Same White Jacket, Different Job: Is Becoming a Head Chef a Reward or a Punishment?

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks,
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the show where we talk food and kitchens from
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a cook's point of view. I'm Eric. I'm here with
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Phil. Every cook wants to hear the same three
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words. You're ready or you're getting a raise.
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But nobody tells you what these words actually
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mean because the day that you get promoted is
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often the day you stop doing the thing that you
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got. that got you there, right? Like, so you
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were promoted for cooking and now suddenly you're
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managing people or managing other stuff like
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suppliers or different things. So promotion in
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a kitchen isn't the same job with a bigger title.
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It's a different job wearing the same white jacket.
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So today we're talking about what really happens
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when a cook becomes a leader, why promotions
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can be the hardest transition in this industry.
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And whether becoming head chef is actually a
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reward or the price you pay for getting good
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at cooking. So let's get into it. But first.
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I wanted to send a shout out to Tony Lorenzi,
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who wrote like something. really nice about me
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on Reddit, about my food tours. It was like a
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really nice tour I had with him and his group.
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And at the end, they made me a question that
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I said, I'm going to use this question in my
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podcast because I think it's a fun question.
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Phil, if you skim through a menu, is there a
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single word that instantly makes you stop looking
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and people, you're with the menu in a restaurant
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in front of you, you're with a group of people
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and suddenly you say, I know where I'm going
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to order. And it's because of word that it can
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be an ingredient. It can be a style. It can be
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a technique. And suddenly you saw it and you
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say, I'll go for this one for sure. Good question.
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First thing that comes to my head, and I wish
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that it was something like cool and aesthetic
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and like something very like blah. But if I'm
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going to be very, very honest, the one thing
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that like when I see it, I stop and I'm like,
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oh, fuck yeah. and that I will probably always
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order, is anything even remotely related to fried
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chicken. If I see a karaage, if I see a fucking
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buttermilk marinated monkfish deep fried, if
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I see anything fried chicken, I want to order
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it. You know, like, when they asked me this question,
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they said, and I started thinking about, it was
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the same as you, like, first thing that pops
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in my mind. And when they said style, I said
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like, definitely if there's a menu and somewhere
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it says Sichuan, I will go for that one. Oh,
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very true, yeah. You know, like, it could be
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like a carpaccio with Sichuan dressing. I'll
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go for that one. You know, like. Yeah, but that's
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a really good question because we all have these
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things like, you know, when I see like raw fish,
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you know, like even like, you know. um in a in
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a western restaurant like a crudo or something
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i always kind of like oh cool you know like let
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me let me check it out um so that for sure and
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also if there's anything croqueta related also
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i'm like i i have to but i'm very that that's
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another thing like fried chicken is kind of like
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it can be can be shit and still be enjoyable
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you know but fried chicken can also be fucking
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amazing um it's one of those things like with
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everything you know you can elevate it maximally
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but croquetas i'm very critical i think that
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even like shitty fried chicken is good you know
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like yeah that's what i'm saying yeah it's like
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even if it's kind of just overcooked and like
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whatever and just like crap you're still like
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it's fried chicken it's nice i hate that about
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myself you know i hate that i just had to say
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that i had to admit to that publicly Hey, Phil,
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have you subscribed to our newsletter yet? We
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have a newsletter? What's a newsletter about,
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Eric? Every month we share one cool thing from
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the world of food and restaurants, and occasionally
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a recipe we swore we'd never share. Like your
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secret boiled egg lemon tart recipe. But Eric,
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that was my grandma's secret recipe. Not anymore.
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Subscribe to our newsletter where we unveil all
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of Phil's grandmother's secrets. What can you
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say about promotions in kitchen? Can you share
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an experience or a moment where you say you got
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a promotion that maybe you were not ready? Or
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maybe, for example, I can think of places where
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I was. For example, my friends would say, like,
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you should ask for a promotion. You should ask
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them to make you the sous chef in that place.
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And I'm like, I'm not fucking ready. And maybe
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I was. Maybe I was capable of doing it, but I
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was not mentally prepared or available to do
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it. I don't know how to put it. Yeah, for sure,
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man. I feel like I have lots of examples where
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that's the case that I can think of. And I have
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a very set opinion on it also. But the problem
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is that... What I chose to do when I was starting
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out to cook and like in the middle of my career
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isn't what I would recommend anybody. So from
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my own experience, I feel like I did exactly
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the opposite of what I would recommend people
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to do today. Maybe that is why, you know, it's
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sometimes like I've had a very cool career so
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far, you know, knock on wood that it continues.
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But I've been super privileged. You know, I had
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a conversation about like somebody asked me about
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my CV the other day and they were like, oh, wow,
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you did a lot of stuff. And I was like, yeah,
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man, I was really lucky. I was really like, of
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course, I worked hard, but I was also just really,
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really lucky. But I moved very quickly. For example,
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you know, like the first time I became a head
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chef, I was, I think, 23. Like, what would you
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say consists in the work of a head chef? Like
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the bare basics of being a head chef? What do
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you think they should be? It's a very good question
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because, well, first of all, it should understand
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the whole kitchen, like the back of his hand,
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you know? It should know where everything is,
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how all the processes work, distinguish good
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from wrong, know all the people, and knowing
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all the people, the people that work in the restaurant
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and also the suppliers, also knowing how they
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function. It's not the same dealing with, for
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example, if you're a head chef and dealing with
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a line cook that is actually a better cook than
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you are. That's completely different than dealing
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with an apprentice. So knowing the psychology
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of each individual, I think it's foundational
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for me, for a head chef. I would say that's something
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that whoever, when I... The thing about people
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that I think that these guys were not good head
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chefs, I think that's the key point where they
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were wrong, right? Like understanding the psychology
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of the people they're working with. But yeah,
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just to say some like some titles, I would say
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those are some main titles that should be some
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checks that should be, you know, like contemplated.
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Yeah, for sure. And then, you know, and then
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we haven't even spoken about like, like restaurant
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management, you know, like recipe costing, you
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know, staffing budgets, etc, etc. Right. So like,
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when I became head chef, I was 23, I got hired
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as a sous chef for like a restaurant opening
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for two restaurants at the same time. And I very
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quickly in the process of opening these restaurants
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became the head chef. And if I think back to
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that, what I had going for me is that I was pretty
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good at cooking. And in that scenario, I was
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like... I could cook better than the people that
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worked with me, right? So that was what I had
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going for myself that I could kind of like, you
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know, teach and share and kind of drive forward.
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But that was it, man. Like that was it. I did
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not know how to manage people at all. Nobody
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had ever shown me that. I had no clue about costing
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and like really sort of like the business side
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of a restaurant. And yeah, but also, you know,
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sometimes you're thrust into the position. And
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you're completely left to your own devices and
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you have to figure it out for yourself. And so
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there is something to be said for that. I really
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believe that you should just grab the bull by
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the horns and do the work before you're actually
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giving the position and just kind of putting
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yourself in an uncertain and unfamiliar environment.
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I really, really believe in that. Stepping out
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of your comfort zone and just believing in yourself.
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Be sensible, obviously, but be sort of like,
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I can do it. But only to a certain point, right?
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Because if you do that too much, then you cause
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more harm than good. So I do believe in taking
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a position before you're actually super ready.
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Yeah. Like in general, in life, I think that's
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the right approach. Like jump to the water and
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then learn how to swim. You'll survive. No worries.
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Like maybe you'll drink some water in the process.
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But yeah, it'll be shit. Like it'll not be easy.
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You're not going to be Michael Phelps, right?
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Like you're not going to be like gliding through
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the water. You're going to flail, you know, and
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you're going to just try to stay. First of all,
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before you swim, you're going to try to stay
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afloat. You're trying to keep yourself from sinking.
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I really like this swimming analogy, by the way.
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That's really good. And then slowly you start
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moving forward, right? And then you get more
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comfortable in the water. I just mentioned something
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and how, how have you, I know you will come with
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a super arrogant answer to this one, but. How
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have you dealt with, like I mentioned, like you're
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a head chef and there's like one or two chefs
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that they're actually more experienced and better
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cooks than you are. And you know it and they
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know it. How do you deal with that? I think that
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there's a big difference, right? I thought you
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were going to say like, well, that has never
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happened. Never happened in my life. No, obviously
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it's happened loads of times. And I mean, better
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and worse is a very wide space, right? So in
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a perfect world, if you are a sensible person,
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you will realize that if you work with people
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who are better than you, you're only benefiting,
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right? Because if you only work with people who
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are worse than you, you can also benefit in a
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way that you can explore how to teach them and
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how to train them, which is very, very beautiful
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and like one of the most beautiful aspects of
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being a head chef, in my opinion. And one of
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the things that I have come to enjoy the most
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in being a head chef, right? Let's make an imaginary
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scenario, right? You're running a kitchen and
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you have this guy, he's on fish section and he's
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just a fucking machine, right? He is so good
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at working the portion. He's so good at cooking
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the fish. He's so good at cleaning the fish.
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Everything is perfect, right? That does not necessarily
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mean, maybe he's better at cooking fish than
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you. That does not necessarily mean that he would
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make a better head chef than you. right so there's
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a big difference right and um not everybody has
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the skill set of what you already like you know
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mentioned earlier of recognizing people's talents
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in your team and using them properly there's
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a huge underlooked skill set right i remember
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when i was in mexico and i was a head chef i
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had two guys that were basically my sous chefs
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right I could really push, right? And back then
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I wasn't a great manager, right? I was just like,
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push, push, push, push. Cause that's what I knew.
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I was really young also. Right. But this guy,
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I could like go into service and I could be like,
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Hey, come on, let's go. Come on. We need to like,
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we need to speed it up. We need to pick it up.
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And he'd be like, Oh, okay. And he'd like, just
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kind of go with it. Right. And get fired up.
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And the other guy, he was also not bad, but if
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I'd like. be a little bit more intense he would
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completely shut down and he'd be completely useless
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for the rest of service right because he would
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take it really personal which like is a like
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his own issue but i can't as a manager i can't
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blame him for that i have to recognize that in
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a person right and so i didn't i wasn't able
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for a long time to get the most out of this guy
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and in effect he had a bad time i had a bad time
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like it created negative energy right But if
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you really want to manage people, you need to
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recognize where people are at, what they can
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give, what they need. They need to play into
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that because then you create a really intricate
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ecosystem of people. And I think that's a skill
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set that is quite difficult to acquire unless
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you work in a place that has that going, that
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you can just absorb. Unfortunately, those places
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are a little bit rare. I think. Then there's
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another thing, something I've seen, and I remember
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cases even like in the first place where I've
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worked in the first restaurant, but also in other
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industries, not only in the kitchen where suddenly
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somebody gets the opportunity of being promoted.
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And they do the numbers, and they realize they
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will have just more responsibility, also like
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a raise, but if you calculate, and also more
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hours. So if you calculate, you will be just
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poorer per hour, even though you make more money
00:13:49.929 --> 00:13:51.970
at the end of the month. And a lot of people
00:13:51.970 --> 00:13:54.889
reject it. I remember, for example, the first
00:13:54.889 --> 00:13:59.169
restaurant where I worked, there were two line
00:13:59.169 --> 00:14:01.830
cooks. These were the veterans. These guys had
00:14:01.830 --> 00:14:04.309
been there for many years. And they wouldn't
00:14:04.309 --> 00:14:09.029
accept a promotion to Chef de Party because they
00:14:09.029 --> 00:14:11.870
were comfortable, you know, like they were running
00:14:11.870 --> 00:14:14.710
their stations. They would also rotate and everything.
00:14:14.929 --> 00:14:17.669
But yeah, I remember the reason that like the
00:14:17.669 --> 00:14:21.389
Chef de Party would have to double shifts. They
00:14:21.389 --> 00:14:24.309
would come like on both shifts for service while
00:14:24.309 --> 00:14:27.190
the commies, they would be, I mean, these were
00:14:27.190 --> 00:14:31.370
commies, but these were like professionals. Maybe
00:14:31.370 --> 00:14:33.830
it's what in your view would call a demi -chef.
00:14:34.490 --> 00:14:38.330
But anyways, like, and that caught my attention
00:14:38.330 --> 00:14:41.649
because I was young and ambitious. And I was
00:14:41.649 --> 00:14:44.250
like, I would even like, you know, like make
00:14:44.250 --> 00:14:49.409
extra hours without need during my apprenticeship
00:14:49.409 --> 00:14:53.850
or doing things that were not required from me,
00:14:53.889 --> 00:14:56.649
but I would do them or work extra days just because
00:14:56.649 --> 00:15:01.139
I wanted to take. as much as I could. But what
00:15:01.139 --> 00:15:04.120
do you think about this, about rejecting something
00:15:04.120 --> 00:15:07.659
or not accepting a position? I've also seen it
00:15:07.659 --> 00:15:11.100
like in other industries where people say, yeah,
00:15:11.139 --> 00:15:13.320
like I just want less responsibility and live
00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:17.320
better and not having all the, you know, I can
00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:20.309
do other things in that time, you know? Yeah,
00:15:20.330 --> 00:15:23.210
I think that's totally fine, honestly. But you
00:15:23.210 --> 00:15:25.509
have to always realize that it goes both ways,
00:15:25.590 --> 00:15:28.789
right? So I think on one side, it's really important
00:15:28.789 --> 00:15:32.450
to not get consumed, right? And to not be a bitch
00:15:32.450 --> 00:15:34.529
to your work. It's really, really important.
00:15:34.610 --> 00:15:37.730
It's something that me and a lot of people that
00:15:37.730 --> 00:15:45.110
I know had to learn later on, right? So I think
00:15:45.110 --> 00:15:47.389
I used to not understand it, right? Because I
00:15:47.389 --> 00:15:50.009
used to always push. So when I saw people who
00:15:50.009 --> 00:15:52.110
just want to clock in, clock out, I used to be
00:15:52.110 --> 00:15:57.090
like, man, why are you here? But I think there's
00:15:57.090 --> 00:16:00.169
absolutely nothing wrong with it. But you also
00:16:00.169 --> 00:16:02.250
have to understand that everything comes with
00:16:02.250 --> 00:16:05.750
a price. So maybe as a chef de partie, you earn
00:16:05.750 --> 00:16:08.970
the same and you work a shift more or two shifts
00:16:08.970 --> 00:16:12.870
more. But I remember a couple of years ago when
00:16:12.870 --> 00:16:14.730
I was working in Dubai, I had a conversation
00:16:14.730 --> 00:16:19.029
with one of the line cooks. And he was sort of
00:16:19.029 --> 00:16:20.789
like, oh, can I ask you a couple of questions
00:16:20.789 --> 00:16:23.509
about your CV and stuff? And I was like, yeah,
00:16:23.509 --> 00:16:25.909
sure, man. Ask away. He was like, yeah, when
00:16:25.909 --> 00:16:27.809
was the first time that you became a sous chef
00:16:27.809 --> 00:16:29.350
and blah? Because I would like to become a sous
00:16:29.350 --> 00:16:32.169
chef one day. And you're so young, you know?
00:16:32.230 --> 00:16:34.830
So I just wonder how you did it. And I told him
00:16:34.830 --> 00:16:36.529
a little bit. He was like, wow, that's crazy,
00:16:36.649 --> 00:16:41.090
you know? But I was like, but yeah, sure. But
00:16:41.090 --> 00:16:43.970
it didn't come from nothing, you know? Like,
00:16:43.990 --> 00:16:47.539
I pushed. I pushed. And I made the sacrifices.
00:16:47.539 --> 00:16:51.460
And for a very long time, work was all I did.
00:16:51.740 --> 00:16:54.299
It was all I did. I didn't mind at all. For me,
00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:56.659
it wasn't like, oh, I have to work so much. All
00:16:56.659 --> 00:16:59.539
I thought about was cooking and restaurants.
00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:03.320
So going to work for me was like a hobby that
00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:06.640
I get paid for, basically. So it's really important
00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:10.500
to maintain personal life and work -life balance.
00:17:10.660 --> 00:17:12.279
It's really super important because otherwise
00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:14.039
you're also going to burn out, even if your job
00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:16.130
is really important to you. nobody's going to
00:17:16.130 --> 00:17:18.390
benefit from you being completely burned out,
00:17:18.450 --> 00:17:20.349
right? But also if you're sort of like, yeah,
00:17:20.349 --> 00:17:22.410
it's more important to me to do other things,
00:17:22.589 --> 00:17:25.809
then you are not really in a position to complain
00:17:25.809 --> 00:17:27.869
afterwards when other people are more ahead,
00:17:28.029 --> 00:17:30.569
right? It doesn't necessarily need to be like
00:17:30.569 --> 00:17:34.109
that. It is possible to acquire and like rise,
00:17:34.309 --> 00:17:36.690
you know, while maintaining a work -life balance,
00:17:36.809 --> 00:17:40.349
but you just have to always be aware that whichever
00:17:40.349 --> 00:17:43.089
way you move, there's always going to be a sacrifice.
00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:47.299
No, and also if you want to, that's also important
00:17:47.299 --> 00:17:49.819
to understand. Like if you want to become like
00:17:49.819 --> 00:17:53.940
a head chef or a sous chef or, you know, like
00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:56.559
climb through the ranks, you have to be proactive.
00:17:56.740 --> 00:17:58.859
You have to do things that are not part of your
00:17:58.859 --> 00:18:04.539
job. If you say that's not my job too many times,
00:18:04.579 --> 00:18:08.519
well, then being ascended is also not your job.
00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:12.279
Because actually being a head chef, you will
00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:16.019
do things that are not in the job description,
00:18:16.339 --> 00:18:19.920
for sure. Things that you could not imagine,
00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:24.839
and it's part of the job. And you need to figure
00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:27.259
out how to solve things that were unexpected
00:18:27.259 --> 00:18:30.519
and have nothing to do with cooking, but just
00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:33.519
need to be done, and somebody has to do it. And
00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:35.740
the head chef is not someone to stay there and
00:18:35.740 --> 00:18:38.299
say, like, oh, that's not my job. I will let
00:18:38.299 --> 00:18:41.660
the house burn because I'm not a fireman. You
00:18:41.660 --> 00:18:44.240
know, like, so I think that's also something
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:46.299
to be taken in consideration. As you mentioned
00:18:46.299 --> 00:18:50.519
a few episodes ago, like, maybe you start taking
00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:55.160
care of the... you know, like of managing orders
00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:59.920
and buying stuff and making the list of supplies
00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:02.660
that need to be acquired. Even if that's not
00:19:02.660 --> 00:19:05.099
your job, people will look at you if you do that,
00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:08.940
you know, like in a positive way. And many little
00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:12.660
things like that are the ones that make you go
00:19:12.660 --> 00:19:15.259
to the next stage, basically. Yeah, totally.
00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.059
I totally agree. Like you need to be proactive,
00:19:18.220 --> 00:19:20.140
but it's also kind of like, what are you proactive
00:19:20.140 --> 00:19:24.650
for, right? Because it's like, well, am I going
00:19:24.650 --> 00:19:27.289
to start supporting my sous -chef with these
00:19:27.289 --> 00:19:29.990
managerial tasks because I want to make a good
00:19:29.990 --> 00:19:32.049
impression? It's kind of like, well, I mean,
00:19:32.089 --> 00:19:35.349
okay, sure, maybe that's an angle. But when I
00:19:35.349 --> 00:19:37.710
did that, I was like, I just want to learn how
00:19:37.710 --> 00:19:41.069
it's done for myself. I want to get the knowledge
00:19:41.069 --> 00:19:42.650
and I want to become better. I want to understand
00:19:42.650 --> 00:19:45.930
how this whole thing runs. And it's sort of like
00:19:45.930 --> 00:19:49.190
you put in a little bit more extra time, a little
00:19:49.190 --> 00:19:51.789
bit more extra effort. But I think that this
00:19:51.789 --> 00:19:54.869
like idea of kind of complacency is sort of like,
00:19:54.950 --> 00:19:56.910
well, like I'm just going to do my shit. And
00:19:56.910 --> 00:19:58.990
then like at some point I'm here for two years
00:19:58.990 --> 00:20:01.190
and I'm sort of like, well, can I get a raise?
00:20:01.289 --> 00:20:03.150
Maybe you get a little raise, you know, because
00:20:03.150 --> 00:20:04.569
you've been there and they want to keep you.
00:20:04.609 --> 00:20:06.650
Maybe you do a good job, but you're kind of like,
00:20:06.690 --> 00:20:08.049
I want a bigger raise. And it's kind of like,
00:20:08.170 --> 00:20:10.529
OK, but for what? You know, like realistically,
00:20:10.650 --> 00:20:13.250
because this is a business, right? This is not
00:20:13.250 --> 00:20:16.410
an infinite money trove. So it's like, what do
00:20:16.410 --> 00:20:19.089
you like? You can have a raise, but like, what
00:20:19.089 --> 00:20:21.819
do you? bring for the extra money that we pay
00:20:21.819 --> 00:20:24.180
you is it just because you've been here for a
00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:25.900
certain amount of time or is there actually a
00:20:25.900 --> 00:20:29.000
value like if i pay you you know 500 quid more
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:34.240
a month um and i'm getting exactly the same you
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:37.680
see how that doesn't work out um and i've had
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:39.039
that a lot of times you know especially with
00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:41.740
sous chefs that have asked for huge raises right
00:20:41.740 --> 00:20:44.349
and i'm sort of like look This is what you do
00:20:44.349 --> 00:20:46.930
at the moment. This is what you get paid for,
00:20:46.990 --> 00:20:49.250
you know? Then you can compare it to the market
00:20:49.250 --> 00:20:52.049
around, right? And you're sort of like, well,
00:20:52.109 --> 00:20:58.390
how do you justify this race? If a head chef,
00:20:58.509 --> 00:21:00.069
you know, you have a head chef in an outlet and
00:21:00.069 --> 00:21:01.250
they're sort of like, I want a race. And you're
00:21:01.250 --> 00:21:02.670
sort of like, okay, cool. Let's look at the numbers.
00:21:03.369 --> 00:21:05.190
Let's look at your manning. Let's look at the
00:21:05.190 --> 00:21:08.269
sales. Let's look at the food cost. If you're
00:21:08.269 --> 00:21:10.609
doing a great job with managing all of that,
00:21:10.940 --> 00:21:13.180
And there's extra revenue. Fucking great, man.
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:15.319
I'll give you a raise. Because you are doing
00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:18.579
the job to generate more profit. So you should
00:21:18.579 --> 00:21:21.079
be able to have some of that. Because then it
00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:23.960
incites you to keep that going, right? It works
00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:27.720
for everybody. I think also if you're young.
00:21:28.170 --> 00:21:32.430
and starting, as you say, like your priority
00:21:32.430 --> 00:21:35.789
should be to have experiences that make you more
00:21:35.789 --> 00:21:40.150
valuable. For example, going to doing a stash
00:21:40.150 --> 00:21:43.289
where you're not paid and not because it looks
00:21:43.289 --> 00:21:45.670
good on your CV, because of the experience that
00:21:45.670 --> 00:21:48.309
you will acquire and the things that you will
00:21:48.309 --> 00:21:51.450
look, at least for me, it helped me a lot what
00:21:51.450 --> 00:21:54.549
I learned in these high -end places. But then
00:21:54.549 --> 00:21:56.789
again, like I was already an established chef.
00:21:56.910 --> 00:22:00.839
I was already, head chef in a restaurant in Berlin.
00:22:01.059 --> 00:22:03.740
And then suddenly I decided to quit everything
00:22:03.740 --> 00:22:08.420
and go to Bolivia and earn a quarter of my salary
00:22:08.420 --> 00:22:12.720
because I saw an opportunity there, which brought
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:15.160
me everything I got after that, you know, like,
00:22:15.220 --> 00:22:18.059
and I did for two years, like with a miserable
00:22:18.059 --> 00:22:22.119
salary. But for me, that was actually like a
00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:24.160
master's degree in restaurant management, what
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:26.529
I did there. You know, like I learned how to
00:22:26.529 --> 00:22:32.690
manage cost and how to lead R &D teams and hire
00:22:32.690 --> 00:22:34.970
people, fire people, like all the things that
00:22:34.970 --> 00:22:40.470
you do in a management position. And those things
00:22:40.470 --> 00:22:43.549
you have to learn by doing. You can't learn that
00:22:43.549 --> 00:22:47.369
in a university or in a YouTube tutorial, you
00:22:47.369 --> 00:22:52.319
know? Absolutely, yeah. Absolutely. You know,
00:22:52.339 --> 00:22:55.460
another thing that, um, actually I, every now
00:22:55.460 --> 00:22:58.920
and again, I have people like, um, over the podcast
00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:02.220
or like chefs that like I work with in proximity
00:23:02.220 --> 00:23:04.180
or whatever, reach out to me. And what a lot
00:23:04.180 --> 00:23:07.960
of people ask is, um, when they're in a certain
00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:10.059
stage of their career, maybe they're starting
00:23:10.059 --> 00:23:12.039
out or they're like in the middle of their career.
00:23:12.059 --> 00:23:14.380
And they're sort of like, Hey, like I need some
00:23:14.380 --> 00:23:16.599
career advice, you know, sort of like, what do
00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:18.769
you think I should do? Should I? Go into fine
00:23:18.769 --> 00:23:20.549
dining? Should I go on a Michelin star? Should
00:23:20.549 --> 00:23:23.549
I go star? Should I like blah, you know, all
00:23:23.549 --> 00:23:27.490
these sort of questions. And then it makes me
00:23:27.490 --> 00:23:30.869
reflect about my own journey that I had. Like
00:23:30.869 --> 00:23:32.529
I said in the beginning, like I'm very lucky
00:23:32.529 --> 00:23:34.690
and I'm very grateful for like how it has been.
00:23:34.789 --> 00:23:37.349
But if I could like go back, I would do things
00:23:37.349 --> 00:23:39.470
differently, you know, and it kind of boils down
00:23:39.470 --> 00:23:44.970
to the same thing. I think that choosing where
00:23:44.970 --> 00:23:48.309
you work. should be given a lot more importance.
00:23:48.509 --> 00:23:50.910
And instead of like going somewhere and trying
00:23:50.910 --> 00:23:53.650
it out and then going away again, I think that
00:23:53.650 --> 00:23:56.630
you should really take into consideration where
00:23:56.630 --> 00:24:00.150
you go and then spend a considerable amount of
00:24:00.150 --> 00:24:03.269
time there. If you can go to 10 different places,
00:24:03.450 --> 00:24:06.869
right, in eight years or in 10 years, in 12 years,
00:24:07.049 --> 00:24:12.250
cut it down to four. Yeah, I think that is a
00:24:12.250 --> 00:24:14.009
massive, massive upgrade if you choose those
00:24:14.009 --> 00:24:17.579
places properly. Like, of course, it's cool to
00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:19.680
like jump around and, you know, get different
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:22.619
experiences. But you can do that by stages, you
00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:26.019
know, here and there. But not a lot of people
00:24:26.019 --> 00:24:29.740
really put foundation into what they learn. And,
00:24:29.740 --> 00:24:32.019
you know, if we're talking about job progression
00:24:32.019 --> 00:24:35.420
and jumping the ranks, people just go too fast.
00:24:35.980 --> 00:24:39.160
They just jump up instead of just being comfortable
00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:43.079
as a commie. really like forget about all that
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:44.960
shit you know it's like in martial arts like
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:47.279
forget about the belts i know you want the next
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:50.859
belt but forget about that forget about the prestige
00:24:50.859 --> 00:24:54.180
forget about the title and just focus on what's
00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:57.039
important you know so if i could do it again
00:24:57.039 --> 00:25:01.200
i would um consider what restaurant i want to
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:05.220
go to for me that would be first at first place
00:25:05.220 --> 00:25:09.380
really high level of craftsmanship in cooking
00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:13.400
close second would be creativity and aesthetics,
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:16.799
right? And then everything else would come after.
00:25:17.059 --> 00:25:19.720
And then I would go there, and I would suck it
00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:21.460
up, and I would stay for three to four years.
00:25:21.859 --> 00:25:26.140
Could you think of specific places for the first
00:25:26.140 --> 00:25:32.500
and the second case? Yes. At the moment, I'm
00:25:32.500 --> 00:25:35.960
a huge fan of Adam Byatt's restaurant, Trinity.
00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:39.539
Okay. I was thinking about St. John, actually.
00:25:40.490 --> 00:25:43.950
Yes, also very, very good example. Amazing. And
00:25:43.950 --> 00:25:46.269
amazing work culture also. If you want to have
00:25:46.269 --> 00:25:48.109
a work -life balance, you know, St. John is fantastic.
00:25:49.150 --> 00:25:51.289
I just went to eat there again a couple of weeks
00:25:51.289 --> 00:25:55.490
ago. And like, it's such a joyous place, honestly.
00:25:55.710 --> 00:25:57.690
I went there by myself. I had a little solo dinner.
00:25:58.049 --> 00:26:01.329
And you sit down, have a glass of wine. The food
00:26:01.329 --> 00:26:03.930
is fantastic. And it's just like you really learn
00:26:03.930 --> 00:26:05.869
how to cook. I think that's the first thing that
00:26:05.869 --> 00:26:07.089
you should worry about. You shouldn't be worried
00:26:07.089 --> 00:26:09.630
about becoming a chef at the party. Nobody really
00:26:09.630 --> 00:26:13.509
gives a fuck. You know how many sous chefs and
00:26:13.509 --> 00:26:17.029
head chefs I have interviewed in the last five
00:26:17.029 --> 00:26:21.230
years? And it, you know, always, almost always
00:26:21.230 --> 00:26:24.269
comes down to they can't cook well enough. They
00:26:24.269 --> 00:26:26.589
don't know how to cook a piece of fish. They
00:26:26.589 --> 00:26:28.109
don't know how to cook a piece of meat. They
00:26:28.109 --> 00:26:30.250
don't know how to make a sauce. They lack the
00:26:30.250 --> 00:26:32.750
fundamentals. I asked them to make a bechamel.
00:26:32.849 --> 00:26:34.939
They don't know what I'm talking about. like
00:26:34.939 --> 00:26:38.680
literally you know you cannot talk to them the
00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:42.819
way that we talk in terms but like for me it's
00:26:42.819 --> 00:26:45.819
kind of like being a carpenter you know like
00:26:45.819 --> 00:26:47.619
imagine being a carpenter you go from one carpenter
00:26:47.619 --> 00:26:49.220
to another and you say hey can you give me i
00:26:49.220 --> 00:26:50.660
don't know sorry i don't know anything about
00:26:50.660 --> 00:26:52.759
carpentry but they're sort of like can you give
00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:55.819
me this and yeah this this and this specific
00:26:55.819 --> 00:26:58.640
shape of nail or saw or let's make this kind
00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:01.359
of wood joint and they're like what and you're
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:04.569
like come on you know From professional to professional,
00:27:04.710 --> 00:27:07.710
we should be able to talk like this. And that
00:27:07.710 --> 00:27:09.329
is the first thing that people should focus on,
00:27:09.349 --> 00:27:11.970
I really believe, because nothing matters as
00:27:11.970 --> 00:27:15.150
much as that. Nothing matters as much as your
00:27:15.150 --> 00:27:17.750
ability. You know how cool it feels to be in
00:27:17.750 --> 00:27:20.269
a kitchen and to be in a junior position and
00:27:20.269 --> 00:27:23.650
to know that your craftsmanship is at a high
00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:25.450
level, that people value you for that? If you're
00:27:25.450 --> 00:27:27.769
like a commie or a demi -chef and you have to
00:27:27.769 --> 00:27:30.109
sue chefs, be sort of like this guy knows how
00:27:30.109 --> 00:27:33.069
to cook. Because you can tell, right? You get
00:27:33.069 --> 00:27:36.930
the street cred. You get the respect. It's amazing.
00:27:37.869 --> 00:27:40.769
Everything else doesn't really matter. Phil,
00:27:40.930 --> 00:27:43.529
do you recommend podcasts to your friends? All
00:27:43.529 --> 00:27:46.319
the time. The best way of showing friends that
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:48.700
you care is recommending a great podcast to listen
00:27:48.700 --> 00:27:51.980
to. I agree. If you're listening right now, you
00:27:51.980 --> 00:27:54.440
should show your love by recommending or show
00:27:54.440 --> 00:27:58.019
to all your best friends. It will make them happy.
00:27:58.059 --> 00:28:01.420
It will make us happy. PopLock Food Talks. Tell
00:28:01.420 --> 00:28:03.579
your friends. It will make the world a better
00:28:03.579 --> 00:28:09.539
place. Can you think of a moment where you had
00:28:09.539 --> 00:28:12.660
a promotion and you were like, oh, shit, now
00:28:12.660 --> 00:28:16.480
what? Man, so many times, and I feel like it
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:19.640
doesn't stop, you know? I have that. I remember
00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:25.019
I got promoted to COO, like director of operations
00:28:25.019 --> 00:28:28.519
in a restaurant. And I was like, okay, great,
00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:31.460
thanks. And I arrived home and I Googled what
00:28:31.460 --> 00:28:34.500
the fuck that was. Yeah, what does that mean?
00:28:34.740 --> 00:28:40.339
I looked at Wikipedia and went, what is a director
00:28:40.339 --> 00:28:43.339
of operations? It's basically head bitch of the
00:28:43.339 --> 00:28:46.160
whole operation. Yeah. Yeah. The guy that gets
00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:47.779
called at three o 'clock in the morning when
00:28:47.779 --> 00:28:50.220
the building's on fire. Exactly. Pretty much.
00:28:50.359 --> 00:28:53.200
Yeah. No, but like lots of times, you know, um,
00:28:54.059 --> 00:28:56.180
lots of times I definitely, that's what I kind
00:28:56.180 --> 00:28:58.500
of was hinting at. I jumped rank too quick, you
00:28:58.500 --> 00:29:01.660
know, when I, when I first became like sous chef,
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:03.619
when I first became head chef, um, especially
00:29:03.619 --> 00:29:06.880
also I was completely in over my head. Um, and
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.819
then, you know, like things scale up. Suddenly
00:29:09.819 --> 00:29:11.819
your team is way bigger. Suddenly you have responsibilities
00:29:11.819 --> 00:29:15.740
that you haven't had before. And you don't want
00:29:15.740 --> 00:29:18.019
to look like an idiot, right? But it's really
00:29:18.019 --> 00:29:20.940
important to kind of put that aside. When you're
00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:23.880
used to working in restaurants that do 50 covers,
00:29:23.980 --> 00:29:26.000
have like 10 people, and then suddenly you jump
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:27.960
and you have a restaurant that does 500 covers
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:30.319
and has 40 people in that team. You're like,
00:29:30.420 --> 00:29:32.099
holy shit, how the fuck am I going to do that?
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:36.740
But it's okay. Other people are doing it as well.
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:39.490
And you're not an idiot, right? This is what
00:29:39.490 --> 00:29:42.549
I used to tell myself. So I'm kind of like, hey,
00:29:42.609 --> 00:29:44.369
there's other people that are doing this, right?
00:29:44.730 --> 00:29:46.789
So I can figure it out. Maybe I don't know right
00:29:46.789 --> 00:29:48.410
now, but I can figure it out. It's not fucking
00:29:48.410 --> 00:29:50.730
rocket science after all, right? It can't be
00:29:50.730 --> 00:29:53.910
that difficult. And bit by bit, you acquire more
00:29:53.910 --> 00:29:56.769
knowledge. But important is that you don't have
00:29:56.769 --> 00:29:59.109
the arrogance of just like assuming or hiding
00:29:59.109 --> 00:30:01.769
that you don't know how to do it, right? I know
00:30:01.769 --> 00:30:03.789
it's kind of like fake it till you make it, but
00:30:03.789 --> 00:30:07.009
there's big strength and confidence that people
00:30:07.009 --> 00:30:11.099
respect in you. being able to own that you don't
00:30:11.099 --> 00:30:14.019
know something because like what's better you
00:30:14.019 --> 00:30:16.680
know you sort of like somebody asked you to make
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:20.039
this you know pastry recipe for 300 portions
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:22.420
for an event you have no idea how to do it and
00:30:22.420 --> 00:30:24.680
you're like okay you do it you fuck it up you
00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:27.180
fucked up 300 portions of whatever right everybody
00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:29.559
is going to be like this fucking idiot but if
00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:32.220
you're sort of like actually to the pastry chef
00:30:32.220 --> 00:30:33.960
who's an expert at this you're sort of like hey
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:36.039
actually i've never done this before can you
00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:37.769
just talk me through it They're going to be like,
00:30:37.789 --> 00:30:39.750
of course, they're going to be like, hey, nice,
00:30:39.809 --> 00:30:41.849
nice that this guy makes sure that it gets done.
00:30:42.069 --> 00:30:44.230
And when you're a head chef, you're not magically
00:30:44.230 --> 00:30:46.609
going to be better at everything than everybody.
00:30:47.009 --> 00:30:49.549
For example, you're not going to be in most cases
00:30:49.549 --> 00:30:53.410
better than the pastry chef in pastries. A million
00:30:53.410 --> 00:30:56.150
percent because they're an expert. Yeah. But
00:30:56.150 --> 00:30:58.710
like being able to own that, it's going to make
00:30:58.710 --> 00:31:02.490
you, it's going to be a huge improvement to you
00:31:02.490 --> 00:31:04.509
as a manager. Also, when your team comes to you,
00:31:04.549 --> 00:31:05.750
they're sort of like, hey, how about this? How
00:31:05.750 --> 00:31:09.799
about that? Just like being open to that, owning
00:31:09.799 --> 00:31:13.579
mistakes and adjusting, which only requires you
00:31:13.579 --> 00:31:16.539
to lower your ego a little bit, is going to benefit
00:31:16.539 --> 00:31:19.619
you and the team, the environment, and the quality
00:31:19.619 --> 00:31:22.140
of everything that you do as a huge, huge asset.
00:31:22.660 --> 00:31:26.180
By the way, you didn't mention second restaurant.
00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:29.480
First was like craft, craftsmanship restaurant.
00:31:29.579 --> 00:31:35.240
Second, like aesthetics and creativity. I think
00:31:35.240 --> 00:31:38.160
that it's really important to, at some point,
00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:42.200
it depends what you want to do, right? But if
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:45.119
you want to understand restaurants and hospitality
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:49.440
as a business, you need to go somewhere where
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:52.420
they do business. And with do business, I mean,
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.079
they run a business to make money, you know?
00:31:56.430 --> 00:31:58.430
you know, capitalists and yay or nay, it doesn't
00:31:58.430 --> 00:32:00.750
matter, but it's, it's the world we live in.
00:32:00.849 --> 00:32:02.549
And at the end of the day, the money that comes
00:32:02.549 --> 00:32:04.809
in that you generate is the freedom that you
00:32:04.809 --> 00:32:07.970
create for your workplace, right? Sort of like
00:32:07.970 --> 00:32:09.470
the equipment that you have, the maintenance,
00:32:09.670 --> 00:32:12.529
the quality of ingredients, the amount of people
00:32:12.529 --> 00:32:15.269
that you are able to hire, right? It creates,
00:32:15.309 --> 00:32:18.230
um, you know, quality of life in your workplace,
00:32:18.349 --> 00:32:20.269
but it's just super important, you know? So like
00:32:20.269 --> 00:32:22.750
go somewhere where that is a skillset that you
00:32:22.750 --> 00:32:24.829
can learn ideally with people that you know.
00:32:25.549 --> 00:32:29.130
You know, like I at some point took a job where
00:32:29.130 --> 00:32:31.609
that is basically the main thing that I learned.
00:32:32.289 --> 00:32:36.750
And it was a huge eye -opener to me. And it's
00:32:36.750 --> 00:32:38.609
followed me around. And like the stuff that I
00:32:38.609 --> 00:32:40.849
do now, you know, which is restaurant consultancy
00:32:40.849 --> 00:32:44.410
and product development and, you know, operational
00:32:44.410 --> 00:32:48.450
quality improvement in businesses. I would have
00:32:48.450 --> 00:32:50.569
never been able to do that if I hadn't spent
00:32:50.569 --> 00:32:54.390
those two years. like running an operation that
00:32:54.390 --> 00:32:59.109
thousands of covers every week with a huge team,
00:32:59.230 --> 00:33:02.289
where you're also a force to learn to treat people
00:33:02.289 --> 00:33:04.450
differently, where you have to sit down with
00:33:04.450 --> 00:33:07.930
them and you have to be sort of like, hey, what
00:33:07.930 --> 00:33:12.089
do you need from us? So I'm able to talk about
00:33:12.089 --> 00:33:15.750
what I need from you because it's not just me
00:33:15.750 --> 00:33:18.950
asking. It's a give and a take situation, right?
00:33:19.309 --> 00:33:22.160
And being able to be sensitive about it. while
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:24.700
managing everything else. It's not easy, man.
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:26.940
It's a difficult job, but it's something that
00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:30.460
you have to learn. Yeah, but I thought you mentioned
00:33:30.460 --> 00:33:33.339
like Adam Bayat's option number one, which was
00:33:33.339 --> 00:33:36.400
like a very crafty restaurant. And then you said
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:39.740
like an aesthetic and creative one. By the way,
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:41.599
all of the things that you just mentioned about
00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:46.079
a place or an organization to become like, to
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:48.730
understand. businesses properly and everything.
00:33:49.049 --> 00:33:51.529
I have to think about Mayer's hospitality group,
00:33:51.690 --> 00:33:55.089
not Klaus Mayer, Danny Mayer, the New Yorker,
00:33:55.089 --> 00:33:57.670
not the Danish. I mean, the Danish probably also
00:33:57.670 --> 00:34:00.309
as well. I think that's a place for that, a place
00:34:00.309 --> 00:34:08.150
to understand the business. But yeah, like if
00:34:08.150 --> 00:34:11.690
you would be an apprentice now and you have to
00:34:11.690 --> 00:34:14.030
learn everything, you have amnesia and you have
00:34:14.030 --> 00:34:17.010
to learn about creativity. You only remember
00:34:17.010 --> 00:34:19.329
the name of the places, like which, which one
00:34:19.329 --> 00:34:22.489
would you pick to go to, to learn some creativity
00:34:22.489 --> 00:34:26.510
or aesthetics or. There's a, there's a couple
00:34:26.510 --> 00:34:28.829
of places, right? So like, I think that, you
00:34:28.829 --> 00:34:32.190
know, um, that what I mentioned at a bias restaurant,
00:34:32.269 --> 00:34:34.489
Trinity combines the two things. I think that
00:34:34.489 --> 00:34:36.730
is a place where you really learn how to cook.
00:34:36.809 --> 00:34:39.710
You really learned techniques, but you also learn
00:34:39.710 --> 00:34:43.150
finesse and creativity and aesthetics. Like,
00:34:43.170 --> 00:34:44.730
I think it's a, it's a beautiful place. If you
00:34:44.730 --> 00:34:46.780
pick a place like that, you know, apache used
00:34:46.780 --> 00:34:48.880
to be like that nowadays i'm not so sure anymore
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:52.659
or la strance you know you i'm 100 sure you learn
00:34:52.659 --> 00:34:54.920
technique but you learn aesthetic as well and
00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:56.860
there's places that do amazing work like i'm
00:34:56.860 --> 00:34:59.639
still a big fan of saison you know now it's changed
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:01.519
a lot but there it's kind of like if it's something
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:03.599
you're into you know if you have spent a couple
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:07.019
of years um learning technique in a place like
00:35:07.019 --> 00:35:09.880
that very classic fundamentals don't underestimate
00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:12.320
the classic fundamentals they're so valuable
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:15.780
so so valuable even in modern cooking And then
00:35:15.780 --> 00:35:18.199
you go somewhere to deepen interest, right? Maybe
00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:19.880
you're into fire cooking, open fire cooking.
00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:23.119
So you go to Saison, you go to Instage at Echebari.
00:35:23.260 --> 00:35:24.960
Maybe you can get a foot in the door, right?
00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:27.820
That's going to catapult you way further. Already
00:35:27.820 --> 00:35:31.199
with those two things, you have many years. And
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:33.679
I'm not talking about one to two years. Because,
00:35:33.739 --> 00:35:36.699
again, don't underestimate it. After one year,
00:35:36.739 --> 00:35:38.519
year and a half, you're only scratching the surface.
00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:43.219
A place like that, three years, easy. Easy. And
00:35:43.219 --> 00:35:47.079
then you deepen that. by another input and then
00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:52.699
but this also requires you to be fully conscious
00:35:52.699 --> 00:35:54.760
of what you're interested in so obviously not
00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:57.480
everybody has that when they just start out you
00:35:57.480 --> 00:36:00.000
know maybe they need to find that out so it doesn't
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:01.719
just like i'm not saying oh you have to do this
00:36:01.719 --> 00:36:03.159
from the very beginning otherwise it doesn't
00:36:03.159 --> 00:36:05.760
make sense but even if you're like five six years
00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:07.679
in cooking you know and you've been here you've
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.059
been there and you want to be really serious
00:36:10.059 --> 00:36:13.909
fucking do it take that moment It doesn't matter
00:36:13.909 --> 00:36:16.489
how old you are. And be sort of like, now. Now
00:36:16.489 --> 00:36:18.969
is the time. And really make a sound choice.
00:36:19.130 --> 00:36:21.630
Go there and get your fundamentals right. And
00:36:21.630 --> 00:36:24.349
it's going to catapult you ahead of so many people.
00:36:25.730 --> 00:36:27.789
So, again, sorry to circle back to your question.
00:36:27.889 --> 00:36:31.210
I would go to Trinity a couple of years. Then
00:36:31.210 --> 00:36:32.949
I would go to somewhere like that, Echebarri
00:36:32.949 --> 00:36:36.469
Saint -Jean. Saison, sorry. There's a really
00:36:36.469 --> 00:36:38.489
cool restaurant in London now called Impala.
00:36:38.489 --> 00:36:41.349
It's also kind of like the thing, you know. broaden
00:36:41.349 --> 00:36:43.289
your horizon a little bit, maybe different ingredients,
00:36:43.369 --> 00:36:45.989
different that, and then go somewhere where you
00:36:45.989 --> 00:36:49.329
learn business, you know, restaurant group, you
00:36:49.329 --> 00:36:52.010
know, like, you know, the quality is lesser,
00:36:52.050 --> 00:36:55.369
but like the Le Petit Maison group, do like two
00:36:55.369 --> 00:36:58.150
years there. In any city, there are good restaurant
00:36:58.150 --> 00:37:00.329
groups. The thing is, these are not the places
00:37:00.329 --> 00:37:02.550
that appear in magazines with the chef on the
00:37:02.550 --> 00:37:05.769
cover or anything. But a restaurant group is
00:37:05.769 --> 00:37:08.849
definitely the place to get all those things
00:37:08.849 --> 00:37:12.409
right, like costing and systems and all those
00:37:12.409 --> 00:37:16.789
things, because they replicate systems to all
00:37:16.789 --> 00:37:21.619
of the restaurants. They don't even... Even though
00:37:21.619 --> 00:37:24.420
that restaurants have autonomy in many regards
00:37:24.420 --> 00:37:27.599
in a restaurant group, especially in identity
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:32.239
and sometimes even the internal culture of the
00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:34.019
specific restaurant, it's not the same from one
00:37:34.019 --> 00:37:37.380
to another. But systems, that's for sure the
00:37:37.380 --> 00:37:40.119
same, straight, transversal, you know, like.
00:37:40.260 --> 00:37:44.139
Yeah, for sure. And like replicable, you know,
00:37:44.179 --> 00:37:47.099
like the same core fundamentals that you just
00:37:47.099 --> 00:37:48.659
discussed, you know, you can just take them and
00:37:48.659 --> 00:37:51.300
do them anywhere in the world. I think, you know,
00:37:51.340 --> 00:37:54.099
it's really easy. It's way too easy in this day
00:37:54.099 --> 00:37:56.840
and age to get lost in all the different possibilities,
00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:00.260
the like choice fatigue, right? Oh, this is cool.
00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:02.019
That is cool. Especially with social media, you
00:38:02.019 --> 00:38:03.519
know, you see things you're like, man, that would
00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:05.280
be amazing. That is cool. I'm interested in this.
00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:07.559
I'm interested in that. But there is something
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.980
to be said about consistency, you know, consistency
00:38:10.980 --> 00:38:16.079
of like what you what really matters is so fucking
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:17.780
valuable. It's like Bruce Lee said, you know,
00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:20.690
it's like. I don't fear the man who practiced
00:38:20.690 --> 00:38:23.869
a thousand kicks one time, but I fear the man
00:38:23.869 --> 00:38:26.550
who practiced one kick a thousand times. And
00:38:26.550 --> 00:38:30.170
I think that is really, really true. And it's
00:38:30.170 --> 00:38:33.989
very easy to get lost in all this amount of things
00:38:33.989 --> 00:38:37.250
that you could do. But I would recommend anybody
00:38:37.250 --> 00:38:39.969
to sit down, whether you're in your career or
00:38:39.969 --> 00:38:41.710
in your business or whatever, sit down, make
00:38:41.710 --> 00:38:45.550
a couple of milestones that you want to achieve
00:38:45.550 --> 00:38:49.070
and just stick to them. Stick to them and work
00:38:49.070 --> 00:38:50.889
them off. So if you do that with the examples
00:38:50.889 --> 00:38:53.250
I read it, you know, learn how to cook. Spend
00:38:53.250 --> 00:38:55.469
three years in a place where you really learn
00:38:55.469 --> 00:38:57.829
how to cook. Spend two years in a place that
00:38:57.829 --> 00:39:00.309
you think is aesthetically amazing. Spend two
00:39:00.309 --> 00:39:02.309
years in a place that you think does really good
00:39:02.309 --> 00:39:05.409
business, right? Even if like some aspects of
00:39:05.409 --> 00:39:06.869
it are kind of shitty and you're like, well,
00:39:06.889 --> 00:39:08.869
maybe the ingredients are not the best. That's
00:39:08.869 --> 00:39:11.269
not what you're there for. Once you do your own
00:39:11.269 --> 00:39:12.829
thing, you can choose the ingredients. You dare
00:39:12.829 --> 00:39:16.429
to learn a skill set, right? You do that, man.
00:39:16.889 --> 00:39:19.329
You saw it. You're flying. You're ready for anything.