Chase Damiano - Mastering Leadership and Scaling Your Business

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Today, I'm excited to welcome Chase Domaino to
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Proteo Conversations. Chase is a founder of Uminet
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Scale, where he helps accounting firms build
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businesses that are scalable, operationally efficient,
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and less dependent on the owner. His background
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is anything but traditional, starting as a chemical
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engineer student before moving into management
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consulting and entrepreneurship. Chase has developed
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a unique perspective on leadership, systems,
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and sustainable growth. Today, he works with
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accounting firm owners to strengthen their operations,
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develop leaders, and create businesses that continue
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to thrive and grow. Chase, great to see you.
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Welcome to Proteo Conversations. Hey, Zane. Thanks
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for having me on. Yeah, I'm excited. You know,
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I was looking through my notes and I say that
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extremely loosely on like how we met and I, you
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know, look back and... I was fortunate enough
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that I found that we got introduced by our good
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friend, Joe Manganielli. Joe has been on the
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podcast before, great episode. Everybody should
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go to listen. But I do feel like he did a really
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great job of matching people, especially to a
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surly difficult person like me, to people that
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I actually really like, admire. And now I get
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the opportunity to introduce you and learn a
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little bit more about you. So this is exciting,
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exciting moment for me. Well, I don't perceive
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you as surly or difficult. So something must
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be going right here. Or I just, you catch me
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on a good day normally. Cause I think even my
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wife would describe me as surly and difficult.
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So, but this is, this is exciting. I want to
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start right at the beginning and I had a look
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and you started out as chemical engineer. Is
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that correct? Yeah, I did chemical engineering.
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Explain. How'd it get there? Um, well, when I
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was in high school, I had a... I had a fascination
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with chemistry and it was one of my favorite
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classes. I had great teachers in chemistry and,
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you know, I was on the path to pursue a chemistry
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major. My dad, you know, as many dads do sort
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of intervene and says like, Hey, have you considered,
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you know, chemical engineering? It's like a really
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well -paying job. And, you know, have you looked
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at that? And I was like, yeah, sure. So I kind
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of just went down that path for a bit and You
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know, chemical engineering is very unlike chemistry.
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Surely there's, there's some overlap, but you
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know, chemical engineering has quite a lot more
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math, more math included into it. And yeah, that
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was, yeah, that was my major. I did a five -year
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co -op, five -year experience at Virginia Tech
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and did a co -op internship during that period
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of time as well. And yeah, that got me, that
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got me started with everything. I ended up loving
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it at the end. You pursued that as a career afterwards?
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I know there was a... dual major in economics
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going on at the same time. Based on the history
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I can see of you, it doesn't seem like it was
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something that really became the core job from
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the get -go. No, you're right. When I graduated,
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I was fortunate to have two different job offers
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and one was with DuPont out in Delaware to essentially
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pursue my dream job, which was designing engineering
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equipment for manufacturing. At least I thought
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that was my dream job at the time. But, but instead
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life took me in another direction. I was gifted
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with a son during my time at university and he
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and his mom had moved to the DC area. You know,
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Delaware and DC are close, but not like close
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enough. So I had another job opportunity right
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after. Right after college for a company, I knew
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nothing about what is consulting. I don't even
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know what this is. The company is called Accenture.
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I really just had no clue. So I ended up just,
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hey, I'm just going to pursue that path and see
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where it goes just so I can live close to my
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son in the DC area. And so that's when chemical
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engineering formally came to a close for me.
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The message on like Delaware being close to Washington
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DC is like, you know, we've got a map at home
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where we like scratch off all the states that
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we visited. We made an effort of taking the train
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because we knew it would have a stop in Delaware
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that we could then claim we'd been to Delaware
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because there was no good reason to visit Delaware
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with a young kid. You know, it was like, what
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am I going to do in Delaware with it? I think
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at the time there were four and six or something
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like that. So that's my only real interaction
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with Delaware other than that people start LLCs
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there for sort of privacy reasons. Well, it sounds
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like, you know, you, it sounds like you have
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an opinion on the age old debate. If you landed
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an airport in a, in a new country, have you really
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been to that country? Would you check it off?
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I would not check off an airport because I treat
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them as independent space. I think a train stop
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is a little bit different because that's a real
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stop. There's some movement, there's some hustle,
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there's people in and out. Or airport, especially,
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you know, a lot of the countries I've visited
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through airports. I mean, I've only seen the
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airport. I don't know what that country is about.
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A lot of those airports, I don't even know what
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the weather is like, you know, you go through
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Dubai. I have no idea. You can't see what the
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weather is like out there, you know, until you
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step outside and you're like, oh, it's 195 degrees
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and I'm melting. But so I think train stations
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count any drive through counts, but I think,
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you know, an airport's a little different. The
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same as like I flew over the whole of the U S
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multiple times doesn't mean I visited all those
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states. Hmm. Of course. I like that. I like your
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perspective. I also wouldn't count airports.
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Never thought about train stations though, but
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you're right. You can, there's a lot more flexibility
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and it's slower moving. So you can actually see
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what's going on there. I like that. Yeah, I'm
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claiming it because I don't particularly want
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to, but who knows? You know, my kids are still
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young. Maybe we'll do a road trip and we really
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touch the soil and count it a second time. So
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you went to Accenture, obviously realized pretty
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quickly then that it was more than just this
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random company reaching out to you and it was
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quite a massive opportunity. Yeah, yeah. I got
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the opportunity to, you know, work on a handful
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of clients to include some Fortune 50 companies
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as well as some, you know, Series D tech startups
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while at Accenture, which was pretty unique for
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Accenture, especially in the DC area with so
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much of Accenture's business is federal. But
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yeah, that was about three years there. It met
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my goal of being close to my son, but also it
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opened up my world towards business and consulting,
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just things I just knew very little about. I
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was able to apply some understanding from engineering
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and economics into that world, but really just
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started learning as like, wow, that everything's
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way more people -oriented or people -driven than
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I ever would have imagined. Yeah. Talk about
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the goal of spending time with your son. I mean,
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obviously... There's obviously some difficulty
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in, I mean, I know as a parent, there's no difficulty
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in making a decision to be close to your kid,
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but you gave up what you thought was your dream
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job, right? There must have been a little twinge,
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but obviously the ultimate goal is a lot more
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important, but that all worked out. You got to
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spend the time. You got the relationship that
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you're looking for. Oh my God. It's so, it's
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so worked out. One of the best decisions I've
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ever made. And at the time it felt like sort
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of a conflict of... Hey, what do I really want
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to do here? But I'm very proud of that 22, 23
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year old version of myself for making the right
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choice. That person gave me the gift to become
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the person who I am today and I'm proud of that
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person today. And I have a wonderful relationship
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with my son and great experience, great time
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in my career as well. How does a 22 year old,
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23 year old make that decision? It feels like,
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I've tried thinking back when I was 22, 23, I
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was dumb, stupid. single, no kids, and I was
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making stupid decisions on a regular basis. Like,
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how do you go about making that decision in what
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is probably, you know, the same thing, right?
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I think the stats show 22, 23 old males, their
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brains haven't totally formed yet and we're not
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that great at making decisions, but that seems
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like a very mature decision that you took at
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that point in time. Yeah, thank you. I thought
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about, you know, before Jeff Bezos regret minimization
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framework. Came out or perhaps he was incubating
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at the time or it wasn't popularized. I was thinking
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about regret. I was thinking about is like, okay,
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is this, is this going to be a life in pursuit
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of myself, you know, going down this career path?
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Hey, this is, this is what I wanted, or at least
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what I thought I wanted at the time. Or do I
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really want to deepen my connection with my son
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and really like be in his life? Much more so.
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When he was born, me and his mom went to different
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universities, long term relationship and she
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ended up moving back home to a suburb of Richmond,
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Virginia at the time. So there was always distance
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there. So it was a decision as like, do I want
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to just continue distance when I can totally
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control that? So what helped facilitate that,
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of course, is I had friends moving up to the
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DC area for work as well. Friends that were also
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joining Accenture and that sort of facilitated
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and made the decision a little bit easier. I
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knew I wasn't going to be alone or isolated in
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this. So that, you know, just putting two and
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two together just led me into the choice to be
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like, hey, I'm going to do this. Was there ever
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a moment or is there a moment that you remember
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that goes like... You're like, yes, this is the
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right decision. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, from,
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from then I haven't looked back at all. It's
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hard for me to even imagine what my world would
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be like in engineering having gone down that
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other path. It was so long ago at this point
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that it's just hard to predict how things turned
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out. Maybe there's a proxy by, by seeing, you
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know, how some of my other colleagues have progressed
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in their careers and, you know, their lives and
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whatnot, but it's not recognizable to me. So.
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I feel so firmly confident that I made the right
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choice. Again, because I've gotten to do so much
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more and since then, and again, a beautiful relationship
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with my son. And that plus part is the most important
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part, right? Like that creating that relationship
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makes every decision worthwhile. Yeah, I agree.
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Okay. So when from chemical engineering to consultant.
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To coffee coffee. Yeah. Yeah, it was a while
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during my time at Accenture I had met met a guy
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there who then became my future business partner
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We both ended up leaving our roles at Accenture
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to spin up a coffee company It started in like
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central started in central, Virginia and the
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whole idea is like bringing craft coffee premium
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roasted coffee to the metro DC area and It evolved
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from there. We had a brick and mortar strategy
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for a bit. Then, you know, a wholesale business,
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an online business, sort of finding our way through,
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ultimately hitting on what became our claim to
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fame, which is nitro cold brew coffee in offices.
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So the idea being is that, you know, employees
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want amenities in the office. This was a time
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where, you know, ping pong tables and arcade
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games and things like that were becoming more
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popular, especially at big tech companies. How
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can any office get access to amenities that employees
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would actually use? Well, you know, over 50 %
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of the United States drinks coffee and a growing
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population at that time, especially in millennial
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and Gen Z, were drinking cold coffee. So we packaged
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it into kegs. We put it into kegerators and deployed
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them on site at these offices as an employee
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amenity. And it ended up being really successful.
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We had a number of name brand companies as our
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as our clients and we were able to grow outside
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the DC area through the mid Atlantic up through
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New York, Boston, Philadelphia, and then eventually
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the company went national. So we're very, very
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proud with what we were created. And again, we
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sort of stumbled on the answer. Didn't realize
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that there would be demand for this product that
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we were just innovating and creating as we went.
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And, and sure enough, it just became what it
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became. So you basically took your your knowledge
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from being a business consultant, telling people
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how to run a business to creating your own business,
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going through all the life cycles and change
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of strategies that good business people will
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do to make sure that their goal and vision is
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eventually reached. Yep, more or less. And what
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was interesting in how we differentiated in the
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partnership of those that were running the company
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is we took that, we had that business and engineering
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mind. to bring into the coffee world as opposed
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to what we call being a coffee artist. We wanted
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to bring in those folks, amazing coffee roasters,
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amazing brewers, but that was not our own personal
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identity, which is, in many cases, in many industries,
00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:44.820
if you love the product, then you can become
00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:47.000
a business owner and you're creating that product.
00:12:47.059 --> 00:12:49.539
I'm sure you see that, Zane, in the wine industry
00:12:49.539 --> 00:12:52.590
as well. So our viewpoint was slightly different,
00:12:52.909 --> 00:12:55.330
though we also really, really cared about the
00:12:55.330 --> 00:12:59.070
coffee at the same time. We would go to the producing
00:12:59.070 --> 00:13:01.570
countries. We would build relationships. We would
00:13:01.570 --> 00:13:04.149
make direct trades. We really cared about quality.
00:13:04.350 --> 00:13:08.049
We studied coffee endlessly, trying to brew this
00:13:08.049 --> 00:13:11.789
perfect product, bringing that blend of art and
00:13:11.789 --> 00:13:13.690
science together and to create something really
00:13:13.690 --> 00:13:16.070
incredible. And we think we succeeded. The company
00:13:16.070 --> 00:13:18.649
is still going to this day, right? So something
00:13:18.649 --> 00:13:21.129
is going on. It's still going to this day. That's
00:13:21.129 --> 00:13:22.710
right. I mean, I think you touched on a really
00:13:22.710 --> 00:13:24.509
good point there just for like business owners
00:13:24.509 --> 00:13:26.590
in general and anybody trying to build anything.
00:13:26.730 --> 00:13:28.629
It's great to be able to have good processes,
00:13:28.629 --> 00:13:31.029
you know, be able to do the things you need to
00:13:31.029 --> 00:13:33.110
do. But I think you need to be able to blend
00:13:33.110 --> 00:13:35.009
that with a little bit of passion as well. If
00:13:35.009 --> 00:13:37.190
you don't truly care about the product of what
00:13:37.190 --> 00:13:39.730
you're doing, I don't care how good your processes
00:13:39.730 --> 00:13:42.830
are, you're never going to be successful. I totally
00:13:42.830 --> 00:13:45.200
agree. And also, even as the business owner,
00:13:45.299 --> 00:13:47.659
you have to ask yourself, why am I doing this?
00:13:47.860 --> 00:13:50.740
Are you just in it because you're trying to make
00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:52.700
money or you're trying to find something to do
00:13:52.700 --> 00:13:56.379
with your time? I really believe in a life. It's
00:13:56.379 --> 00:13:59.820
a life well lived. It's like we all deserve to
00:13:59.820 --> 00:14:03.019
deeply care about what we are creating in this
00:14:03.019 --> 00:14:05.440
world, whether that's happening through work
00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:08.580
or our relationships and families or whatever
00:14:08.580 --> 00:14:12.070
our craft or art form is. you know, feeling that
00:14:12.070 --> 00:14:14.230
connection, feeling, feeling the passion, as
00:14:14.230 --> 00:14:17.370
you said, is so critical, so important. It's
00:14:17.370 --> 00:14:19.750
our, it's the life force, it's life energy to
00:14:19.750 --> 00:14:22.450
me, to me at least. So I totally agree. You have
00:14:22.450 --> 00:14:24.389
to do, you have to do both. You have to care.
00:14:25.470 --> 00:14:27.429
The one warning sign is that passion is not going
00:14:27.429 --> 00:14:29.269
to be enough. So you do need at least the business
00:14:29.269 --> 00:14:31.830
acumen. Get the right people around you to help
00:14:31.830 --> 00:14:33.509
you with the business acumen, to bring it all
00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:35.549
together. Because passion, and we see this in
00:14:35.549 --> 00:14:37.470
the wine space all the time, lots of passion,
00:14:37.970 --> 00:14:39.769
no business sense. It doesn't matter how good
00:14:39.769 --> 00:14:41.450
that product is. If you don't know how to run
00:14:41.450 --> 00:14:43.669
the business, it's going to fail. I also agree
00:14:43.669 --> 00:14:45.210
with that. There's probably a lot of people out
00:14:45.210 --> 00:14:46.570
there that don't have passion and just a lot
00:14:46.570 --> 00:14:48.450
of good business acumen make it. It's not a life
00:14:48.450 --> 00:14:50.570
I want to live. You know, I do what I do because
00:14:50.570 --> 00:14:52.990
I love helping people. That's what gets me up
00:14:52.990 --> 00:14:55.710
in the morning. And I think that makes, you know.
00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:57.779
It makes me able to do it for a longer period
00:14:57.779 --> 00:14:59.879
of time and a little bit of happiness with whatever
00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:02.139
we do in life just makes everything so much easier.
00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:05.740
Yeah. I totally agree. And you know, the gift
00:15:05.740 --> 00:15:08.139
of business ownership is you get to work with
00:15:08.139 --> 00:15:10.840
those people in your team and the customers or
00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:12.820
clients that you're serving, your vendors and
00:15:12.820 --> 00:15:14.360
partnerships, the community that you're part
00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:18.259
of. You get to see, I'm sure Zane, you see this
00:15:18.259 --> 00:15:20.519
in your business as well. You get to see that
00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:23.659
impact on a very, very regular basis. And it
00:15:23.659 --> 00:15:25.899
feels really, really good. Yeah. And, you know,
00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:28.460
that's for me specifically, that's what keeps
00:15:28.460 --> 00:15:30.659
me going, right? Is that, that impact, it could
00:15:30.659 --> 00:15:33.200
be the smallest, the little change. So you see
00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:35.240
somebody or they're like, Oh, I didn't know that.
00:15:35.899 --> 00:15:37.860
It sort of gives me that next motivation to keep
00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:40.120
moving, keep going, keep moving. And I, you know,
00:15:40.220 --> 00:15:42.419
it makes, makes all the difference. Love it.
00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:44.519
So talk a little bit about the coffee side, right?
00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:46.440
I think, you know, we spoke about passion and
00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:49.259
having process, but you still have to scale.
00:15:49.460 --> 00:15:51.480
There had to be some decisions along the way.
00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:55.919
And I, you know, I think this is when I have
00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:58.399
conversations about this a lot of time and people
00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:01.759
want to go from, what is it, 500 ,000 to a million.
00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:03.740
They want to go from a million to 2 million and
00:16:03.740 --> 00:16:08.500
there's hurdles all along the way. And I think
00:16:08.500 --> 00:16:11.039
people just like, even though there's resources,
00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:13.980
there's books, there's peer groups, you know,
00:16:13.980 --> 00:16:15.899
there's services that can help you with those.
00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:21.159
I think people still get really stuck in understanding
00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:25.379
how do they scale. And this will run into your
00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:27.820
current venture pretty well. I think this will
00:16:27.820 --> 00:16:30.559
be a good segue. But a lot of the time it's,
00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:33.320
it's me, right? I am that biggest bottleneck
00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:36.279
that is stopping the scale ability of my business
00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:39.039
because everything just gets all clumped into
00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:41.500
me. You know, it feels like, you know, the Beaver
00:16:41.500 --> 00:16:43.240
built the dam and the water can't get through.
00:16:43.460 --> 00:16:45.799
And I'm, I'm that dam that I'm the Beaver and
00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:47.779
the dam that, you know, created the problem.
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:50.480
So talk, talk to me about like, I mean, I'm sure
00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:51.960
you went through this with a coffee company,
00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:54.850
right? You spoke about making these moves, these
00:16:54.850 --> 00:16:56.450
adjustments, and you go to the company's website
00:16:56.450 --> 00:16:58.330
right now and they've got all of those things
00:16:58.330 --> 00:17:01.190
going on, but you know, there's decisions and
00:17:01.190 --> 00:17:03.529
people would have had to let go of things and
00:17:03.529 --> 00:17:05.250
everybody would have had to taken up their role,
00:17:05.490 --> 00:17:07.650
hire the right people and get consultants in.
00:17:08.630 --> 00:17:11.769
How do we do this? Like you've been through it.
00:17:12.230 --> 00:17:15.609
Tell us the secret. Okay. I'll tell you the secret.
00:17:16.549 --> 00:17:20.910
So here's how, here's how I did it. didn't do
00:17:20.910 --> 00:17:23.990
any of those things and it created a tremendous
00:17:23.990 --> 00:17:27.529
amount of pain in my life and career. My approach,
00:17:27.950 --> 00:17:30.230
so in the coffee company, I served as the chief
00:17:30.230 --> 00:17:33.190
operating officer. That was my role. So my job
00:17:33.190 --> 00:17:36.910
as all COOs are is translating vision into execution
00:17:36.910 --> 00:17:39.930
and then actually building the operation, hiring
00:17:39.930 --> 00:17:42.809
the people, allowing this all to work. And we
00:17:42.809 --> 00:17:45.869
are a... we're a coffee company. So a lot of
00:17:45.869 --> 00:17:48.670
my focus was in the manufacturing and distribution
00:17:48.670 --> 00:17:52.309
and customer success and retail operation, which
00:17:52.309 --> 00:17:54.869
is both, you know, salaried and hourly roles
00:17:54.869 --> 00:17:57.910
and sort of this, like this hodgepodge and mix.
00:17:58.069 --> 00:18:00.890
Meanwhile, cashflow is always relatively weak.
00:18:00.890 --> 00:18:03.049
So how do you bring in great people if you can't
00:18:03.049 --> 00:18:05.470
pan well is like all this sort of dance that
00:18:05.470 --> 00:18:08.230
you have to do. And yeah, I was young when I
00:18:08.230 --> 00:18:11.490
did it and I don't think I did it very well in
00:18:11.490 --> 00:18:14.269
the beginning. I brought in a lot of patterns
00:18:14.269 --> 00:18:17.430
from what I, what I thought leadership was back
00:18:17.430 --> 00:18:20.450
then, which was you have to know the most. You
00:18:20.450 --> 00:18:22.970
have to look strong. You have to have things
00:18:22.970 --> 00:18:26.170
figured out. You have to be confident and you
00:18:26.170 --> 00:18:31.349
have to show, show a face. So, you know, 500
00:18:31.349 --> 00:18:33.710
K, like you said, 500 K, a million, 2 million.
00:18:33.849 --> 00:18:35.269
Here we go. We're like, we're doing the whole
00:18:35.269 --> 00:18:39.130
run. And all of a sudden, like the hours I was
00:18:39.130 --> 00:18:43.390
working became insane. The. The load, the cognitive
00:18:43.390 --> 00:18:46.609
load was too much to bear. I felt involved in
00:18:46.609 --> 00:18:49.769
every decision. I had a team of 40 people working
00:18:49.769 --> 00:18:51.890
for me. I was involved every meeting, every decision,
00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:54.829
every Slack channel, copied on every email. Cause
00:18:54.829 --> 00:18:56.410
I didn't know anything different. I didn't know
00:18:56.410 --> 00:18:58.170
how to delegate. I didn't know how to empower
00:18:58.170 --> 00:18:59.950
people. I didn't know how to create autonomy.
00:19:00.410 --> 00:19:02.789
I didn't know how to create infrastructure that
00:19:02.789 --> 00:19:04.529
allow people to figure out their roles and like
00:19:04.529 --> 00:19:06.230
work together. I didn't know any of that. And
00:19:06.230 --> 00:19:08.650
so as a result, what happened is like I totally
00:19:08.650 --> 00:19:11.230
burned out. I had a breakdown. I had to go up,
00:19:11.390 --> 00:19:12.990
go to my leadership team. I didn't, I don't know
00:19:12.990 --> 00:19:14.990
if I could do this anymore. It was a very painful
00:19:14.990 --> 00:19:18.049
moment for me, for someone who felt as like,
00:19:18.130 --> 00:19:20.170
oh, I can do anything. Suddenly I couldn't do
00:19:20.170 --> 00:19:22.990
this. Suddenly I had to ask for help for what
00:19:22.990 --> 00:19:25.309
felt like the first time in my life. And that
00:19:25.309 --> 00:19:27.769
was hard. It was hard to come to terms with that.
00:19:27.910 --> 00:19:30.430
I, I, at that time I got coaching and mentorship.
00:19:30.529 --> 00:19:33.329
Uh, I, I installed frameworks into the business
00:19:33.329 --> 00:19:37.289
that allowed that infrastructure to exist, and
00:19:37.289 --> 00:19:40.170
it radically changed my life, and it radically
00:19:40.170 --> 00:19:42.269
changed the lives of the people that were in
00:19:42.269 --> 00:19:44.150
the business, and it radically changed the business
00:19:44.150 --> 00:19:47.410
all at once. I couldn't believe it. I was like,
00:19:47.569 --> 00:19:51.150
I had to go through an identity shift on what
00:19:51.150 --> 00:19:54.250
leadership was, what my role actually was, and
00:19:54.250 --> 00:19:57.309
who I needed to be to step into this next stage
00:19:57.309 --> 00:20:00.769
of the company. And the end result was I was
00:20:00.769 --> 00:20:02.710
working more of a standard set of hours. I could
00:20:02.710 --> 00:20:05.390
think more strategically and work on big picture
00:20:05.390 --> 00:20:09.990
things. I had a team that felt responsible, autonomous.
00:20:10.430 --> 00:20:13.369
They felt like they had real weight, that their
00:20:13.369 --> 00:20:16.750
roles had meaning, that it had a piece of it.
00:20:16.869 --> 00:20:19.109
It's not just, you know, helping chase, if you
00:20:19.109 --> 00:20:22.089
will. And then business results continued to
00:20:22.089 --> 00:20:25.329
grow. And I just, I couldn't believe it. It was
00:20:25.329 --> 00:20:28.019
like, what happened here? And I think what happened
00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:30.980
is by installing these things in the business,
00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:34.279
it helped me see who did I need to be in this
00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:38.920
next stage. And that was the secret. So the secret
00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:43.220
is like, I went into a ton of pain in order to
00:20:43.220 --> 00:20:46.299
finally realize that this is not what leadership
00:20:46.299 --> 00:20:49.099
is meant to be. My job is not to take power,
00:20:49.140 --> 00:20:52.759
it's to give power. My job is not to do things,
00:20:52.819 --> 00:20:56.450
it's to teach things. And that identity shift
00:20:56.450 --> 00:20:58.789
allowed the organization to continue to scale
00:20:58.789 --> 00:21:01.150
and take me out of the equation. A lot of questions
00:21:01.150 --> 00:21:03.390
I have as a follow up from that, but let's start
00:21:03.390 --> 00:21:05.829
with this one because maybe it's the most personal
00:21:05.829 --> 00:21:08.589
to me and my experience as well. You realized
00:21:08.589 --> 00:21:12.069
it's too much and burned out, right? In my personal
00:21:12.069 --> 00:21:14.630
situation, when I realized it, it was because
00:21:14.630 --> 00:21:17.549
I probably would have died, right? Like I probably
00:21:17.549 --> 00:21:19.710
would have had a heart attack and just not been
00:21:19.710 --> 00:21:24.849
around anymore. It really shouldn't be, both
00:21:24.849 --> 00:21:27.289
of those are terrible. Like burnout, you know,
00:21:27.390 --> 00:21:29.329
people say, oh, I'm burned out. Real burnout
00:21:29.329 --> 00:21:31.789
can last for years afterwards, right? Like it
00:21:31.789 --> 00:21:34.470
has an effect on your internals, like your health,
00:21:34.509 --> 00:21:36.809
like long -term health. Like it is a terrible
00:21:36.809 --> 00:21:39.069
thing to do that you get to that point. What
00:21:39.069 --> 00:21:41.109
are the signs that people should be looking for
00:21:41.109 --> 00:21:44.609
so that they don't go through the same route
00:21:44.609 --> 00:21:46.089
that you and I have gone through and getting
00:21:46.089 --> 00:21:48.609
to a point where it is so detrimental to our
00:21:48.609 --> 00:21:52.740
health, both physically and mentally? That you
00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:55.039
know, some of us will get out on the other side.
00:21:55.220 --> 00:21:57.500
Obviously, you know You're you're better living
00:21:57.500 --> 00:21:59.759
a better health. I've had to take steps to make
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:01.740
sure my health is better and all those types
00:22:01.740 --> 00:22:04.880
of things but you know that there there are people
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:07.380
that don't learn and they obviously go too far
00:22:07.380 --> 00:22:11.000
and the outcome is a lot worse, but What how
00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:13.059
do we tell people like how do we show people
00:22:13.059 --> 00:22:14.920
or put a guide like hey? These are the things
00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:18.779
you should be looking out for mmm great question
00:22:19.409 --> 00:22:22.150
In my experience, here's how it showed up for
00:22:22.150 --> 00:22:25.650
me. I wanted to be alone. I wanted to hold myself
00:22:25.650 --> 00:22:29.069
up. I didn't want to engage with my team. I didn't
00:22:29.069 --> 00:22:31.450
want to answer questions. Not from the, not from
00:22:31.450 --> 00:22:34.329
the perspective of like, oh, I shouldn't be answering
00:22:34.329 --> 00:22:36.589
these questions because I'm COO and whatnot.
00:22:36.829 --> 00:22:40.450
I was like, I didn't want to answer them. When
00:22:40.450 --> 00:22:43.569
I walked into our office, I always, I felt that
00:22:43.569 --> 00:22:45.890
there was like almost a dark energy or shadow
00:22:45.890 --> 00:22:49.740
that, that was there. I didn't realize that I
00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:53.619
was the problem. I didn't realize that the relationships
00:22:53.619 --> 00:22:57.559
I built with the people felt fabricated. I felt
00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:00.279
my interest in other activities and things just
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:03.940
stopped. I wanted to slow down. I thought about
00:23:03.940 --> 00:23:07.480
quitting or leaving. I became more interested
00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:10.299
in other things, which in startup life is like,
00:23:10.579 --> 00:23:13.420
wow, you're like, you know, radically interested
00:23:13.420 --> 00:23:14.720
in what you're doing and what you're building.
00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:17.670
I started becoming disinterested. So that was
00:23:17.670 --> 00:23:20.609
me. I started, it was closing down, which really
00:23:20.609 --> 00:23:23.230
was a sign is like I needed, I needed a breath.
00:23:23.430 --> 00:23:25.910
I needed to just take a breath. And I totally
00:23:25.910 --> 00:23:28.670
agree. Real burnout perpetuates for a long time.
00:23:29.089 --> 00:23:32.589
I think it took me four to five years after this
00:23:32.589 --> 00:23:35.650
experience, like really reset things. So which
00:23:35.650 --> 00:23:39.869
ultimately I ended up in 2019 having to voluntarily
00:23:39.869 --> 00:23:42.049
step out of the organization. Not just due to
00:23:42.049 --> 00:23:44.269
burnout, there are other factors. I didn't see
00:23:44.269 --> 00:23:47.200
my personal career continuing. with this particular
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:50.019
company, I'd felt actually my job there was done
00:23:50.019 --> 00:23:53.259
and that there were people that were better aligned
00:23:53.259 --> 00:23:55.000
to the future direction of organization than
00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:57.759
I was. So, which was an incredibly difficult
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:00.920
decision for me to make in my career, but ultimately
00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:03.799
again, the right one. Never looked back. Yeah.
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:06.559
That's a good point. Just close up on the burnout
00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:10.019
situation. If you're surrounded by people and
00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:12.500
feeling lonely, or if you're doing something
00:24:12.500 --> 00:24:14.160
that you used to have a passion for and you're
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:16.420
no longer feeling passionate for. There's a good
00:24:16.420 --> 00:24:18.900
chance you've overworked yourself. You're at
00:24:18.900 --> 00:24:20.559
that point of burnout and those are the signs
00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:22.500
you need to look for. A lot of people will tell
00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:25.400
you leadership is lonely. It is lonely, but you
00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:28.380
should never feel alone. And the moment you start
00:24:28.380 --> 00:24:31.660
feeling alone, that major alarm bell that you
00:24:31.660 --> 00:24:33.799
should be listening to and you need to make a
00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:36.900
change. Yeah, you need to get help. You need
00:24:36.900 --> 00:24:41.160
to talk to someone. And personally, Speak with
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:43.160
other founders, speak with other business owners,
00:24:43.299 --> 00:24:45.920
because I think that we do not talk about these
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:49.000
things enough. Again, because of this perception
00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:51.680
that we need to look strong, that we figured
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.619
it out. You know, when you go off and raise a
00:24:54.619 --> 00:24:56.299
bunch of money, you want to have that persona
00:24:56.299 --> 00:24:59.059
with your investors. You might have it with your
00:24:59.059 --> 00:25:00.819
customers, with your own internal employees,
00:25:00.940 --> 00:25:03.420
even possibly your co -founder. Your spouse or
00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:05.339
significant other can hear you. You're going
00:25:05.339 --> 00:25:08.309
to bring things to them. But they may or may
00:25:08.309 --> 00:25:10.730
not have lived in that seat. And if they haven't
00:25:10.730 --> 00:25:12.650
lived in the seat, sometimes that advice, at
00:25:12.650 --> 00:25:14.390
least in my experience, the advice was like,
00:25:14.589 --> 00:25:16.569
you know, I feel it on the surface, but it's
00:25:16.569 --> 00:25:18.990
not deeply getting into my core in order to help
00:25:18.990 --> 00:25:22.609
drive a change in my behavior. So I found a lot
00:25:22.609 --> 00:25:25.950
of community with other business owners to just
00:25:25.950 --> 00:25:27.809
talk about this. And there are many communities
00:25:27.809 --> 00:25:30.150
out there that can. that can, that can share
00:25:30.150 --> 00:25:32.190
more of this is like they're open environments,
00:25:32.369 --> 00:25:35.470
things like EO, Vistage, YPO, whatnot, that they're
00:25:35.470 --> 00:25:37.109
built for some of this purpose, but you have
00:25:37.109 --> 00:25:39.549
to talk to someone. No, 100 % agree. And it could
00:25:39.549 --> 00:25:41.789
be as simple as something like just another person
00:25:41.789 --> 00:25:43.569
in the similar industry that you met and grab
00:25:43.569 --> 00:25:46.509
a lot, you know, lunch every now and then, you
00:25:46.509 --> 00:25:49.349
know, a little van session between each other
00:25:49.349 --> 00:25:52.609
and move on. Like it can make such a big difference.
00:25:53.150 --> 00:25:56.079
Just to share, right? To again, If you're feeling
00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:58.420
alone, that's a problem, but there is that loneliness.
00:25:58.700 --> 00:26:00.079
But when you realize there's other people going
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:02.799
through similar experiences that you are and
00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:04.380
you can learn from what they've done well, they
00:26:04.380 --> 00:26:06.019
can learn from what you've done well. And that
00:26:06.019 --> 00:26:09.720
sharing of ideas is a good way to grow. It's
00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:14.319
a good way to curb that burnout ability that's
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:16.640
going to come through. And it is a good way to
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:19.960
just sort of continue to move yourself forward
00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:23.079
without, you know, breaking yourself down. That's
00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:25.579
great. But there is the flip side of it, right?
00:26:25.660 --> 00:26:27.940
You had to go to your, your partners, you had
00:26:27.940 --> 00:26:30.880
to tell them how you felt. It's a moment of,
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:33.259
it's a moment of strength, but I'm sure at the
00:26:33.259 --> 00:26:36.480
moment you probably felt pretty weak because
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:38.900
we all do, right? Like nobody wants to say, damn
00:26:38.900 --> 00:26:41.359
it, I can't do this anymore. That, that, that's,
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:43.220
that's a bit of pull for us to swallow, especially
00:26:43.220 --> 00:26:45.779
for people who have been successful that have
00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:48.539
been able to do a lot on their own. And then
00:26:48.539 --> 00:26:50.180
you had to go into this point where it's like
00:26:50.180 --> 00:26:53.329
now. I have to be counter to whatever I used
00:26:53.329 --> 00:26:55.609
to do and I have to rely on other people, teach
00:26:55.609 --> 00:26:58.009
other people. And I know you said it was a change
00:26:58.009 --> 00:27:00.849
in mind shift of what leadership is, but that's
00:27:00.849 --> 00:27:04.690
still not easy to do. And learning those skills,
00:27:04.829 --> 00:27:06.869
I mean, just the skill of delegation is probably
00:27:06.869 --> 00:27:09.150
the hardest skill that anybody has ever had to
00:27:09.150 --> 00:27:11.650
learn in their lives because we've all been sort
00:27:11.650 --> 00:27:13.750
of taught this way to trust ourselves more than
00:27:13.750 --> 00:27:17.200
to trust others. How do we do this? Like this
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:19.920
right here is the crux of how do we keep people
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:22.420
healthy and happy? Like, how do we learn these
00:27:22.420 --> 00:27:24.539
skills? How do we trust our teams? How do we
00:27:24.539 --> 00:27:28.119
build this environment that allows us to succeed,
00:27:28.579 --> 00:27:31.039
succeed our team to succeed and overall succeed
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:34.740
together? Yeah, I think that there is a muscle
00:27:34.740 --> 00:27:38.339
memory around delegation. So first of all, back
00:27:38.339 --> 00:27:40.599
up. Yeah, that moment when I had shared with
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:43.960
my leadership team did... feel both like a moment
00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:46.960
of strength and weakness, mostly weakness, honestly.
00:27:47.779 --> 00:27:50.299
Mostly weakness. Because from that position,
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:52.799
that initial lens is like, I couldn't do it.
00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:55.740
If you've built your identity and your life on,
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:59.859
I can do it. Something that you can't do feels
00:27:59.859 --> 00:28:03.680
awful. However, there is something in there,
00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.119
which I didn't learn until later, is the power
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:09.839
of vulnerability and how vulnerability ties to
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:13.490
leadership. Amy Edmison, who's a researcher out
00:28:13.490 --> 00:28:16.829
of Harvard, talks about this concept of psychological
00:28:16.829 --> 00:28:19.710
safety. This topic really got a lot of traction,
00:28:19.730 --> 00:28:21.849
especially during the pandemic, with some also
00:28:21.849 --> 00:28:24.710
misnomers on what psychological safety is. But
00:28:24.710 --> 00:28:28.390
what it really is is a team's feeling of interpersonal
00:28:28.390 --> 00:28:32.430
safety, that they can take an interpersonal risk
00:28:32.430 --> 00:28:36.289
without some sort of crash out from the leader
00:28:36.289 --> 00:28:39.079
or the rest of the team. And what that really
00:28:39.079 --> 00:28:41.759
means is that in order to create that safety,
00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:44.599
the leader themselves has to set that container.
00:28:44.819 --> 00:28:47.119
They're the number one influencer of creating
00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:49.279
psychological safety or not. And I think a lot
00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:51.460
of that is through vulnerability. It's about
00:28:51.460 --> 00:28:54.240
being real. It's about, yeah, maybe you don't
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.359
have to rah, rah, confident all the time. Tell
00:28:56.359 --> 00:28:58.279
people how it is. Tell people how you really
00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:01.180
feel. It creates this container of safety that
00:29:01.180 --> 00:29:04.779
actually is highly correlated with team learning
00:29:04.779 --> 00:29:06.700
behaviors, which is then correlated with team
00:29:06.700 --> 00:29:09.460
performance. And this is, this is, this is across
00:29:09.460 --> 00:29:12.099
any, any type of team, any type of company. So,
00:29:12.099 --> 00:29:13.660
so I think there, I think there's something,
00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:16.779
I think there's something in there. And Zane,
00:29:16.779 --> 00:29:18.920
remind me of your other question. I got lost
00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:21.339
on a tangent there. No, no, that's the, you,
00:29:21.339 --> 00:29:23.279
you've answered it. Like, this is like, how do
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:25.900
we, how do we learn the skills? But you know,
00:29:26.339 --> 00:29:28.359
it's not even about learning the skills, right?
00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:30.960
It's it, you, you've sort of covered it. Like
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:33.059
who cares about learning the skills? What it
00:29:33.059 --> 00:29:36.359
is, is this realization that people perform best.
00:29:36.670 --> 00:29:39.049
when they feel safe and you've got to learn to
00:29:39.049 --> 00:29:42.130
create that environment. I'm a big believer in
00:29:42.130 --> 00:29:43.849
that. I know there's all the books out of there.
00:29:44.009 --> 00:29:46.609
I've read some of them, like when people feel
00:29:46.609 --> 00:29:49.029
safe, they feel like they can be themselves.
00:29:49.190 --> 00:29:52.589
They feel like they can make well judgment decisions
00:29:52.589 --> 00:29:55.349
and not, you know, have negative, obviously there
00:29:55.349 --> 00:29:57.849
can be some negatives, but, you know, that it
00:29:57.849 --> 00:30:00.589
won't just lead to like an explosion. Like all
00:30:00.589 --> 00:30:03.569
of these things make people perform better because
00:30:03.569 --> 00:30:08.490
when people feel safe and secure, they do feel
00:30:08.490 --> 00:30:10.369
a little bit more relief. There is no tension.
00:30:10.430 --> 00:30:12.069
They're a little bit more efficient and they
00:30:12.069 --> 00:30:14.309
get to do what they do really well, which is
00:30:14.309 --> 00:30:15.730
the reason you hired them in the first place.
00:30:16.029 --> 00:30:18.589
That's right. And I want to tie that into delegation.
00:30:18.650 --> 00:30:20.990
I just remembered. So how does, how does one
00:30:20.990 --> 00:30:23.109
build the skill and delegation, as I mentioned,
00:30:23.250 --> 00:30:26.079
is like muscle memory. A lot of times the way
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:28.500
that leaders, especially business owners, see
00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:30.440
delegation and why they struggle with it is like
00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:32.539
they've tried to delegate and it doesn't go the
00:30:32.539 --> 00:30:35.640
way they want. And usually because it doesn't
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:38.400
go the way they want, they adapt, they create
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:41.400
this mindset where it's just faster if I do it
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:43.519
myself. Why would I train someone else to do
00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:46.400
it? I already know how. It's actually more, it
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:48.759
creates this bottlenecking. I think that's the
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:52.339
beginning of bottlenecking because yeah, you're
00:30:52.339 --> 00:30:54.539
probably, you probably are. as you're a firm
00:30:54.539 --> 00:30:57.299
owner, a business owner, the best in doing this
00:30:57.299 --> 00:31:00.400
task. Why? You've had so much experience in doing
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:02.779
it. You've found all the efficiencies. Of course
00:31:02.779 --> 00:31:05.480
it's going to take you 20 minutes to do it and
00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:07.160
it's going to take them five hours to figure
00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:09.640
it out. And so the mental math sounds like it
00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:12.160
doesn't check out, but you know, compound that
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:14.079
across a hundred different things. Like you're
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:16.500
getting yourself stuck in a job as opposed to
00:31:16.500 --> 00:31:19.099
owning a business. So to help me personally with
00:31:19.099 --> 00:31:22.700
this, I created a framework around delegating
00:31:22.700 --> 00:31:26.480
that helps it stick and the driver of it is really
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:28.660
getting the context out of the leader's head
00:31:28.660 --> 00:31:31.039
and into the hearts and minds of the team. Six
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:33.740
components, naming the responsibility, describing
00:31:33.740 --> 00:31:36.079
it in one or two sentences, showing what success
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:39.099
looks like, articulating a process if it needs
00:31:39.099 --> 00:31:41.759
to get done in a certain way, defining the decisions
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:43.819
that they make that you can make or that others
00:31:43.819 --> 00:31:45.920
need to make and what resources can you give
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:48.440
them to enable them to do the task well. And
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:51.759
you define these things. It really clears it.
00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:53.900
It helps with the definition, but also the training
00:31:53.900 --> 00:31:55.559
of the thing that you're trying to delegate.
00:31:55.700 --> 00:31:58.700
And I've really found it successful in terms
00:31:58.700 --> 00:32:01.400
of like having that shared context. The fun part
00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:03.259
is, and Blake Oliver is the one that pointed
00:32:03.259 --> 00:32:06.200
this out, is that, you know, as we approach AI,
00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:09.220
it's the same thing. The framework doesn't change.
00:32:09.619 --> 00:32:11.279
Cause running straight through my head. As you
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:12.920
were saying, I was like, that sounds like a prompt
00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:15.559
engineering at its best right there. It's all
00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:18.640
language. It's all context. And whoever is doing
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:22.279
the task, like, you know, we are AI and AI is
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:25.079
us. Like it was created out of us, out of human,
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:28.160
how humans work and think and write. And so they
00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:30.200
end up being the same thing. Absolutely fascinating.
00:32:30.460 --> 00:32:32.480
And systems are so important and having a system
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:34.779
to delegate like that. If anybody wants to take
00:32:34.779 --> 00:32:36.559
anything, I'll probably snip that, put it up
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:39.259
as a short to people. People can claim that because
00:32:39.259 --> 00:32:42.619
that is like perfection right there. So that's
00:32:42.619 --> 00:32:44.829
good. But you are helping accountants right now,
00:32:44.910 --> 00:32:47.430
right? Talk about a place of people that run
00:32:47.430 --> 00:32:49.089
themselves to burnout, think they have to do
00:32:49.089 --> 00:32:50.789
everything themselves, don't want to delegate
00:32:50.789 --> 00:32:52.789
because I can do it quicker than everybody else.
00:32:53.130 --> 00:32:56.029
And you've gone, well, there's a bottleneck.
00:32:56.049 --> 00:32:58.609
They need help. I'm going to help them. So tell
00:32:58.609 --> 00:33:01.809
me about Youmin at scale. Sure. Well, this is
00:33:01.809 --> 00:33:05.269
what we do. We are a strategic operations agency
00:33:05.269 --> 00:33:08.369
for accounting firms. The number one problem
00:33:08.369 --> 00:33:12.079
that we solve are firm owner bottlenecks. The
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:14.160
firm owner gets to a point where not only are
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:16.259
they managing the clients, but managing the team
00:33:16.259 --> 00:33:19.000
and also some of the administrative stuff. And
00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:21.059
they might have people, they might have roles
00:33:21.059 --> 00:33:24.240
filled to do these things. And yet somehow they've
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:27.839
found themselves too over concerned or too stuck
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:30.359
inside their own business. Again, they have a
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:33.220
job as opposed to being a business owner. So
00:33:33.220 --> 00:33:37.000
what we do is we come in with an approach around
00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:40.180
operations that acknowledges that it's sort of
00:33:40.180 --> 00:33:43.950
this. entangled ball of people and process and
00:33:43.950 --> 00:33:47.029
data and culture and technology altogether. And
00:33:47.029 --> 00:33:50.769
we systematically disentangle it, put in new
00:33:50.769 --> 00:33:53.410
systems, habits, behaviors, and routines across
00:33:53.410 --> 00:33:56.670
the entire company to allow the firm owner to
00:33:56.670 --> 00:34:00.049
get relief on no longer having to work in the
00:34:00.049 --> 00:34:03.950
day to day so that they can focus on either reclaiming
00:34:03.950 --> 00:34:07.150
their time for themselves or focus more on vision,
00:34:07.470 --> 00:34:10.690
growth. sales opportunities, possibly acquisition
00:34:10.690 --> 00:34:12.889
and future succession planning, all the things
00:34:12.889 --> 00:34:15.150
that just require their thought. So intrigued
00:34:15.150 --> 00:34:17.150
by the people that would come to you, right?
00:34:17.309 --> 00:34:18.949
Because it feels like there has to have been
00:34:18.949 --> 00:34:22.969
some major realization point or awakening from
00:34:22.969 --> 00:34:25.409
these firm owners to actually have to sort you
00:34:25.409 --> 00:34:28.130
out, right? And it's like, I get like stuck back,
00:34:28.329 --> 00:34:29.929
like most of the time these people don't even
00:34:29.929 --> 00:34:31.710
understand they have a problem, right? But those
00:34:31.710 --> 00:34:32.750
are probably not the ones that you're working
00:34:32.750 --> 00:34:35.019
with. These are the ones that have From whatever
00:34:35.019 --> 00:34:36.800
realization in their life, maybe it was their
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:39.280
own burnout, maybe it was a loved one telling
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:41.239
them, hey, this is too much. Maybe it's their
00:34:41.239 --> 00:34:42.400
team coming and say, hey, we're going to walk
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:44.719
out the door if you don't let go. There has to
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:47.239
have been a big moment that they're like, we
00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:51.900
need help and Chase is not going. Usually. We
00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:54.739
find that it goes both ways, but you're right,
00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:57.860
Zane, that some awakening happens. I call them
00:34:57.860 --> 00:35:02.000
catalytic events. It's that event where the status
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:06.320
quo. simply cannot continue and things must change
00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:09.199
at all costs. And in my story that I shared today,
00:35:09.340 --> 00:35:11.860
I had my own version of this catalytic event
00:35:11.860 --> 00:35:14.239
where that status quo could not continue at all
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:16.420
costs. Like I had to radically change my behavior.
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:19.699
I need to hire and get help to help me do that.
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:22.679
So we see ourselves in the same way. Now the
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:25.360
interesting part is, you know, human at scale
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:28.039
is not coaching. And we are also not traditional
00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:30.199
consulting. This is not about creating a bunch
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:32.480
of deliverables for people to have that awakening
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:34.539
themselves where they see is like, oh, this is
00:35:34.539 --> 00:35:37.059
different. We actually drive the execution and
00:35:37.059 --> 00:35:39.579
implementation of this. We're professional change
00:35:39.579 --> 00:35:42.519
managers that help take these firms from point
00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:46.000
A to point B. And included in that is not just
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:49.320
working with the CEO, but also the entire firm.
00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:52.199
So because again, in order to give relief to
00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:54.980
any firm owner bottlenecks, the rest of the company
00:35:54.980 --> 00:35:57.780
needs to be operating at high performance to
00:35:57.780 --> 00:36:01.239
build that trust so that the firm owner can delegate
00:36:01.239 --> 00:36:04.300
more, see how the system is getting built. so
00:36:04.300 --> 00:36:06.880
that teams can get empowered and do their jobs
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:09.719
well. And they no longer have to have all this
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:11.400
back and forth sometimes with the firm owner.
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:14.239
So it's really this beautiful process that we've
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:17.349
created. around not just helping the firm owner,
00:36:17.369 --> 00:36:19.909
but also helping the team. It's this massive
00:36:19.909 --> 00:36:22.110
upleveling that happens across the entire firm.
00:36:22.269 --> 00:36:24.630
And typically it also leads to greater employee
00:36:24.630 --> 00:36:27.289
retention, higher revenue growth, some profit
00:36:27.289 --> 00:36:29.309
growth, depending on the strategy that they're
00:36:29.309 --> 00:36:31.969
trying to obtain. Happier clients, better use
00:36:31.969 --> 00:36:33.929
of technology, better use of practice management
00:36:33.929 --> 00:36:36.809
tools. It's all one thing. Again, operations
00:36:36.809 --> 00:36:39.949
is this like ball of all these things all at
00:36:39.949 --> 00:36:42.110
once. So we systematically put the things in
00:36:42.110 --> 00:36:45.289
place to give that relief to everyone. Yeah,
00:36:45.389 --> 00:36:48.489
I love on your website, you know, it's like sound
00:36:48.489 --> 00:36:50.550
familiar. You're busy all day yet the firm still
00:36:50.550 --> 00:36:53.250
can't operate without you. I think that's just
00:36:53.250 --> 00:36:55.929
like such a great question. And I know it's so
00:36:55.929 --> 00:36:58.230
simple and like, Oh, of course. Right. But this
00:36:58.230 --> 00:36:59.789
is something I had a couple of years ago back
00:36:59.789 --> 00:37:02.050
where I was like, you know, if I dropped dead
00:37:02.050 --> 00:37:04.309
tomorrow, which was a real, you know, I'm working
00:37:04.309 --> 00:37:07.309
myself to the bone, like this could happen. Like
00:37:07.309 --> 00:37:10.610
this will probably cease to exist in a few, a
00:37:10.610 --> 00:37:13.010
few months, you know. I wanted at the time, I
00:37:13.010 --> 00:37:14.769
would want to sell myself in a few years, but
00:37:14.769 --> 00:37:16.130
realistically probably in a few months, because
00:37:16.130 --> 00:37:17.989
I was doing everything. I was the gatekeeper
00:37:17.989 --> 00:37:20.369
to everything. Nobody could make their decisions
00:37:20.369 --> 00:37:23.329
and that's a bad place to be. And you have to
00:37:23.329 --> 00:37:28.010
learn to let go and get the help. Even if it
00:37:28.010 --> 00:37:30.889
is just to find more time to do things you love,
00:37:31.329 --> 00:37:34.809
it can make a huge difference. I also think it's
00:37:34.809 --> 00:37:37.590
in the business owner's financial incentive as
00:37:37.590 --> 00:37:40.949
well. If you've ever wanted to exit your firm.
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:45.179
then what would a buyer be most interested in?
00:37:45.380 --> 00:37:48.099
Are they interested in an overworked firm that's
00:37:48.099 --> 00:37:50.699
run by an overworked firm owner in which they've
00:37:50.699 --> 00:37:52.360
stitched together all the things and they're
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:55.320
the key person risk? The valuation on such a
00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:57.500
firm is going to look more like an acquihire
00:37:57.500 --> 00:38:00.880
or a depressed valuation simply because the operation
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:03.119
isn't turnkey. It's really the firm owner who
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:06.619
has created that well -oiled machine. Clients
00:38:06.619 --> 00:38:08.900
are happy. People are happy. We have new business
00:38:08.900 --> 00:38:11.199
coming in. Everything's systemized and doesn't
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:13.920
require that firm owner to be there in the same
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:15.920
way and show up in the same way. They're going
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:18.159
to get such a higher and more premium valuation
00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:20.159
because they actually have a business. And that's
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:22.860
the transformation that we are creating with
00:38:22.860 --> 00:38:25.079
firm owners, like help them get out of that day
00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:27.579
to day so that they get, they get their time
00:38:27.579 --> 00:38:29.480
back, but they are also getting a premium if
00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:31.320
they choose to sell. So when you walk into a
00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:33.360
firm, like what's that like easy win that you
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:35.949
see? more times than most when it comes to firm
00:38:35.949 --> 00:38:37.750
owners and trying to help them with their operations.
00:38:38.530 --> 00:38:42.030
I think the easiest win I see is reprogramming
00:38:42.030 --> 00:38:44.949
a firm's system of meetings that governs how
00:38:44.949 --> 00:38:48.389
the organization runs. Like many companies, meetings
00:38:48.389 --> 00:38:50.989
are often a waste of time or they don't happen
00:38:50.989 --> 00:38:53.750
enough and it's a lot of asynchronous communication,
00:38:53.829 --> 00:38:56.250
a lot of back and forth, a lot of using email
00:38:56.250 --> 00:38:59.929
or messages to answer things and it creates this
00:38:59.929 --> 00:39:02.489
slowness. It looks like speed, but it's slowness.
00:39:02.750 --> 00:39:05.829
So we install a system of meetings that helps
00:39:05.829 --> 00:39:08.690
the firm improve communication, especially around
00:39:08.690 --> 00:39:12.239
the metrics that matter. So, system of meetings,
00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:15.440
building operating dashboards so we know we make
00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:17.800
work visible. We're clear on the operating metrics.
00:39:17.980 --> 00:39:20.019
The firm owner is clear on what's going on. Team
00:39:20.019 --> 00:39:23.219
is clear on what they need to be doing. Clarifying
00:39:23.219 --> 00:39:25.980
roles. Again, sometimes walking in is like, okay,
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:27.880
who's working on this client and what's my job
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:29.539
on this one and this one? And how many clients
00:39:29.539 --> 00:39:31.780
do we even have and what services do we offer?
00:39:32.139 --> 00:39:34.940
Because it's gotten all custom and our packaging
00:39:34.940 --> 00:39:38.690
isn't as good. So, it's creating clarity. It's
00:39:38.690 --> 00:39:40.789
mapping, mapping all of this out, helping the
00:39:40.789 --> 00:39:42.909
firm owner make decisions and helping this team
00:39:42.909 --> 00:39:45.449
see those decisions being made so they know what
00:39:45.449 --> 00:39:48.809
they need to do. Usually those simple things
00:39:48.809 --> 00:39:51.789
we see time and time again and firm owners just
00:39:51.789 --> 00:39:54.409
like, wow, it's great. Instead of me jumping
00:39:54.409 --> 00:39:56.449
into a meeting, me figuring out what we want
00:39:56.449 --> 00:39:58.650
to talk about, they're able to just sit back
00:39:58.650 --> 00:40:01.630
and read reports and like talk to the team and
00:40:01.630 --> 00:40:04.250
like have insight happen inside their own mind.
00:40:04.369 --> 00:40:06.969
They're taking notes. It's like, okay, I now...
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:09.440
I'm no longer drowning as much. Now I'm, now
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:11.199
I'm popping out for a breath of fresh air and
00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:13.960
now I can think. And the firm needs that firm
00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:17.920
owner thinking. That it's a huge asset. It's
00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:19.360
going to help the core of the company. It's going
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:21.500
to help see the vision and move things forward.
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:23.340
And if we don't have firm owner thinking, it's
00:40:23.340 --> 00:40:25.699
never going to move forward. So that's what we
00:40:25.699 --> 00:40:28.519
help create. How do we get that mind, like those,
00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:31.199
those firm owners to change their mind, like
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:32.780
mind shift, like how do they shift their minds?
00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:36.079
Right. Because I think we're all like. especially
00:40:36.079 --> 00:40:39.500
accountants, most of us have grown up in this
00:40:39.500 --> 00:40:41.980
compliance world where we do, do, do, do, do,
00:40:41.980 --> 00:40:45.860
do, do, right? And I would say, and I'm super
00:40:45.860 --> 00:40:48.860
generalizing right here, but a lot of accountants
00:40:48.860 --> 00:40:52.539
don't really have that entrepreneurial mindset.
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:55.480
And a lot of them sort of are accidental entrepreneurs
00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:57.400
and through this process, because that's just
00:40:57.400 --> 00:40:59.380
what we do as accountants. We go open our firm
00:40:59.380 --> 00:41:01.460
and hang our name and all those good things.
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:04.380
And then they realize like, it's not the same.
00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:07.320
You can't just be a doer, there's a little bit
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:11.159
more to it, but that requires a big shift in
00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:13.320
mindset to be able to make those adjustments.
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:16.800
And what, how do we get either, how do we get
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:18.699
them to change that mind shift or what is that
00:41:18.699 --> 00:41:20.420
mind shift that needs to occur for these people
00:41:20.420 --> 00:41:23.199
to be successful? There's a really great book
00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:26.320
out there called The E -Myth Revisited. And I
00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:28.480
think it's Michael Gerber who wrote this. He
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:31.940
talks about the technician, the manager, and
00:41:31.940 --> 00:41:34.519
the entrepreneur. The technician is concerned
00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:37.760
with the doing. They're the crafts person. If
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:39.619
you're running a bakery, it's the person that
00:41:39.619 --> 00:41:41.699
bakes the pies. And you're really good at baking
00:41:41.699 --> 00:41:44.340
pies. That's why you got into the business. But
00:41:44.340 --> 00:41:47.039
at that level, that's what you do. You're busy,
00:41:47.059 --> 00:41:49.260
you do the doing, you make the sales and that's
00:41:49.260 --> 00:41:52.940
it. At the level of manager is building the system
00:41:52.940 --> 00:41:56.039
or the architecture to make the baking of pies
00:41:56.039 --> 00:41:58.820
possible. So it's concerning with things like
00:41:58.820 --> 00:42:02.150
the location and the... you know, and pricing
00:42:02.150 --> 00:42:06.130
and hiring and the process or system by which
00:42:06.130 --> 00:42:08.289
these pies are being made. And then finally is
00:42:08.289 --> 00:42:11.409
the level of the entrepreneur, which is about
00:42:11.409 --> 00:42:15.429
vision and creativity and in some ways expansion.
00:42:15.869 --> 00:42:19.289
and not being concerned with how the day -to
00:42:19.289 --> 00:42:21.909
-day is run, but more concerned about what is
00:42:21.909 --> 00:42:24.269
possible, where things are going, more future
00:42:24.269 --> 00:42:27.889
orientation. And for accountants, many of them
00:42:27.889 --> 00:42:29.570
that are running their own firms are stuck in
00:42:29.570 --> 00:42:32.710
that technician mindset. Where again, it's like,
00:42:32.989 --> 00:42:35.389
I'm the best accountant, I've been doing this
00:42:35.389 --> 00:42:38.909
for 20, 30 plus years, and that is my identity,
00:42:39.210 --> 00:42:42.110
and I also run a business. I think that's great.
00:42:42.289 --> 00:42:44.639
I think that's a very beautiful thing. But in
00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:47.360
most cases, that's only going to get you so far
00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:49.619
before things start getting stuck. You start
00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:51.139
getting really busy and then you're going to
00:42:51.139 --> 00:42:52.699
think to yourself is like, wait a second, why
00:42:52.699 --> 00:42:55.059
did I hire all these people again? I think things
00:42:55.059 --> 00:42:57.239
were simpler when I had fewer clients and it
00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:59.480
was just me and a handful of contractors and
00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:01.199
whatnot. We tell ourselves that story, right?
00:43:01.579 --> 00:43:04.820
So it's that evolution of mindset from technician
00:43:04.820 --> 00:43:07.659
to manager and manager to entrepreneur that is
00:43:07.659 --> 00:43:10.280
necessary here. And for human at scale, how we
00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:13.440
help we step in in that management layer where
00:43:13.670 --> 00:43:16.250
We're building the system and architecture to
00:43:16.250 --> 00:43:20.789
allow the business to run and scale without the
00:43:20.789 --> 00:43:24.110
CEO, the firm owner needing to do it. And our
00:43:24.110 --> 00:43:27.289
belief is that that helps this motion of no longer
00:43:27.289 --> 00:43:29.409
seeing themselves as a technician, but more as
00:43:29.409 --> 00:43:31.469
the entrepreneur. They can skip that middle step.
00:43:31.630 --> 00:43:33.750
Yeah, I love that. And as accountants, we love
00:43:33.750 --> 00:43:36.190
systems. And if Chase and his team can come in
00:43:36.190 --> 00:43:38.110
and help you build a system, like I feel like
00:43:38.110 --> 00:43:40.769
go give him a phone call right now because, you
00:43:40.769 --> 00:43:42.849
know. He'll help you put that in place, make
00:43:42.849 --> 00:43:44.849
you feel very good about yourself as an accountant,
00:43:44.969 --> 00:43:46.650
that there is a system, and give you the best
00:43:46.650 --> 00:43:48.809
opportunity to be successful. So that's great.
00:43:49.829 --> 00:43:52.250
What is one, like, best piece of advice you would
00:43:52.250 --> 00:43:56.170
give any leader right now? Like, what is that
00:43:56.170 --> 00:43:58.170
a piece of advice? Maybe something that was told
00:43:58.170 --> 00:44:00.130
to you, something you've heard, something you've
00:44:00.130 --> 00:44:01.829
read. Like, what is that piece of advice that
00:44:01.829 --> 00:44:03.809
would make a difference in any leader's life
00:44:03.809 --> 00:44:09.980
today? I think that find hard problems. And then
00:44:09.980 --> 00:44:12.179
solve them. First of all, that's more entrepreneurial
00:44:12.179 --> 00:44:15.599
advice than I think leadership advice. But it's
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:18.460
really could be that simple. I read about this,
00:44:18.460 --> 00:44:20.739
hear about it, learn about it. I don't think
00:44:20.739 --> 00:44:23.960
I quite got it until much later on and kind of
00:44:23.960 --> 00:44:26.539
slapped me in the face and getting it and previous
00:44:26.539 --> 00:44:29.920
failed adventures and just like, I was just building
00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:33.000
things that people didn't want. So if you're
00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:35.340
ever lost or you're not making as much money
00:44:35.340 --> 00:44:37.260
as you want, or there's not as much traction.
00:44:37.710 --> 00:44:40.329
Go talk to more customers or prospective customers,
00:44:40.510 --> 00:44:41.909
learn where their problems are and find ways
00:44:41.909 --> 00:44:43.650
to solve them. It can be that simple. I think
00:44:43.650 --> 00:44:46.750
from a leadership angle, tell people, you know,
00:44:46.909 --> 00:44:49.730
everything I think is inward. It's like all the
00:44:49.730 --> 00:44:51.989
answers you're looking for in terms of leadership
00:44:51.989 --> 00:44:54.949
are inward. You can use a lot of different tools
00:44:54.949 --> 00:44:58.210
to look inward. I mean, there's things like meditation
00:44:58.210 --> 00:45:02.389
and journaling and breath work and yoga and receiving
00:45:02.389 --> 00:45:06.099
feedback from your team and self -inquiry and
00:45:06.099 --> 00:45:08.239
therapy and coaching and personality assessments,
00:45:08.440 --> 00:45:10.179
even plant medicines too, is like there's so
00:45:10.179 --> 00:45:13.340
many tools to like, to help you know yourself,
00:45:13.579 --> 00:45:16.519
which is where all your power is, your leadership.
00:45:16.699 --> 00:45:19.340
Find people that you trust to give you feedback,
00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:21.920
honestly, and build a safe environment for your
00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:24.440
team to give you feedback, honestly, ask for
00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:26.800
it proactively. I think that those tools are
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:30.239
like on the path to help develop one's leadership.
00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:33.099
Chase, this has been a great conversation. But
00:45:33.099 --> 00:45:35.139
it wouldn't be a project conversation if we don't
00:45:35.139 --> 00:45:37.360
talk a little bit about you as a person and just,
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:39.639
you know, take two minutes and just tell us about
00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:41.340
like, what do you do in your spare time? Like
00:45:41.340 --> 00:45:43.840
who's chased the person outside of business?
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:47.820
Yeah, I think the, so I create games. I grew
00:45:47.820 --> 00:45:50.760
up playing video games of all types, strategy,
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:54.019
RPG games, online games and whatnot. And I've
00:45:54.019 --> 00:45:56.780
actually designed a card game. It's called bowl
00:45:56.780 --> 00:46:00.889
of punishments and it's built to Create a feeling
00:46:00.889 --> 00:46:03.230
of like ragging on your friends a little bit,
00:46:03.510 --> 00:46:06.010
whereas maybe alcohol would have been the thing,
00:46:06.389 --> 00:46:09.030
you know, to, to use to like help rag on your
00:46:09.030 --> 00:46:11.010
friends, but it kind of creates a feeling for,
00:46:11.090 --> 00:46:13.690
it's a game for close friends to, you know, increase,
00:46:13.849 --> 00:46:16.619
increase connection. But I used to code games
00:46:16.619 --> 00:46:19.019
and visual basic turn, you know, turn in like
00:46:19.019 --> 00:46:21.400
English school projects with, by like coding
00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:23.460
a game, burning it on a floppy disk and like,
00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:26.699
and turning it in. And, um, yeah, I have a workout
00:46:26.699 --> 00:46:29.400
group here locally in Bend, Oregon, and, uh,
00:46:29.420 --> 00:46:31.699
it's like it's peer workout. So we all take a
00:46:31.699 --> 00:46:33.440
turn of doing it. So I'll create like a game,
00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:36.579
like a settlers, a Katan themed workout or a
00:46:36.579 --> 00:46:38.800
monopoly themed workout. I love games. I love
00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:40.780
creating games specifically. Ben to come hang
00:46:40.780 --> 00:46:42.820
out with you. That sounds like fun. Yeah, let's
00:46:42.820 --> 00:46:46.300
hang. Yeah. I really have appreciated this. We
00:46:46.300 --> 00:46:49.400
always end part of our conversations with some
00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:51.860
rapid fire, so I got five questions for you if
00:46:51.860 --> 00:46:55.739
you're ready. Let's do it. What's one productivity
00:46:55.739 --> 00:46:58.820
tool app you could not live without? Notion.
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:03.880
Right. It's everything in our business. We are
00:47:03.880 --> 00:47:07.019
Notion fanatics and yeah, it's amazing. Coffee
00:47:07.019 --> 00:47:10.920
or tea? Coffee, obviously. So tell us like, is
00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:12.639
there a local roaster that you like or is there
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:14.800
one that I can go order online? Like what's the
00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:18.460
go -to? CommonwealthJoe .com. Virginia Roasted
00:47:18.460 --> 00:47:20.579
Coffee based out of DC area. Really high quality
00:47:20.579 --> 00:47:22.780
product. We put a lot of care into that. Absolute
00:47:22.780 --> 00:47:26.400
entrepreneur right there. If you could have a
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:28.679
dinner with any entrepreneur, living or dead,
00:47:28.699 --> 00:47:35.780
who would it be? Dinner? Hmm. You know, love
00:47:35.780 --> 00:47:38.889
him or hate him. I still think Elon Musk. Love
00:47:38.889 --> 00:47:42.530
them or hate them. That guy has something going
00:47:42.530 --> 00:47:45.489
on. Like he knows certain things, you know, and
00:47:45.489 --> 00:47:47.150
I would love an opportunity to learn from him.
00:47:47.849 --> 00:47:51.250
That's a great option. What's your dream vacation?
00:47:51.469 --> 00:47:54.789
Dream vacation, a lot of open space and a lot
00:47:54.789 --> 00:47:58.690
of unscheduled time. And then, you know, doesn't
00:47:58.690 --> 00:48:01.349
matter what, where it is or the activity is like,
00:48:01.570 --> 00:48:04.369
that's, that's my type of vacation. And I'm going
00:48:04.369 --> 00:48:06.929
to switch up the last one quickly. Favorite board
00:48:06.929 --> 00:48:10.329
game of all time. favorite board game of all
00:48:10.329 --> 00:48:13.550
time, of all time. This isn't much of a board
00:48:13.550 --> 00:48:14.369
game. Or what you're like right now. I mean,
00:48:14.789 --> 00:48:17.630
you can swing it however you like. I'm into,
00:48:17.750 --> 00:48:20.510
this isn't a board game, but I'm into Set and
00:48:20.510 --> 00:48:23.789
The Mind, which is a really fascinating game.
00:48:24.070 --> 00:48:27.030
And then I love playing Rummy Cub, also known
00:48:27.030 --> 00:48:29.269
as Rummy Cube. I don't know which to pronounce
00:48:29.269 --> 00:48:32.789
it by. I think Cub is where we have it in our
00:48:32.789 --> 00:48:35.289
house. And I like it too, but between my 10 year
00:48:35.289 --> 00:48:38.500
old and my wife, I consistently lose. And I'm
00:48:38.500 --> 00:48:42.179
a terrible loser and a worst winner, but I definitely
00:48:42.179 --> 00:48:44.619
push things aside that I am not that getting
00:48:44.619 --> 00:48:48.340
beaten by a 10 year old is never fun. Yeah, well.
00:48:48.679 --> 00:48:50.139
Chase, I appreciate the time. It was wonderful
00:48:50.139 --> 00:48:52.780
to have you on Project Conversations. I appreciate
00:48:52.780 --> 00:48:54.860
it, Zane. Thanks for having me on. And with that,
00:48:54.980 --> 00:48:57.599
we end another Project Conversations. Thank you
00:48:57.599 --> 00:48:59.739
for joining us in this journey of learning and
00:48:59.739 --> 00:49:02.530
inspiration. Today we've gained insight from
00:49:02.530 --> 00:49:04.710
our guests and taken another step towards understanding
00:49:04.710 --> 00:49:06.710
the diverse tapestry of leadership in business
00:49:06.710 --> 00:49:09.289
and accounting. Remember, each conversation is
00:49:09.289 --> 00:49:11.530
a step towards a positive transformation of business
00:49:11.530 --> 00:49:13.929
leaders. We hope our discussion has given you
00:49:13.929 --> 00:49:15.750
valuable takeaways to apply in your own career
00:49:15.750 --> 00:49:18.329
and life. Don't forget to subscribe to Prairie
00:49:18.329 --> 00:49:20.670
Conversations on YouTube and Spotify, so you
00:49:20.670 --> 00:49:23.289
never miss an episode. We'd also love to hear
00:49:23.289 --> 00:49:25.170
your thoughts and experiences, so connect with
00:49:25.170 --> 00:49:27.469
me on social media channels. I'm most active
00:49:27.469 --> 00:49:29.449
on LinkedIn and would love you to join the conversation.
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Join us next time for more engaging stories,
00:49:32.789 --> 00:49:35.530
advice, and conversations like that. Until then,
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keep striving for excellence and grace and growth.
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Thank you for listening, be kind, and goodbye
00:49:40.789 --> 00:49:41.929
from Project Conversations.