What It’s Like When You Call a Probate Law Firm

Welcome to probate problems and practical solutions. Welcome back to probate problems and practical solutions with Carly Whiteside, owner of Copper Wren Law in Mesa, Arizona. Copper Wren Law focuses on probate litigation, guardianship, conservatorship and trust administration across the state. I'm Leanne Lyon and today we are walking through what happens when someone contacts a probate law firm for the first time. Carly is joined by April, the firm's receptionist and Emily, the firm's law clerk, to explain how the intake process works and what families can expect from that first call forward. Carly, when somebody reaches out to a probate law firm for the first time, what is the main goal of that initial contact? The main goal is for us to kind of get the information we need to open their file. And what that means is we need the relationship that this person had with the person that passed away because there's Arizona laws that are in place that only certain people can do certain things. So we want to make sure we're talking to the right person first and foremost. Something else that we need is basically kind of everybody involves information. And the reason that we need that, even if they're not talking to this person or they're not going to be involved in the basically representation with our firm is because law firms have to do something called a conflict check. And that's basically what that means is we've got to make sure that we have no affiliations with this matter at all. And an example of that would be mom passed away, there's two siblings. One sibling called us, we'll just call sibling A, has a consult with the attorney, Elizabeth Cole. And we decide we're not going to engage or they decide we're not the right fit. They went with somebody else personality, price, lots of different reasons, they're not ready to proceed. What have you? And then maybe a couple of weeks later, sibling B calls us. So we would run there, you know, mom's name through siblings and go, we've already talked to one sibling that automatically disqualifies us from talking to the second sibling because if they are doing this, we have we have inside information now. So at that point, we would have to decline even having a consultation, but the sticky wicket with that is we can't tell them it's for a conflict because then we're admitting we've spoken to their sibling. So we have to kind of in a roundabout, we'd be like, oh, we're not taking new cases right now. We're busy or the attorney doesn't have capacity for this kind of matter. We basically have to decline without telling them, which can be very weird, very odd. And Miss April is usually the one that has to navigate that. But that's kind of what that first call is all about is give us the cliff notes of what's going on. We got to make sure it's even something we do. A lot of people will call us out of confusion. And maybe it's a family lock case or maybe nope, you're better served by a real estate attorney, which we do have referrals for. Sure. Well, the cat's out of the bag now. We know what it means if you're too busy, but you'll never know April, you're usually the first person somebody speaks to, as Carly said, what do those first conversations tend to sound like for you? It's a lot of gaining personal information, like Carly mentioned, general name, phone number or email, that sort of thing. And then it really is just getting a broad spectrum of what is going on in the matter. So I can get as much information without taking up too much time to pass along to our attorney Elizabeth so she can review it or Emily so they can review it before the consultation. Definitely going through specific documents that we may need prior to that consultation and just kind of really making sure that I get as much as I can in a short amount of time for the the attorneys to be able to go into that consultation with kind of a broad spectrum of what they're walking into. So you mentioned many of the initial pieces that they need, but what can wait until later, so that that first conversation remains short? Gosh, that's a good question. I would say, like specific nitty-gritty details. So I very much word it as, give me a high level of what's been going on. And you know, what we have to understand is that a lot of times these people are coming to us in a very emotional state. So being able to navigate their emotions, make sure they feel seen and heard, but also kind of keep them on track of just, I just need names of people involved, dates, addresses of maybe the homes involved, any sort of asset information, and then the emotional stuff that they tend to want to tell me, and I'll listen as much as I can, but the emotional stuff I try to say, okay, let's kind of bring it back to the points, the big points. Or that makes sense. And in fact, some of these people may have never contacted a law firm before, so they may be a little nervous. So what did that first call typically involve from start to finish? So it definitely is just a general rundown of their personal information. So I try and make it as easy as possible so they're not nervous, because I know I would be if I was calling a law firm for the first time. So really just personal information, email, phone number, anybody involved, like Carly mentioned, and then just what's going on? Tell me what's going on for you. And I feel like because I try and keep it casual, that lets them open up to me maybe in an easier way than calling other bigger law firms or whatever it may be where it's a lot more formal, or they're talking to a phone service. And it was really important to me that I keep this firm as in house as possible. I do not want to outsource the intake, I do not want to outsource the billing. April has been wonderful. She was like pretty much my first hire after just me and my attorney got started and was part time. And then I brought her on full time because she's just amazing and I had to bribe her and I would do it again. And I tell her all the time, please don't ever leave me. She's lovely. She's extremely empathetic, extremely kind. And so she is literally the perfect person for me to be in the front of my law firm that somebody first calls because she really does care. Emily cares, I care, that's a big part of what we do and why we do it. And I've even noticed when we call other firms to get an appointment or what have you, a lot of the times they pick up the phone and say the name of the firm. They're like copyright law. Is it my turn? What am I doing? Okay. It's weird. And so Miss April will, you know, we've modified her agreement to be like copyright law. You know, how can I help you? What can I do for you? Basically, make it more personal because as April mentioned, this is super emotional. And nine times out of 10, this is the first time they're interacting with the law firm. They have no idea what to expect. Everybody watches TV, everybody's heard horror stories. And so we really strive to make sure that we don't fit into that mold and we break their expectation because this area is just way too personal to kind of be so stoic. And you know, I understand the larger firms, they've got to cut it down because they're moving and grooving. It's just a different level. My goal with this firm is to keep it for attorneys or less. That is intentional. And the reason I do that is because I want to keep this intact. This is what's important. So by April being our first person and having that basically empathy and understanding and listening, and she's great at redirecting without it sounding like she's like, okay, stop, shut up. Let's get back to it. And in some firms do act that way. I mean, I've had it done to me as a as a fellow like paralegal to paralegal. And so we really, really want to make sure that when you call us, you know that we're here for you. That's really sweet. And that's such a great front person that you have here with April. Well, Emily, once the initial information is collected, how does the matter move through the firm and where does your role fit in? So our managing attorney Elizabeth is the one that will decide the direction and kind of scope of the case. So sometimes when we come up on a more novel issue, she might have me do some research to see which direction would be best forced to proceed. And then from there, we will speak with the client to get more details, just to fill out any opening paperwork that we would need to file with the court. Also, Ms. Emily is being extremely modest. She is locked lurk for right now. And probably by the time this episode is published, she will be a full attorney. We are just waiting on her number from the Arizona bar. So when people contact the firm, they're either going to have a consultation with Elizabeth Cole, who's our managing attorney, or they're going to have Ms. Emily, who will be an attorney. Like I said, probably by the time this episode comes out, and consultations are always with a licensed attorney, even though April and I may do an intake call. Sometimes if their issue is odd, Ms. April will put them on my calendar for maybe a 15-minute call for me to really dig in, is this something we do? Is there even an issue here? And I explain to them, I'm not the attorney, I can't give you legal advice, I'm just trying to drill down a little bit more, because they can be very novel, to which Emily will have to do research, because we do get some weird ones. And I'm kind of building my firm on the weird ones, because I've got other attorneys that go, I have a weird one, please call Copper Anne, please don't call me, I cannot do this. And so she's been great in her capacity as a law clerk to really suss out, what is the best way to do this, present this to Elizabeth Cole, and then for her to make that final decision. But Ms. Emily will start taking on her own clients, so it's entirely possible when you call our firm, you'll be either with Emily or Elizabeth, you may be with both. And it's important to note that we do not charge for our consultations, generally. If you call me with something that's a little funkier weird, I might say, hey, we need to charge for this consultation, you've got a lot going on, you're going to need an hour, the 30 minutes is not going to cut it. But what I do is, if they decide to engage, I credit that time that they paid towards their matter. So if they pay for a consultation and end up engaging with our firm, then they get that as a credit on their next bill. So it's not lost, right? But with the understanding that on some of these, there's just so many things happening that we do have to charge the time, because Elizabeth and or Emily have to do a lot of work before they even talk to the client. Maybe there's a lot of documents they need to go through, because we really strive for that consultation to be productive, which is why April is so important, because she can kind of get the nitty-gritty kind of points, and grab deeds for us, get the copy of the trust, copy of the will, that way Elizabeth and Emily really can tell the client during the consult, here's your legal options, rather than rehashing, I'm really sorry that they called you and were mean to you, because it's relevant, but it's not legally relevant. And when you're on a time crunch with the consultation, it's important to keep it real focused. And that's kind of, I agree, I think maybe that's a good role for me as well, I let them get the emotional stuff somewhat out with me, and then I really tell them you have 30 minutes with Elizabeth and Emily, make it count, you've got 30 minutes free of our time, go really dial in what you want to talk with them about, so that you get exactly your path coming out of that phone call, and you know exactly which way you're going to go, and all your answers are going to be, questions are going to be answered, so that's, I agree. Well, first of all, congratulations, Emily, for all of your hard work and your future success, I'm sure everybody is, it sounds like everybody is cheering you on and very excited for you. What kinds of documents, when you talk about this 30 minute consultation, what kind of documents or details are most useful to have in place versus the ones that don't need to be ready for that consultation? So, often because we deal with trusts or wills, those documents will be essential for Elizabeth and myself to review prior to the consultation, additionally, if you've had any contact with other parties or other beneficiaries, that's important to provide that as well, just as useful background. Any, some people will tell us, I got a letter from my siblings attorney, please give us a letter. I believe you that it was a snotty letter, I need to see it. To Emily's point, people will try to ask us questions like, well my mom died and there's a trust, what do I get? And we have to say, I have no idea, because I have to see the trust, they are so customizable, so personalized, so it's really important that when you call a law firm, you give them as much information and copies of documents you can, otherwise that time with the attorney is not going to be helpful, because you're going to get that typical lawyer answer of, well it depends, it depends, it depends, and then you spent 30 minutes, you're like, I don't feel any better off, so April also is great on the day before going into the consultations the next day, making sure we did receive them, following up, if not, and saying, hey, we're going to have to move your consultation because you're going to waste your 30 minutes, it's not helpful or useful, so we do try to help potential clients as well, kind of understand the importance of, like if you don't know, you don't know, that's okay, that happens, right? But if you've got it, it's really important that we have copies of it so that Elizabeth can say, well, according to page 8, you get, or whatever the case may be, and Emily as well for her to be able to answer those specific questions. What are some of the common concerns or misunderstandings that people have about calling a probate firm that don't reflect how the process actually works? I'll let the ladies go, but I know I've noticed that sometimes when people speak to Elizabeth or when they speak to Emily, when they've had contact with an attorney, they think we're engaged, they think we're their counsel, and that's not the case. After you have the consultation, you would sign something called an engagement agreement, and then you would remit payment, whether it's a flat fee hourly, whatever the case may be, that's in the engagement agreement, it's gone over during the consultation, I'm always available to clarify after some of these questions, but once we have a sign engagement agreement and funds, that's when you've officially retained us as counsel, and sometimes people think just because I've talked to an attorney and now they're my attorney, and that is not correct, because another thing people don't understand is Elizabeth and Emily have the right to say, I'm not going to represent you, and just like the client says, I don't want to hire you. No one's forced into this, but I think a lot of the times people maybe have the misconception that, well, of course you want my business, of course you want my money, and my firm does not operate that way. There are many people that will come to us, and we could maybe do something, but Elizabeth and Emily look at it and go, it would be wasted. There's no point. We could do it, but your chance of success is like so minimal that we don't feel comfortable even doing it, because we don't feel like it would result in anything. And that's been hard for some people to hear, because I know in my experience most firms, they're like, yeah, there's not a chance, we'll take your money and see it didn't work by, and we just don't do that. So that's what I've noticed when it comes to people contacting us for the first time. Well, as we wrap up here for today, for someone who's been hesitating to call because they're unsure of what to say or what will happen next, what perspective would you want to offer? I just think it's a friendly conversation, like it's it's very, I don't want to use the word informal, but I want it to, I definitely feel like it's a, it's probably more comfortable than they realize, just to call and have a very comfortable conversation to get the ball rolling. And then to have just an honest conversation with our attorneys, I feel like they're very, very good at telling you if, if you have something or you don't, and like, like Carly just mentioned. So I don't know, I just say versus other firms probably, you're going to get a much different feel when you call us. Another thing I think is it's, it's okay not to know, necessarily everything that you're talking about. I think a lot of people for some reason assume that Elizabeth might judge if they don't know all of the terms and you're not expected to. They're very technical and it is very complex. That's why we're here. So we want to help you and it's okay. That's a beautiful soft touch to wrap up this episode of probate problems and practical solutions with Carly Whiteside of Cooper Wren Law. To learn more about how Carly and her amazing teams support Arizona families through probate guardianship and trust administration, visit CooperwrenLaw.com. Thanks for listening in and remember to like, leave a review and subscribe to the show so you don't miss the next episode. Thank you ladies. Thanks for watching. Be sure to hit that like and subscribe button and leave us a review in the comments.