00:00:00Choosing a Therapist
00:11:35Therapy Options and Approaches
ABOUT THIS EPISODE
Can choosing the right therapist be the key to unlocking a healthier, happier you? In our latest episode of Psychologist Say, Dr. Tami and our insightful guest Harold tackle this critical question head-on. We dive into the burgeoning world of telemedicine and how it has revolutionized access to therapy, particularly for those living in remote areas or grappling with social anxiety. We also discuss the important, yet often overlooked, decision of whether in-person or virtual therapy suits your needs. From exploring the impact of therapist gender on the therapeutic relationship to emphasizing the importance of making that initial step towards finding help, this episode is brimming with invaluable insights for anyone on a mental health journey.
But what happens when therapy doesn't seem to be working? Dr. Tami and Harold share their expertise on navigating these waters, highlighting the necessity of open communication with your therapist and the importance of a good personality fit. Whether your therapist is direct and animated or more reflective and reserved, collaboration and honest feedback are key to effective therapy. We delve into the significance of expressing feelings of disconnection and how, sometimes, seeking a different therapist may be the best route. Tune in for a thoughtful discussion on making therapy work for you and ensuring that your path to mental wellness is as effective and fulfilling as possible.
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English
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SHOW NOTES 🔗
TRANSCRIPT 🔗
WEBVTT
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The following is a series of candid conversations.
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The content is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for seeking help from a mental health care professional.
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To learn more info regarding additional disclaimers, privacy policies and terms and conditions, please visit HelloDrTammycom.
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Bonjour, welcome to Psychologist Say, a podcast where I talk about the psychology of everyday living.
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I'm your host, dr Tammy, and we're joined today by returning guest Harold.
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How are you doing today, harold?
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I'm doing wonderful.
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How are you, Dr Tammy?
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I'm great.
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I'm really excited to have you back on our show again.
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How did you feel about our last episode that we recorded?
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I loved it.
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It was a lot of fun.
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Okay, good.
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Well, you were a great person to have on and I'm glad that you're interested in coming out and definitely having more conversations.
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So today we are going to do a bit of follow-up, harold, listen to my last recording about some of the things that your therapist may not be actually telling you or sharing with you in terms of what we do as a therapist, how we think and how we function, and so we're going to do a little bit more about just discussing some questions that came up for him or just conversations that he's had about topics like this how do I find a therapist?
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How do I know if I'm ready for therapy?
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What should therapy be like?
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Those are just some general questions.
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Am I kind of in the right direction on these?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I guess like when looking for a therapist before COVID, where I myself was limited to thinking therapy was what's available or is available in your backyard, in your area.
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So, in my mind, it was limited to what do you have access to in your community, who do you have access to?
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So I may have had a lot of good advice about finding one, but that doesn't mean that they're available in your community.
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So now, though, with telemedicine and being able to do virtual therapy, this has blown up.
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And now, I would say, looking for that first question of am I somebody who needs or wants to see my therapist face-to-face, versus can I do a virtual therapy session?
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Right.
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So maybe someone who's more shut in, maybe more of an introvert, that kind of telemedicine or teletherapy would be a better option for them.
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Well, I wouldn't say a better, but it's definitely another option.
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Another option.
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There you go, because of course, I would love to see I think that's part of what a treatment plan would entail.
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If I'm working with somebody who maybe is more withdrawn and maybe has social anxiety, I think it's a great way to start and maybe has social anxiety, I think it's a great way to start.
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Maybe it's getting them more open, but usually part of their distress is that they'd like to be more social.
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So I would eventually, yes, want to get that person into therapy sessions face-to-face, because that becomes part of that treatment, of exposure and showing up.
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So it might not be a better option, depending on the person, but it's a great first step.
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I would say in terms of somebody who is specifically dealing with those types of anxiety where sometimes going into your therapist's office is one of those big hurdles and steps to help them get better overall.
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With that being said, the research that has been out on the differences of telemedicine versus in-person, there hasn't been a lot of difference.
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So overall, you know, doing virtual therapy or going in face-to-face is something that I would say to just take that first step, and so I wouldn't worry too much about what, what is the outcome.
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I would.
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It's more about how do I get this started and see where it takes me.
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And now, with virtual therapy, you definitely have that option of being more selective in terms of, maybe, what type of therapist you want.
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Right.
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So I'm going to kind of deviate a little bit here.
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When looking for a therapist, when I think about going to a therapist, one of the first things I think about is the gender of that therapist.
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Like, would I want to see a man, or would I want to see a woman, depending on like, like you know, because men and women often have different characteristics and personalities and, um, I guess, like, who would I relate to more?
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Who would I open up to more?
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Those are the kind of questions I think about.
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Um, what would you say to somebody else who has those kind of thoughts?
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I think it's a really common factor that maybe people are not really even saying too much, but I think it's a natural feeling for many people to feel to be able to express themselves better with maybe their gender or their same gender.
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I think also maybe that's our own biases, where maybe we're reluctant or we're not sure on how a man or a woman and how they would see us and if they'd be able to relate to us, and so I think sometimes we might stand in our own way by seeking out comfortable factors versus like who can help me?
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You know?
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Right.
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And that's where you know, in our community most of the access we have is to female therapists.
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So when we do have a male therapist and it is a preference, of course you know if a patient says that they want to work with the male, that's their preference and of course we definitely try to do that for them.
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But then again, that looks at access.
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Do you have access to medication, to all of those options to be able to meet all of your needs?
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Yeah, exactly Like for us.
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We live in a rural area and we have so little options unless you want to travel out of town to another bigger town, and even then there's not that many options because those towns aren't very big either.
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So I guess, like if there's no options and you mentioned the virtual therapies those could be that allows, I guess, more avenues people to when searching for a therapist, right.
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Yes, because then you can start to if there's, if they have therapists that are working, there's definitely ones that you can try to request.
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You can be more specific because you're not just trying to work with what you have in your community, especially if you come from a small community, and I think that's a great way to look at.
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Well, I want, I'm looking for something particular and I, if I want to increase my options, or if, if this is a big barrier to me, then of course, I would say, yes, look at those avenues.
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If it's just something that is definitely blocking you from at least engaging in therapy, you know, taking that first step, yes, look at, look, go on online therapy resources and with this telemedicine, you can request, you can again, and they'll try to accommodate the best that they can.
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I guess, at a deeper level, I would maybe encourage people to think about what is some of the things that are going on, and I think that another good question is even talking with your therapist about that.
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So let's just say the example of, locally, I have an individual who is a male, who would like to see a male at our clinic, but we do not have access to a male therapist, and so, but yet they really want to be seen at my clinic.
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So that's kind of where.
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Would they be then willing to get into therapy with one of us here at our clinic at IBH and then have that discussion with us so that we can understand what are some of the things they're struggling with working with a female?
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What are things that I have to be aware of?
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And there's a really good question that is from EMDR, where it's if that's a form of therapy for anxiety and trauma emdr yes totally different realm of um I imagine it's an act.
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I don't know if you don't mind, yeah yeah, yep, it's um eye movement desensitization.
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So yeah, so that's that's a word full yeah, so we can talk about that later.
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I just went through through the training on that particular approach, but that's one of the in that protocol there's a question that says to your patient how secure do you feel here right now, in this space, to be able to do the work that we're going to be doing together?
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And they're able to rate that from zero to five, like giving them that option to say, well, you know, I'm at a two.
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Well, okay, is there anything you know that we, I, can do to help help make you feel more secure or help secure this space for you a little bit more?
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And I think those are really great ways for a therapist and a patient to explore that onset of maybe I don't feel quite safe here, maybe I feel too vulnerable, maybe I feel that I'm reluctant to share with you because I have what are considered maybe male issues and I'm worried that a female may not be able to relate to my struggles.
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Yeah, maybe they've had uncomfortable relationships with females in the past and working with a female is just triggering and they're not even sure why.
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Yeah, and that could go the same the other way around.
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If a female wants to go to get therapy and there's, maybe they have only access to male therapists in their area.
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Yes, exactly.
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And when you think of the history, I mean that was the history.
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Yeah.
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Dominated field, yeah, and where women there was no choice.
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You had to go to the doctor and that doctor was male, and so now that we're in a different time, people do have choices.
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But I think it's that's part of getting to know yourself, and if you have a good therapist regardless of gender, I guess that's the end game is that they can help you.
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That's the goal is help you identify what's hurting you, what's causing distress.
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How can we help you work through that and talking about gender issues or issues with your therapist.
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That's a great way to build that relationship I talked about in our last episode.
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Okay, I guess.
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One more question is say I start with a therapist and things just aren't working like what are, what are my options?
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Is it okay if I ask for another therapist?
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of course, of course.
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Uh, you always have that like therapies at their own free will.
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And let's say, you, you started it and it's just you're.
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You feel like you're lost or you're not connecting with your therapist.
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So I think I mentioned the best thing to do that I would recommend and that I would want my patient to do is to take that.
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You know, let's try to tackle that.
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At least please have a conversation with me about it.
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And a lot of times it can be a misunderstanding or it could be an approach that we're using that just isn't sitting well with that particular person's personality and maybe it works well with all of our other clients.
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So sometimes we don't even know if our patient is feeling like our personalities aren't meshing well, yeah, and so it definitely comes up with um, just what you said, like gosh, I'm really, um, I, you know, I like you know, therapy's been okay, but I really feel like I'm maybe thinking I need something else.
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Even telling that to your therapist.
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Uh, you should never be retaliated against, you should never.
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That should never turn on.
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You know, we shouldn't flip the script and say this is more about you than me.
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Sort of gaslighted.
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And I would say, if there was a therapist doing that and it wasn't done in a really good or therapeutic way, I would say, yeah, looks like whatever you're feeling may be exactly right, because your therapist, they need to work with you, they need to be able to communicate even tough things to their patient in a good way.
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Well, boy, that didn't even go the way I thought it would.
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I didn't feel validated, I didn't feel heard.
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I, you know they didn't rephrase that for me in a way that made sense.
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I felt like they got defensive.
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You know, whatever that is, those are all good things to also say.
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Boy, you know, I brought that up last week and I didn't know if you were, if you were, upset or offended by that.
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So I just, you know those are all okay to talk to your therapist about, because the goal is to this person is the person that you need to trust to help you get through your most intimate you know information and you have to be able to build that relationship Right and it won't come.
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It's not one sided, so it has to be back and forth, where we're relying on our patients to to help us out a bit too, if we're, if we're not meeting them and where they need to be.
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Just you know, just some of that guidance and feedback too is it's appreciated, it's great, and I know it can be tough, but also it could be really rewarding.
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Yeah.
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And ultimately to say maybe it's just not going well and your therapist agrees.
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You know, they've been trying, you've been trying.
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What your therapist would then do is offer you a referral and look for.
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You know, this is what I do.
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I try to find other therapists that they may work well with.
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Yeah, so maybe someone who has, like, maybe different strategies that you might deploy, or yeah, yeah, and sometimes, a lot of times, I think it's about personality.
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Yeah, so that's where your therapist is just like anybody, any other human person.
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They have different types of personalities that it's not easy for them to just change the type of personality they are, how they deliver their, their sessions, how they deal with uncomfortable information.
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You know, everybody has their own style of communicating and going back and forth and sometimes those are the things you just can't change about your therapist.
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They can, they can try to you know, meet you, but if it's overall like this just isn't a personality fit, that's where you like.
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Maybe you need somebody who's more engaging, more animated, has more energy.
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You know, maybe more direct.
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More direct yeah.
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Definitely more animated, uh, has more energy, you know, maybe more direct, more direct, yeah, definitely, some people are.
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They're ready to do the work.
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They don't want, um, unconditional positive regard where they're kind of always, um, basically like reinforced for what's going on.
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They, they actually may say you know what I feel like I might be the problem sometimes in my life.
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You know there's some people and I love those people because I am, I'm, I'm upfront and sometimes I and it's because I'm I've been doing this work for a very long time and so for me, I'd, I'd like to get more into the issues so that maybe they don't need to take, you know, months and months to to try to like tackle some of the things that may be going on.
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So those are good things.
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You know, I always tell my patient, you know, I know it's tough to be honest, but nothing you can say would surprise me, nothing would shock me.
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I've heard it all.
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I've heard it all and I need to hear whatever it is that is going on with you so I can help you.
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Otherwise, I'm just doing my best to help you with what you're telling me and, um, you know, that's where it's like.
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Give me the chance to try to help you to the best of my ability, but you have to let me in.
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You have to.
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You know, eventually you have to.
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Let me try to get there with you.
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Yeah, it's a team effort.
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Team effort.
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Yeah, so I like that.
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What you said, like more direct, because that is a personality style.
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That is somebody who is coming in saying, you know, I don't want a lot of reflection, Like well, how does that, you know?
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Just kind of want a lot of reflection, Like well, how does that, you know just kind of keep bouncing it off, or what should I do about this problem.
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And your therapist may say, well, what do you think you should do?
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You know, it just may feel like some people may feel like boy, I'd really actually like to get maybe some tools.
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Or if I feel like I'm doing a lot of my own problem solving, or I'm walking out feeling like everything was going back onto me, these are all things that, of course, your therapist shouldn't just give you advice.
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We're not here, we're not in an advice column, but we should guide you in an effort.
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We should be able to tell you what kind of therapy approach we're using with you while you're trying to figure out certain situations.
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Yeah, there you go yeah, that all sounds wonderful information.
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Thank you so much um, another thing was, you know, I've had some patients who have said, boy, you know, this is this therapy has been really helpful.
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I've tried other therapists before and what?
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And I go well, what, what's different, you know.
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So I'll ask what's different about this?
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Because sometimes, um, your hope, you're really hoping that you're a good therapist and that you're helping, and sometimes I'll pull from many different types of therapy approaches, episode is what type of training.
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Um, what kind of therapy approach is your provider trained in?
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Yeah, and that's where a word like emdr came up.
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Um, cognitive behavioral therapy, uh, motivational interview, these are all uh, psychoanalytic.
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You know, people hear of a psychodynamic that's freudian, so there's that's another whole very interesting conversation that are and this is for our listeners, because these are the questions you may not know Are these the things that are on your checklist that you may not know, that you may want a therapist that is trained in a certain type of therapy approach versus, you know, just a therapist who maybe you're not sure of what, what kind of that?
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What therapy are they actually using on you?
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yeah, so going through like just the little specializations in psychology that you just mentioned, uh, letting the listeners know a little bit more about that information they could.
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When they do look out for a therapist, they could maybe find that kind of specialization.
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Yes, if it's out there, if it's available to them yes, they and and it.
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They just have to ask their you know the clinic when they're calling um.
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If they're looking, you know, online and they see a therapist, they, they could say what type of therapy do they use?
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You know what?
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What's their approach?
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And then that if they say their c, their cbt, that means their cognitive behavior therapy.
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Then people can start to look up well, what does that mean?
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Does that sound like that's right for me?
00:20:39.309 --> 00:21:06.121
uh, so I think that's giving our listeners a piece of information to be able to do their homework it's like it's a tool yeah, but it's, it's the, it's your therapist approach, it's how they were trained in their program, like their program of study, and then after that, if they have certain trainings that they're able to add more specialized training or treatment approaches.
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That's like EMDR you have to be able to show that you have the certification or the ability to do these through certain training protocols.
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So that's where patients may hear something interesting, but they may not have access to a therapist who has that specific training.
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And that's where, again, that's where they might want to do more homework and that's where again they can.
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That's where they might want to do more homework.
00:21:31.454 --> 00:21:41.797
And gosh, I'm interested in, not just like, what type of therapist do I want to see, like male or female, or, but what kind of therapy approach sounds really interesting?
00:21:41.797 --> 00:21:45.125
That may work very well for my issue or my personality.
00:21:45.335 --> 00:21:50.046
Yeah, so beyond gender, it's like specialization and then personality, yeah.
00:21:50.207 --> 00:21:50.907
Definitely.
00:21:50.907 --> 00:22:02.611
And then, once you meet them, I think that's where you kind of get a better flair for how their personality may interact with what kind of therapy approach they're using, and I think our patients are not educated on that.
00:22:03.436 --> 00:22:08.661
Oh, absolutely not, you know when you go to the doctor, you're you know you have to see a podiatrist.
00:22:08.661 --> 00:22:18.521
If it's for, you know, or they're saying you know I can do this for you, but it looks like you're having trouble with your feet so I have to refer you to a podiatrist.
00:22:18.521 --> 00:22:22.575
Because so it's, it's, it's no different with your therapist.
00:22:22.575 --> 00:22:28.770
There are certain things that that we specialize in, that we would have to make referrals.
00:22:28.770 --> 00:22:38.083
There are certain treatments that we can offer, and if there's something that you want that we can't offer, we try to help you find a therapist who's trained in that approach.
00:22:38.083 --> 00:22:53.623
So hopefully that definitely helps our listeners get bigger insight on when they're therapist shopping too, to that you definitely can look for what you need and what you want, and that that's something that can fit.
00:22:53.623 --> 00:23:01.422
Um, and I think personality is a big, a big player yeah, for sure great questions.
00:23:02.463 --> 00:23:11.782
So the other thing I want to bring up before we shut down is uh, I did have I do have patients sometimes, but one in particular when I was first starting out.
00:23:11.782 --> 00:23:16.619
That's where they said this therapy has been very helpful, and so I was curious.
00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:19.707
Okay, but you were in therapy for years before.
00:23:19.707 --> 00:23:21.338
You know what's different.
00:23:21.338 --> 00:23:27.184
You know about this Because I was very curious and I said how was it with your other?
00:23:27.184 --> 00:23:36.156
And they were really having a difficult time explaining it and they just said well, it just seemed like I was going out for coffee with them.
00:23:37.038 --> 00:23:38.722
Right, it's like a casual conversation.
00:23:38.883 --> 00:23:41.669
Yes, and I just said it, should you know?
00:23:41.669 --> 00:23:47.662
Yeah, oh, thank you, because you should never feel like you're going out for coffee with your therapist.
00:23:47.662 --> 00:23:55.637
We're not your friend, we're not your um, we're not a family member, we're not somebody that is a cash.
00:23:55.637 --> 00:24:02.596
You know there is a relationship of this is your doctor, this is your therapist and you're.
00:24:02.596 --> 00:24:04.601
There's that clear boundary.
00:24:04.601 --> 00:24:18.515
And so if, if it's a check-in that you can do with your friend, that's not what the kind of work you do with your therapist, unless that's very detailed.
00:24:18.515 --> 00:24:23.787
That that's part of relationship building, but that should only last so long.
00:24:23.787 --> 00:24:25.398
I mean, that's the piece of it.
00:24:25.398 --> 00:24:37.707
If somebody to me and this is my thinking, and you know, maybe somebody other therapists do not believe this is what I think, though it should never feel like a friendship or a casual going out for coffee kind of thing.
00:24:38.035 --> 00:24:38.236
Yeah.
00:24:38.817 --> 00:25:03.906
And so I think that's where I tell people yes, no, you definitely want to enjoy your sessions, you want to enjoy your therapist, make sure that they're a good fit, but that you should be very clear on the work that's being done in there, so you know that there's a treatment plan and that you are leaving feeling like you're meeting those goals of getting getting the relief that you need.
00:25:03.906 --> 00:25:18.259
That you could not get from going out for coffee with a friend or a casual conversation with people, it's got to be deeper than that oh, I mean, well, yes, and therapy is, it's, it's something that this is our specialty.
00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:20.762
Uh, we build for services.
00:25:20.762 --> 00:25:30.256
So, and I, I'll tell patients that if, um, if their phone rings in session and they want want to excuse me, I'm going to answer this.
00:25:30.256 --> 00:25:58.761
I'm, I just think, okay, that's you know, you're paying me right now, but if you would, you know, want to spend time on the phone and I'd rather be working with you, but that's your call.
00:25:58.761 --> 00:25:59.321
Yeah, do you know?
00:25:59.321 --> 00:25:59.642
So it is.
00:25:59.642 --> 00:26:07.605
And I have to remind people that when they come in, yeah, when the treatment plan is going so long, I mean you're billing per session.
00:26:07.605 --> 00:26:13.169
So I think it's part of their awareness of that.
00:26:13.409 --> 00:26:18.990
Yeah, your therapist has to be very mindful of that too.
00:26:18.990 --> 00:26:27.376
And just not, you know, they should be updating you on where they're going, where the progress is be monitoring.
00:26:27.376 --> 00:26:30.981
So that's just some other things to think about when you get into a relationship.
00:26:30.981 --> 00:26:37.510
And, yeah, time frame, I mean that's what I would like to know if I'm getting into something that I'm paying for.
00:26:37.510 --> 00:26:42.026
How many weeks, how many sessions, how long are these, what do they cost?
00:26:42.026 --> 00:26:45.203
How do I know when we're done?
00:26:45.203 --> 00:26:52.365
These are all the kinds of things that people have questions about that may not get answered up front.
00:26:52.765 --> 00:26:53.006
Yeah.
00:26:55.470 --> 00:26:59.346
Okay, so I think this was a lot of good information.
00:26:59.346 --> 00:27:21.807
Hopefully we followed up on some of the questions and if you haven't listened to the episode, it was I think it was titled Hidden Truth, that your therapist may not share, but it was the last episode that was published, so definitely go to Psychologist Say and download.
00:27:21.807 --> 00:27:24.299
And thanks for joining us.
00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:25.182
Thank you, harold.
00:27:25.182 --> 00:27:26.946
Great, I know you're mind spinning.
00:27:26.946 --> 00:27:28.359
You have a lot more questions.
00:27:28.520 --> 00:27:29.284
Oh yeah, for sure.
00:27:29.634 --> 00:27:40.041
So we will definitely have a lot more, many more conversations about this, but we'll sign off for today, miigwetch, for listening, and we'll see you later.
00:27:40.041 --> 00:27:42.367
Ps.
00:27:42.367 --> 00:27:49.566
Finding the right therapist is just like shopping, so take your time, do your research and invest wisely.
00:00:00.100 --> 00:00:02.388
The following is a series of candid conversations.
00:00:02.388 --> 00:00:08.407
The content is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for seeking help from a mental health care professional.
00:00:08.407 --> 00:00:15.026
To learn more info regarding additional disclaimers, privacy policies and terms and conditions, please visit HelloDrTammycom.
00:00:24.460 --> 00:00:30.260
Bonjour, welcome to Psychologist Say, a podcast where I talk about the psychology of everyday living.
00:00:30.260 --> 00:00:35.652
I'm your host, dr Tammy, and we're joined today by returning guest Harold.
00:00:35.652 --> 00:00:36.944
How are you doing today, harold?
00:00:37.084 --> 00:00:37.847
I'm doing wonderful.
00:00:37.847 --> 00:00:38.649
How are you, Dr Tammy?
00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:39.762
I'm great.
00:00:39.762 --> 00:00:42.408
I'm really excited to have you back on our show again.
00:00:42.408 --> 00:00:46.542
How did you feel about our last episode that we recorded?
00:00:46.682 --> 00:00:47.063
I loved it.
00:00:47.063 --> 00:00:47.784
It was a lot of fun.
00:00:48.085 --> 00:00:48.667
Okay, good.
00:00:48.667 --> 00:00:56.213
Well, you were a great person to have on and I'm glad that you're interested in coming out and definitely having more conversations.
00:00:56.213 --> 00:01:29.246
So today we are going to do a bit of follow-up, harold, listen to my last recording about some of the things that your therapist may not be actually telling you or sharing with you in terms of what we do as a therapist, how we think and how we function, and so we're going to do a little bit more about just discussing some questions that came up for him or just conversations that he's had about topics like this how do I find a therapist?
00:01:29.246 --> 00:01:31.307
How do I know if I'm ready for therapy?
00:01:31.307 --> 00:01:34.429
What should therapy be like?
00:01:34.429 --> 00:01:37.347
Those are just some general questions.
00:01:37.347 --> 00:01:40.730
Am I kind of in the right direction on these?
00:01:40.790 --> 00:01:41.412
Yeah, absolutely.
00:02:01.069 --> 00:02:01.570
Yeah, absolutely.
00:02:01.570 --> 00:02:14.933
I guess like when looking for a therapist before COVID, where I myself was limited to thinking therapy was what's available or is available in your backyard, in your area.
00:02:14.933 --> 00:02:22.406
So, in my mind, it was limited to what do you have access to in your community, who do you have access to?
00:02:22.406 --> 00:02:30.105
So I may have had a lot of good advice about finding one, but that doesn't mean that they're available in your community.
00:02:30.105 --> 00:02:39.528
So now, though, with telemedicine and being able to do virtual therapy, this has blown up.
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And now, I would say, looking for that first question of am I somebody who needs or wants to see my therapist face-to-face, versus can I do a virtual therapy session?
00:02:53.314 --> 00:02:53.496
Right.
00:02:53.496 --> 00:03:03.735
So maybe someone who's more shut in, maybe more of an introvert, that kind of telemedicine or teletherapy would be a better option for them.
00:03:04.020 --> 00:03:07.269
Well, I wouldn't say a better, but it's definitely another option.
00:03:07.308 --> 00:03:07.931
Another option.
00:03:07.950 --> 00:03:14.401
There you go, because of course, I would love to see I think that's part of what a treatment plan would entail.
00:03:14.401 --> 00:03:28.087
If I'm working with somebody who maybe is more withdrawn and maybe has social anxiety, I think it's a great way to start and maybe has social anxiety, I think it's a great way to start.
00:03:28.087 --> 00:03:33.375
Maybe it's getting them more open, but usually part of their distress is that they'd like to be more social.
00:03:33.375 --> 00:03:45.879
So I would eventually, yes, want to get that person into therapy sessions face-to-face, because that becomes part of that treatment, of exposure and showing up.
00:03:46.500 --> 00:03:50.931
So it might not be a better option, depending on the person, but it's a great first step.
00:03:51.341 --> 00:04:05.454
I would say in terms of somebody who is specifically dealing with those types of anxiety where sometimes going into your therapist's office is one of those big hurdles and steps to help them get better overall.
00:04:05.454 --> 00:04:17.600
With that being said, the research that has been out on the differences of telemedicine versus in-person, there hasn't been a lot of difference.
00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:33.072
So overall, you know, doing virtual therapy or going in face-to-face is something that I would say to just take that first step, and so I wouldn't worry too much about what, what is the outcome.
00:04:33.072 --> 00:04:34.281
I would.
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It's more about how do I get this started and see where it takes me.
00:04:38.432 --> 00:04:47.341
And now, with virtual therapy, you definitely have that option of being more selective in terms of, maybe, what type of therapist you want.
00:04:47.642 --> 00:04:47.822
Right.
00:04:47.822 --> 00:04:50.309
So I'm going to kind of deviate a little bit here.
00:04:50.309 --> 00:05:00.363
When looking for a therapist, when I think about going to a therapist, one of the first things I think about is the gender of that therapist.
00:05:00.363 --> 00:05:11.785
Like, would I want to see a man, or would I want to see a woman, depending on like, like you know, because men and women often have different characteristics and personalities and, um, I guess, like, who would I relate to more?
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Who would I open up to more?
00:05:13.048 --> 00:05:15.500
Those are the kind of questions I think about.
00:05:15.500 --> 00:05:20.487
Um, what would you say to somebody else who has those kind of thoughts?
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I think it's a really common factor that maybe people are not really even saying too much, but I think it's a natural feeling for many people to feel to be able to express themselves better with maybe their gender or their same gender.
00:05:39.903 --> 00:06:07.233
I think also maybe that's our own biases, where maybe we're reluctant or we're not sure on how a man or a woman and how they would see us and if they'd be able to relate to us, and so I think sometimes we might stand in our own way by seeking out comfortable factors versus like who can help me?
00:06:07.233 --> 00:06:07.634
You know?
00:06:07.894 --> 00:06:08.076
Right.
00:06:08.961 --> 00:06:15.872
And that's where you know, in our community most of the access we have is to female therapists.
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So when we do have a male therapist and it is a preference, of course you know if a patient says that they want to work with the male, that's their preference and of course we definitely try to do that for them.
00:06:29.309 --> 00:06:32.949
But then again, that looks at access.
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Do you have access to medication, to all of those options to be able to meet all of your needs?
00:06:38.983 --> 00:06:40.579
Yeah, exactly Like for us.
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We live in a rural area and we have so little options unless you want to travel out of town to another bigger town, and even then there's not that many options because those towns aren't very big either.
00:06:49.920 --> 00:07:03.447
So I guess, like if there's no options and you mentioned the virtual therapies those could be that allows, I guess, more avenues people to when searching for a therapist, right.
00:07:03.694 --> 00:07:14.951
Yes, because then you can start to if there's, if they have therapists that are working, there's definitely ones that you can try to request.
00:07:14.951 --> 00:07:26.427
You can be more specific because you're not just trying to work with what you have in your community, especially if you come from a small community, and I think that's a great way to look at.
00:07:26.427 --> 00:07:40.490
Well, I want, I'm looking for something particular and I, if I want to increase my options, or if, if this is a big barrier to me, then of course, I would say, yes, look at those avenues.
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If it's just something that is definitely blocking you from at least engaging in therapy, you know, taking that first step, yes, look at, look, go on online therapy resources and with this telemedicine, you can request, you can again, and they'll try to accommodate the best that they can.
00:07:59.661 --> 00:08:15.129
I guess, at a deeper level, I would maybe encourage people to think about what is some of the things that are going on, and I think that another good question is even talking with your therapist about that.
00:08:15.129 --> 00:08:32.745
So let's just say the example of, locally, I have an individual who is a male, who would like to see a male at our clinic, but we do not have access to a male therapist, and so, but yet they really want to be seen at my clinic.
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So that's kind of where.
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Would they be then willing to get into therapy with one of us here at our clinic at IBH and then have that discussion with us so that we can understand what are some of the things they're struggling with working with a female?
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What are things that I have to be aware of?
00:08:54.224 --> 00:09:09.051
And there's a really good question that is from EMDR, where it's if that's a form of therapy for anxiety and trauma emdr yes totally different realm of um I imagine it's an act.
00:09:09.071 --> 00:09:14.201
I don't know if you don't mind, yeah yeah, yep, it's um eye movement desensitization.
00:09:14.283 --> 00:09:19.138
So yeah, so that's that's a word full yeah, so we can talk about that later.
00:09:19.197 --> 00:09:38.441
I just went through through the training on that particular approach, but that's one of the in that protocol there's a question that says to your patient how secure do you feel here right now, in this space, to be able to do the work that we're going to be doing together?
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And they're able to rate that from zero to five, like giving them that option to say, well, you know, I'm at a two.
00:09:46.226 --> 00:09:57.139
Well, okay, is there anything you know that we, I, can do to help help make you feel more secure or help secure this space for you a little bit more?
00:09:57.139 --> 00:10:23.211
And I think those are really great ways for a therapist and a patient to explore that onset of maybe I don't feel quite safe here, maybe I feel too vulnerable, maybe I feel that I'm reluctant to share with you because I have what are considered maybe male issues and I'm worried that a female may not be able to relate to my struggles.
00:10:23.211 --> 00:10:35.583
Yeah, maybe they've had uncomfortable relationships with females in the past and working with a female is just triggering and they're not even sure why.
00:10:35.605 --> 00:10:38.289
Yeah, and that could go the same the other way around.
00:10:38.289 --> 00:10:44.388
If a female wants to go to get therapy and there's, maybe they have only access to male therapists in their area.
00:10:44.695 --> 00:10:46.081
Yes, exactly.
00:10:46.081 --> 00:10:49.527
And when you think of the history, I mean that was the history.
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Yeah.
00:10:50.149 --> 00:10:54.375
Dominated field, yeah, and where women there was no choice.
00:10:54.375 --> 00:11:04.096
You had to go to the doctor and that doctor was male, and so now that we're in a different time, people do have choices.
00:11:04.096 --> 00:11:14.926
But I think it's that's part of getting to know yourself, and if you have a good therapist regardless of gender, I guess that's the end game is that they can help you.
00:11:14.926 --> 00:11:20.504
That's the goal is help you identify what's hurting you, what's causing distress.
00:11:20.504 --> 00:11:28.394
How can we help you work through that and talking about gender issues or issues with your therapist.
00:11:28.394 --> 00:11:33.634
That's a great way to build that relationship I talked about in our last episode.
00:11:33.975 --> 00:11:35.159
Okay, I guess.
00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:45.037
One more question is say I start with a therapist and things just aren't working like what are, what are my options?
00:11:45.037 --> 00:11:46.721
Is it okay if I ask for another therapist?
00:11:47.042 --> 00:11:48.024
of course, of course.
00:11:48.024 --> 00:11:51.460
Uh, you always have that like therapies at their own free will.
00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:55.816
And let's say, you, you started it and it's just you're.
00:11:55.816 --> 00:11:59.961
You feel like you're lost or you're not connecting with your therapist.
00:11:59.961 --> 00:12:07.663
So I think I mentioned the best thing to do that I would recommend and that I would want my patient to do is to take that.
00:12:07.663 --> 00:12:09.677
You know, let's try to tackle that.
00:12:09.677 --> 00:12:13.407
At least please have a conversation with me about it.
00:12:14.615 --> 00:12:29.977
And a lot of times it can be a misunderstanding or it could be an approach that we're using that just isn't sitting well with that particular person's personality and maybe it works well with all of our other clients.
00:12:29.977 --> 00:12:48.839
So sometimes we don't even know if our patient is feeling like our personalities aren't meshing well, yeah, and so it definitely comes up with um, just what you said, like gosh, I'm really, um, I, you know, I like you know, therapy's been okay, but I really feel like I'm maybe thinking I need something else.
00:12:48.839 --> 00:12:51.567
Even telling that to your therapist.
00:12:51.567 --> 00:12:56.038
Uh, you should never be retaliated against, you should never.
00:12:56.038 --> 00:12:57.520
That should never turn on.
00:12:57.520 --> 00:13:01.708
You know, we shouldn't flip the script and say this is more about you than me.
00:13:02.176 --> 00:13:02.960
Sort of gaslighted.
00:13:04.375 --> 00:13:35.486
And I would say, if there was a therapist doing that and it wasn't done in a really good or therapeutic way, I would say, yeah, looks like whatever you're feeling may be exactly right, because your therapist, they need to work with you, they need to be able to communicate even tough things to their patient in a good way.
00:13:35.486 --> 00:13:38.750
Well, boy, that didn't even go the way I thought it would.
00:13:38.750 --> 00:13:41.852
I didn't feel validated, I didn't feel heard.
00:13:41.852 --> 00:13:45.904
I, you know they didn't rephrase that for me in a way that made sense.
00:13:45.904 --> 00:13:49.022
I felt like they got defensive.
00:13:49.022 --> 00:13:52.900
You know, whatever that is, those are all good things to also say.
00:13:52.941 --> 00:13:59.322
Boy, you know, I brought that up last week and I didn't know if you were, if you were, upset or offended by that.
00:13:59.322 --> 00:14:21.280
So I just, you know those are all okay to talk to your therapist about, because the goal is to this person is the person that you need to trust to help you get through your most intimate you know information and you have to be able to build that relationship Right and it won't come.
00:14:21.280 --> 00:14:34.823
It's not one sided, so it has to be back and forth, where we're relying on our patients to to help us out a bit too, if we're, if we're not meeting them and where they need to be.
00:14:34.823 --> 00:14:44.043
Just you know, just some of that guidance and feedback too is it's appreciated, it's great, and I know it can be tough, but also it could be really rewarding.
00:14:44.605 --> 00:14:44.806
Yeah.
00:14:45.557 --> 00:14:50.500
And ultimately to say maybe it's just not going well and your therapist agrees.
00:14:50.500 --> 00:14:53.399
You know, they've been trying, you've been trying.
00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:58.062
What your therapist would then do is offer you a referral and look for.
00:14:58.062 --> 00:14:59.477
You know, this is what I do.
00:14:59.477 --> 00:15:03.596
I try to find other therapists that they may work well with.
00:15:03.998 --> 00:15:14.246
Yeah, so maybe someone who has, like, maybe different strategies that you might deploy, or yeah, yeah, and sometimes, a lot of times, I think it's about personality.
00:15:14.486 --> 00:15:20.404
Yeah, so that's where your therapist is just like anybody, any other human person.
00:15:20.404 --> 00:15:34.827
They have different types of personalities that it's not easy for them to just change the type of personality they are, how they deliver their, their sessions, how they deal with uncomfortable information.
00:15:34.827 --> 00:15:44.129
You know, everybody has their own style of communicating and going back and forth and sometimes those are the things you just can't change about your therapist.
00:15:44.129 --> 00:15:52.774
They can, they can try to you know, meet you, but if it's overall like this just isn't a personality fit, that's where you like.
00:15:52.774 --> 00:15:59.187
Maybe you need somebody who's more engaging, more animated, has more energy.
00:15:59.206 --> 00:16:00.629
You know, maybe more direct.
00:16:02.955 --> 00:16:03.275
More direct yeah.
00:16:03.296 --> 00:16:06.241
Definitely more animated, uh, has more energy, you know, maybe more direct, more direct, yeah, definitely, some people are.
00:16:06.241 --> 00:16:07.203
They're ready to do the work.
00:16:07.203 --> 00:16:16.385
They don't want, um, unconditional positive regard where they're kind of always, um, basically like reinforced for what's going on.
00:16:16.385 --> 00:16:21.677
They, they actually may say you know what I feel like I might be the problem sometimes in my life.
00:16:21.677 --> 00:16:46.725
You know there's some people and I love those people because I am, I'm, I'm upfront and sometimes I and it's because I'm I've been doing this work for a very long time and so for me, I'd, I'd like to get more into the issues so that maybe they don't need to take, you know, months and months to to try to like tackle some of the things that may be going on.
00:16:46.725 --> 00:16:49.160
So those are good things.
00:16:49.160 --> 00:16:58.320
You know, I always tell my patient, you know, I know it's tough to be honest, but nothing you can say would surprise me, nothing would shock me.
00:16:58.440 --> 00:16:59.043
I've heard it all.
00:16:59.456 --> 00:17:05.240
I've heard it all and I need to hear whatever it is that is going on with you so I can help you.
00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:13.884
Otherwise, I'm just doing my best to help you with what you're telling me and, um, you know, that's where it's like.
00:17:13.884 --> 00:17:20.285
Give me the chance to try to help you to the best of my ability, but you have to let me in.
00:17:20.285 --> 00:17:20.905
You have to.
00:17:20.905 --> 00:17:22.917
You know, eventually you have to.
00:17:22.917 --> 00:17:24.982
Let me try to get there with you.
00:17:25.324 --> 00:17:26.626
Yeah, it's a team effort.
00:17:27.255 --> 00:17:28.278
Team effort.
00:17:28.278 --> 00:17:30.345
Yeah, so I like that.
00:17:30.345 --> 00:17:33.976
What you said, like more direct, because that is a personality style.
00:17:33.976 --> 00:17:41.250
That is somebody who is coming in saying, you know, I don't want a lot of reflection, Like well, how does that, you know?
00:17:41.250 --> 00:17:47.401
Just kind of want a lot of reflection, Like well, how does that, you know just kind of keep bouncing it off, or what should I do about this problem.
00:17:47.401 --> 00:17:49.107
And your therapist may say, well, what do you think you should do?
00:17:49.107 --> 00:17:55.505
You know, it just may feel like some people may feel like boy, I'd really actually like to get maybe some tools.
00:17:55.505 --> 00:18:09.006
Or if I feel like I'm doing a lot of my own problem solving, or I'm walking out feeling like everything was going back onto me, these are all things that, of course, your therapist shouldn't just give you advice.
00:18:09.006 --> 00:18:13.894
We're not here, we're not in an advice column, but we should guide you in an effort.
00:18:13.894 --> 00:18:22.169
We should be able to tell you what kind of therapy approach we're using with you while you're trying to figure out certain situations.
00:18:24.356 --> 00:18:27.986
Yeah, there you go yeah, that all sounds wonderful information.
00:18:28.006 --> 00:18:38.481
Thank you so much um, another thing was, you know, I've had some patients who have said, boy, you know, this is this therapy has been really helpful.
00:18:38.481 --> 00:18:42.030
I've tried other therapists before and what?
00:18:42.030 --> 00:18:43.820
And I go well, what, what's different, you know.
00:18:43.820 --> 00:18:45.611
So I'll ask what's different about this?
00:18:45.611 --> 00:19:11.576
Because sometimes, um, your hope, you're really hoping that you're a good therapist and that you're helping, and sometimes I'll pull from many different types of therapy approaches, episode is what type of training.
00:19:11.596 --> 00:19:13.060
Um, what kind of therapy approach is your provider trained in?
00:19:13.060 --> 00:19:14.904
Yeah, and that's where a word like emdr came up.
00:19:14.904 --> 00:19:22.342
Um, cognitive behavioral therapy, uh, motivational interview, these are all uh, psychoanalytic.
00:19:22.342 --> 00:19:53.082
You know, people hear of a psychodynamic that's freudian, so there's that's another whole very interesting conversation that are and this is for our listeners, because these are the questions you may not know Are these the things that are on your checklist that you may not know, that you may want a therapist that is trained in a certain type of therapy approach versus, you know, just a therapist who maybe you're not sure of what, what kind of that?
00:19:53.082 --> 00:19:55.787
What therapy are they actually using on you?
00:19:55.946 --> 00:20:05.942
yeah, so going through like just the little specializations in psychology that you just mentioned, uh, letting the listeners know a little bit more about that information they could.
00:20:05.942 --> 00:20:09.861
When they do look out for a therapist, they could maybe find that kind of specialization.
00:20:09.861 --> 00:20:14.318
Yes, if it's out there, if it's available to them yes, they and and it.
00:20:14.700 --> 00:20:18.828
They just have to ask their you know the clinic when they're calling um.
00:20:18.828 --> 00:20:25.518
If they're looking, you know, online and they see a therapist, they, they could say what type of therapy do they use?
00:20:25.518 --> 00:20:25.919
You know what?
00:20:25.919 --> 00:20:26.881
What's their approach?
00:20:26.881 --> 00:20:32.982
And then that if they say their c, their cbt, that means their cognitive behavior therapy.
00:20:32.982 --> 00:20:36.218
Then people can start to look up well, what does that mean?
00:20:36.218 --> 00:20:38.226
Does that sound like that's right for me?
00:20:39.309 --> 00:21:06.121
uh, so I think that's giving our listeners a piece of information to be able to do their homework it's like it's a tool yeah, but it's, it's the, it's your therapist approach, it's how they were trained in their program, like their program of study, and then after that, if they have certain trainings that they're able to add more specialized training or treatment approaches.
00:21:06.121 --> 00:21:18.078
That's like EMDR you have to be able to show that you have the certification or the ability to do these through certain training protocols.
00:21:18.078 --> 00:21:26.544
So that's where patients may hear something interesting, but they may not have access to a therapist who has that specific training.
00:21:26.544 --> 00:21:30.118
And that's where, again, that's where they might want to do more homework and that's where again they can.
00:21:30.118 --> 00:21:31.454
That's where they might want to do more homework.
00:21:31.454 --> 00:21:41.797
And gosh, I'm interested in, not just like, what type of therapist do I want to see, like male or female, or, but what kind of therapy approach sounds really interesting?
00:21:41.797 --> 00:21:45.125
That may work very well for my issue or my personality.
00:21:45.335 --> 00:21:50.046
Yeah, so beyond gender, it's like specialization and then personality, yeah.
00:21:50.207 --> 00:21:50.907
Definitely.
00:21:50.907 --> 00:22:02.611
And then, once you meet them, I think that's where you kind of get a better flair for how their personality may interact with what kind of therapy approach they're using, and I think our patients are not educated on that.
00:22:03.436 --> 00:22:08.661
Oh, absolutely not, you know when you go to the doctor, you're you know you have to see a podiatrist.
00:22:08.661 --> 00:22:18.521
If it's for, you know, or they're saying you know I can do this for you, but it looks like you're having trouble with your feet so I have to refer you to a podiatrist.
00:22:18.521 --> 00:22:22.575
Because so it's, it's, it's no different with your therapist.
00:22:22.575 --> 00:22:28.770
There are certain things that that we specialize in, that we would have to make referrals.
00:22:28.770 --> 00:22:38.083
There are certain treatments that we can offer, and if there's something that you want that we can't offer, we try to help you find a therapist who's trained in that approach.
00:22:38.083 --> 00:22:53.623
So hopefully that definitely helps our listeners get bigger insight on when they're therapist shopping too, to that you definitely can look for what you need and what you want, and that that's something that can fit.
00:22:53.623 --> 00:23:01.422
Um, and I think personality is a big, a big player yeah, for sure great questions.
00:23:02.463 --> 00:23:11.782
So the other thing I want to bring up before we shut down is uh, I did have I do have patients sometimes, but one in particular when I was first starting out.
00:23:11.782 --> 00:23:16.619
That's where they said this therapy has been very helpful, and so I was curious.
00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:19.707
Okay, but you were in therapy for years before.
00:23:19.707 --> 00:23:21.338
You know what's different.
00:23:21.338 --> 00:23:27.184
You know about this Because I was very curious and I said how was it with your other?
00:23:27.184 --> 00:23:36.156
And they were really having a difficult time explaining it and they just said well, it just seemed like I was going out for coffee with them.
00:23:37.038 --> 00:23:38.722
Right, it's like a casual conversation.
00:23:38.883 --> 00:23:41.669
Yes, and I just said it, should you know?
00:23:41.669 --> 00:23:47.662
Yeah, oh, thank you, because you should never feel like you're going out for coffee with your therapist.
00:23:47.662 --> 00:23:55.637
We're not your friend, we're not your um, we're not a family member, we're not somebody that is a cash.
00:23:55.637 --> 00:24:02.596
You know there is a relationship of this is your doctor, this is your therapist and you're.
00:24:02.596 --> 00:24:04.601
There's that clear boundary.
00:24:04.601 --> 00:24:18.515
And so if, if it's a check-in that you can do with your friend, that's not what the kind of work you do with your therapist, unless that's very detailed.
00:24:18.515 --> 00:24:23.787
That that's part of relationship building, but that should only last so long.
00:24:23.787 --> 00:24:25.398
I mean, that's the piece of it.
00:24:25.398 --> 00:24:37.707
If somebody to me and this is my thinking, and you know, maybe somebody other therapists do not believe this is what I think, though it should never feel like a friendship or a casual going out for coffee kind of thing.
00:24:38.035 --> 00:24:38.236
Yeah.
00:24:38.817 --> 00:25:03.906
And so I think that's where I tell people yes, no, you definitely want to enjoy your sessions, you want to enjoy your therapist, make sure that they're a good fit, but that you should be very clear on the work that's being done in there, so you know that there's a treatment plan and that you are leaving feeling like you're meeting those goals of getting getting the relief that you need.
00:25:03.906 --> 00:25:18.259
That you could not get from going out for coffee with a friend or a casual conversation with people, it's got to be deeper than that oh, I mean, well, yes, and therapy is, it's, it's something that this is our specialty.
00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:20.762
Uh, we build for services.
00:25:20.762 --> 00:25:30.256
So, and I, I'll tell patients that if, um, if their phone rings in session and they want want to excuse me, I'm going to answer this.
00:25:30.256 --> 00:25:58.761
I'm, I just think, okay, that's you know, you're paying me right now, but if you would, you know, want to spend time on the phone and I'd rather be working with you, but that's your call.
00:25:58.761 --> 00:25:59.321
Yeah, do you know?
00:25:59.321 --> 00:25:59.642
So it is.
00:25:59.642 --> 00:26:07.605
And I have to remind people that when they come in, yeah, when the treatment plan is going so long, I mean you're billing per session.
00:26:07.605 --> 00:26:13.169
So I think it's part of their awareness of that.
00:26:13.409 --> 00:26:18.990
Yeah, your therapist has to be very mindful of that too.
00:26:18.990 --> 00:26:27.376
And just not, you know, they should be updating you on where they're going, where the progress is be monitoring.
00:26:27.376 --> 00:26:30.981
So that's just some other things to think about when you get into a relationship.
00:26:30.981 --> 00:26:37.510
And, yeah, time frame, I mean that's what I would like to know if I'm getting into something that I'm paying for.
00:26:37.510 --> 00:26:42.026
How many weeks, how many sessions, how long are these, what do they cost?
00:26:42.026 --> 00:26:45.203
How do I know when we're done?
00:26:45.203 --> 00:26:52.365
These are all the kinds of things that people have questions about that may not get answered up front.
00:26:52.765 --> 00:26:53.006
Yeah.
00:26:55.470 --> 00:26:59.346
Okay, so I think this was a lot of good information.
00:26:59.346 --> 00:27:21.807
Hopefully we followed up on some of the questions and if you haven't listened to the episode, it was I think it was titled Hidden Truth, that your therapist may not share, but it was the last episode that was published, so definitely go to Psychologist Say and download.
00:27:21.807 --> 00:27:24.299
And thanks for joining us.
00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:25.182
Thank you, harold.
00:27:25.182 --> 00:27:26.946
Great, I know you're mind spinning.
00:27:26.946 --> 00:27:28.359
You have a lot more questions.
00:27:28.520 --> 00:27:29.284
Oh yeah, for sure.
00:27:29.634 --> 00:27:40.041
So we will definitely have a lot more, many more conversations about this, but we'll sign off for today, miigwetch, for listening, and we'll see you later.
00:27:40.041 --> 00:27:42.367
Ps.
00:27:42.367 --> 00:27:49.566
Finding the right therapist is just like shopping, so take your time, do your research and invest wisely.
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