressure on yourself to get this perfect robotic dog?
00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:58.080
And like I think people can fall into this trap, but what do you think can happen when owners stop focusing solely on fixing behavior and start focusing on building that relationship instead?
00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:01.279
So I actually had this the other week.
00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:10.960
Um one of my clients, this this particular dog, um, they were like, they're like, we have to drag him out in the evening to go for his evening walk.
00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:15.279
I said, Well, stop it, stop taking it for a walk.
00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.159
They were like, Oh, I was like, Yeah, yeah.
00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:22.720
And then um everything just calmed down.
00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:26.000
Uh, he's walking nicely, he's not as worried.
00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:36.000
And then the other night he asked to go out for a walk in the evening, so he went up to his harness because he's a very clever dog, drags it out, brought it to Mom, and sat there, like, here we go.
00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:39.120
So she said, All right, okay, put the harness on, out they go.
00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:44.399
They got two houses down, he stopped, had a sniff of the ear, and then walked back.
00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:47.360
And I said, Great, that's what he wanted to do.
00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:54.240
Yeah, and she said, Um, I said, You're doing so well with him, and she said, I am sorry, Sam.
00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:58.399
Don't worry, I'm surprised Logan's not made an appearance.
00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:07.120
Um so uh she said, We just weren't listening to him, that's all.
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:09.919
They just weren't listening, and I was like, Yeah, that's that's right.
00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:16.320
But she also said, My ultimate goal is to go to the pub with him.
00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:19.039
I said, All right, have you tried taking him to the pub?
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:21.039
Um yeah, he didn't like it.
00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:25.039
I said, So why do you want to take in the pub?
00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:29.679
And I was like, is that for you or is that for your dog?
00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:34.240
Uh and that's a question I often ask, is that for you or is that for your dog?
00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:38.080
Is that for society to accept a Labrador's lay at your feet at the pub?
00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:40.879
You know, or does your dog want to go to the pub?
00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:42.000
And she's like, No.
00:13:42.559 --> 00:14:00.320
And sometimes I I explain, like she's got uh neurodivergent children, and I said, That is sometimes it's like asking your autistic child to go to a busy place without their ear defenders, without the the stimulation and and coping mechanisms.
00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:10.639
And if they don't want to go, they don't have to do the and she's like, No, yeah, putting those human analogies on it can really help people to understand, can't they?
00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:26.799
And um, like a lot of this stuff, like if we if we if we did analyse it like that, and we did put it into that human terms, I think a lot of people would then have that penny drop and go, yeah, you know, like why didn't I think of that with the dog?
00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:27.759
So I love that.
00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:33.039
Um earlier on you mentioned about grief with reactivity.
00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:40.159
Is there a grieving process involved when the dog you have isn't the dog that you imagined?
00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:42.480
Uh I think so.
00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:55.200
I think I think there's a fine line with it of grief, disappointment, old dogs, comparisons.
00:14:55.519 --> 00:15:01.919
Um I've got a painting right next to me of the most perfect dog in the world.
00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:06.480
And when I lost him, it really killed us.
00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:14.960
Like it was one of the worst like losing about any animal because of what he'd been through with me in my life and stuff.
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:19.679
So the when you get the next dog, you then compare him.
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:23.200
Um Harley didn't do that.
00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:24.639
Sam's in the bin.
00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:26.639
Harley never went in the bin, did he?
00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:35.919
No, you know, and and I'm putting uh different expectations on different dogs.
00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:48.559
Um so I think the grief I definitely think you there's a lot of emotion with not having the dog you expected.
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:55.120
Um and and that can be quite sad, can't it?
00:15:55.200 --> 00:16:03.039
And and you kind of grieve something that that's not even fur, it's not even that dog.
00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:16.960
I think I find it hard because I of uh where I am and my mindset at the minute of um not putting expectations and pressures on dogs, but I definitely think that that there is with some owners, yeah.
00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:18.000
Yeah, 100%.
00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:21.679
I mean, uh I've been through it myself, recently lost some dogs.
00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:28.559
Um and like she was just one of those dogs, sounds similar to yours that just that just got it.
00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:35.360
Yeah, she just got it, and it's very easy to like see those similarities, and I guess you hear it all the time as well.
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:46.159
It's like, oh, I've had five uh retrievers before this, but this one's like completely different, and it's like, well, yeah, they're they're all individuals, you know.
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:53.679
Yeah, um, but also I do think um now I think the breeding's very different now, yeah, yeah.
00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:58.559
So like I've always had shepherds, I know you've had shepherds, and I and I love them.
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:02.480
Um but I don't think I'd have one now.
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:03.919
Agreed, yeah.
00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:07.039
I just don't, and I think breeding's a bit different now.
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:29.279
I think the COVID and then there was separation anxiety, and then uh things got passed in genetic, and it's so I just I do think dogs aren't equipped to to always slot into our world, and sometimes we have to find what do they love doing and do more of that, and then can you possibly do this for me, you know?
00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:32.000
And I don't know, maybe not talking in riddles.
00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:45.440
No, I I completely understand, and to be honest, if if I hadn't found Logan, who when I met him, I was like, You're bomb-proof, you like, you know, from where for where you are and what you're doing, you're bomb-proof.
00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:55.759
I don't think I would have had another shepherd because dot especially, I was like, Oh my god, like is this a is this a um a definition of the breed now?
00:17:55.839 --> 00:18:07.119
But also Hunter previously, like it very, very anxious, and yeah, a lot in Shepherd, it's like we're not building for that stability anymore, or it doesn't seem to be.
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:13.039
Um, what do you think success looks like for a reactive dog owner?
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:22.720
Like if we took like maybe the mildest form of reactivity, but also like the more extreme styles as well, styles forms, sorry.
00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:25.680
Yeah, I think I mean sometimes it is a style.
00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:30.720
Yeah, Lucy certainly has a bit of a style going for her, real flex.
00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:44.880
We was in agility and uh my old my my owner, my teacher shouts when Lucy's finished singing the song of her people, you're next, and I was like, because she sounds like a turkey.
00:18:46.960 --> 00:19:11.519
She's like, I wanna go, she's just a nutter, um but yeah, I think success for me looks like being your dog's safe place, them having a safe place, them having autonomy and do on and consent, and then doing more of what they love doing than what they hate doing.
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:24.799
That so uh Victoria Stillwell did something about reactivity zones, and actually, instead of just working in that reactivity, there's so much to it, isn't there?
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:34.880
That I could you could go on and on and on without explaining reactivity and stretch zones and um settle disturbed before you react.
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:42.720
And and instead of keep working in those zones and working and pushing and stretching, and can they do a bit more?
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:44.000
Can they do a bit more?
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:53.359
Let them be where they want to be more than you can still work on that reactivity, that's fine.
00:19:54.160 --> 00:20:06.880
But I mean, my friend Joe, Joe Pay, she had her dog twist, and he didn't like this, didn't like that, didn't like cars, didn't like people, didn't like this.
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:08.720
So she bought a field.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:15.119
Nice, yeah, no visitors, he has a field, and he lived his best life.
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:19.279
And I thought, yeah, but you know, why not?
00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:20.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:29.759
And you you know, like what would you say to people that probably have this notion of well, isn't that just avoiding the problem?
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:32.960
Because we get a lot of that in that society as well, don't we?
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:34.000
I I completely agree.
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:50.880
Work to the dog's um capabilities, and and if you do more of what they love, then obviously your reactivity will lessen, but there will be maybe some people out there who have maybe thought or been told or or or heard multiple times, well, that's not fixing it.
00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:52.559
What would you say to that?
00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:58.240
Yeah, I knew it would be a controversial question.
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:10.960
Well, people call me kind Kate, okay, but I do have um, you know, if you're pushing my my buttons on certain things, but I'll I'll be I didn't mean to, I didn't mean to.
00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:12.720
No, no, not you, not you.
00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:13.839
No, no, no.
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:22.799
I so don't see things as problems, uh see behavior as communication.
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:24.880
So, what's the dog telling me?
00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:31.920
Good or good or bad behaviour, that's our concept preconception, not theirs.
00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:40.880
They simply behave, and if they are saying I'm really uncomfortable with this, I'm not gonna put them in that situation.
00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:43.839
Is it depending on what the situation is?
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:56.160
So, say if it was the vets, obviously they've got to go sometimes, so then I would work on you know consent and handling and husbandry care, and can you do this voluntarily and and help with that?
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.440
Um, but there's the we don't do fixing.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:05.839
I don't fix anything because that's that's that's your expectation as the human.
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:12.160
Um we listen to the dog, however, I am very much here for humans.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:47.839
So what I'll do is educate with kindness, or we s we say with grace, so with understanding, and um if I I'm never gonna judge someone or be hurtful to any person like I wouldn't to a dog or an animal or a horse or whatever, but um so I will educate them with that understanding, and I'll always go at their pace as well, yeah, of what they can take at that time without feeling that it's a judgment.
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:50.160
I don't know if that makes sense.
00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:51.759
So if I yeah, yeah.
00:22:52.319 --> 00:23:07.759
Uh you can't Julius K9 harnesses the rubbish, you can't have a retractable lead, just say wait once, stop saying wait, wait, what you know, they'll they'll feel attacked, they shut down, and then they go, Oh, I'm doing everything wrong.
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:09.200
Yeah, and then give up.
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:13.839
Yeah, so what I'm gonna say is, oh, just try my lead for a minute.
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:23.599
Uh, we're gonna use this instead, just why you know, we're trading, uh, and then I'll I'll talk to them about information about the harness and why it's rubbish and why these ones are better.
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:30.559
Oh, I've got a discount code as well for that, you know, and and helping them in a kind, understanding way.
00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:32.160
Yeah, I love it, I love it.
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:41.039
I think this um, like we mentioned earlier, like there's a lot of ego out there and a lot of pressure put on I think dog trainers as well.
00:23:41.119 --> 00:24:03.279
Like, I watched some of these videos and I'm like, are you putting your dog through that because you feel like you have to, or is it because we've had like this whole social media influence that if you aren't able to do that, that there's something detrimentally wrong with you as a trainer, and then I think that transfers out into people as well, where again this pressure just builds and they feel that they have to.
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:06.240
So, yeah, removing that pressure.
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:10.079
I mean, I did it with dog, like you know, I did that whole ego boosting thing.
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:21.519
I was like, Look, I'm gonna take this human reactive dog and I'm gonna work with her, and and we built up and we walked her down the town, and then um I stopped and I was like, Who am I doing this for?
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:24.319
You but it's not for Dot.
00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:42.880
She's not my coffee shop dog, she's not my go shopping dog, like she's she's not my dog, and and taking that pressure off and going, we're gonna enjoy quiet walks, we're gonna do the stuff that you love, which is like um her grc stuff and biting things, and you know, in a structured and you know what?
00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:46.079
She's been 10 times happier, as have I.
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:51.119
So that's a big lesson, I think, for a lot of people on this call today.
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:59.599
And we probably we've probably already mentioned it, but if you could leave every reactive dog owner with one message, what would it be?
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:05.200
Um sorry, I'm tight when I say one.
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:14.799
I should really say three, but just love your dog, you don't have to like them, but love them, yeah.
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.720
Yeah, just love your dog and and take just take the pressure off.
00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:26.880
Honestly, for all of you involved, because the more stressed you get as a human, the more stress your dog's gonna get.
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:30.480
Um, my trainer, because I go to a trainer, of course.
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:35.200
Yeah, because I can't, you know, do my own class with my dog, yeah.
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:41.599
Classes with my dog, and she she said, Um, stop acting weird in front of your dog.
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:43.119
And I was like, What do you mean?
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:49.519
She's like, when they're in a sit wait or stay and you're walking backwards, word, word, creeping backwards.
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:53.599
She said, then they'll get up because they think, What's wrong with her, you know?
00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:58.400
So take the pressure off, take a breath and love them.
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:03.839
I remember going out once um to a class with Sam, my angel dog.
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:17.039
He sat next to me, he's uh the stooge dog, the perfect, uh, brilliant dog, and he demand barked in my face for 10 minutes, and so I left crying.
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:22.240
And he's he'd never done it, he'd never barked, he never barked at me in demand bark.
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:26.480
And I went home and cried, and I was like, put him in the crate, put him over there.
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:28.319
I can't even look at him.
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:33.839
And I text my friend, I was like, I can't believe he's done this, and she was like, just cuddle him.
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:34.559
And I was like, What?
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:36.240
She's like, Why have you got a dog?
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:41.039
And I was like, Because I love him, and I've cuddled, yeah, just cuddle your dog, just love them.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.039
Love it, I love it, and it takes so much stress away, doesn't it?
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:47.599
It's like they're allowed to have feelings, yeah.
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:50.880
And he was clearly telling you something in that moment, yeah.
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:53.359
Um I love that, I love that.
00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:55.920
Kate, fantastic interview.
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:02.319
Do you want to tell people more about where they can find your stuff online in person?
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:11.279
Um, so our website is the faithfuldogtrainer.co.uk and we're the faithful dog trainer on Facebook and Instagram.
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:12.319
Oh, and TikTok.
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:14.000
I always forget about TikTok.
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:19.119
But some of my videos they went viral, but I never go on and check.
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:23.440
So I use it as an editor, upload my video and then close it.
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:25.599
And then someone's like, Hey, you've gone viral.
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:30.240
Good way to use social media.
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:35.200
Well, this is what I was gonna say to you about pressure and social media.
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:37.279
That's generally what I do.
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:44.799
So go on my social, use it as uh posting an update or editing a video, and then I cover off it.
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:56.400
Yeah, and honestly, um so um the faithful doctrine, I'm all about being faithful, kind, loving, accepting.
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:08.400
Um and I think if I start doom scrolling and being, you know, all of this seeping into my brain, um, it it just doesn't do me very well.
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:13.839
Um and I kind of stay in my lane, and I don't mean that in a rude way.
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:17.359
I'm just doing my thing in we call it Kate's world.
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:19.359
I'm a little bit fantasy.
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:23.440
There's rainbows, there's butterflies, everyone can be who they want to be.
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:29.839
I stay in my lane, um, and along the way, if I can help people, I will.
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.200
You know, I'm not saying this is all mine, you know.
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:39.279
I freely give information and education, but I don't worry about what anyone else is doing.
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:43.599
Unless they like it, and then I'm like, oh, I could use a bit of that, and that's brilliant.
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:44.960
I'll pass that message on.
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:47.920
And yeah, I love it, I love it.
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:49.680
Well, thank you very much, Kate.
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:51.519
It's been a pleasure talking with you.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:54.960
And for the listeners, I hope you've enjoyed um this conversation.
00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:56.480
Go and check out Kate's stuff.
00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:01.599
I'll make sure that I link it all below in the description for you, and we will look forward to seeing you next week.
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:03.119
Ciao for now, everybody.
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:03.519
Bye.
