1
00:00:02,450 --> 00:00:07,909
Hello and welcome to Pivot Points. This is the podcast about the pivotal moments that have shaped our academic,
2
00:00:07,910 --> 00:00:12,110
professional and personal lives and some clear your head of communications.
3
00:00:12,110 --> 00:00:17,030
It was in college and I'm all about creating ways for you to share your stories like this podcast.
4
00:00:18,330 --> 00:00:23,430
Today's guest is Mary Adeyemo, who is a fellow student here at Wolfson College.
5
00:00:23,910 --> 00:00:32,400
She very quickly secured a special place in my heart after recording this podcast together and after interviewing her for Plans and Prospects 2022.
6
00:00:33,570 --> 00:00:36,870
Now I want to ask Mary to think of three pivotal moments in her life.
7
00:00:37,260 --> 00:00:41,340
She chose to talk through the most challenging times with admirable grace.
8
00:00:42,180 --> 00:00:48,930
She's the recent winner of a Vice-Chancellor's Diversity Award, founder of her own business and all round force of motivation.
9
00:00:49,590 --> 00:00:54,270
If you're lucky enough to catch her on college, your day is sure to get a little bit brighter.
10
00:00:54,510 --> 00:00:57,690
Mary, over to you. Very much.
11
00:00:57,700 --> 00:01:02,069
Okay. I think the first thing is that, you know, whilst growing up,
12
00:01:02,070 --> 00:01:10,410
we already have like a perfect view of our life should be in our life years and then we know that people would die differently.
13
00:01:10,770 --> 00:01:17,069
We do not expect them to die as early as, you know, they die or even when they are even older.
14
00:01:17,070 --> 00:01:20,490
Not someone, them, you know, around us to eternity.
15
00:01:20,910 --> 00:01:29,639
And so whilst growing up, I'm from a Christian background and I'm probably someone with pre,
16
00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:35,010
you know, my family would do everything according to what the Bible sees like as it is written.
17
00:01:35,010 --> 00:01:39,000
So you you're going to be blessed if you do ABC.
18
00:01:39,450 --> 00:01:41,160
That was the orientation I had.
19
00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:49,530
And I remember that that night my brother died, I had prayed very well before going to bed, so I had double confidence in my sleep.
20
00:01:50,190 --> 00:01:54,060
But unfortunately. Twas the midnight.
21
00:01:55,010 --> 00:01:57,860
An event that never happened before happened.
22
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:05,120
And I just heard noises and people shouting and screaming like voices coming from because I like to sleep a lot.
23
00:02:06,380 --> 00:02:10,310
And then it happened that it turned out to be in my apartment.
24
00:02:10,310 --> 00:02:15,740
In our apartment. And, you know, Margene, I've been 15, 20 people.
25
00:02:15,740 --> 00:02:19,170
30 people that enables coming in. I like and I drew.
26
00:02:19,170 --> 00:02:24,590
I mean, is this a dream? And then, you know, that moment change it for me.
27
00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:29,120
But even before then, I still had the confidence that, no, this is probably a joke.
28
00:02:29,170 --> 00:02:31,570
You know, we will get well.
29
00:02:32,090 --> 00:02:42,320
I mean, never occurred to me that that could actually be the last time, you know, you ever stand on his feet to see, you know, my name is.
30
00:02:43,590 --> 00:02:49,260
And so it changed everything, not just for me, but for my family members,
31
00:02:49,260 --> 00:02:57,210
because I saw first time first and that young I lost someone close to me, not close to me, my lord.
32
00:02:57,660 --> 00:03:02,210
You know, within the circumference of my realities go.
33
00:03:02,430 --> 00:03:12,210
It looks like a joke. And it was even more painful because he had died because of a failure of the medical system in Nigeria.
34
00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:21,480
So it was push you will it was painful because it's something that could have been rectified or something that could have been managed but lost,
35
00:03:21,510 --> 00:03:24,600
you know, you know, led to the death of my brother.
36
00:03:24,610 --> 00:03:32,190
So that changed the definition of life for me, because you can wake up today and tomorrow you're gone.
37
00:03:32,550 --> 00:03:38,310
You can be alive today. So active and powerful. I remember we had even like an argument that night.
38
00:03:38,670 --> 00:03:41,820
And so sometimes I'm like, this is really a dream.
39
00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:47,400
You know, for the longest and even till now, it feels like maybe somewhere, you know.
40
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:55,440
So I didn't change. Like I said, it changed perspective of my life because I didn't automatically have to step
41
00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,910
into the shoes I wasn't prepared to step into or I wasn't even prepared for.
42
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,080
And the second born, the first girl of my family were like, if you born,
43
00:04:04,110 --> 00:04:08,580
if there's any responsibility in the African setting, automatically goes to the first woman.
44
00:04:08,820 --> 00:04:17,100
And he was the first he was the first born. And so I automatically step into shoes that were clearly bigger than my legs.
45
00:04:17,100 --> 00:04:21,300
And, you know, so that changed my perspective. It changed why reasoned.
46
00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,870
You changed how I thought about things, not just on myself.
47
00:04:24,870 --> 00:04:29,519
So I wasn't thinking a limb for myself. I said, I'm thinking for myself.
48
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,679
I need to get out of my junior ones.
49
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:42,900
I implication of my parents because it was a schoolboy, I should say he was you know, it was in my head was that I was just the chatterbox.
50
00:04:45,030 --> 00:04:52,740
And then so sometimes my parents just think about it and I feel like, oh, if you were to be here, maybe you could have done this, that that's all.
51
00:04:53,130 --> 00:04:59,280
I automatically took on responsibilities and I began to just do things that my parents were amazed that.
52
00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:02,280
Mm. And that actually brought my family closer.
53
00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:07,300
We were close, but it brought us closer, like. This is unbelievable.
54
00:05:07,930 --> 00:05:12,310
You know, so that actually changed the trajectory of my life, of my thinking.
55
00:05:12,550 --> 00:05:18,460
And even for my family. Yeah. And can I ask, what was the point of medical negligence that led to his death?
56
00:05:18,820 --> 00:05:27,820
So remember that we are taking him to our ospital and the doctor on duty had refused to attend to him initially saying,
57
00:05:27,820 --> 00:05:33,670
Oh, he wasn't on call, blah, blah, blah. And my mom, my dad's A.D. seen, you know, running around.
58
00:05:33,940 --> 00:05:37,060
And he came finally. And it was just very few points about it.
59
00:05:37,510 --> 00:05:42,500
And then he was like, it's passed. Like, everybody should go, like, not in an apple.
60
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,120
I mean, this is someone's son who's someone's brother.
61
00:05:46,150 --> 00:05:49,660
No ambushes, nothing. Like we see people die everyday.
62
00:05:49,660 --> 00:05:57,880
So it wasn't a big deal about his death, you know? So we felt like and I feel like if we had been attended to immediately we brought him in,
63
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:03,680
could have been, you know, situation might have been salvaged or might have been better controlled by.
64
00:06:03,970 --> 00:06:13,840
And what was the reason that you had to bring him in in the first place? So like I said, I woke up to the news and to the noise in my apartment.
65
00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:18,760
Garcia's room is just by my room, and I think it was convulsing.
66
00:06:18,910 --> 00:06:22,270
You know, in Africa, they bring you a lot of all mechanisms.
67
00:06:22,490 --> 00:06:26,319
Was funny in his mouth. I remember telling my parents to put hands in his mouth.
68
00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:32,080
So you see them, you know, they look clean together. So he was having, like, a fit, like a convulsions.
69
00:06:32,110 --> 00:06:42,249
Yeah. So. Well, any POW medical history in terms of maybe convulsing or anything like that.
70
00:06:42,250 --> 00:06:52,140
So it really changed a lot for us because this is someone that we all went to bed together to pre active, you know, vibrance.
71
00:06:52,420 --> 00:06:56,050
I mean it was quite an issue back, but like he was very active, vibrant.
72
00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:04,390
He was a risky, you know. So it was so confusing that I would slip happy and off sad.
73
00:07:04,430 --> 00:07:12,460
And I remember that that that night was a Sunday night in May, May 23rd, to be precise.
74
00:07:13,180 --> 00:07:18,909
And what I was planning to go to school for, and I think we had a test or something and a plan B,
75
00:07:18,910 --> 00:07:25,680
some of my friends were to meet and you see me the only soul that were coming back, you know, because his body did not.
76
00:07:25,810 --> 00:07:30,580
His body was too warm, like a normal person till six, 7 a.m.
77
00:07:31,180 --> 00:07:34,209
And so the doctor left was Nikki said, you're dead.
78
00:07:34,210 --> 00:07:37,890
Nothing, no life support, no checking, was just there.
79
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:45,250
And he left us and his body still felt warm, like we could still feel veins, you know?
80
00:07:46,330 --> 00:07:54,850
And I mean, that's that's a medical negligence, not just from General Hospital, but from the health sector generally in Nigeria.
81
00:07:54,850 --> 00:07:58,840
So this is not this is not a fake that I just happened to me.
82
00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:07,120
I know many people have been victims of similar realities and that's actually what support my interest in medical or like.
83
00:08:07,410 --> 00:08:08,770
Mhm. What do you mean.
84
00:08:09,250 --> 00:08:21,370
And my dad and my parents taking it all or you know the Nigerian point to do is so it's if it was meant to happen in happened there's nothing you can
85
00:08:21,370 --> 00:08:28,750
do about is afraid of God even if you go to cause you can't bring the dead back to life you know that kind of culture unwanted desire to navigate.
86
00:08:29,250 --> 00:08:34,360
Imagine people that don't even understand the basic rights that we have.
87
00:08:34,690 --> 00:08:42,370
And what I mean, I was in secondary schools or had this background, but what it took it was, Oh, it's normal and there's nothing we can do about it.
88
00:08:42,820 --> 00:08:46,570
And that's why I'm kind of, you know, interrogating and trying to fight back.
89
00:08:46,750 --> 00:08:51,489
So you didn't so that you could accept that. Yeah. Reasoning. We have to fight those kind of biases.
90
00:08:51,490 --> 00:08:54,820
Like more is made to Apple. No know wasn't meant to happen.
91
00:08:55,180 --> 00:09:00,010
It wasn't meant to happen. Rather like we could have changed the narrative if things were in place.
92
00:09:00,310 --> 00:09:04,840
If people where do you want it all to do and how they ought to have done it?
93
00:09:05,180 --> 00:09:10,000
Do you mean are they also have done it? We're not going to have those kind of realities seen or it's a fate.
94
00:09:10,300 --> 00:09:15,340
Oh, I mean, it is.
95
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:22,860
I think it was. It was man made my opinion wasn't it wasn't as a result of or time or anything.
96
00:09:22,900 --> 00:09:26,790
I think it was just man made, which is very. Painful.
97
00:09:26,850 --> 00:09:32,760
Yeah. And that experience then spurred you on to study medical law in Nigeria.
98
00:09:32,910 --> 00:09:35,970
So I decided at the back of my mind that whatever I do.
99
00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,700
Mm hmm. Medical law stands.
100
00:09:39,090 --> 00:09:48,870
And so when I got into university, the only available course on Moodle was in health law, which I, I mean I distinctions in both terms.
101
00:09:48,870 --> 00:09:55,860
I took the course and so were just kind of scratching the face, looking at it from a general point of view.
102
00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:04,299
And, you know, even when I started working as a lawyer, when cases of medical negligence come, I'm always like, I always jump.
103
00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:14,100
But it's usually one that involved a minor. Even when I was serving my first year and where I practise as a lawyer, as a full time lawyer.
104
00:10:14,110 --> 00:10:17,910
So it's something that has just always been at the back of my mind.
105
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:23,100
And especially because even lawyers in Nigeria look at it like it's an area we should concentrate on.
106
00:10:23,550 --> 00:10:28,140
You know, yeah. I mean, it's not it's not as interesting.
107
00:10:28,140 --> 00:10:31,830
But what's the economic implication for us?
108
00:10:31,830 --> 00:10:38,820
You know, because, again, it seem like you're fighting you're doing something on human rights and don't look at it beyond that scope,
109
00:10:39,180 --> 00:10:47,190
that now medical law as well. Even though it prompted my interest, the death of my brother prompted my interest in medical.
110
00:10:49,170 --> 00:10:53,930
Negligence. So even though my.
111
00:10:54,350 --> 00:11:00,020
Can I continue? Yeah, of course. Even though my. My brother's prompted my interest in medical law.
112
00:11:00,860 --> 00:11:02,989
Like it was a prompt. And now I see that.
113
00:11:02,990 --> 00:11:10,340
Oh, there's more to medical law, but it's not something that is really being advocated for even by senior lawyers or judges.
114
00:11:10,610 --> 00:11:17,000
We don't have medical tech law, but I have a lot of issues around medical law that's just beyond human rights and negligence.
115
00:11:17,210 --> 00:11:21,530
You have patents, you have access to vaccines and medicines.
116
00:11:21,530 --> 00:11:28,549
You know, you have it in international level, you have it in regional level, and then you have it in the local level.
117
00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:33,470
So it's I think there's a need for reincarnation of what medical law really is.
118
00:11:34,070 --> 00:11:39,200
Yeah. And do you think in in Nigeria, that kind of war that you come up against,
119
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:46,640
is that also partly to do with that bias that you felt that you were kind of battling against in the very beginning of people thinking,
120
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,050
you know, this is something that is you know, it's just meant to happen. It's God's will.
121
00:11:51,530 --> 00:11:56,360
Does that kind of infiltrate all the way through, or do you think that was just something that you dealt with at the very beginning?
122
00:11:56,510 --> 00:12:04,510
I think it's it's something that continues because people still think about it the way that it's meant to happen.
123
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,389
So in that kind of religious context, that even comes into the practise.
124
00:12:08,390 --> 00:12:16,910
Yeah. So even people that I educated, you actually find them, you know, taking up an action against a medical practitioner.
125
00:12:16,910 --> 00:12:22,790
And again, this is coupled with the fact that the judicial system takes time.
126
00:12:22,820 --> 00:12:27,260
It's demanding. You don't get justice. I mean, all of these things play.
127
00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:29,810
You know, there are factors that come to play.
128
00:12:29,810 --> 00:12:39,850
But essentially the point is that many Nigerians, the average Nigerian, is, you know, not interested in pursuing a cause like that.
129
00:12:39,860 --> 00:12:44,150
Just like, I mean, what why starts again anyway to take time. And I still don't get justice.
130
00:12:44,450 --> 00:12:47,510
So everybody just on see, let me bury the dead.
131
00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:52,370
Let me know. Just settle this internally and I'll be fine.
132
00:12:52,370 --> 00:12:56,689
Yeah. So that kind of leads me to your next pivot point as well,
133
00:12:56,690 --> 00:13:03,130
which was not making a first class at the at the Nigerian law school, even though you had three A's.
134
00:13:03,290 --> 00:13:07,400
Yeah, that sounds like quite a frustrating experience. Yeah. So.
135
00:13:09,290 --> 00:13:15,469
Like I said, everything is was like was momentum was is holistic.
136
00:13:15,470 --> 00:13:20,540
And whilst I was an undergrad in my in my undergraduate university,
137
00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:31,670
I remember that I had not started with I had not been the first in class or the second and the third or even the 10th in class until much later.
138
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:37,280
And I'm like, Oh, I'm on top of the class. How come, you know, I wasn't paying so much attention?
139
00:13:38,180 --> 00:13:42,200
And then because of that, I was in I was involved in a lot of things.
140
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,549
Like I was in the student representative council, I was in charge.
141
00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:52,220
I wasn't that I was in sports. I was everywhere I go, everywhere you look around, you just find me.
142
00:13:52,580 --> 00:13:57,260
And because for me, like I always tell people, impact is very big for me.
143
00:13:57,530 --> 00:14:01,760
Everyone can read, um, pass, but not everyone can make an impact.
144
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,600
You know what people? People mean? I'll say hello. Hi to you.
145
00:14:05,930 --> 00:14:11,030
But they look at you and use and apply your life principles to gas.
146
00:14:11,390 --> 00:14:16,820
So and that's you're making an impact. You may not be aware of it, but it's very essential for me.
147
00:14:16,820 --> 00:14:23,389
Like I said, I start I stopped thinking about myself when I wasn't feeling the big shoes of my elder brother.
148
00:14:23,390 --> 00:14:31,640
So for me, it wasn't just about me. The picture was about me, my siblings, my peer and my family, people around me, people in my community.
149
00:14:31,820 --> 00:14:39,080
What can I do to make things easier for me? You know, easier for the society, you know, easier for everyone.
150
00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,770
Let everyone feel ease, you know?
151
00:14:43,810 --> 00:14:47,550
So. The expectations were really high.
152
00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:54,930
I must see, because like I said, even at my graduations when people were like, I want the best for you so that someone else,
153
00:14:55,410 --> 00:14:59,880
is it possible for me to be doing all of that and then still be the best grades in student?
154
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,980
So the the let me say the pressure was really high.
155
00:15:05,130 --> 00:15:09,360
Do you think that you put the pressure on yourself or is that other people putting pressure on you?
156
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,460
Are people putting pressure on me and them like, I don't like to put pressure on myself.
157
00:15:14,710 --> 00:15:23,750
I don't I just do things as it come to me naturally, because the moment I start to struggle with it, I don't always achieve the populous.
158
00:15:24,180 --> 00:15:29,730
I mean, on the face of it, you look good. But internally you didn't do anything.
159
00:15:30,060 --> 00:15:35,280
And for me, I need to settle internally first before I start showing people this is what I can do.
160
00:15:35,290 --> 00:15:41,610
I'm not I'm not here to impress anyone. I'm just here to improve better on my yesterday.
161
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,410
So I'm not competing with anyone and competing with the mirror of yesterday.
162
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,720
Yeah. And, you know. Incrementally.
163
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:58,049
So at law school the pressures would high, of course, and it was even more in that news award.
164
00:15:58,050 --> 00:16:06,270
Interesting, because some of my classmates, one of my classmates from my undergrad school became the best writing students at law school.
165
00:16:06,930 --> 00:16:10,560
So the pressure, I mean, I felt good.
166
00:16:10,950 --> 00:16:22,890
But at the same time, you know, people are people started even mistaking and sort of sticky me for the person if he gets so.
167
00:16:23,870 --> 00:16:35,060
But it was it was it changed my perspective about life, especially because after that time I saw the Earth, I didn't make it first class.
168
00:16:35,150 --> 00:16:38,690
And in Nigerian laws going to Niger and also you graduated your last grade.
169
00:16:39,260 --> 00:16:46,160
So if you have all A's and one D, you go to the D, so you have all these and won't be one B-plus.
170
00:16:46,610 --> 00:16:59,900
You go with B-plus. So if you have all all A's, only one, if you feel competition at odds, also graduates with your least to least greed.
171
00:17:00,260 --> 00:17:03,830
So. Yeah, I did.
172
00:17:04,420 --> 00:17:05,700
You know, I tried my best.
173
00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:14,210
I tried to also be very active in law school because, again, I mean, we kind of remember the people that I'm in, first class or second class or par.
174
00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:16,700
I mean, I'm very second class all the time.
175
00:17:16,730 --> 00:17:23,090
A lot of people that middle class, because every year people come on board, new people come on board, new people come on board.
176
00:17:23,420 --> 00:17:29,510
But within your time there, some people remember you for what you did them for how you impacted them.
177
00:17:29,540 --> 00:17:38,510
For me, that was very important for me. Mm hmm. And, yeah, I mean, even do I feel like I could have achieved better if not for the grading system?
178
00:17:39,890 --> 00:17:46,880
I don't blame the grading system to give him what I deserved because at least people got A's and he got old.
179
00:17:47,030 --> 00:17:53,420
So there's no need to blame the system. There's just a need to work better and see how I can improve myself.
180
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:58,070
And like I said, I was scared that I wasn't going to get into my dream life and all of that.
181
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,680
But I even got I got into my dream law, had offers.
182
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,500
So it did it didn't change the trajectory of where we were trying to go.
183
00:18:05,780 --> 00:18:11,540
You didn't change the trajectory. But it helps me to understand, you know, how life can be.
184
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:16,080
Sometimes it can be hard sometimes to come down and sometimes you put all of your effort in.
185
00:18:16,110 --> 00:18:23,360
You still don't see come forth. And that's what life is about, is not just always going to go according to my plan,
186
00:18:23,690 --> 00:18:28,250
according to my effort, just it's going to go how it is going to go.
187
00:18:28,580 --> 00:18:34,250
But you just have to do what you have to do. Yeah. So you put in your best, do what you can do.
188
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,480
But then when things happen, you know, don't kill yourself.
189
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:47,180
Because I feel bad. I was going to. I think that's the first time I was gradually going to slip into depression because I was thinking of all that.
190
00:18:48,650 --> 00:18:53,270
Mm hmm. You know, it was like changing how you felt about yourself.
191
00:18:53,540 --> 00:18:57,019
Yeah, because I was. I was. I was. I won my results.
192
00:18:57,020 --> 00:19:00,050
Let me just see that my mom was always angry with me.
193
00:19:00,260 --> 00:19:04,940
I was Monique. She's like, God forbid, oh, I don't want to get in our lives.
194
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:10,430
You know, when she was angry that you didn't get the results, you know, that you were, like, moping.
195
00:19:10,460 --> 00:19:13,830
Yeah. She's like. She's like, people are.
196
00:19:14,090 --> 00:19:18,790
People will be kind of result. I have people I'm dying to have, and we are not the same.
197
00:19:19,610 --> 00:19:25,610
Our goals are as we know. Some people just want a drink, a drink, a glass of water.
198
00:19:25,610 --> 00:19:28,690
Some people want it. Well, I want it well, yeah.
199
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:34,430
You know and I can be compare myself is they all some people wanted a glass of water and didn't have a glass.
200
00:19:34,430 --> 00:19:40,790
It was Ashley Glass, all of them. But I wanted well, you know, if they wanted a glass of wine, only got a glass of water.
201
00:19:40,790 --> 00:19:43,850
Good for them. That's one thing. But I didn't get what I wanted.
202
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,960
Yeah. And so she just. I was going. So on the standards, that is what life is.
203
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:54,560
Yeah. And you have to be able to show people that even when you at your lowest, that is not the end of it.
204
00:19:55,070 --> 00:20:00,440
It's not. Game over is like the game is just about to stop for you because for some people is
205
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,820
game over the backseat what you want to achieve and then that's all they can rest.
206
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:14,720
But you you the game is just have to stop for you. So if you then say I'm not interested, you have lost, you know, you cannot get victory.
207
00:20:15,650 --> 00:20:18,710
Oh, yeah, very. In fact, out from the battle, you face it.
208
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:23,080
Oh, yeah. Weak, tired. We just keep moving.
209
00:20:23,090 --> 00:20:27,650
Well, like you're crawlin with a flying whether you are, you know.
210
00:20:28,690 --> 00:20:36,040
Whatever. Walk in. Just keep moving. It's not in the magnitude of of steps you take.
211
00:20:36,580 --> 00:20:43,719
It's in the consistency of the steps that you take. And I think that actually really sums up the theme of all of your pivot points, actually,
212
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:50,720
because something that really struck me when you sent those through is that these are three very hard hitting, difficult moments in your life.
213
00:20:50,740 --> 00:20:55,690
Yeah. But I also think from knowing you a little bit, from the conversations that we've had,
214
00:20:56,350 --> 00:21:04,020
your your attitude towards these particular moments and towards your life is very much one of strength.
215
00:21:04,030 --> 00:21:08,960
And, you know, you hit these difficult moments, but your perspective is still you know, you carry on.
216
00:21:08,980 --> 00:21:15,400
You do your best. You keep going. Yeah. And and where do you think that that strength comes from?
217
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,970
Because that almost seems intrinsic to you before any of these things really happened.
218
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,960
Yeah, I think for my parents, you know, I was shown with a friend yesterday that I,
219
00:21:23,470 --> 00:21:35,600
I saw my parents go from on that beneath the ground to the ground, then gradually on top of the ground and then maybe stay flying, you know.
220
00:21:35,620 --> 00:21:41,740
So I, I grew with my parents. So when people say, oh, whilst I was young, we have this car.
221
00:21:41,950 --> 00:21:49,010
I can't really it's just my story when people say, Oh, I used to be days when I travel.
222
00:21:49,030 --> 00:21:53,410
Like going to the mall was a big deal for me at some point in my life.
223
00:21:53,800 --> 00:22:03,570
So if my dad says we are going to the mall bus like, wow, we are going to the mall like me and my siblings are now talking about.
224
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:07,000
We are going to be excited. Yeah, we are going to an eatery. Mm hmm.
225
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:12,489
Like, for some people, that's a red flag for them. So when I tell people that, oh, that's not regular for me,
226
00:22:12,490 --> 00:22:17,740
they did not believe you because I don't wear that on my face like or I've never been to the cinemas before.
227
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:25,810
Oh, I've never. No. So. And my my parents have tried to teach me and my siblings.
228
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:32,799
What integrity is that? Even in your absence, the devil should be able to see me through to every other thing.
229
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,910
But she wouldn't do that. She will do every other thing, but she will never do that.
230
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:43,880
So and it's irrespective of the situation, irrespective of what is going on.
231
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:47,929
I remember that my at some point, I mean, my parents, like I say,
232
00:22:47,930 --> 00:22:55,940
the girl in front of me and I think they had some financial constraints and he had like some church money in his hand.
233
00:22:55,940 --> 00:23:01,370
He could have spent it for the meantime till, you know, because of course, we're going to get money at some point.
234
00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:08,509
But he did not. So all of us had to suffer. And so I we it's something that I enjoyed from whilst I was growing up.
235
00:23:08,510 --> 00:23:12,260
My parents, they communicate. The problem was this is a problem.
236
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:17,540
Yeah. You don't seem to have ideas. Well, this is a problem and this is what we are going to do.
237
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:24,650
So sometimes everybody would always eat. So they were going so fast because the problem is there's no food at all.
238
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:34,810
Right. So we we got used to understanding the problems and then we had to creatively come up with solutions.
239
00:23:35,620 --> 00:23:41,290
So even when our parents are trying to break the box on, you know, like the children are, we're like, no, no, no, we are together.
240
00:23:41,290 --> 00:23:46,210
And we understand. And even when they give us, we still come up with the money they give us.
241
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,770
Why do you spend money? We know that you don't have any of it. Yeah. So we kept it.
242
00:23:50,890 --> 00:23:54,880
Mm hmm. So it just naturally grew me, like.
243
00:23:55,210 --> 00:24:00,970
I mean, you have to fight. It's like if you see that you're from a wealthy family or you make a wealthy family.
244
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,490
Mm hmm. You have to be on either of the divide.
245
00:24:05,860 --> 00:24:16,990
He's also been. That's just fall from it. When I come wealthy, you know, opportunities are we can we can determine backgrounds.
246
00:24:17,420 --> 00:24:19,329
I mean the families are a come from the Kennedys.
247
00:24:19,330 --> 00:24:24,940
I mean the kind of language that we speak or we can determine how we want to respond to this reality.
248
00:24:25,570 --> 00:24:35,530
And so for me, whilst growing up, my parents have taught me how to respond to the realities and things that I do not quite agree with them on.
249
00:24:35,950 --> 00:24:44,980
I try to fight it like, no, no, no, no, don't. You know, I, I try to, you know, candidly, that's an opinion.
250
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:52,479
So that's I think that's that's what I was actually built me internally as sometimes even in the face of this thing,
251
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,760
it's not like I construct like, oh, I lost my brother. I'm the hero.
252
00:24:55,790 --> 00:24:59,780
No. I'm the. I'm not the hero then.
253
00:25:00,050 --> 00:25:05,780
I'm just. It's just an insight I begin to see. Oh, I've done this better, you know?
254
00:25:06,170 --> 00:25:10,580
Oh, I was money. My result old. I was crying. I feel like the war that ended.
255
00:25:10,910 --> 00:25:18,319
I feel like I disappointed a lot of people that looked up to me. But yeah, if I never did, never look up to me again.
256
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,490
So what? What else can I do? What more can I do?
257
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:28,889
You know. So. And when I see people that are in similar situations let me tell me about the end will be I
258
00:25:28,890 --> 00:25:34,140
feel lost school I'm like if you're law school you can always try your feel lost now but yeah,
259
00:25:34,290 --> 00:25:38,430
that's why it is an opportunity to take receipts you know, papers.
260
00:25:38,850 --> 00:25:44,130
They understand that reality. I'm not a Oh, you feel low school and you can never be a lawyer again.
261
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:49,050
Ever know they've provided room for that reality?
262
00:25:49,170 --> 00:25:52,410
He did not come. When you expect it, it's what you wanted it.
263
00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:59,069
But it's you, Castle. Get it? That's what matters. And then how did you feel when you didn't?
264
00:25:59,070 --> 00:26:05,430
When the Rhodes Scholarship for 2020? Let me say first that I was grateful that I made it to do.
265
00:26:05,610 --> 00:26:08,669
Should you just know as well that that's the third and final pivot point.
266
00:26:08,670 --> 00:26:13,530
Another very, very hard at the moment. Yeah actually just first that I'm.
267
00:26:15,130 --> 00:26:19,320
I felt very excited when I was shortlisted for the year.
268
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,170
So you're one of the top ten finalists for West Africa for 2020?
269
00:26:23,620 --> 00:26:28,900
The year before I checked, I checked with scholars around the world on this application.
270
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:31,980
For me, I don't have a place here. I don't even come close.
271
00:26:32,740 --> 00:26:40,000
And so the second year, so imposter syndrome came to me and my dad asked me like the last time, Oh, did you send me the application?
272
00:26:40,750 --> 00:26:45,940
I know I did not do the win, you know, roots columns.
273
00:26:46,060 --> 00:26:51,690
Yeah. I said I was like, okay, so see, I am not like that.
274
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:56,590
You know, I don't have an exceptional quality, my own opinion at the time.
275
00:26:57,250 --> 00:27:01,660
And they told me that's. Just apply a light.
276
00:27:01,820 --> 00:27:06,889
There's no point wasting my time. So you don't just apply. I remember, like I said, we did my final application.
277
00:27:06,890 --> 00:27:15,390
10 minutes of deadline. And so I locked my mind on anything because of course, like I said, after reading,
278
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:19,620
I was just I had this imposter syndrome that I don't I don't come close.
279
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:26,100
But to God's glory, I was shortlisted for The Different Round.
280
00:27:26,730 --> 00:27:31,500
The first long list, the email I got. I was on a bike in Nigeria called Okada.
281
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:40,740
I always tripped when I got the image. I read this guy's meetings, so made a mistake and I was so happy like I was longlisted.
282
00:27:40,740 --> 00:27:46,670
And that's I mean, that was the height of all this so big coming after, you know, I didn't make it.
283
00:27:46,670 --> 00:27:53,910
So I you make it first class from law school. It was so big for me that I wasn't long listed as one of like 300 people.
284
00:27:54,300 --> 00:27:57,480
It didn't matter to me. I'll still be thousands of people. That was not.
285
00:27:58,870 --> 00:28:11,410
And then gradually, you know, they sort of differentiate least and I'm ready to protect him and I will disguise the admitted mistake again, you know.
286
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:21,230
And, you know, at the time of the ovation, he said for the ten finalists, then I think maybe, maybe.
287
00:28:21,550 --> 00:28:25,540
And I said, I beat expectations, but expectations.
288
00:28:25,930 --> 00:28:29,319
And so when I didn't. Finally make it again.
289
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:38,799
I just feel like, oh, you know, and that yeah, I think I got into Cambridge without funding, you know, everything.
290
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,860
Just I feel like it's not for you, you know?
291
00:28:41,860 --> 00:28:44,979
Oxford is not for you. Cambridge is not for you.
292
00:28:44,980 --> 00:28:49,900
Can we just do the give you admission? You know, it's just the imposter syndrome.
293
00:28:49,900 --> 00:28:53,620
Then came in like, you know, I told you.
294
00:28:54,250 --> 00:29:02,340
I told you. I told you. And at that point, I just told myself that even if you be me ten years to keep on playing.
295
00:29:03,090 --> 00:29:06,300
Every year they recognised this skill gives a play.
296
00:29:06,330 --> 00:29:12,630
Yeah. And even if it takes ten games, only ten to do so [INAUDIBLE] just give up and I'll keep applying.
297
00:29:13,290 --> 00:29:15,810
And so I could. Michelle I've applied to this school.
298
00:29:16,140 --> 00:29:22,800
They didn't pick me and I'm like, up in there, they look at me like, No, you have not like I have been there.
299
00:29:24,020 --> 00:29:27,410
I am. And they don't.
300
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,730
They think I'm just making up the story. You know, I can show you my rejection emails.
301
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:37,070
Why do people think you're making up the story? Maybe I just sympathise with them and make them feel good.
302
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,790
I'm making you feel good. I'm just telling you what it is, you know?
303
00:29:41,270 --> 00:29:44,479
And I feel I see people come to visit me. I don't think you have problems.
304
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,980
You can almost. I know. I understand.
305
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:51,410
I've been there. Even now, I'm still there.
306
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,580
Because for every mountain, don't climb. Being there comes another.
307
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:02,720
Except you want to settle for less. So the height of your achievements is the least of unknown persons.
308
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:07,550
So if you want to keep progressing by the time you are done, so hit this targets.
309
00:30:07,580 --> 00:30:11,330
You don't sleep. You move on to another thing for as long as you're alive.
310
00:30:11,330 --> 00:30:18,230
They are always, you know, you don't need to be and still be to for the rest of my life, you know, tomorrow or next year,
311
00:30:18,260 --> 00:30:28,820
because it is so much to me is like food when you don't eating unsatisfied there comes on a down there that you have to satisfy.
312
00:30:30,170 --> 00:30:35,450
When you don't drink in water, you don't see or have drunk water to drink for the next two weeks.
313
00:30:36,170 --> 00:30:40,520
Tomorrow, in fact, in another 10 minutes, you can just feel thirsty.
314
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,220
That's why life is. Achievements like that. We are doing.
315
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,940
Oh. You slip away, Dusty?
316
00:30:49,610 --> 00:30:52,760
That's the way it is. And now how do you feel?
317
00:30:53,090 --> 00:30:58,130
How do you feel dealing with that reality now that you are here and in Oxford?
318
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,930
And I should also just say that I think imposter syndrome is a thing that really everybody does feel here.
319
00:31:04,850 --> 00:31:09,620
I think that it happens and it'll continue to happen again.
320
00:31:09,950 --> 00:31:13,430
Like, I came in here and I see when people, you know, introduce themselves.
321
00:31:14,740 --> 00:31:21,209
How did I make it into this room? You know? And then you begin to speak to people and realise.
322
00:31:21,210 --> 00:31:25,390
So they feel what you feel is what they feel. They feel inadequate.
323
00:31:25,390 --> 00:31:28,500
I'm like, Who? Whereas Yahoo. Yeah.
324
00:31:28,510 --> 00:31:31,630
So everybody is in the same space and the same bubble.
325
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,610
And so, in fact, when I came in and the first set of applications that I made,
326
00:31:36,610 --> 00:31:41,500
all I wanted to do this I to help you know actually it was sorry because that a lot of people in that.
327
00:31:44,190 --> 00:31:48,880
Only fact that I'm in Oxford doesn't take that away from me. Everybody's also in Oxford.
328
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:52,520
We are playing for the same thing. But like me, I got the first one.
329
00:31:52,530 --> 00:31:59,490
I just felt like. Come on. So now people say we are sorry and we regret and say, Oh, it's fine.
330
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,820
It's nice. Just give me a good opportunity to focus on other things.
331
00:32:03,870 --> 00:32:09,599
Yeah. So that's it for me? Yeah, I think it very much is like a pressure cooker for people.
332
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:15,060
Once you are actually in here, you know, it's like all of the pressure that you arrive here with, you hold onto that.
333
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,950
But then once you start speaking to each other, those walls break down a little bit.
334
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:26,520
And the pressure I guess the pressure is still there. Yeah, but I guess it makes it easier to know that everybody feels the same.
335
00:32:26,610 --> 00:32:31,860
Yeah, I think what Bina should add is what is called collaborative advantage.
336
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,560
That's the one thing that I've been able to use, and that is working for me.
337
00:32:37,710 --> 00:32:40,680
So it's collaboration over competition.
338
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:47,130
So when you guys are competing and looking at it from one perspective, I want to hear this, but when you guys are collaborative.
339
00:32:48,150 --> 00:32:49,770
I bring my ideas to table.
340
00:32:49,770 --> 00:32:59,250
You bring your ideas to the table, we will submergence and we are able to, you know, conquer what we would have done individually and get intention.
341
00:32:59,460 --> 00:33:02,690
We were able to bring attention to the table. We have 20. Hmm.
342
00:33:02,910 --> 00:33:07,380
So it's called collaborative advantage. But many people feel it's a competition.
343
00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:10,290
It's not a competition. Yeah, you are competing.
344
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:17,490
But it did get a compete and you're collaborating for the future because they are going to be in the University of Oxford forever as a student.
345
00:33:17,970 --> 00:33:23,850
There's a timeframe, there's a time limits, you know, for which you can be here for.
346
00:33:24,270 --> 00:33:29,909
So as much as you have a distinction from Oxford, I don't have a distinction in relationship.
347
00:33:29,910 --> 00:33:33,220
You don't have a distinction in experience. You don't have to be.
348
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,550
Well, the first time I went to the Black Matic effect.
349
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:44,430
I don't support those in that school of government. And I was you know, I entered the building and I was surprised like this.
350
00:33:44,860 --> 00:33:47,580
Lots of people in here. I've never seen this before.
351
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:53,610
You know, if I've never if I didn't go there, draw my University of Oxford, it's always, oh, this is beautiful.
352
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,360
Mr. Wellesley went off with concerns about it. Like, I didn't go there.
353
00:33:59,130 --> 00:34:01,440
You know, they look at me in a funny way.
354
00:34:02,250 --> 00:34:09,840
So wherever that we are in or whatever, whatever stage we're going through in life, we should understand that it's a matter of time.
355
00:34:10,260 --> 00:34:14,010
No matter how difficult today's days, it's we end as we all come.
356
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,480
It's not easy. Or because it's difficult to be found out, too.
357
00:34:18,630 --> 00:34:24,840
Mm hmm. And so that's the framework I have in my mind. No matter how prejudiced I am, this time we'll go.
358
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,490
And another time will come. So it's it's it's a it is a time for you.
359
00:34:29,550 --> 00:34:33,110
Mm hmm. And I love that idea as well of collaborating for the future.
360
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,740
And on that note, what do you feel is next for you on that note?
361
00:34:37,770 --> 00:34:41,970
I feel that I'm just very open minded to work with people.
362
00:34:42,450 --> 00:34:46,140
Like I said, I just just came back from the BBC.
363
00:34:46,650 --> 00:34:52,230
And because I'm teaching my system to teach on a course for the masses of public policy,
364
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,510
when I was coming here to have that a back of my mind that that was going to happen or was even going to be possible.
365
00:34:57,930 --> 00:35:04,740
So for the future, I just want to like I always see impacts impacting people is, is a big thing for me.
366
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,839
You know, when people tell me, oh, what you said helps me, you know what you said to me,
367
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:17,160
I was going to give up on this, but I decided to do it again, you know, and I ended well, you know, so.
368
00:35:18,350 --> 00:35:29,600
Next for me is to concentrate on my dphil so be open minded to absorb as much as possible like a form sponge soaking in as much as possible.
369
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:38,450
The pressure because the worst kind of prejudice, the pressure that you put on yourself because you just, you scholarly, you know, you will move in.
370
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,489
I just think you're dying. I mean, eventually die.
371
00:35:43,490 --> 00:35:47,990
So don't pressure yourself. Step out of that kind of difficult.
372
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:53,300
Well, step, step out of it. Discuss with people. For me, I joke about my problems.
373
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,910
Like, Oh, I took a maltese.
374
00:35:58,930 --> 00:36:02,090
Yeah. And someone says, oh, no, no, no, no, no. They laugh.
375
00:36:02,910 --> 00:36:06,930
And then we all laughed together and I said, We have to write. If you don't laugh, you cry.
376
00:36:06,940 --> 00:36:10,470
So. So I joke about my problems, and I'm not.
377
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:15,719
I tell people there's no point putting a political face to the University of Oxford.
378
00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:22,550
And so you do everything. And it's not possible for you to know everything that turns out to be foolish because you don't know.
379
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:27,240
And that's the only way you can learn. We were like to say something. Well, I don't know.
380
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:36,870
I I've just asked, you know, so this this I mean, you expected to be of a high intellectual standing,
381
00:36:37,290 --> 00:36:43,020
but not an all sufficient, you know, omnipotent intellectual.
382
00:36:43,860 --> 00:36:49,520
Mm hmm. That's and that's the point. So there's no pressure killing yourself.
383
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:53,850
You don't know? You ask. You don't know.
384
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,260
You find out, you know, and you never forget because you've been corrected.
385
00:36:59,230 --> 00:37:02,340
You know, so that's that's the one that is perfect.
386
00:37:02,470 --> 00:37:06,150
No, man that I know of or the lack thereof that is perfect.
387
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:16,000
Everyone, even presidents, go through the worst of it's even the most successful people are still bothered by their own success.
388
00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:23,200
So that's it for me. I think that's a really perfect piece of advice to end on.
389
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,730
Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
390
00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:29,320
Give.
00:00:02,450 --> 00:00:07,909
Hello and welcome to Pivot Points. This is the podcast about the pivotal moments that have shaped our academic,
2
00:00:07,910 --> 00:00:12,110
professional and personal lives and some clear your head of communications.
3
00:00:12,110 --> 00:00:17,030
It was in college and I'm all about creating ways for you to share your stories like this podcast.
4
00:00:18,330 --> 00:00:23,430
Today's guest is Mary Adeyemo, who is a fellow student here at Wolfson College.
5
00:00:23,910 --> 00:00:32,400
She very quickly secured a special place in my heart after recording this podcast together and after interviewing her for Plans and Prospects 2022.
6
00:00:33,570 --> 00:00:36,870
Now I want to ask Mary to think of three pivotal moments in her life.
7
00:00:37,260 --> 00:00:41,340
She chose to talk through the most challenging times with admirable grace.
8
00:00:42,180 --> 00:00:48,930
She's the recent winner of a Vice-Chancellor's Diversity Award, founder of her own business and all round force of motivation.
9
00:00:49,590 --> 00:00:54,270
If you're lucky enough to catch her on college, your day is sure to get a little bit brighter.
10
00:00:54,510 --> 00:00:57,690
Mary, over to you. Very much.
11
00:00:57,700 --> 00:01:02,069
Okay. I think the first thing is that, you know, whilst growing up,
12
00:01:02,070 --> 00:01:10,410
we already have like a perfect view of our life should be in our life years and then we know that people would die differently.
13
00:01:10,770 --> 00:01:17,069
We do not expect them to die as early as, you know, they die or even when they are even older.
14
00:01:17,070 --> 00:01:20,490
Not someone, them, you know, around us to eternity.
15
00:01:20,910 --> 00:01:29,639
And so whilst growing up, I'm from a Christian background and I'm probably someone with pre,
16
00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:35,010
you know, my family would do everything according to what the Bible sees like as it is written.
17
00:01:35,010 --> 00:01:39,000
So you you're going to be blessed if you do ABC.
18
00:01:39,450 --> 00:01:41,160
That was the orientation I had.
19
00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:49,530
And I remember that that night my brother died, I had prayed very well before going to bed, so I had double confidence in my sleep.
20
00:01:50,190 --> 00:01:54,060
But unfortunately. Twas the midnight.
21
00:01:55,010 --> 00:01:57,860
An event that never happened before happened.
22
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:05,120
And I just heard noises and people shouting and screaming like voices coming from because I like to sleep a lot.
23
00:02:06,380 --> 00:02:10,310
And then it happened that it turned out to be in my apartment.
24
00:02:10,310 --> 00:02:15,740
In our apartment. And, you know, Margene, I've been 15, 20 people.
25
00:02:15,740 --> 00:02:19,170
30 people that enables coming in. I like and I drew.
26
00:02:19,170 --> 00:02:24,590
I mean, is this a dream? And then, you know, that moment change it for me.
27
00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:29,120
But even before then, I still had the confidence that, no, this is probably a joke.
28
00:02:29,170 --> 00:02:31,570
You know, we will get well.
29
00:02:32,090 --> 00:02:42,320
I mean, never occurred to me that that could actually be the last time, you know, you ever stand on his feet to see, you know, my name is.
30
00:02:43,590 --> 00:02:49,260
And so it changed everything, not just for me, but for my family members,
31
00:02:49,260 --> 00:02:57,210
because I saw first time first and that young I lost someone close to me, not close to me, my lord.
32
00:02:57,660 --> 00:03:02,210
You know, within the circumference of my realities go.
33
00:03:02,430 --> 00:03:12,210
It looks like a joke. And it was even more painful because he had died because of a failure of the medical system in Nigeria.
34
00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:21,480
So it was push you will it was painful because it's something that could have been rectified or something that could have been managed but lost,
35
00:03:21,510 --> 00:03:24,600
you know, you know, led to the death of my brother.
36
00:03:24,610 --> 00:03:32,190
So that changed the definition of life for me, because you can wake up today and tomorrow you're gone.
37
00:03:32,550 --> 00:03:38,310
You can be alive today. So active and powerful. I remember we had even like an argument that night.
38
00:03:38,670 --> 00:03:41,820
And so sometimes I'm like, this is really a dream.
39
00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:47,400
You know, for the longest and even till now, it feels like maybe somewhere, you know.
40
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:55,440
So I didn't change. Like I said, it changed perspective of my life because I didn't automatically have to step
41
00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,910
into the shoes I wasn't prepared to step into or I wasn't even prepared for.
42
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,080
And the second born, the first girl of my family were like, if you born,
43
00:04:04,110 --> 00:04:08,580
if there's any responsibility in the African setting, automatically goes to the first woman.
44
00:04:08,820 --> 00:04:17,100
And he was the first he was the first born. And so I automatically step into shoes that were clearly bigger than my legs.
45
00:04:17,100 --> 00:04:21,300
And, you know, so that changed my perspective. It changed why reasoned.
46
00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,870
You changed how I thought about things, not just on myself.
47
00:04:24,870 --> 00:04:29,519
So I wasn't thinking a limb for myself. I said, I'm thinking for myself.
48
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,679
I need to get out of my junior ones.
49
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:42,900
I implication of my parents because it was a schoolboy, I should say he was you know, it was in my head was that I was just the chatterbox.
50
00:04:45,030 --> 00:04:52,740
And then so sometimes my parents just think about it and I feel like, oh, if you were to be here, maybe you could have done this, that that's all.
51
00:04:53,130 --> 00:04:59,280
I automatically took on responsibilities and I began to just do things that my parents were amazed that.
52
00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:02,280
Mm. And that actually brought my family closer.
53
00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:07,300
We were close, but it brought us closer, like. This is unbelievable.
54
00:05:07,930 --> 00:05:12,310
You know, so that actually changed the trajectory of my life, of my thinking.
55
00:05:12,550 --> 00:05:18,460
And even for my family. Yeah. And can I ask, what was the point of medical negligence that led to his death?
56
00:05:18,820 --> 00:05:27,820
So remember that we are taking him to our ospital and the doctor on duty had refused to attend to him initially saying,
57
00:05:27,820 --> 00:05:33,670
Oh, he wasn't on call, blah, blah, blah. And my mom, my dad's A.D. seen, you know, running around.
58
00:05:33,940 --> 00:05:37,060
And he came finally. And it was just very few points about it.
59
00:05:37,510 --> 00:05:42,500
And then he was like, it's passed. Like, everybody should go, like, not in an apple.
60
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,120
I mean, this is someone's son who's someone's brother.
61
00:05:46,150 --> 00:05:49,660
No ambushes, nothing. Like we see people die everyday.
62
00:05:49,660 --> 00:05:57,880
So it wasn't a big deal about his death, you know? So we felt like and I feel like if we had been attended to immediately we brought him in,
63
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:03,680
could have been, you know, situation might have been salvaged or might have been better controlled by.
64
00:06:03,970 --> 00:06:13,840
And what was the reason that you had to bring him in in the first place? So like I said, I woke up to the news and to the noise in my apartment.
65
00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:18,760
Garcia's room is just by my room, and I think it was convulsing.
66
00:06:18,910 --> 00:06:22,270
You know, in Africa, they bring you a lot of all mechanisms.
67
00:06:22,490 --> 00:06:26,319
Was funny in his mouth. I remember telling my parents to put hands in his mouth.
68
00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:32,080
So you see them, you know, they look clean together. So he was having, like, a fit, like a convulsions.
69
00:06:32,110 --> 00:06:42,249
Yeah. So. Well, any POW medical history in terms of maybe convulsing or anything like that.
70
00:06:42,250 --> 00:06:52,140
So it really changed a lot for us because this is someone that we all went to bed together to pre active, you know, vibrance.
71
00:06:52,420 --> 00:06:56,050
I mean it was quite an issue back, but like he was very active, vibrant.
72
00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:04,390
He was a risky, you know. So it was so confusing that I would slip happy and off sad.
73
00:07:04,430 --> 00:07:12,460
And I remember that that that night was a Sunday night in May, May 23rd, to be precise.
74
00:07:13,180 --> 00:07:18,909
And what I was planning to go to school for, and I think we had a test or something and a plan B,
75
00:07:18,910 --> 00:07:25,680
some of my friends were to meet and you see me the only soul that were coming back, you know, because his body did not.
76
00:07:25,810 --> 00:07:30,580
His body was too warm, like a normal person till six, 7 a.m.
77
00:07:31,180 --> 00:07:34,209
And so the doctor left was Nikki said, you're dead.
78
00:07:34,210 --> 00:07:37,890
Nothing, no life support, no checking, was just there.
79
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:45,250
And he left us and his body still felt warm, like we could still feel veins, you know?
80
00:07:46,330 --> 00:07:54,850
And I mean, that's that's a medical negligence, not just from General Hospital, but from the health sector generally in Nigeria.
81
00:07:54,850 --> 00:07:58,840
So this is not this is not a fake that I just happened to me.
82
00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:07,120
I know many people have been victims of similar realities and that's actually what support my interest in medical or like.
83
00:08:07,410 --> 00:08:08,770
Mhm. What do you mean.
84
00:08:09,250 --> 00:08:21,370
And my dad and my parents taking it all or you know the Nigerian point to do is so it's if it was meant to happen in happened there's nothing you can
85
00:08:21,370 --> 00:08:28,750
do about is afraid of God even if you go to cause you can't bring the dead back to life you know that kind of culture unwanted desire to navigate.
86
00:08:29,250 --> 00:08:34,360
Imagine people that don't even understand the basic rights that we have.
87
00:08:34,690 --> 00:08:42,370
And what I mean, I was in secondary schools or had this background, but what it took it was, Oh, it's normal and there's nothing we can do about it.
88
00:08:42,820 --> 00:08:46,570
And that's why I'm kind of, you know, interrogating and trying to fight back.
89
00:08:46,750 --> 00:08:51,489
So you didn't so that you could accept that. Yeah. Reasoning. We have to fight those kind of biases.
90
00:08:51,490 --> 00:08:54,820
Like more is made to Apple. No know wasn't meant to happen.
91
00:08:55,180 --> 00:09:00,010
It wasn't meant to happen. Rather like we could have changed the narrative if things were in place.
92
00:09:00,310 --> 00:09:04,840
If people where do you want it all to do and how they ought to have done it?
93
00:09:05,180 --> 00:09:10,000
Do you mean are they also have done it? We're not going to have those kind of realities seen or it's a fate.
94
00:09:10,300 --> 00:09:15,340
Oh, I mean, it is.
95
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:22,860
I think it was. It was man made my opinion wasn't it wasn't as a result of or time or anything.
96
00:09:22,900 --> 00:09:26,790
I think it was just man made, which is very. Painful.
97
00:09:26,850 --> 00:09:32,760
Yeah. And that experience then spurred you on to study medical law in Nigeria.
98
00:09:32,910 --> 00:09:35,970
So I decided at the back of my mind that whatever I do.
99
00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,700
Mm hmm. Medical law stands.
100
00:09:39,090 --> 00:09:48,870
And so when I got into university, the only available course on Moodle was in health law, which I, I mean I distinctions in both terms.
101
00:09:48,870 --> 00:09:55,860
I took the course and so were just kind of scratching the face, looking at it from a general point of view.
102
00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:04,299
And, you know, even when I started working as a lawyer, when cases of medical negligence come, I'm always like, I always jump.
103
00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:14,100
But it's usually one that involved a minor. Even when I was serving my first year and where I practise as a lawyer, as a full time lawyer.
104
00:10:14,110 --> 00:10:17,910
So it's something that has just always been at the back of my mind.
105
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:23,100
And especially because even lawyers in Nigeria look at it like it's an area we should concentrate on.
106
00:10:23,550 --> 00:10:28,140
You know, yeah. I mean, it's not it's not as interesting.
107
00:10:28,140 --> 00:10:31,830
But what's the economic implication for us?
108
00:10:31,830 --> 00:10:38,820
You know, because, again, it seem like you're fighting you're doing something on human rights and don't look at it beyond that scope,
109
00:10:39,180 --> 00:10:47,190
that now medical law as well. Even though it prompted my interest, the death of my brother prompted my interest in medical.
110
00:10:49,170 --> 00:10:53,930
Negligence. So even though my.
111
00:10:54,350 --> 00:11:00,020
Can I continue? Yeah, of course. Even though my. My brother's prompted my interest in medical law.
112
00:11:00,860 --> 00:11:02,989
Like it was a prompt. And now I see that.
113
00:11:02,990 --> 00:11:10,340
Oh, there's more to medical law, but it's not something that is really being advocated for even by senior lawyers or judges.
114
00:11:10,610 --> 00:11:17,000
We don't have medical tech law, but I have a lot of issues around medical law that's just beyond human rights and negligence.
115
00:11:17,210 --> 00:11:21,530
You have patents, you have access to vaccines and medicines.
116
00:11:21,530 --> 00:11:28,549
You know, you have it in international level, you have it in regional level, and then you have it in the local level.
117
00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:33,470
So it's I think there's a need for reincarnation of what medical law really is.
118
00:11:34,070 --> 00:11:39,200
Yeah. And do you think in in Nigeria, that kind of war that you come up against,
119
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:46,640
is that also partly to do with that bias that you felt that you were kind of battling against in the very beginning of people thinking,
120
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,050
you know, this is something that is you know, it's just meant to happen. It's God's will.
121
00:11:51,530 --> 00:11:56,360
Does that kind of infiltrate all the way through, or do you think that was just something that you dealt with at the very beginning?
122
00:11:56,510 --> 00:12:04,510
I think it's it's something that continues because people still think about it the way that it's meant to happen.
123
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,389
So in that kind of religious context, that even comes into the practise.
124
00:12:08,390 --> 00:12:16,910
Yeah. So even people that I educated, you actually find them, you know, taking up an action against a medical practitioner.
125
00:12:16,910 --> 00:12:22,790
And again, this is coupled with the fact that the judicial system takes time.
126
00:12:22,820 --> 00:12:27,260
It's demanding. You don't get justice. I mean, all of these things play.
127
00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:29,810
You know, there are factors that come to play.
128
00:12:29,810 --> 00:12:39,850
But essentially the point is that many Nigerians, the average Nigerian, is, you know, not interested in pursuing a cause like that.
129
00:12:39,860 --> 00:12:44,150
Just like, I mean, what why starts again anyway to take time. And I still don't get justice.
130
00:12:44,450 --> 00:12:47,510
So everybody just on see, let me bury the dead.
131
00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:52,370
Let me know. Just settle this internally and I'll be fine.
132
00:12:52,370 --> 00:12:56,689
Yeah. So that kind of leads me to your next pivot point as well,
133
00:12:56,690 --> 00:13:03,130
which was not making a first class at the at the Nigerian law school, even though you had three A's.
134
00:13:03,290 --> 00:13:07,400
Yeah, that sounds like quite a frustrating experience. Yeah. So.
135
00:13:09,290 --> 00:13:15,469
Like I said, everything is was like was momentum was is holistic.
136
00:13:15,470 --> 00:13:20,540
And whilst I was an undergrad in my in my undergraduate university,
137
00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:31,670
I remember that I had not started with I had not been the first in class or the second and the third or even the 10th in class until much later.
138
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:37,280
And I'm like, Oh, I'm on top of the class. How come, you know, I wasn't paying so much attention?
139
00:13:38,180 --> 00:13:42,200
And then because of that, I was in I was involved in a lot of things.
140
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,549
Like I was in the student representative council, I was in charge.
141
00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:52,220
I wasn't that I was in sports. I was everywhere I go, everywhere you look around, you just find me.
142
00:13:52,580 --> 00:13:57,260
And because for me, like I always tell people, impact is very big for me.
143
00:13:57,530 --> 00:14:01,760
Everyone can read, um, pass, but not everyone can make an impact.
144
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,600
You know what people? People mean? I'll say hello. Hi to you.
145
00:14:05,930 --> 00:14:11,030
But they look at you and use and apply your life principles to gas.
146
00:14:11,390 --> 00:14:16,820
So and that's you're making an impact. You may not be aware of it, but it's very essential for me.
147
00:14:16,820 --> 00:14:23,389
Like I said, I start I stopped thinking about myself when I wasn't feeling the big shoes of my elder brother.
148
00:14:23,390 --> 00:14:31,640
So for me, it wasn't just about me. The picture was about me, my siblings, my peer and my family, people around me, people in my community.
149
00:14:31,820 --> 00:14:39,080
What can I do to make things easier for me? You know, easier for the society, you know, easier for everyone.
150
00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,770
Let everyone feel ease, you know?
151
00:14:43,810 --> 00:14:47,550
So. The expectations were really high.
152
00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:54,930
I must see, because like I said, even at my graduations when people were like, I want the best for you so that someone else,
153
00:14:55,410 --> 00:14:59,880
is it possible for me to be doing all of that and then still be the best grades in student?
154
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,980
So the the let me say the pressure was really high.
155
00:15:05,130 --> 00:15:09,360
Do you think that you put the pressure on yourself or is that other people putting pressure on you?
156
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,460
Are people putting pressure on me and them like, I don't like to put pressure on myself.
157
00:15:14,710 --> 00:15:23,750
I don't I just do things as it come to me naturally, because the moment I start to struggle with it, I don't always achieve the populous.
158
00:15:24,180 --> 00:15:29,730
I mean, on the face of it, you look good. But internally you didn't do anything.
159
00:15:30,060 --> 00:15:35,280
And for me, I need to settle internally first before I start showing people this is what I can do.
160
00:15:35,290 --> 00:15:41,610
I'm not I'm not here to impress anyone. I'm just here to improve better on my yesterday.
161
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,410
So I'm not competing with anyone and competing with the mirror of yesterday.
162
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,720
Yeah. And, you know. Incrementally.
163
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:58,049
So at law school the pressures would high, of course, and it was even more in that news award.
164
00:15:58,050 --> 00:16:06,270
Interesting, because some of my classmates, one of my classmates from my undergrad school became the best writing students at law school.
165
00:16:06,930 --> 00:16:10,560
So the pressure, I mean, I felt good.
166
00:16:10,950 --> 00:16:22,890
But at the same time, you know, people are people started even mistaking and sort of sticky me for the person if he gets so.
167
00:16:23,870 --> 00:16:35,060
But it was it was it changed my perspective about life, especially because after that time I saw the Earth, I didn't make it first class.
168
00:16:35,150 --> 00:16:38,690
And in Nigerian laws going to Niger and also you graduated your last grade.
169
00:16:39,260 --> 00:16:46,160
So if you have all A's and one D, you go to the D, so you have all these and won't be one B-plus.
170
00:16:46,610 --> 00:16:59,900
You go with B-plus. So if you have all all A's, only one, if you feel competition at odds, also graduates with your least to least greed.
171
00:17:00,260 --> 00:17:03,830
So. Yeah, I did.
172
00:17:04,420 --> 00:17:05,700
You know, I tried my best.
173
00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:14,210
I tried to also be very active in law school because, again, I mean, we kind of remember the people that I'm in, first class or second class or par.
174
00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:16,700
I mean, I'm very second class all the time.
175
00:17:16,730 --> 00:17:23,090
A lot of people that middle class, because every year people come on board, new people come on board, new people come on board.
176
00:17:23,420 --> 00:17:29,510
But within your time there, some people remember you for what you did them for how you impacted them.
177
00:17:29,540 --> 00:17:38,510
For me, that was very important for me. Mm hmm. And, yeah, I mean, even do I feel like I could have achieved better if not for the grading system?
178
00:17:39,890 --> 00:17:46,880
I don't blame the grading system to give him what I deserved because at least people got A's and he got old.
179
00:17:47,030 --> 00:17:53,420
So there's no need to blame the system. There's just a need to work better and see how I can improve myself.
180
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:58,070
And like I said, I was scared that I wasn't going to get into my dream life and all of that.
181
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,680
But I even got I got into my dream law, had offers.
182
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,500
So it did it didn't change the trajectory of where we were trying to go.
183
00:18:05,780 --> 00:18:11,540
You didn't change the trajectory. But it helps me to understand, you know, how life can be.
184
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:16,080
Sometimes it can be hard sometimes to come down and sometimes you put all of your effort in.
185
00:18:16,110 --> 00:18:23,360
You still don't see come forth. And that's what life is about, is not just always going to go according to my plan,
186
00:18:23,690 --> 00:18:28,250
according to my effort, just it's going to go how it is going to go.
187
00:18:28,580 --> 00:18:34,250
But you just have to do what you have to do. Yeah. So you put in your best, do what you can do.
188
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,480
But then when things happen, you know, don't kill yourself.
189
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:47,180
Because I feel bad. I was going to. I think that's the first time I was gradually going to slip into depression because I was thinking of all that.
190
00:18:48,650 --> 00:18:53,270
Mm hmm. You know, it was like changing how you felt about yourself.
191
00:18:53,540 --> 00:18:57,019
Yeah, because I was. I was. I was. I won my results.
192
00:18:57,020 --> 00:19:00,050
Let me just see that my mom was always angry with me.
193
00:19:00,260 --> 00:19:04,940
I was Monique. She's like, God forbid, oh, I don't want to get in our lives.
194
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:10,430
You know, when she was angry that you didn't get the results, you know, that you were, like, moping.
195
00:19:10,460 --> 00:19:13,830
Yeah. She's like. She's like, people are.
196
00:19:14,090 --> 00:19:18,790
People will be kind of result. I have people I'm dying to have, and we are not the same.
197
00:19:19,610 --> 00:19:25,610
Our goals are as we know. Some people just want a drink, a drink, a glass of water.
198
00:19:25,610 --> 00:19:28,690
Some people want it. Well, I want it well, yeah.
199
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:34,430
You know and I can be compare myself is they all some people wanted a glass of water and didn't have a glass.
200
00:19:34,430 --> 00:19:40,790
It was Ashley Glass, all of them. But I wanted well, you know, if they wanted a glass of wine, only got a glass of water.
201
00:19:40,790 --> 00:19:43,850
Good for them. That's one thing. But I didn't get what I wanted.
202
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,960
Yeah. And so she just. I was going. So on the standards, that is what life is.
203
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:54,560
Yeah. And you have to be able to show people that even when you at your lowest, that is not the end of it.
204
00:19:55,070 --> 00:20:00,440
It's not. Game over is like the game is just about to stop for you because for some people is
205
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,820
game over the backseat what you want to achieve and then that's all they can rest.
206
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:14,720
But you you the game is just have to stop for you. So if you then say I'm not interested, you have lost, you know, you cannot get victory.
207
00:20:15,650 --> 00:20:18,710
Oh, yeah, very. In fact, out from the battle, you face it.
208
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:23,080
Oh, yeah. Weak, tired. We just keep moving.
209
00:20:23,090 --> 00:20:27,650
Well, like you're crawlin with a flying whether you are, you know.
210
00:20:28,690 --> 00:20:36,040
Whatever. Walk in. Just keep moving. It's not in the magnitude of of steps you take.
211
00:20:36,580 --> 00:20:43,719
It's in the consistency of the steps that you take. And I think that actually really sums up the theme of all of your pivot points, actually,
212
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:50,720
because something that really struck me when you sent those through is that these are three very hard hitting, difficult moments in your life.
213
00:20:50,740 --> 00:20:55,690
Yeah. But I also think from knowing you a little bit, from the conversations that we've had,
214
00:20:56,350 --> 00:21:04,020
your your attitude towards these particular moments and towards your life is very much one of strength.
215
00:21:04,030 --> 00:21:08,960
And, you know, you hit these difficult moments, but your perspective is still you know, you carry on.
216
00:21:08,980 --> 00:21:15,400
You do your best. You keep going. Yeah. And and where do you think that that strength comes from?
217
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,970
Because that almost seems intrinsic to you before any of these things really happened.
218
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,960
Yeah, I think for my parents, you know, I was shown with a friend yesterday that I,
219
00:21:23,470 --> 00:21:35,600
I saw my parents go from on that beneath the ground to the ground, then gradually on top of the ground and then maybe stay flying, you know.
220
00:21:35,620 --> 00:21:41,740
So I, I grew with my parents. So when people say, oh, whilst I was young, we have this car.
221
00:21:41,950 --> 00:21:49,010
I can't really it's just my story when people say, Oh, I used to be days when I travel.
222
00:21:49,030 --> 00:21:53,410
Like going to the mall was a big deal for me at some point in my life.
223
00:21:53,800 --> 00:22:03,570
So if my dad says we are going to the mall bus like, wow, we are going to the mall like me and my siblings are now talking about.
224
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:07,000
We are going to be excited. Yeah, we are going to an eatery. Mm hmm.
225
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:12,489
Like, for some people, that's a red flag for them. So when I tell people that, oh, that's not regular for me,
226
00:22:12,490 --> 00:22:17,740
they did not believe you because I don't wear that on my face like or I've never been to the cinemas before.
227
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:25,810
Oh, I've never. No. So. And my my parents have tried to teach me and my siblings.
228
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:32,799
What integrity is that? Even in your absence, the devil should be able to see me through to every other thing.
229
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,910
But she wouldn't do that. She will do every other thing, but she will never do that.
230
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:43,880
So and it's irrespective of the situation, irrespective of what is going on.
231
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:47,929
I remember that my at some point, I mean, my parents, like I say,
232
00:22:47,930 --> 00:22:55,940
the girl in front of me and I think they had some financial constraints and he had like some church money in his hand.
233
00:22:55,940 --> 00:23:01,370
He could have spent it for the meantime till, you know, because of course, we're going to get money at some point.
234
00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:08,509
But he did not. So all of us had to suffer. And so I we it's something that I enjoyed from whilst I was growing up.
235
00:23:08,510 --> 00:23:12,260
My parents, they communicate. The problem was this is a problem.
236
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:17,540
Yeah. You don't seem to have ideas. Well, this is a problem and this is what we are going to do.
237
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:24,650
So sometimes everybody would always eat. So they were going so fast because the problem is there's no food at all.
238
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:34,810
Right. So we we got used to understanding the problems and then we had to creatively come up with solutions.
239
00:23:35,620 --> 00:23:41,290
So even when our parents are trying to break the box on, you know, like the children are, we're like, no, no, no, we are together.
240
00:23:41,290 --> 00:23:46,210
And we understand. And even when they give us, we still come up with the money they give us.
241
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,770
Why do you spend money? We know that you don't have any of it. Yeah. So we kept it.
242
00:23:50,890 --> 00:23:54,880
Mm hmm. So it just naturally grew me, like.
243
00:23:55,210 --> 00:24:00,970
I mean, you have to fight. It's like if you see that you're from a wealthy family or you make a wealthy family.
244
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,490
Mm hmm. You have to be on either of the divide.
245
00:24:05,860 --> 00:24:16,990
He's also been. That's just fall from it. When I come wealthy, you know, opportunities are we can we can determine backgrounds.
246
00:24:17,420 --> 00:24:19,329
I mean the families are a come from the Kennedys.
247
00:24:19,330 --> 00:24:24,940
I mean the kind of language that we speak or we can determine how we want to respond to this reality.
248
00:24:25,570 --> 00:24:35,530
And so for me, whilst growing up, my parents have taught me how to respond to the realities and things that I do not quite agree with them on.
249
00:24:35,950 --> 00:24:44,980
I try to fight it like, no, no, no, no, don't. You know, I, I try to, you know, candidly, that's an opinion.
250
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:52,479
So that's I think that's that's what I was actually built me internally as sometimes even in the face of this thing,
251
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,760
it's not like I construct like, oh, I lost my brother. I'm the hero.
252
00:24:55,790 --> 00:24:59,780
No. I'm the. I'm not the hero then.
253
00:25:00,050 --> 00:25:05,780
I'm just. It's just an insight I begin to see. Oh, I've done this better, you know?
254
00:25:06,170 --> 00:25:10,580
Oh, I was money. My result old. I was crying. I feel like the war that ended.
255
00:25:10,910 --> 00:25:18,319
I feel like I disappointed a lot of people that looked up to me. But yeah, if I never did, never look up to me again.
256
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,490
So what? What else can I do? What more can I do?
257
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:28,889
You know. So. And when I see people that are in similar situations let me tell me about the end will be I
258
00:25:28,890 --> 00:25:34,140
feel lost school I'm like if you're law school you can always try your feel lost now but yeah,
259
00:25:34,290 --> 00:25:38,430
that's why it is an opportunity to take receipts you know, papers.
260
00:25:38,850 --> 00:25:44,130
They understand that reality. I'm not a Oh, you feel low school and you can never be a lawyer again.
261
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:49,050
Ever know they've provided room for that reality?
262
00:25:49,170 --> 00:25:52,410
He did not come. When you expect it, it's what you wanted it.
263
00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:59,069
But it's you, Castle. Get it? That's what matters. And then how did you feel when you didn't?
264
00:25:59,070 --> 00:26:05,430
When the Rhodes Scholarship for 2020? Let me say first that I was grateful that I made it to do.
265
00:26:05,610 --> 00:26:08,669
Should you just know as well that that's the third and final pivot point.
266
00:26:08,670 --> 00:26:13,530
Another very, very hard at the moment. Yeah actually just first that I'm.
267
00:26:15,130 --> 00:26:19,320
I felt very excited when I was shortlisted for the year.
268
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,170
So you're one of the top ten finalists for West Africa for 2020?
269
00:26:23,620 --> 00:26:28,900
The year before I checked, I checked with scholars around the world on this application.
270
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:31,980
For me, I don't have a place here. I don't even come close.
271
00:26:32,740 --> 00:26:40,000
And so the second year, so imposter syndrome came to me and my dad asked me like the last time, Oh, did you send me the application?
272
00:26:40,750 --> 00:26:45,940
I know I did not do the win, you know, roots columns.
273
00:26:46,060 --> 00:26:51,690
Yeah. I said I was like, okay, so see, I am not like that.
274
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:56,590
You know, I don't have an exceptional quality, my own opinion at the time.
275
00:26:57,250 --> 00:27:01,660
And they told me that's. Just apply a light.
276
00:27:01,820 --> 00:27:06,889
There's no point wasting my time. So you don't just apply. I remember, like I said, we did my final application.
277
00:27:06,890 --> 00:27:15,390
10 minutes of deadline. And so I locked my mind on anything because of course, like I said, after reading,
278
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:19,620
I was just I had this imposter syndrome that I don't I don't come close.
279
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:26,100
But to God's glory, I was shortlisted for The Different Round.
280
00:27:26,730 --> 00:27:31,500
The first long list, the email I got. I was on a bike in Nigeria called Okada.
281
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:40,740
I always tripped when I got the image. I read this guy's meetings, so made a mistake and I was so happy like I was longlisted.
282
00:27:40,740 --> 00:27:46,670
And that's I mean, that was the height of all this so big coming after, you know, I didn't make it.
283
00:27:46,670 --> 00:27:53,910
So I you make it first class from law school. It was so big for me that I wasn't long listed as one of like 300 people.
284
00:27:54,300 --> 00:27:57,480
It didn't matter to me. I'll still be thousands of people. That was not.
285
00:27:58,870 --> 00:28:11,410
And then gradually, you know, they sort of differentiate least and I'm ready to protect him and I will disguise the admitted mistake again, you know.
286
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:21,230
And, you know, at the time of the ovation, he said for the ten finalists, then I think maybe, maybe.
287
00:28:21,550 --> 00:28:25,540
And I said, I beat expectations, but expectations.
288
00:28:25,930 --> 00:28:29,319
And so when I didn't. Finally make it again.
289
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:38,799
I just feel like, oh, you know, and that yeah, I think I got into Cambridge without funding, you know, everything.
290
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,860
Just I feel like it's not for you, you know?
291
00:28:41,860 --> 00:28:44,979
Oxford is not for you. Cambridge is not for you.
292
00:28:44,980 --> 00:28:49,900
Can we just do the give you admission? You know, it's just the imposter syndrome.
293
00:28:49,900 --> 00:28:53,620
Then came in like, you know, I told you.
294
00:28:54,250 --> 00:29:02,340
I told you. I told you. And at that point, I just told myself that even if you be me ten years to keep on playing.
295
00:29:03,090 --> 00:29:06,300
Every year they recognised this skill gives a play.
296
00:29:06,330 --> 00:29:12,630
Yeah. And even if it takes ten games, only ten to do so [INAUDIBLE] just give up and I'll keep applying.
297
00:29:13,290 --> 00:29:15,810
And so I could. Michelle I've applied to this school.
298
00:29:16,140 --> 00:29:22,800
They didn't pick me and I'm like, up in there, they look at me like, No, you have not like I have been there.
299
00:29:24,020 --> 00:29:27,410
I am. And they don't.
300
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,730
They think I'm just making up the story. You know, I can show you my rejection emails.
301
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:37,070
Why do people think you're making up the story? Maybe I just sympathise with them and make them feel good.
302
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,790
I'm making you feel good. I'm just telling you what it is, you know?
303
00:29:41,270 --> 00:29:44,479
And I feel I see people come to visit me. I don't think you have problems.
304
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,980
You can almost. I know. I understand.
305
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:51,410
I've been there. Even now, I'm still there.
306
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,580
Because for every mountain, don't climb. Being there comes another.
307
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:02,720
Except you want to settle for less. So the height of your achievements is the least of unknown persons.
308
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:07,550
So if you want to keep progressing by the time you are done, so hit this targets.
309
00:30:07,580 --> 00:30:11,330
You don't sleep. You move on to another thing for as long as you're alive.
310
00:30:11,330 --> 00:30:18,230
They are always, you know, you don't need to be and still be to for the rest of my life, you know, tomorrow or next year,
311
00:30:18,260 --> 00:30:28,820
because it is so much to me is like food when you don't eating unsatisfied there comes on a down there that you have to satisfy.
312
00:30:30,170 --> 00:30:35,450
When you don't drink in water, you don't see or have drunk water to drink for the next two weeks.
313
00:30:36,170 --> 00:30:40,520
Tomorrow, in fact, in another 10 minutes, you can just feel thirsty.
314
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,220
That's why life is. Achievements like that. We are doing.
315
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,940
Oh. You slip away, Dusty?
316
00:30:49,610 --> 00:30:52,760
That's the way it is. And now how do you feel?
317
00:30:53,090 --> 00:30:58,130
How do you feel dealing with that reality now that you are here and in Oxford?
318
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,930
And I should also just say that I think imposter syndrome is a thing that really everybody does feel here.
319
00:31:04,850 --> 00:31:09,620
I think that it happens and it'll continue to happen again.
320
00:31:09,950 --> 00:31:13,430
Like, I came in here and I see when people, you know, introduce themselves.
321
00:31:14,740 --> 00:31:21,209
How did I make it into this room? You know? And then you begin to speak to people and realise.
322
00:31:21,210 --> 00:31:25,390
So they feel what you feel is what they feel. They feel inadequate.
323
00:31:25,390 --> 00:31:28,500
I'm like, Who? Whereas Yahoo. Yeah.
324
00:31:28,510 --> 00:31:31,630
So everybody is in the same space and the same bubble.
325
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,610
And so, in fact, when I came in and the first set of applications that I made,
326
00:31:36,610 --> 00:31:41,500
all I wanted to do this I to help you know actually it was sorry because that a lot of people in that.
327
00:31:44,190 --> 00:31:48,880
Only fact that I'm in Oxford doesn't take that away from me. Everybody's also in Oxford.
328
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:52,520
We are playing for the same thing. But like me, I got the first one.
329
00:31:52,530 --> 00:31:59,490
I just felt like. Come on. So now people say we are sorry and we regret and say, Oh, it's fine.
330
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,820
It's nice. Just give me a good opportunity to focus on other things.
331
00:32:03,870 --> 00:32:09,599
Yeah. So that's it for me? Yeah, I think it very much is like a pressure cooker for people.
332
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:15,060
Once you are actually in here, you know, it's like all of the pressure that you arrive here with, you hold onto that.
333
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,950
But then once you start speaking to each other, those walls break down a little bit.
334
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:26,520
And the pressure I guess the pressure is still there. Yeah, but I guess it makes it easier to know that everybody feels the same.
335
00:32:26,610 --> 00:32:31,860
Yeah, I think what Bina should add is what is called collaborative advantage.
336
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,560
That's the one thing that I've been able to use, and that is working for me.
337
00:32:37,710 --> 00:32:40,680
So it's collaboration over competition.
338
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:47,130
So when you guys are competing and looking at it from one perspective, I want to hear this, but when you guys are collaborative.
339
00:32:48,150 --> 00:32:49,770
I bring my ideas to table.
340
00:32:49,770 --> 00:32:59,250
You bring your ideas to the table, we will submergence and we are able to, you know, conquer what we would have done individually and get intention.
341
00:32:59,460 --> 00:33:02,690
We were able to bring attention to the table. We have 20. Hmm.
342
00:33:02,910 --> 00:33:07,380
So it's called collaborative advantage. But many people feel it's a competition.
343
00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:10,290
It's not a competition. Yeah, you are competing.
344
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:17,490
But it did get a compete and you're collaborating for the future because they are going to be in the University of Oxford forever as a student.
345
00:33:17,970 --> 00:33:23,850
There's a timeframe, there's a time limits, you know, for which you can be here for.
346
00:33:24,270 --> 00:33:29,909
So as much as you have a distinction from Oxford, I don't have a distinction in relationship.
347
00:33:29,910 --> 00:33:33,220
You don't have a distinction in experience. You don't have to be.
348
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,550
Well, the first time I went to the Black Matic effect.
349
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:44,430
I don't support those in that school of government. And I was you know, I entered the building and I was surprised like this.
350
00:33:44,860 --> 00:33:47,580
Lots of people in here. I've never seen this before.
351
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:53,610
You know, if I've never if I didn't go there, draw my University of Oxford, it's always, oh, this is beautiful.
352
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,360
Mr. Wellesley went off with concerns about it. Like, I didn't go there.
353
00:33:59,130 --> 00:34:01,440
You know, they look at me in a funny way.
354
00:34:02,250 --> 00:34:09,840
So wherever that we are in or whatever, whatever stage we're going through in life, we should understand that it's a matter of time.
355
00:34:10,260 --> 00:34:14,010
No matter how difficult today's days, it's we end as we all come.
356
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,480
It's not easy. Or because it's difficult to be found out, too.
357
00:34:18,630 --> 00:34:24,840
Mm hmm. And so that's the framework I have in my mind. No matter how prejudiced I am, this time we'll go.
358
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,490
And another time will come. So it's it's it's a it is a time for you.
359
00:34:29,550 --> 00:34:33,110
Mm hmm. And I love that idea as well of collaborating for the future.
360
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,740
And on that note, what do you feel is next for you on that note?
361
00:34:37,770 --> 00:34:41,970
I feel that I'm just very open minded to work with people.
362
00:34:42,450 --> 00:34:46,140
Like I said, I just just came back from the BBC.
363
00:34:46,650 --> 00:34:52,230
And because I'm teaching my system to teach on a course for the masses of public policy,
364
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,510
when I was coming here to have that a back of my mind that that was going to happen or was even going to be possible.
365
00:34:57,930 --> 00:35:04,740
So for the future, I just want to like I always see impacts impacting people is, is a big thing for me.
366
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,839
You know, when people tell me, oh, what you said helps me, you know what you said to me,
367
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:17,160
I was going to give up on this, but I decided to do it again, you know, and I ended well, you know, so.
368
00:35:18,350 --> 00:35:29,600
Next for me is to concentrate on my dphil so be open minded to absorb as much as possible like a form sponge soaking in as much as possible.
369
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:38,450
The pressure because the worst kind of prejudice, the pressure that you put on yourself because you just, you scholarly, you know, you will move in.
370
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,489
I just think you're dying. I mean, eventually die.
371
00:35:43,490 --> 00:35:47,990
So don't pressure yourself. Step out of that kind of difficult.
372
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:53,300
Well, step, step out of it. Discuss with people. For me, I joke about my problems.
373
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,910
Like, Oh, I took a maltese.
374
00:35:58,930 --> 00:36:02,090
Yeah. And someone says, oh, no, no, no, no, no. They laugh.
375
00:36:02,910 --> 00:36:06,930
And then we all laughed together and I said, We have to write. If you don't laugh, you cry.
376
00:36:06,940 --> 00:36:10,470
So. So I joke about my problems, and I'm not.
377
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:15,719
I tell people there's no point putting a political face to the University of Oxford.
378
00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:22,550
And so you do everything. And it's not possible for you to know everything that turns out to be foolish because you don't know.
379
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:27,240
And that's the only way you can learn. We were like to say something. Well, I don't know.
380
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:36,870
I I've just asked, you know, so this this I mean, you expected to be of a high intellectual standing,
381
00:36:37,290 --> 00:36:43,020
but not an all sufficient, you know, omnipotent intellectual.
382
00:36:43,860 --> 00:36:49,520
Mm hmm. That's and that's the point. So there's no pressure killing yourself.
383
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:53,850
You don't know? You ask. You don't know.
384
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,260
You find out, you know, and you never forget because you've been corrected.
385
00:36:59,230 --> 00:37:02,340
You know, so that's that's the one that is perfect.
386
00:37:02,470 --> 00:37:06,150
No, man that I know of or the lack thereof that is perfect.
387
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:16,000
Everyone, even presidents, go through the worst of it's even the most successful people are still bothered by their own success.
388
00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:23,200
So that's it for me. I think that's a really perfect piece of advice to end on.
389
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,730
Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
390
00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:29,320
Give.
