Critical Thinking, Creativity, and Communication with Dr. Mary Wheeling

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Welcome to the Practice to Profession podcast,
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brought to you by Goldie Beacon College. I'm
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your host, Dustin Ramstow, and on this podcast,
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we will share real advice for current and prospective
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college students from the people who know it
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best. We'll talk with faculty, staff, students,
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and alumni about what it takes to build confidence,
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gain experience, and get career ready. At Goldie
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Beacon, we're in the business of getting students
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hired. To learn more about the college and our
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program offerings, go to gbc .edu. Quick overview
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of your professional background, then we'll get
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more into what brought you to GBC and aspects
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of your experience there. Hi, I'm Mary Wheeling,
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and I am the director of faculty development
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here at Goldie Becombe. And I am also associate
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professor of English and humanities. Background
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wise, I have an undergraduate degree from Florida
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State in English and a minor in music. and my
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graduate degrees are a master's and PhD in English
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from UNC Chapel Hill. I have been a professor
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all of my professional life. Professor of English.
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Once I had arrived at Goldie Beacon in 2002,
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I took a brief hiatus from about 04 to 09 to
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raise my little children, but then I came back.
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So, professor through and through. Love to teach.
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Yeah, that's awesome. And I think we'll kind
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of explore just the length of your time at the
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institution and some other things. But I guess
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just like, you know, it's always nice to pinpoint
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with our guests sort of like that precise moment
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of like, what brought you to teaching at GBC?
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Clearly, you said like, you just, you know, have
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a love and an affinity, you know, of being a
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faculty member in higher education. But yeah,
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teaching at GBC, like what was that kind of like
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decision point or, you know, kind of transition
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point in your career that kind of led you there?
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Teaching at GBC was almost accidental in that
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I had been teaching on the tenure track in North
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Carolina at another institution, and my husband
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was offered a position in Delaware. Research
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about institutions of higher ed, you know, Northern
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Delaware, Southern PA, there are over 100 probably.
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colleges and universities within driving distance.
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I said, yeah, let's move up there, knowing nothing.
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Goldie Becombe had an adjunct position available
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almost as soon as we moved into our house. So
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I picked that up while I was looking for full
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time. faculty positions. And then Goldie Becombe
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had a full -time position open and I enjoyed
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it so much. I thought, let's just do this. Let's
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just stay there. So from the beginning, it has
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been a wonderful place to work. Like I said,
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I took a few years off, then came back part -time,
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then full -time again. So clearly it's not a
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place that I wanted to at any point leave. It
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is a great place to teach. Yeah, that is sort
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of a testament any organization that I've worked
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out of like either people stay there for a long
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time, which is like, you know, increasingly rare
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these days or like, you know, they left, worked
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other places and eventually came back. It's like,
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you chose this twice. Like sometimes I think,
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you know, by the sounds of it from your story,
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like, you know, you, yeah, kind of stumbled upon
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it happened upon it, but then it ended up being
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like a, you know, culture and place that really
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resonated with you. Because yeah, other folks
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sometimes are like, oh, it's reputation preceded.
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I've known of GBC for years and always wondered
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about potentially working there or whatever.
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So I think, yeah, all those things, a testament.
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I know we've really tried to capture and convey
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in this show is the unique magic of the GBC culture
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and experience and everything. So again, another
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pinpoint throughout all your time teaching. And
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perhaps I guess just generally working at GBC
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will sort of like broaden since you do kind of
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have a, you know, sort of dual mandate currently.
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Favorite moment or memory of working at the GBC
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that you feel like is really kind of indicative
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of, you know, that experience there. I've collected
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a lot of great memories. They all have to do
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with being there when our students are showing
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up as human beings. For instance, I started Gosh,
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15 years ago maybe, a student creative writing
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event where students in our writing classes could
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share their work, their creative work, either
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an excerpt from fiction, a poem, a personal essay,
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creative nonfiction, and we invite the whole
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campus. This is still going on to this day, a
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student creative reading and another faculty
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member, esteemed faculty member now. organizes
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and runs it, but for the whole campus to show
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up and listen to these students who are our scholars,
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they are our athletes, they are our student.
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government representatives, our RAs, our work
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-study employees, and maybe they are business
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majors, maybe they are psych majors, and yet
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they have taken a creative writing class, they
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have produced a very personal piece of work,
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accepted the guidance and mentorship of the professor
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and their students, and they are willing to share
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this. publicly with the rest of campus. And it
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is such a special experience to be in the audience,
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to listen to those students as humans, as creators,
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as vulnerable people who have something to say.
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So I would say that student creative reading
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is one of the most wonderful memories. We gave
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one right when COVID was hitting and I distinctly
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remember having the chairs. It was like two weeks
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before shutdown. Having the chairs spaced out,
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you know, we invite friends and family. We were
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bumping elbows to say hello rather than shaking
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hands. And even in that, you know, that we were
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all very uncertain, but the joy and the admiration
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and respect and creativity was magical. Yeah,
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and those sort of things are always interesting.
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And yeah, I mean, just kind of that idea that
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like everything sort of washes away as just like
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human beings, you know, connecting outside of
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any sort of particular context or whatever. But
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the idea of, you know, people, I think it takes
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a lot of reminding that like creating art or
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whatever else, like you don't need to monetize
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it or share it. Like it can't just really be
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for you or you share it with very few people,
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not like, you know, publicly. But so like acknowledging
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that, like that there's not any requirement for
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that. But it can be so powerful to share something
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that means so much to you that you spend a lot
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of time on that feels very reflective of your
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experiences or whatever. And just to have that
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experience of the adoration or normalization,
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people being like, oh my gosh, yeah, that's so
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beautiful. I feel that way, too, and it captures
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something I never was able to put into words
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or whatever else. So I can imagine that is a
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very cherished memory. And that is really great
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that, like you said, a lot of diverse folks come
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together, because you can imagine at certain
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institutions it is like, and I think that's sort
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of the the gift and the curse if you're like
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large enough is that they're sort of like oh
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yeah there's like the creative majors or the
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clubs or whatever like everybody's kind of trying
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to find their corner and their niche and whatever
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so that is sort of like a hyper concentration
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of a bunch of you know pretty similar people.
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And they don't really kind of break out of those
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bounds because it's like, oh, well, this institution
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is so large and it's kind of overwhelming. We're
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trying to find our own small group of people.
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And I think that's the nature, I guess, or my
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impression. And even just some of my experiences
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of like, if you have a larger institution, it
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may end up where it's like, I've had like, oh,
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well, yeah, like we all love video games. We
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all just kind of found our little island to be
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on. So I guess it's, yeah, that's sort of part
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of or an aspect of a GBC experience that we've
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talked about in the show. you know, tight -knit
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kind of community and everything. It is a tight
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-knit community among the students. And the beauty
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of these events is that let's say someone in
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the registrar's office or someone in the business
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office will see a student at that event and say
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to themselves, oh, I watch her on the basketball
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court. I see him playing soccer. I never knew
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this student could produce a work of this beauty,
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you know? So for our whole community to see students
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in a broader spectrum, you know, of light, in
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their human capacities, and then be able to talk
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to them about that afterward, it grows the student,
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but it also grows the community. Yeah, absolutely.
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And we'll explore, as we often do in the show,
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sort of like, you know, what all of this sort
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of gives to students as they kind of enter into
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kind of their lives after the institutions, like
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the skills and stuff. But I feel like, yeah,
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it's even that where you can kind of like, you
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know, sort of distill, you know, communication
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skills or something from, you know, students
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kind of putting themselves out there in that
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way. But, you know, I think it's always nice
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for me when I talk to folks that have had this
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sort of rare opportunity and privilege to be
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at one organization for a long time, you know.
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For you being at GBC a long time like what has
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changed what has stayed the same? Because it
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feels like maybe like my impression so confirm
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my like hypothesis here refute it but like you
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know that heart Seems like it's been pretty consistent
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from all our conversations that we've had with
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folks and then maybe yeah Just different kind
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of other aspects that you know I don't know,
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just sort of like the campus of the field or,
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you know, you know, just the nature of how the
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work happens or something maybe has changed.
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But yeah, just talk about any of those things
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that come to mind and maybe at least, you know,
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one of each if you can. But just, you know, take
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it, take it wherever you want to go. The things
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that have remained the same over my long experience
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here at Guilty Beacon, I would say primarily
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it is the focus on student success. Everyone
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here historically has felt like to me. They have
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been driven by helping these students get to
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the point where they can get their feet under
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them. They have their sights fixed on the most
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valuable path. Obviously, we can't get every
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student to an end point where they say, now I've
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got the job, I have the salary, my family's all
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set. We can't get students there. But our focus
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historically, I would say, has always been on
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coaching, mentoring, equipping, supporting, teaching
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the student how, when they graduate, to keep
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going on this journey. And that, I've never felt
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that focus waver since I've been here. And now
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with President Keith, it's just as vital and
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strong as ever, that heartbeat you were talking
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about. student success, equipping students. As
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far as staff and faculty getting work done to
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that end, I would say the one thing that has
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not changed about how we do our work is that
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everyone's door is always open. No one needs
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their next layer of worker to filter out people
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who might come in with a problem. We all are
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openly accessible. to anyone who wants to come
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talk to us about anything, maybe not even in
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our discipline or in our office area or our unit.
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We collaborate on anything and everything at
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this campus. I can go in and talk to the president.
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I can go in and talk to the head of information
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technology. Anyone is available to anyone here.
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So these are wonderful through lines. You asked
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about changes. I would say the constant is that
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technology is always changing. We all know this
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acutely as just citizens in the world. The technology
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changes now are more critical and concerning
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than they have been in the whole time I've been
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teaching, even back to graduate school. I was
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in graduate school at Chapel Hill. I was a worker
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in our student computer lab. So I was supporting
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in the right around 1990 plus, I was supporting
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students in the IBM lab. There were two separate
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labs, Mac lab, IBM lab. So I've seen tech in
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education higher ed from that period forward.
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The AI related systems changes right now are
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the most concerning changes that higher education
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has dealt with. and continues to deal with. But
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that's not to say there have been a lot of changes
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we've had to work through here at Goldie Beacon.
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And I think we've done a really good job, particularly
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the COVID online shift, which was necessary to
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keep educating the students. We had to turn it
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into online learning, as everyone knows. But
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those are the things that always change and that
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in itself is constant. Change is constant. Yeah,
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I guess it's sort of the like, what we do hasn't
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changed just the way that we do it, you know,
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so that idea of kind of that core heart admission
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and, you know, the values and all that, you know,
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hold consistent. And then, yeah, just like the
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tools modality of sort of, you know, how students
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engage in those sort of things. But because,
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yeah, and I think that is like, you know, there's
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certain watershed moments of like, yeah, when
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like personal computers hit the scene, that was
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like a huge shift, because I would think like
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for a very long time, like any sort of changes,
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whatever, are probably just very subtle in the
00:14:28.950 --> 00:14:30.370
sense of like, you know, if it's just sort of
00:14:30.370 --> 00:14:31.950
like, oh, you know, we used to use chalkboards
00:14:31.950 --> 00:14:33.149
all the time, but now I don't know, we're starting
00:14:33.149 --> 00:14:34.950
to use whiteboards or like, you know, just like
00:14:34.950 --> 00:14:36.970
the layouts and maybe the scale of things or
00:14:36.970 --> 00:14:39.570
whatever, but like personal computing, you know,
00:14:39.570 --> 00:14:41.830
is still sort of like this, you know, very, very
00:14:41.830 --> 00:14:44.049
long kind of tail and sort of ripple effect that,
00:14:44.149 --> 00:14:45.549
yeah, we're still feeling today because the idea
00:14:45.549 --> 00:14:47.070
of like, well, yeah, they're becoming cheaper,
00:14:47.070 --> 00:14:49.049
more accessible and quicker and what, you know,
00:14:49.049 --> 00:14:50.669
like, and now we have them in our pockets and
00:14:50.669 --> 00:14:52.029
now we have things that we can sort of like,
00:14:52.029 --> 00:14:54.289
you know, automate. So I think You know, yeah,
00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:56.529
like since the 90s, there's just been that kind
00:14:56.529 --> 00:14:58.970
of to some extent, you know, ripples that we
00:14:58.970 --> 00:15:00.970
keep feeling. And yeah, I mean, I've had a lot
00:15:00.970 --> 00:15:03.049
of other conversations about, you know, all the
00:15:03.049 --> 00:15:05.590
sort of different impacts. Certainly teaching
00:15:05.590 --> 00:15:09.070
and learning is, I think, the the biggest area
00:15:09.070 --> 00:15:11.330
in higher education that is dealing with it.
00:15:11.330 --> 00:15:13.110
But I think that it's always nice, I guess, and
00:15:13.110 --> 00:15:14.870
refreshing to hear folks kind of speak like you
00:15:14.870 --> 00:15:17.970
do of like we never sort of doubt or forget.
00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:21.220
our sort of North Star of what we do and why
00:15:21.220 --> 00:15:24.279
we do it. And that can help determine how you
00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:26.440
make decisions about what you do or don't do
00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:29.620
or how you teach with AI or about AI or any of
00:15:29.620 --> 00:15:31.379
those sort of things. But I think to kind of
00:15:31.379 --> 00:15:32.960
use that, I guess, is sort of a segue because
00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:36.029
you have the... the role overseeing faculty development
00:15:36.029 --> 00:15:38.049
as well. So I'm sure with your open doors and
00:15:38.049 --> 00:15:39.990
everything else, you're having a lot of conversations
00:15:39.990 --> 00:15:42.250
about some of these things with your colleagues
00:15:42.250 --> 00:15:43.889
and everything. But we haven't really had the
00:15:43.889 --> 00:15:45.950
opportunity to talk about anybody doing that
00:15:45.950 --> 00:15:47.950
sort of stuff, faculty development work on the
00:15:47.950 --> 00:15:50.669
show yet. So just talk a little bit more about
00:15:50.669 --> 00:15:53.950
what that looks like and just how you see it
00:15:53.950 --> 00:15:57.309
benefiting students. As you said, student success
00:15:57.309 --> 00:16:02.090
is our focus has not changed. And so We're just
00:16:02.090 --> 00:16:05.509
kicking off the fourth year of Center for Faculty
00:16:05.509 --> 00:16:09.950
Development. And like you said, the whole purpose
00:16:09.950 --> 00:16:13.450
of kind of a hub of support and resources for
00:16:13.450 --> 00:16:18.690
faculty, the whole purpose is to sustain and
00:16:18.690 --> 00:16:23.029
improve student success. The better we are teaching,
00:16:23.730 --> 00:16:27.379
the more effective evidence -based strategies
00:16:27.379 --> 00:16:31.879
that we use, deploy, measure, then we hope the
00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:35.320
better the student learning will be. So we and
00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:38.620
the Center for Faculty Development, we, the instructional
00:16:38.620 --> 00:16:42.500
designer, Dr. Susan Fugate -Bringers, who's also
00:16:42.500 --> 00:16:45.559
an art history professor, an art appreciation
00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:50.919
professor here, and I, the center director, work
00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:55.350
together to provide resources and support. for
00:16:55.350 --> 00:16:58.769
our faculty in assessing their student learning,
00:16:59.210 --> 00:17:02.570
assessing their own teaching, learning about
00:17:02.570 --> 00:17:05.170
teaching strategies, methodologies that they
00:17:05.170 --> 00:17:08.269
may not be familiar with but that may solve a
00:17:08.269 --> 00:17:11.289
problem they're having or help a challenge they're
00:17:11.289 --> 00:17:13.769
having with student learning. Students are coming
00:17:13.769 --> 00:17:17.730
into college now with a different understanding
00:17:17.730 --> 00:17:20.369
of what higher education might provide for them.
00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:23.299
So, folks like me who have been teaching for
00:17:23.299 --> 00:17:26.819
30 plus years now, the students we taught 30
00:17:26.819 --> 00:17:29.200
years ago are quite different from the students
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:33.599
we're getting now. So, faculty always need to
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:37.339
learn, adapt, try out new things, and that's
00:17:37.339 --> 00:17:40.940
what this center is for. A series of workshops
00:17:40.940 --> 00:17:44.400
on our learning management system, a series of
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:48.059
workshops on artificial intelligence tools and
00:17:48.059 --> 00:17:52.119
systems. a series of workshops on academic integrity.
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:56.200
Anything you can think of that affects higher
00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.960
ed right now, classroom teaching or online teaching,
00:18:00.099 --> 00:18:03.640
we offer support and services. There's another
00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:08.119
component of this that gets into student success
00:18:08.119 --> 00:18:11.160
beyond the classroom. So those all obviously
00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:15.900
tie into helping us be better prepared. faculty
00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:20.559
and more effective faculty. The thing that is
00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:23.700
really salient right now in this world where
00:18:23.700 --> 00:18:27.460
higher education is under very tight scrutiny
00:18:27.460 --> 00:18:30.740
for financial reasons as well as political reasons
00:18:30.740 --> 00:18:35.509
as well as Just general cultural thinking about
00:18:35.509 --> 00:18:38.630
the value of an education. How is what we're
00:18:38.630 --> 00:18:41.430
doing as faculty going to help our students get
00:18:41.430 --> 00:18:44.490
a job? That's a question families ask, students
00:18:44.490 --> 00:18:46.650
ask, particularly students who are financing
00:18:46.650 --> 00:18:52.150
their own education. And it's a question that
00:18:52.150 --> 00:18:55.230
plays into public perception of higher ed. Well,
00:18:55.230 --> 00:18:58.210
if I can't get a job with this major, why am
00:18:58.210 --> 00:19:01.200
I even spending the money? to do this anymore.
00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:04.259
Jobs are scarce. They're getting scarcer. AI
00:19:04.259 --> 00:19:07.920
incursion is making everyone even more uncertain
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.980
about the job market. So how does the Center
00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:16.500
for Faculty Development assist faculty in translating
00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:22.220
their student learning into future economic mobility
00:19:22.220 --> 00:19:27.279
or achievement or success? We encourage and support
00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:31.640
and offer resources for our faculty to look into
00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:35.660
their own professional areas, their own disciplines,
00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:41.440
their own employment applications of their degrees
00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:44.220
to learn what skills their students are going
00:19:44.220 --> 00:19:48.460
to need right now to go get hired. We have funding
00:19:48.460 --> 00:19:52.420
to send faculty to conferences. We take groups
00:19:52.420 --> 00:19:57.700
of faculty to local symposia. learning opportunities,
00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:02.000
tech forums, you know, the Chamber of Commerce
00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:07.119
events. We get our faculty out into the business
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:09.660
world, the hiring world, the nonprofit world.
00:20:10.099 --> 00:20:14.079
Our faculty are very well connected and we encourage
00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:18.690
this understanding. Our faculty go to community
00:20:18.690 --> 00:20:22.569
events, go to civic events and professional events,
00:20:22.930 --> 00:20:26.029
bring that back to the classroom and say, here's
00:20:26.029 --> 00:20:29.809
what you need. Here's what I heard the CEO at
00:20:29.809 --> 00:20:34.769
this firm tell us yesterday about what she's
00:20:34.769 --> 00:20:39.289
looking for in a hire. So translating student
00:20:39.289 --> 00:20:43.779
learning in the classroom. to skill sets, hireable
00:20:43.779 --> 00:20:48.180
toolkits, scripts that they can use on the interviews.
00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:51.660
And in particular, I'll say again, understanding
00:20:51.660 --> 00:20:56.539
of how to work with and around artificial intelligence
00:20:56.539 --> 00:20:59.339
tools, which is a part of our learning also.
00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:01.099
Yeah, I mean, that's all great to hear. And I
00:21:01.099 --> 00:21:03.579
mean, yeah, the idea sounds like the, you know,
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:06.930
the ultimate vision. Is in a formalization of
00:21:06.930 --> 00:21:09.009
like, I think some institutions that might be
00:21:09.009 --> 00:21:10.789
just sort of like anecdotal or kind of like,
00:21:10.789 --> 00:21:13.369
you know, some faculty do it more than others.
00:21:13.390 --> 00:21:15.890
And there's not maybe like a, this sort of like
00:21:15.890 --> 00:21:18.750
desire or intention of strategy around trying
00:21:18.750 --> 00:21:20.630
to like harness, you know, there's like, you
00:21:20.630 --> 00:21:22.190
know, getting the faculty out in the community
00:21:22.190 --> 00:21:25.009
or things like that. Cause I think, yeah, that's
00:21:25.009 --> 00:21:27.789
definitely like the idea of, you know, the faculty
00:21:27.789 --> 00:21:30.670
development piece should feed the classroom experience,
00:21:30.809 --> 00:21:33.420
which feeds like the you know, kind of just eventual
00:21:33.420 --> 00:21:35.799
kind of professional experiences of students
00:21:35.799 --> 00:21:38.200
and stuff. So like it, if it just feels like
00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:39.799
it kind of comes full circle or different things
00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:41.059
like that, I guess is what I'm sort of thinking
00:21:41.059 --> 00:21:45.680
of. But just also the idea of making time and
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:48.380
space for those workshops or different things
00:21:48.380 --> 00:21:50.700
like that. Like I'm glad to see that more institutions
00:21:50.700 --> 00:21:52.680
are kind of doing that in a more kind of earnest
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:54.220
fashion because it might have just been more
00:21:54.220 --> 00:21:56.509
like. Yeah, maybe some, you know, faculty members
00:21:56.509 --> 00:21:58.309
kind of bump into each other in the hallway or
00:21:58.309 --> 00:22:00.309
the lounge or, you know, go to each other's offices
00:22:00.309 --> 00:22:01.630
because they have a relationship with each other.
00:22:01.670 --> 00:22:03.869
And it's just sort of like very unevenly distributed
00:22:03.869 --> 00:22:06.690
sort of like opportunities to kind of talk shop
00:22:06.690 --> 00:22:09.109
or whatever, you know, or just kind of know what
00:22:09.109 --> 00:22:11.829
really is working or what from kind of a top
00:22:11.829 --> 00:22:14.049
level new tools or just different approaches
00:22:14.049 --> 00:22:16.309
to things, you know, should be utilized and supported
00:22:16.309 --> 00:22:18.269
and all that. But yeah, I mean, all that I think
00:22:18.269 --> 00:22:21.799
it is the idea of the scrutiny certainly is that
00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:23.339
idea of like, we've hit the breaking point of
00:22:23.339 --> 00:22:26.380
like, I'm not paying so much in money and the
00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:29.759
opportunity cost of my time to get that like,
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:31.799
what feels very irrelevant, not useful for my,
00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:33.720
you know, professional goals and stuff. And whether
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:36.140
that's sort of like a, you know, so I'll use
00:22:36.140 --> 00:22:38.279
this to kind of shape into like, you know, to
00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:39.519
kind of bounce it back to you, I think there
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.160
is an idea of like, the major or the courses
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:45.119
or whatever else, the hope and desire for like
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:49.579
a thick, solid line from like, I do this, I get
00:22:49.579 --> 00:22:52.160
that job or, you know, whatever else. And that
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:53.779
would be great. And I think to some extent that,
00:22:53.779 --> 00:22:55.940
you know, is very much available to students
00:22:55.940 --> 00:22:59.789
in certain disciplines. But like with like communications
00:22:59.789 --> 00:23:01.710
or English or literature or whatever that might
00:23:01.710 --> 00:23:03.430
be. It's like, yeah, it's a little bit more of
00:23:03.430 --> 00:23:05.769
kind of a windy, maybe like, you know, not as
00:23:05.769 --> 00:23:08.069
bold or maybe dotted line, but the idea of like,
00:23:08.230 --> 00:23:10.789
the durable skills that will serve you in whatever
00:23:10.789 --> 00:23:12.549
you do. And like, those are the things I guess,
00:23:12.589 --> 00:23:14.750
like any dynamics that you've had there of like,
00:23:14.930 --> 00:23:16.589
an epiphany that a student had of, you know,
00:23:16.690 --> 00:23:18.990
doing this, like, you know, reading or something,
00:23:19.130 --> 00:23:21.069
you know, sharing their art with people, you
00:23:21.069 --> 00:23:23.789
know, like I spoke about before, but like, that
00:23:23.789 --> 00:23:28.049
idea of it can't always and doesn't need to be
00:23:28.049 --> 00:23:30.549
like the solid, thick, bolded line of like, you
00:23:30.549 --> 00:23:33.109
know, we're just essentially creating a college
00:23:33.109 --> 00:23:35.289
that's just like an employee factory for companies
00:23:35.289 --> 00:23:37.210
or whatever. You know, like, I think that's always
00:23:37.210 --> 00:23:40.970
sort of the like, fear that a lot of institutional
00:23:40.970 --> 00:23:42.910
leaders think about is like, that's obviously
00:23:42.910 --> 00:23:45.150
not the goal for, you know, most institutions.
00:23:45.650 --> 00:23:48.390
So yeah, that idea of like the classes, the program,
00:23:48.569 --> 00:23:50.089
helping students get hired that you're part of
00:23:50.089 --> 00:23:52.769
like the skill sets that they're getting and
00:23:52.769 --> 00:23:55.910
sort of. I guess how you maybe, you know, yourself
00:23:55.910 --> 00:23:57.509
and your colleagues, students, try to like keep
00:23:57.509 --> 00:23:59.569
an open mind, I guess, about that of sort of
00:23:59.569 --> 00:24:01.230
like the multitudes of things that you sort of
00:24:01.230 --> 00:24:04.490
gain at GBC throughout kind of your whole experience,
00:24:04.589 --> 00:24:06.190
not just sort of like checking a bunch of boxes.
00:24:06.990 --> 00:24:09.750
Right. That's kind of the challenge, isn't it?
00:24:09.829 --> 00:24:14.730
The balance between the skill set, many call
00:24:14.730 --> 00:24:18.069
them soft skills, communication, creativity,
00:24:18.869 --> 00:24:21.029
collaboration. There are a lot of Cs and they
00:24:21.029 --> 00:24:24.619
are critical thinking. problem solving versus
00:24:24.619 --> 00:24:29.319
immediately applicable information that you glean
00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:32.099
and then you can go do your accounting. Not that
00:24:32.099 --> 00:24:35.160
accounting doesn't take into consideration all
00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:39.720
those other soft skills, but practical application
00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:43.579
of a particular job skill. So that's the balance
00:24:43.579 --> 00:24:47.039
and the beauty of higher ed, right? We're historically
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:50.700
known as a business college. We began as a business.
00:24:50.890 --> 00:24:54.690
College, we've had a business focus for over
00:24:54.690 --> 00:24:58.269
100 years. Being a humanities professor and a
00:24:58.269 --> 00:25:02.329
literature PhD, I'm a writer, I'm a thinker,
00:25:02.410 --> 00:25:06.769
a scholar, and a faculty member, I can see time
00:25:06.769 --> 00:25:11.069
and time again that a student who comes up through
00:25:11.069 --> 00:25:15.109
our general education core comes up through our
00:25:15.109 --> 00:25:17.890
first year writing programs, our humanities surveys,
00:25:18.410 --> 00:25:21.990
our intro to psychology, that even though these
00:25:21.990 --> 00:25:26.650
are not, as you said, the direct line to a particular
00:25:26.650 --> 00:25:29.829
job that person may want or think they want,
00:25:30.269 --> 00:25:34.529
that we are good at designing our courses and
00:25:34.529 --> 00:25:37.829
designing our curriculum such that the student
00:25:38.059 --> 00:25:41.920
begins to see how building these skills produce
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:46.359
in them more capacity to do anything they might
00:25:46.359 --> 00:25:52.039
want to do. To be a better neighbor. To be more
00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:54.980
effective at advocating for their elementary
00:25:54.980 --> 00:25:59.859
school. To be somebody who could join a nonprofit
00:25:59.859 --> 00:26:03.420
and make a difference in addition to being somebody
00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:07.900
that is really employable. a business might want
00:26:07.900 --> 00:26:11.079
on their team. And that because these skills,
00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:13.500
communication, collaboration, as I mentioned
00:26:13.500 --> 00:26:17.240
before, because these skills are sort of universally
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:21.180
applicable, I think once students are here, we
00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:24.259
get them in the classes, they see how much we
00:26:24.259 --> 00:26:27.359
care about their success and their future. that
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:30.240
they learn to trust the Goldie Beacon faculty
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:34.400
and staff and advisors and student affairs. Everyone
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:38.380
who's here is a believer of this type of education.
00:26:39.980 --> 00:26:42.519
It's not just come take these business classes
00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:45.680
and get that business degree and go into that
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.240
area. It's, we've got you. We're doing the things
00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:53.880
you can trust us on. We also know and see, and
00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:58.579
I mean we as a society, that the way that the
00:26:58.579 --> 00:27:02.220
artificial intelligence incursion into business
00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:05.920
in the United States anyway, is such that employers
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:10.660
are now looking for employees who can do almost
00:27:10.660 --> 00:27:15.519
anything. As long as they can communicate, they
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:17.880
can problem solve, they can work with others,
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:21.000
and they can think of creative solutions or be
00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:27.420
creative in design or whatever. and have a skepticism
00:27:27.420 --> 00:27:32.039
about maybe these tools that have been put in
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:35.700
place in the workplace recently, you know, without
00:27:35.700 --> 00:27:38.359
a lot of people asking for these AI tools. Now
00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:40.539
all of a sudden they're in everything we do.
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:45.759
A lot of hiring institutions are looking for
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:49.900
new employees who have some thinking capacity
00:27:49.900 --> 00:27:52.680
about this. They may not know how to use the
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:55.980
latest AI because they who does, you know, there's
00:27:55.980 --> 00:27:58.500
a learning curve, but they have a way of thinking
00:27:58.500 --> 00:28:01.599
about it. And we can educate students to have
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:04.680
the way of thinking about it critically. Yeah,
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:06.599
I think that like kind of discernment, you know,
00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:09.240
is really important of because they think, yeah,
00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:11.319
the fear on sort of the AI front specifically
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:13.559
is sort of the like cognitive offloading, you
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:15.579
know, like you're just almost, I mean, I guess
00:28:15.579 --> 00:28:17.339
literally like, you know, in that sort of situation,
00:28:18.079 --> 00:28:20.660
like, to reliance, you know, overly reliant on
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:23.220
uh having the AI kind of do everything for you
00:28:23.220 --> 00:28:25.579
but it is that idea of like it can what I've
00:28:25.579 --> 00:28:27.140
sort of observed and what I've kind of lived
00:28:27.140 --> 00:28:30.740
out so far is like it can fit very snugly into
00:28:30.740 --> 00:28:33.460
a very specific kind of use case in terms of
00:28:33.460 --> 00:28:36.400
like you know riffing on kind of ideas or giving
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:38.339
you an outline to start for you know start from
00:28:38.339 --> 00:28:41.259
for writing or you know give me title episode
00:28:41.259 --> 00:28:44.579
you know like episode title options for like
00:28:44.579 --> 00:28:46.059
my podcast or whatever, you know, like different
00:28:46.059 --> 00:28:48.259
things like that. And like, you know, I'm still
00:28:48.259 --> 00:28:50.079
one kind of discerning, like the general use
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:53.019
case and then kind of, you know, putting my fingerprints
00:28:53.019 --> 00:28:54.819
on it still in terms of like, Oh, well, actually,
00:28:54.819 --> 00:28:56.579
like, you know, here's five title options, I'm
00:28:56.579 --> 00:28:58.079
going to kind of merge, you know, some of them
00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:00.319
and still kind of like, you know, in just like
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:01.720
rearranging, kind of put my fingerprints on it.
00:29:01.819 --> 00:29:04.160
But like, yeah, there's an opportunity certainly
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:07.019
to teach about like, yeah, how to use AI, I have
00:29:07.019 --> 00:29:08.920
some fluency there in students, but I think that
00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:10.759
discernment is a big piece of that, you know.
00:29:10.890 --> 00:29:14.750
as much as the technical nuts and bolts of how
00:29:14.750 --> 00:29:17.470
to do X or Y or Z with these tools. But I think
00:29:17.470 --> 00:29:20.650
what that makes me think about generally is the
00:29:20.650 --> 00:29:23.089
idea of also the co -curricular outside the classroom
00:29:23.089 --> 00:29:24.990
experiences where I think, yeah, if you had a
00:29:24.990 --> 00:29:28.029
certain perspective on why you're going to college
00:29:28.029 --> 00:29:30.309
and what you hope to get out of it, some people
00:29:30.309 --> 00:29:32.309
might feel like that's all just a waste of time.
00:29:32.750 --> 00:29:35.730
It's like, oh yeah, I'm just going to go do this
00:29:35.730 --> 00:29:40.230
frivolous thing or whatever. Yeah, I think there's
00:29:40.230 --> 00:29:42.390
a lot there, I guess of like, what is the true
00:29:42.390 --> 00:29:45.970
value of a higher ed experience, which I think,
00:29:46.109 --> 00:29:47.750
yeah, that's sort of like inside baseball, like
00:29:47.750 --> 00:29:49.190
the people who work professionally in the space,
00:29:49.269 --> 00:29:50.549
it's sort of like, you know, we know a lot of
00:29:50.549 --> 00:29:52.029
these things, how do we try to like convey or
00:29:52.029 --> 00:29:54.410
capture sort of like kind of imbue that into,
00:29:54.410 --> 00:29:56.970
you know, what we're doing every day, because
00:29:56.970 --> 00:29:58.609
I think it could certainly be a little bit of
00:29:58.609 --> 00:30:00.990
like a, you know, a hard sell to have somebody
00:30:00.990 --> 00:30:02.609
like, you know, perspective student have it just
00:30:02.609 --> 00:30:03.950
immediately click, and they're like, Oh, yeah,
00:30:03.990 --> 00:30:05.730
I'm totally bought in. Yes, like these sort of
00:30:05.730 --> 00:30:08.500
intangible. you know, benefits or whatever, being
00:30:08.500 --> 00:30:10.619
a good citizen or something, you know. So I appreciate
00:30:10.619 --> 00:30:12.539
you all, you know, you sharing your perspective
00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:14.700
that you all kind of are, you know, as a teaching
00:30:14.700 --> 00:30:16.500
institution, I think it is that idea of like,
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:18.559
there's so much that we can do. We've got this
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:20.660
student, like we'll, you know, try to do all
00:30:20.660 --> 00:30:22.460
the things that we can to build all those sort
00:30:22.460 --> 00:30:25.980
of, you know, soft, durable skills and everything
00:30:25.980 --> 00:30:28.680
as much as, you know, the things that sort of
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:31.549
the the marketplace, you know, can kind of. digest
00:30:31.549 --> 00:30:34.990
very easily. But we will wrap up though. Question
00:30:34.990 --> 00:30:37.769
I love asking, love wrapping up every episode
00:30:37.769 --> 00:30:40.769
with, what is something that you can share with
00:30:40.769 --> 00:30:42.789
us that you hope to convey to all of your students
00:30:42.789 --> 00:30:45.990
no matter what class you're teaching? It is that
00:30:45.990 --> 00:30:48.549
learning is hard. Learning is uncomfortable.
00:30:48.809 --> 00:30:53.009
Learning is difficult. To your point about offloading
00:30:53.009 --> 00:30:57.759
to an AI tool, that's very tempting. not just
00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:00.599
for college students, but for anyone. If you
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:03.839
have something hard to puzzle through, it is
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:09.000
extremely tempting to ask this new tool to input
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:12.279
to the new tool your issue, and then it will
00:31:12.279 --> 00:31:16.539
generate output that looks like, hey, okay, I'll
00:31:16.539 --> 00:31:19.559
do that, you know, and run off to do that. That's
00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:23.859
not learning. And the more we... get back to
00:31:23.859 --> 00:31:27.180
normalizing learning as a struggle and allowing
00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:30.779
our students to make mistakes and normalize mistakes,
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:34.420
not as the end. You missed that. Five points
00:31:34.420 --> 00:31:39.279
off. Okay, next unit. Making mistake, I see,
00:31:39.980 --> 00:31:42.960
as the beginning of learning. Why'd you make
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:45.579
that mistake? What was your misunderstanding?
00:31:46.059 --> 00:31:50.299
How did we disconnect on that part of the learning?
00:31:50.589 --> 00:31:53.650
What do you need to make this learning stick?
00:31:53.970 --> 00:31:56.690
That's what Center for Faculty Development is
00:31:56.690 --> 00:32:00.450
here to help faculty figure out. How did my delivery,
00:32:00.690 --> 00:32:03.470
how did my course design or assignment design
00:32:03.470 --> 00:32:06.309
cause this student to miss? You know, what can
00:32:06.309 --> 00:32:08.789
I do better as a faculty member? But I would,
00:32:08.970 --> 00:32:11.809
to your question, I would push that back to the
00:32:11.809 --> 00:32:16.089
student is that it's okay to make mistakes. That's
00:32:16.089 --> 00:32:20.230
how you learn. Otherwise, it's just memorizing
00:32:20.230 --> 00:32:23.930
or going to look something up on Wikipedia or
00:32:23.930 --> 00:32:26.269
asking AI. I think that would be like the vicious
00:32:26.269 --> 00:32:28.849
cycle as if like, yeah, institutional leaders,
00:32:29.369 --> 00:32:31.630
faculty, whoever, just the general experience
00:32:31.630 --> 00:32:34.259
feels like. you know, kind of half -baked or
00:32:34.259 --> 00:32:35.460
whatever. It's like, well, why am I going to
00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:36.839
put in the work to do this? I'm just going to
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:38.619
like, you know, have AI give me something and
00:32:38.619 --> 00:32:40.779
then I, you know, turn that in or whatever. And
00:32:40.779 --> 00:32:42.680
I think that just that will start to kind of
00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:44.359
overreliance. And it's like, because it's like,
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:45.759
I didn't really learn anything. I need to kind
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:48.019
of like lean too heavily on tools to sort of
00:32:48.019 --> 00:32:49.599
like supplement or whatever it's like. And again,
00:32:49.619 --> 00:32:51.859
like they have their place, that discernment
00:32:51.859 --> 00:32:54.680
and whatever else. But I think it can just end
00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:57.730
up being kind of a vicious cycle of like. Yeah,
00:32:57.849 --> 00:32:59.250
you're just you're not engaging with the learning
00:32:59.250 --> 00:33:00.829
experience, but it's not being provided in a
00:33:00.829 --> 00:33:02.549
sort of relevant, engaging way. And, you know,
00:33:02.630 --> 00:33:05.309
all that. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, like learning
00:33:05.309 --> 00:33:06.930
is hard. That's kind of the point. Getting out
00:33:06.930 --> 00:33:08.670
of your comfort zone, you know, exposure to these
00:33:08.670 --> 00:33:11.450
things and, you know, that it's like something
00:33:11.450 --> 00:33:14.849
worth having is often hard and any other kind
00:33:14.849 --> 00:33:16.809
of just adages like that, I guess. But yeah,
00:33:16.809 --> 00:33:19.480
and I think it is like the. the right support
00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:20.900
system, the right environment, and the right
00:33:20.900 --> 00:33:23.319
institution allows you to feel like you've got
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:26.400
the scaffolding to keep yourself moving up as
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:29.619
you're pushing through that discomfort. At certain
00:33:29.619 --> 00:33:30.960
times, I feel like in higher ed, when you're
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:34.259
in college, just almost relearning what you thought
00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:37.940
you knew or something, or getting a deeper, more
00:33:37.940 --> 00:33:40.220
expansive, or interconnected understanding of
00:33:40.220 --> 00:33:43.019
the world and stuff. It's all really good stuff
00:33:43.019 --> 00:33:45.900
and I think just a great perspective on... the
00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:48.680
work that you do personally at GBC, how you support
00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:50.500
all the other faculty members in their development,
00:33:51.019 --> 00:33:53.259
and how in the end of the day, it benefits students.
00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:55.960
It's all really great to hear and have ways to
00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:57.500
connect with you in the episode description,
00:33:57.700 --> 00:33:59.579
learn more about your background. But yeah, just
00:33:59.579 --> 00:34:01.299
thank you so much for hanging out for this episode.
00:34:01.740 --> 00:34:05.839
Thank you, Dustin. It was a pleasure. Thanks
00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:07.920
for listening to this episode of the Practice
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.659
to Profession podcast. If you enjoyed this episode,
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:13.420
make sure to like, review, and share it with
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a friend. Some more folks discovered the conversations
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we're having here. Make sure you subscribe on
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00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:25.760
College and all of our program offerings, go
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:30.679
to gbc .edu. We'll see you next time on the Practice
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:31.739
Profession Podcast.