WEBVTT
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Greetings and welcome to the Practical Matters Podcast, where we believe that making theology practical matters.
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I'm Kevin Saxton.
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This is Garrett Haywood.
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And this is episode 005.
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Double O five.
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That means in a couple weeks we'll get to 007.
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That's right.
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Whatever that means.
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Not really into fantasy.
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That's not really fantasy.
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Anyways, um, what uh Garrett, what have you, what are you working on this week?
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This week, um it is uh promotion Sunday at church.
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So uh as we're recording this on August the 4th, uh this coming Sunday, August the 9th, is promotion Sunday at church for our age-graded ministries, and so uh we're making a big deal out of that um for our for our kids uh kids' ministry.
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Um also working on I mentioned a couple weeks ago, working on starting some new uh connect groups and some new home groups uh at our campus.
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And then uh I'm working on a a sermon on Psalm 103.
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I started working on that yesterday.
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Uh Pastor Cliff was at our campus yesterday, preached live and in person, and I'm excited to be back in the pulpit um this coming Sunday.
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So uh a lot of plates spinning uh for me.
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So uh but today's a big day for you.
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What are you working on?
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Yeah, today is uh today's back to back to work for the staff at First Academy here.
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So I'm back at school today, getting ready for students to start one week from today.
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So that's pretty exciting.
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I I enjoy it better when the students are actually here.
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So we'll get through this week and then we'll have students and it'll be fun.
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Looking forward to it.
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Awesome.
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That you guys start uh the students are here Thursday?
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No, no, Tuesday.
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Well, we have back we have Meet the Teacher on Thursday, okay, and then uh the students are back on um did I say Thursday?
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Because Meet the Teacher's on Thursday.
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Yeah, and then students are back on Tuesday.
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They're back on Tuesday, okay, okay.
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All right.
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Four-day work week to start.
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Well, I mean, we'll be here Monday, but it's a four-day school week.
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Yeah, gotcha.
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Okay.
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Awesome.
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So that's what's going on.
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Um, all seven of the kiddos getting ready to come back.
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Last time that we'll have seven students starting school.
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It is since I have a senior for the first time.
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So it's wild.
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Yeah.
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And it's just milestone after milestone, you know.
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I'll have five in uh middle school and high school.
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So first time I've ever had that.
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Yeah.
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And it will not be your only time, will it?
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No, no.
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Uh no, there'll be a time where I think the youngest five will all be in middle school and high school together.
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Okay.
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I believe is how it works.
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Yeah.
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I don't know.
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Something like that.
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A lot to keep up with.
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Just take it one year at a time.
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Yep.
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Well, uh, the format that we have chosen is that we uh each bring two questions that we haven't talked about with each other and we ask those questions to each other.
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So uh do you want to go first?
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Sure.
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Um so question number one uh for me, I'd like to talk about the topic of discipleship, which is uh intentionally broad, but I'll give you a second to think about it, set it up a little bit.
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So um I'm part of this like monthly uh coaching group, and they were asking some good questions about discipleship recently that are very simple questions, but I think helpful to think about, uh, not only for pastors, but for the everyday Christian.
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And so they were questions like this uh what is discipleship?
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Um, how do you make a disciple?
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So do you meet with the person?
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Do you just hang out with them?
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Do you teach them something?
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What do you teach them?
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Uh, and then how long does it take?
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Like when when are you done?
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And so uh I thought I thought those were very simple but thought-provoking questions, not only for Christian leaders, but also for the everyday Christian who's seeking to uh become a better disciple, but also become a multiplier and make disciples of their own.
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So um that's enough preamble.
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What is discipleship?
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Yeah, so um obviously the uh something we're supposed to be doing, right?
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Otherwise we wouldn't really even be thinking about it.
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But Jesus said, Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teach him um all the things I've commanded you, and lo, I'm with you always, even to the end of the age.
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So we are supposed to be making disciples, obviously.
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Um I think I think that the discipleship process is part of the sanctification process, you know, where so we have justification where we are saved, you know, and just as if I'd never sinned, you know, some people remember it that way, I'm justified, but um but we um we have the j we're justified when we are saved, and we're sanctified throughout our lives as God um just reveals sin in our lives and makes us into the people that He has called us to be.
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So that process is never done until we are face to face with Jesus, either in death or his return.
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Come quickly, Lord Jesus.
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But um, I think the discipleship process is part of that overall process of sanctification.
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So I don't think we're ever actually done.
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Okay, I think we're always becoming disciples.
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And I think um, I think that the goal of our discipleship ought to be to get um one another to be at the point where we are um doing a lot of self-growth, you know, like where we're seeking out the discipleship as opposed to just being disciples.
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You know, if someone comes a believer in Jesus, we may not, they may not even know what they don't know.
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You know, they don't they don't even know what processes, what what do we what do I need to do?
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And so you need somebody to to be or be a discipler in your life.
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Um but the goal of that discipleship ought to be to get somebody to the point where they are let's say self-feeder, you know, like somebody who reads the word on their own, someone who um someone who's seeking out um godly advice, someone who's seeking out um instruction and you know, those types of things.
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So I think that ought to be kind of what we're aiming towards, but I also don't think the process is ever over.
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Um I think that one of the best ways that you can um that we should, or one of the main things we should be discipling people towards is to disciple others themselves.
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Because I think that when you're discipling somebody, it has a sense of accountability even in your own life.
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Yeah.
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So if I were discipling, you know, uh a young man, like there's an element of they're also helping to in my discipleship, you know, like my followership of Jesus, because discipleship is really just an is is uh is followership essentially um of Jesus and not, you know, we're not making disciples of ourselves, we're making disciples of Jesus, followers of Jesus.
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So um, but I think the practical aspect of it, like how do you do it, like I I think is wide open.
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You know, I don't I think that when Jesus said, Go therefore make disciples, he didn't say and take them through a 12-week Bible study or you know, have them read all the way through the entire Bible, or I mean, I think that's a great thing to do.
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I think all those things are great things to do, but I Jesus didn't say this is exactly how you do it.
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And so I think we have to look at the lives of Jesus, we have to look at the life of Paul, we have to look at the life of John, like in the people that were discipling people in the early church.
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Um, and what were they doing?
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Like, Paul's writing letters, John's writing some letters.
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I mean, John was you know also like really in obviously they were engaged in in the the life of the church, so Paul's starting churches.
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Um, we see some of the discipleship in the way that he's discipling um Timothy and Titus, and so um so I think we could see a lot of that there, but I don't think that there's like I think we have to use godly wisdom to be like, what do I need to do?
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Like, what does this person need?
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And sometimes it is like they just need to be around, you know, like they they've not been around Christians, so maybe the best thing for them is that we just spend a lot of time together.
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Um, you know, Paul said in in 1 Corinthians, imitate me as I'm imitate Christ.
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And so maybe we need to, maybe we need to help them to do exactly that.
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Like, how how how can I get you to live more like me and less like the world, you know, and just sometimes it's just spending time together.
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But I think there's just got to be more than that, too.
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You know, it's just like when we disciple our kids, um, we're looking for everyday moments to be able to have conversations, to be able to teach them something.
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I think it's the same way when we're discipling other people, whether they're older or younger than us.
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You know, we're looking for opportunities to be like, hey, this reminds me of what God said in this passage of scripture, and this is how it applies to this situation.
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You know, so uh I think there is an aspect of just doing life together.
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I think that um doing something formal is great.
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I think that figuring out ways to have accountability is great.
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Like I think there's just there's a there's a lot that can be done.
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But I think that it um, I mean, just like you leave the question intentionally brought, I think that Jesus left it intentionally brought as well.
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Like there's a lot of ways to do it, and we see Jesus doing it in a lot of ways too.
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That's that's true.
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Um picking up on something you said about how discipling someone else uh helps in your own spiritual growth.
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I think that's really, really important because um sometimes in the church we think about uh serving as a a sidestep from my spiritual growth.
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And I'm gonna serve and I'm gonna pour out until it drains me, and then I'll go back to my own discipleship and my own growth.
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But instead we should think about serving as um uh almost like a next step in your spiritual growth and in your own discipleship because uh Mark 10, 45, you know, Jesus came to serve, not to be served, as you always say, you're never more like Jesus than when you're serving, and so when you're discipling someone else, um that's one of the best ways to grow yourself.
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Um last I suppose last uh comment and question, uh I recently heard a podcast with Robbie Gallaty, uh a familiar name to many, most likely.
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He said that when he got to his current church, uh the discipleship ministry had 1,500 people in it.
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So a larger church, uh discipleship ministry had 1,500 people in it.
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He said he audited the discipleship ministry and found out that a lot of it was, you know, a group of guys hanging out on Sunday afternoon for three hours watching a football game and calling it discipleship.
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And so in his words, he grew the discipleship ministry from 1,500 people to 600 people in in its first year and kind of reformatted what what it looks like.
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Because watching a football game is there's nothing wrong with that, I I don't think.
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Um, but you just can't you can't call that discipleship because Jesus didn't say go therefore and make disciples by baptizing them and hanging out together.
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Go therefore and make disciples by baptizing them and teaching them.
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True.
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So you gotta there has to be a teaching element to it.
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So it is wide open, but as it's wide open, as as if you've discipled your kids or as you've discipled students or other adults, what are some uh what are some practical texts that you would point people to?
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And it might just be the book of John or this book or that book, but like if if someone's looking to disciple someone else for the first time, what are some pieces of material you would point them to?
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Um I think I think it you know, you there's um we used a resource for a short time at our prior church where we you know we used like the seven stories of seven stories of hope or something like that.
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Um I found that to be incredibly helpful.
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And what it is is you know it goes through seven different um interactions in um in the gospels where Jesus is interacting with somebody or telling a parable or whatever it is, and um and the strategy was like you read the story in the scriptures, have them summarize the story in the scripture, or read the story of the scripture as a summary.
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I forget exactly how the pattern works, but some of those stories are incredibly helpful.
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And that's what I think back to when I think about like how are we supposed to disciple people, like think about like Jesus and the woman at the well, and Jesus and Nicodemus, and you know, like these interactions that Jesus had, Jesus and Peter, you know, like obviously we're not Jesus, but we see how Jesus discipled.
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Um so I think sometimes pointing to those kind of stories, but I mean one of the one of the best examples, I mean some of the best examples of discipleship is the letters to the churches, because that's exactly what Paul is doing.
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Paul is teaching them in those letters, and that's a treasure that we have.
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Um, and I think if I was if I were going to point someone to any of those in particular, it would be like the pastoral epistles, we typically call them of um of 1 2 Timothy and Titus, because that's what Paul's doing.
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Like he's literally like instructing and teaching another individual.
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You know, those letters are written to it's kind of funny because a lot of times we're like, who wrote the book of Mark?
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Mark, who wrote the book of Timothy?
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But you get to 1 2 Timothy, he's like, Who wrote the book of 1 2 Timothy?
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Timothy.
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Nope, it was Paul to Timothy.
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Um, but um, but I think that those are really helpful texts.
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I but I I just I'm I'm a big fan of like Jesus' interactions with people because you see so much about like different evangelistic methods that you can see in Jesus, you know, different um, I mean, I don't know, I just the way that Jesus hung out with sinners, but he was still teaching, you know, like there's just so many things in the words of Jesus.
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So I mean, it would be difficult for me to say, well, here's one thing.
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I think it would be I think the book of John is a great place to go uh because a lot of those stories are in that book.
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Um, but I think depending on the maturity of the person asking me, I would it would be probably the book of John or the pastoral epistles.
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I like the pastoral epistles because like uh Corinthians, first and second Corinthians, it's written to the church or the churches in Corinth.
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Um but you're right that Timothy and Titus are written to individuals that Paul is discipling.
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I um I like that.
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That's that's a good good place to start.
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Um so is Philemon.
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That's also true.
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A little different.
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It's just something I'm thinking about.
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Uh very basic questions, but um, I think helpful things to think about and rethink about often.
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So you know, uh not to stay here too long, but the book of James is another one.
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Yeah.
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Um that's such a practical, practical book.
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Speaking of practical matters, yeah, James.
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Practical.
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Yeah.
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It's so practical.
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Um, in fact, if you haven't read James in a while, go read James.
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Um, so I have trying to think of which one.
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I won I was there was one thing that you said that I was gonna piggyback off of as one of my topics, but we'll stick with my first one.
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All right, so um, how do we make decisions?
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Like, how do how as a Christian do I make decisions?
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And is the process the same for like me deciding what I'm going to do for breakfast this morning and whether or not I'm gonna move my family a thousand miles away?
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How do we make decisions?
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So um I think that's a I think that's a really good question.
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Um so I I so to to point things back to scripture, um I would point us to uh Psalm 37, four.
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If you delight in the Lord, uh then he will give you the desires of your heart.
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And so I would say when it comes to decision making, uh the Lord ultimately wants you to do what you want.
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And that sounds uh very trite at face value, because uh God is not a cosmic Santa Claus that if you delight in him, he's gonna give you all the desires of your heart, but if you delight in him, he's going to change the desires of your heart so that you have within you righteous desires to act upon.
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And so I would say that Christians who are walking with the Lord and delighting in the Lord should uh make decisions based on what they want to do, because ultimately the sovereign God of the universe is placing those desires within them.
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But now, how do you know if a desire within you is a righteous desire worth acting upon?
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That's the question.
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Um and so you know, a filter that uh is not new to you, but uh is is very helpful, is um you know, the the five steps of uh check the scriptures, um pray about it, seek wise counsel, uh look for open doors, and then step number five, do what you want.
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And so uh no, you don't you don't necessarily like you use the simple example of what do I have for breakfast.
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Well, let me let me look in the scriptures and see if the Chick-fil-A breakfast burritos in the scriptures, you know, that there are different levels of of decision making, but um I think when it comes to bigger decisions, um which is some somewhat of a subjective term, how you'd find bigger, but when it comes to bigger decisions, check the scriptures, pray about it, uh seek wise counsel, look for open doors, and then do what you want.
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And if if the scriptures do not prohibit what you're looking to do, uh then then move forward to prayer.
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If you have a piece about it in prayer, if you have support from wise counsel, if there are open doors for you to do what you want, then then do what you want.
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Psalm 374.
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That's that's how we should make decisions.
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Um so that's that's a scripture I'd point to.
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Uh a book I would point to uh by Kevin DeYoung is the book Just Do Something.
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Um I think Christians need to make decisions faster and then just learn on the go.
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And so um make a decision and gather some information from the action you took from that decision and then make another decision and then make another one, just just do something.
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Right.
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Um so many Christian non-Christians as well, but so many Christians are just stuck in paralysis by analysis and indecision, and they could learn so much by just doing something.
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And so uh I think that's true not only in leading something like a church uh or a school or or an entity of any kind, but also your personal life and your family.
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Um just just do something and don't be afraid to make a mistake and learn from it and do something else.
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:13.200
And so um, so the answer to your question in my mind is uh number one, do what you want if it's a righteous desire, the Lord placed it there.
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:16.160
And number two, just do it quickly, just just go.
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:17.920
So um I don't know.
00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:24.000
I I uh maybe par partially partially that's my personality as a very decisive person.
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:34.559
Um and so I'm probably on the extreme of that spectrum to toward quick decision making, but um, I think there should be an element of decisiveness in every Christian.
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.599
Um so those are my quick thoughts on decision making.
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:38.720
What do you think about that?
00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:53.519
Yeah, I wonder I wonder where um where we draw the line for what is just a routine decision as opposed to Yeah, because like as opposed to something that's gonna have longer term value.
00:18:53.599 --> 00:19:06.640
So like even if I'm a college student and I'm deciding what classes am I gonna take this school year, um that is seems like a routine decision, but at the same time, the classes that I take, I'm gonna be in them for uh for four months.
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:08.319
Um is that a big decision?
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.640
You know, so like where where do we draw the line?
00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:19.839
And I and I get like I'm I'm actually rereading the uh just do something book, and and I give that to spoiler alert, I give that as a graduation gift to students.
00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:31.359
So um but uh I say that because I know some of them listen, so like if you invite me to your graduation party, you know what you're getting.
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:44.160
But anyways, um uh so the uh um so I so I get the dis like you know, just kind of be decisive thing, which is which is natural for some people and not natural for others, you know.
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:50.559
Like that's you know kind of depends on your personality type, however you, you know, however you believe in those personality types, how they break down or whatever.
00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:57.839
Um but it's uh it's just kind of like where what it what is a big decision, you know, you know what I'm saying?
00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:03.839
Like, where's the line between um what am I having for breakfast and uh what am I doing for the rest of my life?
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:06.960
Although is you never really have to keep doing the same thing for the rest of your life.
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:12.960
But I mean, except that if I get married, you know, on this, how do I decide who this, you know, who I'm gonna marry, you know, kind of thing.
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:16.960
But so like what is the line between you know, where is the that's that's a spectrum, right?
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:20.160
So what do I have for breakfast, who am I gonna marry?
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:23.119
Um, so where is the where's the line?
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:24.799
What makes it a big decision?
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:32.960
Um the example you used about college classes, like I would go back to uh do what you want.
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:40.160
Like I would I would take classes that you're looking forward to, and a part of it is you have to do what you're required to do for a certain degree.
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:51.359
And you know, I've we've all taken classes we weren't looking forward to, but when you have some um liberty, if you will, in that decision, do do the classes that you want to do, take the classes you want to take.
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:58.400
I think there's a lot of um this may not be the exact answer you're looking for, but that I think there's also a lot that we can uh we can pre-decide.
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:02.880
And so like when you're in a situation, you've already made the decision years ago.
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:09.599
And so that goes for uh uh again, we're you use the board big, but that goes for big things and little things.
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:11.519
Uh you brought up the example of marriage.
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:16.000
Well, I mean I've pre-decided that I am faithful to my wife, period, end of story.
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:17.759
Like that's that's not even on the table.
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:22.640
And so whenever an opportunity arises, I've already pre-decided what I'm doing, uh which is nothing.
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:24.160
Like I'm faithful to my wife.
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:29.279
And so like that that decision is already made, even though that's a big decision, it's it was made years ago.
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:36.799
Um but you know, even when it comes to little things, if you're dieting, you know, you you pre-decide I'm not having sweets this week.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:42.000
And so when you walk into the workroom and there's donuts, you don't have a decision to make, it's already made for you.
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:51.279
And so I I I don't think that's quite the answer you're looking for, but there's there's a lot that you can that you can pre decide when it comes to big things.
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:59.759
And so when you encounter them, you're not as prone, uh we're we're still fallen humans, but you're not as prone to uh impulsivity.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.160
or anything like that because you've made up in your mind what you're going to do or not do.
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:09.920
So I I I think still do what you want, do it quickly and pre-decide as much as you can.
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.400
And that'll help you move quickly not necessarily quickly, but move smoothly through life.
00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:15.279
So yeah.
00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:25.359
Well the the predecision thing is yeah that's that's so true and and so important that that when certain circumstances arise that you know how you're going to decide.
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:45.200
And obviously you know like we we we've made big decisions, you know, you and I in various ways obviously so you know I'm not necessarily looking for anything in particular just trying to help I think that's I think it's a very practical practical thing of like man how how do I make decisions?
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:53.039
Where is the line of like when I need to start following the five step outline as opposed to I just feel like this kind of coffee this morning.
00:22:53.359 --> 00:23:06.720
Yeah so you mentioned like both of us have made big decisions like one of the big decisions I made was four years ago um four years and one month ago to move here to Leesburg Florida and join the staff of First Baptist Leesburg.
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:16.480
And um you know there are some things that you know in in a non in a non-charismatic way I felt the Lord speaking to us in in that process of praying through things.
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:20.960
But ultimately like Hannah and I made that decision because we we just wanted to come here.
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:37.119
Like we we had a desire both of us together had a desire to come here and um not necessarily a desire to leave where we were but a a burning desire to come here and we're like well that's we think that's God's sign to to come here is is the desire that He's placed within both of us together.
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:52.079
And so even that was like one of the biggest changes we've made in our lives as a married couple but it was a decision made on not God riding in the clouds or visiting us in a dream but placing a desire within our hearts.
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:57.680
And now we look back on that and see that was that was clearly the the will of the Lord that we would do that.
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:08.880
So um I only bring that up as you said we've we've both made big decisions recently and that's one of the big decisions our family made but it was made on what we wanted to do as we delighted in the Lord.
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:11.279
So anyways.
00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:18.000
I was going to say something and I for Oh um what do you think what do you think about uh pro and con lists?
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:39.519
Um I make pro and con lists often um I think it's helpful to have someone audit your your pro and con lists someone that you trust because sometimes you are thinking of something as a pro that's really a con or thinking of something as a con that's really a pro.
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:46.480
And decisions shouldn't necessarily be made by um you know majority vote.
00:24:46.640 --> 00:25:03.200
Well there's seven pros and three cons, so I guess I'm doing this, you know but I think the most helpful thing I I like pro and con lists but I I like to have someone else look at them because I often misunderstand things or misplace things on those lists.
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:04.880
But yeah I gener generally like them.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:05.200
Yeah.
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:05.519
Yeah.
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:13.039
Yeah do you uh I never really like make a formal pro and con list but I kind of do the same idea in my head.
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:34.079
Because I do think that you know like you said like you could have three pros and seven cons but the pros outweigh the cons because there's so much weight in some of the pros and so much um frivolousness or you know like in the in the cons you know especially for me because I'm like I'm I'm a realist you know I know I think you're an optimist.
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:46.799
I am but I'm a realist and realists tend towards pessimism so uh so sometimes I'll have a con on there that's just because like I'm grumpy you know or whatever.
00:25:47.119 --> 00:26:06.559
So um so they could be they could be I get grumpy too for the record but yes um probably just less often I don't know but uh but I think you know I think that um I think that could be a helpful I I do them in my head I do a lot of things just in my in my head you know so like I'm I'm making the list but it's I'm not necessarily writing it out.
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:14.960
But I don't know it could be a helpful way of making a decision as long as you as long as you understand that some pros outweigh some cons and some cons outweigh some pros.
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:28.720
Yeah that to me is like step three in that five step you know scripture prayer counsel open doors desires step three is sharing with some wise counsel like here are some pros and cons I'm seeing in this decision.
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:29.759
What are you seeing?
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:34.480
That to me is where the the pro-con list comes up so yeah I like them.
00:26:34.799 --> 00:27:00.880
Yeah and the multitude of counselors their safety Solomon said that uh so all right what uh what else do you have today's topic um it's it's related to what we just talked about in a way uh step number two in that process was prayer and I I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on prayer so again I'll let you gather your thoughts a little bit but um basically why should we do it?
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:06.400
So I um I think the scriptures are abundantly clear that we should we're commanded to pray.
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:11.599
Uh the scriptures even give us uh several templates you think about the Lord's prayer in Matthew 6.
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:13.839
So you should do it here's how to do it.
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:30.000
Uh but why bother um neither of us are open theists like some open theists would say that God doesn't know the future or God hasn't made his mind up about certain things and by praying you actually change the mind of God like why neither of us would would believe that.
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:39.359
But believing in a sovereign uh God uh why bother praying what's what's the point thoughts on that?
00:27:39.759 --> 00:28:11.359
Yeah I mean the simple answer is the one you already said I mean first Thessalonians 511 pray without ceasing um so obviously we are supposed to pray um you know for uh Peter says that cast a lot cares on him because he cares for us I think I think the prayer is I think lots of times we we think about prayer because we think okay it's gonna change God and in reality a lot of times what prayer does is it changes us and um and I think that that's part of it.
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.680
I think that's I mean one like prayer is one of the it's how we communicate with God.
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:38.960
If like if I'm gonna have a relationship with God I mean am I just gonna not talk to him um am I not going to you know like the uh Bow says to um present your quest before God I think of the verse that I almost have it like in my head but I but you know like with um prayer and supplications you know submit your quest or something like that to God.
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:42.160
But um Philippians 4, 6 and 7.
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:43.519
That's what I'm thinking is Philippians.
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:51.039
Yeah I just can't articulate it at the moment but um it's too early in the morning not a morning person.
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:53.039
See it's another thing I'm not a morning person.
00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:58.960
But anyways um but so I think I think that it we are supposed to present our request to God.
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:11.839
I think we are supposed to pray I mean I do think that God hears our prayers I do think that um that God acts upon our prayers I I mean um I think you know like sometimes people will be like well God's just waiting to do something he's just waiting for you to pray or whatever.
00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:25.119
Like I I don't know I don't know I mean God's going to do what God's going to do because God is sovereign but I but I do think that we are supposed to um supposed to pray the Bible does say you know in various places that God changed his mind or God relented.
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:34.400
And I think that some of that is just you know like our human way of having to explain something you know like we have to use words that have a meaning and so we'll say God changed his mind.
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:36.640
Did God really change his mind?
00:29:36.799 --> 00:30:25.920
I mean I don't I don't know you know like uh God's the the plan's been written to the at the end from the beginning you know um and I think part of that too is that we're thinking of time and uh as a human you know where God is outside of time and space and so he's not interacting with time in the same way that we are interacting with time or we're we're we're completely bound by time and he is not so um so I think we're you know like a lot of times we misunderstand some of those things because we just don't understand that God is acting outside of time and space but um but God is also interacting directly with time and space so I mean because he's in complete and under control of all that is so I I mean so I think that there are there is an aspect to if I pray that God would heal somebody I mean that God heals that person because I prayed and asked that God would heal that person.
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:42.160
And so um I think that that's absolutely something we're supposed to be doing and that's that's I mean even Jesus did that you know um but I think also you know you think of Jesus in the in the Garden of Gethsemane where he prayed and said if possible take this cut for me but not with your will but mine be done.
00:30:42.319 --> 00:31:01.759
And I think that's an example of God changing you know changing our heart changing you know it's it's Jesus is crying out to the Father and not it's not the father who changed it's Jesus who changed um in his acceptance really he didn't change he was always going to do it but um but like in his acceptance of it.
00:31:01.839 --> 00:31:17.680
I think the same is true of us like when we um when we when we pray to God when we call out to God for things like it changes our perspective on things it changes the way we're thinking about the situation that we're facing um it helps us to to um to rest in the fact that God is in ultimate and utter control and it's not up to us.
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:37.839
So I mean I think um I think that there's so many things happening when we pray that we don't have to completely understand every single aspect of it but man we probably ought to do it because Jesus said to do it God said to do it Jesus said to do it Jesus did it and so um so we absolutely ought to be doing it.
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:48.720
So I I mean you know I'm saying like it's I I you know you could there's obviously books written on on prayer and on the sovereignty of God and on you know how all that works together.
00:31:48.799 --> 00:32:03.599
But I think that we do it because we are commanded to do it because we know that there is a benefit in the world when we are praying and then we know that there's a benefit in our own hearts when we are praying um and we must communicate with our Father.
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:55.440
And so we uh we pray I I find sometimes when um in life you know you sometimes get you know you get in a rut or you get in a routine and you just realize like man I have not been praying like I want to be or like I usually do um and I see the aspects I see the effects in my own life of you know like it causes like a drift you know like um and it just it it spurs me on to be like no I gotta I gotta pray more like and and not just you know like I I I pray in every single one of my my classes at school you know like every single that's how we start every single class I ask for prayer requests we pray um but there's also an aspect of like I needed my own prayer life like my own crying out to God on my own um and that really does make a difference in my life and in the world around us.
00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:09.039
Yeah yeah yeah it's something I've just been thinking a lot about I think we're we're at a church that um that really values prayer with a senior pastor that really values prayer um both on stage and offstage.
00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:12.559
I mean the the our our senior pastor is Cliffly and he loves to pray.
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:15.519
Yeah um genuinely authentically loves to pray.
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:26.640
Yeah I was I was sorry to interrupt but I was I was literally having a conversation with him the other day at camp at youth camp and um he stopped in the middle of the conversation and prayed yeah about what we were talking about.
00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:44.640
Yeah and that's not that's not for show he just that's just who he is like he'll just stop in the middle of a meeting and pray or stop in the hallway or pray or stop on the phone and pray and uh he just loves to pray and um it it's so funny like I don't want to make this all about Cliff but it's a positive conversation so who cares?
00:33:44.880 --> 00:34:03.200
Um you know some people uh in church leadership see prayer as like a a growth strategy but our pastor just prays with no agenda right and the Lord's blessing it but like he he's not praying with an agenda he's just praying and it's it's amazing.
00:34:03.359 --> 00:35:26.480
So it's challenged me a lot in my in my prayer life um and I've just been thinking not about uh the command to pray or some of the templates uh on how to pray or what to pray for when to pray where to pray all those things but kind of the this the question one step before all those things of like what why what's what's the point how does it all work yeah and some of it's a mystery for sure but um that's been on my mind recently not only in my own life but also as I uh teach and encourage others to to pray as well so um something that's been on my mind yeah uh last topic what you got um so this one I think we've we've kind of touched on this before like in um like in some aspects of it but like how should we engage in entertainment as Christians in general so we've talked about sports we've talked about social media but like what um like is there a line or is there an element like you know how much entertainment should we engage in um and is there entertainment that is not appropriate for a Christian I mean the answer to that second question is yes there's there's plenty of entertainment that's not appropriate for a Christian um but there there is also entertainment that is appropriate for a Christian.
00:35:26.719 --> 00:36:45.920
Um I think I would appoint this isn't necessarily pointing to the scriptures although John Piper himself points to the scriptures but I think of of Piper's uh phrase that he coined about Christian hedonism and how uh it's it's okay i this is an oversimplification but it's okay for Christians to be happy it's okay for Christians to enjoy things in life and to uh to be entertained by things and to seek entertainment um and so I think there is certainly a a level of entertainment that is or certain types of entertainment that's inappropriate for Christians um but there are also certain types of entertainment that uh that are appropriate for Christians and um and uh display uh God's beauty and uh show how God is uh an incredible creator who um created human beings with uh agency to create things ourselves um not in the same way that God created things ex nihilo out of nothing but y you know what I'm saying to uh create art that points us to uh the creator um and I think Christians uh create good art but also uh non-Christians can create good art so here here's a we've talked about this before um maybe this isn't really I actually I think it is what you're looking for.
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:49.599
So the um the good beautiful matrix do you remember this?
00:36:49.920 --> 00:38:38.960
Yeah so um um well we we may actually because you I'll let you respond in a minute um so uh gosh it's hard to uh it's really easy to look at um but I'll try to explain it so on the X axis um you have good and bad and on the Y axis you have beautiful and ugly and I think the the most helpful thing about the the good beautiful matrix is that um beauty and goodness are not synonymous so something can be good and ugly or something can be bad and beautiful and so there are uh we'll just take certain uh rap songs for instance that that seems to be an easy place to go there are rap songs that are really good like very well done yeah but they're ugly super super ugly at the same time there are some there's some contemporary Christian songs that are very beautiful in their content but they're bad just really bad yeah and so uh kind of the the area we should seek to live in in terms of our entertainment is entertainment that is both uh good in its delivery but also beautiful in its content and so I I think w without it is the practical matters podcast but without getting overly practical just some principles for entertainment try to live in that quadrant one that good beautiful quadrant uh as you seek entertainment so um those are my thoughts are there is there entertainment that's inappropriate for Christians yes but is there entertainment that is appropriate yes seek entertainment that is both good and beautiful so yeah and I think I mean I I asked like how much entertainment to you but I think I mean that's that's obviously I think the practical aspect of that is like it it can't be something that takes the place of God in our lives.
00:38:39.119 --> 00:39:23.119
We're not worshiping entertainment we're worshiping the creator and so um we can't our entire lives cannot be just entertainment like entertain me entertain me entertain me that's you know that obviously there's a place for it um and I think the the helpful way I to also to think about the beautiful ugly thing is like um because I think we have to equate beautiful with godly and ugly with not godly correct um and I think that that's an important step to that that's something you have to understand on that um on that that uh that axis or that on that that grid is that beautiful represents of God and ugly represents not of God.
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:23.840
Yes.
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:30.880
Um but I yeah I I think that is that is a very helpful helpful way of thinking about it.
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:37.039
Unfortunately a lot of Christian entertainment does end up in the beautiful bad quadrant.
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:54.159
It does yeah unfortunately but God bless him for trying yeah we we need more Christians in the arts I mean more Christian musicians and film directors and writers and um people to create content that's not just beautiful but is also good.
00:39:54.320 --> 00:40:01.679
So I think we've made progress um but yeah a lot of the Christian content has been beautiful and bad.
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:03.039
Yeah.
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:21.280
So where does so like I I think of this mostly in terms of both uh the kind of the most common entertainment um which is music and television say television you know although people don't really watch TV they watch some sort of streaming service right on their TV but um but like I still watch TV because I watch horse racing.
00:40:21.519 --> 00:41:17.519
But um but yeah and sports you know like a lot of sports or you know whatever but um but like those are some of the most common I think if we're honest about most things that we listen to secular music um secular TV it some of it a lot of it probably does fall into the the bad ugly or bad good uh or yeah or or good and ugly ugly good yeah I don't I'm getting them mixed up but it's okay um uh yeah I mean I so like for instance I um I I I enjoy country music I was thinking I was literally just thinking of country music yeah quite a bit um same but there is a lot of country music that is uh both good and beautiful even though the the artists are not Christians but at the same time you quickly get to that next song that is good and ugly.
00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:19.360
That is that's glorifying the bar.
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:34.079
Correct yeah and so it's there's a that's a you you kind of walk the line I suppose in that genre of music but is that Johnny Cash reference a little bit um so like I I I enjoy country music quite a bit.
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:42.960
It's kind of funny there's um on uh XM radio or maybe it's on tune in who knows I just tell Echo to play it um there's a Christian country station.
00:41:43.119 --> 00:42:13.360
Have you listened to this no and it's it's not necessarily like uh Christian music sung with a country accent like it's not weird like that but it's a station that is uh country music curated for Christians like hey this is this is a country song that's uh is maybe not by a Christian artist although a lot of them are but is um it's a uh a song that is both good and beautiful in its content um and so that that's I don't always listen to that station.
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:16.159
Uh my dad does um that's where I learned about it.
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:33.840
But um that station to me just points to the principle that like even in uh a field like music and in a genre like country music that you can find uh good and and beautiful content so um yeah I I actually think it's more likely in country music than probably any other genre.
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:34.639
Yes.
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:41.119
And not just because I'm biased in like country music but I think that that's just kind of the nature of country music.
00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:45.679
But that's kind of that's a great idea like to for it to be curated that way.
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:48.320
That'd be probably a really good use of AI.
00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:49.199
Yeah.
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:52.320
Yeah I don't know if it's yeah at this point it it's probably AI curated.
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:53.840
I don't know if it's manually curated.
00:42:53.920 --> 00:43:02.320
It probably was in its origination but um yeah so some of the songs in there are you know get into the the bad beautiful category.
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:04.880
I'm like well this is a country song I don't really enjoy.
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:10.480
But you know a lot of it is good beautiful country music.
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:32.239
So um so yeah anyways I I think it's I think it's possible to uh engage in entertainment um as a Christian uh if you're thinking about it rightly so how how much ugly beautiful no those two things are the same ugly good um what should a Christian engage in?
00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:49.119
Um how much yeah like how much MM should I listen to um probably none um but I'd be lying if I said I've never listened to MM in my lifetime.
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:50.079
You know what I'm saying?
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:50.400
Yeah.
00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:55.039
Um especially when I was playing sports um playing playing basketball.
00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:58.639
That's a b a big a lot a lot of rap culture there.
00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:02.400
Um So I I I don't know.
00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:04.480
Um because it's really good.
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:04.960
Yeah.
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:05.840
But it's also really ugly.
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:07.360
It's really ugly.
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:08.639
And it really is ugly.
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:10.480
Um but it's very, very good.
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:12.400
So what do you think?
00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:14.400
Answering your own question.
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:23.440
I don't know, because there like there is an aspect of I mean it's because the that him and some other artists out there.
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:26.800
Um I mean my favorite rip rapper is Trick Daddy.
00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:30.559
He's you know from Miami and But anyways, most people have never heard of it.
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:31.519
Is it not Le Cray?
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:33.039
No, no.
00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:35.199
I think in the Christian world it'd be NF.
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:39.119
Uh yeah, he when he's he's uh he's the Christian MM, so to speak.
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:39.599
Right.
00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:40.000
Yeah.
00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:46.239
But um and there's some other good ones like um KB and like uh I mean there's there's lots of good Christian rappers.
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:49.360
That's that's one of the up-and-coming Christian genres is Christian rap.
00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:56.639
It is that one is really really blossomed, and it's it's cool to see that there's some really good music.
00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:04.079
Um but uh yeah, I I don't know.
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:32.000
I mean I there I'd be lying if I said that I don't every now and then listen to you know some sort of ugly, good songs um or even watch it on TV, you know, like um because it is entertaining and there's an aspect of like you know, there's certain things I'm if there's certain there's certain things if it's in the song or if it's in the show, I'm just not going to, you know, like I'm I'm not I'm not interested in watching a show that has a bunch of nudity or you know something like that.
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:48.559
Um but there's also an aspect of me like if it's if it's swearing that maybe I can get past maybe I can't, you know, maybe I can't get past it, maybe I can get past it, you know, like it's it's one of those things like how much, how far away do you stay, how far away do you stand, you know?
00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:51.039
Um so I don't know.
00:45:51.119 --> 00:46:06.639
I think that's I think that's a uh I go back a lot of times to that food offer diet, you know, the sacrifice to idols, you know, like where if I that that principle, not that thing, but that principle.
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:16.159
And it's I don't know, it's kind of a it's kind of a challenge because some of that stuff is beautiful, um, but it is or not beautiful, is is good, but it is ugly.
00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:16.559
Yeah.
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:34.639
And and I but I also know that if I, you know, the the closer you get to that to the zero-zero axis, you know, the zero of the axis, uh the closer you get to that, I think the far the harder it is to really stay in um in a close relationship with God, you know what I'm saying?
00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:36.159
Like I think it causes drift.
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:58.480
I think that when we are listening to music and watching shows and participating in entertainment that is drawing us closer and closer to the zero and on average, or um, which can happen really quickly in that bad, in that, um, in that ugly category, uh, I think that it really just starts to hamper things like our prayer life and like our um our our uh just our focus on who God is.
00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:07.360
I find that even if I listen to too much country music, sure, um that even if I'm listening to the good stuff, you know, I I listen to Pandora because I can just thumbs down stuff and I don't have to listen to it anymore.
00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:10.159
And it that way I curate my own station or whatever.
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:22.480
But um I find that if I listen, if I'm exclusively listening to that, that it actually has a um has a uh a draw away from God, even though it's not necessarily ugly.
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:22.960
Yeah.
00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:32.320
And so um I think we do have to be super careful about getting close to that, even close to that zero axis, you know, the zero on the axis.
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:39.119
Um, we we've narrowed from just entertainment to music, but I I think uh music really shapes the way you think.
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:40.000
Oh, absolutely.
00:47:40.239 --> 00:47:43.119
Some people don't well I think absolutely, but not everybody does.
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:51.840
Like some people think you know music is uh it has no influence on how you on how you think, on how you feel, uh on how you live.
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:55.119
It seems just obvious to to me.
00:47:55.280 --> 00:48:05.519
Um it's also scriptural, uh the idea that you know God created music, God commands us to sing together because it influences our thinking and our feelings and our our community culture.
00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:08.000
Um but music is the longest book in the Bible.
00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:09.119
Yeah, is the psalms.
00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:11.280
Yeah, we're we're in it right now on Sunday mornings.
00:48:11.519 --> 00:48:17.360
But uh but it's uh music really shapes the way that you think and and so I I completely agree.
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:24.400
Like um you know, I I love uh I love the the band House Fires is a uh worship.
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:34.559
We're we're talking specifically about um worship music now, and um I love listening to them and when I listen to them for a long time I I feel like it changes my mood.
00:48:34.719 --> 00:48:37.760
I mean it's a very subjective thing, but like I can sense it.
00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:40.719
Oh, I think it happens with everybody, I just don't think everybody realizes it.
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:41.280
Yeah.
00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:41.840
Yeah.
00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:45.840
So uh yeah, I I I think there's a I don't want to be Amish.
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:52.159
I think there's a level of entertainment that's appropriate, and um, you know, I'd I'd certainly engage in a lot of entertainment.
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:55.760
So well this has been very entertaining.
00:48:56.079 --> 00:48:56.960
Get out of here.
00:48:58.559 --> 00:48:59.760
You know, hot take?
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:00.320
I do.
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:06.480
We talked we were talking about it before we started recording, and uh it's not really a hot take, I guess.
00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:07.599
It's just a personal preference.
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:12.480
I don't like musicals, so um, but kind of back to the entertainment question.
00:49:12.639 --> 00:49:17.360
Um, I think musicals are really beautiful uh and good most mostly.
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:19.199
I I guess I couldn't say that about all of them.
00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:22.159
Like I can appreciate musicals, but I can't watch them.
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:23.440
I just don't like them.
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:26.639
So I like music and I like movies, but I don't like musicals.
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:28.000
So uh there you go.
00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:29.360
Oh bro, I love musicals.
00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:29.760
Yeah, I know.
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:31.519
I listen I listen to the soundtracks.
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:32.159
Ugh.
00:49:33.519 --> 00:49:38.400
Um well uh my hot take is that all dreams are bad.
00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:43.039
There's some people talk about bad dreams and good dreams, they're all bad.
00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:46.400
If I wake up from a good dream and it's not real, that's bad.
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:50.159
If I wake up from a bad dream, I'm terrified, that's bad.
00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:51.360
All dreams are bad.
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:55.920
I just told Hannah last night, I was like, I don't remember the last time I remembered a dream.
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:58.960
I used to remember dreams all the time, but not anymore.
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:00.639
If I could just never dream it.
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:03.280
The only time I ever want to dream is if God's gonna talk to me.
00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:04.960
Other than that, I don't want to dream.
00:50:05.199 --> 00:50:06.480
There's a topic for another time.
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:06.960
Yeah.
00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:09.360
I have thoughts on that, but this is hot take time.
00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:10.639
Yep, yep.
00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:11.360
All right.
00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:19.119
Well, this has been the Practical Matters podcast because we believe that making theology practical matters.
00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:20.480
See you the next time.
00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:21.679
See you later.
00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:14.080
Greetings and welcome to the Practical Matters Podcast, where we believe that making theology practical matters.
00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:15.759
I'm Kevin Saxton.
00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:17.359
This is Garrett Haywood.
00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:19.600
And this is episode 005.
00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:20.960
Double O five.
00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:23.440
That means in a couple weeks we'll get to 007.
00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:24.239
That's right.
00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:25.839
Whatever that means.
00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:27.679
Not really into fantasy.
00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:28.960
That's not really fantasy.
00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:33.759
Anyways, um, what uh Garrett, what have you, what are you working on this week?
00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:38.880
This week, um it is uh promotion Sunday at church.
00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:55.039
So uh as we're recording this on August the 4th, uh this coming Sunday, August the 9th, is promotion Sunday at church for our age-graded ministries, and so uh we're making a big deal out of that um for our for our kids uh kids' ministry.
00:00:55.200 --> 00:01:03.840
Um also working on I mentioned a couple weeks ago, working on starting some new uh connect groups and some new home groups uh at our campus.
00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:07.439
And then uh I'm working on a a sermon on Psalm 103.
00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:08.959
I started working on that yesterday.
00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:17.439
Uh Pastor Cliff was at our campus yesterday, preached live and in person, and I'm excited to be back in the pulpit um this coming Sunday.
00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:20.640
So uh a lot of plates spinning uh for me.
00:01:20.719 --> 00:01:22.799
So uh but today's a big day for you.
00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:24.000
What are you working on?
00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:29.359
Yeah, today is uh today's back to back to work for the staff at First Academy here.
00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:35.680
So I'm back at school today, getting ready for students to start one week from today.
00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:37.359
So that's pretty exciting.
00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:40.480
I I enjoy it better when the students are actually here.
00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:45.519
So we'll get through this week and then we'll have students and it'll be fun.
00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:46.799
Looking forward to it.
00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:47.280
Awesome.
00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:50.560
That you guys start uh the students are here Thursday?
00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:51.519
No, no, Tuesday.
00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:58.879
Well, we have back we have Meet the Teacher on Thursday, okay, and then uh the students are back on um did I say Thursday?
00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:00.159
Because Meet the Teacher's on Thursday.
00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:01.840
Yeah, and then students are back on Tuesday.
00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:03.359
They're back on Tuesday, okay, okay.
00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:03.760
All right.
00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:05.040
Four-day work week to start.
00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:07.519
Well, I mean, we'll be here Monday, but it's a four-day school week.
00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:08.400
Yeah, gotcha.
00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:09.120
Okay.
00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:10.319
Awesome.
00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:12.400
So that's what's going on.
00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.280
Um, all seven of the kiddos getting ready to come back.
00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:18.319
Last time that we'll have seven students starting school.
00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:21.680
It is since I have a senior for the first time.
00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:23.919
So it's wild.
00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:24.479
Yeah.
00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:27.280
And it's just milestone after milestone, you know.
00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:30.240
I'll have five in uh middle school and high school.
00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:32.159
So first time I've ever had that.
00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:32.560
Yeah.
00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:34.800
And it will not be your only time, will it?
00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:35.360
No, no.
00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:42.000
Uh no, there'll be a time where I think the youngest five will all be in middle school and high school together.
00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:42.319
Okay.
00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:44.240
I believe is how it works.
00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:44.800
Yeah.
00:02:45.039 --> 00:02:45.599
I don't know.
00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:46.400
Something like that.
00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:47.520
A lot to keep up with.
00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:49.120
Just take it one year at a time.
00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:49.680
Yep.
00:02:50.479 --> 00:03:00.080
Well, uh, the format that we have chosen is that we uh each bring two questions that we haven't talked about with each other and we ask those questions to each other.
00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:02.319
So uh do you want to go first?
00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:03.199
Sure.
00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:15.759
Um so question number one uh for me, I'd like to talk about the topic of discipleship, which is uh intentionally broad, but I'll give you a second to think about it, set it up a little bit.
00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:32.240
So um I'm part of this like monthly uh coaching group, and they were asking some good questions about discipleship recently that are very simple questions, but I think helpful to think about, uh, not only for pastors, but for the everyday Christian.
00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:36.479
And so they were questions like this uh what is discipleship?
00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:38.879
Um, how do you make a disciple?
00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:41.840
So do you meet with the person?
00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:43.360
Do you just hang out with them?
00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:44.240
Do you teach them something?
00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:45.360
What do you teach them?
00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:47.120
Uh, and then how long does it take?
00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:48.560
Like when when are you done?
00:03:48.719 --> 00:04:01.520
And so uh I thought I thought those were very simple but thought-provoking questions, not only for Christian leaders, but also for the everyday Christian who's seeking to uh become a better disciple, but also become a multiplier and make disciples of their own.
00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:04.000
So um that's enough preamble.
00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:05.439
What is discipleship?
00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:11.280
Yeah, so um obviously the uh something we're supposed to be doing, right?
00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:13.360
Otherwise we wouldn't really even be thinking about it.
00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:24.240
But Jesus said, Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teach him um all the things I've commanded you, and lo, I'm with you always, even to the end of the age.
00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:27.439
So we are supposed to be making disciples, obviously.
00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:55.279
Um I think I think that the discipleship process is part of the sanctification process, you know, where so we have justification where we are saved, you know, and just as if I'd never sinned, you know, some people remember it that way, I'm justified, but um but we um we have the j we're justified when we are saved, and we're sanctified throughout our lives as God um just reveals sin in our lives and makes us into the people that He has called us to be.
00:04:55.920 --> 00:05:02.319
So that process is never done until we are face to face with Jesus, either in death or his return.
00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:03.920
Come quickly, Lord Jesus.
00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:12.319
But um, I think the discipleship process is part of that overall process of sanctification.
00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:14.160
So I don't think we're ever actually done.
00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:17.120
Okay, I think we're always becoming disciples.
00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:33.600
And I think um, I think that the goal of our discipleship ought to be to get um one another to be at the point where we are um doing a lot of self-growth, you know, like where we're seeking out the discipleship as opposed to just being disciples.
00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:38.480
You know, if someone comes a believer in Jesus, we may not, they may not even know what they don't know.
00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:43.120
You know, they don't they don't even know what processes, what what do we what do I need to do?
00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:48.720
And so you need somebody to to be or be a discipler in your life.
00:05:48.959 --> 00:06:06.399
Um but the goal of that discipleship ought to be to get somebody to the point where they are let's say self-feeder, you know, like somebody who reads the word on their own, someone who um someone who's seeking out um godly advice, someone who's seeking out um instruction and you know, those types of things.
00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:11.839
So I think that ought to be kind of what we're aiming towards, but I also don't think the process is ever over.
00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:22.800
Um I think that one of the best ways that you can um that we should, or one of the main things we should be discipling people towards is to disciple others themselves.
00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:28.000
Because I think that when you're discipling somebody, it has a sense of accountability even in your own life.
00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:28.240
Yeah.
00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:53.040
So if I were discipling, you know, uh a young man, like there's an element of they're also helping to in my discipleship, you know, like my followership of Jesus, because discipleship is really just an is is uh is followership essentially um of Jesus and not, you know, we're not making disciples of ourselves, we're making disciples of Jesus, followers of Jesus.
00:06:53.360 --> 00:07:00.399
So um, but I think the practical aspect of it, like how do you do it, like I I think is wide open.
00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:10.879
You know, I don't I think that when Jesus said, Go therefore make disciples, he didn't say and take them through a 12-week Bible study or you know, have them read all the way through the entire Bible, or I mean, I think that's a great thing to do.
00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:16.399
I think all those things are great things to do, but I Jesus didn't say this is exactly how you do it.
00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:26.720
And so I think we have to look at the lives of Jesus, we have to look at the life of Paul, we have to look at the life of John, like in the people that were discipling people in the early church.
00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:28.240
Um, and what were they doing?
00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:30.879
Like, Paul's writing letters, John's writing some letters.
00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:37.759
I mean, John was you know also like really in obviously they were engaged in in the the life of the church, so Paul's starting churches.
00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:55.360
Um, we see some of the discipleship in the way that he's discipling um Timothy and Titus, and so um so I think we could see a lot of that there, but I don't think that there's like I think we have to use godly wisdom to be like, what do I need to do?
00:07:55.439 --> 00:07:56.720
Like, what does this person need?
00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:05.279
And sometimes it is like they just need to be around, you know, like they they've not been around Christians, so maybe the best thing for them is that we just spend a lot of time together.
00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:09.360
Um, you know, Paul said in in 1 Corinthians, imitate me as I'm imitate Christ.
00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:15.519
And so maybe we need to, maybe we need to help them to do exactly that.
00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:22.959
Like, how how how can I get you to live more like me and less like the world, you know, and just sometimes it's just spending time together.
00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:24.560
But I think there's just got to be more than that, too.
00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:32.480
You know, it's just like when we disciple our kids, um, we're looking for everyday moments to be able to have conversations, to be able to teach them something.
00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:36.399
I think it's the same way when we're discipling other people, whether they're older or younger than us.
00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:43.279
You know, we're looking for opportunities to be like, hey, this reminds me of what God said in this passage of scripture, and this is how it applies to this situation.
00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:45.919
You know, so uh I think there is an aspect of just doing life together.
00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.399
I think that um doing something formal is great.
00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:51.519
I think that figuring out ways to have accountability is great.
00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:54.159
Like I think there's just there's a there's a lot that can be done.
00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:59.440
But I think that it um, I mean, just like you leave the question intentionally brought, I think that Jesus left it intentionally brought as well.
00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:03.279
Like there's a lot of ways to do it, and we see Jesus doing it in a lot of ways too.
00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:04.799
That's that's true.
00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:12.879
Um picking up on something you said about how discipling someone else uh helps in your own spiritual growth.
00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:23.120
I think that's really, really important because um sometimes in the church we think about uh serving as a a sidestep from my spiritual growth.
00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:28.799
And I'm gonna serve and I'm gonna pour out until it drains me, and then I'll go back to my own discipleship and my own growth.
00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:47.759
But instead we should think about serving as um uh almost like a next step in your spiritual growth and in your own discipleship because uh Mark 10, 45, you know, Jesus came to serve, not to be served, as you always say, you're never more like Jesus than when you're serving, and so when you're discipling someone else, um that's one of the best ways to grow yourself.
00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:59.279
Um last I suppose last uh comment and question, uh I recently heard a podcast with Robbie Gallaty, uh a familiar name to many, most likely.
00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:04.960
He said that when he got to his current church, uh the discipleship ministry had 1,500 people in it.
00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:08.159
So a larger church, uh discipleship ministry had 1,500 people in it.
00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:20.080
He said he audited the discipleship ministry and found out that a lot of it was, you know, a group of guys hanging out on Sunday afternoon for three hours watching a football game and calling it discipleship.
00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:29.279
And so in his words, he grew the discipleship ministry from 1,500 people to 600 people in in its first year and kind of reformatted what what it looks like.
00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:33.120
Because watching a football game is there's nothing wrong with that, I I don't think.
00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:41.600
Um, but you just can't you can't call that discipleship because Jesus didn't say go therefore and make disciples by baptizing them and hanging out together.
00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:44.879
Go therefore and make disciples by baptizing them and teaching them.
00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:45.200
True.
00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:47.679
So you gotta there has to be a teaching element to it.
00:10:47.919 --> 00:11:00.960
So it is wide open, but as it's wide open, as as if you've discipled your kids or as you've discipled students or other adults, what are some uh what are some practical texts that you would point people to?
00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:11.120
And it might just be the book of John or this book or that book, but like if if someone's looking to disciple someone else for the first time, what are some pieces of material you would point them to?
00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:27.759
Um I think I think it you know, you there's um we used a resource for a short time at our prior church where we you know we used like the seven stories of seven stories of hope or something like that.
00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:30.399
Um I found that to be incredibly helpful.
00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:50.240
And what it is is you know it goes through seven different um interactions in um in the gospels where Jesus is interacting with somebody or telling a parable or whatever it is, and um and the strategy was like you read the story in the scriptures, have them summarize the story in the scripture, or read the story of the scripture as a summary.
00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:53.840
I forget exactly how the pattern works, but some of those stories are incredibly helpful.
00:11:53.919 --> 00:12:09.440
And that's what I think back to when I think about like how are we supposed to disciple people, like think about like Jesus and the woman at the well, and Jesus and Nicodemus, and you know, like these interactions that Jesus had, Jesus and Peter, you know, like obviously we're not Jesus, but we see how Jesus discipled.
00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:21.360
Um so I think sometimes pointing to those kind of stories, but I mean one of the one of the best examples, I mean some of the best examples of discipleship is the letters to the churches, because that's exactly what Paul is doing.
00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:25.679
Paul is teaching them in those letters, and that's a treasure that we have.
00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:41.840
Um, and I think if I was if I were going to point someone to any of those in particular, it would be like the pastoral epistles, we typically call them of um of 1 2 Timothy and Titus, because that's what Paul's doing.
00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:46.240
Like he's literally like instructing and teaching another individual.
00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.240
You know, those letters are written to it's kind of funny because a lot of times we're like, who wrote the book of Mark?
00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:51.759
Mark, who wrote the book of Timothy?
00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:54.559
But you get to 1 2 Timothy, he's like, Who wrote the book of 1 2 Timothy?
00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:55.039
Timothy.
00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:57.600
Nope, it was Paul to Timothy.
00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:04.159
Um, but um, but I think that those are really helpful texts.
00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:23.600
I but I I just I'm I'm a big fan of like Jesus' interactions with people because you see so much about like different evangelistic methods that you can see in Jesus, you know, different um, I mean, I don't know, I just the way that Jesus hung out with sinners, but he was still teaching, you know, like there's just so many things in the words of Jesus.
00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:27.120
So I mean, it would be difficult for me to say, well, here's one thing.
00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:33.519
I think it would be I think the book of John is a great place to go uh because a lot of those stories are in that book.
00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:40.639
Um, but I think depending on the maturity of the person asking me, I would it would be probably the book of John or the pastoral epistles.
00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:49.120
I like the pastoral epistles because like uh Corinthians, first and second Corinthians, it's written to the church or the churches in Corinth.
00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:56.000
Um but you're right that Timothy and Titus are written to individuals that Paul is discipling.
00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:57.519
I um I like that.
00:13:57.679 --> 00:13:59.440
That's that's a good good place to start.
00:13:59.919 --> 00:14:01.840
Um so is Philemon.
00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:03.120
That's also true.
00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:04.000
A little different.
00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:06.480
It's just something I'm thinking about.
00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:12.159
Uh very basic questions, but um, I think helpful things to think about and rethink about often.
00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:16.799
So you know, uh not to stay here too long, but the book of James is another one.
00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:17.360
Yeah.
00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:20.320
Um that's such a practical, practical book.
00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:23.440
Speaking of practical matters, yeah, James.
00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:24.000
Practical.
00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:25.200
Yeah.
00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:26.799
It's so practical.
00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:30.000
Um, in fact, if you haven't read James in a while, go read James.
00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:38.399
Um, so I have trying to think of which one.
00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:43.279
I won I was there was one thing that you said that I was gonna piggyback off of as one of my topics, but we'll stick with my first one.
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:47.120
All right, so um, how do we make decisions?
00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:52.480
Like, how do how as a Christian do I make decisions?
00:14:52.559 --> 00:15:02.000
And is the process the same for like me deciding what I'm going to do for breakfast this morning and whether or not I'm gonna move my family a thousand miles away?
00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:04.480
How do we make decisions?
00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:10.080
So um I think that's a I think that's a really good question.
00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:20.559
Um so I I so to to point things back to scripture, um I would point us to uh Psalm 37, four.
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.799
If you delight in the Lord, uh then he will give you the desires of your heart.
00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:31.600
And so I would say when it comes to decision making, uh the Lord ultimately wants you to do what you want.
00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:48.480
And that sounds uh very trite at face value, because uh God is not a cosmic Santa Claus that if you delight in him, he's gonna give you all the desires of your heart, but if you delight in him, he's going to change the desires of your heart so that you have within you righteous desires to act upon.
00:15:49.039 --> 00:16:02.720
And so I would say that Christians who are walking with the Lord and delighting in the Lord should uh make decisions based on what they want to do, because ultimately the sovereign God of the universe is placing those desires within them.
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:08.399
But now, how do you know if a desire within you is a righteous desire worth acting upon?
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:09.279
That's the question.
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:30.080
Um and so you know, a filter that uh is not new to you, but uh is is very helpful, is um you know, the the five steps of uh check the scriptures, um pray about it, seek wise counsel, uh look for open doors, and then step number five, do what you want.
00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:35.279
And so uh no, you don't you don't necessarily like you use the simple example of what do I have for breakfast.
00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:56.799
Well, let me let me look in the scriptures and see if the Chick-fil-A breakfast burritos in the scriptures, you know, that there are different levels of of decision making, but um I think when it comes to bigger decisions, um which is some somewhat of a subjective term, how you'd find bigger, but when it comes to bigger decisions, check the scriptures, pray about it, uh seek wise counsel, look for open doors, and then do what you want.
00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:03.840
And if if the scriptures do not prohibit what you're looking to do, uh then then move forward to prayer.
00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:11.279
If you have a piece about it in prayer, if you have support from wise counsel, if there are open doors for you to do what you want, then then do what you want.
00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:12.319
Psalm 374.
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:14.000
That's that's how we should make decisions.
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:17.279
Um so that's that's a scripture I'd point to.
00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:21.279
Uh a book I would point to uh by Kevin DeYoung is the book Just Do Something.
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:26.799
Um I think Christians need to make decisions faster and then just learn on the go.
00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:37.920
And so um make a decision and gather some information from the action you took from that decision and then make another decision and then make another one, just just do something.
00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:38.240
Right.
00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:48.160
Um so many Christian non-Christians as well, but so many Christians are just stuck in paralysis by analysis and indecision, and they could learn so much by just doing something.
00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:58.319
And so uh I think that's true not only in leading something like a church uh or a school or or an entity of any kind, but also your personal life and your family.
00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:04.640
Um just just do something and don't be afraid to make a mistake and learn from it and do something else.
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:13.200
And so um, so the answer to your question in my mind is uh number one, do what you want if it's a righteous desire, the Lord placed it there.
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:16.160
And number two, just do it quickly, just just go.
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:17.920
So um I don't know.
00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:24.000
I I uh maybe par partially partially that's my personality as a very decisive person.
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:34.559
Um and so I'm probably on the extreme of that spectrum to toward quick decision making, but um, I think there should be an element of decisiveness in every Christian.
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.599
Um so those are my quick thoughts on decision making.
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:38.720
What do you think about that?
00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:53.519
Yeah, I wonder I wonder where um where we draw the line for what is just a routine decision as opposed to Yeah, because like as opposed to something that's gonna have longer term value.
00:18:53.599 --> 00:19:06.640
So like even if I'm a college student and I'm deciding what classes am I gonna take this school year, um that is seems like a routine decision, but at the same time, the classes that I take, I'm gonna be in them for uh for four months.
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:08.319
Um is that a big decision?
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.640
You know, so like where where do we draw the line?
00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:19.839
And I and I get like I'm I'm actually rereading the uh just do something book, and and I give that to spoiler alert, I give that as a graduation gift to students.
00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:31.359
So um but uh I say that because I know some of them listen, so like if you invite me to your graduation party, you know what you're getting.
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:44.160
But anyways, um uh so the uh um so I so I get the dis like you know, just kind of be decisive thing, which is which is natural for some people and not natural for others, you know.
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:50.559
Like that's you know kind of depends on your personality type, however you, you know, however you believe in those personality types, how they break down or whatever.
00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:57.839
Um but it's uh it's just kind of like where what it what is a big decision, you know, you know what I'm saying?
00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:03.839
Like, where's the line between um what am I having for breakfast and uh what am I doing for the rest of my life?
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:06.960
Although is you never really have to keep doing the same thing for the rest of your life.
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:12.960
But I mean, except that if I get married, you know, on this, how do I decide who this, you know, who I'm gonna marry, you know, kind of thing.
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:16.960
But so like what is the line between you know, where is the that's that's a spectrum, right?
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:20.160
So what do I have for breakfast, who am I gonna marry?
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:23.119
Um, so where is the where's the line?
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:24.799
What makes it a big decision?
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:32.960
Um the example you used about college classes, like I would go back to uh do what you want.
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:40.160
Like I would I would take classes that you're looking forward to, and a part of it is you have to do what you're required to do for a certain degree.
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:51.359
And you know, I've we've all taken classes we weren't looking forward to, but when you have some um liberty, if you will, in that decision, do do the classes that you want to do, take the classes you want to take.
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:58.400
I think there's a lot of um this may not be the exact answer you're looking for, but that I think there's also a lot that we can uh we can pre-decide.
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:02.880
And so like when you're in a situation, you've already made the decision years ago.
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:09.599
And so that goes for uh uh again, we're you use the board big, but that goes for big things and little things.
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:11.519
Uh you brought up the example of marriage.
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:16.000
Well, I mean I've pre-decided that I am faithful to my wife, period, end of story.
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:17.759
Like that's that's not even on the table.
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:22.640
And so whenever an opportunity arises, I've already pre-decided what I'm doing, uh which is nothing.
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:24.160
Like I'm faithful to my wife.
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:29.279
And so like that that decision is already made, even though that's a big decision, it's it was made years ago.
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:36.799
Um but you know, even when it comes to little things, if you're dieting, you know, you you pre-decide I'm not having sweets this week.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:42.000
And so when you walk into the workroom and there's donuts, you don't have a decision to make, it's already made for you.
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:51.279
And so I I I don't think that's quite the answer you're looking for, but there's there's a lot that you can that you can pre decide when it comes to big things.
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:59.759
And so when you encounter them, you're not as prone, uh we're we're still fallen humans, but you're not as prone to uh impulsivity.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.160
or anything like that because you've made up in your mind what you're going to do or not do.
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:09.920
So I I I think still do what you want, do it quickly and pre-decide as much as you can.
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.400
And that'll help you move quickly not necessarily quickly, but move smoothly through life.
00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:15.279
So yeah.
00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:25.359
Well the the predecision thing is yeah that's that's so true and and so important that that when certain circumstances arise that you know how you're going to decide.
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:45.200
And obviously you know like we we we've made big decisions, you know, you and I in various ways obviously so you know I'm not necessarily looking for anything in particular just trying to help I think that's I think it's a very practical practical thing of like man how how do I make decisions?
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:53.039
Where is the line of like when I need to start following the five step outline as opposed to I just feel like this kind of coffee this morning.
00:22:53.359 --> 00:23:06.720
Yeah so you mentioned like both of us have made big decisions like one of the big decisions I made was four years ago um four years and one month ago to move here to Leesburg Florida and join the staff of First Baptist Leesburg.
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:16.480
And um you know there are some things that you know in in a non in a non-charismatic way I felt the Lord speaking to us in in that process of praying through things.
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:20.960
But ultimately like Hannah and I made that decision because we we just wanted to come here.
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:37.119
Like we we had a desire both of us together had a desire to come here and um not necessarily a desire to leave where we were but a a burning desire to come here and we're like well that's we think that's God's sign to to come here is is the desire that He's placed within both of us together.
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:52.079
And so even that was like one of the biggest changes we've made in our lives as a married couple but it was a decision made on not God riding in the clouds or visiting us in a dream but placing a desire within our hearts.
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:57.680
And now we look back on that and see that was that was clearly the the will of the Lord that we would do that.
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:08.880
So um I only bring that up as you said we've we've both made big decisions recently and that's one of the big decisions our family made but it was made on what we wanted to do as we delighted in the Lord.
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:11.279
So anyways.
00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:18.000
I was going to say something and I for Oh um what do you think what do you think about uh pro and con lists?
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:39.519
Um I make pro and con lists often um I think it's helpful to have someone audit your your pro and con lists someone that you trust because sometimes you are thinking of something as a pro that's really a con or thinking of something as a con that's really a pro.
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:46.480
And decisions shouldn't necessarily be made by um you know majority vote.
00:24:46.640 --> 00:25:03.200
Well there's seven pros and three cons, so I guess I'm doing this, you know but I think the most helpful thing I I like pro and con lists but I I like to have someone else look at them because I often misunderstand things or misplace things on those lists.
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:04.880
But yeah I gener generally like them.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:05.200
Yeah.
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:05.519
Yeah.
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:13.039
Yeah do you uh I never really like make a formal pro and con list but I kind of do the same idea in my head.
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:34.079
Because I do think that you know like you said like you could have three pros and seven cons but the pros outweigh the cons because there's so much weight in some of the pros and so much um frivolousness or you know like in the in the cons you know especially for me because I'm like I'm I'm a realist you know I know I think you're an optimist.
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:46.799
I am but I'm a realist and realists tend towards pessimism so uh so sometimes I'll have a con on there that's just because like I'm grumpy you know or whatever.
00:25:47.119 --> 00:26:06.559
So um so they could be they could be I get grumpy too for the record but yes um probably just less often I don't know but uh but I think you know I think that um I think that could be a helpful I I do them in my head I do a lot of things just in my in my head you know so like I'm I'm making the list but it's I'm not necessarily writing it out.
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:14.960
But I don't know it could be a helpful way of making a decision as long as you as long as you understand that some pros outweigh some cons and some cons outweigh some pros.
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:28.720
Yeah that to me is like step three in that five step you know scripture prayer counsel open doors desires step three is sharing with some wise counsel like here are some pros and cons I'm seeing in this decision.
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:29.759
What are you seeing?
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:34.480
That to me is where the the pro-con list comes up so yeah I like them.
00:26:34.799 --> 00:27:00.880
Yeah and the multitude of counselors their safety Solomon said that uh so all right what uh what else do you have today's topic um it's it's related to what we just talked about in a way uh step number two in that process was prayer and I I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on prayer so again I'll let you gather your thoughts a little bit but um basically why should we do it?
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:06.400
So I um I think the scriptures are abundantly clear that we should we're commanded to pray.
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:11.599
Uh the scriptures even give us uh several templates you think about the Lord's prayer in Matthew 6.
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:13.839
So you should do it here's how to do it.
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:30.000
Uh but why bother um neither of us are open theists like some open theists would say that God doesn't know the future or God hasn't made his mind up about certain things and by praying you actually change the mind of God like why neither of us would would believe that.
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:39.359
But believing in a sovereign uh God uh why bother praying what's what's the point thoughts on that?
00:27:39.759 --> 00:28:11.359
Yeah I mean the simple answer is the one you already said I mean first Thessalonians 511 pray without ceasing um so obviously we are supposed to pray um you know for uh Peter says that cast a lot cares on him because he cares for us I think I think the prayer is I think lots of times we we think about prayer because we think okay it's gonna change God and in reality a lot of times what prayer does is it changes us and um and I think that that's part of it.
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.680
I think that's I mean one like prayer is one of the it's how we communicate with God.
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:38.960
If like if I'm gonna have a relationship with God I mean am I just gonna not talk to him um am I not going to you know like the uh Bow says to um present your quest before God I think of the verse that I almost have it like in my head but I but you know like with um prayer and supplications you know submit your quest or something like that to God.
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:42.160
But um Philippians 4, 6 and 7.
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:43.519
That's what I'm thinking is Philippians.
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:51.039
Yeah I just can't articulate it at the moment but um it's too early in the morning not a morning person.
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:53.039
See it's another thing I'm not a morning person.
00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:58.960
But anyways um but so I think I think that it we are supposed to present our request to God.
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:11.839
I think we are supposed to pray I mean I do think that God hears our prayers I do think that um that God acts upon our prayers I I mean um I think you know like sometimes people will be like well God's just waiting to do something he's just waiting for you to pray or whatever.
00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:25.119
Like I I don't know I don't know I mean God's going to do what God's going to do because God is sovereign but I but I do think that we are supposed to um supposed to pray the Bible does say you know in various places that God changed his mind or God relented.
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:34.400
And I think that some of that is just you know like our human way of having to explain something you know like we have to use words that have a meaning and so we'll say God changed his mind.
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:36.640
Did God really change his mind?
00:29:36.799 --> 00:30:25.920
I mean I don't I don't know you know like uh God's the the plan's been written to the at the end from the beginning you know um and I think part of that too is that we're thinking of time and uh as a human you know where God is outside of time and space and so he's not interacting with time in the same way that we are interacting with time or we're we're we're completely bound by time and he is not so um so I think we're you know like a lot of times we misunderstand some of those things because we just don't understand that God is acting outside of time and space but um but God is also interacting directly with time and space so I mean because he's in complete and under control of all that is so I I mean so I think that there are there is an aspect to if I pray that God would heal somebody I mean that God heals that person because I prayed and asked that God would heal that person.
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:42.160
And so um I think that that's absolutely something we're supposed to be doing and that's that's I mean even Jesus did that you know um but I think also you know you think of Jesus in the in the Garden of Gethsemane where he prayed and said if possible take this cut for me but not with your will but mine be done.
00:30:42.319 --> 00:31:01.759
And I think that's an example of God changing you know changing our heart changing you know it's it's Jesus is crying out to the Father and not it's not the father who changed it's Jesus who changed um in his acceptance really he didn't change he was always going to do it but um but like in his acceptance of it.
00:31:01.839 --> 00:31:17.680
I think the same is true of us like when we um when we when we pray to God when we call out to God for things like it changes our perspective on things it changes the way we're thinking about the situation that we're facing um it helps us to to um to rest in the fact that God is in ultimate and utter control and it's not up to us.
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:37.839
So I mean I think um I think that there's so many things happening when we pray that we don't have to completely understand every single aspect of it but man we probably ought to do it because Jesus said to do it God said to do it Jesus said to do it Jesus did it and so um so we absolutely ought to be doing it.
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:48.720
So I I mean you know I'm saying like it's I I you know you could there's obviously books written on on prayer and on the sovereignty of God and on you know how all that works together.
00:31:48.799 --> 00:32:03.599
But I think that we do it because we are commanded to do it because we know that there is a benefit in the world when we are praying and then we know that there's a benefit in our own hearts when we are praying um and we must communicate with our Father.
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:55.440
And so we uh we pray I I find sometimes when um in life you know you sometimes get you know you get in a rut or you get in a routine and you just realize like man I have not been praying like I want to be or like I usually do um and I see the aspects I see the effects in my own life of you know like it causes like a drift you know like um and it just it it spurs me on to be like no I gotta I gotta pray more like and and not just you know like I I I pray in every single one of my my classes at school you know like every single that's how we start every single class I ask for prayer requests we pray um but there's also an aspect of like I needed my own prayer life like my own crying out to God on my own um and that really does make a difference in my life and in the world around us.
00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:09.039
Yeah yeah yeah it's something I've just been thinking a lot about I think we're we're at a church that um that really values prayer with a senior pastor that really values prayer um both on stage and offstage.
00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:12.559
I mean the the our our senior pastor is Cliffly and he loves to pray.
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:15.519
Yeah um genuinely authentically loves to pray.
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:26.640
Yeah I was I was sorry to interrupt but I was I was literally having a conversation with him the other day at camp at youth camp and um he stopped in the middle of the conversation and prayed yeah about what we were talking about.
00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:44.640
Yeah and that's not that's not for show he just that's just who he is like he'll just stop in the middle of a meeting and pray or stop in the hallway or pray or stop on the phone and pray and uh he just loves to pray and um it it's so funny like I don't want to make this all about Cliff but it's a positive conversation so who cares?
00:33:44.880 --> 00:34:03.200
Um you know some people uh in church leadership see prayer as like a a growth strategy but our pastor just prays with no agenda right and the Lord's blessing it but like he he's not praying with an agenda he's just praying and it's it's amazing.
00:34:03.359 --> 00:35:26.480
So it's challenged me a lot in my in my prayer life um and I've just been thinking not about uh the command to pray or some of the templates uh on how to pray or what to pray for when to pray where to pray all those things but kind of the this the question one step before all those things of like what why what's what's the point how does it all work yeah and some of it's a mystery for sure but um that's been on my mind recently not only in my own life but also as I uh teach and encourage others to to pray as well so um something that's been on my mind yeah uh last topic what you got um so this one I think we've we've kind of touched on this before like in um like in some aspects of it but like how should we engage in entertainment as Christians in general so we've talked about sports we've talked about social media but like what um like is there a line or is there an element like you know how much entertainment should we engage in um and is there entertainment that is not appropriate for a Christian I mean the answer to that second question is yes there's there's plenty of entertainment that's not appropriate for a Christian um but there there is also entertainment that is appropriate for a Christian.
00:35:26.719 --> 00:36:45.920
Um I think I would appoint this isn't necessarily pointing to the scriptures although John Piper himself points to the scriptures but I think of of Piper's uh phrase that he coined about Christian hedonism and how uh it's it's okay i this is an oversimplification but it's okay for Christians to be happy it's okay for Christians to enjoy things in life and to uh to be entertained by things and to seek entertainment um and so I think there is certainly a a level of entertainment that is or certain types of entertainment that's inappropriate for Christians um but there are also certain types of entertainment that uh that are appropriate for Christians and um and uh display uh God's beauty and uh show how God is uh an incredible creator who um created human beings with uh agency to create things ourselves um not in the same way that God created things ex nihilo out of nothing but y you know what I'm saying to uh create art that points us to uh the creator um and I think Christians uh create good art but also uh non-Christians can create good art so here here's a we've talked about this before um maybe this isn't really I actually I think it is what you're looking for.
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:49.599
So the um the good beautiful matrix do you remember this?
00:36:49.920 --> 00:38:38.960
Yeah so um um well we we may actually because you I'll let you respond in a minute um so uh gosh it's hard to uh it's really easy to look at um but I'll try to explain it so on the X axis um you have good and bad and on the Y axis you have beautiful and ugly and I think the the most helpful thing about the the good beautiful matrix is that um beauty and goodness are not synonymous so something can be good and ugly or something can be bad and beautiful and so there are uh we'll just take certain uh rap songs for instance that that seems to be an easy place to go there are rap songs that are really good like very well done yeah but they're ugly super super ugly at the same time there are some there's some contemporary Christian songs that are very beautiful in their content but they're bad just really bad yeah and so uh kind of the the area we should seek to live in in terms of our entertainment is entertainment that is both uh good in its delivery but also beautiful in its content and so I I think w without it is the practical matters podcast but without getting overly practical just some principles for entertainment try to live in that quadrant one that good beautiful quadrant uh as you seek entertainment so um those are my thoughts are there is there entertainment that's inappropriate for Christians yes but is there entertainment that is appropriate yes seek entertainment that is both good and beautiful so yeah and I think I mean I I asked like how much entertainment to you but I think I mean that's that's obviously I think the practical aspect of that is like it it can't be something that takes the place of God in our lives.
00:38:39.119 --> 00:39:23.119
We're not worshiping entertainment we're worshiping the creator and so um we can't our entire lives cannot be just entertainment like entertain me entertain me entertain me that's you know that obviously there's a place for it um and I think the the helpful way I to also to think about the beautiful ugly thing is like um because I think we have to equate beautiful with godly and ugly with not godly correct um and I think that that's an important step to that that's something you have to understand on that um on that that uh that axis or that on that that grid is that beautiful represents of God and ugly represents not of God.
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:23.840
Yes.
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:30.880
Um but I yeah I I think that is that is a very helpful helpful way of thinking about it.
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:37.039
Unfortunately a lot of Christian entertainment does end up in the beautiful bad quadrant.
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:54.159
It does yeah unfortunately but God bless him for trying yeah we we need more Christians in the arts I mean more Christian musicians and film directors and writers and um people to create content that's not just beautiful but is also good.
00:39:54.320 --> 00:40:01.679
So I think we've made progress um but yeah a lot of the Christian content has been beautiful and bad.
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:03.039
Yeah.
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:21.280
So where does so like I I think of this mostly in terms of both uh the kind of the most common entertainment um which is music and television say television you know although people don't really watch TV they watch some sort of streaming service right on their TV but um but like I still watch TV because I watch horse racing.
00:40:21.519 --> 00:41:17.519
But um but yeah and sports you know like a lot of sports or you know whatever but um but like those are some of the most common I think if we're honest about most things that we listen to secular music um secular TV it some of it a lot of it probably does fall into the the bad ugly or bad good uh or yeah or or good and ugly ugly good yeah I don't I'm getting them mixed up but it's okay um uh yeah I mean I so like for instance I um I I I enjoy country music I was thinking I was literally just thinking of country music yeah quite a bit um same but there is a lot of country music that is uh both good and beautiful even though the the artists are not Christians but at the same time you quickly get to that next song that is good and ugly.
00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:19.360
That is that's glorifying the bar.
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:34.079
Correct yeah and so it's there's a that's a you you kind of walk the line I suppose in that genre of music but is that Johnny Cash reference a little bit um so like I I I enjoy country music quite a bit.
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:42.960
It's kind of funny there's um on uh XM radio or maybe it's on tune in who knows I just tell Echo to play it um there's a Christian country station.
00:41:43.119 --> 00:42:13.360
Have you listened to this no and it's it's not necessarily like uh Christian music sung with a country accent like it's not weird like that but it's a station that is uh country music curated for Christians like hey this is this is a country song that's uh is maybe not by a Christian artist although a lot of them are but is um it's a uh a song that is both good and beautiful in its content um and so that that's I don't always listen to that station.
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:16.159
Uh my dad does um that's where I learned about it.
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:33.840
But um that station to me just points to the principle that like even in uh a field like music and in a genre like country music that you can find uh good and and beautiful content so um yeah I I actually think it's more likely in country music than probably any other genre.
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:34.639
Yes.
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:41.119
And not just because I'm biased in like country music but I think that that's just kind of the nature of country music.
00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:45.679
But that's kind of that's a great idea like to for it to be curated that way.
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:48.320
That'd be probably a really good use of AI.
00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:49.199
Yeah.
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:52.320
Yeah I don't know if it's yeah at this point it it's probably AI curated.
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:53.840
I don't know if it's manually curated.
00:42:53.920 --> 00:43:02.320
It probably was in its origination but um yeah so some of the songs in there are you know get into the the bad beautiful category.
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:04.880
I'm like well this is a country song I don't really enjoy.
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:10.480
But you know a lot of it is good beautiful country music.
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:32.239
So um so yeah anyways I I think it's I think it's possible to uh engage in entertainment um as a Christian uh if you're thinking about it rightly so how how much ugly beautiful no those two things are the same ugly good um what should a Christian engage in?
00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:49.119
Um how much yeah like how much MM should I listen to um probably none um but I'd be lying if I said I've never listened to MM in my lifetime.
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:50.079
You know what I'm saying?
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:50.400
Yeah.
00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:55.039
Um especially when I was playing sports um playing playing basketball.
00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:58.639
That's a b a big a lot a lot of rap culture there.
00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:02.400
Um So I I I don't know.
00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:04.480
Um because it's really good.
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:04.960
Yeah.
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:05.840
But it's also really ugly.
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:07.360
It's really ugly.
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:08.639
And it really is ugly.
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:10.480
Um but it's very, very good.
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:12.400
So what do you think?
00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:14.400
Answering your own question.
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:23.440
I don't know, because there like there is an aspect of I mean it's because the that him and some other artists out there.
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:26.800
Um I mean my favorite rip rapper is Trick Daddy.
00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:30.559
He's you know from Miami and But anyways, most people have never heard of it.
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:31.519
Is it not Le Cray?
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:33.039
No, no.
00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:35.199
I think in the Christian world it'd be NF.
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:39.119
Uh yeah, he when he's he's uh he's the Christian MM, so to speak.
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:39.599
Right.
00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:40.000
Yeah.
00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:46.239
But um and there's some other good ones like um KB and like uh I mean there's there's lots of good Christian rappers.
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:49.360
That's that's one of the up-and-coming Christian genres is Christian rap.
00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:56.639
It is that one is really really blossomed, and it's it's cool to see that there's some really good music.
00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:04.079
Um but uh yeah, I I don't know.
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:32.000
I mean I there I'd be lying if I said that I don't every now and then listen to you know some sort of ugly, good songs um or even watch it on TV, you know, like um because it is entertaining and there's an aspect of like you know, there's certain things I'm if there's certain there's certain things if it's in the song or if it's in the show, I'm just not going to, you know, like I'm I'm not I'm not interested in watching a show that has a bunch of nudity or you know something like that.
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:48.559
Um but there's also an aspect of me like if it's if it's swearing that maybe I can get past maybe I can't, you know, maybe I can't get past it, maybe I can get past it, you know, like it's it's one of those things like how much, how far away do you stay, how far away do you stand, you know?
00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:51.039
Um so I don't know.
00:45:51.119 --> 00:46:06.639
I think that's I think that's a uh I go back a lot of times to that food offer diet, you know, the sacrifice to idols, you know, like where if I that that principle, not that thing, but that principle.
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:16.159
And it's I don't know, it's kind of a it's kind of a challenge because some of that stuff is beautiful, um, but it is or not beautiful, is is good, but it is ugly.
00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:16.559
Yeah.
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:34.639
And and I but I also know that if I, you know, the the closer you get to that to the zero-zero axis, you know, the zero of the axis, uh the closer you get to that, I think the far the harder it is to really stay in um in a close relationship with God, you know what I'm saying?
00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:36.159
Like I think it causes drift.
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:58.480
I think that when we are listening to music and watching shows and participating in entertainment that is drawing us closer and closer to the zero and on average, or um, which can happen really quickly in that bad, in that, um, in that ugly category, uh, I think that it really just starts to hamper things like our prayer life and like our um our our uh just our focus on who God is.
00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:07.360
I find that even if I listen to too much country music, sure, um that even if I'm listening to the good stuff, you know, I I listen to Pandora because I can just thumbs down stuff and I don't have to listen to it anymore.
00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:10.159
And it that way I curate my own station or whatever.
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:22.480
But um I find that if I listen, if I'm exclusively listening to that, that it actually has a um has a uh a draw away from God, even though it's not necessarily ugly.
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:22.960
Yeah.
00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:32.320
And so um I think we do have to be super careful about getting close to that, even close to that zero axis, you know, the zero on the axis.
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:39.119
Um, we we've narrowed from just entertainment to music, but I I think uh music really shapes the way you think.
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:40.000
Oh, absolutely.
00:47:40.239 --> 00:47:43.119
Some people don't well I think absolutely, but not everybody does.
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:51.840
Like some people think you know music is uh it has no influence on how you on how you think, on how you feel, uh on how you live.
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:55.119
It seems just obvious to to me.
00:47:55.280 --> 00:48:05.519
Um it's also scriptural, uh the idea that you know God created music, God commands us to sing together because it influences our thinking and our feelings and our our community culture.
00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:08.000
Um but music is the longest book in the Bible.
00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:09.119
Yeah, is the psalms.
00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:11.280
Yeah, we're we're in it right now on Sunday mornings.
00:48:11.519 --> 00:48:17.360
But uh but it's uh music really shapes the way that you think and and so I I completely agree.
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:24.400
Like um you know, I I love uh I love the the band House Fires is a uh worship.
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:34.559
We're we're talking specifically about um worship music now, and um I love listening to them and when I listen to them for a long time I I feel like it changes my mood.
00:48:34.719 --> 00:48:37.760
I mean it's a very subjective thing, but like I can sense it.
00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:40.719
Oh, I think it happens with everybody, I just don't think everybody realizes it.
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:41.280
Yeah.
00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:41.840
Yeah.
00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:45.840
So uh yeah, I I I think there's a I don't want to be Amish.
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:52.159
I think there's a level of entertainment that's appropriate, and um, you know, I'd I'd certainly engage in a lot of entertainment.
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:55.760
So well this has been very entertaining.
00:48:56.079 --> 00:48:56.960
Get out of here.
00:48:58.559 --> 00:48:59.760
You know, hot take?
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:00.320
I do.
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:06.480
We talked we were talking about it before we started recording, and uh it's not really a hot take, I guess.
00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:07.599
It's just a personal preference.
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:12.480
I don't like musicals, so um, but kind of back to the entertainment question.
00:49:12.639 --> 00:49:17.360
Um, I think musicals are really beautiful uh and good most mostly.
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:19.199
I I guess I couldn't say that about all of them.
00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:22.159
Like I can appreciate musicals, but I can't watch them.
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:23.440
I just don't like them.
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:26.639
So I like music and I like movies, but I don't like musicals.
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:28.000
So uh there you go.
00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:29.360
Oh bro, I love musicals.
00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:29.760
Yeah, I know.
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:31.519
I listen I listen to the soundtracks.
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:32.159
Ugh.
00:49:33.519 --> 00:49:38.400
Um well uh my hot take is that all dreams are bad.
00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:43.039
There's some people talk about bad dreams and good dreams, they're all bad.
00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:46.400
If I wake up from a good dream and it's not real, that's bad.
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:50.159
If I wake up from a bad dream, I'm terrified, that's bad.
00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:51.360
All dreams are bad.
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:55.920
I just told Hannah last night, I was like, I don't remember the last time I remembered a dream.
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:58.960
I used to remember dreams all the time, but not anymore.
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:00.639
If I could just never dream it.
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:03.280
The only time I ever want to dream is if God's gonna talk to me.
00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:04.960
Other than that, I don't want to dream.
00:50:05.199 --> 00:50:06.480
There's a topic for another time.
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:06.960
Yeah.
00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:09.360
I have thoughts on that, but this is hot take time.
00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:10.639
Yep, yep.
00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:11.360
All right.
00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:19.119
Well, this has been the Practical Matters podcast because we believe that making theology practical matters.
00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:20.480
See you the next time.
00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:21.679
See you later.
