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You're listening to the Spindle on Waste Oids.
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On Waste Oids.
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Hello everybody.
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It's the Spindle Podcast with Mark and John.
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Welcome to the Spindle, a podcast about seven-inch records.
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I'm Mark.
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I'm John.
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And in each episode, we talk about one seven-inch record and hopefully give you some insight into it that you haven't heard before.
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We both got into music in the 80s and 90s when 7 inches were super important, especially on independent labels.
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So that's the era we mostly draw from, but we sometimes pick some stuff earlier or later than that, too.
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And either way, we try to keep it short and to the point, just like seven inches do.
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So on this episode, we are going to talk about the Screaming Trees Double 7 Inch, Change Has Come Backed with Days, and Time Speaks Its Golden Tongue backed with Flashes.
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This was released on Sub Pop Records in Seattle in 1989.
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Seattle, the town that Screaming Trees were from.
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I think it's their only record they actually ever did on Sub Pop.
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And I am not sure when or where the songs are recorded, but the first seven-inch is produced by Jack and Dino, and the second by Steve Fisk.
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So, and those guys both had studios of their own, I'm pretty sure.
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So I imagine they were recorded at those studios.
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The band lined up at this point was Mark Lanigan on vocals, Gary Lee Connor on guitar, and Trumpet on a couple, I think one track here, Van Connor, his brother on bass, and Mark Pickerill on drums.
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This is their third single.
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If you count the collaboration with Beat Happening that came out the year before as one, this would be their third single.
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And they already had four albums out, uh, three of which were on SST.
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And one of the interesting things about this Double 7-inch is it's like it's like the gap between when they were on SST and when they got onto a major label, got onto Epic Records.
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And in a way, it's kind of it kind of musically sort of a midpoint too.
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There's a lot of what they did before that you can hear on this, but there's also sort of what would come after that you can hear on as well.
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And um, it's four just really awesome Screaming Tree songs, basically.
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Um possibly the some of the best Screaming Tree songs.
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Yeah, I think it's great.
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And that's I to me it's their pinnacle, and I don't mean that in a dismissive way.
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I think it just really all kind of comes together on on that particular on this particular record for sure.
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Uh it just it it's the best combination of kind of their garagey sort of psychedelic thing.
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The songs all hit, like they, you know, some of their songs are good, some of them are songs, you know, on the albums.
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Although I I generally think their hit rate's pretty good.
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It they definitely have a tone they they kind of work through that can get maybe a little samey sometimes.
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Uh, but this song, this this record, they all have pretty good hit because I particularly like Days.
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I think that's a really cool song.
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And I like Time Speaks or Golden Tongue.
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I think that one's good.
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There aren't huge differences between the Andino production and the uh Fisk production, but there are little ones, you know, like the Fisk stuff sounds a little more garagey, almost a little more 60s-ish in its in a way.
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The drums slightly more natural sound, whereas with Andino, you can definitely hear that Proto Grunge drum sound and uh arena rock kind of punch, just in his way, not in a sell-out way or anything.
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Right, right.
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Just the kind of thing that he was coining at the time, basically.
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Right.
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Yeah, I think it I think the point you make about their albums is pretty interesting too, because I I like all the SST records, I think, especially Invisible Lantern, I think is an amazing record.
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But they they do all have spots where they're like, okay, this isn't as good as the last song or or as as the song.
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It's almost like they almost were able to to mix songs in a way so that you could be okay with a song that wasn't as good because it got them to another place on the record.
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Whereas with this here, it's called like it's just bang bang.
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They don't need to do this kind of like, well, this could be a transitional track between these two or whatever.
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They're just hit they're just hitting on each song because there's only four songs in.
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Sure, right.
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That makes sense.
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And and also it's a band that obviously at that point only really had one songwriter.
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So you don't have a multiplicity of voices.
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Uh I think I read that Lanigan really didn't start writing until after Uncle Anesthesia, which is the album after this.
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Like Sweet Oblivion is when he started contributing stuff.
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So all of this is, I'm pretty sure, Lee Connor.
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And it's very much in that updated psychedelic way.
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Uh he was I was reading an interview with him where he said that in his mind they were gonna be a 60s garage remage band.
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Like that was his idea.
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And he said, if you look at I was reading, he pointed at the pic like he points out in the picture, one of their first pictures, you can see he's got like bangs and these round glasses, he's wearing this like paisley shirt.
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He's like, but nobody else wanted to do it.
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So we we became this thing.
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Um but that was I remember when they first popped up, that was a big part of it is they did kind of that forced them to find a cool new way to sort of sound psychedelic without just sounding like the Paisley Underground bands from LA or something like that.
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It really was kind of a different vibe that they they got like a heavier vibe with it that was pretty unique.
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And it wasn't just Lanigan singing, it was like the whole package was a little bit different while at the same time still obviously being derived from the garage psychedelic stuff.
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They're very acid-y, I don't know how much acid most of those guys take.
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Lanigan probably took a ton, but it's very, you know, it's very uh very acid y, very just knowingly psychedelic.
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I mean, you got the name, the screaming trees, you know.
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Like, I'm in the woods, man.
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I hear the trees, you know, fucking yeah.
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And it does definitely have that vibe drifting over it.
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Mm-hmm.
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Yeah, I mean, it's funny.
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If you I always kind of when I first heard them, I I had trouble placing, especially because they're in SST, which gave you a little expectation of punk, but SST at this point was already signing a diverse range of bands.
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So it wasn't necessarily a surprise that they didn't sound like other SST bands, but I still like I yeah, I wasn't exactly sure exactly what to place them in.
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Seattle, they they started putting out records before Seattle was happening.
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Oh, yeah, they're way.
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I mean, the first one, Clairvoyance, when I was I mean, I heard that at the radio station that when that came out.
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So they had the other thing is I don't know how they they got good distribution for that first record, which helped them, I think.
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They got into a lot of college radio stations, and there were some easy to play on the radio songs on that one, and that that led them to the SST stuff, which once they combine with SST, their records were just everywhere.
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Like it they you know, I don't know how much money they made, but they were probably, you know, they're getting a van and drive around famous for sure.
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Like they played all over the place and put out records and um good live band.
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Yeah, and it's and it's what you say about the garage thing really makes a lot of sense.
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I I kind of heard it then and I hear it even more now sometimes on those older records.
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Even on this record, so if you if if they were just you know slightly a little bit um more homagey, they could be like a get hit band or something.
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They could be they could be one of those like kind of uh retro-ish garage bands that were happening.
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Then there were a lot of good ones too, like crypt bands and stuff like that.
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Oh, yeah, well, I mean the fuzz tones and stuff like that.
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Absolutely.
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I think because of that, the songs aren't written very garagily, though.
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Like it's like there's a vibe to it, but the song there they don't really when I think about it, they don't have sort of a garagey kind of song.
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Sometimes they sound a bit like cream, maybe to me.
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Like there seems to be a bit of that with it, or some of the heavier power trio-y stuff.
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The who I think is an obvious thing with them.
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And the drumming in particular sounds very sometimes very Keith Moon informed to my ears.
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Um they don't really have that kind of hey, hey, let's you know, garage the the kind of uh upbeat, kind of like the garage thing, especially with Lanigan, where the vocal vocalist is often sort of like this ringleader of the people on the floor, whatever.
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That was not Lanigan's role.
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No, they're more blue cheers, blue cheer doors, dark, dark psych, I guess you'd call it.
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Yeah, and especially lyrically, too.
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I mean, all their lyrics have these kind of mythical, kind of mysterious, it's all shadows and and glass key dark yeah, dark places and sle sleep time and night and all that kind of stuff.
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But but in a in a way that's not like too cliche-y.
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I think I think it's it's there's consistency to what their lyrics are about, but it's I think they're pretty generally on this record at least, pretty good at uh painting some pictures without uh it sounding too kind of stock.
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Right.
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Well, I mean, I think that's always probably with Lanigan's well, so he would he would change lyrics too, I think.
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Like he would get a hold of lyrics and rewrite them and things like that.
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They aren't, I mean, I'm reading them now.
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They're they're actually cool, and I love Screaming Trees Don't Diminish it at all.
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They're not the most mature like kind of lyrics in a way, like they are kind of like an idea of what lyrics are, you know, in a way.
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Like they remind me a little bit of um Oasis lyrics in some ways.
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Well, that's good though.
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That's a slight that's a side conversation we'll have some other time.
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So I'm tweeting here, but uh no, but but no, uh I mean that sincerely though.
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I'm not just trying to do that.
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Um I they do kind of remind me of that, and I guess if people do like and I think they're better than Oasis lyrics, but if people do like Oasis lyrics, they do kind of like that vaporous you can apply almost anything to them, right?
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You know, right, right, for sure.
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And and uh that's not necessarily a weakness because that gives a lot of different people away inside the songs, and they end up conveying a lot of emotional content between Landigan's voice and the sound of the band itself and the way it plays.
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Like just absolute mayhem.
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Just a sheet of freaking noise.
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Oh wow, that's cool.
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Yeah, I I I never was able to see them live.
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You saw them or I did, yes.
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I saw them uh in a frat house in Yale in an attic, and I don't know why they happened to play there.
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I they they should have probably been playing a bigger place, maybe it was a between gig.
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So it was them and fire hose, somebody else.
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And so Van Connor was sick or something like that, and so he didn't tour with them, and he was replaced with Donna Dresh, who went on to become sort of a well-known person, and and uh she was great, perfect for them because she's very energetic, and uh they were great to see just right in your face like that, because I'm just standing in front of Mark Lanigan, like, oh the drummer.
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Uh I like that drummer a lot, Mark Pickerel.
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I don't think they were quite as good after that guy left.
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And his drumming on this this e these E seven inches is particularly good.
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Uh he's got a little bit of flair, he's a little bit Keith Mooney, but he plainly kind of does his own thing with it.
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Like I'd call him another proto-grunge drummer, because he does predate that by quite a bit.
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And uh definitely combining 70s, 60s rock with uh say the whosker do kind of energy um is you know, he would have been pretty early with that kind of thing.
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And I thought yeah, I think he sounds great.
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He always really he really compliments them.
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They start to sound more like a professional rock band in a weird way, and I and uh when they have what's his name, Vera Martin in there, um, I don't think his playing has as much character.
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Yeah, I agree.
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I mean, I I like the records that came after this, the the especially the first two epic records, I think are good, but there's definitely a different vibe there.
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It's it's it's not necessarily glossier, but there's a smoother thing happening, and the this you can see them sort of pointing to what we're doing on this, but this still has the kind of uh edge that the previous albums had in a really good way.
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And I'd be curious, I'm surprised that they didn't actually take another take new stabs at these songs later, too.
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I'm glad they didn't, but it it seems like something they might have thought about doing.
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Yeah, I mean, subpop at the time, you know, at the time you would have thought, oh, it's selling fine.
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It's on subpop, you would not think it's would have been completely out of print for 30 years.
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Right.
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I don't think that was ever the intention in a weird way.
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So I don't know.
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Yeah, it's yeah, you still you can't, it's not on streaming services, it's not, it's impossible to you have to pay money for it.
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Yeah, I couldn't even to be honest, because you know, I I grab and if I don't have if I only have the seven inch, I try to grab MP3s to play when we're in in the podcast.
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And on this one, I couldn't even find a way to buy it.
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I had to go to an old blog that had posted it.
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Yeah, I had that for a long time, and then when I sold a bunch of CDs, you know, I'm like, ah, I can always get Screaming Tree stuff.
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Because I had both I had the double seven-inch original double seven inch at one point.
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Uh, but they add an extra, if you got the CD, there was like one more song.
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Well, right, right.
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Okay.
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So eventually I I got the CD, but yeah, stupidly I got rid of it because I'm like, it'll be Screaming Trees.
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You could find that shit anywhere.
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And uh that one in particular, which is my favorite, I no, you can't.
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Yeah, that's wild.
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The funny the the one of the interesting things here too, if like if your perspective on them is you learned about them in the grunge years when they had uh, you know, I guess they had like one hit or maybe two off of the major label records.
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And I think people thought of them as like, oh, they're part of that whole scene.
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Well, it didn't take that long to figure out that they had been around a lot longer than most of those bands.
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But also, I don't think even as as as they got a little slicker on the major labels, they never really they still sounded like themselves.
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They didn't it didn't seem like they ever kind of said we're gonna go with this and sound like the other bands that are happening now.
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No, and I I think they because they had the sound they did, it was pretty easy to just knock that into a kind of an arena kind of shape.
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It kind of works.
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It does, like you're saying, it doesn't really fundamentally alter them that much.
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Right.
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You know, because they already weren't like uh garage band.
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It was more of a a concept kind of thing, so it became pretty easy for them just to rock out, you know, just a little bit more, give it that little bit of arena flash and the heavier, slappier drums.
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So one thing we worth I think worth mentioned too here is how the this each track track has kind of a different thing going on.
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I mean, they're all very screaming trees songs, but I think like Time Speaks Your Golden Tongue is kind of slow-ish and more almost ballady, and Flashes is like a metal tune.
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Yeah, kind of Days is a big heavy rock song with trumpet at the end of it.
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Yep, yep.
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That trumpet is a good touch, too.
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Yeah, it is kind of good, yes.
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Generally, I'm not a fan of that idea, but it works out well there.
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But no, it actually it sounds pretty good there.
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It's interesting with them because I don't generally unless I until I sit and listen to the records, I you know, my my general like remo removed impression of them is that they weren't super diverse in their styles, but they actually kind of were.
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I mean, songs would be pretty different from song to song, but they they have this kind of overwhelming with the consistent guitar sound and with Blanagan's voice so distinct that everything Yeah, I don't think he he ever became the most dynamic singer, kind of like it's you know, it's he he has a couple different modes.
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I guess eventually he got a grizzled whispery kind of mode.
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Um, but but he's also it's an incredible voice, unforgettable.
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And plainly he knew how to to sing eventually, you know, really well.
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Um and he's strength of the band.
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But yeah, it's like it's not a lot of variants going on.
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But that's also typical of that time period with those records and those bands.
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A lot of them, you know, you have your thing, you're doing it and you just do it.
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Right.
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Um you're right though, you're right though, because that's what I was saying, is like instead of writing all these garagey songs, they just seem to go all over the map a little bit within that narrow frame of sounding like them.
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It's like they try a lot of different stuff uh within the hard rock framework, you know.
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Yeah, yeah, they do.
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I think it's almost it's uh it's almost easy to kind of miss that.
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It's almost like they're like deceptively diverse because every song is in, like you say, in a somewhat narrow range, but lots of differences from track to track, and uh you know, and I think it's not just especially in the songwriting because the guitar sound, I love his guitar sound, but again, he sort of like Lanigan was not did not play a lot of different but the structures the song structures and they were always usually about the same length and everything, but the what you know the the variance in terms of the the pacing and the way that they would put a song together from verse to chorus and stuff like that definitely could change.
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It changes on this record.
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Oh, yeah, yeah.
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I really like my favorite, I think, is even if in especially when I kind of like the crudeness of that one.
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I mean, I crude crude is the wrong word, but I just really like that.
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One seems a little raw in its way.
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Um uh Buzz Factory is kind of cool too.
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Like Buzz Factory's got that, and I think Andino did that one, and so it's like their first one that sounds kind of like a rockier record.
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:11.359
And that one's good.
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:14.079
That one's that one's got a lot of good tunes on it.
00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:21.519
Yeah, I always for some reason maybe it's just because I I I sort of first found out about around a misable lantern time, but that one has a a feel to me.
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:26.319
That's the one's kind of the most like murky-ish kind of it's it's that one's good.
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:27.599
That one I like that one a lot.
00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:28.799
Yeah, that one's good.
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:35.039
I I like all of those SSC ones and clairvoyance, which is the first one that came out, which is the first one I heard, uh, is good.
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:44.799
I got I got after clairvoyance, I I ended up hearing uh the first one, which I can't remember the name of right now, um, that is really good.
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.160
And that's probably the most garagey 60s-ish sounding one.
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:58.480
That's the one where it they actually do seem to be using 60s uh real 60s tropes, but so for some reason the songs are really catchy and uh there's a couple of really good songs on there.
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:14.960
They were I I don't know why at the time I probably would have associated them with the band like Plastic Land or something like that in a way, because they were so self-consciously 60s-ish, but they plainly grew just never really went like in that full direction and just start doing their own thing.
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:19.039
Well they're from the same kind of area that we talked about, the Melvins.
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:19.680
Right.
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:22.880
And so they're literally from the same kind of area.
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:24.319
Uh I think very close.
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:29.759
I read an interview with Mark Lanigan when he saw Nirvana play at the high school or something like that.
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:39.680
You know, they're from that same milieu and they're just trying to create their own thing, probably in a pretty tough landscape to do that in.
00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:40.319
Yeah.
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:45.839
And they're all they are quite a parallel to the Melvins because they they predate what happened grunge wise.
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:47.920
They kind of are godfathers of the scene.
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:49.599
But I I get the feeling that I don't know.
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:52.000
I mean, I guess Screaming Trees were influential on the other.
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.160
I mean, I co Cobain uh probably was influenced by them.
00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:59.839
But I have a feeling that Melvins were probably a bigger Oh, Melvin's way more influence.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.720
Influential band.
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:02.079
Like just right off the bat.
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.240
I think the screaming trees are just people dug them.
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:05.039
They sound great.
00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:06.799
You know, listen to that singer go.
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:11.519
Melvin's affec affected people on a psychological, philosophical, molecular level.
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:11.759
Right.
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.599
Like they made you think differently about what you might or might not do.
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:18.240
Whereas Screaming Trees just kind of were good.
00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:19.039
Kicked ass.
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:20.480
Came out there and kicked ass.
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:28.160
Whenever I try to think of exactly what their role is in that whole situation, it's really kind of odd.
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:36.559
In a weird way, they kind of completely separate from it because like because of the predating and because of the never really sounding like any other band there.
00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:44.960
And not being on subpop, like they put out their own records and then were on SST on a like long before.
00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:54.880
And the uh their drummer is a big networking, like I think he worked at Sub Pop, so Mark Pickerel is uh he's actually a Nexus for a lot of stuff.
00:23:55.039 --> 00:24:00.880
He's a more than just the drummer in Screaming Trees that he knows a lot of people and uh has worked on that scene quite a bit.
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:11.200
Yeah, and I mean we obviously part of the reason that we're talking about this this week is because Van, the bassist, uh Lee's brother, passed away recently, and then Lanigan passed away last year.
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:14.400
I think it hasn't even been a year since he passed away, right?
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:19.279
So um both pretty sad things, both too young to be dying.
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:21.920
Yeah, that's pretty that's pretty ridiculous.
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:23.519
I don't know what it really ever happened.
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:30.480
I know Lanigan was making music all the all along, but I guess they never really thought of I don't know, did they do any kind of reunion things?
00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:37.680
I never heard about they never got well, I mean, they never got along, so it probably was tough to even cook up reunion plans.
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:38.160
I don't know though.
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:46.559
I you know, they just they're weird on that edge where it's like people aren't begging for it because it's just screaming trees, you know.
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:59.119
But on the other hand, if they probably had done it, they probably would have garnered way more attention than they did the last time around if they'd have been able to get it together because they they would have probably sounded great, you know, same thing.
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.079
And then it would have had a little bit more of an impact now.
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:08.799
They also the part of it is that when they started getting that attention, they stopped for four years and didn't do anything.
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:16.000
So if they had put out a record somewhere in there, it we'd be talking about it's sort of a different career trajectory anyway.
00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:16.400
Right.
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:18.240
I mean, uh some reason it sort of makes sense.
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:32.480
They didn't seem like the kind of band that was built to like weather big storms, like they got a hit, sort of, then their next major label record wasn't quite as big, and then uh it didn't seem like the kind of band that was gonna be like, well, we're still gonna stick with this for another 20 years, although maybe it's just because if it's interpersonal.
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:36.960
I mean, Mud Honey did it, so it could have happened with Streamer Trees, they just couldn't get along, I guess.
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.279
Yeah, I mean, that seems to be a whole bunch of it.
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:40.960
Is like, do you want to spend time together?
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:42.400
That makes it easier to make music.
00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:49.519
So Mud Honey, plainly a big focus for them is getting along, like it's a priority, and that makes their art better.
00:25:49.839 --> 00:26:04.319
I think there's a mythology about you need that kind of fractiousness and stuff like that in order to make great art, and it's I think it's bullshit for the most part, because we've all had jobs, and we know there are very few jobs where everybody's at each other's throats and you're doing the best work you can do.
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:06.960
It's just not compatible with that.
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:17.359
And so usually the I would imagine the best bands are like any workplace, you know, where everybody knows their role and is fulfilling it, and that's what makes it great.
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:18.880
Yeah, no, there are ways to do it.
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:21.920
Everybody fighting and getting fucked up and stuff like that.
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:34.880
Like Oasis is one example, the Kings, another one where there was always a split in that band because Dave Davies is so fractious and kind of Ray is very withdrawn.
00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:45.200
Like he's not somebody who really likes to get involved in all that kind of drama, but he also knows he needs his brother in the band, and so there's this kind of mess that happens there.
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:51.359
Uh Oasis, they both seem like cement heads, so there's not a lot of logic going on there.
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:54.240
No, and so there's not a lot of logic going on there.
00:26:54.400 --> 00:26:59.440
But I don't know that I would consider that you know great art on the level of the Kings, for instance.
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:08.400
Like but and so these, well, I mean, these are battling brothers, these are apt comparisons because there was a lot of conflict also between Lee and Van.
00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:13.680
There are plenty of stories about the two of them fighting and Lanigan and Pickerel standing around watching them fight.
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:15.759
Like, I'm not getting in the middle of that.
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:16.240
Uh-huh.
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:23.119
And then there's stories about the whole band fighting other people they encounter on the street.
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:28.559
And so uh, you know, it's it's it's a it's a shame though, because they were really good.
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:42.400
And I so I also really kind of loved their their whole just the visual aspect of Lanigan, this tall guy with his long hair, kind of kind of the Jim Morrison-y kind of looking guy, and then these two guys, two brothers that almost look like twins.
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:58.480
He was fun to I didn't obviously only saw uh Lee, but he was a lot of fun to watch live because he just it was a little bit the D-booting thing where he's just flinging himself all over the place and there's a lot to fling around, very entertaining, guitar just everywhere all the time and stuff like that.
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:06.000
They were they definitely had their visual thing together in a weird way, and I I can't imagine it wasn't unconscious, you know.
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:30.559
It's like and and it was during that era where everybody was pro expected to provide interpretive dance with the music that they were doing, so they're supposed to flop around as much as possible and throw themselves around, and so it probably it did also look really good to have Lanigan not moving at all, and then the two people behind him going like crazy, you know, right, and that's a that also carries a lot of interest in its way.
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:31.359
Yeah, I agree.
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:34.319
I mean, I just think they they were one of the coolest looking bands in pictures.
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:39.119
There was this weird symmetry to them with the two brothers flanking Lanigan that always looked cool to me.
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:42.240
But it's it, you know, if you you gotta be visually arresting.
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:50.160
I mean, there is that definitely there's part of it, like that that component is something that people want to pretend like doesn't exist, especially the underground world and the indie world.
00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:54.720
It's like, ah, we're too integ too much integrity for us to put something out there like that.
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:55.039
Uh-huh.
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:57.920
It's like, no, I mean, like, people want to see that.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:02.480
Like that, that's another connection, that physical connection of performance and everything.
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:03.039
Yeah.
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:08.079
Yeah, especially back in the days when there wasn't that much media to peruse about bands.
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.440
Like, if you saw the picture of them on the back cover, that might be the only time you ever saw them.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:14.000
You'd look at it over and over.
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:14.319
Yeah.
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:20.319
You wouldn't see video, you'd have to go see them live or look at pictures and imagine what they were doing.
00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:22.400
Right, right, exactly, which was cool.
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:24.400
It was it was better.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:25.839
Exactly.
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:26.640
It was better.
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:27.759
Those are the good old days.
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:28.160
Come on.
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:30.799
No, no, but it's nothing's improved.
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:33.839
Nothing's improved.
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:36.880
That's the spindle's that's the spindle's motto.
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:38.400
Nothing's improved.
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:41.119
We're only getting worse, episode by episode.
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:42.240
Exactly.
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:44.559
Don't expect us to improve when no one else ever has.
00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:46.000
Why should we?
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:52.319
Well, uh, this has been uh uh different than I expected, but I'm I've been enjoying it.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:55.200
This is a great record, and I'm glad we talked about this.
00:29:55.359 --> 00:30:02.400
Is the two two straight episodes of Seattle band, great Seattle bands, which is awesome, but maybe we'll uh not be Seattle next time.
00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:05.359
But definitely if you've never heard Screaming Trees, this is a good place to start.
00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:12.559
Well, it's kind of it's it is obviously we did this because of the ban dying.
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:20.960
And it is kind of a bummer that we're getting to that age where now we've had how many of these memorial ones almost in a row?
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:25.119
Yeah, and it's like kind of a bummer.
00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:28.640
Uh, but it is also a function of aging and nostalgia.
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:45.519
Now we're looking back, you know, nostalgia, and so this is the this is the bittersweet tang of nostalgia, finishing with the idea that this person that represented something in our youth is now gone, and all we can do is sort of look at these records and be like, ooh, that was a long time ago.
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:48.400
Yeah, and also just be so happy that they did this.
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:56.480
And you know, when it when it's happening at the time, you don't really necessarily know what it's gonna mean to you later, but really glad that they made this band and that they made these records.
00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:56.960
I mean, all this.
00:30:57.359 --> 00:30:58.960
It got preserved, yeah, for sure.
00:30:59.279 --> 00:30:59.839
It's great.
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:11.680
And uh yeah, and that whole Seattle scene, it really is kind of remarkable how that came out of these places like Ellsberg and Monsanto and Grace Harbor and these complete shitholes.
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:19.200
Uh not putting them down, but just you know, it's the logging towns and just these dark places, you know.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:30.960
Uh, and these kids are inspired by all sorts of things to create something original and just do it anyway, even though there's really not a lot of incentive and uh nothing to do.
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:37.599
Yeah, and it's not like not only did they predate grunge, they predated the thing that predated Grun, like the subpop wave.
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:44.880
It may be not might not have been a mainstream thing, but it was a hip enough thing that probably there were bands, Seattle bands were like, I'd like to be on subpop, I'm I'd like to make a band to get on there.
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:49.920
Scream retreaser before that, even though nothing nothing to aspire to in that area.
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:53.599
There were, I mean, I have to admit when they popped up, they were out of nowhere.
00:31:53.759 --> 00:32:02.640
Like there were a couple bands up there you knew about the like the U Men, U Men, say, you know, or the wipers, but they seemed older and kind of bigger.
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:08.160
That it was weird to see them pop up, and they have nothing to do with say beat happening or something like that.
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:12.640
Like they were just sort of their own thing always, like they aren't part of a scene.
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:15.680
And uh there's something to be said for that kind of independence.
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:21.839
It's it it means they're harder to pigeonhole as a grunge band or as an underground band or an above ground band.
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:27.279
They kind of just are a rock band, you know, like a hard hard rock band from the 80s, 90s.
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:37.759
And it's interesting that probably in the 70s they would have been more of an arena-ish band in a more easy way because they would have had a longer career that would have been brought along a little.
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:46.880
They would have had more space to just make albums and tour opening for people and stuff, like say a blue west or cult or aerosmith or somebody like that.
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:49.759
And uh who knows what kind of career they would have had that.
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:51.279
You know, that's really that's a good point.
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:55.119
Yeah, and it's just just a little bit earlier would have been a lot different.
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:56.079
Yeah, it's true.
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:56.559
It's true.
00:32:56.799 --> 00:32:57.200
Awesome.
00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:03.200
Well, uh, thanks everybody for listening to this one, and uh, hope you enjoyed it, and I hope you'll tune in with us next time on The Spindle.
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:04.160
Bye-bye.
00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:15.680
The Spindle is produced by John Howard and me, Mark Masters.
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:17.680
I'm also the audio editor.
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:21.279
Our theme song is by the great band Honey Radar.
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:26.480
Our podcast is brought to you by Wastoids, audio and video from Hello Merch.
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:35.440
Find more podcasts and videos at Wastoids.com, and please leave a rating and a review of our podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:36.559
Thanks.
00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:03.120
You're listening to the Spindle on Waste Oids.
00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:04.240
On Waste Oids.
00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:16.879
Hello everybody.
00:00:17.039 --> 00:00:20.079
It's the Spindle Podcast with Mark and John.
00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:28.160
Welcome to the Spindle, a podcast about seven-inch records.
00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:29.039
I'm Mark.
00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:30.160
I'm John.
00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:36.240
And in each episode, we talk about one seven-inch record and hopefully give you some insight into it that you haven't heard before.
00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:41.679
We both got into music in the 80s and 90s when 7 inches were super important, especially on independent labels.
00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:46.799
So that's the era we mostly draw from, but we sometimes pick some stuff earlier or later than that, too.
00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:50.560
And either way, we try to keep it short and to the point, just like seven inches do.
00:00:50.799 --> 00:01:00.399
So on this episode, we are going to talk about the Screaming Trees Double 7 Inch, Change Has Come Backed with Days, and Time Speaks Its Golden Tongue backed with Flashes.
00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:04.079
This was released on Sub Pop Records in Seattle in 1989.
00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:06.640
Seattle, the town that Screaming Trees were from.
00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:10.079
I think it's their only record they actually ever did on Sub Pop.
00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:17.519
And I am not sure when or where the songs are recorded, but the first seven-inch is produced by Jack and Dino, and the second by Steve Fisk.
00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:20.400
So, and those guys both had studios of their own, I'm pretty sure.
00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:23.040
So I imagine they were recorded at those studios.
00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:34.560
The band lined up at this point was Mark Lanigan on vocals, Gary Lee Connor on guitar, and Trumpet on a couple, I think one track here, Van Connor, his brother on bass, and Mark Pickerill on drums.
00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:36.640
This is their third single.
00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:42.000
If you count the collaboration with Beat Happening that came out the year before as one, this would be their third single.
00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:46.159
And they already had four albums out, uh, three of which were on SST.
00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:54.640
And one of the interesting things about this Double 7-inch is it's like it's like the gap between when they were on SST and when they got onto a major label, got onto Epic Records.
00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:58.959
And in a way, it's kind of it kind of musically sort of a midpoint too.
00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:04.959
There's a lot of what they did before that you can hear on this, but there's also sort of what would come after that you can hear on as well.
00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:09.599
And um, it's four just really awesome Screaming Tree songs, basically.
00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:12.960
Um possibly the some of the best Screaming Tree songs.
00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:14.319
Yeah, I think it's great.
00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:18.400
And that's I to me it's their pinnacle, and I don't mean that in a dismissive way.
00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:24.960
I think it just really all kind of comes together on on that particular on this particular record for sure.
00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:31.759
Uh it just it it's the best combination of kind of their garagey sort of psychedelic thing.
00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:39.120
The songs all hit, like they, you know, some of their songs are good, some of them are songs, you know, on the albums.
00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:42.000
Although I I generally think their hit rate's pretty good.
00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:47.599
It they definitely have a tone they they kind of work through that can get maybe a little samey sometimes.
00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:52.960
Uh, but this song, this this record, they all have pretty good hit because I particularly like Days.
00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:54.639
I think that's a really cool song.
00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:57.520
And I like Time Speaks or Golden Tongue.
00:02:57.599 --> 00:02:58.719
I think that one's good.
00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:56.479
There aren't huge differences between the Andino production and the uh Fisk production, but there are little ones, you know, like the Fisk stuff sounds a little more garagey, almost a little more 60s-ish in its in a way.
00:03:56.639 --> 00:04:09.360
The drums slightly more natural sound, whereas with Andino, you can definitely hear that Proto Grunge drum sound and uh arena rock kind of punch, just in his way, not in a sell-out way or anything.
00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:10.000
Right, right.
00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:12.879
Just the kind of thing that he was coining at the time, basically.
00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:13.280
Right.
00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:21.519
Yeah, I think it I think the point you make about their albums is pretty interesting too, because I I like all the SST records, I think, especially Invisible Lantern, I think is an amazing record.
00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:27.199
But they they do all have spots where they're like, okay, this isn't as good as the last song or or as as the song.
00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:36.079
It's almost like they almost were able to to mix songs in a way so that you could be okay with a song that wasn't as good because it got them to another place on the record.
00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:39.199
Whereas with this here, it's called like it's just bang bang.
00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:43.279
They don't need to do this kind of like, well, this could be a transitional track between these two or whatever.
00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:47.600
They're just hit they're just hitting on each song because there's only four songs in.
00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:48.560
Sure, right.
00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:49.279
That makes sense.
00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:53.360
And and also it's a band that obviously at that point only really had one songwriter.
00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:56.560
So you don't have a multiplicity of voices.
00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:03.439
Uh I think I read that Lanigan really didn't start writing until after Uncle Anesthesia, which is the album after this.
00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:06.160
Like Sweet Oblivion is when he started contributing stuff.
00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:08.720
So all of this is, I'm pretty sure, Lee Connor.
00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:13.040
And it's very much in that updated psychedelic way.
00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:20.480
Uh he was I was reading an interview with him where he said that in his mind they were gonna be a 60s garage remage band.
00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:21.680
Like that was his idea.
00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:30.959
And he said, if you look at I was reading, he pointed at the pic like he points out in the picture, one of their first pictures, you can see he's got like bangs and these round glasses, he's wearing this like paisley shirt.
00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:32.879
He's like, but nobody else wanted to do it.
00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:34.959
So we we became this thing.
00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:47.439
Um but that was I remember when they first popped up, that was a big part of it is they did kind of that forced them to find a cool new way to sort of sound psychedelic without just sounding like the Paisley Underground bands from LA or something like that.
00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:53.279
It really was kind of a different vibe that they they got like a heavier vibe with it that was pretty unique.
00:05:53.360 --> 00:06:03.519
And it wasn't just Lanigan singing, it was like the whole package was a little bit different while at the same time still obviously being derived from the garage psychedelic stuff.
00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:06.720
They're very acid-y, I don't know how much acid most of those guys take.
00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:13.839
Lanigan probably took a ton, but it's very, you know, it's very uh very acid y, very just knowingly psychedelic.
00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:16.319
I mean, you got the name, the screaming trees, you know.
00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:17.839
Like, I'm in the woods, man.
00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:20.319
I hear the trees, you know, fucking yeah.
00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:24.000
And it does definitely have that vibe drifting over it.
00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:24.720
Mm-hmm.
00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:26.000
Yeah, I mean, it's funny.
00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:36.800
If you I always kind of when I first heard them, I I had trouble placing, especially because they're in SST, which gave you a little expectation of punk, but SST at this point was already signing a diverse range of bands.
00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:44.879
So it wasn't necessarily a surprise that they didn't sound like other SST bands, but I still like I yeah, I wasn't exactly sure exactly what to place them in.
00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:47.759
Seattle, they they started putting out records before Seattle was happening.
00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:48.560
Oh, yeah, they're way.
00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:55.120
I mean, the first one, Clairvoyance, when I was I mean, I heard that at the radio station that when that came out.
00:06:55.360 --> 00:07:01.439
So they had the other thing is I don't know how they they got good distribution for that first record, which helped them, I think.
00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:12.560
They got into a lot of college radio stations, and there were some easy to play on the radio songs on that one, and that that led them to the SST stuff, which once they combine with SST, their records were just everywhere.
00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:18.800
Like it they you know, I don't know how much money they made, but they were probably, you know, they're getting a van and drive around famous for sure.
00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:24.399
Like they played all over the place and put out records and um good live band.
00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:28.639
Yeah, and it's and it's what you say about the garage thing really makes a lot of sense.
00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:31.759
I I kind of heard it then and I hear it even more now sometimes on those older records.
00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:40.959
Even on this record, so if you if if they were just you know slightly a little bit um more homagey, they could be like a get hit band or something.
00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:45.839
They could be they could be one of those like kind of uh retro-ish garage bands that were happening.
00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:48.480
Then there were a lot of good ones too, like crypt bands and stuff like that.
00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:51.199
Oh, yeah, well, I mean the fuzz tones and stuff like that.
00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:52.079
Absolutely.
00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:56.399
I think because of that, the songs aren't written very garagily, though.
00:07:56.560 --> 00:08:03.120
Like it's like there's a vibe to it, but the song there they don't really when I think about it, they don't have sort of a garagey kind of song.
00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:06.639
Sometimes they sound a bit like cream, maybe to me.
00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:11.519
Like there seems to be a bit of that with it, or some of the heavier power trio-y stuff.
00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:14.639
The who I think is an obvious thing with them.
00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:20.879
And the drumming in particular sounds very sometimes very Keith Moon informed to my ears.
00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:34.080
Um they don't really have that kind of hey, hey, let's you know, garage the the kind of uh upbeat, kind of like the garage thing, especially with Lanigan, where the vocal vocalist is often sort of like this ringleader of the people on the floor, whatever.
00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:35.600
That was not Lanigan's role.
00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:41.679
No, they're more blue cheers, blue cheer doors, dark, dark psych, I guess you'd call it.
00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:43.679
Yeah, and especially lyrically, too.
00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:56.480
I mean, all their lyrics have these kind of mythical, kind of mysterious, it's all shadows and and glass key dark yeah, dark places and sle sleep time and night and all that kind of stuff.
00:08:56.720 --> 00:08:59.600
But but in a in a way that's not like too cliche-y.
00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:13.200
I think I think it's it's there's consistency to what their lyrics are about, but it's I think they're pretty generally on this record at least, pretty good at uh painting some pictures without uh it sounding too kind of stock.
00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:13.840
Right.
00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:19.519
Well, I mean, I think that's always probably with Lanigan's well, so he would he would change lyrics too, I think.
00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:22.480
Like he would get a hold of lyrics and rewrite them and things like that.
00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:24.720
They aren't, I mean, I'm reading them now.
00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:28.639
They're they're actually cool, and I love Screaming Trees Don't Diminish it at all.
00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:36.960
They're not the most mature like kind of lyrics in a way, like they are kind of like an idea of what lyrics are, you know, in a way.
00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:42.080
Like they remind me a little bit of um Oasis lyrics in some ways.
00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:43.600
Well, that's good though.
00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:50.720
That's a slight that's a side conversation we'll have some other time.
00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:55.120
So I'm tweeting here, but uh no, but but no, uh I mean that sincerely though.
00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:56.639
I'm not just trying to do that.
00:09:56.799 --> 00:10:09.360
Um I they do kind of remind me of that, and I guess if people do like and I think they're better than Oasis lyrics, but if people do like Oasis lyrics, they do kind of like that vaporous you can apply almost anything to them, right?
00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:11.120
You know, right, right, for sure.
00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:26.720
And and uh that's not necessarily a weakness because that gives a lot of different people away inside the songs, and they end up conveying a lot of emotional content between Landigan's voice and the sound of the band itself and the way it plays.
00:11:58.240 --> 00:11:59.919
Like just absolute mayhem.
00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:02.639
Just a sheet of freaking noise.
00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:04.000
Oh wow, that's cool.
00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:06.399
Yeah, I I I never was able to see them live.
00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:08.720
You saw them or I did, yes.
00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:16.320
I saw them uh in a frat house in Yale in an attic, and I don't know why they happened to play there.
00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:20.159
I they they should have probably been playing a bigger place, maybe it was a between gig.
00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:23.200
So it was them and fire hose, somebody else.
00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:46.159
And so Van Connor was sick or something like that, and so he didn't tour with them, and he was replaced with Donna Dresh, who went on to become sort of a well-known person, and and uh she was great, perfect for them because she's very energetic, and uh they were great to see just right in your face like that, because I'm just standing in front of Mark Lanigan, like, oh the drummer.
00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:48.559
Uh I like that drummer a lot, Mark Pickerel.
00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:50.960
I don't think they were quite as good after that guy left.
00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:55.440
And his drumming on this this e these E seven inches is particularly good.
00:12:55.679 --> 00:13:00.720
Uh he's got a little bit of flair, he's a little bit Keith Mooney, but he plainly kind of does his own thing with it.
00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:06.399
Like I'd call him another proto-grunge drummer, because he does predate that by quite a bit.
00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:18.639
And uh definitely combining 70s, 60s rock with uh say the whosker do kind of energy um is you know, he would have been pretty early with that kind of thing.
00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:20.960
And I thought yeah, I think he sounds great.
00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:23.600
He always really he really compliments them.
00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:33.919
They start to sound more like a professional rock band in a weird way, and I and uh when they have what's his name, Vera Martin in there, um, I don't think his playing has as much character.
00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:35.120
Yeah, I agree.
00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:42.559
I mean, I I like the records that came after this, the the especially the first two epic records, I think are good, but there's definitely a different vibe there.
00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:55.440
It's it's it's not necessarily glossier, but there's a smoother thing happening, and the this you can see them sort of pointing to what we're doing on this, but this still has the kind of uh edge that the previous albums had in a really good way.
00:13:55.519 --> 00:14:01.360
And I'd be curious, I'm surprised that they didn't actually take another take new stabs at these songs later, too.
00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.879
I'm glad they didn't, but it it seems like something they might have thought about doing.
00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:08.399
Yeah, I mean, subpop at the time, you know, at the time you would have thought, oh, it's selling fine.
00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:13.360
It's on subpop, you would not think it's would have been completely out of print for 30 years.
00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:14.159
Right.
00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:17.919
I don't think that was ever the intention in a weird way.
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:18.559
So I don't know.
00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:24.639
Yeah, it's yeah, you still you can't, it's not on streaming services, it's not, it's impossible to you have to pay money for it.
00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:33.200
Yeah, I couldn't even to be honest, because you know, I I grab and if I don't have if I only have the seven inch, I try to grab MP3s to play when we're in in the podcast.
00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:35.759
And on this one, I couldn't even find a way to buy it.
00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:38.559
I had to go to an old blog that had posted it.
00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:45.200
Yeah, I had that for a long time, and then when I sold a bunch of CDs, you know, I'm like, ah, I can always get Screaming Tree stuff.
00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:48.799
Because I had both I had the double seven-inch original double seven inch at one point.
00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:51.759
Uh, but they add an extra, if you got the CD, there was like one more song.
00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:52.799
Well, right, right.
00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:52.960
Okay.
00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:59.519
So eventually I I got the CD, but yeah, stupidly I got rid of it because I'm like, it'll be Screaming Trees.
00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:00.960
You could find that shit anywhere.
00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:05.759
And uh that one in particular, which is my favorite, I no, you can't.
00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:06.799
Yeah, that's wild.
00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:18.480
The funny the the one of the interesting things here too, if like if your perspective on them is you learned about them in the grunge years when they had uh, you know, I guess they had like one hit or maybe two off of the major label records.
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:22.639
And I think people thought of them as like, oh, they're part of that whole scene.
00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:26.879
Well, it didn't take that long to figure out that they had been around a lot longer than most of those bands.
00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:33.440
But also, I don't think even as as as they got a little slicker on the major labels, they never really they still sounded like themselves.
00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:39.279
They didn't it didn't seem like they ever kind of said we're gonna go with this and sound like the other bands that are happening now.
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:47.279
No, and I I think they because they had the sound they did, it was pretty easy to just knock that into a kind of an arena kind of shape.
00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:48.639
It kind of works.
00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:52.879
It does, like you're saying, it doesn't really fundamentally alter them that much.
00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:53.440
Right.
00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:57.279
You know, because they already weren't like uh garage band.
00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:11.200
It was more of a a concept kind of thing, so it became pretty easy for them just to rock out, you know, just a little bit more, give it that little bit of arena flash and the heavier, slappier drums.
00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:28.400
So one thing we worth I think worth mentioned too here is how the this each track track has kind of a different thing going on.
00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:40.240
I mean, they're all very screaming trees songs, but I think like Time Speaks Your Golden Tongue is kind of slow-ish and more almost ballady, and Flashes is like a metal tune.
00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:44.960
Yeah, kind of Days is a big heavy rock song with trumpet at the end of it.
00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:45.680
Yep, yep.
00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:47.359
That trumpet is a good touch, too.
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:48.960
Yeah, it is kind of good, yes.
00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:51.519
Generally, I'm not a fan of that idea, but it works out well there.
00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:54.799
But no, it actually it sounds pretty good there.
00:17:55.039 --> 00:18:07.920
It's interesting with them because I don't generally unless I until I sit and listen to the records, I you know, my my general like remo removed impression of them is that they weren't super diverse in their styles, but they actually kind of were.
00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:25.119
I mean, songs would be pretty different from song to song, but they they have this kind of overwhelming with the consistent guitar sound and with Blanagan's voice so distinct that everything Yeah, I don't think he he ever became the most dynamic singer, kind of like it's you know, it's he he has a couple different modes.
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:28.079
I guess eventually he got a grizzled whispery kind of mode.
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:31.839
Um, but but he's also it's an incredible voice, unforgettable.
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.920
And plainly he knew how to to sing eventually, you know, really well.
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:37.920
Um and he's strength of the band.
00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:40.720
But yeah, it's like it's not a lot of variants going on.
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.640
But that's also typical of that time period with those records and those bands.
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:49.119
A lot of them, you know, you have your thing, you're doing it and you just do it.
00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:49.519
Right.
00:18:49.759 --> 00:19:01.119
Um you're right though, you're right though, because that's what I was saying, is like instead of writing all these garagey songs, they just seem to go all over the map a little bit within that narrow frame of sounding like them.
00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:06.960
It's like they try a lot of different stuff uh within the hard rock framework, you know.
00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:08.960
Yeah, yeah, they do.
00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:11.599
I think it's almost it's uh it's almost easy to kind of miss that.
00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:45.119
It's almost like they're like deceptively diverse because every song is in, like you say, in a somewhat narrow range, but lots of differences from track to track, and uh you know, and I think it's not just especially in the songwriting because the guitar sound, I love his guitar sound, but again, he sort of like Lanigan was not did not play a lot of different but the structures the song structures and they were always usually about the same length and everything, but the what you know the the variance in terms of the the pacing and the way that they would put a song together from verse to chorus and stuff like that definitely could change.
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:46.559
It changes on this record.
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:47.759
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:52.319
I really like my favorite, I think, is even if in especially when I kind of like the crudeness of that one.
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:55.680
I mean, I crude crude is the wrong word, but I just really like that.
00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:58.640
One seems a little raw in its way.
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:01.839
Um uh Buzz Factory is kind of cool too.
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:09.839
Like Buzz Factory's got that, and I think Andino did that one, and so it's like their first one that sounds kind of like a rockier record.
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:11.359
And that one's good.
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:14.079
That one's that one's got a lot of good tunes on it.
00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:21.519
Yeah, I always for some reason maybe it's just because I I I sort of first found out about around a misable lantern time, but that one has a a feel to me.
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:26.319
That's the one's kind of the most like murky-ish kind of it's it's that one's good.
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:27.599
That one I like that one a lot.
00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:28.799
Yeah, that one's good.
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:35.039
I I like all of those SSC ones and clairvoyance, which is the first one that came out, which is the first one I heard, uh, is good.
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:44.799
I got I got after clairvoyance, I I ended up hearing uh the first one, which I can't remember the name of right now, um, that is really good.
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.160
And that's probably the most garagey 60s-ish sounding one.
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:58.480
That's the one where it they actually do seem to be using 60s uh real 60s tropes, but so for some reason the songs are really catchy and uh there's a couple of really good songs on there.
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:14.960
They were I I don't know why at the time I probably would have associated them with the band like Plastic Land or something like that in a way, because they were so self-consciously 60s-ish, but they plainly grew just never really went like in that full direction and just start doing their own thing.
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:19.039
Well they're from the same kind of area that we talked about, the Melvins.
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:19.680
Right.
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:22.880
And so they're literally from the same kind of area.
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:24.319
Uh I think very close.
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:29.759
I read an interview with Mark Lanigan when he saw Nirvana play at the high school or something like that.
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:39.680
You know, they're from that same milieu and they're just trying to create their own thing, probably in a pretty tough landscape to do that in.
00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:40.319
Yeah.
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:45.839
And they're all they are quite a parallel to the Melvins because they they predate what happened grunge wise.
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:47.920
They kind of are godfathers of the scene.
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:49.599
But I I get the feeling that I don't know.
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:52.000
I mean, I guess Screaming Trees were influential on the other.
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.160
I mean, I co Cobain uh probably was influenced by them.
00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:59.839
But I have a feeling that Melvins were probably a bigger Oh, Melvin's way more influence.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.720
Influential band.
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:02.079
Like just right off the bat.
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.240
I think the screaming trees are just people dug them.
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:05.039
They sound great.
00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:06.799
You know, listen to that singer go.
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:11.519
Melvin's affec affected people on a psychological, philosophical, molecular level.
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:11.759
Right.
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.599
Like they made you think differently about what you might or might not do.
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:18.240
Whereas Screaming Trees just kind of were good.
00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:19.039
Kicked ass.
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:20.480
Came out there and kicked ass.
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:28.160
Whenever I try to think of exactly what their role is in that whole situation, it's really kind of odd.
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:36.559
In a weird way, they kind of completely separate from it because like because of the predating and because of the never really sounding like any other band there.
00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:44.960
And not being on subpop, like they put out their own records and then were on SST on a like long before.
00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:54.880
And the uh their drummer is a big networking, like I think he worked at Sub Pop, so Mark Pickerel is uh he's actually a Nexus for a lot of stuff.
00:23:55.039 --> 00:24:00.880
He's a more than just the drummer in Screaming Trees that he knows a lot of people and uh has worked on that scene quite a bit.
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:11.200
Yeah, and I mean we obviously part of the reason that we're talking about this this week is because Van, the bassist, uh Lee's brother, passed away recently, and then Lanigan passed away last year.
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:14.400
I think it hasn't even been a year since he passed away, right?
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:19.279
So um both pretty sad things, both too young to be dying.
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:21.920
Yeah, that's pretty that's pretty ridiculous.
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:23.519
I don't know what it really ever happened.
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:30.480
I know Lanigan was making music all the all along, but I guess they never really thought of I don't know, did they do any kind of reunion things?
00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:37.680
I never heard about they never got well, I mean, they never got along, so it probably was tough to even cook up reunion plans.
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:38.160
I don't know though.
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:46.559
I you know, they just they're weird on that edge where it's like people aren't begging for it because it's just screaming trees, you know.
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:59.119
But on the other hand, if they probably had done it, they probably would have garnered way more attention than they did the last time around if they'd have been able to get it together because they they would have probably sounded great, you know, same thing.
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.079
And then it would have had a little bit more of an impact now.
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:08.799
They also the part of it is that when they started getting that attention, they stopped for four years and didn't do anything.
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:16.000
So if they had put out a record somewhere in there, it we'd be talking about it's sort of a different career trajectory anyway.
00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:16.400
Right.
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:18.240
I mean, uh some reason it sort of makes sense.
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:32.480
They didn't seem like the kind of band that was built to like weather big storms, like they got a hit, sort of, then their next major label record wasn't quite as big, and then uh it didn't seem like the kind of band that was gonna be like, well, we're still gonna stick with this for another 20 years, although maybe it's just because if it's interpersonal.
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:36.960
I mean, Mud Honey did it, so it could have happened with Streamer Trees, they just couldn't get along, I guess.
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.279
Yeah, I mean, that seems to be a whole bunch of it.
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:40.960
Is like, do you want to spend time together?
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:42.400
That makes it easier to make music.
00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:49.519
So Mud Honey, plainly a big focus for them is getting along, like it's a priority, and that makes their art better.
00:25:49.839 --> 00:26:04.319
I think there's a mythology about you need that kind of fractiousness and stuff like that in order to make great art, and it's I think it's bullshit for the most part, because we've all had jobs, and we know there are very few jobs where everybody's at each other's throats and you're doing the best work you can do.
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:06.960
It's just not compatible with that.
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:17.359
And so usually the I would imagine the best bands are like any workplace, you know, where everybody knows their role and is fulfilling it, and that's what makes it great.
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:18.880
Yeah, no, there are ways to do it.
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:21.920
Everybody fighting and getting fucked up and stuff like that.
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:34.880
Like Oasis is one example, the Kings, another one where there was always a split in that band because Dave Davies is so fractious and kind of Ray is very withdrawn.
00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:45.200
Like he's not somebody who really likes to get involved in all that kind of drama, but he also knows he needs his brother in the band, and so there's this kind of mess that happens there.
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:51.359
Uh Oasis, they both seem like cement heads, so there's not a lot of logic going on there.
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:54.240
No, and so there's not a lot of logic going on there.
00:26:54.400 --> 00:26:59.440
But I don't know that I would consider that you know great art on the level of the Kings, for instance.
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:08.400
Like but and so these, well, I mean, these are battling brothers, these are apt comparisons because there was a lot of conflict also between Lee and Van.
00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:13.680
There are plenty of stories about the two of them fighting and Lanigan and Pickerel standing around watching them fight.
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:15.759
Like, I'm not getting in the middle of that.
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:16.240
Uh-huh.
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:23.119
And then there's stories about the whole band fighting other people they encounter on the street.
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:28.559
And so uh, you know, it's it's it's a it's a shame though, because they were really good.
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:42.400
And I so I also really kind of loved their their whole just the visual aspect of Lanigan, this tall guy with his long hair, kind of kind of the Jim Morrison-y kind of looking guy, and then these two guys, two brothers that almost look like twins.
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:58.480
He was fun to I didn't obviously only saw uh Lee, but he was a lot of fun to watch live because he just it was a little bit the D-booting thing where he's just flinging himself all over the place and there's a lot to fling around, very entertaining, guitar just everywhere all the time and stuff like that.
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:06.000
They were they definitely had their visual thing together in a weird way, and I I can't imagine it wasn't unconscious, you know.
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:30.559
It's like and and it was during that era where everybody was pro expected to provide interpretive dance with the music that they were doing, so they're supposed to flop around as much as possible and throw themselves around, and so it probably it did also look really good to have Lanigan not moving at all, and then the two people behind him going like crazy, you know, right, and that's a that also carries a lot of interest in its way.
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:31.359
Yeah, I agree.
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:34.319
I mean, I just think they they were one of the coolest looking bands in pictures.
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:39.119
There was this weird symmetry to them with the two brothers flanking Lanigan that always looked cool to me.
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:42.240
But it's it, you know, if you you gotta be visually arresting.
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:50.160
I mean, there is that definitely there's part of it, like that that component is something that people want to pretend like doesn't exist, especially the underground world and the indie world.
00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:54.720
It's like, ah, we're too integ too much integrity for us to put something out there like that.
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:55.039
Uh-huh.
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:57.920
It's like, no, I mean, like, people want to see that.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:02.480
Like that, that's another connection, that physical connection of performance and everything.
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:03.039
Yeah.
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:08.079
Yeah, especially back in the days when there wasn't that much media to peruse about bands.
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.440
Like, if you saw the picture of them on the back cover, that might be the only time you ever saw them.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:14.000
You'd look at it over and over.
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:14.319
Yeah.
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:20.319
You wouldn't see video, you'd have to go see them live or look at pictures and imagine what they were doing.
00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:22.400
Right, right, exactly, which was cool.
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:24.400
It was it was better.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:25.839
Exactly.
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:26.640
It was better.
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:27.759
Those are the good old days.
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:28.160
Come on.
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:30.799
No, no, but it's nothing's improved.
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:33.839
Nothing's improved.
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:36.880
That's the spindle's that's the spindle's motto.
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:38.400
Nothing's improved.
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:41.119
We're only getting worse, episode by episode.
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:42.240
Exactly.
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:44.559
Don't expect us to improve when no one else ever has.
00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:46.000
Why should we?
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:52.319
Well, uh, this has been uh uh different than I expected, but I'm I've been enjoying it.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:55.200
This is a great record, and I'm glad we talked about this.
00:29:55.359 --> 00:30:02.400
Is the two two straight episodes of Seattle band, great Seattle bands, which is awesome, but maybe we'll uh not be Seattle next time.
00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:05.359
But definitely if you've never heard Screaming Trees, this is a good place to start.
00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:12.559
Well, it's kind of it's it is obviously we did this because of the ban dying.
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:20.960
And it is kind of a bummer that we're getting to that age where now we've had how many of these memorial ones almost in a row?
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:25.119
Yeah, and it's like kind of a bummer.
00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:28.640
Uh, but it is also a function of aging and nostalgia.
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:45.519
Now we're looking back, you know, nostalgia, and so this is the this is the bittersweet tang of nostalgia, finishing with the idea that this person that represented something in our youth is now gone, and all we can do is sort of look at these records and be like, ooh, that was a long time ago.
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:48.400
Yeah, and also just be so happy that they did this.
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:56.480
And you know, when it when it's happening at the time, you don't really necessarily know what it's gonna mean to you later, but really glad that they made this band and that they made these records.
00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:56.960
I mean, all this.
00:30:57.359 --> 00:30:58.960
It got preserved, yeah, for sure.
00:30:59.279 --> 00:30:59.839
It's great.
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:11.680
And uh yeah, and that whole Seattle scene, it really is kind of remarkable how that came out of these places like Ellsberg and Monsanto and Grace Harbor and these complete shitholes.
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:19.200
Uh not putting them down, but just you know, it's the logging towns and just these dark places, you know.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:30.960
Uh, and these kids are inspired by all sorts of things to create something original and just do it anyway, even though there's really not a lot of incentive and uh nothing to do.
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:37.599
Yeah, and it's not like not only did they predate grunge, they predated the thing that predated Grun, like the subpop wave.
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:44.880
It may be not might not have been a mainstream thing, but it was a hip enough thing that probably there were bands, Seattle bands were like, I'd like to be on subpop, I'm I'd like to make a band to get on there.
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:49.920
Scream retreaser before that, even though nothing nothing to aspire to in that area.
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:53.599
There were, I mean, I have to admit when they popped up, they were out of nowhere.
00:31:53.759 --> 00:32:02.640
Like there were a couple bands up there you knew about the like the U Men, U Men, say, you know, or the wipers, but they seemed older and kind of bigger.
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:08.160
That it was weird to see them pop up, and they have nothing to do with say beat happening or something like that.
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:12.640
Like they were just sort of their own thing always, like they aren't part of a scene.
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:15.680
And uh there's something to be said for that kind of independence.
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:21.839
It's it it means they're harder to pigeonhole as a grunge band or as an underground band or an above ground band.
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:27.279
They kind of just are a rock band, you know, like a hard hard rock band from the 80s, 90s.
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:37.759
And it's interesting that probably in the 70s they would have been more of an arena-ish band in a more easy way because they would have had a longer career that would have been brought along a little.
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:46.880
They would have had more space to just make albums and tour opening for people and stuff, like say a blue west or cult or aerosmith or somebody like that.
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:49.759
And uh who knows what kind of career they would have had that.
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:51.279
You know, that's really that's a good point.
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:55.119
Yeah, and it's just just a little bit earlier would have been a lot different.
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:56.079
Yeah, it's true.
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:56.559
It's true.
00:32:56.799 --> 00:32:57.200
Awesome.
00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:03.200
Well, uh, thanks everybody for listening to this one, and uh, hope you enjoyed it, and I hope you'll tune in with us next time on The Spindle.
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:04.160
Bye-bye.
00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:15.680
The Spindle is produced by John Howard and me, Mark Masters.
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:17.680
I'm also the audio editor.
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:21.279
Our theme song is by the great band Honey Radar.
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:26.480
Our podcast is brought to you by Wastoids, audio and video from Hello Merch.
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:35.440
Find more podcasts and videos at Wastoids.com, and please leave a rating and a review of our podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:36.559
Thanks.
