00:00:00Understanding Trauma & Vicarious Experiences
00:11:01Defining Trauma and Perceptions
00:22:52Understanding Trauma Response and PTSD
00:33:08Treatment and Coping With Trauma
ABOUT THIS EPISODE
Have you ever wondered how trauma shapes our minds and bodies? Join Dr. Tami and Harold on the "PsychologistSay" podcast as she engages in a conversation about unraveling the complexities of trauma and PTSD in honor of National Awareness Month for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Dr. Tami kicks off the episode by identifying how trauma manifests through both direct and vicarious experiences, leaving lasting imprints on our mental and emotional health. Learn practical tips to safeguard yourself from vicarious trauma, especially when dealing with triggering content.
Next, we venture into how trauma is perceived differently by each individual. Using familiar scenarios, such as the disappointment of not making a sports team versus the terror of surviving a car accident, we illuminate how personal history and perception play pivotal roles in shaping traumatic experiences. We also delve into the physiological responses that follow trauma, emphasizing that every person's reaction is unique and worth understanding.
Finally, Dr. Tami explores the spectrum of trauma responses, from acute stress to PTSD, providing a clear distinction between different levels of trauma and their impacts. Through relatable examples like encountering a bobcat, she explains the natural fight, flight, or freeze responses and how the brain stores frightening memories. We discuss the various treatments available for trauma and stress reactions, offering hope and practical advice for those affected. Additionally, we address historical and generational trauma, particularly within Indian country, underscoring the critical role of psychological treatment in healing these deep-rooted wounds. Tune in for an enlightening discussion that aims to foster understanding and offer strategies for recovery.
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English
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SHOW NOTES 🔗
TRANSCRIPT 🔗
WEBVTT
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The following is a series of candid conversations.
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The content is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for seeking help from a mental health care professional.
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To learn more info regarding additional disclaimers, privacy policies and terms and conditions, please visit HelloDrTammycom.
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Bonjour, welcome to Psychologist Say, a podcast where I talk about the psychology of everyday living.
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I'm your host, Dr Tammy, and I'm joined by co-host Harold.
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How are you doing today, Harold?
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I'm doing great, dr Tammy, how are you?
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I'm awesome.
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I know today we actually are going to have a conversation that's a bit of a heavy hitter, I would call it.
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It's focusing on trauma a bit, and so I just want to have a conversation about that, especially because it is National Awareness Month for post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, and so I think it's a really good time for us to kind of explain what that is.
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I don't want to go into a whole lot of detail.
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I just want to start a small conversation I know it's something that is very complex and will take multiple episodes to talk about all of the different angles associated with what it is and the different levels and the way that trauma can affect somebody.
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Right, so trauma specifically, or are we talking about PTSD?
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Right, great question, so let's just get right into it.
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So when somebody experiences a trauma and now for our listeners, again, remember this is a trigger warning.
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We're not purposely trying to bring up memories or have people feel uncomfortable, yet just talking about trauma and exploring some of this and listening can be a bit triggering for people.
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So I just want to put that disclaimer out there Be very aware of what your needs are and when you're listening, you can always take a break, pause, seek out resources online if you're feeling concerned about anything like this.
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So I just want to do that again this episode.
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Harold did have an experience where he felt a bit activated, right, oh, for sure.
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Okay, good, so that's an important thing I think that I even want to talk about is anytime that you listen to individuals talking about something traumatic.
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So something that's traumatic is something that has, it's an injury, it's a hurt that is big enough to impact and kind of shake you a bit.
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Like the injury of a mind.
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Definitely.
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I mean part of trauma impacts the way your brain encodes information, what it remembers, what it stores, and it impacts your emotion.
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But it also is really visceral and it's stored in your body, is hurtful and opposite of what you would expect to happen, something that you are feeling very threatened or danger and extreme heightened, of not feeling safe because of an incident, and that's something that people can refer to as an actual trauma and that's something that people can refer to as an actual trauma.
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And so a trauma is something that basically you experience, that's living it.
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It can be vicarious, where it's happening to somebody else, but you're witnessing it, okay, or you're even hearing it, so it's a sensory experience that basically scares the shit out of you.
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I mean that's you know, for lack of a better way to explain it.
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It shakes you to your core, it scares you, okay.
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So kind of summarize what you just said.
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There it's some kind of terrifying situation that you may not experience yourself.
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You could witness it or hear it, and that memory is stored in your mind and body.
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Perfect, okay.
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It's a sensory, it is a mental picture.
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It is something that your body is, your brain is saying okay, that was dangerous.
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We need to remember every aspect of it to the best of our ability so that we can avoid that in the future.
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So dangerous, so does it necessarily have to be something that a dangerous situation?
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something that a dangerous situation well and and well, it's pairing it with something um like so, when we look at the the term ptsd, it's experiencing something, or seeing something, or feeling something, where you you were felt threatened for your life.
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Okay, so it's.
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It's something that shocked your system and really had you fearful for your survival in that mode.
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Yeah.
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So that's where you can say, okay, oh, this.
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You know, I never experienced that, but, boy, I've seen that we can witness something where somebody else was in a situation where they maybe were threatened, and it can scare our, shock, our system as well.
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So we live almost like vicariously through that another person's experience, in a way.
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Right, that's one way and many people don't.
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They aren't aware of that.
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Many people don't.
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They aren't aware of that.
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So I'll often tell people if you can avoid looking at things, if you know.
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It's a tendency sometimes when there's something that happened, it could be like maybe a motor vehicle accident.
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Yeah, I would actually say look away, you know, if it's something that where it's already, where people are taking care of it, you know the authorities right If you don't have the option to act.
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Right, there you go.
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Perfect, thank you.
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And so it's more about protect yourself, because your brain will encode that you may see something that is difficult for you to forget, and your brain will put you in that situation and it can re-experience that at a later date.
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And so it's almost.
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It's where it's good to know this.
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Even watching certain movies can be very triggering for some people, yeah, and they can get activated and I would then say, okay, so why are you watching that?
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Then, if it is having this response to you, can you limit your exposure to that versus?
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Yeah, yeah.
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So to build off of that, let's use the car accident example.
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Someone experienced or saw a car accident and saw something that changed them.
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They could experience that when watching a movie.
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They may not know that it's related to that, but that's kind of this awareness of vicarious.
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So it's being very aware of what you're listening to.
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When somebody else has been hurt or traumatized or experienced something very difficult and they want to talk to you about it, and they want to talk to you about it, that's good awareness that you may be impacted and feel some of that trauma by listening to the details.
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Your brain starts to listen to this information and it can start to impact you.
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Yeah, so those are the things that I think are and that's why I started off with.
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Today we're talking a bit about trauma because it is PTSD Awareness Month, but I'm very aware that we have to take this talk very slow and just get started a bit with it, because I believe so many people are not aware of how triggers work and that's part of, I think, our professional responsibility as psychologists and therapists is to make sure you know that vulnerability that people could have when you're starting to talk about trauma and even explaining it.
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Yeah, people could have when you're starting to talk about trauma and even explaining it.
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Yeah, so it's a fine.
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It's like I'm trying to balance this.
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We're giving some information without overloading right now, because I know each episode on.
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Psychologists say we can take this from another avenue and people can learn and process and digest a little bit more, especially for those people who are very unfamiliar with what trauma is, what it looks like in their life, and so even my trainings, I start off with a huge disclaimer and trying to teach the grounding and understanding of what we are about to talk about before I start talking about it.
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Right.
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So for somebody who may have had a traumatic experience and they're, maybe, they're unsure of, maybe, how it affects them, or if it is affecting them, how do they come to the realization that maybe it was stemming from that traumatic event, mm-hmm so there's something that's very common After we experience something, how did they come to the realization that maybe it was stemming from that traumatic event?
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So there's something that's very common After we experience something that is and I can call it a hurt or an injury, because sometimes we can have these hurts that don't necessarily qualify as a trauma, okay.
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And so a trauma, something that was yucky, it didn't feel good, it hurt us, yet we wouldn't define that as traumatic unless it was something that basically, like what I said, shook you to your core, and so the word traumatic is way overused in our society.
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I kind of always thought that yeah.
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Yeah.
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So like people get oh my gosh, that was traumatic.
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Yeah, you know, I hear that and I think well, you know, everybody gets to define traumatic, so it's not my job to say no, that's not traumatic for you.
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But it's as a do you get what I'm saying?
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Yeah, I got an example.
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Let's.
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Let's say, say somebody works really hard at making the local sports team and they don't make it, and they're really hurt by that.
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Okay, that's not traumatic, right?
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It should be something else.
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Boy, that would be a tough one for me as a therapist.
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I think I would struggle with that.
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To say that, no, I would say that's a hurt.
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Yeah, now remember, trauma is something that's it feels life-threatening.
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Okay, boy, that was an emotionally jarring.
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That really hurt that.
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I didn't make that team.
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Yeah, versus.
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I just experienced something that threatened my life.
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Yeah, I could have died.
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I could have died, yeah, or I could have been severely injured.
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Yeah injured.
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So that's where I think people really have to look at the difference between something that is emotionally difficult and really sucks that really sucks.
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That I didn't make the team versus.
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That was so traumatic that I'm shaken to my core and I'm maybe having trouble sleeping.
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I'm scared to do the things I used to do.
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I'm now avoiding any thoughts or situations associated with this.
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So that's the kind of difference where PTSD can be associated with those kind of factors.
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So even somebody let's say, let's go back to a vehicle accident where and this is North Dakota, it's very common where you could be driving and you hit a deer, oh yeah, that can be very traumatic to be driving in.
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This unpredictable event happens, and if it was a significant hit that triggered and jarred and could have been life-threatening and for some it is, it results in that, and for some it is, it results in that and then.
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So it is very common for the next time you drive, it's common for some people to have that reaction of oh my gosh, increased heart rate, nervousness, scanning, hitting the brakes more often it's common to have that increased anxiety, stress and alertfulness after something like that would happen, and would that occur, like every time they drive, or maybe just now and then even?
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I think that is more where it's with, if it's associated with, trauma.
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A lot of times it's avoidance of the situation.
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So if they were driving in town maybe, where they haven't seen deer before, it wouldn't happen.
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But if they were on the highway, the open road where the event would have taken place.
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There you go.
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So those are the trigger warnings where your brain starts to scan and go okay, we're on the open road.
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Now.
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This was the last time you were on a road like this.
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This deer came out, hit your car.
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So guess what?
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I'm going to have you very scared and worried and hypervigilant, like very aware, so that you can be prepared and try to basically your mind's thinking.
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I can try to avoid doing this again.
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Yet what our body's doing is re-experiencing it as if it's happening.
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Yeah, so you're constantly on edge.
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You're on edge, you're nervous, and this isn't everybody, remember, yep, some people can hit a deer and go oh wow, that was horrific.
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Is my car okay?
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Is my car okay?
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Good example.
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There are people and that's okay.
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I wish I could be more like that.
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You know where it's, it's, it's my brain goes oh okay.
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Well, now you got to go through insurance and and not maybe focus on, wow, I could have, I could have lost my life, I could have hurt somebody else, what if you know?
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What if, what if I swear you know?
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And so all these like really scary thoughts that accompany an event like that.
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So it is a matter of how people perceive and what they focus on.
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So okay, so I hit a deer last year, okay, and my response was like I just said, you know, is my truck, okay, oh man, just this little panel came off, oh, we're good, just kept driving.
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So you could have, let's say, a traumatic experience, but not feel trauma, or not.
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Right, and with that you know you could look at that as well.
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That was a that.
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Maybe that wasn't traumatic.
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You hit it on the side.
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Your car was dent.
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Now, if we took that same incident with somebody else and where the deer hit them straight, went through the windshield or something.
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So that's where you start to look at it from a level of wow, that threatened my life.
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I think it would be really hard for anybody to go whoa, how's my car?
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If the event was this, deer is kind of coming up towards their windshield.
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Yep, oh yeah, that'd be a whole different experience.
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Yep, yep.
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So I think this is where we're getting into these great details of when people would overuse a word and now it's like, wow, that was, that was intense even, or that was unexpected.
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Yeah, that sucked, that sucked versus well, that was so, that was.
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Oh.
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I'm just traumatized now and this is where now, hopefully, individuals are helping understand it just a bit in terms of the level of threat that we're feeling in that moment, the level of threat that we're witnessing, even the level of threat or harm that we're hearing or harm that we're hearing.
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So those are things that are all part of where somebody can experience this level of what trauma is, depending on what the event is and what their perception and how their understanding of it is.
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So it's in.
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I mean, another way to get really complex is it can also really relate to how much past traumas you've had or hurts that are multiplying and compounding this stress response.
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Okay, so that one's you know so Can you give me an example grew up in a very dysfunctional home where there was, they were witnessing, maybe not experiencing.
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They don't realize that that could.
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That.
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That's part of what trauma could look like, you know, until sometimes, when you listen to what's going on and listen to symptoms.
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They may then go oh wow, okay.
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So so I was actually living in a pretty traumatic child, you know, pretty traumatic.
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I was hearing these things, I was seeing things that were threatening or hurtful, I was scared, I didn't feel safe.
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Where, as adults or when I work with little kids, it's understanding that these areas it's very natural for us to feel.
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It's kind of like when something traumatic happens, you kind of start to view the world as either safe or unsafe, okay, and so there's this feeling of I'm not safe because I feel like I used to be, but this has happened now.
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It changes your worldview.
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Your view?
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Yes, and so after repeated incidents of something happening and they can be different then it's just adding more and more trauma to something that has already happened and that some people actually look more like they have complex trauma.
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Okay, so that's what I mean.
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There's so many levels of where we can talk about.
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Yeah, I've never even heard of complex trauma.
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Right and most people wouldn't.
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Yeah.
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And it's something that, as a clinician who is trained and we work a lot with trauma and try to keep up it's looking at noticing how a lot of things that could look like several things, like mood disorders, sleep disorders, anger issues, poor concentration, difficulties in relationships and all these things sometimes can be looking at a history of how many traumatic events.
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What has led to this and it's not just as simple as oh that's.
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You know you experienced this incident and it's normal for you to have some heightened adjustment, so that's like an acute stress.
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So, like I said, after you hit after somebody maybe hits a deer and it was pretty um scary and could have been life threatening normal for a couple months when you're driving on that open road to get a, to get a bit tense.
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Okay.
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Uh, to have a bit of worry and fear that it may happen again.
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Um, maybe even want to avoid it.
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Have somebody drive for you for a while, right?
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So acute stress as in Within those few months, right.
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Short term, short term, and so that's a lot of people can go through that, where it doesn't turn into this full PTSD, okay, and anxiety, and they're unwanted, but they're popping up, sometimes having dreams or even, you know, kind of having a little bit of flashback.
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You know some people can jump while they're driving, yeah, like reflexes yeah like they see maybe a leaf blowing across, and then they think it's a yeah yeah.
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Yep, so that's that startle response.
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So that's all.
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A lot of times after an event, some people will experience that and it'll naturally just kind of go down after.
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Let's say, they continue to drive the more they face it versus avoid and the more times they drive without it happening.
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Eventually then they can go back down to a baseline.
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Yeah, they become normal, I guess.
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Try to be not so affected where, okay, that happened.
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But eventually they're starting to feel safe again.
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Yeah, for the most part, they can still have intrusive thoughts.
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Oh yes of course, of the incident, but most of the time they're not as startled.
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Their body isn't reacting, they're not jumping, or that avoidance isn't there.
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So they're, oh, okay, yep.
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So all of a sudden they're driving and they're realizing oh wow, I didn't even think about hitting a deer today.
00:23:40.903 --> 00:23:43.720
I just actually made it to you know.
00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:47.236
So it's a natural, that's very common.
00:23:47.236 --> 00:23:57.133
A lot of times that's what people can experience, can experience Now, when those symptoms that I talked about go on.
00:23:57.133 --> 00:24:10.076
Then you're looking at where that event was traumatic enough, where your brain is holding onto it and it's storing it as this fear and the body's storing it and it's very difficult to let it go.
00:24:10.576 --> 00:24:10.777
Yeah.
00:24:11.278 --> 00:24:16.505
You know, it's very difficult to tell yourself well, that's just a memory, it's not going to happen.
00:24:16.505 --> 00:24:22.230
Your brain is, and when we think about it it's almost like the brain doesn't realize.
00:24:22.230 --> 00:24:25.138
It starts to re-experience as if you're there.
00:24:25.579 --> 00:24:30.016
Mm-hmm, and that's all just from my understanding of what you're talking about here.
00:24:30.016 --> 00:24:37.401
That's all just kind of a I want to say, a defense mechanism, in a way to protect ourselves from the world.
00:24:38.069 --> 00:24:39.316
That's a survival mechanism.
00:24:39.316 --> 00:24:50.240
Survival mechanism, yeah, this is our survival and this is the way our body stores terrifying information.
00:24:50.240 --> 00:25:01.865
Yeah, we are built to survive, so when something threatens our life, our existence, then it's something that we take note of.
00:25:01.865 --> 00:25:04.880
We try to remember it the best we can.
00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:08.316
Our body stores it because it's just like.
00:25:08.316 --> 00:25:16.630
This is something that you have to be very aware is out there and for your survival.
00:25:16.951 --> 00:25:24.564
Yep, so I was just thinking of a little example of like assuming we're hunter-gatherers back in the day, there you go.
00:25:24.564 --> 00:25:31.330
And we're picking berries and we hear a stick crack, right, and we turn around.
00:25:31.330 --> 00:25:32.931
It's a bobcat or whatever.
00:25:32.931 --> 00:25:33.050
Right.
00:25:33.050 --> 00:25:33.551
Stick crack, right.
00:25:33.551 --> 00:25:35.051
And we turn around, it's a bobcat or whatever.
00:25:35.051 --> 00:25:35.853
Right, and we get away.
00:25:35.853 --> 00:25:40.855
But every time we hear that stick crack, we get tense, we get your fight or flight.
00:25:40.855 --> 00:25:41.454
Fight or flight.
00:25:41.674 --> 00:25:50.078
Yep, your nervous system is set up to trigger survival mode when we feel threatened.
00:25:50.078 --> 00:26:01.765
And so that stick, you know that crack, you know that, even event happening once turning around and there's a bobcat yeah, that is.
00:26:01.765 --> 00:26:09.749
Even though the bobcat did not attack, the brain thought okay, this right.
00:26:10.432 --> 00:26:11.104
We could die here.
00:26:11.104 --> 00:26:18.737
We could die here, and the nervous system turns on the sympathetic that's your fight or flight.
00:26:18.737 --> 00:26:36.803
And so and there's, that's the thing of a lot of people pair, like in one time incident that may have only happened once in life, but you said every time after that I step on a stick, I'm outside.
00:26:36.803 --> 00:26:43.650
You know, this is way back in the day.
00:26:43.650 --> 00:26:49.638
That's the response that triggers our brain to then think oh, no right, because this one time that bobcat.
00:26:49.638 --> 00:26:52.858
So our brain doesn't know the difference.
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:53.361
Yeah.
00:26:53.931 --> 00:26:55.316
It re-experiences that.
00:26:55.336 --> 00:26:55.978
Just reacting.
00:26:56.258 --> 00:27:00.419
Reacting, even though you turn around, there's nothing there.
00:27:00.419 --> 00:27:02.104
Heart's racing.
00:27:02.104 --> 00:27:03.207
You're ready to run?
00:27:03.207 --> 00:27:08.080
Some people just run, yeah, and that's the flight.
00:27:08.080 --> 00:27:17.141
So, individuals, when we're feeling threatened, you know, a lot of people say, oh boy, I just started yelling or I just start punching, yeah.
00:27:18.788 --> 00:27:19.169
Okay.
00:27:19.288 --> 00:27:21.255
That's the fight, that's the fight.
00:27:21.255 --> 00:27:27.317
And so, bobcat, you either have to fight that off or you have to run away.
00:27:27.965 --> 00:27:28.960
Freeze isn't an option here.
00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:29.265
I don't think.
00:27:30.167 --> 00:27:31.211
Freeze is an option.
00:27:31.231 --> 00:27:33.330
Oh, it is Many people are frozen.
00:27:33.330 --> 00:27:34.675
Yeah.
00:27:35.025 --> 00:27:49.567
They're standing and they're frozen frozen.
00:27:49.567 --> 00:27:54.680
So those are the situations that can come up where you're scared and your body is putting you in that safety mode of just freeze.
00:27:54.680 --> 00:28:00.569
And that's the piece of understanding when a lot of people are re-traumatized.
00:28:00.569 --> 00:28:07.921
You know, when I said some people can go through multiple traumas and not even realize they're kind of in these.
00:28:07.921 --> 00:28:13.217
It's like how come I'm not learning from some of these things that are happening?
00:28:13.217 --> 00:28:16.996
Why am I kind of in the same situation and I'm traumatized again?
00:28:16.996 --> 00:28:20.887
Some of these individuals, they're in a freeze mode.
00:28:20.907 --> 00:28:22.189
Yeah, Some of these individuals.
00:28:22.189 --> 00:28:23.971
They're in a freeze mode.
00:28:23.990 --> 00:28:43.990
Yeah, so they're experiencing the trauma and they're in a situation and they could be re-traumatized because they just stop freeze and they're unable to react, they're unable to fight something off, they're unable to run, their system is freezing.
00:28:43.990 --> 00:28:45.192
Now that's a whole nother.
00:28:45.192 --> 00:28:47.647
So I'm just going to give us to start to think about that a bit.
00:28:47.688 --> 00:28:51.476
Yep, Okay, Wow, Really good.
00:28:51.476 --> 00:28:52.838
I mean, this is really.
00:28:52.838 --> 00:29:09.622
I know you have a lot of questions that are really good and I think that for now we can at least just say we started to talk about what PTSD is and that's called post-traumatic stress disorder.
00:29:09.622 --> 00:29:12.071
I don't even know if I said that in the beginning.
00:29:12.493 --> 00:29:13.075
I don't remember.
00:29:13.825 --> 00:29:25.890
And so I apologize to our listeners, but what that is is the experience of something that is traumatic, and we've went through that.
00:29:25.890 --> 00:29:34.675
Some people just find them as little T's or big T's, where it's like a big T could be a major, significant trauma.
00:29:34.675 --> 00:29:56.792
Little T's could be something that was traumatic, scary, yet maybe not as intense, definitely not as intense or life altering, and so that one I do struggle with that when I it's the way that they talk about it in you know psychology and it's a way to try to help people understand.
00:29:56.792 --> 00:30:00.348
Yet that's where I said it's individual.
00:30:00.348 --> 00:30:01.892
So what could be?
00:30:01.892 --> 00:30:04.637
I may consider a little T for my life.
00:30:05.246 --> 00:30:23.728
My client may be looking at that as a big T because, based off of their level, of how they interpret it, or not a T at all, or it could you know, yes, it could be well, was that more of a psychological injury?
00:30:23.728 --> 00:30:27.990
Was that more of a really scary thing that happened versus.
00:30:27.990 --> 00:30:37.557
You know that's part of when you're with the therapist, being able to have those discussions and identify what all the different criteria.
00:30:37.557 --> 00:30:38.617
You know what's happening here.
00:30:38.617 --> 00:30:40.199
What all the different criteria.
00:30:40.199 --> 00:30:42.701
You know what's happening here.
00:30:42.701 --> 00:30:45.762
How much has this impacted your life?
00:30:45.762 --> 00:30:49.887
What part of your safety was threatened.
00:30:49.887 --> 00:30:53.096
How much control did you feel like you had or lacked?
00:30:53.236 --> 00:30:57.547
Oh, control, yeah that probably plays a big part in all this too.
00:30:57.547 --> 00:31:22.787
Avoidance, you know, it's something like I remember I said it's something that just scares the shit out of you, it shocks your system and it can really take apart and disable all of your coping.
00:31:22.787 --> 00:31:23.748
That's another thing where some people are like.
00:31:23.748 --> 00:31:26.109
This has shaken me so much the stuff that used to work for me to feel better isn't working.
00:31:26.109 --> 00:31:30.134
My body is, you know, experiencing this, and those are some of the symptoms.
00:31:30.835 --> 00:31:48.819
Avoidance is a big one, avoidance of anything that makes you remember, and it could be one event, it could be multiple events, it could be some people could have a combination of a lot of little T's and then a couple big T's.
00:31:48.819 --> 00:32:07.549
Some people can have a massive T with a therapist who knows a lot about trauma.
00:32:07.549 --> 00:32:29.048
I think is really important because we're trained in so many different areas and I think that trauma really becomes almost an area of specialty where you really want somebody at least who is very aware of the different levels and how complex it could become, right, so, right now.
00:32:29.048 --> 00:32:31.413
That was a really good conversation.
00:32:31.413 --> 00:32:33.858
Thank you for listening.
00:32:33.858 --> 00:32:34.881
I do.
00:32:34.881 --> 00:32:40.411
There is a national support for PTSD.
00:32:40.411 --> 00:32:46.039
Definitely go online and do some more reading on this.
00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:52.617
Talk to professionals, you know to understand this more.
00:32:52.617 --> 00:32:57.457
Ptsd is definitely something you don't want to tackle alone.
00:32:57.457 --> 00:33:07.619
This is something that support and guidance and working with somebody who knows is a big part of understanding it and how to even treat it.
00:33:08.685 --> 00:33:09.469
Very treatable.
00:33:09.469 --> 00:33:10.833
Very treatable.
00:33:10.932 --> 00:33:11.756
Very treatable.
00:33:14.049 --> 00:33:16.214
Oh, I just kind of figured it'd be complex.
00:33:16.214 --> 00:33:19.368
Well, or it's complex but treatable.
00:33:19.368 --> 00:33:20.413
Maybe is that the.
00:33:20.413 --> 00:33:20.973
There you go.
00:33:21.134 --> 00:33:21.355
Oh, okay.
00:33:21.355 --> 00:33:27.438
And when I say treatable, there are treatments out there for PTSD.
00:33:27.438 --> 00:33:31.596
Yeah, there are treatments out there for acute stress.
00:33:31.596 --> 00:33:41.549
There are treatments out there for those people who are having stress reaction and they're not fully meeting criteria for PTSD.
00:33:41.549 --> 00:33:49.858
They're not fully meeting criteria for PTSD, but they're having a lot of stressful reaction related to something that went on in life.
00:33:50.598 --> 00:33:52.500
So there's a path to some kind of relief.
00:33:52.500 --> 00:33:57.048
Yes, always and at every level, I think.
00:33:57.068 --> 00:34:05.327
But there's a massive T, little t, not a T at all tea, little tea, not a tea at all and not a tea at all.
00:34:05.327 --> 00:34:08.293
There's still those hurts and injuries that are psychologically impacting us.
00:34:08.293 --> 00:34:23.740
So those could be things like applying for that job you really wanted and not getting, and feeling that devastation, fear, anxiety, changes in income.
00:34:23.740 --> 00:34:25.322
You know all those kinds of stress.
00:34:25.322 --> 00:34:33.396
Those are all things that can cause a lot, of, a lot of these fear and anxious symptoms.
00:34:33.396 --> 00:34:42.798
And then so that's how they start to see well, what's what's a life stressor, what's something that's happening around me.
00:34:42.798 --> 00:34:57.978
Life stressor, what's something that's happening around me and what is something that is actually something that is traumatic and has caused me to either witness or experience something life-threatening, and process that at such a higher level of what's going on.
00:34:57.978 --> 00:35:03.130
Very good, okay.
00:35:03.130 --> 00:35:05.719
So thank you for listening.
00:35:05.818 --> 00:35:12.773
I know there's a lot of questions, but we will definitely be, um, uh, having a lot more conversations on this.
00:35:12.773 --> 00:35:15.679
I we won't do them all in a row.
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:18.168
I mean these are psychologists say.
00:35:18.168 --> 00:35:25.179
We like to change it up every episode, but we will definitely be revisiting this.
00:35:25.179 --> 00:35:39.371
Some topics of historical trauma, generational trauma, all of the great stuff for Indian country that we need to be talking about with historical trauma.
00:35:39.371 --> 00:35:54.639
So today we were keeping it very clinical, on what I would do as a psychologist and how I would explain it in terms of looking at what could be PTSD versus like a stress reaction.
00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:57.472
Great questions, harold, thank you.
00:35:57.472 --> 00:36:05.411
So PS, trauma and life hurts can be very challenging for us.
00:36:05.411 --> 00:36:16.942
Yet it's definitely something that there's treatment, there are things to do to help us cope and get through these traumas in life.
00:36:16.942 --> 00:36:19.025
Miigwech you.
00:00:00.100 --> 00:00:02.388
The following is a series of candid conversations.
00:00:02.388 --> 00:00:08.407
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00:00:08.407 --> 00:00:15.026
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00:00:30.899 --> 00:00:33.207
Bonjour, welcome to Psychologist Say, a podcast where I talk about the psychology of everyday living.
00:00:33.207 --> 00:00:35.673
I'm your host, Dr Tammy, and I'm joined by co-host Harold.
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How are you doing today, Harold?
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I'm doing great, dr Tammy, how are you?
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I'm awesome.
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I know today we actually are going to have a conversation that's a bit of a heavy hitter, I would call it.
00:00:48.375 --> 00:01:09.510
It's focusing on trauma a bit, and so I just want to have a conversation about that, especially because it is National Awareness Month for post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, and so I think it's a really good time for us to kind of explain what that is.
00:01:09.510 --> 00:01:13.450
I don't want to go into a whole lot of detail.
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I just want to start a small conversation I know it's something that is very complex and will take multiple episodes to talk about all of the different angles associated with what it is and the different levels and the way that trauma can affect somebody.
00:01:33.960 --> 00:01:39.513
Right, so trauma specifically, or are we talking about PTSD?
00:01:40.340 --> 00:01:44.066
Right, great question, so let's just get right into it.
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So when somebody experiences a trauma and now for our listeners, again, remember this is a trigger warning.
00:01:52.210 --> 00:02:07.572
We're not purposely trying to bring up memories or have people feel uncomfortable, yet just talking about trauma and exploring some of this and listening can be a bit triggering for people.
00:02:07.572 --> 00:02:23.534
So I just want to put that disclaimer out there Be very aware of what your needs are and when you're listening, you can always take a break, pause, seek out resources online if you're feeling concerned about anything like this.
00:02:23.534 --> 00:02:26.229
So I just want to do that again this episode.
00:02:26.229 --> 00:02:32.711
Harold did have an experience where he felt a bit activated, right, oh, for sure.
00:02:33.032 --> 00:02:44.020
Okay, good, so that's an important thing I think that I even want to talk about is anytime that you listen to individuals talking about something traumatic.
00:02:44.020 --> 00:02:56.015
So something that's traumatic is something that has, it's an injury, it's a hurt that is big enough to impact and kind of shake you a bit.
00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:58.527
Like the injury of a mind.
00:03:00.260 --> 00:03:00.800
Definitely.
00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:10.215
I mean part of trauma impacts the way your brain encodes information, what it remembers, what it stores, and it impacts your emotion.
00:03:10.215 --> 00:03:47.405
But it also is really visceral and it's stored in your body, is hurtful and opposite of what you would expect to happen, something that you are feeling very threatened or danger and extreme heightened, of not feeling safe because of an incident, and that's something that people can refer to as an actual trauma and that's something that people can refer to as an actual trauma.
00:03:47.405 --> 00:03:53.989
And so a trauma is something that basically you experience, that's living it.
00:03:53.989 --> 00:04:15.501
It can be vicarious, where it's happening to somebody else, but you're witnessing it, okay, or you're even hearing it, so it's a sensory experience that basically scares the shit out of you.
00:04:15.501 --> 00:04:19.483
I mean that's you know, for lack of a better way to explain it.
00:04:19.483 --> 00:04:25.007
It shakes you to your core, it scares you, okay.
00:04:40.723 --> 00:04:42.307
So kind of summarize what you just said.
00:04:42.307 --> 00:04:48.992
There it's some kind of terrifying situation that you may not experience yourself.
00:04:48.992 --> 00:04:56.810
You could witness it or hear it, and that memory is stored in your mind and body.
00:04:56.810 --> 00:04:58.593
Perfect, okay.
00:04:59.322 --> 00:05:02.968
It's a sensory, it is a mental picture.
00:05:02.968 --> 00:05:09.547
It is something that your body is, your brain is saying okay, that was dangerous.
00:05:09.547 --> 00:05:16.516
We need to remember every aspect of it to the best of our ability so that we can avoid that in the future.
00:05:16.939 --> 00:05:22.432
So dangerous, so does it necessarily have to be something that a dangerous situation?
00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:38.983
something that a dangerous situation well and and well, it's pairing it with something um like so, when we look at the the term ptsd, it's experiencing something, or seeing something, or feeling something, where you you were felt threatened for your life.
00:05:38.983 --> 00:05:40.625
Okay, so it's.
00:05:40.625 --> 00:05:50.175
It's something that shocked your system and really had you fearful for your survival in that mode.
00:05:50.576 --> 00:05:50.757
Yeah.
00:05:50.939 --> 00:05:55.127
So that's where you can say, okay, oh, this.
00:05:55.127 --> 00:06:12.379
You know, I never experienced that, but, boy, I've seen that we can witness something where somebody else was in a situation where they maybe were threatened, and it can scare our, shock, our system as well.
00:06:12.579 --> 00:06:17.512
So we live almost like vicariously through that another person's experience, in a way.
00:06:17.939 --> 00:06:20.120
Right, that's one way and many people don't.
00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:21.062
They aren't aware of that.
00:06:21.062 --> 00:06:21.742
Many people don't.
00:06:21.742 --> 00:06:22.742
They aren't aware of that.
00:06:22.742 --> 00:06:30.829
So I'll often tell people if you can avoid looking at things, if you know.
00:06:30.829 --> 00:06:38.117
It's a tendency sometimes when there's something that happened, it could be like maybe a motor vehicle accident.
00:06:38.117 --> 00:06:51.211
Yeah, I would actually say look away, you know, if it's something that where it's already, where people are taking care of it, you know the authorities right If you don't have the option to act.
00:06:51.459 --> 00:06:52.262
Right, there you go.
00:06:52.262 --> 00:06:53.084
Perfect, thank you.
00:06:53.084 --> 00:07:13.505
And so it's more about protect yourself, because your brain will encode that you may see something that is difficult for you to forget, and your brain will put you in that situation and it can re-experience that at a later date.
00:07:13.505 --> 00:07:15.569
And so it's almost.
00:07:15.569 --> 00:07:19.600
It's where it's good to know this.
00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:32.190
Even watching certain movies can be very triggering for some people, yeah, and they can get activated and I would then say, okay, so why are you watching that?
00:07:32.190 --> 00:07:39.492
Then, if it is having this response to you, can you limit your exposure to that versus?
00:07:39.992 --> 00:07:40.694
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:40.694 --> 00:07:45.583
So to build off of that, let's use the car accident example.
00:07:45.583 --> 00:07:51.687
Someone experienced or saw a car accident and saw something that changed them.
00:07:51.687 --> 00:07:59.012
They could experience that when watching a movie.
00:07:59.951 --> 00:08:09.137
They may not know that it's related to that, but that's kind of this awareness of vicarious.
00:08:09.137 --> 00:08:12.550
So it's being very aware of what you're listening to.
00:08:12.550 --> 00:08:32.369
When somebody else has been hurt or traumatized or experienced something very difficult and they want to talk to you about it, and they want to talk to you about it, that's good awareness that you may be impacted and feel some of that trauma by listening to the details.
00:08:32.369 --> 00:08:38.671
Your brain starts to listen to this information and it can start to impact you.
00:08:38.671 --> 00:08:44.990
Yeah, so those are the things that I think are and that's why I started off with.
00:08:44.990 --> 00:09:23.436
Today we're talking a bit about trauma because it is PTSD Awareness Month, but I'm very aware that we have to take this talk very slow and just get started a bit with it, because I believe so many people are not aware of how triggers work and that's part of, I think, our professional responsibility as psychologists and therapists is to make sure you know that vulnerability that people could have when you're starting to talk about trauma and even explaining it.
00:09:23.775 --> 00:09:27.097
Yeah, people could have when you're starting to talk about trauma and even explaining it.
00:09:27.097 --> 00:09:27.839
Yeah, so it's a fine.
00:09:27.839 --> 00:09:29.659
It's like I'm trying to balance this.
00:09:29.659 --> 00:09:38.029
We're giving some information without overloading right now, because I know each episode on.
00:09:38.029 --> 00:10:04.991
Psychologists say we can take this from another avenue and people can learn and process and digest a little bit more, especially for those people who are very unfamiliar with what trauma is, what it looks like in their life, and so even my trainings, I start off with a huge disclaimer and trying to teach the grounding and understanding of what we are about to talk about before I start talking about it.
00:10:07.403 --> 00:10:07.563
Right.
00:10:07.563 --> 00:10:27.860
So for somebody who may have had a traumatic experience and they're, maybe, they're unsure of, maybe, how it affects them, or if it is affecting them, how do they come to the realization that maybe it was stemming from that traumatic event, mm-hmm so there's something that's very common After we experience something, how did they come to the realization that maybe it was stemming from that traumatic event?
00:10:27.980 --> 00:10:41.115
So there's something that's very common After we experience something that is and I can call it a hurt or an injury, because sometimes we can have these hurts that don't necessarily qualify as a trauma, okay.
00:10:41.115 --> 00:11:01.092
And so a trauma, something that was yucky, it didn't feel good, it hurt us, yet we wouldn't define that as traumatic unless it was something that basically, like what I said, shook you to your core, and so the word traumatic is way overused in our society.
00:11:01.460 --> 00:11:02.947
I kind of always thought that yeah.
00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:03.821
Yeah.
00:11:03.821 --> 00:11:07.802
So like people get oh my gosh, that was traumatic.
00:11:07.802 --> 00:11:16.869
Yeah, you know, I hear that and I think well, you know, everybody gets to define traumatic, so it's not my job to say no, that's not traumatic for you.
00:11:17.671 --> 00:11:20.403
But it's as a do you get what I'm saying?
00:11:20.403 --> 00:11:21.385
Yeah, I got an example.
00:11:21.385 --> 00:11:21.586
Let's.
00:11:21.586 --> 00:11:30.432
Let's say, say somebody works really hard at making the local sports team and they don't make it, and they're really hurt by that.
00:11:30.432 --> 00:11:34.327
Okay, that's not traumatic, right?
00:11:34.327 --> 00:11:36.052
It should be something else.
00:11:36.940 --> 00:11:39.724
Boy, that would be a tough one for me as a therapist.
00:11:39.724 --> 00:11:43.048
I think I would struggle with that.
00:11:43.048 --> 00:11:48.075
To say that, no, I would say that's a hurt.
00:11:48.075 --> 00:11:55.013
Yeah, now remember, trauma is something that's it feels life-threatening.
00:11:55.013 --> 00:12:03.110
Okay, boy, that was an emotionally jarring.
00:12:03.110 --> 00:12:06.413
That really hurt that.
00:12:06.413 --> 00:12:08.155
I didn't make that team.
00:12:08.155 --> 00:12:10.100
Yeah, versus.
00:12:10.100 --> 00:12:14.971
I just experienced something that threatened my life.
00:12:15.011 --> 00:12:15.833
Yeah, I could have died.
00:12:16.061 --> 00:12:20.850
I could have died, yeah, or I could have been severely injured.
00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:22.923
Yeah injured.
00:12:23.364 --> 00:12:35.399
So that's where I think people really have to look at the difference between something that is emotionally difficult and really sucks that really sucks.
00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:38.644
That I didn't make the team versus.
00:12:38.644 --> 00:12:45.111
That was so traumatic that I'm shaken to my core and I'm maybe having trouble sleeping.
00:12:45.111 --> 00:12:48.600
I'm scared to do the things I used to do.
00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:55.231
I'm now avoiding any thoughts or situations associated with this.
00:12:55.231 --> 00:13:05.679
So that's the kind of difference where PTSD can be associated with those kind of factors.
00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:28.390
So even somebody let's say, let's go back to a vehicle accident where and this is North Dakota, it's very common where you could be driving and you hit a deer, oh yeah, that can be very traumatic to be driving in.
00:13:28.390 --> 00:14:06.472
This unpredictable event happens, and if it was a significant hit that triggered and jarred and could have been life-threatening and for some it is, it results in that, and for some it is, it results in that and then.
00:14:06.472 --> 00:14:13.903
So it is very common for the next time you drive, it's common for some people to have that reaction of oh my gosh, increased heart rate, nervousness, scanning, hitting the brakes more often it's common to have that increased anxiety, stress and alertfulness after something like that would happen, and would that occur, like every time they drive, or maybe just now and then even?
00:14:14.524 --> 00:14:19.240
I think that is more where it's with, if it's associated with, trauma.
00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:23.284
A lot of times it's avoidance of the situation.
00:14:23.284 --> 00:14:30.816
So if they were driving in town maybe, where they haven't seen deer before, it wouldn't happen.
00:14:30.816 --> 00:14:37.634
But if they were on the highway, the open road where the event would have taken place.
00:14:37.653 --> 00:14:38.054
There you go.
00:14:40.102 --> 00:14:45.592
So those are the trigger warnings where your brain starts to scan and go okay, we're on the open road.
00:14:45.592 --> 00:14:45.933
Now.
00:14:45.933 --> 00:14:49.125
This was the last time you were on a road like this.
00:14:49.125 --> 00:14:51.168
This deer came out, hit your car.
00:14:51.168 --> 00:14:52.793
So guess what?
00:14:52.793 --> 00:15:05.405
I'm going to have you very scared and worried and hypervigilant, like very aware, so that you can be prepared and try to basically your mind's thinking.
00:15:05.405 --> 00:15:07.889
I can try to avoid doing this again.
00:15:07.889 --> 00:15:14.283
Yet what our body's doing is re-experiencing it as if it's happening.
00:15:14.570 --> 00:15:15.995
Yeah, so you're constantly on edge.
00:15:16.129 --> 00:15:25.418
You're on edge, you're nervous, and this isn't everybody, remember, yep, some people can hit a deer and go oh wow, that was horrific.
00:15:25.980 --> 00:15:26.821
Is my car okay?
00:15:26.821 --> 00:15:28.202
Is my car okay?
00:15:28.604 --> 00:15:29.345
Good example.
00:15:29.345 --> 00:15:31.618
There are people and that's okay.
00:15:31.618 --> 00:15:34.697
I wish I could be more like that.
00:15:34.697 --> 00:15:38.403
You know where it's, it's, it's my brain goes oh okay.
00:15:38.403 --> 00:15:48.932
Well, now you got to go through insurance and and not maybe focus on, wow, I could have, I could have lost my life, I could have hurt somebody else, what if you know?
00:15:48.932 --> 00:15:51.235
What if, what if I swear you know?
00:15:51.235 --> 00:15:58.765
And so all these like really scary thoughts that accompany an event like that.
00:15:58.765 --> 00:16:06.003
So it is a matter of how people perceive and what they focus on.
00:16:06.484 --> 00:16:18.820
So okay, so I hit a deer last year, okay, and my response was like I just said, you know, is my truck, okay, oh man, just this little panel came off, oh, we're good, just kept driving.
00:16:18.820 --> 00:16:25.663
So you could have, let's say, a traumatic experience, but not feel trauma, or not.
00:16:26.230 --> 00:16:29.558
Right, and with that you know you could look at that as well.
00:16:29.558 --> 00:16:30.710
That was a that.
00:16:30.710 --> 00:16:32.114
Maybe that wasn't traumatic.
00:16:32.114 --> 00:16:34.099
You hit it on the side.
00:16:34.099 --> 00:16:35.402
Your car was dent.
00:16:35.402 --> 00:16:46.278
Now, if we took that same incident with somebody else and where the deer hit them straight, went through the windshield or something.
00:16:46.518 --> 00:16:52.517
So that's where you start to look at it from a level of wow, that threatened my life.
00:16:52.517 --> 00:16:58.054
I think it would be really hard for anybody to go whoa, how's my car?
00:16:58.054 --> 00:17:02.678
If the event was this, deer is kind of coming up towards their windshield.
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:04.875
Yep, oh yeah, that'd be a whole different experience.
00:17:04.935 --> 00:17:05.657
Yep, yep.
00:17:05.657 --> 00:17:20.239
So I think this is where we're getting into these great details of when people would overuse a word and now it's like, wow, that was, that was intense even, or that was unexpected.
00:17:20.239 --> 00:17:26.053
Yeah, that sucked, that sucked versus well, that was so, that was.
00:17:26.053 --> 00:17:26.913
Oh.
00:17:26.913 --> 00:17:57.371
I'm just traumatized now and this is where now, hopefully, individuals are helping understand it just a bit in terms of the level of threat that we're feeling in that moment, the level of threat that we're witnessing, even the level of threat or harm that we're hearing or harm that we're hearing.
00:17:57.371 --> 00:18:08.653
So those are things that are all part of where somebody can experience this level of what trauma is, depending on what the event is and what their perception and how their understanding of it is.
00:18:08.653 --> 00:18:09.294
So it's in.
00:18:09.294 --> 00:18:26.487
I mean, another way to get really complex is it can also really relate to how much past traumas you've had or hurts that are multiplying and compounding this stress response.
00:18:26.487 --> 00:18:55.849
Okay, so that one's you know so Can you give me an example grew up in a very dysfunctional home where there was, they were witnessing, maybe not experiencing.
00:18:57.614 --> 00:18:59.116
They don't realize that that could.
00:18:59.116 --> 00:18:59.657
That.
00:18:59.657 --> 00:19:07.910
That's part of what trauma could look like, you know, until sometimes, when you listen to what's going on and listen to symptoms.
00:19:07.910 --> 00:19:10.374
They may then go oh wow, okay.
00:19:10.374 --> 00:19:17.045
So so I was actually living in a pretty traumatic child, you know, pretty traumatic.
00:19:17.045 --> 00:19:25.939
I was hearing these things, I was seeing things that were threatening or hurtful, I was scared, I didn't feel safe.
00:19:25.939 --> 00:19:46.059
Where, as adults or when I work with little kids, it's understanding that these areas it's very natural for us to feel.
00:19:46.059 --> 00:20:05.664
It's kind of like when something traumatic happens, you kind of start to view the world as either safe or unsafe, okay, and so there's this feeling of I'm not safe because I feel like I used to be, but this has happened now.
00:20:06.090 --> 00:20:07.336
It changes your worldview.
00:20:07.932 --> 00:20:08.453
Your view?
00:20:08.453 --> 00:20:30.622
Yes, and so after repeated incidents of something happening and they can be different then it's just adding more and more trauma to something that has already happened and that some people actually look more like they have complex trauma.
00:20:30.622 --> 00:20:33.617
Okay, so that's what I mean.
00:20:33.617 --> 00:20:37.440
There's so many levels of where we can talk about.
00:20:37.670 --> 00:20:39.416
Yeah, I've never even heard of complex trauma.
00:20:39.617 --> 00:20:42.718
Right and most people wouldn't.
00:20:43.019 --> 00:20:43.140
Yeah.
00:20:44.971 --> 00:21:18.022
And it's something that, as a clinician who is trained and we work a lot with trauma and try to keep up it's looking at noticing how a lot of things that could look like several things, like mood disorders, sleep disorders, anger issues, poor concentration, difficulties in relationships and all these things sometimes can be looking at a history of how many traumatic events.
00:21:18.022 --> 00:21:24.558
What has led to this and it's not just as simple as oh that's.
00:21:24.558 --> 00:21:35.338
You know you experienced this incident and it's normal for you to have some heightened adjustment, so that's like an acute stress.
00:21:35.338 --> 00:21:47.377
So, like I said, after you hit after somebody maybe hits a deer and it was pretty um scary and could have been life threatening normal for a couple months when you're driving on that open road to get a, to get a bit tense.
00:21:47.679 --> 00:21:47.900
Okay.
00:21:48.750 --> 00:21:51.853
Uh, to have a bit of worry and fear that it may happen again.
00:21:51.853 --> 00:21:54.194
Um, maybe even want to avoid it.
00:21:54.194 --> 00:21:56.596
Have somebody drive for you for a while, right?
00:21:57.037 --> 00:22:00.339
So acute stress as in Within those few months, right.
00:22:00.460 --> 00:22:38.647
Short term, short term, and so that's a lot of people can go through that, where it doesn't turn into this full PTSD, okay, and anxiety, and they're unwanted, but they're popping up, sometimes having dreams or even, you know, kind of having a little bit of flashback.
00:22:38.647 --> 00:22:47.061
You know some people can jump while they're driving, yeah, like reflexes yeah like they see maybe a leaf blowing across, and then they think it's a yeah yeah.
00:22:47.230 --> 00:22:48.990
Yep, so that's that startle response.
00:22:48.990 --> 00:22:51.192
So that's all.
00:22:51.192 --> 00:22:57.839
A lot of times after an event, some people will experience that and it'll naturally just kind of go down after.
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:06.717
Let's say, they continue to drive the more they face it versus avoid and the more times they drive without it happening.
00:23:06.717 --> 00:23:09.903
Eventually then they can go back down to a baseline.
00:23:10.371 --> 00:23:13.760
Yeah, they become normal, I guess.
00:23:14.631 --> 00:23:17.296
Try to be not so affected where, okay, that happened.
00:23:17.296 --> 00:23:20.542
But eventually they're starting to feel safe again.
00:23:20.784 --> 00:23:23.604
Yeah, for the most part, they can still have intrusive thoughts.
00:23:23.604 --> 00:23:27.058
Oh yes of course, of the incident, but most of the time they're not as startled.
00:23:27.391 --> 00:23:32.339
Their body isn't reacting, they're not jumping, or that avoidance isn't there.
00:23:32.339 --> 00:23:35.179
So they're, oh, okay, yep.
00:23:35.179 --> 00:23:40.903
So all of a sudden they're driving and they're realizing oh wow, I didn't even think about hitting a deer today.
00:23:40.903 --> 00:23:43.720
I just actually made it to you know.
00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:47.236
So it's a natural, that's very common.
00:23:47.236 --> 00:23:57.133
A lot of times that's what people can experience, can experience Now, when those symptoms that I talked about go on.
00:23:57.133 --> 00:24:10.076
Then you're looking at where that event was traumatic enough, where your brain is holding onto it and it's storing it as this fear and the body's storing it and it's very difficult to let it go.
00:24:10.576 --> 00:24:10.777
Yeah.
00:24:11.278 --> 00:24:16.505
You know, it's very difficult to tell yourself well, that's just a memory, it's not going to happen.
00:24:16.505 --> 00:24:22.230
Your brain is, and when we think about it it's almost like the brain doesn't realize.
00:24:22.230 --> 00:24:25.138
It starts to re-experience as if you're there.
00:24:25.579 --> 00:24:30.016
Mm-hmm, and that's all just from my understanding of what you're talking about here.
00:24:30.016 --> 00:24:37.401
That's all just kind of a I want to say, a defense mechanism, in a way to protect ourselves from the world.
00:24:38.069 --> 00:24:39.316
That's a survival mechanism.
00:24:39.316 --> 00:24:50.240
Survival mechanism, yeah, this is our survival and this is the way our body stores terrifying information.
00:24:50.240 --> 00:25:01.865
Yeah, we are built to survive, so when something threatens our life, our existence, then it's something that we take note of.
00:25:01.865 --> 00:25:04.880
We try to remember it the best we can.
00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:08.316
Our body stores it because it's just like.
00:25:08.316 --> 00:25:16.630
This is something that you have to be very aware is out there and for your survival.
00:25:16.951 --> 00:25:24.564
Yep, so I was just thinking of a little example of like assuming we're hunter-gatherers back in the day, there you go.
00:25:24.564 --> 00:25:31.330
And we're picking berries and we hear a stick crack, right, and we turn around.
00:25:31.330 --> 00:25:32.931
It's a bobcat or whatever.
00:25:32.931 --> 00:25:33.050
Right.
00:25:33.050 --> 00:25:33.551
Stick crack, right.
00:25:33.551 --> 00:25:35.051
And we turn around, it's a bobcat or whatever.
00:25:35.051 --> 00:25:35.853
Right, and we get away.
00:25:35.853 --> 00:25:40.855
But every time we hear that stick crack, we get tense, we get your fight or flight.
00:25:40.855 --> 00:25:41.454
Fight or flight.
00:25:41.674 --> 00:25:50.078
Yep, your nervous system is set up to trigger survival mode when we feel threatened.
00:25:50.078 --> 00:26:01.765
And so that stick, you know that crack, you know that, even event happening once turning around and there's a bobcat yeah, that is.
00:26:01.765 --> 00:26:09.749
Even though the bobcat did not attack, the brain thought okay, this right.
00:26:10.432 --> 00:26:11.104
We could die here.
00:26:11.104 --> 00:26:18.737
We could die here, and the nervous system turns on the sympathetic that's your fight or flight.
00:26:18.737 --> 00:26:36.803
And so and there's, that's the thing of a lot of people pair, like in one time incident that may have only happened once in life, but you said every time after that I step on a stick, I'm outside.
00:26:36.803 --> 00:26:43.650
You know, this is way back in the day.
00:26:43.650 --> 00:26:49.638
That's the response that triggers our brain to then think oh, no right, because this one time that bobcat.
00:26:49.638 --> 00:26:52.858
So our brain doesn't know the difference.
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:53.361
Yeah.
00:26:53.931 --> 00:26:55.316
It re-experiences that.
00:26:55.336 --> 00:26:55.978
Just reacting.
00:26:56.258 --> 00:27:00.419
Reacting, even though you turn around, there's nothing there.
00:27:00.419 --> 00:27:02.104
Heart's racing.
00:27:02.104 --> 00:27:03.207
You're ready to run?
00:27:03.207 --> 00:27:08.080
Some people just run, yeah, and that's the flight.
00:27:08.080 --> 00:27:17.141
So, individuals, when we're feeling threatened, you know, a lot of people say, oh boy, I just started yelling or I just start punching, yeah.
00:27:18.788 --> 00:27:19.169
Okay.
00:27:19.288 --> 00:27:21.255
That's the fight, that's the fight.
00:27:21.255 --> 00:27:27.317
And so, bobcat, you either have to fight that off or you have to run away.
00:27:27.965 --> 00:27:28.960
Freeze isn't an option here.
00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:29.265
I don't think.
00:27:30.167 --> 00:27:31.211
Freeze is an option.
00:27:31.231 --> 00:27:33.330
Oh, it is Many people are frozen.
00:27:33.330 --> 00:27:34.675
Yeah.
00:27:35.025 --> 00:27:49.567
They're standing and they're frozen frozen.
00:27:49.567 --> 00:27:54.680
So those are the situations that can come up where you're scared and your body is putting you in that safety mode of just freeze.
00:27:54.680 --> 00:28:00.569
And that's the piece of understanding when a lot of people are re-traumatized.
00:28:00.569 --> 00:28:07.921
You know, when I said some people can go through multiple traumas and not even realize they're kind of in these.
00:28:07.921 --> 00:28:13.217
It's like how come I'm not learning from some of these things that are happening?
00:28:13.217 --> 00:28:16.996
Why am I kind of in the same situation and I'm traumatized again?
00:28:16.996 --> 00:28:20.887
Some of these individuals, they're in a freeze mode.
00:28:20.907 --> 00:28:22.189
Yeah, Some of these individuals.
00:28:22.189 --> 00:28:23.971
They're in a freeze mode.
00:28:23.990 --> 00:28:43.990
Yeah, so they're experiencing the trauma and they're in a situation and they could be re-traumatized because they just stop freeze and they're unable to react, they're unable to fight something off, they're unable to run, their system is freezing.
00:28:43.990 --> 00:28:45.192
Now that's a whole nother.
00:28:45.192 --> 00:28:47.647
So I'm just going to give us to start to think about that a bit.
00:28:47.688 --> 00:28:51.476
Yep, Okay, Wow, Really good.
00:28:51.476 --> 00:28:52.838
I mean, this is really.
00:28:52.838 --> 00:29:09.622
I know you have a lot of questions that are really good and I think that for now we can at least just say we started to talk about what PTSD is and that's called post-traumatic stress disorder.
00:29:09.622 --> 00:29:12.071
I don't even know if I said that in the beginning.
00:29:12.493 --> 00:29:13.075
I don't remember.
00:29:13.825 --> 00:29:25.890
And so I apologize to our listeners, but what that is is the experience of something that is traumatic, and we've went through that.
00:29:25.890 --> 00:29:34.675
Some people just find them as little T's or big T's, where it's like a big T could be a major, significant trauma.
00:29:34.675 --> 00:29:56.792
Little T's could be something that was traumatic, scary, yet maybe not as intense, definitely not as intense or life altering, and so that one I do struggle with that when I it's the way that they talk about it in you know psychology and it's a way to try to help people understand.
00:29:56.792 --> 00:30:00.348
Yet that's where I said it's individual.
00:30:00.348 --> 00:30:01.892
So what could be?
00:30:01.892 --> 00:30:04.637
I may consider a little T for my life.
00:30:05.246 --> 00:30:23.728
My client may be looking at that as a big T because, based off of their level, of how they interpret it, or not a T at all, or it could you know, yes, it could be well, was that more of a psychological injury?
00:30:23.728 --> 00:30:27.990
Was that more of a really scary thing that happened versus.
00:30:27.990 --> 00:30:37.557
You know that's part of when you're with the therapist, being able to have those discussions and identify what all the different criteria.
00:30:37.557 --> 00:30:38.617
You know what's happening here.
00:30:38.617 --> 00:30:40.199
What all the different criteria.
00:30:40.199 --> 00:30:42.701
You know what's happening here.
00:30:42.701 --> 00:30:45.762
How much has this impacted your life?
00:30:45.762 --> 00:30:49.887
What part of your safety was threatened.
00:30:49.887 --> 00:30:53.096
How much control did you feel like you had or lacked?
00:30:53.236 --> 00:30:57.547
Oh, control, yeah that probably plays a big part in all this too.
00:30:57.547 --> 00:31:22.787
Avoidance, you know, it's something like I remember I said it's something that just scares the shit out of you, it shocks your system and it can really take apart and disable all of your coping.
00:31:22.787 --> 00:31:23.748
That's another thing where some people are like.
00:31:23.748 --> 00:31:26.109
This has shaken me so much the stuff that used to work for me to feel better isn't working.
00:31:26.109 --> 00:31:30.134
My body is, you know, experiencing this, and those are some of the symptoms.
00:31:30.835 --> 00:31:48.819
Avoidance is a big one, avoidance of anything that makes you remember, and it could be one event, it could be multiple events, it could be some people could have a combination of a lot of little T's and then a couple big T's.
00:31:48.819 --> 00:32:07.549
Some people can have a massive T with a therapist who knows a lot about trauma.
00:32:07.549 --> 00:32:29.048
I think is really important because we're trained in so many different areas and I think that trauma really becomes almost an area of specialty where you really want somebody at least who is very aware of the different levels and how complex it could become, right, so, right now.
00:32:29.048 --> 00:32:31.413
That was a really good conversation.
00:32:31.413 --> 00:32:33.858
Thank you for listening.
00:32:33.858 --> 00:32:34.881
I do.
00:32:34.881 --> 00:32:40.411
There is a national support for PTSD.
00:32:40.411 --> 00:32:46.039
Definitely go online and do some more reading on this.
00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:52.617
Talk to professionals, you know to understand this more.
00:32:52.617 --> 00:32:57.457
Ptsd is definitely something you don't want to tackle alone.
00:32:57.457 --> 00:33:07.619
This is something that support and guidance and working with somebody who knows is a big part of understanding it and how to even treat it.
00:33:08.685 --> 00:33:09.469
Very treatable.
00:33:09.469 --> 00:33:10.833
Very treatable.
00:33:10.932 --> 00:33:11.756
Very treatable.
00:33:14.049 --> 00:33:16.214
Oh, I just kind of figured it'd be complex.
00:33:16.214 --> 00:33:19.368
Well, or it's complex but treatable.
00:33:19.368 --> 00:33:20.413
Maybe is that the.
00:33:20.413 --> 00:33:20.973
There you go.
00:33:21.134 --> 00:33:21.355
Oh, okay.
00:33:21.355 --> 00:33:27.438
And when I say treatable, there are treatments out there for PTSD.
00:33:27.438 --> 00:33:31.596
Yeah, there are treatments out there for acute stress.
00:33:31.596 --> 00:33:41.549
There are treatments out there for those people who are having stress reaction and they're not fully meeting criteria for PTSD.
00:33:41.549 --> 00:33:49.858
They're not fully meeting criteria for PTSD, but they're having a lot of stressful reaction related to something that went on in life.
00:33:50.598 --> 00:33:52.500
So there's a path to some kind of relief.
00:33:52.500 --> 00:33:57.048
Yes, always and at every level, I think.
00:33:57.068 --> 00:34:05.327
But there's a massive T, little t, not a T at all tea, little tea, not a tea at all and not a tea at all.
00:34:05.327 --> 00:34:08.293
There's still those hurts and injuries that are psychologically impacting us.
00:34:08.293 --> 00:34:23.740
So those could be things like applying for that job you really wanted and not getting, and feeling that devastation, fear, anxiety, changes in income.
00:34:23.740 --> 00:34:25.322
You know all those kinds of stress.
00:34:25.322 --> 00:34:33.396
Those are all things that can cause a lot, of, a lot of these fear and anxious symptoms.
00:34:33.396 --> 00:34:42.798
And then so that's how they start to see well, what's what's a life stressor, what's something that's happening around me.
00:34:42.798 --> 00:34:57.978
Life stressor, what's something that's happening around me and what is something that is actually something that is traumatic and has caused me to either witness or experience something life-threatening, and process that at such a higher level of what's going on.
00:34:57.978 --> 00:35:03.130
Very good, okay.
00:35:03.130 --> 00:35:05.719
So thank you for listening.
00:35:05.818 --> 00:35:12.773
I know there's a lot of questions, but we will definitely be, um, uh, having a lot more conversations on this.
00:35:12.773 --> 00:35:15.679
I we won't do them all in a row.
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:18.168
I mean these are psychologists say.
00:35:18.168 --> 00:35:25.179
We like to change it up every episode, but we will definitely be revisiting this.
00:35:25.179 --> 00:35:39.371
Some topics of historical trauma, generational trauma, all of the great stuff for Indian country that we need to be talking about with historical trauma.
00:35:39.371 --> 00:35:54.639
So today we were keeping it very clinical, on what I would do as a psychologist and how I would explain it in terms of looking at what could be PTSD versus like a stress reaction.
00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:57.472
Great questions, harold, thank you.
00:35:57.472 --> 00:36:05.411
So PS, trauma and life hurts can be very challenging for us.
00:36:05.411 --> 00:36:16.942
Yet it's definitely something that there's treatment, there are things to do to help us cope and get through these traumas in life.
00:36:16.942 --> 00:36:19.025
Miigwech you.
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