speaker-0: This is crazy hard. I mean look at this. I mean wow. You had to do a lot and you did. I
speaker-1: I use micropoly for all these smaller pieces. Allows me to change the base geometry without dynamics.
speaker-0: Anything special with the UVs or using UDIMs or anything or no? Dang. Now we see how you get some patterns on the neck. So I mean it looks more like a CG kind of like toy. Look at the difference and ⁓ so much more cinematic and like color and value of the lights. It's really cool to see.
speaker-1: This was the first shoot. you
speaker-0: Welcome to Pixel Peeps, the show where we take a deeper dive and closer look at some of today's best digital artwork along with the artists that create them. Today I'm speaking with Anna Smirnova, and we're gonna take a deeper dive in her project called Samurai. Anna is a talented character artist who's been working for several years in the industry. She's currently a senior 3D character artist at Sportspired Games. Anna was also one of my students in my online course at characterclass.com. So, this is the first time that I'm having a guest on that was also a student, and we're gonna be actually taking a deeper look at the project that she did during the course. I thought then, and I think now it's an incredible project. So please enjoy and let's learn some stuff from Anna Smirnova. Today we're talking about Samurai. So, like I was just telling you, I think, you know, it's an epic project. I told you when you completed it too, you know, I saw it. Inside the class, but excited to to get into the details here and share some of the process. Really like this one too with the cinematics and stuff. So, anyways, just super clean, holds up to extreme scrutiny. I think it's an awesome project that's rendered in Unreal Engine. So, yeah, in general, just an inspiring one. So excited to get into the details. Yeah. So, anyways, congrats. Some of the basic questions I like to get out of the way. So, maybe it's first is like why did you decide to choose this one? This project. What made you choose to do this one?
speaker-1: So I made this project on your class, like you said, and when I'm the concept, I follow your recommendation from the lessons. It's funny because one of the first QA sessions you said to choose another one. ⁓ really? Yeah. Because concept is kind of... a lot of blind spots and the design is not completed. ⁓ I chose this ⁓ girl in armor because I love the concept, it's really great and I love the details of... we're here. Yeah, yeah.
speaker-0: Is the concept here? That's right. Okay, okay. As soon as I see this, now I remember why I told you. I mean, this is crazy hard. I mean, look at this. I mean, wow. You ha you had to do a lot, so and you did. You know, good job. But yeah, you had to fill in a lot of blanks there.
speaker-1: Yeah, and I love the colors of the concept and idea. ⁓ Girl with a mask, kind of mystery girl. I wanted to create something with small repetitive parts and a lot of details. So this concept kind of works. I wanted to learn from you. So that's why I get the class and I wanted to improve my presentation skills. and the texture in general.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean the details are s sick. I mean just so great. Mission accomplished. ⁓ how long did it take? Did you do it within the eight weeks or did it take I think you did.
speaker-1: Yeah, I did it of the class time. It was eight or ten weeks Yeah, created this work on the class, but I working after my Full-time job. I don't know in hours I can say but it It was like I spent from two hours to 12 hours a day
speaker-0: Wow. I hope the weekends were the twelve hours. That's a lot. Yes. Yeah, I mean that's a lot crammed in. Like I tell people it's always more than you think. And then yeah, like you have a lot to model here. There's a lot going on. And so you did say the kind of software that you ⁓ used here looks like quite a bit, different things. ⁓ Marvelous Designer used.
speaker-1: I use Marvel designer. Yes, I use ZBrush for high poly and block out, Maya to low poly. Also, Marvel designer, I created the sleeves of her jacket. Fiber Shop, I use for the hair texture, And Unreal Engine for presentation, substance for texturing. And also, I use Xgen for making her. Lashes and... the lashes, okay. Yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah, wow, epic. And the dragon, you just did the whole dragon Z brush?
speaker-1: Yes, yes. The dragon was the most hardest part, I think. ⁓
speaker-0: Wow. Ha cool. Yeah, I mean it's like obviously very different than a character. It's like kind of an advanced prop and it's it's interesting how that happens sometimes. Hardest part it's like not really a focal point, but it's there. And if someone looks up there, that's what's so cool. It's like you're like, ⁓ dang, like it it holds up. You can see all the TLC that goes into that. I love the ornamentation here too on the visor.
speaker-1: The dragon was close to the face and the face is an interesting point of view so it should be good.
speaker-0: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, really cool. But yeah, so that that's actually one of my questions I like to ask is what was the hardest part? You see they think the dragon, not the face or the hair, must have been a challenge.
speaker-1: No, the dragon and her ornament on the helmet also. I spent more time on the sculpting on it. When I texture it, the hardest part was the ropes, yellow ropes. Oh, wow. On her arms, I mean? Oh, all over. These? No, no. Which one? Oh, right here. Close, yes, to the face. OK.
speaker-0: Wrists ⁓
speaker-1: I just spend more time on this ops maybe than on a face.
speaker-0: I kinda remember you asking about it, how to get the the weave looking right, and you can kind of see it kind of I guess moving with the UVs, but yeah, you don't really maybe you intentionally didn't do a big close up that has them, right? But it they they look fine. ⁓ here's one. Here's one. Yeah, here's kind of a close up, yeah.
speaker-1: Cheers. It might be shoot better but I can do it because I have limit of time and I'm trying to spend more time ⁓ on lightning and the texture of the film.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean I got some more questions about stuff, but maybe we can just go in and and and see some files while you chat about it. It'd be cool to see ⁓ like the high poly maybe, ⁓ if you have like where how it started and how it finished, that'd be really cool to see.
speaker-1: ⁓ I have a high poly detail file and also have lot of screenshots with VIP versions.
speaker-0: Let's ya. I'd love to see I love seeing the final Z brush files. And yeah, any work in progress. I love all those like that didn't make the cut and everything. Is this decimated or something? Do not have subdivisions on like the sleeves?
speaker-1: Yes, I have subdivisions and some parts I dismayed for sharing. ⁓ I said that I use dynamic subdivision for these parts. So it's preview. Make the scene lighter than this. I can show the screen first.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah the C reference. Heck yeah. Okay cool. So yeah, so this also has all your work your work in progress images, cool.
speaker-1: Yeah, this is a book out stage. It starts from here.
speaker-0: Yeah. You already have the head cooked in and everything too.
speaker-1: The head is just base mesh with small tweaks. I didn't work on it on the blockout stage. On the blockout, I tried to separate the mesh with the colors and materials. And for this work, tried to make blockout as detailed as I can. Because I have to design a lot of things by myself. And I tried to see...
speaker-0: Tweaks.
speaker-1: how it will be looks on the final version. The first steps, she looks more rounded, like this shape and this. And they try to make it stronger, like here. For the design, I used the reference of the real armor of Samurai, Samurai timer. And I'm trying to find more pictures I can. So... I watched YouTube video how people made this armor. I like this one. I tried to figure out what this quartz how it match to the metal parts. And also I watched YouTube video from museum. Oh, okay, good. And take screenshots like this. So I can say that the hardest part was to create the design itself. Yeah, I bet. Because I have armor, samurai armor reference, ⁓ but I should think about the shapes, the silhouettes, and how to make it works together. This is a progress screenshots.
speaker-0: That block out, it looks you know, you might think, ⁓ it's so far from being done, but like it's a good block out because it has all of the things accounted for, like those weave, the you know, the the shoulder pads are pretty complex. It feels like it feels like there's a lot of modeling going on, which is a good strong block out, but it feels like it's it was probably quite a bit of work to get here, no? Like how much time does it take you to do that? It's like a lot of modeling.
speaker-1: I I spent five days for two or four hours. But I tried to find how I should create these small pieces ⁓ as quickly as I can. So I spent time on it. And these details, like this yellow quartz, I sculpted with a clay build-up just to see how it looks. And also this ornament I use also clay build up and paint to make these details.
speaker-0: Cool, perfect. That way you get a sense of the character as quickly as possible and you can change shapes like you were cueing in on the shapes of the armor and trying to strengthen it before you get into the final modeling.
speaker-1: Yeah, and also I'm trying to kept it as low as possible and use a lot of dynamic subdivision, especially for the small pieces.
speaker-0: Yeah, so in the end all the little ropes all the little pieces of rope are are dynamic.
speaker-1: Yes, yes. Here it's just clay build up. But the final version, it's dynamic subdiv. Yeah, can tell how I made it. Yeah, cool. So I have a few types of these cords, like the smaller, longer, this one, some parts with this ⁓ curved shape.
speaker-0: Okay.
speaker-1: It's just to close this hole. Good. I made it by myself. It plays it here.
speaker-0: ⁓ you made little brushes. Okay, great.
speaker-1: Yeah, this is a low ⁓ poly, but it looks like this one. So I use micropoly for all of the smaller pieces.
speaker-0: ⁓ micro poly, okay.
speaker-1: Yes, when I started I tried to find a way how I should make it quicker and lighter. ⁓ So, micropoly is only preview, so it doesn't make my scene heavy and it allows me to change the base geometry, so without dynamic it looks like only polygons. And for the armor also follow these parts, it looks like.
speaker-0: ⁓ wow, okay. I don't use micropoly. So yeah, it's ⁓ they're like stand ins, but you can move them around.
speaker-1: It's a tool because I made with this high poly and also I made with this low poly parts ⁓
speaker-0: ⁓ so you can yeah, so you okay. So you can make like what you just showed us almost was like a a low poly.
speaker-1: I want to say that I made this high poly version. Okay. Yeah Yeah, and I didn't apply it in for bake. I just baked the one piece I easily can change the high poly piece on low poly version Like you can see this is high poly. Yeah, and I can change on low poly and applied it and use it like lopole. So it helps me to make changes and faster.
speaker-0: Really good for repeating elements it looks like.
speaker-1: Yeah, it's really great. But sometimes UV might be broken. But it's easy to fix in Maya with transfer attributes.
speaker-0: Yeah, super super clean. It's good to see ⁓ how you're you're faking it. You know, a a lot of times newer people will actually try and like weave everything and drive themselves crazy, but doing it just with the pieces to make it look like it's that's that's how you wanna do it for sure.
speaker-1: I use it for not only for the armor but the other smaller parts like this pattern. It's also dynamic. takes... ⁓ yeah. Yes. And it's easily way to make low poly for the smaller parts. I just can replace the low poly and it's already ready. So when I work on something like this...
speaker-0: Whoa. Wow using a lot.
speaker-1: I tried to start from the simple shapes and then I applied the dynamic subdivision. I divided it.
speaker-0: Dragons or how'd you get the dragon art? Did you make that or did you get it somewhere?
speaker-1: ⁓ This dragon I find alpha. I've been interested with dragon. yes, it's really great alpha. the first I thought maybe I just get this coin like this one. On the VIP version, it placed only coin. I made this dragon when I start texturing. ⁓ It's just... I experimented a lot actually with this part and the pattern of the clothes also, but it's on texture.
speaker-0: Yeah, the cloth looks really good too by the way. I don't know if you wanna jump there already, but if you're gonna say something, I don't mean to interrupt you, but just admiring your sleeves. They look awesome.
speaker-1: These sleeves I made for... it was very quickly actually. ⁓ I used for this Marvel's designer, I can show it.
speaker-0: Yeah, show show. So are you comfortable with Marvelous? How much have you used it?
speaker-1: Not too much, but I can make the simple garments and to make folds with pins and change fabric presets. ⁓ It's part also experimented, but these sleeves I made very quickly. I use pins a lot to get the right shapes. I wanted to make the sleeves bigger because... ⁓ Her armor is is kind of big shapes and I have to balance this with the sleeve is a clothes so For the color for for this I use beset fabric wood wool for me it's this presets is a control and draw folds so ⁓ When I saw it I just ⁓ you like them. Yes how I made it
speaker-0: You say drawful? Now, is this it could just be a different version, but like unless I'm mistaken, this all this doesn't look exactly like what I see in Z Brush now.
speaker-1: Because I changed it in the brush also. ⁓ tweaked the shapes and I changed it. I flip it because I like this sleeves on this hands. And also I use it for the right hands but made a few tweaks.
speaker-0: Yeah, that like that part right there that you moused over it looks nice. That that kind of bicep on the screen right area. Like is that what it looks like in Marvelous too, or did you do a s did you end up doing a lot of sculpting too to finesse it?
speaker-1: Yes, I used the sculpting also. I applied alphas and ⁓ applied texture with memory folds. And I tweaked the geometry, like I said, to create these shapes.
speaker-0: Yeah, it's great. It's great, great, great job. Nice. Yeah, very cool.
speaker-1: Yeah, and also when I work on the Marvelous Designer I try to keep the block out also here. For reference, yes. And to get these folds on her arm from these ropes I also applied it here and freeze it just to make fabric with the folds. ⁓
speaker-0: For reference. So it's interacting with it, right?
speaker-1: Yes, I have some intersection in ZBrush, but I will move for fixed.
speaker-0: Sure. Okay. So that's so you have those things in there for the simulation. So that it's it's tight right there.
speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. I use it also. Sometimes ⁓ I use it like a mesh, but as I remember, also add in Marvel's designer ropes like a garment. Okay.
speaker-0: Yeah, like fabric. ⁓
speaker-1: Yes, this is a vegetal garment. The other part of the clothes like ⁓ this body clothes and belt I sculpted in ZBrush with standard brush and clay build up also. This is a belt. First I start with Sculptus Pro, but then I remeasured it and project details.
speaker-0: Yeah, very cool. What about the face? How did you ⁓ end up detailing it or any th any was it pretty straightforward making it, or did have any ⁓ any surprises there? Harder than you thought, easier than you thought. 'Cause you had to make it up and I also love the style that I think it ended up with. I think it ended up being something unique and not too much of one thing and it's not super realistic, if you know what I mean. Like her eyes are a little bit more, you know. Exaggerated. So anyways, I I just think it came out nice and it'd be cool to hear your process and see the detailing.
speaker-1: Can I share it? So, for the head. I started working on the head when I already have texture in Substance Painter for the other part. Yes, first I tried to make similar look on the concept in ZBrush, but I always keep in mind that in ZBrush it's not the final version. You can see the real look of...
speaker-0: Interesting.
speaker-1: the face especially only in engine. Yeah. So I start from here. I use a lot of reference for it. First, I try to find something the real person, Asian girl. And also I find the good reference from the character. Yes. So on the concept she looks like she has a baby face. Yeah. Because
speaker-0: Like CG girls and stuff.
speaker-1: big lips, big eyes, small nose. I tried to make her in realism and I have to balance between anime style and realism. So I can say that I use this reference a lot and I was inspired by this one.
speaker-0: I can see a little bit of the DNA in in both of those in yours. That's cool.
speaker-1: Yeah, she looks so natural and they wanted to achieve this effect so I can... Vip version of face. It is the first iteration. ⁓ Yes, I tried to see how it looks.
speaker-0: Full screen, full screen, let's see. And this is path tracing in Unreal? This doesn't look too bad by the way for a first one. First version. That's not too bad. I'd be optimistic. I'd be like, all right, yeah, this is gonna be good. It's not like, ⁓ shit.
speaker-1: Yeah, she looks like a human, like a girl, but it doesn't look like on the concept. I wanted to be close to the concept also and I wanted to make her pretty. So this is first version and I work between ZBrush and engine to see changes and I try to make the quick tweaks and send it to Unreal to see this is the second one so this is small tricks the third
speaker-0: And what are you doing for the color? Is that just hand painting?
speaker-1: I want to say that I have six iterations to get this one, but actually I spent maybe eight hours on the face. So for the color I used, I started from base mesh, but then I transferred the head, V face, head. Yes, and also I texturing. XYZ? Yes, yes. I can open... When I created the first situation of the head, I made the quick texture from the face and maybe I changed the lips, color of the lips and this eye line. But the final texturing I was doing when I have the final version of the face. This one. She looks like Anna Taylor Joy. Yeah, yeah. And actually this almost
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: The final version I just tweak her eyes closer to the nose. I was afraid that I create 60 years old baby in armor. So I tried to make her more feminine.
speaker-0: Feminine. Nice. She reminds me of somebody else, so I just don't know who, but feels like it feels it maybe just feels like a person, but that's a good thing.
speaker-1: So I used a lot of reference for it and also the concept, the main idea of your face. In ZBrush I kept all changes in layers.
speaker-0: Way you could go back if you need to. And there's the eyes moving, yep.
speaker-1: Here I applied the texture detail. It's the face. And this is the final tweak for her face. And I use this mesh with a reference to see the right shapes. To make her more like a woman. I try to enhance her cheek bone because woman's face already has a lot of common shapes with the child and I have to think how to make her more young woman.
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, but like not too young. You're you're trying to make her a little bit older but also still stylized and attractive, right? Yeah, it's a fine line. And yeah, it's it's cool to see you working it out. Yeah, I think just a little bit more of the stuff that you did helped.
speaker-1: Also I create the block out of her hair
speaker-0: Yeah, smart. I used that to make the guides or later used it to do the hair card mesh and you followed it. You brought this into Maya or something?
speaker-1: Yes, I created this one and edited like a block out reference for the making hair cards. I can switch to the hair cards also.
speaker-0: U used G S curves tool or no? No. ⁓ you did? Okay.
speaker-1: Yes. ⁓ I made the texture in Fibershop. It's a simple texture. It looks like this one. also super simple. And then I used the ⁓ G-Secret tool for placing cards. This is really great instrument because you can control the curves and switch UVs and...
speaker-0: Very, very yeah, very cool to use because it's like it's just so much made for this job that you know, yeah. Really helps the process. And ⁓ yeah, it's cool to see I think just take note for people about card hair 'cause obviously you know, it's a challenge and it's time consuming and I think it's intimidating for people. And oftentimes when people are talking to me, obviously just mi do your best, you know, get in there and and ex and try stuff and through experience you're gonna get the gist but I think yours really illustrates because to me, hair cards is the culmination of of all the stuff. It's not like super great textures makes a great, you know, hair card mesh. It's it's everything together. And you know, the fact that you can show the hair card texture and it doesn't look like mind-blowing, it looks very achievable. Like, ⁓ this is just clean hair texture. And you see how much care goes into the placement, this is where the naturalism ⁓ comes across is the taking the time to layer these. These hair clumps making sure they're different and they're overlapping and there there's like personality in them and and yeah, just it shows like how important the ⁓ actual curation of the mesh. Cause I would say this is a relatively simple, you know, hair card project, but it comes out great, you know, it does exactly what it needs to do and it and it ⁓ doesn't look low quality at all, it looks very high quality and and you can see the parts that it's made out of.
speaker-1: ⁓ Yeah, but my hairstyle wasn't difficult. I have to create a ⁓ smaller part around her face. Yeah, you know... Yeah, and that's why because I choose this concept also. I don't want to make a hairstyle because it takes time. Yeah. Sometimes a lot. So I use... In this standard practice I use the full density texture card like a base and then apply mid texture cards and like flow ways to create more natural
speaker-0: My favorite part, the tiny ones.
speaker-1: Yeah, because on this stage you can see how it looks. It looks more prettier than the other stage. And also I create your eyelashes and brows with the cushion.
speaker-0: Yeah. So you're actually rendering those as curves in the engine, grooms.
speaker-1: Yes, I made it with Vizaggen because it's too easy to Vizaggen eyelashes and it's very quickly like you spend 15 minutes and it's ready for the picture. Yeah, and there is also my low poly.
speaker-0: And it looks awesome too. Yeah, ⁓ what was the final poly count? Never too much. Is it under five?
speaker-1: Too much? Like, eight- eight- eight- eight thousand.
speaker-0: Eight eight hundred thousand probably. So kids like Hellblade. I mean those ropes look crazy, dude. I mean that those ropes it's those ropes kidney. Look at the wireframe's just dense. Look at it just turns into blue
speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ If you're about this one...
speaker-0: No, they're ⁓ on her by her armpits, yeah.
speaker-1: I also created with Xgen, but I translated it to polygons and applied simple texture with fabric for it. And also this one. ⁓
speaker-0: Converted to strip. ⁓ wow, okay, yeah. This will get ya.
speaker-1: I don't want to make her low poly too much. ⁓ I try to create the awesome picture.
speaker-0: And you did. I d I know. So this is exactly what to do. And you can and and it's still real time, you know, it's like it's kind of sometimes people call it mid poly, but also, you know, some games are gonna are are gonna look like this, you know, in the not too distant future. It lasts a long time in your portfolio, looks awesome, like you say. And you can always reduce, you know. You can always go down, but it's yeah, it's just you'll make something awesome. And it's still real time. You can move the camera around and yeah, why why make it look ⁓ bad for no good reason? Yeah. I like it.
speaker-1: For the low poly I also use files from ZBrush. I get the first sub diff from ZBrush, Because when I'm working on low poly I'm also trying to ⁓ have a good topology to reuse it for ⁓ low poly.
speaker-0: Yeah. It'd be be cool to see well, maybe anything special with the UVs? Are you using UDIMs or anything or no? How many materials is it?
speaker-1: ⁓ Yes, I use Udims. ⁓ It was a lot. I was worried about that.
speaker-0: Now we see how you get some some patterns on the neck now. See Wow, okay.
speaker-1: Maybe it's too much. ⁓ Yes. Maybe, maybe.
speaker-0: Are these all four K? Okay, that's ⁓ Is there such thing as too much? I don't know, but it is a lot.
speaker-1: It's a lot. I want to create... Maybe more because here it plays... ⁓ A lot of stuff. I want to make the high resolution. ⁓ That's why it's too much. I can switch to the...
speaker-0: Five, six, twelve. Twelve, four cards, yeah. Yeah, the face, the hand Yeah. Yeah, well were you able to bake it all in one go or was it crashing and you had to do separate?
speaker-1: Yes, I have crashed. But I was surprised because I usually don't bake in substance. ⁓
speaker-0: But of course I have craft. You're a marmoset. Are you a marmoset person?
speaker-1: Because I started from this and on work also I use marmoset. ⁓ But I was surprised because substance really bake it but I have a lot of polygons here.
speaker-0: Yeah, and the Udemy is fast, right? I mean it's it's actually I love doing it now because I d I haven't even done twelve twelve four K Udems before. ⁓ and you're displaying it at four K too. I mean it's crazy. I mean you must have just a normal ish machine, right? Like a forty ninety or something.
speaker-1: No, it's a 46. But when I'm on this project, I was working on my laptop. When I created this project, my laptop works fine, but now I can't open
speaker-0: Okay. It'd still work fine. At the end, yeah. You got that now, yeah. That's a
speaker-1: I don't know why, so...
speaker-0: Probably a memory thing. I don't it could be a graphics card thing, but you know you know when you turn it you know when you're going for a long time and then you open it later too and you like turn off a layer and then you have to wait for the whole thing to load for it to like actually turn off and turn on. I think that's a memory thing 'cause I reach that limit too sometimes just with the amount of layers. But anyways, the fact that twelve four K Udems in one layer stack and you can just paint across them, it is great. It is you know, it it is cool.
speaker-1: For the optimization, actually I hide some UDs. And you can... Yes, it helps. And I change resolution, I just make it lower. For example, when I'm working on the face, I change other parts on 1K.
speaker-0: I feel that it's faster. And you can also isolate a UDIM tile, right? ⁓ each. Like you can you can click one and then hit the one so you're just working on it. It helps too, yeah. So it it is ⁓ lots of benefits if you're able to use U DIMs. And I think especially for personal projects, it's hard to not do that 'cause it's easier, yeah, and higher quality.
speaker-1: Yeah, that's why I choose Udimso. ⁓ So this is the texture. I can start from the face.
speaker-0: Yeah, sure. Maybe the face and then I had some questions about the patterns and stuff. But yeah, let's let's see how you set up the face.
speaker-1: So I start from the base color from V-phase texture.
speaker-0: Speaking up, there we go. See you turn off layers and you look it's loading. So I'm talking about
speaker-1: Yes, yes. So I start from here and then I applied some... I changed the color, made it lighter and removed this ⁓ blue spot here.
speaker-0: You mind you mind showing it ⁓ just the base color channel?
speaker-1: Yeah, and here with the lips I change color of lips following the concept she
speaker-0: ⁓ yeah.
speaker-1: Yes, lashes would be more. As you can see, I... Too much red make it the first time. So, this is the makeup. I applied with a... a folder. Yeah, there is too much blush. And actually this is the main point of your face. I applied the nose and the cheeks and the eyes also. Like in the real life.
speaker-0: ⁓ wow. Yeah.
speaker-1: girls do
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean I I was just thinking that. I was like maybe you've got some insider knowledge, like if you do makeup on yourself or anything like that, you probably know like where to put it and how much and stuff like that.
speaker-1: ⁓ For the project it's not so special, I just applied more blushes on the cheeks and the nose and a little on her eyes. ⁓
speaker-0: I I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have done the eyes. I d I I don't even think I would have done the nose. That's how dumb. I just would have put it on her cheeks, I guess.
speaker-1: ⁓ And sometimes ⁓ girls clean this face and make it more lighter, but I
speaker-0: I was thinking, w re did you just wanna maybe keep some of some of the age, some of the details so you didn't cover it up?
speaker-1: Yes, because without these blue spots she looks like a doll, not like a real person. And I edited makeup here. For this I used some simple tutorials and all the textures I saw how it looks on the different models.
speaker-0: Nice.
speaker-1: It's easy to find on Pinterest, so I think everyone can make it.
speaker-0: I mean and that's just something to note. Maybe we've talked with other character artists too when you're doing a character with makeup. There's a huge world of makeup tutorials out there because of actual people doing makeup. So yeah, you can find some really detailed like videos and explanations on how to ⁓ you can literally find a tutorial on how like how to do a a certain kind of cat eye or whatever, right? And you can you can follow it in a way in your texture.
speaker-1: what I do and also sometimes I use this guide to break up the face but here maybe I have maybe don't so I increase blue parts here mm-hmm and I line so this is the this is it this color and also I increase the roughness on her no
speaker-0: Nice and clean.
speaker-1: But you can see here is a darker.
speaker-0: Uhhuh. ⁓ okay, yeah, yeah. Because of the blush. So you had yeah, you have it you have it be more matte. Or no, you have it be more shiny actually. Mm-hmm. Okay.
speaker-1: Yes. I want to make it more shiny. Cool. So this is a face. And here's some cavity and the shadow, extra shadow on the nose. And more blush.
speaker-0: Okay, good. Yeah.
speaker-1: and shiny. Sometimes I use filter with unsaturation.
speaker-0: To check your values.
speaker-1: Yes, ⁓ but actually I also use it when I get pictures from Unreal to check the lights and the shadows.
speaker-0: ⁓ really? That's interesting. So you save out your textures black and white and set up lighting?
speaker-1: No, no. When I work in Unreal, I get the picture from here. And in Photoshop, I also unsaturate to see the volumes. And maybe there some spots when I have to add more shadow or maybe highlights. And also, I use it for the texturing, this filter.
speaker-0: ⁓ I wanted to ask about some of the tiling patterns. You have the neck, two ⁓ neck ones, you have the like kind of kimono, whatever. So are you finding these all of these tiling patterns? Are you finding them ⁓ online somewhere? Are you making any of them?
speaker-1: ⁓ First I create base, metal base layer material and applied it on all of parts of armor, instance a cross. It's here. It allows to apply the materials between your dims. And then I working on the other parts separately. because sometimes I want to have more control and paint my mask with by the hand so that's why I didn't use one material on the whole metal parts for example I opened base color because I want to show you color so I start from the dragon I want to say that I use a lot of reference for the texturing starting from the reference with armor and also use props, ⁓ to the models of props. And at that time, ⁓ on our station was Artblast with artworks from Wukong. When artist shares his base color map, like this one, when I saw it, I thought, it's really, really awesome.
speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, so good.
speaker-1: And I want to make something like that, but not too damaged. So I blended a lot of color spots and I tried to use contrast also. And I tried to break up ⁓ this armor parts with value. So this is more darker than this one.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: And also for the small armor pieces I also used different colors. Some of these have the same texture, the same UV. And in the end I applied a sharper filter. And sometimes I used also
speaker-0: Some are stacked. Okay, yeah.
speaker-1: ⁓ some filters to change the contrast of the color.
speaker-0: Doesn't look like it's on right now though. ⁓ you turned it off.
speaker-1: ⁓ I turn it off this one.
speaker-0: I see, I see, there you go. So now we can see what that did. This is the contrast now, right?
speaker-1: without sharper yes this without sharper so it looks like magic button
speaker-0: Yeah. Now what about the the patterns? There's so many different patterns on the clothing.
speaker-1: Yeah, for the clothes, I experimented a lot with the patterns because the concept is like color and that's all. This picture from... I want to show you some of the first iterations. It was like that one and I thought create...
speaker-0: Okay, so pretty subtle to start with. Yeah.
speaker-1: This pattern of her clothes not too visible how I made it the final version like this one. So it looks like this. I don't know how I should create her belt. So I start from here, it was blue also, but in the end I applied reddish. For the pattern I used this texture. This one actually. So it for the clothes.
speaker-0: You just found that?
speaker-1: Yes, I found it on Pinterest, but I tried with different patterns also. I think...
speaker-0: Looks like you outlined it or something too.
speaker-1: Yes, I maybe...
speaker-0: That came out great. Did you use a a mask outline for that or a anchor or anything?
speaker-1: I use anchors and mask. I applied this like a mask. great. Yes. And work with the echo points.
speaker-0: Just noticing the ⁓ chain mail again too, it's cause awesome.
speaker-1: ⁓ Yeah, I I baked it on the plane. It's just a normal
speaker-0: So you had it in the high poly and then you baked it? And then you used ⁓ color, like a color ID to pull the
speaker-1: Yes, yes. ⁓ alpha yes maybe I have it here yes yeah for for the chainmail I I baked it but this smaller parts I want to make it separate like in real life because there is a yes and this one I want to show you it's it's plain so some some of the parts I bake it on the plane because
speaker-0: Well Yeah.
speaker-1: It doesn't have the special shape like this one. And for the pattern of the belt and this shirt I use this picture also from Pinterest. ⁓ I use it like a mask. I don't know, there's too much. Yeah, this is a mask ⁓ with yellow color metal...
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Ha ha.
speaker-1: and roughness. And for these flowers I use concept. ⁓
speaker-0: ⁓ cool. You pulled up on the original? Nice. Fun. It's got some so it's got some actual piece of the original concept. Love that.
speaker-1: I try to blend colors a lot ⁓ even ⁓ if it doesn't see on the final picture from engine it makes texture more rich and for this I also use some picture from Pinterest yes I try not to use not ⁓ too much colors
speaker-0: Yeah, rich.
speaker-1: for this project and sometimes for the help I use ⁓ color palette. So this is about the patterns and for this ropes.
speaker-0: Now again these a lot of these are stacked. So you have ⁓ they're pretty big in the UVs, I would guess. Like they have a lot of pixels or no?
speaker-1: I think it's too much because I didn't optimize.
speaker-0: It looks like that's good, that's big. Yep. And what about the ones on the helmet? Those are the ones on the helmet?
speaker-1: Yeah. On the helmet? It's the same.
speaker-0: Okay, yeah. Yeah, those are pretty big. If those are four K textures, yeah, those are pretty big. That's good.
speaker-1: These ropes are placed around the face so it should be high resolution.
speaker-0: You did the gloves, you did you went all the way down the gloves, you didn't have hands though. Did you not spend too much time on the gloves? I hope not. You're probably like, ⁓ I'm probably not gonna see these.
speaker-1: I the hands and I made it when I have...
speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, she's holding Yeah, she's holding the mask. So you did the hands.
speaker-1: Yes. ⁓ When I started, I was worried that I have limit of time and I can make the hands in the mask, but I made it. ⁓ For the hands, I take hands from ⁓ metahuman. Yeah.
speaker-0: ⁓ okay, good. Her nails are cool too, I didn't notice, yeah. I think I kinda remember you ⁓ like maybe the plan was to like maybe the hand was a stretch goal or something and then
speaker-1: I ask you about should I do the hands and the mask and you say... Because limit of time and...
speaker-0: And hands are hard, I mean, yeah, you're doing the right thing. You you're you're doing what you know how to do and and yeah, that's good. It's generally good advice 'cause hands if you're like, ⁓ should I do a hand? If you can avoid it, no, but it it really adds to the project, obviously having it's great that it's in there, so I'm glad you pulled that off. And it's smart to use meta humans to get started.
speaker-1: I take metahuman hands and change UVs, make it bigger. ⁓ I use only hands.
speaker-0: Well, okay, so hold on, because I thought you would use metahuman hands because of the UVs because then you get the textures for free.
speaker-1: Yes, ⁓ but I changed the UVs, make resolution bigger, and then I transferred the base color and the other. And also I made the changes for the nail because
speaker-0: Yeah, you made longer nails, yeah, that's just nice. And they're separate or no? Or that's apology? Okay, cool. Nice. But you had to do the hands in its own substance project at the end.
speaker-1: It's a... Yes, it was. I can show it, but I think it's not interesting.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean it's cool to s it's just cool to see. And ⁓ what about the mask? Is that also ⁓ no, the mask is right there, yeah. Cool. Yeah so you knew you were gonna do the mask the whole time. You were gonna do a masked version, right? Like an alternate.
speaker-1: I a almost when I was finished. ⁓ When I posted here, I needed a mask and I created it and I spent I think one day to make it.
speaker-0: ⁓ wow, okay.
speaker-1: This is the hands.
speaker-0: Alright, there we go. You put a skin shader on there, you know, some lighting, it'll be good. Yes.
speaker-1: ⁓ And I use Metahuman's texture so it works perfectly.
speaker-0: Yeah, so maybe maybe ⁓ go ahead.
speaker-1: I try to save more time as I can
speaker-0: Yeah, some shortcuts. Yeah. I mean that's good. That's normal. That's what people do. ⁓ yeah, maybe we could maybe we could chat a little bit about the posing, like maybe the original idea if it's anything different than the ⁓ concept, maybe not. You obviously have a nice pose, you did a background and then ⁓ and then maybe how you posed it and then could finish up with how you did your unreal renders.
speaker-1: Yeah, so let me open the Unreal.
speaker-0: So it looks like you you posed it in Z brush using transpose master the old fashioned way, nice and carefully.
speaker-1: Yes, I use ZBrush for Pulse here and I use Transpulse Master for it. first of all, I made here in a T-pose or A-pose and then I post here. I want to create Pulse like on the concept. I think it was my second iteration of Pulse here because the first one was more boring than this.
speaker-0: So you did a whole session where you posed it and then ⁓ you didn't like it and then you did it again?
speaker-1: I create a pose and I watch how it looks in the engine and how it works with the camera. ⁓ So this is the first one. I think this is better.
speaker-0: Of course, yeah. A lot going on with the hand too.
speaker-1: Yeah, and she looks more alive here. I need to open the engine.
speaker-0: How much time did you spend on just the posing?
speaker-1: I two days, one day. It wasn't like I made the pose and so ⁓ I changed it. I think I spent the half of the all of the time ⁓ on her look-deaf and lighting and pose also I can say.
speaker-0: After you saw her. But longer th than I think people might think. And then posing too can be very 'cause it's not a you know, let's say ultra dynamic pose or whatever, but still like you have to carefully move things and mass things. It could be ⁓ Yeah, it could take longer than you think. ⁓ I love seeing the scene where it's all set up. Look at that.
speaker-1: I can open the difference in actually this is a main
speaker-0: I like this one 'cause you have like a photo backdrop, you know, it's fun. You have like a forest
speaker-1: Yes, I opened the first look in the engine. This was the first iteration of her pose. And I tried to find a more suitable angle like on the concept and I found it.
speaker-0: Cool. Now did you set up a light just for the eyes, for the eye highlight?
speaker-1: I can show the lights here and how I made it. First I edited some skylights here ⁓ with the blue cool atmosphere and the main light, ⁓ I wanted to highlight the dragon. This one to light from different angles. Lights for the background, it's different. And these small lights, actually are hard to see, but this one, tiny blue highlights, I try not to fake reflection from environment, like in the woods. And also this one, it's hard to see.
speaker-0: Nice room light.
speaker-1: ⁓ I tried to fake sunlight. It calls in the woods.
speaker-0: Great, great setup.
speaker-1: Actually, ⁓ when I working on the presentation and the texturing, I watched TV show Shogun. Yeah. And it's about medieval Japan. ⁓ And for the background, I use screenshots from this TV show. this is shot from the final episode, So this is background. when the when
speaker-0: Vale.
speaker-1: I applied it here on the plane. I love how it works. It works ⁓ really great. creates...
speaker-0: I mean look at the colors. Yeah I mean it has a vertical line. The colors are are like the shoulder pad, it's very cool.
speaker-1: Actually I was afraid working with green-blue environment and the lights because it's difficult color to give the emotion because green color it's tricky color it gives you the calm emotion and also the kind of dangerous atmosphere but it works here great and this highlights from the sun across her eyes and make some action line, an invisible line. And when I'm working on her pose, I also try to make this kind of guideline for the audience, like this one and this. also I try to break up the symmetry of the pose. ⁓ That's she angle of your head and the body and the rotation also I think it make ⁓ picture more artist
speaker-0: It's great. Yeah, more like a portrait, classical. And it has that feeling. It has a feeling of a classical portrait. Like someone like a like a professional photographer went somewhere and took it of her. It's cool.
speaker-1: I didn't use one shot of the serial I tried on the TV show I tried to use a lot and experimented with it so this is one of my experimentations actually I have more but I didn't save it ⁓ it will be funny to show and also this one I tried to use something with firelight background and I used it before ⁓
speaker-0: Look how dark the show gets though, huh? Isn't that crazy?
speaker-1: I use the screenshots like a reference for the light and also like a background. So it works perfectly. Also, I can open the different. I first created ⁓ this level with warm light, ⁓ but I can find the right background for her. For my experimentation, I created new levels to change the lights and the background. So here,
speaker-0: Yeah, see that.
speaker-1: with the fire lights and for the portraits this one I use this one
speaker-0: ⁓ yes. That's the one I'm looking at right now. Nice. This there it is.
speaker-1: When I posed her, I tried to find the right angle of her camera and this was the first shot.
speaker-0: You can really see a big difference. I mean, it looks more like a C G kind of like toy. Look at the difference and ⁓ ha so much more cinematic and like ⁓ again, more like a photographer, I think just the color and value of the lights. It's really cool to see the difference. Lighting makes.
speaker-1: She doesn't have the final texture also and a lot
speaker-0: Lashes. Okay. The lashes make a big difference too. Yeah.
speaker-1: Yes, when I saw it, I think it would be my preview shot for the project. And I like this camera shape, but it didn't fit for the final version. ⁓ it's kind of iteration of this shot also.
speaker-0: Uh-huh. Yeah, very cool to see. Yeah. And then ⁓ really small changes like a mounting, you know, obviously tip of the iceberg, that's so much work that went to get here, but just seeing yeah, the difference between the top and the bottom, I feel like it's ⁓ really, really strong and it's just lots of little things.
speaker-1: Yeah, it was hard to post it on the camera, like she looks through the camera on the audience.
speaker-0: Yeah. So you always had her it kinda looks like she's looking at us now, but it maybe not. And then you rendered it with path tracing.
speaker-1: Yes, ⁓ use move render for it.
speaker-0: Yeah, movie render queue. And then how how big are you saving it out and how long did the renders take per image, would you say?
speaker-1: 5 hours maybe for one... I guess. Maybe two. Maybe I just...
speaker-0: Five hours? ⁓ what do you say? Still, that's pretty pretty epic there. So you just cranked it up. It worked, it worked. Wow. I mean that's a straight up like, you know, offline render I it pass racing pretty much is offline rendering, but yeah. That's crazy.
speaker-1: I want to make details. Maybe it was less, I tried to compare with Arnold, but Arnold make one picture for today's. Yeah, Unreal Engine works really faster.
speaker-0: Arnold's slower for sure. Yeah, I mean it came out great and ⁓ you took the class and you don't have like a large portfolio now, but just ⁓ just looking at the final result and now talking to you, it just seems like there's a lot of expertise there. So yeah, I mean you're doing you're doing great and you're doing all the all you know, using all these tools and you know, hear the the thought, very meticulous, very, you know, detailed and ⁓ yeah, you it's like you're making stuff and not only that looks a certain way but The way you're making it is like someone who's a senior ⁓ artist, you know, so I just think you're you crushed it.
speaker-1: Thank you. I want to say that your feedback and feedback from Charit also make a lot of impact of this project and the lessons of the class. I think this project allows me to be an artist ⁓ and it works great.
speaker-0: Yeah, cool. Yeah, I mean, ⁓ really happy the outcome and and also the to hear you say that just makes me feel like, you know, I think you I mean it was a lot of work, obviously, but I'd like to think you had fun. ⁓ you know, you pick something that gave you a lot of freedom and you know, if you're not prepared for it or and again, that's why my general advice is like, Hey, hey, careful now. ⁓ this could be bad, right? But I think you took it and ran with it. Like you took a concept that you liked and it gave you enough creative freedom that you have to create some stuff. And ⁓ yeah, again, I mean just the outcome speaks for itself. And now it's it's much more of a collaboration that you got to, you know, do some design and costume stuff and the colors, you know, curating the portrait, the pose, the the the age of the girl. So much freedom, ⁓ room for you to kind of flex your muscles that you've obviously been just accruing over time. And maybe ⁓ this was like an outlet to pour it all into it. So I think it's just yeah, it's really, really great to see. Glad the opportunity lined up. ⁓ a couple questions just I like to end on just in case and so we can share with other people doing stuff. First one is just like was there a main thing when you think back on this project now, is there a singular or you know, the largest lesson let's say that you're gonna take with you that that sticks with you after this, that you that you feel like you you gained on this one, that you know you'll be, you know, feeling the effects of on your future projects?
speaker-1: to make a lot of experimentation and iteration. This is the main thing when you create a personal project especially. I guess this is most important part. work faster I think. When you ⁓ start on one of the lesson, do not over thinking. I think this is the main point when you create something.
speaker-0: No, I think that's great. And to that I would say, you know, for the class environment, we put a deadline 'cause it gives it's it it can be helpful to have a deadline. It could be a slippery slope if you don't. You know, some people can just you end up not finishing a project is kind of a discipline in itself. But I will say with personal projects, that is really a time for you to, you know, work and get something right, right? Quote unquote. So that you don't 'cause then sometimes in productions you have to sacrifice something. To be finished on time. But yeah, with a personal project, I would hate for that to be the case. I don't don't see any evidence of this here. I think it worked as intended, that it gave you some drive to, you know, like in like, ⁓ I'll I'll figure out how to make a hand really quick, things like that. That's fine. ⁓ but I wouldn't want to limit quality just for a message out there. I think it's finding a balance between taking so long you just drift off and go, this is too much. Or being too hard on yourself, you know. So, anyways, just general advice for anyone listening. If you're doing personal projects, I think setting a a a cushy deadline, but a deadline ⁓ or a soft deadline, just to give yourself something to point at, right? You need something to to spur on, but don't don't stop. You know, you wanna you wanna go as high quality as you can. You know, you don't wanna sell yourself short.
speaker-1: think this project looks like this because I have a limit of time and I focused on this project and tried to make it better and faster and that's why I have lot of iterations and experimentation.
speaker-0: On what matters too, like, you know, I think ⁓ and seeing your pose and everything. Yeah, you you came about you did it very smartly the way you did it. ⁓ anything surprise you when you think back on the project? Was there a main like main main thing you didn't expect ⁓ about the whole process or anything like that?
speaker-1: I want to say that the class helps me to fill my gaps. Which is important. ⁓ Which I was surprised how powerful instrument like micropoly.
speaker-0: Yeah, okay. Especially for your character. I mean, ⁓ I think you had to use that on I say. I I ⁓ I bet I bet I could use it on characters for other reasons, but this one, yeah, I think it was good for you to look into a solution because of the amount I mean, you just e in this frame, the amount of duplicate parts is a lot and then it and then it afforded you that that ability to swap to the low poly that you can make a separate one that was that's probably a big time saver and it and it let you ⁓ yeah, get that quality you wanted. I think that's a b that's a lesson too. Micropoly, every project.
speaker-1: ⁓ Now I use it everywhere. If I have repetitive parts, even two, I use micropoly. It saves me time in the next part when I will create low poly maybe.
speaker-0: Really? ⁓ ⁓ wow. ⁓ Yeah, cool. All right. If you had to do it all over again, is there anything you would do differently?
speaker-1: I'm really happy how it looks now. ⁓ maybe I changed the details of these ornaments because it's too close to the face. It looks fine, but it might be better. And the robes. These yellow robes, I really hate it.
speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, the ropes. Yeah, I remember ⁓ you weren't happy with it but and I I think you artfully avoided it in any close ups and it I don't think anyone notices.
speaker-1: Yeah, maybe because the dragon and the face and the hands with the mask also takes a lot of attention. this look like a pecan. Not interesting part of her. I love the composition of this because you when you saw in picture, you literally saw on your face, but then you can switch on the dragon. And with this
speaker-0: It's more of a background thing, yeah.
speaker-1: small pieces it's like guidelines guide you to the hands and then back on your armor and on again on the face yeah and i think this is the reason why it's work might be stronger and looks interesting and like artistic
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean I I think yeah that you hit the nail on the head there that's you know, the models are are well done, the textures are well done and everything. But that's kinda my main takeaway now after speaking with you, 'cause it's something that's like intuitive when you look at the image, you're like, this seems so pro, so experienced, right? But ⁓ honestly I think the way that you've balanced the details and the colors and the lights of everything, ⁓ I do think that's kind of the The main X factor for this, you know, in different hands, there's just a lot of things going on. And I think it's easy to overlook how that could go ⁓ like awry. That could be a problem. And ⁓ have having an image that's easy and appealing to look at when you have a lot going on is difficult and it and it comes down to a lot of the balancing. So it was cool to see your color schemes, but then the way you're making the lighting, not too much contrast. You have to balance all this stuff. I think you have an intuitive sense for it, or at least you're thoughtful about it. And ⁓ yeah, I think I think just that fact alone that you have that ability, I think is gonna is gonna be what elevates all of your work, you know, from here on out. Cause that's that is something. Like as you say, it's it's the artistic side of it. And you have to be able to jump back in a painter. You know, and and while you're doing ZBrush, you're conscious of like areas of rest or where things are too detailed and saying, like, well, let's not have, you know, pinching wrinkles here because of whatever. Like, there's a there's a overall balancing act that you have to do so that you can make something that the first impression is easy to understand and appealing to look at. And then as your eyes move around, you're like, wow, you know, everything holds up. ⁓ but it's a little bit lower contrast. It's a little bit Any anyways, not to go on and on, but ⁓ I really do think that might be your superpower. I mean I think I think it'll just make every project you do, you know, thinking of it like that, like an artist, right? And trying to balance that stuff will will lift it up.
speaker-1: Yes, I try to balance the big shapes of her armor with the smaller pieces and that makes the contrast of the whole project also.
speaker-0: Yeah, you can definitely see that. Okay, ⁓ here's here's one I like to ask people too. Is there any piece of advice you would give your earlier self?
speaker-1: I already said that it's about not overthinking. ⁓ Make it faster to move it to render. Render software, it's maybe, ⁓ it might be Unreal Engine or other, but it should be placed in Unreal Engine as faster as you can, as soon as you can. And the... iterate, iterate, iterate. It's the whole point. ⁓ But also, I use it a lot, but I think it's also neat to say that the posts make the character more interesting than the T-post. So I didn't make character in T-post for personal project for that reason, because it's looped for it. In general, it's
speaker-0: Absolutely, yeah.
speaker-1: Do not overthink, iterate and see the result in the engine as soon as possible.
speaker-0: Definitely. Yep. Definitely. Cosign that. Anyone that's not doing that should definitely do it. And it's more fun too. It's a it's a good way to not overthink. I'd I sometimes I go too fast. But I think that's better than stalling out and wasting time. You know, get there and then go, ⁓ and then make it better and better. And at least you're you have all your parts up. Yeah, so I definitely agree with that. Well, cool. Well, thank you very much. You know, for your time and ⁓ and sharing. I I loved hearing more about the behind the scenes and seeing this stuff. And I'm sure it's gonna help other people and inspire them 'cause yeah, it is a great project and it's just cool to see what could be achieved. So yeah, thank you.
speaker-1: And thank you too for the invitation and I was surprised when you texted me I said wow, rockstar of 3D! Call me!
speaker-0: You're the rock star. This is awesome.
speaker-1: No, ⁓ maybe maybe one day
speaker-0: Yeah, keep going. Do you already have your next project? Are you already working on your next personal project?
speaker-1: Yes, I have two projects. One of these will be in Unreal. It's too big, it's a full character and she has a lot of asymmetry elements. And also I wanted to make her detail ⁓ like a samurai project. And the second one is a stylized girl.
speaker-0: Great. Looking forward to seeing them. Looking forward to seeing them. Yeah, great. Well ⁓ yeah, so I'm gonna put a link obviously all like always in the description. If you guys want to take a look at this in full res, ⁓ please do. You can obviously follow Anna there too and ⁓ see her projects that are coming out. And yeah, and thank you again for your time, Anna, and thank you for everyone listening. That's it for this one. Peace out.
speaker-1: Thank you.
speaker-1: I use micropoly for all these smaller pieces. Allows me to change the base geometry without dynamics.
speaker-0: Anything special with the UVs or using UDIMs or anything or no? Dang. Now we see how you get some patterns on the neck. So I mean it looks more like a CG kind of like toy. Look at the difference and ⁓ so much more cinematic and like color and value of the lights. It's really cool to see.
speaker-1: This was the first shoot. you
speaker-0: Welcome to Pixel Peeps, the show where we take a deeper dive and closer look at some of today's best digital artwork along with the artists that create them. Today I'm speaking with Anna Smirnova, and we're gonna take a deeper dive in her project called Samurai. Anna is a talented character artist who's been working for several years in the industry. She's currently a senior 3D character artist at Sportspired Games. Anna was also one of my students in my online course at characterclass.com. So, this is the first time that I'm having a guest on that was also a student, and we're gonna be actually taking a deeper look at the project that she did during the course. I thought then, and I think now it's an incredible project. So please enjoy and let's learn some stuff from Anna Smirnova. Today we're talking about Samurai. So, like I was just telling you, I think, you know, it's an epic project. I told you when you completed it too, you know, I saw it. Inside the class, but excited to to get into the details here and share some of the process. Really like this one too with the cinematics and stuff. So, anyways, just super clean, holds up to extreme scrutiny. I think it's an awesome project that's rendered in Unreal Engine. So, yeah, in general, just an inspiring one. So excited to get into the details. Yeah. So, anyways, congrats. Some of the basic questions I like to get out of the way. So, maybe it's first is like why did you decide to choose this one? This project. What made you choose to do this one?
speaker-1: So I made this project on your class, like you said, and when I'm the concept, I follow your recommendation from the lessons. It's funny because one of the first QA sessions you said to choose another one. ⁓ really? Yeah. Because concept is kind of... a lot of blind spots and the design is not completed. ⁓ I chose this ⁓ girl in armor because I love the concept, it's really great and I love the details of... we're here. Yeah, yeah.
speaker-0: Is the concept here? That's right. Okay, okay. As soon as I see this, now I remember why I told you. I mean, this is crazy hard. I mean, look at this. I mean, wow. You ha you had to do a lot, so and you did. You know, good job. But yeah, you had to fill in a lot of blanks there.
speaker-1: Yeah, and I love the colors of the concept and idea. ⁓ Girl with a mask, kind of mystery girl. I wanted to create something with small repetitive parts and a lot of details. So this concept kind of works. I wanted to learn from you. So that's why I get the class and I wanted to improve my presentation skills. and the texture in general.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean the details are s sick. I mean just so great. Mission accomplished. ⁓ how long did it take? Did you do it within the eight weeks or did it take I think you did.
speaker-1: Yeah, I did it of the class time. It was eight or ten weeks Yeah, created this work on the class, but I working after my Full-time job. I don't know in hours I can say but it It was like I spent from two hours to 12 hours a day
speaker-0: Wow. I hope the weekends were the twelve hours. That's a lot. Yes. Yeah, I mean that's a lot crammed in. Like I tell people it's always more than you think. And then yeah, like you have a lot to model here. There's a lot going on. And so you did say the kind of software that you ⁓ used here looks like quite a bit, different things. ⁓ Marvelous Designer used.
speaker-1: I use Marvel designer. Yes, I use ZBrush for high poly and block out, Maya to low poly. Also, Marvel designer, I created the sleeves of her jacket. Fiber Shop, I use for the hair texture, And Unreal Engine for presentation, substance for texturing. And also, I use Xgen for making her. Lashes and... the lashes, okay. Yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah, wow, epic. And the dragon, you just did the whole dragon Z brush?
speaker-1: Yes, yes. The dragon was the most hardest part, I think. ⁓
speaker-0: Wow. Ha cool. Yeah, I mean it's like obviously very different than a character. It's like kind of an advanced prop and it's it's interesting how that happens sometimes. Hardest part it's like not really a focal point, but it's there. And if someone looks up there, that's what's so cool. It's like you're like, ⁓ dang, like it it holds up. You can see all the TLC that goes into that. I love the ornamentation here too on the visor.
speaker-1: The dragon was close to the face and the face is an interesting point of view so it should be good.
speaker-0: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, really cool. But yeah, so that that's actually one of my questions I like to ask is what was the hardest part? You see they think the dragon, not the face or the hair, must have been a challenge.
speaker-1: No, the dragon and her ornament on the helmet also. I spent more time on the sculpting on it. When I texture it, the hardest part was the ropes, yellow ropes. Oh, wow. On her arms, I mean? Oh, all over. These? No, no. Which one? Oh, right here. Close, yes, to the face. OK.
speaker-0: Wrists ⁓
speaker-1: I just spend more time on this ops maybe than on a face.
speaker-0: I kinda remember you asking about it, how to get the the weave looking right, and you can kind of see it kind of I guess moving with the UVs, but yeah, you don't really maybe you intentionally didn't do a big close up that has them, right? But it they they look fine. ⁓ here's one. Here's one. Yeah, here's kind of a close up, yeah.
speaker-1: Cheers. It might be shoot better but I can do it because I have limit of time and I'm trying to spend more time ⁓ on lightning and the texture of the film.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean I got some more questions about stuff, but maybe we can just go in and and and see some files while you chat about it. It'd be cool to see ⁓ like the high poly maybe, ⁓ if you have like where how it started and how it finished, that'd be really cool to see.
speaker-1: ⁓ I have a high poly detail file and also have lot of screenshots with VIP versions.
speaker-0: Let's ya. I'd love to see I love seeing the final Z brush files. And yeah, any work in progress. I love all those like that didn't make the cut and everything. Is this decimated or something? Do not have subdivisions on like the sleeves?
speaker-1: Yes, I have subdivisions and some parts I dismayed for sharing. ⁓ I said that I use dynamic subdivision for these parts. So it's preview. Make the scene lighter than this. I can show the screen first.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah the C reference. Heck yeah. Okay cool. So yeah, so this also has all your work your work in progress images, cool.
speaker-1: Yeah, this is a book out stage. It starts from here.
speaker-0: Yeah. You already have the head cooked in and everything too.
speaker-1: The head is just base mesh with small tweaks. I didn't work on it on the blockout stage. On the blockout, I tried to separate the mesh with the colors and materials. And for this work, tried to make blockout as detailed as I can. Because I have to design a lot of things by myself. And I tried to see...
speaker-0: Tweaks.
speaker-1: how it will be looks on the final version. The first steps, she looks more rounded, like this shape and this. And they try to make it stronger, like here. For the design, I used the reference of the real armor of Samurai, Samurai timer. And I'm trying to find more pictures I can. So... I watched YouTube video how people made this armor. I like this one. I tried to figure out what this quartz how it match to the metal parts. And also I watched YouTube video from museum. Oh, okay, good. And take screenshots like this. So I can say that the hardest part was to create the design itself. Yeah, I bet. Because I have armor, samurai armor reference, ⁓ but I should think about the shapes, the silhouettes, and how to make it works together. This is a progress screenshots.
speaker-0: That block out, it looks you know, you might think, ⁓ it's so far from being done, but like it's a good block out because it has all of the things accounted for, like those weave, the you know, the the shoulder pads are pretty complex. It feels like it feels like there's a lot of modeling going on, which is a good strong block out, but it feels like it's it was probably quite a bit of work to get here, no? Like how much time does it take you to do that? It's like a lot of modeling.
speaker-1: I I spent five days for two or four hours. But I tried to find how I should create these small pieces ⁓ as quickly as I can. So I spent time on it. And these details, like this yellow quartz, I sculpted with a clay build-up just to see how it looks. And also this ornament I use also clay build up and paint to make these details.
speaker-0: Cool, perfect. That way you get a sense of the character as quickly as possible and you can change shapes like you were cueing in on the shapes of the armor and trying to strengthen it before you get into the final modeling.
speaker-1: Yeah, and also I'm trying to kept it as low as possible and use a lot of dynamic subdivision, especially for the small pieces.
speaker-0: Yeah, so in the end all the little ropes all the little pieces of rope are are dynamic.
speaker-1: Yes, yes. Here it's just clay build up. But the final version, it's dynamic subdiv. Yeah, can tell how I made it. Yeah, cool. So I have a few types of these cords, like the smaller, longer, this one, some parts with this ⁓ curved shape.
speaker-0: Okay.
speaker-1: It's just to close this hole. Good. I made it by myself. It plays it here.
speaker-0: ⁓ you made little brushes. Okay, great.
speaker-1: Yeah, this is a low ⁓ poly, but it looks like this one. So I use micropoly for all of the smaller pieces.
speaker-0: ⁓ micro poly, okay.
speaker-1: Yes, when I started I tried to find a way how I should make it quicker and lighter. ⁓ So, micropoly is only preview, so it doesn't make my scene heavy and it allows me to change the base geometry, so without dynamic it looks like only polygons. And for the armor also follow these parts, it looks like.
speaker-0: ⁓ wow, okay. I don't use micropoly. So yeah, it's ⁓ they're like stand ins, but you can move them around.
speaker-1: It's a tool because I made with this high poly and also I made with this low poly parts ⁓
speaker-0: ⁓ so you can yeah, so you okay. So you can make like what you just showed us almost was like a a low poly.
speaker-1: I want to say that I made this high poly version. Okay. Yeah Yeah, and I didn't apply it in for bake. I just baked the one piece I easily can change the high poly piece on low poly version Like you can see this is high poly. Yeah, and I can change on low poly and applied it and use it like lopole. So it helps me to make changes and faster.
speaker-0: Really good for repeating elements it looks like.
speaker-1: Yeah, it's really great. But sometimes UV might be broken. But it's easy to fix in Maya with transfer attributes.
speaker-0: Yeah, super super clean. It's good to see ⁓ how you're you're faking it. You know, a a lot of times newer people will actually try and like weave everything and drive themselves crazy, but doing it just with the pieces to make it look like it's that's that's how you wanna do it for sure.
speaker-1: I use it for not only for the armor but the other smaller parts like this pattern. It's also dynamic. takes... ⁓ yeah. Yes. And it's easily way to make low poly for the smaller parts. I just can replace the low poly and it's already ready. So when I work on something like this...
speaker-0: Whoa. Wow using a lot.
speaker-1: I tried to start from the simple shapes and then I applied the dynamic subdivision. I divided it.
speaker-0: Dragons or how'd you get the dragon art? Did you make that or did you get it somewhere?
speaker-1: ⁓ This dragon I find alpha. I've been interested with dragon. yes, it's really great alpha. the first I thought maybe I just get this coin like this one. On the VIP version, it placed only coin. I made this dragon when I start texturing. ⁓ It's just... I experimented a lot actually with this part and the pattern of the clothes also, but it's on texture.
speaker-0: Yeah, the cloth looks really good too by the way. I don't know if you wanna jump there already, but if you're gonna say something, I don't mean to interrupt you, but just admiring your sleeves. They look awesome.
speaker-1: These sleeves I made for... it was very quickly actually. ⁓ I used for this Marvel's designer, I can show it.
speaker-0: Yeah, show show. So are you comfortable with Marvelous? How much have you used it?
speaker-1: Not too much, but I can make the simple garments and to make folds with pins and change fabric presets. ⁓ It's part also experimented, but these sleeves I made very quickly. I use pins a lot to get the right shapes. I wanted to make the sleeves bigger because... ⁓ Her armor is is kind of big shapes and I have to balance this with the sleeve is a clothes so For the color for for this I use beset fabric wood wool for me it's this presets is a control and draw folds so ⁓ When I saw it I just ⁓ you like them. Yes how I made it
speaker-0: You say drawful? Now, is this it could just be a different version, but like unless I'm mistaken, this all this doesn't look exactly like what I see in Z Brush now.
speaker-1: Because I changed it in the brush also. ⁓ tweaked the shapes and I changed it. I flip it because I like this sleeves on this hands. And also I use it for the right hands but made a few tweaks.
speaker-0: Yeah, that like that part right there that you moused over it looks nice. That that kind of bicep on the screen right area. Like is that what it looks like in Marvelous too, or did you do a s did you end up doing a lot of sculpting too to finesse it?
speaker-1: Yes, I used the sculpting also. I applied alphas and ⁓ applied texture with memory folds. And I tweaked the geometry, like I said, to create these shapes.
speaker-0: Yeah, it's great. It's great, great, great job. Nice. Yeah, very cool.
speaker-1: Yeah, and also when I work on the Marvelous Designer I try to keep the block out also here. For reference, yes. And to get these folds on her arm from these ropes I also applied it here and freeze it just to make fabric with the folds. ⁓
speaker-0: For reference. So it's interacting with it, right?
speaker-1: Yes, I have some intersection in ZBrush, but I will move for fixed.
speaker-0: Sure. Okay. So that's so you have those things in there for the simulation. So that it's it's tight right there.
speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. I use it also. Sometimes ⁓ I use it like a mesh, but as I remember, also add in Marvel's designer ropes like a garment. Okay.
speaker-0: Yeah, like fabric. ⁓
speaker-1: Yes, this is a vegetal garment. The other part of the clothes like ⁓ this body clothes and belt I sculpted in ZBrush with standard brush and clay build up also. This is a belt. First I start with Sculptus Pro, but then I remeasured it and project details.
speaker-0: Yeah, very cool. What about the face? How did you ⁓ end up detailing it or any th any was it pretty straightforward making it, or did have any ⁓ any surprises there? Harder than you thought, easier than you thought. 'Cause you had to make it up and I also love the style that I think it ended up with. I think it ended up being something unique and not too much of one thing and it's not super realistic, if you know what I mean. Like her eyes are a little bit more, you know. Exaggerated. So anyways, I I just think it came out nice and it'd be cool to hear your process and see the detailing.
speaker-1: Can I share it? So, for the head. I started working on the head when I already have texture in Substance Painter for the other part. Yes, first I tried to make similar look on the concept in ZBrush, but I always keep in mind that in ZBrush it's not the final version. You can see the real look of...
speaker-0: Interesting.
speaker-1: the face especially only in engine. Yeah. So I start from here. I use a lot of reference for it. First, I try to find something the real person, Asian girl. And also I find the good reference from the character. Yes. So on the concept she looks like she has a baby face. Yeah. Because
speaker-0: Like CG girls and stuff.
speaker-1: big lips, big eyes, small nose. I tried to make her in realism and I have to balance between anime style and realism. So I can say that I use this reference a lot and I was inspired by this one.
speaker-0: I can see a little bit of the DNA in in both of those in yours. That's cool.
speaker-1: Yeah, she looks so natural and they wanted to achieve this effect so I can... Vip version of face. It is the first iteration. ⁓ Yes, I tried to see how it looks.
speaker-0: Full screen, full screen, let's see. And this is path tracing in Unreal? This doesn't look too bad by the way for a first one. First version. That's not too bad. I'd be optimistic. I'd be like, all right, yeah, this is gonna be good. It's not like, ⁓ shit.
speaker-1: Yeah, she looks like a human, like a girl, but it doesn't look like on the concept. I wanted to be close to the concept also and I wanted to make her pretty. So this is first version and I work between ZBrush and engine to see changes and I try to make the quick tweaks and send it to Unreal to see this is the second one so this is small tricks the third
speaker-0: And what are you doing for the color? Is that just hand painting?
speaker-1: I want to say that I have six iterations to get this one, but actually I spent maybe eight hours on the face. So for the color I used, I started from base mesh, but then I transferred the head, V face, head. Yes, and also I texturing. XYZ? Yes, yes. I can open... When I created the first situation of the head, I made the quick texture from the face and maybe I changed the lips, color of the lips and this eye line. But the final texturing I was doing when I have the final version of the face. This one. She looks like Anna Taylor Joy. Yeah, yeah. And actually this almost
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: The final version I just tweak her eyes closer to the nose. I was afraid that I create 60 years old baby in armor. So I tried to make her more feminine.
speaker-0: Feminine. Nice. She reminds me of somebody else, so I just don't know who, but feels like it feels it maybe just feels like a person, but that's a good thing.
speaker-1: So I used a lot of reference for it and also the concept, the main idea of your face. In ZBrush I kept all changes in layers.
speaker-0: Way you could go back if you need to. And there's the eyes moving, yep.
speaker-1: Here I applied the texture detail. It's the face. And this is the final tweak for her face. And I use this mesh with a reference to see the right shapes. To make her more like a woman. I try to enhance her cheek bone because woman's face already has a lot of common shapes with the child and I have to think how to make her more young woman.
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, but like not too young. You're you're trying to make her a little bit older but also still stylized and attractive, right? Yeah, it's a fine line. And yeah, it's it's cool to see you working it out. Yeah, I think just a little bit more of the stuff that you did helped.
speaker-1: Also I create the block out of her hair
speaker-0: Yeah, smart. I used that to make the guides or later used it to do the hair card mesh and you followed it. You brought this into Maya or something?
speaker-1: Yes, I created this one and edited like a block out reference for the making hair cards. I can switch to the hair cards also.
speaker-0: U used G S curves tool or no? No. ⁓ you did? Okay.
speaker-1: Yes. ⁓ I made the texture in Fibershop. It's a simple texture. It looks like this one. also super simple. And then I used the ⁓ G-Secret tool for placing cards. This is really great instrument because you can control the curves and switch UVs and...
speaker-0: Very, very yeah, very cool to use because it's like it's just so much made for this job that you know, yeah. Really helps the process. And ⁓ yeah, it's cool to see I think just take note for people about card hair 'cause obviously you know, it's a challenge and it's time consuming and I think it's intimidating for people. And oftentimes when people are talking to me, obviously just mi do your best, you know, get in there and and ex and try stuff and through experience you're gonna get the gist but I think yours really illustrates because to me, hair cards is the culmination of of all the stuff. It's not like super great textures makes a great, you know, hair card mesh. It's it's everything together. And you know, the fact that you can show the hair card texture and it doesn't look like mind-blowing, it looks very achievable. Like, ⁓ this is just clean hair texture. And you see how much care goes into the placement, this is where the naturalism ⁓ comes across is the taking the time to layer these. These hair clumps making sure they're different and they're overlapping and there there's like personality in them and and yeah, just it shows like how important the ⁓ actual curation of the mesh. Cause I would say this is a relatively simple, you know, hair card project, but it comes out great, you know, it does exactly what it needs to do and it and it ⁓ doesn't look low quality at all, it looks very high quality and and you can see the parts that it's made out of.
speaker-1: ⁓ Yeah, but my hairstyle wasn't difficult. I have to create a ⁓ smaller part around her face. Yeah, you know... Yeah, and that's why because I choose this concept also. I don't want to make a hairstyle because it takes time. Yeah. Sometimes a lot. So I use... In this standard practice I use the full density texture card like a base and then apply mid texture cards and like flow ways to create more natural
speaker-0: My favorite part, the tiny ones.
speaker-1: Yeah, because on this stage you can see how it looks. It looks more prettier than the other stage. And also I create your eyelashes and brows with the cushion.
speaker-0: Yeah. So you're actually rendering those as curves in the engine, grooms.
speaker-1: Yes, I made it with Vizaggen because it's too easy to Vizaggen eyelashes and it's very quickly like you spend 15 minutes and it's ready for the picture. Yeah, and there is also my low poly.
speaker-0: And it looks awesome too. Yeah, ⁓ what was the final poly count? Never too much. Is it under five?
speaker-1: Too much? Like, eight- eight- eight- eight thousand.
speaker-0: Eight eight hundred thousand probably. So kids like Hellblade. I mean those ropes look crazy, dude. I mean that those ropes it's those ropes kidney. Look at the wireframe's just dense. Look at it just turns into blue
speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ If you're about this one...
speaker-0: No, they're ⁓ on her by her armpits, yeah.
speaker-1: I also created with Xgen, but I translated it to polygons and applied simple texture with fabric for it. And also this one. ⁓
speaker-0: Converted to strip. ⁓ wow, okay, yeah. This will get ya.
speaker-1: I don't want to make her low poly too much. ⁓ I try to create the awesome picture.
speaker-0: And you did. I d I know. So this is exactly what to do. And you can and and it's still real time, you know, it's like it's kind of sometimes people call it mid poly, but also, you know, some games are gonna are are gonna look like this, you know, in the not too distant future. It lasts a long time in your portfolio, looks awesome, like you say. And you can always reduce, you know. You can always go down, but it's yeah, it's just you'll make something awesome. And it's still real time. You can move the camera around and yeah, why why make it look ⁓ bad for no good reason? Yeah. I like it.
speaker-1: For the low poly I also use files from ZBrush. I get the first sub diff from ZBrush, Because when I'm working on low poly I'm also trying to ⁓ have a good topology to reuse it for ⁓ low poly.
speaker-0: Yeah. It'd be be cool to see well, maybe anything special with the UVs? Are you using UDIMs or anything or no? How many materials is it?
speaker-1: ⁓ Yes, I use Udims. ⁓ It was a lot. I was worried about that.
speaker-0: Now we see how you get some some patterns on the neck now. See Wow, okay.
speaker-1: Maybe it's too much. ⁓ Yes. Maybe, maybe.
speaker-0: Are these all four K? Okay, that's ⁓ Is there such thing as too much? I don't know, but it is a lot.
speaker-1: It's a lot. I want to create... Maybe more because here it plays... ⁓ A lot of stuff. I want to make the high resolution. ⁓ That's why it's too much. I can switch to the...
speaker-0: Five, six, twelve. Twelve, four cards, yeah. Yeah, the face, the hand Yeah. Yeah, well were you able to bake it all in one go or was it crashing and you had to do separate?
speaker-1: Yes, I have crashed. But I was surprised because I usually don't bake in substance. ⁓
speaker-0: But of course I have craft. You're a marmoset. Are you a marmoset person?
speaker-1: Because I started from this and on work also I use marmoset. ⁓ But I was surprised because substance really bake it but I have a lot of polygons here.
speaker-0: Yeah, and the Udemy is fast, right? I mean it's it's actually I love doing it now because I d I haven't even done twelve twelve four K Udems before. ⁓ and you're displaying it at four K too. I mean it's crazy. I mean you must have just a normal ish machine, right? Like a forty ninety or something.
speaker-1: No, it's a 46. But when I'm on this project, I was working on my laptop. When I created this project, my laptop works fine, but now I can't open
speaker-0: Okay. It'd still work fine. At the end, yeah. You got that now, yeah. That's a
speaker-1: I don't know why, so...
speaker-0: Probably a memory thing. I don't it could be a graphics card thing, but you know you know when you turn it you know when you're going for a long time and then you open it later too and you like turn off a layer and then you have to wait for the whole thing to load for it to like actually turn off and turn on. I think that's a memory thing 'cause I reach that limit too sometimes just with the amount of layers. But anyways, the fact that twelve four K Udems in one layer stack and you can just paint across them, it is great. It is you know, it it is cool.
speaker-1: For the optimization, actually I hide some UDs. And you can... Yes, it helps. And I change resolution, I just make it lower. For example, when I'm working on the face, I change other parts on 1K.
speaker-0: I feel that it's faster. And you can also isolate a UDIM tile, right? ⁓ each. Like you can you can click one and then hit the one so you're just working on it. It helps too, yeah. So it it is ⁓ lots of benefits if you're able to use U DIMs. And I think especially for personal projects, it's hard to not do that 'cause it's easier, yeah, and higher quality.
speaker-1: Yeah, that's why I choose Udimso. ⁓ So this is the texture. I can start from the face.
speaker-0: Yeah, sure. Maybe the face and then I had some questions about the patterns and stuff. But yeah, let's let's see how you set up the face.
speaker-1: So I start from the base color from V-phase texture.
speaker-0: Speaking up, there we go. See you turn off layers and you look it's loading. So I'm talking about
speaker-1: Yes, yes. So I start from here and then I applied some... I changed the color, made it lighter and removed this ⁓ blue spot here.
speaker-0: You mind you mind showing it ⁓ just the base color channel?
speaker-1: Yeah, and here with the lips I change color of lips following the concept she
speaker-0: ⁓ yeah.
speaker-1: Yes, lashes would be more. As you can see, I... Too much red make it the first time. So, this is the makeup. I applied with a... a folder. Yeah, there is too much blush. And actually this is the main point of your face. I applied the nose and the cheeks and the eyes also. Like in the real life.
speaker-0: ⁓ wow. Yeah.
speaker-1: girls do
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean I I was just thinking that. I was like maybe you've got some insider knowledge, like if you do makeup on yourself or anything like that, you probably know like where to put it and how much and stuff like that.
speaker-1: ⁓ For the project it's not so special, I just applied more blushes on the cheeks and the nose and a little on her eyes. ⁓
speaker-0: I I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have done the eyes. I d I I don't even think I would have done the nose. That's how dumb. I just would have put it on her cheeks, I guess.
speaker-1: ⁓ And sometimes ⁓ girls clean this face and make it more lighter, but I
speaker-0: I was thinking, w re did you just wanna maybe keep some of some of the age, some of the details so you didn't cover it up?
speaker-1: Yes, because without these blue spots she looks like a doll, not like a real person. And I edited makeup here. For this I used some simple tutorials and all the textures I saw how it looks on the different models.
speaker-0: Nice.
speaker-1: It's easy to find on Pinterest, so I think everyone can make it.
speaker-0: I mean and that's just something to note. Maybe we've talked with other character artists too when you're doing a character with makeup. There's a huge world of makeup tutorials out there because of actual people doing makeup. So yeah, you can find some really detailed like videos and explanations on how to ⁓ you can literally find a tutorial on how like how to do a a certain kind of cat eye or whatever, right? And you can you can follow it in a way in your texture.
speaker-1: what I do and also sometimes I use this guide to break up the face but here maybe I have maybe don't so I increase blue parts here mm-hmm and I line so this is the this is it this color and also I increase the roughness on her no
speaker-0: Nice and clean.
speaker-1: But you can see here is a darker.
speaker-0: Uhhuh. ⁓ okay, yeah, yeah. Because of the blush. So you had yeah, you have it you have it be more matte. Or no, you have it be more shiny actually. Mm-hmm. Okay.
speaker-1: Yes. I want to make it more shiny. Cool. So this is a face. And here's some cavity and the shadow, extra shadow on the nose. And more blush.
speaker-0: Okay, good. Yeah.
speaker-1: and shiny. Sometimes I use filter with unsaturation.
speaker-0: To check your values.
speaker-1: Yes, ⁓ but actually I also use it when I get pictures from Unreal to check the lights and the shadows.
speaker-0: ⁓ really? That's interesting. So you save out your textures black and white and set up lighting?
speaker-1: No, no. When I work in Unreal, I get the picture from here. And in Photoshop, I also unsaturate to see the volumes. And maybe there some spots when I have to add more shadow or maybe highlights. And also, I use it for the texturing, this filter.
speaker-0: ⁓ I wanted to ask about some of the tiling patterns. You have the neck, two ⁓ neck ones, you have the like kind of kimono, whatever. So are you finding these all of these tiling patterns? Are you finding them ⁓ online somewhere? Are you making any of them?
speaker-1: ⁓ First I create base, metal base layer material and applied it on all of parts of armor, instance a cross. It's here. It allows to apply the materials between your dims. And then I working on the other parts separately. because sometimes I want to have more control and paint my mask with by the hand so that's why I didn't use one material on the whole metal parts for example I opened base color because I want to show you color so I start from the dragon I want to say that I use a lot of reference for the texturing starting from the reference with armor and also use props, ⁓ to the models of props. And at that time, ⁓ on our station was Artblast with artworks from Wukong. When artist shares his base color map, like this one, when I saw it, I thought, it's really, really awesome.
speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, so good.
speaker-1: And I want to make something like that, but not too damaged. So I blended a lot of color spots and I tried to use contrast also. And I tried to break up ⁓ this armor parts with value. So this is more darker than this one.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: And also for the small armor pieces I also used different colors. Some of these have the same texture, the same UV. And in the end I applied a sharper filter. And sometimes I used also
speaker-0: Some are stacked. Okay, yeah.
speaker-1: ⁓ some filters to change the contrast of the color.
speaker-0: Doesn't look like it's on right now though. ⁓ you turned it off.
speaker-1: ⁓ I turn it off this one.
speaker-0: I see, I see, there you go. So now we can see what that did. This is the contrast now, right?
speaker-1: without sharper yes this without sharper so it looks like magic button
speaker-0: Yeah. Now what about the the patterns? There's so many different patterns on the clothing.
speaker-1: Yeah, for the clothes, I experimented a lot with the patterns because the concept is like color and that's all. This picture from... I want to show you some of the first iterations. It was like that one and I thought create...
speaker-0: Okay, so pretty subtle to start with. Yeah.
speaker-1: This pattern of her clothes not too visible how I made it the final version like this one. So it looks like this. I don't know how I should create her belt. So I start from here, it was blue also, but in the end I applied reddish. For the pattern I used this texture. This one actually. So it for the clothes.
speaker-0: You just found that?
speaker-1: Yes, I found it on Pinterest, but I tried with different patterns also. I think...
speaker-0: Looks like you outlined it or something too.
speaker-1: Yes, I maybe...
speaker-0: That came out great. Did you use a a mask outline for that or a anchor or anything?
speaker-1: I use anchors and mask. I applied this like a mask. great. Yes. And work with the echo points.
speaker-0: Just noticing the ⁓ chain mail again too, it's cause awesome.
speaker-1: ⁓ Yeah, I I baked it on the plane. It's just a normal
speaker-0: So you had it in the high poly and then you baked it? And then you used ⁓ color, like a color ID to pull the
speaker-1: Yes, yes. ⁓ alpha yes maybe I have it here yes yeah for for the chainmail I I baked it but this smaller parts I want to make it separate like in real life because there is a yes and this one I want to show you it's it's plain so some some of the parts I bake it on the plane because
speaker-0: Well Yeah.
speaker-1: It doesn't have the special shape like this one. And for the pattern of the belt and this shirt I use this picture also from Pinterest. ⁓ I use it like a mask. I don't know, there's too much. Yeah, this is a mask ⁓ with yellow color metal...
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Ha ha.
speaker-1: and roughness. And for these flowers I use concept. ⁓
speaker-0: ⁓ cool. You pulled up on the original? Nice. Fun. It's got some so it's got some actual piece of the original concept. Love that.
speaker-1: I try to blend colors a lot ⁓ even ⁓ if it doesn't see on the final picture from engine it makes texture more rich and for this I also use some picture from Pinterest yes I try not to use not ⁓ too much colors
speaker-0: Yeah, rich.
speaker-1: for this project and sometimes for the help I use ⁓ color palette. So this is about the patterns and for this ropes.
speaker-0: Now again these a lot of these are stacked. So you have ⁓ they're pretty big in the UVs, I would guess. Like they have a lot of pixels or no?
speaker-1: I think it's too much because I didn't optimize.
speaker-0: It looks like that's good, that's big. Yep. And what about the ones on the helmet? Those are the ones on the helmet?
speaker-1: Yeah. On the helmet? It's the same.
speaker-0: Okay, yeah. Yeah, those are pretty big. If those are four K textures, yeah, those are pretty big. That's good.
speaker-1: These ropes are placed around the face so it should be high resolution.
speaker-0: You did the gloves, you did you went all the way down the gloves, you didn't have hands though. Did you not spend too much time on the gloves? I hope not. You're probably like, ⁓ I'm probably not gonna see these.
speaker-1: I the hands and I made it when I have...
speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, she's holding Yeah, she's holding the mask. So you did the hands.
speaker-1: Yes. ⁓ When I started, I was worried that I have limit of time and I can make the hands in the mask, but I made it. ⁓ For the hands, I take hands from ⁓ metahuman. Yeah.
speaker-0: ⁓ okay, good. Her nails are cool too, I didn't notice, yeah. I think I kinda remember you ⁓ like maybe the plan was to like maybe the hand was a stretch goal or something and then
speaker-1: I ask you about should I do the hands and the mask and you say... Because limit of time and...
speaker-0: And hands are hard, I mean, yeah, you're doing the right thing. You you're you're doing what you know how to do and and yeah, that's good. It's generally good advice 'cause hands if you're like, ⁓ should I do a hand? If you can avoid it, no, but it it really adds to the project, obviously having it's great that it's in there, so I'm glad you pulled that off. And it's smart to use meta humans to get started.
speaker-1: I take metahuman hands and change UVs, make it bigger. ⁓ I use only hands.
speaker-0: Well, okay, so hold on, because I thought you would use metahuman hands because of the UVs because then you get the textures for free.
speaker-1: Yes, ⁓ but I changed the UVs, make resolution bigger, and then I transferred the base color and the other. And also I made the changes for the nail because
speaker-0: Yeah, you made longer nails, yeah, that's just nice. And they're separate or no? Or that's apology? Okay, cool. Nice. But you had to do the hands in its own substance project at the end.
speaker-1: It's a... Yes, it was. I can show it, but I think it's not interesting.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean it's cool to s it's just cool to see. And ⁓ what about the mask? Is that also ⁓ no, the mask is right there, yeah. Cool. Yeah so you knew you were gonna do the mask the whole time. You were gonna do a masked version, right? Like an alternate.
speaker-1: I a almost when I was finished. ⁓ When I posted here, I needed a mask and I created it and I spent I think one day to make it.
speaker-0: ⁓ wow, okay.
speaker-1: This is the hands.
speaker-0: Alright, there we go. You put a skin shader on there, you know, some lighting, it'll be good. Yes.
speaker-1: ⁓ And I use Metahuman's texture so it works perfectly.
speaker-0: Yeah, so maybe maybe ⁓ go ahead.
speaker-1: I try to save more time as I can
speaker-0: Yeah, some shortcuts. Yeah. I mean that's good. That's normal. That's what people do. ⁓ yeah, maybe we could maybe we could chat a little bit about the posing, like maybe the original idea if it's anything different than the ⁓ concept, maybe not. You obviously have a nice pose, you did a background and then ⁓ and then maybe how you posed it and then could finish up with how you did your unreal renders.
speaker-1: Yeah, so let me open the Unreal.
speaker-0: So it looks like you you posed it in Z brush using transpose master the old fashioned way, nice and carefully.
speaker-1: Yes, I use ZBrush for Pulse here and I use Transpulse Master for it. first of all, I made here in a T-pose or A-pose and then I post here. I want to create Pulse like on the concept. I think it was my second iteration of Pulse here because the first one was more boring than this.
speaker-0: So you did a whole session where you posed it and then ⁓ you didn't like it and then you did it again?
speaker-1: I create a pose and I watch how it looks in the engine and how it works with the camera. ⁓ So this is the first one. I think this is better.
speaker-0: Of course, yeah. A lot going on with the hand too.
speaker-1: Yeah, and she looks more alive here. I need to open the engine.
speaker-0: How much time did you spend on just the posing?
speaker-1: I two days, one day. It wasn't like I made the pose and so ⁓ I changed it. I think I spent the half of the all of the time ⁓ on her look-deaf and lighting and pose also I can say.
speaker-0: After you saw her. But longer th than I think people might think. And then posing too can be very 'cause it's not a you know, let's say ultra dynamic pose or whatever, but still like you have to carefully move things and mass things. It could be ⁓ Yeah, it could take longer than you think. ⁓ I love seeing the scene where it's all set up. Look at that.
speaker-1: I can open the difference in actually this is a main
speaker-0: I like this one 'cause you have like a photo backdrop, you know, it's fun. You have like a forest
speaker-1: Yes, I opened the first look in the engine. This was the first iteration of her pose. And I tried to find a more suitable angle like on the concept and I found it.
speaker-0: Cool. Now did you set up a light just for the eyes, for the eye highlight?
speaker-1: I can show the lights here and how I made it. First I edited some skylights here ⁓ with the blue cool atmosphere and the main light, ⁓ I wanted to highlight the dragon. This one to light from different angles. Lights for the background, it's different. And these small lights, actually are hard to see, but this one, tiny blue highlights, I try not to fake reflection from environment, like in the woods. And also this one, it's hard to see.
speaker-0: Nice room light.
speaker-1: ⁓ I tried to fake sunlight. It calls in the woods.
speaker-0: Great, great setup.
speaker-1: Actually, ⁓ when I working on the presentation and the texturing, I watched TV show Shogun. Yeah. And it's about medieval Japan. ⁓ And for the background, I use screenshots from this TV show. this is shot from the final episode, So this is background. when the when
speaker-0: Vale.
speaker-1: I applied it here on the plane. I love how it works. It works ⁓ really great. creates...
speaker-0: I mean look at the colors. Yeah I mean it has a vertical line. The colors are are like the shoulder pad, it's very cool.
speaker-1: Actually I was afraid working with green-blue environment and the lights because it's difficult color to give the emotion because green color it's tricky color it gives you the calm emotion and also the kind of dangerous atmosphere but it works here great and this highlights from the sun across her eyes and make some action line, an invisible line. And when I'm working on her pose, I also try to make this kind of guideline for the audience, like this one and this. also I try to break up the symmetry of the pose. ⁓ That's she angle of your head and the body and the rotation also I think it make ⁓ picture more artist
speaker-0: It's great. Yeah, more like a portrait, classical. And it has that feeling. It has a feeling of a classical portrait. Like someone like a like a professional photographer went somewhere and took it of her. It's cool.
speaker-1: I didn't use one shot of the serial I tried on the TV show I tried to use a lot and experimented with it so this is one of my experimentations actually I have more but I didn't save it ⁓ it will be funny to show and also this one I tried to use something with firelight background and I used it before ⁓
speaker-0: Look how dark the show gets though, huh? Isn't that crazy?
speaker-1: I use the screenshots like a reference for the light and also like a background. So it works perfectly. Also, I can open the different. I first created ⁓ this level with warm light, ⁓ but I can find the right background for her. For my experimentation, I created new levels to change the lights and the background. So here,
speaker-0: Yeah, see that.
speaker-1: with the fire lights and for the portraits this one I use this one
speaker-0: ⁓ yes. That's the one I'm looking at right now. Nice. This there it is.
speaker-1: When I posed her, I tried to find the right angle of her camera and this was the first shot.
speaker-0: You can really see a big difference. I mean, it looks more like a C G kind of like toy. Look at the difference and ⁓ ha so much more cinematic and like ⁓ again, more like a photographer, I think just the color and value of the lights. It's really cool to see the difference. Lighting makes.
speaker-1: She doesn't have the final texture also and a lot
speaker-0: Lashes. Okay. The lashes make a big difference too. Yeah.
speaker-1: Yes, when I saw it, I think it would be my preview shot for the project. And I like this camera shape, but it didn't fit for the final version. ⁓ it's kind of iteration of this shot also.
speaker-0: Uh-huh. Yeah, very cool to see. Yeah. And then ⁓ really small changes like a mounting, you know, obviously tip of the iceberg, that's so much work that went to get here, but just seeing yeah, the difference between the top and the bottom, I feel like it's ⁓ really, really strong and it's just lots of little things.
speaker-1: Yeah, it was hard to post it on the camera, like she looks through the camera on the audience.
speaker-0: Yeah. So you always had her it kinda looks like she's looking at us now, but it maybe not. And then you rendered it with path tracing.
speaker-1: Yes, ⁓ use move render for it.
speaker-0: Yeah, movie render queue. And then how how big are you saving it out and how long did the renders take per image, would you say?
speaker-1: 5 hours maybe for one... I guess. Maybe two. Maybe I just...
speaker-0: Five hours? ⁓ what do you say? Still, that's pretty pretty epic there. So you just cranked it up. It worked, it worked. Wow. I mean that's a straight up like, you know, offline render I it pass racing pretty much is offline rendering, but yeah. That's crazy.
speaker-1: I want to make details. Maybe it was less, I tried to compare with Arnold, but Arnold make one picture for today's. Yeah, Unreal Engine works really faster.
speaker-0: Arnold's slower for sure. Yeah, I mean it came out great and ⁓ you took the class and you don't have like a large portfolio now, but just ⁓ just looking at the final result and now talking to you, it just seems like there's a lot of expertise there. So yeah, I mean you're doing you're doing great and you're doing all the all you know, using all these tools and you know, hear the the thought, very meticulous, very, you know, detailed and ⁓ yeah, you it's like you're making stuff and not only that looks a certain way but The way you're making it is like someone who's a senior ⁓ artist, you know, so I just think you're you crushed it.
speaker-1: Thank you. I want to say that your feedback and feedback from Charit also make a lot of impact of this project and the lessons of the class. I think this project allows me to be an artist ⁓ and it works great.
speaker-0: Yeah, cool. Yeah, I mean, ⁓ really happy the outcome and and also the to hear you say that just makes me feel like, you know, I think you I mean it was a lot of work, obviously, but I'd like to think you had fun. ⁓ you know, you pick something that gave you a lot of freedom and you know, if you're not prepared for it or and again, that's why my general advice is like, Hey, hey, careful now. ⁓ this could be bad, right? But I think you took it and ran with it. Like you took a concept that you liked and it gave you enough creative freedom that you have to create some stuff. And ⁓ yeah, again, I mean just the outcome speaks for itself. And now it's it's much more of a collaboration that you got to, you know, do some design and costume stuff and the colors, you know, curating the portrait, the pose, the the the age of the girl. So much freedom, ⁓ room for you to kind of flex your muscles that you've obviously been just accruing over time. And maybe ⁓ this was like an outlet to pour it all into it. So I think it's just yeah, it's really, really great to see. Glad the opportunity lined up. ⁓ a couple questions just I like to end on just in case and so we can share with other people doing stuff. First one is just like was there a main thing when you think back on this project now, is there a singular or you know, the largest lesson let's say that you're gonna take with you that that sticks with you after this, that you that you feel like you you gained on this one, that you know you'll be, you know, feeling the effects of on your future projects?
speaker-1: to make a lot of experimentation and iteration. This is the main thing when you create a personal project especially. I guess this is most important part. work faster I think. When you ⁓ start on one of the lesson, do not over thinking. I think this is the main point when you create something.
speaker-0: No, I think that's great. And to that I would say, you know, for the class environment, we put a deadline 'cause it gives it's it it can be helpful to have a deadline. It could be a slippery slope if you don't. You know, some people can just you end up not finishing a project is kind of a discipline in itself. But I will say with personal projects, that is really a time for you to, you know, work and get something right, right? Quote unquote. So that you don't 'cause then sometimes in productions you have to sacrifice something. To be finished on time. But yeah, with a personal project, I would hate for that to be the case. I don't don't see any evidence of this here. I think it worked as intended, that it gave you some drive to, you know, like in like, ⁓ I'll I'll figure out how to make a hand really quick, things like that. That's fine. ⁓ but I wouldn't want to limit quality just for a message out there. I think it's finding a balance between taking so long you just drift off and go, this is too much. Or being too hard on yourself, you know. So, anyways, just general advice for anyone listening. If you're doing personal projects, I think setting a a a cushy deadline, but a deadline ⁓ or a soft deadline, just to give yourself something to point at, right? You need something to to spur on, but don't don't stop. You know, you wanna you wanna go as high quality as you can. You know, you don't wanna sell yourself short.
speaker-1: think this project looks like this because I have a limit of time and I focused on this project and tried to make it better and faster and that's why I have lot of iterations and experimentation.
speaker-0: On what matters too, like, you know, I think ⁓ and seeing your pose and everything. Yeah, you you came about you did it very smartly the way you did it. ⁓ anything surprise you when you think back on the project? Was there a main like main main thing you didn't expect ⁓ about the whole process or anything like that?
speaker-1: I want to say that the class helps me to fill my gaps. Which is important. ⁓ Which I was surprised how powerful instrument like micropoly.
speaker-0: Yeah, okay. Especially for your character. I mean, ⁓ I think you had to use that on I say. I I ⁓ I bet I bet I could use it on characters for other reasons, but this one, yeah, I think it was good for you to look into a solution because of the amount I mean, you just e in this frame, the amount of duplicate parts is a lot and then it and then it afforded you that that ability to swap to the low poly that you can make a separate one that was that's probably a big time saver and it and it let you ⁓ yeah, get that quality you wanted. I think that's a b that's a lesson too. Micropoly, every project.
speaker-1: ⁓ Now I use it everywhere. If I have repetitive parts, even two, I use micropoly. It saves me time in the next part when I will create low poly maybe.
speaker-0: Really? ⁓ ⁓ wow. ⁓ Yeah, cool. All right. If you had to do it all over again, is there anything you would do differently?
speaker-1: I'm really happy how it looks now. ⁓ maybe I changed the details of these ornaments because it's too close to the face. It looks fine, but it might be better. And the robes. These yellow robes, I really hate it.
speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, the ropes. Yeah, I remember ⁓ you weren't happy with it but and I I think you artfully avoided it in any close ups and it I don't think anyone notices.
speaker-1: Yeah, maybe because the dragon and the face and the hands with the mask also takes a lot of attention. this look like a pecan. Not interesting part of her. I love the composition of this because you when you saw in picture, you literally saw on your face, but then you can switch on the dragon. And with this
speaker-0: It's more of a background thing, yeah.
speaker-1: small pieces it's like guidelines guide you to the hands and then back on your armor and on again on the face yeah and i think this is the reason why it's work might be stronger and looks interesting and like artistic
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean I I think yeah that you hit the nail on the head there that's you know, the models are are well done, the textures are well done and everything. But that's kinda my main takeaway now after speaking with you, 'cause it's something that's like intuitive when you look at the image, you're like, this seems so pro, so experienced, right? But ⁓ honestly I think the way that you've balanced the details and the colors and the lights of everything, ⁓ I do think that's kind of the The main X factor for this, you know, in different hands, there's just a lot of things going on. And I think it's easy to overlook how that could go ⁓ like awry. That could be a problem. And ⁓ have having an image that's easy and appealing to look at when you have a lot going on is difficult and it and it comes down to a lot of the balancing. So it was cool to see your color schemes, but then the way you're making the lighting, not too much contrast. You have to balance all this stuff. I think you have an intuitive sense for it, or at least you're thoughtful about it. And ⁓ yeah, I think I think just that fact alone that you have that ability, I think is gonna is gonna be what elevates all of your work, you know, from here on out. Cause that's that is something. Like as you say, it's it's the artistic side of it. And you have to be able to jump back in a painter. You know, and and while you're doing ZBrush, you're conscious of like areas of rest or where things are too detailed and saying, like, well, let's not have, you know, pinching wrinkles here because of whatever. Like, there's a there's a overall balancing act that you have to do so that you can make something that the first impression is easy to understand and appealing to look at. And then as your eyes move around, you're like, wow, you know, everything holds up. ⁓ but it's a little bit lower contrast. It's a little bit Any anyways, not to go on and on, but ⁓ I really do think that might be your superpower. I mean I think I think it'll just make every project you do, you know, thinking of it like that, like an artist, right? And trying to balance that stuff will will lift it up.
speaker-1: Yes, I try to balance the big shapes of her armor with the smaller pieces and that makes the contrast of the whole project also.
speaker-0: Yeah, you can definitely see that. Okay, ⁓ here's here's one I like to ask people too. Is there any piece of advice you would give your earlier self?
speaker-1: I already said that it's about not overthinking. ⁓ Make it faster to move it to render. Render software, it's maybe, ⁓ it might be Unreal Engine or other, but it should be placed in Unreal Engine as faster as you can, as soon as you can. And the... iterate, iterate, iterate. It's the whole point. ⁓ But also, I use it a lot, but I think it's also neat to say that the posts make the character more interesting than the T-post. So I didn't make character in T-post for personal project for that reason, because it's looped for it. In general, it's
speaker-0: Absolutely, yeah.
speaker-1: Do not overthink, iterate and see the result in the engine as soon as possible.
speaker-0: Definitely. Yep. Definitely. Cosign that. Anyone that's not doing that should definitely do it. And it's more fun too. It's a it's a good way to not overthink. I'd I sometimes I go too fast. But I think that's better than stalling out and wasting time. You know, get there and then go, ⁓ and then make it better and better. And at least you're you have all your parts up. Yeah, so I definitely agree with that. Well, cool. Well, thank you very much. You know, for your time and ⁓ and sharing. I I loved hearing more about the behind the scenes and seeing this stuff. And I'm sure it's gonna help other people and inspire them 'cause yeah, it is a great project and it's just cool to see what could be achieved. So yeah, thank you.
speaker-1: And thank you too for the invitation and I was surprised when you texted me I said wow, rockstar of 3D! Call me!
speaker-0: You're the rock star. This is awesome.
speaker-1: No, ⁓ maybe maybe one day
speaker-0: Yeah, keep going. Do you already have your next project? Are you already working on your next personal project?
speaker-1: Yes, I have two projects. One of these will be in Unreal. It's too big, it's a full character and she has a lot of asymmetry elements. And also I wanted to make her detail ⁓ like a samurai project. And the second one is a stylized girl.
speaker-0: Great. Looking forward to seeing them. Looking forward to seeing them. Yeah, great. Well ⁓ yeah, so I'm gonna put a link obviously all like always in the description. If you guys want to take a look at this in full res, ⁓ please do. You can obviously follow Anna there too and ⁓ see her projects that are coming out. And yeah, and thank you again for your time, Anna, and thank you for everyone listening. That's it for this one. Peace out.
speaker-1: Thank you.
