Michael Mathews - Connecting Food, Business, and Leadership

WEBVTT
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On today's product conversations, our guest is
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Michael Matthews, a finance and strategy leader
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who has spent his career helping organizations
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grow, improve performance, and create long -term
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enterprise value. Michael has experienced both
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inside organizations and as an advisor to leadership
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teams, giving him a unique perspective on how
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strategy, financial leadership, all translate
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into real operational results. Early in his career,
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he was involved with ToGo Advisory Group, where
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he worked closely with companies to strengthen
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their financial and strategic foundations. Today,
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Michael works in a corporate leadership role
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where he continues to maintain connections to
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the advisory world, offering insight into the
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differences between advising businesses and operating
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within them. Beyond his professional work, Michael
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also serves as an advisory board member for Wondered
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Ads, an organization focused on building community
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and support for fathers. In this conversation,
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we'll explore his move from advisory work back
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into the corporate environment, what leaders
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often misunderstand about creating enterprise
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value, and how experience outside of work, like
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his involvement with Wondered Ads, shape how
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he thinks about leadership and impact. Let's
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welcome Michael to the show. Mike, it's great
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to see you. Welcome to Proteo Conversations.
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Great to be here. Thanks Ian. So I'm going to
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start with a totally off the cuff question to
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get this going today. You work at Hog Island
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and I love their oysters. Like do you get, I
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mean, is that something you enjoy? Is something
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you get to try out a little bit or what's the
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perks? They give you some, some, some employee
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discount on that side. Well, let it be known
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that when I come home without any, I get yelled
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at by my wife and my six -year -old daughter,
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who has also developed a taste for them. So it's
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really fun to bring your work home with you and
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enjoy what you do with your friends and in your
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own home. But it's fun, you know, different days
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we'll have meetings on different accounting topics
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or budgets, and sometimes those can be exciting,
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some days it can drag on, but other days... Folks
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from the production side, uh, the different farms
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will come in and say, Hey, we just harvested
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this new batch of such and such oysters. Give
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them a try. This is what you're tasting. This
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is how they're special. These are the conditions
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that they're going on. This is what we're going
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to do with them over the next few months. And
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that's really exciting too, because it's just
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random and it just happens. I am jealous. I definitely
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am a fan. Uh, I had said one of the restaurants
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a couple of weeks ago now and I had. where we'd
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basically just like give us them all, but you
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know, a limited number of it. And I just, it
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was just having the person I was with doesn't
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really like the big ones. I love the big ones.
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So I, you know, jumped in. It was just a, it's
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a great experience. The people at the restaurant
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always surprised me with the depth of knowledge.
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I'm sure it's obviously, you know, the script
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has been given to them, but they're all really
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well -prepared, can give the real good feedback.
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And, you know, with the person I was with as
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well, asked very specifically, like, I like this
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type of oyster. And they just jumped in, were
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able to give the best recommendation and the
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ones they recommended, which were not the ones
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that, you know, I asked for the ones, you know,
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were perfect for his taste buds. So that was,
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it was pretty amazing to see. And it, you know,
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seems like a great I mean, I can complain, I
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get a lot of free wine, but some free oysters
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sounds like an even better perk. Oh, that's great
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to hear. I'm glad you had that type of experience.
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What's also interesting in the restaurant business,
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you know, there's, there's high turnover, but
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at Hog Island, a lot of the folks that work in
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our different restaurants have been there for
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quite a while. They've developed all this knowledge.
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They've learned, they've asked questions, they're
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curious and they want to be there. So it really
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says something about, about their experience
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and what they're doing. I mean, yeah, that is
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a great sign because restaurants tend to have
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huge turnover, but that's good to hear that they're
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keeping around. But I guess it's a bit more than
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just a restaurant, right? There is this bit of
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an experiential side to it as well that makes
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it exciting when you do go into one of the restaurants.
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Yeah, there's a certain energy. There's nothing
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like finding a seat at the oyster bar itself.
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Sitting down and looking what the offerings are
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for that day and watching those chefs do their
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work. The shucker is working hard. They're on
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the go all day, making sure that the right type
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of oysters open the right way and serve beautifully
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on your plate. I mean, it's hard work and it's
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an important part of the experience. No, it's
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fantastic. So that's where you are right now,
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but it's not really the whole story of your journey.
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Let's ask the most boring question. How did you
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decide to get into the world of accounting? In
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college, I had different experiences, internships
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where I started to develop an understanding that
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understanding how all parts of the organization
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worked was really important. I worked with different
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folks in different environments, with different
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companies, and I knew some really smart people
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that were really knowledgeable about their particular
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area. But I noticed or observed that the people
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who had an understanding around how all those
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areas connected really were able to make an impact
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on the company. And so taking those experiences
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in mind, I thought accounting would be the way
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to go in college because one, it was the hardest
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major at school. And so I definitely like a challenge,
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but at the same respect, I can develop. this
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numeric foundation, but also use that as the
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basis to work with and understand all the different
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parts of the company. And that's what I did at
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school and that's how I've designed my career.
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But the other thing about school was that, you
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know, understanding accounting rules, understanding
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finance, all fine and good. But what I also came
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to realize is that Understanding how my brain
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works is important. Understanding how your brain
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works is really important. Our ability to communicate
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depends on not just the words that we want to
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choose and share with each other, but how we
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take in information and how we process information.
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And with that in mind, I minored in psychology.
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One reason was I wanted to say hippocampus a
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lot more than... You know, I had the chance in
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my accounting classes, but the other reason was
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to understand that side of human nature in our
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behaviors, in our physical structures. The thought
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process was if I understand how my brain works
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and I understand how your brain works, we can
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communicate a little bit better. For example,
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if I gave you a list of 10 things that I needed
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from you today, I would know I've already set
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you up to fail because the short -term memory
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can only remember. you know, seven plus or minus
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two things before it gets converted into your
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long -term memory. And that's just one silly
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example of something that, you know, still in
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my brain from those days. But it really was a
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great balance to all the training education I
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was getting in the accounting program. And I
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think it served me pretty well. No, that's amazing.
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And I love this direction that we're going because
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I'm a big proponent of better. communication
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in the accounting space. You know, obviously
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I talk about it from the standpoint as a sort
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of consultant from a firm side where we're talking
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to a lot of different clients. And I generally
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think accountants are just terrible communicators.
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And I'll even put it even broader. I think most
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educated professionals are terrible communicators
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because they forget that the general public do
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not have the training that we have. And the words
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we use are not normal words. They're words that
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we have developed through our training and bad
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habits. So what are your thoughts about that?
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You know, that's a good starting point. Like,
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hey, know what your brain thinks, how that brain
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thinks. How do you think about communication
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as somebody in the accounting team? You know,
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you're working directly with ops people, business
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owners. general managers, restaurant managers.
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How do you think about communication and making
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sure that you're getting your message across
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clearly? Because this is a struggle that I think
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most professionals have. Yeah. I mean, what you
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are bringing up really resonates. And, um, in
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the different environments that I've been in,
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one of the things I'm very vocal about and always
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make time for is education. And oftentimes what
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I find accountants get roped into is there's
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a certain topic, it's quite complex or involved,
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and then you have to hit the ground immediately
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with someone outside of your area to work through
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it. And that's hard. It's hard because the topic
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is hard, but it's hard because you're thrown
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into the mix and with people outside of your
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area that have different backgrounds and different
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levels of expertise. And so what I found as time
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well spent is making time for training and education
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to get everyone on the same page in terms of
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their baseline understanding of some of the financial
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principles that we use. We don't need everyone
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to be a CFO. We don't need everyone to dream
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about debits and credits. That's not the goal.
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But let's spend time getting to a certain level
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of baseline understanding so that we can communicate
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with each other. And the days that I've spent
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on that initiative are some of my most memorable
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days and some of the days I've had the most fun.
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And you end up making the most impact because
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after those sessions, after that trust is established
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with those people, after they learn from you,
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and then I use that as a way to learn from them
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because I want to know more about their area,
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that creates momentum. And with that momentum,
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you can have much different types of conversations
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and work through different challenges in a more
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productive way. I mean, I feel like that's not
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just a great communication tip. That's a tip
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for global peace. If we all just pay attention
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and learn a little bit more about each other
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and understand where we're coming from, it makes
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things a lot easier. We have better conversations.
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We have more productive conversations. And I
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love the point about learning about their area.
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I think that is one area that a lot of professionals
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fall short is that they don't take the time to
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understand. You know the business that they're
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in or what the people that they're dealing with
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actually do on a day -to -day basis Meaning that
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we don't know the pressures that they have and
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we just think that everything revolves around
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our little world of you know Reconciling the
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balance sheet, which is obviously not true. Mm
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-hmm Very sure. Yeah, I mean we have a month
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-end calendar and sometimes some of the inputs
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into closing the month are impacted by other
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business issues and whether we get pieces of
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information on time or not, it's not the end
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of the world because there's other things going
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on. Maybe a boat broke down, maybe a customer
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needed additional help where we had to refocus
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our time. There's a million different things
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that can come up. And so one of the things that
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myself, my team, and the other departments that
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we work with is just being mindful of everyone's
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responsibilities. That's good advice. What advice
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would you give people for communicating? Cause
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you've got a consulting background and a lot
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of times with, they have to talk to business
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owners. What piece of advice would you give everybody
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to be better at communicating with those business
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owners? Yeah. What's been so interesting to think
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about my consulting experiences is oftentimes
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the conversation starts on one topic, but it
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evolves into a very different topic as that conversation
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progresses to build on that. I've found that
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business owners are so passionate, they're so
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invested, they're so focused on achieving whatever
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it is they're out there to achieve. But it's
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also very lonely. Even if you have a large team,
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you can feel very lonely at the top and everything
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kind of comes back to you. And through my consulting
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experiences, I did a lot of listening at first
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and got people talking and asked, you know, probing
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questions to get people to talk and really share
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what they really want to find out. what they
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was really getting at them, what's really important
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to them. Again, because those conversations start
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one way, but they end up evolving into something
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else. So I think for me, the advice that I would
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give is listen a lot, ask a lot of questions
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and drill down on those initial answers because
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normally there's a lot underneath it that is
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worth getting to. Yeah, I love that. I find that
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to be true as well in my experience. When they're
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asking about one thing, it probably means there's
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that's just the tip of the iceberg and there's
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a ton more that they actually want to know underneath
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it. So asking those probing questions, you know,
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listening to, you know, you're not to answer
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can make a big difference. The other thing that
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I think about is you're trying to remind myself
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about is these folks are these business owners
00:12:26.860 --> 00:12:28.860
are very talented. They're very good at what
00:12:28.860 --> 00:12:31.379
they do. And that is definitely not something
00:12:31.379 --> 00:12:33.740
to discount. You should appreciate that and keep
00:12:33.740 --> 00:12:36.669
that in mind. Oftentimes. They just need a push.
00:12:36.909 --> 00:12:39.649
They need an independent outside perspective
00:12:39.649 --> 00:12:41.509
to say, you're thinking about it the right way,
00:12:41.669 --> 00:12:44.629
or have you considered this instead? And that
00:12:44.629 --> 00:12:47.269
push, that confirmation, that safe space for
00:12:47.269 --> 00:12:52.669
them to talk through their ideas and get an independent
00:12:52.669 --> 00:12:54.789
perspective to weigh in on them is incredibly
00:12:54.789 --> 00:12:57.909
valuable. And so listening really helps bring
00:12:57.909 --> 00:13:01.750
that alive. Yeah, that's fantastic. So Mike,
00:13:01.789 --> 00:13:03.850
you didn't start your career at an oyster company.
00:13:04.049 --> 00:13:05.870
So you've tell us a little bit about your, your,
00:13:05.870 --> 00:13:08.009
your early career and how, how it got started
00:13:08.009 --> 00:13:10.529
in the world of accounting and finance. Yeah.
00:13:10.649 --> 00:13:12.669
Well, coming out of college, most of my friends
00:13:12.669 --> 00:13:14.610
who were in the accounting major ended up going
00:13:14.610 --> 00:13:16.370
the public accounting route. And there was so
00:13:16.370 --> 00:13:19.370
much value in that to get in there, roll up your
00:13:19.370 --> 00:13:23.230
sleeves, work really hard, learn so much and
00:13:23.230 --> 00:13:25.370
use that as a foundation for what they wanted
00:13:25.370 --> 00:13:28.509
to do next. And I was lucky in that I started
00:13:28.509 --> 00:13:32.240
my career. industry, the Campbell Soup Company
00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:34.799
had this financial leadership program kind of
00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:37.379
modeled after a GE financial leadership program,
00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:40.320
which they were known. known for, and they would
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:43.299
bring in different classes of graduating folks
00:13:43.299 --> 00:13:45.240
and put them in different areas of their business.
00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:48.080
So a lot of those folks would go into internal
00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:51.279
audit. Some would go to corporate FP &A, some
00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:54.679
would go into manufacturing or production accounting.
00:13:55.139 --> 00:13:57.399
And they have these different areas that people
00:13:57.399 --> 00:14:00.159
would get exposure to. If they did a good job,
00:14:00.179 --> 00:14:02.620
you get to rotate through other areas and you
00:14:02.620 --> 00:14:06.000
get exposure to senior management and kind of...
00:14:06.029 --> 00:14:08.490
an accelerated developmental path. And that's
00:14:08.490 --> 00:14:10.370
what I did with Campbell's Soup Company. I got
00:14:10.370 --> 00:14:13.009
to start with a pepper farm, which was fantastic,
00:14:13.190 --> 00:14:15.509
almost as good as oysters. And I did corporate
00:14:15.509 --> 00:14:18.840
FP &A and as a new person out of school and Going
00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:21.100
back to what I'm originally interested in, FP
00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:22.879
&A is a great place to see how all the pieces
00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:25.120
come together. I didn't really understand how
00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:27.539
it all worked or how these different departments
00:14:27.539 --> 00:14:30.460
ran, but I got to see the whole picture really
00:14:30.460 --> 00:14:32.700
quickly. And it was a great way to build my foundational
00:14:32.700 --> 00:14:34.960
knowledge and then eventually learn about other
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:38.580
areas of the business. But after a while, I was
00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:41.019
interested in the internet. The late 90s, early
00:14:41.019 --> 00:14:43.500
2000s was exciting. So I did an internet startup,
00:14:43.779 --> 00:14:46.759
which was, which was fine. It didn't last very
00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:49.399
long, but it gave me a sense of small teams and
00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:51.220
everyone working hard towards the same goal.
00:14:51.549 --> 00:14:54.629
And then I found my way to Diageo. At that time,
00:14:54.710 --> 00:14:56.509
it was called Guinness United Distillers and
00:14:56.509 --> 00:14:59.470
Vintners. And they were in the process of just
00:14:59.470 --> 00:15:01.850
purchasing half of the Joseph E. Seagram company.
00:15:01.909 --> 00:15:04.149
And that was a major transaction in the beverage
00:15:04.149 --> 00:15:07.070
alcohol world to have these two large companies
00:15:07.070 --> 00:15:10.679
come together to form Diageo. to become the largest
00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:13.139
alcohol company and then basically rewrite the
00:15:13.139 --> 00:15:15.340
rules for how alcohol distribution would work.
00:15:15.500 --> 00:15:18.179
They were the first to have dedicated distributor
00:15:18.179 --> 00:15:20.740
relationships and all the management that comes
00:15:20.740 --> 00:15:25.860
with that. younger person in supply finance,
00:15:26.059 --> 00:15:29.019
we had the task of taking two North American
00:15:29.019 --> 00:15:31.440
manufacturing footprints that were on top of
00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:34.480
each other and kind of optimizing those for what
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:37.120
the new Diageo would look like. So it was a great
00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:38.919
amount of work and a great, you know, once in
00:15:38.919 --> 00:15:41.429
a lifetime experience to understand. different
00:15:41.429 --> 00:15:43.750
decisions that we had to make relative to what
00:15:43.750 --> 00:15:45.730
products should be made and what facilities.
00:15:45.990 --> 00:15:47.889
Where do we need different warehouses? What's
00:15:47.889 --> 00:15:49.950
our purchasing and warehousing footprint going
00:15:49.950 --> 00:15:52.970
to look like? Those decisions and that work was
00:15:52.970 --> 00:15:56.830
what our team contributed to. We also were part
00:15:56.830 --> 00:16:00.149
of launching a new category, Smirnoff Ice flavored
00:16:00.149 --> 00:16:04.090
malt beverages. That initial launch was wildly
00:16:04.090 --> 00:16:06.669
successful and there was a lot of work to do
00:16:06.669 --> 00:16:10.210
to build out the production capacity to meet
00:16:10.210 --> 00:16:12.889
the future demand. So initially it was started
00:16:12.889 --> 00:16:17.730
with co -packing relationships, temporary stop
00:16:17.730 --> 00:16:20.480
gaps to just get. the production flowing. And
00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:22.500
then we started investing in our own facilities
00:16:22.500 --> 00:16:24.840
to build out production facilities, increase
00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:27.659
our capability and produce a lot more of that
00:16:27.659 --> 00:16:30.759
product. From Diageo, I was able to work in a
00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:33.720
few other departments to learn how Diageo works.
00:16:33.940 --> 00:16:36.820
But at one point I was able to work in our internal
00:16:36.820 --> 00:16:38.659
consulting group. We called it Global Business
00:16:38.659 --> 00:16:40.799
Support and we were doing high level projects
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:44.019
for North America and sometimes on a global basis.
00:16:44.139 --> 00:16:46.320
And through those projects, we learned about
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:48.759
stakeholder management, project management, management,
00:16:48.940 --> 00:16:51.820
consulting practices so that we could bring these
00:16:51.820 --> 00:16:54.220
projects to life and achieve what needed to be
00:16:54.220 --> 00:16:57.620
done. But one of those projects found me in California.
00:16:57.620 --> 00:17:00.440
At the time in the mid 2000s, Diageo was trying
00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:02.659
to grow their wine business and they had decided
00:17:02.659 --> 00:17:05.099
to purchase the Shalom Wine Group. And I got
00:17:05.099 --> 00:17:07.460
sent out to California to help with that. Not
00:17:07.460 --> 00:17:09.660
because I knew much about wine. I asked, what
00:17:09.660 --> 00:17:11.460
do you want me to do? They're like, let's do
00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:14.779
wine pricing for all the Shalom. products, we're
00:17:14.779 --> 00:17:17.440
going to put them on Diageo's distribution network."
00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:19.039
I go, I don't know anything about pricing. They
00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:22.500
said, you'll be fine. So I spent three or four
00:17:22.500 --> 00:17:24.640
months in California, understanding the Shalom
00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:26.579
business, understanding how they were pricing
00:17:26.579 --> 00:17:28.779
their products and getting that in a format ready
00:17:28.779 --> 00:17:31.460
for the Diageo distribution network, the day
00:17:31.460 --> 00:17:33.619
the transaction closed. And after that part of
00:17:33.619 --> 00:17:35.839
the project was over, I had built relationships
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:38.240
with everyone in the Napa office. They had some
00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:40.619
openings in their commercial finance team. And
00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:42.200
I said, Hey, I'd love to stay. And they said
00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:44.599
we'd... Love to have you come out to California.
00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:48.299
And that was my first start to the wine industry.
00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:51.160
And that was a great experience because we worked
00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:53.900
with some really talented people. I worked very
00:17:53.900 --> 00:17:55.859
closely as a business partner to these various
00:17:55.859 --> 00:17:58.440
sales team, and it was a great learning process
00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:01.220
for me. But corporate wine is one aspect of the
00:18:01.220 --> 00:18:03.119
wine industry. It's not the only aspect. And
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:05.589
I'm happy that... Years down the road, I was
00:18:05.589 --> 00:18:08.630
able to find my way to smaller medium size or
00:18:08.630 --> 00:18:11.190
small family owned and operated wineries where
00:18:11.190 --> 00:18:13.170
it's a much different game. It's all about the
00:18:13.170 --> 00:18:16.230
relationships, people's words and people's values.
00:18:16.349 --> 00:18:18.890
And it's a small but mighty operation where everyone
00:18:18.890 --> 00:18:21.210
does everything, no matter any do, whatever it
00:18:21.210 --> 00:18:23.650
takes. So having a chance to see the corporate
00:18:23.650 --> 00:18:26.150
side and the small family owned and operated
00:18:26.150 --> 00:18:28.960
side has really been eyeopening. but it's been
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:32.019
a great addition to my experiences. So on your,
00:18:32.019 --> 00:18:34.059
uh, Diageo experience and you mentioned Smurtify,
00:18:34.180 --> 00:18:36.380
just for a little nostalgia in this episode,
00:18:36.500 --> 00:18:38.359
that one, that product came out when I was in
00:18:38.359 --> 00:18:41.059
college and did really well back in South Africa.
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:43.460
Thanks for your support. Yeah, I supported it
00:18:43.460 --> 00:18:46.460
very well at times. So, uh, you know, great product
00:18:46.460 --> 00:18:48.640
at the time. I'm surprised that it didn't quite
00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:50.900
keep its traction that you'd think. It might
00:18:50.900 --> 00:18:52.819
sort of see a type of resurgence in the current
00:18:52.819 --> 00:18:54.619
type of market we're experiencing, but that's
00:18:54.619 --> 00:18:56.619
just my little personal antidote that we're going
00:18:56.619 --> 00:18:58.599
to throw into your story and then we can keep
00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:01.900
moving. Well, what's interesting, one of the
00:19:01.900 --> 00:19:05.339
big lessons from Smirnoff Vice is just, and this
00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:07.680
isn't for life, this is for business, anything.
00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:10.519
Just because you have initial success doesn't
00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:13.519
mean success is guaranteed in the future. And
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:16.779
after the... The success of Smirnoff Ice, the
00:19:16.779 --> 00:19:19.220
second product in the lineup was a no -brainer,
00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:21.500
Captain Morgan Gold. Captain Morgan was a big
00:19:21.500 --> 00:19:24.619
part of Diageo. Captain Coke is well known. Let's
00:19:24.619 --> 00:19:26.640
make a flavored malt beverage out of Captain...
00:19:26.910 --> 00:19:29.269
for the Captain Morgan brand. That was the idea.
00:19:29.349 --> 00:19:32.210
The projections were sky high. Production capacity
00:19:32.210 --> 00:19:34.549
needed to be at a next level. But they skipped
00:19:34.549 --> 00:19:36.690
a lot of steps. They didn't do the consumer testing.
00:19:36.849 --> 00:19:39.450
They didn't go through the gate process that
00:19:39.450 --> 00:19:41.789
they had previously prided themselves on because
00:19:41.789 --> 00:19:44.329
they wanted to fast track this product marketplace.
00:19:44.670 --> 00:19:47.730
And what ended up happening? They made hundreds
00:19:47.730 --> 00:19:50.049
of thousands of cases and no one wanted to drink
00:19:50.049 --> 00:19:53.990
it. It didn't taste good at all. And as a result
00:19:53.990 --> 00:19:56.380
of that, a lot of people were fired. And a lot
00:19:56.380 --> 00:19:59.819
of people like me had to manage the write -off
00:19:59.819 --> 00:20:03.799
reserve of lots of millions of dollars and count
00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:05.920
many cases of Captain Morgan Gold, which had
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:08.859
to be destroyed and managed in a proper way.
00:20:09.220 --> 00:20:12.500
So it was a big lesson to be excited about your
00:20:12.500 --> 00:20:15.880
successes, but don't forget that doing it the
00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:18.609
right way matters. I can say we supported that
00:20:18.609 --> 00:20:20.670
product as well, but only because we got it on
00:20:20.670 --> 00:20:23.410
significant discounts in the liquor stores. So
00:20:23.410 --> 00:20:25.609
obviously you got to Napa, started working in
00:20:25.609 --> 00:20:28.049
the wine space and had a little bit more experience
00:20:28.049 --> 00:20:30.769
in that area. Yeah. Having the chance to work
00:20:30.769 --> 00:20:33.349
for some of the smaller family owned and operated
00:20:33.349 --> 00:20:36.849
wineries where everyone does everything was exciting,
00:20:36.849 --> 00:20:40.009
but also really hard because they're small teams.
00:20:40.619 --> 00:20:42.740
There are different stages of growth. They have
00:20:42.740 --> 00:20:45.099
a different business challenges or opportunities
00:20:45.099 --> 00:20:47.859
in understanding how you spend your time can
00:20:47.859 --> 00:20:49.859
vary by the minute, depending on what's going
00:20:49.859 --> 00:20:53.940
on. It's been fun to see, you know. well -established
00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:56.500
legacy wine brands in the Valley continue to
00:20:56.500 --> 00:20:58.400
do well, because they're doing something right
00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:01.599
in that consistency, those values that knowing
00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:04.299
who they are and operating in that lane says
00:21:04.299 --> 00:21:07.099
something over the decades. And at the same time,
00:21:07.099 --> 00:21:09.480
being part of some of the new upstart wine brands
00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:12.119
and going from one phase of business to the next,
00:21:12.220 --> 00:21:14.140
reaching those different levels, plateauing and
00:21:14.140 --> 00:21:16.400
then reaching another level is an exciting thing
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:19.539
to work through as you get from one area to another.
00:21:19.779 --> 00:21:22.019
But at the end of the day, you know, cash matters.
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:26.000
and education matters and helping the team understand
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:29.779
the cash run rates and where cash is going to
00:21:29.779 --> 00:21:31.799
be used was part of the most important work we
00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:33.759
did. That's great. Talk to me about your sort
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:35.859
of consulting career. So you spend a lot of time
00:21:35.859 --> 00:21:40.039
in industry and at some point decided to go do
00:21:40.039 --> 00:21:43.319
it for a broader portfolio of clients and go
00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:45.099
out on your own and start the consulting side.
00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:48.259
Tell me about that decision. Yeah, I mean, during
00:21:48.259 --> 00:21:51.619
the pandemic in COVID, that was a tough time.
00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:53.940
You know, wineries were shutting down, visitors
00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:56.880
were not coming to the valley. I had a lot more
00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.859
time on my hands. I had a new baby daughter at
00:21:59.859 --> 00:22:02.559
home. My wife was launching a new business of
00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:05.619
her own. So it was a really crazy, challenging
00:22:05.619 --> 00:22:09.240
time. And as we got through that and as we saw
00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:13.099
the lights coming back on and the day was turning
00:22:13.099 --> 00:22:16.460
into a new day. my wife and I started talking
00:22:16.460 --> 00:22:18.599
about, you know, what makes the most sense for
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.279
me? What's next? And we talked about, you know,
00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:24.039
going back and doing similar roles and dealing
00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:26.099
with challenges that I would be familiar with
00:22:26.099 --> 00:22:28.900
and that I felt confident about. But we also
00:22:28.900 --> 00:22:31.900
talked about consulting and she has a very large
00:22:31.900 --> 00:22:34.740
network. I have a very respectable network in
00:22:34.740 --> 00:22:37.940
my book, in my contacts, and we thought... Well,
00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:39.839
one of the things I like doing is kind of diving
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:42.619
in, looking under the hood, asking questions
00:22:42.619 --> 00:22:44.799
and trying to tackle an issue or help someone
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:49.019
with an issue. consulting. And that was a scary
00:22:49.019 --> 00:22:51.380
decision. It wasn't something that felt easy
00:22:51.380 --> 00:22:54.619
to make. It wasn't something that was very clear
00:22:54.619 --> 00:22:57.220
once you decide that's what you want to do. But
00:22:57.220 --> 00:22:59.759
through our conversations, that's the path that
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:01.799
I ended up choosing. And for about two years,
00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:04.440
I did that on my own. I worked on business development.
00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:07.539
I built relationships. I had, had engagements,
00:23:07.619 --> 00:23:10.059
you know, and I learned during that time, they
00:23:10.059 --> 00:23:12.180
all didn't go smoothly or perfectly. Some we
00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:14.480
hit out of the park. Some I learned things from
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:16.880
that I took to the next engagement. But it was
00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:18.680
something that I was excited about because it
00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:21.819
was happening. And shortly after that phase,
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:26.079
I met some people who were part of a CFO advisory
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:30.559
group. And what I learned is that group was made
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:32.880
up of a lot of people like me. They all have
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:35.119
their different areas of expertise, their different
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:38.400
backgrounds or life experiences. And they're
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:42.079
all independent contractors who kind of chart
00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:44.680
their own course. But as a group, we can help
00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:46.359
each other out. We can learn from each other.
00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:49.079
We can support each other. There's some back
00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:52.559
office functions that can be covered so we could
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:55.180
spend more time doing business development and
00:23:55.180 --> 00:23:57.859
working with our clients. And the more I learned
00:23:57.859 --> 00:23:59.900
about that model and the more I got to know some
00:23:59.900 --> 00:24:01.920
of the partners and how it worked, the more interesting
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:03.980
it became because it offered the best of both
00:24:03.980 --> 00:24:06.599
worlds for me. It offered an opportunity to distill.
00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:09.759
chart my own course, work as much or as little
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:12.140
as I wanted to, but you could work alongside
00:24:12.140 --> 00:24:14.660
some pretty smart people and we could all help
00:24:14.660 --> 00:24:17.440
each other out. So we did that for a while as
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:20.000
well. Until you obviously took on the job at
00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:23.700
Og Island and we've come full circle, but I'd
00:24:23.700 --> 00:24:25.279
like to sort of hear a little bit more about
00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:27.519
your consulting time. Like how was that experience?
00:24:27.619 --> 00:24:30.759
You know, going from industry. You know big industry
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:33.440
for a lot of that career as well big companies
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:36.140
into the consulting world It's obviously a big
00:24:36.140 --> 00:24:37.740
change and you obviously talk about the difficulties
00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:39.940
and challenges business development is you know,
00:24:39.980 --> 00:24:42.460
one of them What are some of the things that
00:24:42.460 --> 00:24:44.079
you liked and maybe some of the things that you
00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:47.880
didn't like about consulting? Yeah with consulting
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:50.640
or advisory firms they can be set up many different
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:52.839
ways There's many different models around how
00:24:52.839 --> 00:24:54.819
they're designed and what people's rules and
00:24:54.819 --> 00:24:59.500
responsibilities are in our firm we had to do
00:24:59.500 --> 00:25:01.720
client work, but we also were responsible for
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:04.019
business development. So there was no sitting
00:25:04.019 --> 00:25:06.519
back in your chair waiting for an email to come
00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:08.740
through to say, can you work on this? You had
00:25:08.740 --> 00:25:10.980
to be out there and doing it. And for a lot of
00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:13.920
people in the CFO area, that's not where they
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:15.640
feel most comfortable. It's not something they've
00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:17.519
had to do. It's not something that they have
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:19.579
training on. It's not something that they feel
00:25:19.579 --> 00:25:22.980
confident in. So when looking at folks who are
00:25:22.980 --> 00:25:25.650
joining the partnership, you know, spending time
00:25:25.650 --> 00:25:28.150
on that area to understand people's level of
00:25:28.150 --> 00:25:30.630
comfort and their potential for success in that
00:25:30.630 --> 00:25:33.789
is a really important part of the decision -making
00:25:33.789 --> 00:25:37.730
process. And also I made mistakes right from
00:25:37.730 --> 00:25:39.849
the start. Some busy client engagements where
00:25:39.849 --> 00:25:42.009
I was working as much as they would have me to
00:25:42.009 --> 00:25:43.910
work on these different business issues, but
00:25:43.910 --> 00:25:46.029
I wasn't making time for the next round of business
00:25:46.029 --> 00:25:48.609
development that would be needed once that project
00:25:48.609 --> 00:25:51.410
wrapped up. And I was warned about that and I
00:25:51.410 --> 00:25:53.650
said, don't worry about it. I'm working on the
00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:56.400
project and the team is really helpful. And then
00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:58.519
when that project was over, I wasn't prepared
00:25:58.519 --> 00:26:00.859
with my future pipeline. So just finding that
00:26:00.859 --> 00:26:03.559
balancing act between allocating your time for
00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:06.339
BD activities and client work is something you
00:26:06.339 --> 00:26:08.140
have to learn about. And it's hard to get right
00:26:08.140 --> 00:26:09.980
sometimes. No, I mean, it's tough. It's something
00:26:09.980 --> 00:26:12.799
I have to work on all the time. And I sometimes
00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:14.859
overcommit myself to BD and then I don't have
00:26:14.859 --> 00:26:17.119
time for work. So, you know, you can go the other
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:21.299
direction as well. You know, what sort of learnings
00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:23.900
did you get from that? I mean, cause it is. You
00:26:23.900 --> 00:26:26.079
know, there's some project management type, you
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:29.140
know, opportunity there, but what was your like
00:26:29.140 --> 00:26:31.680
own personal takeaway from, from, you know, those
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:35.200
struggles? Yeah, I think what I've found, you
00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:36.779
know, we're all different in terms of how we
00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:40.059
behave or how we operate or how we plan or manage
00:26:40.059 --> 00:26:42.240
through our time. And I found that I do what
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:44.859
I scheduled myself to do. If I don't have a schedule
00:26:44.859 --> 00:26:48.700
laid out where I'm making two hours for BD activities,
00:26:49.059 --> 00:26:52.329
it's easy to not do that and get. that time sucked
00:26:52.329 --> 00:26:55.109
up by another topic, whether it's client work
00:26:55.109 --> 00:26:58.049
or something else. And so really setting your
00:26:58.049 --> 00:27:00.289
week or setting your month in advance around
00:27:00.289 --> 00:27:02.569
where am I going to be spending time and what
00:27:02.569 --> 00:27:04.690
am I going to... going to make time for helped
00:27:04.690 --> 00:27:07.309
set the foundation for doing the right things
00:27:07.309 --> 00:27:09.109
at the right time. Just because I set the time
00:27:09.109 --> 00:27:11.710
doesn't mean all the BD activities eventually
00:27:11.710 --> 00:27:14.490
worked out where sometimes the flip side is it
00:27:14.490 --> 00:27:16.450
worked out too well. And now I'm kind of upside
00:27:16.450 --> 00:27:18.869
down in terms of the amount of business that's
00:27:18.869 --> 00:27:22.089
in hand versus the time I have to do it. So those
00:27:22.089 --> 00:27:23.950
are all learnings. Those are all things that
00:27:23.950 --> 00:27:26.029
make it challenging. You don't want to, you kind
00:27:26.029 --> 00:27:28.109
of want to find that middle. ground, that sweet
00:27:28.109 --> 00:27:30.049
spot, especially when you're first starting out,
00:27:30.089 --> 00:27:33.150
because I didn't want to take on too much over
00:27:33.150 --> 00:27:35.650
commit and then not deliver good work outputs
00:27:35.650 --> 00:27:37.750
for the people that I've already made commitments
00:27:37.750 --> 00:27:40.369
to. So I tried to be very conservative at first
00:27:40.369 --> 00:27:43.329
and over deliver and spend the right amount of
00:27:43.329 --> 00:27:45.589
time with clients before trying to take on too
00:27:45.589 --> 00:27:47.130
much more. Yeah, I love that. I love the idea
00:27:47.130 --> 00:27:50.990
of scheduling tasks, especially ones that maybe
00:27:50.990 --> 00:27:53.630
that we're not that comfortable with things that,
00:27:53.630 --> 00:27:56.279
you know, We know that we'll put off because
00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:58.380
it's our less favorable things to do within our
00:27:58.380 --> 00:28:01.380
calendar. And that can be things you're good
00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:04.019
at or not good at, right? If you just, you know,
00:28:04.420 --> 00:28:06.000
I don't feel like having another lunch with that
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:07.799
person. Like you're just going to put it off.
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:08.980
You're just going to kick it down. But if you
00:28:08.980 --> 00:28:10.880
put it in the calendar, it's a great way to do
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:12.960
it. And it's not just good advice for, you know,
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:15.599
business, good advice for life. You know, I schedule
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:17.220
in my calendar when I'm going to work out, I
00:28:17.220 --> 00:28:19.220
schedule on my calendar when I have kids events,
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:20.900
I schedule in my calendar when I'm going to coach,
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:23.460
when I have, you know, external meetings, it's
00:28:23.420 --> 00:28:25.519
putting that all in a calendar really makes a
00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:28.180
difference because one, it commits you to do
00:28:28.180 --> 00:28:29.960
it. And, you know, you can have some flexibility,
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:31.680
I put time in like, I'm going to work on this
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.180
project and then I get stuck with something else
00:28:34.180 --> 00:28:36.500
and I'll, I'll move it around a little bit, but
00:28:36.500 --> 00:28:39.059
at least gives you a good idea. And for me personally,
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:41.880
it creates this like a little bit of self commitment.
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:44.079
So I feel a bit guilty if I don't do something
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:46.420
that I suggested to myself, I should do, cause
00:28:46.420 --> 00:28:48.740
I know it's important. Um, so I think that's
00:28:48.740 --> 00:28:50.440
a, it's a good technique for a lot of people
00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:52.670
to just. Build a new calendar. If it's something
00:28:52.670 --> 00:28:54.750
you know you need to do, just put it in the calendar
00:28:54.750 --> 00:28:58.049
and make time for it and get it done. Yeah, I
00:28:58.049 --> 00:29:00.490
agree. That made me think of a phrase I think
00:29:00.490 --> 00:29:03.069
about often is the hardest person to negotiate
00:29:03.069 --> 00:29:05.869
with is yourself. When you decide to do something,
00:29:05.890 --> 00:29:07.930
but then don't put it on the calendar, you've
00:29:07.930 --> 00:29:10.230
already negotiated with yourself. And I'm really
00:29:10.230 --> 00:29:13.029
good at negotiating sometimes. And so that calendar,
00:29:13.230 --> 00:29:15.210
that tool, whatever it is, whatever works for
00:29:15.210 --> 00:29:18.630
you helps kind of. cut through that a little
00:29:18.630 --> 00:29:21.650
bit. The other thing consulting reminded me of,
00:29:21.690 --> 00:29:24.630
which I wish I had known earlier in my career,
00:29:24.710 --> 00:29:28.390
is how important building your contact list really
00:29:28.390 --> 00:29:30.289
is. When I was a young person, I was learning
00:29:30.289 --> 00:29:32.769
all sorts of technical skills and I was working
00:29:32.769 --> 00:29:35.349
on getting things done quickly and accurately
00:29:35.349 --> 00:29:38.910
and precisely. While I was doing that, I was
00:29:38.910 --> 00:29:43.470
probably surrounded by so many people who I interacted
00:29:43.470 --> 00:29:47.390
with, either casually or formally, but I didn't
00:29:47.079 --> 00:29:50.900
understand the value of that relationship at
00:29:50.900 --> 00:29:53.940
that point in time, whether it was a need for
00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:56.160
that day or a need for the future. And it wasn't
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:58.579
until later in my career and working with some
00:29:58.579 --> 00:30:02.359
of these business owners and seeing how important
00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:05.140
developing those long -term relationships and
00:30:05.140 --> 00:30:09.599
keeping track of those contacts had become. And
00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:13.059
the people who excelled at it. had limitless
00:30:13.059 --> 00:30:16.519
options for themselves as they experienced different
00:30:16.519 --> 00:30:19.440
needs, uh, going forward. And it's not just like
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:22.079
collect names and call Joe if you need such and
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:24.420
such. It's really about fostering those relationships
00:30:24.420 --> 00:30:26.980
and keeping them authentic and standing in contact.
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:31.000
Um, I understand that better today, but as a
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:34.049
younger person, I wish I had that. knowledge
00:30:34.049 --> 00:30:37.630
and that infrastructure to capture all that information
00:30:37.630 --> 00:30:41.109
and the skill set to develop and foster those
00:30:41.109 --> 00:30:42.970
relationships. I think I would be much better
00:30:42.970 --> 00:30:46.490
off. Yeah, I agree that that is one of the skills
00:30:46.490 --> 00:30:48.990
that they really should teach us in college that,
00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:51.049
you know, developing your network is really important.
00:30:51.650 --> 00:30:54.269
And, you know, I. have parents that never grew
00:30:54.269 --> 00:30:56.250
up in professional space. So, you know, that
00:30:56.250 --> 00:30:58.309
wasn't something they could foster with as well.
00:30:58.369 --> 00:31:00.450
So I think, you know, for people who maybe have
00:31:00.450 --> 00:31:01.970
parents that came from a professional background,
00:31:02.150 --> 00:31:04.069
you see it, you can mirror it, you can do it,
00:31:04.069 --> 00:31:06.970
but it is a skillset that a lot of people need
00:31:06.970 --> 00:31:09.029
to learn. And like you said, you don't need to
00:31:09.029 --> 00:31:11.490
know everybody, but I do recommend people say
00:31:11.490 --> 00:31:14.390
yes to more events, more conversations, because
00:31:14.390 --> 00:31:15.690
you never know who you're going to bump into
00:31:15.690 --> 00:31:18.589
and what you could learn. You know, there's various
00:31:18.589 --> 00:31:21.150
different methods out there. keep a top 10 list
00:31:21.150 --> 00:31:23.849
or a top, I know one guy I've met before, she
00:31:23.849 --> 00:31:26.730
speaks about his sweet 16 or, you know, a list
00:31:26.730 --> 00:31:30.609
of 25 people and, you know, schedule in the calendar.
00:31:30.730 --> 00:31:32.150
Like, let's get back to the calendar side of
00:31:32.150 --> 00:31:34.210
it, right? And put it in. I need to reach out
00:31:34.210 --> 00:31:36.910
to this person and it could be, let's set up
00:31:36.910 --> 00:31:38.930
a call. Let's have lunch. Let's grab coffee.
00:31:40.170 --> 00:31:42.309
Oh, I read this article I thought you'd be interested
00:31:42.309 --> 00:31:44.450
in. Oh, it's your birthday. Like, you know, all
00:31:44.450 --> 00:31:46.130
these different things, just to make sure that
00:31:46.130 --> 00:31:48.410
you're constantly letting them know that you're
00:31:48.410 --> 00:31:51.539
thinking about them. And I always make time for
00:31:51.539 --> 00:31:53.680
people that I realize are really smart, had great
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:55.960
careers, and maybe I was just in the corner and
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:57.859
nobody sort of notices them because those are
00:31:57.859 --> 00:32:00.140
the ones that when you have really good, deep
00:32:00.140 --> 00:32:03.000
conversations, you get to learn so much because
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:05.759
they've experienced so much in life. And I think
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:07.720
we just all need to be a little bit more open
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:10.460
and understand that it's who you know helps a
00:32:10.460 --> 00:32:12.319
lot, but also being able to learn from people
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:14.680
that have experienced things before you is such
00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:17.779
a big, you know, big opportunity. It's part of
00:32:17.779 --> 00:32:19.299
the reason I started Project Conversations that
00:32:19.299 --> 00:32:21.819
I get to speak to people like you, Mike, who
00:32:21.819 --> 00:32:23.759
have had great careers, have experienced a lot,
00:32:23.779 --> 00:32:26.220
and I get to learn a ton while listening to your
00:32:26.220 --> 00:32:30.299
story. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I agree. To build
00:32:30.299 --> 00:32:34.019
on that, I was in a conversation this week. People
00:32:34.019 --> 00:32:35.819
were talking about where they went to lunch and
00:32:35.819 --> 00:32:38.099
it was kind of, you know, walk in, order, wait
00:32:38.099 --> 00:32:41.539
for your order, walk out. And while this person
00:32:41.539 --> 00:32:43.180
was waiting for their order, there was another
00:32:43.180 --> 00:32:45.990
customer. who was having difficulty. Something
00:32:45.990 --> 00:32:49.150
happened. There was an issue. They were concerned
00:32:49.150 --> 00:32:53.710
and it turned out to be not an easy transaction.
00:32:54.470 --> 00:32:57.289
And the way the person who worked at the restaurant
00:32:57.289 --> 00:33:00.289
handled it was remarkable. They did everything
00:33:00.289 --> 00:33:03.670
correctly. They made the customer feel great.
00:33:04.250 --> 00:33:07.710
They made all the decisions that made the situation
00:33:07.710 --> 00:33:11.180
go in from bad. And the person I am referring
00:33:11.180 --> 00:33:14.740
to just observed all that and they really complimented
00:33:14.740 --> 00:33:17.119
the employee about how they handled that situation
00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:19.220
and how it was tough to navigate, but it looked
00:33:19.220 --> 00:33:21.420
like it got a great outcome. And that's a mental
00:33:21.420 --> 00:33:24.220
note. I mean, now we know that's someone we would
00:33:24.220 --> 00:33:26.279
love to have on our team, right? Like, you know,
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:28.759
not every customer interaction is easy. Some
00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:30.799
can be challenging and how you work through those
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:33.390
challenging conversations is a... beautiful skill
00:33:33.390 --> 00:33:35.509
and, and that person just displayed it in real
00:33:35.509 --> 00:33:38.549
life and wasn't, you know, performing for anyone.
00:33:38.549 --> 00:33:40.250
They were just doing what they thought was best.
00:33:40.569 --> 00:33:43.789
And so just being open and observant in those
00:33:43.789 --> 00:33:46.750
everyday situations can really help set the foundation
00:33:46.750 --> 00:33:48.930
for the future. Yeah, that's a great story and
00:33:48.930 --> 00:33:51.349
advice for people as well, especially maybe those
00:33:51.349 --> 00:33:53.109
that are just starting their career, like try
00:33:53.109 --> 00:33:54.930
to put your best foot forward always. You never
00:33:54.930 --> 00:33:57.309
know who's watching, right? And what opportunities
00:33:57.309 --> 00:33:59.450
could come your way just with, with a simple
00:33:59.450 --> 00:34:03.660
interaction. For sure. So tell me, how has it
00:34:03.660 --> 00:34:06.180
been moving back into industry? How's that adjustment
00:34:06.180 --> 00:34:12.000
coming along? Well, it's fun to come into an
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:14.280
environment where you're familiar with it. You
00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:16.519
know, having consulting. consulted with them
00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:19.219
for about a year. They knew me and I got to know
00:34:19.219 --> 00:34:21.760
them. So that felt very comforting, kind of like
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:23.920
dating before you get serious in a relationship.
00:34:24.039 --> 00:34:27.260
And that works well for both parties. But also
00:34:27.260 --> 00:34:30.519
with that type of change, there's more responsibility
00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:34.199
and more things to be involved with. And so while
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:37.099
there's similarities between wine and oysters,
00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:40.369
in terms you have farms, You have mother nature
00:34:40.369 --> 00:34:43.489
that impacts your business. You have different
00:34:43.489 --> 00:34:45.949
growth cycles. You have different production
00:34:45.949 --> 00:34:49.150
facilities and you have multi -channel sales
00:34:49.150 --> 00:34:52.449
opportunities. So a lot of parallels to the wine
00:34:52.449 --> 00:34:55.550
industry. Thankfully, there's no three tier distribution
00:34:55.550 --> 00:34:58.909
system for oyster or there is, but that's not
00:34:58.909 --> 00:35:01.429
as much. Nothing like the wine space where it's
00:35:01.429 --> 00:35:05.500
broken. Yeah, you can pick that up. But there's
00:35:05.500 --> 00:35:08.059
a lot to learn too, reigniting those muscles
00:35:08.059 --> 00:35:11.039
in your brain to understand how does aquaculture
00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:13.360
work? What does marine life work through? What's
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:15.880
the different biology that impacts how these
00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:18.820
animals grow from seeds to what you enjoy on
00:35:18.820 --> 00:35:20.739
your plate? What are our sourcing strategies?
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:24.139
What are our values such that we purchase the
00:35:24.139 --> 00:35:26.420
right type of seafood from the right type of
00:35:26.420 --> 00:35:28.920
growers? And with a company like... Hog Island
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:31.519
who has certain value standards, they just don't
00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:33.980
purchase from everyone. They purchase from sustainable
00:35:33.980 --> 00:35:36.559
regenerative farmers. They just don't sell their
00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:38.920
oysters to anyone. They sell their oysters to
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:41.139
people who share their values and treat them
00:35:41.139 --> 00:35:43.800
a certain way. We have an internal science department.
00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:46.960
So we have people with PhDs who are really smart
00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:49.300
and all they do, not all they do, one of the
00:35:49.300 --> 00:35:51.780
things that they do is to study what goes on.
00:35:51.980 --> 00:35:54.619
in the life cycle of an oyster and how different
00:35:54.619 --> 00:35:57.119
conditions impact it. That knowledge and that
00:35:57.119 --> 00:35:59.440
learning not only helps Hog Island, but they
00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:01.739
use it to help elevate the entire industry and
00:36:01.739 --> 00:36:04.340
help other oyster farmers and people in similar
00:36:04.340 --> 00:36:06.820
situations get one leg up. And so it's really
00:36:06.820 --> 00:36:10.650
fun to be part of a company that has those people
00:36:10.650 --> 00:36:13.849
as part of a team, chooses to spend money and
00:36:13.849 --> 00:36:16.210
invest time on those types of activities, and
00:36:16.210 --> 00:36:18.889
then tries to lift the bar for not just what
00:36:18.889 --> 00:36:20.650
they're doing, but those around them. That's
00:36:20.650 --> 00:36:23.650
incredible. That's sort of insight that I wasn't
00:36:23.650 --> 00:36:25.849
aware of. I mean, I know when you go to the website,
00:36:25.929 --> 00:36:27.570
there's a lot about sustainability, but I didn't
00:36:27.570 --> 00:36:29.570
realize how deep it goes and what sort of impact
00:36:29.570 --> 00:36:32.510
they're making on... the broader oyster community
00:36:32.510 --> 00:36:34.510
as it would be, you know, just popped onto the
00:36:34.510 --> 00:36:36.250
website, just to have a look. And then, you know,
00:36:36.309 --> 00:36:38.230
it starts right there, 40 years of great oysters,
00:36:38.690 --> 00:36:41.510
sustainably grown. And, you know, in terms of
00:36:41.510 --> 00:36:42.969
marketing, that's a great point, right? Like
00:36:42.969 --> 00:36:46.170
that just is who they are. How is it sort of,
00:36:46.449 --> 00:36:48.289
I don't think everybody gets the opportunity
00:36:48.289 --> 00:36:50.670
to work for businesses that are value driven.
00:36:51.230 --> 00:36:54.329
And it is a great opportunity and clearly it
00:36:54.329 --> 00:36:56.210
resonates with you, but what is that experience
00:36:56.210 --> 00:36:59.519
like working for a value driven business? Yeah,
00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:02.460
I mean, what this implies, unlike other environments
00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:04.619
is it's not all dollars and cents all the time.
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:07.179
You know, those matter. Don't get me wrong. That's
00:37:07.179 --> 00:37:09.780
an important part of the calculus, but there's
00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:12.480
other aspects too. You know, what's the ownership
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:14.559
structure like of these different environments?
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:16.980
What are their practices? What do they value?
00:37:17.179 --> 00:37:19.679
Will they care, you know, as the chain of custody
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:21.880
of an oyster goes from one step to another, will
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:24.239
they care about it the same way we do? Will our
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:27.829
product shine as well as we should? highlighted
00:37:27.829 --> 00:37:30.889
in our different restaurants. So those are all
00:37:30.889 --> 00:37:34.969
factors that go into who we sell to. And as being
00:37:34.969 --> 00:37:37.690
around for 40 years, they don't want to grow
00:37:37.690 --> 00:37:41.409
50 % year over year. They want slow, sustainable,
00:37:41.409 --> 00:37:44.050
tangible growth. And that's exactly what they've
00:37:44.050 --> 00:37:48.280
been able to achieve. Use those values to make
00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:50.079
decisions about restaurants that they're going
00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:52.219
to sort of purchase and bring into the family
00:37:52.219 --> 00:37:55.619
as it would be. Yeah. You know, being a fresh
00:37:55.619 --> 00:37:58.719
product, geography is important. So you want
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:00.940
to be mindful of where the oysters are coming
00:38:00.940 --> 00:38:03.579
from and where they want to go and making sure
00:38:03.579 --> 00:38:06.960
it's part of an ecosystem that makes sense so
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:09.820
that the oysters show off their best self. Hog
00:38:09.820 --> 00:38:11.760
Island was one of the original tenants in the
00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:14.019
San Francisco Ferry Building. So back when that
00:38:14.019 --> 00:38:17.800
was just an idea. In an unproven area of commerce,
00:38:18.260 --> 00:38:20.460
Hog Island was one of the first to join. And
00:38:20.460 --> 00:38:23.119
fast forward many years, we continued to love
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:26.199
that space and love seeing as many people come
00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:28.760
through those doors as possible. It was really
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:31.579
exciting having the Super Bowl in town. Our team
00:38:31.579 --> 00:38:34.199
did an amazing job with all the pre and post
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:37.840
Super Bowl activities. And, you know, hopefully
00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:40.079
people got to experience Hog Island if they were
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:43.820
in town for a visit to see the game. I actually,
00:38:43.820 --> 00:38:45.920
I told my wife, she's going to go see a friend
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:48.280
in the city this evening. And I said, Hey, you
00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:49.599
guys only have a little bit of time. You're obviously
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:51.840
can get a ride at the ferry hog islands right
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:54.019
there. You should make it a choice. So I may
00:38:54.019 --> 00:38:56.380
be off to this call. I'll, I'll, I'll push her
00:38:56.380 --> 00:38:58.500
into that optional, but I've heard great things
00:38:58.500 --> 00:39:00.440
about Tony seafood. And I'm trying to figure
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:02.719
out a truck there. Like that's just, I mean,
00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:04.360
just the views and everything else that goes
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:06.320
with it, other than just the great product. That
00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:09.099
is my next location on my list to go check out.
00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:12.099
Yeah, every time I go to Tony's, like my shoulders
00:39:12.099 --> 00:39:15.860
rest a little bit. I take a deep breath. I just
00:39:15.860 --> 00:39:18.880
take in the view and I'm like, okay, this is
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:21.559
where I want to be. My body just feels a little
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:23.800
bit different when I walk through the door. What's
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:27.329
cool about Tony's in addition to the... the menu
00:39:27.329 --> 00:39:30.389
and the views is they do quite a few events there
00:39:30.389 --> 00:39:32.650
too. So we'll bring in some outside chefs. We'll
00:39:32.650 --> 00:39:35.110
kind of highlight what they're about and we'll
00:39:35.110 --> 00:39:37.690
put some special evenings together a little outside
00:39:37.690 --> 00:39:41.329
the norm to make it exciting. So there's always
00:39:41.329 --> 00:39:44.409
new things going on at Tony's. Yeah, I love it.
00:39:45.509 --> 00:39:48.250
Is there any advice you can give anybody or maybe
00:39:48.250 --> 00:39:50.369
insight that you can provide that's one thing
00:39:50.369 --> 00:39:52.090
that you've taken away from your consulting as
00:39:52.090 --> 00:39:53.989
you've gone back into industry and you're inside
00:39:53.989 --> 00:39:56.550
the business that you're using that maybe it's
00:39:56.550 --> 00:39:58.670
a skill that you didn't have before your consulting
00:39:58.670 --> 00:40:01.389
career? Yeah, one of the things that I learned
00:40:01.389 --> 00:40:04.429
as a consultant is You have to make your own
00:40:04.429 --> 00:40:06.590
future. You're doing business development activities.
00:40:06.849 --> 00:40:08.909
You're always trying to do client work. You can
00:40:08.909 --> 00:40:11.949
go 24 -7 and never feel like it's enough, or
00:40:11.949 --> 00:40:14.289
you don't know if you should work really hard
00:40:14.289 --> 00:40:16.690
for a long time because it might be less busy
00:40:16.690 --> 00:40:19.489
down the road. So that's a very stressful, difficult
00:40:19.489 --> 00:40:23.630
time to navigate through if the future is not
00:40:23.630 --> 00:40:27.329
clear. And likewise, an industry is part of a
00:40:27.329 --> 00:40:29.210
team. There can be some really busy times of
00:40:29.210 --> 00:40:31.230
year. There can be some more relaxing time of
00:40:31.230 --> 00:40:34.510
year. But one of the things I wish I had been
00:40:34.510 --> 00:40:36.289
more knowledgeable about, I'm starting to learn
00:40:36.289 --> 00:40:38.469
more as I get older, but one of the things I
00:40:38.469 --> 00:40:41.230
wish I knew about in my younger days was the
00:40:41.230 --> 00:40:44.010
value of self -care. No one's really, at the
00:40:44.010 --> 00:40:46.070
end of the day, no one's looking out for you
00:40:46.070 --> 00:40:48.230
except for you. You have to take care of yourself.
00:40:48.409 --> 00:40:51.179
You have to do what's right. for your physical
00:40:51.179 --> 00:40:54.800
and mental wellbeing. And tax season is difficult
00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:57.400
for auditors, year end is difficult for accountants.
00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:00.519
Business consultants can have busy time, busy
00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:02.980
times of year doing business development and
00:41:02.980 --> 00:41:05.119
doing client work and finding that balance. But
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:07.420
if you don't take the time to make sure your
00:41:07.420 --> 00:41:09.820
head's on straight, making sure that you're managing
00:41:09.820 --> 00:41:12.840
your stress, making sure that you're physically
00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:16.280
and mentally... in a good spot, that's not gonna
00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:18.460
help all the work that you have to do. It's not
00:41:18.460 --> 00:41:20.400
gonna help the relationships that you have with
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:22.199
your business colleagues or your friends and
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:24.599
family. And I've been on the wrong side of that
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:26.739
in the past. I've been the pressure cooker of
00:41:26.739 --> 00:41:31.099
Diageo, who was so intense and it was so volatile
00:41:31.099 --> 00:41:33.280
and there was so much change. And we worked our
00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:35.480
tails off and it came at the expense because
00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:38.679
I didn't really realize the impact it was having
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:41.940
on me and those around me. And I paid a price
00:41:41.940 --> 00:41:44.139
for that. It was, it was a difficult lesson.
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:47.820
And so coming out of that experience and also
00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:50.460
coming out of COVID where I think one of the
00:41:50.460 --> 00:41:51.960
lessons I learned from COVID is there's more
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:54.800
to life than just your job. It was a nice, nice
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:57.699
reminder that those around you are what's matter,
00:41:58.019 --> 00:42:00.460
your relationships are what's matter. The fact
00:42:00.460 --> 00:42:01.840
that you couldn't see the people that you wanted
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:03.780
to see, and that was the most important thing
00:42:03.780 --> 00:42:07.099
to you says something. And so those people aren't
00:42:07.099 --> 00:42:08.679
going to be there for you. You're not going to
00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:12.210
have those relationships to to long after if
00:42:12.210 --> 00:42:14.090
you're not taking care of yourself during these
00:42:14.090 --> 00:42:16.829
busy times that we all get sucked into, but just
00:42:16.829 --> 00:42:18.750
being mindful of that. So whether you do it on
00:42:18.750 --> 00:42:20.889
your own, whether you do it with others, whether
00:42:20.889 --> 00:42:22.829
you're a reader, whether you listen to podcasts,
00:42:23.389 --> 00:42:25.730
feed your brain, spend time out, you know, schedule
00:42:25.730 --> 00:42:29.010
time to learn about those things to make yourself
00:42:29.010 --> 00:42:32.150
a little bit better. Even in my office or in
00:42:32.150 --> 00:42:34.230
some of our team meetings, we just do a couple
00:42:34.230 --> 00:42:36.929
of deep breaths. And after you do those deep
00:42:36.929 --> 00:42:39.699
breaths, you feel a little bit differently. my
00:42:39.699 --> 00:42:41.619
head's a little bit clearer, and maybe I can
00:42:41.619 --> 00:42:43.960
talk about a subject that was hard a little bit
00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:45.880
more easily because you have a different mindset.
00:42:46.340 --> 00:42:49.480
It's just a good reminder. I love that. Some
00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:50.719
people are probably going to be like, that is
00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:52.980
so California, which I love, created this my
00:42:52.980 --> 00:42:55.239
own home. And that's just so true. If you want
00:42:55.239 --> 00:42:57.719
to look after people, look after yourself and
00:42:57.719 --> 00:43:00.300
remember that relationships are critically important.
00:43:02.420 --> 00:43:04.559
This is what feeds the soul, what keeps us going
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:07.179
is making sure that we have that good connection.
00:43:07.420 --> 00:43:09.400
And talking about good connection, you mentioned
00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:11.880
both your wife who's amazing and your daughter.
00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:15.360
And what stood out when I was doing prep work
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:17.659
for this is your involvement with wonder dads.
00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:20.420
And, you know, I love that they start with be
00:43:20.420 --> 00:43:23.219
the dad they'll remember, which I'm obviously
00:43:23.219 --> 00:43:25.360
hoping that positive spin of that, not the terrible
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:29.300
spin of that one, but just, I'd love to just
00:43:29.300 --> 00:43:31.809
hear about your involvement in there. I spent
00:43:31.809 --> 00:43:33.929
maybe 15 minutes on the website earlier today
00:43:33.929 --> 00:43:36.369
and it just looks like a really great initiative.
00:43:36.809 --> 00:43:38.349
And, you know, the feedback from people that,
00:43:38.349 --> 00:43:41.309
you know, gone through the program is just really
00:43:41.309 --> 00:43:43.550
important. You can see how much support that
00:43:43.550 --> 00:43:45.230
dads are desperately looking for at the best
00:43:45.230 --> 00:43:47.949
of the time. And it sounds like a fantastic initiative.
00:43:48.269 --> 00:43:49.889
So if you could just touch on that, that would
00:43:49.889 --> 00:43:52.730
be fantastic to hear about. Yeah, happy to. I'm
00:43:52.730 --> 00:43:55.130
very fortunate that My best friend in the whole
00:43:55.130 --> 00:43:58.110
world that I met in ninth grade is a serial entrepreneur.
00:43:58.309 --> 00:44:02.429
And he's gone on in his life to create many amazing,
00:44:02.429 --> 00:44:05.050
impressive companies. But the one that he's most
00:44:05.050 --> 00:44:08.489
proud of is, is Wonder Dads. And that came from
00:44:08.489 --> 00:44:11.690
his own needs and his own self discovery that
00:44:11.690 --> 00:44:14.650
the dad has a very important role to play. And
00:44:14.650 --> 00:44:16.289
he didn't feel like there were a lot of resources
00:44:16.289 --> 00:44:19.769
available to him. to make the most of every day
00:44:19.769 --> 00:44:22.929
and, you know, every day matters. And if you're
00:44:22.929 --> 00:44:24.869
spending all your time deciding or trying to
00:44:24.869 --> 00:44:27.269
understand what to do, you've, you've missed
00:44:27.269 --> 00:44:29.289
a lot of that time and let it slip through your
00:44:29.289 --> 00:44:31.150
fingers. And so he really wanted to create a
00:44:31.150 --> 00:44:37.119
space for dads to develop. information and resources
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:39.880
for them to make each day a little bit better
00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:42.360
or more productive or how to get more out of
00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:44.159
the time that you have with your children at
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:46.519
the different ages that they're at. The most
00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:50.840
impactful one -page slide that Wonder Dads has
00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:54.639
created is a bar chart. And on the Y axis is
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:57.400
the child's name, pardon me, the child's age.
00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:00.920
And on the X axis is the number of days you have
00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:03.340
with them until they go to college, until they
00:45:03.340 --> 00:45:06.880
turn 18. And it's terrifying because when you
00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:10.519
can quantify how many days left your six -year
00:45:10.519 --> 00:45:13.360
-old, my six -year -old has at home before she
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:16.559
goes off to her next phase, like that's amazing
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:19.960
just to see those numbers and to see how few
00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:23.300
days remain. And so that's the context, that's
00:45:23.300 --> 00:45:26.019
the background behind Wonder Dads is creating
00:45:26.019 --> 00:45:28.800
that. those resources. And from there, he's developed
00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:31.480
a community. And so dads share their experiences.
00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:33.820
They share what's worked well or what's been
00:45:33.820 --> 00:45:36.400
challenging. You know, sometimes it's easy to
00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:39.039
think that you're in it alone. No one else understands
00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:41.059
what you're going through. And in this community
00:45:41.059 --> 00:45:43.219
that they've developed, have really given a lot
00:45:43.219 --> 00:45:45.900
to, you know, a big part of the population who
00:45:45.900 --> 00:45:48.579
could... benefit from the support. Yeah, that
00:45:48.579 --> 00:45:50.940
graph sounds absolutely terrifying as I have
00:45:50.940 --> 00:45:53.159
an eight and a 10 year old and I know how limited
00:45:53.159 --> 00:45:54.880
the days are. And I know there's like a stat
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:56.639
out there, something like by the time they're,
00:45:56.679 --> 00:45:58.440
I think it's 10, like you've spent more than
00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:00.000
half the time that you will spend with them in
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:02.559
their whole life. Like that's scary as anything.
00:46:02.739 --> 00:46:05.559
And I feel it already. My 10 year old is with
00:46:05.559 --> 00:46:07.960
friends and out and doing sports and like barely
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:09.900
see him anymore. Like he, he's there. He loves
00:46:09.900 --> 00:46:11.800
there. He sleeps there. He eats our food, but
00:46:11.800 --> 00:46:16.010
he's not there. I'm thankful I took a lot of
00:46:16.010 --> 00:46:18.449
time. I'm thankful I created an environment and
00:46:18.449 --> 00:46:20.150
the same environment I try to give to my team
00:46:20.150 --> 00:46:23.170
to be able to take those moments, to be able
00:46:23.170 --> 00:46:24.630
to spend time with their families, you know,
00:46:24.650 --> 00:46:26.789
go to those sports events, coach their teams,
00:46:27.289 --> 00:46:29.690
you go to, you know, the silly plays or whatever
00:46:29.690 --> 00:46:32.269
it is at the school, you know, go spend time
00:46:32.269 --> 00:46:35.090
with your kids because that's what they remember,
00:46:35.090 --> 00:46:36.949
right? They remember the moments. They don't
00:46:36.949 --> 00:46:38.880
remember the gifts. They don't remember. You
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:40.739
know, they might remember the trip, but they're
00:46:40.739 --> 00:46:42.559
not remembering the specific trip. They're spending,
00:46:42.739 --> 00:46:45.699
remembering the time with you. So I love the
00:46:45.699 --> 00:46:47.639
concept. I really love what you guys are doing
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:50.599
there. So that's good to hear about that. And
00:46:50.599 --> 00:46:54.179
it just seems like something that more dads should
00:46:54.179 --> 00:46:56.280
find time. You know, you're talking about connection
00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:58.139
and spending time is important. Like finding
00:46:58.139 --> 00:47:01.000
a network that can help you be better is such
00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:04.900
a great cause. Yeah, I agree. This week I had
00:47:04.900 --> 00:47:07.980
a big... milestone. We officially have a bike
00:47:07.980 --> 00:47:11.019
rider now in our household. For the longest time,
00:47:11.139 --> 00:47:13.300
my daughter was not interested in riding a bike
00:47:13.300 --> 00:47:16.420
or she was nervous about trying and concerned
00:47:16.420 --> 00:47:19.840
about getting hurt and falling off. A lot of
00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:21.800
her friends were having a blast. They were up
00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:24.099
and running and I just thought she was missing
00:47:24.099 --> 00:47:26.119
out and I know she would like it once she got
00:47:26.119 --> 00:47:29.289
it, but it just wasn't happening. It wasn't until
00:47:29.289 --> 00:47:31.789
recently where she decided, okay, I'm going to
00:47:31.789 --> 00:47:34.309
get serious about trying. And for a couple of
00:47:34.309 --> 00:47:36.449
days in the neighborhood, we were out there trying
00:47:36.449 --> 00:47:40.010
and, you know, falling and scraping and, you
00:47:40.010 --> 00:47:43.530
know, upset situations and it just wasn't working
00:47:43.530 --> 00:47:47.309
out. And then on Wednesday, we made a couple
00:47:47.309 --> 00:47:49.550
of adjustments. We thought about what we had
00:47:49.550 --> 00:47:51.550
been, you know, learning about the past couple
00:47:51.550 --> 00:47:54.909
of days and she got it, man. And it was the best
00:47:54.909 --> 00:47:59.179
feeling that I had her. you know, smile said
00:47:59.179 --> 00:48:01.559
it all. And she's like, I love riding bikes.
00:48:01.579 --> 00:48:03.500
I want to do this all the time. And I'm like,
00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:07.199
this is great. And outside of that like amazing
00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:09.820
dad moment, the other thing that was happening
00:48:09.820 --> 00:48:11.920
was our neighbors were out and about. They were
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:14.619
walking or driving by and they were encouraging
00:48:14.619 --> 00:48:16.920
us and they were excited to see what we were
00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:19.960
doing together. And one dad even stopped in his
00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:23.730
car unsolicited and he's like, launched into
00:48:23.730 --> 00:48:26.369
telling me the story of how he taught his three
00:48:26.369 --> 00:48:28.269
sons how to ride their bikes. And like, I don't,
00:48:28.409 --> 00:48:30.929
I didn't ask for that. I didn't, you know, want
00:48:30.929 --> 00:48:33.110
to understand that, but he was so excited about
00:48:33.110 --> 00:48:35.090
what we were doing. And it was such an important
00:48:35.090 --> 00:48:37.710
part of his journey with his family. He just
00:48:37.710 --> 00:48:40.250
had to share it and he was excited about our
00:48:40.250 --> 00:48:42.989
excitement. And so it was just an awesome feeling
00:48:42.989 --> 00:48:45.570
to kind of reach that milestone and, and see
00:48:45.570 --> 00:48:47.929
how special it was to, to some of our neighbors
00:48:47.929 --> 00:48:51.559
and, and to us. Yeah, I absolutely love that
00:48:51.559 --> 00:48:53.760
and you know, that's how we build connections
00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:57.059
by sharing our memories, right? But I would love
00:48:57.059 --> 00:48:58.619
you to tell your daughter that I'm super proud
00:48:58.619 --> 00:49:00.960
of her because that is not easy when it's, especially
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:02.840
when it's not going, going away and then she
00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:04.960
persevered and kept with it. That is, that's
00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:08.059
amazing. That makes me happy. Yeah. It was a
00:49:08.059 --> 00:49:10.000
good feeling. I will. Mike, as we come sort of
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:11.719
come to the end of our conversation and I wish
00:49:11.719 --> 00:49:13.599
we could just go on forever because this has
00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:18.320
been amazing. But I wanted to ask you. Really
00:49:18.320 --> 00:49:20.300
just two more questions and then we'll get sort
00:49:20.300 --> 00:49:23.179
of into the rapid fire questions that we end
00:49:23.179 --> 00:49:25.980
the show with. But first of all, what are your
00:49:25.980 --> 00:49:27.360
short -term goals? What are you working on at
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:30.800
the moment? Yeah, right now the team that I work
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:32.719
with, they're veterans. They know what they're
00:49:32.719 --> 00:49:35.099
doing. They know the business inside and out.
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:38.019
And so it's nice to come into an environment
00:49:38.019 --> 00:49:41.969
where that's really well understood. The value
00:49:41.969 --> 00:49:44.110
of an outside perspective, a new perspective,
00:49:44.489 --> 00:49:46.650
is you can see some things with fresh eyes. And
00:49:46.650 --> 00:49:50.210
so the two areas that I'm really focused on right
00:49:50.210 --> 00:49:52.969
now, and I think a lot of other people might
00:49:52.969 --> 00:49:56.449
be focused on, are data workflows and automation,
00:49:56.610 --> 00:49:59.429
also combined with the cash conversion cycle.
00:49:59.590 --> 00:50:01.909
I've really grown to love the cash conversion
00:50:01.909 --> 00:50:04.710
cycle because I think it's a very digestible
00:50:04.710 --> 00:50:07.510
way to talk with folks outside of the accounting
00:50:07.510 --> 00:50:10.829
area to understand what's happening. and to put
00:50:10.829 --> 00:50:13.530
some initiatives around making small incremental
00:50:13.530 --> 00:50:17.190
improvements. I love taking the idea of selling
00:50:17.190 --> 00:50:19.849
products on credit, paying vendors on credit,
00:50:20.170 --> 00:50:21.989
and understanding how long your inventory is
00:50:21.989 --> 00:50:25.969
sitting around for as a way to understand how
00:50:25.969 --> 00:50:27.750
your working capital is deployed and how much
00:50:27.750 --> 00:50:30.610
cash you might have on hand. I've seen so many
00:50:30.610 --> 00:50:34.110
examples of people managing cash but in very
00:50:34.110 --> 00:50:36.250
different ways. Some people might say, don't
00:50:36.250 --> 00:50:38.309
spend a lot of money this month. Some people
00:50:38.309 --> 00:50:41.510
might say, sell more of this such and such. Some
00:50:41.510 --> 00:50:43.769
people might say use up what you have. Like those
00:50:43.769 --> 00:50:47.130
are all valid ideas, but the cash conversion
00:50:47.130 --> 00:50:49.619
cycle can really highlight. where you're on track
00:50:49.619 --> 00:50:52.940
and where small incremental improvements can
00:50:52.940 --> 00:50:55.139
move the needle around the amount of cash that
00:50:55.139 --> 00:50:57.340
you have on hand and how your working capital
00:50:57.340 --> 00:51:00.840
is deployed. We have an example where someone
00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:04.639
we buy from is also someone we sell to, but our
00:51:04.639 --> 00:51:06.940
payment terms were different on the payable and
00:51:06.940 --> 00:51:09.119
receivable side. Well, shouldn't those be the
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:12.260
same? That's a small example, but it's a step
00:51:12.260 --> 00:51:14.900
towards improving the cash conversion cycle.
00:51:15.079 --> 00:51:17.960
You know, what I like about it is identifying
00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:20.420
those three buckets of receivables, payables,
00:51:20.539 --> 00:51:22.840
and inventory. It's very easy to identify three
00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:25.940
or four strategies under each one to try to improve
00:51:25.940 --> 00:51:28.440
those numbers. And that's something that you
00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:31.039
can identify. It's something you can collaboratively
00:51:31.039 --> 00:51:32.960
develop with other people outside the company.
00:51:33.179 --> 00:51:35.500
And then at the, you know, after a certain time,
00:51:35.539 --> 00:51:37.360
you can see if it made a difference. What I love
00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:39.219
explaining to people is that could be the difference
00:51:39.219 --> 00:51:41.630
between. Improvements in the cash conversion
00:51:41.630 --> 00:51:43.630
cycle could be the difference between having
00:51:43.630 --> 00:51:45.510
to use your line of credit or not. And if you're
00:51:45.510 --> 00:51:47.949
using your line of credit or not, you are incurring
00:51:47.949 --> 00:51:50.130
interest expense. And that's interest expense
00:51:50.130 --> 00:51:52.650
that we have to pay for that we might not have
00:51:52.650 --> 00:51:54.510
to. We could have done other things with that
00:51:54.510 --> 00:51:57.329
money if we had slight improvements on our cash
00:51:57.329 --> 00:52:00.610
conversion cycle. So it's a real big way to get
00:52:00.610 --> 00:52:03.230
engagement with other team members to say why
00:52:03.230 --> 00:52:06.460
it's important, not just to me. Yeah, I love
00:52:06.460 --> 00:52:09.039
that. Uh, I'm in the wine space and cash conversion
00:52:09.039 --> 00:52:11.539
cycles are huge at the moment. So I love hearing
00:52:11.539 --> 00:52:13.579
about that is things that I'm playing around
00:52:13.579 --> 00:52:15.099
with a little bit at the moment, how we can make
00:52:15.099 --> 00:52:16.880
small incremental changes to help the cashflow
00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:18.900
cycles to get people away from those lines of
00:52:18.900 --> 00:52:21.159
credit that causing interest, which is creating
00:52:21.159 --> 00:52:23.679
problems in the cashflow cycle. So it is, uh,
00:52:23.699 --> 00:52:25.800
it's a, it's a terrible cycle. A lot of people
00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:28.960
get into, so that is great. And then the other
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:32.760
thing with data automation, you know, There's
00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:35.099
so many different systems that many companies
00:52:35.099 --> 00:52:38.460
use. The tech stack is growing by the day, and
00:52:38.460 --> 00:52:40.840
all of that data has to flow from one place to
00:52:40.840 --> 00:52:45.059
another. And it's really hard to identify the
00:52:45.059 --> 00:52:48.480
cost of not having that optimized. But if you
00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:52.880
scratch out some calculations on a sheet of paper,
00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:56.940
it can add up. And so identifying the... data
00:52:56.940 --> 00:53:00.320
flows that can be automated and the time that
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:04.400
that can save has tremendous value, both from
00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:07.659
a time savings perspective and an accuracy perspective.
00:53:08.019 --> 00:53:09.980
So we've been really focusing on identifying
00:53:09.980 --> 00:53:12.559
those flows, prioritizing which ones we want
00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:15.000
to automate, and then putting project teams in
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:18.159
place above people's day jobs to, to work on
00:53:18.159 --> 00:53:20.719
automating those folks. Yeah, that's great advice.
00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:22.699
And one, you know, to add to that point for everybody
00:53:22.699 --> 00:53:26.059
who's listening. your providers, if it does a
00:53:26.059 --> 00:53:27.880
certain job. Cause a lot of the time we're pulling
00:53:27.880 --> 00:53:30.179
information out to go do something else somewhere
00:53:30.179 --> 00:53:33.659
else. Because we just don't know that the technology
00:53:33.659 --> 00:53:35.960
that the original data is actually can do that
00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:37.980
task. And maybe you can't do it as well as the
00:53:37.980 --> 00:53:40.239
other one, but being able to stay in the same
00:53:40.239 --> 00:53:42.239
place and you don't have to task switch. You
00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:44.539
don't have to do checks to make sure the data
00:53:44.539 --> 00:53:46.039
came in correctly. All those types of things
00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:49.599
is a huge saving. So just something that I'm
00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:52.500
finding that sometimes The good enough answer
00:53:52.500 --> 00:53:57.039
is even better than the best answer because that
00:53:57.039 --> 00:53:59.199
time saving and the speed to be able to get the
00:53:59.199 --> 00:54:00.559
answer to the people that are trying to make
00:54:00.559 --> 00:54:03.320
decisions makes a big difference. I like it.
00:54:03.420 --> 00:54:06.019
Mike, what advice do you have for young accountants
00:54:06.019 --> 00:54:07.739
that are just starting their career? I have two
00:54:07.739 --> 00:54:10.699
pieces of advice that come to mind. One is from
00:54:10.699 --> 00:54:13.300
my dad. He was a steel worker. He started at
00:54:13.300 --> 00:54:15.460
the bottom and finished at the top. He was also
00:54:15.460 --> 00:54:18.820
a Marine. So he had a certain demeanor and energy
00:54:18.820 --> 00:54:22.159
about him. But the thing he constantly said that
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:25.780
I will never forget is make a plan, work the
00:54:25.780 --> 00:54:29.340
plan, and revise the plan. And I heard those
00:54:29.340 --> 00:54:32.239
words as a young person. He repeated them often.
00:54:32.940 --> 00:54:35.940
I thought I understood it, but it hasn't been.
00:54:36.679 --> 00:54:39.280
I've understand it a lot better now as the years
00:54:39.280 --> 00:54:41.599
have gone by. Nothing's linear. There's always
00:54:41.599 --> 00:54:44.159
bumps in the road. The value is having a target
00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:47.739
to go after, working toward it. And then adjusting
00:54:47.739 --> 00:54:50.000
where you need to, and that's life in a nutshell.
00:54:50.380 --> 00:54:53.039
And so, um, I'm thankful that that's what he
00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:55.000
shared with me. Sometimes I do that really well.
00:54:55.019 --> 00:54:56.980
Sometimes I can do it better, but that's something
00:54:56.980 --> 00:54:59.480
that is very valuable and kind of sets people
00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:01.699
down the right road. The other piece of advice.
00:55:02.099 --> 00:55:03.880
Just as a note, I wrote that down on a piece
00:55:03.880 --> 00:55:07.760
of paper. I, that is absolutely gold. I, I absolutely
00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:10.659
love that. Yeah. Thank you. The other piece of
00:55:10.659 --> 00:55:13.639
advice is I got from a sales persons. I was really
00:55:13.639 --> 00:55:17.440
lucky in my. I wasn't just an accountant who
00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:19.559
sat in the accounting department, I was a business
00:55:19.559 --> 00:55:22.199
partner with different commercial teams. And
00:55:22.199 --> 00:55:24.400
it was fun to be part of that sales organization
00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:27.679
and support them in different ways and be part
00:55:27.679 --> 00:55:31.119
of the mix. And the sales leader was the best
00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:34.300
in the company, managed the most important teams,
00:55:34.480 --> 00:55:37.539
put up the biggest numbers, had a great demeanor
00:55:37.539 --> 00:55:41.559
and attitude and leadership skills. really lucky
00:55:41.559 --> 00:55:43.860
to work closely with him. But I noticed that
00:55:43.860 --> 00:55:45.519
when he would come into the office, he'd always
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:47.900
be talking to people. Like he'd go talk to this
00:55:47.900 --> 00:55:50.480
department and he'd go talk to customer service
00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:52.739
and he'd talk to operations. I'm like, does this
00:55:52.739 --> 00:55:55.219
guy ever sit at his desk and do any work? Like
00:55:55.219 --> 00:55:58.840
he's just talking, talking, talking. And I really
00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:00.500
was scratching my head because it was so different
00:56:00.500 --> 00:56:03.639
than how I operated. And I'm like, Hey, what
00:56:03.639 --> 00:56:05.340
are you doing? Like what's going on here? He's
00:56:05.340 --> 00:56:08.639
like, my advice to you is, is build it before
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:12.739
you need it. He goes, I. I have learned through
00:56:12.739 --> 00:56:16.519
his sales education and experiences, it's all
00:56:16.519 --> 00:56:19.059
about the relationship, investing in time to
00:56:19.059 --> 00:56:21.380
get to know who people are, what they're about,
00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:23.699
what they need, how they think, what's important
00:56:23.699 --> 00:56:27.139
to them, all that matters. And when you have
00:56:27.139 --> 00:56:30.159
that foundation, then different business topics
00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:33.039
come up or challenges or opportunities, you can
00:56:33.039 --> 00:56:35.260
start working together and hit the ground running.
00:56:35.420 --> 00:56:38.010
If you don't know what someone's about, a business
00:56:38.010 --> 00:56:40.389
issue comes up, you're put together with someone
00:56:40.389 --> 00:56:42.050
and you're going to work through it, but it's
00:56:42.050 --> 00:56:44.590
going to be from a different place. And those
00:56:44.590 --> 00:56:48.829
that I've found who make time to understand those
00:56:48.829 --> 00:56:51.329
around them, what they're about, how they can
00:56:51.329 --> 00:56:53.849
be supported, what they're working towards, be
00:56:53.849 --> 00:56:56.110
seen as people, not just as coworkers or someone
00:56:56.110 --> 00:56:59.050
who does X, Y, Z function. That matters. I've
00:56:59.050 --> 00:57:01.030
worked the hardest for him. I worked the hardest
00:57:01.030 --> 00:57:03.889
for other leaders and managers who see me as
00:57:03.889 --> 00:57:06.969
a person. Realize what I'm coming to work for
00:57:06.969 --> 00:57:09.610
and help me get there, not just that I can get
00:57:09.610 --> 00:57:12.590
this report or do this calculation. So build
00:57:12.590 --> 00:57:15.230
it before you need it. Again, easier said than
00:57:15.230 --> 00:57:17.889
done. Doesn't always happen, but it goes back
00:57:17.889 --> 00:57:19.610
to what we were talking about earlier. Scheduling
00:57:19.610 --> 00:57:21.949
time, making time, even though it doesn't, if
00:57:21.949 --> 00:57:24.110
it doesn't feel like an obvious thing to do,
00:57:24.550 --> 00:57:26.789
it definitely has dividends down the road. Guarantee
00:57:26.789 --> 00:57:31.269
it. I love it. That two excellent piece of advice
00:57:31.269 --> 00:57:34.000
and. A great way to end our conversation. Mike,
00:57:34.119 --> 00:57:37.480
I've truly appreciated it. We can't leave without
00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:39.579
some rapid fire. So I have five questions for
00:57:39.579 --> 00:57:43.000
you if you're ready. Boy, bring it. What is your
00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:46.119
dream vacation? Oh man, distillery tour in Scotland.
00:57:47.280 --> 00:57:50.300
Love it. Do you prefer audio books or paper books?
00:57:51.199 --> 00:57:53.199
Audio books. I've been spending time in the car
00:57:53.199 --> 00:57:55.099
and I've been looking for different ways to kind
00:57:55.099 --> 00:57:58.420
of feed my brain in the car. Yeah. I absolutely
00:57:58.420 --> 00:58:01.320
love that. What is a quality that you appreciate
00:58:01.320 --> 00:58:04.340
most in a good friend? Humility. I love people
00:58:04.340 --> 00:58:06.559
that can poke fun at themselves, not take things
00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:09.360
too seriously. Being self -deprecating shows
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:13.320
that you're real and vulnerable and that's someone
00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:15.539
I want to be around because I think they're authentic
00:58:15.539 --> 00:58:19.760
self. I love that quality. What is your favorite
00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:22.320
piece of technology that makes your life better?
00:58:22.699 --> 00:58:26.579
Man, I have really enjoyed using AI, having a
00:58:26.579 --> 00:58:29.420
thought partner, having... Um, a way to kind
00:58:29.420 --> 00:58:32.159
of work through frameworks, ideas, get pieces
00:58:32.159 --> 00:58:34.199
of information. I'm just starting to scratch
00:58:34.199 --> 00:58:37.320
the surface, but I've really loved dipping my
00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:40.480
toe into the pool and seeing what can come from
00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:42.760
it. Great. And surprisingly, it took this long
00:58:42.760 --> 00:58:45.119
in the conversation to pop up for the first time.
00:58:45.420 --> 00:58:48.480
It's a hot topic. So, but I'm glad we snuck it
00:58:48.480 --> 00:58:51.900
in. Last question. Young Mike, when he was growing
00:58:51.900 --> 00:58:55.539
up, what was his favorite meal? Man, my mom made
00:58:55.539 --> 00:58:59.650
lamb chops and. The biggest compliment I gave
00:58:59.650 --> 00:59:02.349
her is that I finished my whole plate. My mom
00:59:02.349 --> 00:59:06.010
was Irish. So flavor and like tasty food was
00:59:06.010 --> 00:59:08.349
not, you know, our strong suit. But when she
00:59:08.349 --> 00:59:10.449
made lamb chops, there was something magical
00:59:10.449 --> 00:59:13.409
about it. And I tore through my plate. And the
00:59:13.409 --> 00:59:15.730
biggest compliment I gave her was that, mom,
00:59:15.730 --> 00:59:17.570
I finished my whole plate and I didn't even have
00:59:17.570 --> 00:59:19.929
to take a drink of milk to kind of like wash
00:59:19.929 --> 00:59:22.030
it down. Like I do with all the other dinners
00:59:22.030 --> 00:59:25.269
that were, you know, somewhat. And she's like,
00:59:25.329 --> 00:59:28.260
okay, I'll take it. So. Lantops from Malibu are
00:59:28.260 --> 00:59:30.659
the best. It wasn't like cabbage and salt beef
00:59:30.659 --> 00:59:34.159
that you had to take, take as a polite. Mike,
00:59:34.159 --> 00:59:36.019
I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much
00:59:36.019 --> 00:59:38.480
for being a guest in Project Conversations. Yeah,
00:59:38.480 --> 00:59:40.599
I love what you're doing. The value that you
00:59:40.599 --> 00:59:43.039
and your team are providing to the wine industry
00:59:43.039 --> 00:59:46.639
is important and needed. And you're doing a good
00:59:46.639 --> 00:59:50.480
job. Keep it up. Thank you, Mike. Thanks. And
00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:52.719
with that, we ended another Project Conversations.
00:59:53.099 --> 00:59:55.400
Thank you for joining us in this journey of learning
00:59:55.400 --> 00:59:58.489
and inspiration. Today we've gained insight from
00:59:58.489 --> 01:00:00.650
our case and taken another step towards understanding
01:00:00.650 --> 01:00:02.670
the diverse tapestry of leadership in business
01:00:02.670 --> 01:00:05.230
and accounting. Remember, each conversation is
01:00:05.230 --> 01:00:07.510
a step towards a positive transformation of business
01:00:07.510 --> 01:00:09.969
leaders. We hope our discussion has given you
01:00:09.969 --> 01:00:11.710
valuable takeaways to apply in your own career
01:00:11.710 --> 01:00:14.250
and life. Don't forget to subscribe to Prairie
01:00:14.250 --> 01:00:16.909
Conversations on YouTube and Spotify so you never
01:00:16.909 --> 01:00:19.489
miss an episode. We'd also love to hear your
01:00:19.489 --> 01:00:21.369
important experiences, so connect with me on
01:00:21.369 --> 01:00:23.849
social media channels. I'm most active on LinkedIn,
01:00:24.050 --> 01:00:26.230
and I'd love you to join the conversation. Join
01:00:26.230 --> 01:00:28.849
us next time for more engaging stories, advice,
01:00:29.070 --> 01:00:31.829
and conversations that matter. Until then, keep
01:00:31.829 --> 01:00:34.559
striving for excellence. grace and growth. Thank
01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:37.239
you for listening. Be kind and goodbye from private
01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:37.760
conversations.