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I think it's important to be logical about the paths and the tools and the training that exist and what they cost.
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And also at the same time keep a really open mind about how that could turn out for you and what avenues might emerge that you haven't thought of yet and be willing to follow your instincts a little bit on the kinds of things that you can both feel like you could become good at and that you would enjoy.
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And then just explore the world and talk to everyone you can about how they can help you achieve that or what insight they might have that could help you realize a way to do something you actually enjoy in a sustainable way.
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Hi everyone and welcome to Path Found, the podcast about the real, messy, unexpected journeys that lead us to the work we love.
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I'm Monica Gandonia, and every week I talk with someone whose story proves there's no single right way to build a meaningful life.
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Elizabeth Minor started out in community organizing and grant writing and slowly started moving into multimedia for nonprofits.
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She wasn't planning on a design career, but after losing a couple of jobs to budget cuts that had nothing to do with her, she decided she'd rather bet on herself.
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She taught herself to build websites, went back to school for a second degree, and discovered in her words how much she didn't know she didn't know.
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Fifteen years later, she runs Silvermine Creative, where she designs brands and custom websites, and where she spent a lot of time thinking hard about what artificial intelligence is actually good for.
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In this conversation, part of our ongoing AI and career series, Elizabeth talks about the entry-level design jobs that are quietly disappearing, the skills she thinks will survive, the ethical trade-offs she's decided she can live with, and the several hours she once spent in Photoshop fixing the face of a bee.
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This is Pathfound.
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I'm so happy to have you here today, Elizabeth, and I'm looking forward to this conversation, especially because of this working relationship you and I've had now over the past few months, and we can talk about that.
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But like I start with everybody, give us a little bit of your background and how you got here.
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So I've been working in the general like marketing and communications space for most of my career.
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I started out in the nonprofit sector doing a lot of community organizing and then moved into grant writing and then into other types of communications for nonprofits and started to get into a little bit of multimedia things for them.
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And then after, you know, losing a couple of successive nonprofit jobs to cutbacks and things that were beyond my control, I decided that I wanted to work for myself.
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And so I started out first just sort of as a self-taught website builder and designer, and eventually went back to school for a second degree in design and found out how much I didn't know I didn't know and got a lot better.
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And so I have owned my own business doing that for close to 15 years now.
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And my emphasis is on brand design and general graphic design and custom websites.
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So when you first started, did you know kind of that was what you wanted to do?
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Like what did you do in college?
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In college, I studied anthropology, which did inform a lot for me in terms of just understanding people and how to speak to different kinds of people, which sorts of things are somewhat universal, which things are really specific to culture.
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And so all of that's been really useful to me.
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I didn't know for sure that I would go into an artistic field with it, but I've always enjoyed art and creative pursuits as well.
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So it did make a lot of sense together.
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And when I had a chance to work with more than just language, but with presentation and visuals in my previous jobs, I always liked those tasks the best.
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So it wasn't a huge leap from there to move in that direction.
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So when you started your own business, how was that?
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It was a little tricky at first.
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I was definitely kind of winging it and teaching myself a lot as I went.
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And I chose smart, you know, clients to work with who I knew that I could deliver good work for them.
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But I it took me forever because I had to sort of learn by doing.
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It took a long time to execute any projects.
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And, you know, when I did get a chance to get feedback from people with more experience, I realized how much more there was to learn.
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And so I was definitely eager to just fill in those gaps and raise my skill level a little bit.
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So in the beginning, so 15 years ago, that is pre-AI, how have you seen your industry change over the last 15 years?
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I think the tools have become much more sophisticated.
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And I'm glad that I got in when I did, because they already felt extremely sophisticated when I started, but they've definitely become more complex now.
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And there's been sort of a branching off with the tools where a lot of tools then came on the market to allow, you know, anyone to do design.
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And that had a big impact on our industry too, because people sort of lost track of the difference between tools and the expertise about why things work and, you know, how to put them together successfully and make effective work.
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So I definitely felt a little bit of a heat from that.
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But the clients that I was working with understood that they will still wanted a human who had actually studied this stuff at the helm using those tools.
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But that was a big shift for our industry.
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And then, of course, the AI shift is even more empowering to people to create things on their own, but it's also causing a sort of a proliferation of stuff that isn't really the best example of what could be done.
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And it's hard when that's the sea that you're swimming in and what your potential clients are seeing all around them.
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It becomes a challenge of really reminding them what training is worth and what the human element can bring that those tools and machines can't replicate.
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So when you talk about web design and going back 15 years and you know how it's changed, what goes into that on your end?
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What are all the steps?
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What are the things that, you know, in layperson language, what goes into that?
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So there's a whole bunch of research and conversation before we even start building to get at what distinguishes this brand from, you know, everything else that people will be seeing when they go to search for them.
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What can we sort of draw out and really enhance and make a signature of the brand experience?
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So a lot of it is the brand strategy and how that's going to translate into the website.
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And sometimes I get people coming to me who haven't really thought through a lot of that yet.
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So there's a lot of like establishing what the brand is all about up front.
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And then we get into thinking about okay, how do we translate that into an online experience for people?
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And then the second phase is kind of to mock up what the site can look like in tools that are offline, just to make sure that we're not spending a lot of time building things we don't want and that we have the general look and plan figured out.
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And then I go into actually designing and building in web publishing tools.
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And I use WordPress primarily.
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I use Elementor Pro, WordPress Builder to design pages and layouts.
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And then I've been building kind of a library of those individual pieces that I can customize differently for each client to make sure that they're getting something that looks really unique to them, but that I can build in an efficient way.
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So how long does it take you to build a typical website?
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So one of my fun little quirks of my brain is that I'm very bad at estimating how long something will take.
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I have to like observe myself and do a lot of math to estimate that.
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But I would say the quickest that I've gotten something up for somebody that just needed a simple kind of landing page and they knew exactly what it needed to do and roughly what it needed to look like.
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You can get, you know, something up in a week or two.
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But I've also spent three months or more with people on their websites.
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And when they're big and involved like that, I like to do it in phases.
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So I'll say, why don't we, you know, agree on this baseline plan for what the design looks like and these core functions that we need most and publish that when we're happy with it, and then build out sort of a phase two of the nice to haves and the more extensive content that starts to frame them and help them become more visible and do it in phases if it's a longer, more complex project.
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Okay.
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And now how has AI changed that?
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AI has allowed me to customize even more for people, even who might not have had the budget for me to do that before or the time for me to do that before, because I can write custom code to make things behave and look exactly the way I want them to and make them more distinctive.
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It's certainly helped me enormously with troubleshooting because all of the design tools that I'm using are constantly evolving, and the functions that they have are so numerous that I'm always having to still do new things that I haven't done before or that have changed.
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So the AI really helps me work through that stuff a lot faster, just the technical how do I get this done well and fast.
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It helps with copywriting to an extent for outlining or for making my own language more concise.
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Brevity is not my strong suit.
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So I like to get all of my ideas and creativity down and then have it help me clean that up.
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And I've used it to a limited degree for imaging, especially for clients that maybe don't have many photos yet.
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They might be developing a new product, they might be working with an audience that is sensitive or underage, or it's a medical scenario and they can't provide photos of their real clients.
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So I have used AI and built some profiles that really describe their brand and the purpose of the photography, and then made some photo sets for them that kind of visually tell their story exactly the way we want and look at least more unique and real than stock photography would.
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But I tend to turn to that when it either enables me to do something that is otherwise impossible or when we just don't have the assets to work with from another method rather than having it be my default.
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So as a small business, as a single per right, it's only you.
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Yeah, I mean I I've worked with subcontractors when I needed different skill sets or extra help, but the yes, it's my business is me primarily.
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It's been beneficial.
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Yes.
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It's made it easier for this to even be a viable way to earn a living because I can spend so much more time on the creative stuff and automate or just get help with the practical stuff that used to eat up days at a time.
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Where do you see it not being helpful?
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I don't think that any large language model is ever going to be great at coming up with the core visual concept to communicate a brand's identity and culture and story because it just doesn't have those associations.
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It doesn't really understand what it's making and why it works.
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It just understands what we're asking for and what the greatest number of people on the internet so far has considered a satisfactory answer to that request.
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And then it sort of averages all of those findings.
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So you're getting something that's sort of like the lowest common denominator almost of every example of what you've talked about.
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It can't come up with something completely original by itself.
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So, and the whole point of branding is differentiation, right?
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You're trying not to look like everybody who came before you.
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So I don't think it's helpful for that.
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And I don't think it ever will be with the way that our current AI is made, because that's just a limitation of how it works.
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It's predictive.
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So it has to reference only what's come before.
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But it can be helpful for doing research in branding.
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It can be helpful for making specific components that I will then use my own tools and put together into something that is much more efficient and cleaner than what I could have done if I started with a blank page.
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So if I'm starting my own business and I need a website, what would you tell me why I shouldn't go to AI and have it build me a website, especially if I'm on a small budget?
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I think in order to get the kind of result that you would deserve and want from AI in that situation, you would have to spend so much time training your AI and training yourself on how to actually coach it to deliver something that is gonna resonate with the right people, that is gonna understand the psychology of the person and the journey that they're taking through the site, and that is gonna produce visuals that look like they belong on a professional website that it would not be worthwhile.
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So if you go in and just give it a very cursory request, what you're gonna get is gonna, you're gonna outgrow it really fast.
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You're gonna start to find flaws with it and not know exactly how to fix them because you didn't build it.
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And I think you'd end up spending as much time to get something inferior, agree to allow AI to be used in the process, but have somebody steering that who has already trained in AI on websites and built a lot of modules that they've tested and know work and that has also thought about, you know, the psychology and the user journey and all of these things that go into making visual design actually effective.
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And I will confirm that.
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I mean, I obviously, you know, I've worked with you, you've built my website for me.
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I can attest that yes, we spent several months figuring out even what it was going to look like.
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What did I want to put out there?
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I mean, you asked me questions that I wouldn't have thought about.
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And so I yeah, there's definitely a lot more in it than just the mechanics behind that webpage.
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And I see that part.
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You don't think that'll get better?
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I think some elements of it will get better.
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And a lot of it, you know, once you learn the tools, the the tools are already there.
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But I think that, like I said, that element of understanding a human's reaction to what they see is something that the AI isn't really able to do.
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And a lot of the fine-tuning is difficult for it too, because it can't see the work coming together while it's doing it and then make adjustments to make it better.
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You know, it creates one big massive formula based on what you've said and what it's been trained with, and then it executes that formula and that's the product.
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And some of them have now allowed for a step where they reevaluate the output and refine it and then give it back to you.
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But they still can't look at an image, you know, of a model for the clothing you're selling in like a weird position and think like, ooh, that looks painful and unnatural.
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Like it just can't tell that, right, you know, and it can't, you know, make a choice between two design directions that we might go based on which one just really grabs you and the other one just doesn't.
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And so I think there will always be room for humans to steer the AI and get much better results than what it can do on its own, just because of those limitations of being a human and having a body and having relationships and associations from your own history and all of those things that come into your reaction to what you see in front of you that aren't really simulatable.
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So I think it will replace a lot of lower level design careers and it already is.
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But I think that the ones that do remain important and intact are the ones where someone is sort of thinking on the art direction level about the big picture and identifying what works and what doesn't, and then making those last level of refinements themselves to make sure that everything makes sense to a human.
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So when you're talking about the lower level positions, and you know, someone listening to this who wants to go into this industry, what are those positions that you think will be replaced?
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And then what would you tell people how to prepare for that?
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I think that the entry-level positions that used to be fairly numerous in terms of just like we need to produce a newsletter every week and it needs to be neat and laid out and have the branding the same, and you need to put all the photos and the images in, that just sort of like executing straightforward work.
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I think some people will still be doing it, but because they'll have AI tools to help them, they won't need as many of those people.
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So those jobs will probably be reduced and are already being reduced from what I hear for people who are looking for jobs to be in-house designers.
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I think people that were making a lot of money off of producing stock graphics and images and things like that may find it harder because people can create more original stuff now by asking the AI to make exactly what they want instead of searching for hours for a close proximity.
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And I think anyone entering this field will really want to focus on making sure they understand how the AI tools actually work and what they're great for and what they're bad for, and then really teaching themselves to think conceptually from a higher level viewpoint about the big picture of the purpose of the work that they're producing and how it's gonna help their client actually achieve their goals rather than the minutiae of how to execute what they're told to do, because that's the skill set that we can't really replace.
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So some of those lower level positions and jobs that you were talking about, those help you build experience and kind of get to those upper level positions.
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How do you solve that problem if there aren't people doing those jobs anymore, or you're coming right out of college and you want to get into this industry, you can't break in as the art director.
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How do you see that transition?
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That part is tricky and it may involve, and this has always been an issue for designers, but doing a little bit of work that's just passion projects that's about, you know, really cultivating the skill sets that you want to use the most and that you know that there's a market for and feel you could do well, and doing some examples, experimenting with all of the tools, learning from your AI about how to use it better and having work to showcase that, you know, shows that level of thinking and that level of practice, even if it isn't churning out a newsletter every week for a company.
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But it's tricky, it's not gonna be easy, it's not gonna employ as many people.
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So it may end up being a smaller and more specialized industry than it used to be.
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And I think that I wouldn't get into it now if I wasn't willing or able to put in the extra time to become that person who can think on that level and direct things on that level.
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And what you take in from others, the just doing the research into, you know, the principles of visual design, if a degree is not in the cards for you, you still need to understand design principles, gestalt psychology, the basics of typography, the basics of color theory, really like educating yourself about the things that make designs effective and powerful rather than just how to execute them.
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And I think all that, all those other experiences that really speaks to you don't have to major in art to do this.
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You don't have to major in design, that there's so many other fields that feed into this.
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Adjacent, yes.
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And, you know, sometimes the art director person hasn't had a lot of experience actually executing things in Adobe Illustrator.
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They may just really gravitate towards visual storytelling and have a different background that made them good at that.
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Like they took film classes or, you know, they painted, or it just is something that they naturally find that they're good at.
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And the technician part becomes less important.
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But it is important to understand those principles that allow us to make designs that work with our psychology and our subconscious and our emotional responses, and the way that our brains just parse a lot of information and understand it and remember it.
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That stuff you do need to know, whether you get it from a degree program or a different online course or from reading lots of, you know, books and things, you do need to learn that stuff.
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So, what do you think?
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You know, you kind of said what AI is not good at.
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What do you think it's bad for or bad in general?
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There are definite downsides.
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There are huge issues.
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And I think any designer that is not wrestling with those is doing a disservice to themselves, but also kind of the legacy that we're creating here.
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So using AI at all requires us to kind of embrace a paradox where, on one hand, it has a giant environmental footprint, and the development of it is fairly opaque and really convoluted.
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And the people making it and the people who are using it are scrambling to kind of understand what it can even do and what the risks are, and then govern those and with no precedent.
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We're just making it up as we go.
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So, you know, we have to wrestle with that.
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And then at the same time, these tools are empowering creatives to spend much more time being creative and not wasting their time on mundane tasks that don't matter.
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And it's allowing people like me who want to serve small businesses and entrepreneurs and nonprofits as well as the big guys to really help them grow their impact in a way that maybe they couldn't have afforded before or we couldn't have done before.
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So I just try to use it in a way that is aware of both of those things and is efficient and intentional.
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So looking at, you know, which provider am I giving my money to?
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I recently did start migrating a lot of my stuff, my early Chat GPT work, over to Claude, partly because I don't feel that corporations should be making massive donations to super PECs, especially when they're funding opposition to a lot of the sustainability and social accountability measures that I feel are really important and that my clients definitely feel are important.
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And then in terms of how I use it, I think the best way that we can avoid, you know, ripping off other people's intellectual property and artistic work is by controlling the inputs.
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So when you ask AI to generate something for you, an image or a visual, you can provide references or you can just let it come up with whatever it knows from what it's been trained on.
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And so I try to iterate the projects in steps where I'm just asking for pieces at a time, and then I'll put them all together.
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And I'm trying to provide as much of the reference material as possible myself, or source it from places that I know have not stolen it, that are in the public.
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domain or that have been authorized for that kind of use.
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So that it's really still my editorial process that's leading the thing and that I'm from like providing as much as possible of the raw material that it's working with so that it's not just going off and having a free-for-all on the internet and coming up with something that's ripped off.
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So there are ways to mitigate those downsides, but they do exist.
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And I think designers who have a conscience about it are the ones that really need to stay informed about how these tools work, what they can do, what they can't do, what the options are if you want to use them responsibly, and to really speak up.
00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:44.559
Like get in those forums and say what you want to say about how it's generating work for you.
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:47.039
Ask questions about how it was trained.
00:22:47.200 --> 00:23:00.559
You know, Adobe as of 2026 says that they are still training all of their generative AI and tech on art that was authorized for that use where the artists were compensated or gave permission to use it that way or both.
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:07.440
So I try to start there at least and do as much as I can in platforms that have a little bit more of an ethical guardrail.
00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:10.160
Do you think the pros outweigh the cons?
00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:19.359
I sort of feel like that I don't have a choice but to use it to some degree or I would just be out of the industry and my spot will be filled by somebody who doesn't have, you know, a moral compass.
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:21.039
So I choose to stay.
00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:31.680
I think for me individually the pros way outweigh the cons, but that's often the case that things are helpful and convenient to us individually and that makes it easier to ignore the big picture.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:38.160
I have a feeling that the negative consequences we're still just starting to see what some of those will be.
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:44.880
And I have a feeling that others that you know we're really doomsday about won't ever come to be that bad.
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:54.640
But I think it's really hard for us to predict we're really in pretty uncharted territory as far as you know what the ultimate impact of whether it will be more positive or more negative for humanity.
00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:58.000
I've seen it go both ways even just in my own efforts.
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:11.680
So you know a lot of students right now are really pushing back on the idea of AI, some for environmental reasons and sustainability, some because they're afraid this is going to take jobs.
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:26.480
But on the other hand, you know everybody I've talked to whether for this podcast or just you know personal conversations who are working in industries all say that the number one thing students have to do is learn how to use it and use it well.
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:30.319
And so that's a really hard part of all this, right?
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:38.559
So there's these cons and you're recognizing them, but you're also saying, but you if you don't use them then you fall behind.
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:39.039
Right.
00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:47.839
And I think that there's a misconception out there among people that haven't really used them for these types of purposes before that you can just like that it replaces you doing any work.
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:50.480
You know, and you just say AI, make me this and it does.
00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:55.440
And if they try that for a little while they'll see how absurdly bad those results are.
00:24:55.599 --> 00:25:13.519
So I mean I've spent several hours working on one image that was like a key header image for my website of like a BN flower that was sort of used metaphorically for branding and the idea of like attracting just the right person for your specific brand, which is why flowers are so beautiful, right?
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:28.799
And so I first I used the AI to do a little research on types of flowers that are also like naturally occur in my brand colors, you know, and then I sourced a bunch of images of those from sources that I knew I felt comfortable taking images from instead of just wherever.
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:35.599
And then you know we put that together and then we added the bee and it was like oh my God this bee is like tripping me out.
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:36.319
He's horrible.
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.559
He was like looking at me weirdly over his shoulder which I don't think bees can even do.
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:54.799
And so I had to take that into Photoshop and like you know manipulate the face back towards the flower and change the lighting so that it looked like it was reflecting off the flower and put a little blur on the wings so it looked like it was flying and not just floating there.
00:25:54.960 --> 00:26:10.720
So it was still easier than me going to India and photographing plumerias when the bees were out, but it was not by any means like removing the work or the effort or the you know editorial decision making that I was doing to make this thing happen.
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:36.640
So I think if people can learn to integrate it and to actually use their own thoughts and words to tell the AI very specifically what you want and why, instead of just using references, you know, that you can mitigate a lot of the ethical problems with it and you can also make yourself still a valuable asset in the field because of your own original ideas and you know decision making and discernment and keep your job.
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:39.519
And it can get you in trouble if you aren't thoughtful about it.
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:49.279
When you can show your work and that you know it came from your own thoughts and that you were asking for specific things for specific reasons that actually protects you legally a lot better too.
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:57.680
So if I had a brand that just said like oh we want you to make an avatar of our ideal client and she's an Oprah type like I'm not gonna go to AI and type Oprah.
00:26:57.759 --> 00:26:59.279
I'm not gonna say the name ever.
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:19.039
You know I'm gonna ask that client like what do you think it is about Oprah that your clients like can you think of other people that are well known that they also would like you know and then I might show them 20 pictures and be like which of these look the most like what you're looking for and why and then I might ask the AI to describe what all these four pictures have in common.
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:26.000
And then I might write a prompt using what I liked from what the AI told me all those photos had and then put that back in.
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:26.799
You know what I mean?
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:41.039
And then you're never saying Oprah you're saying I want a diverse representation of mature women who are self-possessed and stylish and the brand tone is authoritative but also warm.
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:50.559
And you know here are some examples that I already mocked up of not real people and then let it give me something and you know it's going to turn out a lot better.
00:27:50.720 --> 00:28:00.319
But that's a skill set that takes you know a day and a lot of thought and that's the kind of skill that I would work on cultivating if I wanted to have any kind of job using AI.
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:01.200
That's excellent.
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:11.200
Okay so a young person comes to you they're in college they really like doing this kind of stuff that this is what they want to make their career.
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:12.319
What do you tell them?
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:14.880
Because you just said that there's gonna be less jobs.
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:16.400
There are, yes.
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:43.440
I think I would tell them to get more specific earlier on about you know a feasible role that they want to work towards rather than just assuming once I've completed X education, I'll just start implying for things on Indeed and I'll get one of them to be more deliberate about it, to think about projects they could do even just on their own to really showcase exactly what they want to do and then to just stay really involved with the tools and understanding how they work so that they feel caught up.
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:53.039
And when they do get hired by someone because they've said that they know how to use AI, they mean that they know how to use you know recent versions to do things that people actually need.
00:28:53.119 --> 00:29:06.480
And just yeah be really thinking about that specific career design that they would like to have rather than just assuming degree leads to applications leads to you know my first job and then I just work my way through different jobs till they're better.
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:07.039
Right.
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:10.240
So and what about starting your own business?
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:14.160
What advice would you give people going in that direction?
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:40.160
Yeah I would say have some diversity in your income in the beginning some other things to fall back on or do part-time or maybe it's one sort of boring contract but it pays the bills so that you don't stress yourself out because it is if you're working for yourself there's going to be income fluctuation especially if you aren't really into making reproducible things or courses for other designers or those kinds of things that you can just sell on repeat.
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:42.960
If you want to do custom work, there's going to be fluctuation.
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:47.519
So I wish that well I sort of was into other stuff at the time that I started out.
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:56.079
So I did have some other income streams but when I really went to make this business my only income stream, I faced that kind of stress all over again.
00:29:56.240 --> 00:30:01.119
When I removed those other pieces I realized like oh if I have a dip, it's like I really feel it.
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:13.680
So planning for that in a smart way and trying not to be resentful about you know the work that you do on the side to have time and to be able to afford to do this too and to start thinking early and thinking big about money.
00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:16.000
I wish that I had done that a little bit more.
00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:25.119
I think I didn't want to think about it being oh it's for the money but there's no reason that we should hold ourselves back either just because we're in a creative field.
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.279
You know, inflation moves fast.
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:33.519
Expenses of life and expenses of running a business are increasing faster than a lot of our salaries are increasing.
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:43.519
So looking at your numbers, trying to rid yourself of the emotional baggage around money to the extent that you can, that's been a challenge for me that I continue to work on.
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:55.279
But it's a necessary thing to be able to face and deal with if you want to be in business for yourself or even in a small business with a few partners or a few employees that you have the pressure of paying them too.
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:59.680
So where do you see yourself then in five years, 10 years?
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.079
I'd like to be able to hire more help.
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:03.119
That would be lovely.
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:08.799
And I would like to get increasingly targeted about the clients that I'm working with.
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:12.640
Environmental and social justice issues have always been really important to me.
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:23.200
I worked on those issues a lot in my nonprofit career and I want to work with companies and nonprofits that are helping to advance that stuff even more than I already am.
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:31.359
And so each time I sort of iterate on my own brand, I'm trying more and more to sort of speak to that audience and let them know they're in the right place.
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:47.440
And I'd like to be able to give back more to you know have more money that I could contribute to causes that I feel strongly about, have more opportunity to pitch them work to help them advance something important, even if it's not a big profit thing for me, because I have room to do that.
00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:53.599
So those would be considerable you know measures that I haven't quite fully achieved yet that I want to see happen.
00:31:53.759 --> 00:32:00.559
And you know I could stand to level up a few things in terms of ever like paying myself and enjoying money a little bit.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:16.480
We've adopted a pretty minimalist lifestyle that most of the time I really enjoy but once in a while I'd like to be able to say yes to some bigger things that I think when I bring on some more help under me, I'll be more equipped to do just because I can deliver work faster and without compromising on quality.
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:20.400
Any last advice for young adults listening?
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:28.640
For young adults listening, I think it's going to be advice that they probably hear from a lot of your guests which is what we were just talking about.
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:38.000
There are so many paths that when you start over designing your track ahead of time, it almost really limits you and puts you in a box that didn't need to be there.
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:45.519
And so I think it's important to be logical about the paths and the tools and the training that exist and what they cost.
00:32:45.599 --> 00:33:17.680
And also at the same time, on the other hand, keep a really open mind about how that could turn out for you and what you know avenues might emerge that you haven't thought of yet and be willing to you know follow your instincts a little bit on the kinds of things that you can both feel like you could become good at and that you would enjoy and then just explore the world and talk to everyone you can about how they can help you achieve that or what insight they might have that that could help you realize a way to do something you actually enjoy in a sustainable way.
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:18.319
Nice.
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:19.920
Where can people find you?
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:28.000
I am at silverminecreative studio that's my main website and link to my portfolio and then I'm also on LinkedIn.
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:32.400
I'm not super active right now but I'm there under Elizabeth Minor, M-I-N-E-R.
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:35.680
So those are probably the best two places to find me.
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:44.640
And you can look up keystoneetwork.org and also see your work you also did the Pathfound logo and that was a fun one.
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:46.880
Yes it's been a great partnership.
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:51.599
Elizabeth thank you so much I really appreciate you taking the time today to talk with us.
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:56.480
Of course thank you for having me and for giving me the opportunity to work on all of your projects with you.
00:33:56.559 --> 00:33:58.480
They've been really fulfilling and great.
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:01.200
Thank you so much for listening to Pathfound.
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:09.679
If anything we talked about today connected with you or gave you a new perspective we'd love it if you subscribed left a review or shared the episode with someone you care about.
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:12.800
You can also find us on Instagram at Pathfound Podcast.
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:17.760
To explore more stories, resources and ways to get involved visit Keystoneetwork.org.
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:26.800
This podcast is just one part of the journey at Keystone Network for helping young people and anyone figuring it out as they go build meaningful futures one step at a time.
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:36.079
A huge thank you to my podcast editor David Strut you can find him on LinkedIn for helping bring these stories to life and to Elizabeth Minor at Silvermine Creative for the beautiful artwork and web design.
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:42.800
And if you're on your own path navigating the unknown making a pivot or simply figuring it out as you go just know you're not alone.
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:45.519
The route may not be linear but there's always a way forward.
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:49.280
I'm Monica Argandonia and I'll see you next time on Path Found
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:06.719
I think it's important to be logical about the paths and the tools and the training that exist and what they cost.
00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:22.320
And also at the same time keep a really open mind about how that could turn out for you and what avenues might emerge that you haven't thought of yet and be willing to follow your instincts a little bit on the kinds of things that you can both feel like you could become good at and that you would enjoy.
00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:35.759
And then just explore the world and talk to everyone you can about how they can help you achieve that or what insight they might have that could help you realize a way to do something you actually enjoy in a sustainable way.
00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:43.039
Hi everyone and welcome to Path Found, the podcast about the real, messy, unexpected journeys that lead us to the work we love.
00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:49.920
I'm Monica Gandonia, and every week I talk with someone whose story proves there's no single right way to build a meaningful life.
00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:58.719
Elizabeth Minor started out in community organizing and grant writing and slowly started moving into multimedia for nonprofits.
00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:07.120
She wasn't planning on a design career, but after losing a couple of jobs to budget cuts that had nothing to do with her, she decided she'd rather bet on herself.
00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:15.280
She taught herself to build websites, went back to school for a second degree, and discovered in her words how much she didn't know she didn't know.
00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:26.400
Fifteen years later, she runs Silvermine Creative, where she designs brands and custom websites, and where she spent a lot of time thinking hard about what artificial intelligence is actually good for.
00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:43.920
In this conversation, part of our ongoing AI and career series, Elizabeth talks about the entry-level design jobs that are quietly disappearing, the skills she thinks will survive, the ethical trade-offs she's decided she can live with, and the several hours she once spent in Photoshop fixing the face of a bee.
00:01:44.079 --> 00:01:45.280
This is Pathfound.
00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:56.159
I'm so happy to have you here today, Elizabeth, and I'm looking forward to this conversation, especially because of this working relationship you and I've had now over the past few months, and we can talk about that.
00:01:56.319 --> 00:02:00.799
But like I start with everybody, give us a little bit of your background and how you got here.
00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:07.840
So I've been working in the general like marketing and communications space for most of my career.
00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:20.960
I started out in the nonprofit sector doing a lot of community organizing and then moved into grant writing and then into other types of communications for nonprofits and started to get into a little bit of multimedia things for them.
00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:31.919
And then after, you know, losing a couple of successive nonprofit jobs to cutbacks and things that were beyond my control, I decided that I wanted to work for myself.
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And so I started out first just sort of as a self-taught website builder and designer, and eventually went back to school for a second degree in design and found out how much I didn't know I didn't know and got a lot better.
00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:49.120
And so I have owned my own business doing that for close to 15 years now.
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And my emphasis is on brand design and general graphic design and custom websites.
00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:59.120
So when you first started, did you know kind of that was what you wanted to do?
00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:00.719
Like what did you do in college?
00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:15.199
In college, I studied anthropology, which did inform a lot for me in terms of just understanding people and how to speak to different kinds of people, which sorts of things are somewhat universal, which things are really specific to culture.
00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:17.599
And so all of that's been really useful to me.
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I didn't know for sure that I would go into an artistic field with it, but I've always enjoyed art and creative pursuits as well.
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So it did make a lot of sense together.
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And when I had a chance to work with more than just language, but with presentation and visuals in my previous jobs, I always liked those tasks the best.
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So it wasn't a huge leap from there to move in that direction.
00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:41.520
So when you started your own business, how was that?
00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:43.439
It was a little tricky at first.
00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:47.280
I was definitely kind of winging it and teaching myself a lot as I went.
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And I chose smart, you know, clients to work with who I knew that I could deliver good work for them.
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But I it took me forever because I had to sort of learn by doing.
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It took a long time to execute any projects.
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And, you know, when I did get a chance to get feedback from people with more experience, I realized how much more there was to learn.
00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:11.520
And so I was definitely eager to just fill in those gaps and raise my skill level a little bit.
00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:20.560
So in the beginning, so 15 years ago, that is pre-AI, how have you seen your industry change over the last 15 years?
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I think the tools have become much more sophisticated.
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And I'm glad that I got in when I did, because they already felt extremely sophisticated when I started, but they've definitely become more complex now.
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And there's been sort of a branching off with the tools where a lot of tools then came on the market to allow, you know, anyone to do design.
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And that had a big impact on our industry too, because people sort of lost track of the difference between tools and the expertise about why things work and, you know, how to put them together successfully and make effective work.
00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:57.519
So I definitely felt a little bit of a heat from that.
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But the clients that I was working with understood that they will still wanted a human who had actually studied this stuff at the helm using those tools.
00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:07.839
But that was a big shift for our industry.
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And then, of course, the AI shift is even more empowering to people to create things on their own, but it's also causing a sort of a proliferation of stuff that isn't really the best example of what could be done.
00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:26.959
And it's hard when that's the sea that you're swimming in and what your potential clients are seeing all around them.
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It becomes a challenge of really reminding them what training is worth and what the human element can bring that those tools and machines can't replicate.
00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:45.519
So when you talk about web design and going back 15 years and you know how it's changed, what goes into that on your end?
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What are all the steps?
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What are the things that, you know, in layperson language, what goes into that?
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So there's a whole bunch of research and conversation before we even start building to get at what distinguishes this brand from, you know, everything else that people will be seeing when they go to search for them.
00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:10.079
What can we sort of draw out and really enhance and make a signature of the brand experience?
00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:13.839
So a lot of it is the brand strategy and how that's going to translate into the website.
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And sometimes I get people coming to me who haven't really thought through a lot of that yet.
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So there's a lot of like establishing what the brand is all about up front.
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And then we get into thinking about okay, how do we translate that into an online experience for people?
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And then the second phase is kind of to mock up what the site can look like in tools that are offline, just to make sure that we're not spending a lot of time building things we don't want and that we have the general look and plan figured out.
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And then I go into actually designing and building in web publishing tools.
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And I use WordPress primarily.
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I use Elementor Pro, WordPress Builder to design pages and layouts.
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And then I've been building kind of a library of those individual pieces that I can customize differently for each client to make sure that they're getting something that looks really unique to them, but that I can build in an efficient way.
00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:10.800
So how long does it take you to build a typical website?
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So one of my fun little quirks of my brain is that I'm very bad at estimating how long something will take.
00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:20.480
I have to like observe myself and do a lot of math to estimate that.
00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:29.839
But I would say the quickest that I've gotten something up for somebody that just needed a simple kind of landing page and they knew exactly what it needed to do and roughly what it needed to look like.
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You can get, you know, something up in a week or two.
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But I've also spent three months or more with people on their websites.
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And when they're big and involved like that, I like to do it in phases.
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So I'll say, why don't we, you know, agree on this baseline plan for what the design looks like and these core functions that we need most and publish that when we're happy with it, and then build out sort of a phase two of the nice to haves and the more extensive content that starts to frame them and help them become more visible and do it in phases if it's a longer, more complex project.
00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:04.879
Okay.
00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:07.600
And now how has AI changed that?
00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:24.160
AI has allowed me to customize even more for people, even who might not have had the budget for me to do that before or the time for me to do that before, because I can write custom code to make things behave and look exactly the way I want them to and make them more distinctive.
00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:37.440
It's certainly helped me enormously with troubleshooting because all of the design tools that I'm using are constantly evolving, and the functions that they have are so numerous that I'm always having to still do new things that I haven't done before or that have changed.
00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:43.440
So the AI really helps me work through that stuff a lot faster, just the technical how do I get this done well and fast.
00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:50.879
It helps with copywriting to an extent for outlining or for making my own language more concise.
00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:52.639
Brevity is not my strong suit.
00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:56.960
So I like to get all of my ideas and creativity down and then have it help me clean that up.
00:08:57.120 --> 00:09:03.759
And I've used it to a limited degree for imaging, especially for clients that maybe don't have many photos yet.
00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:14.159
They might be developing a new product, they might be working with an audience that is sensitive or underage, or it's a medical scenario and they can't provide photos of their real clients.
00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:30.240
So I have used AI and built some profiles that really describe their brand and the purpose of the photography, and then made some photo sets for them that kind of visually tell their story exactly the way we want and look at least more unique and real than stock photography would.
00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:41.840
But I tend to turn to that when it either enables me to do something that is otherwise impossible or when we just don't have the assets to work with from another method rather than having it be my default.
00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:46.240
So as a small business, as a single per right, it's only you.
00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:54.320
Yeah, I mean I I've worked with subcontractors when I needed different skill sets or extra help, but the yes, it's my business is me primarily.
00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:55.759
It's been beneficial.
00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:56.320
Yes.
00:09:56.559 --> 00:10:09.120
It's made it easier for this to even be a viable way to earn a living because I can spend so much more time on the creative stuff and automate or just get help with the practical stuff that used to eat up days at a time.
00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:12.480
Where do you see it not being helpful?
00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:28.240
I don't think that any large language model is ever going to be great at coming up with the core visual concept to communicate a brand's identity and culture and story because it just doesn't have those associations.
00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:32.080
It doesn't really understand what it's making and why it works.
00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:41.039
It just understands what we're asking for and what the greatest number of people on the internet so far has considered a satisfactory answer to that request.
00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:44.000
And then it sort of averages all of those findings.
00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:50.960
So you're getting something that's sort of like the lowest common denominator almost of every example of what you've talked about.
00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:53.919
It can't come up with something completely original by itself.
00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:57.519
So, and the whole point of branding is differentiation, right?
00:10:57.679 --> 00:11:00.240
You're trying not to look like everybody who came before you.
00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:02.240
So I don't think it's helpful for that.
00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:08.799
And I don't think it ever will be with the way that our current AI is made, because that's just a limitation of how it works.
00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:09.679
It's predictive.
00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:12.399
So it has to reference only what's come before.
00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:15.519
But it can be helpful for doing research in branding.
00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:27.679
It can be helpful for making specific components that I will then use my own tools and put together into something that is much more efficient and cleaner than what I could have done if I started with a blank page.
00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:41.759
So if I'm starting my own business and I need a website, what would you tell me why I shouldn't go to AI and have it build me a website, especially if I'm on a small budget?
00:11:42.159 --> 00:12:11.919
I think in order to get the kind of result that you would deserve and want from AI in that situation, you would have to spend so much time training your AI and training yourself on how to actually coach it to deliver something that is gonna resonate with the right people, that is gonna understand the psychology of the person and the journey that they're taking through the site, and that is gonna produce visuals that look like they belong on a professional website that it would not be worthwhile.
00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:19.600
So if you go in and just give it a very cursory request, what you're gonna get is gonna, you're gonna outgrow it really fast.
00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:24.639
You're gonna start to find flaws with it and not know exactly how to fix them because you didn't build it.
00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:49.440
And I think you'd end up spending as much time to get something inferior, agree to allow AI to be used in the process, but have somebody steering that who has already trained in AI on websites and built a lot of modules that they've tested and know work and that has also thought about, you know, the psychology and the user journey and all of these things that go into making visual design actually effective.
00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:51.200
And I will confirm that.
00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:56.320
I mean, I obviously, you know, I've worked with you, you've built my website for me.
00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:02.000
I can attest that yes, we spent several months figuring out even what it was going to look like.
00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:03.360
What did I want to put out there?
00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:07.039
I mean, you asked me questions that I wouldn't have thought about.
00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:14.080
And so I yeah, there's definitely a lot more in it than just the mechanics behind that webpage.
00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:15.919
And I see that part.
00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:17.679
You don't think that'll get better?
00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.399
I think some elements of it will get better.
00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:24.720
And a lot of it, you know, once you learn the tools, the the tools are already there.
00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:34.559
But I think that, like I said, that element of understanding a human's reaction to what they see is something that the AI isn't really able to do.
00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:42.720
And a lot of the fine-tuning is difficult for it too, because it can't see the work coming together while it's doing it and then make adjustments to make it better.
00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:50.879
You know, it creates one big massive formula based on what you've said and what it's been trained with, and then it executes that formula and that's the product.
00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:58.960
And some of them have now allowed for a step where they reevaluate the output and refine it and then give it back to you.
00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:08.000
But they still can't look at an image, you know, of a model for the clothing you're selling in like a weird position and think like, ooh, that looks painful and unnatural.
00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:20.080
Like it just can't tell that, right, you know, and it can't, you know, make a choice between two design directions that we might go based on which one just really grabs you and the other one just doesn't.
00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:41.600
And so I think there will always be room for humans to steer the AI and get much better results than what it can do on its own, just because of those limitations of being a human and having a body and having relationships and associations from your own history and all of those things that come into your reaction to what you see in front of you that aren't really simulatable.
00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:47.039
So I think it will replace a lot of lower level design careers and it already is.
00:14:47.279 --> 00:15:04.960
But I think that the ones that do remain important and intact are the ones where someone is sort of thinking on the art direction level about the big picture and identifying what works and what doesn't, and then making those last level of refinements themselves to make sure that everything makes sense to a human.
00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:15.600
So when you're talking about the lower level positions, and you know, someone listening to this who wants to go into this industry, what are those positions that you think will be replaced?
00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:18.960
And then what would you tell people how to prepare for that?
00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:35.360
I think that the entry-level positions that used to be fairly numerous in terms of just like we need to produce a newsletter every week and it needs to be neat and laid out and have the branding the same, and you need to put all the photos and the images in, that just sort of like executing straightforward work.
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:41.840
I think some people will still be doing it, but because they'll have AI tools to help them, they won't need as many of those people.
00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:50.000
So those jobs will probably be reduced and are already being reduced from what I hear for people who are looking for jobs to be in-house designers.
00:15:50.159 --> 00:16:06.399
I think people that were making a lot of money off of producing stock graphics and images and things like that may find it harder because people can create more original stuff now by asking the AI to make exactly what they want instead of searching for hours for a close proximity.
00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:38.720
And I think anyone entering this field will really want to focus on making sure they understand how the AI tools actually work and what they're great for and what they're bad for, and then really teaching themselves to think conceptually from a higher level viewpoint about the big picture of the purpose of the work that they're producing and how it's gonna help their client actually achieve their goals rather than the minutiae of how to execute what they're told to do, because that's the skill set that we can't really replace.
00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:49.039
So some of those lower level positions and jobs that you were talking about, those help you build experience and kind of get to those upper level positions.
00:16:49.279 --> 00:17:00.080
How do you solve that problem if there aren't people doing those jobs anymore, or you're coming right out of college and you want to get into this industry, you can't break in as the art director.
00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:02.320
How do you see that transition?
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:41.839
That part is tricky and it may involve, and this has always been an issue for designers, but doing a little bit of work that's just passion projects that's about, you know, really cultivating the skill sets that you want to use the most and that you know that there's a market for and feel you could do well, and doing some examples, experimenting with all of the tools, learning from your AI about how to use it better and having work to showcase that, you know, shows that level of thinking and that level of practice, even if it isn't churning out a newsletter every week for a company.
00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:45.920
But it's tricky, it's not gonna be easy, it's not gonna employ as many people.
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:50.720
So it may end up being a smaller and more specialized industry than it used to be.
00:17:50.880 --> 00:18:02.400
And I think that I wouldn't get into it now if I wasn't willing or able to put in the extra time to become that person who can think on that level and direct things on that level.
00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:27.680
And what you take in from others, the just doing the research into, you know, the principles of visual design, if a degree is not in the cards for you, you still need to understand design principles, gestalt psychology, the basics of typography, the basics of color theory, really like educating yourself about the things that make designs effective and powerful rather than just how to execute them.
00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:36.079
And I think all that, all those other experiences that really speaks to you don't have to major in art to do this.
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:42.400
You don't have to major in design, that there's so many other fields that feed into this.
00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:44.000
Adjacent, yes.
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:52.000
And, you know, sometimes the art director person hasn't had a lot of experience actually executing things in Adobe Illustrator.
00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:57.839
They may just really gravitate towards visual storytelling and have a different background that made them good at that.
00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:04.480
Like they took film classes or, you know, they painted, or it just is something that they naturally find that they're good at.
00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:07.039
And the technician part becomes less important.
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:19.680
But it is important to understand those principles that allow us to make designs that work with our psychology and our subconscious and our emotional responses, and the way that our brains just parse a lot of information and understand it and remember it.
00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:30.160
That stuff you do need to know, whether you get it from a degree program or a different online course or from reading lots of, you know, books and things, you do need to learn that stuff.
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:31.519
So, what do you think?
00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:34.640
You know, you kind of said what AI is not good at.
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:39.039
What do you think it's bad for or bad in general?
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:41.200
There are definite downsides.
00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:43.200
There are huge issues.
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:52.240
And I think any designer that is not wrestling with those is doing a disservice to themselves, but also kind of the legacy that we're creating here.
00:19:52.480 --> 00:20:05.440
So using AI at all requires us to kind of embrace a paradox where, on one hand, it has a giant environmental footprint, and the development of it is fairly opaque and really convoluted.
00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:14.799
And the people making it and the people who are using it are scrambling to kind of understand what it can even do and what the risks are, and then govern those and with no precedent.
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:16.400
We're just making it up as we go.
00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:18.960
So, you know, we have to wrestle with that.
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:29.920
And then at the same time, these tools are empowering creatives to spend much more time being creative and not wasting their time on mundane tasks that don't matter.
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:44.000
And it's allowing people like me who want to serve small businesses and entrepreneurs and nonprofits as well as the big guys to really help them grow their impact in a way that maybe they couldn't have afforded before or we couldn't have done before.
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:52.240
So I just try to use it in a way that is aware of both of those things and is efficient and intentional.
00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:56.480
So looking at, you know, which provider am I giving my money to?
00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:19.920
I recently did start migrating a lot of my stuff, my early Chat GPT work, over to Claude, partly because I don't feel that corporations should be making massive donations to super PECs, especially when they're funding opposition to a lot of the sustainability and social accountability measures that I feel are really important and that my clients definitely feel are important.
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:32.240
And then in terms of how I use it, I think the best way that we can avoid, you know, ripping off other people's intellectual property and artistic work is by controlling the inputs.
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:43.680
So when you ask AI to generate something for you, an image or a visual, you can provide references or you can just let it come up with whatever it knows from what it's been trained on.
00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:51.200
And so I try to iterate the projects in steps where I'm just asking for pieces at a time, and then I'll put them all together.
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:59.680
And I'm trying to provide as much of the reference material as possible myself, or source it from places that I know have not stolen it, that are in the public.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.920
domain or that have been authorized for that kind of use.
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:20.319
So that it's really still my editorial process that's leading the thing and that I'm from like providing as much as possible of the raw material that it's working with so that it's not just going off and having a free-for-all on the internet and coming up with something that's ripped off.
00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:24.799
So there are ways to mitigate those downsides, but they do exist.
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:38.720
And I think designers who have a conscience about it are the ones that really need to stay informed about how these tools work, what they can do, what they can't do, what the options are if you want to use them responsibly, and to really speak up.
00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:44.559
Like get in those forums and say what you want to say about how it's generating work for you.
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:47.039
Ask questions about how it was trained.
00:22:47.200 --> 00:23:00.559
You know, Adobe as of 2026 says that they are still training all of their generative AI and tech on art that was authorized for that use where the artists were compensated or gave permission to use it that way or both.
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:07.440
So I try to start there at least and do as much as I can in platforms that have a little bit more of an ethical guardrail.
00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:10.160
Do you think the pros outweigh the cons?
00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:19.359
I sort of feel like that I don't have a choice but to use it to some degree or I would just be out of the industry and my spot will be filled by somebody who doesn't have, you know, a moral compass.
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:21.039
So I choose to stay.
00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:31.680
I think for me individually the pros way outweigh the cons, but that's often the case that things are helpful and convenient to us individually and that makes it easier to ignore the big picture.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:38.160
I have a feeling that the negative consequences we're still just starting to see what some of those will be.
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:44.880
And I have a feeling that others that you know we're really doomsday about won't ever come to be that bad.
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:54.640
But I think it's really hard for us to predict we're really in pretty uncharted territory as far as you know what the ultimate impact of whether it will be more positive or more negative for humanity.
00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:58.000
I've seen it go both ways even just in my own efforts.
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:11.680
So you know a lot of students right now are really pushing back on the idea of AI, some for environmental reasons and sustainability, some because they're afraid this is going to take jobs.
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:26.480
But on the other hand, you know everybody I've talked to whether for this podcast or just you know personal conversations who are working in industries all say that the number one thing students have to do is learn how to use it and use it well.
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:30.319
And so that's a really hard part of all this, right?
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:38.559
So there's these cons and you're recognizing them, but you're also saying, but you if you don't use them then you fall behind.
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:39.039
Right.
00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:47.839
And I think that there's a misconception out there among people that haven't really used them for these types of purposes before that you can just like that it replaces you doing any work.
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:50.480
You know, and you just say AI, make me this and it does.
00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:55.440
And if they try that for a little while they'll see how absurdly bad those results are.
00:24:55.599 --> 00:25:13.519
So I mean I've spent several hours working on one image that was like a key header image for my website of like a BN flower that was sort of used metaphorically for branding and the idea of like attracting just the right person for your specific brand, which is why flowers are so beautiful, right?
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:28.799
And so I first I used the AI to do a little research on types of flowers that are also like naturally occur in my brand colors, you know, and then I sourced a bunch of images of those from sources that I knew I felt comfortable taking images from instead of just wherever.
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:35.599
And then you know we put that together and then we added the bee and it was like oh my God this bee is like tripping me out.
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:36.319
He's horrible.
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.559
He was like looking at me weirdly over his shoulder which I don't think bees can even do.
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:54.799
And so I had to take that into Photoshop and like you know manipulate the face back towards the flower and change the lighting so that it looked like it was reflecting off the flower and put a little blur on the wings so it looked like it was flying and not just floating there.
00:25:54.960 --> 00:26:10.720
So it was still easier than me going to India and photographing plumerias when the bees were out, but it was not by any means like removing the work or the effort or the you know editorial decision making that I was doing to make this thing happen.
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:36.640
So I think if people can learn to integrate it and to actually use their own thoughts and words to tell the AI very specifically what you want and why, instead of just using references, you know, that you can mitigate a lot of the ethical problems with it and you can also make yourself still a valuable asset in the field because of your own original ideas and you know decision making and discernment and keep your job.
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:39.519
And it can get you in trouble if you aren't thoughtful about it.
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:49.279
When you can show your work and that you know it came from your own thoughts and that you were asking for specific things for specific reasons that actually protects you legally a lot better too.
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:57.680
So if I had a brand that just said like oh we want you to make an avatar of our ideal client and she's an Oprah type like I'm not gonna go to AI and type Oprah.
00:26:57.759 --> 00:26:59.279
I'm not gonna say the name ever.
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:19.039
You know I'm gonna ask that client like what do you think it is about Oprah that your clients like can you think of other people that are well known that they also would like you know and then I might show them 20 pictures and be like which of these look the most like what you're looking for and why and then I might ask the AI to describe what all these four pictures have in common.
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:26.000
And then I might write a prompt using what I liked from what the AI told me all those photos had and then put that back in.
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:26.799
You know what I mean?
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:41.039
And then you're never saying Oprah you're saying I want a diverse representation of mature women who are self-possessed and stylish and the brand tone is authoritative but also warm.
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:50.559
And you know here are some examples that I already mocked up of not real people and then let it give me something and you know it's going to turn out a lot better.
00:27:50.720 --> 00:28:00.319
But that's a skill set that takes you know a day and a lot of thought and that's the kind of skill that I would work on cultivating if I wanted to have any kind of job using AI.
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:01.200
That's excellent.
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:11.200
Okay so a young person comes to you they're in college they really like doing this kind of stuff that this is what they want to make their career.
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:12.319
What do you tell them?
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:14.880
Because you just said that there's gonna be less jobs.
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:16.400
There are, yes.
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:43.440
I think I would tell them to get more specific earlier on about you know a feasible role that they want to work towards rather than just assuming once I've completed X education, I'll just start implying for things on Indeed and I'll get one of them to be more deliberate about it, to think about projects they could do even just on their own to really showcase exactly what they want to do and then to just stay really involved with the tools and understanding how they work so that they feel caught up.
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:53.039
And when they do get hired by someone because they've said that they know how to use AI, they mean that they know how to use you know recent versions to do things that people actually need.
00:28:53.119 --> 00:29:06.480
And just yeah be really thinking about that specific career design that they would like to have rather than just assuming degree leads to applications leads to you know my first job and then I just work my way through different jobs till they're better.
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:07.039
Right.
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:10.240
So and what about starting your own business?
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:14.160
What advice would you give people going in that direction?
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:40.160
Yeah I would say have some diversity in your income in the beginning some other things to fall back on or do part-time or maybe it's one sort of boring contract but it pays the bills so that you don't stress yourself out because it is if you're working for yourself there's going to be income fluctuation especially if you aren't really into making reproducible things or courses for other designers or those kinds of things that you can just sell on repeat.
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:42.960
If you want to do custom work, there's going to be fluctuation.
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:47.519
So I wish that well I sort of was into other stuff at the time that I started out.
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:56.079
So I did have some other income streams but when I really went to make this business my only income stream, I faced that kind of stress all over again.
00:29:56.240 --> 00:30:01.119
When I removed those other pieces I realized like oh if I have a dip, it's like I really feel it.
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:13.680
So planning for that in a smart way and trying not to be resentful about you know the work that you do on the side to have time and to be able to afford to do this too and to start thinking early and thinking big about money.
00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:16.000
I wish that I had done that a little bit more.
00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:25.119
I think I didn't want to think about it being oh it's for the money but there's no reason that we should hold ourselves back either just because we're in a creative field.
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.279
You know, inflation moves fast.
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:33.519
Expenses of life and expenses of running a business are increasing faster than a lot of our salaries are increasing.
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:43.519
So looking at your numbers, trying to rid yourself of the emotional baggage around money to the extent that you can, that's been a challenge for me that I continue to work on.
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:55.279
But it's a necessary thing to be able to face and deal with if you want to be in business for yourself or even in a small business with a few partners or a few employees that you have the pressure of paying them too.
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:59.680
So where do you see yourself then in five years, 10 years?
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.079
I'd like to be able to hire more help.
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:03.119
That would be lovely.
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:08.799
And I would like to get increasingly targeted about the clients that I'm working with.
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:12.640
Environmental and social justice issues have always been really important to me.
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:23.200
I worked on those issues a lot in my nonprofit career and I want to work with companies and nonprofits that are helping to advance that stuff even more than I already am.
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:31.359
And so each time I sort of iterate on my own brand, I'm trying more and more to sort of speak to that audience and let them know they're in the right place.
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:47.440
And I'd like to be able to give back more to you know have more money that I could contribute to causes that I feel strongly about, have more opportunity to pitch them work to help them advance something important, even if it's not a big profit thing for me, because I have room to do that.
00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:53.599
So those would be considerable you know measures that I haven't quite fully achieved yet that I want to see happen.
00:31:53.759 --> 00:32:00.559
And you know I could stand to level up a few things in terms of ever like paying myself and enjoying money a little bit.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:16.480
We've adopted a pretty minimalist lifestyle that most of the time I really enjoy but once in a while I'd like to be able to say yes to some bigger things that I think when I bring on some more help under me, I'll be more equipped to do just because I can deliver work faster and without compromising on quality.
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:20.400
Any last advice for young adults listening?
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:28.640
For young adults listening, I think it's going to be advice that they probably hear from a lot of your guests which is what we were just talking about.
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:38.000
There are so many paths that when you start over designing your track ahead of time, it almost really limits you and puts you in a box that didn't need to be there.
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:45.519
And so I think it's important to be logical about the paths and the tools and the training that exist and what they cost.
00:32:45.599 --> 00:33:17.680
And also at the same time, on the other hand, keep a really open mind about how that could turn out for you and what you know avenues might emerge that you haven't thought of yet and be willing to you know follow your instincts a little bit on the kinds of things that you can both feel like you could become good at and that you would enjoy and then just explore the world and talk to everyone you can about how they can help you achieve that or what insight they might have that that could help you realize a way to do something you actually enjoy in a sustainable way.
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:18.319
Nice.
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:19.920
Where can people find you?
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:28.000
I am at silverminecreative studio that's my main website and link to my portfolio and then I'm also on LinkedIn.
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:32.400
I'm not super active right now but I'm there under Elizabeth Minor, M-I-N-E-R.
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:35.680
So those are probably the best two places to find me.
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:44.640
And you can look up keystoneetwork.org and also see your work you also did the Pathfound logo and that was a fun one.
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:46.880
Yes it's been a great partnership.
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:51.599
Elizabeth thank you so much I really appreciate you taking the time today to talk with us.
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:56.480
Of course thank you for having me and for giving me the opportunity to work on all of your projects with you.
00:33:56.559 --> 00:33:58.480
They've been really fulfilling and great.
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:01.200
Thank you so much for listening to Pathfound.
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:09.679
If anything we talked about today connected with you or gave you a new perspective we'd love it if you subscribed left a review or shared the episode with someone you care about.
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:12.800
You can also find us on Instagram at Pathfound Podcast.
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:17.760
To explore more stories, resources and ways to get involved visit Keystoneetwork.org.
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:26.800
This podcast is just one part of the journey at Keystone Network for helping young people and anyone figuring it out as they go build meaningful futures one step at a time.
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:36.079
A huge thank you to my podcast editor David Strut you can find him on LinkedIn for helping bring these stories to life and to Elizabeth Minor at Silvermine Creative for the beautiful artwork and web design.
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:42.800
And if you're on your own path navigating the unknown making a pivot or simply figuring it out as you go just know you're not alone.
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:45.519
The route may not be linear but there's always a way forward.
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:49.280
I'm Monica Argandonia and I'll see you next time on Path Found
