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Welcome to the Power Bytes podcast, brought to you by Caterpillar Electric Power with your host John Thomas.
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Each month we deliver
the latest insights, trends and cutting
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edge tools to keep you ahead
in the dynamic energy industry.
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Whether you're streamlining operations,
embracing new technologies,
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or staying informed,
Power Bytes is your go to source.
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Join us as we explore innovations shaping the future and the resources you need to succeed.
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Welcome to Power Bytes,
where energy meets innovation.
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Welcome to another
episode of the Power Bytes Podcast,
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and this time I'm joined by two guests
who are going to help me help
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you understand what goes on during a power
project in the field.
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They work very closely with contractors
that are executing these projects,
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and they're going to help us understand
what truly determines a projects success.
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We're going to look at the hidden
pitfalls.
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We're going to look at the collaboration
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that it takes to get it done
between the contractors of the dealers.
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And we're going to hear some real stories
from the field, and all of it
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is going to help you understand how you
can best position yourself for success.
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I've been joined today by Lyla
Chandler from Carter Machinery, one of our
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Caterpillar dealers in North America,
and by David Stutzman from Caterpillar.
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So both of you, thank you for joining.
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Appreciate you guys
spending the time with us today.
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Happy to be here.
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Thanks for having us.
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So let's start by just each of you
giving a little bit
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of a background of your role
and experience in the power industry.
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And Lila, we'll start with you. Ladies first.
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So I'm the outside sales engineer
for Carter Machinery.
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I represent
our Central Virginia territory,
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so I handle all new generator, automatic
transfer switch, and switch gears.
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Sales that come in through the central
Virginia area.
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I've been with Carter Machinery for about a year and a half now, and prior
to that I was in school.
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I got my undergrad and master's
degree in mechanical and nuclear engineering.
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Awesome, awesome.
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Well welcome. And you're
relatively new to the Cat family.
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And then David,
tell us a little bit about you.
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Yes. I'm the electric power retail senior
sales rep.
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I've been a Cat 20 years now.
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I cover numerous dealers
across North America for electric power retail products.
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Retail being 1500 kW and below is what we designate at Caterpillar
as electric power retail.
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And one of my dealers is Carter. So I work with Lila all the time.
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Happy to be here today.
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Awesome You guys probably get to spend
some windshield time together.
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So that's great. Again
thanks for joining us.
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So let's first start off when people here
power Project,
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they might not necessarily connect
to what that mean.
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So and what have you jump in
and kind of give the audience
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a feel for what we're talking about today
when we mention the word power project.
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When we mentioned Power project.
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That's any project that has to do
with either a prime or standby power.
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So whether it's powering straight
from the generator, where a site
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may not have a service from an electrical
provider or it's as a standby unit,
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so should the normal service power
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go down, they have backup power.
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So that's generators,
whether they be stationary or rental.
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Excellent, excellent.
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And in these power projects,
is there some kind of outline
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and what do they usually look like,
like from start to finish?
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What's funny is I truly believe
every project is different.
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They kind of follow the same guideline.
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IT projects will look about the same.
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You will get drawings and specification
documents and design builds.
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You start from ground zero
and go up from there.
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But truly every project is different.
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Different customers have different needs.
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So it's all about addressing
the project struck needs.
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So when
we think about the electrical contractors
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role in this process,
getting the project, I'm assuming
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they've got to coordinate
with a long list of people, David,
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who are all the different types of folks
that are involved early
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on the power side of these projects,
we get them kind of executed correctly.
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It's a great question. And it can be difficult at times
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because the list is long
and it depends on the project.
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So you have the electrical contractor.
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You can also have a general contractor.
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You can have the equipment
maintenance team
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of the company actually procuring
or purchasing the generator.
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You can have local site
inspectors as well.
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And then you can have down the supply
chain equipment suppliers,
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not just a generator but many other items
utilized in this project.
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So the list can get pretty big.
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Well Lila, I’ll go back to you here.
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What is the right time for a contractor
to bring you
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or the Caterpillar power team
into the conversation?
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Is there a right time to do that?
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I would say the right
time is any time, the earlier the better.
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Being involved in the process, prior
to bidding or prior to purchase day
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helps alleviate some of the growing pains
of going through a project.
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There's less exceptions.
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There's less notes.
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There's less request for clarifications.
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We have the opportunity
to work with local engineers,
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and we have people on our team
that will work to design
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a project that best helps the customer
if all their needs.
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So when a customer decides
they want to build a project,
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they have an option
to come directly to us and we can work
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in tandem with the design engineer
to find a Cat solution.
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The best helps and
solves the project's needs.
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Getting experts involved in the process
really is never a mistake, right?
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Can you give us some examples of where
that early inclusion in a project
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has really delivered
some value to the end user?
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Absolutely.
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Our customer had taken a look at their loads and had done some rough
math, and had determined
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they needed two megawatts of power
to back up their building.
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And when they brought our team in,
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our application engineer
was able to go in to Cat spec
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sizer, load in their loads,
and we're able to actually value engineer
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a solution to where they didn't need
a full two megawatts for their project.
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They only needed about one megawatt.
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So that's half the size.
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That's a fraction
of the cost of a two megawatt unit.
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Huge.
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And when you're thinking about cost
constraints and you're thinking about
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footprint constraints and even just value
engineering at the base,
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we really want to take a look at
what is the best.
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It turned out that they didn't
need all of that power.
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And especially with diesel engines,
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we want to avoid over sizing a generator
that leads to wet stocking
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that we'd send not great performance
and leads to a shorter lifetime.
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And you know,
we want this customer to have a solution
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that's going to last
them for decades to come.
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Yeah, I know you want it to be the most cost effective
solution for that as well, right?
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So that's a fantastic example.
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I guess I'll kick that same question to you David, do you have an example that you can think
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of where early involvement
helped the end user with the customer?
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Big time. So one we have seen a lot in the industry
lately is the transition
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from purely standby, where customers now
are pivoting a little bit
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towards wanting to monetize their assets
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and actually use them
for more than just standby.
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As we see a lot of utilities around
North America having incentive plans,
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they can vary greatly on
whether it's a kickback,
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if it's going offline
during these peak times.
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But there's many programs going on
right now around North America.
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Many customers are wanting to know, hey,
how can I take advantage of that?
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And knowing that early is big for us,
we can actually tell you
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what incentive programs are in your
project territory when we're sizing it up.
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We can also put you down a path
for the correct rating, right?
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Not just a stem, but emergency
standby generator, but other ratings
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such as limited time
power, demand response time.
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These are ratings that Caterpillar
does offer that can satisfy
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and monetize your asset
when using it for projects like that.
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Yeah. That's exciting.
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You know, I think we hear people say a lot,
and I think you just gave us a good feel for it, right?
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I mean, you said the word kickback,
but it's basically earning money
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beyond what you initially expected
the asset was going to accomplish for you.
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So that's a great example.
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In both of those examples
you guys talked about sizing.
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And so I'd like to kind of ask
this question.
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And while I will start with you.
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I'm assuming that sizing can make or break
a project to some extent.
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What are the most common
things that you see happen that get missed
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when someone is sizing a generator set?
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A lot of the time we see customers
who have just hard thrown in their lows.
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They've taken a look at all of their loads
and they say, yep,
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this generator will cover all of my loads
all at the same time.
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When have we ever gone around
a building, turned on every single light,
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turned on all the hack
and the fire pump and everything?
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They're sizing this generator
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for a hypothetical situation
that's likely never going to happen.
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If you're turning every light on
and the fire pump is on
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and the HVAC is going full blast,
something horrible has happened.
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So we with spec Sizer,
we can do load shedding.
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We can also size things
to come on in increments and in steps.
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Another thing we run into is
we see projects come in where
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maybe they've sized for the running load
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of, let's say, an HVAC
unit, the chiller or heat pump.
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Well, when those units are on, they may only draw a small amount of power, especially
if they're not running full blast.
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But when they initially turn
on, there's a huge inrush.
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We need to take into account
that initial in rush to ensure
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that the generator is properly sized
large enough
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that when it goes to turn on,
we're actually getting power out of it.
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We're getting power from the generator
that can feed those necessary units.
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So to piggyback on what Lila said, it's exactly
it's talking through your loads.
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What is your your full load need?
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Surprisingly, sometimes customers realize
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they don't actually need to back up
everything, just the emergency options.
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And then number two,
it would be prioritizing your load, right?
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What are you actually getting emergency
standby for?
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What's the key value here.
You need turned on.
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And I'll give you an example
from the real world.
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Many of our customers in the grocery store
industry need an emergency
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standby generator,
and you would think for an
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obvious need like keeping the coolers
on, keeping the produce fresh.
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Of course, you wouldn't want that
to spoil, but actually the number one need
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is to keep the cash registers on
because during a natural disaster,
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humans flock to the grocery store
to stock up on what they need.
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You better have those cash
registers working.
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So it would just be, as Leila mentioned,
a discussion on
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what are the key loads and then what
your actual need is for this project.
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That makes a lot of sense.
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So I'm going to float this
to the both of you.
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You guys decide
who wants to jump in first,
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but when a customer says
that they need backup power,
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what questions do we ask that
kind of turn, that very general
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high level request into something
that's a real project or low profile?
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I think it actually piggy backs off our previous conversation.
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The first thing I ask is,
what are we backing up?
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Is this a full building backup?
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Is this a partial building backup?
00:11:26.750 --> 00:11:30.437
Is this replacing a generator
they've already had
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and that one slipped out its life cycle
and really setting expectations early on?
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We don't think about backup power
until we need it.
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You don't think about turning
your lights on until they don't turn on.
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So really pausing to think and brainstorm
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with customers of why do you need this?
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And most of the time it's
something has happened.
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Actually,
my first day at Carter Machinery, Richmond
00:11:55.625 --> 00:11:59.562
lost power and the water treatment plant
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that serves the city of Richmond
lost their power at four in the morning.
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All of the pumps in the station
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flooded and the entire station went down.
00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.125
The entire city of Richmond
was at without water
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for about 4 or 5 days,
and we saw a huge inrush after that
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of other water
treatment plants and people approaching us
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who had wells, who hadn't even thought
about what if my power goes down?
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But it was this one
event that chewed off something,
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and everyone's minds of
this is why we need our power backed up.
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Anything you want to add there David?
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Yeah, so very
00:12:37.562 --> 00:12:40.625
similar to what Lila said asking
what is the need.
00:12:40.625 --> 00:12:40.875
Right.
00:12:40.875 --> 00:12:41.625
And you can kind of
00:12:41.625 --> 00:12:45.562
maybe put them in three categories
so you can understand your customer needs.
00:12:45.562 --> 00:12:47.312
One is the most basic, right?
00:12:47.312 --> 00:12:50.562
Maybe the customer actually
doesn't even want a generator,
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but they're legally required to have one
for life safety issues in their building.
00:12:54.687 --> 00:12:55.750
Right. Let's start there.
00:12:55.750 --> 00:12:59.437
Let's get you the most basic
need to satisfy that legal requirement.
00:12:59.500 --> 00:13:02.625
Number two would be more in line with
the grocery store chain we talked about.
00:13:02.687 --> 00:13:05.750
They want to make sure they can continue
to run their business, continue
00:13:05.750 --> 00:13:08.187
to make money, continue
to serve their customers.
00:13:08.187 --> 00:13:09.000
That's a big one.
00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:12.875
And the number three is really a growing
industry monetizing your asset.
00:13:12.875 --> 00:13:17.000
Does your project take place in
one of the locations where the utilities
00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:21.312
actually giving back money for those
that can go off grid, and that's become
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a huge growing area of the industry
that we're really, really into right now.
00:13:25.875 --> 00:13:26.500
Excellent.
00:13:26.500 --> 00:13:27.875
Now, you brought up something there
00:13:27.875 --> 00:13:30.750
in your answer, David, you mentioned that
there are some industries,
00:13:30.750 --> 00:13:33.562
some applications
where they're legally required for backup.
00:13:33.562 --> 00:13:35.625
Can you give us some examples of what
some of those are?
00:13:35.625 --> 00:13:36.375
Sure, sure.
00:13:36.375 --> 00:13:40.312
Most building code in North America,
if you're at a certain occupancy
00:13:40.312 --> 00:13:45.250
or if your health care industry, you're
legally required to have backup power.
00:13:45.250 --> 00:13:48.875
And then, of course, health care industry,
you definitely want to keep
00:13:48.875 --> 00:13:51.187
that hospital equipment on.
00:13:51.187 --> 00:13:52.937
Well,
I'm going to shift gears a little bit.
00:13:52.937 --> 00:13:54.625
We talked a little bit about diesel today.
00:13:54.625 --> 00:13:57.000
We haven't talked a lot about natural gas.
00:13:57.000 --> 00:13:59.812
But how are customers and contractors
00:13:59.812 --> 00:14:03.937
making this decision
and thinking through their fuel choice.
00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:07.250
What is kind of driving them
to go in one direction or another?
00:14:07.375 --> 00:14:10.375
I've seen a lot of initial cost
00:14:10.375 --> 00:14:15.312
being a determining factor
as well as cost of operations,
00:14:15.312 --> 00:14:19.187
so diesel has a much lower cost of entry
00:14:19.187 --> 00:14:22.187
depending on the economy or pool prices.
00:14:22.250 --> 00:14:27.062
Perhaps somebody doesn't want to
or they have the flexibility
00:14:27.062 --> 00:14:28.500
for fuel choices.
00:14:28.500 --> 00:14:31.812
So for example, in healthcare
they must use diesel
00:14:31.812 --> 00:14:35.562
and they have requirements
on their runtime amounts.
00:14:35.625 --> 00:14:39.750
On the other side of that, for customers
that do have that option of natural gas,
00:14:39.750 --> 00:14:42.750
natural gas
does tend to have a higher barrier
00:14:42.750 --> 00:14:46.625
of entry cost wise,
but it may be more cost effective
00:14:46.625 --> 00:14:51.875
for a particular area
to use natural gas over diesel.
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:56.500
I'd also like to add that
depending on the application,
00:14:56.812 --> 00:15:00.375
diesel may not be the best option
depending on where this site is.
00:15:00.375 --> 00:15:04.687
So for example, you're doing a site
that's in a very busy city.
00:15:04.687 --> 00:15:08.500
There's fuel maximums that are allowed
to be inside of a building.
00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:11.062
So that's one constraint
we would have to look at.
00:15:11.062 --> 00:15:16.875
And also in large
cities, natural gas may be easier to get.
00:15:16.875 --> 00:15:22.187
Rather than having a huge diesel tanker
running down a very busy died street.
00:15:22.187 --> 00:15:23.937
Location of the generator.
00:15:23.937 --> 00:15:26.250
Is this generator on a roof?
00:15:26.250 --> 00:15:27.625
Is it going to be easier
00:15:27.625 --> 00:15:31.750
to put a whole day tank system
and have the fuel pumping up?
00:15:31.750 --> 00:15:35.750
Do they have the space for a large fuel
tank, or is it going to be easier for them
00:15:35.750 --> 00:15:40.250
to have natural gas that may already
be servicing their building
00:15:40.250 --> 00:15:44.812
other buildings in the block, rather
than trying to coordinate diesel delivery?
00:15:44.812 --> 00:15:46.500
So it just depends.
00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:49.500
There are other aspects, David,
that you've seen people
00:15:49.562 --> 00:15:51.437
and considering
as they're making that choice.
00:15:51.437 --> 00:15:54.375
So emissions can be a big one,
as we just mentioned for you,
00:15:54.375 --> 00:16:00.250
the company, sustainability goals, local
requirements, legal emissions regulations,
00:16:00.312 --> 00:16:02.937
another option
that can weigh into the diesel
00:16:02.937 --> 00:16:06.125
versus natural gas discussion
could be your rating.
00:16:06.125 --> 00:16:09.875
It is much easier to get a demand
00:16:09.875 --> 00:16:15.375
response, limited time power or even Prime
rating on a natural gas gen set
00:16:15.375 --> 00:16:19.000
because again, of the lower emissions
versus trying to get that rating,
00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:23.062
especially a prime rating on a diesel
gen set, there's a lot more bells
00:16:23.062 --> 00:16:24.375
and whistles after treatment.
00:16:24.375 --> 00:16:27.375
You'd have to put on there
driving the cost up versus
00:16:27.375 --> 00:16:31.750
to get that lower emissions level
to get a different rating.
00:16:31.750 --> 00:16:32.250
That, as
00:16:32.250 --> 00:16:36.250
I just mentioned, to monetize your asset
with regard to natural gas gen sets.
00:16:36.750 --> 00:16:38.187
And that's where my head was going.
00:16:38.187 --> 00:16:40.937
Thanks for helping me cover that.
I greatly appreciate it. What?
00:16:40.937 --> 00:16:45.250
Talk a little bit about what
site realities tend to change the plan,
00:16:45.250 --> 00:16:49.062
what the project moved from paper
and bidding to kind of reality.
00:16:49.125 --> 00:16:50.812
And really,
what I'm trying to dig into here
00:16:50.812 --> 00:16:55.375
is it's really nice to look at a pretty
set of plans and everything's laid out.
00:16:55.375 --> 00:16:56.375
There's a lot of space.
00:16:56.375 --> 00:16:57.312
But what are we seeing
00:16:57.312 --> 00:17:01.812
with our contractors
when we transition from paper to reality?
00:17:02.625 --> 00:17:03.875
It can be anything.
00:17:03.875 --> 00:17:07.562
My favorite is when we walk a site
and it looks nothing
00:17:07.625 --> 00:17:10.625
like the drawings dimensions are off, or
00:17:10.750 --> 00:17:13.750
all of a sudden there's this huge,
00:17:13.750 --> 00:17:18.062
immovable object right where we thought
we were going to put a generator pad.
00:17:18.062 --> 00:17:22.000
I worked on a school
not that long ago, and they had
00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:26.125
massive
propane tanks to fuel the kitchens.
00:17:26.187 --> 00:17:30.937
Well, we couldn't by code put our tank
within a certain distance of these tank.
00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:32.937
We had we had planned this out.
00:17:32.937 --> 00:17:35.312
We thought we knew exactly
where it was going to go.
00:17:35.312 --> 00:17:38.000
And as soon as we walked the site,
we said, we can't do this.
00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:41.375
And we had to completely shift gears
and find a new location.
00:17:41.375 --> 00:17:44.625
So really seeing things
with their own two eyes
00:17:44.625 --> 00:17:47.812
and being able to see things
that maybe the drawing didn't have,
00:17:47.812 --> 00:17:53.125
and being able to adapt and adjust
the needs of the project as we go.
00:17:53.125 --> 00:17:54.750
Projects involve humans, right?
00:17:54.750 --> 00:17:58.000
So you can write everything on paper,
but when you get out there in reality
00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:00.250
and are dealing with humans,
things can change.
00:18:00.250 --> 00:18:04.250
So an example of a project I was on,
the drawings done, everything laid out,
00:18:04.250 --> 00:18:07.437
and then when the team went out
to actually
00:18:07.437 --> 00:18:11.187
walk the grounds and make this a reality,
the owner was there
00:18:11.187 --> 00:18:15.562
and all of a sudden that person decided,
I don't like the look of it there.
00:18:15.562 --> 00:18:19.750
And thousands of dollars
that have been worked on for this project
00:18:19.750 --> 00:18:24.250
suddenly pivot and change
because of one decision of moving it
00:18:24.250 --> 00:18:28.125
to another place for for looks,
which I totally understand, but these are
00:18:28.125 --> 00:18:32.125
just the reality of dealing with humans
and projects in this industry.
00:18:32.125 --> 00:18:33.687
Another one that can happen
00:18:33.687 --> 00:18:37.687
quite often is you've adjusted
for the amount of space for the generator,
00:18:37.812 --> 00:18:41.250
but you've forgotten that
that generator will need to be serviced.
00:18:41.250 --> 00:18:42.812
Opening the doors. So
00:18:42.812 --> 00:18:46.875
you got to have space to come in and work
all over the generator surrounding it.
00:18:46.875 --> 00:18:48.062
Can I share something real
00:18:48.062 --> 00:18:52.562
quick on top of just owner's preferences,
00:18:52.937 --> 00:18:56.750
taking into account the people
that are going to be out of sight?
00:18:56.750 --> 00:19:01.750
Is this somewhere
that people are going to be frequenting?
00:19:01.750 --> 00:19:05.937
So I just went on a site
and next to the generator,
00:19:05.937 --> 00:19:12.500
they had a bench, and this was like
the one piece of shade that this area got.
00:19:12.500 --> 00:19:15.875
And so the workers on their breaks
00:19:15.875 --> 00:19:19.437
would go and be near the generator
because it gave off shade.
00:19:19.437 --> 00:19:23.312
And when we were talking about
moving the generator, well,
00:19:23.312 --> 00:19:26.562
this generator has kind of become a staple
for these people.
00:19:26.562 --> 00:19:28.125
It is it is rare.
00:19:28.125 --> 00:19:31.625
They can go and get shade
during a very hot day.
00:19:31.625 --> 00:19:35.625
So taking into account how our equipment
might not only service the building,
00:19:35.625 --> 00:19:38.750
but its impact on its environment as well.
00:19:39.062 --> 00:19:39.562
Yeah.
00:19:39.562 --> 00:19:41.500
Great examples guys. Great examples.
00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:43.250
I think we've covered some of this.
00:19:43.250 --> 00:19:48.312
What are some small detail
that you have seen create big issues later
00:19:48.562 --> 00:19:51.750
if they aren't confirmed up right.
00:19:52.250 --> 00:19:53.937
We're seeing a lot of projects
00:19:53.937 --> 00:19:57.875
come to us in early development stage
that are not fully fleshed through.
00:19:57.937 --> 00:20:01.312
It comes to us as a concept
and someone asks us to price it
00:20:01.312 --> 00:20:05.312
and they say, yep, we're ready to buy it,
and they go to buy it.
00:20:05.312 --> 00:20:07.437
And all of a sudden
the project completely pivots.
00:20:07.437 --> 00:20:09.562
And, you know, we've done this work.
00:20:09.562 --> 00:20:11.187
They're ready to purchase
a piece of equipment,
00:20:11.187 --> 00:20:15.500
and all of a sudden everything changes
or pieces of equipment are changing.
00:20:15.500 --> 00:20:19.125
And it's difficult
because now you risk delaying the project.
00:20:19.125 --> 00:20:21.625
You run the risk of increased pricing,
00:20:21.625 --> 00:20:25.375
and not to mention
just the time it takes to do this.
00:20:25.375 --> 00:20:27.562
We want to make sure that we're
putting our best foot forward
00:20:27.562 --> 00:20:29.937
all the time
and acting in a customer's best interest,
00:20:29.937 --> 00:20:32.187
and it's difficult to do that
when we don't even know
00:20:32.187 --> 00:20:35.125
the full scope of the project
that's being presented to us.
00:20:35.125 --> 00:20:38.125
It sounds me a little bit
like what you're saying there while is
00:20:38.125 --> 00:20:41.437
that if they haven't really done
the design thoroughly,
00:20:41.437 --> 00:20:44.562
then they're changing the design
as they go forward.
00:20:44.875 --> 00:20:48.437
That to me
speaks to why you should get again,
00:20:48.500 --> 00:20:51.750
get the professionals
kind of involved early in the project.
00:20:51.812 --> 00:20:53.812
Right? I think that was a good example.
00:20:53.812 --> 00:20:55.250
Any other examples you can think of?
00:20:55.250 --> 00:20:56.812
Definitely getting a
00:20:56.812 --> 00:21:00.125
responsible electrical contractor involved
there can help mitigate
00:21:00.125 --> 00:21:03.812
a lot of little issues that end up
being major issues down the line.
00:21:03.875 --> 00:21:06.687
For example, sound requirements.
00:21:06.687 --> 00:21:11.250
What is the enclosure sound level
you have to be at in that area, right.
00:21:11.312 --> 00:21:14.562
If that generator ships
with a different enclosure on it,
00:21:14.687 --> 00:21:18.812
you set it up and then later realize
the local code is a different sound level.
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:19.937
That's going to be tough.
00:21:19.937 --> 00:21:22.625
You're going to actually have to rip
that enclosure off, put a new one on.
00:21:22.625 --> 00:21:24.000
That's a pain for everyone.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:25.000
There's local codes
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.125
that have certain sizing of fuel tanks,
certain ventilation required.
00:21:29.125 --> 00:21:32.375
These are all things Caterpillar
or good contractor would know
00:21:32.375 --> 00:21:34.062
some of these up front.
00:21:34.062 --> 00:21:35.250
Yeah, those are good examples.
00:21:35.250 --> 00:21:39.125
Well, what kind of close out what this
last question here, we've talked a lot
00:21:39.187 --> 00:21:41.562
about some projects that haven't gone
well today. Right.
00:21:41.562 --> 00:21:42.875
Let's look script on that.
00:21:42.875 --> 00:21:46.500
And let's think about some examples of
some that went really well.
00:21:46.500 --> 00:21:53.000
Were there some common themes
that helped that project be successful?
00:21:53.125 --> 00:21:55.187
We got involved from the get go.
00:21:55.187 --> 00:21:58.625
We knew the customer and we were brought
in by their engineering team.
00:21:58.625 --> 00:22:00.187
This customer happened to have
an engineering
00:22:00.187 --> 00:22:04.187
team that brought us in
and we sat and worked with them
00:22:04.187 --> 00:22:08.000
through the drawings,
through the spec sizer, through everything
00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:10.562
every question may
possibly could have had.
00:22:10.562 --> 00:22:14.625
And what that led to was
they knew exactly what they were getting.
00:22:14.875 --> 00:22:17.750
They knew the price point
that they were getting it at,
00:22:17.750 --> 00:22:20.000
and they knew the expected schedule.
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.250
If questions came up about scope,
we were able to have those conversations
00:22:24.250 --> 00:22:29.687
live and in person rather than a month
down the road after the bits come out,
00:22:29.687 --> 00:22:33.875
and it ended up being a successful
project, it has solidified my belief
00:22:33.875 --> 00:22:37.937
that the earlier we can be involved,
the smoother project will go
00:22:37.937 --> 00:22:43.625
because we can get out any road bumps
that may come from unknown information.
00:22:43.625 --> 00:22:46.625
We're there to provide
that information up front.
00:22:46.625 --> 00:22:47.062
Certainly.
00:22:47.062 --> 00:22:49.875
Sensing a theme with you Lila.
Early early early.
00:22:49.875 --> 00:22:50.312
How about you?
00:22:50.312 --> 00:22:52.000
David, why would you answer that question?
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:53.062
Exactly what Lila said.
00:22:53.062 --> 00:22:58.437
I mean, it sounds cliche, but communication early and often that that's the key
00:23:00.625 --> 00:23:02.187
Can you share with our audience
00:23:02.187 --> 00:23:04.687
what is Spec Sizer
and who has access to it?
00:23:04.687 --> 00:23:08.250
Spec Sizer is Caterpillar's
generator sizing tool.
00:23:08.250 --> 00:23:12.125
It's available to customers, contractors
00:23:12.125 --> 00:23:15.562
and dealers,
and it's a very user friendly system.
00:23:15.562 --> 00:23:19.500
You can go in and actually
put in your loads, put in your project
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:22.812
details, and spec
sizer will do its work and it's magic.
00:23:22.812 --> 00:23:27.437
And then it'll spit out
the suggested generator size for your project.
00:23:27.437 --> 00:23:31.437
Perfect and I would tell our listeners,
you should think about the output
00:23:31.437 --> 00:23:33.500
from that tool as a starting point,
00:23:33.500 --> 00:23:37.312
and you should always talk
to the professionals to get some guidance.
00:23:37.312 --> 00:23:40.750
But it is a great starting point
and a great tool to use.
00:23:40.750 --> 00:23:45.625
Well, hey, I greatly appreciate you guys
both taking the time
00:23:45.625 --> 00:23:47.375
and having this conversation with me
today.
00:23:47.375 --> 00:23:49.250
This has been fantastic discussing.
00:23:49.250 --> 00:23:50.937
I'm hoping our listeners enjoyed it.
00:23:50.937 --> 00:23:54.500
I hope that it was especially beneficial
for anyone
00:23:54.500 --> 00:23:57.937
who might be looking
at getting a power project started.
00:23:57.937 --> 00:23:59.937
So once again, thank you so much.
00:23:59.937 --> 00:24:03.062
Any closing comments or things
you'd like to share with the audience?
00:24:03.437 --> 00:24:06.437
Any time is the right time to reach out.
00:24:06.625 --> 00:24:07.875
That's what we're here for.
00:24:07.875 --> 00:24:12.562
At the end of the day,
we want the best solution for customers
00:24:12.562 --> 00:24:16.250
so that when they lose power,
they don't have to think twice about it.
00:24:16.250 --> 00:24:18.125
Can't beat that. That was incredible.
00:24:20.250 --> 00:24:23.187
For once
again, thanks guys, into our listeners.
00:24:23.187 --> 00:24:26.187
Thanks for listening
and we hope you hear us again soon.
00:24:27.375 --> 00:24:29.500
Thanks for tuning in to the Power Bytes
podcast.
00:24:29.500 --> 00:24:30.562
If you enjoyed the show,
00:24:30.562 --> 00:24:34.375
head on over to Cat.com and check out
Electric Power for more exciting content.
00:24:34.437 --> 00:24:36.062
Let's power tomorrow together!
Welcome to the Power Bytes podcast, brought to you by Caterpillar Electric Power with your host John Thomas.
00:00:05.812 --> 00:00:09.187
Each month we deliver
the latest insights, trends and cutting
00:00:09.187 --> 00:00:12.437
edge tools to keep you ahead
in the dynamic energy industry.
00:00:12.625 --> 00:00:15.937
Whether you're streamlining operations,
embracing new technologies,
00:00:15.937 --> 00:00:19.062
or staying informed,
Power Bytes is your go to source.
00:00:19.125 --> 00:00:23.562
Join us as we explore innovations shaping the future and the resources you need to succeed.
00:00:23.562 --> 00:00:26.562
Welcome to Power Bytes,
where energy meets innovation.
00:00:28.687 --> 00:00:31.187
Welcome to another
episode of the Power Bytes Podcast,
00:00:31.187 --> 00:00:35.000
and this time I'm joined by two guests
who are going to help me help
00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:39.187
you understand what goes on during a power
project in the field.
00:00:39.250 --> 00:00:43.000
They work very closely with contractors
that are executing these projects,
00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:49.000
and they're going to help us understand
what truly determines a projects success.
00:00:49.187 --> 00:00:51.062
We're going to look at the hidden
pitfalls.
00:00:51.062 --> 00:00:52.562
We're going to look at the collaboration
00:00:52.562 --> 00:00:56.125
that it takes to get it done
between the contractors of the dealers.
00:00:56.125 --> 00:01:00.062
And we're going to hear some real stories
from the field, and all of it
00:01:00.062 --> 00:01:04.250
is going to help you understand how you
can best position yourself for success.
00:01:04.250 --> 00:01:08.250
I've been joined today by Lyla
Chandler from Carter Machinery, one of our
00:01:08.250 --> 00:01:12.312
Caterpillar dealers in North America,
and by David Stutzman from Caterpillar.
00:01:12.312 --> 00:01:14.375
So both of you, thank you for joining.
00:01:14.375 --> 00:01:16.625
Appreciate you guys
spending the time with us today.
00:01:16.625 --> 00:01:18.375
Happy to be here.
00:01:18.375 --> 00:01:19.562
Thanks for having us.
00:01:19.562 --> 00:01:22.750
So let's start by just each of you
giving a little bit
00:01:22.750 --> 00:01:26.500
of a background of your role
and experience in the power industry.
00:01:26.500 --> 00:01:29.750
And Lila, we'll start with you. Ladies first.
00:01:29.750 --> 00:01:33.937
So I'm the outside sales engineer
for Carter Machinery.
00:01:33.937 --> 00:01:36.687
I represent
our Central Virginia territory,
00:01:36.687 --> 00:01:41.812
so I handle all new generator, automatic
transfer switch, and switch gears.
00:01:41.812 --> 00:01:44.937
Sales that come in through the central
Virginia area.
00:01:45.187 --> 00:01:51.062
I've been with Carter Machinery for about a year and a half now, and prior
to that I was in school.
00:01:51.062 --> 00:01:55.250
I got my undergrad and master's
degree in mechanical and nuclear engineering.
00:01:55.250 --> 00:01:56.625
Awesome, awesome.
00:01:56.625 --> 00:01:59.187
Well welcome. And you're
relatively new to the Cat family.
00:01:59.187 --> 00:02:00.750
And then David,
tell us a little bit about you.
00:02:00.750 --> 00:02:04.437
Yes. I'm the electric power retail senior
sales rep.
00:02:04.500 --> 00:02:06.875
I've been a Cat 20 years now.
00:02:06.875 --> 00:02:12.937
I cover numerous dealers
across North America for electric power retail products.
00:02:12.937 --> 00:02:19.125
Retail being 1500 kW and below is what we designate at Caterpillar
as electric power retail.
00:02:19.125 --> 00:02:22.250
And one of my dealers is Carter. So I work with Lila all the time.
00:02:22.250 --> 00:02:23.687
Happy to be here today.
00:02:23.687 --> 00:02:26.875
Awesome You guys probably get to spend
some windshield time together.
00:02:26.875 --> 00:02:28.875
So that's great. Again
thanks for joining us.
00:02:28.875 --> 00:02:32.250
So let's first start off when people here
power Project,
00:02:32.250 --> 00:02:36.187
they might not necessarily connect
to what that mean.
00:02:36.187 --> 00:02:40.062
So and what have you jump in
and kind of give the audience
00:02:40.062 --> 00:02:44.937
a feel for what we're talking about today
when we mention the word power project.
00:02:44.937 --> 00:02:47.625
When we mentioned Power project.
00:02:47.625 --> 00:02:52.625
That's any project that has to do
with either a prime or standby power.
00:02:52.812 --> 00:02:58.062
So whether it's powering straight
from the generator, where a site
00:02:58.125 --> 00:03:03.125
may not have a service from an electrical
provider or it's as a standby unit,
00:03:03.125 --> 00:03:06.437
so should the normal service power
00:03:06.500 --> 00:03:09.437
go down, they have backup power.
00:03:09.437 --> 00:03:13.875
So that's generators,
whether they be stationary or rental.
00:03:14.125 --> 00:03:15.437
Excellent, excellent.
00:03:15.437 --> 00:03:19.000
And in these power projects,
is there some kind of outline
00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:22.125
and what do they usually look like,
like from start to finish?
00:03:22.187 --> 00:03:26.062
What's funny is I truly believe
every project is different.
00:03:26.062 --> 00:03:28.125
They kind of follow the same guideline.
00:03:28.125 --> 00:03:30.375
IT projects will look about the same.
00:03:30.375 --> 00:03:35.375
You will get drawings and specification
documents and design builds.
00:03:35.375 --> 00:03:38.687
You start from ground zero
and go up from there.
00:03:38.687 --> 00:03:40.937
But truly every project is different.
00:03:40.937 --> 00:03:42.812
Different customers have different needs.
00:03:42.812 --> 00:03:45.625
So it's all about addressing
the project struck needs.
00:03:45.625 --> 00:03:48.312
So when
we think about the electrical contractors
00:03:48.312 --> 00:03:52.125
role in this process,
getting the project, I'm assuming
00:03:52.500 --> 00:03:55.500
they've got to coordinate
with a long list of people, David,
00:03:55.562 --> 00:03:59.500
who are all the different types of folks
that are involved early
00:03:59.500 --> 00:04:02.937
on the power side of these projects,
we get them kind of executed correctly.
00:04:02.937 --> 00:04:06.500
It's a great question. And it can be difficult at times
00:04:06.500 --> 00:04:10.312
because the list is long
and it depends on the project.
00:04:10.312 --> 00:04:13.125
So you have the electrical contractor.
00:04:13.125 --> 00:04:16.062
You can also have a general contractor.
00:04:16.062 --> 00:04:19.250
You can have the equipment
maintenance team
00:04:19.562 --> 00:04:23.437
of the company actually procuring
or purchasing the generator.
00:04:23.500 --> 00:04:27.125
You can have local site
inspectors as well.
00:04:27.125 --> 00:04:31.125
And then you can have down the supply
chain equipment suppliers,
00:04:31.125 --> 00:04:35.937
not just a generator but many other items
utilized in this project.
00:04:35.937 --> 00:04:38.500
So the list can get pretty big.
00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:40.500
Well Lila, I’ll go back to you here.
00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:43.625
What is the right time for a contractor
to bring you
00:04:43.687 --> 00:04:46.687
or the Caterpillar power team
into the conversation?
00:04:46.687 --> 00:04:49.437
Is there a right time to do that?
00:04:49.437 --> 00:04:53.250
I would say the right
time is any time, the earlier the better.
00:04:53.312 --> 00:04:58.000
Being involved in the process, prior
to bidding or prior to purchase day
00:04:58.437 --> 00:05:01.812
helps alleviate some of the growing pains
of going through a project.
00:05:01.812 --> 00:05:03.312
There's less exceptions.
00:05:03.312 --> 00:05:04.375
There's less notes.
00:05:04.375 --> 00:05:07.375
There's less request for clarifications.
00:05:07.375 --> 00:05:11.500
We have the opportunity
to work with local engineers,
00:05:11.500 --> 00:05:15.937
and we have people on our team
that will work to design
00:05:15.937 --> 00:05:20.062
a project that best helps the customer
if all their needs.
00:05:20.125 --> 00:05:23.562
So when a customer decides
they want to build a project,
00:05:23.562 --> 00:05:27.062
they have an option
to come directly to us and we can work
00:05:27.062 --> 00:05:30.625
in tandem with the design engineer
to find a Cat solution.
00:05:30.625 --> 00:05:34.500
The best helps and
solves the project's needs.
00:05:34.500 --> 00:05:39.062
Getting experts involved in the process
really is never a mistake, right?
00:05:39.125 --> 00:05:43.875
Can you give us some examples of where
that early inclusion in a project
00:05:43.875 --> 00:05:46.875
has really delivered
some value to the end user?
00:05:47.062 --> 00:05:48.125
Absolutely.
00:05:48.125 --> 00:05:53.937
Our customer had taken a look at their loads and had done some rough
math, and had determined
00:05:53.937 --> 00:05:57.000
they needed two megawatts of power
to back up their building.
00:05:57.125 --> 00:06:00.750
And when they brought our team in,
00:06:01.250 --> 00:06:04.812
our application engineer
was able to go in to Cat spec
00:06:04.812 --> 00:06:10.562
sizer, load in their loads,
and we're able to actually value engineer
00:06:10.562 --> 00:06:15.437
a solution to where they didn't need
a full two megawatts for their project.
00:06:15.500 --> 00:06:17.875
They only needed about one megawatt.
00:06:17.875 --> 00:06:19.687
So that's half the size.
00:06:19.687 --> 00:06:22.500
That's a fraction
of the cost of a two megawatt unit.
00:06:22.500 --> 00:06:23.000
Huge.
00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:26.812
And when you're thinking about cost
constraints and you're thinking about
00:06:26.812 --> 00:06:30.687
footprint constraints and even just value
engineering at the base,
00:06:30.687 --> 00:06:34.625
we really want to take a look at
what is the best.
00:06:34.687 --> 00:06:37.562
It turned out that they didn't
need all of that power.
00:06:37.562 --> 00:06:41.500
And especially with diesel engines,
00:06:41.500 --> 00:06:45.875
we want to avoid over sizing a generator
that leads to wet stocking
00:06:45.875 --> 00:06:49.250
that we'd send not great performance
and leads to a shorter lifetime.
00:06:49.250 --> 00:06:52.000
And you know,
we want this customer to have a solution
00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:53.875
that's going to last
them for decades to come.
00:06:53.875 --> 00:06:57.375
Yeah, I know you want it to be the most cost effective
solution for that as well, right?
00:06:57.437 --> 00:06:59.312
So that's a fantastic example.
00:06:59.312 --> 00:07:02.875
I guess I'll kick that same question to you David, do you have an example that you can think
00:07:02.875 --> 00:07:06.750
of where early involvement
helped the end user with the customer?
00:07:06.750 --> 00:07:11.250
Big time. So one we have seen a lot in the industry
lately is the transition
00:07:11.250 --> 00:07:15.812
from purely standby, where customers now
are pivoting a little bit
00:07:15.812 --> 00:07:18.125
towards wanting to monetize their assets
00:07:18.125 --> 00:07:21.312
and actually use them
for more than just standby.
00:07:21.375 --> 00:07:26.250
As we see a lot of utilities around
North America having incentive plans,
00:07:26.625 --> 00:07:29.062
they can vary greatly on
whether it's a kickback,
00:07:29.062 --> 00:07:31.375
if it's going offline
during these peak times.
00:07:31.375 --> 00:07:34.875
But there's many programs going on
right now around North America.
00:07:34.937 --> 00:07:38.687
Many customers are wanting to know, hey,
how can I take advantage of that?
00:07:38.687 --> 00:07:42.812
And knowing that early is big for us,
we can actually tell you
00:07:42.875 --> 00:07:46.812
what incentive programs are in your
project territory when we're sizing it up.
00:07:46.812 --> 00:07:50.125
We can also put you down a path
for the correct rating, right?
00:07:50.187 --> 00:07:54.250
Not just a stem, but emergency
standby generator, but other ratings
00:07:54.250 --> 00:07:59.062
such as limited time
power, demand response time.
00:07:59.062 --> 00:08:02.062
These are ratings that Caterpillar
does offer that can satisfy
00:08:02.062 --> 00:08:05.500
and monetize your asset
when using it for projects like that.
00:08:05.500 --> 00:08:06.625
Yeah. That's exciting.
00:08:06.625 --> 00:08:11.562
You know, I think we hear people say a lot,
and I think you just gave us a good feel for it, right?
00:08:11.562 --> 00:08:15.312
I mean, you said the word kickback,
but it's basically earning money
00:08:15.312 --> 00:08:19.937
beyond what you initially expected
the asset was going to accomplish for you.
00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:21.000
So that's a great example.
00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:25.875
In both of those examples
you guys talked about sizing.
00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.562
And so I'd like to kind of ask
this question.
00:08:28.562 --> 00:08:30.437
And while I will start with you.
00:08:30.437 --> 00:08:34.625
I'm assuming that sizing can make or break
a project to some extent.
00:08:34.750 --> 00:08:39.125
What are the most common
things that you see happen that get missed
00:08:39.187 --> 00:08:42.687
when someone is sizing a generator set?
00:08:42.875 --> 00:08:49.000
A lot of the time we see customers
who have just hard thrown in their lows.
00:08:49.062 --> 00:08:52.687
They've taken a look at all of their loads
and they say, yep,
00:08:52.687 --> 00:08:55.937
this generator will cover all of my loads
all at the same time.
00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:59.750
When have we ever gone around
a building, turned on every single light,
00:08:59.812 --> 00:09:03.125
turned on all the hack
and the fire pump and everything?
00:09:03.125 --> 00:09:04.437
They're sizing this generator
00:09:04.437 --> 00:09:08.250
for a hypothetical situation
that's likely never going to happen.
00:09:08.250 --> 00:09:11.375
If you're turning every light on
and the fire pump is on
00:09:11.375 --> 00:09:14.937
and the HVAC is going full blast,
something horrible has happened.
00:09:17.062 --> 00:09:20.562
So we with spec Sizer,
we can do load shedding.
00:09:20.562 --> 00:09:23.687
We can also size things
to come on in increments and in steps.
00:09:23.750 --> 00:09:28.437
Another thing we run into is
we see projects come in where
00:09:28.812 --> 00:09:32.562
maybe they've sized for the running load
00:09:32.562 --> 00:09:35.625
of, let's say, an HVAC
unit, the chiller or heat pump.
00:09:35.625 --> 00:09:42.000
Well, when those units are on, they may only draw a small amount of power, especially
if they're not running full blast.
00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:45.750
But when they initially turn
on, there's a huge inrush.
00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:49.250
We need to take into account
that initial in rush to ensure
00:09:49.250 --> 00:09:53.000
that the generator is properly sized
large enough
00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:57.562
that when it goes to turn on,
we're actually getting power out of it.
00:09:57.625 --> 00:10:01.500
We're getting power from the generator
that can feed those necessary units.
00:10:01.500 --> 00:10:06.437
So to piggyback on what Lila said, it's exactly
it's talking through your loads.
00:10:06.437 --> 00:10:08.437
What is your your full load need?
00:10:08.437 --> 00:10:10.500
Surprisingly, sometimes customers realize
00:10:10.500 --> 00:10:14.250
they don't actually need to back up
everything, just the emergency options.
00:10:14.250 --> 00:10:17.750
And then number two,
it would be prioritizing your load, right?
00:10:17.812 --> 00:10:21.250
What are you actually getting emergency
standby for?
00:10:21.250 --> 00:10:23.687
What's the key value here.
You need turned on.
00:10:23.687 --> 00:10:26.437
And I'll give you an example
from the real world.
00:10:26.437 --> 00:10:30.500
Many of our customers in the grocery store
industry need an emergency
00:10:30.500 --> 00:10:32.625
standby generator,
and you would think for an
00:10:32.625 --> 00:10:36.562
obvious need like keeping the coolers
on, keeping the produce fresh.
00:10:36.562 --> 00:10:40.625
Of course, you wouldn't want that
to spoil, but actually the number one need
00:10:40.687 --> 00:10:45.062
is to keep the cash registers on
because during a natural disaster,
00:10:45.062 --> 00:10:49.125
humans flock to the grocery store
to stock up on what they need.
00:10:49.125 --> 00:10:51.062
You better have those cash
registers working.
00:10:51.062 --> 00:10:54.000
So it would just be, as Leila mentioned,
a discussion on
00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:58.062
what are the key loads and then what
your actual need is for this project.
00:10:58.625 --> 00:10:59.687
That makes a lot of sense.
00:10:59.687 --> 00:11:01.687
So I'm going to float this
to the both of you.
00:11:01.687 --> 00:11:03.625
You guys decide
who wants to jump in first,
00:11:03.625 --> 00:11:07.187
but when a customer says
that they need backup power,
00:11:07.187 --> 00:11:11.437
what questions do we ask that
kind of turn, that very general
00:11:11.437 --> 00:11:16.187
high level request into something
that's a real project or low profile?
00:11:16.750 --> 00:11:19.750
I think it actually piggy backs off our previous conversation.
00:11:19.750 --> 00:11:22.812
The first thing I ask is,
what are we backing up?
00:11:22.812 --> 00:11:24.562
Is this a full building backup?
00:11:24.562 --> 00:11:26.750
Is this a partial building backup?
00:11:26.750 --> 00:11:30.437
Is this replacing a generator
they've already had
00:11:30.437 --> 00:11:36.437
and that one slipped out its life cycle
and really setting expectations early on?
00:11:36.437 --> 00:11:39.125
We don't think about backup power
until we need it.
00:11:39.125 --> 00:11:42.375
You don't think about turning
your lights on until they don't turn on.
00:11:42.375 --> 00:11:45.687
So really pausing to think and brainstorm
00:11:45.687 --> 00:11:49.312
with customers of why do you need this?
00:11:49.312 --> 00:11:52.312
And most of the time it's
something has happened.
00:11:52.375 --> 00:11:55.625
Actually,
my first day at Carter Machinery, Richmond
00:11:55.625 --> 00:11:59.562
lost power and the water treatment plant
00:11:59.562 --> 00:12:03.562
that serves the city of Richmond
lost their power at four in the morning.
00:12:03.687 --> 00:12:07.000
All of the pumps in the station
00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:10.000
flooded and the entire station went down.
00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.125
The entire city of Richmond
was at without water
00:12:12.125 --> 00:12:16.812
for about 4 or 5 days,
and we saw a huge inrush after that
00:12:16.875 --> 00:12:21.375
of other water
treatment plants and people approaching us
00:12:21.375 --> 00:12:26.062
who had wells, who hadn't even thought
about what if my power goes down?
00:12:26.062 --> 00:12:30.562
But it was this one
event that chewed off something,
00:12:30.562 --> 00:12:35.312
and everyone's minds of
this is why we need our power backed up.
00:12:35.312 --> 00:12:36.687
Anything you want to add there David?
00:12:36.687 --> 00:12:37.562
Yeah, so very
00:12:37.562 --> 00:12:40.625
similar to what Lila said asking
what is the need.
00:12:40.625 --> 00:12:40.875
Right.
00:12:40.875 --> 00:12:41.625
And you can kind of
00:12:41.625 --> 00:12:45.562
maybe put them in three categories
so you can understand your customer needs.
00:12:45.562 --> 00:12:47.312
One is the most basic, right?
00:12:47.312 --> 00:12:50.562
Maybe the customer actually
doesn't even want a generator,
00:12:50.562 --> 00:12:54.687
but they're legally required to have one
for life safety issues in their building.
00:12:54.687 --> 00:12:55.750
Right. Let's start there.
00:12:55.750 --> 00:12:59.437
Let's get you the most basic
need to satisfy that legal requirement.
00:12:59.500 --> 00:13:02.625
Number two would be more in line with
the grocery store chain we talked about.
00:13:02.687 --> 00:13:05.750
They want to make sure they can continue
to run their business, continue
00:13:05.750 --> 00:13:08.187
to make money, continue
to serve their customers.
00:13:08.187 --> 00:13:09.000
That's a big one.
00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:12.875
And the number three is really a growing
industry monetizing your asset.
00:13:12.875 --> 00:13:17.000
Does your project take place in
one of the locations where the utilities
00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:21.312
actually giving back money for those
that can go off grid, and that's become
00:13:21.312 --> 00:13:25.875
a huge growing area of the industry
that we're really, really into right now.
00:13:25.875 --> 00:13:26.500
Excellent.
00:13:26.500 --> 00:13:27.875
Now, you brought up something there
00:13:27.875 --> 00:13:30.750
in your answer, David, you mentioned that
there are some industries,
00:13:30.750 --> 00:13:33.562
some applications
where they're legally required for backup.
00:13:33.562 --> 00:13:35.625
Can you give us some examples of what
some of those are?
00:13:35.625 --> 00:13:36.375
Sure, sure.
00:13:36.375 --> 00:13:40.312
Most building code in North America,
if you're at a certain occupancy
00:13:40.312 --> 00:13:45.250
or if your health care industry, you're
legally required to have backup power.
00:13:45.250 --> 00:13:48.875
And then, of course, health care industry,
you definitely want to keep
00:13:48.875 --> 00:13:51.187
that hospital equipment on.
00:13:51.187 --> 00:13:52.937
Well,
I'm going to shift gears a little bit.
00:13:52.937 --> 00:13:54.625
We talked a little bit about diesel today.
00:13:54.625 --> 00:13:57.000
We haven't talked a lot about natural gas.
00:13:57.000 --> 00:13:59.812
But how are customers and contractors
00:13:59.812 --> 00:14:03.937
making this decision
and thinking through their fuel choice.
00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:07.250
What is kind of driving them
to go in one direction or another?
00:14:07.375 --> 00:14:10.375
I've seen a lot of initial cost
00:14:10.375 --> 00:14:15.312
being a determining factor
as well as cost of operations,
00:14:15.312 --> 00:14:19.187
so diesel has a much lower cost of entry
00:14:19.187 --> 00:14:22.187
depending on the economy or pool prices.
00:14:22.250 --> 00:14:27.062
Perhaps somebody doesn't want to
or they have the flexibility
00:14:27.062 --> 00:14:28.500
for fuel choices.
00:14:28.500 --> 00:14:31.812
So for example, in healthcare
they must use diesel
00:14:31.812 --> 00:14:35.562
and they have requirements
on their runtime amounts.
00:14:35.625 --> 00:14:39.750
On the other side of that, for customers
that do have that option of natural gas,
00:14:39.750 --> 00:14:42.750
natural gas
does tend to have a higher barrier
00:14:42.750 --> 00:14:46.625
of entry cost wise,
but it may be more cost effective
00:14:46.625 --> 00:14:51.875
for a particular area
to use natural gas over diesel.
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:56.500
I'd also like to add that
depending on the application,
00:14:56.812 --> 00:15:00.375
diesel may not be the best option
depending on where this site is.
00:15:00.375 --> 00:15:04.687
So for example, you're doing a site
that's in a very busy city.
00:15:04.687 --> 00:15:08.500
There's fuel maximums that are allowed
to be inside of a building.
00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:11.062
So that's one constraint
we would have to look at.
00:15:11.062 --> 00:15:16.875
And also in large
cities, natural gas may be easier to get.
00:15:16.875 --> 00:15:22.187
Rather than having a huge diesel tanker
running down a very busy died street.
00:15:22.187 --> 00:15:23.937
Location of the generator.
00:15:23.937 --> 00:15:26.250
Is this generator on a roof?
00:15:26.250 --> 00:15:27.625
Is it going to be easier
00:15:27.625 --> 00:15:31.750
to put a whole day tank system
and have the fuel pumping up?
00:15:31.750 --> 00:15:35.750
Do they have the space for a large fuel
tank, or is it going to be easier for them
00:15:35.750 --> 00:15:40.250
to have natural gas that may already
be servicing their building
00:15:40.250 --> 00:15:44.812
other buildings in the block, rather
than trying to coordinate diesel delivery?
00:15:44.812 --> 00:15:46.500
So it just depends.
00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:49.500
There are other aspects, David,
that you've seen people
00:15:49.562 --> 00:15:51.437
and considering
as they're making that choice.
00:15:51.437 --> 00:15:54.375
So emissions can be a big one,
as we just mentioned for you,
00:15:54.375 --> 00:16:00.250
the company, sustainability goals, local
requirements, legal emissions regulations,
00:16:00.312 --> 00:16:02.937
another option
that can weigh into the diesel
00:16:02.937 --> 00:16:06.125
versus natural gas discussion
could be your rating.
00:16:06.125 --> 00:16:09.875
It is much easier to get a demand
00:16:09.875 --> 00:16:15.375
response, limited time power or even Prime
rating on a natural gas gen set
00:16:15.375 --> 00:16:19.000
because again, of the lower emissions
versus trying to get that rating,
00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:23.062
especially a prime rating on a diesel
gen set, there's a lot more bells
00:16:23.062 --> 00:16:24.375
and whistles after treatment.
00:16:24.375 --> 00:16:27.375
You'd have to put on there
driving the cost up versus
00:16:27.375 --> 00:16:31.750
to get that lower emissions level
to get a different rating.
00:16:31.750 --> 00:16:32.250
That, as
00:16:32.250 --> 00:16:36.250
I just mentioned, to monetize your asset
with regard to natural gas gen sets.
00:16:36.750 --> 00:16:38.187
And that's where my head was going.
00:16:38.187 --> 00:16:40.937
Thanks for helping me cover that.
I greatly appreciate it. What?
00:16:40.937 --> 00:16:45.250
Talk a little bit about what
site realities tend to change the plan,
00:16:45.250 --> 00:16:49.062
what the project moved from paper
and bidding to kind of reality.
00:16:49.125 --> 00:16:50.812
And really,
what I'm trying to dig into here
00:16:50.812 --> 00:16:55.375
is it's really nice to look at a pretty
set of plans and everything's laid out.
00:16:55.375 --> 00:16:56.375
There's a lot of space.
00:16:56.375 --> 00:16:57.312
But what are we seeing
00:16:57.312 --> 00:17:01.812
with our contractors
when we transition from paper to reality?
00:17:02.625 --> 00:17:03.875
It can be anything.
00:17:03.875 --> 00:17:07.562
My favorite is when we walk a site
and it looks nothing
00:17:07.625 --> 00:17:10.625
like the drawings dimensions are off, or
00:17:10.750 --> 00:17:13.750
all of a sudden there's this huge,
00:17:13.750 --> 00:17:18.062
immovable object right where we thought
we were going to put a generator pad.
00:17:18.062 --> 00:17:22.000
I worked on a school
not that long ago, and they had
00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:26.125
massive
propane tanks to fuel the kitchens.
00:17:26.187 --> 00:17:30.937
Well, we couldn't by code put our tank
within a certain distance of these tank.
00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:32.937
We had we had planned this out.
00:17:32.937 --> 00:17:35.312
We thought we knew exactly
where it was going to go.
00:17:35.312 --> 00:17:38.000
And as soon as we walked the site,
we said, we can't do this.
00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:41.375
And we had to completely shift gears
and find a new location.
00:17:41.375 --> 00:17:44.625
So really seeing things
with their own two eyes
00:17:44.625 --> 00:17:47.812
and being able to see things
that maybe the drawing didn't have,
00:17:47.812 --> 00:17:53.125
and being able to adapt and adjust
the needs of the project as we go.
00:17:53.125 --> 00:17:54.750
Projects involve humans, right?
00:17:54.750 --> 00:17:58.000
So you can write everything on paper,
but when you get out there in reality
00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:00.250
and are dealing with humans,
things can change.
00:18:00.250 --> 00:18:04.250
So an example of a project I was on,
the drawings done, everything laid out,
00:18:04.250 --> 00:18:07.437
and then when the team went out
to actually
00:18:07.437 --> 00:18:11.187
walk the grounds and make this a reality,
the owner was there
00:18:11.187 --> 00:18:15.562
and all of a sudden that person decided,
I don't like the look of it there.
00:18:15.562 --> 00:18:19.750
And thousands of dollars
that have been worked on for this project
00:18:19.750 --> 00:18:24.250
suddenly pivot and change
because of one decision of moving it
00:18:24.250 --> 00:18:28.125
to another place for for looks,
which I totally understand, but these are
00:18:28.125 --> 00:18:32.125
just the reality of dealing with humans
and projects in this industry.
00:18:32.125 --> 00:18:33.687
Another one that can happen
00:18:33.687 --> 00:18:37.687
quite often is you've adjusted
for the amount of space for the generator,
00:18:37.812 --> 00:18:41.250
but you've forgotten that
that generator will need to be serviced.
00:18:41.250 --> 00:18:42.812
Opening the doors. So
00:18:42.812 --> 00:18:46.875
you got to have space to come in and work
all over the generator surrounding it.
00:18:46.875 --> 00:18:48.062
Can I share something real
00:18:48.062 --> 00:18:52.562
quick on top of just owner's preferences,
00:18:52.937 --> 00:18:56.750
taking into account the people
that are going to be out of sight?
00:18:56.750 --> 00:19:01.750
Is this somewhere
that people are going to be frequenting?
00:19:01.750 --> 00:19:05.937
So I just went on a site
and next to the generator,
00:19:05.937 --> 00:19:12.500
they had a bench, and this was like
the one piece of shade that this area got.
00:19:12.500 --> 00:19:15.875
And so the workers on their breaks
00:19:15.875 --> 00:19:19.437
would go and be near the generator
because it gave off shade.
00:19:19.437 --> 00:19:23.312
And when we were talking about
moving the generator, well,
00:19:23.312 --> 00:19:26.562
this generator has kind of become a staple
for these people.
00:19:26.562 --> 00:19:28.125
It is it is rare.
00:19:28.125 --> 00:19:31.625
They can go and get shade
during a very hot day.
00:19:31.625 --> 00:19:35.625
So taking into account how our equipment
might not only service the building,
00:19:35.625 --> 00:19:38.750
but its impact on its environment as well.
00:19:39.062 --> 00:19:39.562
Yeah.
00:19:39.562 --> 00:19:41.500
Great examples guys. Great examples.
00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:43.250
I think we've covered some of this.
00:19:43.250 --> 00:19:48.312
What are some small detail
that you have seen create big issues later
00:19:48.562 --> 00:19:51.750
if they aren't confirmed up right.
00:19:52.250 --> 00:19:53.937
We're seeing a lot of projects
00:19:53.937 --> 00:19:57.875
come to us in early development stage
that are not fully fleshed through.
00:19:57.937 --> 00:20:01.312
It comes to us as a concept
and someone asks us to price it
00:20:01.312 --> 00:20:05.312
and they say, yep, we're ready to buy it,
and they go to buy it.
00:20:05.312 --> 00:20:07.437
And all of a sudden
the project completely pivots.
00:20:07.437 --> 00:20:09.562
And, you know, we've done this work.
00:20:09.562 --> 00:20:11.187
They're ready to purchase
a piece of equipment,
00:20:11.187 --> 00:20:15.500
and all of a sudden everything changes
or pieces of equipment are changing.
00:20:15.500 --> 00:20:19.125
And it's difficult
because now you risk delaying the project.
00:20:19.125 --> 00:20:21.625
You run the risk of increased pricing,
00:20:21.625 --> 00:20:25.375
and not to mention
just the time it takes to do this.
00:20:25.375 --> 00:20:27.562
We want to make sure that we're
putting our best foot forward
00:20:27.562 --> 00:20:29.937
all the time
and acting in a customer's best interest,
00:20:29.937 --> 00:20:32.187
and it's difficult to do that
when we don't even know
00:20:32.187 --> 00:20:35.125
the full scope of the project
that's being presented to us.
00:20:35.125 --> 00:20:38.125
It sounds me a little bit
like what you're saying there while is
00:20:38.125 --> 00:20:41.437
that if they haven't really done
the design thoroughly,
00:20:41.437 --> 00:20:44.562
then they're changing the design
as they go forward.
00:20:44.875 --> 00:20:48.437
That to me
speaks to why you should get again,
00:20:48.500 --> 00:20:51.750
get the professionals
kind of involved early in the project.
00:20:51.812 --> 00:20:53.812
Right? I think that was a good example.
00:20:53.812 --> 00:20:55.250
Any other examples you can think of?
00:20:55.250 --> 00:20:56.812
Definitely getting a
00:20:56.812 --> 00:21:00.125
responsible electrical contractor involved
there can help mitigate
00:21:00.125 --> 00:21:03.812
a lot of little issues that end up
being major issues down the line.
00:21:03.875 --> 00:21:06.687
For example, sound requirements.
00:21:06.687 --> 00:21:11.250
What is the enclosure sound level
you have to be at in that area, right.
00:21:11.312 --> 00:21:14.562
If that generator ships
with a different enclosure on it,
00:21:14.687 --> 00:21:18.812
you set it up and then later realize
the local code is a different sound level.
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:19.937
That's going to be tough.
00:21:19.937 --> 00:21:22.625
You're going to actually have to rip
that enclosure off, put a new one on.
00:21:22.625 --> 00:21:24.000
That's a pain for everyone.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:25.000
There's local codes
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.125
that have certain sizing of fuel tanks,
certain ventilation required.
00:21:29.125 --> 00:21:32.375
These are all things Caterpillar
or good contractor would know
00:21:32.375 --> 00:21:34.062
some of these up front.
00:21:34.062 --> 00:21:35.250
Yeah, those are good examples.
00:21:35.250 --> 00:21:39.125
Well, what kind of close out what this
last question here, we've talked a lot
00:21:39.187 --> 00:21:41.562
about some projects that haven't gone
well today. Right.
00:21:41.562 --> 00:21:42.875
Let's look script on that.
00:21:42.875 --> 00:21:46.500
And let's think about some examples of
some that went really well.
00:21:46.500 --> 00:21:53.000
Were there some common themes
that helped that project be successful?
00:21:53.125 --> 00:21:55.187
We got involved from the get go.
00:21:55.187 --> 00:21:58.625
We knew the customer and we were brought
in by their engineering team.
00:21:58.625 --> 00:22:00.187
This customer happened to have
an engineering
00:22:00.187 --> 00:22:04.187
team that brought us in
and we sat and worked with them
00:22:04.187 --> 00:22:08.000
through the drawings,
through the spec sizer, through everything
00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:10.562
every question may
possibly could have had.
00:22:10.562 --> 00:22:14.625
And what that led to was
they knew exactly what they were getting.
00:22:14.875 --> 00:22:17.750
They knew the price point
that they were getting it at,
00:22:17.750 --> 00:22:20.000
and they knew the expected schedule.
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.250
If questions came up about scope,
we were able to have those conversations
00:22:24.250 --> 00:22:29.687
live and in person rather than a month
down the road after the bits come out,
00:22:29.687 --> 00:22:33.875
and it ended up being a successful
project, it has solidified my belief
00:22:33.875 --> 00:22:37.937
that the earlier we can be involved,
the smoother project will go
00:22:37.937 --> 00:22:43.625
because we can get out any road bumps
that may come from unknown information.
00:22:43.625 --> 00:22:46.625
We're there to provide
that information up front.
00:22:46.625 --> 00:22:47.062
Certainly.
00:22:47.062 --> 00:22:49.875
Sensing a theme with you Lila.
Early early early.
00:22:49.875 --> 00:22:50.312
How about you?
00:22:50.312 --> 00:22:52.000
David, why would you answer that question?
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:53.062
Exactly what Lila said.
00:22:53.062 --> 00:22:58.437
I mean, it sounds cliche, but communication early and often that that's the key
00:23:00.625 --> 00:23:02.187
Can you share with our audience
00:23:02.187 --> 00:23:04.687
what is Spec Sizer
and who has access to it?
00:23:04.687 --> 00:23:08.250
Spec Sizer is Caterpillar's
generator sizing tool.
00:23:08.250 --> 00:23:12.125
It's available to customers, contractors
00:23:12.125 --> 00:23:15.562
and dealers,
and it's a very user friendly system.
00:23:15.562 --> 00:23:19.500
You can go in and actually
put in your loads, put in your project
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:22.812
details, and spec
sizer will do its work and it's magic.
00:23:22.812 --> 00:23:27.437
And then it'll spit out
the suggested generator size for your project.
00:23:27.437 --> 00:23:31.437
Perfect and I would tell our listeners,
you should think about the output
00:23:31.437 --> 00:23:33.500
from that tool as a starting point,
00:23:33.500 --> 00:23:37.312
and you should always talk
to the professionals to get some guidance.
00:23:37.312 --> 00:23:40.750
But it is a great starting point
and a great tool to use.
00:23:40.750 --> 00:23:45.625
Well, hey, I greatly appreciate you guys
both taking the time
00:23:45.625 --> 00:23:47.375
and having this conversation with me
today.
00:23:47.375 --> 00:23:49.250
This has been fantastic discussing.
00:23:49.250 --> 00:23:50.937
I'm hoping our listeners enjoyed it.
00:23:50.937 --> 00:23:54.500
I hope that it was especially beneficial
for anyone
00:23:54.500 --> 00:23:57.937
who might be looking
at getting a power project started.
00:23:57.937 --> 00:23:59.937
So once again, thank you so much.
00:23:59.937 --> 00:24:03.062
Any closing comments or things
you'd like to share with the audience?
00:24:03.437 --> 00:24:06.437
Any time is the right time to reach out.
00:24:06.625 --> 00:24:07.875
That's what we're here for.
00:24:07.875 --> 00:24:12.562
At the end of the day,
we want the best solution for customers
00:24:12.562 --> 00:24:16.250
so that when they lose power,
they don't have to think twice about it.
00:24:16.250 --> 00:24:18.125
Can't beat that. That was incredible.
00:24:20.250 --> 00:24:23.187
For once
again, thanks guys, into our listeners.
00:24:23.187 --> 00:24:26.187
Thanks for listening
and we hope you hear us again soon.
00:24:27.375 --> 00:24:29.500
Thanks for tuning in to the Power Bytes
podcast.
00:24:29.500 --> 00:24:30.562
If you enjoyed the show,
00:24:30.562 --> 00:24:34.375
head on over to Cat.com and check out
Electric Power for more exciting content.
00:24:34.437 --> 00:24:36.062
Let's power tomorrow together!
