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Hi, it's time for another Tiffany Has a Question.
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So if a company tells you it approves more than 99.9%, I'll repeat that, 99.9% of pregnancy accommodation requests.
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Does that first make you think that they're doing an incredible job?
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Because apparently I've trained my brain not to work that way anymore.
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Because my first thought was, really?
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And my second thought was, is I want to see this spreadsheet.
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Welcome to Please Me Your Trauma.
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If you're back for another episode, welcome back.
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You know what to do, pull up a chair.
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And if this is your first episode, welcome.
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We're so glad you found us.
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We have a lot to talk about.
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Okay, a quick heads up before we get into this episode.
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We're gonna be talking about pregnancy at work today.
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And that includes pregnancy-related medical emergencies, a mention of miscarriage, and some really difficult postpartum experiences.
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I want to be clear that I understand if this is a tender subject for you right now, and I want to encourage you to go take care of yourself.
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Come back when you're ready for a future episode.
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Today we're talking about pregnancy, bathroom breaks, breast pumps, Amazon, federal employment law, and somehow statistics.
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Because I started reading a lawsuit against Amazon.
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And then, as we all know, what happens, I saw one number that made my researcher brand go, huh?
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And you know what happens when I go, huh?
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It's time to open another tab.
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And then another one, and another one.
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And suddenly it's three hours later, and I've got approximately 17 browser tabs open.
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I'm reading EEOC regulations for fun.
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Who does this?
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And I'm wondering how this has become my life.
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But the farther I went, the less this story felt like an Amazon story.
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And the more it started feeling like a much bigger conversation that I feel like we're not having about what happens when the policy says one thing and the employees experience something completely different.
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So let's talk about it.
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Okay, so it started with Amazon.
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Earlier this month, four Amazon warehouse employees filed a proposed nationwide class action lawsuit accusing Amazon of systematically failing to accommodate pregnant employees.
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Now, before we go anywhere with this, let's all be clear, these are allegations.
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This case is new, nothing has been proven.
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Amazon has the right to dispute the claims, and they absolutely get the right to do that.
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I'm not here to decide the lawsuit and who wins and who won't.
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What caught my attention were the things that these women say that they needed.
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And we're not talking about anything particularly exotic or hard to find.
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Chairs, additional bathroom and water breaks, time away for prenatal appointments, pregnancy-related medical needs.
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The lawsuit alleges that workers are asked for medical documentation for even very basic requests, and that pregnancy-related appointments and emergencies could eat into unpaid time-off balances.
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And we all know that once those balances run out, the warnings could start.
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One of the plaintiffs, Wilhelmina Barkley, says she was taken out of the Rochester warehouse in a wheelchair because of a pregnancy-related emergency and later hospitalized.
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The next day, according to the complaint, she received a termination warning.
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And five days later, she was fired.
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I actually had to sit with that for a hot minute because that's not an abstract HR process anymore.
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That's a woman leaving work in a wheelchair, going to the hospital, and then worrying about whether she still has a job.
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To me, that's Frame's employee experience.
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And Amazon responded to this claim with a statistic.
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The company claims it's proved more than 99.9% of pregnancy-related accommodation requests during the previous year.
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99.9.
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And maybe you hear that and think, wow, that's incredible.
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And yes, if that number means exactly what people naturally assume it means, that would be an incredible number.
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But for me, I looked at it and immediately thought, really?
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Because I'm also an annoyingly data-driven human, and you tell me 73%, I normally say, okay, 86.4%, fine.
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You tell me 99.9% while defending allegations describing a very different experience?
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Now, I want to see your homework.
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I need to be really clear here.
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I'm not saying Amazon invented that number.
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I have no evidence of that.
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It could be completely accurate based on how Amazon calculates it.
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My question is simpler.
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What exactly are we measuring with this number?
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Because I want the denominator.
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I want to know what counts as a request.
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I want to know what a quote unquote approved means.
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What does approved mean?
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Did the requester get exactly what she asked for?
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Does it mean an alternative was offered?
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Does it mean somebody eventually approved something?
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Or does it mean the accommodation was actually implemented?
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Because all of those things are not the same.
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Okay, and here's where I got a little more nerdy and found it more interesting.
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So under the Pregnant Workers' Fairness Act, an employee doesn't necessarily have to fill out some mythical magical HR form to ask for the accommodation.
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In fact, it doesn't have to be in writing.
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She doesn't have to walk in into HR and announce, I hereby invoke my rights, pursuant to the Pregnant Workner's Fairness Act.
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Thank gosh.
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Because no normal human being talks like that.
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Or so hey ho.
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And honestly, if your employees reach the point where she's speaking to you in statutory citations, I mean, there might already be a pretty deep problem.
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Instead, she may simply say to her supervisor, hey, I'm pregnant and I'm having a hard time standing for this long.
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I may need to sit sometimes.
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That can officially start the conversation.
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So now I have another question.
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If she says that to her supervisor, but never makes it into whatever formal system the company uses, is she considered in the 99.9%?
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I mean, I don't know.
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If she starts the process, but her paperwork doesn't get returned in time, where does that go?
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Is there denied or an incomplete, withdrawn?
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I want to know, does it disappear?
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I just don't know what we're doing with this.
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And if HR technically approves the accommodation, but the manager makes using it miserable, where does that number count?
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Because that gets us to where I think the real question here is does approve mean accommodated?
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And I have a hard time thinking that those are automatically the same thing.
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Okay, maybe the dashboard isn't lying.
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I went looking for enough public information to recreate that 99.9%.
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And it'll tell you in all the things I found, I just couldn't find it.
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Okay, again, that doesn't prove a number is wrong.
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It means I just don't know what that number tells me yet.
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And that's really important distinction because organizations often do this.
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They measure what's easy to count, accommodation approval rate.
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Fantastic.
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Put it on the dashboard.
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Green arrow, 99%.
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Woo-boo! Everybody in the office feels fantastic.
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I mean, maybe somebody gets a bonus.
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But am I the only one sitting here thinking, okay, now I need more?
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How long did the approval take?
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What actually got implemented?
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How many people gave up halfway through this process?
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How many quests never made it into a formal system?
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Did someone accumulate attendance points while waiting?
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Did the employee have to ask again because what was approved didn't actually solve the problem they were trying to solve?
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Okay, and here's the harder question that I kept running into.
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Did this employee feel safe using the accommodation once she got it?
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I mean, that's what I really want to know.
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So again, maybe the dashboard isn't lying.
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Maybe you're just asking the wrong question.
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And honestly, that became the thing I couldn't stop thinking about because you know me, I have to think about things.
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So at that point, I kept looking.
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And I thought, okay, is this just an Amazon issue?
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Or is Amazon just the company that happened to be in the news when I was looking?
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So I kept looking, and shocking, this little Amazon episode completely fell apart because I started finding variations of this everywhere.
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Earlier this year, the EEOC sued hotel equities over what it says happened to a pregnant front desk clerk at a Hilton-branded hotel in Illinois.
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So the Hilton Brand branded hotel in Illinois, this employee had a pregnancy-related medical need that made it difficult standing.
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So you might ask, what did she need?
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That's when I'm going to blow your mind and say, a chair.
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That's it.
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A chair.
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A coworker apparently found one for her that she could use and still do their job, problem solved.
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Except, according to the EOC, management later removed the chair and then replaced it with a small backless stool.
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And then went so far as discouraging her from even using that.
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The agency alleges that she was later fired in retaliation for requesting accommodation.
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Again, let's be honest, active litigations, allegations.
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There is a process for figuring out what exactly happened, and there's two sides to every story.
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But what I couldn't get past was the simplicity of what she requested.
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A chair.
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And can we acknowledge something really basic for like a hot minute?
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Do these people understand how much swelling can happen when you're growing an entire human?
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I mean, I remember thinking my ankles can basically resign from the original job description.
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My shoes became more of an aspirational concept.
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Wedding rings looks at your finger and says, You know what?
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I think I'm gonna head out for a while.
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Your center of gravity has moved, your body is doing basically all kinds of bizarre things.
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You cry at commercials, there's another person you're growing.
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To be sure, let's make the chair controversial.
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And this is where, again, my former HR brain and my regular human brain started arguing with each other because I understand operational needs, right?
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I understand staffing, I understand that accommodations are not always as simple as everybody on the internet thinks and wants them to be.
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There are real jobs, there are real safety issues, real production needs, real hardships.
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And to be clear, I know all that.
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But sometimes, sometimes it really isn't just a chair.
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And I think we get so comfortable talking about essential functions or operational requirements, business necessities, and undue hardship that we forget how ridiculous some of these conversations sound when you translate them back into normal human language.
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She's pregnant, her feet hurt, can she sit down, please?
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To me, that's the conversation.
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But what does this actually cost?
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Because apparently I enjoy destroying a perfectly good afternoon with more research.
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So I started looking at accommodation costs too.
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Now, this isn't specific to pregnancy.
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So before anyone sends me an email, I know different data set, but Jan or the Job Accommodation Network surveys employers about accommodations they've actually implemented.
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And among employers who reported cost information, 61% said the accommodation costs them.
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Ready for it?
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Nothing.
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Zero.
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Another 33% reported one-time expense with a median around$300.
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Again, I'm not pretending that represents every workplace or every request or every need because it doesn't.
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But it reinforces something pretty simple in my mind.
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A lot of accommodations are not multi-billion dollar organizational interventions.
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Sometimes they're incredibly ordinary changes, which brings me right back to the chair.
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Federal litigation over a chair.
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And at some point, I need us to ask whether we've gotten so used to treating human needs as operational problems that we've forgotten how to just, I don't know, be human and normal with others.
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People are going to keep getting pregnant.
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And maybe this is stating the obvious, but apparently we're going to state it anyway, because that's what I do.
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Pregnancy is not some weird workplace trend Gen Z invented on TikTok.
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It's been happening for a long time now.
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And as it turns out, you know, it's fairly important to the continuation of civilization.
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I haven't seen Let the Human Species Quietly Disappear as anyone's strategic plan lately.
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So unless we build some utopian society where a woman's only job for nine months is to recline comfortably, grow a human, get her feet rubbed, and occasionally be asked, excuse me, madame, how would you like me to feel for your pillow?
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Pregnant women are gonna have to work.
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They're gonna have to teach, lead teams, run meetings, operate equipment, work front desks, stand on production floors, take calls, pay mortgages, take care of the children they might already have, and at the same time, grow another human.
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I mean, I've done it three times, but just saying all that sounds pretty oppressive when you say it out loud.
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So maybe workplaces should stop acting surprised.
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Pregnancy sometimes requires an adjustment.
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Literally, every executive in your organization got here through some version of this pregnancy process.
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I mean, we have planned for it.
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So in my research, US Steel raises a different question.
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So at the end of 2025, the EEOC sued the company over the treatment of an experienced mining equipment operator who had a high-risk pregnancy.
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According to the agency, she wasn't saying, I can't work.
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She needed to stay off the equipment that caused the more physical jarring.
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The lawsuit says that she was initially placed in an involuntary leave.
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And when she returned, the EEOC alleges that she was first assigned work that didn't fit her restrictions and was later moved out of her usual role into a lower earning office assignment.
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That's crazy.
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And that made me stop for a completely different reason.
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Because technically she still had a job, right?
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So, like, check.
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But that doesn't mean nothing was lost.
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Let's think about it.
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She lost her income and her responsibility, her status.
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Maybe the feeling of being good at something, or feeling like she knew how to do the work.
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I think sometimes organizations look at that and say, eh, she's still employed.
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Okay, but how did she experience it?
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I mean, those are two different questions.
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The newer law actually recognizes some of this.
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So again, under the PWFA, temporarily being unable to perform one essential function doesn't automatically mean someone is no longer qualified.
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Okay, right?
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That makes sense.
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There are circumstances where temporarily suspending that function may be reasonable.
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But that doesn't mean employers have to throw job requirements out the window.
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I mean, undue hardship still matters.
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Safety matters.
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The actual job matters, but the starting question becomes different.
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You can't do this one thing right now, so I guess you're done.
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Is there a reasonable way to keep this person contributing?
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I think in my mind that's a much better question.
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So then there's Polaris Industries.
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And according to the EEOC lawsuit, a pregnant employee was receiving attendance points for pregnancy-related absences related to medical appointments.
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Her physician restricted her to no more than 40 hours a week.
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Okay, reasonable.
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Meanwhile, the company allegedly continued requiring mandatory overtime, and she was warned that another attendance point could result in termination.
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Eventually, she resigned.
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The case was later settled.
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And here's what I think we all should picture.
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Doctor says 40 hours.
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Great.
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Operation says mandatory overtime.
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The attendance system says, points.
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And this pregnant employee is staying right in the middle.
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Which rule is she supposed to break?
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Nobody has to call her the office and say, we don't care about you.
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I mean, all those systems can communicate that all by themselves.
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And honestly, that's a lot what the Amazon plaintiffs are describing too.
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One system says we accommodate pregnancy.
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Another says, you only have this much time available.
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Another says, you're away from your workstation.
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Another says you're getting an attendance warning.
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And the employee is standing in the middle trying to figure out how she somehow become the problem.
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And I don't want to rush past this because I could sit here all day and talk about reasonable accommodation, interactive process, undue hardship, attendance systems.
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I mean, those are all HR words and HR systems, and I can explain them to you at nauseam, which you probably don't want me to do.
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But yet the employee isn't experiencing the quote unquote interactive process.
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She's still experiencing Tuesday.
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I mean, she woke up nauseous, she barely slept, her back hurts, her feet are swollen.
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She has an appointment she's too nervous to mention to her supervisor.
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Maybe something doesn't feel right and she's already scared.
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But she needs her paycheck.
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She needs the insurance.
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There's probably a pile of laundry sitting at home silently judging her.
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And then on top of everything else her body is doing, she picks up another job managing the organization.
00:17:58.559 --> 00:17:59.519
Who do I tell?
00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:01.519
Did HR get my paperwork?
00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:03.279
Does my supervisor know?
00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:05.200
Why did I get an attendance point?
00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:07.200
Am I allowed to leave for my appointment?
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:09.119
Am I asking too much?
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.559
Do my fellow coworkers think I'm getting special treatment?
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:14.160
Have I become annoying?
00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:16.319
Is this going to affect how they see me?
00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:18.319
Am I still going to get promoted?
00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.839
Am I still going to have this job after the baby comes?
00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:25.759
None of that information appears on approval percentage.
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:28.160
Then there's the part that's even harder to measure.
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:29.359
The social cost.
00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:30.720
The sigh.
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:31.839
The eye roll.
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:33.440
The again.
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:42.160
The manager who technically says yes, while also at the same time making it painfully obvious how convenient your yes is.
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:45.680
The coworker making a comment about having to cover for you.
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:52.559
The moment you start wondering whether you've gone from a high performer to being labeled as a problem employee.
00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.759
At that point, she's not just asking for a chair.
00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:00.240
She's asking, do I still belong here now that I need something from you?
00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:02.720
And again, very different question.
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:06.319
Then the baby is born and the body doesn't get the memo.
00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:10.319
Another case I looked at involved the security assurance management.
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:14.480
The employee was a special police officer, and this is what kills me.
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:24.960
According to the EOC, she was removed from assignment during pregnancy because a client didn't want her at that site while she was pregnant.
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:26.640
The audacity.
00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:28.400
Then she had the baby.
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:31.200
She went back to work and she needed a pump.
00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:35.839
And apparently, this comes at a surprise in some workplaces.
00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:42.240
Let me let you know, the human body does not immediately return to factory settings as soon as you popped out a baby.
00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:52.319
I promise you there's no restart button, there's no software update, no little message saying, congratulations on baby, please install version 2.0 and report Monday at eight.
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:55.200
If you don't know, her body's still doing things.
00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:57.039
A lot of things.
00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:03.359
According to the EOC, this employee didn't receive adequate pumping breaks or an adequate place to pump.
00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:05.599
She leaked breast milk through her uniform.
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:08.880
And I can attest, this is a very embarrassing experience.
00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:10.480
She pumped in her car.
00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:12.880
And this is where the jokes stopped for me.
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:19.359
Because imagine that you just had a baby, you're back at work, maybe leaving that baby was hard enough.
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:28.079
Your body is still recovering, and now it's Tuesday afternoon and you're sitting in your car with a breast pump because your employer couldn't figure out a workable space.
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:33.039
Then, according to the lawsuit, the situation contributed to missed work.
00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:33.759
Shocker.
00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:35.279
The employee complained.
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:39.920
She was disciplined for absences, and eventually she stopped receiving shifts.
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:45.039
And here I am, I just keep thinking, at what point did she become the performance problem?
00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:49.440
How did an organizational failure become her attendance issue?
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:58.160
Because an accompanying may experience all of those things as separate categories: pumping problem, attendance problem, scheduling problem, performance problem.
00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:01.599
But to her, it's just my employer.
00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:04.880
It's one experience, it's one relationship.
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:06.880
The law is pretty clear about pumping.
00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:10.960
Congress passed the Pump for Nursing Mothers Act at the end of 2022.
00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:17.920
In it, generally covered employees have rights to reasonable pumping breaks for up to a year after birth.
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:25.039
And the employer's obligation is to provide an appropriate private space, not a bathroom.
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:27.599
Not, but it's a very nice bathroom.
00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:32.640
Not you put a chair in there, not but it's the executive bathroom.
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:34.480
Not even if you added a candle.
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.440
They clearly state not a bathroom.
00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:41.119
And I think it's funny that Congress actually had to put this in writing.
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:43.599
And here's where this loops back into the bigger issue.
00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:51.279
If the policy says, of course you can pump, but your productivity system punishes every minute your way, can you actually pump?
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:53.680
That's the distinction I keep coming back to.
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:55.359
The policy says yes.
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.759
The surrounding system whispers, yes, but you probably shouldn't.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.519
And this is still happening.
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:08.319
Then last month the EOC sued North American Lighting over pregnancy-related accommodations at its Illinois facilities.
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:15.759
The allegations included employees with lifting restrictions being sent home or placed on leave rather than being accommodated.
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:17.039
Are you kidding me?
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:23.759
One employee allegedly run in a doctor's note and was sent home and fired the next day.
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:32.079
The lawsuit also includes allegations involving inadequate pumpkin spaces against allegations, still being litigated.
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:34.240
But now, look what we've got.
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:43.039
Amazon, hospitality, steel, manufacturing, security, different workplaces, different jobs, same basic tension.
00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:49.039
What happens when an employee's body no longer fits neatly into the system that we designed and created?
00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:54.079
And that's when I started asking, okay, what does the law actually require now?
00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:56.079
Because the law changed.
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:57.599
Here's a short version.
00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:05.359
For decades, one of the major federal pregnancy protections was the Pregnancy Discrimination Act of 1978.
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:09.839
In plain language, it says you don't get to discriminate against someone because she's pregnant.
00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:21.680
Important, absolutely necessary, but there's a gap between don't discriminate her and you need to actually work with her when pregnancy creates a temporary workplace limitation.
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:25.680
And that gap visually becomes young versus UPS.
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:26.480
Here's the story.
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:29.039
So Peggy Young was a UPS driver.
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:30.319
She became pregnant.
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.759
Her doctor, rightfully so, gave her a lifting restriction.
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:36.079
I mean, that's not crazy.
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:46.559
UPS accommodated some other workers with temporary lifting restrictions, but Young argued similar flexibility wasn't available to her.
00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:53.440
So basically, what I'm hearing is like somebody had a back issue and they had a doctor's note that said they needed to do lifting restrictions.
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:58.960
But she's growing a human baby with a doctor's note and they're not going to I don't even know.
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:01.039
So Young ended up on an unpaid leak.
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:03.519
Her case eventually reached the Supreme Court.
00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:14.000
And a question I'm concerned about is why shouldn't a pregnant employee have to find another category of worker and say, you helped him, therefore you should help me?
00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:16.799
Eventually, Congress created something more direct.
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:19.759
Enter the Pregnant Workers' Fairness Act.
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:26.319
The PWFA took effect in 2023 and the EEOC's regulations followed in 2024.
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:28.319
And here's where the conversation changed.
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:40.880
Generally, covered employees now have to provide reasonable accommodations for known limitations related to pregnancy, childbirth, or related medical conditions unless doing so creates an undue hardship.
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:43.519
And okay, here's one really important piece.
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:48.799
The employee does not necessarily have to meet the ADA definition of disability.
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:54.079
That's a huge ship because pregnancy itself isn't automatically a disability.
00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:56.799
And why should we even consider it as a disability?
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.559
But that doesn't mean the person doesn't need something temporarily.
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:10.720
I mean, morning sickness, difficulty standing, a lifting restriction, more water, a prenatal appointment, recovery after childbirth, shocker.
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:16.240
Those things can require adjustments, even when we're not talking about an ADA disability.
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:17.920
I mean, this really makes sense to me.
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:19.920
We're talking about growing a human being.
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:24.240
There's an entire skeleton being ensembled inside that woman's body.
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:26.480
They're creating organs and nervous system.
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:33.759
Potentially, somebody will grow up to become your CEO and send company-wide emails at 547 on a Friday afternoon.
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:38.799
That person building all of that occasionally probably needs to sit down.
00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:42.640
Honestly, I don't think this should be groundbreaking organizational science.
00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:45.519
A chair should not require a legal system.
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:52.000
The EEOC's regulations identify several common accommodations as quote-unquote predictable assessments.
00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:55.519
Okay, terrible phrase, maybe a useful idea.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:59.599
Basically, something should be ordinarily be pretty straightforward.
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:12.160
Keeping water nearby, taking additional bathroom breaks, sitting when your job normally requires standing, standing when you normally sit, taking even extra break to eat or drink, water, bathroom chair, food.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:13.200
I'll be honest.
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:18.319
I read all that and thought, what exactly did we think pregnancy involved?
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:22.400
Did we think that baby just downloads after week 40?
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:27.279
I mean, we all have seen pregnant women, their bodies have changed.
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.480
Of course, growing a human causes you to get tired.
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:32.880
Of course, pregnant women need to pee more.
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:36.079
There is literally a person sitting on their bladder.
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:38.079
This isn't a character flaw.
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:43.839
Then there's the documentation because HR has a love-hate relationship with paperwork.
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:51.359
And I can say that because I spent years in HR, we love a form, a doctor's note, a signature, a different form, updated note, new signature.
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:54.720
Oh, this doesn't exactly use the wording we need.
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:56.079
Can you go back?
00:26:56.400 --> 00:27:01.680
At some point, I have to expect somebody is going to ask whether the baby needs to sign the forms too.
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:10.400
So under the current PWFA framework, employers are automatically entitled to medical documentation for every single request.
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:13.519
Okay, sometimes documentation makes sense.
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:15.680
Sometimes it doesn't.
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:27.200
For very obvious or routine needs, like bathroom breaks or water, food, periodic sitting, turning the process into a paperwork or obstacle course may not be reasonable.
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:31.759
And that's what makes the allegations of the Amazon lawsuit completely interesting.
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:37.359
Let's say the plaintiffs say they're faced medical documentation requirements, even for simple needs.
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:41.359
The court will decide what happened and what it means legally.
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:55.119
But from an employee experience standpoint, imagining something basic, knowing you need it today, and realizing you now have to schedule another appointment, get another form, upload another document, and wait for it to be approved.
00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:58.079
The process itself becomes part of the burden.
00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:02.880
And this is another piece I honestly almost missed, and I don't know how I missed it.
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:07.599
Eventually saying yes doesn't always erase what happened while somebody was waiting.
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:10.720
Pregnancy is moving every day.
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:16.880
The baby isn't saying, no problem, mom, I'll stop developing until somebody gets back from PTO.
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:22.799
If somebody needs a lifting restructure today and it takes weeks to resolve, those weeks matter.
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:27.759
If attendance points accumulate while someone waits, those points matter.
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:34.799
If this person needs a stool now and gets one three weeks later, the eventual yes doesn't make those three weeks disappear.
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:37.519
So now take me back to the 99.9%.
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:40.240
Approval doesn't tell me when.
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:44.000
And sometimes when matters almost as much as a yes.
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:45.519
But there's also the other side.
00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:49.279
Paperwork can say yes while the culture says no.
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:53.200
There are also protections around retaliation and interference.
00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:57.599
This is where I think the law and the human experience really work to collide.
00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:06.160
Because technically, of course you could take a bathroom break, but emotionally receiving again, technically hearing your prenatal appointment is approved.
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:09.200
But yet your coworkers are saying we're really short of staff today.
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:17.039
But okay, technically being said, you're allowed to say it, but your manager says, everyone else seems capable of standing.
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:18.079
Why aren't you?
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:19.519
Do you see the difference?
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:21.440
Paperwork can say yes.
00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:26.559
The culture says, eh, we'd really prefer you not make us deal with this today.
00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:31.119
And when people hear that, you don't have to say the quiet part out loud.
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:35.599
The PWFA also addresses this idea of just sending somebody home.
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:38.319
Sometimes leave is exactly what a person needs.
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:39.519
Absolutely.
00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:44.720
But leave shouldn't automatically become, we don't know what to do with your body right now.
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:48.960
So how about you disappear until it becomes convenient to get?
00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:54.480
If another reasonable adjustment lets someone keep working, that should be part of the conversation.
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:57.599
Can the employee change duties temporarily?
00:29:57.839 --> 00:29:59.680
Is there adjustments to the hour?
00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:01.119
Could equipment help?
00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:05.119
Can we solve the actual problem instead of removing the person?
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:07.839
I see that as a much more useful question.
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:11.279
Okay, and let's be clear, the law is still evolving.
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:16.000
This legal framework is still relatively new and is still being worked out.
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:22.240
The PWFA only took effect in 2023, and the EEOC's regulations followed in 2024.
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:30.240
Different cases are already testing some pieces of it, and pregnancy-related workplace issues can overlap with several other laws too.
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:37.200
The Pregnancy Discrimination Act, the ADA, the FMLA, the Pump Act, potential state and local protections.
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:44.079
If somebody says, well, pregnancy is a disability, okay, that doesn't end the conversation anymore.
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:54.160
If your organization's pregnancy training was built in, let's say, 2017, and everybody's just clicked through the same PowerPoint ever since, you're only up there, but it might be time to update.
00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:59.920
Preferably with one without 47 slides of stock photo employees giving each other a thumbs up.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:06.559
And absolutely, if you're making an employee and actual employment decisions, please talk to your employment attorney.
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:12.000
Please do not show up in court and say, hey, Your Honor, Tiffany from Please Meet Your Trauma said, we're fine.
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:13.039
So we're good, right?
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:15.200
I don't want that responsibility.
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:18.319
And I'm fairly certain your lawyer doesn't either.
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:20.400
But here the law isn't really the point.
00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:24.799
After reading all these cases, I kept coming back to something so much simpler.
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:31.599
Why did we need a federal law this much to explain that sometimes a pregnant employee needs a chair?
00:31:31.839 --> 00:31:34.079
I understand why legal protections exist.
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:36.559
Clearly, we have to have them as a society.
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:38.720
But look what we're spelling out.
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:43.680
Let her drink water, let her use the bathroom, let her sit.
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:46.160
Don't necessarily drag out the process.
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:48.720
Don't punish her for actually using what was approved.
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:50.799
Give her somewhere appropriate to pump.
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:53.839
I mean, these aren't luxury perks.
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:57.920
We're accommodating the fact that employees have bodies.
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:00.319
And that's actually the bigger story.
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:07.839
Maybe we designed work around imaginary employee because so many workplaces seem to have been built around an imaginary person.
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:09.599
This employee is incredible.
00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:10.720
They never get sick.
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:13.359
This imaginary employee never seems to get pregnant.
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:15.440
They never develop a disability.
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:17.599
Their children never need anything.
00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:19.759
I want to know where that life is.
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.480
Their parents never age, nobody dies, they don't lactate, they don't get migraines.
00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:25.839
Oh, I want that life.
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:31.680
They don't have employments, they never grieve, their marriage never falls apart, they sleep perfectly every night.
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:33.440
What does that even look like?
00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:36.319
They're emotionally regulated, always available?
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:38.319
I don't know, completely predictable.
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:43.279
So basically, what we're saying, this imaginary person is a robot and not a person.
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:46.319
But that's somehow the employee our systems expect.
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:50.240
Then, shocker, a real human shows up for work.
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:57.279
She gets pregnant, somebody gets cancer, a child needs extra care, a parent gets sick, someone experiences trauma.
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:01.839
I mean, life happens and suddenly we treat the employee like a malfunction.
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:04.480
Maybe the employee didn't malfunction.
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:08.319
Maybe our model of an employee was fictional from the beginning.
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:13.599
Okay, I don't want this episode to become here's some lawsuits and a tour through pregnancy law.
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:14.799
Because that's not the story.
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:18.480
The story is what happens when leaning something starts to feel dangerous.
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:20.559
Because eventually people learn.
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:23.680
Maybe asking gets you an eye roll or a heavy sigh.
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:26.640
Maybe using the accommodation gets noticed.
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:29.519
Maybe you start worrying that you've become difficult.
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:43.039
So you shrink the request, you push through, you skip the appointment, you wait longer to go to the bathroom, you stop mentioning that something hurts, you try not to be noticed, and then leadership looks at the dashboard and says, see, hardly anyone complains.
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:46.799
Maybe, or maybe people learn not to.
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:50.400
That's the employer experience I don't think we measure very well.
00:33:50.640 --> 00:34:00.160
We measure requests and cases and approvals, absences, productivity, but how often do we just sit and measure, do you feel safe enough to need something here?
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:01.359
That's different.
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:05.279
Five systems can work perfectly and still fail one person.
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:07.680
And sometimes there isn't a villain in any of this.
00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:09.039
That part's important.
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:12.239
HR may generally approve the accommodation.
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:15.840
Operations might still also be trying to hit production numbers.
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:21.199
Scheduling is short staffed, the attendant software is doing exactly what it was programmed to do.
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:36.079
The manager is watching productivity, everybody has a rational explanation, the system can be functioning exactly as designed, and the employee can still be getting hurt because the employee doesn't experience HR operations, scheduling attendance, payroll.
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:39.679
Instead, they experience the company.
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:50.480
If one part of the organization says yes, and four other system great consequences that say yes, her experience is still no, somebody has to own the whole experience.
00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:51.920
Okay, shocker.
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:53.519
I'm gonna bring this back to dignity.
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:57.760
And that's why dignity isn't some soft workplace concept to me.
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.960
It's not cupcakes, it's not a play appreciation week.
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:03.440
Dignity is way more basic than that.
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:11.840
It's recognizing somebody's worth before calculating today's output, before attendance, before units per hour, before the dashboard.
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:17.679
Pregnancy makes the tension visible because the body refuses to quietly disappear into the workplace.
00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:18.880
It needs things.
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:24.719
It needs water and food and rest, a chair, a bathroom, medical care, a place to pump.
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:29.280
And eventually the organization has to answer a very basic question.
00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:33.199
Do we temporarily adapt work around the human?
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:37.760
Or do we keep demanding that the human contort herself around the work?
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:40.239
Employees notice that answer, they remember it.
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:45.039
So today, if you're listening as a leader, an HR manager, a professional, yes.
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:46.719
Audit your policies.
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:50.480
Make sure that they're legally current, but don't stop there.
00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:52.239
Audit the experience.
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:55.440
Follow one accommodation all the way through the organization.
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:58.079
Someone tells her supervisor she needs something.
00:35:58.320 --> 00:35:59.119
What happens?
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:01.840
Does a supervisor recognize it as a request?
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:04.079
How quickly does anyone respond?
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:09.360
Is the documentation actually necessary or are you just wanting to collect more paperwork and have a fire?
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:10.960
What happens while she's waiting?
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:12.079
Does scheduling know?
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:13.039
Does attendance know?
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:14.960
Does our manager understand what's been approved?
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:18.400
Can one system punish her for something another system authorized?
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:24.159
And if you've got a 99.9% approval rate, great, keep it seriously.
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:25.599
That's useful information.
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:27.280
Now just show me the rest of it.
00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:28.639
How long did it take?
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:30.000
What got implemented?
00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:32.400
How many people came back because it didn't work?
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:34.800
Did attendance gong to what this continue?
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:35.280
Who stayed?
00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:35.840
Who left?
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:37.840
And then talk to the humans.
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:39.440
Did you get what you needed?
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:40.960
Could you actually use it?
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:42.480
Was it safe to use it?
00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:45.039
Did your manager treat you differently afterward?
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:46.719
How do you feel to the organization?
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:48.639
You feel like a burden going back?
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:50.480
Would you feel safe asking again?
00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:52.159
Because that's data too.
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:54.800
Maybe it doesn't fit beautifully into Excel.
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:56.239
It's still data.
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:59.760
The question isn't simply, did HR close the ticket?
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:05.679
The question is, did the person get what she needed to continue doing her job safely and meaningfully?
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:07.039
That's harder to measure.
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:10.559
It's also a hell of a lot more useful than anything you're already measuring.
00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:18.159
And if you're listening because as an employee, some version of this is happening to you, all I can say is my favorite word, document.
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:22.079
That doesn't mean every frustrating workplace interaction is discrimination.
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:27.199
Sometimes organizations make mistakes, an email doesn't get sent or a system fails to update.
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:29.599
Managers often misunderstand things.
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:30.800
They have a lot going on.
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:34.079
Give people an opportunity to fix legitimate errors.
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:35.760
Bend on what you've asked for.
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:36.960
Document when.
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:39.519
Keep the communication, save the approval.
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:45.199
And if another system starts penalizing you, ask how these two fit together in writing.
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:48.159
You don't necessarily have to come in guns a blazing.
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:50.079
You're violating federal law.
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:59.199
Sometimes it's better to come in and ask for clarity, make it an understanding, make the organization work to connect its own system.
00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:01.199
If it's a mistake, great, fix it.
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:06.800
If nobody can explain why one part of the company contradicts the other, that's viable information too.
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:11.760
And if the situation becomes serious, get guidance specific to your circumstances.
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:19.039
Because as we have established, employment law has approximately 17 layers and at least three acronyms for every human experience.
00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.639
I think it's pretty easy to lead people who need nothing from you.
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:25.760
They're healthy, productive, available, predictable.
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:28.559
Their personal lives stay conveniently outside the building.
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.159
They hit every number, they never disrupt a schedule.
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:34.079
Of course they're easy to manage.
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:36.719
But that's not the real test of a leadership.
00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:40.239
The test comes when somebody when somebody becomes inconvenient.
00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:49.119
Pregnancy, illness, disability, convenience, caregiving, divorce, trauma, like something happens and they need the organization to bend a little.
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:50.480
Maybe not forever.
00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:52.320
Maybe not even very much.
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:58.719
Just enough that perfectly designed workflow high staic room for an imperfectly human person.
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:02.480
I think that's when we find out what an organization actually values.
00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:09.840
When everybody is performing beautifully, when somebody is slower, more complicated, temporary, unavailable, expensive, emotional, human.
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:13.679
That's when our people are our greatest asset actually gets tested.
00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:17.039
So that's what I'm going to keep watching on the Amazon case.
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:19.199
Of course, I care what happens legally.
00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:23.440
The plaintiffs have made some serious allegations and Amazon disputes them.
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:25.519
Both sides get their due process.
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:30.480
But the question I can't let go of is bigger than whether Amazon can back the 99%.
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:33.760
It's what I think we think that number approves.
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:36.960
Because maybe every number in the dashboard is technically correct.
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:38.960
Maybe the accommodation was approved.
00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:41.199
Maybe HR followed the process.
00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:45.199
Maybe the policy is written beautifully and every box got checked.
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:49.760
But yet maybe that employee still went home feeling like her body was a problem.
00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:52.079
The organization wished to disappear.
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:53.599
Both things can be true.
00:39:53.840 --> 00:40:07.679
And that gap, the distance between what organization believes it delivered and what the human being actually experienced, I mean, that's where leaders honestly need to pay attention because we spend a lot of money trying to convince employees that organization care.
00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:13.920
We do mobile programs and player branding, play appreciation, recognition, culture initiatives.
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:21.360
And then sometimes we fight somebody over a chair, a bathroom break, a bottle of water, place to pump.
00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:23.920
Maybe culture isn't as mysterious as we made it.
00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:26.559
Maybe people remember one very simple thing.
00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:30.079
When I needed something, what did this place do?
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:31.840
That's the part that stays.
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:40.800
And if your system makes someone continually prove that she deserves basic humanity before you make room for it, that's not just an accommodation problem.
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:42.320
That's a dignity problem.
00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:52.400
If conversations like this are your thing, the messy parts of work that don't fit neatly into an engagement survey or a leadership book, please make sure you're following peas maker trauma.
00:40:52.559 --> 00:41:04.639
Because every work we're gonna keep pulling apart these policies, the headlines, the leadership decisions, and all those little workplace moments that make you stop and think, wait, are we really doing this?
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:16.880
And if this episode made you think of somebody, an HR person, or someone who needs to hear it, the leader who would actually do something with it, or a friend who's been sitting at work wondering whether she's asking for too much.
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:19.840
Send this episode to them, send the podcast to them.
00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:26.559
Sometimes the best thing we can do is give somebody language for something they've been feeling, but haven't quite known how to explain.
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:29.840
In closing, I'm Tiffany Collins, and this is Please Meet Your Trauma.
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:35.119
Work becomes meaningful when dignity is protected, and that includes protecting your own.
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:37.920
Please follow the show so you don't miss the next conversation.
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:39.679
I'll see you guys next time
00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:04.320
Hi, it's time for another Tiffany Has a Question.
00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:16.480
So if a company tells you it approves more than 99.9%, I'll repeat that, 99.9% of pregnancy accommodation requests.
00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:19.760
Does that first make you think that they're doing an incredible job?
00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:24.079
Because apparently I've trained my brain not to work that way anymore.
00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:26.719
Because my first thought was, really?
00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:31.600
And my second thought was, is I want to see this spreadsheet.
00:00:33.119 --> 00:00:34.880
Welcome to Please Me Your Trauma.
00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:37.119
If you're back for another episode, welcome back.
00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:39.520
You know what to do, pull up a chair.
00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:42.079
And if this is your first episode, welcome.
00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:43.600
We're so glad you found us.
00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:45.359
We have a lot to talk about.
00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:49.280
Okay, a quick heads up before we get into this episode.
00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:51.840
We're gonna be talking about pregnancy at work today.
00:00:52.000 --> 00:01:00.240
And that includes pregnancy-related medical emergencies, a mention of miscarriage, and some really difficult postpartum experiences.
00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:07.120
I want to be clear that I understand if this is a tender subject for you right now, and I want to encourage you to go take care of yourself.
00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:10.480
Come back when you're ready for a future episode.
00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:19.840
Today we're talking about pregnancy, bathroom breaks, breast pumps, Amazon, federal employment law, and somehow statistics.
00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:23.599
Because I started reading a lawsuit against Amazon.
00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:30.319
And then, as we all know, what happens, I saw one number that made my researcher brand go, huh?
00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:33.200
And you know what happens when I go, huh?
00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:35.680
It's time to open another tab.
00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:38.560
And then another one, and another one.
00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:43.599
And suddenly it's three hours later, and I've got approximately 17 browser tabs open.
00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:47.040
I'm reading EEOC regulations for fun.
00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:48.719
Who does this?
00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:51.359
And I'm wondering how this has become my life.
00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:56.239
But the farther I went, the less this story felt like an Amazon story.
00:01:56.400 --> 00:02:08.159
And the more it started feeling like a much bigger conversation that I feel like we're not having about what happens when the policy says one thing and the employees experience something completely different.
00:02:08.479 --> 00:02:10.159
So let's talk about it.
00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:12.240
Okay, so it started with Amazon.
00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:25.599
Earlier this month, four Amazon warehouse employees filed a proposed nationwide class action lawsuit accusing Amazon of systematically failing to accommodate pregnant employees.
00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:31.120
Now, before we go anywhere with this, let's all be clear, these are allegations.
00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:34.479
This case is new, nothing has been proven.
00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:40.319
Amazon has the right to dispute the claims, and they absolutely get the right to do that.
00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:43.840
I'm not here to decide the lawsuit and who wins and who won't.
00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:48.000
What caught my attention were the things that these women say that they needed.
00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:53.039
And we're not talking about anything particularly exotic or hard to find.
00:02:53.280 --> 00:03:00.960
Chairs, additional bathroom and water breaks, time away for prenatal appointments, pregnancy-related medical needs.
00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:14.479
The lawsuit alleges that workers are asked for medical documentation for even very basic requests, and that pregnancy-related appointments and emergencies could eat into unpaid time-off balances.
00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:19.360
And we all know that once those balances run out, the warnings could start.
00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:29.919
One of the plaintiffs, Wilhelmina Barkley, says she was taken out of the Rochester warehouse in a wheelchair because of a pregnancy-related emergency and later hospitalized.
00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:34.719
The next day, according to the complaint, she received a termination warning.
00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:37.759
And five days later, she was fired.
00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:44.319
I actually had to sit with that for a hot minute because that's not an abstract HR process anymore.
00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:52.080
That's a woman leaving work in a wheelchair, going to the hospital, and then worrying about whether she still has a job.
00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:55.280
To me, that's Frame's employee experience.
00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:59.840
And Amazon responded to this claim with a statistic.
00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:08.240
The company claims it's proved more than 99.9% of pregnancy-related accommodation requests during the previous year.
00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:10.400
99.9.
00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:14.159
And maybe you hear that and think, wow, that's incredible.
00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:21.759
And yes, if that number means exactly what people naturally assume it means, that would be an incredible number.
00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:25.040
But for me, I looked at it and immediately thought, really?
00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:34.800
Because I'm also an annoyingly data-driven human, and you tell me 73%, I normally say, okay, 86.4%, fine.
00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:41.839
You tell me 99.9% while defending allegations describing a very different experience?
00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:44.399
Now, I want to see your homework.
00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:45.920
I need to be really clear here.
00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.480
I'm not saying Amazon invented that number.
00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:50.319
I have no evidence of that.
00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:54.480
It could be completely accurate based on how Amazon calculates it.
00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:56.720
My question is simpler.
00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:00.079
What exactly are we measuring with this number?
00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:02.160
Because I want the denominator.
00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:04.560
I want to know what counts as a request.
00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:07.759
I want to know what a quote unquote approved means.
00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:09.920
What does approved mean?
00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:13.279
Did the requester get exactly what she asked for?
00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:15.680
Does it mean an alternative was offered?
00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:18.560
Does it mean somebody eventually approved something?
00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:22.240
Or does it mean the accommodation was actually implemented?
00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:25.839
Because all of those things are not the same.
00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:29.920
Okay, and here's where I got a little more nerdy and found it more interesting.
00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:40.319
So under the Pregnant Workers' Fairness Act, an employee doesn't necessarily have to fill out some mythical magical HR form to ask for the accommodation.
00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.199
In fact, it doesn't have to be in writing.
00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:50.800
She doesn't have to walk in into HR and announce, I hereby invoke my rights, pursuant to the Pregnant Workner's Fairness Act.
00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:52.079
Thank gosh.
00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:54.879
Because no normal human being talks like that.
00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:56.160
Or so hey ho.
00:05:56.480 --> 00:06:06.319
And honestly, if your employees reach the point where she's speaking to you in statutory citations, I mean, there might already be a pretty deep problem.
00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:13.040
Instead, she may simply say to her supervisor, hey, I'm pregnant and I'm having a hard time standing for this long.
00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:15.040
I may need to sit sometimes.
00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:18.000
That can officially start the conversation.
00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:20.000
So now I have another question.
00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:29.519
If she says that to her supervisor, but never makes it into whatever formal system the company uses, is she considered in the 99.9%?
00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:31.120
I mean, I don't know.
00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:36.959
If she starts the process, but her paperwork doesn't get returned in time, where does that go?
00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:40.319
Is there denied or an incomplete, withdrawn?
00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:42.480
I want to know, does it disappear?
00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:44.959
I just don't know what we're doing with this.
00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:53.040
And if HR technically approves the accommodation, but the manager makes using it miserable, where does that number count?
00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:59.360
Because that gets us to where I think the real question here is does approve mean accommodated?
00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:03.279
And I have a hard time thinking that those are automatically the same thing.
00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:05.920
Okay, maybe the dashboard isn't lying.
00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:10.879
I went looking for enough public information to recreate that 99.9%.
00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:15.839
And it'll tell you in all the things I found, I just couldn't find it.
00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.959
Okay, again, that doesn't prove a number is wrong.
00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:22.720
It means I just don't know what that number tells me yet.
00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:27.920
And that's really important distinction because organizations often do this.
00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:31.600
They measure what's easy to count, accommodation approval rate.
00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:32.319
Fantastic.
00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:33.600
Put it on the dashboard.
00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:34.959
Green arrow, 99%.
00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:38.480
Woo-boo! Everybody in the office feels fantastic.
00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:40.480
I mean, maybe somebody gets a bonus.
00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:45.040
But am I the only one sitting here thinking, okay, now I need more?
00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:46.959
How long did the approval take?
00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:48.879
What actually got implemented?
00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:52.079
How many people gave up halfway through this process?
00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:55.360
How many quests never made it into a formal system?
00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:58.399
Did someone accumulate attendance points while waiting?
00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:04.959
Did the employee have to ask again because what was approved didn't actually solve the problem they were trying to solve?
00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:08.480
Okay, and here's the harder question that I kept running into.
00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:14.000
Did this employee feel safe using the accommodation once she got it?
00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:16.240
I mean, that's what I really want to know.
00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:19.279
So again, maybe the dashboard isn't lying.
00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:22.319
Maybe you're just asking the wrong question.
00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:28.480
And honestly, that became the thing I couldn't stop thinking about because you know me, I have to think about things.
00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:30.480
So at that point, I kept looking.
00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:34.960
And I thought, okay, is this just an Amazon issue?
00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:40.480
Or is Amazon just the company that happened to be in the news when I was looking?
00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:50.799
So I kept looking, and shocking, this little Amazon episode completely fell apart because I started finding variations of this everywhere.
00:08:51.039 --> 00:09:00.799
Earlier this year, the EEOC sued hotel equities over what it says happened to a pregnant front desk clerk at a Hilton-branded hotel in Illinois.
00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:09.039
So the Hilton Brand branded hotel in Illinois, this employee had a pregnancy-related medical need that made it difficult standing.
00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:12.159
So you might ask, what did she need?
00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:15.679
That's when I'm going to blow your mind and say, a chair.
00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:16.879
That's it.
00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:17.840
A chair.
00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:24.159
A coworker apparently found one for her that she could use and still do their job, problem solved.
00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:32.399
Except, according to the EOC, management later removed the chair and then replaced it with a small backless stool.
00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:36.799
And then went so far as discouraging her from even using that.
00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:41.919
The agency alleges that she was later fired in retaliation for requesting accommodation.
00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:46.240
Again, let's be honest, active litigations, allegations.
00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:51.039
There is a process for figuring out what exactly happened, and there's two sides to every story.
00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:54.960
But what I couldn't get past was the simplicity of what she requested.
00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:56.240
A chair.
00:09:56.559 --> 00:09:59.919
And can we acknowledge something really basic for like a hot minute?
00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:05.039
Do these people understand how much swelling can happen when you're growing an entire human?
00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:11.440
I mean, I remember thinking my ankles can basically resign from the original job description.
00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:14.639
My shoes became more of an aspirational concept.
00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:18.159
Wedding rings looks at your finger and says, You know what?
00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:20.399
I think I'm gonna head out for a while.
00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:26.240
Your center of gravity has moved, your body is doing basically all kinds of bizarre things.
00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:30.559
You cry at commercials, there's another person you're growing.
00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:33.840
To be sure, let's make the chair controversial.
00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:42.960
And this is where, again, my former HR brain and my regular human brain started arguing with each other because I understand operational needs, right?
00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:51.600
I understand staffing, I understand that accommodations are not always as simple as everybody on the internet thinks and wants them to be.
00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:56.480
There are real jobs, there are real safety issues, real production needs, real hardships.
00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:58.879
And to be clear, I know all that.
00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:02.799
But sometimes, sometimes it really isn't just a chair.
00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:18.799
And I think we get so comfortable talking about essential functions or operational requirements, business necessities, and undue hardship that we forget how ridiculous some of these conversations sound when you translate them back into normal human language.
00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:23.440
She's pregnant, her feet hurt, can she sit down, please?
00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:25.600
To me, that's the conversation.
00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:27.840
But what does this actually cost?
00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:32.559
Because apparently I enjoy destroying a perfectly good afternoon with more research.
00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:35.519
So I started looking at accommodation costs too.
00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:38.799
Now, this isn't specific to pregnancy.
00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:50.159
So before anyone sends me an email, I know different data set, but Jan or the Job Accommodation Network surveys employers about accommodations they've actually implemented.
00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:56.399
And among employers who reported cost information, 61% said the accommodation costs them.
00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:57.519
Ready for it?
00:11:57.759 --> 00:11:58.480
Nothing.
00:11:58.720 --> 00:11:59.360
Zero.
00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:04.639
Another 33% reported one-time expense with a median around$300.
00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:11.360
Again, I'm not pretending that represents every workplace or every request or every need because it doesn't.
00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:14.639
But it reinforces something pretty simple in my mind.
00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:19.840
A lot of accommodations are not multi-billion dollar organizational interventions.
00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:25.840
Sometimes they're incredibly ordinary changes, which brings me right back to the chair.
00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:28.159
Federal litigation over a chair.
00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:40.320
And at some point, I need us to ask whether we've gotten so used to treating human needs as operational problems that we've forgotten how to just, I don't know, be human and normal with others.
00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:42.480
People are going to keep getting pregnant.
00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:48.639
And maybe this is stating the obvious, but apparently we're going to state it anyway, because that's what I do.
00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:54.080
Pregnancy is not some weird workplace trend Gen Z invented on TikTok.
00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:57.120
It's been happening for a long time now.
00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:02.799
And as it turns out, you know, it's fairly important to the continuation of civilization.
00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:09.120
I haven't seen Let the Human Species Quietly Disappear as anyone's strategic plan lately.
00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:20.879
So unless we build some utopian society where a woman's only job for nine months is to recline comfortably, grow a human, get her feet rubbed, and occasionally be asked, excuse me, madame, how would you like me to feel for your pillow?
00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:23.200
Pregnant women are gonna have to work.
00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:37.440
They're gonna have to teach, lead teams, run meetings, operate equipment, work front desks, stand on production floors, take calls, pay mortgages, take care of the children they might already have, and at the same time, grow another human.
00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:43.519
I mean, I've done it three times, but just saying all that sounds pretty oppressive when you say it out loud.
00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:47.200
So maybe workplaces should stop acting surprised.
00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:50.080
Pregnancy sometimes requires an adjustment.
00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:56.879
Literally, every executive in your organization got here through some version of this pregnancy process.
00:13:57.039 --> 00:13:59.200
I mean, we have planned for it.
00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:02.960
So in my research, US Steel raises a different question.
00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:13.039
So at the end of 2025, the EEOC sued the company over the treatment of an experienced mining equipment operator who had a high-risk pregnancy.
00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:16.799
According to the agency, she wasn't saying, I can't work.
00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:20.879
She needed to stay off the equipment that caused the more physical jarring.
00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:25.200
The lawsuit says that she was initially placed in an involuntary leave.
00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:37.519
And when she returned, the EEOC alleges that she was first assigned work that didn't fit her restrictions and was later moved out of her usual role into a lower earning office assignment.
00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:38.799
That's crazy.
00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:42.000
And that made me stop for a completely different reason.
00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:44.480
Because technically she still had a job, right?
00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:45.600
So, like, check.
00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.399
But that doesn't mean nothing was lost.
00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:49.360
Let's think about it.
00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:52.080
She lost her income and her responsibility, her status.
00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:58.799
Maybe the feeling of being good at something, or feeling like she knew how to do the work.
00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:04.159
I think sometimes organizations look at that and say, eh, she's still employed.
00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:08.080
Okay, but how did she experience it?
00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:10.159
I mean, those are two different questions.
00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:13.519
The newer law actually recognizes some of this.
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:24.000
So again, under the PWFA, temporarily being unable to perform one essential function doesn't automatically mean someone is no longer qualified.
00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:25.120
Okay, right?
00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:26.000
That makes sense.
00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:31.519
There are circumstances where temporarily suspending that function may be reasonable.
00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:35.519
But that doesn't mean employers have to throw job requirements out the window.
00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:38.480
I mean, undue hardship still matters.
00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:40.159
Safety matters.
00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:44.159
The actual job matters, but the starting question becomes different.
00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:48.000
You can't do this one thing right now, so I guess you're done.
00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:51.440
Is there a reasonable way to keep this person contributing?
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:54.080
I think in my mind that's a much better question.
00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:56.799
So then there's Polaris Industries.
00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:05.840
And according to the EEOC lawsuit, a pregnant employee was receiving attendance points for pregnancy-related absences related to medical appointments.
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.919
Her physician restricted her to no more than 40 hours a week.
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:11.120
Okay, reasonable.
00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:19.840
Meanwhile, the company allegedly continued requiring mandatory overtime, and she was warned that another attendance point could result in termination.
00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:21.600
Eventually, she resigned.
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:23.519
The case was later settled.
00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:26.639
And here's what I think we all should picture.
00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:29.039
Doctor says 40 hours.
00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:29.679
Great.
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:32.720
Operation says mandatory overtime.
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:35.200
The attendance system says, points.
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.080
And this pregnant employee is staying right in the middle.
00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:40.320
Which rule is she supposed to break?
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:44.159
Nobody has to call her the office and say, we don't care about you.
00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:47.679
I mean, all those systems can communicate that all by themselves.
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:52.159
And honestly, that's a lot what the Amazon plaintiffs are describing too.
00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:55.120
One system says we accommodate pregnancy.
00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:58.879
Another says, you only have this much time available.
00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.679
Another says, you're away from your workstation.
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:04.400
Another says you're getting an attendance warning.
00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:09.279
And the employee is standing in the middle trying to figure out how she somehow become the problem.
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:17.680
And I don't want to rush past this because I could sit here all day and talk about reasonable accommodation, interactive process, undue hardship, attendance systems.
00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:25.200
I mean, those are all HR words and HR systems, and I can explain them to you at nauseam, which you probably don't want me to do.
00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:30.079
But yet the employee isn't experiencing the quote unquote interactive process.
00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:32.480
She's still experiencing Tuesday.
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:36.960
I mean, she woke up nauseous, she barely slept, her back hurts, her feet are swollen.
00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:40.799
She has an appointment she's too nervous to mention to her supervisor.
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:43.599
Maybe something doesn't feel right and she's already scared.
00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:45.519
But she needs her paycheck.
00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:46.960
She needs the insurance.
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:50.880
There's probably a pile of laundry sitting at home silently judging her.
00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:58.319
And then on top of everything else her body is doing, she picks up another job managing the organization.
00:17:58.559 --> 00:17:59.519
Who do I tell?
00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:01.519
Did HR get my paperwork?
00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:03.279
Does my supervisor know?
00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:05.200
Why did I get an attendance point?
00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:07.200
Am I allowed to leave for my appointment?
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:09.119
Am I asking too much?
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.559
Do my fellow coworkers think I'm getting special treatment?
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:14.160
Have I become annoying?
00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:16.319
Is this going to affect how they see me?
00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:18.319
Am I still going to get promoted?
00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.839
Am I still going to have this job after the baby comes?
00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:25.759
None of that information appears on approval percentage.
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:28.160
Then there's the part that's even harder to measure.
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:29.359
The social cost.
00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:30.720
The sigh.
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:31.839
The eye roll.
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:33.440
The again.
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:42.160
The manager who technically says yes, while also at the same time making it painfully obvious how convenient your yes is.
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:45.680
The coworker making a comment about having to cover for you.
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:52.559
The moment you start wondering whether you've gone from a high performer to being labeled as a problem employee.
00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.759
At that point, she's not just asking for a chair.
00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:00.240
She's asking, do I still belong here now that I need something from you?
00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:02.720
And again, very different question.
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:06.319
Then the baby is born and the body doesn't get the memo.
00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:10.319
Another case I looked at involved the security assurance management.
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:14.480
The employee was a special police officer, and this is what kills me.
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:24.960
According to the EOC, she was removed from assignment during pregnancy because a client didn't want her at that site while she was pregnant.
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:26.640
The audacity.
00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:28.400
Then she had the baby.
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:31.200
She went back to work and she needed a pump.
00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:35.839
And apparently, this comes at a surprise in some workplaces.
00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:42.240
Let me let you know, the human body does not immediately return to factory settings as soon as you popped out a baby.
00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:52.319
I promise you there's no restart button, there's no software update, no little message saying, congratulations on baby, please install version 2.0 and report Monday at eight.
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:55.200
If you don't know, her body's still doing things.
00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:57.039
A lot of things.
00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:03.359
According to the EOC, this employee didn't receive adequate pumping breaks or an adequate place to pump.
00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:05.599
She leaked breast milk through her uniform.
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:08.880
And I can attest, this is a very embarrassing experience.
00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:10.480
She pumped in her car.
00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:12.880
And this is where the jokes stopped for me.
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:19.359
Because imagine that you just had a baby, you're back at work, maybe leaving that baby was hard enough.
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:28.079
Your body is still recovering, and now it's Tuesday afternoon and you're sitting in your car with a breast pump because your employer couldn't figure out a workable space.
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:33.039
Then, according to the lawsuit, the situation contributed to missed work.
00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:33.759
Shocker.
00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:35.279
The employee complained.
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:39.920
She was disciplined for absences, and eventually she stopped receiving shifts.
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:45.039
And here I am, I just keep thinking, at what point did she become the performance problem?
00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:49.440
How did an organizational failure become her attendance issue?
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:58.160
Because an accompanying may experience all of those things as separate categories: pumping problem, attendance problem, scheduling problem, performance problem.
00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:01.599
But to her, it's just my employer.
00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:04.880
It's one experience, it's one relationship.
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:06.880
The law is pretty clear about pumping.
00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:10.960
Congress passed the Pump for Nursing Mothers Act at the end of 2022.
00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:17.920
In it, generally covered employees have rights to reasonable pumping breaks for up to a year after birth.
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:25.039
And the employer's obligation is to provide an appropriate private space, not a bathroom.
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:27.599
Not, but it's a very nice bathroom.
00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:32.640
Not you put a chair in there, not but it's the executive bathroom.
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:34.480
Not even if you added a candle.
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.440
They clearly state not a bathroom.
00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:41.119
And I think it's funny that Congress actually had to put this in writing.
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:43.599
And here's where this loops back into the bigger issue.
00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:51.279
If the policy says, of course you can pump, but your productivity system punishes every minute your way, can you actually pump?
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:53.680
That's the distinction I keep coming back to.
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:55.359
The policy says yes.
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.759
The surrounding system whispers, yes, but you probably shouldn't.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.519
And this is still happening.
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:08.319
Then last month the EOC sued North American Lighting over pregnancy-related accommodations at its Illinois facilities.
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:15.759
The allegations included employees with lifting restrictions being sent home or placed on leave rather than being accommodated.
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:17.039
Are you kidding me?
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:23.759
One employee allegedly run in a doctor's note and was sent home and fired the next day.
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:32.079
The lawsuit also includes allegations involving inadequate pumpkin spaces against allegations, still being litigated.
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:34.240
But now, look what we've got.
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:43.039
Amazon, hospitality, steel, manufacturing, security, different workplaces, different jobs, same basic tension.
00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:49.039
What happens when an employee's body no longer fits neatly into the system that we designed and created?
00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:54.079
And that's when I started asking, okay, what does the law actually require now?
00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:56.079
Because the law changed.
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:57.599
Here's a short version.
00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:05.359
For decades, one of the major federal pregnancy protections was the Pregnancy Discrimination Act of 1978.
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:09.839
In plain language, it says you don't get to discriminate against someone because she's pregnant.
00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:21.680
Important, absolutely necessary, but there's a gap between don't discriminate her and you need to actually work with her when pregnancy creates a temporary workplace limitation.
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:25.680
And that gap visually becomes young versus UPS.
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:26.480
Here's the story.
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:29.039
So Peggy Young was a UPS driver.
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:30.319
She became pregnant.
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.759
Her doctor, rightfully so, gave her a lifting restriction.
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:36.079
I mean, that's not crazy.
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:46.559
UPS accommodated some other workers with temporary lifting restrictions, but Young argued similar flexibility wasn't available to her.
00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:53.440
So basically, what I'm hearing is like somebody had a back issue and they had a doctor's note that said they needed to do lifting restrictions.
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:58.960
But she's growing a human baby with a doctor's note and they're not going to I don't even know.
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:01.039
So Young ended up on an unpaid leak.
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:03.519
Her case eventually reached the Supreme Court.
00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:14.000
And a question I'm concerned about is why shouldn't a pregnant employee have to find another category of worker and say, you helped him, therefore you should help me?
00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:16.799
Eventually, Congress created something more direct.
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:19.759
Enter the Pregnant Workers' Fairness Act.
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:26.319
The PWFA took effect in 2023 and the EEOC's regulations followed in 2024.
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:28.319
And here's where the conversation changed.
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:40.880
Generally, covered employees now have to provide reasonable accommodations for known limitations related to pregnancy, childbirth, or related medical conditions unless doing so creates an undue hardship.
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:43.519
And okay, here's one really important piece.
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:48.799
The employee does not necessarily have to meet the ADA definition of disability.
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:54.079
That's a huge ship because pregnancy itself isn't automatically a disability.
00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:56.799
And why should we even consider it as a disability?
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.559
But that doesn't mean the person doesn't need something temporarily.
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:10.720
I mean, morning sickness, difficulty standing, a lifting restriction, more water, a prenatal appointment, recovery after childbirth, shocker.
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:16.240
Those things can require adjustments, even when we're not talking about an ADA disability.
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:17.920
I mean, this really makes sense to me.
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:19.920
We're talking about growing a human being.
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:24.240
There's an entire skeleton being ensembled inside that woman's body.
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:26.480
They're creating organs and nervous system.
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:33.759
Potentially, somebody will grow up to become your CEO and send company-wide emails at 547 on a Friday afternoon.
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:38.799
That person building all of that occasionally probably needs to sit down.
00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:42.640
Honestly, I don't think this should be groundbreaking organizational science.
00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:45.519
A chair should not require a legal system.
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:52.000
The EEOC's regulations identify several common accommodations as quote-unquote predictable assessments.
00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:55.519
Okay, terrible phrase, maybe a useful idea.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:59.599
Basically, something should be ordinarily be pretty straightforward.
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:12.160
Keeping water nearby, taking additional bathroom breaks, sitting when your job normally requires standing, standing when you normally sit, taking even extra break to eat or drink, water, bathroom chair, food.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:13.200
I'll be honest.
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:18.319
I read all that and thought, what exactly did we think pregnancy involved?
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:22.400
Did we think that baby just downloads after week 40?
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:27.279
I mean, we all have seen pregnant women, their bodies have changed.
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.480
Of course, growing a human causes you to get tired.
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:32.880
Of course, pregnant women need to pee more.
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:36.079
There is literally a person sitting on their bladder.
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:38.079
This isn't a character flaw.
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:43.839
Then there's the documentation because HR has a love-hate relationship with paperwork.
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:51.359
And I can say that because I spent years in HR, we love a form, a doctor's note, a signature, a different form, updated note, new signature.
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:54.720
Oh, this doesn't exactly use the wording we need.
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:56.079
Can you go back?
00:26:56.400 --> 00:27:01.680
At some point, I have to expect somebody is going to ask whether the baby needs to sign the forms too.
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:10.400
So under the current PWFA framework, employers are automatically entitled to medical documentation for every single request.
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:13.519
Okay, sometimes documentation makes sense.
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:15.680
Sometimes it doesn't.
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:27.200
For very obvious or routine needs, like bathroom breaks or water, food, periodic sitting, turning the process into a paperwork or obstacle course may not be reasonable.
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:31.759
And that's what makes the allegations of the Amazon lawsuit completely interesting.
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:37.359
Let's say the plaintiffs say they're faced medical documentation requirements, even for simple needs.
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:41.359
The court will decide what happened and what it means legally.
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:55.119
But from an employee experience standpoint, imagining something basic, knowing you need it today, and realizing you now have to schedule another appointment, get another form, upload another document, and wait for it to be approved.
00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:58.079
The process itself becomes part of the burden.
00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:02.880
And this is another piece I honestly almost missed, and I don't know how I missed it.
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:07.599
Eventually saying yes doesn't always erase what happened while somebody was waiting.
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:10.720
Pregnancy is moving every day.
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:16.880
The baby isn't saying, no problem, mom, I'll stop developing until somebody gets back from PTO.
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:22.799
If somebody needs a lifting restructure today and it takes weeks to resolve, those weeks matter.
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:27.759
If attendance points accumulate while someone waits, those points matter.
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:34.799
If this person needs a stool now and gets one three weeks later, the eventual yes doesn't make those three weeks disappear.
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:37.519
So now take me back to the 99.9%.
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:40.240
Approval doesn't tell me when.
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:44.000
And sometimes when matters almost as much as a yes.
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:45.519
But there's also the other side.
00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:49.279
Paperwork can say yes while the culture says no.
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:53.200
There are also protections around retaliation and interference.
00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:57.599
This is where I think the law and the human experience really work to collide.
00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:06.160
Because technically, of course you could take a bathroom break, but emotionally receiving again, technically hearing your prenatal appointment is approved.
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:09.200
But yet your coworkers are saying we're really short of staff today.
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:17.039
But okay, technically being said, you're allowed to say it, but your manager says, everyone else seems capable of standing.
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:18.079
Why aren't you?
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:19.519
Do you see the difference?
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:21.440
Paperwork can say yes.
00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:26.559
The culture says, eh, we'd really prefer you not make us deal with this today.
00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:31.119
And when people hear that, you don't have to say the quiet part out loud.
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:35.599
The PWFA also addresses this idea of just sending somebody home.
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:38.319
Sometimes leave is exactly what a person needs.
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:39.519
Absolutely.
00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:44.720
But leave shouldn't automatically become, we don't know what to do with your body right now.
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:48.960
So how about you disappear until it becomes convenient to get?
00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:54.480
If another reasonable adjustment lets someone keep working, that should be part of the conversation.
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:57.599
Can the employee change duties temporarily?
00:29:57.839 --> 00:29:59.680
Is there adjustments to the hour?
00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:01.119
Could equipment help?
00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:05.119
Can we solve the actual problem instead of removing the person?
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:07.839
I see that as a much more useful question.
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:11.279
Okay, and let's be clear, the law is still evolving.
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:16.000
This legal framework is still relatively new and is still being worked out.
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:22.240
The PWFA only took effect in 2023, and the EEOC's regulations followed in 2024.
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:30.240
Different cases are already testing some pieces of it, and pregnancy-related workplace issues can overlap with several other laws too.
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:37.200
The Pregnancy Discrimination Act, the ADA, the FMLA, the Pump Act, potential state and local protections.
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:44.079
If somebody says, well, pregnancy is a disability, okay, that doesn't end the conversation anymore.
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:54.160
If your organization's pregnancy training was built in, let's say, 2017, and everybody's just clicked through the same PowerPoint ever since, you're only up there, but it might be time to update.
00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:59.920
Preferably with one without 47 slides of stock photo employees giving each other a thumbs up.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:06.559
And absolutely, if you're making an employee and actual employment decisions, please talk to your employment attorney.
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:12.000
Please do not show up in court and say, hey, Your Honor, Tiffany from Please Meet Your Trauma said, we're fine.
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:13.039
So we're good, right?
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:15.200
I don't want that responsibility.
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:18.319
And I'm fairly certain your lawyer doesn't either.
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:20.400
But here the law isn't really the point.
00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:24.799
After reading all these cases, I kept coming back to something so much simpler.
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:31.599
Why did we need a federal law this much to explain that sometimes a pregnant employee needs a chair?
00:31:31.839 --> 00:31:34.079
I understand why legal protections exist.
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:36.559
Clearly, we have to have them as a society.
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:38.720
But look what we're spelling out.
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:43.680
Let her drink water, let her use the bathroom, let her sit.
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:46.160
Don't necessarily drag out the process.
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:48.720
Don't punish her for actually using what was approved.
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:50.799
Give her somewhere appropriate to pump.
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:53.839
I mean, these aren't luxury perks.
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:57.920
We're accommodating the fact that employees have bodies.
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:00.319
And that's actually the bigger story.
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:07.839
Maybe we designed work around imaginary employee because so many workplaces seem to have been built around an imaginary person.
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:09.599
This employee is incredible.
00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:10.720
They never get sick.
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:13.359
This imaginary employee never seems to get pregnant.
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:15.440
They never develop a disability.
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:17.599
Their children never need anything.
00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:19.759
I want to know where that life is.
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.480
Their parents never age, nobody dies, they don't lactate, they don't get migraines.
00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:25.839
Oh, I want that life.
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:31.680
They don't have employments, they never grieve, their marriage never falls apart, they sleep perfectly every night.
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:33.440
What does that even look like?
00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:36.319
They're emotionally regulated, always available?
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:38.319
I don't know, completely predictable.
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:43.279
So basically, what we're saying, this imaginary person is a robot and not a person.
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:46.319
But that's somehow the employee our systems expect.
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:50.240
Then, shocker, a real human shows up for work.
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:57.279
She gets pregnant, somebody gets cancer, a child needs extra care, a parent gets sick, someone experiences trauma.
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:01.839
I mean, life happens and suddenly we treat the employee like a malfunction.
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:04.480
Maybe the employee didn't malfunction.
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:08.319
Maybe our model of an employee was fictional from the beginning.
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:13.599
Okay, I don't want this episode to become here's some lawsuits and a tour through pregnancy law.
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:14.799
Because that's not the story.
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:18.480
The story is what happens when leaning something starts to feel dangerous.
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:20.559
Because eventually people learn.
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:23.680
Maybe asking gets you an eye roll or a heavy sigh.
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:26.640
Maybe using the accommodation gets noticed.
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:29.519
Maybe you start worrying that you've become difficult.
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:43.039
So you shrink the request, you push through, you skip the appointment, you wait longer to go to the bathroom, you stop mentioning that something hurts, you try not to be noticed, and then leadership looks at the dashboard and says, see, hardly anyone complains.
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:46.799
Maybe, or maybe people learn not to.
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:50.400
That's the employer experience I don't think we measure very well.
00:33:50.640 --> 00:34:00.160
We measure requests and cases and approvals, absences, productivity, but how often do we just sit and measure, do you feel safe enough to need something here?
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:01.359
That's different.
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:05.279
Five systems can work perfectly and still fail one person.
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:07.680
And sometimes there isn't a villain in any of this.
00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:09.039
That part's important.
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:12.239
HR may generally approve the accommodation.
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:15.840
Operations might still also be trying to hit production numbers.
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:21.199
Scheduling is short staffed, the attendant software is doing exactly what it was programmed to do.
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:36.079
The manager is watching productivity, everybody has a rational explanation, the system can be functioning exactly as designed, and the employee can still be getting hurt because the employee doesn't experience HR operations, scheduling attendance, payroll.
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:39.679
Instead, they experience the company.
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:50.480
If one part of the organization says yes, and four other system great consequences that say yes, her experience is still no, somebody has to own the whole experience.
00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:51.920
Okay, shocker.
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:53.519
I'm gonna bring this back to dignity.
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:57.760
And that's why dignity isn't some soft workplace concept to me.
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.960
It's not cupcakes, it's not a play appreciation week.
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:03.440
Dignity is way more basic than that.
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:11.840
It's recognizing somebody's worth before calculating today's output, before attendance, before units per hour, before the dashboard.
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:17.679
Pregnancy makes the tension visible because the body refuses to quietly disappear into the workplace.
00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:18.880
It needs things.
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:24.719
It needs water and food and rest, a chair, a bathroom, medical care, a place to pump.
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:29.280
And eventually the organization has to answer a very basic question.
00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:33.199
Do we temporarily adapt work around the human?
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:37.760
Or do we keep demanding that the human contort herself around the work?
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:40.239
Employees notice that answer, they remember it.
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:45.039
So today, if you're listening as a leader, an HR manager, a professional, yes.
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:46.719
Audit your policies.
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:50.480
Make sure that they're legally current, but don't stop there.
00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:52.239
Audit the experience.
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:55.440
Follow one accommodation all the way through the organization.
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:58.079
Someone tells her supervisor she needs something.
00:35:58.320 --> 00:35:59.119
What happens?
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:01.840
Does a supervisor recognize it as a request?
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:04.079
How quickly does anyone respond?
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:09.360
Is the documentation actually necessary or are you just wanting to collect more paperwork and have a fire?
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:10.960
What happens while she's waiting?
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:12.079
Does scheduling know?
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:13.039
Does attendance know?
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:14.960
Does our manager understand what's been approved?
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:18.400
Can one system punish her for something another system authorized?
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:24.159
And if you've got a 99.9% approval rate, great, keep it seriously.
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:25.599
That's useful information.
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:27.280
Now just show me the rest of it.
00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:28.639
How long did it take?
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:30.000
What got implemented?
00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:32.400
How many people came back because it didn't work?
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:34.800
Did attendance gong to what this continue?
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:35.280
Who stayed?
00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:35.840
Who left?
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:37.840
And then talk to the humans.
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:39.440
Did you get what you needed?
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:40.960
Could you actually use it?
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:42.480
Was it safe to use it?
00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:45.039
Did your manager treat you differently afterward?
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:46.719
How do you feel to the organization?
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:48.639
You feel like a burden going back?
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:50.480
Would you feel safe asking again?
00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:52.159
Because that's data too.
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:54.800
Maybe it doesn't fit beautifully into Excel.
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:56.239
It's still data.
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:59.760
The question isn't simply, did HR close the ticket?
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:05.679
The question is, did the person get what she needed to continue doing her job safely and meaningfully?
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:07.039
That's harder to measure.
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:10.559
It's also a hell of a lot more useful than anything you're already measuring.
00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:18.159
And if you're listening because as an employee, some version of this is happening to you, all I can say is my favorite word, document.
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:22.079
That doesn't mean every frustrating workplace interaction is discrimination.
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:27.199
Sometimes organizations make mistakes, an email doesn't get sent or a system fails to update.
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:29.599
Managers often misunderstand things.
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:30.800
They have a lot going on.
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:34.079
Give people an opportunity to fix legitimate errors.
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:35.760
Bend on what you've asked for.
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:36.960
Document when.
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:39.519
Keep the communication, save the approval.
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:45.199
And if another system starts penalizing you, ask how these two fit together in writing.
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:48.159
You don't necessarily have to come in guns a blazing.
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:50.079
You're violating federal law.
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:59.199
Sometimes it's better to come in and ask for clarity, make it an understanding, make the organization work to connect its own system.
00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:01.199
If it's a mistake, great, fix it.
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:06.800
If nobody can explain why one part of the company contradicts the other, that's viable information too.
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:11.760
And if the situation becomes serious, get guidance specific to your circumstances.
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:19.039
Because as we have established, employment law has approximately 17 layers and at least three acronyms for every human experience.
00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.639
I think it's pretty easy to lead people who need nothing from you.
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:25.760
They're healthy, productive, available, predictable.
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:28.559
Their personal lives stay conveniently outside the building.
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.159
They hit every number, they never disrupt a schedule.
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:34.079
Of course they're easy to manage.
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:36.719
But that's not the real test of a leadership.
00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:40.239
The test comes when somebody when somebody becomes inconvenient.
00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:49.119
Pregnancy, illness, disability, convenience, caregiving, divorce, trauma, like something happens and they need the organization to bend a little.
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:50.480
Maybe not forever.
00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:52.320
Maybe not even very much.
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:58.719
Just enough that perfectly designed workflow high staic room for an imperfectly human person.
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:02.480
I think that's when we find out what an organization actually values.
00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:09.840
When everybody is performing beautifully, when somebody is slower, more complicated, temporary, unavailable, expensive, emotional, human.
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:13.679
That's when our people are our greatest asset actually gets tested.
00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:17.039
So that's what I'm going to keep watching on the Amazon case.
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:19.199
Of course, I care what happens legally.
00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:23.440
The plaintiffs have made some serious allegations and Amazon disputes them.
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:25.519
Both sides get their due process.
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:30.480
But the question I can't let go of is bigger than whether Amazon can back the 99%.
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:33.760
It's what I think we think that number approves.
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:36.960
Because maybe every number in the dashboard is technically correct.
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:38.960
Maybe the accommodation was approved.
00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:41.199
Maybe HR followed the process.
00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:45.199
Maybe the policy is written beautifully and every box got checked.
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:49.760
But yet maybe that employee still went home feeling like her body was a problem.
00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:52.079
The organization wished to disappear.
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:53.599
Both things can be true.
00:39:53.840 --> 00:40:07.679
And that gap, the distance between what organization believes it delivered and what the human being actually experienced, I mean, that's where leaders honestly need to pay attention because we spend a lot of money trying to convince employees that organization care.
00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:13.920
We do mobile programs and player branding, play appreciation, recognition, culture initiatives.
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:21.360
And then sometimes we fight somebody over a chair, a bathroom break, a bottle of water, place to pump.
00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:23.920
Maybe culture isn't as mysterious as we made it.
00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:26.559
Maybe people remember one very simple thing.
00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:30.079
When I needed something, what did this place do?
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:31.840
That's the part that stays.
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:40.800
And if your system makes someone continually prove that she deserves basic humanity before you make room for it, that's not just an accommodation problem.
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:42.320
That's a dignity problem.
00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:52.400
If conversations like this are your thing, the messy parts of work that don't fit neatly into an engagement survey or a leadership book, please make sure you're following peas maker trauma.
00:40:52.559 --> 00:41:04.639
Because every work we're gonna keep pulling apart these policies, the headlines, the leadership decisions, and all those little workplace moments that make you stop and think, wait, are we really doing this?
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:16.880
And if this episode made you think of somebody, an HR person, or someone who needs to hear it, the leader who would actually do something with it, or a friend who's been sitting at work wondering whether she's asking for too much.
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:19.840
Send this episode to them, send the podcast to them.
00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:26.559
Sometimes the best thing we can do is give somebody language for something they've been feeling, but haven't quite known how to explain.
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:29.840
In closing, I'm Tiffany Collins, and this is Please Meet Your Trauma.
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:35.119
Work becomes meaningful when dignity is protected, and that includes protecting your own.
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:37.920
Please follow the show so you don't miss the next conversation.
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:39.679
I'll see you guys next time
