Oxford Physicist PROVES we live in a HOLOGRAM | Jude Currivan, Ph.D

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You'd think that all the information of that three-dimensional spherical star would be proportional to its volume,
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so the volume of the black hole, yeah, would actually a measure of the information that's retained,
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but it's not. It's proportional to the surface area of that star, which is the spherical
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event horizon. Now, when that was realized, there was an a-ha moment because that's what a hologram does.
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Welcome to the Quantum Theory Podcast.
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Thank you, Jude, so much for joining us today on the Quantum Theory Podcast. I am
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elated to have you on and thrilled to dive into most notably your book, The Cosmic
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hologram, and really the perspective shift paradigm shift, I would call it, that we as a species
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are undergoing in the present day, and that I'm personally thrilled to be alive during and be a part
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of, and I think you are truly one of the great minds of our day that is really making this tangible,
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quantifiable and empirical through your studies and through the work that you've put down. Before we
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hop too deep into things, I want to just really quickly just get some background on yourself for
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the audience and kind of your origin story of how all of this started for you. I know you mentioned
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some noetic experiences at a young age that kind of opened your mind to Indra's net and this idea
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very, very early on, and so I'd love to give the audience a little background of kind of, you know,
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who is Jude and how have you arrived to where you are now and you're in?
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Well, Jarrod, thanks for that. And just to say it's been a very scenic route. It has not been a
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linear journey by any stretch, and I'm very grateful for that because along the way I've sort of,
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you know, been so, I'm curious. I mean, my mum used to say that curiosity was my middle name.
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So from a very early age, I was just curious about the world around me. And as you mentioned,
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at a very early age, I'm four years old, I began to have what you refer to as noetic
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experiences, some might call them super normal experiences, but basically I was having out of body
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experiences. I was hearing discontent voices in my inner hearing. I was seeing sort of auras. So,
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the whole panoply arrayed before me of a world that were not what had appeared the folks around me
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were experiencing. I didn't realise that to begin with. It was only over time that I sort of realised
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that other folks weren't, didn't seem to be experienced this. And it wasn't because I was special.
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It really wasn't. What I did realise is by not sharing what I was experiencing, just having too
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much fun actually. I didn't share them with anyone. I was much, much older. So nobody around me
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said, "Oh, that's nonsense. Oh, that's just imagination." So I just carried on with this
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noetic, super normal walking between world's experiences, which has been a lifetime.
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Every day still. So that really was my, my both my, my, my, by beginning and my journey and my
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ongoing exploration. So in a way, I'm so grateful for that because I grew up the daughter,
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grand daughter, coal miners in the north of England. So very sort of modest upbringing,
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very practical upbringing. Here as I, not telling many folks about it, but heading off into the stars
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and beyond. But what it did was it also, the curiosity was about, well, how was when I was
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experiencing bridging to this world and what I was being taught at school. And actually, what I was
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being taught at school was the paradigm of a world of materialism and separation, very practical,
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very mechanistic. And even when I went to university at Oxford and study quantum physics and relativity
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physics and cosmology, they were giving deep clues into what I'd been experiencing from childhood.
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But do you know, for me, the most comforting, validating sources were the ancient traditions,
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the universal wisdom traditions, and especially that of ancient India, the Vedic tradition of ancient
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India, because that was saying I was reading from a very early age that mind and consciousness aren't
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something we have, then what we and the whole world are, that is in the Upanishads, that is in the
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the vision of Ayurveda, and I said, yes, this is how I'm experiencing the world. So that really gave me,
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I think, the sort of the vote to keep on going. And so the whole journey has been that continuation
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of exploration. And now, as you say, I think we are in this pivotal threshold moment where we have
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so much evidence that's coming forward that's converging with universal wisdom teachings and
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indigenous traditions to literally turn the old paradigm of materialism and separation on its head.
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I absolutely love that. Thank you so much for sharing. And that is the mission of the quantum
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theory podcast to converge science and spirituality in those Eastern wisdom traditions. And I love
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everything about what you just said. And it's interesting, I feel that these thinkers, such as yourself,
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who have kind of gone down this road, have a foundation of experience. If you're familiar with
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Federico Fajin, his story is now pretty prominent. Okay, yes. So I feel as though there are these,
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there's sort of a foundation of first hand experience that gives sort of the direct,
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I guess, window into that world. And then you can then start connecting the dots into the actual
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science that's now emerging. And so I'd love just to kind of set the stage here because you mentioned it,
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the really where we are with the divide of materialism and more of the oneness type of perspective,
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cosmic mind, consciousness being fundamental even theories like idealism and things of the sort.
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Where are we right now? And what is the key divide between these two worlds?
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Well, I think first of all, there are a lot of scientists who of course were trained in a paradigm
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of which is actually a mechanistic paradigm that goes back to mid-19th century,
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before quantum physics, before relativity physics. But that paradigm was not just powerful in a
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scientific perspective, it was very powerful because it drove the industrial revolution. So all that's
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come forward really since then in terms of the way we educate our children, the way we govern
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ourselves, structures, organisations, they're all really based on this mechanistic worldview.
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And of course, it's a worldview that is essentially meaningless and purposeless. And you know,
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where consciousness was always a great mystery, but was always assumed to be just human consciousness,
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or a bit more beyond that, and somehow emerged through random accidental evolutionary processes.
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So that's really what you and I would have inherited at school, certainly me,
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and those of my age, that's what we were taught at school. And the point is that even the breakthroughs
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of quantum physics and relativity physics, they gave us the clues, they gave us profound clues
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that the world is not made of separate stuff, that it is about profound interrelatedness,
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and to work at all, as you probably aware, quantum physics requires the entire universe
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to be non-locally unified. And you're almost certainly aware too, that for decades in the late 1980s
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and through into the 2018, it was finally able to experimentally show by entangling photons of light
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in a lab with starlight from 600 light years away, and a whole cascade of entanglement triggered by
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light from a quasar, a very active, galactic center, 12.2 billion light years away.
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In 2018, that took this experimentally to cosmological levels, and that was so compelling
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that in 2022, the Nobel Prize of Physics was given for universal non-locality, in other words,
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a unitive universe. And you know, Einstein didn't get the Nobel Prize relativity, because it was seen
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as being too contentious. He actually got it for the photoelectric effect. So what this is showing,
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that this is settled science. Now alongside all of this, over the last sort of 20 years, perhaps
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a little more, but certainly in the last few years, we've had more and more and more evidence
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at all scales of existence across numerous fields of research that are all showing the same thing,
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that our universe essentially meaningfully exists, and purposefully evolves, as a non-local
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unitive entity. What is really important, I think, the scientist to have been struggling with this,
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because I think most cosmologists are sort of pretty much over the bridge now, because they realize
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that we cannot understand the appearance of our universe, its energy matter, and space time.
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From that level, we have to go deeper. So just as science has always done, we've
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it includes and transcends. Just as quantum physics did to Newtonian physics and relativity
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physics did, it included and transcended. We're now in a place of inclusion and transcendence,
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but we can only do that by realizing that mind and consciousness, like the Vedic tradition
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showed us, aren't something we have, than what we in the whole world are. So we're now at this point,
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where we can expand our perception in an incredible way that goes way beyond science,
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and it's still accessible to science, because the reason we're able to go to this place,
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and I could write the cosmic hologram, is that all the evidence was showing that if we look deeper,
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beneath the appearance of our universe, we start getting answers to how that appearance comes about,
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but for me more importantly, and going back to my lifelong journey, we also have a deeper understanding
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of why our universe is, as it is. Well, that was profound, and thank you so much for sharing that.
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I think that's a great segue into a bit more of the meeting potatoes here of the mechanism
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and jumping into some of these different aspects of your work that you pointed out. One of the things
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is speaking of entanglement, and I think there's a big bridge when we're talking about,
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number one is going to be wave function collapse, and then we have, as you said, really coming to
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grips with what entanglement means. We can measure it, we can understand it, we can give a Nobel prize,
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but then there's that next step of, okay, so what does this actually implicate here?
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I think what's really interesting as you pointed out is it works on macroscopic scales.
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We have, I think, things as large as diamond studs that we are able to actually entangle.
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So, what are the implications of entanglement on a macroscopic scale?
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Okay, well, absolutely. I mean, certainly at the level of organic molecules, we can entangle those
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now, but the experiment that I mentioned in 2018 was only entangling photons, but it was doing it
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at cosmological scales. In other words, there was, there was sort of photons of light in laboratory
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that were then entangled with starlight coming down a telescope, but emanated 600 light years away,
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but the whole, what's called a cascade of entanglement, which far surpasses something called the
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Bell's limit, and the Bell's theorem was way back a recognition of the need for universal
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eye-hold universe needed to be entangled for quantum mechanics to work at all, because that cascade,
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which passed all of the thresholds, was triggered by light from a quasar 12.2 billion light years ago.
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That was so beyond any dispute that, you know, what we're talking about is universal,
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non-locality is universal entanglement. The issue was for a long time, the fact that it seemed to
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be odds with what relativity was saying. And we can understand now that it's the both and, but we can
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only do that by bringing in recent understanding about what we'll continue to talk about, I'm sure,
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the holographic principle and other aspects of this whole model that we can realise it's the both
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and. So that our universe exists and evolves as a unitive as a non-local, the whole entity.
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So it knows itself. It has spontaneous, not knowingness of its entirety in every moment from its
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beginning, 13.8 billion years ago, as space has expanded ever since and as times flowed forward ever since,
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it knows itself in its wholeness. And yet within space time, there is a cosmic speed limit,
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which is a speed of light. And that has to be the case, otherwise, first of all, there wouldn't be
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that flow of time. Secondly, there wouldn't be the causality that enables our universe to evolve.
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And so thirdly, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And there's a lot of reasons why the laws
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of physics require this. But this was the big issue because Einstein was very unhappy with the idea
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of universal entanglement, he called it spooky action at a distance. He realised that there was a limit,
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a finite limit to signals within space time. What he wasn't able to understand and know with the
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quantum physicists of those times that it's a both and the wholeness of the universe and yet within it
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learns about itself because of that innate flow of time, a causality that is
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journeying through its entire evolutionary journey. Absolutely. And I would curious as well as a
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more targeted question to because if we have entanglement at macroscopic scales and that's been
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empirically shown, how can we also simultaneously not have information transfer faster than the speed
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of light? It's really you need the holographic principle to start to understand that. And the holographic
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principle came about from studies on black holes. And the question was at the end of a massive star's
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life when it's run out of its nuclear fuel, which was actually stabilising it, its outward pressure
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was stabilising it when that fuels used up the star collapses. Now if you're a small,
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medium sized star, you just keep on going to be a white dwarf or whatever. But if you're a massive
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star, then the forces are too strong, the gravitational collapses too strong to stop it. So the star
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collapses and it does so three-dimensionally, it does so spherically. So spherical start begin with,
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it falls in on itself, but a point comes where it passes a threshold, where not even light can
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escape and so it becomes what's called a black hole. Now the question then is what about all the
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information that was telling the story of that star, where does that go? Because if it disappears,
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then quantum mechanics is out the window. It doesn't work, it just out the window. So there was a big
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who are about well what does happen and it was discovered that the information is actually held on
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that event horizon. Now this is where it gets a lot of fun because you'd think that all the
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information of that three-dimensional spherical star would be proportional to its volume. So the
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volume of the black hole would actually measure of the information that's retained, but it's not.
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It's proportional to the surface area of that star, which is the spherical event horizon.
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Now when that was realised and there's a measure of that called the Beckenstein bound and all
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sorts of stuff, when that was realised there was an a-ha moment because that's what a hologram does
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when you shine a beam of light at an object, a 3D object, well you split the beam and part of that beam
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then reflects back off of that object, it brings back the 3D info of that object. When it's mixed with
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the beam of the original beam of light, it then forms a two-dimensional patterning of that information
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and then when you shine another beam of light through it, it projects a hologram, which is the three
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dimensional appearance of that original object. Cosmologists realised we could expand and there
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are lots of other reasons for saying this is heading in the right direction. We can expand that
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understanding to a holographic principle, which is a universal principle, that our entire universe,
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the appearance of our entire universe is a holographic projection from the boundary of what we call
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space and time. So here we are, a universe that begins in its most minute form nearly 14 billion years ago,
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as simple as it could be but no simpler, and then a space has expanded ever since and times flowed
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forward and we can talk about how that happens, but basically there's more and more and more and more
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information able to be expressed within what we call space time and manifested as what we call energy
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matter. There are multiple directions I would love to take and several different questions pop
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it up in my head, but I think the first one I feel that everyone probably will ask is how do we make
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sense of physicality, given that we are in a holographic universe where information is fundamental
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as you pause it. What's the translation from information into physical reality, quote-unquote,
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in asterisk? I recall as well you mentioning that information is material and energy matter
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is immaterial if I have that correct. It's more than it's both and our definition of materiality,
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of course, as you say, is being based on what's physical. When we're sitting in our chairs, we're not
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falling through our chairs, occasionally I do. I'm really good at falling off chairs.
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What I would say is our universe, its manifestation, is real. That is real. But when we talk about
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physicality, we're talking about solidity. That's our perception of physicality. We're solid. I can
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do this and this and all the rest of it. When we go smaller and smaller and smaller, we've realised
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a long time ago that atoms are the sort of little billiard balls of electrons and new trans and
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protons and beneath that quarks. What they are are relationships of fields, quantum fields,
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and we're now restating those quantum fields in informational terms. But the reason that reality
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appears solid is that part of quantum mechanics is that those individual, so standing waves of
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those interactions cannot occupy the same quantum state at the same time. And so when we have
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electrons, they can't occupy the same state at the same time. So there's appearance of separation.
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Add it to which the electrons that whizz around the nuclei of atoms or the interactions and
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the relationships that we perceive in that way have the same charge and the laws of electromagnetism
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say that like charges repel. So we have two aspects. We have what's called the Fermi Exclusion
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Principle, which says that quantum entities, certainly those that make up atoms, there are other types
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that can occupy the same quantum states. Those that make up what we call normal matter can't occupy
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the same quantum states at the same time. That's why we get the appearance of separation of physicality.
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And I'm not for a moment saying that because our universe is a cosmic hologram that it's no
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less real, it's just the way in which universal genius cosmic mind can create such a universe.
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So in essence, I would or you would say that it has to do largely or mostly with the
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these it was poly exclusion principle or with with sorry, I do apologize. It was the
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poly exclusion principle. I've had a long day. I polish. I don't mean to correct you. I'm just
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talking about the same thing. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. That's a personal shock for myself.
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So really we're really just physically repelling because we can't occupy the same state. It's more of an
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electromagnetism if you will. It's about it's about and because obviously like charges also repels.
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All the laws of physics are just so exquisitely relational and perfect to actually enable a universe
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of quantized energy matter. And I would say non-quantized but in tropic space time that both are needed
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and all the laws are needed to enable our universe to meaningful exist and purposefully evolve.
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Sure. So I think this is a good segue to into the big one which is wave function collapse because we have
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objective collapse. We have pilot wave theory. We have quantum Bayesianism. We have the
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traditional Copenhagen interpretation. So I would love to kind of dive in there in informational
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terms and holographic terms. How do you perceive wave function collapse? Is there a thing out there
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and as you mentioned does the tree fall? It doesn't make a sound if no one there is there to hear it?
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Type of thought process. What's your general perspective in this framework on wave function collapse?
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Well what I would say is a go back to that analogy of if a tree falls in a forest and there's nobody
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there to see it does it actually fall. I would invite us to consider our entire universe is both the
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observer and the observed that our entire universe is essentially a friend of my as a guy called
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Max Velmann. He calls it reflective monism. So in other words the entire universe is aware of all
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that is happening at all times and then the individuated self-awareness that includes us is aware
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of different aspects of that and yet we are part of we are microcosmic co-creators of the entire
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universe. So that's also why we are naturally enabled with noetic phenomena, noetic experiences
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because we are like cells in our universe as body. So when our universe which which continually
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exists and evolves as a unit of entity the wave forms is its potentiality.
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The wave form collapse which occurs at all scales not just you know minute scales not just it
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is an ongoing Planck scale upwards phenomena that actually is the entire universe
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existing in its in its existential entirety. So there's no there's no sort of separate
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wave form there's differentiated there's differentiated wave form collapse as part of a whole sort of
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bow wave of the universe's ongoing progression from past into the present and potentizing the future.
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You know when you've seen a ship go across a lake there's a bow wave in front of it that's the best
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understanding I think we have at the moment that there is that potentizing that plays out at all scales
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within the wholeness of that universal progression that then comes into the particularization
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of the here and the now. So it's in the bow wave analogy is it something to where we it's sort of
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a universal phenomena that is sort of collapsing reality as we know it or do we have some level of
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entanglement with that whatever what what is a measurement you know what what is this process of going
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from infinite possibilities to quantization. Well first of all there's no infinities within space time.
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Our universe itself is finite it began to find out time ago there is no manifestation
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within space time that is infinite I mean that if you remember was what opened the door to quantum
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physics because the 19th century view of electromagnetism on a black body radiator would actually
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have infinite wavelengths. And clearly that's not the case. And that would lead to the the quantization
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of energy matter that then you know realize that there was finiteness everything we actually see
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a measure within space time is essentially finite. But what we're saying is with the hologram before
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that fine find outness comes into its manifested form which it does so in each plank moment
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from the beginning of our universe all the way through is like a shutter speed of our universe
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and it's a shutter speed of 10 to the minus 44 seconds extraordinary. But it together with
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the expansion of space and the Planck scale pixelation of information which itself is minute at minus
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35 meters 10 to the minus 35 meters what you get is this potentiality to then manifest in the
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appearance of what we call our universe but it does so finitely and the measuring point is how we
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measure and that's in a sense it's not a paradox I talk about parallax because in in physics as you
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know parallax is looking at things from a different perspective. So if we look at a particular experiment
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and measure it from a particular point of parallax we'll get a particle if we measure it from a
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different perspective and parallax will get away potentially but it's both and because ultimately
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the universe is both and. One last question I have on this topic before I'm
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transitioned to others just to make the best use of your time here because there's so much I want
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to cover in this time here but the last thing is I was personally curious what is the key
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difference between pixelation and quantization because I recall you mentioning yeah go ahead yeah yeah
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well pixelation I mean the screen that we're you know conversing through is pixelated it's high
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definition pixelation okay but nonetheless that the screen has has tiny sort of little areas with
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different information within it that makes up the photo of of us yeah that's pixelation.
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Quantization is where there's a quantum is is packet so within energy matter all energy matter
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is quantized in other words it occurs as packets of information rather that notes of music rather
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the continuous continuation it's literally quantized in packets and that is why and how
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you know the materiality of our universe can express itself yeah and it does so very beautifully because
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of that so the pixelation of the entirety of the appearance of our universe is pixelated at the
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Planck scale and when we scale that pixelation is all the information of our universe and it's
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expressed in complementary ways as quantized energy matter but it's also expressed as this ongoing
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journey of space and time hence the whole evolutionary story and space time I would argue is not
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quantized but all of the appearance comes from this tiny minute pixelation of all the meaningful
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information that expresses itself in our universe and that pixelation if we look at our high definition
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that pixelation scale is trillions of trillions trillions times smaller than our best HD technology
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at the moment it's as literally as small as to an atom as an atomist of the whole universe so the way
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our universe exists and evolves it requires these different yet complementary ways of expressing
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its universal information as quantized energy matter which enables our universe to exist
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and express itself and it's conserved and it changes but it can't be created or destroyed so
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it just changes and then is as what I call intropic space time whereas space expands and as time
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is flowed from the beginning what I call entropy which is the informational content of our universe
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always increases that enables our universe to evolve so quantized energy matter and intropic
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space time are complementary they come together to enable our universe both to exist and to evolve you
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need both. That's a wonderful bridge into time so I'd love to just kind of open the can on this one
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about really the paradigm shift of seeing reality number one as finite potentially even
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toroidal which is not an aspect of what you mentioned but as this perhaps information bubble that
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that through experience and through its evolution which we are in and also co-creating
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the flow of time itself is literally the entropy of information all the way back from the big breath
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and I'd love for you to just kind of lay some fundamentals for you know what is time
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well thank I think you've expressed it beautifully Jared when we go back to the beginning of our
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universe which is finite time ago it came into being at its at its smallest state but also its
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simplest state now the second law of thermodynamics says that the going back to 19th century that the
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entropy which is the energetic micro states of a a container system can only increase through time
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okay so if we go back to the beginning of our universe it was at its lowest entropy so time could
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only go one way from that beginning and that way is from the past all the way through to the present
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and then to unfold into the future but what I've done is I've expanded those three laws and there are
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three laws of thermodynamics to three laws of information or info dynamics and when we do that we
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realise why we need three laws and we also realise that if the first law which in that thermodynamics
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talks about the energy of a container system can change through time but it can't be created or
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destroyed apply that to our universe it applies to the quantized energy matter which says the
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information expressed as quantized energy matter can only change through this whole process it
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can't be created and destroyed enabling our universe to exist but then you get to time and you get
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to the second law and you get to expanding entropy and the second law of thermodynamics was all
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about in 19th century about entropy it said that the entropy of a container system can only increase
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through time so to talk about our universe entropy is about energetic micro states but going back to
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a point you made earlier information is as physical as energy and we can expand as we've done the
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first law into information as energy matter but we can expand energetic micro states to
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information content and it's the same equation it's the same Boltzmann's equation so what we can say
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is the entropy i-entropy information content of our universe began at its lowest level so as time
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is vote forward and a space is expanded ever since that information that entropy has increased and
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that enables with that flow of time in the expansion of space for the holographic
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nature of our universe to manifest more and more experience and i'll just because for me it's a
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cherry on top of the icing on top of the cake the third law the third law of thermodynamics says
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that the temperature of a container system like our universe is inversely proportional to its
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entropy so i would say inversely proportional to its entropy our universe came into being
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in its lowest entropy its lowest entropy its highest temperature so space has expanded ever since
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temperatures dropped as time floats forward ever since entropy has increased so it's as beautiful
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reciprocosity that really has driven the universal life cycle and now we're you know it began at 10
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to the 32 degrees Kelvin we're now at 2.7 three degrees Kelvin i would suggest that that means we're
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closer to the end of this thought bubble i love what you how you described it this thought bubble
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of our universe um you know to its completion and i also love that you refer to the big breath because
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our universe did not begin in the chaos or the implied chaos that we were taught was the big bang
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we know it wasn't big but it wasn't chaotic it wasn't a bang and you refer to it and i call it to
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the first moment an ongoing big breath exquisite fine tune wonderfully ordered
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purposeful meaningful that's so beautiful and i i'm curious if i i feel like this is something that
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that you pause it as well in the book it is our universe our finite universe one thought bubble
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in an infinite plenium of thought bubbles it where it completes the temperature drops the
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the entropy is maximized of information there's there's no further complexity to be had
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and and then from there it is perhaps you know released into the cosmic plenium is this
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is this what you'd perceive the process is on the highest level yeah i do i do and and then you ask
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well where did the baby universe has come from right and one of the the the the the i believe is
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that the most intriguing suggestions with this is an extension to general relativity which is called
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ecks which stands for Einstein carton kibble shama extension and denny shama who was
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Stephen Hawking's mentor for his PhD was my mentor at Oxford oh wow and denny's love mavericks
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i hope you're very proud of me by now um but it's an extension whereby it's very very complex
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but in in really extreme cases at the very heart of black holes and possibly over and even
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supermassive black holes there's an extension to general relativity which has a
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terrible effect it's like a screwing effect and it may be that that is the origin of baby universes
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that bring with them some of the past story some of the this because our universe is so exquisitely
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fine tuned it does suggest it's not the first it's not its first radeo as our american friends say
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but there is a sense of of heritage and almost like a reincarnation of complex a potential for greater
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complexity that we could actually consider the possibility of being on on universal scales
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even like cosmic epigenetics if you will yeah because i love that cosmic epigenetics and you know
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my my follow on book from the cosmic hologram was this was the story of gaiya and that really
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tells this story the whole evolutionary story of ours and and our story is a story of our universe
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so you know that story i i feel is so empowering because we can read where people who i hope read the
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cut read you know the story of gaiya really feel come to feel that we belong this is we belong here
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we have meaning of purpose i was profoundly shifted by that section of of at least the cosmic hologram
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with the fine tuning i mean talk about mind blowing the different uh principles and and like the
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different forces that are so unbelievably fine tuned to allow even different elements to emerge and
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and i'd love for you to sit touch on just the the sheer fine tuning of the reality in which we
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live in the the utter impossibility of of randomness of of of what the beauty of this cosmos is
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absolutely well you know there are various measures of this there are there around six fundamental
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universal constants a martin reese who has um has done a book on this called six numbers basically
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but when you look at those and and see what would be different if any of them were as tiny
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stage different from what they actually are and it works out something like one intent to the 27
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i think Lee Smolian came up with that figure but it's a thousand trillion trillion times one two
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a thousand trillion i mean it as you say it it is my problem but but when you look at the laws of physics
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i mean if you don't understand that mind and consciousness are what we have they're literally
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what we in the whole world are quanta physics is a mystery but when you do understand that it's a way
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in which the potentiality of consciousness can express itself and manifest itself it is very
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straightforward and what we find as well in the basic laws of physics they are incredibly simple
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e equals mc squared e equals h new you know um gravity f equals gm1m2 over r squared these are not
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wrath of equations they're very incredibly simple on the reason that they are so simple able to
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be so simple is because that exquisite fine tuning you know with electromagnetism we've now
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measured space to be pretty it has to be flat because first of all otherwise electron magnetism
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could not work in its orthogonality in other words a magnetic field goes one way the electromagnetic
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field is 90 degrees to it and the light goes 90 degrees to that exactly not a bit of a fudge
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when we are taught geometry at school we learn Pythagoras we learn about triangle
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and we learn about the 180 degrees and we learn about you know the relationships between the
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sides of triangles there's a very straightforward way of taking you you know that that space
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euclidean space of a triangle with 180 degrees which is on flat paper because if we curve the paper
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a triangle has more or less than 180 degrees but on flat paper a triangle has eternal angles
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the total 180 degrees there's a way of moving that into what's called Hilbert space which is a sort
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of slightly more sophisticated way of working with space to understand the relationships of energy
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matter and you can go from Pythagoras to Einstein equals mc squared e equals mc squared only
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if space is flat only if space is flat and the final thing and this is the big give away as
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well is throughout quantum mechanics and also relativity but quantum mechanics is the biggie
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Schrodinger wave equation and all of the equations are pervaded by and holographic
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principle is pervaded by something called i the square root of minus one and that we're realizing
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there's not just a mathematical nicety it really is the foundation between the appearance of what we
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call our universe and it's underlying causation it's causing they literally it arises from what some
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folks call phase space but that is that non yet manifest you're talking earlier not yet manifest
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realms of causation that then come into the manifest universe and so i the square root of minus one
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is that sort of mathematical mode by which that transfer that that progression from what we
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might call immaterial to material actually takes place so all of these hand together beautifully
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but only if you know if they share all of these features wow and that's a perfect segue to the idea
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fractals which i have been very excited to talk about but in terms of the in terms of the the complex
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plane and you pointed out the Schrodinger wave function should go on infinitely but we know the
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universe is finite also from looking at the cosmic microwave background there is a limit on on the
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wavelengths as you pointed out absolutely no there there is a finiteness to it but yet obviously
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that's not what we experience in finite reality so there's that there's that translation from the
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complex you know as you said the potentiality the immaterial or super physical to the you know
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physical always an asterisk but exactly and that yeah ultimately the infinite is an eternal cosmic
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plenum to that finiteness of this thought bubble we call our universe i love that and and so
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when it comes to fractals one thing i was wondering about is the law of attraction because as you
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talk about fractal attractors and and and even pre cognition and super normal phenomena
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of sort of being able to non locally perceive information as it's sort of crystallizing perhaps
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in the complex plane you know before it becomes an act potentializes into physical reality do you
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do you think there's any connection there between the law of attraction and and kind of what you
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put out and how you're able to actually crystallize and potentiate into reality i would and i wouldn't
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sort of oversell it either i mean the laws of physics are the laws of physics i might have the
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intention that i'm going to become the hang gliding champion of the world it ain't going to happen
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Jared i have to tell you this but yes indeed because we are microcosmic co-creators of the macrophosmic
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sentence of our universe and therefore we do have naturally natural attributes of of awareness
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that are non local in in that regard but just to go back to your point on fractals for those folks
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who are listening to us and aren't sure what a fractal is it's basically a relationship
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and in the ancient Greek geometers were were wonderful in the fact they had something to write with
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and something to create a straight line with and they included profound truths about the innate
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relationships of our world and so when we look at the platonic solids and when we look that they're
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essentially idealized fractals and fractals are realistic platonic solids in that regard in other
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words when we look at a cloud we're not seeing a triangle but if we actually analyze the outline of a cloud
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you know it we can actually subdivide triangles into more and more and more and more and more detail
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and and they are fractals or we can take fractals to their end point idealism and we end up with
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with a triangle I mean that's very straightforward but what it's showing is that the entire to our
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universe plays out through innately through relationships and interdependent relationships and the
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point about a fractal just as it does for a triangle it scales up and it scales down so when we
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when we when we look at the evidence of the cosmic hologram we see it all scales of existence because
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we're seeing fractals at all scales of existence when a metal atom is moving to become an insulator
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vice versa it's electrons cluster fractally we can see fractals all the way up to planetary systems
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we see them in the solar wind and and and planetary orbits we see them galactically we see the same
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fractal relationships as you mentioned in the cosmic microwave background in the temperature
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differences there so we're seeing them all the way up and all the way down and they are indicative
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also of of Fourier transforms and Fourier transforms are a mathematical bridge that actually
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underpins the holographic technologies so we're seeing so many things pointing in the same direction
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and across numerous fields of research so underlying complex systems whether it be the an ecosystem
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or the internet are the same fractal patterns we're seeing the same power law relationships between
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frequencies of phenomena and and their scale that we do earthquakes and conflicts and human conflicts
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so what we're seeing throughout not just natural systems but human choices collective human
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choice and behaviors is this underlying causation and the all pervasiveness of consciousness
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so going back to the law of attraction we're essentially playing out conflicts in the world
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because we have a world of your separation collectively we have a dis-ease of separation
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we can create if we've got a tractor pattern and the laws of attraction in that sense
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or we're behaving in conflictual ways in in equitable ways we can create a tractor pattern
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for love and a tractor pattern for peace
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so that for me is our choice now do we stay in this old world of your separation
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a fully-to-fear or do we as I truly believe we have the capacity to and the invitation from the
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universe to literally paint a love and undertake a conscious evolution that I feel is our opportunity
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our invitation and the reason we're here
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absolutely and and people just like you are providing the evidence so we can all really see I think
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through the rational mind I think is really the key I think that's what's going to make this so
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accessible is even talking about fractals I mean that's a slam dunk to holographic principle I mean
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it's self-similar I mean the hole is contained in the part and the the the the the fractality of
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reality is so obvious just from the evidence that you've put forward alone and I had one other
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question to follow that up here is you know what does this say about free will and more specifically
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with Benford's law and Zipz Zipz law where we have fractal patterns for I wrote a few things here
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such as Twitter users to follow a ratio street addresses corporate sales versus costs stock prices
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population densities galaxy formations and even to the words we say follow these numerical patterns
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and it it almost feels like one big mind like playing itself out but you know what does that say
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about free will fits that codeable our behavior through the internet through stock markets whatever it
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might be you know what what is that indicate about our individual choice I I'm a I'm a it's
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interesting I'm a both-and person whenever it's an either raw choice I go what am I missing here
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and just as now we can say that you know relativity physics and quantum physics a complementary
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energy match and space time a conflict we need both and I would say that collectively all our choices
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together form Zipz law they form all of the the the the the phenomena that you identified
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but the entirety of our universe the holds and this is the beauty of it is each is also playing
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out through each of us and so in that sense I do fit my view is that we do have free will but not in
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the complete sense of being separable we are inseparable and yet we are unique expressions
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and we are self-aware individuated microcosmic co-creators yeah but when we come together
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then that totality because we're working at so many levels of consciousness Jared
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and when we talk about free will it's not just the level that we're aware of it's that subliminal level
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so a lot of our choices are also that subliminal level and I think it's primarily those choices
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that we can we can see playing out in these collectives so I think it's a both-and the question I would
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say is a question I would ask is what are we choosing at the moment are we choosing fear or are we
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choosing love and I would suggest that we have a free will choice in that regard and on a personal
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level I choose love I would also say that the evidence we have because of its wholeness and its
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inseparability and yet its differentiation and its meaning existential meaning and evolution
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purpose is I describe our universe not just as a living universe but as a loving universe
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I love that and I think that's that's a lovely way to conclude our conversation and before we do so
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because I know we're coming up on time here is I would love to give the audience just a couple
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minutes here if you want to share where they can find you such as maybe a couple of your books
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maybe if you have a website you want to share and I'll drop everything in the description as well
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oh that's so kind of you I think the easiest thing is just to offer a website which is www
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whole whle world wrld hyphen-viewvew.org and on that we've got links to my books we've got lots and
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lots of free resources around everything and new latives science and all of this we've also got a
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00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:39,520
link to a recent film which is called a radical guy to reality which is 14 minutes long it's free
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to view and free to share on youtube and it's in 19 languages at the moment from Arabic to Ukrainian
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and we're just adding another one Bengali so and more so but you know and we also on the website
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we have an education wraparound so glossary of terms and things like that and invited
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experiences so there's a whole range to an invitation to cup home and come to this adventure
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that's so amazing thank you so much dude for for all of your wisdom and your time today
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it's been an absolute pleasure and maybe perhaps need a round two because I still have a lot of
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questions but I would love round two I would love round two and maybe on round two we could talk about
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the story of Gaia because when we talk about the evolutionary story I mean you talked about blowing
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a mind my goodness me that takes it to a whole next level yes I would love to and talk about
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pan spermia and all and all of that stuff so all of that stuff yes awesome jude we'll talk offline
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about that I want to get you on to your next next meeting here but thank you so much again jude and
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have a fantastic rest of your day oh bless you jara thank you so so much for there all right take
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care bye bye add to bye bye thank you for tuning into this episode of the quantum theory podcast if
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you desire to embark on the path of self mastery visit quantum theory podcast dot com the
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00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:16,800
join a like-minded community of purpose seekers committed to personal growth.