Profit follows process: turning brushwork into a scalable, data-driven company

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Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
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The mission of this podcast is simple: to help you navigate the financial and tax aspects of starting, running, and scaling a professional painting business.
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From the brushes and ladders to the spreadsheets and balance sheets, we've got you covered.
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But before we dive in, a quick word of caution.
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While we strive to provide accurate and up-to-date financial and tax information, nothing you hear on this podcast should be considered as financial advice, specifically for you or your business.
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We're here to share general knowledge and experiences, not to replace the tailored advice you get from a professional financial advisor or tax consultant.
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We strongly recommend you seeking individualized advice before making any significant financial decision.
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Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast, the show where painting contractors learn how to boost profits, cut taxes, and build a business that works for them.
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I'm your host, Daniel Honan, CPA, former painting business owner, and your guide to mastering the numbers that drive success.
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So let's dive in and make your business more profitable one episode at a time.
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I'm super excited today to have Jay Mason out of Utah.
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How's it going, Jay?
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Doing wonderful.
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Thank you for having me, Daniel.
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Absolutely.
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No, I'm super excited to get into things.
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I know you've you've built a pretty uh formidable business.
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So um, could you kind of give folks an understanding of where where you got started, how you got started in the painting industry, and what have been some major milestones along the way?
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Yeah, no, thank you.
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Uh uh I have kind of a interesting story of how I got involved in the paint industry.
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My my dad worked 46 years for Sherman Williams, and so I grew up around paint stores and also painting contractors.
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Uh, my dad, as kids, would involve us with overnight sales trips.
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And I remember probably being 10 to 12 years of age, walking job sites with a hard hat on, and you know, just seeing kind of how painters did things.
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And uh, I guess, you know, it was impressionable upon myself.
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And so at 16, I begged for a job to work with Sherwin Williams as well.
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And so I spent my first 13 years learning the industry from the the Sherman Williams angle.
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And so I worked in at, you know, as a store manager and then last four years as an outside salesperson at Sherwin.
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And then I guess I like to say I got smart and decided to go on the contracting side of it, but kind of in a unique way, I was recruited away from Sherwin Williams by uh a painting franchise organization and spent two years there training their new franchise owners on how to run and operate painting businesses, um, following systems and processes and things of the sort.
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And so that's how I really got more introduced to the contracting end of it.
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And then 10 and a half years ago started Paint Easy and uh we are in the franchising space as well.
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And and so yeah, it's uh it's it's been uh an interesting ride, you know, uh starting off with the Sherm Williams side of things and learning the business more from the technical standpoint of codings, and then over the last you know 12 years doing learning it more from the contracting side of it, following a lot of systems and processes.
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That's awesome.
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Yeah, that's that's a pretty cool story.
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So you've seen the industry from a lot of different perspectives.
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You started out in Shur Williams, ran Shuri Williams store as a manager, um, worked for another franchise or and then now you have your own franchise where you've, I'm sure, dug into the details of each location at some point or another.
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And I think you guys, you have a uh, if I'm not mistaken, uh at least a couple dozen, maybe a few dozen uh locations across the U.S.
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at this point, right?
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Yeah, we have we currently have 76 locations with 62 owners across the country and average growing three to four new locations monthly.
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And so yeah, we're able to really analyze um the business from various marketplaces as also with various uh backgrounds coming into the industry and and really helping them learn the paint business from a technical standpoint as well.
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That's awesome.
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So I'm you know, this this year, uh I'm just curious that this uh this has come up a lot.
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2025 has seen has been a little bit of a weird year for a lot of folks.
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And since you've been in the industry for so long and also have so many locations throughout the United States, have you seen that kind of play out as well or have you been seeing something different?
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Yeah, it it has been a weird year.
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Um, I guess we would attribute it, we feel, to you know, kind of the catch-up of normalization from after the COVID rush, things of that.
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We we feel like it's just more of a normalization of what marketplace may look like.
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Um, but there are certain marketplaces.
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Uh, we we have a number of areas of the country where we're having record years.
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We also have certain areas of the country that are down a little bit this year, and so there are certain marketplaces that it's definitely been a little bit more weird or volatile this year than what we've seen in years past as well.
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Yeah, I think that's a good point.
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I think we kind of got you know, 2020 through 2023 kind of got spoiled a little bit in the painting industry, where we kind of expected it just to come so easy.
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And it was great a great time, it's just like crazy on on how easy it was to get work, and I think now we're just coming back down to reality and uh and also there was probably some demand that was pulled forward, you know, folks that did all the work that they needed to do, so they kind of knocked it all out in in those years, and then now there's just less, less they did all the things.
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Um there's probably some of that, but also you know, just um there's just not that as much uh I guess ex funds going around for that sort of those sort of projects.
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So I think you know it's going back to normal, like you said.
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So I think that's a a good analysis.
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Um cool.
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Well, tell me more about uh getting started in the like franchising painting.
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Like why did you start at the franchise level instead of starting your own location?
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What attracted you to starting a franchise?
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Yeah, I I I think the biggest thing was recognizing how important systems and processes are to um the the development of a business.
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Um I I saw it from the other hand, working with Shern Williams and working, you know, at the the when I finally left there, I had roughly a book of business of 350 to 400 contractors that uh I worked with, you know, day in and day out and and whatnot.
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And and there was a couple of things that I individual struggled keeping themselves consistently busy.
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Um, and then they also struggled with either cash flow management or just overall profitability within their business.
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And what I found from the franchising side of things that following a standard set of systems and processes and really just um systemizing the business as much as you possibly can creates a lot better opportunities for consistency and also for profitability within a business.
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And so uh that's what really attracted me more to the franchising route and what's really kept me into the franchising space is just seeing um where you know we we actually take individuals who know nothing about painting, how to paint walls or you know, paint a house for that, you know, better or worse, and we teach them all the the technical parts or the fundamental parts of painting, but really look at it from following systems and processes and more from a business owner mindset versus a tradesperson mindset.
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And really what that does is it allows us to scale the business typically quicker than a lot of other um companies and also shows for more profitability typically as well.
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Yeah.
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So it sounds like you guys have the playbooks to run a painting business.
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You get a business owner, uh, you train them up on the basics, give them the playbooks on how to how to run the business, and that allows them to grow to grow the business a lot more quickly than they would have, you know, on the on their own terms, basically.
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Correct.
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Awesome.
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Um so what do you what do you think like uh could you kind of I know you said you had 76 locations, right?
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Yes, that's correct.
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All right.
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And what is the like the average size of those locations?
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Yeah, so last year average revenue was 742, and uh out of that 742, we had an average net margin of 24.4.
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Um and and and typically what will happen is that we were able to grow that top line revenue over time as the business owners become more and more uh comfortable with the business and learning those systems and processes.
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And so that will typically grow in time as well.
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Yeah.
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Well, that net margin that's really impressive because 24 point 24 percent on a a business that's doing 400, 500,000.
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We we usually recommend 30% ideally, but if you're doing that on average, I mean that's really impressive 24% net profit.
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So that definitely speaks a lot to whatever you're teaching them over there uh at Paint Easy in terms of how to how to run a business because that's a really outstanding net profit.
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Um and that's the average.
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So I'm assuming you definitely have friends that go way above that as well.
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Um what are the what are the the key things do you think that a painting business needs to do to ensure that they are profitable?
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Yeah, I I I think one, knowing your numbers and and uh also when knowing your numbers, making sure that everything's being tracked.
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Having a good accountant or bookkeeper is really, really important.
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And then, you know, whether it's QuickBooks or whatever software you're utilizing, being able to analyze those reports and know those numbers month in and month out, and evaluating uh we're really big, we job cost every single job that we do.
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And so we're able to go through each and every project from a coaching perspective and evaluate where were their wins, where were the losses, and where do we need to make adjustments?
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And it's through those little, and and a lot of times it's not even huge adjustments that need to be made, it's a lot of times micro adjustments of you know, yeah, how how do we tighten up a number on marketing, or how do we tighten up a mark uh a number on how much material costs that we're using on a project and things of those nature.
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And and and by doing that really helps aid in profitability and helping grow the business, you know, uh long term that way as well.
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Yeah, uh job costing definitely I think is a big one too, like uh getting that instant feedback, especially you doing it in a timely manner, like as you go or at the end of the week or something, so you can get that instant feedback uh you know to to make changes or to see what went wrong and make those fixes.
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Um do you guys use the employee model or the subcontractor model?
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So we start with a subcontractor model and evolve to employees over time.
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Uh so we would consider ourselves a hybrid model, um, but do start with the business on a submodel for sure.
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Okay.
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Um folks that use the submodel, uh the one of the things that we hear is you know, um, and I'm just curious on how since you guys are big into systems and and handling things from a systemized perspective when you have a sub that is like, oh, this isn't enough money you know for this job.
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You know, how do you kind of handle pushback when you're when you're getting or how do you approach negotiating with subcontractors to ensure that you know it's a win-win?
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Yeah.
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I I think that's an excellent question.
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And that's something that we actually train on a lot is the fact of not every job is going to be a perfect job for each and every contractor that you present a work order to as well.
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And so not having hurt feelings if a contractor turns you down for the rate that you're offering to pay or that's in the budget to pay, I think it's important to know.
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I think it's also important uh from a subcontracting perspective, building a Rolodex of subs that fit the various niches of the business that you service and really building relationships with those subs to where you can have those honest communications with them.
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Um I I like to kind of explain it this way.
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I I like sports and baseball is one that's easy for me to kind of uh give the analogy of that there's gonna be some jobs that are gonna be more like a single where it's you know, it's a one-day job.
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We're kind of making wages for everybody for the day and nothing to get too excited about.
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But then there's gonna be those other jobs that are home runs, grand slams that, you know, maybe it's a 10-day project and you know, they're getting paid 15 grand or something like that for their the labor portion of that project, and it ends up being, you know, a home run for that contractor as well.
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And then there's gonna be some doubles and triples that are sprinkled in there as well.
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And so when I talk to these, when we talk to contractors, helping them understand that not every job is gonna be created equal.
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There's going to be some that you probably don't like, and there's gonna be some that you're gonna love, and then there's gonna be some in the middle.
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And let's look at it from a portfolio standpoint.
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Can we keep you busy week in, week out?
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Can we keep you um where we've got consistent cash flow coming in, things of that nature as well.
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And really just trying to create a win-win partnership with these subs, um, you know, subcontract relationships for me is one of the most critical components to the business.
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And if you treat subs as that they're just the labor, then that's what you're gonna get out of it.
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You're gonna get people who want to negotiate you like crazy, they're going to be ruthless, um, they're gonna try to cut corners, they're you know, not gonna treat your clientele well.
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But if you're trying to create a real win-win partnership with these individuals and and and helping these individuals build their business by paying them fair market values and things of that nature as well, then you can really build a business off of it as well.
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Yeah, make that makes a lot of sense.
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So basically, uh keep it if they if they are upset or not as happy with one particular job pay, you know, try to help them see the bigger picture and that this is a longer-term relationship that you're hoping to build, and you know, some sometimes there's slimmer margins on on some jobs, especially I'm assuming if there's smaller, because sometimes there's not much budget.
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Uh, and but then there's gonna be you know those other jobs that if you can count on them, you know, that you will definitely keep them on the top of the list for those larger jobs as well.
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Yeah, and I think I would also say that uh just knowing those contractors that you work with too and understanding their businesses as well is important because you know, if I have if I send a company or a work order that has a really high overhead, but it's a project that's two days for two guys, and and and they're looking at it from, well, I've got five guys I need to keep fed and uh you know, keep their overhead costs, then sometimes when you send them those projects, they're trying to find ways to make it fit for five guys or make it so that it's a perfect fit for their business as well.
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And we just have to understand, too, that every job's not going to be perfect for that sub as well.
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And that's where we can present a work order to a sub, but not have hurt feelings if they turn it down or want to negotiate.
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But from a business owner standpoint, too, we have to understand our budget as well and be willing to move on from a subcontractor if it's not the right fit for both of us, too.
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Yeah, that makes that makes a lot of sense.
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Cool.
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Well you you mentioned that you know you start with subs, and I'm assuming that's because it's usually easier to get started with subcontractors.
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What at what point do you recommend folks to switch to employees and and I guess why switch to employees?
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So I guess a two-part question there.
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Yeah.
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So for us, the biggest thing with switching to employees comes that we get more brand recognition.
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We can get vans on the road with our you know, logos and things of that nature.
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And so it just starts expanding our marketing footprint.
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We have franchisees that uh I have a couple of franchisees that have been with us nine years now that are still 100% subcontractor based because they're just comfortable with it.
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And, you know, they've they haven't felt the need to have those employee painters or need to have that additional marketing presence from additional vans or trucks on the roads and things of that nature.
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But what we look at from, you know, why make a switch from sub to employee is um once once we start filling the calendar, you know, the calendar is consistently full and you you could keep one, two, three crews consistently busy, then why not bring one of those in-house or bring two of them in-house and start getting some of that branding recognition?
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Um, the other thing that does happen with bring them in-house is it's easier to get adoption of systems and processes when they're employee-based.
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Now, not saying that subcontractors, I uh some of the best painters I've ever worked with have been subcontractors and they've treated our clients amazing and take a lot of pride in their work, but there's also the other hand of subcontracting.
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You're gonna get some that maybe don't do those things as well.
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And so I think a lot of times subcontracting gets kind of a mixed review or sometimes a negative um context to it because they're not having subs follow some type of system or process and also not evaluating from a quality control standpoint, and it puts them in a tough situation.
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Um for me, uh the margins honestly are very similar between um an employee crew and subcontracting crew.
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It's just really what do you feel more confident with as your go-to-market strategy, is kind of the way we evaluate it.
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That makes sense.
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Um I'm I'm really curious.
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So you're you're working with 76 locations throughout the the US.
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What are the top, you know, the top 10 most successful franchisees that you've worked with?
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What are they doing?
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What are the the the big drivers from what from what you can tell to their success?
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What are they doing that's really moving the needle and helping them you know grow profitably and and just have a killer business?
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What do you think those things are?
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What's like the recipe to success for those folks?
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Yeah, I I I love this question.
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And I think there's a few things that really contribute to it, I think.
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First off, is continuing to educate yourself daily.
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Um, I I've been formally in the paint industry 25 years now, and there's still things that I can learn daily, and and no different for the franchise owners or any business owner for that matter.
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There's something that we can learn new daily.
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And so, do we continue to reinvest in learning and growth?
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And I find too that learning is like compounding interest.
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The more learning you do, the more compounding effect that you start seeing on your business as well.
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And so continuing to reinvest in yourself and your team, I think is really important for uh those who are successful.
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That that's one of the things that we've seen is those who continue to educate themselves and invest in their team from that standpoint do see more success.
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Then next to that would be continuing to market, whether it's slow, busy, summer, winter, continuing to market consistently throughout the year is also really important for the growth and evolution of the business as well.
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Um, we we see many painters or even a lot of other trades for that matter, that they'll invest when it's slow, but they won't keep investing in marketing when they're busy as well.
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And that's how you can stay more consistently busy and also growing your book of business is by continuing to uh invest in marketing.
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And then lastly, I find relationships within every market.
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Business is build on relationships, not transactions.
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And the more relationships you're willing to build in your in your marketplace, um, the larger your build business is gonna build.
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Um, if you're looking at just transactions, and you know, as soon as your tell lights around the corner from that house and you're done painting it, and that's that's the end of it, then you're probably always gonna be chasing that next dollar versus really building a business as well.
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Okay, so it sounds like three things.
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One, can continue to educate yourself and your team on a daily basis.
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There's always something to learn.
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And learning compounds itself.
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And then the second one is continue to market even when you feel like you have enough work or when it when the work is plentiful, you know, in the in the busy season, continue to keep the marketing machine going.
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And then three, continue to build relationships.
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You know, don't uh always look for opportunities in your community to build those relationships, because that's probably you know, it might not be a short-term strategy, but uh most definitely is at least uh a long-term strategy to be well known and connected in the community.
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Yeah, and the thing I would add to that is it's more expensive to acquire a new client versus to keep the client you have in the first place.
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And and and so continue to nurture the relationships if if that if it just feels like a transaction with the client that you work with, then that's all it's going to be.
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And we get this time and time again.
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Um, we we go through a nine-step sales and and kind of a discovery phase as we're talking through with a client.
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:23.039
And many times we'll ask them if they've worked with a professional painter in the past, and they'll say they had.
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:26.160
And and the follow-up question is, was it a good experience?
00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:28.160
And you know, tell us more about that.
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:32.480
And many times it was a good experience, and then we'll ask them why are they not working with them this time?
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:35.200
And it's just like I can't remember who they were.
00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:45.279
And so, you know, they lost that opportunity to continue working with that client because they didn't nurture a relationship, it was nothing but a transaction.
00:24:45.519 --> 00:25:03.839
And so if we're looking at business as just simply transactions, then we're gonna be continuing to chase that dollar versus if we continue to nurture those clients into more of a relationship basis versus a transaction, then you have the ability to really build that business long term.
00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:06.319
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:13.759
Keep in touch with your current customers, the or historical customers, so that they remember you next time they have to paint.
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:22.079
Uh, that's a like you said, super inexpensive way to uh you know to get to get repeat work.
00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:27.759
Because I mean, sending out a monthly newsletter via email is super cheap.
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:36.400
Even even direct mail, I mean, if you're doing direct quarterly direct mail, that's like a buck, a buck and a half per customer.
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:47.200
But if they're gonna spend five, ten thousand dollars with you in a couple years, you know, spending fifteen dollars on them might be worth it.
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:50.000
Yeah, I would I would totally agree.
00:25:50.079 --> 00:26:11.680
Like I said, it it's a lot more costly to acquire a new client than it is to keep one, and and so that's what I always urge anybody uh to do is continue to nurture that relationship, keep that relationship, and who knows where that relationship will take you, who they'll refer you to, not not just additionally the work that you would have working for them, but who could they refer you to as well.
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:12.880
Yeah.
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:15.119
That makes a lot of sense.
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:16.000
Cool.
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:28.799
Um so we talked about the the the top performers that you've seen, uh the different locations across the US.
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:32.240
I just I like to go inverse as well sometimes.
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:42.880
What the folks that fail, what are they what are they doing or not doing that, you know, you just when you see that happen, you're just like, I don't think this is gonna work out.
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:47.440
I know you know, you see something over and over and you kind of get a sixth sense for these things.
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:58.079
Oh what do you what are like the the things that when you see a painting business owner do, you're like, I really don't think that this is gonna work out with uh this franchisee.
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:09.680
Yeah, so I'm gonna speak to part of this from a franchisee perspective, and then part of this from my time with Sheran Williams and just working with subcontractors for so many years as well.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:14.000
I I think the first one, it goes back to again, do we know our numbers?
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:18.160
Um, are we are we actually making sure we're profitable on projects?
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:21.839
And then do we have the cash flow that's backing it up?
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:23.519
That that that's another challenge.
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:33.119
Um so we can train till we're blue in the face on how to sell a project profitably and and how to make it make sense for everybody.
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:43.920
But if they don't sell that work and actually don't get cash flow through through the business, then you still have fixed overhead expenses that you're gonna have month in and month out.
00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:49.519
And so there's that balance of I've got to have cash flow coming through the business monthly.
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:56.720
And then am I watching and and and fine-tuning that um business that's coming in to make sure we're profitable?
00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:03.119
That's one area that I find those who struggle the most is one, that they're struggling with just cash flow period.
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:14.079
They're not getting enough jobs running through the business monthly to keep where they are offsetting overhead expenses and things needed to actually grow the business.
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:23.839
And then, second to it, are they making them you know the minor tweaks or things along the way to ensure profitability too to continue to grow the business?
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:50.079
Um, and then uh kind of on the the inverse of what I said on the the those who are growing, um, it's those who don't continue to learn and those who don't continue to uh follow systems and processes, our our franchise owners that struggle every time we start stripping it back and find that it's they're they're missing some of the systems and processes or they're just trying to skip steps.
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:55.839
Um you know, we as humans always want to find the path of least resistance.
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:11.519
And it's no different within franchising, even though we have a playbook and all the systems and processes, we still have franchisees that want to try to shortchange just a process to make it simpler, to get from point A to Z faster, things of that nature.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:17.519
And it's when they skip steps in between that's every time that's where we're gonna find that there's a problem as well.
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:29.359
And so staying dedicated to whatever your systems and processes or systems and systems and processes for the business would be the first thing.
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:47.680
And then continuing to learn and grow, you know, listen listening to podcasts like this, but uh other podcasts as well, or networking with other contractors who are successful in your area and finding ways to make improvements, um, continuing to learn your industry, learn your craft.
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:52.880
How do you become I you know, I I always say a rising tide lifts all boats.
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:54.400
We've heard that for forever.
00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:59.839
I want every contractor to be successful in our marketplace and charge.
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:07.519
Charging rates that they can be profitable on and also have good solid cash flow because it helps everybody.
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:19.599
Um helps everybody in the marketplace, and and and so um continue to network, meet other contractors who are successful in your marketplace, and then uh make sure you're profitable.
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:25.839
Those are the things that I see that are usually the shortcomings of most contractors that are struggling.
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:28.720
That yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:33.440
And uh I noticed you mentioned cash flow, as as the saying goes, cash is king.
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:38.319
You know, if you don't have cash in your business, you're not gonna be in business for very long.
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:44.319
Uh because that's that's the one thing you need to continue to operate, is you need cash.
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:56.319
Uh so what do you what are you know obviously being profitable and and bidding jobs is important to ensure you have cash because profits equals cash.
00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:03.039
Are there any other things that you you try to train the franchisees on to make sure that they have proper cash flow?
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:08.880
Uh yeah, I mean it goes back to marketing consistently.
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:16.640
Um continually marketing so that the leads and jobs come in regularly helps ensure there's cash flow.
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:26.720
Um, but also continuing to build those relationships in your marketplace will also aid in the ability to keep cash churning throughout the business.
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:33.200
And then for us, we've especially, you know, you you mentioned kind of a unique market right now in 2025.
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:54.079
Having various services, I, you know, as much as I wish that we could say we just do interior painting or we just do exterior painting and you really niche down, we we're finding offering many services that are really tied to painting has been important for us to stay consistently busy and growing as well.
00:31:54.240 --> 00:32:00.640
Um, because it has been a little bit of a unique year where certain markets maybe interior paintings down this year.
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:26.559
And so we're focusing on garage floor coatings or decks and fences or exteriors, or maybe it's just drywall repairs or you know, popcorn ceiling removals or whatever it might be, you know, uh finding other you uh offshoots of just painting to make sure that you can stay consistently turning cash through the business has been uh an important thing, um, at least for us.
00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:27.519
Yeah.
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:29.279
That makes sense.
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:41.839
Um so keeping marketing turned on and uh and offering different services, you know, to as like I'm assuming either upsells or or just main offer.
00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:48.240
Do you guys usually do upsells to those other services or to like make the overall job more valuable?
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:54.079
Or are you also marketing on the front end for like those kind of offshoots as well?
00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:59.519
So both, definitely marketing for the the different various services as well.
00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:02.319
Um, like garage floor coatings for one.
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:08.960
That's one that will independently market and generate leads just for that niche.
00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:20.799
But we'll also use that when we're doing an interior exterior project, also asking have they can been considering a garage floor, you know, or does your garage floor need updating and things of that nature?
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:26.559
Um, are an easy add-on to what we're already doing there for that client as well.
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:34.960
And so, yeah, there's both upsells or cross-selling of different services and also just marketing them independently.
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:38.960
Um and I think that's important too.
00:33:39.119 --> 00:34:09.920
It goes again back to I hate to harp on just systems and processes, but having a sell system that you follow that allows you to ask for additional items within a house or commercial building or whatever it might be, um, cross-selling different services, I think, are also important to building that ticket to where you're you know helping add profitability or adding more cash to the business as well.
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:12.960
Um, those come into play for sure.
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:14.480
That's awesome.
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:15.920
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:16.480
Cool.
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:20.079
Well, Jay, I really appreciate your time today.
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:38.559
You've been super generous, and I think listeners have gotten a ton of value from some of the things that you've thrown out there in terms of like what what makes a great painting business from what you've seen working with dozens and dozens of other painting businesses across the the US and and then what doesn't work, which you need to avoid.
00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:43.440
Um, do you have any final thoughts or asks of the audience?
00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:48.719
Really just uh continue to build your business, have fun with it.
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:50.559
I I think that's the one thing too.
00:34:50.719 --> 00:35:09.519
A lot of times business owners get so stressed out about building their business and just have fun with building your business, gamify will have fun and and and and start building those systems and processes that really build the business that they're they're looking to create for themselves and their families and whatnot.
00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:13.679
Um, and then just ask, see seek other mentorship in your marketplace.
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:22.800
Um, there's every market in the country, there's going to be contractors that are willing to share best practices or willing to help out and things of that nature.
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:36.559
And so seek other mentors um in your in your marketplace and and and create other you know networking relationships that way that are that are good for for you and maybe other clientele and whatnot as well.
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:38.800
Awesome.
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:39.840
Awesome.
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:42.320
I really appreciate your time today, Jay.
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:46.639
And for the audience, with that, we will see you next week.