WEBVTT
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Greetings and a welcome to the Practical Matters Podcast, where we believe that making theology practical matters.
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I'm Kevin Saxton.
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This is Garrett Haywood.
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And we are about a third of the way through the month of August in the year of our Lord, 2026.
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It's crazy when you think of it that way because it's like August 11th, but we're a third of the way, you know.
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Oh, I know.
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When it hit August 1st, I couldn't believe it.
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Yeah, it's you blink and it'll be Christmas.
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Yes, yes.
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Um, I got to uh I got to hear Garrett preach on Sunday, and that's uh something I plan to do a lot more of.
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Yes, that's right.
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It was awesome.
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We preached on um uh Psalm 103, and um uh we had a record attendance at our campus on Sunday um and uh I enjoyed it a lot.
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It was a a template for total devotion to God, and um yeah, it was a good good Sunday.
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Good Sunday.
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Yeah.
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You know, ten of the people in that record attendance were people that came from from my house.
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From your house.
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We would have um we would have set a record even without you guys, but uh I was glad you guys were there for for many reasons.
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Uh one of them to help us set a record.
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So Yeah, yeah.
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I mean, you know, like people always say, like, does my vote really count?
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Or like if I'm there, does it really matter?
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I mean, when you show up with ten people.
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So I guess the answer is and it's ten because one of my daughter's boyfriend was there, but um and I guess the answer is just have more kids and it'll matter.
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Yes, fair enough, yeah.
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Have more babies.
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Yes, yes.
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Well, today is the first day of school for First Academy, so the Saxton family is all here.
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Well, a lot of us are here already and ready to go.
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And uh it's gonna be exciting.
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I do have a question, I mean an unrelated question, but uh I was thinking about this.
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I I'm certain that this is not the only podcast that you listen to.
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Yeah and you know, listen to like while you're making it or whatever.
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So uh what podcasts are the go-tos for Garrett Haywood?
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Oh my goodness.
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I uh I started three different podcasts on my way in this morning.
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Um I was kind of schizophrenic with my podcast listening this morning.
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I jumped from one to another to another.
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Um the Carrie Newhoff Leadership Podcast is definitely one of my favorites.
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The Craig Groschell Leadership Podcast is one of my favorites.
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Uh, the world and everything in it is my favorite news podcast.
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Um I listen to Locked On Orlando Magic and Locked On NBA just about every day.
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Uh and I could go on, but um, I think my regular listens are uh those two leadership podcasts, uh the news, and uh some sports podcasting.
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So I do all of my devotional work in the UVersion app.
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So I know some people do devotional work in podcast form, but that's not what I do.
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So what do you listen to?
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Well, my go-to is the briefing with Dr.
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Al Muller.
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Um I try and listen to that every day.
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I think that he's incredibly insightful.
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Yeah, um, I listen to Tony Evans.
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Um I just my parents listened to Tony Evans growing up, and I remembered sitting in the car as a child hearing Tony Evans, and the fact that I could still listen to Tony Evans is kind of cool.
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So I do listen to Tony Evans.
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I listened to um The Morning Wire and the Evening Wire from The Daily Wire, um Michael Knowles.
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And I used to listen to Nate Bargazzi's podcast with Dusty Slay and those fellas, but then they changed it now, and I don't I don't know.
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Oh, what'd they change?
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So like it's now called Public Figures.
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Okay.
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And it's and Nate's not on it anymore.
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Oh.
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And it's still great to hear from Dusty Slay because he's got a lot of outside opinions, you know, like just kind of kind of resonate with.
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But um I don't know.
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So it's funny because like comedians they're very funny fellas, they're very funny guys, but like I don't know if the podcast is funny.
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Yes, yeah.
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Stand-up comedy for an hour is very different from a podcast.
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Like you just mentioned, like I preached on Sunday.
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A 30-minute sermon is very different from a 30-minute podcast.
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It's like they're two very different forums.
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But you have some good jokes in your sermon, though.
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They're all they're all um we could talk about that sometime.
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They're all pre-planned.
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Like everything is word for word written out.
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I don't take the manuscript with me in the pulpit, but the manuscript is printed on my desk.
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Yeah.
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In case I get hit by a bus, somebody could get up there and read it.
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This is what Garrett was gonna say.
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Yes, actually, though.
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Um that's that's kind of in the back of my mind.
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But yeah, it's all all that, even though like I need a new TV.
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Actually, let me rephrase that.
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I want a new TV.
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Like all that stuff was pre-planned.
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So well, I uh let's let's ask some questions.
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We are our format is I brought two topics, you brought two topics, neither one of us know what the other has brought.
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So we gotta think on your feet.
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Um, my first topic is uh is artificial intelligence.
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Oh man.
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Yeah, it's on my list.
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I wasn't gonna do it today, but it's on my list.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I I and specifically I I want to talk about like what what should a Christian do with artificial intelligence?
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Yeah, good question.
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Um I think we are called to uh trying to r start all the conversations in scripture.
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I think we're called to uh Romans 12, renew our minds, uh Matthew 22, love the Lord with our minds.
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And um I think artificial intelligence by the everyday Christian should be viewed as a tool, um, but not as a place to outsource your brain, as some say.
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Um one of the podcasts I was listening to this morning, I could send it to you, it was about AI, and they were using the phrase cognitive surrender.
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I like that a lot.
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Like you're at risk of cognitive surrender when you use too much AI, um, and then you just have brain rot.
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So I think it can be a tool for renewing your mind and a tool for loving the Lord with your mind uh more, uh, but you also run the risk of uh cognitive surrender and brain rot and outsourcing your brain, those kinds of things.
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Um I use it every day.
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I use it for all kinds of stuff.
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Um including uh sermon prep, which I know is is controversial uh for some.
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But I I use it all the time, but I use it as a as a tool and not to uh not to think for me as best I can.
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So um so I'll just I'll just give you like this is not for the everyday Christian, I suppose, but I'll just give you one example.
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Like I love using AI as a a dictation uh software, so like it's because it's an advanced dictation software, so I can just speak a paragraph to it and then say, don't change the wording, just give it back to me with spelling, grammar, punctuation, formatting, just give it back to me so I can stick it in the manuscript.
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It's like AI didn't do the thinking, but it made me more efficient as a tool that I could use.
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So that's where I would categorize it for the Christian, is as a tool.
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Uh some would say that it's quite literally demonic and we shouldn't use it at all.
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I don't know if I'd go that far, but there are some Christians who say that.
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So uh a tool for the Christian uh is is where I would land.
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I mean I think that I think that's a great point.
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I I like um I like what you said about uh just not allowing it to take over our mind.
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That's a that's a very interesting point.
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I've not literally thought of it from that angle.
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Because one of the because one of the things I was wondering was um what you thought about, you know, is there is there a line?
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Like there's there's ways that the world uses AI, that a Christian shouldn't use AI.
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And um, you know, there's also there's also ways that people use AI that they just shouldn't use AI.
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Obviously, like the there's a lot of um just terrible, terrible things that can be done with AI.
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Disgusting ways to use it, yeah, absolutely.
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And then, you know, like I'm you're starting school today, you know, I'll have students that'll use AI and turn it in as if it's their own work, you know, and and most times I can catch that.
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Um but so that's wrong for everybody.
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But is there do you think that there is a a place or a line where it would, you know, the world uses AI, but a Christian really shouldn't and you know shouldn't engage in it in that way beyond what you've already said about um obviously about not allowing it to take over our mind.
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I obviously I don't think anybody should do that.
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I don't think anybody should allow it to take over their mind.
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That's it's bad for everybody.
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But is there things that that are mainstream popular or okay that you think a Christian shouldn't engage in?
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Oh, that's a great question.
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Um I think there's uh there's the verse in um Is it Thessalonians where Paul says, I long to see you face to face.
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I think there's a there's a sense in Christianity, it's I mean it's also true of Jesus, incarnational theology, where uh the Lord uh the Lord God came and dwelt among us.
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There's a a a part of Christianity where human contact is is essential.
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And a lot of the places where AI is taking over human contact, um, like when you call customer service and it's an AI generated, like I've I've even talked to some uh AI bot on customer service before and I asked it, Are you AI?
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and she laughed, and she, I see it, uh it laughed and uh was like, No, people ask me that all the time.
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I'm like, No, you you are, I can tell.
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Um it's like that's that would be one where like I I think Christians um who run businesses, you know, run churches and Christian schools and nonprofits and whatnot, but also just businesses in the marketplace.
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Um use AI again as a tool to make your business more efficient, but try not to uh replace the the human contacts.
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Because I mean human contact from Christian to Christian is important, but I also think just human contact from you know Christian leaders to a lost world is important.
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So I don't like when AI replaces human contact.
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I guess is one area I would I would point to.
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That's a that's a great point.
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I mean, I guess that's what I would think too.
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Like um humans are created in the image of God.
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And so human contact is incredibly important.
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We are meant to uh we are meant to to do life together.
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And I so I do think anytime that AI fakes sentience or fakes like as if it is a person, I think is crossing a line.
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Yep.
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Like I think that we should be able to recognize AI is a great tool, but I think we should be able to recognize that it is a machine at any given time and not it, you know, and it not be pretending to be a uh a person.
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Yes.
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You know, so I I've also asked on the phone before, are you AI?
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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You can tell.
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You think yes, you can, but then there's also that little bit in the back of your head, like uh if I ask it if it's AI and it's not, it's a person.
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Is this person gonna be like offended?
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Like I'm gonna stop a mid-sentence and be like, are you AI?
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And mid-sentence is where you gotta stop them because a lot of times that that pause you know like makes it like really evident.
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But anyways, I do think that's a helpful discussion.
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I think there's more probably we could talk about with that.
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But a lot more, yeah.
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But I think that that is a helpful place to start is to not allow it to take over our minds and not uh allow it to take over uh the place of a human.
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Yeah, yeah.
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It's just like any new thing, like uh just the internet in general.
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Um, you know, you'll have your early adapters and then your skeptics, and I think we're still in that phase where AI is about three and a half-ish years old.
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Um it's really picking up some steam, but you just have a lot of early adapters, skeptics, people that are never gonna touch it.
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Uh and so it's yeah, it's just one of those one of those new things.
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So Yeah, for true.
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Uh next topic.
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Yeah, what do you got?
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Um a couple weeks ago, uh, you mentioned dreams, and so I'd like to hear more about your thoughts on dreams, uh, biblically and theologically as a Christian.
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So well, that was for my hot takes.
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Yes, it was um because I believe that all dreams are bad.
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Uh that was the hot take.
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Because if it's a good dream and you wake up, uh it no longer is good.
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That's bad.
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So it makes it a bad dream.
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But and a bad dream is obviously a bad dream.
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I don't like in dreams how like things don't don't work the way that reality works.
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Like, I really don't like stuff that's not based in reality.
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Right.
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Like, so I don't I don't enjoy superhero movies, I don't enjoy you know science fiction, like I just don't enjoy it.
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Like, if it's not the way that reality works, I just I just don't enjoy it.
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And so a dream, like it's my own mind, and I'm like, what are you doing, mind?
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Like you're like messing me up.
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Um I think the Bible talks about dreams in a couple different ways.
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I think it talks about um dreams in terms of our hopes for the future, you know, like what's your dream for the future?
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Like, I think there's some of that in the proverbs.
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Um but obviously the other times that the Bible talks about dreams, really, all the times that I could think of off the top of my head are um are God speaking to people in dreams.
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So you could go um you go to Jacob, like, and and I think that he ultimately woke up and wrestled with God.
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But like um, but there was an I think before that here there was a dream, you see, where um uh like even in the very beginning of the New Testament where um God spoke to um the wise men in a dream, warm them to go back a different way, talked to Joseph in a dream, told him they needed to go to Egypt.
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I mean um so we see that God did that, but uh like I I don't I don't know of any record after um after that, after Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, the most important event in human history.
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I I don't know of an event of a time after that in scripture necessarily where God spoke their dream.
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Oh well, uh you think about um Peter on the rooftop, so I guess that is that Acts chapter 10, maybe yeah, where you before it goes to Cornelius' house.
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Um so I think like that's why I say like if I'm gonna have a dream, I just want it to be like the only dream I want to have is if God's gonna talk to me.
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Um and sometimes it seems like even like I don't I don't know.
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It's you know like being warned in a dream.
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You know, you think of the of Joseph being warned in a dream not to go back to, you know, like um I don't know, but but like uh but then like practically you hear of people on the mission field like that'll encounter somebody that'll be like, I had a dream and Jesus was talking to me and told me that there was that I should look for you.
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Um and I don't think you can necessarily I don't think that that God reveals himself, you know, in um in a dream the way that he reveals himself in special revelation in the Bible, like necessarily.
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Um so I don't think that that's a salvific, you know, type thing where someone could be saved just from a dream necessarily.
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Um but at the same time, maybe I don't know.
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I mean Paul was that wasn't a dream or anything, but like God did speak to him, Jesus spoke to him.
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Um I don't know.
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This it feels like this feels kind of like just an incoherent like systematic theology of dreams that I'm just kind of rambling about.
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But it's I think what I've heard so far is like God definitely spoke to people through dreams in the Bible, and today he might nudge someone through a dream but won't save someone through a dream.
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Is that right?
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I mean, I I just don't I've never heard an account of somebody who is like, yeah, in a dream I learned that Jesus died on the cross for my sins, was buried and rose again.
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Right.
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I I think that in many cultures, um, like for example, in the in um Islamic cultures, uh they know about Jesus, so they would know the story of Jesus, and so I wonder if God revealing himself to someone in a dream would be enough for them to believe the gospel to be true, because they know what we say the gospel is.
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Um they believe something different about who Jesus is, um, because some guy in a cave said so.
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But like um, but I don't I don't I'm not aware of any times where someone came to faith in Christ through a dream.
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Um, because that would almost like I mean, if God was going to do that, and God can do anything he wants, like it would almost make missions like um irrelevant.
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But um, but I have heard from multiple different missionaries that have shared a testimony of someone saying, or even the people themselves saying, I had a dream, Jesus talked to me, he told me to seek out this missionary, or I had a dream, an angel talked to me, and he said that there was a missionary coming that's gonna tell me the good news or whatever.
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And that is the thing that spurred them to um to seek that person out or to encounter that missionary and and come to faith in Christ.
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But I have not ever heard um of someone saying, Yeah, I I learned the gospel in a dream, and so I became a Christian without ever meeting another Christian.
00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:29.360
What about um so I think God speaking to the lost through dreams?
00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:31.679
That's a that's a helpful uh topic.
00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:41.039
What about for the Christian, like for for you and me, or for Christians in our family, in our neighborhood, in our church, will God speak to them through dreams today?
00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:50.639
I think that I think it's just like a lot of the other, um a lot of the other um just gifts of the spirit, really.
00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:53.360
Like, you know, there do miracles still happen today?
00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:59.440
Like do people still get healed today because someone lays on their hands and you know prays for them the way they did in the book of Acts?
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:03.679
Yeah, probably, but like um I'm not a cessationist.
00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:07.200
I don't I don't think that the sign gifts, as they're called, stopped.
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:12.880
And so I just think that God uses them in a particular place at a particular time.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:28.160
And in and all the miracles of the Bible, for the most part, you could track all of them to like to certain time periods in history, certain small, short time periods in history where there's clusters of miracles that are recorded, and it's and and every time it's to point people to God.
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:30.079
And so I think that God still uses us.
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:39.119
I think the place that we see miracles today would be on the mission field more so than anywhere else, because it's in places where the it's affirming who God is.
00:17:39.440 --> 00:18:05.759
So I think I think God speaking in dreams is kind of the same way, like whereas it where um it's something that God does to point people to himself, and I think I think we'd be more likely to see it um in the same kind of place that we'd be able to that we would see some of those um some of those sign gifts, as they're called, you know, that are meant to point people to God and to affirm the message of God.
00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:27.440
And that's what you know, that's how the the healings accomplished in the book of Acts and in the early church, you know, like that's that's what was happening there is like it was it was kind of like affirming that these people are you know they're they are who they say they are, good Jesus is who he says he is, and here's how you know stand up and walk.
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:34.880
Um come back to life from the dead, you know, like if that makes sense.
00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:52.960
It does, yeah, and I I've uh I've thought a bit about this uh and obviously I brought the topic to the table, but one one verse um that's been helpful to me is uh Jeremiah 23, 28, uh where the Lord says to the prophet who has a dream, let him speak his dream, but to the prophet who has my word, let him speak my word.
00:18:53.200 --> 00:19:01.279
Almost like the word of God is superior to dreams, but where the word of God is absent, the Lord may still speak through dreams.
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:09.200
So like he was speaking through dreams as the scriptures were being written because they were still being written, they weren't accessible everywhere, so on and so forth.
00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:30.960
Today, now that the scriptures are finished and canonized and accessible, perhaps in places where they're not yet accessible, God may, you know, till the soil a little bit ahead of the scriptures and ahead of some missionaries, but where the scriptures are accessible, um in our context, for example, um Florida, um, God may not speak through dreams here.
00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:35.599
Um that's that's probably where I would land, but is that's that's similar to what you were thinking about.
00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:48.799
That's exactly yeah, that's kind of what I was in a long way uh trying to articulate is the exact same same idea that yes, yes, God can speak through dreams, but most likely that's not what he's going to do because we do have the word of God.
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:49.119
Yeah.
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:57.359
But I still wonder sometimes, like I still wonder, like when you have a dream, like, was there some sort of meaning in that dream?
00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:04.160
You know, like Joseph's dreams back in uh the Old Testament, the Old Testament, Joseph, you know, like is there a meaning in this dream?
00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:11.519
But I never I but I would be hesitant to say I would be very hesitant to just uh declare there to be a meaning to a dream.
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:12.960
Right, right, right.
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:18.960
Um yeah, yeah, I think the the word of God is is certainly superior but also sufficient.
00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:20.559
And so if you have it, that's that's enough.
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:23.279
Like you don't you don't need a dream if you have God's word.
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:25.759
So we have nature.
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:27.039
Yeah, that's true.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:27.759
I love that.
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:34.720
I love I actually loved the idea of general revelation that that we can simply look outside and know that there is a God.
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:36.880
And the lost world has no excuse.
00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:37.359
Yeah.
00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:42.160
Um but kind of like you said, perhap perhaps with dreams, you you can't be saved through a dream.
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:46.319
You can't be saved through general revelation, but you can be nudged in that direction.
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:47.039
Absolutely.
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:47.680
Uh for sure.
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:51.279
Yeah, that's and that's very clear in in the book of Romans.
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:52.480
Yeah, very good.
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:53.440
All right, dream on.
00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:54.480
Dream on.
00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:55.440
No, I would rather not.
00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:56.319
Dream on.
00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:58.160
No, thank you.
00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:00.319
Um all right.
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:05.039
I uh I would I think a lot about euphemisms.
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:05.599
Okay.
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:16.799
Um, so a euphemism being a um a word that takes the place of another word, um, and specifically euphemisms that take the place of swearing.
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:28.559
So I think this, I think the Bible is pretty clear on the fact that we shouldn't swear, basically, you know, like and like no one let no one holds a word proceed from your mouth, only such a word is good for education according to the need of the moment.
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:32.000
Um the Bible talks about coarse jesting and how we should avoid that.
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:38.079
The Bible Bible is pretty clear that we really shouldn't have rough speech as Christians.
00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:41.039
Um, at the same time, words are just words.
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:45.119
Um, so I think that there's an intent aspect of it.
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:59.839
So um, but what do you think about Christians using euphemisms in place of which I don't think they're thinking of it like this, but like so, like an example of somebody instead of saying, I don't want to use the swear words.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.160
But like somebody says oh sugar.
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:08.799
Like oh sugar, like you are just replacing something smelly with something sweet.
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:10.400
You know what I'm saying?
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:10.880
Yeah.
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:11.759
Or oh shoot.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:12.319
Yeah, yeah.
00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:36.480
Um Yeah, well I I suppose like taking one step backward, like I'm not totally convinced that um Christians shouldn't swear, which that's perhaps that's a hot take, but like um you already mentioned like words are just words and like words are um it's time to wake up.
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:37.519
Time to wake up.
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:39.200
Words are words are contextual.
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:51.599
Like for instance, the the F word, um of course I wouldn't say it on the podcast, but like if you read a lot of Shakespeare, which I don't, but um for this purpose, like Shakespeare uses the F word just like it's a normal word.
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:53.759
But today it's highly unacceptable.
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.279
Like you you would never like I I wouldn't use that word for any reason.
00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:59.279
Arguably culture accepts it pretty well.
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:00.480
Fair enough.
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:03.759
Um as a Christian, um but yeah, culturally, fair enough.
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:13.599
Um but like uh the the prophets in the old testament, like is there an instance where if they were speaking in English they would have sworn?
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:14.960
Did did Paul swear?
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:22.079
There's an instance um scuba la café, like there's an instance where Paul uses a word that could be translated into English as a curse word.
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:28.960
So I'm not totally convinced that there aren't occasions when Christians it's it's okay for a Christian to swear.
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:34.400
Um that said, if you say that we shouldn't, uh should we use euphemisms in their place?
00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:37.920
Um I don't know.
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:41.119
Um because I guess I do sometimes.
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:43.920
Like it's just simply saying, Oh my gosh, or oh my goodness.
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:51.759
Like that's that would be because like you the scriptures, the Psalms in particular would say, Oh my god, but like in a praiseworthy way.
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:52.000
Right.
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.519
But we're trying to avoid saying oh my god in like a shocked kind of a way.
00:23:55.920 --> 00:24:00.160
Um it's like I suppose I use euphemisms often.
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:06.000
Um I've heard others use silly, I won I don't want to go there.
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:08.640
Um yeah, I don't know.
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:13.279
Um I guess I guess I struggle with it because I'm I'm not totally convinced that Christians should never swear.
00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:27.599
So well I I and I I actually I tend to agree with you um about the fact that because that's why I bring up that I think they are just words, but I don't think that we should I think that you have to use them in a very strategic way, you know, in intentional way.
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:32.160
I mean um I don't think that we should just cuss like a sailor.
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:38.400
If I swear I do I don't I do mean cuss, not swear as if the as if taking an oath.
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:39.440
That's a good distinction.
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:39.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:41.920
I guess what everything I just said was with reference to cussing.
00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:45.039
Cussing, which is what I intended, but I said swear.
00:24:45.200 --> 00:25:00.880
Um so um so I I again do mean cussing, but I I think I think though, like you're you're those instances of scripture you're referring to, it's it's emphatics, right?
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:04.319
Like you're there it's being used to be emphatic.
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:10.640
So like when Paul says in um Romans 6, you know, should we continue and send that grace may abound?
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:22.000
Certainly not, you know, that's emphatically no, and some people would interpret that as as um as heck no, but you know, actually using hell.
00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:25.440
Yeah, there's another one, like I say what the heck often.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:27.359
Um anyways, go ahead.
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:33.680
Um I I I use euphemisms, I mean I certainly do, um, but I think about them all the time.
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:46.480
And and I wonder if it has to do with the intent of your heart so that the word isn't the thing that matters as much as it is the way you are speaking.
00:25:47.680 --> 00:26:01.680
That's that's true, because there could be a um on the extremes of the spectrum, there could be a correct way to cuss, but then also a very demeaning way to talk to someone without actually cussing as culture views those words.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:12.960
Um So I I guess if you if you if you stretch out the spectrum and look at both extremes, it really does come back to your heart posture, your your intent, the situation.
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:15.039
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:16.799
I think.
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:17.599
Yeah.
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:20.480
I I use euphemisms though.
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:23.119
Um often.
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:25.279
I'll probably use some today.
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:28.720
I may have already used some in the uh in the podcast.
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:29.440
I don't even know.
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:29.759
Yeah.
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:41.359
Um because they kind of just roll off, you know, like and and we don't think about them because they're not those, you know, those seven or eight words or whatever it is that we've deemed to be like these are terrible words.
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:41.920
Right.
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:48.160
Um but yeah, I mean I I really do think that it probably does have to do with what we intend.
00:26:48.240 --> 00:27:09.359
And I think so, like you're saying, like there's there's ways that you could use a cuss word that is in an appropriate way that's not truly any of those things that I said earlier outlined in scripture, you know, like coarse jesting or um or unwholesome or unwholesome talk, you know, like it's not necessarily unwholesome sometimes to use an emphatic.
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:16.319
Um but at the same time, I think that we probably cross the line a lot with euphemisms.
00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:16.960
Sure.
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:28.480
So like we're avoiding certain words, but we're we're still um but we're still crossing the line in the way that we're speaking, so that we would not be following what Ephesians 429 says.
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:33.599
Um, and we would be using unwholesome talk, but we've not used a single cuss word.
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:37.119
You're using wholesome words for unwholesome speech.
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:37.680
Right.
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:38.160
Yeah.
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:38.960
That's fair.
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:39.359
Yeah.
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:41.519
I think that's a great a great way to summarize it.
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:42.160
Yeah.
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:44.480
So you can see why I I think about it all the time.
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:45.039
Mm-hmm.
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:45.519
Mm-hmm.
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:48.640
Well, especially in this context, th this context, we're sitting in your classroom.
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:50.240
I I think about high schoolers.
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:57.039
Um are they uh some of the people that are most prone to use Christian high schoolers to use euphemisms?
00:27:57.680 --> 00:27:59.200
Um maybe so.
00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:01.119
Ah, maybe.
00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:04.079
I mean some of them will just cuss, but true.
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:20.720
Um but uh I I don't know, I think I think it's adults, you know, the ones that are like because I think when when I was growing up, you know, like those words were just so taboo, like you know, you don't say those words, not necessarily my house, like my mom thought cuss words were funny, she still does.
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:28.960
Maybe she's listening, and it's she's right, they they very much can be funny, but sparingly and in the right context.
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:29.920
I don't know.
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:32.160
Yeah, yep, yep, yep.
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:38.240
Um, well, you have class in a few minutes, speaking of um yes, last topic.
00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:42.240
Um what the heck do you think about the old testament?
00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:45.039
My last topic is the old testament, though.
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:46.960
Um, in in this context.
00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:51.279
So I think the everyday Christian should be reading their Bible every day.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:58.079
If you're going to do that, uh you should read all of the Bible, uh, the whole council of God, as Paul says in Acts 20, verse 27.
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:07.440
Um the Old Testament is uh well, some some parts of the New Testament as well, but the Old Testament in particular is sometimes hard to read, hard to understand.
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:11.039
Um I guess a two two prong question.
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.279
One is how should the everyday Christian think theologically about the Old Testament?
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:18.079
Um is it ancient, expired, useless?
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:19.759
Is there still validity to it?
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:21.920
Um it's kind of a softball.
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.400
But the the second question is the practical question.
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:30.880
What are some tips and tricks, do's and don'ts, really, for reading the Old Testament, like her hermeneutics of the Old Testament?
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:31.759
So Sure.
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:32.559
Good question.
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:35.920
I uh I'm actually reading the Old Testament right now at my daily devotion time.
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:42.480
I'm I I like to um read all the way through the Bible, and then when I get to the end, I start over.
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:42.799
Yeah.
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:45.440
So that's kind of my um that's kind of my devotional plan.
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:47.039
So I'm reading through the book of Proverbs.
00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:53.839
I used to read the read a proverb a day, you know, 31 Proverbs, that's pretty uh pretty obvious that that's a good thing to read every day, you know.
00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:01.119
Um so I'm reading through the book of Proverbs, and obviously there's very much, you know, those are generally true principles that we can learn and about God.
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:05.119
But the biggest thing we learn from the Old Testament is the character of God.
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:11.200
And so we read through it sometimes and we're like, oh my gosh, like these some of these stories, like what am I supposed to do with these things?
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:24.720
And I was listening, I was actually listening to a podcast the other day from uh our friend Stephen Madonna, um, the Holy Tangents podcast, and um he was talking, they they were talking about some of these passages in the Old Testament about you know, just what is up with this story kind of thing.
00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:31.039
And there are some stories in the old testament where you read them and you're like, I have no idea why this story is in here.
00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:35.920
I'm I think of the one of uh I think it's Jehu who you know kills his daughter.
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:41.359
Um well, I you know, they actually point out that it doesn't say that he killed his daughter necessarily, but I think he did.
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:45.839
But um, I think it was him or is it Jeff the maybe it's Jeff and Judges?
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:46.640
Yeah, in judges.
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:47.200
I don't remember.
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:48.000
It's one of those two.
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:48.960
Starts with a Jay.
00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:53.839
Um, but um, but you know, they point out some of those stories and how it's like, man, this is kind of crazy.
00:30:53.920 --> 00:31:13.119
And and one thing we have to remember about history, the what the narrative or what the uh genre of the old testament is, is that it is history, and so it's not necessarily meant to prescribe what we are to do in every aspect, it's describing what has happened, and so um, so a lot of it is descriptive, not prescriptive.
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:28.799
Obviously, there's a lot of prescriptive, there's laws, there's the ceremonial laws, you know, the whole book of Leviticus, and you know, um, there's there's so many things in there that are actually meant to be prescribed to the people of God at the time, but we have to th we have to look at it in its historical context and what God was trying to do.
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:35.599
And so I think that I think that um that it helps us to see.
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:44.880
I think the two biggest things to see is it shows us the character of God and it points to the fact that there's nothing that we can do on our own um to get back to God.
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:48.240
And that's the story over and over and over again is the failure, even the book of Judges.
00:31:48.319 --> 00:32:01.920
Like the book of Judges is just this out of control spiral of um of the of the people like uh doing the wrong thing, they're breaking the Mosaic covenant, so you know you follow my rules, you'll be in my land.
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:04.559
Um, you don't follow my rules, then you're gonna be oppressed.
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:08.559
And so it's they constantly stray from God, they get oppressed.
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:15.759
God sends a judge, they follow God for a little while until they don't, then they get oppressed, and every judge is worse than the one before.
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:20.720
And so it's this downward spiral all the way until they, okay, we need a king.
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:33.359
And it's it's almost like God has showed us like all the times, like we we think um if it would have just been like Garden of Eden straight to the cross, I think that we would think, oh, well, why didn't God give us an opportunity to work our way back to him?
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:45.359
And I think the Old Testament helps us understand that God, in very in varying iterations, God um God did did give us the opportunity to see how we can't get ourselves back to him.
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:50.880
And I think that's the primary message of the new of the Old Testament, and I think it's pointing to Jesus.
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:54.880
I think I think um it's kind of like the uh I love the Jesus Storybook Bible.
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:57.279
I don't know if I've mentioned it before, but I'll mention it again.
00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:04.640
Um I was also thinking today we should mention Liberty University every single chance we get and see if they want to eventually sponsor a couple of love nines.
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:06.960
My daughter started kindergarten at Liberty yesterday.
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:07.759
Exactly.
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:10.640
So yeah, Liberty, hey, Liberty University, Liberty Seminary.
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:17.119
Anyways, um, but uh the Jesus Storybook Bible says the subtitle, Every Story Whispers His Name.
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:25.039
And so as you read through the stories of the Old Testament, it's pointing to Jesus, it's pointing to our inadequacy and it's pointing to this the need for a savior.
00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:26.880
And I mean, we see that all the way from the garden.
00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:33.599
We see that in Genesis 3.15 that he's gonna provide the one that's gonna crush the head of the serpent um from the seed of the woman.
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:41.759
And so we trace that seed all the way through the Old Testament, all the way up to Jesus, which is why the genealogies are so important, especially the genealogies in the New Testament.
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:44.640
So all that I think is there intentionally.
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:50.640
I don't think that there's stuff in the Old Testament where it could be like, I don't really think we really need the book of you know, whatever.
00:33:50.799 --> 00:34:00.559
Um, I think all of it is accomplishing some part of the goal of God revealing himself to us and God revealing our need for a savior outside of ourselves.
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:17.199
And so I think the Old Testament is beautiful, and I think the Old Testament is worth studying, and I think the Old Testament is worth memorizing, and um and I think that we should learn everything we possibly can from it so that we can know who God truly is, so that we can worship him in spirit and truth the way that he says that we should.
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:26.320
Yeah, I think um I really like the summary of the the Old Testament shows us two things who God is and who we are, and how we can't work ourselves back to God.
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:33.039
I think that's um there's 39 books in there, but I think that's a very helpful summary of of how all those books work together.
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:40.239
Um I do think uh all scripture is breathed out by God, so the Old Testament is just as much scripture as the New Testament is.
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:42.159
I think you've mentioned something that's really important.
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:45.599
The Old Testament is uh it's literally true.
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:53.679
So there's there's not there's no fables uh or or moral uh you know you know just moral passages in the Old Testament.
00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:58.159
Uh what I mean by that is like stuff that's not true but has a the moral of the story, right?
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:03.039
Um so I think that th those are a few things that you pointed out that are really helpful.
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:08.079
Um here here's uh I'll get your thoughts on this and we can close it out.
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:17.519
Um a hermeneutic for the Old Testament that's been very helpful for me is not seeing yourself as the hero in the story.
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:20.800
So you a couple examples would be like David and Goliath.
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:25.199
We often want to see ourselves as David, but David points us to Jesus.
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:28.400
Exactly, and the scared Israelites on the sideline, that's us.
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:29.039
That's us, right?
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:38.800
Um or another one would be, you know, Moses is up on the mountaintop, and we want to think, uh, we're we're Moses, but actually we're down we're down making a calf.
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.360
We're down making idols, and that's us in the story.
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:42.880
Moses points to Jesus.
00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:47.039
And so you have thoughts on that, Hermeneutic, don't see yourself as the hero in the story.
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:48.320
No, I think that's absolutely true.
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:49.280
I th I think it's helpful.
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:54.000
I mean, I when I teach Old Testament, like moralizing is one of the things I try and teach students not to do.
00:35:54.079 --> 00:36:08.880
And the story of David and Goliath is the biggest story where you could show students how to not study the Bible because the story of David and Goliath is so um interpreted so wrongly so many times, because David is a is a Christ figure, not an us figure.
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:18.159
Um, and the you know, Goliath is not us slaying the giants of our sin, it's God showing that He is the one who is all powerful over sin and death.
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:22.400
Um so I think that's absolutely true, and I think you're right.
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:33.280
Like I think when we read the scripture, like we you know, we're as Americans, you know, we're we're made to think that you know our our natural tendency is to think that we're all the hero and we're the hero of our own stories and you know, whatever.
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:38.000
So I think that it is a tendency to put ourselves in that hero spot, but it is you're exactly right.
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:44.639
Like when we when we think about the story of Jesus, we should not think of ourselves as you know, as John standing there taking care of Jesus' mother.
00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:47.519
We should think of ourselves as the soldiers and the people jeering from the crowd.
00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:48.079
Yes.
00:36:48.320 --> 00:36:50.719
And uh I think you're I think you're absolutely right.
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:53.840
That is the way that we should read the Old Testament as well.
00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:57.199
We're not we're not the judge that God sent to, we're not Gideon.
00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:00.400
Um we are we're being judged.
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:04.639
Yeah, we are the people who needed the judge to come because we strayed from God and got oppressed.
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:06.559
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:07.760
Um good.
00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:09.840
Yeah, there's there's more we could say on that.
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:12.639
But um uh do you have any hot takes this morning?
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:13.679
First day of school hot takes.
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:14.559
Oh man.
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:20.480
Um man, I I wish I would have thought of a uh of one of my school hot takes.
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:23.199
Let me see if I can come up with one while you do your hot take.
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:25.280
Let me see if I can come up with one of my school ones.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:29.440
Oh see if I can come up with a hot take myself.
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:32.320
Um I'll update you on a hot take I had a couple weeks ago.
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:35.039
I said LeBron James would go to the Golden State Warriors.
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:36.320
I almost texted you when that happened.
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:43.760
He went to the Philadelphia 76ers, and uh my hot take is that he will win one more championship.
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:48.079
I'm trying to speak it into existence, but that is my hot take.
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:55.119
Uh I'm just gonna go with my original hot take, which is that it should be harder to get a driver's license and easier to lose it.
00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:56.000
Hmm.
00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:57.519
Fair enough.
00:37:58.000 --> 00:37:58.320
Okay.
00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:01.599
I don't have one, so well.
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:02.960
Okay then.
00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:05.119
We can talk about that some other time.
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:07.039
It's because I can't see good.
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:10.000
Someone thought one time it's because I got a DUI, which is not the case.
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:10.800
Yeah.
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:12.639
Why are you always taking Ubers care?
00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:12.960
Yeah.
00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:15.039
Why can't I always drive?
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:18.320
Um anyways, that was uh yeah, yeah.
00:38:18.559 --> 00:38:26.000
All right, well, this has been the Practical Moderate Matters podcast where we believe that making theology practical matters.
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:27.360
We'll see you the next time.
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:28.719
See you later.
00:00:05.839 --> 00:00:14.560
Greetings and a welcome to the Practical Matters Podcast, where we believe that making theology practical matters.
00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:16.079
I'm Kevin Saxton.
00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:17.679
This is Garrett Haywood.
00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:23.600
And we are about a third of the way through the month of August in the year of our Lord, 2026.
00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:29.440
It's crazy when you think of it that way because it's like August 11th, but we're a third of the way, you know.
00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:30.000
Oh, I know.
00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:31.519
When it hit August 1st, I couldn't believe it.
00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:33.280
Yeah, it's you blink and it'll be Christmas.
00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:34.560
Yes, yes.
00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:41.200
Um, I got to uh I got to hear Garrett preach on Sunday, and that's uh something I plan to do a lot more of.
00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:41.920
Yes, that's right.
00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:43.520
It was awesome.
00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:54.880
We preached on um uh Psalm 103, and um uh we had a record attendance at our campus on Sunday um and uh I enjoyed it a lot.
00:00:54.960 --> 00:01:00.479
It was a a template for total devotion to God, and um yeah, it was a good good Sunday.
00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:01.039
Good Sunday.
00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:01.759
Yeah.
00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:07.439
You know, ten of the people in that record attendance were people that came from from my house.
00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:08.239
From your house.
00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:16.319
We would have um we would have set a record even without you guys, but uh I was glad you guys were there for for many reasons.
00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:18.159
Uh one of them to help us set a record.
00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:19.680
So Yeah, yeah.
00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:23.280
I mean, you know, like people always say, like, does my vote really count?
00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:25.120
Or like if I'm there, does it really matter?
00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:27.280
I mean, when you show up with ten people.
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So I guess the answer is and it's ten because one of my daughter's boyfriend was there, but um and I guess the answer is just have more kids and it'll matter.
00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:38.079
Yes, fair enough, yeah.
00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:39.120
Have more babies.
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Yes, yes.
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Well, today is the first day of school for First Academy, so the Saxton family is all here.
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Well, a lot of us are here already and ready to go.
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And uh it's gonna be exciting.
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I do have a question, I mean an unrelated question, but uh I was thinking about this.
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I I'm certain that this is not the only podcast that you listen to.
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Yeah and you know, listen to like while you're making it or whatever.
00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.799
So uh what podcasts are the go-tos for Garrett Haywood?
00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:03.760
Oh my goodness.
00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:08.960
I uh I started three different podcasts on my way in this morning.
00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:13.439
Um I was kind of schizophrenic with my podcast listening this morning.
00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:15.360
I jumped from one to another to another.
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Um the Carrie Newhoff Leadership Podcast is definitely one of my favorites.
00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:24.639
The Craig Groschell Leadership Podcast is one of my favorites.
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Uh, the world and everything in it is my favorite news podcast.
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Um I listen to Locked On Orlando Magic and Locked On NBA just about every day.
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Uh and I could go on, but um, I think my regular listens are uh those two leadership podcasts, uh the news, and uh some sports podcasting.
00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:50.080
So I do all of my devotional work in the UVersion app.
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So I know some people do devotional work in podcast form, but that's not what I do.
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So what do you listen to?
00:02:56.319 --> 00:02:59.759
Well, my go-to is the briefing with Dr.
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Al Muller.
00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:03.199
Um I try and listen to that every day.
00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:04.960
I think that he's incredibly insightful.
00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:07.120
Yeah, um, I listen to Tony Evans.
00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:17.280
Um I just my parents listened to Tony Evans growing up, and I remembered sitting in the car as a child hearing Tony Evans, and the fact that I could still listen to Tony Evans is kind of cool.
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So I do listen to Tony Evans.
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I listened to um The Morning Wire and the Evening Wire from The Daily Wire, um Michael Knowles.
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And I used to listen to Nate Bargazzi's podcast with Dusty Slay and those fellas, but then they changed it now, and I don't I don't know.
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Oh, what'd they change?
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So like it's now called Public Figures.
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Okay.
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And it's and Nate's not on it anymore.
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Oh.
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And it's still great to hear from Dusty Slay because he's got a lot of outside opinions, you know, like just kind of kind of resonate with.
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But um I don't know.
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So it's funny because like comedians they're very funny fellas, they're very funny guys, but like I don't know if the podcast is funny.
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Yes, yeah.
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Stand-up comedy for an hour is very different from a podcast.
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Like you just mentioned, like I preached on Sunday.
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A 30-minute sermon is very different from a 30-minute podcast.
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It's like they're two very different forums.
00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:09.280
But you have some good jokes in your sermon, though.
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They're all they're all um we could talk about that sometime.
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They're all pre-planned.
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Like everything is word for word written out.
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I don't take the manuscript with me in the pulpit, but the manuscript is printed on my desk.
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Yeah.
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In case I get hit by a bus, somebody could get up there and read it.
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This is what Garrett was gonna say.
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Yes, actually, though.
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Um that's that's kind of in the back of my mind.
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But yeah, it's all all that, even though like I need a new TV.
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Actually, let me rephrase that.
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I want a new TV.
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Like all that stuff was pre-planned.
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So well, I uh let's let's ask some questions.
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We are our format is I brought two topics, you brought two topics, neither one of us know what the other has brought.
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So we gotta think on your feet.
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Um, my first topic is uh is artificial intelligence.
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Oh man.
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Yeah, it's on my list.
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I wasn't gonna do it today, but it's on my list.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I I and specifically I I want to talk about like what what should a Christian do with artificial intelligence?
00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:10.639
Yeah, good question.
00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:16.399
Um I think we are called to uh trying to r start all the conversations in scripture.
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I think we're called to uh Romans 12, renew our minds, uh Matthew 22, love the Lord with our minds.
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And um I think artificial intelligence by the everyday Christian should be viewed as a tool, um, but not as a place to outsource your brain, as some say.
00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:39.920
Um one of the podcasts I was listening to this morning, I could send it to you, it was about AI, and they were using the phrase cognitive surrender.
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I like that a lot.
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Like you're at risk of cognitive surrender when you use too much AI, um, and then you just have brain rot.
00:05:47.920 --> 00:06:00.959
So I think it can be a tool for renewing your mind and a tool for loving the Lord with your mind uh more, uh, but you also run the risk of uh cognitive surrender and brain rot and outsourcing your brain, those kinds of things.
00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:02.800
Um I use it every day.
00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:04.560
I use it for all kinds of stuff.
00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:09.839
Um including uh sermon prep, which I know is is controversial uh for some.
00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:16.959
But I I use it all the time, but I use it as a as a tool and not to uh not to think for me as best I can.
00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:22.959
So um so I'll just I'll just give you like this is not for the everyday Christian, I suppose, but I'll just give you one example.
00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:39.040
Like I love using AI as a a dictation uh software, so like it's because it's an advanced dictation software, so I can just speak a paragraph to it and then say, don't change the wording, just give it back to me with spelling, grammar, punctuation, formatting, just give it back to me so I can stick it in the manuscript.
00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:43.920
It's like AI didn't do the thinking, but it made me more efficient as a tool that I could use.
00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:47.519
So that's where I would categorize it for the Christian, is as a tool.
00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:52.160
Uh some would say that it's quite literally demonic and we shouldn't use it at all.
00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:55.680
I don't know if I'd go that far, but there are some Christians who say that.
00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:59.199
So uh a tool for the Christian uh is is where I would land.
00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:01.279
I mean I think that I think that's a great point.
00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:08.399
I I like um I like what you said about uh just not allowing it to take over our mind.
00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:09.759
That's a that's a very interesting point.
00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:12.079
I've not literally thought of it from that angle.
00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:19.120
Because one of the because one of the things I was wondering was um what you thought about, you know, is there is there a line?
00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:24.480
Like there's there's ways that the world uses AI, that a Christian shouldn't use AI.
00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:29.600
And um, you know, there's also there's also ways that people use AI that they just shouldn't use AI.
00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:35.199
Obviously, like the there's a lot of um just terrible, terrible things that can be done with AI.
00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:37.120
Disgusting ways to use it, yeah, absolutely.
00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:45.120
And then, you know, like I'm you're starting school today, you know, I'll have students that'll use AI and turn it in as if it's their own work, you know, and and most times I can catch that.
00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:49.120
Um but so that's wrong for everybody.
00:07:49.279 --> 00:08:04.560
But is there do you think that there is a a place or a line where it would, you know, the world uses AI, but a Christian really shouldn't and you know shouldn't engage in it in that way beyond what you've already said about um obviously about not allowing it to take over our mind.
00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:06.079
I obviously I don't think anybody should do that.
00:08:06.160 --> 00:08:07.759
I don't think anybody should allow it to take over their mind.
00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:09.199
That's it's bad for everybody.
00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:15.360
But is there things that that are mainstream popular or okay that you think a Christian shouldn't engage in?
00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:16.879
Oh, that's a great question.
00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:25.120
Um I think there's uh there's the verse in um Is it Thessalonians where Paul says, I long to see you face to face.
00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:34.399
I think there's a there's a sense in Christianity, it's I mean it's also true of Jesus, incarnational theology, where uh the Lord uh the Lord God came and dwelt among us.
00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:39.840
There's a a a part of Christianity where human contact is is essential.
00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:52.879
And a lot of the places where AI is taking over human contact, um, like when you call customer service and it's an AI generated, like I've I've even talked to some uh AI bot on customer service before and I asked it, Are you AI?
00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:58.480
and she laughed, and she, I see it, uh it laughed and uh was like, No, people ask me that all the time.
00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:00.240
I'm like, No, you you are, I can tell.
00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:11.440
Um it's like that's that would be one where like I I think Christians um who run businesses, you know, run churches and Christian schools and nonprofits and whatnot, but also just businesses in the marketplace.
00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:18.720
Um use AI again as a tool to make your business more efficient, but try not to uh replace the the human contacts.
00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:26.480
Because I mean human contact from Christian to Christian is important, but I also think just human contact from you know Christian leaders to a lost world is important.
00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:30.000
So I don't like when AI replaces human contact.
00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:31.840
I guess is one area I would I would point to.
00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:33.039
That's a that's a great point.
00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:34.879
I mean, I guess that's what I would think too.
00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:38.240
Like um humans are created in the image of God.
00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:42.879
And so human contact is incredibly important.
00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:47.039
We are meant to uh we are meant to to do life together.
00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:55.440
And I so I do think anytime that AI fakes sentience or fakes like as if it is a person, I think is crossing a line.
00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:55.840
Yep.
00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:08.480
Like I think that we should be able to recognize AI is a great tool, but I think we should be able to recognize that it is a machine at any given time and not it, you know, and it not be pretending to be a uh a person.
00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:08.960
Yes.
00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:12.720
You know, so I I've also asked on the phone before, are you AI?
00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:13.279
Yes.
00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:14.559
Yeah.
00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:15.759
You can tell.
00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:22.960
You think yes, you can, but then there's also that little bit in the back of your head, like uh if I ask it if it's AI and it's not, it's a person.
00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:26.080
Is this person gonna be like offended?
00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:28.960
Like I'm gonna stop a mid-sentence and be like, are you AI?
00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:33.840
And mid-sentence is where you gotta stop them because a lot of times that that pause you know like makes it like really evident.
00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:37.440
But anyways, I do think that's a helpful discussion.
00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:39.360
I think there's more probably we could talk about with that.
00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:40.639
But a lot more, yeah.
00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:49.759
But I think that that is a helpful place to start is to not allow it to take over our minds and not uh allow it to take over uh the place of a human.
00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:50.639
Yeah, yeah.
00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:53.919
It's just like any new thing, like uh just the internet in general.
00:10:54.080 --> 00:11:01.519
Um, you know, you'll have your early adapters and then your skeptics, and I think we're still in that phase where AI is about three and a half-ish years old.
00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:08.159
Um it's really picking up some steam, but you just have a lot of early adapters, skeptics, people that are never gonna touch it.
00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:11.840
Uh and so it's yeah, it's just one of those one of those new things.
00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:13.840
So Yeah, for true.
00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:15.120
Uh next topic.
00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:16.320
Yeah, what do you got?
00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:26.720
Um a couple weeks ago, uh, you mentioned dreams, and so I'd like to hear more about your thoughts on dreams, uh, biblically and theologically as a Christian.
00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:29.279
So well, that was for my hot takes.
00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:32.879
Yes, it was um because I believe that all dreams are bad.
00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:36.639
Uh that was the hot take.
00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:41.919
Because if it's a good dream and you wake up, uh it no longer is good.
00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:42.639
That's bad.
00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:43.840
So it makes it a bad dream.
00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:45.519
But and a bad dream is obviously a bad dream.
00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:50.159
I don't like in dreams how like things don't don't work the way that reality works.
00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:52.960
Like, I really don't like stuff that's not based in reality.
00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:53.360
Right.
00:11:53.519 --> 00:12:00.480
Like, so I don't I don't enjoy superhero movies, I don't enjoy you know science fiction, like I just don't enjoy it.
00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:03.360
Like, if it's not the way that reality works, I just I just don't enjoy it.
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:07.039
And so a dream, like it's my own mind, and I'm like, what are you doing, mind?
00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:08.879
Like you're like messing me up.
00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:13.200
Um I think the Bible talks about dreams in a couple different ways.
00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:19.120
I think it talks about um dreams in terms of our hopes for the future, you know, like what's your dream for the future?
00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:21.360
Like, I think there's some of that in the proverbs.
00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:33.279
Um but obviously the other times that the Bible talks about dreams, really, all the times that I could think of off the top of my head are um are God speaking to people in dreams.
00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:42.000
So you could go um you go to Jacob, like, and and I think that he ultimately woke up and wrestled with God.
00:12:42.080 --> 00:13:02.080
But like um, but there was an I think before that here there was a dream, you see, where um uh like even in the very beginning of the New Testament where um God spoke to um the wise men in a dream, warm them to go back a different way, talked to Joseph in a dream, told him they needed to go to Egypt.
00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:15.919
I mean um so we see that God did that, but uh like I I don't I don't know of any record after um after that, after Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, the most important event in human history.
00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:21.679
I I don't know of an event of a time after that in scripture necessarily where God spoke their dream.
00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:30.799
Oh well, uh you think about um Peter on the rooftop, so I guess that is that Acts chapter 10, maybe yeah, where you before it goes to Cornelius' house.
00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:39.440
Um so I think like that's why I say like if I'm gonna have a dream, I just want it to be like the only dream I want to have is if God's gonna talk to me.
00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:45.919
Um and sometimes it seems like even like I don't I don't know.
00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:48.159
It's you know like being warned in a dream.
00:13:48.240 --> 00:14:05.759
You know, you think of the of Joseph being warned in a dream not to go back to, you know, like um I don't know, but but like uh but then like practically you hear of people on the mission field like that'll encounter somebody that'll be like, I had a dream and Jesus was talking to me and told me that there was that I should look for you.
00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:16.720
Um and I don't think you can necessarily I don't think that that God reveals himself, you know, in um in a dream the way that he reveals himself in special revelation in the Bible, like necessarily.
00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:23.840
Um so I don't think that that's a salvific, you know, type thing where someone could be saved just from a dream necessarily.
00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:26.960
Um but at the same time, maybe I don't know.
00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:35.440
I mean Paul was that wasn't a dream or anything, but like God did speak to him, Jesus spoke to him.
00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:38.960
Um I don't know.
00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:44.399
This it feels like this feels kind of like just an incoherent like systematic theology of dreams that I'm just kind of rambling about.
00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:55.679
But it's I think what I've heard so far is like God definitely spoke to people through dreams in the Bible, and today he might nudge someone through a dream but won't save someone through a dream.
00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:56.159
Is that right?
00:14:56.399 --> 00:15:02.480
I mean, I I just don't I've never heard an account of somebody who is like, yeah, in a dream I learned that Jesus died on the cross for my sins, was buried and rose again.
00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:02.879
Right.
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:22.480
I I think that in many cultures, um, like for example, in the in um Islamic cultures, uh they know about Jesus, so they would know the story of Jesus, and so I wonder if God revealing himself to someone in a dream would be enough for them to believe the gospel to be true, because they know what we say the gospel is.
00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:28.639
Um they believe something different about who Jesus is, um, because some guy in a cave said so.
00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:38.159
But like um, but I don't I don't I'm not aware of any times where someone came to faith in Christ through a dream.
00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:47.039
Um, because that would almost like I mean, if God was going to do that, and God can do anything he wants, like it would almost make missions like um irrelevant.
00:15:47.200 --> 00:16:04.480
But um, but I have heard from multiple different missionaries that have shared a testimony of someone saying, or even the people themselves saying, I had a dream, Jesus talked to me, he told me to seek out this missionary, or I had a dream, an angel talked to me, and he said that there was a missionary coming that's gonna tell me the good news or whatever.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:15.120
And that is the thing that spurred them to um to seek that person out or to encounter that missionary and and come to faith in Christ.
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:24.720
But I have not ever heard um of someone saying, Yeah, I I learned the gospel in a dream, and so I became a Christian without ever meeting another Christian.
00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:29.360
What about um so I think God speaking to the lost through dreams?
00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:31.679
That's a that's a helpful uh topic.
00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:41.039
What about for the Christian, like for for you and me, or for Christians in our family, in our neighborhood, in our church, will God speak to them through dreams today?
00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:50.639
I think that I think it's just like a lot of the other, um a lot of the other um just gifts of the spirit, really.
00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:53.360
Like, you know, there do miracles still happen today?
00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:59.440
Like do people still get healed today because someone lays on their hands and you know prays for them the way they did in the book of Acts?
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:03.679
Yeah, probably, but like um I'm not a cessationist.
00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:07.200
I don't I don't think that the sign gifts, as they're called, stopped.
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:12.880
And so I just think that God uses them in a particular place at a particular time.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:28.160
And in and all the miracles of the Bible, for the most part, you could track all of them to like to certain time periods in history, certain small, short time periods in history where there's clusters of miracles that are recorded, and it's and and every time it's to point people to God.
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:30.079
And so I think that God still uses us.
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:39.119
I think the place that we see miracles today would be on the mission field more so than anywhere else, because it's in places where the it's affirming who God is.
00:17:39.440 --> 00:18:05.759
So I think I think God speaking in dreams is kind of the same way, like whereas it where um it's something that God does to point people to himself, and I think I think we'd be more likely to see it um in the same kind of place that we'd be able to that we would see some of those um some of those sign gifts, as they're called, you know, that are meant to point people to God and to affirm the message of God.
00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:27.440
And that's what you know, that's how the the healings accomplished in the book of Acts and in the early church, you know, like that's that's what was happening there is like it was it was kind of like affirming that these people are you know they're they are who they say they are, good Jesus is who he says he is, and here's how you know stand up and walk.
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:34.880
Um come back to life from the dead, you know, like if that makes sense.
00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:52.960
It does, yeah, and I I've uh I've thought a bit about this uh and obviously I brought the topic to the table, but one one verse um that's been helpful to me is uh Jeremiah 23, 28, uh where the Lord says to the prophet who has a dream, let him speak his dream, but to the prophet who has my word, let him speak my word.
00:18:53.200 --> 00:19:01.279
Almost like the word of God is superior to dreams, but where the word of God is absent, the Lord may still speak through dreams.
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:09.200
So like he was speaking through dreams as the scriptures were being written because they were still being written, they weren't accessible everywhere, so on and so forth.
00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:30.960
Today, now that the scriptures are finished and canonized and accessible, perhaps in places where they're not yet accessible, God may, you know, till the soil a little bit ahead of the scriptures and ahead of some missionaries, but where the scriptures are accessible, um in our context, for example, um Florida, um, God may not speak through dreams here.
00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:35.599
Um that's that's probably where I would land, but is that's that's similar to what you were thinking about.
00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:48.799
That's exactly yeah, that's kind of what I was in a long way uh trying to articulate is the exact same same idea that yes, yes, God can speak through dreams, but most likely that's not what he's going to do because we do have the word of God.
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:49.119
Yeah.
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:57.359
But I still wonder sometimes, like I still wonder, like when you have a dream, like, was there some sort of meaning in that dream?
00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:04.160
You know, like Joseph's dreams back in uh the Old Testament, the Old Testament, Joseph, you know, like is there a meaning in this dream?
00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:11.519
But I never I but I would be hesitant to say I would be very hesitant to just uh declare there to be a meaning to a dream.
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:12.960
Right, right, right.
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:18.960
Um yeah, yeah, I think the the word of God is is certainly superior but also sufficient.
00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:20.559
And so if you have it, that's that's enough.
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:23.279
Like you don't you don't need a dream if you have God's word.
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:25.759
So we have nature.
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:27.039
Yeah, that's true.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:27.759
I love that.
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:34.720
I love I actually loved the idea of general revelation that that we can simply look outside and know that there is a God.
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:36.880
And the lost world has no excuse.
00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:37.359
Yeah.
00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:42.160
Um but kind of like you said, perhap perhaps with dreams, you you can't be saved through a dream.
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:46.319
You can't be saved through general revelation, but you can be nudged in that direction.
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:47.039
Absolutely.
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:47.680
Uh for sure.
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:51.279
Yeah, that's and that's very clear in in the book of Romans.
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:52.480
Yeah, very good.
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:53.440
All right, dream on.
00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:54.480
Dream on.
00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:55.440
No, I would rather not.
00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:56.319
Dream on.
00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:58.160
No, thank you.
00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:00.319
Um all right.
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:05.039
I uh I would I think a lot about euphemisms.
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:05.599
Okay.
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:16.799
Um, so a euphemism being a um a word that takes the place of another word, um, and specifically euphemisms that take the place of swearing.
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:28.559
So I think this, I think the Bible is pretty clear on the fact that we shouldn't swear, basically, you know, like and like no one let no one holds a word proceed from your mouth, only such a word is good for education according to the need of the moment.
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:32.000
Um the Bible talks about coarse jesting and how we should avoid that.
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:38.079
The Bible Bible is pretty clear that we really shouldn't have rough speech as Christians.
00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:41.039
Um, at the same time, words are just words.
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:45.119
Um, so I think that there's an intent aspect of it.
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:59.839
So um, but what do you think about Christians using euphemisms in place of which I don't think they're thinking of it like this, but like so, like an example of somebody instead of saying, I don't want to use the swear words.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.160
But like somebody says oh sugar.
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:08.799
Like oh sugar, like you are just replacing something smelly with something sweet.
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:10.400
You know what I'm saying?
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:10.880
Yeah.
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:11.759
Or oh shoot.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:12.319
Yeah, yeah.
00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:36.480
Um Yeah, well I I suppose like taking one step backward, like I'm not totally convinced that um Christians shouldn't swear, which that's perhaps that's a hot take, but like um you already mentioned like words are just words and like words are um it's time to wake up.
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:37.519
Time to wake up.
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:39.200
Words are words are contextual.
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:51.599
Like for instance, the the F word, um of course I wouldn't say it on the podcast, but like if you read a lot of Shakespeare, which I don't, but um for this purpose, like Shakespeare uses the F word just like it's a normal word.
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:53.759
But today it's highly unacceptable.
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.279
Like you you would never like I I wouldn't use that word for any reason.
00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:59.279
Arguably culture accepts it pretty well.
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:00.480
Fair enough.
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:03.759
Um as a Christian, um but yeah, culturally, fair enough.
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:13.599
Um but like uh the the prophets in the old testament, like is there an instance where if they were speaking in English they would have sworn?
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:14.960
Did did Paul swear?
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:22.079
There's an instance um scuba la café, like there's an instance where Paul uses a word that could be translated into English as a curse word.
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:28.960
So I'm not totally convinced that there aren't occasions when Christians it's it's okay for a Christian to swear.
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:34.400
Um that said, if you say that we shouldn't, uh should we use euphemisms in their place?
00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:37.920
Um I don't know.
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:41.119
Um because I guess I do sometimes.
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:43.920
Like it's just simply saying, Oh my gosh, or oh my goodness.
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:51.759
Like that's that would be because like you the scriptures, the Psalms in particular would say, Oh my god, but like in a praiseworthy way.
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:52.000
Right.
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.519
But we're trying to avoid saying oh my god in like a shocked kind of a way.
00:23:55.920 --> 00:24:00.160
Um it's like I suppose I use euphemisms often.
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:06.000
Um I've heard others use silly, I won I don't want to go there.
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:08.640
Um yeah, I don't know.
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:13.279
Um I guess I guess I struggle with it because I'm I'm not totally convinced that Christians should never swear.
00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:27.599
So well I I and I I actually I tend to agree with you um about the fact that because that's why I bring up that I think they are just words, but I don't think that we should I think that you have to use them in a very strategic way, you know, in intentional way.
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:32.160
I mean um I don't think that we should just cuss like a sailor.
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:38.400
If I swear I do I don't I do mean cuss, not swear as if the as if taking an oath.
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:39.440
That's a good distinction.
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:39.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:41.920
I guess what everything I just said was with reference to cussing.
00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:45.039
Cussing, which is what I intended, but I said swear.
00:24:45.200 --> 00:25:00.880
Um so um so I I again do mean cussing, but I I think I think though, like you're you're those instances of scripture you're referring to, it's it's emphatics, right?
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:04.319
Like you're there it's being used to be emphatic.
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:10.640
So like when Paul says in um Romans 6, you know, should we continue and send that grace may abound?
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:22.000
Certainly not, you know, that's emphatically no, and some people would interpret that as as um as heck no, but you know, actually using hell.
00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:25.440
Yeah, there's another one, like I say what the heck often.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:27.359
Um anyways, go ahead.
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:33.680
Um I I I use euphemisms, I mean I certainly do, um, but I think about them all the time.
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:46.480
And and I wonder if it has to do with the intent of your heart so that the word isn't the thing that matters as much as it is the way you are speaking.
00:25:47.680 --> 00:26:01.680
That's that's true, because there could be a um on the extremes of the spectrum, there could be a correct way to cuss, but then also a very demeaning way to talk to someone without actually cussing as culture views those words.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:12.960
Um So I I guess if you if you if you stretch out the spectrum and look at both extremes, it really does come back to your heart posture, your your intent, the situation.
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:15.039
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:16.799
I think.
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:17.599
Yeah.
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:20.480
I I use euphemisms though.
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:23.119
Um often.
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:25.279
I'll probably use some today.
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:28.720
I may have already used some in the uh in the podcast.
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:29.440
I don't even know.
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:29.759
Yeah.
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:41.359
Um because they kind of just roll off, you know, like and and we don't think about them because they're not those, you know, those seven or eight words or whatever it is that we've deemed to be like these are terrible words.
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:41.920
Right.
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:48.160
Um but yeah, I mean I I really do think that it probably does have to do with what we intend.
00:26:48.240 --> 00:27:09.359
And I think so, like you're saying, like there's there's ways that you could use a cuss word that is in an appropriate way that's not truly any of those things that I said earlier outlined in scripture, you know, like coarse jesting or um or unwholesome or unwholesome talk, you know, like it's not necessarily unwholesome sometimes to use an emphatic.
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:16.319
Um but at the same time, I think that we probably cross the line a lot with euphemisms.
00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:16.960
Sure.
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:28.480
So like we're avoiding certain words, but we're we're still um but we're still crossing the line in the way that we're speaking, so that we would not be following what Ephesians 429 says.
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:33.599
Um, and we would be using unwholesome talk, but we've not used a single cuss word.
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:37.119
You're using wholesome words for unwholesome speech.
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:37.680
Right.
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:38.160
Yeah.
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:38.960
That's fair.
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:39.359
Yeah.
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:41.519
I think that's a great a great way to summarize it.
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:42.160
Yeah.
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:44.480
So you can see why I I think about it all the time.
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:45.039
Mm-hmm.
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:45.519
Mm-hmm.
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:48.640
Well, especially in this context, th this context, we're sitting in your classroom.
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:50.240
I I think about high schoolers.
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:57.039
Um are they uh some of the people that are most prone to use Christian high schoolers to use euphemisms?
00:27:57.680 --> 00:27:59.200
Um maybe so.
00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:01.119
Ah, maybe.
00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:04.079
I mean some of them will just cuss, but true.
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:20.720
Um but uh I I don't know, I think I think it's adults, you know, the ones that are like because I think when when I was growing up, you know, like those words were just so taboo, like you know, you don't say those words, not necessarily my house, like my mom thought cuss words were funny, she still does.
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:28.960
Maybe she's listening, and it's she's right, they they very much can be funny, but sparingly and in the right context.
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:29.920
I don't know.
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:32.160
Yeah, yep, yep, yep.
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:38.240
Um, well, you have class in a few minutes, speaking of um yes, last topic.
00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:42.240
Um what the heck do you think about the old testament?
00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:45.039
My last topic is the old testament, though.
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:46.960
Um, in in this context.
00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:51.279
So I think the everyday Christian should be reading their Bible every day.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:58.079
If you're going to do that, uh you should read all of the Bible, uh, the whole council of God, as Paul says in Acts 20, verse 27.
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:07.440
Um the Old Testament is uh well, some some parts of the New Testament as well, but the Old Testament in particular is sometimes hard to read, hard to understand.
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:11.039
Um I guess a two two prong question.
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.279
One is how should the everyday Christian think theologically about the Old Testament?
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:18.079
Um is it ancient, expired, useless?
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:19.759
Is there still validity to it?
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:21.920
Um it's kind of a softball.
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.400
But the the second question is the practical question.
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:30.880
What are some tips and tricks, do's and don'ts, really, for reading the Old Testament, like her hermeneutics of the Old Testament?
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:31.759
So Sure.
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:32.559
Good question.
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:35.920
I uh I'm actually reading the Old Testament right now at my daily devotion time.
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:42.480
I'm I I like to um read all the way through the Bible, and then when I get to the end, I start over.
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:42.799
Yeah.
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:45.440
So that's kind of my um that's kind of my devotional plan.
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:47.039
So I'm reading through the book of Proverbs.
00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:53.839
I used to read the read a proverb a day, you know, 31 Proverbs, that's pretty uh pretty obvious that that's a good thing to read every day, you know.
00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:01.119
Um so I'm reading through the book of Proverbs, and obviously there's very much, you know, those are generally true principles that we can learn and about God.
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:05.119
But the biggest thing we learn from the Old Testament is the character of God.
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:11.200
And so we read through it sometimes and we're like, oh my gosh, like these some of these stories, like what am I supposed to do with these things?
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:24.720
And I was listening, I was actually listening to a podcast the other day from uh our friend Stephen Madonna, um, the Holy Tangents podcast, and um he was talking, they they were talking about some of these passages in the Old Testament about you know, just what is up with this story kind of thing.
00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:31.039
And there are some stories in the old testament where you read them and you're like, I have no idea why this story is in here.
00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:35.920
I'm I think of the one of uh I think it's Jehu who you know kills his daughter.
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:41.359
Um well, I you know, they actually point out that it doesn't say that he killed his daughter necessarily, but I think he did.
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:45.839
But um, I think it was him or is it Jeff the maybe it's Jeff and Judges?
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:46.640
Yeah, in judges.
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:47.200
I don't remember.
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:48.000
It's one of those two.
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:48.960
Starts with a Jay.
00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:53.839
Um, but um, but you know, they point out some of those stories and how it's like, man, this is kind of crazy.
00:30:53.920 --> 00:31:13.119
And and one thing we have to remember about history, the what the narrative or what the uh genre of the old testament is, is that it is history, and so it's not necessarily meant to prescribe what we are to do in every aspect, it's describing what has happened, and so um, so a lot of it is descriptive, not prescriptive.
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:28.799
Obviously, there's a lot of prescriptive, there's laws, there's the ceremonial laws, you know, the whole book of Leviticus, and you know, um, there's there's so many things in there that are actually meant to be prescribed to the people of God at the time, but we have to th we have to look at it in its historical context and what God was trying to do.
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:35.599
And so I think that I think that um that it helps us to see.
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:44.880
I think the two biggest things to see is it shows us the character of God and it points to the fact that there's nothing that we can do on our own um to get back to God.
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:48.240
And that's the story over and over and over again is the failure, even the book of Judges.
00:31:48.319 --> 00:32:01.920
Like the book of Judges is just this out of control spiral of um of the of the people like uh doing the wrong thing, they're breaking the Mosaic covenant, so you know you follow my rules, you'll be in my land.
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:04.559
Um, you don't follow my rules, then you're gonna be oppressed.
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:08.559
And so it's they constantly stray from God, they get oppressed.
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:15.759
God sends a judge, they follow God for a little while until they don't, then they get oppressed, and every judge is worse than the one before.
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:20.720
And so it's this downward spiral all the way until they, okay, we need a king.
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:33.359
And it's it's almost like God has showed us like all the times, like we we think um if it would have just been like Garden of Eden straight to the cross, I think that we would think, oh, well, why didn't God give us an opportunity to work our way back to him?
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:45.359
And I think the Old Testament helps us understand that God, in very in varying iterations, God um God did did give us the opportunity to see how we can't get ourselves back to him.
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:50.880
And I think that's the primary message of the new of the Old Testament, and I think it's pointing to Jesus.
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:54.880
I think I think um it's kind of like the uh I love the Jesus Storybook Bible.
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:57.279
I don't know if I've mentioned it before, but I'll mention it again.
00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:04.640
Um I was also thinking today we should mention Liberty University every single chance we get and see if they want to eventually sponsor a couple of love nines.
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:06.960
My daughter started kindergarten at Liberty yesterday.
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:07.759
Exactly.
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:10.640
So yeah, Liberty, hey, Liberty University, Liberty Seminary.
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:17.119
Anyways, um, but uh the Jesus Storybook Bible says the subtitle, Every Story Whispers His Name.
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:25.039
And so as you read through the stories of the Old Testament, it's pointing to Jesus, it's pointing to our inadequacy and it's pointing to this the need for a savior.
00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:26.880
And I mean, we see that all the way from the garden.
00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:33.599
We see that in Genesis 3.15 that he's gonna provide the one that's gonna crush the head of the serpent um from the seed of the woman.
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:41.759
And so we trace that seed all the way through the Old Testament, all the way up to Jesus, which is why the genealogies are so important, especially the genealogies in the New Testament.
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:44.640
So all that I think is there intentionally.
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:50.640
I don't think that there's stuff in the Old Testament where it could be like, I don't really think we really need the book of you know, whatever.
00:33:50.799 --> 00:34:00.559
Um, I think all of it is accomplishing some part of the goal of God revealing himself to us and God revealing our need for a savior outside of ourselves.
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:17.199
And so I think the Old Testament is beautiful, and I think the Old Testament is worth studying, and I think the Old Testament is worth memorizing, and um and I think that we should learn everything we possibly can from it so that we can know who God truly is, so that we can worship him in spirit and truth the way that he says that we should.
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:26.320
Yeah, I think um I really like the summary of the the Old Testament shows us two things who God is and who we are, and how we can't work ourselves back to God.
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:33.039
I think that's um there's 39 books in there, but I think that's a very helpful summary of of how all those books work together.
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:40.239
Um I do think uh all scripture is breathed out by God, so the Old Testament is just as much scripture as the New Testament is.
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:42.159
I think you've mentioned something that's really important.
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:45.599
The Old Testament is uh it's literally true.
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:53.679
So there's there's not there's no fables uh or or moral uh you know you know just moral passages in the Old Testament.
00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:58.159
Uh what I mean by that is like stuff that's not true but has a the moral of the story, right?
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:03.039
Um so I think that th those are a few things that you pointed out that are really helpful.
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:08.079
Um here here's uh I'll get your thoughts on this and we can close it out.
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:17.519
Um a hermeneutic for the Old Testament that's been very helpful for me is not seeing yourself as the hero in the story.
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:20.800
So you a couple examples would be like David and Goliath.
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:25.199
We often want to see ourselves as David, but David points us to Jesus.
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:28.400
Exactly, and the scared Israelites on the sideline, that's us.
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:29.039
That's us, right?
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:38.800
Um or another one would be, you know, Moses is up on the mountaintop, and we want to think, uh, we're we're Moses, but actually we're down we're down making a calf.
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.360
We're down making idols, and that's us in the story.
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:42.880
Moses points to Jesus.
00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:47.039
And so you have thoughts on that, Hermeneutic, don't see yourself as the hero in the story.
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:48.320
No, I think that's absolutely true.
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:49.280
I th I think it's helpful.
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:54.000
I mean, I when I teach Old Testament, like moralizing is one of the things I try and teach students not to do.
00:35:54.079 --> 00:36:08.880
And the story of David and Goliath is the biggest story where you could show students how to not study the Bible because the story of David and Goliath is so um interpreted so wrongly so many times, because David is a is a Christ figure, not an us figure.
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:18.159
Um, and the you know, Goliath is not us slaying the giants of our sin, it's God showing that He is the one who is all powerful over sin and death.
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:22.400
Um so I think that's absolutely true, and I think you're right.
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:33.280
Like I think when we read the scripture, like we you know, we're as Americans, you know, we're we're made to think that you know our our natural tendency is to think that we're all the hero and we're the hero of our own stories and you know, whatever.
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:38.000
So I think that it is a tendency to put ourselves in that hero spot, but it is you're exactly right.
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:44.639
Like when we when we think about the story of Jesus, we should not think of ourselves as you know, as John standing there taking care of Jesus' mother.
00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:47.519
We should think of ourselves as the soldiers and the people jeering from the crowd.
00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:48.079
Yes.
00:36:48.320 --> 00:36:50.719
And uh I think you're I think you're absolutely right.
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:53.840
That is the way that we should read the Old Testament as well.
00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:57.199
We're not we're not the judge that God sent to, we're not Gideon.
00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:00.400
Um we are we're being judged.
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:04.639
Yeah, we are the people who needed the judge to come because we strayed from God and got oppressed.
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:06.559
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:07.760
Um good.
00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:09.840
Yeah, there's there's more we could say on that.
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:12.639
But um uh do you have any hot takes this morning?
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:13.679
First day of school hot takes.
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:14.559
Oh man.
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:20.480
Um man, I I wish I would have thought of a uh of one of my school hot takes.
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:23.199
Let me see if I can come up with one while you do your hot take.
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:25.280
Let me see if I can come up with one of my school ones.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:29.440
Oh see if I can come up with a hot take myself.
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:32.320
Um I'll update you on a hot take I had a couple weeks ago.
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:35.039
I said LeBron James would go to the Golden State Warriors.
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:36.320
I almost texted you when that happened.
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:43.760
He went to the Philadelphia 76ers, and uh my hot take is that he will win one more championship.
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:48.079
I'm trying to speak it into existence, but that is my hot take.
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:55.119
Uh I'm just gonna go with my original hot take, which is that it should be harder to get a driver's license and easier to lose it.
00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:56.000
Hmm.
00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:57.519
Fair enough.
00:37:58.000 --> 00:37:58.320
Okay.
00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:01.599
I don't have one, so well.
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:02.960
Okay then.
00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:05.119
We can talk about that some other time.
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:07.039
It's because I can't see good.
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:10.000
Someone thought one time it's because I got a DUI, which is not the case.
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:10.800
Yeah.
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:12.639
Why are you always taking Ubers care?
00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:12.960
Yeah.
00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:15.039
Why can't I always drive?
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:18.320
Um anyways, that was uh yeah, yeah.
00:38:18.559 --> 00:38:26.000
All right, well, this has been the Practical Moderate Matters podcast where we believe that making theology practical matters.
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:27.360
We'll see you the next time.
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:28.719
See you later.
