MFA.CWR Transcript for Wireside Chat, Featuring Special Guest Amber-Nicole Stephens, 4/14/2026
[00:00:03.779]
PAUL WITCOVER: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the April, I can’t believe it’s April already, Wireside Chat with my special guest, Amber-Nicole Stephens. Amber-Nicole’s first novel is coming out, I think next week, isn’t that, right?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Next Tuesday.
PAUL WITCOVER: Next Tuesday, very exciting. And I’m actually gonna share a picture of the cover of her novel because I think it’s so awesome. Can you all see that? Now that’s a cover. That is a great cover. That’s something that’s gonna grab people from across the bookstore.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That was very much the intention.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes, it’s just awesome. I love the pinks, and the blues, and purples.
[00:00:49.919]
PAUL WITCOVER: Just a great cover. And I also would like to share this link, which will take you to bookshop dot org, which is where you will be able to order a copy of Amber-Nicole’s book. So, Amber-Nicole is going to read for us first, and feel free to preface your reading any way you like, any context you care to give. And then when you’re done, I’ll come back on, and we can start chatting.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Okay. Remind me, Paul, how much time I have.
PAUL WITCOVER: You can read for like, let’s say, between 5 and 10 minutes, whatever you feel like in that span.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That’s perfect, [CHUCKLING] that’s perfect.
[00:01:39.580] Hello, everyone. My name is Amber-Nicole Stephens. I am writing under the pen name of Savannah Stephens. I will be reading tonight from my debut novel, “Witch Queen Rising,” and I would like to start with just the back of the book, in case anyone who has not heard it before. For Witch Queens, or excuse me, for New Orleans Witch clan, there is no greater honor than to become the Prime, chosen to rule. But the title is meant to pass between two rival houses of magic, not to the wayward daughter of the former Prime, who died under mysterious circumstances. As a girl, Seraphine Berreau was dubbed the tic witch for her ability to feed on magic and make it her own. Even among those who could alter fate and manipulate reality, she was a powerful outcast, and feared by her people.
[00:02:28.610]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Now, dragged back to continue the legacy, she nearly, that nearly destroyed her, Phine has her work cut out for her. She must earn the respect of her people, navigate the politics of the paranormal communities residing in her city, and heal from a broken heart, all while battling a parasitic curse. Between all these things, Phine must learn to make peace with her past, to save herself, and all of Witchkin’s future. Before I continue, was audio okay for that?
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes, it was more than okay. There was actually a comment saying with your voice, you could be a voice actress.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, that is so kind. I would love to. I’m certainly open to doing that.
PAUL WITCOVER: Is there an audio book of your novel?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: There is. It was actually narrated by Chanté McCormick, who is a voice actor I’ve seen several books from, and she’s fantastic.
[00:03:20.139]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, I was not tapped for this. But who knows, in the future.
PAUL WITCOVER: In the future, you do really have a great voice, so I think that would be definitely an option.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Thank you friends. Without further ado then, I will start with chapter one. “A surge of energy jolted Phine awake. Not the wake-up-refreshed-from-a-nap kind of energy, or the artificial high of too much caffeine. Instead, she woke to the universe mistaking her for a lightning rod… and by the Stars did it hurt? Joints locked, limbs twisting as muscle and sinew strained beneath her skin. A scream clawing up her throat, she tumbled out of her bed onto cool floorboards. There, she thrashed like a catfish, caught on a line, while wave after wave of ancient power crashed into her body.
[00:04:11.309] Without her Well, the vessel inside herself for magic, the power had nowhere to go. There was too much of it, and not enough of her. Pain lit up her senses while she struggled to focus. Her mind’s eye conjured the image of a deep stone well, its opening sealed shut with glowing chains. Long ago, she had sealed her Well to start a new life. Now, that life depended on breaking those chains before this great and terrible power could break her body. She hissed as the chains constricted around her in the real world. The crushing pressure bore down on her, building in her bones until she cried out. She needed the incantation to break the warding. She began wading through memories, desperate to save herself.
[00:04:58.279] Just as her vision began to blur, she remembered. Reap what was sown. Release what was bound. Return what was lost. The chains flared, then crumbled into glittering dust that floated away. With the floodgates open, the magic flowed home, its unrelenting waves mellowed to soft ripples that tingled but no longer made her skin feel two sizes too small. She came back to herself with a grasp, with a deep gasp. Still on her back, she dragged air into seared lungs and groaned. The stillness after the city roar found her through brick, mortar and steel. Heavy metal blared from the apartment above her, but not loud enough to drown out the baby crying across the hall. Someone yelled at it for it to be quiet between banging on the walls.
[00:05:48.329] When she opened her eyes, the room was dark save for dancing lights along the wall. But the sun had set hours ago and that color was wrong. Head throbbing, she brought her palm towards her forehead but stopped inches from her face. Her right hand was surrounded by shifting currents of midnight blue and black light. The light was radiating across every inch of her skin. It was coming from her. No, she thought, as a pit of dread opened inside her. It should be impossible. This power, the power of the Prime should never have come to her. She was lucky to be alive. But that was more than could be said for someone back home. For her to be cresting on this ocean of magic, someone who should be near and dear to her was now dearly departed.
[00:06:40.579] One does not become the Prime by choice. The Heart of the Land chose the successor when the old Prime returned to it, which meant she was in big trouble because of the magic found her, her family could too. Phine crawled to her feet, stumbling across the room in search of and then finding a switch. Muted light flicked on in the tiny studio. It wasn’t much to write home about, a full-size mattress on a box spring, a bureau, and a nightstand just shy from a tiny, outdated kitchen. No TV or photos. No knickknacks or homey touches. Those were for people who weren’t always a moment away from skipping town, and that moment was now. She threw open drawers and tossed clothes back onto the bed, dragged on jeans and a tank top, and grabbed a leather jacket. The scent grounded her, helping her push away the instinct to panic.
[00:07:33.190] She started ticking off the steps she’d planned for just this moment. Rent was paid. The landlord knew if she wasn’t there the first of the month, she wasn’t coming back. Her emergency bag was in the car, already stocked with two weeks of toiletries, water, and non-perishable foods. She would call work once she was out of the city, as they’d otherwise be expecting her in a few hours. She scanned the bare room. Nothing stood out as essential. There wasn’t anything she couldn’t do without. Which was good because she could never come back. As a dark presence from the South broke over the horizon of her mind’s eye, she faced that direction. The feeling crept closer, like storm clouds rolling in. They were already in the city.
[00:08:16.959] She stuffed everything she could grab into a carry-on bag and bolted for the door. Outside her building, her 1970 Plymouth Barracuda waited for her. She tossed her bag in the trunk and climbed in. The monstrous engine roared to life and she sped off into the night. She went from waking to on the road in 12 minutes flat. She hoped it would be enough. Heading north with a single-minded focus of the hunted, she wove through traffic as fast as she dared. As the presence grew closer, the shadow she’d sensed earlier became a pressure in the back of her skull. By the time she was halfway out of the city, it loomed like a tidal wave. Her grip on the steering wheel tightened until the leather creaked beneath her fingers. She’d spent 10 years hiding. Now, despite all that careful, calculated isolation, it had only taken them 25 minutes to find her.
[00:09:09.849] But if she could get across the river, she could find her safe house and ward it with her power. She could… ’Stop the car, Seraphine.’ A man’s voice in her mind made her jump, and she narrowly missed rear-ending a cab. Cursing under her breath, she got the car under control, and accelerated again. ’Seraphine Barreau. Stop this car.’ ’Saints and stars,’ she yelled. By the time the vioce, this time the voice wasn’t in her head. It was right next to her in the passenger seat. She veered down a side street and parked. When her heart crept down from out of her throat, she glared at her new guests. Sharply dressed in a patterned tuxedo and top hat, her mother’s stewart regarded her with equal parts scorn and satisfaction. A sigh heaved out of her.
[00:09:58.049] Of all the people they could send to ferry her back, why did it have to be him? ’Time to go home,’ he said, his yacht accent thick. He grabbed her hand and the static tingle of magic surrounded her. Every cell, every fiber of her being charged, just before she was pulled back to the one place she dreaded returning to. She’d closed her eyes against the nausea of teleportation, so it was her nose that told her where she landed. The air was rich with the scent of mossy trees, and deep water, jasmine, and witch hazel. She was back in New Orleans. She was home.” [PAUSE] That’s the prologue.
[00:10:42.700]
PAUL WITCOVER: That is so awesome. Thank you so much for sharing that. I wanna remind everyone that if you have questions for Amber-Nicole or comments, please put them in the chat. So many things I would like to talk to you about and ask you about. I guess the first thing though is, I just wanna comment on the lushness of your prose, and the gorgeous attention to detail in your prose. Everything is described with such just caring and attention. So, I wanna ask you how, how do you build your scenes and your settings with that level of attention to the description?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Well, it is certainly a process. I wish I could say that that naturally flowed out of me. I’m actually the type of person where I need to get all of the skeleton down. So, I need to get the beats, the dialogue, this, that and the third. And then once that’s in, that’s when we start coming back for the feelings.
[00:11:47.789]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: The most consistent feedback that I actually get from my agent is, “Where are the feelings?” [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS AND PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING] And so it’s not something that comes naturally to me, but it just, I started thinking of all the things that I would want in order to be immersed into a world. And so, I try to approach things from all five of the senses. Six, depending on which part of the book we’re in. And I just try to build it out from there. As a long time lover of fantasy, one of the things I especially appreciated about it is the ability to lose yourself in a book. And so, I wanted to write stories that were like that.
PAUL WITCOVER: Here’s a great question I’m gonna pull out of the chat. Do you have a background as a witch [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS LAUGHING] or were you inspired by something or someone or a mix of both?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I have, I’ve been affectionately referred to as a witch for most of my life. [PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING] As you may or may not see, I have fangs.
[00:12:38.320]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: We fully committed to the brand. I have claws. It’s a whole thing. [PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING] I would consider myself Pagan and a spiritualist, but I don’t know if I would call myself Wicca or witch in the way that most people would think of it.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm. One of the other things that and, you know, I wanna just, you know, far be it from me to, to contradict your agent, but there, it seems to me that the feeling and feelings are so present in what you read and what I’ve read. I mean, I’ve almost finished your book now. I was racing against time. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS CHUCKLING] You know, I wanted to finish it before we had our event tonight, and I was reading as quickly as I could, but I couldn’t read that quickly, because it’s so beautifully written. So, I had to also pace myself. You know what I mean?
[00:13:28.630]
PAUL WITCOVER: So, anyway, I feel like, you know, there’s such strong feelings on every page. And I think that’s a testament to the approach that you’ve taken, of, kind of, going back multiple times and layering in the various elements of your story world. How many times, how many times do you go back and revise a piece or this piece, for example?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I think, seriously? Seriously? Actually, no, let’s start from the beginning. So finish the book, I believe June-ish of 2021. I did that to try to get into a fellowship, which I didn’t get into. Came back for another round of revisions to query the book. And then after querying, I went through major revisions. So, I guess three to four, I would say.
[00:14:17.969]
PAUL WITCOVER: Okay, so actually, as long as we’re on this topic, we might as well keep going. Why don’t you tell us your journey to publication, which you mentioned, was a relatively short one.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: It was entirely nonsensical. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS AND PAUL WITCOVER CHUCKLING] I had been hearing horror stories from people for months at this point about how people’s writing careers essentially go to die in the query trenches, and I am an organizer, and a planner. I’m also a plotter. And so, I quite literally went through every agent profile on querytracker dot com, in the US, [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS CHUCKLING] to make a spreadsheet with rounds of all of the agents that I essentially plan to go and query for. The first agent I queried, who rejected me in less than 24 hours, mind you, told me, “Do not give up.”
[00:15:09.304]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: “Do not lose heart,” that he had been rejected 292 times before he got his one offer of representation. And so with that in mind, brain said, “Oh, we need, we need a spreadsheet. We need lots, lots and lots of things.” [PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING] Only, for me to happen to be stumbling through my manuscript wishlist on Twitter at the time, and I saw this lovely woman who mentioned that she was a junior agent who was opening herself up to queries at the beginning of the month, I went and I looked into her, into the agency itself. Liked what I saw, and I said, “Let’s see what happens.” And so, six weeks after starting querying, and she was my sixth agent, I received an offer of representation.
PAUL WITCOVER: That’s fantastic. [PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, I did a whole bunch of legwork in order to stumble upon my agent.
[00:16:04.200]
PAUL WITCOVER: Right, but, you know, I feel like all of that stuff happens for a reason. You know, you were, you were getting yourself mentally into the space that you needed to be in.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, I was prepared for pain. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS AND PAUL WITCOVER CHUCKLING] Like the way, the way people talk about it, it’s traumatizing. And so, I was just trying my best not to be one of those people or to do everything in my power to avoid that.
PAUL WITCOVER: So, take a step-by-step through the journey. So, you apply through manuscript, through manuscript.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: What was it? Query tracker. Yes.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, the agent who’s just on Twitter who happens to say like, “I’m opening up my, you know, for submissions, for queries,” for a particular period of time, and you submit, and you, and she comes back to you with an offer.
[00:16:49.989]
PAUL WITCOVER: So, take us from there through the process of working with the agent, submitting to a publisher, being offered a deal from the publisher to where you are today.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, I signed with my agent September 18th of 2023, if I remember correctly. The years might be a blur at this point, to actually, then is that how that worked? So, to finish the book in order to then go up submission, this was my Capstone project actually…
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …to finish and do the revisions for Witch Queen Rising. And so, by the time I had submitted it for graduation, we then went on submission, I think two weeks later. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS CHUCKLING]
PAUL WITCOVER: Wow.
[00:17:32.979]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, that would have been would have been May 2nd, if I remember correctly, and I was fortunate in that the editor who would eventually offer on me said that she was interested from the second week, which would have been crazy. But I think they had been trying to package it between the UK side and the US side…
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …and that caused a bit of a delay. But all things considered, I received my verbal offer, September, on the day like a year to the anniversary of signing with my agent…
PAUL WITCOVER: Wow, wow.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …September 18th.
PAUL WITCOVER: And just to let people know your book is coming out simultaneously in the UK from Glance, which is a very prestigious publisher of speculative fiction in the UK and in the US from Penguin Random House, which is also a very prestigious publisher.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm. No pressure. It’s fine. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS AND PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING]
[00:18:25.260]
PAUL WITCOVER: I feel, I feel like you’re gonna do great. So, [PAUSE] once you were, once the offer was made, what kind of work did you have to do on the book? And did you have differing editorial feedback from your editor in England and your editor in the US?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, that too was an interesting ride. Essentially, it boiled down to, and just just rolled with me here for a second, who paid for me more?
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, Gollancz’s offer was modest, but, what is it? Who are those people? Ace. Actually, it was a nice deal.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I was offered a six-figure deal, and…
PAUL WITCOVER: Oh. That’s great.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, at that point, Gollancz said, “This is your baby. So, you can do most of the editorial work.”
PAUL WITCOVER: Okay.
[00:19:11.030]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I was fortunate in that there were no cuts, now that I think about it. They, I really just, I think I added maybe 10,000 words, like, whatever there were gaps in that, the editor thought was, that’s pretty much what I added to the book.
PAUL WITCOVER: Okay.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Again, I was very, very fortunate.
PAUL WITCOVER: And you sold I mean, this is the first book of a, of a two book deal.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm.
PAUL WITCOVER: So, did you already have the second book written?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: No. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS LAUGHING]
PAUL WITCOVER: When? No. [CHUCKLING]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, it’s still not written.
PAUL WITCOVER: So, where are you now in terms of, like, completing the second book?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, I am 85,000 words of what I am hoping to be 100,000.
PAUL WITCOVER: Okay.
[00:19:50.310]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: When I queried the book, it was 93,000, and it got up to 136 by the time it was ready for publication. And since this is my first time writing a sequel, writing the conclusion of a duology…
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I wanted to have again what I thought would be the good framework for the novel. And then between my agent and my editors, and I have a proposed list of additional scenes, we’ll see what needs to be added from there.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, let me pull another question out of the chat. Do you see yourself in any other author? Are you inspired by anyone?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: The very first author that came to mind was Toni Morrison. If in case it shows on the screen, I actually work for Syracuse University. And come to find out, Toni Morrison had worked for Syracuse University…
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: … while she had been on the East Coast.
[00:20:40.000]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Between her, Octavia Butler, James Baldwin, that is my holy trinity of writers.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, yes
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Personally, but in terms of fantasy, I would say, of course, Anne Rice, Laurell K. Hamilton, Patricia Briggs, Kim Harrison. Who else? Sarah Douglas and Jacqueline Carey, those were like my formative, like deep immersive writers I remember reading.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. It’s interesting that you mentioned, you know, Baldwin and Morrison. And actually even, oh gosh, why am I blanking… on Octavia Butler. Cause Octavia Butler is known more for science fiction…,
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Yes.
PAUL WITCOVER: In the speculative world than she is for fantasy.
[00:21:32.329]
PAUL WITCOVER: Even though I suppose you could say that “Kindred” is sort of a fantasy novel and then of course, Morrison had elements of fantasy, I guess, you might say magical realism in some of her work. Like, “Beloved,” of course, is definitely. Baldwin, not so much, just a beautiful writer. So, I’m curious about what drew you to the fantastic side of things, the fantasy side of things.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, I was fortunate in that I grew up with a poet. My mother is a poet. She is also a writer. I grew up surrounded by books, but oddly enough, I was the fantasy child of my primarily science-fiction family.
PAUL WITCOVER: Interesting.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And have deep appreciation for it. Happy to watch it, but I always, how can I phrase this?
[00:22:23.069]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I think science is just magic we understand, and I’m drawn to the unknown, is I guess, I will say it.
PAUL WITCOVER: [CHUCKLING] That’s great. Well, so your mom is a poet.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm. My mom is a poet. [CHUCKLING]
PAUL WITCOVER: Alright. Well, I mean, I feel like, now I have a more of an understanding of your facility with language. I mean, you must have, what does your mom think of your writing?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I am very fortunate in that the relationship I have with my mother is not the relationship Phine has with hers. I wanna be clear about that, [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS AND PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING] for those who may or may not have read the book yet. But how can I, repeat the question, I apologize.
PAUL WITCOVER: Well, I’m just curious what your mom and your family think about your work?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, she endorses it.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. Well, good.
[00:23:14.329]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: My mother reached out to me today, asking me if I could find some sort of, like, TeeMoon like shop that will put my, the book cover on earrings, because she wants to walk around with a book cover earrings of my book.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, well, you know, what else would look really good? I don’t have a, I wish I had something I could show people, but each of the chapters in your
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm.
PAUL WITCOVER: …Novel also has kind of a symbol.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh yes.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Attached to it. And that would make an awesome tattoo, for example.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I actually just put in an order today for swag for both my street team and for some people who have just been particularly supportive. And the bookmark is has Savannah’s pride on it, and in the back is this symbol from Which Queen Rising, and only, like, 15 people are gonna get that one.
[00:24:01.390]
PAUL WITCOVER: Very cool. All right, so let’s talk about your pseudonym. So, where does Savannah come from, and what made you decide to adopt a pseudonym in the first place?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, I have a peculiar relationship with my name. So, as you can see, my first name is Amber-Nicole. It is hyphenated. I can introduce myself as Amber-Nicole. People can hear me refer to as Amber-Nicole, read my name as Amber-Nicole, and then for some reason they will still just call me Amber. [PAUL WITCOVER CHUCKLING]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And to avoid being, to avoid just being annoyed, or pissed off, [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS LAUGHING] or just tired of having that constantly, I decided to just opt for a pen name that was simple and easy for people. Savannah worked for both the aesthetic, as I talked about earlier, I’m very feline.
[00:24:51.939]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I have a fondness for lions. So, Savannah…
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …is the home of the lions, and the home of my books.
PAUL WITCOVER: Are you a Leo?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I’m a Sag, actually, but I’ve always been very feline by nature.
PAUL WITCOVER: [LAUGHING] Well, I think Savannah Stephens is a great name. But so is Amber-Nicole. So, I mean, you can’t go wrong.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, and there is also an Amber V Nicole writer, who writes similarly dark fiction.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And so, I think that was also the thought process.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, yeah. That’s, you definitely don’t wanna be mistaken for another writer.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: No. [CHUCKLING]
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, so again, anybody have questions for Amber-Nicole, throw them into the chat, please.
[00:25:37.609]
PAUL WITCOVER: The other thing I wanted to ask you about was the magic system of your novel. It’s very interesting. I mean, you’ve got elements that are familiar from urban fantasies. You know, here we have, you know, a setting in which there are vampires, there’s shifters, there’s the she, the fairy folk, and then the witches are the, I guess the four major players…
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm.
PAUL WITCOVER: …at least, so far as I’ve read. And but, within or against that sort of those familiar trappings, you’ve added a lot of really original stuff that is new on its own, but also, kind of, lends a new shine to some of those older concepts.
[00:26:27.569]
PAUL WITCOVER: The concept of the Well, I think, I thought was very interesting and also just the relationship of the various, supernatural beings to each other. So, can you talk about, like, the world building of your book and how that came about?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That is definitely an amalgamation of, again, all of the inspirations that I enjoyed growing up. There’s elements from Anne Rice, from Laurell K. Hamilton, from Constantine, from the Originals, American horror story "Coven," like, pulled little bits and pieces that I thought would work for everything. But more than anything, I just wanted to create again, like, this rich world that was different enough, again from, again that familiar and foreign aspect of it where I wanted it to be just common enough while still giving you something different to latch on to.
[00:27:20.219]
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, one of the books that it reminded me of, I don’t know if you’ve read this or not, the, it’s a fantasy series by Roger Zelazny, “The Nine Princes in Amber.”
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That sounds, oh, gosh, that sounds familiar. I might have read it years ago.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. The thing about that, that makes me, that reminded me, or that your book reminded me of is, is that’s a book that, you know, it has all these great fantasy elements, but it’s also a family drama. It’s also about the connection between, you know, this extended family, this large family that, you know, has a lot of water under the bridge, a lot of resentments, a lot of old ties.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Feelings...
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes, exactly. All that stuff. And that is, I feel like that, you know, you have a lot of exciting things going on. Like I mentioned, your magic system is really interesting and fun. There’s a lot of, you know, scary stuff that’s happening here.
[00:28:18.250]
PAUL WITCOVER: But there’s also this other level that’s really just about, you know, the family dynamics, and the relationship among siblings, and extended family, and the responsibilities that you owe, the desire to escape from your family, which your protagonist definitely feels until she’s, kind of, roped back in much against her will at first. You know, to being in this position of responsibility for just about everybody. So, I think, I feel like that’s something that makes your book really stand out among fantasies is how much it’s geared to the exploration of these family dynamics.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm, because I think, of course, it’s great to have the magic, it’s great to have the blood, it’s great to have the bells and whistles.
[00:29:11.979]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But ultimately, I like to think that when we read books, we’re reading them for the characters and their stories. And something that was important to me in this process was creating characters that people knew. Good, bad, or otherwise, everybody knows at least one character in this book. And I wanted that familiarity. If for no other reason than for some people can see, what do you do when your parental figure or your sibling or your community at large doesn’t claim you? I want it and it might be a bit grandiose, but I actually wanted to give insights, real life world lessons on…
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …you don’t have to keep people in your life who treat you terribly. You do not have to abide disrespect you. You may not be able to change the people around you, but you can change the people around you.
[00:30:04.469] PAUL WITCOVER: Right? And that’s certainly a journey that Seraphine is on. You know, there’s this, this isn’t really a spoiler, but there’s this, there’s this great scene where she’s kind of snatched away from the real world into the world of all of her ancestors, and she’s faced with some pretty harsh things that are said to her, and some harsh emotions that are expressed that are really kind of devastating. And, you know, one of the things about her, about her character is just really, first of all, she’s an incredible survivor. But secondly, she’s really had a lot to survive. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS LAUGHING] I mean, she really has had a raw deal, you know, almost from the get go, by people that she should have been able to place her trust and faith in, her mother primarily.
[00:30:58.930]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: First and foremost.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Would you believe that at several points in the story, I wondered if there was enough going on?
PAUL WITCOVER: Oh my gosh. [PAUL WITCOVER and AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS LAUGHING]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I put her through the wringer. I think, I can’t even know. Phine is a product of survival and resilience, which I think is something that most people can appreciate. Most people are gonna gravitate towards an underdog, if for no other reason that we have. We have all [CHUCKLING] been through it in various ways.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But I also wanted to, to humanize her in a lot of ways. Like she does have some moments where, where she breaks, where she feels, where she falls apart. And I feel like that’s a part of the strong female protagonist that we don’t get to see very often.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: She has anxiety. I don’t think I say it specifically, but she does have like an undiagnosed anxiety disorder that happens every time something bad, when she needs to breathe. That’s what that little quirk is.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhmm.
[00:31:53.780]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Cause those are very real things.
PAUL WITCOVER: I’m gonna grab a couple more questions out of the chat in just a second. Before I do that, though, the other thing that I wanted to ask you about, because you’ve been through our program, right?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm.
PAUL WITCOVER: And survived. [AMBER INAUDIBLE] And not only survived [AMBER LAUGHING], you thrived, but, you know, a lot of times in the writing biz and, you know, especially as you’re, as you’re in workshops and such, you know, you’re gonna hear like, “Don’t start a story when where somebody is asleep,” you know, “Don’t start a story where just a lot of confusing stuff is happening, and the reader is gonna be like overwhelmed and wondering, what the heck’s going on.” But that’s exactly how [CHUCKLING] this story starts.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Yep.
PAUL WITCOVER: And you manage to pull it off. It doesn’t, it’s like you take, you take something that, you know, you were perhaps warned not to do.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Absolutely. [LAUGHING]
[00:32:48.369]
PAUL WITCOVER: Maybe you took it as a challenge, and said, “I’m gonna do it anyway.” So, what made you start that, start the book that way? And what were the challenges that you had to overcome in order to make it work on a craft level?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, it’s so fascinating because I was unaware that there was this stigma or this disdain for prologues. I was just like, “Oh, a prologue seems right. Lemme just, just throw in this little teaser…
PAUL WITCOVER: Right.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …to get people interested.” And the agent that I had mentioned that had rejected me within 24 hours and who had received 292 rejections, his initial thought was, “She’s waking up and it’s a prologue? No, no, no.” [LAUGHING] So that was, that was it.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That was the only thing that he needed in order to reject my book. But I knew, I knew when I started this process that reading is subjective. What some people love, some people hate, what some people hate, some people love.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
[00:33:41.930]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And so, I wanted to write the story that I wanted to write, that I would want to read. And I knew that there is an audience for it. I just had to get it into the right agent’s hands, the right editor’s hands, the right publisher’s hands.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That’s, that’s the long and short of it.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. Well, that’s, that’s very wise. And I hope everyone that’s here today is listening to that and taking it to heart because I think that’s 100% correct. You know, I like prologues, and a lot of people in the chat, I don’t know if you’re, if you’re seeing that they like it too. But on the other hand, you know, the one thing that I also wanna point out that’s correct is, it’s like, you know, you experienced an agent who just were, was like, “Well, here’s two things that are on my list of things I don’t wanna see. So that’s it, that’s it. I’m not reading anymore.” Right?
[00:34:33.208]
PAUL WITCOVER: And, and that’s the way the agents are. You know, they’re, they are tough, and they, they receive so many manuscripts that they can’t possibly read them all. They don’t have the, they don’t have the luxury of saying like, “Well, you know what, I’m not really into prologues, so I’ll keep reading, and see if chapter one or chapter two grabs me.” Nope. Prologue. That’s it. Out.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And I completely feel for agents because again, as I’ve gone through this process, and even gone through it with my agent, I see the flood, the tsunami of queries that they get. And unfortunately, they don’t get paid to read those.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That’s at their caution, at their discretion. How can I, and I, I’m sorry, I feel like I just keep losing my train of thought. Could you say the thing just before that?
PAUL WITCOVER: Oh, gosh. You’re assuming that I remember my train of thought. [LAUGHING]
[00:35:25.330]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But I think ultimately, what I think people need to understand is that, as long as it’s done well, and not talking about myself, specifically, but as long as it’s done well, there will always be room for it. Vampires were dead until someone made a vampire book that some people like. No one cared about shifters. And then every male protagonist became a shifter. No one cared about the fae, and then the fae became a thing. So, you just have to be that person who gets the ball rolling.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yup. That’s great. And, and I again, I agree with you 100% about that. All right. Here is a question I’m going to ask from the chat. This is about children’s fiction. Do you have any experience writing or reading children’s fiction? Is that something you ever think about doing?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Certainly have read children’s fiction, as a youth. I’m open to telling any story that makes sense to me.
[00:36:22.620]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I’m interested in writing psychological thriller. I’m interested in getting into more horror. I’m interested in writing more romance. It really just depends on the story that’s speaking to me at the time.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yup.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I consider myself a dark fantasy author. And so, anything that falls within that realm is game. I don’t, I don’t see genre as, what is that word? Genre is not a boundary for me. It’s more like a guideline.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm. I mean, there’s certainly a number of different genres that are, you know, playing out against each other in this book. I mean, there’s a strong, you know, romantic sub, romance subplots going on in the book. Mystery, you know, there’s just a, just a lot of different genres, working together. All right, let me pull these questions out of here that I wanted to talk about.
[00:37:19.610]
PAUL WITCOVER: All right, please ignore this if it’s a rude question. So, just tell me if it’s a rude question.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Okay.
PAUL WITCOVER: Can you talk about the financial side? And please don’t mention any, you know, don’t mention numbers. But how do you get…
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I have no problem telling the numbers if you wanna hear the numbers.
PAUL WITCOVER: …well, just like these are the things that this person is interested in. How do you get paid royalties? How does that work and when, when do you get paid? And are you able to make a living off your writing, or do you have to have other work to support yourself?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, at this stage, I am, I still have a day job. Do not quit your day job. Even though I had been offered a $100,000 book deal. Do not quit your day job because the unfortunate reality of the situation is you are not paid that money all up front. It is usually divided up into four payments, over usually two years.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
[00:38:11.060]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, it’s when you sign the contract, when the book gets published, a year after it, and then I think, one other one I can’t remember off the top of my head. And if you earn back whatever they paid you, that is when you are eligible for royalties. And so, it’s an interesting balance where I was all right with Gollancz, offering a very modest number at the time for me, because again, that’s less pressure for me to earn out. It’s much easier for me to earn out $10,000 as opposed to $100,000.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But here we are, and we’re gonna have to do it anyway.
PAUL WITCOVER: Right. I mean, and, you know, also you’re giving a portion of your, of your…
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, yes.
PAUL WITCOVER: …advance to your agent.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Fifteen percent.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. So, what does your, what does an agent do for that 15%?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, my, I love, cherish, and adore my agent. I will go to bat for that woman. No one can touch her.
[00:39:06.510]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: No one can hurt my Helen. [CHUCKLING] This, she is in the UK, so she is five hours ahead of me. And if I were to message her right now, I would get a message back from her in 10 minutes. Not because I told her to do this, but because she’s that dedicated to us and to her team. As I mentioned, the novel was originally 93,000 words. And that was because again, I was aware of what I was querying this. This book is different from the market in a lot of ways. And so, I wanted to give them as few reasons as possible to turn it down. Length being one of them.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: The longer your book is, the more expensive it is for them to publish.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And Helen said “Absolutely not. This book needs to breathe. Give it. Give it the space to breathe.” And so that’s how we added 40,000 words to it.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm. Wow.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And one of the reasons why I also had very few revisions that I needed to do is because of how editorially focused my agent was.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
[00:40:02.850]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Again, that, that thing about the feelings…
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …that was where it is now, is from her pushing. And so, I will always, always, appreciate Helen for all she’s done.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That is not universally shared. I too, know horror stories of other agents or “shmagents,” even. So, it’s really just getting the good person, right person.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. It’s, you know, it’s an important relationship. You know, your relationship with your agent. My agent is someone I’ve been friends with for, gosh, probably over 30 years. He was my editor. He bought my, he was the editor of my first book.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, wow.
PAUL WITCOVER: And then he left the editing biz and joined an agency. And so, I, he became my agent. So, and it’s been, you know, it’s been a, you know, it’s a very, very close relationship.
[00:40:57.939]
PAUL WITCOVER: But not, but like you say, they’re not all like that [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS LAUGHING]. You know, and sometimes, and ultimately, I guess always, it’s a business relationship, right? Because this is the person who’s representing you, who’s, who you’re trusting to make deals for you, and who you trust to have your best interests at heart. But the time may come when that’s not true anymore.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, and that is true. And even in the tenure that I’ve had with my agent, she has lost some clients. And again, she is a fantastic fit for me, but she might not be a fantastic fit for everybody.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And if I, I remembered what I had lost my train of thought about earlier, which was that as you’re querying your book, or you’re trying to get your book out there, you are trying to find a series of soulmates for your book. And I don’t use that word lightly. You are looking for an agent who is gonna champion your book.
[00:41:48.870]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: An editor who is going to champion your book because there is so much rejection along the way that it’s not just a “Oh, I think it’s a commercially successful, commercially viable book, so let me sell it.” That’s never gonna work because all it takes is one no and they’re gonna drop you. You need someone who is going to be passionate about you and your work. So, hold out for that.
PAUL WITCOVER: And you know, when you were saying that, the third party, of the soulmate variety, I guess is the reader, right?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh yes.
PAUL WITCOVER: Because you wanna have your, you wanna have a core group of readers who are going to be, you know, super invested in what you’re writing and what you’re doing and who really gets you. So, when you’re writing, do you write with a particular reader or readers in mind? Do you have, like your ideal reader, that you’re sort of aiming toward as you write?
[00:42:40.810]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Well, I remember that being an assignment that I needed to do, [PAUL WITCOVER AND AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS LAUGHING] which was to get my target audience, which I believe I answered as BIPOC, queer, or female-identifying readers between the ages of 25 and 40. I think that was like the broad category.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But ultimately, I just wanted, I wanted to write the stories that I like to read and I wanted to just stay true to that because I feel like if you’re chasing trends or you’re chasing tropes, you’re, you’re always gonna be behind the curve first and foremost. And then, you’re not going to, again, be passionate about something that you will have to fight for. So, for me, it was, I’m gonna write what I wanna write, and trust that there is a market for that. And so far, so good.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. Well, you know, I have to say, you know, it’s so refreshing to listen to you talk about all this.
[00:43:31.300]
PAUL WITCOVER: You’re a young writer. You’re just about to publish your first book. But you’re speaking with the wisdom of an older writer, the writer who, who has like been through a lot and suffered a lot and, and come to a place of understanding and acceptance. So, I really, I wanna compliment you for that. I think that is going to stand you in good stead, you know, because you’re not gonna get a swollen head, you know, you’re not gonna let the ego of it all, it’s not gonna overwhelm you. That I have, I feel that very strongly. You’re gonna be able to stay focused on your writing, and on the important things that matter in the career of a writer.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I just, maybe, whenever I sent you that email about being announced as an “Amazon pick”…
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …that’s the first moment in this process that I stopped doubting my skill as an author.
PAUL WITCOVER: Okay. [LAUGHING]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: If that tells you anything.
[00:44:25.139]
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. Well, I stopped doubting your skill as a writer within the first page of reading your novel. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS CHUCKLING] So, here’s another question. Are you planning on staying with this genre in the future, or do you have a different idea for future projects? If so, would there be issues with your publisher if you pivoted? Mostly, I wonder what happens when an author decides to do something different.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, my publisher has first rights options, which is whatever story I come up with next, they have the first, the first rights to be able to read it…
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …and decide whether or not they want to publish it or not.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. That’s, the next book that you do after the sequel?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Correct.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Yes. And I have at present at least five different story ideas that I’ve been tinkering around with. Female rage seems to be real hip right now, so we might be veering in that capacity. [CHUCKLING]
[00:45:20.229]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But I also have this, like, grim. So, in the story where they say necromancers don’t get brought back because what comes back isn’t them, it’s because it opens a portal to like a necromancer world where essentially people are using zombies and undead for chess pieces. Like that’s a, that’s a story that’s like in the back of my head that I want so much, so much to tap into.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes. Very cool.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I don’t think Ace will be interested in that one. And I’ve made peace with it because again, I didn’t do this, I didn’t do this for the money cause Lord knows the money is not guaranteed. I did this to tell the stories I wanted to tell.
PAUL WITCOVER: Right. And I mean, I think one thing to stress for our listeners is that, you know, you might be with a particular agent for a long portion of your career…
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm.
PAUL WITCOVER: …like I’ve been and like, like you might be with your agent, but it’s very unlikely that you’re gonna be with one publisher for the duration of your career.
[00:46:16.760]
PAUL WITCOVER: You know, you only sell a book or two books or maybe a trilogy or something. But generally speaking, you’re gonna be represented or published by a lot of different publishers over the course of your career. That’s just how it works. Unless you’re somebody like John Scalzi, who signs like a multi-million dollar contract with a single publisher for a set number of books. Very, very unusual publishing deal.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: One of my agent siblings, she writes contemporary romance. I can’t remember what it is, but she actually wants to branch off into another genre. And she is staying with our agent, Helen, but is also seeking additional representation for that work so that you can, as far as I know, you can, you can do that.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes. You know, it’s funny, you mentioned that because I, I have interviewed, I can’t remember who it was, but I did interview a writer, a few years ago.
[00:47:11.149]
PAUL WITCOVER: That was, that had also done the same thing where he had a one agent for one of his genres. I think it was, I think, I think maybe he wrote like most of his stuff was adult. You know, adult-oriented books of whatever genre. And then, he also was branching out into, like, middle grade or something.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, that’s a job. That’s a job. [LAUGHING]
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. Yeah, it was so foreign. I mean, the agent really couldn’t represent him in that, he just had no contacts, no experience. So, they were able to work out a deal where essentially you had two agents. And so, I think that is possible. You know, these days the publishing world is changing so quickly.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: [WHISPERING] So much.
PAUL WITCOVER: I feel like agents are more open now to arrangements that they might not have been open to in the past. And the same is true of publishers.
[00:48:04.060]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: If you, if you look at the success of Daggermouth and a couple of other books where again, they became very commercially successful as, as indie books, but then they get picked up and get the validation of traditional publishing and they get a book that they already know is gonna make them money, it’s, it’s again, it’s a business at the end of the day.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yep. And, you know, we had, the last month, we had a Word For Word panel of two women who were, you know, very knowledgeable in the publishing industry. And Jane Friedman was one of them.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: She’s amazing.
PAUL WITCOVER: And yeah, she really knows her stuff. One of the things that she said was like, you know, the, the thing that’s, like, really hot right now in publishing is, is basically publishers picking up these indie releases and re-releasing them.
[00:48:54.360]
PAUL WITCOVER: And we were kind of talking about it or thinking about it in the context of, well, later anyway, of the context of that, of that book. What’s it called? Shy Girl? That was, that was just dropped from its publisher, for the writer or editor, depending on who you believe, having used AI, and, but, but it speaks to the, you know, the, her publisher was so eager for that book, so eager to grab something that was an indie success and, and publish it traditionally that they probably didn’t vet it to the extent that they should have.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And I will, I will never sit here and say that my editorial team were not on top of me. But, I know from, again, ongoing conversations with other authors, the less work that an editor feels like they have to do for you is the less amount of work that they’re going to do for you.
[00:49:51.360]
PAUL WITCOVER: Right. Right. [CHUCKLING]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That’s it.
PAUL WITCOVER: Lemme ask you about, since I brought up AI, what are your feelings about AI as a writer?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I believe, broadly speaking, that AI is a tool that can be used to address many of humanity’s problems. Do I believe that that should be creatively? No. Personally, I personally would not. How can I phrase this? Part of being a writer is honing the skills of being a writer. If someone else is doing that for you, you are not a writer. I actually had an unfortunate incident where I commissioned character art for my characters, and I had been given line art. I had been given a time lapse of them doing the work, and come to find out that it was AI.
PAUL WITCOVER: Oh gosh.
[00:50:46.679]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And, and of course then was very upset because I had already posted these things to the world [LAUGHING] and then of course, had to take them down because I, as an artist, as a, as a literary artist, recognize the time, effort, and energy that I have put into my work. And if for no other reason than the fact that AI was trained on our work without our knowledge or consent…
PAUL WITCOVER: Yep.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …I can never get behind that. I can never get behind that.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. I’m glad to hear you say that. I feel exactly the same. So. But I was interested in what you said about, commissioning, commissioning character art. Was this art that you had commissioned just for your own use to help you better visualize your characters in the story?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: No, I think I saw someone in the comments talking about the the influencer age. I, [CHUCKLING] I am not an influencer. I am not a content creator.
[00:51:40.870]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I come across as a very extroverted person, but that’s because I know I have to be an extroverted person in this process. If left to my own devices, we wouldn’t even be probably doing this. [PAUL WITCOVER CHUCKLING] And so commissioning the art, creating all of the graphics that you’ve ever seen me posting, that’s me again, using the skills that are available to me to market myself …
PAUL WITCOVER: Okay.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …I because until recently it was just me.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yep. Very interesting.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I need what I need to.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes. No, you seem like you’re an incredibly organized and efficient person, so I have no doubt [AMBER CHUCKLING] that you’ll continue to be successful in that. In that vein. All right. Let me grab another, another question here. Do you still and it kind of fits right in, do you still have to do a lot of marketing of your own marketing, even though you’re going through a major publisher?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I am an exceptionally fortunate author in that I do have some.
[00:52:36.429]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I like, how can I phrase this? From roughly the cover reveal to maybe January, was all me. That’s only all, all in my word of mouth posting, sharing, so on and so forth. And that’s just because publishing knows and their will say in their wisdom that you’re not going to need that much exposure until much closer to the book. So, I like to think I gave them a little bit of momentum, but they also were sharing to their thousands of newsletters, and doing and doing their own work behind the scenes. So, it’s very much, they didn’t require me to do anything, but I thought it would behoove me to do so.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes, I think, I think so. I mean, I feel as though these days the smart writer does as much as they can for themselves. You can’t really.
[00:53:29.929]
PAUL WITCOVER: I mean, if you, I mean, you have a big deal with your American publisher, so they’ve invested enough money in you to make it worth their while. I mean, they have to market you because [AMBER LAUGHING] that’s the only way that they’re gonna earn their wins back, right? So, so it’s to their benefit to do that, but not every writer gets that same deal. Like, for example, if you hadn’t sold your book in the US and just had your advance from Gallant, the marketing campaign would look very different.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Just a little bit.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I had been I had been promised a marketing or publishing plan for two years before I finally got it. And I think in the meantime, I had reached out to some other writers just to figure out what that should be expecting, what that should look like. The average number of pages of their, of their marketing plans that I received was about two or three. I had a six-page marketing plan and that that’s how I knew, “Oh, they, they’re, they’re putting their money where their mouth is.”
[00:54:26.500]
PAUL WITCOVER: Uhuh. Yeah. All right, let’s see. I wanna make sure that I can get as many questions as possible since we’re coming to the end of our hour already.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, wow.
PAUL WITCOVER: Okay, here’s a good question. With today’s influencer content driven world, are you online much? And if so, how do you balance authenticity with visible persona? And you were just talking about that, about how you, you kind of, you know, create this extroverted persona to do the work that you have to do, you know, to, I don’t know, establish your brand, I guess you might say. So, how do you keep that balance between who you really are and who you have to present yourself as?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, when I was primarily on TikTok, I had to get real comfortable with being on camera quite a bit more.
[00:55:15.719]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But then they threatened to go away. And so, I stopped getting on camera and I realized I don’t have to do it anymore. And so, for the past almost year, I would say it was almost exclusively just images that I created off of Canva. I spent an obnoxious [LAUGHING] amount of time on Canva. Just so again, I can constantly churn out content. I think, I had even done like three months’ worth of content planning in preparation for all of this. So, for me, I only, I only do when I only post the things that again, make sense to me. I am, I’m not going to get in front of a camera and be bright, bubbly, and effervescent when that’s not who I am as a person. It was very much finding, finding what worked for me. And that is still very much a process because I know I have to get on camera very soon. [LAUGHING]
[00:56:10.419]
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. Well, what’s lined up for you? What is lined up for you in the in the near future? Like around the launch of your book and everything.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, I will have my in-person signing next Tuesday. I am going to be having a podcast interview with “We Publish Beloved,” I believe the following Saturday. Indigo, the flagship store in Toronto, may or may not be trying to put something together because I randomly mentioned to my agent siblings that I was going to be in that area and one of them started making phone calls.
PAUL WITCOVER: Oh, wow.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Yeah, it’s a wild ride. I keep telling myself.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But, I admittedly kept that week light because again, I’m still also a working professional. I took Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday off, but I will have to go back to work Thursday and Friday because bill still gotta get paid.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. Right. Right. The glamorous life of a writer.
[00:57:06.669]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: My job knows that they have me until 2030.
PAUL WITCOVER: Let’s see what else we’ve got here. [PAUSE] Oh, what about, you know, the world of streaming and TV and films? Has there been any interest there in your book?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: There was an inquiry that I have no idea where or what’s going on with it, but am I allowed to say names? I don’t think it matters. But I did not know that Andy Serkis has a production company, but apparently…
PAUL WITCOVER: Oh wow.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: … he has a production company. [CHUCKLING]
[00:58:04.564]
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes, he does.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Yeah. And reached out to read it. I don’t know what has happened since then. I don’t know whether or not they lost interest or not, but even just having that was kinda crazy.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, it’s very cool. Well, I mean, you think about it, you know, your story is set in New Orleans primarily, you know, that’s very, photogenic city, full of atmosphere. And you’ve also got all this gothic stuff going on and it’s very sexy in places. So, I could definitely see it being picked up somewhere.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I hope so.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, I hope so as well. I can say, “Hey, I knew that person.” Yes, I’m going to throw the link to your book into the chat one more time so that anybody who might be interested in pre-ordering it and, you know, pre-orders really help the author, by the way.
[00:58:59.120]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Yes. So, fun fact about that. The, it is a vicious cycle in publishing where publishers do not push authors unless the market responds to them, but the market cannot respond to people that are not pushed to them. So, one of the ways that publishers know whether or not to push
someone is pre-orders because pre-orders is I have already given you my money when it’s not even available. So, if you want to support an author, pre-order.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes. And if you wanna support this author, pre-order, I mean, there’s 21 people here in the chat. And if you take, Amber-Nicole out and me out, that’s 19 people. [AMBER LAUGHING] 19 order pre-orders, that’d be pretty good.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh my gosh.
PAUL WITCOVER: So just think about it.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: It would be kind if you did, but you’re under no obligation for me. [PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING]
PAUL WITCOVER: However, I will fail you if you don’t. No, I’m just kidding. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS CHUCKLING] No. I’m just. I won’t do that. I can’t, don’t have the power to do that.
[00:59:54.810]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Love that attitude.
PAUL WITCOVER: So anyway, that really brings us to the end of our night. Amber-Nicole, thank you so much for reading for us, and sharing your wisdom, and, you know, your, steps that you’ve taken so far in your journey and I’m really gonna be rooting for you in the months to come. I hope you, hope you have a fantastic launch. And the book does really, really well.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Here’s hoping. And again, thank you so much for having me. Thank you for SNHU for taking a chance on me. And if anyone has any questions, please feel free to reach out to me on any of my socials, if you would like to email me, it’s savanna verse books at gmail dot com. So, I’m available, and I’m happy to help any other writers.
PAUL WITCOVER: And I’ll be happy to forward anything to Amber-Nicole if anybody wants to do it that way. All right. And Amber-Nicole, stay in touch.
[01:00:47.159]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: We’ll most definitely do. Have a good night, everyone.
PAUL WITCOVER: All right. Good night, everybody.
[00:00:03.779]
PAUL WITCOVER: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the April, I can’t believe it’s April already, Wireside Chat with my special guest, Amber-Nicole Stephens. Amber-Nicole’s first novel is coming out, I think next week, isn’t that, right?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Next Tuesday.
PAUL WITCOVER: Next Tuesday, very exciting. And I’m actually gonna share a picture of the cover of her novel because I think it’s so awesome. Can you all see that? Now that’s a cover. That is a great cover. That’s something that’s gonna grab people from across the bookstore.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That was very much the intention.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes, it’s just awesome. I love the pinks, and the blues, and purples.
[00:00:49.919]
PAUL WITCOVER: Just a great cover. And I also would like to share this link, which will take you to bookshop dot org, which is where you will be able to order a copy of Amber-Nicole’s book. So, Amber-Nicole is going to read for us first, and feel free to preface your reading any way you like, any context you care to give. And then when you’re done, I’ll come back on, and we can start chatting.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Okay. Remind me, Paul, how much time I have.
PAUL WITCOVER: You can read for like, let’s say, between 5 and 10 minutes, whatever you feel like in that span.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That’s perfect, [CHUCKLING] that’s perfect.
[00:01:39.580] Hello, everyone. My name is Amber-Nicole Stephens. I am writing under the pen name of Savannah Stephens. I will be reading tonight from my debut novel, “Witch Queen Rising,” and I would like to start with just the back of the book, in case anyone who has not heard it before. For Witch Queens, or excuse me, for New Orleans Witch clan, there is no greater honor than to become the Prime, chosen to rule. But the title is meant to pass between two rival houses of magic, not to the wayward daughter of the former Prime, who died under mysterious circumstances. As a girl, Seraphine Berreau was dubbed the tic witch for her ability to feed on magic and make it her own. Even among those who could alter fate and manipulate reality, she was a powerful outcast, and feared by her people.
[00:02:28.610]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Now, dragged back to continue the legacy, she nearly, that nearly destroyed her, Phine has her work cut out for her. She must earn the respect of her people, navigate the politics of the paranormal communities residing in her city, and heal from a broken heart, all while battling a parasitic curse. Between all these things, Phine must learn to make peace with her past, to save herself, and all of Witchkin’s future. Before I continue, was audio okay for that?
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes, it was more than okay. There was actually a comment saying with your voice, you could be a voice actress.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, that is so kind. I would love to. I’m certainly open to doing that.
PAUL WITCOVER: Is there an audio book of your novel?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: There is. It was actually narrated by Chanté McCormick, who is a voice actor I’ve seen several books from, and she’s fantastic.
[00:03:20.139]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, I was not tapped for this. But who knows, in the future.
PAUL WITCOVER: In the future, you do really have a great voice, so I think that would be definitely an option.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Thank you friends. Without further ado then, I will start with chapter one. “A surge of energy jolted Phine awake. Not the wake-up-refreshed-from-a-nap kind of energy, or the artificial high of too much caffeine. Instead, she woke to the universe mistaking her for a lightning rod… and by the Stars did it hurt? Joints locked, limbs twisting as muscle and sinew strained beneath her skin. A scream clawing up her throat, she tumbled out of her bed onto cool floorboards. There, she thrashed like a catfish, caught on a line, while wave after wave of ancient power crashed into her body.
[00:04:11.309] Without her Well, the vessel inside herself for magic, the power had nowhere to go. There was too much of it, and not enough of her. Pain lit up her senses while she struggled to focus. Her mind’s eye conjured the image of a deep stone well, its opening sealed shut with glowing chains. Long ago, she had sealed her Well to start a new life. Now, that life depended on breaking those chains before this great and terrible power could break her body. She hissed as the chains constricted around her in the real world. The crushing pressure bore down on her, building in her bones until she cried out. She needed the incantation to break the warding. She began wading through memories, desperate to save herself.
[00:04:58.279] Just as her vision began to blur, she remembered. Reap what was sown. Release what was bound. Return what was lost. The chains flared, then crumbled into glittering dust that floated away. With the floodgates open, the magic flowed home, its unrelenting waves mellowed to soft ripples that tingled but no longer made her skin feel two sizes too small. She came back to herself with a grasp, with a deep gasp. Still on her back, she dragged air into seared lungs and groaned. The stillness after the city roar found her through brick, mortar and steel. Heavy metal blared from the apartment above her, but not loud enough to drown out the baby crying across the hall. Someone yelled at it for it to be quiet between banging on the walls.
[00:05:48.329] When she opened her eyes, the room was dark save for dancing lights along the wall. But the sun had set hours ago and that color was wrong. Head throbbing, she brought her palm towards her forehead but stopped inches from her face. Her right hand was surrounded by shifting currents of midnight blue and black light. The light was radiating across every inch of her skin. It was coming from her. No, she thought, as a pit of dread opened inside her. It should be impossible. This power, the power of the Prime should never have come to her. She was lucky to be alive. But that was more than could be said for someone back home. For her to be cresting on this ocean of magic, someone who should be near and dear to her was now dearly departed.
[00:06:40.579] One does not become the Prime by choice. The Heart of the Land chose the successor when the old Prime returned to it, which meant she was in big trouble because of the magic found her, her family could too. Phine crawled to her feet, stumbling across the room in search of and then finding a switch. Muted light flicked on in the tiny studio. It wasn’t much to write home about, a full-size mattress on a box spring, a bureau, and a nightstand just shy from a tiny, outdated kitchen. No TV or photos. No knickknacks or homey touches. Those were for people who weren’t always a moment away from skipping town, and that moment was now. She threw open drawers and tossed clothes back onto the bed, dragged on jeans and a tank top, and grabbed a leather jacket. The scent grounded her, helping her push away the instinct to panic.
[00:07:33.190] She started ticking off the steps she’d planned for just this moment. Rent was paid. The landlord knew if she wasn’t there the first of the month, she wasn’t coming back. Her emergency bag was in the car, already stocked with two weeks of toiletries, water, and non-perishable foods. She would call work once she was out of the city, as they’d otherwise be expecting her in a few hours. She scanned the bare room. Nothing stood out as essential. There wasn’t anything she couldn’t do without. Which was good because she could never come back. As a dark presence from the South broke over the horizon of her mind’s eye, she faced that direction. The feeling crept closer, like storm clouds rolling in. They were already in the city.
[00:08:16.959] She stuffed everything she could grab into a carry-on bag and bolted for the door. Outside her building, her 1970 Plymouth Barracuda waited for her. She tossed her bag in the trunk and climbed in. The monstrous engine roared to life and she sped off into the night. She went from waking to on the road in 12 minutes flat. She hoped it would be enough. Heading north with a single-minded focus of the hunted, she wove through traffic as fast as she dared. As the presence grew closer, the shadow she’d sensed earlier became a pressure in the back of her skull. By the time she was halfway out of the city, it loomed like a tidal wave. Her grip on the steering wheel tightened until the leather creaked beneath her fingers. She’d spent 10 years hiding. Now, despite all that careful, calculated isolation, it had only taken them 25 minutes to find her.
[00:09:09.849] But if she could get across the river, she could find her safe house and ward it with her power. She could… ’Stop the car, Seraphine.’ A man’s voice in her mind made her jump, and she narrowly missed rear-ending a cab. Cursing under her breath, she got the car under control, and accelerated again. ’Seraphine Barreau. Stop this car.’ ’Saints and stars,’ she yelled. By the time the vioce, this time the voice wasn’t in her head. It was right next to her in the passenger seat. She veered down a side street and parked. When her heart crept down from out of her throat, she glared at her new guests. Sharply dressed in a patterned tuxedo and top hat, her mother’s stewart regarded her with equal parts scorn and satisfaction. A sigh heaved out of her.
[00:09:58.049] Of all the people they could send to ferry her back, why did it have to be him? ’Time to go home,’ he said, his yacht accent thick. He grabbed her hand and the static tingle of magic surrounded her. Every cell, every fiber of her being charged, just before she was pulled back to the one place she dreaded returning to. She’d closed her eyes against the nausea of teleportation, so it was her nose that told her where she landed. The air was rich with the scent of mossy trees, and deep water, jasmine, and witch hazel. She was back in New Orleans. She was home.” [PAUSE] That’s the prologue.
[00:10:42.700]
PAUL WITCOVER: That is so awesome. Thank you so much for sharing that. I wanna remind everyone that if you have questions for Amber-Nicole or comments, please put them in the chat. So many things I would like to talk to you about and ask you about. I guess the first thing though is, I just wanna comment on the lushness of your prose, and the gorgeous attention to detail in your prose. Everything is described with such just caring and attention. So, I wanna ask you how, how do you build your scenes and your settings with that level of attention to the description?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Well, it is certainly a process. I wish I could say that that naturally flowed out of me. I’m actually the type of person where I need to get all of the skeleton down. So, I need to get the beats, the dialogue, this, that and the third. And then once that’s in, that’s when we start coming back for the feelings.
[00:11:47.789]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: The most consistent feedback that I actually get from my agent is, “Where are the feelings?” [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS AND PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING] And so it’s not something that comes naturally to me, but it just, I started thinking of all the things that I would want in order to be immersed into a world. And so, I try to approach things from all five of the senses. Six, depending on which part of the book we’re in. And I just try to build it out from there. As a long time lover of fantasy, one of the things I especially appreciated about it is the ability to lose yourself in a book. And so, I wanted to write stories that were like that.
PAUL WITCOVER: Here’s a great question I’m gonna pull out of the chat. Do you have a background as a witch [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS LAUGHING] or were you inspired by something or someone or a mix of both?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I have, I’ve been affectionately referred to as a witch for most of my life. [PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING] As you may or may not see, I have fangs.
[00:12:38.320]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: We fully committed to the brand. I have claws. It’s a whole thing. [PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING] I would consider myself Pagan and a spiritualist, but I don’t know if I would call myself Wicca or witch in the way that most people would think of it.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm. One of the other things that and, you know, I wanna just, you know, far be it from me to, to contradict your agent, but there, it seems to me that the feeling and feelings are so present in what you read and what I’ve read. I mean, I’ve almost finished your book now. I was racing against time. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS CHUCKLING] You know, I wanted to finish it before we had our event tonight, and I was reading as quickly as I could, but I couldn’t read that quickly, because it’s so beautifully written. So, I had to also pace myself. You know what I mean?
[00:13:28.630]
PAUL WITCOVER: So, anyway, I feel like, you know, there’s such strong feelings on every page. And I think that’s a testament to the approach that you’ve taken, of, kind of, going back multiple times and layering in the various elements of your story world. How many times, how many times do you go back and revise a piece or this piece, for example?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I think, seriously? Seriously? Actually, no, let’s start from the beginning. So finish the book, I believe June-ish of 2021. I did that to try to get into a fellowship, which I didn’t get into. Came back for another round of revisions to query the book. And then after querying, I went through major revisions. So, I guess three to four, I would say.
[00:14:17.969]
PAUL WITCOVER: Okay, so actually, as long as we’re on this topic, we might as well keep going. Why don’t you tell us your journey to publication, which you mentioned, was a relatively short one.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: It was entirely nonsensical. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS AND PAUL WITCOVER CHUCKLING] I had been hearing horror stories from people for months at this point about how people’s writing careers essentially go to die in the query trenches, and I am an organizer, and a planner. I’m also a plotter. And so, I quite literally went through every agent profile on querytracker dot com, in the US, [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS CHUCKLING] to make a spreadsheet with rounds of all of the agents that I essentially plan to go and query for. The first agent I queried, who rejected me in less than 24 hours, mind you, told me, “Do not give up.”
[00:15:09.304]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: “Do not lose heart,” that he had been rejected 292 times before he got his one offer of representation. And so with that in mind, brain said, “Oh, we need, we need a spreadsheet. We need lots, lots and lots of things.” [PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING] Only, for me to happen to be stumbling through my manuscript wishlist on Twitter at the time, and I saw this lovely woman who mentioned that she was a junior agent who was opening herself up to queries at the beginning of the month, I went and I looked into her, into the agency itself. Liked what I saw, and I said, “Let’s see what happens.” And so, six weeks after starting querying, and she was my sixth agent, I received an offer of representation.
PAUL WITCOVER: That’s fantastic. [PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, I did a whole bunch of legwork in order to stumble upon my agent.
[00:16:04.200]
PAUL WITCOVER: Right, but, you know, I feel like all of that stuff happens for a reason. You know, you were, you were getting yourself mentally into the space that you needed to be in.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, I was prepared for pain. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS AND PAUL WITCOVER CHUCKLING] Like the way, the way people talk about it, it’s traumatizing. And so, I was just trying my best not to be one of those people or to do everything in my power to avoid that.
PAUL WITCOVER: So, take a step-by-step through the journey. So, you apply through manuscript, through manuscript.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: What was it? Query tracker. Yes.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, the agent who’s just on Twitter who happens to say like, “I’m opening up my, you know, for submissions, for queries,” for a particular period of time, and you submit, and you, and she comes back to you with an offer.
[00:16:49.989]
PAUL WITCOVER: So, take us from there through the process of working with the agent, submitting to a publisher, being offered a deal from the publisher to where you are today.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, I signed with my agent September 18th of 2023, if I remember correctly. The years might be a blur at this point, to actually, then is that how that worked? So, to finish the book in order to then go up submission, this was my Capstone project actually…
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …to finish and do the revisions for Witch Queen Rising. And so, by the time I had submitted it for graduation, we then went on submission, I think two weeks later. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS CHUCKLING]
PAUL WITCOVER: Wow.
[00:17:32.979]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, that would have been would have been May 2nd, if I remember correctly, and I was fortunate in that the editor who would eventually offer on me said that she was interested from the second week, which would have been crazy. But I think they had been trying to package it between the UK side and the US side…
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …and that caused a bit of a delay. But all things considered, I received my verbal offer, September, on the day like a year to the anniversary of signing with my agent…
PAUL WITCOVER: Wow, wow.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …September 18th.
PAUL WITCOVER: And just to let people know your book is coming out simultaneously in the UK from Glance, which is a very prestigious publisher of speculative fiction in the UK and in the US from Penguin Random House, which is also a very prestigious publisher.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm. No pressure. It’s fine. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS AND PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING]
[00:18:25.260]
PAUL WITCOVER: I feel, I feel like you’re gonna do great. So, [PAUSE] once you were, once the offer was made, what kind of work did you have to do on the book? And did you have differing editorial feedback from your editor in England and your editor in the US?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, that too was an interesting ride. Essentially, it boiled down to, and just just rolled with me here for a second, who paid for me more?
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, Gollancz’s offer was modest, but, what is it? Who are those people? Ace. Actually, it was a nice deal.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I was offered a six-figure deal, and…
PAUL WITCOVER: Oh. That’s great.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, at that point, Gollancz said, “This is your baby. So, you can do most of the editorial work.”
PAUL WITCOVER: Okay.
[00:19:11.030]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I was fortunate in that there were no cuts, now that I think about it. They, I really just, I think I added maybe 10,000 words, like, whatever there were gaps in that, the editor thought was, that’s pretty much what I added to the book.
PAUL WITCOVER: Okay.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Again, I was very, very fortunate.
PAUL WITCOVER: And you sold I mean, this is the first book of a, of a two book deal.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm.
PAUL WITCOVER: So, did you already have the second book written?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: No. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS LAUGHING]
PAUL WITCOVER: When? No. [CHUCKLING]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, it’s still not written.
PAUL WITCOVER: So, where are you now in terms of, like, completing the second book?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, I am 85,000 words of what I am hoping to be 100,000.
PAUL WITCOVER: Okay.
[00:19:50.310]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: When I queried the book, it was 93,000, and it got up to 136 by the time it was ready for publication. And since this is my first time writing a sequel, writing the conclusion of a duology…
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I wanted to have again what I thought would be the good framework for the novel. And then between my agent and my editors, and I have a proposed list of additional scenes, we’ll see what needs to be added from there.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, let me pull another question out of the chat. Do you see yourself in any other author? Are you inspired by anyone?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: The very first author that came to mind was Toni Morrison. If in case it shows on the screen, I actually work for Syracuse University. And come to find out, Toni Morrison had worked for Syracuse University…
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: … while she had been on the East Coast.
[00:20:40.000]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Between her, Octavia Butler, James Baldwin, that is my holy trinity of writers.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, yes
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Personally, but in terms of fantasy, I would say, of course, Anne Rice, Laurell K. Hamilton, Patricia Briggs, Kim Harrison. Who else? Sarah Douglas and Jacqueline Carey, those were like my formative, like deep immersive writers I remember reading.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. It’s interesting that you mentioned, you know, Baldwin and Morrison. And actually even, oh gosh, why am I blanking… on Octavia Butler. Cause Octavia Butler is known more for science fiction…,
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Yes.
PAUL WITCOVER: In the speculative world than she is for fantasy.
[00:21:32.329]
PAUL WITCOVER: Even though I suppose you could say that “Kindred” is sort of a fantasy novel and then of course, Morrison had elements of fantasy, I guess, you might say magical realism in some of her work. Like, “Beloved,” of course, is definitely. Baldwin, not so much, just a beautiful writer. So, I’m curious about what drew you to the fantastic side of things, the fantasy side of things.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, I was fortunate in that I grew up with a poet. My mother is a poet. She is also a writer. I grew up surrounded by books, but oddly enough, I was the fantasy child of my primarily science-fiction family.
PAUL WITCOVER: Interesting.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And have deep appreciation for it. Happy to watch it, but I always, how can I phrase this?
[00:22:23.069]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I think science is just magic we understand, and I’m drawn to the unknown, is I guess, I will say it.
PAUL WITCOVER: [CHUCKLING] That’s great. Well, so your mom is a poet.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm. My mom is a poet. [CHUCKLING]
PAUL WITCOVER: Alright. Well, I mean, I feel like, now I have a more of an understanding of your facility with language. I mean, you must have, what does your mom think of your writing?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I am very fortunate in that the relationship I have with my mother is not the relationship Phine has with hers. I wanna be clear about that, [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS AND PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING] for those who may or may not have read the book yet. But how can I, repeat the question, I apologize.
PAUL WITCOVER: Well, I’m just curious what your mom and your family think about your work?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, she endorses it.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. Well, good.
[00:23:14.329]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: My mother reached out to me today, asking me if I could find some sort of, like, TeeMoon like shop that will put my, the book cover on earrings, because she wants to walk around with a book cover earrings of my book.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, well, you know, what else would look really good? I don’t have a, I wish I had something I could show people, but each of the chapters in your
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm.
PAUL WITCOVER: …Novel also has kind of a symbol.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh yes.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Attached to it. And that would make an awesome tattoo, for example.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I actually just put in an order today for swag for both my street team and for some people who have just been particularly supportive. And the bookmark is has Savannah’s pride on it, and in the back is this symbol from Which Queen Rising, and only, like, 15 people are gonna get that one.
[00:24:01.390]
PAUL WITCOVER: Very cool. All right, so let’s talk about your pseudonym. So, where does Savannah come from, and what made you decide to adopt a pseudonym in the first place?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, I have a peculiar relationship with my name. So, as you can see, my first name is Amber-Nicole. It is hyphenated. I can introduce myself as Amber-Nicole. People can hear me refer to as Amber-Nicole, read my name as Amber-Nicole, and then for some reason they will still just call me Amber. [PAUL WITCOVER CHUCKLING]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And to avoid being, to avoid just being annoyed, or pissed off, [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS LAUGHING] or just tired of having that constantly, I decided to just opt for a pen name that was simple and easy for people. Savannah worked for both the aesthetic, as I talked about earlier, I’m very feline.
[00:24:51.939]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I have a fondness for lions. So, Savannah…
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …is the home of the lions, and the home of my books.
PAUL WITCOVER: Are you a Leo?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I’m a Sag, actually, but I’ve always been very feline by nature.
PAUL WITCOVER: [LAUGHING] Well, I think Savannah Stephens is a great name. But so is Amber-Nicole. So, I mean, you can’t go wrong.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, and there is also an Amber V Nicole writer, who writes similarly dark fiction.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And so, I think that was also the thought process.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, yeah. That’s, you definitely don’t wanna be mistaken for another writer.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: No. [CHUCKLING]
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, so again, anybody have questions for Amber-Nicole, throw them into the chat, please.
[00:25:37.609]
PAUL WITCOVER: The other thing I wanted to ask you about was the magic system of your novel. It’s very interesting. I mean, you’ve got elements that are familiar from urban fantasies. You know, here we have, you know, a setting in which there are vampires, there’s shifters, there’s the she, the fairy folk, and then the witches are the, I guess the four major players…
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm.
PAUL WITCOVER: …at least, so far as I’ve read. And but, within or against that sort of those familiar trappings, you’ve added a lot of really original stuff that is new on its own, but also, kind of, lends a new shine to some of those older concepts.
[00:26:27.569]
PAUL WITCOVER: The concept of the Well, I think, I thought was very interesting and also just the relationship of the various, supernatural beings to each other. So, can you talk about, like, the world building of your book and how that came about?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That is definitely an amalgamation of, again, all of the inspirations that I enjoyed growing up. There’s elements from Anne Rice, from Laurell K. Hamilton, from Constantine, from the Originals, American horror story "Coven," like, pulled little bits and pieces that I thought would work for everything. But more than anything, I just wanted to create again, like, this rich world that was different enough, again from, again that familiar and foreign aspect of it where I wanted it to be just common enough while still giving you something different to latch on to.
[00:27:20.219]
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, one of the books that it reminded me of, I don’t know if you’ve read this or not, the, it’s a fantasy series by Roger Zelazny, “The Nine Princes in Amber.”
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That sounds, oh, gosh, that sounds familiar. I might have read it years ago.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. The thing about that, that makes me, that reminded me, or that your book reminded me of is, is that’s a book that, you know, it has all these great fantasy elements, but it’s also a family drama. It’s also about the connection between, you know, this extended family, this large family that, you know, has a lot of water under the bridge, a lot of resentments, a lot of old ties.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Feelings...
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes, exactly. All that stuff. And that is, I feel like that, you know, you have a lot of exciting things going on. Like I mentioned, your magic system is really interesting and fun. There’s a lot of, you know, scary stuff that’s happening here.
[00:28:18.250]
PAUL WITCOVER: But there’s also this other level that’s really just about, you know, the family dynamics, and the relationship among siblings, and extended family, and the responsibilities that you owe, the desire to escape from your family, which your protagonist definitely feels until she’s, kind of, roped back in much against her will at first. You know, to being in this position of responsibility for just about everybody. So, I think, I feel like that’s something that makes your book really stand out among fantasies is how much it’s geared to the exploration of these family dynamics.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm, because I think, of course, it’s great to have the magic, it’s great to have the blood, it’s great to have the bells and whistles.
[00:29:11.979]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But ultimately, I like to think that when we read books, we’re reading them for the characters and their stories. And something that was important to me in this process was creating characters that people knew. Good, bad, or otherwise, everybody knows at least one character in this book. And I wanted that familiarity. If for no other reason than for some people can see, what do you do when your parental figure or your sibling or your community at large doesn’t claim you? I want it and it might be a bit grandiose, but I actually wanted to give insights, real life world lessons on…
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …you don’t have to keep people in your life who treat you terribly. You do not have to abide disrespect you. You may not be able to change the people around you, but you can change the people around you.
[00:30:04.469] PAUL WITCOVER: Right? And that’s certainly a journey that Seraphine is on. You know, there’s this, this isn’t really a spoiler, but there’s this, there’s this great scene where she’s kind of snatched away from the real world into the world of all of her ancestors, and she’s faced with some pretty harsh things that are said to her, and some harsh emotions that are expressed that are really kind of devastating. And, you know, one of the things about her, about her character is just really, first of all, she’s an incredible survivor. But secondly, she’s really had a lot to survive. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS LAUGHING] I mean, she really has had a raw deal, you know, almost from the get go, by people that she should have been able to place her trust and faith in, her mother primarily.
[00:30:58.930]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: First and foremost.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Would you believe that at several points in the story, I wondered if there was enough going on?
PAUL WITCOVER: Oh my gosh. [PAUL WITCOVER and AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS LAUGHING]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I put her through the wringer. I think, I can’t even know. Phine is a product of survival and resilience, which I think is something that most people can appreciate. Most people are gonna gravitate towards an underdog, if for no other reason that we have. We have all [CHUCKLING] been through it in various ways.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But I also wanted to, to humanize her in a lot of ways. Like she does have some moments where, where she breaks, where she feels, where she falls apart. And I feel like that’s a part of the strong female protagonist that we don’t get to see very often.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: She has anxiety. I don’t think I say it specifically, but she does have like an undiagnosed anxiety disorder that happens every time something bad, when she needs to breathe. That’s what that little quirk is.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhmm.
[00:31:53.780]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Cause those are very real things.
PAUL WITCOVER: I’m gonna grab a couple more questions out of the chat in just a second. Before I do that, though, the other thing that I wanted to ask you about, because you’ve been through our program, right?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm.
PAUL WITCOVER: And survived. [AMBER INAUDIBLE] And not only survived [AMBER LAUGHING], you thrived, but, you know, a lot of times in the writing biz and, you know, especially as you’re, as you’re in workshops and such, you know, you’re gonna hear like, “Don’t start a story when where somebody is asleep,” you know, “Don’t start a story where just a lot of confusing stuff is happening, and the reader is gonna be like overwhelmed and wondering, what the heck’s going on.” But that’s exactly how [CHUCKLING] this story starts.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Yep.
PAUL WITCOVER: And you manage to pull it off. It doesn’t, it’s like you take, you take something that, you know, you were perhaps warned not to do.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Absolutely. [LAUGHING]
[00:32:48.369]
PAUL WITCOVER: Maybe you took it as a challenge, and said, “I’m gonna do it anyway.” So, what made you start that, start the book that way? And what were the challenges that you had to overcome in order to make it work on a craft level?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, it’s so fascinating because I was unaware that there was this stigma or this disdain for prologues. I was just like, “Oh, a prologue seems right. Lemme just, just throw in this little teaser…
PAUL WITCOVER: Right.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …to get people interested.” And the agent that I had mentioned that had rejected me within 24 hours and who had received 292 rejections, his initial thought was, “She’s waking up and it’s a prologue? No, no, no.” [LAUGHING] So that was, that was it.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That was the only thing that he needed in order to reject my book. But I knew, I knew when I started this process that reading is subjective. What some people love, some people hate, what some people hate, some people love.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
[00:33:41.930]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And so, I wanted to write the story that I wanted to write, that I would want to read. And I knew that there is an audience for it. I just had to get it into the right agent’s hands, the right editor’s hands, the right publisher’s hands.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That’s, that’s the long and short of it.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. Well, that’s, that’s very wise. And I hope everyone that’s here today is listening to that and taking it to heart because I think that’s 100% correct. You know, I like prologues, and a lot of people in the chat, I don’t know if you’re, if you’re seeing that they like it too. But on the other hand, you know, the one thing that I also wanna point out that’s correct is, it’s like, you know, you experienced an agent who just were, was like, “Well, here’s two things that are on my list of things I don’t wanna see. So that’s it, that’s it. I’m not reading anymore.” Right?
[00:34:33.208]
PAUL WITCOVER: And, and that’s the way the agents are. You know, they’re, they are tough, and they, they receive so many manuscripts that they can’t possibly read them all. They don’t have the, they don’t have the luxury of saying like, “Well, you know what, I’m not really into prologues, so I’ll keep reading, and see if chapter one or chapter two grabs me.” Nope. Prologue. That’s it. Out.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And I completely feel for agents because again, as I’ve gone through this process, and even gone through it with my agent, I see the flood, the tsunami of queries that they get. And unfortunately, they don’t get paid to read those.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That’s at their caution, at their discretion. How can I, and I, I’m sorry, I feel like I just keep losing my train of thought. Could you say the thing just before that?
PAUL WITCOVER: Oh, gosh. You’re assuming that I remember my train of thought. [LAUGHING]
[00:35:25.330]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But I think ultimately, what I think people need to understand is that, as long as it’s done well, and not talking about myself, specifically, but as long as it’s done well, there will always be room for it. Vampires were dead until someone made a vampire book that some people like. No one cared about shifters. And then every male protagonist became a shifter. No one cared about the fae, and then the fae became a thing. So, you just have to be that person who gets the ball rolling.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yup. That’s great. And, and I again, I agree with you 100% about that. All right. Here is a question I’m going to ask from the chat. This is about children’s fiction. Do you have any experience writing or reading children’s fiction? Is that something you ever think about doing?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Certainly have read children’s fiction, as a youth. I’m open to telling any story that makes sense to me.
[00:36:22.620]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I’m interested in writing psychological thriller. I’m interested in getting into more horror. I’m interested in writing more romance. It really just depends on the story that’s speaking to me at the time.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yup.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I consider myself a dark fantasy author. And so, anything that falls within that realm is game. I don’t, I don’t see genre as, what is that word? Genre is not a boundary for me. It’s more like a guideline.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm. I mean, there’s certainly a number of different genres that are, you know, playing out against each other in this book. I mean, there’s a strong, you know, romantic sub, romance subplots going on in the book. Mystery, you know, there’s just a, just a lot of different genres, working together. All right, let me pull these questions out of here that I wanted to talk about.
[00:37:19.610]
PAUL WITCOVER: All right, please ignore this if it’s a rude question. So, just tell me if it’s a rude question.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Okay.
PAUL WITCOVER: Can you talk about the financial side? And please don’t mention any, you know, don’t mention numbers. But how do you get…
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I have no problem telling the numbers if you wanna hear the numbers.
PAUL WITCOVER: …well, just like these are the things that this person is interested in. How do you get paid royalties? How does that work and when, when do you get paid? And are you able to make a living off your writing, or do you have to have other work to support yourself?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, at this stage, I am, I still have a day job. Do not quit your day job. Even though I had been offered a $100,000 book deal. Do not quit your day job because the unfortunate reality of the situation is you are not paid that money all up front. It is usually divided up into four payments, over usually two years.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
[00:38:11.060]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, it’s when you sign the contract, when the book gets published, a year after it, and then I think, one other one I can’t remember off the top of my head. And if you earn back whatever they paid you, that is when you are eligible for royalties. And so, it’s an interesting balance where I was all right with Gollancz, offering a very modest number at the time for me, because again, that’s less pressure for me to earn out. It’s much easier for me to earn out $10,000 as opposed to $100,000.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But here we are, and we’re gonna have to do it anyway.
PAUL WITCOVER: Right. I mean, and, you know, also you’re giving a portion of your, of your…
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, yes.
PAUL WITCOVER: …advance to your agent.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Fifteen percent.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. So, what does your, what does an agent do for that 15%?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, my, I love, cherish, and adore my agent. I will go to bat for that woman. No one can touch her.
[00:39:06.510]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: No one can hurt my Helen. [CHUCKLING] This, she is in the UK, so she is five hours ahead of me. And if I were to message her right now, I would get a message back from her in 10 minutes. Not because I told her to do this, but because she’s that dedicated to us and to her team. As I mentioned, the novel was originally 93,000 words. And that was because again, I was aware of what I was querying this. This book is different from the market in a lot of ways. And so, I wanted to give them as few reasons as possible to turn it down. Length being one of them.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: The longer your book is, the more expensive it is for them to publish.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And Helen said “Absolutely not. This book needs to breathe. Give it. Give it the space to breathe.” And so that’s how we added 40,000 words to it.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm. Wow.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And one of the reasons why I also had very few revisions that I needed to do is because of how editorially focused my agent was.
PAUL WITCOVER: Mhm.
[00:40:02.850]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Again, that, that thing about the feelings…
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …that was where it is now, is from her pushing. And so, I will always, always, appreciate Helen for all she’s done.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That is not universally shared. I too, know horror stories of other agents or “shmagents,” even. So, it’s really just getting the good person, right person.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. It’s, you know, it’s an important relationship. You know, your relationship with your agent. My agent is someone I’ve been friends with for, gosh, probably over 30 years. He was my editor. He bought my, he was the editor of my first book.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, wow.
PAUL WITCOVER: And then he left the editing biz and joined an agency. And so, I, he became my agent. So, and it’s been, you know, it’s been a, you know, it’s a very, very close relationship.
[00:40:57.939]
PAUL WITCOVER: But not, but like you say, they’re not all like that [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS LAUGHING]. You know, and sometimes, and ultimately, I guess always, it’s a business relationship, right? Because this is the person who’s representing you, who’s, who you’re trusting to make deals for you, and who you trust to have your best interests at heart. But the time may come when that’s not true anymore.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, and that is true. And even in the tenure that I’ve had with my agent, she has lost some clients. And again, she is a fantastic fit for me, but she might not be a fantastic fit for everybody.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And if I, I remembered what I had lost my train of thought about earlier, which was that as you’re querying your book, or you’re trying to get your book out there, you are trying to find a series of soulmates for your book. And I don’t use that word lightly. You are looking for an agent who is gonna champion your book.
[00:41:48.870]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: An editor who is going to champion your book because there is so much rejection along the way that it’s not just a “Oh, I think it’s a commercially successful, commercially viable book, so let me sell it.” That’s never gonna work because all it takes is one no and they’re gonna drop you. You need someone who is going to be passionate about you and your work. So, hold out for that.
PAUL WITCOVER: And you know, when you were saying that, the third party, of the soulmate variety, I guess is the reader, right?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh yes.
PAUL WITCOVER: Because you wanna have your, you wanna have a core group of readers who are going to be, you know, super invested in what you’re writing and what you’re doing and who really gets you. So, when you’re writing, do you write with a particular reader or readers in mind? Do you have, like your ideal reader, that you’re sort of aiming toward as you write?
[00:42:40.810]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Well, I remember that being an assignment that I needed to do, [PAUL WITCOVER AND AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS LAUGHING] which was to get my target audience, which I believe I answered as BIPOC, queer, or female-identifying readers between the ages of 25 and 40. I think that was like the broad category.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But ultimately, I just wanted, I wanted to write the stories that I like to read and I wanted to just stay true to that because I feel like if you’re chasing trends or you’re chasing tropes, you’re, you’re always gonna be behind the curve first and foremost. And then, you’re not going to, again, be passionate about something that you will have to fight for. So, for me, it was, I’m gonna write what I wanna write, and trust that there is a market for that. And so far, so good.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. Well, you know, I have to say, you know, it’s so refreshing to listen to you talk about all this.
[00:43:31.300]
PAUL WITCOVER: You’re a young writer. You’re just about to publish your first book. But you’re speaking with the wisdom of an older writer, the writer who, who has like been through a lot and suffered a lot and, and come to a place of understanding and acceptance. So, I really, I wanna compliment you for that. I think that is going to stand you in good stead, you know, because you’re not gonna get a swollen head, you know, you’re not gonna let the ego of it all, it’s not gonna overwhelm you. That I have, I feel that very strongly. You’re gonna be able to stay focused on your writing, and on the important things that matter in the career of a writer.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I just, maybe, whenever I sent you that email about being announced as an “Amazon pick”…
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …that’s the first moment in this process that I stopped doubting my skill as an author.
PAUL WITCOVER: Okay. [LAUGHING]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: If that tells you anything.
[00:44:25.139]
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. Well, I stopped doubting your skill as a writer within the first page of reading your novel. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS CHUCKLING] So, here’s another question. Are you planning on staying with this genre in the future, or do you have a different idea for future projects? If so, would there be issues with your publisher if you pivoted? Mostly, I wonder what happens when an author decides to do something different.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, my publisher has first rights options, which is whatever story I come up with next, they have the first, the first rights to be able to read it…
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …and decide whether or not they want to publish it or not.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. That’s, the next book that you do after the sequel?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Correct.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Yes. And I have at present at least five different story ideas that I’ve been tinkering around with. Female rage seems to be real hip right now, so we might be veering in that capacity. [CHUCKLING]
[00:45:20.229]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But I also have this, like, grim. So, in the story where they say necromancers don’t get brought back because what comes back isn’t them, it’s because it opens a portal to like a necromancer world where essentially people are using zombies and undead for chess pieces. Like that’s a, that’s a story that’s like in the back of my head that I want so much, so much to tap into.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes. Very cool.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I don’t think Ace will be interested in that one. And I’ve made peace with it because again, I didn’t do this, I didn’t do this for the money cause Lord knows the money is not guaranteed. I did this to tell the stories I wanted to tell.
PAUL WITCOVER: Right. And I mean, I think one thing to stress for our listeners is that, you know, you might be with a particular agent for a long portion of your career…
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Mhm.
PAUL WITCOVER: …like I’ve been and like, like you might be with your agent, but it’s very unlikely that you’re gonna be with one publisher for the duration of your career.
[00:46:16.760]
PAUL WITCOVER: You know, you only sell a book or two books or maybe a trilogy or something. But generally speaking, you’re gonna be represented or published by a lot of different publishers over the course of your career. That’s just how it works. Unless you’re somebody like John Scalzi, who signs like a multi-million dollar contract with a single publisher for a set number of books. Very, very unusual publishing deal.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: One of my agent siblings, she writes contemporary romance. I can’t remember what it is, but she actually wants to branch off into another genre. And she is staying with our agent, Helen, but is also seeking additional representation for that work so that you can, as far as I know, you can, you can do that.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes. You know, it’s funny, you mentioned that because I, I have interviewed, I can’t remember who it was, but I did interview a writer, a few years ago.
[00:47:11.149]
PAUL WITCOVER: That was, that had also done the same thing where he had a one agent for one of his genres. I think it was, I think, I think maybe he wrote like most of his stuff was adult. You know, adult-oriented books of whatever genre. And then, he also was branching out into, like, middle grade or something.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, that’s a job. That’s a job. [LAUGHING]
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. Yeah, it was so foreign. I mean, the agent really couldn’t represent him in that, he just had no contacts, no experience. So, they were able to work out a deal where essentially you had two agents. And so, I think that is possible. You know, these days the publishing world is changing so quickly.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: [WHISPERING] So much.
PAUL WITCOVER: I feel like agents are more open now to arrangements that they might not have been open to in the past. And the same is true of publishers.
[00:48:04.060]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: If you, if you look at the success of Daggermouth and a couple of other books where again, they became very commercially successful as, as indie books, but then they get picked up and get the validation of traditional publishing and they get a book that they already know is gonna make them money, it’s, it’s again, it’s a business at the end of the day.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yep. And, you know, we had, the last month, we had a Word For Word panel of two women who were, you know, very knowledgeable in the publishing industry. And Jane Friedman was one of them.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: She’s amazing.
PAUL WITCOVER: And yeah, she really knows her stuff. One of the things that she said was like, you know, the, the thing that’s, like, really hot right now in publishing is, is basically publishers picking up these indie releases and re-releasing them.
[00:48:54.360]
PAUL WITCOVER: And we were kind of talking about it or thinking about it in the context of, well, later anyway, of the context of that, of that book. What’s it called? Shy Girl? That was, that was just dropped from its publisher, for the writer or editor, depending on who you believe, having used AI, and, but, but it speaks to the, you know, the, her publisher was so eager for that book, so eager to grab something that was an indie success and, and publish it traditionally that they probably didn’t vet it to the extent that they should have.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And I will, I will never sit here and say that my editorial team were not on top of me. But, I know from, again, ongoing conversations with other authors, the less work that an editor feels like they have to do for you is the less amount of work that they’re going to do for you.
[00:49:51.360]
PAUL WITCOVER: Right. Right. [CHUCKLING]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: That’s it.
PAUL WITCOVER: Lemme ask you about, since I brought up AI, what are your feelings about AI as a writer?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I believe, broadly speaking, that AI is a tool that can be used to address many of humanity’s problems. Do I believe that that should be creatively? No. Personally, I personally would not. How can I phrase this? Part of being a writer is honing the skills of being a writer. If someone else is doing that for you, you are not a writer. I actually had an unfortunate incident where I commissioned character art for my characters, and I had been given line art. I had been given a time lapse of them doing the work, and come to find out that it was AI.
PAUL WITCOVER: Oh gosh.
[00:50:46.679]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: And, and of course then was very upset because I had already posted these things to the world [LAUGHING] and then of course, had to take them down because I, as an artist, as a, as a literary artist, recognize the time, effort, and energy that I have put into my work. And if for no other reason than the fact that AI was trained on our work without our knowledge or consent…
PAUL WITCOVER: Yep.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …I can never get behind that. I can never get behind that.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. I’m glad to hear you say that. I feel exactly the same. So. But I was interested in what you said about, commissioning, commissioning character art. Was this art that you had commissioned just for your own use to help you better visualize your characters in the story?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: No, I think I saw someone in the comments talking about the the influencer age. I, [CHUCKLING] I am not an influencer. I am not a content creator.
[00:51:40.870]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I come across as a very extroverted person, but that’s because I know I have to be an extroverted person in this process. If left to my own devices, we wouldn’t even be probably doing this. [PAUL WITCOVER CHUCKLING] And so commissioning the art, creating all of the graphics that you’ve ever seen me posting, that’s me again, using the skills that are available to me to market myself …
PAUL WITCOVER: Okay.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: …I because until recently it was just me.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yep. Very interesting.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I need what I need to.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes. No, you seem like you’re an incredibly organized and efficient person, so I have no doubt [AMBER CHUCKLING] that you’ll continue to be successful in that. In that vein. All right. Let me grab another, another question here. Do you still and it kind of fits right in, do you still have to do a lot of marketing of your own marketing, even though you’re going through a major publisher?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I am an exceptionally fortunate author in that I do have some.
[00:52:36.429]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I like, how can I phrase this? From roughly the cover reveal to maybe January, was all me. That’s only all, all in my word of mouth posting, sharing, so on and so forth. And that’s just because publishing knows and their will say in their wisdom that you’re not going to need that much exposure until much closer to the book. So, I like to think I gave them a little bit of momentum, but they also were sharing to their thousands of newsletters, and doing and doing their own work behind the scenes. So, it’s very much, they didn’t require me to do anything, but I thought it would behoove me to do so.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes, I think, I think so. I mean, I feel as though these days the smart writer does as much as they can for themselves. You can’t really.
[00:53:29.929]
PAUL WITCOVER: I mean, if you, I mean, you have a big deal with your American publisher, so they’ve invested enough money in you to make it worth their while. I mean, they have to market you because [AMBER LAUGHING] that’s the only way that they’re gonna earn their wins back, right? So, so it’s to their benefit to do that, but not every writer gets that same deal. Like, for example, if you hadn’t sold your book in the US and just had your advance from Gallant, the marketing campaign would look very different.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Just a little bit.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I had been I had been promised a marketing or publishing plan for two years before I finally got it. And I think in the meantime, I had reached out to some other writers just to figure out what that should be expecting, what that should look like. The average number of pages of their, of their marketing plans that I received was about two or three. I had a six-page marketing plan and that that’s how I knew, “Oh, they, they’re, they’re putting their money where their mouth is.”
[00:54:26.500]
PAUL WITCOVER: Uhuh. Yeah. All right, let’s see. I wanna make sure that I can get as many questions as possible since we’re coming to the end of our hour already.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh, wow.
PAUL WITCOVER: Okay, here’s a good question. With today’s influencer content driven world, are you online much? And if so, how do you balance authenticity with visible persona? And you were just talking about that, about how you, you kind of, you know, create this extroverted persona to do the work that you have to do, you know, to, I don’t know, establish your brand, I guess you might say. So, how do you keep that balance between who you really are and who you have to present yourself as?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, when I was primarily on TikTok, I had to get real comfortable with being on camera quite a bit more.
[00:55:15.719]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But then they threatened to go away. And so, I stopped getting on camera and I realized I don’t have to do it anymore. And so, for the past almost year, I would say it was almost exclusively just images that I created off of Canva. I spent an obnoxious [LAUGHING] amount of time on Canva. Just so again, I can constantly churn out content. I think, I had even done like three months’ worth of content planning in preparation for all of this. So, for me, I only, I only do when I only post the things that again, make sense to me. I am, I’m not going to get in front of a camera and be bright, bubbly, and effervescent when that’s not who I am as a person. It was very much finding, finding what worked for me. And that is still very much a process because I know I have to get on camera very soon. [LAUGHING]
[00:56:10.419]
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. Well, what’s lined up for you? What is lined up for you in the in the near future? Like around the launch of your book and everything.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: So, I will have my in-person signing next Tuesday. I am going to be having a podcast interview with “We Publish Beloved,” I believe the following Saturday. Indigo, the flagship store in Toronto, may or may not be trying to put something together because I randomly mentioned to my agent siblings that I was going to be in that area and one of them started making phone calls.
PAUL WITCOVER: Oh, wow.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Yeah, it’s a wild ride. I keep telling myself.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: But, I admittedly kept that week light because again, I’m still also a working professional. I took Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday off, but I will have to go back to work Thursday and Friday because bill still gotta get paid.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah. Right. Right. The glamorous life of a writer.
[00:57:06.669]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: My job knows that they have me until 2030.
PAUL WITCOVER: Let’s see what else we’ve got here. [PAUSE] Oh, what about, you know, the world of streaming and TV and films? Has there been any interest there in your book?
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: There was an inquiry that I have no idea where or what’s going on with it, but am I allowed to say names? I don’t think it matters. But I did not know that Andy Serkis has a production company, but apparently…
PAUL WITCOVER: Oh wow.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: … he has a production company. [CHUCKLING]
[00:58:04.564]
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes, he does.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Yeah. And reached out to read it. I don’t know what has happened since then. I don’t know whether or not they lost interest or not, but even just having that was kinda crazy.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, it’s very cool. Well, I mean, you think about it, you know, your story is set in New Orleans primarily, you know, that’s very, photogenic city, full of atmosphere. And you’ve also got all this gothic stuff going on and it’s very sexy in places. So, I could definitely see it being picked up somewhere.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: I hope so.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, I hope so as well. I can say, “Hey, I knew that person.” Yes, I’m going to throw the link to your book into the chat one more time so that anybody who might be interested in pre-ordering it and, you know, pre-orders really help the author, by the way.
[00:58:59.120]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Yes. So, fun fact about that. The, it is a vicious cycle in publishing where publishers do not push authors unless the market responds to them, but the market cannot respond to people that are not pushed to them. So, one of the ways that publishers know whether or not to push
someone is pre-orders because pre-orders is I have already given you my money when it’s not even available. So, if you want to support an author, pre-order.
PAUL WITCOVER: Yes. And if you wanna support this author, pre-order, I mean, there’s 21 people here in the chat. And if you take, Amber-Nicole out and me out, that’s 19 people. [AMBER LAUGHING] 19 order pre-orders, that’d be pretty good.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Oh my gosh.
PAUL WITCOVER: So just think about it.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: It would be kind if you did, but you’re under no obligation for me. [PAUL WITCOVER LAUGHING]
PAUL WITCOVER: However, I will fail you if you don’t. No, I’m just kidding. [AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS CHUCKLING] No. I’m just. I won’t do that. I can’t, don’t have the power to do that.
[00:59:54.810]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Love that attitude.
PAUL WITCOVER: So anyway, that really brings us to the end of our night. Amber-Nicole, thank you so much for reading for us, and sharing your wisdom, and, you know, your, steps that you’ve taken so far in your journey and I’m really gonna be rooting for you in the months to come. I hope you, hope you have a fantastic launch. And the book does really, really well.
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: Here’s hoping. And again, thank you so much for having me. Thank you for SNHU for taking a chance on me. And if anyone has any questions, please feel free to reach out to me on any of my socials, if you would like to email me, it’s savanna verse books at gmail dot com. So, I’m available, and I’m happy to help any other writers.
PAUL WITCOVER: And I’ll be happy to forward anything to Amber-Nicole if anybody wants to do it that way. All right. And Amber-Nicole, stay in touch.
[01:00:47.159]
AMBER-NICOLE Y STEPHENS: We’ll most definitely do. Have a good night, everyone.
PAUL WITCOVER: All right. Good night, everybody.
