Gareth Fry

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Hello, and welcome to prompt.
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A podcast that looks at fair to, from Um perspective of me Jess and act stage manager.
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Join me as I chat to a wide range of theater practitioners about their experiences, mistakes and whether or not they are indeed prompt.
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Hello, welcome to prompt.
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Um, I hope you're having a great day.
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I'm having a great day.
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Um, I got back from camping yesterday.
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I'm fully invested in camping now.
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Um, for somebody who usually requires quite high levels of comfort.
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And hygiene.
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Um, I was quite surprised to discover about myself that I am an adept camper.
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I had a brilliant time.
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Me and the girls.
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Uh, making fires and running around and, uh, it was brilliant.
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I had such a ball.
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Um, yeah, I'm just excited about this summer holidays in general, actually.
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Um, this time last year, my eldest had broken her arm.
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And we just moved house.
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Um, she didn't know anybody.
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I didn't know anybody.
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Um, Ruby laws, it was all kinds of stuff going on.
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And this year I'm like, right, this is our summer.
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Um, she hasn't.
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Knock on wood yet broken any bones.
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Uh, she has a ton of friends.
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She signed up to loads of clubs.
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I've also got an amazing.
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A new support network.
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Um, my job is really different and it's so great.
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My boss is awesome.
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I'm just like, right.
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Bring it on.
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We're going to have the best summer.
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I know that a lot of parents usually drive the summer holidays, but like, I'm really into it this year.
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I can't wait.
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Um, so this week we have on the amazing sound designer, Garris fry.
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Um, He is an incredibly well-known, uh, Sounds.
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I know it probably one of the best in the country.
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Um, he's one Olivier's he's one Tony's he's written a book about sound.
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Um, he did the sound design for the opening ceremony of the 2012 Olympics.
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Um, and like most people who come on this podcast, he's incredibly nice.
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Uh, somebody sent me an email this week that really made me laugh saying, um, That I didn't interview enough assholes.
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They were like your podcast is your true representation.
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Of the industry.
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'cause you just keep talking to people who really nice.
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Um, but there are lots of really nice people who work in the industry.
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I think it's okay to keep interviewing them.
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Um, but just quickly before we get onto the interview, I just wanted to talk about something called my digital SM kits.
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Um, it's something that Sharon Hopton has created.
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Sharon Hopton.
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Is the DSM on frozen.
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She was on Groundhog day.
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She is like the ultimate worst.
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Andy DSM.
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I think that I could have worked and worked and tried and tried and put like a thousand percent effort in and I never would have been as good a DSM as Sharon Hopton.
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Um, and she has created this online resource.
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Of, uh, sheets, things that can basically help your stage management team.
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Um, she's got a thing, uh, that's like a tick in sheet.
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Um, and so you, if you're, you know, if you have a big team with a large company, you can all be taking people in in real time, it will be updating as you go.
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Um, You know, there's not that kind of like running around, looking for people.
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You think you might've seen that person that person's not going to the toilet.
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Um, it's a great resource.
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Uh, you can find it on Instagram and she also has some YouTube videos, um, to support it.
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They're really, really fantastic.
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The exact sort of thing that I wish I'd had available when I was stage managing.
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So do check it out.
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Um, and if you have anything that you want me to talk about on this podcast, if you have a product or an app that you think.
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Would suit my very niche.
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Demographic.
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Then do feel free to let me know if you go onto coffee.com.
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Uh, so it's K O Ford slash.
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Jess branch.
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Um, and let me know that and for the price of a cup of coffee, I will give your product a shout out.
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And that money obviously goes towards the small cost that I have, uh, to run this podcast.
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Um, so without further ado, let's get onto this interview with Gareth fry, because it's a good one.
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hello, Gareth Fry.
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Thank you so much for joining me today on Prompt.
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it's really lovely to have you here.
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You are, uh, probably one of the best sound designers in the country.
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You've won, uh, three Tonys, two Olivier's, and you've won Uh, you've written a book called Sound Design for the Stage, and I feel very self conscious of the fact that I'm sat here with my 80 microphone and a duvet.
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Whatever works.
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Whatever I mean, I mean, does it work? Is it working? I don't know.
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yeah, totally.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Um, so yeah, thank you very much for coming and talking to me.
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Lovely to be on.
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I, always found the sound department a bit of a mystery, um, when I was a stage manager.
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Um, and that's definitely, more my fault than anybody else's.
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I always felt that it was a DSM.
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I was sat there at the desk and quite often in tech, you're sort of placed with the lighting department.
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They're kind of like, physically near you and the sound department can often be at the back.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Um, and I could, you know, when you're kind of going, are we waiting? Like, what are we doing? I could always kind of see what the lighting department were doing and the sound department were always a bit of a mystery.
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I was like, are they, are they, what are they doing? Are they, are they ready? and I think I'm I'm obviously yeah that you can tangibly see what lighting are doing and that yeah that that makes it really But I think because the sound department change what you know, we do different things on different shows Sometimes it's all about sound effects.
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Sometimes.
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It's all about radio mics.
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Sometimes it's all about music Recorded like it's often it changes so much which I think sort of A like, you know,, sometimes we don't know what we're doing on a given show as well.
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But yeah, I think that sort of Not add to the mystery that makes it sound, you know, we're like we're deliberately being mysterious, because sound often is, you know, less tangible to, you know, you can't see what's going on and yeah, although saying that then they introduced video and then I never knew what video we're doing.
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I sort of felt like I'd got used to knowing what we were waiting for with lights and sound and then they introduced video and I was like a video, a video ready, but no, they were usually rendering.
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That's the word that I learned in that totally.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So in, in that sense.
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Have you ever worked with a stage manager or is there a stage manager who kind of springs to mind when you think of, of how you, uh, just kind of build that relationship, especially in tech, between stage management and sound? Yeah,, I've sort of worked on quite a, sort of large variety of styles of shows, And my sort of roots I guess is in doing devised theater where there isn't anybody calling the show at all and everybody's taking their own cues and and that requires a certain amount of Intuitive coordination between departments and what's happening on stage and being in rehearsals a lot and everybody getting in On the same page by developing the work together And then i've also sort of done a lot of shows At the other end of the spectrum where everything is very organized and planned And coordinated and, spend a lot of time working with various DSMs or stage managers or show callers working out how this is going to work, how that's going to work, planning how to get from the start of tech to the end of show, you know, to the first show.
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And then there's lots of shows which sort of are in between those two spectrums and involve a degree of this and a degree of that and because I work on a lot of different shows Often I think the thing that keeps me interested in what I'm doing is often I often get asked to work on the shows that are slightly odd and slightly Aren't going about things necessarily in the usual way of doing things.
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On a lot of those shows we're kind of having to take the traditional process and adapt it a bit and work out a different way of doing it or we might you know you know do you do a show in a new way and then Do another show that develops that Way of doing it and evolves and develops more And so yeah, you often end up going.
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Okay How are we going to do this show how are we going to all work together? Stage management, lighting, performance, yeah, I was just doing this, um, show with Punch Drunk a few weeks ago and there are no performers in it.
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The audience Helena Bonham Carter audio.
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yeah, Viola's Room and yeah, you go in, you're in groups of six, you're wearing headphones.
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And you're kind of led through a labyrinth Listening to a soundtrack and you're sort of guided by there are hundreds and hundreds of little lights that light up to show you where to walk to next and we sort of and Simon Wilkinson was the lighting designer on that and We started the tech For that and for all of us it was a bit like okay Well, this is unlike any other show that we've ever teched before it's unlike any show that punch drunk has done before really How are we going to tech this yeah, what's the process And we were all a little bit like, Hmm, this is, this is all, this is new for all of us.
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Okay.
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We need to work out the process of, you know, how stage management are going to work, how queuing is going to work, what's going to come off time code.
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What's the process of teching the show and working out creatively how we make the cues and Demonstrate them to direct to the director and then how do we translate that into the System of running the show and stuff like that And that collaboration can be really exciting when everyone's like, nobody's going, Oh, well, we've done it before like this and this works, everyone has to kind of think outside the box, Yeah, yeah, I think I don't think that's what I find interesting is is when you're kind of forced to Re evaluate your processes and go.
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Okay.
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How are we gonna do this this time? I'm sorry I completely failed to answer the question So the question was, the question was are there stage managers who sort of stuck in your head quite memorably for, you know, making sure that that, that relationship between, sound design and, stage management is working.
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And like you say, kind of making sure that those processes are working.
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Cause I mean, for instance, I was thinking, the other night about the encounter Yeah and I was trying to work out the teching of it the other day, because it must have been quite a quiet tech, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.
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Yeah, I know it's like when you're walking around.
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Like when the show's running, there's virtually no sound in the auditorium.
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Like, you know, Simon, who, when he's performing it, often he's talking at a whisper.
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Yeah, there's no sound effects coming from speakers on stage.
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The majority of the time.
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Yeah, it's the whole place is definitely silent and it's sort of it's really weird kind of atmosphere and for that and that was a show of You know Going okay.
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How do we tech this? If everybody's, you know, everybody in the creative team's wearing headphones.
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How does that going to work with intercom headsets? And also just to give some context to, um, our listeners who didn't see that show.
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So the encounter was, um, a one person show, Simon McBurney, which used, um, binaural sound.
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So there was a, a head on stage and Simon McBurney With lots of microphones in it, and uh, Simon McBurney would, when he spoke into the right ear of the head, the audience members who were wearing headsets would then hear Simon McBurney, um, in their right ear.
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So Barbican, and every single audience member is wearing a headset.
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You had to do a sound check with every, basically every single member of the audience, which was fascinating to watch, because there was people going, I can't hear it! And in front of the house, people having to go from, go, no, it just works! Yeah, 850 pairs of wired headphones is is a lot.
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and you know, and and because they're on ear headphones that they're not compatible with They don't work so well with hearing aids of different types So like everybody requires different personalized solutions as well because there's such a wide range of hearing loss and sensitivities So those that you know, that was um yeah.
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of work And it was, it was such an incredible show, and it was just Simon McBurney, uh, walking around on stage and kind of what is happening with the sound effects, what's happening with his voice, you, you were transported and you went on a journey, um, with him.
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Um, and I actually, I remember coming out of the theater and feeling really spaced out.
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I didn't, which I don't usually, you know, you, you kind of get let out onto the streets of London, you're like, yeah, I've just been to see a show.
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And I remember as an audience member being like, gosh, I feel really bizarre.
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I really do feel like I've gone on Good good.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I'm not I don't know.
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I you know, it's the desire to use that Technique with that, you know with the headphones and binaural sound was to kind of transport your way to the amazon and put you into this um it, and it really, it really, did.
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And it's because it also because sound, I think somebody said something to me the other day at a party, and I thought it was really interesting.
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We were just talking about the podcast and they said, you know, if you're on television, you're talking to everybody, but when you do a podcast, you're talking to one person.
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And I think that it, and I was like, gosh, I never thought of that before, but I think that it does.
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in that theater, just like the audience members, all kind of everything just kind of fell away because you could only hear this one thing.
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But now I've completely got off my point as well.
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Um, but how, how you, how you, kind of tech that, because I can imagine that Simon McBurney during that tech, if he's just walking on round on stage, talking very quietly, it's like, what, what is everybody, what is everybody else doing? And also I imagine that the sound department in that show were probably sort of working quite independently from stage management.
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I'm presuming that they sort of got sound cue one go and then they were kind of Essentially, yeah, yeah, and what part of in a moment I'll talk about Macbeth, which I did the Donmar last year, which was a different thing and but with the encounter.
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Part of the initial brief of that was Simon will never perform this show twice the same way, you know, as co director with Kirstie Housley.
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And, you know, so they were adapting it, writing it, devising it.
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Simon was performing it.
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And, you know, his style is to kind of find it with the audience.
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So, you know.
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The second preview he would develop the text a little bit depending on how the audience responded or or if something made more sense to him in that moment on that day and So every single performance we did of that which was across many months over a couple of years You know touring the uk touring europe performing on broadway Australia all over the place never the same show twice Uh, the sound operators didn't have scripts.
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Um, you know, we, we, we had a framework of a script and we kind of, we had an auto cue system in place so that, uh, Simon could, um, Have that to refer to and come back to but it meant that he could go off on a tangent come back to the framework or he could skip to a new to a section and skip back and the auto cue operator would have to frantically Fast forward and rewind to bring it to the right place so that he could then get back on track but it meant that the The operators had to be Um, able to be as flexible with that as, as possible, which meant, yeah, they had, yeah, they were in rehearsals for weeks.
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Um, the whole way the system was programmed had to be fluid so that they could jump around.
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Yeah, it wasn't just a queue list of queues and that happened in a linear order.
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We, you know, we had mechanisms so that, you know, They could bring up any particular atmosphere of sound effects at any given moment Lots of hockey sound effects and stuff like that Um, and everybody had to be really in tune with Simon you know because we're doing these voice changing effects so that he might jump into his american accent, which was pitched down a couple of semitones, but You have to turn that on before he starts speaking.
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So you have to know that he's gonna do that And the only way to know that is to kind of be in tune with his head um So that was like that was you know I often referred to them as like a jazz trio of simon on stage and the two sound operators um Wow.
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Did you have the same two sound operators the whole time, like for the we of the show, or did it change a It it did change.
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Yeah, and we and we got to the point where we When we were performing on broadway, the producers were like, okay, this is such a critical thing.
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You need an understudy Sound operator and so um We had we had there were actually three desks at the back of the auditorium for that The there was a microphone operator who had a mixing desk a sound effects operator had a mixing desk and then the understudy sound operator who had a mixing desk and they would Basically mix one of those two tracks live each night, but not going to the audience just to their own headphones So they could learn the show and practice live Before they jumped into the Gosh, that's, that's huge.
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Like when you're, when as a DSM, you're teaching the ASM book cover, you know, you kind of put all those processes in place, but I've never heard of it on a show where you have to have that much kind of level of rehearsal as it were before you can be let loose.
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I mean, yeah.
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And, but how, Yeah.
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were, brought into the fold so much and that they were part of the team.
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And yeah, it, it, it does really sound like actually they were doing a lot of the heavy lifting that the stage management team would usually do.
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And also it sounds like you will really relish the challenge.
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Like somebody saying to me as a stage manager, this show will be different every night or kind of, um, that makes me glitch.
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Yeah, yeah, totally totally But for um it's like, you're like, great.
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It sounds, it sounds.
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come on Um, so did mcbeth at the donmar just before christmas which is going back into the west end this year also uses headphones binaural sound Lots of sound effects lots of voice treatments and stuff like that But that was on the basis of okay, but let's do the same show every night crazy Um Um, and, and so that we did in a more traditional approach with, you know, it's all in the same order.
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We're going to do this queue, then that queue, all that kind of stuff.
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mean, it's Shakespeare.
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We can't fuck with it no, no.
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Well, you can, but, uh, but yeah, so yeah, so that was much more linear.
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So there, you know, Actually, it was trickier to tech because we were dealing with, well, we, you know, we had a cast of 12 where there were four musicians.
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We had, there was a soundproof box that the musicians were in.
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Sometimes there was a soundproof second area that some of the actors were in.
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Sometimes we had DSM, you know, all the usual departments.
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So actually.
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There we were having to communicate and coordinate with a lot more people and we were doing it in a more linear fashion so there that coordination became uh more complex and And so for that, for example, we gave the dsm a microphone and a switch panel so that she could, you know, choose whether her microphone spoke to just the sound operator, or if it spoke to just the musician's in ear monitors, or if it went to the full back speakers onto the stage, or if it went to the audience headphones, which is what all the devices do.
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Director team and everybody else was listening on And then I had a similar switch box and likewise laura the sound operator So you need to get a lot more sort of granular about who you want to communicate with at any one point And all the headphone systems have to be split up to allow that Yeah, it's and it's a different different way of working and You to be And for the lighting team, they're, you know, less interested.
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They want to get the general idea of the soundtrack, but, um, aren't listening to the detail of it so much.
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So, you know, we fed it into the can systems so that they could have the show in one ear and, you know, their comms in the other ear so that he could, um, tech, you know, and still communicate.
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Well, of working.,
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what you're saying about Viola's House and The Encounter, there just has to be that openness to go, this isn't going to be like the way that we tech kind of, you know, standard theatre.
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Everyone has to be, particularly stage management, have to just be a bit more open minded to it.
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And again, and I think it's one of the interesting things about theater and and why we're still doing theater thousands of years after it was sort of invented is it keeps evolving and You know not to this opera Particularly single out opera.
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But yeah that yeah that that feel you know a lot of opera feels a little bit stuck in An opera mode of 50 years ago.
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Yeah, some parts of it definitely evolving There are lots of exciting and interesting people doing opera not to sing opera but it's certainly very challenging to do from a sound point of view.
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Anyway, um Tangent But yes, you know theater keeps evolving and embracing new technologies and new ways of working and you know the theater that we do now is unrecognizable from a hundred years ago, whether that's, you know, the use of video or the use of radio mics, you know, the style of acting is completely different now from a hundred years ago.
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And that was completely different from a hundred years before that.
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And, you know, it, the, it keeps evolving.
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And so the way we make theater keeps evolving.
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Yeah.
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Because I wanted to refer back to, something that you said earlier.
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You said that, you always wanted to stay interested in what you were doing.
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Because I remember when we worked together at The Gate, you'd just done the opening ceremony for the 2012.
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Yes.
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And then a few weeks later, you were sat with me in the Gate Theatre, which seats, what, like, 70? At a push.
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totally.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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You know, I remember thinking like, because I knew, I knew who you were and I knew what you'd just done.
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And I was like, Oh my God, like what, why is he now like here in, in Notting Hill in a room above a pub with me? This is amazing.
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This is amazing.
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But I think what I.
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But I sort of knew back then that what, what drives you is going, Oh, this project is interesting.
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Me.
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Yeah, it's it's very rare that i'm like, oh I want to work in that venue or on that scale of thing It's more often driven by the story or the people to work with and and That's that those are the interesting things and I think one of the interesting things I found about doing Like the 2012 opening ceremony and other bigger gigs I always had this misconception when I was like starting out and working in fringe that this sort of chaotic last minute Adrenaline fueled thing was unique to not having much money or much time And even i've discovered when you have a lot of money and a lot of time.
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It's still chaotic adrenaline fueled You chaotic madness where stuff is happening at the last minute and You know you're doing stuff for the first time in front of audience that you've never done before It happens on every level so in a way there is no difference between doing a show at the gate and doing the opening ceremony that You know, some things are very different, but yeah, it's so, it's really interesting that you say that because I remember like when I started working out in Fringe and, you know, finding like, you know, stuff really stressful and hard or like people not following basic theatre etiquette, you know, like taking coffee and stage and stuff.
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And I was like, when I've been doing this a long time, when I'm at the National Theatre, Mm hmm And then get into the National Theatre and be like, nope, certainly the same.
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Exactly the same.
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Yes.
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Yeah, Um, and, uh, and you are, of course, married to a stage manager as well.
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So you must get a lot of kind of, you must get kind of a lot of insight in that, in that way.
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I feel that, um, my husband, um, is, uh, a composer and we actually met working on a show.
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And I feel that it's quite interesting sometimes when I go home and, you know, and I'll, well, when I used to work in theater, sort of talk about things that have kind of happened that day.
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And I might kind of moan about creative, but then he's quite good at going, well, you know, helps me sort of see it from a different point of view.
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And I think that I do the same thing for him when he's come home.
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You say, Oh, you know, stage management have said that we have to do this, whatever.
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And I'm like, Well, there's this, there's this thing.
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Do you find that, that, you know, that sort of creative, because, you know, great, great creative and technical relationships happen in the theatre as well.
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But Yeah, as well.
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I've, I, yeah, and the, the last show I was working on, the DSM was also married to a soundie as well.
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And yeah, there were several sort of similar kinds of relationships like that, that I know of.
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I think it's quite, it seems to be quite a common one.
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And yeah, I think that sort of speaks to the, yeah, the closeness of collaboration that often, um, Happens particularly between a DSM and a sound designer or engineer of you know Because it's for for on both counts.
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It's all about sort of the timing and you know integrating What we do into performance and I think, and I think it's one of the interesting things I understand.
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I often talk about when I sort of like talking about how sound and music are different from other design elements, like the, you know, the visual design elements of set and lighting and set and costume and video, like, you know, set lighting.
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Video costume they're all sharing this same visual world as each other and they're there to collaborate with each other Uh, you know, they're all sharing the same visual space if you like whereas sound is in the sonic oral world And it shares its space with the performer's words, you know when we're talking about straight theater Um And, and yeah, this is often why we're sort of, you know, doing sound and rehearsals because we're trying to find how the sound and the performers work together and, you know, the interplay between them.
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And it's often why sound design.
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Sometimes doesn't work if it's added at the last minute because you're trying to effector into a pause that wasn't Rehearsed with there being a sound effect there or you know, you're trying to Chop, you know stop a rhythm that's been established over several weeks of rehearsals to do a sound moment And then restart it and that can you know cause weird sort of shifts to happen Yeah.
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I once made a massive error actually as a, as a DSM on a show, um, where the sound designer, you know, just hadn't been particularly present just cause they'd, you know, forgot lots of projects or whatever during rehearsals or in texts for other shows.
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And but the, um, director kept turning around to me cause it was a show with like lots of bombs and explosions and the director had said to me, we need to sort of mark when the sound effects are happening.
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So I was sort of shouting like.
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bomb gun and but then you know they were all different they were saying like that bomb is going to be far away this bomb is going to be nearby so i was sort of shouting far away bomb and then loud bomb and she was like this isn't working this isn't working we do need to have some sound effects.
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I was asking for these sound effects and they weren't coming and so then I you know, downloaded some rubbish sound effects to start playing and the actors got so used to them.
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And then the sound designer came in and in Yeah.
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was like, what's this? That well, yeah, I'm not a sound designer.
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I'm just, I'm just thrown into it.
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And I was like, I am never doing that again.
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Like, even if you think you're being helpful, just, just, Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah and it's it's a tricky like Because I do a lot of a lot of what I do is sort of adding sound in rehearsals.
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But yeah Due to availability or you know having to pay the mortgage, you know I'm often having to pay the mortgage on a monthly basis.
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So that often involves juggling Multiple projects because you know money pay and all that um And so, yeah, sometimes i'm not around as much as I like and you know so It's a it's a tricky It's a really sort of tricky balancing Act of yeah trying to make sure i'm in rehearsals at exactly the right moment that i'm needed But often I can't be and often it's stage management or very often.
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It's the dsm who's kind of there um You know dealing with that situation collecting that information yeah.
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And we've all, I think in the last 10 years, like a lot of DSMs in the rehearsal room, you know, we all really kind of upped our QLab game because we were there, you know, just having to like add stuff in and raise levels and stuff, you know, it, that, that level of tech was entering rehearsal rooms much, much earlier.
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We all were there watching YouTube.
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Yeah.
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Like, how do I, how do I do this? Or prodding at laptops.
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Yeah, it's, because it is really difficult.
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And I always thought that for designers, you know, spending so much, for lighting designers, sound designers, video designers, just spending so much time in dark rooms for 12 hours a day.
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And not always managing to be in rehearsals and there not being the budget for you necessarily to send associates.
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out, you know, it's, it's difficult.
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It's a really tricky industry.
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And having recently done a role just before I left theater where it was like booking, um, lighting staff and video staff, not having any involvement with sound, but booking, um, you know, like Alex number ones and people to do videos on long running shows and stuff and just finding it really difficult.
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To find the people who have that wealth of knowledge and experience to do these roles.
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Um, because after, you know, after COVID, it just feels like people really kind of left the I think there's been two waves of of people leaving the industry.
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I think certainly during covid understandably, there was a lot of people who just re evaluated their life choices and just like actually You know, I want more better work life balance and all that kind of stuff I think there's been a Another big wave the last sort of 12 18 months as well That's maybe even bigger than the covid wave and And I think I think part because you know a lot of the conversations we had over kovid were about okay How can we sort of build things better after kovid? And of course what's happened is things have actually got worse than better And you know, and there's a lot of reasons for that, you know, there's cost of living crisis there's you know arts cuts there's the conservative government Yeah, there there are a lot of sort of really big global events That are affecting everybody there are a bunch of things that are specifically affecting the theater industry and there are a bunch of things that are specifically affecting freelancers in the theater industry and I think a lot of that has combined to Drive out a lot of people and I think I think the last sort of 12 18 months.
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It's where people who sort of were the reality is crashed home that, you know, things are not getting better post COVID they're not even as good as they always bad as they were pre COVID everything has gotten worse, you know, harder wages on go, you know, the wages that you get haven't risen, but everything else has.
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And so, yeah, I'm.
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So many people I know have left the industry in the last sort of 18 months and that, Yeah, I think you're right that the cost of living crisis probably had a bigger impact than COVID.
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And the biggest thing that I found when trying to staff shows is that so many people don't live in London anymore.
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You know, people who've moved out, which then has an effect on the type of work that they have.
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People also, the touring conditions have got so much worse.
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Like it used to be quite usual for, you know, I don't know, like, Men in their 40s and 50s who did have family at home would still go out and hit the road and stuff.
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And people now are like, no, I'm not doing that.
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I want to stay home I'm yeah, I think a lot more people have sort of gone.
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Yeah, actually I'm not gonna do that anymore and I don't, I don't want to do that, so I'm not going to do that.
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And I, I, you know, I'd rather find something slightly less, less well paid.
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That means I'm at home more than, you know, do that yeah.
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it's, it's it's really, it is really tricky.
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And obviously, you know, when you're doing shows, the, the, you know, you were talking before about the sound operators and the responsibility that they had, they weren't, you know, just, they weren't, When I say just mixing, I always think that mixing anything, whether it's a play or a musical, that is such a very specific skill.
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So before the sound operators come at me, I do really respect that skill, but you know, you're not just like pressing, pressing a button when somebody says go or mixing that type of sound, um, operation, where you have to be, you're so integral to the production and you get, you know, those people that you're employing, you need them to be experienced.
276
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They can't go to, you know, somebody young and experienced and it's just, so it's so, it is, it's just getting so difficult to staff those shows, but you're quite involved or you have been involved in the past with, um, a charity to kind of encourage younger people to get into the arts.
277
00:36:53,294.4668151 --> 00:37:15,364.3668151
Yeah, yeah, I was, uh, yeah, sort of co founded and then was chair of the Association of Sound Designers, now the ASDP, uh, for about six, seven years and, uh, and, and that kind of came about, we were looking at it as in sort of like 2009, 2010.
278
00:37:15,364.4668151 --> 00:37:18,324.4668151
And like the notion of that was.
279
00:37:18,694.4668151 --> 00:37:49,639.4668151
As sound designers, you know, we didn't have a union There was no association that covered us We were just a bunch of disparate freelancers who very you know Because you only really have one sound designer employed on a show at any point We didn't really get chance professionally to talk to each other or you know Share help Have you know peer communities and that kind of thing and that felt like You That was something that would be useful.
280
00:37:49,979.4668151 --> 00:38:06,379.4668151
And so we kind of set up, um, the ASDP, um, and part of that was to kind of create a network for established people, but also to help people get into the industry by sort of providing.
281
00:38:06,379.4668151 --> 00:38:12,809.4668151
Information and training and networking opportunities and all those kind of things.
282
00:38:13,129.4668151 --> 00:38:19,829.4658151
And that's sort of, that's proved massively more popular than anybody ever envisaged.
283
00:38:19,899.4658151 --> 00:39:14,314.4678151
And like the need and the desire for it is, And I was looking back at this a few months ago and I found a spreadsheet from when we set up and it was like a trying to project how big The asd might get and it's just there's not that many people doing sound design full time so You know, maybe we'll get to 150 members tops and and of course and what we've done is Expanded the membership so it's not just for sound designers now, but even before that You You know, we were You know within a few years up in the sort of five six hundreds the membership now is over a thousand people and yeah, this is 99 percent of them a uk based because there are a lot of people who Don't do sound design full time.
284
00:39:14,314.4678151 --> 00:39:22,664.4668152
They do it part time You know, we also opened it up to sort of all sound professionals or people wanting to become a professional Mm.
285
00:39:22,884.4678151 --> 00:39:27,14.4678151
And yeah, I've run lots of seminars and training and network events.
286
00:39:27,14.4678151 --> 00:39:29,164.4678151
And that's, yeah, like the.
287
00:39:30,339.4678151 --> 00:40:11,674.4678151
I think that's made the industry a lot a much better place for everybody like we're all sort of it It feels less like when I entered the industry it felt quite competitive and everybody had their trains trade secrets about how they did things And now it feels more like everybody's trying to help each other out and it feels more like You know, we're all building on each other's you know experiences and You Acquired knowledge and stuff like that, which, which is sort of doubly what makes it sad when a lot of these people now leaving the industry is that, you know, a lot of that acquired experiences disappearing.
288
00:40:12,194.4678151 --> 00:41:36,64.4678152
you know, when, A group of people leave the industry in theory that makes space for more people to come into the industry in theory that should improve the accessibility of Of the industry which is you know, something we've been striving to do for for many many years but I think the way it's happened is that it means that a lot of people who are not so experienced are being placed into higher roles than they have the experience level to deal with and i'm not talking about technically it's more the political and sort of um people experience levels because ultimately at the end of the day sound is a very subjective thing and so a lot of time you're dealing with other people's subjective assessment of What your sound is like and whether it's good or bad or different from last night and why is it different from last night? um And so a lot of the time You know doing sound it's it's a very sort of political job in And a lot about sort of building trust and relationships and It's having, it's having that emotional intelligence, that, which just comes with age and experience.
289
00:41:36,114.4678152 --> 00:41:57,384.4678152
And yeah, exactly Yeah So i've had a few times of late where you know, because we've not been able to find You know because the very experienced people have left certain job roles now less experienced people are being put into Job roles that I wouldn't necessarily have considered them for no.
290
00:41:57,739.4668151 --> 00:42:02,74.3678152
in the past And it's not their fault either, if they're not doing a great job.
291
00:42:02,254.4678152 --> 00:42:02,824.4678152
job.
292
00:42:03,264.4678152 --> 00:42:07,424.4678152
Um, you know, and, and then what happens is they go, Oh my God, this is too hard.
293
00:42:07,484.4678152 --> 00:42:11,534.4678152
And so actually we get to a point where all the really experienced people have gone, actually I'm done with this.
294
00:42:11,564.4668152 --> 00:42:39,709.4678152
And then even the lesser experienced people are also going, Oh my God, this is just too, this is just too It's it's either it's either setting them up to fail or setting them up to have very traumatic experiences that You know, then even make them leave the industry or make them not want to do that job or you know It's not good for anybody So yeah, it's it's I feel like we're in a very tricky Time at the moment Yes, winning from this I know, I know.
295
00:42:39,739.4678152 --> 00:42:41,209.4678152
It's, it's really hard.
296
00:42:41,359.4678152 --> 00:42:47,729.4678152
And, the only hope that I can sort of have is that maybe we'll see some sort of shift with a new government.
297
00:42:47,734.4678152 --> 00:42:58,559.4678152
I hope, uh, you know, I, I'm not expecting Kia Star to click his fingers and save the industry, but I really hope that, that maybe there's a bit of a.
298
00:42:58,984.4678152 --> 00:43:03,554.4678152
You know, a light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not a train coming in the opposite direction.
299
00:43:03,564.4678152 --> 00:43:07,4.4678152
Hopefully it is, you know, there's a bit of a, there's a bit of a new dawn.
300
00:43:07,434.4678152 --> 00:43:12,94.4678152
Um, you talked to, you know, a lot, a bit earlier about, um, you know, paying the mortgage.
301
00:43:12,394.4678152 --> 00:43:22,249.4678152
And sometimes I feel that, um, there isn't an element of, Designers, uh, in, in all departments can sometimes spread themselves too thin.
302
00:43:22,549.4678152 --> 00:43:35,59.4678152
And, sometimes I find that quite often when people are like running late for texts or coming back from lunch breaks or whatever, it's because they were in production meetings for other shows or, you know, doing all that stuff.
303
00:43:35,59.4678152 --> 00:43:35,909.4678152
It's a constant juggle.
304
00:43:36,139.4678152 --> 00:43:41,319.4678152
Also, by the way, can you imagine that we actually used to, people used to attend production meetings.
305
00:43:41,634.4678152 --> 00:43:43,654.4678152
in person in lunch breaks and stuff.
306
00:43:43,654.4678152 --> 00:43:45,714.4678152
When I look back at that time, I think it's really mad.
307
00:43:45,714.4678152 --> 00:44:02,34.4678152
It's like, what were we all doing? yeah, yeah yeah I so many times would be like i'm going to travel into london specially for this production meeting You know two and a half hours in to do a meeting And two and a half hours, you know Yeah, so mad.
308
00:44:02,84.4678152 --> 00:44:13,594.4688152
What were we all doing? Anyway, I feel that sometimes when people in like your kind of position, where that when they are late to stuff, it's for that reason, because they, they've got so many projects because they're trying to pay a mortgage.
309
00:44:13,594.4688152 --> 00:44:15,284.4688152
So my question to you.
310
00:44:15,284.4688152 --> 00:44:17,234.4688152
is, are you prompt? Gareth Fry.
311
00:44:17,754.4688151 --> 00:44:23,944.4688152
no, I am the the least prompt person in the world Hey, I've been waiting for somebody to say that.
312
00:44:24,254.4688151 --> 00:44:30,224.4688151
Notoriously late for everything ever I I did I did.
313
00:44:30,274.4688151 --> 00:44:32,564.4688151
Um I remember tweeting.
314
00:44:32,574.4688151 --> 00:44:33,724.4688151
I think it was last year.
315
00:44:33,764.4678151 --> 00:45:04,599.4688151
I think it was around october uh, I think I arrived early for something and The you know, the person I was meeting wasn't there I just became aware that this was maybe only the second time in the year that that had happened where I was before the other person So no, I am the least prompt person in the world often it is because I am running from some other thing or Try and yeah, I can blame the transport a little bit.
316
00:45:04,599.4688151 --> 00:45:29,59.4688152
But um, I read I read something about people who are late have sort of become addicted to the adrenaline of leaving at the last minute and making their journey into a adrenaline fueled Thing of will I make it on time or not? And I think I I know I have a little bit of adrenaline junkie in me So instead of like, you're an adrenaline junkie, it just comes out in, um, you know, you're not jumping out of planes.
317
00:45:29,59.4688152 --> 00:45:46,404.4688151
You're just like, will the Piccadilly line get me Exactly exactly exactly Yeah, totally I used to jump out of planes, but no now Well, I did it once I used to be very into all me extreme sports when I was a youngster, but not Really? I didn't know that about you.
318
00:45:46,634.4688152 --> 00:45:47,284.4688151
Gosh.
319
00:45:47,399.4688151 --> 00:45:47,839.4688151
Yeah.
320
00:45:48,229.4688151 --> 00:45:48,639.4688151
Yeah.
321
00:45:48,714.4688152 --> 00:45:51,434.4688152
And so, now you just get, now you just get to places late.
322
00:45:52,549.4688151 --> 00:45:53,449.4688151
Yeah, totally.
323
00:45:53,729.4688151 --> 00:45:54,109.4688151
Yeah.
324
00:45:54,769.4688151 --> 00:45:55,219.4688151
Yeah.
325
00:45:55,559.4678151 --> 00:45:59,779.4688151
I'm a very, uh, procrastination is, is a big part of my world.
326
00:46:00,349.4678151 --> 00:46:10,89.4688151
I do a lot of, um, creative procrastination of, you know, doing another task that I'm supposed to be doing in order to avoid the task I'm supposed to be doing sooner.
327
00:46:11,104.4688152 --> 00:46:11,954.4688151
Fascinating.
328
00:46:11,964.4688152 --> 00:46:22,234.4688151
I'm really glad that you, because I've said for a long time now, I'm like, when is somebody going to come on who admits that they're late to everything? Because everybody comes on and says, Oh no, no, I'm very, I'm very prompt.
329
00:46:22,254.4688152 --> 00:46:22,984.4688151
I'm always on time.
330
00:46:22,984.4688151 --> 00:46:26,544.4688152
And I was like, when is somebody going to say I'm just endlessly late? And so thank you.
331
00:46:26,734.4688151 --> 00:46:27,824.4688151
endlessly late.
332
00:46:27,904.4688151 --> 00:47:40,229.4678151
It is a constant frustration to everybody I work with I'm sure Yeah, would I? Oh, thing the awards they're not um Like they're very good for the self esteem, but they're not actually useful for for like work I can remember like the first first award I got and And I all my work dried up after that And I had to ring round all the all the like the people I normally worked with and they're like Oh, I thought now you'd won an olivier that you'd be too big to work with us You'd have all these other job offers in and I was like No, and I I think that was the interesting thing um Like with the tony awards I was like, oh this you know, you know Just be interesting because I don't really I've done quite a lot of stuff in america, but it's typically with british companies taking work over there or stuff like that So it's just like, you know, i've won i've won a tony award now.
333
00:47:40,229.4678151 --> 00:47:53,339.4688151
I wonder if this will be nice to get lots of offers to design jobs on broadway and It didn't happen totally didn't happen I think I got one job offer for a show that didn't go anywhere.
334
00:47:53,879.4688152 --> 00:47:54,859.4683152
wonder if that's the same thing.
335
00:47:54,859.4683152 --> 00:47:56,709.4683152
People go, oh, well, he's just won a Tony now.
336
00:47:56,709.4683152 --> 00:47:59,209.4688152
So there's no point in even ringing him.
337
00:47:59,279.4688151 --> 00:48:21,939.4678152
yeah, maybe so where, where are they in your house? There i've got them on the ikea expedit thing over in the corner of my office Um, yeah Um mistakes happen a lot in theatre.
338
00:48:21,979.4688152 --> 00:48:26,199.4688152
And I think that they can be brilliant things that we should embrace.
339
00:48:26,199.4688152 --> 00:48:32,209.4688152
And there can be like this culture of kind of, you know, trying to pass blame over to other departments.
340
00:48:32,934.4688152 --> 00:48:33,524.4688152
Happens all the time.
341
00:48:33,534.4688152 --> 00:48:34,664.4688152
No one wants to be in the show report.
342
00:48:35,64.4688152 --> 00:48:40,24.4688152
Um, and so I just like having people come on and talk about their mistakes.
343
00:48:40,364.4688152 --> 00:48:48,234.4678151
Um, it's kind of interesting actually sort of coming at it, because usually I'm talking to people who are, uh, performers or stage managers.
344
00:48:48,244.4688152 --> 00:48:52,584.4678152
So it's a bit, I guess it's a bit different for you coming at it from a creative, um, angle.
345
00:48:52,584.4678152 --> 00:49:02,234.4678151
But what is your biggest mistake that you would like to own up to? The biggest mistake, there's lots of like sort of mini faux pas.
346
00:49:02,244.4688151 --> 00:49:37,794.4688151
I'm terrible at remembering names and faces and people and I Make at least one major faux pas on that a month but Mistake wise I think it was doing a show called let the right one in at the royal court It was about a month after my son was born And sleep was not a big thing at that time And the show has this big Big, really loud musical finale movement sequence It all takes place in a swimming pool.
347
00:49:37,919.4678151 --> 00:49:45,149.4678151
yeah, she comes in and murders all these bullies in a swimming pool and for, for the theater version, that was like a four minute.
348
00:49:46,319.4688151 --> 00:50:11,614.4688151
Very loud music section with some Movement stuff happening underneath that as everybody gets murdered And during the afternoon There were various whooshes and sound effects happening over the top of the music during the afternoon Of tech I had muted the music in qlab in order to work on the levels of some of the sound effects God.
349
00:50:11,664.4688151 --> 00:50:17,189.4688151
And You I remember being sat in the back row of the royal court in the stalls.
350
00:50:17,619.4688151 --> 00:50:32,199.3688151
Um, and the finale sequence started and I heard the first sound effect and I didn't hear the music and I knew immediately that I'd left the four minute music sequence muted in QLab.
351
00:50:32,199.4688151 --> 00:50:44,149.4688151
I heard the telltale click of the sound operator swapping over to the backup machine where we had faithfully backed up the show file with the muted music into that so that was silent as well.
352
00:50:45,9.4688151 --> 00:50:45,949.4688151
And I sort of.
353
00:50:47,119.4688151 --> 00:51:04,9.4678151
And in the Royal Court, the sound operating position is in the upper circle, two levels up, so I stood up, shuffled my way along the back row, excusing myself in a very quiet auditorium, and then sprinted up like the six flights of stairs.
354
00:51:05,424.4688151 --> 00:51:13,684.4688151
Had to sidle past the very awkward Routine there to get to the sound operating position.
355
00:51:13,714.4688151 --> 00:51:43,249.4688151
I that took Three minutes 45 seconds to do And I got there just as the sequence Finished and just like oh fuck And the the poor actors on stage did They faithfully did their whole movement sequence without the music um looking like absolute lemmings and So yes, i've i've Immediately the show this was right at the end.
356
00:51:43,249.4688151 --> 00:51:54,649.4688152
So yeah went and very humbly apologized to the director went and found the actors profusely to them and Oh, bless you.
357
00:51:54,709.4688152 --> 00:51:56,859.4688152
That's, that's horrible, in that moment.
358
00:51:56,889.4688152 --> 00:52:01,419.4678152
And of course, something like that, you know, you wouldn't have picked it up in a sound check.
359
00:52:01,789.4688152 --> 00:52:13,309.4688152
Or whatever, like why, why would you, if you've just muted one cue and everybody on hand's going, oh my god, because in that moment, I guess, as a sound job, you're going, this must be me, like what, I've, I've done something.
360
00:52:13,349.4688152 --> 00:52:21,799.3688151
So it was also probably quite a relief to go, it was Tony award winning sound Yeah Yeah.
361
00:52:21,799.4688151 --> 00:52:22,229.4688151
Yeah.
362
00:52:22,599.4688151 --> 00:52:59,684.4678151
I'm like I think I I do i'm a really big advocate of owning up to your mistakes and taking responsibility for them I think it's like I think it is It's very trust building for the people that you're working with if you own up to your mistakes rather than um, try and fob them off onto oh, it was a technical problem or somebody else's fault or like I think, you know, there's, there's a lot of trust to be earned from how you respond to his mistake as, you know, cause we all make mistakes.
363
00:52:59,684.4688151 --> 00:53:01,204.4688151
We all mess things up.
364
00:53:01,204.4688151 --> 00:53:06,104.4678151
I think that's perfectly normal and typically pretty excusable.
365
00:53:06,474.4688151 --> 00:53:15,974.4688151
And it's, um, I think, yeah, the, the typically the way we judge people is how they respond to the mistakes they've made.
366
00:53:15,974.4688151 --> 00:53:16,754.4678151
And, yeah.
367
00:53:17,599.4688151 --> 00:53:32,529.4688151
Like, you know, when the rail system fucks up because of one thing or another, it's usually their excuse of leaves on the line that drives me up the wall rather than the lack of the trains.
368
00:53:32,529.5688151 --> 00:53:39,419.4688151
And I think that's true with, you know, making mistakes, you know, I've more, I've been infuriated by people.
369
00:53:40,114.4688151 --> 00:53:53,314.4688152
So clearly lying about why something has happened why why they've made the mistake than by the mistake itself And so yeah, I learned from that much better to own up and Yeah.
370
00:53:53,534.4688152 --> 00:54:14,464.4688152
And I think for, you know, for somebody of your status to, to do that and to own up and also not just going, you know, in notes afterwards saying to the director, I'm really sorry that was me like actually going in and, you know, to tell the actors that I said sorry or whatever, like going in and doing a face to face to apology and saying, you know, this is, this is why that happened.
371
00:54:14,524.5678151 --> 00:54:15,664.3688151
Yeah.
372
00:54:15,664.4688151 --> 00:55:19,739.4678151
I think I do remember I kind of what what did I do? I remember had there was some other Problem on a show and I was like to the director Can I come into the note session with the cast tomorrow so I can apologize to them face to face? and that was you know That was really useful not just in terms of you know, them hearing an apology But in terms of building up a relationship like on that show that you know There were lots of radio mics and there was lots of stuff happening because people weren't doing what they were supposed to do so that mistake or that apology became uh an opportunity to Build that relationship back up between the performers and the sound department and re establish some of the things that had gone awry there and Because out of all the departments, I've thought about this a lot with, um, the trust that has to happen between sound department and actors, not just about what's happening on stage with mics and everything.
373
00:55:20,79.4678151 --> 00:55:34,814.4678151
Because everybody is mic'd up from the half or whatever, and everyone's walking around backstage and in their dressing rooms and chatting, and the sound op at any given point can put their headphones on and bring somebody's mic up and just listen to what they're saying.
374
00:55:34,844.4678151 --> 00:55:44,924.4668151
And I, and all the sound soundings I've ever spoken to, you know, cause they do, they just like literally at the five or whatever I think it is that, you know, they put their headphones on, they just do a quick, like, can I hear everybody? Yes, I can.
375
00:55:45,504.4678151 --> 00:55:50,929.4678151
And I was like, Do you, are you not never tempted to just keep listening? And they were like, absolutely not.
376
00:55:50,979.4678151 --> 00:55:52,939.4678151
I would, I would never.
377
00:55:52,969.4678151 --> 00:56:10,659.4678151
And I was thinking, gosh, if I was walking around backstage knowing that I was, you know, mic'd up and that there was somebody at the desk who could listen at any point, you know, going to the toilet, what you're talking about, like it's, you have to, you have to really have trust that somebody isn't just going to listen to you doing that.
378
00:56:11,299.4678151 --> 00:56:11,809.4678151
Yeah.
379
00:56:11,809.5678151 --> 00:56:12,47.0428151
Yeah.
380
00:56:12,47.0428151 --> 00:56:13,709.3678151
I'm not going to lie to you.
381
00:56:14,649.4678151 --> 00:57:08,964.4678151
Establishing that trust is is like the paramount thing with radio mics and I was really I was doing a show last year with um a couple of performers who'd predominantly done a lot of tv work and Uh, and they both asked me separately independently of each other will my mics Be turned off when I go off stage, you know when I exit the stage and I was like And for me, that was such a obvious thing, like, of course, you know, your mic is only ever turned on when you were saying a line or you're on stage reacting to somebody else's line, hopefully, um, and, you know, we always, you know, turn your mic off for the cleanness of the mix that the audience are hearing as much as for anything else.
382
00:57:09,319.4678151 --> 00:57:25,29.4678151
But yeah, and we always turn your mic off when you walk off stage um but it occurred to me that yeah, that's something that isn't necessarily the case if you're doing film or tv production because You know your mic is on you're not being mixed in the same way.
383
00:57:25,29.4678151 --> 00:58:14,729.4673151
You're being recorded It's a you know, it's a recording process rather than a performance process And quite often on a film set your mic is being sent to lots of people's headphones and lots of different speakers around You know, it might be sent to the costume department who might be 100 and 100 meters away from the set because that's the only place they could park their truck or whatever um and so on Yeah, it was a really interesting thing that they had sort of they were coming from a place where they didn't have that You Faith and trust and And so, you know on that gig I had to do a lot of confidence building about you know microphones and what we were doing and The fact that you know, they're only ever on for this.
384
00:58:14,729.4673151 --> 00:58:44,884.4668151
We don't listen in to them Yeah, we'll do a five second check at the half to make sure or you know at the five to make sure they're working But you know, we're we're not And yeah Some people generally have got more things to do than to spend half an hour listening on somebody's idle gossip about Love Island, but, um, but yeah, I think having that that building that trust is paramount.
385
00:58:45,74.4658151 --> 00:58:49,934.4668151
It's the most important thing if you don't have the trust of the performers, they won't.
386
00:58:50,419.4668151 --> 01:00:22,689.4668151
Sing well And you know, they'll they'll sing differently um on like on a musical particularly it's so key because you know on because often on a musical 99 of the sound is from a live source whether that's somebody singing or talking or instrument and those are all played by People at different volumes depending on how loud they sing or how hard they Bow the violin or hit the drum kit or whatever and how loud they Sing or the intensity with which they sing or perform is entirely based on their confidence And if they don't feel and when they're alone on stage that confidence comes from Hearing the other people around them or hearing the musicians or hearing themselves to a degree and You It takes very little for that confidence to get knocked and then the whole thing can come crashing down I know I know I know shows where They've had to replace an entire sound team because The confidence had been lost in the sound department And and that was due to the interpersonal relationships and that was affecting the sound of the show so badly that Ultimately the only way to to do it was to change the show gosh.
387
01:00:23,104.4668151 --> 01:00:35,174.4668151
around and sort of rebuild the confidence up Yeah, and as we've just talked about, it's not an easy thing to do in this day and age, to just replace an entire sound team, even if you wanted to, it would be, it'd be a really tricky thing.
388
01:00:35,424.4668151 --> 01:00:53,194.4668151
But yeah, it's so, yeah, the relationship between sound and cast is a lot of things that you've actually said I've never really thought about before, just how nuanced and sensitive it is in a way that it's probably not with like, lighting and video because it's so closely linked to.
389
01:00:53,564.4668151 --> 01:00:54,364.4668151
their voices.
390
01:00:54,714.4668151 --> 01:01:04,334.4668151
Um, and, and also that thing of the, the physical thing of, you know, having your radio mics fitted, you know, when just, just having people just be so close to you physically.
391
01:01:04,364.4668151 --> 01:01:10,514.4658151
It's, um, yeah, it's a lot of responsibility and you need people to kind of have those, um, have those chops.
392
01:01:10,804.4668151 --> 01:01:22,74.4668151
It's really interesting what you were just saying before about, um, you know, TV, because I actually didn't realize this until I was researching you for the interview, but you did the sound design for the CBeebies Pantos.
393
01:01:22,664.4668151 --> 01:01:31,894.4668152
Yes Which I'm completely obsessed with because every, every Christmas we have to watch them all in like chronological order that they were.
394
01:01:32,214.4668152 --> 01:01:40,694.4668152
And I'm kind of fascinated with them because I do think that the, the CBeebies company, they are like the last remaining rep.
395
01:01:41,399.4668152 --> 01:01:43,399.4668152
theatre company in this country.
396
01:01:43,459.4668152 --> 01:02:03,424.4668152
It's just, it's just really fascinating and interesting and I suppose in, in that sense how, you know, working with a lot of people who are predominantly television presenters and then putting them in amazing theatres, the Crucible and um, having to do sound design for a show, but that is also to, but that is mostly going to be seen by people on television.
397
01:02:03,604.4668151 --> 01:02:12,854.4668151
Yeah that must be quite tricky, Yeah, and I did yeah, I did about four or five of those and they I really enjoyed doing them They were some of the funnest gigs i've done.
398
01:02:12,864.4668151 --> 01:02:21,924.4668152
It was yeah Be so, you know essentially making a 45 minute musical with which is how long all musicals should be.
399
01:02:22,314.4668151 --> 01:02:35,244.4668151
Yeah, exactly um, and There's a lot, many months of creative prep for the story and the songs being written and everything like that.
400
01:02:36,164.4668151 --> 01:02:43,694.4668151
The actual putting it on his feet is, was between five and eight days of rehearsal a day and a half of tech.
401
01:02:43,694.4668151 --> 01:02:48,694.4668151
And then you're into doing, you know, full performances and then you're done.
402
01:02:49,394.4668151 --> 01:02:50,84.4668151
And.
403
01:02:50,889.4668151 --> 01:02:52,349.4668151
I think we sort of nail.
404
01:02:52,379.4668151 --> 01:02:52,709.4668151
Yeah.
405
01:02:52,709.4668151 --> 01:02:56,689.4668151
And we sort of kind of nailed the process down over a few years.
406
01:02:56,689.4668151 --> 01:03:15,139.3668151
Cause I think previous as I got brought on board with a director, um, and previously to us coming on board, um, previous to Christmas Carol, it had been done by sort of TV people essentially, and they hadn't done it before.
407
01:03:15,639.4668151 --> 01:03:23,119.4668151
They weren't giving themselves enough time to do it and everything was a bit shonky and so we sort of Were like, okay.
408
01:03:23,119.4668151 --> 01:03:41,279.4668152
Let's Let's make a show that is great for a theater audience and then film it Rather than make something that looks good on tv And hope an audience will like it as well um And I think that was sort of key to its success They're just, they're fantastic.
409
01:03:41,349.4668152 --> 01:03:44,589.4668152
Sorry, I just went off piece to bit because I really wanted to ask you about that.
410
01:03:44,869.4668152 --> 01:03:48,459.4668152
Um, so I'm going to finish up with my very final question that we ask everybody.
411
01:03:48,889.4658152 --> 01:04:01,379.4668152
Um, if you got made autistic director of the National Theatre and making a sound designer, autistic director of the National Theatre would be a bold choice, but imagine that that's something that they did.
412
01:04:01,649.4668151 --> 01:04:01,879.4668151
Yep.
413
01:04:01,909.4668151 --> 01:04:02,279.4668151
Yep.
414
01:04:02,509.4668151 --> 01:04:11,139.4668152
I'll be up for it what is something that you would do, and that could be a show that you'd stage, somebody you'd cast, something you'd serve.
415
01:04:11,449.4668152 --> 01:04:12,9.4668152
in the bar.
416
01:04:12,19.4668152 --> 01:04:56,634.4668151
Would you just make them do radio plays? I think I would either demolish the olivier theater or turn it into a car park I think and i'd maybe turn the car park into a theater Because I think the olivier is a terrible performance space The car park that they've got is really bad So I think turning the olivier into a car park would be would solve two problems in one Go and yeah, maybe use the car existing car park as a They they set up um once they were redoing doing some works They set up the shed which was like their temporary theater outside, which was like One of their best performance spaces and it's like okay get rid of the olivier.
417
01:04:56,664.4678151 --> 01:05:02,139.4668152
It's shit Okay, that's going to be the quote that I put across.
418
01:05:02,139.5668152 --> 01:05:12,39.4668152
Ah, Gareth Fry, that was such a brilliant conversation and I loved how we ended it.
419
01:05:12,329.4668152 --> 01:05:14,129.4668152
That was, uh, that was great.
420
01:05:14,169.4668152 --> 01:05:19,889.4668152
Some very sage okay Yeah the Yeah Brilliant.
421
01:05:19,929.4668152 --> 01:05:20,939.4668152
Thank you so much.
422
01:05:21,24.4668151 --> 01:05:21,484.4668151
Pleasure.
423
01:05:26,580.0501485 --> 01:05:31,920.0501485
That was the lovely Gareth fry, um, such a nice man and so interesting.
424
01:05:32,400.0501485 --> 01:05:35,760.0501485
Um, and I really enjoyed having a chat with him.
425
01:05:35,760.0501485 --> 01:05:43,620.0501485
Sometimes I feel like, uh, you know, the first kind of half hour of chat is warming up and then you have the second half hour, and then I'm like, I can't keep them any longer.
426
01:05:43,650.0501485 --> 01:05:44,430.0501485
That's ridiculous.
427
01:05:44,790.0501485 --> 01:05:48,120.0501485
Um, but actually I could sort of, I just want to keep talking to them.
428
01:05:48,810.0501485 --> 01:05:50,310.0501485
I just want it to keep going.
429
01:05:50,850.0501485 --> 01:05:54,180.0501485
Um, so yeah, it was, it was a really fun chat if you enjoyed that.
430
01:05:54,300.0501485 --> 01:05:59,670.0501485
Um, please do feel free to rate or share, uh, the podcast.
431
01:05:59,970.0501485 --> 01:06:01,710.0501485
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432
01:06:02,40.0501485 --> 01:06:06,0.0501485
Uh, prompt underscore podcast, or you can follow my own personal account.
433
01:06:06,0.0501485 --> 01:06:06,930.0501485
Jess, Lucy brunch.
434
01:06:07,290.0501485 --> 01:06:10,140.0501485
Um, you can also follow me on Twitter at.
435
01:06:10,350.0501485 --> 01:06:11,250.0501485
Girl in the dark.
436
01:06:11,520.0501485 --> 01:06:15,360.0501485
Um, and you can email me, prompts the podcast@gmail.com.
437
01:06:15,390.0501485 --> 01:06:16,680.0501485
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438
01:06:16,710.0501485 --> 01:06:17,310.0501485
They're so fun.
439
01:06:17,520.0501485 --> 01:06:19,380.0501485
I hope you all have a brilliant.
440
01:06:19,740.0501485 --> 01:06:20,640.0501485
Uh, week.
441
01:06:20,880.0501485 --> 01:06:24,300.0501485
And if you're a parent, I hope you are enjoying the start of the summer holidays.
442
01:06:24,450.0501485 --> 01:06:24,930.0501485
Like me.
443
01:06:25,230.0501485 --> 01:06:25,800.0501485
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444
01:06:25,830.0501485 --> 01:06:26,250.0501485
Bye.