PFFL-E#4 Adventures in Leadership With Tom Coyle (Remastered)

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Welcome to Philosophy from the front Line. This podcast explores the intersection of philosophy,
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entrepreneurship, and veteran transition. Join
us as we delve into the minds
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of successful entrepreneurs so it made the
journey from military service and small business ownership.
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Our guests will share their insights,
experience, and unique perspectives on life,
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business, and the world around us. Those are deep conversations and doctor
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program discussions. We hope to inspire
and empower our listeners to attack with their
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own challenges and share with their brains. So sit back, relax, and
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get ready to explore the entrepreneurship from
the vue's point of view. This is
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Philosophy from the front line, and
we'll see you on the high ground.
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It's Rob Robinson. I've got Tom
Coyle on the line and we are doing
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philosophy from the front line. So
to get right into it, just a
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quick introduction about yourself, Tom,
if you don't want absolutely, Rob,
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thanks for having me on. So
graduate, we were in the same company
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at West Point, graduated nineteen ninety
seven, spent some time and feel artillery,
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went to Fort Campbell, then finished
out at Third ID did some cool
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stuff along the way doing that time, I was the guy who always just
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missed or the deployment or just after
deployment type of thing. Actually I was
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made battery XO, and so the
battery went to a new battery, and
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then the battery I left went to
Kosovo. I gave up command of two
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FAD in two thousand and one,
and then the unit went to Afghanistan.
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She left in nine to eleven,
the around November December. So it's like
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the guy and then I show up
at third I D and I'm now,
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I guess asign grew detachment command because
I want to keep everybody else frozen in
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place. So I was the guy
who never went anywhere in the army.
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But I left in an army in
two thousand and four, went to join
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the State Department Foreign Service, did
that for a bit, and now I
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got my own company Adventures in Leadership. Wow. Yeah. So moving into
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a question two, which is when
did you transition down the military and why?
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It was two thousand and four,
and you know, I was kind
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of going back and forth and so
so then I had said you have going
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special Forces. I actually went.
I made it through Special Forces Assessment and
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Selection course. And then I did
not the Q course. So if the
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Q course, I kind of did
this signal what's next? What do I
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really want to do? And I
enjoyed the Army, but you know,
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there were some things that just drove
me a little nuts about it, like
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as any organization, frankly, and
I just and I talked to a guy
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who actually was at the State Department. I'm like, you know, that's
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actually kind of cool. And maybe
maybe I loved foreign affairs and international relations
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that type of things. Maybe this
is a better skill set for me,
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because the thing is the Army was
you know, it didn't look like I'd
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be able to go a Feyo track
because with artillery they're not letting the losss
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go over to that Theayo track just
because of the state of the branch at
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that point. And then it's like, well, I could wait and maybe
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do something and a few years later
eventually get to that spot, or I
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kind of do what I want to
do right now, and that's what sort
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of I made my jump there to
leave and do that, and now it
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was that was a good challenge,
but like anything else, and it was
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nice. I actually went to Afghanistan
as a as a diplomat, which was
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interesting perspective and it was cool and
I really had value added. I was
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performing a lot of responsibilities above my
pay grades, so to speak, because
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I really understood both worlds. I
came from the military and I of course
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then being in a state part so
spent a lot of time with provincial reconstruction
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team sites and doing those types of
things and being able to really speak the
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language of the two bureaucracies. And
yeah, that's really tapped me for a
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lot of things, just because I
could fill a role and everyone not understanding
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each other's role. Sometimes you get
that with all these different organizations on the
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ground, and I really enjoyed that
for a time. And so, no,
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that's good, and I know that. Yeah, I've had some experience
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with State Department. In one of
my last deployments when I was in Iraq,
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I ended up having to go to
the embassy daily for just the operational
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update brief. And being able to
have that cross cultural discussion is very very
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important, you know, And it's
interesting. That's part of the reason why
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I'm doing this podcast is to make
people realize that, Like you can read
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all these articles that will tell you, hey, you're not ready to translate
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on the outside, or there's something
not for you in the civilian sector,
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and it's kind of really going back
to hunting those opportunities that kind of fit
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your personality. And the biggest,
the biggest takeaway that I've learned so far
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in the five discussions that I've had
with people that have come on is just
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understanding that, like, your transition
is super super personal and what you end
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up doing is super super personal because
you have to have the right fit.
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And one of the things that we
talked about with quite a few folks is
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just like the interview process. You
know, you're actually giving that company the
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opportunity to get to know you,
but you're also trying to get to know
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them and see where you fit.
And it's just interesting, you know,
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hearing that you transition from the military, went to Department of State and now
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you're doing your own thing, which
is which is huge, and you know,
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being your own boss has some advantages
and there's some disadvantages as well,
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you know, but at the end
of the day, it's something that you
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chose to do. And I want
to highlight you know, the transition points
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are important, but it's what you
do after that and kind of acknowledging,
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uh, you know, your efforts
both in and outside of the military.
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So that roles were I into question
three and that is what are you doing
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now? So and sort of follo
up with just sit in but I'll get
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to that question, but sort of
follow up with the comments you just made
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here every single transition. You know, I didn't rush it. The thing
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is, I see people if I
was in the army, they would leave
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what's your plan? Well, I
don't know. I'm just leaving the army.
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So I mean, you know,
take the time. And I did
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this even it's you know, when
I started adventure in leadership, this was
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kind of like something I was doing
on the side to basically figure out,
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you know, could I validate the
business plan, do it outside, take
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leave here and there, and do
some of these leadership things and things and
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that not only do I like it, this is viable. This is a
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business. That type of thing.
And so when you look at what you
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want to do, whether it's working
for a company organization for take the time
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to do the homework and plan early. That that's the thing. And so
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yeah, right now I am doing
my own business. And even then I've
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transitioned this. So the core business
adventures in leadership was experiential learning. I
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started off targeting high school students and
it would started off as a give back
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thing. While working at State R
I'd take two weeks off in the summer
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and run two one week camps for
kids, and we do basically Camp Buckner
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type stuff. I mean, we
tone down the military aspect of it,
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but the thing like Leader's reaction course
type things, orienteering, land nav they
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navigate your point to get to a
point, here's your problem. You have
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to solve on the next point and
really get them solving the problems themselves.
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And then then I started getting corporate
gigs, so hey, this is kind
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of cool. Keep come to my
company and do this type of thing.
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And so with all experiential learning and
one of the things at the end of
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the week, I'd take people to
Gettysburg and do this whole look of staff
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ride. I later wrote a book, Leadship Lessons in the Battle of Gettysburg,
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and that's led to be more doing
more of these staff ride things.
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Right now, in today's COVID environment, I'm I'm losing that business and so
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I've had to adapt yet again like
a lot of businesses have and doing more
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online stuff and something I kind of
got into. I've always been really comfortable
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and I can with tech people,
and you know, I did a little
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bits of state where I was helping
them, like I kind of was like,
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hey, how come we don't have
this? I kept complaining things I
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don't have that I do have on
the outside, and they say, hey,
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you look like you understand this AI
stuff. Maybe could help us implement
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some systems. And I've applied that
to mentioned leadership where I've been helping decision
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makers implement AI. A lot of
people right now going hey, I know
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I need autonomous systems. I don't
even know where to start. And so
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I've been working with companies doing that
work with another West Point grad I have
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a non disclosure so I can't talk
about this, but we're helping up a
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company doing some AI processes with them
that the CEO is like, look,
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I need some challenges here from understanding
my customers to everything else like this,
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and we're just way behind. Yet
we have the resources to do this.
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Yeah, well that sounds good discussion
for another time, because that's basically what
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I'm doing down here. ATI is
trying to integrate technology that's emerging into the
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you know, into the military,
you know, DoD apparatus, law enforcement
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locally, and then focusing in on
STEM education and academic partnership. So that's
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right when we'll have that, we'll
definitely have to have enough conversation on that.
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Yeah, there's definitely something in the
wheelhouse about that. But again,
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it's one of those things that like
most people realize that it's out there,
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but they don't know how to capitalize
on it. And that's one of the
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things that we're very fortunate enough,
particularly and where we are today, is
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that the it's hard to say this, and you know, because of the
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tragedy that's been associated with COVID,
but business has been good for us as
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far as outreach and relationship building.
You know, it's unfortunate that, you
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know, it took this situation to
get to that, but you know,
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a lot of the things that I've
been able to do, particularly just getting
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the podcast rolling, has been because
people are isolated and we can't go anywhere.
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So it's now time to like have
those conversations with folks that are interested
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in some of the things that we're
doing. But also provides some feedback to
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the community. So you know,
once the doors are open and everybody starts
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rolling back into work, I think
there's going to be a lot of a
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lot of positive momentum for a lot
of businesses as a result of the relationships
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that have built since we've all been
on lockdown. No, absolutely, I
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couldn't agree more. And I think
this is you know, look, you
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know, you're going to have something
that hits you like a left hook out
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of nowhere and you can't doing about
it, and you can sit and feel
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sorry for yourself, or you know, take some action on this thing.
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And you know, I mean,
you know, for me, taking companies
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event you know, typically this is
the season where one company per week,
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I'm taking the Gettysburg and that's a
nice little chunk of income that I'm just
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not getting right now. And I
can feel sorry for myself or do something
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different. And what's interesting right now
you mentioned the discipine people. I'm looking
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for things to do. You don't
know what you want to do yet.
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I mean, like three sixty five, data Science was offering free data science
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courses to people for this this pandemic
thing. So learning some Python, learning
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some you know, and deep learning
all those types of things. Think of
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anything you want to do. I
have a friend of mine writing a screenplay
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right now. Always wanted to do
one, just finish it up there and
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I was going to try and shop
in around if he gets nowhere. He
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finally wrote the screenplay. He wanted
to write another one out in front of
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my another from my He's a non
West planner but a military vettern. He
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wrote his novel out at all completely. Always wanted to write a novel,
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so used this time to do that. Well, I'm not working, also
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do the thing I've never had time
to do. Yeah, very true,
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and I enjoy it. Like I
said, I've been in credibly blessed to
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be able to work and then still
be able to do outreach. And part
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of the outreach is you know the
podcast as well, you know, getting
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getting veterans to have those conversations,
and it's incredible and one of the things
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that I will highlight as well.
And before we get into the fourth question,
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is your network, right, And
I talked about the utilization of social
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media and LinkedIn all those other things
to kind of leverage those tools to create
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opportunities for yourself. And I can
tell you that you know, in a
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given week, I connect with five
to ten people that are relationships of relationships
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or second or third order folks on
LinkedIn, but they always have something valuable.
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So your network is important. And
the other piece of it is is
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you kind of get to see what
people are doing if they're active on the
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business side on LinkedIn. You know, social media is what it is.
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We see the best of people in
those but from a business perspective, being
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able to highlight what you're doing and
it may garner interests like, oh wow,
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that's pretty cool. Let me reach
out to that person, or do
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I know somebody that's in that person's
network that can kind of help me build
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a relationship with them. And it's
huge, absolutely, And to the chiming
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on that point there, I mean, one of the things I thought was
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very valuable to me, So I
actually got one of my big executive coaching
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contracts of Fortune five hundred. Firm
came about because I posted a video on
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LinkedIn about why your training program sucks, and someone in the company saw that
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video. I said, holy crap, you know, this is exactly what
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we need. And the whole premise
behind it is training in most employees' minds,
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and certainly in the military, is
somebody screwed up therefore having training.
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Someone touched somebody inappropriately for half training. Now, oh we're having leadership training.
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Who created the hostile work environment that
I'm now going to be training on.
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So it's the mass punishment thing.
It's even with something good, it
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doesn't resonate. So went this whole
thing, and so we set that program.
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Got great reviews, but it was
just putting stuff out there and I
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write on Medium. In fact,
the gig I got right now with this
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AI thing was because of my latest
article on Medium and somebod hey, wow,
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I need someone like you, And
I just connected to the person on
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LinkedIn said I need someone like you
who understands this stuff to help us with
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this thing. Yeah, and I
can tell you that the AI problems that
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is huge, and then everybody is
doing it. It's just a matter of
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perfecting that technology to make it useful
to the average person. It's kind of
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like a cell phone. Right twenty
years ago, you know, we had
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the big bag phones and nobody knew
how to use them. And now everybody
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has a library of Congress in their
pocket now, whether they choose to use
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it is a different story, but
it's available well. And the other thing
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about that with that is one of
the things I've been looking at is in
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taking my cross culture communication stuff and
all the things that came from the State
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Department, as well as saying that
in combining the military, is how do
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you filter through that You're gonna get
all this stuff and a lot of people
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I see on the con social media, I don't even know if something's true,
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Like how do I even evaluate that? And you have all this information,
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but it's like how to filter it
out? And it's a challenge certainly
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in the battlefield. We that's something
veterans can really help with because that's that's
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our daily life. You get all
this information feed coming in and you've got
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a process more information you can actually
humanly process and make decisions on this.
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And you know, I think really
time back what they want to. The
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point I wanted to bring up there
is is, uh, veterans a lot
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of times they look at it,
I'm in it. They try to do
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too much of a linear relationship between
what their their job set is and what
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I'm able to do. Well,
I'm just infantry. Therefore I can only
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do these things or I was this, or I did this. I helped
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the guy get a job at honest
t They were acquired by co Colo out
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back, but they might might maybe
people have seen them around their company.
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But guy I lent him my book
let read love this book new want to
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do something different, and he read
the book that these guys did. It
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was in comic book form, so
basically the whole their whole business thing,
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that their whole story is in the
comic, big graphic novel type of format,
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and he loved it. Wrote to
these guys and said, look,
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I'm not sure if I have any
skills to help your company, but I
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really believe in your mission, what
you're trying to do and all this kind
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of thing, and I want to
I know, I need to be part
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of this somehow. And he actually
got a job there, got a good
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salary and up the company. Wow. That's that's amazing, all right.
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So moving on to question number four, and this is one that always kind
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of is is not really odd,
but it's definitely something that we have to
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talk about. And this is part
of the real meat of the podcast is
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you know, what was the hardest
part about transitioning out out of the military.
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And you have a unique story because
you went from one department to another.
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But I mean, I'm sure that
there was still some learning curve that
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kind of happened as you were switching
over TODs and then eventually getting to where
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you are today. Oh absolutely,
So the big learning curve is in the
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military for the most part. If
I talk to a fellow officer and they
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said, yeah, I can do
this for you, they're going to come
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through, you know, or or
they'll be coming up if something happened,
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they're going to come up and say, hey, sorry, man, you
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know this happened, and your here's
what happened. And the frustration when I
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first went to DS was that,
you know, you could talk to somebody
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hey yeah, I gotcha. Then
they really had no intention of ever doing
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it. But they say all the
right things just to make you feel good
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in the conversation, and they don't
do it. There's also the thing of
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you know, we're not calling you
know, we weren't ranking our callers.
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There is no sir in that type
of thing. I mean, obviously the
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ambassador or the it was either sir
or ma'am. But you know, it's
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a very informal lives network in a
lot of ways, and it just kind
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of gets the idea where like,
you know, the boss says, here's
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what I want, so that I'm
not doing that. We didn't do it
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that that's we were just the meeting. That's what he wants. That's what
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we're doing these kind of stations like
you want we get these meetings in the
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bastro and was like, y'all want
us to go out there. We need
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to be gating. You need to
be linked up with the military at these
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reconstruction pipes. Get like, by
all work the military, but it doesn't
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matter. That's what these that's the
man said, No, I agree or
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disagree, that's what we have got
to do. And so that was a
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hard thing for me to get used
to it. That had to do more
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follow up with people to make sure
that weren't just like telling you what I
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wanted to hear and then just blow
me off. So that was the biggest
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thing for me. Oh wow,
Yeah, And I think that's one of
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the things. Like one of the
one of my first guests that I had
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on she is a grab from O
seven And again I'm gonna harp on this
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point until I get another another really
good one, but she was she had
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come up with a pretty creative idea
and floated around her team and then one
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of the members of her team took
it and presented it to the SEE and
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didn't even give like any acknowledgment of
her efforts on the project, you know.
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And I think one of the things
that we learned in the military,
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and it's funny that you mentioned an
NDA with another company, but one of
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the things that we learn is like
opsec is everything, So we only talk
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about what's important with who needs to
know, and it's kind of baked it
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and inherent in what we do.
But you know, as you're transitioning out,
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like I've signed more NDAs in this
company, then you know I've signed
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non disclosures for the military because it's
like two or three and that's basically tied
286
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to when you upgrade your clearance,
right, But it's because inherently everything that
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we do we have to maintain a
level of security on and it's just it's
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just a different part of the transition. So it's one of those things that
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like, yeah, your intellectual ideas
when you're in the army, you know,
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who cares if you're sup word that
takes it and runs with it as
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long as it gets in front of
the boss and their success. But when
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there's a dollar sign attached to it
or promotion, then it makes it a
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little bit more uncomfortable and you're like, man, like, I think I
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could have done that better. I
wish I could have. But definitely one
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of those things that like I've always
taken a note and I've found a lot
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of interesting people that have said,
you know, hey, this is this
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is kind of how it went down, or you know something that was kind
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of crazy that just kind of popped
up along the way and then go ahead,
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yeah no, and just to clarify
the d us, like most people
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weren't like this, but there was
a pretty there's a size little chunk of
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the population that was more so than
I would have found in the military.
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So immediately, yeah, so I
guess kind of make it look I'm not
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trashed my the deals too, must
know. I mean, for the most
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part, people were the right kind
of people, especially in a place like
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Afghanistan, those types of volunteer for
that type of thing. But you did
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have that, and there's more of
this, and I see it in corporate
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America too. Some and the consulting, the boss says something like that,
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well, we'll just blow that off
type of thing, or will slow roll
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that. And you know, I've
heard people tell me it does somewhat the
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military to a degree, and yeah, I kind of saw it. But
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usually it gets solved pretty quickly once
the old man finds out what's going on
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and the problem is solved. Yeah, somebody's going to get smacked around,
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and then there's going to be a
result from that. Yeah, And I
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think I think that's that's the most
interesting part of the biggest change between you
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know, military culture and culprit culture
is that you know, you can read
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all the leadership books that you want, and what points out the most interesting
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pieces people, Right, People are
the most dynamic aspect of a leadership,
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regardless of how good you are or
how poor you are as a leader,
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Understanding, you know, the leadership
overall is really you know, how do
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I get people to interact and knowing
those personalities so kind of like mapping out
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the people scape or the human terrain, as we would say in the military,
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is understanding that like Rob's the kind
of guy that I got to follow
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up on, or Tom's the kind
of guy that's fire and forget I can
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launch him on a mission and he
can accomplish it. The other thing,
325
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too, is look at is as
important is you know when you're when you're
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getting interviewed, you're also interviewing them. I mean, don't be afraid to
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like walk away if the interview saying
this is not the right culture fit,
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I don't want to be part of
this. This is there's I'm getting a
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ad vibe of something here. You
know, those are all fair discussions.
330
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Sometimes you're transitioning, you you want
to get that job, you're trying to
331
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get that job, and you think, oh my god, this is great.
332
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Don't make the square peg fit in
the round hole. Make sure you're
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being honest yourself. If there's something
that's just like, you know, I
334
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just don't think i'd be happy here
for whatever that is. I don't like
335
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the people. And the thing that
goes back to the thing that when the
336
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point you started touching on is like
INDs was I started moving around. One
337
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thing I wanted to do is I
started looking at the boss. Is this
338
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the kind of boss the person I'm
working for that would have my back?
339
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Like other words, if if if
they said they gave me something, I
340
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did it. And if someone goes, I'm gonna blow off Tom, like
341
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is he going to have my side? If someone's like, well, I
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don't want to do that, like
if those things in there, and that
343
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was important. Not everybody was like
that, but I found the people that
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were like that. HR was working
for them because they're the ones that are
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gonna sit there and say yes,
you will do no, don't do that,
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or if I say, if I
come back and say, look,
347
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I've been doingything, I can,
especially when I'm doing with a peer who's
348
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in the same position, who I
can't really you know, I can't throw
349
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you CMJA at them. And it's
just like we're just going back and forth.
350
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You have different viewpoints like yeah,
no problem, I'll take care of
351
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that. Yeah, And that's that's
great, great part of the discussion too.
352
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So after transition from BOS and this
kind of goes into question number five,
353
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what was the hardest part of you, like starting your own business and
354
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getting into you know, lessons and
leadership. Well, and the first of
355
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one, we anyone starting any kind
of businesses am I going to fail or
356
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succeed? You know? How is
this going to go? Can I keep
357
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up the momentum, you get those
first clients, and how can I keep
358
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this going? That first and foremost
was the biggest thing, that fear of
359
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failure and you know what happens like
you know, you know there is no
360
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guaranteed income I'm not getting, there's
no guaranteed salary there do you what do
361
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you do in that case? And
so those are those things to kind of
362
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keep you out at night. And
what kind of got me through that?
363
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And this is kind of something I
started doing. I read Tim Ferris four
364
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hour work Week and don when you
talk about your fears. When fears are
365
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just in your mind, they can
cause you to just shut down or panic
366
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or not do that kind of thing. But when you sit there and he's
367
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like, okay, let me lay
out all things that can possibly have,
368
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but what would happen here? And
you write it out? Then you take
369
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the paper down one side, keep
by eleven sheet of paper. I want
370
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half put the problem, the half
of what would happen? What would I
371
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do in that situation? Oh?
Yeah, you know I have this?
372
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Well how you know it? If
this happened and I couldn't fit a mortgage,
373
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well, hey I got this much
money of my TSP, so I
374
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could you know, I can use
that money if I had to, or
375
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I couldn't end this. Here's what
I can do about this if I hadn't
376
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take some of my hospital and you
circle to that process then when you know,
377
00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:25.079
looking at him, hey, these
aren't these aren't think at all.
378
00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:27.000
I can solve these or at least
I have a plan to solve them if
379
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something happens. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, And I think that's one
380
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other things that you know, some
of us are fortunate enough like me to
381
00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:38.720
land the I won't say it's a
dream job, but it's it's a great
382
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job. You know, it's nice, exciting, you know, I and
383
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I walked down to the military,
was able to sign up and do this,
384
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and for a lot of people,
you know, sometimes it's it's it's
385
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:52.839
finding that happy medium between what is
the dream job and what is good enough?
386
00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:56.359
You know, and we we've lived
with what is good enough in the
387
00:21:56.440 --> 00:21:57.319
army're like, hey, is this
order good enough for me to fill out
388
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:03.200
of patrol? Yeah? Versus you
know, I'm going to meticulously analyze this
389
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down to the you know, to
the very you know, the very granular
390
00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.200
material of it, and then I'm
going to miss an opportunity because I'm doing
391
00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:15.920
too much research. So again it's
that striking that happy balance between the two
392
00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:19.440
things. Uh, and this the
just timing really quick. One thing is
393
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right now we live in a great
age because people want to help military veterans.
394
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Companies are willing to have conversations with
military veterans. I do my own
395
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stock trading and make some income doing
that as well. And I mentioned this
396
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:33.519
because one thing I did is I
found guy A Dommy's every night you'll see
397
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:37.079
him on the NBC's Fast Money,
very well respected trader. I found.
398
00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:38.000
I was in d C. Figured
out well tell he was in because he
399
00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:41.480
was post something about Twitter. He
was speaking at something or other. So
400
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:44.279
I sat there in the lobby waiting
for him on a Saturday, brought a
401
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:47.759
bunch of books and I saw him
in there. Hey mister Dommie, Hey
402
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:49.039
Tom Quall, I'm a military veteran. You know I'm really interested in to
403
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:52.880
vetting well military veteran. Thank you
for servis. Hey can I help you
404
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.440
listen? I would just love to
pick your brain so for trading. And
405
00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:00.640
so we went over having dinner together
and he's sitting there like breaking everything he
406
00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:03.640
does about like this, this is
what I do is well looking at here's
407
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this thing, and you know,
I sir, you mind if I hit
408
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you know, can I get your
email and just you know, in case
409
00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:10.279
I have a question? Yeah,
sure, absolutely, here you go.
410
00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:14.039
And so now I get someone,
you know, use that veteran status to
411
00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:17.039
my advantage where someone was willing to
talk to me and build a relationship.
412
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:18.839
Right, he's one of the best
traders in the planet. To sit there
413
00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:22.480
and pick his brain and see what
he's doing, It's like, okay,
414
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:26.119
nothing else, I'm just gonna do
a guy does I mean if I you
415
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.160
know, learn from that and you
start in kind of like this how this
416
00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:33.680
podcast started. Just reaching out to
people, find someone that's doing what you
417
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:36.160
want to do or what you might
want to do, and start striking up
418
00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:38.519
a conversation. Yeah. And that's
really what I want to do, is
419
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:41.920
I want to pick people's brains because
I know I'm I'm by no means an
420
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.920
expert. You know, I have
twenty years of being a grunt. So
421
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:49.759
that's always usually the more aggressive leadership
style is equal to success. And sometimes
422
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:53.839
there's a software approach I've had to
learn that, you know, as I
423
00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:57.799
transition or even as I became an
electronic warfare officer, because you know,
424
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.039
the normal way I'm going to,
you know, use your head as a
425
00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:04.160
bowling ball kind of technique does not
normally work. You know, when you're
426
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:07.559
a must division staff and there's a
lot more of your peers you know that
427
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:11.000
you're you're interacting with. So it's
a definite way that you would have to
428
00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:15.640
change overall as your transition from the
military. But that said, there's an
429
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.880
appropriate time and place to have that
tool in your back pocket, you know,
430
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:23.079
absolutely. I mean one thing I
used to have my leadership as so
431
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:26.559
I got to command too fat at
one hundred first and basically each battalion nominated
432
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:30.359
a senior first lieutenant. Then the
DIVARTI commander picked that personal lead. It
433
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:33.759
was the best job OR had in
the army because I worked directly for an
434
00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:34.680
OH six. But there are things
to do to keep track of what I
435
00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:37.079
was doing every day, which means
I was always with my men and trained
436
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:40.359
didn't spend a lot of time in
meetings. I had two meetings a month.
437
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:42.480
That was it, and we really
had it was it was like wow,
438
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:47.480
this this is awesome, and getting
that taste that independence and being able
439
00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:49.680
to do things we want to do. But I had two section chiefs that
440
00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:52.880
were, you know, very different. If let's say they both messed up,
441
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.880
I'd go to one guy and say, hey man, you kind of
442
00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:59.440
let me down. Well this point, and that's like Dagger's going through his
443
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:03.359
heart. He's going to okay now
sending so and so comes in, And
444
00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:07.359
if I wasn't dropping f bombs and
threatening to smash his head against the wall,
445
00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:10.079
he didn't realize I was upset or
that he did something wrong. And
446
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:11.279
I would never talk to him at
the same time, because if I did
447
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:15.079
one way and the other person age
shut down and vice versa, it would
448
00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:18.759
it would work. So you had
to kind of adjust your style. Yeah,
449
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:21.440
And I think that's an important attribute
to have, is being able to
450
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:26.000
kind of use the real static personalities
on people when you have to deal with
451
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:29.200
it. And it sucks because it
feels like you're playing a game sometimes,
452
00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:32.480
but the reality of it is is
it's just knowing the folks that work for
453
00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:34.960
you, you know. And I
think that's an important part of developing as
454
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.759
a as a leader, whether it
be in the military or in business.
455
00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:41.920
Is you know, oh, yeah, this guy's going to react poorly if
456
00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:45.319
I go in there and I smash
them, you know, And there's and
457
00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:48.440
again there's an appropriate time and place, but there's also the time and place
458
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:51.200
just to be like, hey,
man, like you know what the right
459
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:55.640
answer is? Like that you can
you know? And huge, well how
460
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:59.200
you communicate since youly well of my
lessons My favorite lessons of Gettysburg was General
461
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:02.119
Yule and Lee. He had a
very genteel way of speaking. He used
462
00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:04.440
to Stonewall Jackson, who understood that, And he tells General Yule because Stonewall
463
00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:08.279
Jackson's dead, Hey take that hill
if practicable, So a fancy way of
464
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:11.160
saying practical. And Mule's like,
well, I think I'm a choice.
465
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:12.319
He looked in the situation, Hey, it's not practical to's do it in
466
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:15.440
the morning. Lee's furiously, what
we really meant was taking at all cost.
467
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:21.400
That's not what he said. And
it's since you're always you know,
468
00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:22.720
going back to your point in BacT. Sometimes it feels like a game,
469
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:26.279
but the thing is you're ultimately responsible
to successfully or the union. Who is
470
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:30.440
you kind of making sure you're on
a level where one ticks. One of
471
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.160
my favorite Lessons from Detroit Sports Debates
a book I got for my birthday when
472
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:37.039
I was in Afghanistan. It was
a sports writer saying John Daily coach the
473
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:41.960
Pistons, or Chuck Daily rather coach
the Pistons. Whenever he wanted to yell
474
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:44.799
at Isaac whenever he was mad at
Isaiah Thomas, he yelled at John Sally
475
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:47.880
because he knew Isaiah Thomas could not
take being yelled at. It would just
476
00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:51.559
mess him up. John he yelled
at John Sally, and John Sally would
477
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:53.680
translate it into the language that Isaiah
Thomas needed to hear to do what needed
478
00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:57.480
to be done. Yeah, and
that's a fair point. I think that's
479
00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:02.680
one of the things that in the
consciousness of America, you know, the
480
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.160
ability to coach is huge, and
that's one of the things that we all,
481
00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:10.519
you know, everybody all has everybody
has had a coach or someone that
482
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:14.319
they worked with that they kind of
enamored, you know, and so that
483
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:17.079
having that relationship with them, you
know, hey, you let me down,
484
00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:19.200
or you know, knowing that that
person's going to fire you up because
485
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:22.680
you made a mistake. Those are
the types of things that are very very
486
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:27.000
important to leadership and so this will
also help me kind of transition into like
487
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:30.119
this is the hidden gym question.
I keep these kind of in reserve,
488
00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.319
so I have the five overall questions, and then based off of the direction
489
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:37.799
of the conversation, I'll ask you
one of these. And this is one
490
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:41.359
of the ones that always hits pretty
well. If you had to pick two
491
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:44.559
leaders in your career, one good
and one bad, one of the most
492
00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:47.839
valuable lessons that they taught you.
You don't have the name names, but
493
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:49.920
if you do, you can it's
all right. We have an anemity at
494
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:53.680
least from at least time and distance, right, and so take a off
495
00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:57.759
from them and run you down.
I would say that the senior leadership in
496
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:02.880
afghanist at the MSc established by Ambassador
Newman. I will drop his name.
497
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:04.880
I mean he was doing everything.
I mean basically, you know, if
498
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:08.519
if he's coming off of flight and
you know, basically someone didn't know who
499
00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:11.720
the ambassador was because basically someone struggling
trying to move some kind of thing and
500
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:14.559
he goes here, let me help
you with that, and he's helping the
501
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:17.799
guy you know, move some palets
or whatever, and didn't even know what
502
00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:21.359
the palids word and didn't even ask. He's like, here's an American who
503
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.559
needed some who was struggling with it
with something. He just did it,
504
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:29.680
you know, and didn't have this
sense of I'm the most important person in
505
00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:33.359
the country. And I think that
was just a great example for all of
506
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:34.880
us and so that, hey,
we're all here to do a job.
507
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:40.680
And the idea that he enforced on
us is that you are not too good
508
00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:42.240
for any job that needs to be
done. We have a job to do
509
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:45.160
here. I don't care what your
rank is. I don't care what your
510
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:48.519
f S rank is. Yours right
out here, whatever you do, you
511
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:51.200
work in this embassy. We have
a job to do. And you know,
512
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:53.279
we're all gonna have to be We're
all gonna be rising above levels responsibly.
513
00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:56.440
And sometimes you're gonna be the guy
who has to do some really mundane
514
00:28:56.480 --> 00:29:00.839
stuff that somewhere else would be some
kind of blue collar employee. But guess
515
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:03.319
what, it's you, because it
needs to be done. That's pretty powerful.
516
00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:11.519
As far as the bad example,
I had a boss who basically what
517
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:12.839
he would do this is like you
know, we had you know, there
518
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:15.279
there was three of us. He
was that he was in charge of and
519
00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:19.000
he'd sit there and say, Okay, Tom, you're doing a fantastic job,
520
00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:22.000
but let me tell you how the
other guys are all screwed up.
521
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:23.240
This is all their problems though,
that kind of thing. I'm like,
522
00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:26.240
gee, you know, I guy, you shouldn't be talking about this.
523
00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:27.759
No, I'm just just you know, I'm just don't say anything about this.
524
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:30.839
And what I didn't know is he
was having the same conversation with all
525
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:34.039
three of us at times, and
it was then we took us a while
526
00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:37.000
to figure it out. So we
joke make a joke of like, hey,
527
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.119
so what are what are the things
I need to approve upon? Because
528
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:41.359
like, you know, I'm a
rockstar when I'm in there with him,
529
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:44.119
But then there's all these little things. He would never tell me a vice
530
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:48.799
for everybody else. And it was
just a terrible environment. And it was
531
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:51.759
funny because like the seniors never picked
up on it. Just the other thing
532
00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:55.160
about that environment, it just shows
you that leaders cannot have the blinders on.
533
00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:57.319
You have to really look at the
clues and dig deeper into things.
534
00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:00.440
And we're the faulty of Leadershi where
peop above him, there was a guy
535
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.319
that worked above him while I was
close to, and he didn't pick up
536
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:06.319
on the fact. So, like, what happened was this guy I worked
537
00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:08.519
for, the toxic guy. Every
Thursday, he'd have these happy hours.
538
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:11.880
You'd bring in some alcohol the office
and he had it all sanctioned. We
539
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.880
have the drinks, that kind of
thing. But no one who worked for
540
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:18.000
him at any level showed up.
And all these scenes with jokes, he
541
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:21.039
didn't fight them. And final I
was having having I was center going to
542
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:23.720
the guy John Smith will call him, who was the guy I was close
543
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:26.480
to, who was above him.
He's like, you know, how come
544
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:27.960
you guys ever went to those things? I said, how come? And
545
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:30.839
he eventually canceled these happy hours.
I said, how come you guys didn't
546
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:34.440
pick up on the fact nobody that
worked for him ever showed up for sanctioned
547
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:38.240
time on the on the company dime
if you the government dime to have beer
548
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:41.559
and chill. And we were just
like, yeah, I'm just gonna stay
549
00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:45.240
at my desk and work. I
mean, that didn't clue you into like,
550
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:48.839
hey, something's wrong here. And
so it just as you rise up
551
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:52.839
in rank and responsibility and that kind
of thing, it's harder because you're going
552
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:55.559
to have gatekeepers. I saw in
the army just stays in that battery level.
553
00:30:55.559 --> 00:30:57.240
People would try to keep things from
me, like type of things,
554
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:00.160
and you keep me in out of
the loop. For in some ways it
555
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:03.400
was good intention. They didn't want
to They thought my time was valuable.
556
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:04.640
They don't want to bother with the
problems. And you see, and you
557
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:07.119
see like Boeing, that's exactly what
happened at Boeing. No one wanted to
558
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:11.559
tell the boss was going on with
the airliner, and then suddenly you have
559
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:17.759
some deadly consequences and that environment which
was allowed to flourish because you know,
560
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:21.359
a he did it that way,
and the clues in the senior leadership are
561
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:22.759
feeling there to actually kind of like, hey, let's take a little deeper.
562
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.440
Something's not really going on here.
People don't want to be around this
563
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:30.599
guy, and we use this thing
of mission they're accomplishing the mission. Well,
564
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:34.839
if you're making everybody leave, are
you really accomplishing the mission? Yeah,
565
00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:38.079
that's true. And that's one of
the things that people, you know,
566
00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:41.519
there's a heartfelt discussion that everybody has
to have, you know, as
567
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.359
a leader, it's like, am
I going to be liked her, Am
568
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:48.839
I going to be respected? Right? And that is two different things.
569
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:52.759
Some people can't you know, equate
the two and keep them separated. But
570
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:57.000
like, you can be well respected
and not well whped just depends on the
571
00:31:57.160 --> 00:32:01.240
organization, or you can be all
liked and not respected, like, yeah,
572
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:05.440
I really liked the guy, but
you know, he's not really good
573
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:07.039
at X, Y or Z.
And that's one of the things that like,
574
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:10.240
part of this whole discussion and everything
that I'm trying to do is just
575
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:15.119
capture, you know, those little
nuggets of wisdom that come out from each
576
00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:17.599
one of these discussions that can be
valuable to somebody who's transitioning. And I've
577
00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:22.799
had some amazing people come on you
know so far and I'm only five episodes
578
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:24.480
in, which is kind of cool. But the other part of it is
579
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:27.599
is like I have people that are
signing up that like, yeah, I
580
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:29.920
want to do this. I want
to have a conversation with you because I
581
00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:32.880
want to drop, you know,
some of those nuggets that I learned today,
582
00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:36.720
you know, or a nugget that
I learned two years ago, so
583
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.119
it can help somebody else out during
their transition. It's kind of it's kind
584
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:44.480
of like what I used to to
see a lot when I worked at Ranger
585
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:49.160
School. So you would see the
instructors that would see a student that was
586
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:52.440
struggling, but one of the things
that they would do is like, hey,
587
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:55.119
man, like, I saw a
leader not do this when I was
588
00:32:55.160 --> 00:33:00.160
on combat and it got somebody killed
or injured. So if that guy did
589
00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:06.640
what he was supposed to do or
at least that would have rectified that situation
590
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:08.559
that was real world that the instructor
had seen, they give him the benefit
591
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:12.359
of the doubt on the patrol,
you know. And so if you see
592
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:15.720
guys past because they're like, hey, like that was terrible, like well,
593
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:19.000
sir, you know, like he
wasn't the best, but he did
594
00:33:19.160 --> 00:33:21.720
X, Y or Z. And
when it becomes, you know, really
595
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:27.400
an issue with the real world and
actual success or failure of an operational mission,
596
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:29.960
then you give the guy a little
bit more leeway. And that's one
597
00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:35.880
of the things I absolutely enjoy about
being a leader is just observing those differences
598
00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:38.920
in people's personalities and letting them flourish. You know, two things that you
599
00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:42.880
can do is a boss and I've
always said this, and this is what
600
00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:46.119
I've always asked for, is you
know, give me a left and right
601
00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:49.839
limit and some top cover. Like, if you give me those two things,
602
00:33:49.880 --> 00:33:53.400
I can thrive in that situation.
And when I'm bumping out against you
603
00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:55.960
know, my left or right limit, that's the opportunity for you to give
604
00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:59.640
me the Asthmuth check. But if
you give me, you know, that
605
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:01.759
top cover that I need, I
can do a lot more for you,
606
00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:07.200
just because I feel empowered, And
I think empowering us subordinate is one of
607
00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:09.159
the things that we absolutely all have
to learn, whether that be on the
608
00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:15.239
corporate side or on the military side. But trusting the other people that you
609
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:19.079
work with, and that's hard to
do, particularly when you know you're a
610
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:22.639
military person transitioning and you're being told
like, oh, corporate life is cutthroat
611
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:24.400
and everybody's out for the dollar and
this that or the other thing. But
612
00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:28.519
the reality of it is is if
you're mission oriented, you know you'll have
613
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:30.800
fewer of those problems. And you
know, I think part of this comes
614
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:34.840
through through a larger national discussion.
I look at like you'll kind of understand
615
00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:37.480
cultures and such. We don't understand
a culture, you know, like,
616
00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:39.239
for instance, i'd meet the US
and hear them badmouth the military. All
617
00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:43.199
these guys are a bunch adias who
can't do anything out powerpoints or the military
618
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:45.400
said, you know, these guys
can't doing that out unless there's a cable.
619
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:47.159
All these kind of things back and
forth, like have any of you
620
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:52.480
actually talked to each other yet?
Well, uh no. And when you
621
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:55.000
have that lack of like, oh, it's all cut throat, and I
622
00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:58.840
found that. You know, like
people talk about the business man, you
623
00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:00.960
know, the unethical business spa like, well, you know, if you
624
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.199
are unethical, you aren't give me
a business very long. You know,
625
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:06.599
you you might pull off a scammer
two here or there, but then you
626
00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:09.400
are just done because there's so much
of businesses on trust and the whole Like,
627
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:13.880
yeah, people are out for a
dollar, but think about this,
628
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:17.559
there's less waste. I mean,
think of some of the stupid bureau bureaucratic
629
00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:21.920
stuff you sit through in the army. Well, because the dollar is an
630
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:25.239
instant measure of success, you're not
going to tolerate a lot of that stuff
631
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:29.599
out there. Hold on a second, we're losing money here. The hurry
632
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:32.360
up and wait thing you'd experienced the
military, there's no way a civilian organization
633
00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:37.000
would ever allow that, like we're
doing what we're paying people to sit around
634
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:40.079
here for six hours waiting for a
flight. Are you getting me? True
635
00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:44.639
statement? I mean, yeah,
and one of the things. But it
636
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:47.159
does build a little resilience, you
know. So like like this whole COVID
637
00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:51.320
thing is basically like pre and post
deployment. You know, you're sitting at
638
00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:54.440
NTC in the dust bowl waiting to
go out for the FTX and then you
639
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:57.599
come back, and then you're waiting
to load up all the trucks so you
640
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:00.480
can ship them back to home station. So I know that a lot of
641
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:04.800
the military folks have been a little
bit more adjusted to you know, sitting
642
00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:08.920
around and waiting for the word from
the government to release everybody. Doesn't reduce
643
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:13.519
the frustration at any point, but
I still think it's a great opportunity to,
644
00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:15.119
uh, you know, to kind
of understand, you know, that
645
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:17.920
perspective. So for those of you
at home that aren't in the military,
646
00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:21.880
they're listening like, hey, welcome
to our world, you know, like
647
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:24.360
hey, hurry up and wait,
like you just said, Uh, Tom,
648
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:27.800
this has been great, man.
I appreciate it coming on. Yeah,
649
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:30.239
I enjoyed. I've enjoyed this conversation. But it's like I haven't enjoyed
650
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:32.679
that. I have it, not
enjoyed any of them because I learned something
651
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:36.400
new every day and that's one of
the things that I always try and do
652
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:38.440
is learn something new. But one
of the things that I would like to
653
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:40.880
do before we close out, so
I can, you know, give you
654
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:45.760
a chance to plug anything that you're
working on currently and then anything any websites
655
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:47.960
or anything else. You can shoot
them to me and a note or whatever,
656
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:52.039
but I'll definitely put them in the
description for the podcast today. But
657
00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:57.159
here's your unexploited cheap plug for anything
that you're doing right now. Absolutely well,
658
00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:00.440
thanks Rob, I appreciate that.
So right now, I got my
659
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:05.559
book Leadership Lessons in the Battle of
Gettysburg that's on Amazon, a digital copy
660
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:07.960
and a physical copy. I also
have a course of the same title on
661
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:12.519
you DEMI U D E M Y
dot com. I'll be posting up a
662
00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:17.480
crisis leadership course as well. And
right now, like for your AI needs,
663
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:21.719
I'm kind of forming a new enterprise
right now and we're doing some uh
664
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:23.719
basically, I got two different focus
points. One, we're doing some stuff
665
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:29.400
in the CBD space, helping with
quality assurance and that type of thing,
666
00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:32.519
and actually working with Ali Palmer on
that another one of our classmates. Uh
667
00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:36.079
that a company in a coleovation group, and we're going to be doing a
668
00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:39.280
lot of not cool things helping farmers
with using AI and stuff for anomaly detection,
669
00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:43.920
and then helping labs to better do
their processes. And then another thing
670
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:47.000
I'm doing right now with some data
scientists I work with the government. We're
671
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:52.000
kind of doing some AI stuff in
terms of helping businesses, is you know,
672
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:54.079
ad hoc things, helping them do
their AI infrastructure, building out things
673
00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:58.679
and this and that. So you
know, a lot of different things going
674
00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:01.239
in there. And then and uh, working on a project with Rich Fredericks
675
00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:07.199
as we're doing some stuff to help
people integrate technology and the work environments in
676
00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:09.119
space. So as you can see, I'm open to a lot of different
677
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:13.559
things. I got a lot of
irons in the fire and always building relationships
678
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:15.800
and so if the's anyone wants to
contact me for any of these projects,
679
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:17.480
or if you're just like, hey, there's something else you want me to
680
00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:21.760
take a look at, or I'm
always happy to have a conversation to help
681
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:24.159
people diagnose problems and or if you
know, you want to know, like
682
00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:27.599
how do you write a book for
example? You know, I'm happy to
683
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:30.079
help people at that, So always
interested in the conversation. All right,
684
00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:34.679
awesome, and again I thank you, appreciate it. I'm gonna i want
685
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:39.119
to set up a time for more
business like call after this, so I'll
686
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:43.119
shoot you a note. But I'm
definitely interested in some of those AI applications.
687
00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:45.360
Again, like we I really appreciate
you coming on. This has been
688
00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:50.599
this has been great. Like I
enjoyed doing this podcast, and like I
689
00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:53.400
said, I'm five episodes in,
but I'm learning a tremendous amount. And
690
00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:57.519
the other part of it is that
it's it's nice to see, you know,
691
00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:00.519
very different flavors of people and their
success. You know, and success
692
00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:05.000
is relative to you know, whomever
is who members in the middle of the
693
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:08.039
project. But I'm glad to see
that you're doing well. It's always cool
694
00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:13.239
to reach out and talk to a
classmate and h yeah, go Friar,
695
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:15.239
Yeah, go Friars. So thanks
for having me on. Rob roly appreciate
696
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:17.039
this. I love what you're doing
here. This is important. I think
697
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:20.840
it's good and getting all these different
voices in there, and I'll say just
698
00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:23.119
sort of one thing I will say
to people is your first thing you transition
699
00:39:23.159 --> 00:39:25.719
to after the military may not be
where you end up for a long time.
700
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:28.480
And don't be afraid, like,
you know, here's the thing.
701
00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:30.400
You're gonna take something because you have
the information at the time to make a
702
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:32.960
decision. You think this is great, then you're gonna get there. Maybe
703
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:35.880
you hate your boss, you hate
this, or this is not this,
704
00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:38.320
or this is not what I envisioned. Don't be afraid to you know what,
705
00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:42.719
maybe maybe I'm not where I need
to be. Don't don't don't suffer
706
00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:45.400
through this. This is not the
military. You're stuck in your PCs and
707
00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:47.119
you gotta wait two years to do
that. You can just kind of say,
708
00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:50.760
you know, you can do a
two weeks notice and say, you
709
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:52.119
know what, this is just not
a good fit for me, yeah,
710
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:55.000
or or even you know what,
I think I'm good in the organization,
711
00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:59.440
but I don't think this job I'm
doing right now is the best fit for
712
00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:01.400
me. Yeah, I know that. That was one of the first lessons
713
00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:04.920
that I was told when I was
on terminal leave. It's like, you
714
00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:08.440
don't owe them anything you know,
and unless you're assigned to a contract,
715
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:13.400
you do have the autonomy to move
on if you need to. And I
716
00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:16.320
think one of the things that Eric
said when we were talking is, you
717
00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:22.920
know, the the the pressure of
having employment as you're transitioning becomes your your
718
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:27.199
primary method of picking your job,
which shouldn't be and like you said,
719
00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:30.000
to be as best informed as you
can when you when you pull the trigger.
720
00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:34.199
And that starts, you know,
with all the education programs and resources
721
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:36.800
that are available to you, you
know, through the military. But the
722
00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:39.679
other part of it is your network
is important. Reach out to guys and
723
00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:44.480
gals that are doing the things that
like, oh, that seems interesting,
724
00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:46.159
Like I want to try that,
you know, and then reach out and
725
00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:49.639
be like, hey, Tom,
I hear you're you know, you're doing
726
00:40:49.639 --> 00:40:52.199
some leadership speaking. How do I
how do I get to that point?
727
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:54.159
Or is there something that I can
you know, assist you with so I
728
00:40:54.199 --> 00:40:57.960
can learn how to do this better? And I think, uh, you
729
00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:00.000
know, one of the things that
we have to do particular is folks that
730
00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:05.719
have stayed in for fifteen plus years
in the military is being able to eat
731
00:41:05.719 --> 00:41:08.800
that small piece of humble pie and
not be afraid to ask for assistance.
732
00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:14.519
Absolutely not. I mean that's the
thing. I'm always asking questions, always
733
00:41:15.159 --> 00:41:19.400
trying to learn something new and different, and it just keeps me fresh and
734
00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:21.800
keeps me growing. All right,
well, Tom, I'll let you go.
735
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:25.039
It's been all right, it's been
awesome. I appreciate it. Look
736
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:29.840
for this thing to go up probably
today a bit later in the afternoon,
737
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:34.760
but I appreciate your time. And
once again is Rob Robinson from the Philosophy
738
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.000
from the front Line podcast. All
see you on the high ground. Take
739
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:42.880
care, Rob. Thanks thanks for
listening to Philosophy from the front Line with
740
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:46.960
Rob Robinson. We will bring you
more interesting veteran transition stories, veteran afficacy,
741
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:52.119
and more information and veterance transition in
general on a podcast platform near you.
742
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:54.840
This is Philosophy from the front Line
and we'll see you on the high
743
00:41:54.840 --> 00:42:14.239
ground. Thanks