Church & State -The Risen Ministry with Dr.Tim Chaffey

WEBVTT
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Spokane Valley could become a sanctuary city.
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A different housman, Caleb Collier says that this I'm.
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Proposing that the City of Spokane Valley issue a proclamation
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stating that our city is a Second Amendment sanctuary.
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Welcome to the fire.
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Today on Church and State, there is a ministry with
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doctor Tim Chaffey. Hello Christian Patriots, and welcome to Church
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and State, where we drive morality and religion over tolerance
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and apathy. And I'm your host, Caleb Callier, once again,
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your favorite far right shock jock and the show that
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talks about politics and religion. Jesus Christ is our referee,
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so it's always nice and clean. Real quick, I'm going
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if you want to get a hold of us, Church
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and State seventeen seventy six at Proton dot me.
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With that, let's get into it now.
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I am excited to bring on our guest doctor Tim Chafey.
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He is an incredible individual.
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He works as a content manager for the attractions divisions
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at Answers in Genesis that's right, the Creation Museum, the
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arc and Counter. Many of you have probably been there.
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You married, does incredible work as a as an athlete
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doing some well jogs. I suppose his best to say.
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He's also six foot eight and we're going to be
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discussing the nephelim on today's episode. So, doctor Tim, it
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is awesome to have you on the show.
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Caleb, thanks so for having me on. Looking forward to it,
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and yeah six point eight. That's one of the reasons
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why I got into this topic in the first place.
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People kept calling me a giant or nepoline all the time,
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and I thought, let me see what that's.
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Really all about.
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Yeah, it makes sense.
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So you were sharing off air that because your your
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name is Tim, it was Tim or something like that.
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Yeah.
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My boss at Answers and ken Ham or our CEO
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and founder, he jokes by he called me neffle Tim.
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But I guess since I brought up a g I
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should mention that what we're going to be talking about
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today is something that as a ministry we don't get
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into We have differences of opinion on that, and that's fine.
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We still get along great and work for the ministry's
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mission that God has called us to do. But but
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we are allowed to talk about this on our own
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and that's what we're doing.
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So I got to say, I love that.
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I think more Christians need to have that at these
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secondary issues.
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You know, these aren't primary. You know, this doesn't what your.
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Belief is about the giants isn't going to you know,
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God's not going to look at it and say, well,
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you don't get into heaven now. No, we can have
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conversations and still be friends at the end of the day, right.
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I mean, I wouldn't be worried about it because I
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got the right view, but I'd be worried for my friends.
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If it were.
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I love that. I absolutely love that.
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Let's break that down a little bit because there are
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two primary schools of thought when it comes to discussions
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about the Giant or the giants, and kind of going
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off of well, going off with Genesis six y four.
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There you and I believe that the fallen angels came
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and made it with humankind and created these hybrid half
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angelic half human beings called the Nephelim. And then there
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are others who believe that this is just the lineage
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of Seth and they weren't supposed to mate with you know,
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the I guess Cain's ancestry, right.
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Yeah, that's the probably the next most popular view, you know,
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in the for a lay level Christianity. There's a third
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view that's pretty popular amongst scholars, and that is that
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the sons of God who took the daughters of men,
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the sons of God would be like rulers or nobles
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who were taking women into their harems, and so then
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their sin would be would be polygamy, and that's what
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being condemned there. So that one's pretty popular among some scholars.
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And so really there's three views, but for a lot
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of people in the public, it's the two that you outlined.
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So, I mean, it does lead to the question of
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how did the other two belief systems? How did giants
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emerge out of this?
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Yeah, And that's a great question because they don't really
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have an answer for it. What they do is they
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look at Genesis six four and a lot of our
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English Bibles are rather ambiguous.
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Here.
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For example, here is the New American Standards says there
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were giants. That's the word nephiline, right there, There were
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giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward
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when the sons of God came into the daughters of
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men and they bore children to them. Those were the
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mighty men who were of bold men every now and
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and so they look at it and say, well, the
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giants were already there when this was taking place, And
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it doesn't say that they were the result of these
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unions between the sons of God and the daughters of men.
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Actually the Hebrew does.
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The Hebrew were translated as when is the word asher,
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And if we look at our various Hebrew grammars, they'll
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say that in this instance, because of the construction, it
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refers to an event that happened in the past and
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at regular or irregular intervals since then. So, in other words, whenever,
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if we read it that way, then it clarifies the
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whole that whole passage about who the Nephelene were. There
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were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward,
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whenever the sons of God came into the daughters of men.
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So the nephiline are the result of those unions, and yeah,
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the sons of Seth mating with the daughters of Cain
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doesn't doesn't produce.
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Giants, No, it would not.
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Yeah, and then there are a lot of other problems
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with that view as well. I mean the way that
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they use the word man in in those first four verses.
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And now it came to pass when men began to
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multiply on the face of the earth. That's mankind in
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general as referring to all mankind, and daughters were born
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to them. So daughters born to all mankind. Then it says,
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but the sons of God saw the daughters of men.
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Then they're like, well, the daughters of men, that's the
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line of Cain. No, the daughters of men in verse two,
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the same as the daughters who were born to men
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in general in verse one. There's no reason why you
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should think of them as being all daughters of men
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in verse one. And suddenly now it's just this line
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of Cain. And then in verse three you're back to
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all men. In verse four, they're back to just the
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men in just this one line. And so they're kind
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of picking and choosing what they want the terms to mean,
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rather than just reading consistently.
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Sure.
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I mean that's to me when I read through the
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Word of God, this is what makes the most sense
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to me. And certainly with you know, giants emerging and
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really being a terror upon the earth, I don't see
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any other way that this happens unless fallen angels mate
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with humankind. And really it also speaks to you know,
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Satan's schemes, you know, Satan's Satan and the angels that
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joined him, the third of angels that joined him. Ever
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since really the beginning we can read in the Garden
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of Eden, Satan has been on this destructive path to
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create chaos, to destroy what God intended, and certainly for
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in my view, mating with humankind and creating these hybrids
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that are not actual God's creation.
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I think that adds up.
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Yeah, it seems to be part of the the effort
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there in Genesis sixes. I mean, it doesn't really give
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us a motive other than it tells us in verse
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two that they saw the daughter of the men were beautiful.
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So whether it's lust or something is involved. But that
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doesn't mean there can't be other motives as well. But
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I think you hit on something important there when you
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if I can take a minute here to try to explain.
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This might be a little confusing for some people to
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think through. But when we think about how to read
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Genesis one, well really all of Genesis, not just Genesis
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one three eleven, which one came first in terms of
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but like think of the original audience. The original audience
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for this book would have been the Israelites at or
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shortly after Mount Sinai. You know, maybe during that forty
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years of wilderness wandering and right after Sinai had the
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spies going to the land and they see the Anachem
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names three of them in numbers thirteen. The narrator tells
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us that they're there. So Moses tells us that the
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spies saw three giants in the land, then tells us
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later on at the end of numbers thirteen that the
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Anachem or of the nepheline, so they know there's giants
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in land. Deuteronomy two and Deudonomy three tells us that
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talks about og the king of Bashan, and it tells
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us that there are giants in and around the land.
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So when Moses is writing Genesis and he says the
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nepheline were on the earth in those days, he's talking
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about before the flood and also afterward. So after the flood, well,
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they knew that because they're.
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Seeing them, oh like the refeem.
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Yeah.
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Actually, the Bible tells us that Ogg was the last
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of the Rafaeim. That's another word that means giants. But
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then there were the giant tribes as well, them the Zamzumm.
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The Bible talks about them. The Amorites are described later
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on in Amos as being their height as like the oak,
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so it describes them as giants as well. So there's
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giants throughout the land and all along the border of
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the land. And when Moses writes that passage in Genesis
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six about the Sons of God and the nepheline, his
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original audience, the israelitess would have known exactly who he's
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talking about because they know nepheline means giants and they
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know that's what it's referring to. It doesn't mean fallen
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ones or something like that that a lot of people
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today think it means. And they know who the sons
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of God are because Dude only thirty two also mentions
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them in two different places, and it's referring to angelic
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beings so that original audience would have understood this passage
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as being about these angelic beings who rebelled against God
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and made it with women and produced giants. And it
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happened before the flood, and it happened after the flood.
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Yeah, And that actually leads me to a question I
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was going to ask you. So there's a lot of
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confusion as to how there was a second incursion. If
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some of the giants survived the flood there, if they
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came down a second.
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Time and made it again, what are your thoughts on that.
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I think Genesis six four gives us the clue that
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we need if we understand that understand ascher to be
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translated as whenever the nepheline were on the earth in
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those days before the flood, and also afterward after the flood,
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whenever the sons of God came into the daughters of
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men and board children to them. These were the mighty
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men of all men every now and so whenever they
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did that, which would be before the flood and after the flood.
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The Bible is pretty clear that only eight people survived
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the flood, and it's Noah has wiped their three sons,
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and then the daughters in law, Noah's daughters in law,
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So there nepheline were not on the arc at all,
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and it seems like part one of the purposes of
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the flood is to wipe them out, So why would
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God allow somebody with that genetic makeup on the arc,
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So that that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.
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But if we understand Genesis sixty four as saying whenever
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instead of when, I think we have our answer to.
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It, it's really interesting. So theoretically it could happen again.
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I think that it could well.
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Possibly the one Peter versus Peter and Jude tell us
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that the ones who were engaged in that are being
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held in chains or in prison until the day of judgment,
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and so those ones are not able to do it again.
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Is it possible that there are other angels with the
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same capacity, the same abilities that are able to do that. Maybe,
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But I don't know that it's necessary because if you
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think of back then it seems as that they're trying
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to prevent God's word from coming to pass. So, like
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you talked about this before the flood, you know, corrupting this,
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corrupting humanity so that God's not going to bring about
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his promise that there'd be a seat of the woman
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who is going to destroy the serpent. But after the flood,
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you have God telling Abraham in Genesis fifteen. He says
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that they're at the Oaks of Memory, which is in Hebron,
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and he tell them, your descendants are going to go
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down to a land that's not their own. They're going
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to serve them and be oppressed for four hundred years.
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Of course, I was talking about Egypt, and then I'm
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going to bring them back here. And because the iniquity
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of the Amorites are not yet complete, so God's going
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to judge this group of people, the Amorites, but not yet.
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He's being patient. But he's in Hebron when he says
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that when the spies going to the land and Moses
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tells us that they saw three of the giants, three
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of the Anachem.
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Where were they in Hebron. Yeah.
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Yeah, it's almost like Satan, because Satan can't know God's
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plan until God announces God's plan. And I think he
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could have heard what God said to Abram and thought,
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I'm going to make sure that that doesn't happen. And
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so it seems like he had puts the headquarters of
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the nefeline right there in Hebron, the one place where
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God say he's going to bring back And it's not
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like Satan can work God's plan. It seems like he's
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trying to. But back then, how did you win a battle? Well,
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who's ever the biggest and the strongest? Right now, if
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you know, if our enemy had a giant or something
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big deal, we'd launch a cruise, missile or something else
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from me one hundreds of miles away. It's more about
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here and technology than it is about brute strength. So
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I don't know that it would even be necessary to
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do something like that today.
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Well, let me ask you a question about present times,
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because the US government is quite the enigma for me
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and for many others.
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But for the longest time, if you brunt.
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Up aliens, UFOs, anything like that, the government was massive
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cover ups. You know, it was a weather balloon, nothing
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to see here, kind of a mentality. And just as
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of late they really opened it up. And now they're
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declassifying things and saying, yes, you know, we have had
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encounters with with UFOs, with with other worldly beings. To
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me personally, when I look at this, I see demonic.
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If somebody is dealing with an alien entity, you're dealing
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with a demon, and I stand firm on that. But
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do you see the potential for another incursion here with
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the Nephilim, with these demonic entities as we potentially maybe
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come into the end of days?
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Not necessarily. I do agree that some of the UFO
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alien activity, all of that kind of stuff that people report,
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I don't think all of those are just weather balloons.
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I don't think they're all just swamp gas or something.
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Is that what it was in Men in Black? I
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don't think it's just all that.
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I think there are times where people just see something
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that had nothing to do with demons and they just
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don't know what it is. But I think there are
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enough reports, especially with the abduction scenarios, where people claim
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to have been abducted, but when they cry out to
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Jesus for help, suddenly it instantly stops. And so that
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would lead me tobly that, yeah, there are some of
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these cases where it is demonic, and I look at
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that as more of a I mean, it could be
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similar to what we're talking about. But I think that
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Satan in a sense views himself as having two roles
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prevent people from becoming saved, from getting saved, and those
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who are saved make them ineffective. And so if you
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can distract them, you can get them focused on anything
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other than Jesus.
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Do that.
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And for people who are, you know, maybe even considering
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Christianity and then suddenly, oh wait, are there aliens from
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other planets? Well then we're not all that special. And
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the Bible seems to imply that we're special, that this
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is where God made man. But if there's creatures all
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over the place, then maybe it really is just made
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up in the Bible. But I don't believe that there
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is life from other planets. If God wanted to do that,
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he could, but there's no indication in scripture that he
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did anything like that. Earth is the focal point of
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his plan. He made it before he made the other planets,
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and this is where he sent his son to die,
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to become a human being, to die for human beings.
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And so I don't think there's any reason to think
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that there truly are.
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Aliens.
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But what people I think sometimes are seeing maybe is
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something that is probably is demonic.
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Yeah, I love what you just said there, and in
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fact I subscribe to a geocentric universe. I believe we
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truly are the center of the universe, and the universe
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is is expanding away from a focal point. I believe
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that's that's us, that we are that focal point, and
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I base that off of the Bible.
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Okay, well I would have a different view, but obviously
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that is not a salvation issue where we have to
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exmunicate each other because we don't understand because we have
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a different understanding of how our solar system or the
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universe itself works. And yeah, it's I think with any
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their system. We recognize that God's focus is here and
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Christ is our savior, and that the devil wants to
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prevent him from being, prevent him from saving people.
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So absolutely, let me ask you another question about this
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because my personal belief on this, and you know, I'm
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going to be basing it off the Bible, but there
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might not be things in the Bible that point directly
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to this, but I believe that they're in the in
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the healthscape, I suppose the best way to put it,
368
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there are fallen angels, and then I believe that demons
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are actually the disembodied souls of the Nephilim.
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What are your thoughts on that.
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Yeah, so that was a that view was common in
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the early Church, and it's somewhat common today among people
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who hold this view that we're talking about, that the
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sons of God were rebellious angels who made it with women.
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So I'm not convinced that that's accurate, that the demons
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are something different than the fallen angels.
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I see it as a possibility.
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I got a friend who, Doug van Dorn maybe you
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know who that is, wrote a book called Giants, and
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he has a whole chapter laying out the case for that,
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and in my book, I have one chapter where I
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show like his four or five best arguments and respond
383
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to those. One of the reason why I don't subscribe
384
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to that is because the word that you mentioned earlier,
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the rafayem in the historical books. So from when when's
386
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the first time it shows up in Deuteronomy? I think
387
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from Deuteronomy through First and Second Samuel forst Second Chronicles.
388
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When that word appears, it's referring to giants on the earth.
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You know, the like Goliath is called a rapha, which
390
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is singular for repayem, and so that word is referring
391
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to the physical giants who are on the earth. But
392
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when it's in the prophets, which were written after those books,
393
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that word appears several times, and each time it's referring
394
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to spirits who are in the underworld, in in shale
395
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that are waiting for somebody to die. It's like a
396
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taunt against somebody, like, hey, you thought you were you're
397
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going to be here, but instead you're going to be
398
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:10.039
brought low and oh you remember the refie. You're going
399
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:12.200
to run into them down there. And so it doesn't
400
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seem like their spirits are roaming the earth and free
401
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:18.640
to possess people.
402
00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:24.640
I think that they are are in shale and running
403
00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:24.920
around it.
404
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.319
So but I want to be dogmatic, and I think
405
00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:32.000
there's a lot of things about the afterlife and that
406
00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:36.640
the whole relationship between is shale different from haites or
407
00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:38.319
it's the same thing as there are different parts of haities.
408
00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:40.640
I mean, there's just a lot that the Bible gives
409
00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:43.200
us a little hints at, and then it's like, can
410
00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:45.200
we have another book that explains that more detail?
411
00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:48.079
But we don't get that excellent, Okay, So.
412
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With the with the you know that these giants that
413
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:57.079
that are written about in the Bible, and including you
414
00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:59.279
brought up Peter and Jude that they're talking about it
415
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as well. I do believe that humanity was able to
416
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:10.039
basically exterminate that bloodline entirely. Or is there still I
417
00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:13.519
guess as people would mate, you know that those those
418
00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:16.400
attributes that they that they're are described with these giants
419
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:19.279
would lessen and lesson and lesson. Is there still people
420
00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:24.720
potentially out there with Nephelin bloodlines in them?
421
00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:28.000
Yeah, it's a it's a good question. I I don't
422
00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:30.680
think so. And again, being six foot eight, I know
423
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.200
we joked before going on, I'm my fingers. Even though
424
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:36.319
the Bible didn't say that all of them were six fingers,
425
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:38.079
there's one who was described.
426
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:39.160
That with six fingers and six toes.
427
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But they disappear from the page of the scripture right
428
00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:50.000
around right after David's time. So David, mighty men kill
429
00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:53.839
some some of golias brothers or descendants, depending on how
430
00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:57.519
that's translated, and from that point on they're not really
431
00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:00.440
mentioned again, unless, like you talked about the demons in
432
00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:02.720
the New Testament, if those are the disembodied spirits of
433
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:06.000
the nephilin Uh, then then we'd see them there, but.
434
00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:13.000
I don't think, well, let me the way I describe them.
435
00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:13.319
I don't.
436
00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:15.839
I don't usually describe them as hybrids, like they're half
437
00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:16.559
angel half man.
438
00:22:16.599 --> 00:22:17.480
The Bible calls them men.
439
00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:19.880
They were mighty men of old, men of renown even,
440
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.359
and maybe the reason for that. I think the angels
441
00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:27.319
who did this took on human form to to procreate,
442
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:32.920
to commit this activity. So so I don't usually think
443
00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:36.200
of like having half angel blood and half human blood
444
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.359
like sometimes people will describe it. I think that they
445
00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:43.240
were fully human but large, and I don't think that
446
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:45.079
under the Giant was one of them. I don't think
447
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:48.079
that you know that I'm a descendant of them or anything.
448
00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:52.119
But I don't know that they were necessarily completely wiped
449
00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:56.680
out at David's time either. There there are legends from
450
00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:59.559
around the world that talk about giants in ancient times.
451
00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:02.880
Sometimes there are associated with the flood, sometimes not, sometimes afterward.
452
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And I think it's plausible or possible that some of
453
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them were not in Israeli or the land of Canaan,
454
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or maybe they fled from there when Joshua and Israelite
455
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came in to conquer the land. Maybe they fled and
456
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:19.720
reached distant places, and that's where some of the legends
457
00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:20.519
come from.
458
00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:24.799
Yeah, I mean, that's certainly my take. Pretty Much every
459
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:28.799
culture throughout history has stories of giants. Certainly in North
460
00:23:28.839 --> 00:23:31.079
America there's a lot of tales of this. You go
461
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:34.039
down into the South America, Central America, they all have
462
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:39.160
stories of giants, and so I think definitely they spread
463
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out throughout the world. As my personal belief, I suppose
464
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:46.640
they could have heard stories from, you know, the ancient
465
00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:50.440
Israelites and incorporated that into their own culture, but I
466
00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:53.279
tend to believe that they probably did exist in other
467
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lands as well.
468
00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:57.720
Yeah, it's also possible that they you know, as people
469
00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:00.400
spread out from Babel, they're taking their history with him.
470
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Everybody had a shared history at that point of creation,
471
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man being made from the dusk of the ground, man
472
00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:09.440
rebelling against God by eating the fruit after the serpent
473
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tempted Eve. Then giants in the land, and then there's
474
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a great flood and then the Babel event. And you
475
00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:17.720
find those details in a lot of cultures around the
476
00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:19.599
world before missionary to get there. So it seems even
477
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:22.359
though there's a lot of distortions, so it could be
478
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:25.200
a result of them just passing that tradition of that
479
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:27.640
history down, but it could also be some of them
480
00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:32.200
they encountered them. That I find really intriguing is the Odyssey.
481
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:38.039
So you have you have Odysseus leaving the Battle.
482
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:40.519
Of Troy, right and he's trying to get home, and
483
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:42.240
the first island he gets to is the island of
484
00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:45.359
the Listrigonians, and you know, these giant come out and
485
00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:48.720
sink all but one of his ships, and they start
486
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.119
spearing people like fish and eating them, and then he
487
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:55.480
gets one his ship gets away, and the next island
488
00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:58.119
they go to is the island of the Cyclops, who's
489
00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:04.160
a giant who eats human flesh. And it sounds bizarre,
490
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:07.480
and there's a lot of things that are strange in
491
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:10.039
the Odyssey, but the time period of that, to me
492
00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:11.960
is really interesting because that's only about one hundred to
493
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:16.440
two hundred years after Joshua entered the land. And if
494
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:18.319
they're coming from the south and from the east, that
495
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:19.880
means if you were in that land and you fled,
496
00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:21.759
you would go north and or west, which is into
497
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:25.960
the Mediterranean, and that's right where Odysseus ends up. And
498
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:29.799
so also the thing that's really intriguing in numbers thirteen,
499
00:25:29.799 --> 00:25:32.200
when the spies come back and give their report, they say,
500
00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:34.359
it's a good land, here's its fruit. Remember they're carrying
501
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:36.119
the grapes and everything, and they're talking about how great
502
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.440
it is. But it's a land that devours its inhabitants.
503
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:43.759
What if we take that pretty literally that the giants
504
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:46.519
that they saw were actually eating people, then that's when
505
00:25:46.599 --> 00:25:49.559
the that's when the Israelite get really scared, which they
506
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:51.359
shouldn't have been. God brought them through the Red Sea,
507
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.079
he wiped out the Egyptians, he did all these plagus.
508
00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:54.359
He could, he could take care of the giants in
509
00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:57.240
the land too. But as soon as they mentioned that,
510
00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:59.599
that's when the people get scared, and then they have
511
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:01.880
to wander the wilderness for forty years instead of entering
512
00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:05.880
the land. So there's that also, that consistent theme around
513
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:08.960
a lot of these cultures that the giants would eat people,
514
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:12.680
and a lot of times they have a connection between
515
00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:15.880
heaven and earth like they're half of each Even doesn't
516
00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:18.200
sound weird, but even like Jack and the Beanstalk has
517
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:21.160
that right, the giants are they live halfway between heaven
518
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:22.480
and earth, and what do they do? They want to
519
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:26.400
they want to eat people. So that that does seem
520
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:29.119
to be very common around the world, and I think
521
00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:32.319
it's because there's a basis and reality for it.
522
00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:35.680
Sure, what does your take on the story of Gilgamesh?
523
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:37.799
Uh?
524
00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:43.680
I think that there similarly, there is a historical core
525
00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:48.960
to that. Obviously they havena pishtam is the dark Builder,
526
00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:53.720
so that would be the Noah character, and then Gilgamesh
527
00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:57.680
and I think and kid are also like, they're they're giants,
528
00:26:57.680 --> 00:26:59.880
they're part they seem to be what are they too,
529
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.960
Third's angel human is rather than half something like that
530
00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:05.920
or that. No, that's what the Apkalu I think are.
531
00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:10.839
But yeah, so they're they're giants and I don't know
532
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:14.000
exactly where they would fit in. It does seem to
533
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:17.519
be something that is well, it's in the Middle East,
534
00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:21.920
it's in Mesopotamia, and they would be early on after Babbel,
535
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:25.880
I think. But so I think that I think there's
536
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:29.279
a historical basis for that. But I'm sure there's embellishment
537
00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:32.119
like we find in a lot of the mythology and legends.
538
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:35.160
I would agree, you know, personally, I think this is
539
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:39.440
probably Nimrod just going by a different name. Personally, and
540
00:27:39.799 --> 00:27:41.440
you know there's a there's a lot of context to
541
00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:42.680
that that can back that up.
542
00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:43.880
Now we're coming.
543
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:47.279
Nimrod is not even his name that that's like, I
544
00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:49.599
think it comes from the word for like rebel or
545
00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:51.480
something like that. Like these people want to make a
546
00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:53.519
name for themselves in the Bible. Is like, oh, yeah,
547
00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:55.559
we're not going to even remember your name, so we're
548
00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:56.240
gonna just.
549
00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:58.839
Call you something else. So yeah, I think that's a possibility.
550
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:04.359
So I want to real quick point everybody to your website,
551
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:08.920
risen Men. Am I in risenmen dot com. This is
552
00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:11.720
where you can look up. You've written a number of books.
553
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:14.759
You're not just you know, obviously an author on the
554
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:17.400
study of the giants, but you're an apologist, you're a theologian.
555
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:19.599
So I want people to go to that website. And
556
00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:22.359
we've hit that heard break moment. But don't worry, laies
557
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:23.960
and gentlemen, we are coming back. We're going to finish
558
00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:26.359
this episode. Ladies and gentlemen. I want all of you
559
00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:29.160
to be a walking billboard. Some of us don't have
560
00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:31.680
platforms such as church and state, but you know what,
561
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:34.599
we can wear T shirts and engage in great conversations
562
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with Christians and Patriots all across the country. Stand Up
563
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Now Apparel is the best T shirts out there. These
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and the material it's like getting a warm hug from
566
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yours truly. One of the better things as well, is
567
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there's no tags. I hate tags. I know you do
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as well. I don't know how many times I've cut
569
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off a tag and ended up with a hole in
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my shirt. You never have to worry about that with
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there with the greatest messages.
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Let me give you a few examples.
574
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But there's a T shirt out there that says armed
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with Ephesians six on it. I tell you, when I
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wear this in town, I get a lot of comments
577
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and a lot.
578
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Of eyebrow raises.
579
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There's other shirts that include pure blood in Hebrew, obviously
580
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in reference to the vaccines.
581
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And also you can get Church and State merch there
582
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as well.
583
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We've got our flagship shirts I was Born for a
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587
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588
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Remember to use that promo code Church and State. And
589
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we are back to thank you for staying with us.
590
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You're over at Churchandstate dot Media and we're going to
591
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:41.880
go right back to our guests real quick though, And
592
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:44.200
I'm not going to labor this, but i want you
593
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to check out the affiliates, and I'm just going to
594
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tell you to go to any of the affiliates that
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you like. We got a lot of great stuff shirts,
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ghost phones, storable food, meThe Wine Blue and with all
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of those you can hit the promo code Church and State.
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You get a discount and you'll hope to support us.
599
00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:03.920
And please once again hit the donate button for us
600
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:05.960
to keep us alive and on the air. That's so
601
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:09.000
vital to keeping this show going, So please hit that
602
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:11.440
donate button for us. All right, let's go right back
603
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:14.319
to it. And I sped through that because we had
604
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:16.359
a little bit of some technical difficulties and we have
605
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:18.480
another guest coming on at ten, so I want to
606
00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:21.720
get right back to our guest, doctor Tim Chafey, and
607
00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:25.160
we're talking about you know, we're talking about the Nephilim.
608
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:29.680
But he's written this book fallen five hundred pages, the
609
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:32.759
Sons of God and the Nephlum, and it is called
610
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:35.319
the most in depth the Bible study available on this
611
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:39.079
controversial subject. I can't wait to read this, sir. I'm
612
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:41.039
going to order this book because I'm excited to get
613
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:43.000
into this. But tell us a little.
614
00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:44.880
Bit more about this book that you've written.
615
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:49.039
Yeah, so, originally it was the I had to choose
616
00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:52.440
the topic for my thhm thesis back in to eleven,
617
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:55.519
and because I had been called giants so many times,
618
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:57.880
and because I was always fascinated by this topic, I thought, well,
619
00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:00.440
let me let me write on that. But he hadn't
620
00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:02.000
done already, and I was shocked to find there really
621
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:04.000
wasn't much scholarly work on it. There was a lot
622
00:31:04.039 --> 00:31:07.039
of lay level stuff, but I couldn't find dissertations or anything.
623
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:10.359
And so I thought, okay, let me do that. And
624
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:13.680
as I dug into it, it not only confirmed that
625
00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:16.680
the view I thought was right is the right view,
626
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:18.559
There's a lot more in the Bible about it than
627
00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:20.839
I ever imagined. It's not just those four verses in
628
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:24.440
Genesis six. They keep showing up time and again, and
629
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:30.119
then numbers thirteen as well, but it does shape a
630
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:34.200
large part of what we see in scripture. And it
631
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:36.200
was really an interesting topic, but that had to be
632
00:31:36.279 --> 00:31:40.759
really you know, technical, because it's a thesis. And so
633
00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:42.359
that was like one hundred and fifty page and I thought,
634
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:43.960
if I get the time, I'm going to rewrite that
635
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:47.440
at the lay level so that everybody can read it.
636
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:48.720
And then it.
637
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:51.079
Grew and grew and grew because there was so much
638
00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:54.240
more to write about. And so this book doesn't even
639
00:31:54.279 --> 00:31:58.240
get into a lot of the topics that modern that
640
00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:00.480
other books on this subject get into, like you know,
641
00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:03.440
where their giant skeletons found throughout the United States, you know,
642
00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:05.519
in the last one hundred and fifty years or so,
643
00:32:06.039 --> 00:32:10.480
and that the Smithsonian is covering up. I don't maybe,
644
00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:12.400
but I don't need that because what I want to
645
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:14.680
do is focus on what the Bible says on the topic.
646
00:32:14.839 --> 00:32:17.039
And so if you want an in depth Bible study,
647
00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:19.200
the first sixteen chapters are about the identity of the
648
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:21.839
Sons of God. It goes through the three major views
649
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:25.640
and then gives the strengths and the objections to those views.
650
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:30.920
There's five chapters just on like people that the arguments
651
00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:33.759
people use against the idea that the sons of God
652
00:32:33.799 --> 00:32:37.200
are angelic beings. So I go through every objection I've
653
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:39.319
ever heard, and many that most people would never have
654
00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:41.680
thought of or heard of, Pau, I want to be
655
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:44.119
very thorough. And then the last half of the book
656
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:47.279
is about the giants themselves and go through what the
657
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:51.839
scripture has to say about them. And yeah, so that's
658
00:32:52.119 --> 00:32:54.000
what I've set out to do, is just to create
659
00:32:54.039 --> 00:32:56.599
the most detailed Bible study on the topic that's been written.
660
00:32:57.160 --> 00:33:00.559
Fantastic. Last question that I really want to ask you
661
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:03.680
is why is this important? I'll just be a little
662
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:06.960
bit of the devil's advocate, right as a Christian? You know,
663
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:09.400
why is this important? Why? Why are we even writing?
664
00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:11.240
Why are we're taking the time to look at this,
665
00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:14.880
examine it, study it when it could potentially be taking
666
00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:18.000
away from the gospel message, right, that emphasis on Jesus.
667
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:20.480
Why is this important as a Christian to understand?
668
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:22.839
Yeah, I think that's a great question.
669
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:24.559
And you know what, I've written a book on the
670
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:27.680
resurrection called Indefensive Easter, Answering Critical Challenges to the Resurrection
671
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:29.640
of Jesus. That was my favorite book ever write, because
672
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:31.799
every day that I'm working on I'm studying the resurrection,
673
00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:34.279
which is the greatest topic to be studying and writing about,
674
00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:40.519
and that was so much more enjoyable than sometimes in
675
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:42.519
this book. I felt like, after writing a chepter, I
676
00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:45.559
have to go take a shower, just because that you
677
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:48.640
have to dig into it. It's rather disturbing at times,
678
00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:51.160
but I think it's important for a couple of reasons. One,
679
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:54.200
it's in the Bible. The Holy Spirit inspired the writing
680
00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:57.680
of God's word, and that means that the Holy Spirit said,
681
00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:01.599
is telling us this is important. It doesn't mean of
682
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:05.599
the same level of importance as the Gospel, but it's
683
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:08.559
in there, and we're supposed to be studying his words,
684
00:34:08.599 --> 00:34:10.719
so we shouldn't ignore it and just gloss over it
685
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:13.079
like a lot of people do you know, Oh, that's controversial,
686
00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:15.119
or that's confusing, or I don't like it, therefore I'm
687
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.960
going to skip it. Well, no, We're supposed to study
688
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:19.360
Guy's words, So I think that's one reason.
689
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:23.079
The other one is because it can lead to the Gospel.
690
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:25.559
There are a lot of people who maybe won't set
691
00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:27.880
foot in the doors of a church, but they might
692
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:30.280
pick up a book on this topic. Or you mentioned
693
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:33.679
the UFO alien stuff earlier, they might pick up a
694
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:35.599
book on that topic. And if that is a way
695
00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:39.280
that we can introduce people to the Gospel, then let's
696
00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:42.760
do it. I think anything that we can use in
697
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:45.800
our culture that people are interested in, then we should
698
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:48.320
be using that to point people to Jesus Christ.
699
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.599
I absolutely love that, because the Bible is the only
700
00:34:51.639 --> 00:34:53.679
book that I know of that has all the answers
701
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:55.519
that you will ever need, and so we should not
702
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:58.920
shy away from any subject, even if we believe this
703
00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:03.199
isn't of importance. Obviously, not just the men who wrote it,
704
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:05.199
but they were inspired by the Holy Spirit, so they
705
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:08.320
were directed to put this in here. Everything has intention
706
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:11.440
behind it, every every word used in the Word of God.
707
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:13.960
So I absolutely love that, Sir. I'm going to once
708
00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:19.440
again point everybody to your website website Risen mid m
709
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:21.280
I n I want to make sure we get that right,
710
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:25.639
risenmen dot com. We're showing that once again. And sir,
711
00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:27.639
last words for the audience here.
712
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:30.599
Well, I think it would go along with what we
713
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:33.400
just talked about. Don't spend so much time focusing on
714
00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:36.559
what our enemy has done, but focus on what our
715
00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:40.679
savior has done. We need to be You know, we
716
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:43.559
need to be wise of serpents, right, but we also
717
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.639
need to be like dope, So we need to we
718
00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:48.719
need to be aware of what the enemy is doing,
719
00:35:48.760 --> 00:35:51.480
but we don't want to focus too much of our energy.
720
00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:52.480
And efforts on that.
721
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:54.840
We should be praising God for what he has done
722
00:35:54.840 --> 00:35:57.119
and sharing the good news of the Gospel of Jesus
723
00:35:57.199 --> 00:35:59.599
Christ with this world that's so desperately needs to hear it.
724
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:00.840
Absolutely.
725
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:02.840
Yeah, well, I gotta tell you, thank you so much
726
00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:05.320
for your time. Thank you for your work, not just
727
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:07.119
on this subject. I love what you're doing with the
728
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:09.719
Arc Encounter and your ministry over there and all the
729
00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:12.320
different books that you've written. So once again to the
730
00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:16.159
audience risenmin dot com go check that out. And I'm
731
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:17.840
gonna go ahead and close this out, sir, if you hold
732
00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:20.440
on one more minute post production, sayah, goodbyes. I appreciate it,
733
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:21.719
but again, thank you for your time here.
734
00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:22.320
On Church and State.
735
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:23.880
Thanks Caleb.
736
00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:26.280
I pursue it absolutely all right. There you go, ladies
737
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:29.440
and gentlemen. You know it's a fascinating study and I
738
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:32.280
do believe what my guest and I were talking about
739
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:35.079
that you should pour through the scriptures. You should study
740
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:38.000
every single aspect of it. This is one that fascinates
741
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:40.599
me personally. I've devoted a lot of time here at
742
00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:43.760
Church and State on covering this topic. But once again
743
00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:46.320
with the scripture, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
744
00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:49.159
Church of State is brought to your part by Colonial Life, Spokane,
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Independent Agents, Finders Insurance and Mark three seven dot com.
746
00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:56.960
I'm Caleb Collier. I was born for a storm. Welcome
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to the fire.
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This is Caleb Callier with Church and State. Are you
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tired of your device spying on you? Ladies and gentlemen.
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We live in nineteen eighty four. Your phones, your tablets,
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your smart televisions, they all are spying on you. And
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this is why I heavily endorse Mark thirty seven dot com.
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All of them are ghost protocols, so that means that
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to Church and State dot Media, scroll over to shop
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and hit Mark thirty seven dot com for all of
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your privacy needs. Make sure to use that promo code
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Church and State. This is Caleb Callier with Church and
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State dot Media. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're not sleeping
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on my pillow, do you even patriots?
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I gotta tell you, this is the.
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for your freedoms. Whether it be the pillow, the sheets,
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or the slippers. I absolutely adore my pillow. My pillow
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has the greatest products around. I know when I I
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want to shuffle around in my bathrobe and slippers and
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yell at the neighbors. Of course, I'm buying from my pillow.
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I need you to head on over to Church and
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State dot media scroll over two shop because every single
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time that you purchase any of these products using the
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promo code Church and State, you ensure that we keep
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our message out on the air.
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I thank everybody for your support and using a promo
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code Church and State. You guys, you go to my
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pillow at dot com forward slash Church and State two
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and then you get your own known platform right there.
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Everybody, Hey, this is Caleb Collier with the Church and
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State podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, I want all of you
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to go to Galileo dot com. You need to stay
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connected no matter what comes our way, whether it's government
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intrusion or a media falling from the sky.
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Galileo has you connected.
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As a marine veteran, I can tell you that communications
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all over to shop and hit Galileo dot com. Make
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sure to ask them for a free Bibby stick and
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make sure to use that promo code Church and State