Dr. Isaac Eliaz | Open Heart Medicine in a World of Stress

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You meditate like the inner heart is the center of
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the universe, because each of us from our heart point
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is the center of the universe. You are, I am
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anybody listening or watching, and yet we are all the
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center of universe. That's the interdependent and oneness. So when
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you want to feel the openness, you try not to
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feel it from here, but from your inner body. And
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then when you do it, you kind of watch what's
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happening in your body. And the world watch is very
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tweacky because people who come from mindfulness are going to
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have a very difficult, next to impossible journey of going
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to the place of effortless because meditation is not what
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you experience.
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Welcome to the Radical Responsibility Podcast. I'm doctor Fleet Mall
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and I'm excited the guide you on a journey of
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authentic transformation, and each episode I'll bring you insights from
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leading experts to explore trauma recovery, mindfulance practices, puzzle psychology,
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and innovative breakthroughs in health, wellness, and life up themation.
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This is a space for real conversations that inspire meaningful change,
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helping you find alignment with the person you are always
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meant to be. Let's get started. What if transformation isn't
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just about thinking differently, but feeling differently. Science shows us
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that true change happens when we align not just our minds,
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but also the neural networks in our hearts and guts.
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This heart mind connection is the key to deeper healing, resilience,
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and expanded awareness. That's why I created the Heart Mind
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all access, membership, and community, a space designed to help
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you rewire your nervous system, cultivate heart intelligence, and live
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with greater clarity and purpose. With over one thousand hours
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of transformational teachings specifically curated to meet your needs. You'll
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learn from world renowned meditation teachers, neuroscientists, and experts in neuroplasticity,
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all sharing powerful tools to help you shift your mindset
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and heartset, regulate your emotions, and unlock your full potential.
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You'll also gain unlimited access to every summit and course
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we've ever produced, a Treasure Trouble Wisdom worth over ten
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thousand dollars in growing plus live gatherings, and an inspiring
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global community to support your journey. If you're ready to
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step into a more heart centered, connected and conscious life,
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I invite you to join us. Clip the link to
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learn more and start your journey today. What ith healing
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your body started not with medicine, but with opening your heart.
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In this profound conversation, I'm joined by doctor Isaac Elias,
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a pioneer in integrated medicine whose journey bridges the ancient
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wisdom of Eastern traditions with cutting edge Western science. We
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explore how meditation, heartfulness, and practices like toneln aren't just
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spiritual tools, they're physiological pathways to healing. Doctor Elias shares
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the powerful story of how his study of Tibetan Buddhism
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and his path as a physician came together in what
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he calls open Heart Medicine. This episode invites you to
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shift from survival mode into a life of deeper presence, compassion,
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and resilience. Let's dive in Miami. Is doctor Flee Mall
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your co host for the session and I'm thrilled to
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be here today with friend and colleague doctor Isaac Elias.
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Welcome, Thank you, Thank you Fleet for having me a
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love of conversations over the years.
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So, doctor Elias, I want to get into the origins
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of your work a little bit. You've spent decades pioneering
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integrative medicine approaches. You're deeply trained as a Western physician
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and in many alternative or various healing capacities, including acupuncture
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and so forth, And you're a long time Tibetan Buddhist practitioner,
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and so I wonder if you could say something about
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how your journey began. Did you begin in a medical field,
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did you begin in your spiritual search with Tibetan Buddhism,
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did they come together? Just how did your path kind
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of begin that led to how your work is unfolding today.
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My beginning is a little bit unusual. It started at
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an early age out of my own like inner interest,
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not with the family necessarily. At age fourteen, and then
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at age fifteen, we traveled to South Korea. My father
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was an engineer, and I was introduced to tekwando, a
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martial art, and I had been to study a very
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philosophical alternative branch of tekwando, And I was introduced to
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yoga and meditation at a very early age. And so
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for about the age of fifteen sixteen, I was engaged
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in yoga every day and in meditation, and which I
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carried on. So when I went to medical school, I
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knew I'm going to do something alternative. Actually the knowledge
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wasn't there, you know, it was early eighties. But meditation
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and yoga and the inner so actic awareness was always
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part of my being. So I went in Israel. It's
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a six year medical school. I went through it while
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training in Chiatza, training in Chinese medicine and having a
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pretty regimented daily meditation practice, starting with more for yoburgular
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yogic Indian meditation, seeking meditation, and then when we came
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to the US, so I can deepen my Chinese medicine
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education get Master of Science in Chinese medicine. I met
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my rut Lama. He became very close. I was his
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doctor for many years, including being there. He left his
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body in Brazil many many years later, and then Vaguyana
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became really what I focused time wise and so aso
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for many years. For twenty years, I would go to
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the mountains for two three months a year, and for
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ten years I did every day retreat. And then in
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two thousand and eight, late two thousand and eight, I
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kind of left everything and my family was supportive and
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went on and attempted retreat which didn't end in three years,
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but spent many months by myself in the Trinity Alps
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and had a lot of time for reflection and out
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And this was a generation where teachings were really given,
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you know, you were there one on one, you know,
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in small groups, especially with the Charter Turco input chair.
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And out of this process came some esoteric, insightful you
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can say, transmission, like certain practices then that I translated,
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after many years of stepping in them into a very
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simple term open heart medicine. But it really encompasses at
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my basis, at my training from the gate God that
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what my teacher told me. My training is mainly in
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great perfection. That's really my full training no for Homo
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thirty five years. And within it, tongline became a tool
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of expression I developed in some in a way that
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I can say is unique. It's different than regular Tomlin
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and it's especially gear towards self healing, multi generational healing
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and healing of founders. So I know.
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Chugdutuku is well known for being a teacher of child
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practice and of course soul too. MALIONI has emphasized that
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and she was also a student of his, and she
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has her book Feeding Your demons, which is kind of
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an interesting psychological perspective on that. And also, if I'm
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not mistaken, Chagdotuko was also very involved in was he
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a practitioner of Tibetan medicine or did he support practice?
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He was very involved in the kind of healing aspect.
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Very interesting. He was a Tibetan doctor when he was young.
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He stuffed it. He didn't do it anymore, but he
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would show me some stuff from time to time. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
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we were very close. I mean, we can take the
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whole hour with stories of the connection with your teacher
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when he's alive, and the connection with your teacher they
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gets stronger when he leaves his body, and how they
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keep on guiding you and teaching you until they feel
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okay on the way, and then the opportunity to meet
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his next way incarnation. But better not to talk too
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much about it in public. And so yes, it was
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a very unique, but it was a great auction master great,
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it was amazing. It was really I feel as a
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Westerner it fless to me. You know, I had no
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idea what he was talking about, honestly, Fleet you know,
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it takes so many years, you know, and for me anyway,
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I will a slow learn in this sense, but I
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was persistent. I mean, you know, they want to give something.
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It is really hard to comprehend. And these days when
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where these teachings are read online and are popular, when
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you go to big retweet and you go for a
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weekend and for four days or five days, it's a
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different world. You know, there's a reason why. It's like,
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is there something our adjusted zoology is built to be
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able to see in a quicker way. But there was
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a certain way of a dish that is cooked very slowly,
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you know, but it's well cooked. You know, it's different, right,
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you know it? Yeah, So this was litally a very
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unique it's a very time of faith and devotion. And
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we didn't read any books, you know, I mean some
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of the true co Agail books were allowed. But it
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was just about reading our notes twenty five times between
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one year and the next retreat and really just living
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every world and the ones that really took it seriously,
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and then having is support and kind of reflecting on
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it and it it is think my whole family went
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through the process, my wife, my daughter who is an
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ex auction lineage olderly Elias Lamachuni and also it became
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part of our life. Our younger daughter is now a
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resident in neurology, so the idea of serving others and
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caring for others became part of the DNA of our
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whole family and each of us in our own path.
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So I'd like maybe propose a little map or conversation,
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and we don't have to stick to that, but I
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want to talk ask you something a little more about healing.
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How your initial study with Chug the talk and then
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your ongoing studying Tibetan Buddhism and you're training as a
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physician and a healer, how that intertwined in terms of
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your understanding of the healing process from both Eastern and
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Western perspectives. And then I want to shift and talk
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a bit about the art of meditation and really talk
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about kind of shamatavipasiona in a sense of stabilization practice, calummbiding, developing,
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you know, training the mind to where it has that
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capacity to rest, and then the process of a Poston
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insights that can lead deliberation. And then we'll circle back
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and talk about tom Linn practice and how you've integrated
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that into this your heart medicine approach. But to begin with,
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how did your understanding of the healing process both I
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suppose you could say both physical healing, emotional healing, the
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general the body's capacity to heal, of how that's facilitated
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by both these Eastern and Western approaches, and how that's
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kind of a ball for you your understanding of that.
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Yeah, that's a great question and a great myth challenging one.
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And the deep influence from Chinese medicine. I study Chinese
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medicine for many years, not only formally but also esoteric lineages.
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So I think meditation now has been much more assimilated
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in the West, is a very practical tool for the
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more beginner ones, more for relaxation, for redduction of stress,
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for being more present in this very high pace environment.
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And often when we meditate and even if we feel
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I mean, I'm not a great fan of the term mindfulness,
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but it is very popular and it serves the big
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role as the first grade meditation, and people can get relays,
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can feel open, but it is often from the skin out,
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and you can see many meditators have a lot of
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meditation capacity and the health is poor. Can see it
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in retreat, right, I don't know fleet. You may observe
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people going retweat and they really get sick. In retreat,
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they have what the Tibetan will call loom, and they
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can't sleep and they don't feel well and they get
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out sick. From my perspective, I want to break the
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bad news. Their retweet is basically imbalanced from beginners to advance. Okay,
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seper can say it's karma, it's this and that. No,
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when your retweet is done properly, your health is going
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to get better. If I had a certain nick injury
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that caused high blood pressure, when I will go on
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retweet within three weeks, I didn't with medication after seven
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eight weeks. There was no medication for one year until
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I went back. Why because I was able to kill
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the stress responses relax the sympathetic system in a deep level,
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Not because I focused on it, not at all. I
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didn't think about it. Because it was the byproduct of
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the meditation. So one of the first part in meditation
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is to connect your meditation practice to your somatic expression,
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to your somatic feeling. And that's the process where physiology,
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cellular biology, and basic knowledge is really known. The other
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part is to really differentiate between what we will call
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a aes sense and expression in Buddhism, between the dama
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kaya aspect and the samboga kaya aspect, which is inseparable,
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and the great perfection between our openness resting in its emptiness,
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and between the expression like the sun and its rays,
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which are really inseparable. And that's what shines. And we
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see this endless object, endless expressions, and if we grasp
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to them, we got some sarah right, And if we
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rest in our true nature, we got recognition of weak paw,
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we got realization, we got you know, nirvana in a
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more absolute term. But both come from the same place.
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It is often an error that people want to separate them.
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So within it the mind, the thinking process, the clarity process,
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the insight process very much comes from the third eye.
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Many practitioners, you know, they feel this. And here we
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are up to a very challenging road because we are
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trying to change our habit of analyzing, of stopping, of looking,
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of thinking. That's an ingrained, inherent, multi generational pattern behavior.
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And where does it come from. It comes from the
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basic resping from a Buddhist perspective, from a meditation perspective,
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from a physiological perspective. It is our survival response. It
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is automated fleet. It's come from the sympathetic system of
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the autonomic nervous system. We can't control it. It happens immediately.
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So we spend years trying to learn this place of
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being more open, to find the space between thoughts, and
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then there is a sense of clarity of bliss. A
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lot of unique experiences, good experiences, bad experiences, and there's
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a whole discussion about getting attached to these experiences and
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about modern meditation system that are based on a certain experience.
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And this all folding to the realm of shamata and
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the insight recognizing the impermanent quality for in the quality
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of the passion and the beauty of this system. Is
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it a simple system, There's a very defined road. You
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keep on going on this road and you get benefits
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from it. The Great Perfection system is a very different
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system because the entry point is recognition to nature. And
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if you take hardbred people that think they have it,
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maybe one will have it. But the disadvantage is that
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when you do shamata and you bring in the lodgeon
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and the training of the mind and the heart, you
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are working on opening your house. And that's why the
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very passional shamata tok glen path and say, the passionate shamata.
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Although again I come now, this is not for beginners.
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Everything I talk comes from my training, from great perfection.
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I just put it in simple words. So the more
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ordinary gradual path is like building a well tilted field
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singing show us that brought the tuningtic into this world
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would say in his needle practice, the passion and shamata
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is a well tilled field that you can then find
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your true nature. So in this sense it's a great path,
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and it's very practical for these times in the world.
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Or we are so busy, or we are so inflamed,
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where we are bombarded with stimulus, there is divisiveness, And
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in this sense it's a very useful thing. Now when
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we look at when we move from the clarity to
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our heart, that's a different story. The heart is built
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to flow, it never stops. Like one of the greatest
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Buddhist masters of the late twentieth century and early twenty
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first in the High Malayas, I was his doctor and
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studied with him, and he would say, he told my daughter,
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and I know the heart has no concept. This was
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his heart advice to hera Ange went for a three
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retweet what he says, the heart has no con So
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the heart has no concept. The heart naturally flows. And
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this is expressed not only from a spiritual point of view,
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but and from the point of view of really the
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center of our inner mind being in the heart and
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the heart mind connection and all the neuroscience connection. But
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it is also expressed in our physiology. Our physiology is
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built to do tonguelin. We are wired to do tonguelin.
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We're doing tongueline from a point of view of physiology,
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otherwise we won't be alive. And I'll explain it later.
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So then when we shift into our heart, there is
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a real shift, and the real trick is to do
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shamantas the passion our thinking process from the heart, to
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think from the heart, to feel from the heart, to
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talk from the heart. We move to the hout. It's
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kind of insane when we start feeling it and then
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our brain system exactly run by the heart. Then we're
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in a different highway. We're healing. Can happen in the
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last week in there, and I'm kind of giving you
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the map road from my perspective, the last week is
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that the heart can open, but with the target tissue
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except the change. The Buddha can be here, the drama
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teachings can be there, but will the sanger get the teachings?
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You know where the sanger in our body is ourselves
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and our main brand receptors. Are they open to receive
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or they are in a fearful survival traumatic mode because
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of trauma's multi generational trauma abuses in this life and toxins,
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heavy metals, microtoxins, you know, radiations post treatment. It's all
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one realm. There's no separation. So open out medicine allows
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a very unique way of unwinding this process.
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Let me have backtrack froment a little bit with you,
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and so you really laid out a beautiful landscape of
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the journey and we'll keep on packing that. So our
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approaches to meditation, to both teaching and practicing are very
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beautifully aligned. And I want to process a little bit
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from a Western neurophysiological approach to begin with. And you're
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representing you know, Shama to depostion and the Tibetan Buddhists.
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I mean those traditions are used across Buddhism, and in
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Tibetan Buddhism, they're used more within the Mahamudra than the Zochin.
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But even when you and you can be practicing shama
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the depast as a Sutriano practitioner or a Mahiana practitioner
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at the Vajiana level, they're Mahamudra and Zoltchin come together
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at some point because they're both involved the pointing out instruction.
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And you've had that glimpse of the nature of mine.
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So getting back to, you know, the basics of meditation,
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which are there's some commonality across traditions, I think unfortunately
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working with the body. As you mentioned earlier, people practice
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mindfulnces mostly from the outwards, right about being more present,
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about being more aware and so forth, and paying attention,
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which is all wonderful, but you know, we live in
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a very disembodied color. I have a friend who says
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that in Western culture, our body has been relegated to
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a role none other than just being a brain taxi,
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something to carry around this super trip on our shoulders.
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But one of the efficacies for me about really bringing
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the body into the practice, and we're talking about the
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physical body the gross physical sensate body. To begin with,
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we experience touch on the surface of the skin, but
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then very importantly going into the body with introceptive awareness
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the vast internal somatic landscape of the body. When we
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focus there, we know from current neuroscience it's as facilitating
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a ship from the busy default mode network to the
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task positive network, and our mind will naturally begin to
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quiet down. We don't have to struggle with thinking, we
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don't demonize thinking, we can just leave it alone. But
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the mind will naturally start to quiet down because we're
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sort of yoking our attention deep in the deeply felt
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experience of the body. Now, of course, as we go
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into the body, we're going for more what we think
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of as gross physical sensation, whatever it is, because even
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when you close your eyes, sensation is more like energy,
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but it goes subtler and subtler and subtler. And of
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course we experience emotion in the body. So the heart
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we can reference is the physical heart, the heart center,
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the heart mind in the Eastern traditions, but it's also
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the emotional body white we reference the heart in terms
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of our emotional body. So as we go deeper into
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the body, we're also getting in touch with the emotional body,
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and then we get into subtle body and subtle mind
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and into the very nature of mind and nature reality
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through the body. And the good thing about the body
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is that it's very anchoring, so it's facilitating that attention
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stabilization in a natural way. And we can move from
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having to do more effortful intentional practice to effortless practice
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because we're building the neural architecture for the practice. So
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that's the final point I want to ask you about.
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It seems to me that deep practice requires and both
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in terms of accessing the deep states of awareness and
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the possibilities of liberation, also the healing you're talking about
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that the healing requires that we build a kind of
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internal neurophysiological architecture and the subtler, the subtle body forms
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of that that becomes the vehicle for effortless awareness, effortless
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practice to be able to really relax into the deep
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states of flow, where even from a Western perspective, if
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we think of a little bit of quantum theory, the
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deeper we go into the source, right, even from a
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Western perspective, which is still materialistic, but even they get
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into a source that's pretty non material. The deeper we
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drop into that, there's a natural healing. It's sort of
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like the way you used to have to defragment the
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old computers.
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Right.
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If we plug ourselves back into source, all the tagled
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up wires and circuits and all this stuff in the
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body of the trauma, all the toxins, it all begins
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to heal itself out because we're plugging back into that
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deep source. So I wonder from that perspective, if you
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could talk about getting the importance of the body and
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building training our body mind as a vehicle for realization,
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as a vehicle for deep healing, as a vehicle for
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where we can finally relax into really realize in the
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nature of mind because we're not clinging, we're not grasping,
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we're not fabricating. Requires profound relaxation, and that means we
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need to be able to practice in Annapolis way, and
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it seems that we have to build a structure for that.
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So I'm wondering if that's resonating for you and what
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your take on that would be.
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Wow, that's truly an amazing description, just for really for people.
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It's worth while listening to it again because there is
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so much that you picked there, and I'm kind of thinking,
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where do I start looking at my journey? My own
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journey is different than how I teach, you know, So
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first of all, you've got to be aware of your body.
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So for me, I'm a tiktall guy. I especially in
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pult diagnosis. I know, I learned Chiazzo, I learned Clinger secret.
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I put my hands on people, you know, and we're
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saying gooddhism by seeing, hearing, touching, or remembering me my
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benefit all beings. So yah, that's fundamental. So the innerspection
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we kind of know. Often you can see in the
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little bit traditional the passion I did, people kind of
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look at the inner sensation that's coming from the outside
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to the inside, and he often create this artificial boundary
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becomes between the inside and outside. One of the first
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things that happens when you become a more of a
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bodified great perfection a practitioner is that the sense of
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the body and the outside folds the way. There is
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no more sense of boundary. So from this sense and
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switching when he told go impathy, he told him you
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meditate like the inner heart is the center of the
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universe because each of us from our heart point is
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the center of the universe. You are, I am anybody
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listening or watchie, and yet we are all the center
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of universe. That's the interdependent and oneness. So when you
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want to feel the openness, you try not to feel
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it from here but from your inner body, and then
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when you do it, you kind of watch what's happening
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in your body. And the world watch is very tricky
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because people who come from mindfulness are going to have
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a very difficult, next to impossible journey of going to
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the place of effortlessness. Because meditation is not what you experience.
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It's really important, and I hear people think feel a
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sense of please feel the sense of that. No, meditation
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is our relationship with what we experience. That's the level
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of meditation. Is it effortful? Are we aunted? Doting? Are
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we watching? Oh? This is impairment? Is it? Or are
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we transforming? Are we accepting that's easy, but that's profound?
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And are we finding freedom within the experience? That's the
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secret to godhood. So within this we have to understand this,
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and once we understand it, we have to understand that,
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at least to my view, is every selling our body
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fleet is a universe, is a person is an entity.
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It has a boundary as a membry. It is affected
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by outside input, you know, just like we react toward
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count our five senses right, and we react our feeling
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the motion psychology, body sensation right or the classical right
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elements that are practice. Cell does the same. Something comes
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from the outside that he feels safe with. The cell
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will relax, It will have normal physiology, normal cellar biology.
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Glucose will be metabolised in an efficient way. There will
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be no stress response into a cellularly and something called
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AHTM to one hif hypoxia inducing factor, the sense that
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we are choking, Oh my god, I can't breathe. Right,
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we can be the greatest meditators. If we hold our
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breaths at a certain point, it will make us tight.
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It's totally downregulated and we're in a place of safety.
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If we get different messages from the outside, you to
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try Rama's body physiology. Messages are psychological. It will affect
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our membrane receptors. A lot of my work all the
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way to sepsis that my inner age grants and then
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it will affect our mitochondrial functions. But our DNA, our epigenetics,
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our inner feelings within the cell will also produce a
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cellar sect and that's how the inner and out of
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ances a being is reflected in each of our fifty
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trillion cells. So the healing is can we bring the
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message from the meditation from our heart through our blood
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into our cells. And if you have a trauma in
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a certain part of the body, or this body holds
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an emotional, psychological, immediate, multi generational trauma or certain toxin,
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this area doesn't want to open up, right. You know
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this so well, so what do we do it?
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Is?
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How do we work it? Do work on it? Direct?
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We focus on area that I'm more letting go and
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slowly to well affected. These are all practical regiment but
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the first step is to understand that what starts this
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on a cellular level is the reactivity of our survival response.
476
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:22.000
That from a meditation point of view, the basic grasping
477
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:26.599
and what is grasping. Grasping is not letting go of
478
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:29.640
something you supposed to be let go of. It's really
479
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:33.319
not letting something that is supposed to die. It's holding
480
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:37.480
to something and that's what survival is. So grasping is
481
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:42.279
a mechanism of survival. The root of grasping is that
482
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:46.000
we don't recognize our true nature and we identify with
483
00:28:46.039 --> 00:28:48.839
what we see outwardly, right, we hear about I'm sure
484
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:51.400
a lot of the guests talk about it, and inwardly
485
00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:55.079
this happens all the way to the cellular level.
486
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:57.440
Just to make a point here, I think, because I
487
00:28:57.480 --> 00:29:00.720
think this is so important. Practitioners can and you know,
488
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.960
really work with various meditation techniques and especially from the
489
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:07.079
more ourward mindfulance approach, but really with a lot of
490
00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:09.480
type things. But if they're not practicing in an embodied
491
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:13.400
way and don't have this understanding that you're expressing right now,
492
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:17.960
it's like building this house of mindfuluence awareness on top
493
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:22.359
of a foundation that's still completely wrapped up in survival.
494
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:25.440
And even at the cellular level of the mitochondria, the
495
00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:30.079
organelles within each cell there is basically we're biologically set
496
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:32.559
up for survival, or we wouldn't be here as a species. Right,
497
00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:35.759
So at that basic level, the notion is one of
498
00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:40.039
constant danger, so surviving, not being consumed, needing to consume
499
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:43.400
to survive, so eating, and then wanting to procreate to
500
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:46.400
extend ourselves, you know, into the future. Right, So that's
501
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:49.519
happening at the cellar level, way below our level of awareness.
502
00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:52.640
Then we have the nervous system that's also you know,
503
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:55.720
got all this survival programming into it that we can
504
00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:57.640
be aware of and begin to self regulate.
505
00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:58.559
But if we.
506
00:29:58.519 --> 00:30:02.480
Don't drop into deep into the body to bring the
507
00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:07.319
flow states or whatever you want, the heart openness, the coherence,
508
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:11.240
the flow states deep in at the cellular level, then
509
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:14.920
it's like we're building this mindfulness awareness house on top
510
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:18.960
of fear based structure and will never really be able
511
00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:22.000
to let go into the deeper stage. There's always going
512
00:30:22.039 --> 00:30:26.920
to be this grasping, clinging, fabrication, aversion and so forth.
513
00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:31.160
Yeah, it's so so true, and yeah, this whole relationship
514
00:30:31.240 --> 00:30:34.079
is happening. So the idea is to connect into a
515
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:36.640
cellularly all the way to the ceiling for me, you know,
516
00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:39.160
and for you in the same way. And I will
517
00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:41.480
see time. I spend a lot of time half of
518
00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:43.799
the year this year, at least in Hawaiian I see
519
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:46.000
it and watch the sunset. It's the big ground where
520
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:49.519
I see it, and you get this amazing sensation and
521
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:52.359
you know, and it's you're just twisting, and you know
522
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:54.599
you I just say, wow, why did it have to
523
00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:59.000
take fifty years? You know, you know there is an
524
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:02.759
ongoing magical and winding, but it all starts with shifting
525
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:07.319
from reactivity that is our survival, to a different state.
526
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:12.200
And the state this is shifting from ordinary physiology to
527
00:31:12.279 --> 00:31:15.559
allowing the heart, our emperor, to lead the way. And
528
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:18.440
we talk about a lot about loving kindness, and we
529
00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:21.640
talk about a lot about compassion, But the secret of
530
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:25.759
the heart is not loving kindness and compassion that's the outcome.
531
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:34.200
The secret of the heart is non discriminative, boundless, innate acceptance.
532
00:31:35.240 --> 00:31:39.119
Every cell wants to take clean blood and pushes out
533
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:42.759
what it doesn't want and what the cell defines the toxins.
534
00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:46.240
Sometimes it's only electrolyte balance. And we say every cell
535
00:31:46.599 --> 00:31:50.079
fleet and for the audience, up to one million reactions
536
00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:54.839
a second in every cell. Can you imagine fifty trillion cells,
537
00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:58.000
all of them doing it together, talking about a whirlpool.
538
00:31:58.279 --> 00:32:02.480
The heart is different. The accepts blood from everywhere. It
539
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:07.400
doesn't say no, It moves some reactivity to responsiveness. It
540
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:12.240
accepts instead of fighting. It connects with the bigger heart,
541
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:16.039
with the universal out through the breath. That's what happens.
542
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:20.359
So in this sense, the acceptance, the taking in of suffering,
543
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:22.079
there's a tongue lin process.
544
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:24.200
I want you to go further with the ton linen
545
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:26.200
just a moment, but if you could connect for us,
546
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:30.920
and you're understanding of both Western traditions, Chinese medicine and
547
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:35.039
your Tibetan practice traditions. So we have the physical heart
548
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:37.119
and you're as you're saying, the heart accepts all the
549
00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:39.799
blood and it will take in. It doesn't discriminate. Right,
550
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:43.359
that's at a physical level. We now know that there
551
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:46.039
are neural networks in the heart, and so the idea
552
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:48.440
of the heart mind is not merely a spiritual idea.
553
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:51.680
And then, of course, in Eastern traditions, when we talk
554
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:55.519
about bodies, speech and mind is here. Brain is body,
555
00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:57.519
the heart is here. So the idea of the heart
556
00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:01.680
mind Chita and sanskirt or shin and Japanese is here.
557
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:06.279
So what's the connection between the physical heart, our understanding
558
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:09.359
that heart does have neural networks and then the more
559
00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:13.200
spiritual or deeper notion of heart in the Eastern traditions,
560
00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:15.440
how does all that connect up? And then maybe from
561
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:17.559
there you could go onto talking about your approach to
562
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:20.200
inner Tomland and your heart medicine approach.
563
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:25.880
Yeah. Right, So basically, we are wired up here to
564
00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:29.359
have a nervous system that can send signals and protect us.
565
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:34.599
We are wired here to accept everything and give selflessly.
566
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:38.920
We are wired physiologically. I want people to understand this.
567
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:42.599
You can be the biggest jerk and a criminal and
568
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:47.000
the killer, okay, But physiologically is the moment we stop
569
00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:52.799
losing this basic ability sixty seconds, ninety seconds, one hundred
570
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:56.680
and twenty seconds we leave this world, okay, Which means
571
00:33:56.920 --> 00:34:01.279
that we are built to do the transformerive process. It's
572
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:04.480
built in us. That's why, as we all know, people
573
00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:07.839
want to practice charm at passion are definitely great perfection.
574
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.639
It's the years of process. You learn it in the morning,
575
00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:12.960
you know it in the afternoon. You can show it
576
00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:16.079
to somebody else the next day. Why we are wired
577
00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:18.880
to do this physiology. People will live to realize this
578
00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:20.960
is like a wow moment. When this came to me
579
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:23.639
as an insight, I would likely sitting right at this
580
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:26.920
place about five six years ago, and then you know
581
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:30.440
it was a certain medicine buddher vision. They then gave
582
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:33.599
me this knowledge about inner and secret tonguling, which are
583
00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:37.079
completely different, and usually I teach them only in a retreat.
584
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:39.000
I don't talk about them, but I will give some
585
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:41.519
hints about it, and only in advanced retreat, not in
586
00:34:41.559 --> 00:34:44.360
their basic one. So going back to the heart and
587
00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:47.599
to your question, the heart connect with the universe. We
588
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:51.400
let go of our drama carbon dioxide, and the universe,
589
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:56.440
which is endless compassion, inseparable from basic space, accepts it.
590
00:34:56.920 --> 00:35:01.679
Now when we really pollute our universe, that's a problem, right,
591
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:03.960
there are too many cloud we don't see the sun.
592
00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:08.480
And then the lung serves to make this transformative, magical
593
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:11.159
exchange in the same time we let go of carbon
594
00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:14.880
dioxide while we take oxygeny. And what does the heart do.
595
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:19.719
The heart gives with our discrimination. So the non discrimination
596
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:23.400
given of the heart, the auta is a rigid artery
597
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:26.000
goes everywhere, not saying I'm going to give only to
598
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:29.440
the liver, only to the lung, only to the brain.
599
00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:33.079
But once it goes to the body, we have contraction
600
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:37.559
and relaxation of ourterials capillaries. Then there is a give
601
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:41.119
and take, the grasping and letting go between organs. That's
602
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:46.159
a maintenance physiology. That's a non spiritual maintenance physiology in
603
00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:50.639
the body that allows us to go through evolutionary transformation
604
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:54.719
which we are built. And only once the heart gives
605
00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:59.480
blood everywhere, it relaxes and the coronary artery gets nourished.
606
00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:01.679
So the heart is the only organ in the body
607
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:07.320
that navishes itself once it finishes its work absolute selflessness.
608
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:12.280
But the first place that the heart narvishis anatomically is
609
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:15.800
it navishes itself. And that's the importance of self love
610
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:18.800
compared to loving others. And we see it in traditional
611
00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:22.000
tongue lene. When you start training, you train in working
612
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:26.440
on injured aspects of yourself. Right, that's exactly what we do.
613
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:30.280
The trick is that in Tonguelin we take the suffering
614
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:34.639
from outside and we send it outside. So the first
615
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:39.559
theme for regular tongueling, what I call outer Tonguelin, is
616
00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:42.280
that when we do it, you want to connect with
617
00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:46.519
this inner secret hout, which is traditionally at the level
618
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:49.480
of the spine. In front of the spine, it's deeper,
619
00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:52.840
it's more in the back. And certain visualization in Vadoyana
620
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:56.920
will have three visualizations like you know, white, red, blue,
621
00:36:57.159 --> 00:36:59.400
and then it will leave this secret out with its
622
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:03.519
own rainbow the organization. So when we connect from there,
623
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:05.920
then now the tongue line is going through all of
624
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:09.480
our cells and it's creating the healing on a deeper
625
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:12.039
level when we really think about it, and it's a
626
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:16.159
hint for the inner tongue line. Every person, every suffering
627
00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:19.440
that we can bring in our mind that is affected
628
00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:23.480
as is stored in our cells, is stored in our body.
629
00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:27.400
It has already affected us. There's no air around it.
630
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:32.199
So the inner tongue lin creates a tonguelin process inwardly.
631
00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:36.320
Now that's a very powerful process because you're opening all
632
00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:41.440
your drawers and all the stuff, all the messy stuff
633
00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:44.559
just gets thrown out. That's why usually I like to
634
00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:46.760
do it after people have been with me, even for
635
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:49.880
four or five days on retreat, they are ready for it.
636
00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:53.639
And it's combined with exercise, with breathing, with yoga, with chigon,
637
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:58.199
with cleansing, diet, with hands on healing, you know, in
638
00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:03.079
ideally personal so I can monitor the process. And then
639
00:38:03.159 --> 00:38:06.599
the secret absolute tongue glean is when the altine email
640
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:09.320
are tweeted is one so it's a very different scale
641
00:38:09.320 --> 00:38:11.079
to Glean no comparison.
642
00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:14.000
What I hear you saying is that in the way
643
00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:18.119
that the blood, you know, we receive the carbon dioxide,
644
00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:20.960
you know, the exchange happens at the oldie and a lung.
645
00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:24.320
So where they were taking, we're cleansing the blood recharging
646
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:27.679
it with oxygen. Right, So that this process of sort
647
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:31.079
of cleaning and accepting everything, accepting all the toxins and
648
00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:34.639
then refreshing, cleaning the blood with oxygen, with the purity.
649
00:38:35.239 --> 00:38:39.400
This is not just the good analogy for Tonglind, but
650
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:42.280
it is on a continuum with what's happening at a
651
00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:44.800
subtle level. I mean, another analogy that I think is
652
00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:47.119
more of a pure analogy that I've always had with
653
00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:50.360
ton Lend is one can think of what realize beings
654
00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:53.960
are really doing. The resistance of a Buddha, a Buddha realm,
655
00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:57.480
a Buddha field is like this cosmic air conditioners, continually
656
00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:01.920
taking taking in all the toxins, take and then extending
657
00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:04.559
back out to the universe goodness and purity and basic
658
00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:07.000
goodness and so forth. So, but what you're saying is
659
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:10.119
the physical heart process of cleaning the blood and purifying
660
00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:12.519
the blood and repressing the blood with pure oxygen. It's
661
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:15.000
not merely an analogy, but it actually is on a
662
00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:19.840
continuum with the actual spiritual and healing process of Tanlin.
663
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:20.639
Is that accurate?
664
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:25.519
Oblieving the universal airth condition or purify is totally true.
665
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:29.360
You know, we're saying Buddhism in the very esoteric teachings
666
00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:33.800
that suffering arises as an object of compassion for the Buddhas.
667
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:38.320
So yeah, this is a beautiful thing, absolutely, And visualizing
668
00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:43.000
somebody outside creates a separation. It's outside. So even if
669
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:45.880
you do it and you're connecting soumatically to the house
670
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:48.159
and this is something I will do in the short
671
00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:54.239
introduction to experience, suddenly you feel the physiology happening. But
672
00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:57.239
you have to realize a little bit easier to do
673
00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:00.480
it to somebody outside than to think it in insight,
674
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:03.119
to really bring it into your body, then you kind
675
00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:06.440
of own it. Right, it's happening. But yes, this is
676
00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:09.400
our gift. Connecting with our heart is our gifts. So
677
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:14.400
really the basic shift is from mindfulness to heartfulness. Now
678
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:18.480
that's not just words, it's from effort and stopping and
679
00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:23.079
trying to just resting in the flow, because the ultimate
680
00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:27.679
nature is that it's ever flowing. It's beginningless and it's endless.
681
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:30.639
The moment you hold to it, you turn water into
682
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:34.760
ice and the moment the heart stops flowing, that's what happens.
683
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:39.199
And the physiological aspect of it is bringing oxygen to
684
00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:42.039
the cell. Allow us to take a deep breath and
685
00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:45.360
just to relax. We're okay, no need for effort, no
686
00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:48.079
need for anything to happen. So even when we talk
687
00:40:48.159 --> 00:40:50.800
like this, we can usually in meditation we can feel
688
00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:54.960
it outside, but for people listening, just feel it in
689
00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:57.239
your body. And then when we feel it in the body,
690
00:40:57.239 --> 00:40:59.239
you can first feel it like you mentioned in a
691
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:03.400
growth way, and then feel it very subtly. It's remarkable.
692
00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:07.760
It's just amazing. You literally get endless sensations and then
693
00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:11.320
see how you react to this sensation. You try to
694
00:41:11.360 --> 00:41:14.239
analyze them, you try to push them. Can you just
695
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:18.480
accept them? Or the total resting happens when they're That's
696
00:41:18.519 --> 00:41:21.920
why the ultimate tongue glen is resting in your true nature.
697
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:26.280
Because when we rest authentically true nature and we can
698
00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:28.440
see it, we can be tense, we can be worried,
699
00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:32.639
and then when we rest in this place. Authentic expression
700
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:36.159
of this meditation on the body realm on the Newma
701
00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:40.159
Nakaya Welm on the tuk joelm is loving kindness and compassion.
702
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:44.639
That's the expression of the state. It's amazing. You don't
703
00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:47.760
have to try it, you don't have to fake it.
704
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:49.679
It's what happens.
705
00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:54.039
Continuing with your approach to the timeline and healing. I
706
00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:57.440
know you use the term I believe scarves of survival
707
00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:00.280
or survival scars, and you're talking to me or we
708
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:04.039
have the deep conditioning of biological survival, conditioning all the
709
00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:06.079
way at the cellar level as well as in our
710
00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:09.119
autonomic nervous system, and then there's all the traumas of
711
00:42:09.159 --> 00:42:12.280
life and so forth. So in this healing process that
712
00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:15.960
you're describing with tone lane practice, how is that process
713
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:18.599
then healing these scars of survival.
714
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:22.599
So the scald of surava can be physical scouts injected
715
00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:25.320
with like procaine in the body and brain forgets the
716
00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:28.280
scout and the skin physically goes the way. And these
717
00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:34.199
are multi generational scouts. So by accepting them, So when
718
00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:38.719
we accept, accepting is required for forgiveness. When we accept,
719
00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:41.079
we can let go. We can forget. So when we
720
00:42:41.239 --> 00:42:44.400
accept when we're doing the tongue lean and there's something
721
00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:46.159
that we are doing it for others. If you do
722
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:48.119
it for your own healing, then you are backing your
723
00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:52.480
own egocentric point where you realize this. Then the reactivities
724
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:57.760
that causes the inflammatory response that brings survival on a
725
00:42:57.800 --> 00:43:02.159
mind level, emotional level, physical father way. So tongulin makes
726
00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:05.320
it very effective. But the more we are trained, we
727
00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:09.519
are trained to do it in an effortless way, ideally
728
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:12.679
eventually in a non dual way, in a oneleess way,
729
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:16.239
the more effectivity is the quicker it happened. So it's
730
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:19.840
a combination of this and within it, then we use
731
00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:25.280
different modifications. We work with the specific emotions, specific cards
732
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:27.519
in the body, we change based on the seasons of
733
00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:31.360
the years. And also having a group set up really
734
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:34.719
empowers the process. So yes, but this is really and
735
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:38.480
eventually you will see this cause that's going away. And
736
00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:41.880
I mean you end a good period of retreat even
737
00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:44.480
a short with it, and you look different, you feel different,
738
00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:50.880
you radiate differently. That's this amazing magical healing of meditation
739
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:54.519
that is often bypassed. You know, it's insane it's so
740
00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:55.519
often bypassed.
741
00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:58.760
Thank you so much, doctor Isaaca Laves. How do we
742
00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:00.920
find out? How does the audience find out more about
743
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:02.719
your work and your retreats and so on.
744
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:06.440
And so they can go to dear Elias dot com. Yeah,
745
00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:09.800
Eli is it dot com. I'm now going to offer
746
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:13.880
an ongoing free daily recorded meditation that will go in
747
00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:17.079
a loop twice a day, so different people in different
748
00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:19.559
parts of the world can log in, so people can
749
00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:21.920
go to kind of get a sense and join and
750
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:25.280
create a group energy. There's always healing in my meditation,
751
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:28.400
so it's very good. And then I'd offer often some
752
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:32.920
one day free doom medication and healing retreats, and then
753
00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:36.239
I do a deep in person retreat in Hawaii. The
754
00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:38.800
next one is in September twenty twenty five on the
755
00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:42.360
Big Island in the firm Word Orchid in Monalani, And
756
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:46.159
that's a very profound experience. That's the place. The picture
757
00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:48.800
behind you is where we meditate every evening and every morning.
758
00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:52.440
That's the lava rock back there behind your right in
759
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:55.880
the ocean. Yeah, in the ocean beautiful. Yeah, thank you
760
00:44:55.960 --> 00:44:58.679
so much, doctor. Thank you for very flies, Thank.
761
00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:00.519
You very all. Mud look I really really rateless.
762
00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:03.760
Keep your agreed to work. Thank you for joining me
763
00:45:03.800 --> 00:45:07.960
on the Radical Responsibility Podcast. Remember, real change happens when
764
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:10.920
we commit to our growth, face our challenges with compassion,
765
00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:14.519
and stay open to transformation. If you found this episode helpful,
766
00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:17.199
I encourage you to subscribe and help us spread the
767
00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:21.199
message of healing and personal empowerment. Stay grounded, stay present,
768
00:45:21.400 --> 00:45:23.199
and stay true to you. Take care