How do I fit everything in? Annette Gray on leading as a coach

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Hey everyone, welcome back to the New South Wales Primary Principles Association Professional Learnings podcast.
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I'm Drew Janetzki and I'm really glad you're here.
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Earlier this year, Annette Gray came on the show and that conversation genuinely struck a chord.
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So many of you reached out, and honestly, it felt like we'd only scratched the surface.
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So we brought her back.
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This time we're going deeper, asking the bigger, more honest questions about where leadership is really sitting right now.
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Annette is a leadership and coaching specialist.
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She began her career as a high school teacher, then moved into corporate learning and development, and she spent years helping leaders get comfortable with one fundamental shift: asking more and telling less.
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In this episode, we dig into four things that pretty much every principal is grappling with.
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We talk about what leadership actually looks like today and how it's shifted.
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What genuinely makes an effective leader in this climate, how you possibly fit it all in when you've only got one protected hour a week, and what it really means to lead like a coach rather than a boss.
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Then we do something a little different, and honestly a little vulnerable.
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Annette coaches me live on a real challenge I'm facing.
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Not a role play, a real coaching conversation.
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So you can actually hear what this kind of coaching sounds like when it's happening.
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Stick around to the end too because Annette is running coaching courses through the association this year and will let you know how to get involved, whether that's face-to-face or online.
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Alright, let's get into it.
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Well, welcome colleagues.
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It's a pleasure to have you, and we have back on the podcast by popular demand.
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She is such a wonderful has such wonderful insight in terms of leadership and coaching, and it really resonated with our audience.
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And so it's a pleasure to welcome you back, Annette Gray.
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Thank you so much, Drew.
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I'm really excited about the conversation and continue this conversation that we had earlier in the Absolutely, as am I.
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And in terms of the conversations, colleagues, I really want you to wherever you are, think around.
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These are some really big questions that are coming through.
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And Annette, I'm going to put you on the spot in terms of the some challenging, potentially some confronting questions, but I think it's the right time to be asking these questions as we're we're halfway through 2026 and we sort of do that pulse check of where things are landing at the moment.
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Um so if you're comfortable with that, let's let's see if we can go into that space.
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I'm really looking forward to it.
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Yeah, yeah, so am I.
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So my first big question, Annette, is it's a it's a big one to say, well, what is leadership?
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What's that is it's such an interesting word, leadership, isn't it?
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And what what what does leadership mean to you?
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I've been doing a lot of reading about this and and watching, because our world some of our world leaders aren't great at leadership.
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So what is leadership?
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We can agree that audience I'm sure would agree with you.
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But how do they get into that position and and and then we know what we sort of hopefully in the back our minds go, well, what is good leadership as well?
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Because we're sort of seeing examples of bad leadership.
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Yes, for sure.
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And um, you know, I remember uh watching a video, uh, you know, an interview with Barack Obama, and he said each level of leadership I went, you know, I was promoted into, he thought that level will have it all sorted out.
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And then he became president of um United States and he went, I'm interacting with these world leaders, and they still haven't got it sorted out.
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So I think that what is leadership, I think it's changing.
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You know, it it used to be the focus, it was the two elements of good leadership was managing the task and managing the relationship.
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I think that is still there, but I think it's so much more than that.
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I think it this concept of how how do we develop great leaders, and I think it's it comes down to what I've read recently about what wise leadership is.
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And that that isn't go to a course and you're suddenly a wise leader, it happens through action learning, it happens through doing.
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Yeah.
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Um, and and I'm seeing a lot of my work is sort of moving towards that.
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How do we help others learn by doing?
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You know, and it and it's not just a leadership program, it's uh really doing some navel gazing around why do I lead in the way I lead?
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What have been the strong influences in my life that makes me do what I do?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So it's really helping leaders become more conscious of what is it?
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What is your philosophy of how you lead?
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What is the purpose of why you became a leader?
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And then lastly, is what does that translate into your practice?
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So extending upon that, that what is leadership notion, and thank you, great examples there.
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What The question from that is what is an effective leader today then?
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What does that look and sound and feel like today?
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Or and even further building upon that, what's what do why do you think people become or chose to be a leader in it?
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So I think effective leadership, like if I tell you a story about one of the leaders in my career that had the biggest impact on me, and I'm still hearing myself say things that he said.
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Um so I I think for me, you know, the the leader had who had the most impact on me was when I was in my 30s.
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And he was 36 at the time.
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So he's very relatively young leader.
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Was this in education or is this in another industry?
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This was in um the finance sector.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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So um my background is I was a high school teacher.
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Yeah.
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Um, taught for a number of years, and then moved across into corporate and did uh was in learning and development and then leadership development, strategic HR.
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So he was the HR director at the time.
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But it was not only him, it was the managing director at the time.
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And both were very big thinkers, and both were about how can we change this organizational culture?
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And they were very progressive at the time.
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But if I go back to Danny, who was my HR director at the time, what had stayed with me, he was all about creating this adult-adult relationship with me and allowing me to have agency and autonomy over my work.
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And he coached me.
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And it was before coaching came into Australia.
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So he was ahead of his times in terms of how he would have one-to-one conversations.
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He did so much more asking and so much less telling.
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I heard agency and autonomy are and and is that it?
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Is that what effective leaders give today?
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Agency and autonomy.
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And I could hear in terms of the how you lit up when still when you talk about Danny as well, so clearly had a profound impact on your on your on your leadership as well as your current career at this point in time.
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Exactly.
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And I think at the time, I hadn't experienced anything like that.
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A leader who totally trusted me, um, recognized my strengths, and gave me the space to actually have that autonomy and work things out for myself.
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But he was like the safety net.
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So we would have regular conversations.
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And another thing he did was with our team, because we're quite an eclectic team, like of people of um in the HR team at the time.
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But what he did is he played to our strengths.
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And he said to us, How often do you want to have one-to-ones with me?
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So it wasn't a blanket everyone must meet weekly.
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It was, well, when my project was coming to a head, could we meet weekly?
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But otherwise, I'm I'm okay with every two weeks.
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Okay.
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But he was curious, he was interested in me as a person, but also me and the work I was doing, and helped set up the conditions for me to excel.
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So I think going back to your original question what is an effective leader, they have a uniqueness about them.
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And they help others identify their uniqueness so that they could love what they were doing.
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Yeah, that so they could see beyond clearly the talents.
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They could, they wanted to know the person and what the motivation was behind the person.
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And then the person your experience was, oh, this actually this person actually feels I feel cared and valued for.
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Exactly.
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And I remember I at the time I got married and I went on my honeymoon and I came back and he said to me, Oh gosh, I've missed you, you know, because I was out I think four four or five weeks.
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And he cared.
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Yeah.
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You know, and having someone who cared, but he also got the best out of me.
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So, you know, after he left that role and someone else took over, so he brought out the best in all of us, but the next leader who came in, she actually brought the worst out of us.
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Let's go
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there.
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Why?
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Why?
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What's the difference?
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Was it was it all the opposites to what we've just discussed?
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It was style.
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Yeah.
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So whereas Danny was trusting, gave you space, gave you autonomy, and believed in and valued you, the opposite was close thinking, um, very controlling, micromanaging, didn't trust you, kept flip-flopping of decisions.
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Um, and so it was Do you think that's insecur Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to speak over you.
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I was gonna say, do you think that's insecurity in that in that space because of yeah, is that a power move or what what what do we call that in terms of leadership?
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Is that a power over move or insecurity or all of the above?
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Definitely, definitely it's power over controlling because underneath that is I'm not really comfortable with what's happening here, and I can't maybe not very self-aware and they're unconscious of what they're doing.
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So the way they lead is control everything.
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And I often describe work, there's levels of work.
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Yep.
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And if I if I describe it as if there's the bank teller, their work is very transactional, yeah.
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It's just the main task is done in a day.
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And in in organizations and and also in in levels of leadership, you want the ability for someone to be able to think out broader.
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Um, so if the bank teller reported to the team leader of the bank teller, you'd want them to be able to think out about, you know, one or one to three months.
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But then the team leader then reports to a branch manager who is able to think out a year.
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So you've got levels of roles in organizations and and can be overlaid in terms of schools, but then you've got the capability of people who do those roles.
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Yeah.
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And it doesn't always match the level of work.
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So if I go back to that leader who took over from Danny, her ability to make connections and see the bigger system was not there.
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So she dumbed down the role to suit her level of capability, not actually looking at what people in her team, the capability of her team.
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And that's what you get when people haven't got the awareness, are promoted into a role that may be beyond their capability at that time.
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So they dumb it down, control it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Or they get that's one aspect, or they give away their power and will go, oh, well, that's what the system's telling me to do.
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So I've just got to follow the orders and be compliant.
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Rather than what Danny did was he was sharing power.
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Yeah.
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And it takes a level of awareness and consciousness to be able to trust others.
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Is this a skill then, Annette, that can be essentially trained?
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So from that poor managing example that you gave, is is that a skill set that can be changed?
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Or is that a if we go back, if you go to the work of Carol Tweck, for example, with growth mindset, which uh you know the work of, can that can it actually change?
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Or if I'm thinking of colleagues who are going, I might be in this position at the moment, I feel challenged and I can relate to all of those things.
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Help, what what what does one do here?
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I think for me, the most practical thing you could do is actually start to become aware.
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Yeah.
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What is am I what is it that I'm doing that's working?
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Yeah.
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And what is it that I'm doing that it's getting in the way of my effectiveness?
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So when, you know, you've probably heard the old analogy above the line and below the line behaviors.
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The second leader I described was below the line.
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Yeah, yep.
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Closed thinking, um, siloed teams.
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Yep.
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Then you get disengaged people.
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And so very much what happens unbelow the line is unconscious behaviors.
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Yeah.
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And then you get that and in some sectors we call that traditional ways of leading.
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Um, and we don't have to look very far in terms of world leaders and see what happened who's doing that.
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Well, that's worked.
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So if you see if this is work to go from point A to point B to where you know leaders that we're seeing crave power, uh that's a clearly uh model that's worked.
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Exactly.
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Exactly.
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So you can understand why people go down that pathway and what we're seeing.
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But what it doesn't land well.
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No, people rebel, you know, when they're too micromanaged or too controlled, yeah, and have no voice in that.
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Yeah.
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I'm seeing above-the-line behaviors is more about being conscious.
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Why do I lead the way I lead?
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Yeah.
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Who who have been the influences in my the way I lead?
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And start to be really conscious about that.
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You know, what is my practice?
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So Danny had this huge influence on me.
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I didn't realize until I did this exercise a few months ago when I was um part of this uh mastery, coaching mastery program, and I started to go, wow, I lead because of that.
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Yep.
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And, you know, that leads to the purpose of why am I doing it?
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And then how does that land in terms of practices?
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I have regular one-to-ones with people because that worked.
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Yeah.
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I do more asking and less telling, but allow others to have agency over and autonomy and control over what they're doing.
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Yeah.
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Um, so the more we can create that awareness of knowing ourselves.
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And I say knowing ourselves because we are not one self, we're not one personality.
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We have many different parts to us that get triggered in certain times.
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So, how do we actually know ourselves well?
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And and then the other aspect is how then do I relate in this system I'm operating in and what is happening in it at the better level?
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Yeah, yeah.
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I mean, so many levels that you've just unpacked there, Annette, in terms of going into the big another question is in terms of leadership, it it always an issue in terms of context.
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It feels like more so than ever, how do I fit everything in in the context of in the New South Wales system, the one hour, which is uh uh an agreement that cannot be changed, one hour per week at professional learning communications, etc.
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And that's a question I'm hearing as well.
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How do I fit everything in as a leader?
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What is there that's a big question there?
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How do I fit everything in?
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Or people listening to this is yes, how do I fit everything in?
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And what does that look and sound and feel like?
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Or are we going around and thinking around this in a it can in another way?
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Can we think about this in another way?
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I think so.
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I think and that's where coaching comes in, where you're um oh, what's the term it used to be used a few years ago?
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I can't even remember it's not coming to me about distributive leadership.
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Yeah.
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And that's where creating a coaching culture within your school where you're actually helping to delegate responsibility to more just you being the sole principal who has to be responsible for everything.
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So, and thinking that that one hour of professional development is the way I develop people.
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I think change happens through conversation.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So what what is if we go to what is distributed leadership for that terminology, what does that what could that look and sound and feel like through putting in the umbrella of how can I lead as a coach?
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Yeah, and I think it it's about all leaders in your school, how do they be coach-like in all their conversations with their teachers?
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And being authentic too.
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And being authentic too, and caring about the people that you're leading, that they don't leave their life behind when they enter the school gate, that they are a human being and want to be valued.
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I think the shift from old style of leadership to our new world is that they want their leader to be a coach, not a boss.
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Yeah.
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So getting back to that one hour of professional development, it's not just one hour.
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You know, how do I utilize that time that's pu really effective?
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But there's all these other times that I can be developing people.
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Incidental or deliberate intention.
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That's right.
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So coaching isn't this formal thing that I only do in my PDP conversations.
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It's something that can be if you got five minutes, um, walking down the corridor, out in the playground.
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It just can be distilled down to three words.
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So what's happening for you now?
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You know, what how do you want it to be?
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What's your next small step?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:07.839
And that's what being coach like is.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:12.319
And layered on that is how do you be more solution focused?
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:21.680
I think a lot of our conversations are very problem-oriented, but the solution isn't about understanding the problem further.
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:25.920
It's about redirectoring it to what do you want instead?
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.720
What would that look like if you had that?
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:32.480
What might be your first small step that you might take towards that?
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:36.480
So it becomes a way you have conversations.
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:41.039
And this is applied not just directly to your staff.
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:48.640
Is this a conversation piece for, for example, your community, parents, etc., who come?
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:58.960
Because a lot of principals don't just get the um I'm going to have um make an appointment with you, um, Annette, to praise you on your performance.
00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:06.480
It's more I'm coming to you, Annette, because I've got an issue and you need to solve that for me.
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:07.839
Exactly.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:16.319
So it it it's it can actually be a way of teaching as well that you're asking more, telling less in your classroom.
00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:23.119
But yes, particularly with parents, um you want to have a partnership with your parents.
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:27.759
You don't want to be directing them of this is just the way we do it here.
00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:33.200
But it's how they have got a concern about this their their child.
00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:33.599
Yeah.
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:41.920
So how do you work with them in an adult adult way to help resolve what they want?
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:42.319
Yeah.
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:42.799
Yeah.
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:45.599
And that is the way you have conversations.
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:57.200
Well, let's if we can be uh quoting Brene Brown here, we're going to be a little bit vulnerable in terms of doing a role play, colleagues who are listening in.
00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:01.200
We're going to look at a role play of what that could actually sound like.
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:08.640
It's nice to say these things, but let's see if we can get into the nitty-gritty if if um and so I'm putting myself there.
00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:14.000
If you can coach me in today's podcast, Annette, of what does that potentially?
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:23.359
So we'll probably do a little bit of a role play on what does that so you I'll hand over to you, coach, and we can see if we can play along.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:28.720
And I'm sure our listeners tuning in may find this interesting.
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:29.599
Excellent.
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:31.200
And so let me qualify.
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:35.839
It's real play, not roleplay, because this is going to be a real topic for you.
00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:37.200
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:41.440
Um, so we'll probably go for about eight minutes, something like that.
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:57.119
Um, so what I would like listeners to do is notice the questions I'm asking and and why would that be considered coach-like in the way that you know um I'm leading.
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:57.599
Yeah.
00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:01.440
Basically, yeah, but I'm leading you in a coach-like way.
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:02.079
Okay.
00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:06.240
Um, so we've got about eight minutes now, Drew.
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:06.799
Yeah.
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:10.400
What are your best hopes from our conversation right now?
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:13.200
Look, uh, there's a lot on, right?
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:15.839
I'm uh I've got a lot of things.
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:33.200
If I'm doing my role play, I'm a I'm a principal, which would be I'm an educational leader, and I have things in my strategic direction as I'm looking at halfway through the year, and I've got how would I describe some things?
00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:36.480
I'm not seeing what I'm liking at the moment.
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:44.400
I'm trying to bump students or my my percentage of growth isn't where I thought it would be, particularly for maths.
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:53.359
Um, but I'm just not seeing, I know we put a lot of effort into professional learning and efforts at the start of the year.
00:24:53.359 --> 00:25:18.559
I'm just maybe I'm being impatient, I'm not sure, but this I'm feeling the pressure that the uh the students aren't moving, and I'm a bit stuck in terms of I I know my workforce, I'm I know my staff uh if I I tell them one more way to to help improve students' maths, I think they get that I I'm I'm pretty passionate about improving students' mathematics concepts.
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:21.359
So help me, coach, what can we do here?
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:22.160
Sure.
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:22.880
Awesome.
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:39.680
So given we've only got about seven minutes left now, what are you hoping for in term from this conversation around this topic of growth for maths concepts in your students?
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:43.839
What what what would tell you this was a useful conversation around that?
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:52.160
Well, I'm just looking at the pre-data so far that we've done and what would success look like?
00:25:52.160 --> 00:26:00.319
I'd like to see more students, you know, showing that demonstrate that they clearly understand in in stage one.
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:06.640
I'm not seeing the fundamentals being established as well as we would like there.
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:24.720
And I'm not seeing the growth that we have, and I know this is a time factor, and I know my school plan is four years, but I'm we put a lot of effort in a net in terms of uh this work, and it's not feeling like things are moving as they should should.
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:34.640
So students understanding basic uh number concepts and our stage three students really aren't understanding pattern recognition as well.
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:41.599
So I'm just thinking around what is the best concept.
00:26:41.599 --> 00:27:03.119
I'm thinking potentially I could bring that to them, but I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but I want to be also show them that this is the challenge that I'm feeling as well with with growth and development and basic understanding of maths because that is essentially, you know, I'll go back to my why, why do students come to school?
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:11.680
It's to learn how to read and it's learn learning how to do uh add up and use mathematics, because that's a real world thing, right?
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:13.279
Yeah, for sure.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:22.799
So um what difference would it make if these students understood these maths fundamentals?
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:24.079
What difference would that make?
00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:49.839
Uh well, um as I've alluded to, if they don't have that basic understanding is my um in the particularly in the early years, the that foundation is almost built on sand, and then as the years progress, then that that that recall and understanding of of basic number is going to be harder for students as they progress through.
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:53.920
And my biggest fear is that they be disengaged with learning.
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:54.559
Okay.
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:54.960
Yeah.
00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:03.440
Okay, so these are the the basic fundamentals, building blocks of of what these students need in terms of their understanding.
00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:08.000
Yeah, and the other fear absolutely is going into high school.
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:21.359
It's a um it's a different space for our primary students, and I want to ensure maybe there's some pride here as a as a school, we want to ensure that our students are ready for high school in that transition.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:32.240
So my why is very hopefully coming across as being very centered in terms of what my there's a bigger reason for yeah, that why, absolutely.
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:42.480
So I'm wondering for this conversation if we focus on the earlier the younger years, so would you say stage one?
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:42.960
Yeah.
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:44.000
Yep, stage one.
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:44.880
Yeah.
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:55.200
How would you know in say a year's time that you'd made an impact on this?
00:28:55.200 --> 00:29:04.880
That this stage one had a higher percentage of understanding maths fundamentals.
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:06.640
What would you be noticing?
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:12.640
I'd be noticing in terms of just the observation of engagement.
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:20.319
I'd be noticing the um whether we like that or not is using assessment data.
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:25.440
And that is a one point I understand of reference, but it's a fairly important.
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:28.240
Um and what would be in that assessment data?
00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:31.279
What would you be noticing saying, oh, we've moved this?
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:44.960
Yeah, so in terms of uh cross-checking against our um against our syllabus to ensure that students are meeting those those fundamentals and making sure that they're meeting those stage one outcomes.
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:51.680
And obviously stage one ends in year in year two for stage one, so yes.
00:29:51.680 --> 00:30:01.119
And the other um model is that we have in our system where we have a uh a check-in model where we can see where students have that.
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:05.680
It it's what the system actually has, where it's a check-in model to see where students are at.
00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:31.839
So I guess in terms of those data sets, I'd be seeing where they are with their check-in, I'd be seeing where the engagement is, and I'm also curious to see how I can give more um you can tell I'm pretty passionate about mathematics, so how can I embed that into uh in a natural way for my staff to have that same enthusiasm that I have?
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:38.559
So how would you notice that your staff has the enthusiasm like you?
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:58.240
Well, you know, through observation, through looking through uh class staff room, yes, but that's not a form, but it could be uh through walking through classrooms myself to see what that looks and sounds and feels like.
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:13.279
Asking students, for example, when I do walk and talks, is to look at and see what students are learning and explain what and why they're learning, how they're learning and how they're getting to those particular concepts.
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:27.359
So I guess in terms of my, you know, and an example of that could could be asking better questions to the students, but ensuring that I can feed that not as a judgment piece on my staff as well.
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:29.440
So that I'm I'm in that balancing act.
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:33.759
I'm sharing this is what I found through my walk and talks and discussions.
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:49.920
And the next step as leaders as we challenge is is the noticing and wonderings of that thinking about how okay, Johnny's saying he can't doesn't know how to go when he's stuck.
00:31:49.920 --> 00:32:15.359
So how can I give Johnny or enable the teacher to have those to allow Johnny to know he can go to particular parts of the where can he get support so he can he can acquire the knowledge he he needs to overcome his understanding of mathematics or basic number concepts or addition and subtraction or whatever the problem is in mathematics?
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:16.960
Hope I'm making sense.
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:17.519
Yes.
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:30.240
So if we circle back to observation of engagement and you're walking past your teacher's classroom, how would you notice that was happening?
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:41.359
Well, that's probably the trickiest part because every classroom, every school is unique in their particular concept.
00:32:41.359 --> 00:33:24.240
And to walk past and make a judgment call is quite un you know, unfair, I fundamentally feel, because you know, there could be whatever context, classrooms are very dynamic places, so it's not fair to be making a judgment call on if it's loud, if it's quiet, if you know kids are uh whatever the con whatever's occurring at that point in time, the thinking I have is to know the students is through that observation of walk and talks, but also the ensuring my staff know those questions of knowing where their students are at at that point in time.
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:33.839
And I can say from an example that teachers or good teachers and own know this, they know where their students are.
00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:38.880
I know that that they know where their students are.
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:56.960
So we're probably sharing the same concerns, it's just a matter of the in terms of going back to the problem, we're not it on the on the on the data that I'm seeing, and we all have different data sets, is I'm not seeing the growth.
00:33:56.960 --> 00:34:20.159
Maybe I'm being impatient, I'm not sure, but that's what I'm not on seeing, and I'd like that to shift because I talked about the why, with a balancing act of ensuring that I don't um uh I guess it's a it's the always a tightrope, isn't it, to ensure that my staff are not um resenting me for my drive and passion in that space.
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:31.599
So what would your staff be noticing about you in terms of the shift in maths fundamentals?
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:36.639
How would they notice you're supportive of what they're trying to achieve?
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:44.719
Well, that's a good reflective question, and it's something that I could reflect upon as a leader, and I like that how you've shifted that.
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:50.000
So, yes, I could think of okay, is the problem with the teacher?
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:59.679
Because I think as as a first thing as a through my readings, it's we don't we should look at ourselves as a leader to say, well, what can I do?
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:00.880
Can I resource more?
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:02.320
Potentially, yes.
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:07.840
Could I allocate well time is also as I said the issue.
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:17.920
So, how can I allocate strategic timing so that um allocation towards meeting that target is actually met without problem?
00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:26.719
So I'm thinking of asking further questions of a as a leader to say, I'm not here to judge you.
00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:30.079
We're sharing the same problem here.
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:37.760
So how can I, as a leader, support you to reach the potential that we have aimed for?
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:48.400
So it's a partnership of the And what difference would that make to teachers if they knew that you were partnering with them around this change?
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:52.000
I think they would feel less judged by me.
00:35:52.000 --> 00:36:01.920
Okay subliminally, and I'm trying to hide that as a leader at the moment, but I feel judged as a system as a leader based on our results as a whole school.
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:08.559
And that's probably for our listeners in this role play, maybe something you could relate to as well.
00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:24.400
So yeah, that's and I that's where my thinking after our conversation is where my thinking and focus would be rather than it's um it's easy to judge in terms of reflecting on this conversation, isn't it?
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:25.679
Yes, definitely.
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:29.519
I'm I'm I'm impressed with your insight around that.
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:37.599
So I'm wondering the last question I want to ask around this preferred future that you're wanting in a year's time.
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:42.159
You talked about strategic timing and having allocation.
00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:45.760
What would that look like if you'd achieved that?
00:36:45.760 --> 00:37:00.480
Well, I mean, it'd be paradise in terms of the world of of of what I would like in terms of the quality quality world where students would be engaged, we'd be well above state average with all of our mathematic concepts.
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:06.480
Students would be and families would be well engaged with mathematics and they could see the relevance.
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:13.920
Uh, we'd be just we'd be a beacon school for mathematics, uh, which would be quite inspiring.
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:18.320
And I'm, you know, that's my passion in this space.
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:23.519
And I'm just hopeful that we can get to that space.
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:28.559
So that would be the if you said what could what would I like, that would be the that would be the goal.
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:29.039
Yeah.
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:44.239
And and in terms of the allocate timing allocation, have you got some thoughts around how you'll you'll put that into place where that they've got the time to focus on this?
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:46.880
Yeah, that's always a challenge as a leader.
00:37:46.880 --> 00:38:00.719
And that's my I guess in terms of um if we think about the the covey quadrant, which I know many of our leaders would be understanding, is what is urgent and most important in in the space.
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:06.400
So it's a good reset to say, well, what is my what is the most important aspect?
00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:24.400
And I go back to the why of why do students go to school is to read and to learn how to you and learn how to incorporate mathematics, which is the two key principles that are never should be never going away in a school context.
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:25.119
Okay.
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:27.039
So where are you now?
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:44.079
If that's a 10 out of 10, what you've described in terms of you'd notice this engagement improvement, um, it's coming out in your data, um, around the links to the syllabus that have been, you know, made progress on.
00:38:44.079 --> 00:39:05.920
Um, there's an enthusiasm there as you walk past classrooms, as you're talking to students, you're noticing that enthusiasm, you're crystal clear on where students are at in terms of their understanding of math's fundamentals, and there's been allocation, timing allocation for teachers to focus on.
00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:08.239
That's a 10 out of 10.
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:10.559
Where are you today on that?
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:16.320
One being there's no evidence of any of that, but I'm I'm sure there's probably progress being made.
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:16.800
Yeah.
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:18.159
Where would you put yourself?
00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:21.360
Yeah, that's hence the conversation.
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:29.199
I think we're approximately, you know, we're putting that effort in, but the results aren't showing at this point in time.
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:37.760
I'd say then in terms of that space, probably being giving myself myself or where we're at as a six out of ten.
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.400
So there's room for room for improvement.
00:39:40.400 --> 00:40:03.039
We're not failing, but we uh because we put things in place, but I want to make sure that our team, and I'm and I'd be honest, I have seen things that have moved, so it's not all doom and gloom, but there are things that I guess in terms of the um expectations is the word where where we could be with a 10 out of 10.
00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:03.760
Awesome.
00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:13.440
So we're going to uh unpack this in a bit of a different way, because most people then would go straight to what's missing between the six and the ten.
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:16.719
But we're gonna spend some time unpacking the six.
00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:17.280
Okay.
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:19.840
How come you're that high?
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:26.239
What are the things that have already worked in the focus on maths fundamentals?
00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:28.079
Well, okay.
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:28.719
Really?
00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:34.480
Well, we've done our looking at our programs, we're making sure we've got consistency across that.
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:43.599
That's the paper work space, we've done observations of our work, we've done the walk and talks incorporating them.
00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:57.599
We've um we've got data walls to show where students are at with their with their growth from assessments to difference through if different forms of um practice.
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:09.119
We've also um we've also audited out all of our um all of our mathematic resources from kindergarten through to which is a fair amount.
00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:16.719
We've also had uh put putting numeracy into conversations through our newsletters and so forth.
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:45.280
So we are really and we've also say the word experimented, but we um are deliberate with our intention of putting mathematics in the first part of the day, because the research shows that that could be that is prime time for learning and sometimes can be the second cousin to our our dear friends in the English um and reading section.
00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:58.800
So that's our I guess there's some things and of obvious obviously there's work with the curriculum that we've done in terms of there's been a change of curriculum and how we are really all of our staff understanding that.
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:03.119
So So you've done a lot of the foundational work.
00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:17.039
If you were to see some signs of progress at a seven, yeah at only one point up the scale, what would you be hoping to start noticing that would tell you we're on track?
00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:18.960
Be some signs.
00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:27.840
Uh there'd be signs that uh there's consistency in practice across our school in terms of that.
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:44.000
Now that also what I mean by that is that when we do our learning walks and talks, that students are across our whole school saying similar things in terms of where to go, how to solve problems themselves.
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:50.800
Because at the end of the day, we want our students to ensure they are independent learners of how to solve mathematic problems.
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:54.880
So what I'd be looking for is consistency and we are seeing that.
00:42:54.880 --> 00:42:55.280
Okay.
00:42:55.280 --> 00:42:59.679
But we c it's an old adage of even better if.
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:00.079
Yeah.
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:07.679
So how would students notice this consistency?
00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:28.239
Well, the ideal world is they know that they're I guess fundamentally that we're here as a school and our staff to support them in their learning, and it gets real when there's the struggle.
00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:33.119
So how to overcome that struggle with um maths?
00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:47.440
Because maths has been for and it's generational, maths has been an issue or could be an issue has been issues because of bad experience that that uh the parent has had through their schooling.
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:58.320
And then and then those values or those subconscious or I'm not good at maths has has almost crept through generational.
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:13.599
So I've heard Um that is a it's almost what we're talking about is generational change in terms of our thinking around mathematics and and and the stories people tell themselves about certain things.
00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:15.360
Because it's very black and white.
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:17.920
Um you're either right or you're wrong.
00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:23.840
And if you get things wrong after a while, repeatedly, I think there's a form of rejection there.
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:24.079
Yeah.
00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:31.920
And then there's a sense of identity regarding your ability, and that's what we want to avoid in the in the space.
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:34.400
So can or yeah.
00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:45.360
Well I'm just conscious of how long we've gone in terms of this conversation when it and it's been a wonderful example of you know you getting clearer and clearer.
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:50.239
What might be your next small step in the next 48 hours?
00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:53.440
What might kick start you towards the seven?
00:44:53.440 --> 00:45:11.280
I think it's just the sharing within the um honestly where we're at, but also making sure that I'm not uh, as you can tell, there's a leader is ensuring that my staff know that we have an expectation.
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:14.800
We're just not there yet at the moment.
00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:32.480
So the thinking in terms of initial is just having the conversation with and sharing without being um it's a balancing tightroping act of saying we're not where we are at and bringing them into the conversation is my initial thinking.
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:33.199
So yeah.
00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:34.800
And so when might you do that?
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:36.239
Like how will you bring them into conversation?
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:42.800
So the so it would be through our our as I said, we have our one hour of professional learning.
00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:43.199
Okay.
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:53.440
And just saying just a snapshot of where we're at, praising the work, but showing these are the initial results that we're seeing at this point in time.
00:45:53.440 --> 00:46:17.199
And I guess not opening it up for a forum of how to, but just saying these are the things and this is the uh real frustration that I'm feeling at the moment, so I can bring them in without them feeling devalued or under overwhelmed by um our lack of growth at this point in time.
00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:30.719
So it's a it's uh it's been really good in terms of reflecting, and I'd like to see how I guess the coaching conversation like we've had is to is another possibility as well as I'm thinking this through as well.
00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:31.440
Okay, yeah.
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:31.679
Okay.
00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:50.079
So modeling modeling what we've done in terms of so you you know, reflecting on that, what I just said is if you open up for um if you open up to a whole forum uh you'll be don't you'll be getting all different sorts of answers.
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:55.679
So is that the construct of how to actually to do that or not?
00:46:55.679 --> 00:47:00.559
So that's the that's that's we go back to leadership, that is leadership, right?
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:05.199
It's to decide when and how to put that into the forum.
00:47:05.199 --> 00:47:05.760
Yes.
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:08.880
And how we can all share the same vision together.
00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:10.320
Awesome.
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:17.440
So uh just just to put a full stop on the coaching, what was useful from that conversation?
00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:18.719
Yeah, good, yeah.
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:22.000
Well, thanks for the role play and thank you for those uh listening.
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:27.039
And I hope you did relate to there's some relatable things that we did discuss.
00:47:27.039 --> 00:47:33.039
I like the how you you I like the fact that you didn't jump in.
00:47:33.039 --> 00:47:46.000
I liked how you allowed me to think through the thoughts that was really coming through because if you heard Annette deliberately intensively, she could have jumped in multiple times.
00:47:46.000 --> 00:48:06.239
So you deliberately were and that's a skill in itself to not because I'm sure you you would have had ample amount of things to help me fix that, but you allowed me through that process of thinking that through, and you let me think that through, and you meant let me think that it's not all doom and gloom.
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:14.159
We are, and it made me think it's not all doom and gloom, even though I was looking at a statistic and uh percentage as we do as leaders.
00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:14.639
Yes.
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:26.880
So you allowed me to do the reflective thinking, and I liked I'm not sure if it was a deliberate intent of the where we what mark you would give and what where would you and you could give me the vision as well.
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:45.039
So the coaching conversation allowed me to freedom to think that through outward thoughts, which are inward thoughts, but outward thoughts help without judgment and without without you fixing the problem for me.
00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:46.000
Exactly.
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:46.400
Yeah.
00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:53.599
So there's principles that not as in role principle, yeah, but as in what is underneath this.
00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:54.400
Yeah.
00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:59.920
So one of the principles is around you are the expert in your world.
00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:00.960
Yep.
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:03.199
I'm just a guide on the side, yeah.
00:49:03.199 --> 00:49:05.760
Helping you get clarity of what you want.
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:09.920
Um, the other is I have a beginner's mind.
00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:15.760
So I'm not listening to you like that I'm the expert of this topic.
00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:17.280
Yeah, you're the expert.
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:18.079
Yeah.
00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:18.719
Yeah.
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:26.159
Um, and then the other is around um there's always progress that's been made.
00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:28.719
How do we magnify that progress?
00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:31.519
So that's why I use the scale.
00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:32.000
Yeah.
00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:32.639
Yeah.
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:38.400
But I spent most of that conversation was around what are you aiming for?
00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:40.960
What does that look like in concrete detail?
00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:48.079
So were there a few times you gave me a uh there'll be more engagement, or um, I'll observe engage.
00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:50.800
So what would that look like if you noticed that?
00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:51.199
Yeah.
00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:51.440
Yeah.
00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:55.519
So we ground it and make it as concrete as possible.
00:49:55.519 --> 00:50:08.800
Because so much time gets in every different work context of trying to unpack the root cause of the problem and the solution's not going to be there.
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:11.199
The solution is going to be there.
00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:13.119
How come we're a six?
00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:22.400
Where we've seen spikes and p and students, you know, some classrooms have made more progress than others.
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:23.119
How come?
00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:23.599
Yeah.
00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:26.320
What was it in that classroom that made the progress?
00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:28.159
I could have gone a lot of places.
00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:28.400
Yeah.
00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:31.760
You know, that I was conscious of of the time as well.
00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:32.960
And yeah.
00:50:32.960 --> 00:50:36.719
And so it was a it was a great reflective.
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:48.079
So if in terms of just putting that into reality, is that a checkpoint like how you were led as well, and how how, you know, go back to that question of how do I fit everything in?
00:50:48.079 --> 00:51:09.119
Yeah, is that what people could learn through the work of, you know, through your work and through your coaching courses that at that time, and I've myself, you know, well researched, but just that colleagues listening, you could hear the thinking pattern through without judgment.
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:24.639
And that is a it's such a it's an easy thing to say, but the practice of doing is the is is the doing of the work and seeing where and I loved how at the end you could see what is that, what could that look like.
00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:29.599
So you gave the vision and it gave that reflective, and it's not all doom and gloom.
00:51:29.599 --> 00:51:31.280
No, exactly.
00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:31.679
Yeah.
00:51:31.679 --> 00:51:35.679
And how are you feeling at the end of that conversation?
00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:36.000
Yeah.
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:40.239
I can hear your motivation to keep going on this.
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:40.639
Yeah.
00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:40.880
Yeah.
00:51:40.880 --> 00:51:41.280
Yeah.
00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:41.519
Yeah.
00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:43.679
And that's what you leave people with.
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:49.760
And our conversation went a bit longer than you need it to be.
00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:52.719
It can be just your two-minute conversation.
00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:57.360
You help people go back to what's worked.
00:51:57.360 --> 00:51:58.960
What can we build on?
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:05.039
That's the main aim of coaching is to help if people get unstuck, help people.
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:06.639
You're responsible for that.
00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:16.559
I can't shadow you every part of your day to go, come on, be more engaged or whatever, um, around these maths fundamentals.
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:20.880
But it's how do you empower people to take responsibility?
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:29.199
And in terms of from a leader's perspective, listening, going, yeah, that's great, but I don't generally have a spare 15 minutes.
00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:48.559
Or when you think about it, maybe you could or should or try, because that is actually, I mean, in terms of the gift of coaching and that conversation can lead to a lot of external motivation and intrinsic motivation to lead further and reflect upon that.
00:52:48.559 --> 00:52:57.840
So there's two ways to look at that, isn't there, in terms of your availability and making sure how you can support support colleagues through coaching.
00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:04.880
Yeah, and I think I think if we reframe it to it's just the way you have conversations.
00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:05.360
Yeah.
00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:07.760
Rather than I'm going to do coaching.
00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:09.119
Yeah.
00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:11.920
It's just we do more asking and less telling.
00:53:11.920 --> 00:53:12.239
Yeah.
00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:15.920
You know, even down to the essence of what it is.
00:53:15.920 --> 00:53:20.400
And that goes back to the Danny conversation.
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:22.239
That's what he was doing.
00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:22.880
Yeah.
00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:24.639
It gave me autonomy.
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:27.760
It empowered me to take responsibility.
00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:35.119
And I stepped up and took responsibility because of just the way he had conversations with me.
00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:42.400
So it doesn't necessarily only it's one-to-one, but it can be in those one hour professional development.
00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:43.440
Where are we now?
00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:45.440
We said we wanted to be here.
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:47.280
What progress have we made?
00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:48.960
What's the next step we're going to take?
00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:54.320
So it can be distilled down to really short conversations as well.
00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:57.679
Or even having the practicing of the conversation during the one hour.
00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:05.599
Imagine then the power of that uh multiplying itself from that into how do we actually we're going to practice within the time frame.
00:54:05.599 --> 00:54:06.000
Yes.
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:07.840
But this can go beyond the one hour.
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:11.440
So that's another thought process that's just think dripping that through.
00:54:11.440 --> 00:54:12.159
Definitely.
00:54:12.159 --> 00:54:19.039
In that one hour could be the AP's work with their team of teachers to go, where are we now?
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:21.679
What seem what are you noticing that's working?
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:22.000
Yeah.
00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:22.239
Yeah.
00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:24.800
You know, so it's sharing that progress.
00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:25.280
Yeah.
00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:26.320
Really important.
00:54:26.320 --> 00:54:28.320
Look, I love our conversations.
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:30.719
It's uh always a pleasure.
00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:35.519
Um, and I hope listeners, you've got something from our conversation today.
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:38.880
It's been we've gone through the big topics, haven't we?
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:47.280
Reflecting now, we've gone through what is leadership, what is an effective to be a leader today, how do I fit everything in?
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:49.760
How do I lead as a coach?
00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:52.880
And and that example of our role play today.
00:54:52.880 --> 00:55:06.400
I'm just reflecting on all the things we've covered in terms of of leadership, and and you can hear the passion and the the real experience that Annette brings in our rich conversation today.
00:55:06.400 --> 00:55:13.760
Imagine having two days and working that through, and that's in store for us today, Annette.
00:55:13.760 --> 00:55:16.880
We have some coaching uh courses coming up this year.
00:55:16.880 --> 00:55:20.880
Could you just share what options we have through the association?
00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:22.159
When what dates?
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:26.880
So put these in your we are at one takeaway, put something in your diary now.
00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:37.599
When when are these courses and where and so we've got the face-to-face workshop happening here at Ultimo in the um PPA office?
00:55:37.599 --> 00:55:38.320
Yep.
00:55:38.320 --> 00:55:41.760
So that's in July, um, late July.
00:55:41.760 --> 00:55:42.239
Yep.
00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:48.239
Um, and so yeah, that's an opportunity for Sydney-based people or others who want to come in.
00:55:48.239 --> 00:55:58.079
You've been inspired by this, you can travel, as you know, to to our beautiful to our beautiful office and have this rich conversation.
00:55:58.079 --> 00:55:58.960
Absolutely.
00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:01.280
And there's another offering as well in August.
00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:13.519
And then in August for those people in regional areas, we we we're doing it online or in Western Sydney or play people who can't make those dates in July.
00:56:13.519 --> 00:56:20.559
Uh, there's an online version of the programme, and that goes over four three and a half hour modules.
00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:23.280
Um, and that's going to be in August.
00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:27.360
So all these dates can be in the show notes and links to register.
00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:31.760
Absolutely, and we look forward to you putting that into your diary.
00:56:31.760 --> 00:56:33.679
We hope we you've got a lot.
00:56:33.679 --> 00:56:36.639
I've got a lot out of our coaching conversation.
00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:38.639
Always a pleasure to have you, Annette.
00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:39.679
Thank you again for your time.
00:56:39.679 --> 00:56:45.360
Thank you so much, Drew, and um hopefully you can take your next step actions around what I coached you on.
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:47.599
Well, we can come back to that as well.
00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:48.719
Thank you again.
00:56:48.719 --> 00:56:49.760
Thanks.
00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:53.280
What a conversation.
00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:57.440
I hope that one landed for you because it really did for me.
00:56:57.440 --> 00:57:08.159
We covered a lot of ground today, what leadership actually is right now, what it genuinely takes to be effective, how to make time for it all, and what it really looks like to lead as a coach.
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:13.360
And that live coaching moment at the end, that's the part I think you'll keep coming back to.
00:57:13.360 --> 00:57:18.800
What I love about Annette is the experience she brings, but also how honest she is.
00:57:18.800 --> 00:57:26.079
It's not all doom and gloom, there is a way through, and it starts with some pretty simple shifts in how you show up.
00:57:26.079 --> 00:57:28.239
So here's your one takeaway.
00:57:28.239 --> 00:57:30.719
Put something in your diary today.
00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:41.199
What you just heard me experience, that's solution-focused coaching, is exactly what Annette teaches in her foundations program running through the association this year.
00:57:41.199 --> 00:57:46.000
One principal who's already done it is John O'Combs from Artamon Public School.
00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:49.840
He called it the most practical coaching training of his career.
00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:51.920
That's a pretty good endorsement.
00:57:51.920 --> 00:57:53.840
There are two ways to get involved.
00:57:53.840 --> 00:58:04.400
If you're in or near Sydney, there's a two-day workshop at the New South Wales Primary Principal's Association office in Ultimo on Tuesday the 28th and Wednesday the 29th of July.
00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:13.199
If getting to Sydney isn't easy, or two full days just doesn't work right now, there's an online version running across four mornings in August.
00:58:13.199 --> 00:58:16.559
The 11th, 13th, 18th, and 20th.
00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:19.840
From 9am to 12.30pm each day.
00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:24.159
Both options include follow-up coaching check-ins to help it really stick.
00:58:24.159 --> 00:58:26.719
The links for both are in the show notes.
00:58:26.719 --> 00:58:32.079
Go there now, pick your date, and register while it's right in front of you.
00:58:32.079 --> 00:58:34.000
Don't just listen and move on.
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:35.760
Take that next step.
00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:40.000
Thanks so much for being here, and we'll see you next time.