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Learning to trust the process, John Sonmez shares tips from the Complete Software Developer's Career Guide to


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00:00:02polymorphic podcast
00:00:06now here's your host Craig Shoemaker hey this is Craig Shoemaker and thanks for joining me here again on the polymer of podcast and whether you're starting out new or your season developer running to be intentional about your career is probably the most valuable step you can take at any stage of Life Today John sonmez shares his expertise on how you can improve your job consultancy or business right now show notes are found a polymorphic podcast.com shows / career. Guy you would be hard-pressed to find a hard-working guy than John sonmez between his countless YouTube videos and 50-odd pluralsight courses and his ability to maintain 3 careers all while regularly lifting really heavy things giandos what it means to build a system set goals and be successful along the way from managing a developer career in today's environment it's it's no easy task Beyond being good at code you really need to make so many decisions you need to decide what to learn
00:01:06when to learn it and when to apply that knowledge and this is all in the face of technologies that literally change overnight and on top of that you need to learn to work with others you need to Market yourself either as an employee or newer of some sort and do this all while trying to have a little bit of fun so this is where John's comprehensive book The Complete software developers career guy comes in rather than trying to figure out this all for yourself you can learn from the successes and the failures of someone who's really been there so please join me as I welcome back to the show John sonmez
00:01:44John welcome back to the show I'm really grateful to have you back here on the polymorphic podcast thanks Greg I'm I'm excited to be back so I thought we do a song off of somebody random questions first just for kind of fun and then we started dive into the meat of what we're here to talk about sure sounds good alright if you had to refactor a mission-critical feature with no unit tests or you can choose to add a new column in the database in production which one would you pick n y to the database in production because if you're adding I've done that before I've had to do that before as a hotfix and what I found was that adding the new, I figured out ways to add a new column without breaking everything that end in then actually changing a, this was a difficult part so it is in fact the first step of changing the column or change of the day that involved making once
00:02:44but adding the column which didn't break anything and then making the step of in the next update of the program making it right to the new column and then then the next step step deleting the old column that it that the data was and and it's so so much I've had to like figure out this delicate balance before so I think I could I could manage that a lot a lot better and that's where your physical training comes in because then that way you're not like you know could be wasted by the end of it coming out yes yes it is called the complete software developers career guide you describe some interesting characters now there was a guy that I we we hired as a contractor he would sit there and right code but at the same time he would take slices of pieces of salami and eat that and get like the grease all over the keyboard and I'm just
00:03:44you know you describe working with some interesting characters and how to deal with them what are some of the most interesting people you've encountered and what sort of strategies do you have for for working with maybe some eccentric people wow yeah yeah I've definitely work with some characters so one of them that comes to mind cuz I'm thinking of your salami guy we used to call him The Wanderer and it was just an older older guy at it when I was working at HP and he would basically like he would use find him Walking The Halls like he would most most of the day he would be walking like you dressed running to him wherever you're at so he would spend as little time as possible at his desk he would just had a big corporate environment like that you could you could do that so
00:04:31we didn't have to interact with him that much so I didn't have to it so he was doing some some QA and basically you would just contact him by email and I didn't try not to get into the hallway conversations with him because he would do pretty much anything to do to stop doing work so people that want to do anything to stop doing work so they want to talk to you so one of the things that stretches I would do is I would put headphones on and and like that's going to deter 50% of people I think but you know they really determine people vote will still talk to you while you put your headphones on Saturday night you did that whole swivel to the keyboard and then they still talk like this so then you just have to be direct and you just have to say look I am here to work and you know I really wanted to go to lunch and will will Chad and stuff but I want to make sure that I get my working or I'm working
00:05:30right now so I can't be distracted or can I use the Pomodoro Technique and so I would have an actual sign that said I but I'm on a pompadour and I would let people know and so that's what I think that the first stage for that I found for dealing with those kind of people like I said this is a subtle hints in the butt but eventually you rather than getting frustrated you just have to be direct and that's that's what I found like working with my team Shipshewana to Pomodoro Technique is I would just just say bleh bleh look I am I'm here I'm focusing on Pomodoro when I'm doing it makes me more efficient right it's not it's not being personal but I want you to know like I want to be upfront and clear so that I'm not being rude to you when you're trying to talk to me and you like he doesn't care what I'm saying it's it's that I'm actually just like I'm very focused on my work and very conscientious about it and you know I hope you can understand that and that people would would much rather have you say that and then they know how to operate around you
00:06:31then you doing passive aggressive behavior towards because eventually what happens if 1 people don't get the message you start to get better and then you start to do actual passive aggressive behaviors to them like you're rolling your eyes are getting frustrated every time and they're picking that up and it actually was kind of funny it if you've ever had a child you know that when you do that it makes them do it more because they're seeking validation cuz they're like this person cannot possibly be rejecting me I must now be more needy and so right children all the time like you can't just like they're coming back even stronger did you get that validation so it's yeah it's you know that's that's what I kind of scary but that of different aspects of a developer life so can you kind of give us a broad outline of what
00:07:31and then I don't use that lightly it's going to it's it's going to be somewhere between a 6 to 700 page book so it's it's a big buckets at um it's over 200,000 words and you know it and it has it does have an ambitious goal but it is a print from the soft the soft skills type of stand by what I mean is that it's not technical but it's telling you how to how to live how to be successful software developer so it's broken into five sections and the idea is that the first section is how to get started in software development or or how to help someone else get started right so if you've never like you know considering things like she's going to college or Boot Camp or self-taught and how to learn programming languages how to learn quickly all the kind of things that you would need to know at the very beginning stages and and they also to fill in the gaps for some people that are that are relearning or are learning new languages and things like that then the second section is goes into how to get a job and so it covers everything from how to get your first job 2 how to get a new
00:08:30job as a software developer to get how to negotiate your salary to how to pass the interview to resume to everything you would want to know about successfully getting a job and in the end really getting in the end of non-conventional ways right to some really good strategy for doing that and then the third section is everything you need to know about software development so this is designed to be not going into that but talking about all the basic concept that especially for someone who's new like what is Source control what is test-driven development you know what is QA and what are the basics of QA and in testing and what is continuous integration so all of those things if you if you think about there's a ton of stuff that you need to know and what are the types of software development you know web development old is almond all that that kind of stuff which first experience of a person might be a refresher but it's going to fill in that Gap and let you know what you need to know and then section 4 goes into how to work as a softball person that's what we were talking about how to get along with your boss
00:09:30along with your co-workers how to deal with discrimination and Prejudice in the workplace how to get a raise and how to handle performance reviews all the kind of stuff that you deal with as a working software developer in your in your life and then finally the last section is how to advance your career so this is where it's all about you know okay let's go out there in and should you speak at conferences right how do you get the certification will those help you all the kind of things that you can do to raise your salary so that the whole book is designed to be kind of every every software developer from A to Z everything that you will need to know from a soft skills approach for your for your career to be successful
00:10:15well I've read large portions of it and although it is at home and there's a lot of information there it's also really accessible because I think that the way that you wrote it isn't like these in a large chunks of really dense paragraphs it almost to me sort of reads like almost a movie script to wear your sort of going in the short bursts and you highlight certain things that are that are important and so it's it's very accessible content as well and I tried to keep the two two primary things from that book what when writing this when one is the tone of the very informal I'm just your friend and very editorial like but let's see how opinionated type of town and then humor in there and then the second one is the the short Punchy chapters right so that it's like you don't have this huge I hate nothing
00:11:15eight more than like trying to read a book and it's like oh I can't sit down and read this book because I know that this chapter is 15 pages long but if it's three or four pages if I go I could just exactly send you and you can go little by little are you can find the pieces of information that you need so those are the two things that I tried to really keep with this book
00:11:35I think the the parts of it that are probably most relevant to the people listening today or are they at the areas in which you kind of deal with where you are now you know dealing with your co-workers and your boss is around you and then and then where you might be going in your career and I thought to be interesting tell us a little bit about some of the guys that you give about dealing with a micromanaging manager to this is an interesting one I've had to deal with this a lot of people have dealt with this in the past and this is something that that you kind of have to have a strategy for because there's so many of these micromanaging managers right so what I mean by micromanaging manager is you know you know the type where it where they tell you what to do and how to do it and then check on you every 5 minutes to see if you're doing it correctly right so so I've had to deal with these for sure in the past and I actually it's kind of funny you know some some people obviously we are not going to like
00:12:35but you know that this is this is a story and it and it is it is pretty valid like like like it or not but one of the strategies that I did I figured out for dealing with this actually came from from now president Trump right so he's got a book called The Art of the deal and in that book he talked about this this micromanage that he was the micro manager okay so he had this hotel deal with with I forgot who it was now I mean obviously he's in a lot of hotel deals and his his wife was going in and in him and basically checking on the hotel call and asking them questions all the time and basically micromanaging them they are supposed to operate this and he was the investor in it and but they were constantly in whenever they would go you know that his wife would go to to visit the hotel and then she would get on a call with them and tell them all the things that they're doing wrong as they need to fix it the hotel in the hotel manager was he was getting
00:13:35so what he did was he hired he got rid of his general manager for the hotel and he hired this really accommodating french guy and I believe that's this is what it was called the story site leave the meat of it was this was what they did was they started every time they want to do anything anything with the hotel they called and asked him permission right so they wanted to change the way in the pillows or how they were folding the sheet they ass about this ass about this ass about this finally he realize what they are doing and he and he realize it was a good try to he's like oh I see I micromanaging and he basically said look don't ask me to the stuff you guys just run the hotel I'll trust you to do it and so that's the strategy that that I've actually employed I thought it was a pretty pretty brilliant which is that if you got a micromanaging boss the best thing that you can do is you can over report the hell out of things so that it does that they get tired of it right because and it's
00:14:35but even if it's not meant to do this in a passive aggressive way but it's just because you got to think about the psychology of why someone is micromanaging they're worried they're not getting enough information right and so if you show them that not only are you capable in and doing the job it it but you're giving them so much information right at or are you start asking them questions about everything that you do they're going to realize that they would rather have you just do it go in and do it and that's that make it be so exactly exactly so that's usually with a micromanaging person you know you're not going to change them completely but you can make it so annoying for them to deal with you liked it too real to throw it back and then say hey well I'm just going to ask you about every single decision I possibly make so that they'll they'll realize that maybe they should should back off a little bit it's not worth the worth it the effort
00:15:35people in different ways so you know once you said that present it may be that that person just decides while I may ask and require that much detail from other people but for John he's obviously got it handled so I can leave a little more loan exactly yep and it's you know that's exactly right I have property managers that manage my properties and you sometimes property managers can you can inflate expenses and have an essay repairs but every time that they have a repair for my property I give them the third degree right I email them back I want the details I want to see the invoices I'm asking them to get beds in question so so anytime that that the property manager might think oh maybe we should make this fake charge on dungeon they sick and there like maybe we should do that with someone else but right you don't let it's not worth that it's not worth the pain they have the stinging pain of it so you know if you don't like a general way to deal
00:16:35a micromanaging boss is really just to like I mentioned before is to just over report things is just because it because they they they may just be a real type a control freak and they need to know what's going on in sometimes all you all you have to do to alleviate that is just send them all the data that they need so they know what's going on all the time if they're that kind of person and that can solve it as as well so you just got to think about the psychology I think you're one of the key things that I've learned is just like I try to put myself into the other person's position I think why are they doing what they're doing and then from that perspective rather than thinking about how annoying this is it's like if you think if you understand what their motives are then you can you can react send you say oh well you know if I give them reports every week or every day then because they're trying to be in control of this Earth they're panicking then that would alleviate that and they're not going to micromanage me but sometimes you just can't
00:17:35able to do and you just have to understand that and you either have to accept that or you have to move on and find a new environment
00:17:45lost my train of thought I was going to ask something and I forgot that so that you talked about also is that work-life balance is a myth what do you what do you mean by that so you know I think that I found that balance in general I would say is it is a myth because there are periods which would usually most effective is periods of obsession followed by periods of rest right if you look at that training for events are going on at least the stuff that they certainly do that right now that you don't have consistency throughout what you're doing but that's that's just an Act 11 Flow it of things is to have those intense. And you know everything is cyclic even are biorhythms right we have a cyclic biorhythm of our energy levels and in sleep patterns throughout the day and so the work-life balance method is in in here's the here's the here's a big thing about it right so if you believe in work life
00:18:45you made that means that you have work and then you have your life and I don't know about you but most most people that I know work at least 40 hours a week sometimes 5000k and and most people sleep you know you should be sleeping about 8 hours a day so if you if you work 8 hours a day and you sleep 8 hours a day that's 16 hours okay so then you know you probably spend at least 2 hours eating right so that's 18 hours so you've only got twenty-four hours a day so that leaves you 6 hours a day okay and then you probably commute and and in what not or do you have some other stuff you have to do so maybe you have four hours a day so and then you got weekend right so basically like if you if you are doing work-life balance what you're saying is that that's you know a big chunk of your life right did the biggest shock of your life is is not fun and is not your life it's work it is bad
00:19:45and then you've got life and your precious life is 4 hours a day and then we can so what you're living for is for the content 5 write that in ended that your focus or for Friday right as well if we thanks goodness it's Friday because then that you're living for the weekend are you looking for your vacation so I'm going to Jordy of your life you're going to spend sleeping or are not being happy not happy because you're working right it's not life or you're not going to be living your life showing majority of your life you're not actually going to spend living so to me that just doesn't make sense that psychology doesn't make sense at all instead I rather look at it like this like your your life your work they're all the same it's all the same it's just your life right and in you live your life so you don't dread things you don't wait until 5 you don't wait to live on the weekends you're living your life now and your work is just part of your life right and especially being an entrepreneur now that that that's definitely to write like I don't I don't say okay well this is why I have a schedule
00:20:45have a schedule to have consistency you not having a routine is really important but might my life and my work there if they're mixed together there at you know when you when someone says this business or pleasure for the travel I usually say well it's it's both cuz I'm making my one of my business is pleasure ride like in and so I think it's just a healthier psychology is to think of you and here's the key phrase to this right that can turn this around is a lot of times I mean I catch myself doing this all the time is I say I have to do this I have to go to work or I have to be there instead of I get to because we forget that every day what we do we are making a choice and when we have that work-life balance that mindset of separating compartmentalizing Our Lives what does that happen is we feel like their stuff we have to do and then their stuff we get to do and to get you to is very very small but everything is get to do you choose to go to work you because you want the paycheck right you choose to do that
00:21:45who sings everything we do in life is a choice and so we know what I think when you break that mentality you can live your life right instead of putting your life on hold and waiting and some people some people get so so caught up in the work-life balance and this was me at one time that they basically put their life on hold until they can reach some level till I hit this level of income or two I retire then I will live my life and that's a shame because I mean you could die at a heart attack at at 50 and never retire and never have lived your life that's just just a crying shame so I'd rather see it it doesn't mean that you worked like a dog all the time and you don't have any other other time but if you enjoy that that's great right don't let someone say oh you're working 80 hours a week you're going to burn yourself out that you need to have work-life balance if you actually are living your life and you change your psychology and your mentality is I get to do this and you enjoy doing that and that's what you want to do I'm all for it right
00:22:45there's going to be probably. The time where you where you go through cycles and then you can you take extended periods of raster your ear doing something else but you know baby if you're going to be upset. That's a totally fine attitude to have but you just have to change that mentality to it to realize that I want to live all 24-hours in my life you know I guess maybe the 8th that you're sleeping but that would you say the most intense in and you called it a season in the book would you say the most intense season that you went through as when you committed to doing the 30 cross-eyed courses in a year yeah definitely I mean it was I was that time and then the previous two years because even when I wasn't doing the 30 for psych courses in the year there was a. Of time where I was working a regular job 8 hours a day and I was doing 4 hours of recording per night I mean I think the previous year I had done something like 15 or 20 for psych courses while doing a full-time job while you're working out every single day
00:23:45and I'm craving a Blog and Dan podcast introduce you to your wife why is this is John daughter was born about that time and I basically said look here's the thing cuz what we saw the parts that opportunity especially when I when I went to do that I said that for the next like couple of years I'm basically going to be gone like I I'm I'm I'm basically going to be working or working out and then spending a little bit of time like going to eat dinner and there's a little bit of time for us to be together in an InStep an attitude make like a couple hours a day right in watching TV and having a social life but this is going to suck right like we could be set for life right until the end. To wear and that's where I said with it with the seasons as it's like if you can bust your ass for 3 years and and and set yourself up for the rest of your life is now
00:24:45worth making that sacrifice right as if you start saying no work-life balance will then then you miss those shots where you've got it's an Arbitrage situation because it would bite by devoting that extra time in extra work and making my life someone miserable for 3 years and you know I'm not that there wasn't any enjoyment in it but but it was it was tough I I set myself up for the rest of my life for my entire future so wasn't it worth that right if I had had that psychology of the work-life balance then everyone's hello that's crazy that's your neglect in your health you're neglecting your family and neglecting everything but we made the conscious Choice together and decided yet this is worth making that sacrifice and that's the most important decision together exactly a lot of older entrepreneurs that have been really successful you know. I think they mean well but you hear this advice all the time because people ask them the other on podcast or whatever into Boston to say what would you have change
00:25:45and they always say I wouldn't have worked as hard when I was younger I would have had more of a balance in my life and not put in so many hours and I think they mean well and saying that and I think they honestly believe that but they forget they forget that you had to pay the dues they forget that the hustle that this obsessive nature and it's this way out of balance work ethic was required in order to get that success that they're enjoying now so now they can they can relax now they could work Less hours and then they're confusing what what's working for them now with with what was necessary in the passing it and I think it's a it's a dangerous poison to give young people today because they need to understand that like if you're going to be super 6 iPhone something you are going to have to put your your your nose to the grindstone and you're going to have to pay your dues and there are going to be periods of time where you know you can do wear that obsessive amount of work is going to be required in order to
00:26:45high level 6 I don't I don't know people that skate into it I don't know anyone that just like you know it works like 20 hours a week and then and they do it for like 10 years and then I'll send their super I'm sure there's probably some anomalies but in general every single successful person I've talked to you how's that. If you go back and you look at their history you'll see you'll see that. Of two to three years where they were they were obsessed about what they were working on
00:27:11so as you're looking at building up your career you talk about Authority and tell us what does it mean to borrow and create Authority so so this is something that I used a lot in my career early on and if you don't have a lot of experience right and you you don't have authority what you can do is in what you should do as far as thorny so when I was 1st I was I was really big on best practices are there Mike rear-ended test-driven development in all those things but I didn't have a lot of experience so it's really difficult to come in as a new guys young guys but she you know you're in your twenties you know how much experience and you say I hate you guys are doing it wrong let me tell you how you're supposed to do it and then you show them the right way to do it you're going to get resent resent did people aren't going to believe you you don't have any Authority right now but you can't really create Authority at that point because you don't have experience you your you're young so what can you do while what I
00:28:11and if I borrow some Authority from Bob Martin from from Uncle Bob I said what I said you know this is why I am not experience myself but what I'm telling you isn't coming from me it's coming from code complete this is what Steve McConnell said and code kabli are this is what Bob Martin said and clean code and this is why why it why I think that we should do this and if so you're you're utilizing someone else's authority to say it cuz it it it's really hard to argue cuz then then you what you're such a thing as don't argue with me I mean this is what Bob said right it's it's such a great shoot the messenger come on now you can you can now be a little bit more direct and and you can you can you stand on a firmer ground because you are a repeating what someone who has Authority who is an expert says and if they want to argue with you they're going to argue against the expert so I use the lies that a lot early in my
00:29:11rear end that help me to be able to make changes to be able in organizations to be able to get things going on the right track whereas if I had tried to just say no because I think this is best it doesn't it doesn't work it doesn't carry any weight when you're going to the new guy eventually though you want to stop borrowing Authority and you want to be to gain Authority and so there's a lot of ways to gain Authority one of the best ways easiest ways for soft developers to gain Authority and this I use early in my career is to create a blog and it was is funny because I would have these conversations with project managers with other members of the team and I would try to you know extol the virtues of doing test driven development or like why we should delete comment, and out code in the code base not save it like we have Source control we don't need to save this stuff just in case we want none, this out in and have this color right if we we have Source control and I would explain this and and no one would take me seriously right because
00:30:11whatever I'm just some guy telling them this and they've got their opinion but it was funny because I would start writing this stuff in my blog and then all the sudden right it was it was just the fact that it's written just the fact that it's published on the internet which anyone can do gave some level at a higher level of authority right and then there's multiple reasons for one just because we have that perception into because they could read through it as if I'm trying to give them that information I'm getting interrupted but if they're reading through it and there's not an ego involved in there right there they're less likely to to be combative and then you can take it step for the right I remember the first time I was ever on a podcast when I was on hanselminutes right all the sudden like it was like people now okay now John sonmez might know what he's talking about right at the at the job I was working at him because he was on hey did you hear about hanselminutes Scott Hanselman interview them so so there you go right so that was instant Authority credibility and then you know but the biggest one
00:31:11really came went when I probably soft skills wouldn't you know I traditionally published book then then you've got some sure then now you can say I wrote the book on the subject so now I can say I can really with authority say I am the expert on soft skills for self developers that's that's what I actually wrote the book on the subject is it is the publish book on it and so that gives you Authority so there's a lot of different ways that you can you can create that Authority which is going to help you either in your career right if you want to influence teams if you want to get a better job get a raise or having that having that Authority really help me to get a raise right if you want to become like a senior fellow or something like that in it distinguish technologist or whatever titles that they give for those really high levels in incorporation on the technical track you're going to have to have that kind of authority but it can also help you if you want to be a freelancer or if you're doing swords what I'm doing like an entrepreneurial thing you want to sell things to developers you want to have some credibility and authority to this is for people to fall
00:32:11what you're saying so that's those are the techniques that you can use it and I'll add one more thing to this it's a little bit little bit long-winded but I think this wasn't one tip also is helpful which is that when you say things say them with conviction so I've always a fight with Peter teal on on who said this first but you're strong convictions loosely held I swear that I said it first but he's more famous so I guess he gets the code after douching will just be just be really convicted about about the fact that you said I think there's a song I think a lot of people invented that simultaneously cuz it just it just it flows right so but but with the strong convictions Lucy help what that means is that when you say something okay you could be wrong it's fine but in the best of your knowledge right if you think of this is correct say it with conviction don't be if he don't be like yeah
00:33:11you know I kind of think just a business this is it right you you preach it okay and if you're wrong come out and say I'm wrong it's fine I know but but you got no one wants to get behind someone who doesn't speak with commit in fact the number one thing that's going to convince people whether not your right or not is not the logic of what you're saying honestly I mean this is unfortunately this is true it's going to be the way that you deliver it and if you deliver it with conviction you will convince you will turn hearts in mind way better than you will if you if you say it and it if you wishy-washy right I mean even when I'm telling you now I am saying this as it is an absolute fact cuz I believe this to be true if I'm if I'm on here and I'm telling you and I'm saying it in a different way if I'm saying yeah you know okay well here's something and you know you can you can you can do this if you want and end this is what I've kind of found for my own experience but you should if you say things with conviction sometimes I think if you can come across
00:34:11that that can give you Authority might not work for everyone but just in my personal experience I found right that's so we can meet you and your you would not buy that right so it doesn't burn is going to automatically buy what you're saying but that's going to give you a big bump and Authority as opposed to on this a little bit in in one of your other explanations but you see developer careers kind of taking the form of about three different tracks so you got a career developer you got a freelancer entrepreneur entrepreneur grammar right tell us about those and and
00:34:53can you switch back and forth between the two of them like what is that look like so I did a post a while back that as I was discovering this on on the four levels of freedom for for a software developer and edit it sort of relates I think between these these tracks right so majority of helpers going to be what I call crew developers which means that you're going to work for someone else for your for your career and that's what you want to do and there's nothing wrong with that I think majority of people are actually going to gravitate towards that and like I said there's nothing wrong with that some people don't want the stress of the other stuff they just want the shop and do their job and they didn't they really like solving a problem right and if you really like coding and solving problems that's the best route for you because because the other stuff will distract you but you have the least amount of Freedom honestly like you you don't have location Freedom like you're going to be receiving to where you're going to probably come in to work or time freedom to have to work certain hours right and what you work on is
00:35:53they restricted as well but you're going to get a steady paycheck and that's that maybe be worth it for you and also you don't have much hostility right so what I mean by that is that you're not going to like working the creative helper you're not going to suddenly become rich but you're also probably not going to become poor right here you've got that that study now freelancer is what I'd call it the second level of Freedom or the second choice which is in this is usually a lot of crew developers dreams until they become a freelancer and they realize that they needed they traded one boss for a whole bunch of buses right so this is basically you go out and you you turn your own business you might be what you're working for multiple client some people call themselves Freelancers and they only work for one client that's really just staff augmentation that's it I paid contractor it's not really freelancing it's great I dive I've done it myself I'm not knocking anyone who does that you can build a higher rate probably than an employee but but when I'm talking
00:36:53glad to hear I'm talking about literally you have multiple clients and you are going and getting the working in filling out an hourly rate and you cover your own overhead right so you're only billing x 4 hours work on their project again you've got it in that in that choice you are going to have more freedom okay because now your location you can work from where you want for the most part right unless you have to go to send clients and you might have some restrictions you your time you can work whenever you want pretty much to a pretty large degree and you can work on not answering what you want will you can kind of cuz you can choose what clients to work on what project to work on so you can sort of work on what you want and you can sort of have more control over how you do it so you've got a lot more freedom there your your income kid can be higher right so you can you could bill I mean there was points when I was in freelance work as a developer when I was building $300 an hour right as of as a freelancer
00:37:53if I do freelance coaching I can Bill $2,000 an hour so if freelance I think I think developer though I think it's tapped out no one's really going to pay you more than $300 an hour to write code in general I found him in there in there might be some rare exceptions but you're going to still cap out there so it is not the maximum you can make zero money right it is all depend on you so there's no more volatility there you're probably not going to get rich being a freelancer but you can make a lot more money but you're carrying a lot of that risk and in your caring a lot of a lot of that burden in the maintenance and overhead and you got to find the clients and you got to figure out how to Market yourself and all that and then you've got the third level which is the ontra programmer the entreprenuer where you're cleaning the product you're creating something that you want you're using your skills that you want to create that that you're putting on the market near selling for a price this this level of freedom is is the one when I became a freelancer I realize oh wait I don't that's not quite the free
00:38:53I want I want to actually I want to actually be able to create a product I don't want to have 15 bosses I want to be able to create something and end in 9/10 be disconnected from time because in the other two scenarios you're treating time for money right you're you're you're working salary or you working hourly rate you're trying to have her money but as someone who creates a product and sells it on the internet right you it's disconnected so you can do the work and you can keep getting residual paychecks and didn't getting paid while you're not working so that's leverage there that's the first place that you actually see real leverage this could also mean creating an agency where you have multiple Freelancers working for you again this is is creating a business that at this point now if you look at Freedom you've got the ultimate freedom in and location you can do whatever you want you can I know people to travel around the world right you can time you got Freeman time you can do your work whenever you want right in fact you can stop working and you can still make money in in the in a lot of scenarios now what you work on you have freedom in choosing it
00:39:53so much as the market will pay for it so if you can just work on whatever you want to you have to work on what people will buy so you do are slightly restricted there with that and then if you look at the Vault ility it's extremely bought how you can become super rich right this is this is the path where you can make a ton of money I mean like you can make millions of dollars you could Mark Zuckerberg adore you know or SnapChat or you know one of those like you could you can do that for sure but you could also make 0 right or negative okay I have as an entrepreneur worked on on stuff for a month for 2 months and then at the end try to sell that thing and no one buys it or you get sued or something bad happened are you get a bunch of retards I had to write I hired someone to to create a course for me and they plagiarized the entire course and I sold it to my customers and I mean I figured out a way to work it out and got the original author in and didn't lose my
00:40:53shirt on it but I could have very easily been in the whole 20 grand and 3 months of work right at that that's that's the scenario so there's a higher volatility that's not for everyone but it gives you that that higher level of freedom and then finally there's actually a fourth level so those are the three I should say pass but the fourth level if we're talking about the level of freedom is the entrepreneur that's that's already independently wealthy so they've made money from the other thing that got investment they've got passive income they've got some other vehicle or business that and then and then they get the program and what they want this is the indie game developer this is the person the artist a true artist where where the money doesn't matter and in and what's really interesting about this is sometimes these people make the most money because they say it's it's so if you've been other poker term of scared money they don't have any scared money in the game they're they're totally free they're totally being an artist bertolini building the same they want probably the mind the guy that created Minecraft is a billionaire now right that he would probably fall into this category
00:41:53because he didn't create Minecraft to make money he wasn't due to the market he didn't cuz he just wanted to do this thing and and and he did and that's what he spend his time on and then that would that passion project became the thing but it's really hard you can't jump to level four until because while you've got these pressures of trying to make money and paying your mortgage and stuff you're going to be influenced by the market so that serve the ultimate goal and that's that's kind of where where I operate now with simple programmer mostly is in between 3 and 4 because I still have some pressure is on on on making money but I pretty much do do what I do because I want to do it now cuz I don't I don't have to work I couldn't so so that's that's those are that there's my long answer for the free pass
00:42:37that's awesome that's a great and very clear picture of different ways that you can take
00:42:46so if people want to know more about your book and I'm worried about you where should they had over so I believe that if this is if we're airing when that the books should be launching it'll either be launching like right now or this week the best thing to go to do is just to go to Amazon and go to and look for a complete offer to help if you want to be notified of it or are you want to get some of the bonus material and stuff that they were going to put out cuz I need to put out the deputy some bonus material you can go to simpleprogrammer.com forward slash career guide and that will that will either point you to Amazon or it will have you sign up so you can get a bonus or probably both probably wasting some bonus chapter bonus content videos and things like that with with the book and it's going to be I mean super super deal on the launch 700-page Book 99 Cents the Kindle version on the lodge and then I think I'm free I don't know we're going to pay the price of paper
00:43:46back at but it's going to be extremely cheap for the launch
00:43:51excellent awesome well I'm looking forward to it and I hope people get a lot of a lot of great advice and and an actionable stuff that they can use from the book my goal with this but honestly I don't seem like an ambitious goal but I'm an ambitious dude is is an Amazon on Amazon that will plan on selling the 10 to 15 thousand copies maybe more on Amazon that's why I'm aggressively pricing it and and forward to to become the number one best selling soccer development book of all time that is my my goal my ambition for the book and you know I put my heart and soul and I'm not doing it just for the exactly not doing it for the money you don't make a lot of money but because I really want to create this guide that every every developer says I must had it you should have this on your shelf so let's do it everybody I mean especially at $0.99 to begin with even if it's 10 bucks I mean
00:44:51you know go out and get your copy cuz there's a lot of really great information in here and it spans like John saying the breath of your entire career so there's certainly something in there for everybody appreciate your endorsement of it absolutely have to do this again real soon
00:45:11well I do thank you for welcoming me back I know it's been awhile since I've had a show please do check out John's book and look for more interviews and content coming here at the Pottermore podcast
00:45:23thanks a lot and I'll talk to you soon

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