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Welcome to Positively Parenthood, the podcast, your one-stop shop for non-judgmental, kind and knowledge-backed parenting advice to help you thrive rather than just survive on your parenting journey.
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I do hope you enjoy listening and find it helpful on this crazy roller coaster that we call Parented.
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Remember, listen to your guts and do what sits right for you.
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Your family, your way.
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So a massive hello and welcome back to the first episode.
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I'm back.
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Long time coming.
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And life has certainly changed significantly since I last recorded.
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COVID, lockdown.
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I used to run up to my bedroom every Sunday morning whilst my husband coped with two small children, my two boys at the time.
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And that's entirely not possible now.
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But here I am in my office with my three children at home.
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And yeah, life is suddenly all a bit chaotic.
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But so many of you listened to my last podcast.
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I think in the end we hit something like 300,000 lessons which is just simply crazy.
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That's a third of a million, which blows my mind.
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So I am back.
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The Parent and Baby Coach podcasts are no more.
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They are gone, but I am here now with Positively Parenthood the Podcast to update my advice, give you even more advice, and of course continue to support you on your parenting journey.
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So what can we expect second time over?
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Now this time over, I wanted to make sure that the episodes are short, sweet, and full of lots of brilliant advice that you can implement almost immediately.
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For those of you that have catnappers, which is a huge proportion of our client base quite often, in the back of my mind, I kind of want to ensure that this podcast is easy to listen to in that time so that you can get all of the information you need.
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So that is my goal.
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Let's see if I stick to it, but that is my goal.
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Not only that, I also wanted to make sure that there was time to hear from you guys too.
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So whilst I love a podcast and I love the expert interviews, I do sort of feel like it's often the same people getting to talk about their experiences as a parent or as an expert, which is of course amazing, but it also misses out on you guys, our community.
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So on this podcast, I want to hear from you.
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I will be speaking to celebrities and experts, but I also want to be talking to you guys as well.
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Proving that no matter what your job, credentials, career name, tag on Instagram, all parents experience the exact same challenges and difficulties.
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I hope you enjoy this first episode.
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Before we start, I wanted to say a huge thank you to our sponsor of this podcast, Glow Dreaming.
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Glow Dreaming are a brand that I have been working with for this last year.
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Their sleep easy devices make sleep scientifically better for babies and toddlers alike.
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So do head to glowdreaming.com to see their entire range of products and use code HID10 for 10% off.
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So are we ready?
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Let's delve into our very first topic on our very first episode of Positively Parenthood the Podcast, and that is drum roll please, early morning waking.
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Now, I have been talking about this podcast coming back for a couple of weeks now.
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I have done various polls on social media, and although I sort of wanted to start with another topic, if I'm totally honest, the overriding most common topic that you kept clicking on, you kept wanting to hear about is early morning waking.
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So here we are.
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Let's first talk about what an early wake is.
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This can be, I guess if you like, potentially slightly controversial at times.
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Okay, so in our world, we class an early wake as anything before 6 a.m.
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So if your little one, and we are talking babies and toddlers today, if your little one is say six months and up and they are waking before 6 a.m., I would be very surprised if you can't move that slightly later after having tried some of the things that I'm going to run through in this podcast.
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Now, every family is totally different, and that's why we don't discount anyone who wants to work on early waking, even if their waking is say 6, 6.15, 6.30, because for some people that still feels really early for them too.
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So if you are here with a little one who's maybe waking at 6.15 and you'd like it to be a little later, what we don't do is we never promise 7.
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Okay, we don't promise that you can always get like a sort of seventh or seven baby or toddler because not all babies will sleep that long.
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However, what I do know is lots of these tips work no matter what time your baby's waking.
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So whether they're waking at five or six, generally speaking, there's still stuff you can work on.
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And if by now you probably know me, but if you don't, you will know that one of my biggest, I guess, mottos, if you like, is that knowledge is power.
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I don't normalize things, I don't tend to just sort of go, well, that's just what they need, or that's just how they are.
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I believe there's so much more to sleep than often meets the eye.
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And actually, I can give you this information and you can take what you wish, and that's what's so important.
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If the idea of going through all of this stresses you out, just work on acceptance of what time your baby or toddler is waking currently.
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However, if you're here going, tell me more, I want to move this time from say 5.30 to 6.30, then absolutely stay tuned because I'm going to run you through the most common reasons for early waking in both babies and toddlers.
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The very first reason for early waking seems to be a word that gets a really bad press right now.
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I have noticed on social media that the word overtiredness is now basically kind of become very negative, and people have become quite dismissive of it potentially, or this notion that it's sort of overused and shouldn't be talked about as much, or it's not really a thing for so many babies.
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In our experience at Positively Parenthood, and just so you know, that experience for me is 15 years of doing sleep consultancy.
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In my vast experience, in around about, I would say 75% of cases, it's over-tiredness versus under-tiredness.
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Okay, so that is why if you look at our Q ⁇ A's, things like that, or even when we work with our clients, the first thing we'll often try is an earlier bedtime rather than a later one.
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And that is because most of the time it makes the biggest difference.
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It's not just information plucked from the air.
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Okay, it does make a huge difference for lots of babies and toddlers.
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So what's happening if they're overtired?
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When we get to sort of the early hours of the morning, let's say 4, 4:30, 5, 5, 15, what the body is doing is starting to wake us up for the daytime very slowly by producing cortisol, which is our stress hormone, but also our daytime hormone.
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Okay, so cortisol is not just bad, and actually we need it to function in the daytime.
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So when they're waking early, the reason that overtiredness can feed into that is because if they're already going to bed overtired, then when that level rises in the morning, they're more likely to wake because that sort of cortisol is waking them earlier than it otherwise would be if they weren't so tired.
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So what we're seeing is if they're not getting enough day sleep or if they're going to bed too late, they may well actually be waking earlier rather than later.
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So it goes completely against the trend.
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I totally appreciate that if you put them to bed later, they'll wake up later.
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Most parents have tried that, and most parents will know that not to be the case, unless, of course, the genuine reason is undertiredness, which we're not discounting.
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That is the case for some babies and toddlers, but in most situations that we encounter, overtiredness is one of the main variables of early waking.
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So, how do we counteract that?
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How do we improve that wake-up time by looking at overtiredness?
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So the first thing to think about is tweaking bedtime.
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Okay, so we're looking at bedtime and going, well, if they're waking at 6 and they're going to bed at 7, what would happen if I put them to bed at 6.45 or 6.30?
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I would say you need to move bedtime by at least 15 minutes.
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And if you're feeling really brave, I'd do half an hour earlier.
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And we also need to do this for at least four or five days, normally up to a week, to see a difference.
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And this is why it's really hard because if you put them to bed earlier and then they wake earlier, you go, well, that didn't work.
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But we have to stick at it for at least five days, ideally seven.
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And sometimes it's not early enough.
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So for example, if you did 645 and that didn't work, I'd try 630.
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Okay, so it's all about trial and error, but it is also about consistency.
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And I totally appreciate being so tired and so desperate how hard that is to achieve.
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But if you want to look at your little ones' over-tiredness and make a difference, I would highly consider thinking about over-tiredness as one of the very first variables to look into.
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And then we also want to think about daytime sleep too.
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And obviously, daytime sleep plays both into over and under-tiredness because if they're having too much sleep in the day, they might be less likely to sleep for the length you want them to at night time and therefore wake earlier.
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But at the same time, what we're saying is if they're not having enough sleep, they could also be overtired and waking early.
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So for daytime sleep needs, I'd highly recommend heading to our online courses, the baby sleep course, the toddler sleep course, because in those courses we have our routines that are jammed-packed, full of all the information you need to sort sleep, to settle sleep down, to have amazing restful nights and nice long naps.
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And what we include in those courses is our routines.
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Okay, so how much sleep per age.
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But what we're looking at is quite often you'll get early waking when there's a nap transition happening.
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So, for example, generally speaking, three to two naps happens around about six to eight months of age.
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So if you're in that age bracket and your little one is waking early, could it be that you need to speed up that nap transition process?
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Okay, so they might be ready for two naps.
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If they're having a third nap and it's too late in the day, that could be causing the early waking.
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Speaking from experience with my daughter who is currently coming up to 16 months, she's in the two to one nap transition.
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And albeit I know she can go through the day with one nap now, there are definitely days where either I have a meeting and I have to put her down at 9.30 for a morning nap, or she wakes a little bit earlier than maybe I'd like, because for example, on nursery days, I often put her to bed at 6 or 6.15.
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She's so exhausted, which clearly then means she'll be up at 6 the next day.
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So instead of making her go 6am till 7 pm with just the one nap, I will do a morning nap.
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However, what I do know with the morning nap is if she has it and I give her anything over, say, 20 to 30 minutes.
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So if I'm stuck on a phone call and I end up giving her an hour at 16 months, then I know the next day she does tend to wake up earlier.
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But I tend to take that on the chin and I tend to just decide, well, do you know what?
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I'm cool with the early waking the next day because I need to do the meeting today.
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So that's just a really good example of how that two to one nap transition can cause early wakes, as can the three to two nap transition, the two to one, and of course the one to zero.
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Okay, so when they drop their nap completely, generally after a few weeks, it's not uncommon for them to start waking early.
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And that is due to the buildup of overtiredness, which is why we so often talk about going to bed early or trying an earlier bedtime, because it honestly does make a huge difference, I'd say, in about 75% of family case studies that we work on.
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Another potential reason for early waking, and it's one that we see a lot or we see improvement with a lot of the time when we work on this, is your baby or toddler's ability to fall to sleep independently, so on their own.
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Now, settling to sleep and having your support is never a problem.
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So if you enjoy doing that cuddle, or maybe you feed to sleep and you've got a smaller one, or even a bigger one, to be honest with you, then this is not, you know, there's no rush to change that.
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I think it's really important that you do what works for you, your family, your way.
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However, if we have a scenario where we have a little one who is waking up early, and generally speaking, with early waking, they'll also have night wakes, then the first thing, one of the first things we will look at after we've ensured that they are comfortable, and I'll come on to that later, is their ability to settle to sleep on their own.
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So are they falling asleep on their own in the evening?
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Now, those babies, those toddlers who fall asleep on their own in the evening, in our experience are more likely to do less night wakes and less early waking.
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This is something that if you said, for example, they're waking at 10, 12, 2, and then they're up at 5 a.m., then that to me wouldn't just be an early wakes kind of issue, if you like, because there's also night waking going on, which would mean we'd probably need to work on everything at the same time.
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So what we look at is their ability to settle to sleep and can they do it on their own?
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Now, if you have no other night wakes and it's just early waking, then if you choose to work on settling to sleep, what I would just say is you have to cover off all bases.
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Because what I don't want you to do is think, right, I'm going to go away and teach them to self-settle and the early waking will stop.
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Because if that early waking is related to actually their daytime sleep rather than their settling ability or their tummies, then that won't improve things.
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Okay, and this is why when you're working on sleep, you have to be in the right position.
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Most of the time, it's an emotional readiness on your part to undertake some form of sleep coaching if you're working on settling.
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But it's worth pointing out that their ability to settle to sleep is one of the potential reasons that we see that can feed into early morning waking.
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Now, let's talk about what actually happens when our body starts to stir, starts to wake us for the day.
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So let's say those hormones are rising, okay, that cord soul is increasing, our sleep starts to become very light in the early hours of the morning.
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Now, what that means is if there's anything else going on around us or our environment is not quite right, then we're more likely to wake up.
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So that would mean, for example, light coming in.
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And if you're listening to this as it launches, you'll know that it's summertime and we're very close to the longest day of the year, which means that it's insanely light at almost well, 3:30 a.m.
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I was up the other night, and I was a bit like, wow, it could just be the beginning of the day now.
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So it's incredibly light, and that can also impact our body's sort of sleep as well, because what we want to do is what our bodies like doing rather is sleeping in nice dark environments.
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So if there is a lot of light coming in, or if the blinds aren't really working properly, or the curtains aren't closed, or they're closed but they're very thin, you might find that they're more likely to wake when it starts to get lighter, which is why we believe that blackout is an essential sleep product for babies and toddlers.
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And all the best hotels will have blackout for the right reasons because they know you sleep better, they want you to sleep better.
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If you sleep well at that hotel, you're more likely to recommend it and go again.
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So they're not stupid, and it's exactly the same for us and for our babies and our toddlers.
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Okay, so have a think about the lights.
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I wouldn't go as crazy as taping up every single crack of light.
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That said, some children are more sensitive to light than others.
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So it's worth thinking about.
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And although it's not winter currently, it might be for some of you listening to this at a later date.
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And we also need to think about temperature.
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Are they cold?
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Let's say because the heating hasn't kicked in yet, or is the heating clicking on and it's making too much noise?
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Okay, so that's why the white noise, the pink noise that you can choose to use has a massive benefit in terms of helping them stay asleep.
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And you can have a look at, like I said at the beginning, the glow dreaming sleep easy is a great product because it has that pink noise that helps aid deeper sleep.
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So it's worth thinking about something like that in your baby or toddler's room in order to help them sleep a little bit longer in the mornings.
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Now, quite often, what can happen with early waking is it can be triggered by a nap transition, or I'll come on to Tommies in a second, but it can be triggered by something, but then it can very quickly become habits, it can become the body clock just starts to wake up then and get used to it.
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And it can also become that they start to realize that when they wake up, they get a thing, something that happens, and that might be a milk feed, that quite often with um older babies or toddlers can be coming into your bed, maybe putting the TV on or the iPad on or watching something on your phone whilst you doze.
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And I have three children, I can totally understand how tempting that is, and there is absolutely no right or wrong when it comes to screen time and what you want to do with your children.
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However, what I would say is if they're used to that and they know it's going to happen, that in itself can reinforce the early waking.
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Okay, so short of babies who are in need of a feed because they actually need the calories, so those smaller babies, let's say under six months, if they are say a 10-month-old and you know that they don't need a night feed, but they're being fed at say 4:30 or 5 and go back to sleep, at that age, then I would question: has that just become a habit?
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Is that just reinforced because they know they get fed but they don't actually need it?
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And the same goes for coming into your bed if they're a toddler and, for example, watching the iPad.
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Now, this can be painful to fix, right?
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It's it's no magic fix.
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If you decide tomorrow, actually we won't do TV in bed at 5 a.m., you will have some sort of kickback.
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Okay, and this is where quite often we do end up using our sleep coaching approaches that you can find on our online courses, because what we need to do is say, right, if we're not going to feed them, if we're not gonna bring them into our bed, let's keep settling them in their room until what we call our cut-off time.
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So our cutoff time is a time that we agree that is realistic for them to stay in bed until.
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And I would suggest that is 6 a.m., depending on their bedtime.
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Okay, so if they're going down at 7, I would say 6 a.m.
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is a fair cut-off time.
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Now, not every child will sleep for 11 to 12 hours, but in our experience, if you're getting all of these variables in line, then it's very unusual not to make 10 and a half, 11 hours at night time for the people that we work with.
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That's our one-to-one clients, okay.
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So I would say aim for that amount of time, make sure bedtime's at the right time.
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We've talked about earlier bedtimes, later bedtimes, etc.
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And then look at is there something that's happening when they wake up that could be causing them to wake early that I, as a parent, am happy not to do anymore to see if that helps with the early waking.
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Now, this really is a whistle stop tour of early morning waking, and please do keep your eyes peeled on our website because we do regular early morning waking webinars, and those are super helpful to run through all of this information in much more detail.
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But what I want to come on to now is two final reasons for possible early waking.
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Now, one I've mentioned already, but I haven't delved into it into too much information, and that is because it is less common as a reason, and that is undertiredness.
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Okay, so sometimes they're waking early simply because they're going to bed too early, and it's as simple as that.
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So you just need to start putting them to bed a little bit later.
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And in that process, what tends to happen is let's say they're an 11 hour baby or a toddler, okay?
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Putting them to bed at 7 or 6 30 because you've been trying early bed.
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So let's say you're at 6 30 bedtime, but then they're waking at 5 30.
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Okay, that's 11 hours.
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That's a really good sleep.
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So, what might be more beneficial is to push that bedtime more towards 7, 7.15, 7:30.
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So that you do get your six, your 6.15, your 6:30.
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Okay, so sometimes it is just a matter of pushing out bedtime.
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:29.440
And like I said, generally speaking, with our one-to-one clients, and I obviously can't account for everyone else here, but when we work one-on-one with our clients, generally we tend to get at least 10 and a half hour nights, if not 11 to 12.
00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:36.559
So what I'm sort of suggesting here is it is possible, and you don't just have to accept that that's just the length that they sleep.
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:51.200
However, if we're caught in the cycle of thinking it was overtiredness, putting them down early, and they're still waking early or they're waking earlier, in some cases, I would say a good sort of 25% of the time, rough percentage there, it's undertiredness.
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:57.039
Okay, so under-tiredness means they need to go to bed later or they need to have less daytime sleep.
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:00.640
Now, my very final reason for early waking.
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:02.960
And to be honest, it's my favourite.
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:08.880
And I've left it for the end on purpose because I feel like a lot of you want really practical information.
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:10.240
You want to know what to do.
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:11.599
Tick, tick, tick.
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:15.119
It's almost like a checklist, an early morning waking checklist in a podcast.
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:16.640
Tried all of those things.
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:28.079
If you're still at the end here thinking, I've tried it all, I've done everything, I just cannot move past the 4:30, the 5, the 5.15 start, then what I would say to you is be curious.
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:46.160
Open your eyes, open your ears to being really, really curious about what else is going on in your little one's body with their physiology and trying to understand whether there's anything else that could be impacting their body's ability to stay asleep when their hormones start to try and wake them up for the day.
00:23:46.720 --> 00:24:05.519
So, for example, right now, my daughter is full of snot and she has this horrible greeny-yellow, and I'm really hoping it's not an infection, but horrible snot, which means that her normal seven o'clock wake up for the last three, four days since she's had this cough and snot has been 6.20, 6.22 today, if you like.
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:10.319
And I can hear she's snuffling on and off from about five.
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:13.519
And when I pick her out of her cot at 6.20, she is full of it.
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:14.640
She's full of snot.
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:20.799
And I know that normally she sleeps later, but there's something right now that's impacting her ability to stay asleep.
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:27.519
It's not pain, it's just very mild discomfort or something that's just annoying her body.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:35.359
And the same would go for if your little one had some kind of illness or teething.
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:38.000
Okay, so illness and teething can cause early waking.
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:49.680
However, if the early waking is consistent and hasn't stopped once the tooth has come through or the illness has disappeared, then we want to look at whether there's something underlying that's causing them to be a lighter sleeper.
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:53.759
And there's two main things here, and these things I will cover in future podcasts.
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:57.279
And one is the way in which they breathe.
00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:06.160
Okay, so if they breathe through their mouth at nighttime, they have their mouth open, they snore, they catch flies, they dribble.
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:12.640
I speak from experience because I've done all of these things in my life until recently when I've sort of self-corrected myself.
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:16.240
But if they are a mouth breather, generally their sleep is lighter.
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:20.400
So therefore, we find that those mouth breathers are often earlier risers.
00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:22.720
Now, what can you do about mouth breathing?
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:24.160
Nothing today.
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:28.079
Okay, you can't make any changes to mouth breathing overnight.
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:31.279
However, we can look at the reason for mouth breathing.
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:37.200
So keep an eye on future podcasts because I will be doing an episode on mouth breathing and what you can do to help.
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:43.119
The second reason is tummy gut digestion related.
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:50.240
Okay, so if they are, and I have a whole list of things, and again, I could talk about this forever.
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:55.359
It's become somewhat of a specialism in my job, in my career as a sleep coach.
00:25:55.440 --> 00:26:16.480
But this is if their tummy is not that happy, if they are overloaded in terms of had too much food for dinner that night, or too much milk before bed, or even are still having too many night feeds, that can cause their digestive system to wake and start trying to digest that food earlier than maybe if it was a little bit more empty or empty full stop.
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:22.559
Okay, so we find that too much food, overfeeding, too many night feeds can cause early waking.
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:45.200
And we also know that an unhappy gut, an unhappy tummy, for example, if your little one has an undiagnosed sensitivity to certain food groups, could be an allergy, could be a delayed allergy, could be an intolerance, but ultimately, regardless of what it is, if their gut is a bit sort of sensitive or on edge, then it can mean that they can be more likely to wake early.
00:26:45.440 --> 00:27:02.799
We see a lot of toddlers who are early wakers and we look at the different variables, look at what they've done, they go away and they look at exclusions, and quite often, often enough for me to talk about this, they take out, for example, dairy, they give probiotics, and that early waking disappears.
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:05.359
Okay, it's a huge topic.
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:09.759
And it's not one really that I can troubleshoot just on a podcast.
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:10.480
It's really hard.
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:14.400
I need to know more about your baby, how they were born, how your pregnancy was.
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:20.880
But what I'm saying here, I suppose, is it's very unusual that we just accept that's just how they are.
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:27.359
They're just an early waker, they just have low sleep needs because there's so much more to sleep than we realise.
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:34.000
And when we open our eyes and open our minds and our thoughts towards could it be something else?
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:35.839
Could it be that they are a mouth breather?
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:38.559
Could it be that there's something going on with their little tummy?
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:48.319
It doesn't mean that they're in pain, you don't have to feel bad for missing it or not knowing about this, but there's often something else underlying, okay?
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:54.640
And I will explore all of these topics in so much more detail in future podcasts.
00:27:54.880 --> 00:28:03.680
But in the meantime, I hope this has given you food for thought, something to take away, and I look forward to being with you again for episode two.
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:17.039
So today I'm joined by amazing Chloe, who is, well, you can tell me, Chloe, what you'd like to be called, but most importantly, is a mother.
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:22.559
And she's also an incredible online fitness coach who supports a whole community of other women.
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:26.079
So a perfect first guest for me on my very first podcast.
00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:27.279
Welcome, Chloe.
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:28.000
Hi!
00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:38.240
I know it sounds so cheesy and cliche, and I'm sure a lot of people roll their eyes because I am very much a career woman, but I do, since I've had Bodhi, I do kind of identify most as being like Bodhi's mom.
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:43.680
Which, if you told me would have happened even when I was pregnant, I would have rolled my eyes and like been like, ugh, as if.
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:49.039
But it's my number one kind of, I guess, priority in life, and therefore it is my title now.
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:49.680
Exactly.
00:28:49.759 --> 00:29:10.000
And that's the whole point of this podcast is to show people that no matter your title, your Instagram handle, whether you're a celeb, not a celeb, an expert, a parent from our community, it's essentially that all parents, mums, dads, fathers, mothers, carers, whoever, but all parents are in it together, and it's hard no matter what or who you are.
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:11.680
And that's what we're going to delve into.
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:14.400
I can't wait to ask you all of my questions, Chloe.
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:22.079
But my very first question for you is how did becoming a mother challenge you?
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:28.079
So, what were the challenges that you faced in the journey that we call motherhood?
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:33.359
I've already kind of mentioned I've been self-employed since I was, well, when did I leave uni?
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:35.440
I left uni early, maybe 20.
00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:38.000
Um, and I worked in TV for a little bit.
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:45.519
And then in my early 20s, I became self-employed, carried on working in TV, and then ended up becoming a personal trainer.
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:47.359
Um, and this is 12 years ago now.
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:58.400
I ended up becoming a personal trainer, and then I ended up um starting kind of like an online, I guess it started as a blog, but it very much became like a you know fully functioning website.
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:00.319
And then I became an online coach.
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:05.599
And now, as you said, I've got two very big online coaching communities and I've got podcasts.
00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:16.079
And I think I kind of didn't really know if I wanted kids because I I, you know, love work and I love travel and I like spending my money on myself.
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:22.480
And I was like, well, traveling and wanting to make money and having a career doesn't really fit with having a family, and I was fine with that.
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:28.960
Um, until I found out that that I I might not be able to um get pregnant naturally.
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:34.559
And that panicked me and kind of pushed me over the edge of being like, okay, I'm gonna try for this.
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:38.559
Um, I think the initial decision of wanting to get pregnant was a huge surprise to me.
00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:40.880
I was like, oh, I guess I kind of do want this.
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:42.799
So that was the first big surprise.
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:50.400
And then since having Bodhi, and I recently did a TV show for ITV, and there's an episode where this is what's discussed as kind of ad nausea.
00:30:51.359 --> 00:31:03.519
I feel almost guilty and almost an element of self-loathing that that career drive has, I wouldn't say diminished, but it has significantly dissipated.
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:16.000
Where now I do what I call like the minimal effective dose that keeps me sane and enjoying my work and still working and having that element of my life, but I absolutely am not a quote unquote high achiever anymore.
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:21.519
So like I've already written four books, I've got two offers on the table to write my fifth, and I just can't bring myself to do it.
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:23.200
I'm like, I just can't.
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:28.160
And if you'd have told me that two, three years ago, I would have been disgusted with myself.
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:29.920
Like, get get a grip, woman.
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:36.720
But honestly, like the most surprising thing is that while I still enjoy work, and obviously it's important, we all need to make money to live.
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:42.960
Um, and I love my clients, I am just far less passionate about it than I once was.
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:45.039
It it sounds awful, but it's true.
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:48.160
It's just that picking and choosing piece, isn't it?
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:52.079
And the priorities that change significantly, like as you said.
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:56.240
But it looks to me, Clary, like you still manage to weave in the social stuff too.
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:01.759
So, what place does your social life have now that you're a mum?
00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:02.960
I live in London.
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:04.079
I have a big group of friends.
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:07.839
I'm going through a separation from Bodhi's father right now.
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:15.599
Um, and so because of these things, my social life is really important to my mental health and my enjoyment of life.
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:22.799
And I actually lived in the Midlands with James for six years when he played rugby and then through lockdown and everything.
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:36.720
And uh I realized in hindsight, uh, you know, when we were finally moving back to London and I was pregnant, how bad it had been for my mental health, that isolation, especially through lockdown, and then being pregnant and being on my own a lot was not great.
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:42.160
Um, so it's a huge part of kind of like I say, my mental health protocol now, seeing my friends and family.
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:46.240
But I would say I used to, I used to go out drinking with my girlfriends to I adore.
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:47.359
They're all mums too.
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:50.160
Like maybe once a week and now it's once a month.
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:52.640
So it's it's it's still important.
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:56.640
And I'm lucky enough that I can say I go out and have a good old time with them once a month.
00:32:56.799 --> 00:33:00.160
I don't think a lot of mums can can say that they have that luxury.
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:03.119
So that's great, but it's definitely like quartered.
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:07.119
Um, my family on the other hand, though, I count them as part of my social life too.
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:10.559
We have Sunday lunch pretty much every Sunday if we're all in London.
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:16.720
And that has been uh a hugely, especially like I say, going through the separation with James.
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:20.160
That's been hugely important for my sense of family and security.
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:23.200
And a lot of the time James comes too if we're getting on.
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:26.480
But um, it's it's really, really, really important to me.
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:29.680
Yeah, it's that sense of uh like a support village, isn't it?
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:32.319
So you've got your friends, you've got your family.
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:39.200
Is there anyone else in your village that has helped you along the way or maybe that's helped you find your way?
00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:40.960
Well, you to be honest.
00:33:41.119 --> 00:33:45.680
I mean, you're the first person that I came across who was like, no, combi feeding is possible.
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:48.319
Because I was like, well, apparently it's just it's just not gonna happen.
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:54.319
And you're like, well, if you can, if you if you can breastfeed, if that is an option to you, of course you can combi feed and the nipple confusion.
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:58.079
That was the first conversation we had where I was like, oh, there's hope.
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:00.880
And I think subsequently we've had multiple conversations.
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:03.359
Weaning, I really struggled with with bodie.
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:06.319
Early waking is another conversation we're having recently.
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:14.639
Just to have someone who is knows more about this than I do, to basically message or email or call and just say, can you help?
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:16.800
And that's been really helpful.
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:22.639
Um, and as I would say, like I have a part-time nanny, and she's utterly, utterly fantastic.
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:29.280
And I think I credit her hugely for Bodhi's education and how advanced Bodhi is.
00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:33.280
Um, she's very social with her, takes her to a thousand classes a week.
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:35.360
And I that makes me feel really happy.
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:41.360
And I know that I, if I hadn't had her, I would have really, really struggled just to get back to work and to get back on my feet.
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:43.840
So yeah, I definitely lean on people.
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:54.559
Um, and I I don't I really commend and applaud mothers who are, you know, single mothers, which kind of I am to a degree now, um, and who are doing it on their own without any help.
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:59.280
And I just think more power to you, because that is that's superhero stuff.
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:00.159
Absolutely.
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:14.559
It's it's so refreshing to hear you talk about childcare, as there are many people in your position, like online, etc., that just don't talk about childcare or they're not honest about the childcare that they do have, and that really gets me.
00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:23.360
Because if you're not honest, I mean you know, I'm very open about the fact that we have an opair, my daughter goes to nursery, it's so important.
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:27.119
Otherwise, other mums just look at it and they just think, well, I can't do it all.
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:28.239
Well, this is the thing.
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:32.159
I think there's a lot of shame wrapped up in it, and I think this is the thing.
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:54.320
If I was in a position and I learned this, and and let's just say if I have another baby again one day, or let's just say hypothetically, James and I'd stay together and I reckon if we had by now, I we would either be trying, or or you know, if if fate allowed, I would be pregnant, I would take a full year away and I would dedicate that year to um being a quote unquote mom.
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:59.760
And what I did that I would not do again is I went back to work after eight weeks.
00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:01.760
So therefore I needed childcare.
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:05.840
Um, I tried to do it without at first because I'm self-employed, I can work from home.
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:12.079
And it was when Bodhi hit that, like after two months, eight more weeks of that, at that kind of four months mark, I was like, right, I can't do this.
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:16.400
And that's when I hired our nanny, who I don't really name or talk about on her request.
00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:17.599
Like she's not in the show.
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:21.199
People all know, like she didn't ever come on camera, and that's her request.
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.039
Um, but I talk about her a lot.
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:29.519
And um, she came in, and what that meant was I could go back to work, and like I say, she's part-time.
00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:34.159
She only works a few hours a day, Monday to Friday, and then I can be a mum as well, but I couldn't do it without her.
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:42.000
And I think that there's this huge kind of I don't know, it's almost like a Venn diagram, a gray area that people ignore.
00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:44.480
You can't work and be a full-time mum.
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:46.159
Like you have to kind of pick one.
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:48.880
And so, and there's nothing wrong with one or the other.
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:51.280
There's nothing wrong with either, but you can't do both.
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:52.000
You just can't.
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:53.360
And I hear this a lot.
00:36:53.679 --> 00:37:00.159
Someone I work with who I who I love but doesn't have children, recently said in a speech to our client, you know, you can have everything.
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:03.199
And I was saying, no, you you j and you learn when you have kids.
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:05.519
No, you absolutely can't, you have to pick.
00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:15.360
But there is this weird shame of like, you chose to do that and not almost like I think people ignore the fact that you can't go back to work if you don't have childcare.
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:17.199
So yeah, and you can't win.
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:21.360
And then obviously, if you're if you're a quote unquote stay-at-home mum, then like you do nothing with your life.
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:24.400
It's like being a mum is a full-time job, hence why you can't do both.
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:25.519
Exactly, exactly.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:28.639
And this brings me on to something I really wanted to ask you.
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:48.960
So, one of my final questions, which is something I see you talk about a lot in the fitness world, um, which is the the unsolicited advice or the amount of misinformation out there, especially in parenting, sleep, whether it's combi feeding, and how have you navigated that?
00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:52.239
So, especially with you know having an online presence yourself.
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:52.880
You know what?
00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:55.679
This has been quite interesting about my maternal journey.
00:37:55.840 --> 00:38:08.800
In the beginning, and you'll know this, and this is how I found you, in the beginning, when I was pregnant and when Bodie was a newborn, I was very much like entrenched in all the evidence-based advice, and like hence how I found you, and there's a couple of other people who I follow who I really like.
00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:15.760
Um, and I was I was like, okay, this is what I have to do on this week, and this is what I have to do at this age, and this is when I have to start implementing this, and da-da-da.
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:18.800
And it was great in a way, because like Wake Windows, you introduced me to.
00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:20.719
So it really set me up and it really helped.
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:30.159
But then there was kind of like a cliff edge point where I think I went from being that kind of mum to being a very instinctive mum.
00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:38.320
And I think in the beginning, I really needed that reassurance and the education and the facts to set me up and make me feel comfortable and confident in what I was doing.
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:45.360
And then there was, like I say, like a cliff edge, a drop-off, where actually I became more comfortable and confident being a quote-unquote instinctive mum.
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:49.280
And I think I think that that having the former definitely allowed for the latter.
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:52.880
I don't think that would have happened quite so comfortably if I hadn't had the education pilot.
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:58.320
But now I very rarely read about what I should and shouldn't be doing, and I'm very much led by my child.
00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:06.960
And also my self-assuredness that I love my daughter and her safety and her health and her happiness comes before everything and everybody else.
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:14.000
Um, and so actually, I don't really care what Joan in Leeds has to say to me about how to make Bodie because she doesn't know Bodie.
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:16.239
I do, she's my child, and I care more than she does.
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:18.639
And I'm very comforted by that acknowledgement.
00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:22.960
And I also think, you know, that was really driven home to me when James and I decided to separate.
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:27.440
Um, you know, I keep talking about this, but it's so relevant and it's so fresh as well in my parenting journey.
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:30.000
And I think so many people are like, oh, how could you do that?
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:30.559
You have a child.
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:38.960
And it's like one of the reasons why that decision was made is because it became very clear very quickly that this was not an environment that we that Bodhi we wanted Bodhi in.
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:45.039
Um, you know, you see all those behavioral tests online and you see how it can affect the children, and we very much made the right decision for her.
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.679
And so much, if we didn't have Bodhi, I think we'd still be together.
00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:50.960
So the irony is that people thought that's just what should keep us together.
00:39:51.039 --> 00:39:53.840
But that's actually what made us realize how not great it was.
00:39:54.000 --> 00:40:03.760
Um so yeah, I think just that self-assuredness, you know, that you love your child more than anyone, you care about their health and safety more than anyone, you know them better than anyone.
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:05.039
So trust yourself.
00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:10.639
And um, and since then, I just think it being a mother's become so much more enjoyable.
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:11.360
Absolutely.
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:21.760
And I I find it really difficult because we are we talk a lot about gut instinct and sitting with yourself as to what is right for you, whether that's feeding, whether that's sleep methods, etc.
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:29.519
So encouraging parents to use their instinct, but at the same time to be there for advice.
00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:31.840
And that dynamic I feel is quite difficult.
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:33.920
It's hard, but yeah, totally agree.
00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:37.599
Find your own way and essentially doing what works for you.
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:38.079
Right.
00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:40.800
Well, this is the thing, and you'll know this in the science community.
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:46.320
The the term cherry picking is seen as a negative thing, but I actually think as a mother, it's like a necessity.
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:54.719
So you know that you know the kind of advice of all the different things you should slash could do, and then cherry pick what, as you say, what works best for you and your child.
00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:59.599
And like I say, in my community, I'm I'm an evidence-based, very much science-based coach.
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:02.800
Um, and you know, everyone's like, oh, you're cherry-picking this study and that.
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:04.079
And I get it, I do get it.
00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:07.119
But as a mother, I actually think it is the only way to do it.
00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:10.239
Yeah, I mean, you have to do what sits right for you, don't you?
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:11.360
It's so important.
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:15.760
Which brings me on to my last question.
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:19.840
And that is, which one piece of advice would you give to a new parent?
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:31.599
So whether that's someone who's about to have a baby, has a baby already, is you know, part way through the early years, but what would your advice be for other parents out there?
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:41.519
So, okay, I want to preface this by saying that nobody can predict how quickly or you know, how easily I should say you're going to adapt to being a mother.
00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:44.960
I have friends who didn't born with their children until days after they were born.
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:48.000
I have friends, myself included, who didn't really think that they wanted kids.
00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:51.920
And the second they saw their baby was like, this is all I want to do for the rest of my life.
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:53.840
And you can't predict, we're all different.
00:41:53.920 --> 00:42:13.519
But I will say this there's a lot of doom and gloom stories out there about, you know, awful, awful birth stories, which again is brilliant that we're shedding light on the fact that these are the options, these are the things that can happen, and these are your options to try and have, you know, the safest, or most kind of, I guess, um, in control birth that you personally can have.
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:30.320
And I think that's great, but there's so many doom and gloom stories in there that I know that I started, and by the way, I had an emergency c-section and and you know, I didn't my butt and I did not go to Japan, but I was terrified of it for a long time while I was pregnant because all you hear is the negative.
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:33.760
But some people have like, I had an emergency C-section and it was fine.
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:34.880
It was absolutely fine.
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:37.280
And once I had her in my arms, all of it made sense.
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:42.800
She was safe, she was with me, and I'm so happy I had an emergency C-section, or that would not have been the outcome.
00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:55.599
And there's so many doom and gloom stories about something as tiny as the baby blues, and then obviously something as prevalent as post-matal depression, which my mother had after she had me, and it was awful, and she talks about it openly, and it's very inspiring.
00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:02.719
But some, you know, don't expect that the worst case scenario is inevitably what's gonna happen to you because that is what you think.
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:12.239
I think as a human, but especially when you're pregnant and you're about to be a mother for the first time, you're like, well, obviously it's all gonna go wrong for me because it's me and nothing ever goes right for me.
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:15.199
Actually, like it might be the best thing that's ever happened to you.
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:19.440
You might have a dream birth, you might not get, I didn't, I didn't get any baby blues.
00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:21.039
You might not get postnatal depression.
00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:23.039
Okay, you might, but at least you know about it.
00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:29.519
But don't project the doom and gloom onto you and be aware that let's just say you don't have a great childbirth.
00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:37.039
It happens, and you know, you might need to speak to somebody, you might not, but you you can manage it, you can go forward on your mothering journey.
00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:44.000
Um, and you might get postnatal depression, but at least you know what it looks like, what it sounds like, and reach out to someone if that happens, at least you have that knowledge.
00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:51.119
And I think there's just a lot of fear-mongering, and it's it doesn't need to be like that, even if it doesn't quite go to plan or doesn't quite go perfectly.
00:43:51.199 --> 00:43:52.559
You don't need to be so scared.
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:54.079
And it's so interesting.
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:59.760
So, although social media has been amazing for exploring like the negatives of parenting, for example.
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:04.159
Realising that not everyone has the perfect house or the perfect child.
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:12.800
I think it's also meant that sometimes we talk about how hard is so much that that almost becomes too much of a focus.
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:18.079
And speaking from memory, I think, am I right in saying that you really enjoyed the baby stage?
00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:23.280
I, so many people like said it to me, and I still don't understand it now.
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:29.760
We're like, oh my god, having it the newborn is the hardest bit, and you're so exhausted and the breastfeeding.
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:33.119
Don't get me wrong, there are hard moments, there are hard days.
00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:38.000
To me, put from my perspective, and again, I just want to preface this by saying we're all different.
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:42.800
The newborn phase was the best, easiest, the most like chilled out phase.
00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:50.719
And again, I went back to work after eight weeks, and I still look back on it now with huge nostalgia and warmth and love.
00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:56.719
Um, and I and I do think, you know, but every stage since you are going to have really hard days.
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:00.639
There were many times where it was three o'clock in the morning and I just lay in bed crying my eyes out.
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:01.599
Of course there were.
00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:10.960
You know, there were there are still points, you know, that I haven't not cried every day for the last week that my ex has had my child and they're in Portugal and I'm not there.
00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:13.119
And it, you know, there are still really hard moments.
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:20.559
There are moments when Bodhi's being an absolute nightmare and tries to run out into a road and it's like awful and terrifying and mortifying and everything.
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:35.280
But by and large, having Bodhi, and again, I I only speak for myself here, has been the best, most life-affirming, life-enhancing, full of love, funny, like hysterically funny experience of my life.
00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:37.199
And I again, I think, yeah, you hear that a lot.
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:38.480
It's so hard, it's so hard.
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:39.920
People don't tell you how hard it is.
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:41.119
I beg to differ.
00:45:41.199 --> 00:45:43.119
All people do is tell you how hard it is.
00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:43.920
Yes, exactly.
00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:45.440
Also great.
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:51.760
And like I say, like we talk about how hard it is, and that's all anyone talks about, and the postnatal depression and the birth plan that goes birth.
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:54.400
It's good that we know all this now, and I'm not poo-pooing that.
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:59.039
It's good that we have all this information, but there's also another side of that, which is like it can be great.
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:01.920
And yeah, that's been my experience of it.
00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:03.039
A hundred percent.
00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:10.000
And I I feel like when I post about my own parenting journey, so content that does well is me sharing the hard bits, of course.
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:12.639
You know, I'm finding this difficult, this is hard.
00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:21.920
And when when I'm positive and talk about like loving my kids and feeling connected, it's it's almost seen as a bad thing.
00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:32.000
This is the interesting thing about social media, and I don't think it's made better by all the virtue signalling, is the more you get, you're considered more authentic and more real.
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:43.280
If you share your horrific birth story or your horrific, you know, I don't know, postnatal recovery story or how hard it was, or you know, and and you get so much love and support for that.
00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:48.800
But the second you say, actually, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me, people are like, well, it's not like that for everyone.
00:46:48.880 --> 00:46:53.599
It's like, okay, but if we can say that you like oranges, why can't I say that I like apples?
00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:56.400
Or you say you don't like bananas, why can't I say I like plums?
00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:57.920
Like, what's the problem?
00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:02.559
And I think I can say, like, it is a good thing to have all of this authenticity out there.
00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:06.960
But I don't think that we should consider positivity a negative.
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:15.199
I think it's really for me personally, as a negative person, by nature, it's really important that I hear and see the positive stories.
00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:17.679
Oh my goodness.
00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:20.400
Oh, Clary, you are amazing.
00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:21.039
Thank you.
00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:24.639
Absolute superstar, superstar mummy, just doing your thing.
00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:27.360
Thank you for all of your advice and for coming on.
00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:29.360
I really appreciate it.
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:32.960
Thank you for listening to Positively Parenthood the podcast.
00:47:33.199 --> 00:47:41.039
We love to say here at Positively Parenthood that knowledge is power, and really hope that you found this episode super useful.
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:45.679
Please do hit subscribe to be the first to find out about new episodes.
00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:52.639
And visit our website positivelyparenthood.com for more information on our one to ones and online courses.
00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:54.400
See you next time.
00:00:06.959 --> 00:00:20.480
Welcome to Positively Parenthood, the podcast, your one-stop shop for non-judgmental, kind and knowledge-backed parenting advice to help you thrive rather than just survive on your parenting journey.
00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:28.160
I do hope you enjoy listening and find it helpful on this crazy roller coaster that we call Parented.
00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:33.600
Remember, listen to your guts and do what sits right for you.
00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:36.479
Your family, your way.
00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:44.159
So a massive hello and welcome back to the first episode.
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I'm back.
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Long time coming.
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And life has certainly changed significantly since I last recorded.
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COVID, lockdown.
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I used to run up to my bedroom every Sunday morning whilst my husband coped with two small children, my two boys at the time.
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And that's entirely not possible now.
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But here I am in my office with my three children at home.
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And yeah, life is suddenly all a bit chaotic.
00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:16.239
But so many of you listened to my last podcast.
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I think in the end we hit something like 300,000 lessons which is just simply crazy.
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That's a third of a million, which blows my mind.
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So I am back.
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The Parent and Baby Coach podcasts are no more.
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They are gone, but I am here now with Positively Parenthood the Podcast to update my advice, give you even more advice, and of course continue to support you on your parenting journey.
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So what can we expect second time over?
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Now this time over, I wanted to make sure that the episodes are short, sweet, and full of lots of brilliant advice that you can implement almost immediately.
00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:17.039
For those of you that have catnappers, which is a huge proportion of our client base quite often, in the back of my mind, I kind of want to ensure that this podcast is easy to listen to in that time so that you can get all of the information you need.
00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:18.639
So that is my goal.
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Let's see if I stick to it, but that is my goal.
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Not only that, I also wanted to make sure that there was time to hear from you guys too.
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So whilst I love a podcast and I love the expert interviews, I do sort of feel like it's often the same people getting to talk about their experiences as a parent or as an expert, which is of course amazing, but it also misses out on you guys, our community.
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So on this podcast, I want to hear from you.
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I will be speaking to celebrities and experts, but I also want to be talking to you guys as well.
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Proving that no matter what your job, credentials, career name, tag on Instagram, all parents experience the exact same challenges and difficulties.
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I hope you enjoy this first episode.
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Before we start, I wanted to say a huge thank you to our sponsor of this podcast, Glow Dreaming.
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Glow Dreaming are a brand that I have been working with for this last year.
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Their sleep easy devices make sleep scientifically better for babies and toddlers alike.
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So do head to glowdreaming.com to see their entire range of products and use code HID10 for 10% off.
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So are we ready?
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Let's delve into our very first topic on our very first episode of Positively Parenthood the Podcast, and that is drum roll please, early morning waking.
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Now, I have been talking about this podcast coming back for a couple of weeks now.
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I have done various polls on social media, and although I sort of wanted to start with another topic, if I'm totally honest, the overriding most common topic that you kept clicking on, you kept wanting to hear about is early morning waking.
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So here we are.
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Let's first talk about what an early wake is.
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This can be, I guess if you like, potentially slightly controversial at times.
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Okay, so in our world, we class an early wake as anything before 6 a.m.
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So if your little one, and we are talking babies and toddlers today, if your little one is say six months and up and they are waking before 6 a.m., I would be very surprised if you can't move that slightly later after having tried some of the things that I'm going to run through in this podcast.
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Now, every family is totally different, and that's why we don't discount anyone who wants to work on early waking, even if their waking is say 6, 6.15, 6.30, because for some people that still feels really early for them too.
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So if you are here with a little one who's maybe waking at 6.15 and you'd like it to be a little later, what we don't do is we never promise 7.
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Okay, we don't promise that you can always get like a sort of seventh or seven baby or toddler because not all babies will sleep that long.
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However, what I do know is lots of these tips work no matter what time your baby's waking.
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So whether they're waking at five or six, generally speaking, there's still stuff you can work on.
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And if by now you probably know me, but if you don't, you will know that one of my biggest, I guess, mottos, if you like, is that knowledge is power.
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I don't normalize things, I don't tend to just sort of go, well, that's just what they need, or that's just how they are.
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I believe there's so much more to sleep than often meets the eye.
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And actually, I can give you this information and you can take what you wish, and that's what's so important.
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If the idea of going through all of this stresses you out, just work on acceptance of what time your baby or toddler is waking currently.
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However, if you're here going, tell me more, I want to move this time from say 5.30 to 6.30, then absolutely stay tuned because I'm going to run you through the most common reasons for early waking in both babies and toddlers.
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The very first reason for early waking seems to be a word that gets a really bad press right now.
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I have noticed on social media that the word overtiredness is now basically kind of become very negative, and people have become quite dismissive of it potentially, or this notion that it's sort of overused and shouldn't be talked about as much, or it's not really a thing for so many babies.
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In our experience at Positively Parenthood, and just so you know, that experience for me is 15 years of doing sleep consultancy.
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In my vast experience, in around about, I would say 75% of cases, it's over-tiredness versus under-tiredness.
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Okay, so that is why if you look at our Q ⁇ A's, things like that, or even when we work with our clients, the first thing we'll often try is an earlier bedtime rather than a later one.
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And that is because most of the time it makes the biggest difference.
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It's not just information plucked from the air.
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Okay, it does make a huge difference for lots of babies and toddlers.
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So what's happening if they're overtired?
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When we get to sort of the early hours of the morning, let's say 4, 4:30, 5, 5, 15, what the body is doing is starting to wake us up for the daytime very slowly by producing cortisol, which is our stress hormone, but also our daytime hormone.
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Okay, so cortisol is not just bad, and actually we need it to function in the daytime.
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So when they're waking early, the reason that overtiredness can feed into that is because if they're already going to bed overtired, then when that level rises in the morning, they're more likely to wake because that sort of cortisol is waking them earlier than it otherwise would be if they weren't so tired.
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So what we're seeing is if they're not getting enough day sleep or if they're going to bed too late, they may well actually be waking earlier rather than later.
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So it goes completely against the trend.
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I totally appreciate that if you put them to bed later, they'll wake up later.
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Most parents have tried that, and most parents will know that not to be the case, unless, of course, the genuine reason is undertiredness, which we're not discounting.
00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:12.320
That is the case for some babies and toddlers, but in most situations that we encounter, overtiredness is one of the main variables of early waking.
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So, how do we counteract that?
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How do we improve that wake-up time by looking at overtiredness?
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So the first thing to think about is tweaking bedtime.
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Okay, so we're looking at bedtime and going, well, if they're waking at 6 and they're going to bed at 7, what would happen if I put them to bed at 6.45 or 6.30?
00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:37.679
I would say you need to move bedtime by at least 15 minutes.
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And if you're feeling really brave, I'd do half an hour earlier.
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And we also need to do this for at least four or five days, normally up to a week, to see a difference.
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And this is why it's really hard because if you put them to bed earlier and then they wake earlier, you go, well, that didn't work.
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But we have to stick at it for at least five days, ideally seven.
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And sometimes it's not early enough.
00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:04.799
So for example, if you did 645 and that didn't work, I'd try 630.
00:10:04.879 --> 00:10:08.799
Okay, so it's all about trial and error, but it is also about consistency.
00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:14.879
And I totally appreciate being so tired and so desperate how hard that is to achieve.
00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:26.879
But if you want to look at your little ones' over-tiredness and make a difference, I would highly consider thinking about over-tiredness as one of the very first variables to look into.
00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:29.759
And then we also want to think about daytime sleep too.
00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:42.159
And obviously, daytime sleep plays both into over and under-tiredness because if they're having too much sleep in the day, they might be less likely to sleep for the length you want them to at night time and therefore wake earlier.
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But at the same time, what we're saying is if they're not having enough sleep, they could also be overtired and waking early.
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So for daytime sleep needs, I'd highly recommend heading to our online courses, the baby sleep course, the toddler sleep course, because in those courses we have our routines that are jammed-packed, full of all the information you need to sort sleep, to settle sleep down, to have amazing restful nights and nice long naps.
00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:09.360
And what we include in those courses is our routines.
00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:12.000
Okay, so how much sleep per age.
00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:17.840
But what we're looking at is quite often you'll get early waking when there's a nap transition happening.
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So, for example, generally speaking, three to two naps happens around about six to eight months of age.
00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:33.840
So if you're in that age bracket and your little one is waking early, could it be that you need to speed up that nap transition process?
00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:36.080
Okay, so they might be ready for two naps.
00:11:36.159 --> 00:11:41.120
If they're having a third nap and it's too late in the day, that could be causing the early waking.
00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:48.480
Speaking from experience with my daughter who is currently coming up to 16 months, she's in the two to one nap transition.
00:11:48.960 --> 00:12:06.799
And albeit I know she can go through the day with one nap now, there are definitely days where either I have a meeting and I have to put her down at 9.30 for a morning nap, or she wakes a little bit earlier than maybe I'd like, because for example, on nursery days, I often put her to bed at 6 or 6.15.
00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:11.200
She's so exhausted, which clearly then means she'll be up at 6 the next day.
00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:16.480
So instead of making her go 6am till 7 pm with just the one nap, I will do a morning nap.
00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:23.519
However, what I do know with the morning nap is if she has it and I give her anything over, say, 20 to 30 minutes.
00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:32.960
So if I'm stuck on a phone call and I end up giving her an hour at 16 months, then I know the next day she does tend to wake up earlier.
00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:37.360
But I tend to take that on the chin and I tend to just decide, well, do you know what?
00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.759
I'm cool with the early waking the next day because I need to do the meeting today.
00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:54.240
So that's just a really good example of how that two to one nap transition can cause early wakes, as can the three to two nap transition, the two to one, and of course the one to zero.
00:12:54.480 --> 00:13:01.200
Okay, so when they drop their nap completely, generally after a few weeks, it's not uncommon for them to start waking early.
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:19.600
And that is due to the buildup of overtiredness, which is why we so often talk about going to bed early or trying an earlier bedtime, because it honestly does make a huge difference, I'd say, in about 75% of family case studies that we work on.
00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:32.399
Another potential reason for early waking, and it's one that we see a lot or we see improvement with a lot of the time when we work on this, is your baby or toddler's ability to fall to sleep independently, so on their own.
00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:37.360
Now, settling to sleep and having your support is never a problem.
00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:48.480
So if you enjoy doing that cuddle, or maybe you feed to sleep and you've got a smaller one, or even a bigger one, to be honest with you, then this is not, you know, there's no rush to change that.
00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:53.440
I think it's really important that you do what works for you, your family, your way.
00:13:53.679 --> 00:14:11.919
However, if we have a scenario where we have a little one who is waking up early, and generally speaking, with early waking, they'll also have night wakes, then the first thing, one of the first things we will look at after we've ensured that they are comfortable, and I'll come on to that later, is their ability to settle to sleep on their own.
00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:14.480
So are they falling asleep on their own in the evening?
00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:23.440
Now, those babies, those toddlers who fall asleep on their own in the evening, in our experience are more likely to do less night wakes and less early waking.
00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:42.559
This is something that if you said, for example, they're waking at 10, 12, 2, and then they're up at 5 a.m., then that to me wouldn't just be an early wakes kind of issue, if you like, because there's also night waking going on, which would mean we'd probably need to work on everything at the same time.
00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:47.679
So what we look at is their ability to settle to sleep and can they do it on their own?
00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:57.120
Now, if you have no other night wakes and it's just early waking, then if you choose to work on settling to sleep, what I would just say is you have to cover off all bases.
00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:03.279
Because what I don't want you to do is think, right, I'm going to go away and teach them to self-settle and the early waking will stop.
00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:12.159
Because if that early waking is related to actually their daytime sleep rather than their settling ability or their tummies, then that won't improve things.
00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:16.320
Okay, and this is why when you're working on sleep, you have to be in the right position.
00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:25.039
Most of the time, it's an emotional readiness on your part to undertake some form of sleep coaching if you're working on settling.
00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:35.200
But it's worth pointing out that their ability to settle to sleep is one of the potential reasons that we see that can feed into early morning waking.
00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:42.159
Now, let's talk about what actually happens when our body starts to stir, starts to wake us for the day.
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:51.919
So let's say those hormones are rising, okay, that cord soul is increasing, our sleep starts to become very light in the early hours of the morning.
00:15:52.080 --> 00:16:00.480
Now, what that means is if there's anything else going on around us or our environment is not quite right, then we're more likely to wake up.
00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:04.000
So that would mean, for example, light coming in.
00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:15.919
And if you're listening to this as it launches, you'll know that it's summertime and we're very close to the longest day of the year, which means that it's insanely light at almost well, 3:30 a.m.
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:21.600
I was up the other night, and I was a bit like, wow, it could just be the beginning of the day now.
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:34.080
So it's incredibly light, and that can also impact our body's sort of sleep as well, because what we want to do is what our bodies like doing rather is sleeping in nice dark environments.
00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:54.960
So if there is a lot of light coming in, or if the blinds aren't really working properly, or the curtains aren't closed, or they're closed but they're very thin, you might find that they're more likely to wake when it starts to get lighter, which is why we believe that blackout is an essential sleep product for babies and toddlers.
00:16:55.039 --> 00:17:00.960
And all the best hotels will have blackout for the right reasons because they know you sleep better, they want you to sleep better.
00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:05.039
If you sleep well at that hotel, you're more likely to recommend it and go again.
00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:09.759
So they're not stupid, and it's exactly the same for us and for our babies and our toddlers.
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.000
Okay, so have a think about the lights.
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:16.319
I wouldn't go as crazy as taping up every single crack of light.
00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:20.720
That said, some children are more sensitive to light than others.
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:22.319
So it's worth thinking about.
00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:27.119
And although it's not winter currently, it might be for some of you listening to this at a later date.
00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:29.279
And we also need to think about temperature.
00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:30.559
Are they cold?
00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:37.599
Let's say because the heating hasn't kicked in yet, or is the heating clicking on and it's making too much noise?
00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:47.200
Okay, so that's why the white noise, the pink noise that you can choose to use has a massive benefit in terms of helping them stay asleep.
00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:58.319
And you can have a look at, like I said at the beginning, the glow dreaming sleep easy is a great product because it has that pink noise that helps aid deeper sleep.
00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:06.720
So it's worth thinking about something like that in your baby or toddler's room in order to help them sleep a little bit longer in the mornings.
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:25.519
Now, quite often, what can happen with early waking is it can be triggered by a nap transition, or I'll come on to Tommies in a second, but it can be triggered by something, but then it can very quickly become habits, it can become the body clock just starts to wake up then and get used to it.
00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:46.079
And it can also become that they start to realize that when they wake up, they get a thing, something that happens, and that might be a milk feed, that quite often with um older babies or toddlers can be coming into your bed, maybe putting the TV on or the iPad on or watching something on your phone whilst you doze.
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:58.480
And I have three children, I can totally understand how tempting that is, and there is absolutely no right or wrong when it comes to screen time and what you want to do with your children.
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:06.160
However, what I would say is if they're used to that and they know it's going to happen, that in itself can reinforce the early waking.
00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:27.039
Okay, so short of babies who are in need of a feed because they actually need the calories, so those smaller babies, let's say under six months, if they are say a 10-month-old and you know that they don't need a night feed, but they're being fed at say 4:30 or 5 and go back to sleep, at that age, then I would question: has that just become a habit?
00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:31.359
Is that just reinforced because they know they get fed but they don't actually need it?
00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:36.160
And the same goes for coming into your bed if they're a toddler and, for example, watching the iPad.
00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:39.759
Now, this can be painful to fix, right?
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:41.599
It's it's no magic fix.
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:50.160
If you decide tomorrow, actually we won't do TV in bed at 5 a.m., you will have some sort of kickback.
00:19:50.319 --> 00:20:06.240
Okay, and this is where quite often we do end up using our sleep coaching approaches that you can find on our online courses, because what we need to do is say, right, if we're not going to feed them, if we're not gonna bring them into our bed, let's keep settling them in their room until what we call our cut-off time.
00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:11.680
So our cutoff time is a time that we agree that is realistic for them to stay in bed until.
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:16.000
And I would suggest that is 6 a.m., depending on their bedtime.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:20.000
Okay, so if they're going down at 7, I would say 6 a.m.
00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:21.599
is a fair cut-off time.
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:36.720
Now, not every child will sleep for 11 to 12 hours, but in our experience, if you're getting all of these variables in line, then it's very unusual not to make 10 and a half, 11 hours at night time for the people that we work with.
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:39.440
That's our one-to-one clients, okay.
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:45.279
So I would say aim for that amount of time, make sure bedtime's at the right time.
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:48.480
We've talked about earlier bedtimes, later bedtimes, etc.
00:20:48.880 --> 00:21:02.720
And then look at is there something that's happening when they wake up that could be causing them to wake early that I, as a parent, am happy not to do anymore to see if that helps with the early waking.
00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:17.680
Now, this really is a whistle stop tour of early morning waking, and please do keep your eyes peeled on our website because we do regular early morning waking webinars, and those are super helpful to run through all of this information in much more detail.
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:22.319
But what I want to come on to now is two final reasons for possible early waking.
00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:32.079
Now, one I've mentioned already, but I haven't delved into it into too much information, and that is because it is less common as a reason, and that is undertiredness.
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:38.720
Okay, so sometimes they're waking early simply because they're going to bed too early, and it's as simple as that.
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:42.160
So you just need to start putting them to bed a little bit later.
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:49.519
And in that process, what tends to happen is let's say they're an 11 hour baby or a toddler, okay?
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:53.920
Putting them to bed at 7 or 6 30 because you've been trying early bed.
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:58.480
So let's say you're at 6 30 bedtime, but then they're waking at 5 30.
00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:59.519
Okay, that's 11 hours.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.440
That's a really good sleep.
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:06.720
So, what might be more beneficial is to push that bedtime more towards 7, 7.15, 7:30.
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.319
So that you do get your six, your 6.15, your 6:30.
00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:13.839
Okay, so sometimes it is just a matter of pushing out bedtime.
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:29.440
And like I said, generally speaking, with our one-to-one clients, and I obviously can't account for everyone else here, but when we work one-on-one with our clients, generally we tend to get at least 10 and a half hour nights, if not 11 to 12.
00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:36.559
So what I'm sort of suggesting here is it is possible, and you don't just have to accept that that's just the length that they sleep.
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:51.200
However, if we're caught in the cycle of thinking it was overtiredness, putting them down early, and they're still waking early or they're waking earlier, in some cases, I would say a good sort of 25% of the time, rough percentage there, it's undertiredness.
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:57.039
Okay, so under-tiredness means they need to go to bed later or they need to have less daytime sleep.
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:00.640
Now, my very final reason for early waking.
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:02.960
And to be honest, it's my favourite.
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:08.880
And I've left it for the end on purpose because I feel like a lot of you want really practical information.
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:10.240
You want to know what to do.
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:11.599
Tick, tick, tick.
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:15.119
It's almost like a checklist, an early morning waking checklist in a podcast.
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:16.640
Tried all of those things.
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:28.079
If you're still at the end here thinking, I've tried it all, I've done everything, I just cannot move past the 4:30, the 5, the 5.15 start, then what I would say to you is be curious.
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:46.160
Open your eyes, open your ears to being really, really curious about what else is going on in your little one's body with their physiology and trying to understand whether there's anything else that could be impacting their body's ability to stay asleep when their hormones start to try and wake them up for the day.
00:23:46.720 --> 00:24:05.519
So, for example, right now, my daughter is full of snot and she has this horrible greeny-yellow, and I'm really hoping it's not an infection, but horrible snot, which means that her normal seven o'clock wake up for the last three, four days since she's had this cough and snot has been 6.20, 6.22 today, if you like.
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:10.319
And I can hear she's snuffling on and off from about five.
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:13.519
And when I pick her out of her cot at 6.20, she is full of it.
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:14.640
She's full of snot.
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:20.799
And I know that normally she sleeps later, but there's something right now that's impacting her ability to stay asleep.
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:27.519
It's not pain, it's just very mild discomfort or something that's just annoying her body.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:35.359
And the same would go for if your little one had some kind of illness or teething.
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:38.000
Okay, so illness and teething can cause early waking.
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:49.680
However, if the early waking is consistent and hasn't stopped once the tooth has come through or the illness has disappeared, then we want to look at whether there's something underlying that's causing them to be a lighter sleeper.
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:53.759
And there's two main things here, and these things I will cover in future podcasts.
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:57.279
And one is the way in which they breathe.
00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:06.160
Okay, so if they breathe through their mouth at nighttime, they have their mouth open, they snore, they catch flies, they dribble.
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:12.640
I speak from experience because I've done all of these things in my life until recently when I've sort of self-corrected myself.
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:16.240
But if they are a mouth breather, generally their sleep is lighter.
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:20.400
So therefore, we find that those mouth breathers are often earlier risers.
00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:22.720
Now, what can you do about mouth breathing?
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:24.160
Nothing today.
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:28.079
Okay, you can't make any changes to mouth breathing overnight.
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:31.279
However, we can look at the reason for mouth breathing.
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:37.200
So keep an eye on future podcasts because I will be doing an episode on mouth breathing and what you can do to help.
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:43.119
The second reason is tummy gut digestion related.
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:50.240
Okay, so if they are, and I have a whole list of things, and again, I could talk about this forever.
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:55.359
It's become somewhat of a specialism in my job, in my career as a sleep coach.
00:25:55.440 --> 00:26:16.480
But this is if their tummy is not that happy, if they are overloaded in terms of had too much food for dinner that night, or too much milk before bed, or even are still having too many night feeds, that can cause their digestive system to wake and start trying to digest that food earlier than maybe if it was a little bit more empty or empty full stop.
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:22.559
Okay, so we find that too much food, overfeeding, too many night feeds can cause early waking.
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:45.200
And we also know that an unhappy gut, an unhappy tummy, for example, if your little one has an undiagnosed sensitivity to certain food groups, could be an allergy, could be a delayed allergy, could be an intolerance, but ultimately, regardless of what it is, if their gut is a bit sort of sensitive or on edge, then it can mean that they can be more likely to wake early.
00:26:45.440 --> 00:27:02.799
We see a lot of toddlers who are early wakers and we look at the different variables, look at what they've done, they go away and they look at exclusions, and quite often, often enough for me to talk about this, they take out, for example, dairy, they give probiotics, and that early waking disappears.
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:05.359
Okay, it's a huge topic.
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:09.759
And it's not one really that I can troubleshoot just on a podcast.
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:10.480
It's really hard.
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:14.400
I need to know more about your baby, how they were born, how your pregnancy was.
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:20.880
But what I'm saying here, I suppose, is it's very unusual that we just accept that's just how they are.
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:27.359
They're just an early waker, they just have low sleep needs because there's so much more to sleep than we realise.
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:34.000
And when we open our eyes and open our minds and our thoughts towards could it be something else?
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:35.839
Could it be that they are a mouth breather?
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:38.559
Could it be that there's something going on with their little tummy?
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:48.319
It doesn't mean that they're in pain, you don't have to feel bad for missing it or not knowing about this, but there's often something else underlying, okay?
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:54.640
And I will explore all of these topics in so much more detail in future podcasts.
00:27:54.880 --> 00:28:03.680
But in the meantime, I hope this has given you food for thought, something to take away, and I look forward to being with you again for episode two.
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:17.039
So today I'm joined by amazing Chloe, who is, well, you can tell me, Chloe, what you'd like to be called, but most importantly, is a mother.
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:22.559
And she's also an incredible online fitness coach who supports a whole community of other women.
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:26.079
So a perfect first guest for me on my very first podcast.
00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:27.279
Welcome, Chloe.
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:28.000
Hi!
00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:38.240
I know it sounds so cheesy and cliche, and I'm sure a lot of people roll their eyes because I am very much a career woman, but I do, since I've had Bodhi, I do kind of identify most as being like Bodhi's mom.
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:43.680
Which, if you told me would have happened even when I was pregnant, I would have rolled my eyes and like been like, ugh, as if.
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:49.039
But it's my number one kind of, I guess, priority in life, and therefore it is my title now.
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:49.680
Exactly.
00:28:49.759 --> 00:29:10.000
And that's the whole point of this podcast is to show people that no matter your title, your Instagram handle, whether you're a celeb, not a celeb, an expert, a parent from our community, it's essentially that all parents, mums, dads, fathers, mothers, carers, whoever, but all parents are in it together, and it's hard no matter what or who you are.
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:11.680
And that's what we're going to delve into.
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:14.400
I can't wait to ask you all of my questions, Chloe.
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:22.079
But my very first question for you is how did becoming a mother challenge you?
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:28.079
So, what were the challenges that you faced in the journey that we call motherhood?
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:33.359
I've already kind of mentioned I've been self-employed since I was, well, when did I leave uni?
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:35.440
I left uni early, maybe 20.
00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:38.000
Um, and I worked in TV for a little bit.
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:45.519
And then in my early 20s, I became self-employed, carried on working in TV, and then ended up becoming a personal trainer.
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:47.359
Um, and this is 12 years ago now.
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:58.400
I ended up becoming a personal trainer, and then I ended up um starting kind of like an online, I guess it started as a blog, but it very much became like a you know fully functioning website.
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:00.319
And then I became an online coach.
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:05.599
And now, as you said, I've got two very big online coaching communities and I've got podcasts.
00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:16.079
And I think I kind of didn't really know if I wanted kids because I I, you know, love work and I love travel and I like spending my money on myself.
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:22.480
And I was like, well, traveling and wanting to make money and having a career doesn't really fit with having a family, and I was fine with that.
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:28.960
Um, until I found out that that I I might not be able to um get pregnant naturally.
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:34.559
And that panicked me and kind of pushed me over the edge of being like, okay, I'm gonna try for this.
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:38.559
Um, I think the initial decision of wanting to get pregnant was a huge surprise to me.
00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:40.880
I was like, oh, I guess I kind of do want this.
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:42.799
So that was the first big surprise.
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:50.400
And then since having Bodhi, and I recently did a TV show for ITV, and there's an episode where this is what's discussed as kind of ad nausea.
00:30:51.359 --> 00:31:03.519
I feel almost guilty and almost an element of self-loathing that that career drive has, I wouldn't say diminished, but it has significantly dissipated.
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:16.000
Where now I do what I call like the minimal effective dose that keeps me sane and enjoying my work and still working and having that element of my life, but I absolutely am not a quote unquote high achiever anymore.
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:21.519
So like I've already written four books, I've got two offers on the table to write my fifth, and I just can't bring myself to do it.
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:23.200
I'm like, I just can't.
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:28.160
And if you'd have told me that two, three years ago, I would have been disgusted with myself.
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:29.920
Like, get get a grip, woman.
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:36.720
But honestly, like the most surprising thing is that while I still enjoy work, and obviously it's important, we all need to make money to live.
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:42.960
Um, and I love my clients, I am just far less passionate about it than I once was.
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:45.039
It it sounds awful, but it's true.
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:48.160
It's just that picking and choosing piece, isn't it?
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:52.079
And the priorities that change significantly, like as you said.
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:56.240
But it looks to me, Clary, like you still manage to weave in the social stuff too.
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:01.759
So, what place does your social life have now that you're a mum?
00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:02.960
I live in London.
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:04.079
I have a big group of friends.
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:07.839
I'm going through a separation from Bodhi's father right now.
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:15.599
Um, and so because of these things, my social life is really important to my mental health and my enjoyment of life.
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:22.799
And I actually lived in the Midlands with James for six years when he played rugby and then through lockdown and everything.
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:36.720
And uh I realized in hindsight, uh, you know, when we were finally moving back to London and I was pregnant, how bad it had been for my mental health, that isolation, especially through lockdown, and then being pregnant and being on my own a lot was not great.
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:42.160
Um, so it's a huge part of kind of like I say, my mental health protocol now, seeing my friends and family.
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:46.240
But I would say I used to, I used to go out drinking with my girlfriends to I adore.
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:47.359
They're all mums too.
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:50.160
Like maybe once a week and now it's once a month.
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:52.640
So it's it's it's still important.
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:56.640
And I'm lucky enough that I can say I go out and have a good old time with them once a month.
00:32:56.799 --> 00:33:00.160
I don't think a lot of mums can can say that they have that luxury.
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:03.119
So that's great, but it's definitely like quartered.
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:07.119
Um, my family on the other hand, though, I count them as part of my social life too.
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:10.559
We have Sunday lunch pretty much every Sunday if we're all in London.
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:16.720
And that has been uh a hugely, especially like I say, going through the separation with James.
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:20.160
That's been hugely important for my sense of family and security.
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:23.200
And a lot of the time James comes too if we're getting on.
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:26.480
But um, it's it's really, really, really important to me.
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:29.680
Yeah, it's that sense of uh like a support village, isn't it?
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:32.319
So you've got your friends, you've got your family.
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:39.200
Is there anyone else in your village that has helped you along the way or maybe that's helped you find your way?
00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:40.960
Well, you to be honest.
00:33:41.119 --> 00:33:45.680
I mean, you're the first person that I came across who was like, no, combi feeding is possible.
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:48.319
Because I was like, well, apparently it's just it's just not gonna happen.
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:54.319
And you're like, well, if you can, if you if you can breastfeed, if that is an option to you, of course you can combi feed and the nipple confusion.
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:58.079
That was the first conversation we had where I was like, oh, there's hope.
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:00.880
And I think subsequently we've had multiple conversations.
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:03.359
Weaning, I really struggled with with bodie.
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:06.319
Early waking is another conversation we're having recently.
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:14.639
Just to have someone who is knows more about this than I do, to basically message or email or call and just say, can you help?
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:16.800
And that's been really helpful.
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:22.639
Um, and as I would say, like I have a part-time nanny, and she's utterly, utterly fantastic.
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:29.280
And I think I credit her hugely for Bodhi's education and how advanced Bodhi is.
00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:33.280
Um, she's very social with her, takes her to a thousand classes a week.
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:35.360
And I that makes me feel really happy.
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:41.360
And I know that I, if I hadn't had her, I would have really, really struggled just to get back to work and to get back on my feet.
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:43.840
So yeah, I definitely lean on people.
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:54.559
Um, and I I don't I really commend and applaud mothers who are, you know, single mothers, which kind of I am to a degree now, um, and who are doing it on their own without any help.
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:59.280
And I just think more power to you, because that is that's superhero stuff.
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:00.159
Absolutely.
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:14.559
It's it's so refreshing to hear you talk about childcare, as there are many people in your position, like online, etc., that just don't talk about childcare or they're not honest about the childcare that they do have, and that really gets me.
00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:23.360
Because if you're not honest, I mean you know, I'm very open about the fact that we have an opair, my daughter goes to nursery, it's so important.
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:27.119
Otherwise, other mums just look at it and they just think, well, I can't do it all.
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:28.239
Well, this is the thing.
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:32.159
I think there's a lot of shame wrapped up in it, and I think this is the thing.
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:54.320
If I was in a position and I learned this, and and let's just say if I have another baby again one day, or let's just say hypothetically, James and I'd stay together and I reckon if we had by now, I we would either be trying, or or you know, if if fate allowed, I would be pregnant, I would take a full year away and I would dedicate that year to um being a quote unquote mom.
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:59.760
And what I did that I would not do again is I went back to work after eight weeks.
00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:01.760
So therefore I needed childcare.
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:05.840
Um, I tried to do it without at first because I'm self-employed, I can work from home.
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:12.079
And it was when Bodhi hit that, like after two months, eight more weeks of that, at that kind of four months mark, I was like, right, I can't do this.
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:16.400
And that's when I hired our nanny, who I don't really name or talk about on her request.
00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:17.599
Like she's not in the show.
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:21.199
People all know, like she didn't ever come on camera, and that's her request.
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.039
Um, but I talk about her a lot.
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:29.519
And um, she came in, and what that meant was I could go back to work, and like I say, she's part-time.
00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:34.159
She only works a few hours a day, Monday to Friday, and then I can be a mum as well, but I couldn't do it without her.
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:42.000
And I think that there's this huge kind of I don't know, it's almost like a Venn diagram, a gray area that people ignore.
00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:44.480
You can't work and be a full-time mum.
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:46.159
Like you have to kind of pick one.
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:48.880
And so, and there's nothing wrong with one or the other.
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:51.280
There's nothing wrong with either, but you can't do both.
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:52.000
You just can't.
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:53.360
And I hear this a lot.
00:36:53.679 --> 00:37:00.159
Someone I work with who I who I love but doesn't have children, recently said in a speech to our client, you know, you can have everything.
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:03.199
And I was saying, no, you you j and you learn when you have kids.
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:05.519
No, you absolutely can't, you have to pick.
00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:15.360
But there is this weird shame of like, you chose to do that and not almost like I think people ignore the fact that you can't go back to work if you don't have childcare.
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:17.199
So yeah, and you can't win.
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:21.360
And then obviously, if you're if you're a quote unquote stay-at-home mum, then like you do nothing with your life.
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:24.400
It's like being a mum is a full-time job, hence why you can't do both.
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:25.519
Exactly, exactly.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:28.639
And this brings me on to something I really wanted to ask you.
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:48.960
So, one of my final questions, which is something I see you talk about a lot in the fitness world, um, which is the the unsolicited advice or the amount of misinformation out there, especially in parenting, sleep, whether it's combi feeding, and how have you navigated that?
00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:52.239
So, especially with you know having an online presence yourself.
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:52.880
You know what?
00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:55.679
This has been quite interesting about my maternal journey.
00:37:55.840 --> 00:38:08.800
In the beginning, and you'll know this, and this is how I found you, in the beginning, when I was pregnant and when Bodie was a newborn, I was very much like entrenched in all the evidence-based advice, and like hence how I found you, and there's a couple of other people who I follow who I really like.
00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:15.760
Um, and I was I was like, okay, this is what I have to do on this week, and this is what I have to do at this age, and this is when I have to start implementing this, and da-da-da.
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:18.800
And it was great in a way, because like Wake Windows, you introduced me to.
00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:20.719
So it really set me up and it really helped.
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:30.159
But then there was kind of like a cliff edge point where I think I went from being that kind of mum to being a very instinctive mum.
00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:38.320
And I think in the beginning, I really needed that reassurance and the education and the facts to set me up and make me feel comfortable and confident in what I was doing.
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:45.360
And then there was, like I say, like a cliff edge, a drop-off, where actually I became more comfortable and confident being a quote-unquote instinctive mum.
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:49.280
And I think I think that that having the former definitely allowed for the latter.
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:52.880
I don't think that would have happened quite so comfortably if I hadn't had the education pilot.
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:58.320
But now I very rarely read about what I should and shouldn't be doing, and I'm very much led by my child.
00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:06.960
And also my self-assuredness that I love my daughter and her safety and her health and her happiness comes before everything and everybody else.
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:14.000
Um, and so actually, I don't really care what Joan in Leeds has to say to me about how to make Bodie because she doesn't know Bodie.
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:16.239
I do, she's my child, and I care more than she does.
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:18.639
And I'm very comforted by that acknowledgement.
00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:22.960
And I also think, you know, that was really driven home to me when James and I decided to separate.
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:27.440
Um, you know, I keep talking about this, but it's so relevant and it's so fresh as well in my parenting journey.
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:30.000
And I think so many people are like, oh, how could you do that?
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:30.559
You have a child.
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:38.960
And it's like one of the reasons why that decision was made is because it became very clear very quickly that this was not an environment that we that Bodhi we wanted Bodhi in.
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:45.039
Um, you know, you see all those behavioral tests online and you see how it can affect the children, and we very much made the right decision for her.
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.679
And so much, if we didn't have Bodhi, I think we'd still be together.
00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:50.960
So the irony is that people thought that's just what should keep us together.
00:39:51.039 --> 00:39:53.840
But that's actually what made us realize how not great it was.
00:39:54.000 --> 00:40:03.760
Um so yeah, I think just that self-assuredness, you know, that you love your child more than anyone, you care about their health and safety more than anyone, you know them better than anyone.
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:05.039
So trust yourself.
00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:10.639
And um, and since then, I just think it being a mother's become so much more enjoyable.
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:11.360
Absolutely.
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:21.760
And I I find it really difficult because we are we talk a lot about gut instinct and sitting with yourself as to what is right for you, whether that's feeding, whether that's sleep methods, etc.
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:29.519
So encouraging parents to use their instinct, but at the same time to be there for advice.
00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:31.840
And that dynamic I feel is quite difficult.
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:33.920
It's hard, but yeah, totally agree.
00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:37.599
Find your own way and essentially doing what works for you.
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:38.079
Right.
00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:40.800
Well, this is the thing, and you'll know this in the science community.
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:46.320
The the term cherry picking is seen as a negative thing, but I actually think as a mother, it's like a necessity.
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:54.719
So you know that you know the kind of advice of all the different things you should slash could do, and then cherry pick what, as you say, what works best for you and your child.
00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:59.599
And like I say, in my community, I'm I'm an evidence-based, very much science-based coach.
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:02.800
Um, and you know, everyone's like, oh, you're cherry-picking this study and that.
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:04.079
And I get it, I do get it.
00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:07.119
But as a mother, I actually think it is the only way to do it.
00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:10.239
Yeah, I mean, you have to do what sits right for you, don't you?
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:11.360
It's so important.
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:15.760
Which brings me on to my last question.
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:19.840
And that is, which one piece of advice would you give to a new parent?
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:31.599
So whether that's someone who's about to have a baby, has a baby already, is you know, part way through the early years, but what would your advice be for other parents out there?
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:41.519
So, okay, I want to preface this by saying that nobody can predict how quickly or you know, how easily I should say you're going to adapt to being a mother.
00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:44.960
I have friends who didn't born with their children until days after they were born.
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:48.000
I have friends, myself included, who didn't really think that they wanted kids.
00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:51.920
And the second they saw their baby was like, this is all I want to do for the rest of my life.
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:53.840
And you can't predict, we're all different.
00:41:53.920 --> 00:42:13.519
But I will say this there's a lot of doom and gloom stories out there about, you know, awful, awful birth stories, which again is brilliant that we're shedding light on the fact that these are the options, these are the things that can happen, and these are your options to try and have, you know, the safest, or most kind of, I guess, um, in control birth that you personally can have.
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:30.320
And I think that's great, but there's so many doom and gloom stories in there that I know that I started, and by the way, I had an emergency c-section and and you know, I didn't my butt and I did not go to Japan, but I was terrified of it for a long time while I was pregnant because all you hear is the negative.
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:33.760
But some people have like, I had an emergency C-section and it was fine.
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:34.880
It was absolutely fine.
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:37.280
And once I had her in my arms, all of it made sense.
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:42.800
She was safe, she was with me, and I'm so happy I had an emergency C-section, or that would not have been the outcome.
00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:55.599
And there's so many doom and gloom stories about something as tiny as the baby blues, and then obviously something as prevalent as post-matal depression, which my mother had after she had me, and it was awful, and she talks about it openly, and it's very inspiring.
00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:02.719
But some, you know, don't expect that the worst case scenario is inevitably what's gonna happen to you because that is what you think.
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:12.239
I think as a human, but especially when you're pregnant and you're about to be a mother for the first time, you're like, well, obviously it's all gonna go wrong for me because it's me and nothing ever goes right for me.
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:15.199
Actually, like it might be the best thing that's ever happened to you.
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:19.440
You might have a dream birth, you might not get, I didn't, I didn't get any baby blues.
00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:21.039
You might not get postnatal depression.
00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:23.039
Okay, you might, but at least you know about it.
00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:29.519
But don't project the doom and gloom onto you and be aware that let's just say you don't have a great childbirth.
00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:37.039
It happens, and you know, you might need to speak to somebody, you might not, but you you can manage it, you can go forward on your mothering journey.
00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:44.000
Um, and you might get postnatal depression, but at least you know what it looks like, what it sounds like, and reach out to someone if that happens, at least you have that knowledge.
00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:51.119
And I think there's just a lot of fear-mongering, and it's it doesn't need to be like that, even if it doesn't quite go to plan or doesn't quite go perfectly.
00:43:51.199 --> 00:43:52.559
You don't need to be so scared.
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:54.079
And it's so interesting.
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:59.760
So, although social media has been amazing for exploring like the negatives of parenting, for example.
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:04.159
Realising that not everyone has the perfect house or the perfect child.
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:12.800
I think it's also meant that sometimes we talk about how hard is so much that that almost becomes too much of a focus.
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:18.079
And speaking from memory, I think, am I right in saying that you really enjoyed the baby stage?
00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:23.280
I, so many people like said it to me, and I still don't understand it now.
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:29.760
We're like, oh my god, having it the newborn is the hardest bit, and you're so exhausted and the breastfeeding.
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:33.119
Don't get me wrong, there are hard moments, there are hard days.
00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:38.000
To me, put from my perspective, and again, I just want to preface this by saying we're all different.
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:42.800
The newborn phase was the best, easiest, the most like chilled out phase.
00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:50.719
And again, I went back to work after eight weeks, and I still look back on it now with huge nostalgia and warmth and love.
00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:56.719
Um, and I and I do think, you know, but every stage since you are going to have really hard days.
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:00.639
There were many times where it was three o'clock in the morning and I just lay in bed crying my eyes out.
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:01.599
Of course there were.
00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:10.960
You know, there were there are still points, you know, that I haven't not cried every day for the last week that my ex has had my child and they're in Portugal and I'm not there.
00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:13.119
And it, you know, there are still really hard moments.
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:20.559
There are moments when Bodhi's being an absolute nightmare and tries to run out into a road and it's like awful and terrifying and mortifying and everything.
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:35.280
But by and large, having Bodhi, and again, I I only speak for myself here, has been the best, most life-affirming, life-enhancing, full of love, funny, like hysterically funny experience of my life.
00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:37.199
And I again, I think, yeah, you hear that a lot.
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:38.480
It's so hard, it's so hard.
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:39.920
People don't tell you how hard it is.
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:41.119
I beg to differ.
00:45:41.199 --> 00:45:43.119
All people do is tell you how hard it is.
00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:43.920
Yes, exactly.
00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:45.440
Also great.
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:51.760
And like I say, like we talk about how hard it is, and that's all anyone talks about, and the postnatal depression and the birth plan that goes birth.
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:54.400
It's good that we know all this now, and I'm not poo-pooing that.
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:59.039
It's good that we have all this information, but there's also another side of that, which is like it can be great.
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:01.920
And yeah, that's been my experience of it.
00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:03.039
A hundred percent.
00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:10.000
And I I feel like when I post about my own parenting journey, so content that does well is me sharing the hard bits, of course.
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:12.639
You know, I'm finding this difficult, this is hard.
00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:21.920
And when when I'm positive and talk about like loving my kids and feeling connected, it's it's almost seen as a bad thing.
00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:32.000
This is the interesting thing about social media, and I don't think it's made better by all the virtue signalling, is the more you get, you're considered more authentic and more real.
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:43.280
If you share your horrific birth story or your horrific, you know, I don't know, postnatal recovery story or how hard it was, or you know, and and you get so much love and support for that.
00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:48.800
But the second you say, actually, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me, people are like, well, it's not like that for everyone.
00:46:48.880 --> 00:46:53.599
It's like, okay, but if we can say that you like oranges, why can't I say that I like apples?
00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:56.400
Or you say you don't like bananas, why can't I say I like plums?
00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:57.920
Like, what's the problem?
00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:02.559
And I think I can say, like, it is a good thing to have all of this authenticity out there.
00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:06.960
But I don't think that we should consider positivity a negative.
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:15.199
I think it's really for me personally, as a negative person, by nature, it's really important that I hear and see the positive stories.
00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:17.679
Oh my goodness.
00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:20.400
Oh, Clary, you are amazing.
00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:21.039
Thank you.
00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:24.639
Absolute superstar, superstar mummy, just doing your thing.
00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:27.360
Thank you for all of your advice and for coming on.
00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:29.360
I really appreciate it.
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:32.960
Thank you for listening to Positively Parenthood the podcast.
00:47:33.199 --> 00:47:41.039
We love to say here at Positively Parenthood that knowledge is power, and really hope that you found this episode super useful.
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:45.679
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