WEBVTT
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You had more impact than you think you do.
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Welcome to Queering Education, where we challenge what school is and build what it should be.
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I'm Brian Stanton.
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This is a Teaching While Queer podcast about inclusive teaching, queer pedagogy, and showing up authentically in every classroom.
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Alright, let's do the work.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Queering Education, a Teaching While Queer podcast.
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I'm your host, Brian Stanton.
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My pronouns are they them.
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Today I have the pleasure of chatting with someone virtually that I've had the joy of meeting in real physical life, Sophia Leary, an MPA student at NYU's Wagner.
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Hi, how are you doing?
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I'm doing great.
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How are you?
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I am so great.
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I'm glad that we get to have this time together and uh and talk outside of the formal settings.
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Um can you tell everybody who's listening a little bit more about yourself?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Um, so like you said, I'm Jean Fia.
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I use Shilei pronouns um and I identify as queer.
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Um I'm originally from the state of Indiana, um, and I moved here about a year ago um to pursue a graduate degree um in a field that I'm very passionate about, which is advocacy for queer youth, um, but also at an intersection of educational policy.
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Um and so where I grew up, there was basically zero discussion of queer identities at all.
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Um it was a conservative state, you know, um we have our own version of Florida's Don't Say Gay Bill, um House Bill 1608, which included a forced outing procedure.
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So growing up, I struggled a lot with mental health issues and I didn't feel safe at school.
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So eventually, when I did go to college, I realized that I want to make sure that no student has to feel the way I felt.
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And I was like, how do I make sure that that happens?
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And that's how I found this kind of more niche advocacy route, kind of intertwined with education.
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Um, I started an organization called Students for Equity in Public Affairs.
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Uh, we did a lot of work to make sure all types of marginalized communities were included at our school.
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Um, and then I also began working as a music teacher with K1 back home, which was a lovely experience.
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And now I'm here at NYU.
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Um I've also done some work with PFLAG NYC to further my advocacy journey as well.
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Yeah, and that's actually where we met was through PFLAG.
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What was your work when you were working with PFLAG?
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So I worked under Shelby and the Safe Schools program.
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Um so I facilitated a lot of workshops in all five boroughs of the city, um teaching how to be a better ally.
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Um I also just created a workshop.
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Um, I had the final presentation yesterday, and it's a cultural humility um workshop, and it kind of talks about how we can include people from different cultural backgrounds, um, different religious backgrounds, and also be an ally.
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And it's aimed specifically at educators.
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I love that.
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I'm a huge proponent of culturally responsive teaching and culturally responsive pedagogy.
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And sometimes the the representation ends up involving tokenism because we are moving very fast and teachers have very limited time.
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So I think that a workshop like the one you're talking about, about cultural humility, uh, is is a wonderful asset.
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Um and I hope to see it uh expand beyond even just this local owl that is New York City.
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Uh so hopefully your work gets out there even further.
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You will be presenting at the upcoming Querying Education Conference too.
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I will, yes.
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And thank you for that opportunity as well.
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Um, I'm actually gonna be presenting some research that is gonna be published in 2027, early 2027, hopefully.
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Um but it's basically it started as my undergraduate honors thesis.
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Um, but I've worked on it a lot with my mentor, who is a professor now at University of Florida.
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Um he's also a part of the community.
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Um and we basically did a bunch of qualitative interviews with people in my undergraduate institution that went to high school in Indiana and we asked them about their experiences.
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We said, okay, did you feel represented by any community spaces?
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Like, how is your mental health?
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How did teachers respond to you?
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Um, how did your peers respond to you?
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And it was just such an insightful experience that after I wrote up my undergrad thesis, we were like, wait, this could really, really be insightful for educators and policymakers in the future.
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So we kind of revamped it a little bit.
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Um, we categorized the interviews and we have some pretty insightful findings, I would say.
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So I'm very excited to talk about that.
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Yeah, I'm excited to uh to watch it.
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I I tell everybody that um our conference is virtual and everything is recorded.
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So even though on the day of I'm gonna be running around from place to place in the virtual realm trying to make sure everybody's taken care of.
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I go back and I watch all the sessions because I'm so intrigued by the things that people are talking about and the research that's coming out of it.
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I firmly believe we need more data.
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Um so uh so I love that these opportunities exist and that they are oftentimes so personal to the person presenting.
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Uh and I think that is true for you.
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I know it's true for me when I'm presenting, because I present about querying theater education, and that is quite literally my bread and butter.
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It's what I've loved since I was a kid, theater.
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So um if you have an opportunity for those who are listening, make sure you register for the conference.
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And now we're done with the plugs.
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Um what I mean, you explained a little bit about your experience in Indiana and um and how that's drawn you to this place where you want to make sure that students don't have the same experiences that you have.
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What are some things that you think people should be doing to kind of help mitigate that?
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That's a really good question.
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Um I think, you know, it it's hard because there are certain things that, you know, educators might want to do, like, I don't know, put up a pride flag or um put out like inclusive books, which is a great start.
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But oftentimes, um like what I experienced as well, and what people in the interviews were telling me is that that's kind of where it stopped.
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So it kind of became almost like a performative allyship sort of thing with these educators, um, because they weren't stepping in when correct pronouns were were being used, or like they weren't actually defending their queer students that were getting picked on or were getting bullied.
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So I think, you know, we say at PFLAG that like allyship starts with a choice, right?
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But like part of that choice is you have to think through um everything that allyship means.
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So it's not just you're not doing it to make yourself feel better.
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You're doing it because you want your students to genuinely have a safe space and you want to be a safe person for your students.
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So that's just something I would say to keep in mind is like, you know, this isn't necessarily about you.
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Um as basic as it might sound, I think like the best way to begin to try and support a marginalized group of people, like whether it be queer people or any other any other group, you have to ask them, right?
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You might have these like preconceived notions of, oh, I'm gonna do this, this, and this to make their lives better.
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But what if that's not what they need, right?
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So I think just like beginning to have an open dialogue and kind of de-centering yourself from the support is a great place to start.
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I love that.
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I think that you're absolutely correct.
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I like to think of allyship as an action, it's a verb.
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Um, and so it's not something that we need to just put up our sticker and then walk away from.
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And that allyship is intersectional, right?
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Um, because being an ally doesn't mean that you're just an ally for the LGBTQ community.
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You need to be an ally for any marginalized community.
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Um, and it takes action every single day.
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Um and I think that's a smart, I mean, the way that you framed uh PFLAG's um understanding of it, that it starts with a choice, that's a smart thing to assess because sometimes those choices are going to put you in uncomfortable situations, and sometimes those choices might put you in unsafe situations.
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And you have to be willing to assess that for yourself.
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And I would honestly assess that for yourself before you decide to give yourself a label that is ally.
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Because if you're not willing to stand up when the time is needed, um then it's it's a sticker, it's a gold star, it's not a it's not a an actual um actionable allyship.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah, exactly.
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So what are you hoping?
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Um you're working on your master's.
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What are you hoping that um you will be able to do dream world when you're done with your master's program?
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That's a good question.
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Um when I was younger, I would have without hesitation told you that I went to work for the ACLU, the American Civil Liberties Union.
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Um I was convinced for a very long time that I would go to law school, kind of follow that legal path.
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Um because my undergrad degree is in law and public policy as well.
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Um, and while I'm still interested in that, I think now I've kind of realized the power that nonprofits can have.
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So I think absolute dream job um would definitely be something similar to what PFLAG in RIC does.
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Um, or maybe more on the policy side.
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So like maybe in the DOE.
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Um either way, I want to be very focused in L3TG Plus advocacy and how it is applied in schools and in different learning environments.
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Um so whether like I'm the one writing that curriculum, or if I'm the one like maybe diffusing angry parents, I'd be happy to do that too, or creating workshops such as this cultural humility workshop.
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Um I just I'm the type of person where I need to feel like I am making a tangible difference for my community.
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So yeah, something in that realm would be ideal.
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Fingers crossed.
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I feel that.
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The the I need to feel like I'm making a difference.
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Uh that is a constant conversation I have with my therapist.
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Um I'm not doing enough.
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You're doing too much.
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I'm not doing enough.
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Um burnout and everything.
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Exactly that.
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And I get into these, it's a cycle of burnout, I feel like, sometimes.
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Um and it's funny uh because Teaching While Queer has become a nonprofit.
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Um, and it started as a podcast, and my favorite part of the all of it is that's having these conversations.
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And I was just talking to my husband, I was like, one day the organization is gonna be stable and in a position where we can actually have someone come on as an executive director, and I could be a podcast host and founder and not and not uh do all of the behind the scenes work, not all of it, but the majority of the behind-the-scenes work that happens with the nonprofit.
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And it's not that I don't love the work that we're doing, it's just there's so much work, and there's so much work that needs to be done, it can make your checklist feel like it's constant.
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Right.
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I can only imagine, but I admire you for all of that.
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It's very important.
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So thanks.
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I appreciate that.
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Um I am curious about any resources that you have that people can use to to take those steps in creating a more inclusive space for their for their students.
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Yeah, um, I have a few.
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So first I do have to plug PFLAG NYC again.
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Um, they have a great website with resources for teachers, for parents.
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Um, I actually have a parent, so I was raised by a single mom from Hungary, and we have had a very rocky relationship since I came out.
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Um but I've sent her some of PFLY's resources and been like, hey, please read this.
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Um and it's actually helped her a lot in her kind of like journey towards understanding and accepting me.
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Um so I think that is very cool.
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Um something that I'm currently reading, it is a book um by a professor at Rutgers.
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It's called Queering Public Policy: a Disruptive Yet Inclusive Framework for Policy Making.
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And it's by Diego Galico.
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Um, and it kind of talks about how like what queering it's public administration, but he also talks about education as well, like what that means, and how you said earlier, like with allyship, it's a verb, right?
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Um, and we have to stop being afraid of disruption if we want meaningful change.
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Um it is a more like academic, heavier read, but it's very interesting.
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Um yeah, and then otherwise, like on a more broad note, um, there's something I've become aware of called linked fate theory.
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And if you just Google that, there's a bunch of stuff that pops up.
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And it's kind of this idea that um people in marginalized groups share the same um kind of struggles in history, right?
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And so they kind of align themselves with each other and also align themselves with their like future outcomes.
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Um, and it's just like a cool way to see how community works over time.
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Um, but also if those community spaces don't exist, then this framework can't happen.
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So that's something I've been reading about as well.
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Community is so important that that's one of my biggest advocacy things is that we just need to remember that we're not doing this work alone.
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Uh and we can feel like we're in a silo, but there's so many people there's so many people that feel like they're in a silo and we're all interconnected and we can be working together.
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Yes.
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And we should be, because otherwise, you know, we're not really gonna get anything done.
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So absolutely.
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I think that we have power in numbers.
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Uh I'm curious what advice based off of your own research, based off of your experience and the work that you've done that you might give to folks who are working in environments like Indiana and Florida, and how to um continue to provide inclusive and affirming spaces while also navigating some very uh divisive language and sometimes genuine fear for your job and your safety.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Um, it's really, really difficult.
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Um I would say, like, you know, something we found in our research is that even in schools in Indiana that have had um a GSA, like a gender sexuality alliance club, it's not always enough.
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So like certain students with different intersectional identities, uh maybe they have like a different race or a different cultural background, they don't feel welcome there.
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So I think it's like finding a way to create a sense of community in the classroom without necessarily explicitly teaching about these things, because unfortunately it is against the law.
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Um, but I would say I've learned in general that you know kids are very smart, like they can look at you and they can tell what is going on and what you stand for and what you don't stand for.
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So just going back to what I said earlier, like in if you are a teacher in your classroom, you know, stepping in if you hear another student make a homophobic comment or something like that, um, saying, like, you know, not in my classroom, that's not gonna happen.
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Um, little things like that add up over time, and it will click with the kids that, okay, like this educator is a safe space for me, even if, you know, I don't get to go to a GSA club or I don't get to learn about identities like mine in sex ed or things like that.
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Um I wish I had a better answer, but it's I think there's no right answer right now.
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I think that's why I like having these conversations, is because each time we get an answer, we get a multitude of perspectives, and there's some nugget that everybody can take with them to try to implement in their spaces.
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Yeah.
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I wish I had a magic wand that would just make things better.
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There's a really awesome musical called Xanna Don't, and it's about like the world if it was a queer world.
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Um then Xana has this magical power, and he's like, I can't change you because these two people are I excuse me, I uh almost threw up a little in my mouth.
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These two people are straight in this queer world.
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Um and uh they start to feel you know heterophobia.
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Um and so uh Xana's like, I can't change you, but I can change the world.
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And then then he does this magic spell that changes the world, he loses his sparkle, he loses his magic, and then he becomes the only queer person in the space.
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He basically creates the world we live in, um, and then is immediately uh enveloped in anti-queer rhetoric from his best friends, being like, Wow, I didn't realize that you were you know, um and it's a really beautiful story about connection and it's a good allegory of the experiences that like queer people are going through.
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And it I think again, it's something that like it has humor in it, but you take little pieces from it and you go, This is something I can actually use.
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This is something that I can use in the space that I work in.
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Um, and there's just no perfect answer.
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We I wish that we had a magic wand and we could change the world, but even changing the world isn't necessarily gonna remove hate, it just might change the hate.
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Um, so now it's a matter of how do we reduce the hate within the world we live in.
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Absolutely.
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That's so cool.
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I have to look into that.
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I've never heard of that, but I love theater as well, so I feel like I've been told that.
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It's amazing.
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Yeah, the original cast is pretty phenomenal, and it was an off-Broadway show with Jay Rodriguez from the original uh Queer Eye um as a leading role and a bunch of Broadway folks or people who went on to Broadway afterwards, but it's been around for a while and I absolutely love it.
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It's like my go-to when I need something uh lighthearted, because most of it is lighthearted and and funny.
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There's a whole song called Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
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Um that is again again, it is about um it is about the don't ask, don't tell policy, but in relation to like heterosexuality and they're at you know boot camp, and the per the drill sergeant is like uh do you you thinking about women?
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I bet your daddy slept with women.
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Does that make you angry?
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Cadet, like it's just like so funny, like how they spin everything um and it's parody, but it really does hit on sometimes the very dramatic and and vile things that are said to queer people, um, and it does it in a way that like you can joke about it, but also see the humanity in it when you think about the metaphor it's creating.
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So check it out, people out there.
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I definitely do if you like musical theater.
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Um so I'm curious about um your own experiences and what it's been like for you to kind of observe the educational settings in new spaces.
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So you grew up in Indiana, and I'm I'm wondering what your perspective on like the New York City DOE is and how they are are creating different environments and cultures than what you had.
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Yeah, that's a great question.
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I the short answer is it was an absolute shock, but in a good way.
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Um I obviously I think I do view it through like rose-colored glasses.
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I think I'm sure there's always like changes that still need to be made, but I remember like watching my supervisor facilitate this first allyship workshop, and she wrote like LGBTQ on the board, and I was like, wait, we can actually like say this.
00:23:35.130 --> 00:23:40.970
Like we just you're talking to like minors about this and you're not gonna get fired.
00:23:41.289 --> 00:23:42.330
It's insane.
00:23:42.570 --> 00:23:53.450
Um, so it like fully took me a minute um to like for it to actually click that this is something that is not only allowed but encouraged in New York City public schools.
00:23:53.610 --> 00:24:05.130
Um and also the policy that you know no parents can opt out their children from LGBTQ plus curriculum, um, you know, correct pronoun and name usage is mandatory.
00:24:05.370 --> 00:24:07.930
Gender neutral bathrooms are mandatory.
00:24:08.170 --> 00:24:13.529
I was just like my first few months here, I was like, wow, it's just amazing.
00:24:13.769 --> 00:24:17.130
Um and it honestly makes me so happy.
00:24:17.289 --> 00:24:23.450
I know there are still um severe issues of bullying in a lot of schools, there are still angry parents.
00:24:23.610 --> 00:24:31.210
Like, unfortunately, like that's the world we live in, especially with like the current federal um political climate.
00:24:31.450 --> 00:24:40.170
But it's just nice to see that NYCPS is kind of taking that initiative um a little bit more.
00:24:40.410 --> 00:24:52.410
And it also got me thinking, like, wow, if I had been able to go to school here, um, you know, especially in high school, I had a really, really, really difficult time.
00:24:52.570 --> 00:24:58.890
So if I had been able to go to school here, I just started thinking like how different my path might have been.
00:24:59.289 --> 00:25:14.650
Um, you know, there are all sorts of statistics about like how having a sense of community or having representation can lower suicide ideation for query use, like improve educational outcomes, improve health outcomes.
00:25:15.210 --> 00:25:19.529
So it's just nice that like New York as a whole is taking that into account.
00:25:19.690 --> 00:25:21.690
It's been very refreshing, I would say.
00:25:22.009 --> 00:25:23.450
Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:24.090 --> 00:25:30.170
You had mentioned that Indiana had its own version of like a don't say gay law that includes forced outings.
00:25:30.250 --> 00:25:31.850
Do you know when that was passed?
00:25:32.490 --> 00:25:36.650
Yes, it was also passed in 2023, same as the Florida one.
00:25:36.810 --> 00:25:45.050
Um it's actually why I started doing my research because this was passed, and I was like, this is absolutely awful.
00:25:45.289 --> 00:25:45.610
No.
00:25:45.850 --> 00:25:48.330
Um, it's called House Bill 1608.
00:25:48.410 --> 00:25:52.570
So it was passed in the Indiana House of Representatives.
00:25:52.810 --> 00:26:03.610
Um, and it basically says that you cannot teach gender and sexuality-related content for K through three.
00:26:03.930 --> 00:26:16.090
And then it has a very wit-vague way of wording it for high school, um, in which it's like technically it could be allowed, but it's up to interpretation of each school board.
00:26:16.330 --> 00:26:23.050
And unfortunately, the majority of school boards in Indiana are traditionally conservative leaning.
00:26:23.210 --> 00:26:29.450
So the way it's being implemented is that we are never teaching this at any school ever.
00:26:30.090 --> 00:26:34.330
Um the second part of that bill was a forced outing procedure.
00:26:34.650 --> 00:26:50.730
So if a student goes up to their teacher and is like, hey, I would like to use XY pronouns now, that teacher has five business days to tell the student's parent or guardian about this change or risk losing their job.
00:26:51.529 --> 00:27:02.730
So it's just horrible stuff that creates really unsafe environments for students and puts teachers in, you know, a really difficult position as well.
00:27:02.970 --> 00:27:04.009
So yeah.
00:27:04.330 --> 00:27:04.570
Yeah.
00:27:04.810 --> 00:27:07.930
I immediately go to like, how would I subvert this policies?
00:27:08.170 --> 00:27:11.289
And I would be like, okay, so an email is a notification, right?
00:27:11.370 --> 00:27:21.130
I'm notifying them of something, and then I put it in a white text in the email, you know, like how can I get around this?
00:27:21.370 --> 00:27:25.130
Um, I would have been arrested if I stayed in Texas.
00:27:25.210 --> 00:27:26.090
Uh no doubt.
00:27:26.490 --> 00:27:37.450
And it's funny because I think a lot of tech Texas and Florida and Tennessee and Kansas are, you know, taking the spotlight on their anti-queer and anti-trans behavior, especially in educational settings.
00:27:37.690 --> 00:27:41.690
But I think it's really important for people to know that it's not four states.
00:27:42.250 --> 00:27:44.570
It's happening in several states.
00:27:44.890 --> 00:27:45.130
Yeah.
00:27:45.850 --> 00:27:50.490
It's 22 states, that is nearly half the country.
00:27:50.730 --> 00:27:59.210
And I think that I think people need to realize that because it could be happening in your own backyard and it may be something that you're just not even aware of.
00:27:59.450 --> 00:28:04.009
And I'm going to advocate now that you all go run for your local school boards.
00:28:04.330 --> 00:28:19.850
Um there is uh the LGBTQ Victory Fund has an online workshop that you can do that is about just like how do I run for my local school board, and we're bringing them to the conference as well, so we can have this conversation about how do you get involved in your local politics.
00:28:19.930 --> 00:28:34.570
Because I tell you what, school boards have an immense amount of power in this country, which is wild considering they are just people who live in a community who may have zero experience in education.
00:28:35.050 --> 00:28:39.769
And oftentimes they have zero experience in education.
00:28:39.930 --> 00:28:56.970
Uh, so um again, I will advocate that those of you who are listening, if you can, if you are not working within the school board or the school district that you are you are in, then please go run for office because we need your voices.
00:28:57.370 --> 00:28:59.769
Um as we wind down, I'm curious.
00:28:59.850 --> 00:29:03.130
Uh, what is bringing you queer joy right now?
00:29:04.970 --> 00:29:06.650
Yeah, it's a good question.
00:29:06.810 --> 00:29:18.330
Um, I would say it definitely evolves different, like depending on what period of life um I'm in and how much burnout I'm facing.
00:29:18.730 --> 00:29:36.330
But in general, um since moving here especially, I've really enjoyed just like kind of taking time to myself and um I'll like go to the piers, any pier, and sit by the water and just stare at it.
00:29:36.570 --> 00:29:40.170
Um I'm from a landlocked state, but I've always loved water.
00:29:40.250 --> 00:29:45.050
So just being able to do that, it's kind of like calming for my nervous system.
00:29:45.769 --> 00:29:54.810
Um but other than that, I've always had a very, very solid group of friends, um, both back home and now here.
00:29:55.210 --> 00:30:01.050
And they're either also in the community or like the biggest allies you will ever find.
00:30:01.210 --> 00:30:12.009
Um and just spending quality time with them like makes me feel more sure of myself and also like able to face the world.
00:30:12.250 --> 00:30:16.570
Um and then lastly, I think similar to you, I love theater.
00:30:16.730 --> 00:30:25.050
So whenever I can, I try to go see a show or live music or I'll do karaoke with my friends.
00:30:25.130 --> 00:30:27.050
Um, I love performing too.
00:30:27.370 --> 00:30:34.330
So yeah, I think it's a great way to music was kind of my mental health thing growing up.
00:30:34.410 --> 00:30:46.330
Um, and in undergrad, I did a music minor, and it's just a great way to kind of release anger or tension or stress or even positive emotions like joy.
00:30:46.490 --> 00:30:48.730
So 100%.
00:30:49.289 --> 00:30:50.570
I approve that message.
00:30:50.730 --> 00:30:52.009
Uh I do the same thing.
00:30:52.170 --> 00:30:57.370
I will sing at the top of my lungs to get whatever emotion I have in my body out of my body.
00:30:57.769 --> 00:31:07.769
Um I also want to highlight something that you said because I didn't realize how much impact the ocean had on me until I moved to a landlocked city.
00:31:08.009 --> 00:31:13.210
While Texas, you know, has the Gulf of Mexico on one of its borders.
00:31:13.370 --> 00:31:15.529
I was in San Antonio, it's right in the center of the state.
00:31:15.610 --> 00:31:18.410
There's not there's a river, but there's not a lot of water around.
00:31:18.490 --> 00:31:23.610
Um, not comparatively when I grew up in Southern California, right off the Pacific Ocean.
00:31:23.769 --> 00:31:37.930
So coming back here and like literally being surrounded by rivers and so close to the ocean, I was like, oh, I forgot what it was like to feel the pulse of the earth because that's what I think of when those waves come in.
00:31:38.009 --> 00:31:44.170
I'm like, ah, that's like the pulse of the earth, and I can feel it, and like it's so calming.
00:31:44.410 --> 00:31:49.529
So um people go out there and at some point this year go sit by an ocean and just sit.
00:31:50.330 --> 00:31:52.170
Just sit and watch.
00:31:52.330 --> 00:31:54.250
Uh and don't look at your phone.
00:31:54.730 --> 00:31:55.850
Don't look at your phone, yeah.
00:31:56.009 --> 00:31:56.890
Leave it in the car.
00:31:57.769 --> 00:32:03.930
Um what is the message that you would like to leave queer educators with?
00:32:06.650 --> 00:32:16.090
Um I would just like to share that you know, you had more impact than you think you do.
00:32:16.330 --> 00:32:41.529
Sometimes it's really easy to get bogged down in like day-to-day routines um or you know, like pressures or horrible news from the outside world or your community, but you know, as cheesy as it sounds, like kids and people in general only need one person to you know have an impact on their life and to feel safe.
00:32:41.690 --> 00:32:44.490
And that person can make all the difference.
00:32:44.970 --> 00:32:52.570
Um and so if you can be that person for even just one kid, like that's making a difference in the world.
00:32:52.730 --> 00:32:56.170
And that I think is like fulfilling your job as an educator.
00:32:56.730 --> 00:33:02.730
Um, yeah, in my opinion, educators have the most important job on the planet.
00:33:06.730 --> 00:33:09.450
Thank you for being a part of Queering Education.
00:33:09.610 --> 00:33:12.009
This is a Teaching While Queer podcast.
00:33:12.170 --> 00:33:17.289
Take what you need from this conversation and bring it back into your classroom and your students.
00:33:17.450 --> 00:33:18.890
I'm Brian Stanton.
00:33:19.050 --> 00:33:21.850
Until next time, keep showing up.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.320
You had more impact than you think you do.
00:00:08.560 --> 00:00:14.160
Welcome to Queering Education, where we challenge what school is and build what it should be.
00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:15.679
I'm Brian Stanton.
00:00:15.839 --> 00:00:23.839
This is a Teaching While Queer podcast about inclusive teaching, queer pedagogy, and showing up authentically in every classroom.
00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:26.320
Alright, let's do the work.
00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:36.640
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Queering Education, a Teaching While Queer podcast.
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I'm your host, Brian Stanton.
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My pronouns are they them.
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Today I have the pleasure of chatting with someone virtually that I've had the joy of meeting in real physical life, Sophia Leary, an MPA student at NYU's Wagner.
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Hi, how are you doing?
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I'm doing great.
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How are you?
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I am so great.
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I'm glad that we get to have this time together and uh and talk outside of the formal settings.
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Um can you tell everybody who's listening a little bit more about yourself?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Um, so like you said, I'm Jean Fia.
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I use Shilei pronouns um and I identify as queer.
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Um I'm originally from the state of Indiana, um, and I moved here about a year ago um to pursue a graduate degree um in a field that I'm very passionate about, which is advocacy for queer youth, um, but also at an intersection of educational policy.
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Um and so where I grew up, there was basically zero discussion of queer identities at all.
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Um it was a conservative state, you know, um we have our own version of Florida's Don't Say Gay Bill, um House Bill 1608, which included a forced outing procedure.
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So growing up, I struggled a lot with mental health issues and I didn't feel safe at school.
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So eventually, when I did go to college, I realized that I want to make sure that no student has to feel the way I felt.
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And I was like, how do I make sure that that happens?
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And that's how I found this kind of more niche advocacy route, kind of intertwined with education.
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Um, I started an organization called Students for Equity in Public Affairs.
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Uh, we did a lot of work to make sure all types of marginalized communities were included at our school.
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Um, and then I also began working as a music teacher with K1 back home, which was a lovely experience.
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And now I'm here at NYU.
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Um I've also done some work with PFLAG NYC to further my advocacy journey as well.
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Yeah, and that's actually where we met was through PFLAG.
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What was your work when you were working with PFLAG?
00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:06.719
So I worked under Shelby and the Safe Schools program.
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Um so I facilitated a lot of workshops in all five boroughs of the city, um teaching how to be a better ally.
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Um I also just created a workshop.
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Um, I had the final presentation yesterday, and it's a cultural humility um workshop, and it kind of talks about how we can include people from different cultural backgrounds, um, different religious backgrounds, and also be an ally.
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And it's aimed specifically at educators.
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I love that.
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I'm a huge proponent of culturally responsive teaching and culturally responsive pedagogy.
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And sometimes the the representation ends up involving tokenism because we are moving very fast and teachers have very limited time.
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So I think that a workshop like the one you're talking about, about cultural humility, uh, is is a wonderful asset.
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Um and I hope to see it uh expand beyond even just this local owl that is New York City.
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Uh so hopefully your work gets out there even further.
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You will be presenting at the upcoming Querying Education Conference too.
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I will, yes.
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And thank you for that opportunity as well.
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Um, I'm actually gonna be presenting some research that is gonna be published in 2027, early 2027, hopefully.
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Um but it's basically it started as my undergraduate honors thesis.
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Um, but I've worked on it a lot with my mentor, who is a professor now at University of Florida.
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Um he's also a part of the community.
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Um and we basically did a bunch of qualitative interviews with people in my undergraduate institution that went to high school in Indiana and we asked them about their experiences.
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We said, okay, did you feel represented by any community spaces?
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Like, how is your mental health?
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How did teachers respond to you?
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Um, how did your peers respond to you?
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And it was just such an insightful experience that after I wrote up my undergrad thesis, we were like, wait, this could really, really be insightful for educators and policymakers in the future.
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So we kind of revamped it a little bit.
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Um, we categorized the interviews and we have some pretty insightful findings, I would say.
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So I'm very excited to talk about that.
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Yeah, I'm excited to uh to watch it.
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I I tell everybody that um our conference is virtual and everything is recorded.
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So even though on the day of I'm gonna be running around from place to place in the virtual realm trying to make sure everybody's taken care of.
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I go back and I watch all the sessions because I'm so intrigued by the things that people are talking about and the research that's coming out of it.
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I firmly believe we need more data.
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Um so uh so I love that these opportunities exist and that they are oftentimes so personal to the person presenting.
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Uh and I think that is true for you.
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I know it's true for me when I'm presenting, because I present about querying theater education, and that is quite literally my bread and butter.
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It's what I've loved since I was a kid, theater.
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So um if you have an opportunity for those who are listening, make sure you register for the conference.
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And now we're done with the plugs.
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Um what I mean, you explained a little bit about your experience in Indiana and um and how that's drawn you to this place where you want to make sure that students don't have the same experiences that you have.
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What are some things that you think people should be doing to kind of help mitigate that?
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That's a really good question.
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Um I think, you know, it it's hard because there are certain things that, you know, educators might want to do, like, I don't know, put up a pride flag or um put out like inclusive books, which is a great start.
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But oftentimes, um like what I experienced as well, and what people in the interviews were telling me is that that's kind of where it stopped.
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So it kind of became almost like a performative allyship sort of thing with these educators, um, because they weren't stepping in when correct pronouns were were being used, or like they weren't actually defending their queer students that were getting picked on or were getting bullied.
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So I think, you know, we say at PFLAG that like allyship starts with a choice, right?
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But like part of that choice is you have to think through um everything that allyship means.
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So it's not just you're not doing it to make yourself feel better.
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You're doing it because you want your students to genuinely have a safe space and you want to be a safe person for your students.
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So that's just something I would say to keep in mind is like, you know, this isn't necessarily about you.
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Um as basic as it might sound, I think like the best way to begin to try and support a marginalized group of people, like whether it be queer people or any other any other group, you have to ask them, right?
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You might have these like preconceived notions of, oh, I'm gonna do this, this, and this to make their lives better.
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But what if that's not what they need, right?
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So I think just like beginning to have an open dialogue and kind of de-centering yourself from the support is a great place to start.
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I love that.
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I think that you're absolutely correct.
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I like to think of allyship as an action, it's a verb.
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Um, and so it's not something that we need to just put up our sticker and then walk away from.
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And that allyship is intersectional, right?
00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:16.879
Um, because being an ally doesn't mean that you're just an ally for the LGBTQ community.
00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:20.879
You need to be an ally for any marginalized community.
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Um, and it takes action every single day.
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Um and I think that's a smart, I mean, the way that you framed uh PFLAG's um understanding of it, that it starts with a choice, that's a smart thing to assess because sometimes those choices are going to put you in uncomfortable situations, and sometimes those choices might put you in unsafe situations.
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And you have to be willing to assess that for yourself.
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And I would honestly assess that for yourself before you decide to give yourself a label that is ally.
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Because if you're not willing to stand up when the time is needed, um then it's it's a sticker, it's a gold star, it's not a it's not a an actual um actionable allyship.
00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:12.000
Absolutely.
00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:13.360
Yeah, exactly.
00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:15.360
So what are you hoping?
00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:17.519
Um you're working on your master's.
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What are you hoping that um you will be able to do dream world when you're done with your master's program?
00:10:57.209 --> 00:10:58.889
That's a good question.
00:10:59.129 --> 00:11:09.289
Um when I was younger, I would have without hesitation told you that I went to work for the ACLU, the American Civil Liberties Union.
00:11:09.529 --> 00:11:16.809
Um I was convinced for a very long time that I would go to law school, kind of follow that legal path.
00:11:17.049 --> 00:11:22.889
Um because my undergrad degree is in law and public policy as well.
00:11:23.129 --> 00:11:31.529
Um, and while I'm still interested in that, I think now I've kind of realized the power that nonprofits can have.
00:11:32.169 --> 00:11:41.289
So I think absolute dream job um would definitely be something similar to what PFLAG in RIC does.
00:11:41.529 --> 00:11:45.289
Um, or maybe more on the policy side.
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So like maybe in the DOE.
00:11:48.490 --> 00:11:58.569
Um either way, I want to be very focused in L3TG Plus advocacy and how it is applied in schools and in different learning environments.
00:11:58.809 --> 00:12:12.089
Um so whether like I'm the one writing that curriculum, or if I'm the one like maybe diffusing angry parents, I'd be happy to do that too, or creating workshops such as this cultural humility workshop.
00:12:12.250 --> 00:12:22.329
Um I just I'm the type of person where I need to feel like I am making a tangible difference for my community.
00:12:22.969 --> 00:12:25.610
So yeah, something in that realm would be ideal.
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Fingers crossed.
00:12:26.889 --> 00:12:27.529
I feel that.
00:12:27.689 --> 00:12:30.569
The the I need to feel like I'm making a difference.
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Uh that is a constant conversation I have with my therapist.
00:12:34.729 --> 00:12:37.849
Um I'm not doing enough.
00:12:38.089 --> 00:12:39.049
You're doing too much.
00:12:39.370 --> 00:12:40.569
I'm not doing enough.
00:12:40.809 --> 00:12:43.849
Um burnout and everything.
00:12:44.649 --> 00:12:45.289
Exactly that.
00:12:45.370 --> 00:12:48.889
And I get into these, it's a cycle of burnout, I feel like, sometimes.
00:12:49.129 --> 00:12:53.449
Um and it's funny uh because Teaching While Queer has become a nonprofit.
00:12:53.529 --> 00:12:59.929
Um, and it started as a podcast, and my favorite part of the all of it is that's having these conversations.
00:13:00.089 --> 00:13:26.250
And I was just talking to my husband, I was like, one day the organization is gonna be stable and in a position where we can actually have someone come on as an executive director, and I could be a podcast host and founder and not and not uh do all of the behind the scenes work, not all of it, but the majority of the behind-the-scenes work that happens with the nonprofit.
00:13:26.409 --> 00:13:35.689
And it's not that I don't love the work that we're doing, it's just there's so much work, and there's so much work that needs to be done, it can make your checklist feel like it's constant.
00:13:36.569 --> 00:13:36.969
Right.
00:13:37.209 --> 00:13:40.969
I can only imagine, but I admire you for all of that.
00:13:41.049 --> 00:13:42.169
It's very important.
00:13:42.569 --> 00:13:44.089
So thanks.
00:13:44.250 --> 00:13:45.370
I appreciate that.
00:13:45.610 --> 00:13:57.529
Um I am curious about any resources that you have that people can use to to take those steps in creating a more inclusive space for their for their students.
00:13:58.729 --> 00:14:00.729
Yeah, um, I have a few.
00:14:00.969 --> 00:14:05.289
So first I do have to plug PFLAG NYC again.
00:14:05.449 --> 00:14:11.289
Um, they have a great website with resources for teachers, for parents.
00:14:11.610 --> 00:14:23.289
Um, I actually have a parent, so I was raised by a single mom from Hungary, and we have had a very rocky relationship since I came out.
00:14:23.529 --> 00:14:30.169
Um but I've sent her some of PFLY's resources and been like, hey, please read this.
00:14:30.409 --> 00:14:37.370
Um and it's actually helped her a lot in her kind of like journey towards understanding and accepting me.
00:14:37.610 --> 00:14:40.490
Um so I think that is very cool.
00:14:40.729 --> 00:14:48.409
Um something that I'm currently reading, it is a book um by a professor at Rutgers.
00:14:48.569 --> 00:14:54.490
It's called Queering Public Policy: a Disruptive Yet Inclusive Framework for Policy Making.
00:14:54.569 --> 00:14:56.329
And it's by Diego Galico.
00:14:57.289 --> 00:15:11.129
Um, and it kind of talks about how like what queering it's public administration, but he also talks about education as well, like what that means, and how you said earlier, like with allyship, it's a verb, right?
00:15:11.370 --> 00:15:17.370
Um, and we have to stop being afraid of disruption if we want meaningful change.
00:15:17.610 --> 00:15:24.009
Um it is a more like academic, heavier read, but it's very interesting.
00:15:24.250 --> 00:15:35.049
Um yeah, and then otherwise, like on a more broad note, um, there's something I've become aware of called linked fate theory.
00:15:35.129 --> 00:15:38.889
And if you just Google that, there's a bunch of stuff that pops up.
00:15:39.049 --> 00:15:48.490
And it's kind of this idea that um people in marginalized groups share the same um kind of struggles in history, right?
00:15:48.569 --> 00:15:57.129
And so they kind of align themselves with each other and also align themselves with their like future outcomes.
00:15:57.370 --> 00:16:02.490
Um, and it's just like a cool way to see how community works over time.
00:16:02.809 --> 00:16:08.889
Um, but also if those community spaces don't exist, then this framework can't happen.
00:16:09.049 --> 00:16:11.929
So that's something I've been reading about as well.
00:16:12.490 --> 00:16:19.610
Community is so important that that's one of my biggest advocacy things is that we just need to remember that we're not doing this work alone.
00:16:19.769 --> 00:16:28.169
Uh and we can feel like we're in a silo, but there's so many people there's so many people that feel like they're in a silo and we're all interconnected and we can be working together.
00:16:28.969 --> 00:16:29.610
Yes.
00:16:29.929 --> 00:16:33.610
And we should be, because otherwise, you know, we're not really gonna get anything done.
00:16:33.689 --> 00:16:34.809
So absolutely.
00:16:34.969 --> 00:16:37.049
I think that we have power in numbers.
00:16:37.370 --> 00:17:07.450
Uh I'm curious what advice based off of your own research, based off of your experience and the work that you've done that you might give to folks who are working in environments like Indiana and Florida, and how to um continue to provide inclusive and affirming spaces while also navigating some very uh divisive language and sometimes genuine fear for your job and your safety.
00:17:08.490 --> 00:17:09.130
Yeah.
00:17:09.529 --> 00:17:10.009
Yeah.
00:17:10.250 --> 00:17:13.610
Um, it's really, really difficult.
00:17:13.930 --> 00:17:30.329
Um I would say, like, you know, something we found in our research is that even in schools in Indiana that have had um a GSA, like a gender sexuality alliance club, it's not always enough.
00:17:30.650 --> 00:17:41.130
So like certain students with different intersectional identities, uh maybe they have like a different race or a different cultural background, they don't feel welcome there.
00:17:41.450 --> 00:17:57.130
So I think it's like finding a way to create a sense of community in the classroom without necessarily explicitly teaching about these things, because unfortunately it is against the law.
00:17:57.370 --> 00:18:08.810
Um, but I would say I've learned in general that you know kids are very smart, like they can look at you and they can tell what is going on and what you stand for and what you don't stand for.
00:18:09.450 --> 00:18:26.730
So just going back to what I said earlier, like in if you are a teacher in your classroom, you know, stepping in if you hear another student make a homophobic comment or something like that, um, saying, like, you know, not in my classroom, that's not gonna happen.
00:18:26.890 --> 00:18:44.890
Um, little things like that add up over time, and it will click with the kids that, okay, like this educator is a safe space for me, even if, you know, I don't get to go to a GSA club or I don't get to learn about identities like mine in sex ed or things like that.
00:18:45.130 --> 00:18:51.769
Um I wish I had a better answer, but it's I think there's no right answer right now.
00:18:52.009 --> 00:19:05.610
I think that's why I like having these conversations, is because each time we get an answer, we get a multitude of perspectives, and there's some nugget that everybody can take with them to try to implement in their spaces.
00:19:06.170 --> 00:19:06.570
Yeah.
00:19:06.890 --> 00:19:09.289
I wish I had a magic wand that would just make things better.
00:19:09.450 --> 00:19:14.730
There's a really awesome musical called Xanna Don't, and it's about like the world if it was a queer world.
00:19:14.890 --> 00:19:26.570
Um then Xana has this magical power, and he's like, I can't change you because these two people are I excuse me, I uh almost threw up a little in my mouth.
00:19:26.650 --> 00:19:29.289
These two people are straight in this queer world.
00:19:29.529 --> 00:19:34.490
Um and uh they start to feel you know heterophobia.
00:19:34.810 --> 00:19:41.210
Um and so uh Xana's like, I can't change you, but I can change the world.
00:19:41.450 --> 00:19:52.009
And then then he does this magic spell that changes the world, he loses his sparkle, he loses his magic, and then he becomes the only queer person in the space.
00:19:52.170 --> 00:20:20.170
He basically creates the world we live in, um, and then is immediately uh enveloped in anti-queer rhetoric from his best friends, being like, Wow, I didn't realize that you were you know, um and it's a really beautiful story about connection and it's a good allegory of the experiences that like queer people are going through.
00:20:20.490 --> 00:20:32.410
And it I think again, it's something that like it has humor in it, but you take little pieces from it and you go, This is something I can actually use.
00:20:32.570 --> 00:20:35.529
This is something that I can use in the space that I work in.
00:20:35.690 --> 00:20:38.650
Um, and there's just no perfect answer.
00:20:38.810 --> 00:20:47.610
We I wish that we had a magic wand and we could change the world, but even changing the world isn't necessarily gonna remove hate, it just might change the hate.
00:20:47.769 --> 00:20:54.490
Um, so now it's a matter of how do we reduce the hate within the world we live in.
00:20:55.769 --> 00:20:56.650
Absolutely.
00:20:56.810 --> 00:20:57.370
That's so cool.
00:20:57.450 --> 00:20:58.330
I have to look into that.
00:20:58.410 --> 00:21:02.650
I've never heard of that, but I love theater as well, so I feel like I've been told that.
00:21:02.730 --> 00:21:03.130
It's amazing.
00:21:03.370 --> 00:21:18.650
Yeah, the original cast is pretty phenomenal, and it was an off-Broadway show with Jay Rodriguez from the original uh Queer Eye um as a leading role and a bunch of Broadway folks or people who went on to Broadway afterwards, but it's been around for a while and I absolutely love it.
00:21:18.730 --> 00:21:27.610
It's like my go-to when I need something uh lighthearted, because most of it is lighthearted and and funny.
00:21:28.009 --> 00:21:31.210
There's a whole song called Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
00:21:31.370 --> 00:21:53.610
Um that is again again, it is about um it is about the don't ask, don't tell policy, but in relation to like heterosexuality and they're at you know boot camp, and the per the drill sergeant is like uh do you you thinking about women?
00:21:53.769 --> 00:21:55.850
I bet your daddy slept with women.
00:21:56.009 --> 00:21:57.450
Does that make you angry?
00:21:57.610 --> 00:22:24.730
Cadet, like it's just like so funny, like how they spin everything um and it's parody, but it really does hit on sometimes the very dramatic and and vile things that are said to queer people, um, and it does it in a way that like you can joke about it, but also see the humanity in it when you think about the metaphor it's creating.
00:22:25.450 --> 00:22:27.370
So check it out, people out there.
00:22:27.450 --> 00:22:29.930
I definitely do if you like musical theater.
00:22:30.490 --> 00:22:44.890
Um so I'm curious about um your own experiences and what it's been like for you to kind of observe the educational settings in new spaces.
00:22:45.130 --> 00:23:00.090
So you grew up in Indiana, and I'm I'm wondering what your perspective on like the New York City DOE is and how they are are creating different environments and cultures than what you had.
00:23:01.610 --> 00:23:03.850
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:23:04.090 --> 00:23:09.050
I the short answer is it was an absolute shock, but in a good way.
00:23:09.529 --> 00:23:15.450
Um I obviously I think I do view it through like rose-colored glasses.
00:23:15.610 --> 00:23:34.890
I think I'm sure there's always like changes that still need to be made, but I remember like watching my supervisor facilitate this first allyship workshop, and she wrote like LGBTQ on the board, and I was like, wait, we can actually like say this.
00:23:35.130 --> 00:23:40.970
Like we just you're talking to like minors about this and you're not gonna get fired.
00:23:41.289 --> 00:23:42.330
It's insane.
00:23:42.570 --> 00:23:53.450
Um, so it like fully took me a minute um to like for it to actually click that this is something that is not only allowed but encouraged in New York City public schools.
00:23:53.610 --> 00:24:05.130
Um and also the policy that you know no parents can opt out their children from LGBTQ plus curriculum, um, you know, correct pronoun and name usage is mandatory.
00:24:05.370 --> 00:24:07.930
Gender neutral bathrooms are mandatory.
00:24:08.170 --> 00:24:13.529
I was just like my first few months here, I was like, wow, it's just amazing.
00:24:13.769 --> 00:24:17.130
Um and it honestly makes me so happy.
00:24:17.289 --> 00:24:23.450
I know there are still um severe issues of bullying in a lot of schools, there are still angry parents.
00:24:23.610 --> 00:24:31.210
Like, unfortunately, like that's the world we live in, especially with like the current federal um political climate.
00:24:31.450 --> 00:24:40.170
But it's just nice to see that NYCPS is kind of taking that initiative um a little bit more.
00:24:40.410 --> 00:24:52.410
And it also got me thinking, like, wow, if I had been able to go to school here, um, you know, especially in high school, I had a really, really, really difficult time.
00:24:52.570 --> 00:24:58.890
So if I had been able to go to school here, I just started thinking like how different my path might have been.
00:24:59.289 --> 00:25:14.650
Um, you know, there are all sorts of statistics about like how having a sense of community or having representation can lower suicide ideation for query use, like improve educational outcomes, improve health outcomes.
00:25:15.210 --> 00:25:19.529
So it's just nice that like New York as a whole is taking that into account.
00:25:19.690 --> 00:25:21.690
It's been very refreshing, I would say.
00:25:22.009 --> 00:25:23.450
Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:24.090 --> 00:25:30.170
You had mentioned that Indiana had its own version of like a don't say gay law that includes forced outings.
00:25:30.250 --> 00:25:31.850
Do you know when that was passed?
00:25:32.490 --> 00:25:36.650
Yes, it was also passed in 2023, same as the Florida one.
00:25:36.810 --> 00:25:45.050
Um it's actually why I started doing my research because this was passed, and I was like, this is absolutely awful.
00:25:45.289 --> 00:25:45.610
No.
00:25:45.850 --> 00:25:48.330
Um, it's called House Bill 1608.
00:25:48.410 --> 00:25:52.570
So it was passed in the Indiana House of Representatives.
00:25:52.810 --> 00:26:03.610
Um, and it basically says that you cannot teach gender and sexuality-related content for K through three.
00:26:03.930 --> 00:26:16.090
And then it has a very wit-vague way of wording it for high school, um, in which it's like technically it could be allowed, but it's up to interpretation of each school board.
00:26:16.330 --> 00:26:23.050
And unfortunately, the majority of school boards in Indiana are traditionally conservative leaning.
00:26:23.210 --> 00:26:29.450
So the way it's being implemented is that we are never teaching this at any school ever.
00:26:30.090 --> 00:26:34.330
Um the second part of that bill was a forced outing procedure.
00:26:34.650 --> 00:26:50.730
So if a student goes up to their teacher and is like, hey, I would like to use XY pronouns now, that teacher has five business days to tell the student's parent or guardian about this change or risk losing their job.
00:26:51.529 --> 00:27:02.730
So it's just horrible stuff that creates really unsafe environments for students and puts teachers in, you know, a really difficult position as well.
00:27:02.970 --> 00:27:04.009
So yeah.
00:27:04.330 --> 00:27:04.570
Yeah.
00:27:04.810 --> 00:27:07.930
I immediately go to like, how would I subvert this policies?
00:27:08.170 --> 00:27:11.289
And I would be like, okay, so an email is a notification, right?
00:27:11.370 --> 00:27:21.130
I'm notifying them of something, and then I put it in a white text in the email, you know, like how can I get around this?
00:27:21.370 --> 00:27:25.130
Um, I would have been arrested if I stayed in Texas.
00:27:25.210 --> 00:27:26.090
Uh no doubt.
00:27:26.490 --> 00:27:37.450
And it's funny because I think a lot of tech Texas and Florida and Tennessee and Kansas are, you know, taking the spotlight on their anti-queer and anti-trans behavior, especially in educational settings.
00:27:37.690 --> 00:27:41.690
But I think it's really important for people to know that it's not four states.
00:27:42.250 --> 00:27:44.570
It's happening in several states.
00:27:44.890 --> 00:27:45.130
Yeah.
00:27:45.850 --> 00:27:50.490
It's 22 states, that is nearly half the country.
00:27:50.730 --> 00:27:59.210
And I think that I think people need to realize that because it could be happening in your own backyard and it may be something that you're just not even aware of.
00:27:59.450 --> 00:28:04.009
And I'm going to advocate now that you all go run for your local school boards.
00:28:04.330 --> 00:28:19.850
Um there is uh the LGBTQ Victory Fund has an online workshop that you can do that is about just like how do I run for my local school board, and we're bringing them to the conference as well, so we can have this conversation about how do you get involved in your local politics.
00:28:19.930 --> 00:28:34.570
Because I tell you what, school boards have an immense amount of power in this country, which is wild considering they are just people who live in a community who may have zero experience in education.
00:28:35.050 --> 00:28:39.769
And oftentimes they have zero experience in education.
00:28:39.930 --> 00:28:56.970
Uh, so um again, I will advocate that those of you who are listening, if you can, if you are not working within the school board or the school district that you are you are in, then please go run for office because we need your voices.
00:28:57.370 --> 00:28:59.769
Um as we wind down, I'm curious.
00:28:59.850 --> 00:29:03.130
Uh, what is bringing you queer joy right now?
00:29:04.970 --> 00:29:06.650
Yeah, it's a good question.
00:29:06.810 --> 00:29:18.330
Um, I would say it definitely evolves different, like depending on what period of life um I'm in and how much burnout I'm facing.
00:29:18.730 --> 00:29:36.330
But in general, um since moving here especially, I've really enjoyed just like kind of taking time to myself and um I'll like go to the piers, any pier, and sit by the water and just stare at it.
00:29:36.570 --> 00:29:40.170
Um I'm from a landlocked state, but I've always loved water.
00:29:40.250 --> 00:29:45.050
So just being able to do that, it's kind of like calming for my nervous system.
00:29:45.769 --> 00:29:54.810
Um but other than that, I've always had a very, very solid group of friends, um, both back home and now here.
00:29:55.210 --> 00:30:01.050
And they're either also in the community or like the biggest allies you will ever find.
00:30:01.210 --> 00:30:12.009
Um and just spending quality time with them like makes me feel more sure of myself and also like able to face the world.
00:30:12.250 --> 00:30:16.570
Um and then lastly, I think similar to you, I love theater.
00:30:16.730 --> 00:30:25.050
So whenever I can, I try to go see a show or live music or I'll do karaoke with my friends.
00:30:25.130 --> 00:30:27.050
Um, I love performing too.
00:30:27.370 --> 00:30:34.330
So yeah, I think it's a great way to music was kind of my mental health thing growing up.
00:30:34.410 --> 00:30:46.330
Um, and in undergrad, I did a music minor, and it's just a great way to kind of release anger or tension or stress or even positive emotions like joy.
00:30:46.490 --> 00:30:48.730
So 100%.
00:30:49.289 --> 00:30:50.570
I approve that message.
00:30:50.730 --> 00:30:52.009
Uh I do the same thing.
00:30:52.170 --> 00:30:57.370
I will sing at the top of my lungs to get whatever emotion I have in my body out of my body.
00:30:57.769 --> 00:31:07.769
Um I also want to highlight something that you said because I didn't realize how much impact the ocean had on me until I moved to a landlocked city.
00:31:08.009 --> 00:31:13.210
While Texas, you know, has the Gulf of Mexico on one of its borders.
00:31:13.370 --> 00:31:15.529
I was in San Antonio, it's right in the center of the state.
00:31:15.610 --> 00:31:18.410
There's not there's a river, but there's not a lot of water around.
00:31:18.490 --> 00:31:23.610
Um, not comparatively when I grew up in Southern California, right off the Pacific Ocean.
00:31:23.769 --> 00:31:37.930
So coming back here and like literally being surrounded by rivers and so close to the ocean, I was like, oh, I forgot what it was like to feel the pulse of the earth because that's what I think of when those waves come in.
00:31:38.009 --> 00:31:44.170
I'm like, ah, that's like the pulse of the earth, and I can feel it, and like it's so calming.
00:31:44.410 --> 00:31:49.529
So um people go out there and at some point this year go sit by an ocean and just sit.
00:31:50.330 --> 00:31:52.170
Just sit and watch.
00:31:52.330 --> 00:31:54.250
Uh and don't look at your phone.
00:31:54.730 --> 00:31:55.850
Don't look at your phone, yeah.
00:31:56.009 --> 00:31:56.890
Leave it in the car.
00:31:57.769 --> 00:32:03.930
Um what is the message that you would like to leave queer educators with?
00:32:06.650 --> 00:32:16.090
Um I would just like to share that you know, you had more impact than you think you do.
00:32:16.330 --> 00:32:41.529
Sometimes it's really easy to get bogged down in like day-to-day routines um or you know, like pressures or horrible news from the outside world or your community, but you know, as cheesy as it sounds, like kids and people in general only need one person to you know have an impact on their life and to feel safe.
00:32:41.690 --> 00:32:44.490
And that person can make all the difference.
00:32:44.970 --> 00:32:52.570
Um and so if you can be that person for even just one kid, like that's making a difference in the world.
00:32:52.730 --> 00:32:56.170
And that I think is like fulfilling your job as an educator.
00:32:56.730 --> 00:33:02.730
Um, yeah, in my opinion, educators have the most important job on the planet.
00:33:06.730 --> 00:33:09.450
Thank you for being a part of Queering Education.
00:33:09.610 --> 00:33:12.009
This is a Teaching While Queer podcast.
00:33:12.170 --> 00:33:17.289
Take what you need from this conversation and bring it back into your classroom and your students.
00:33:17.450 --> 00:33:18.890
I'm Brian Stanton.
00:33:19.050 --> 00:33:21.850
Until next time, keep showing up.
