WEBVTT
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Raising kids can drive you insane.
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It's really kind of easy when you make it a game.
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Guys, welcome back to the Parenting Tools podcast.
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As always, my name is Ian.
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I am joined by the I like to call it the ninja of parenting, the one, the only, Nicole McKenzie.
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She who strives to make your kids easier to manage by teaching you, not them, 90% of the time, how to be better parents.
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I get that right.
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Yes, yes, definitely.
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Teach the parents, not the kids.
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Nice.
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So I got a story straight off the bat from Reddit.
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We love going to Reddit at our parents.
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The Mighty Cthulhu describes an exhausting experience with his four-year-old, who treats every interaction like an intense courtroom trial.
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Rather than standard tantrums, the child litigates simple instructions, arguing about marker preferences with dramatic flair.
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Um, when they're sitting down and coloring it, for example, he says, I like purple markers better.
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Or insisting his ketchup covered hands are actually red paint hands, and he doesn't have to wash them.
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So by the end of the day, the parents are outmaneuvered and mentally drained by the bizarre toddler's logic and unwavering confidence.
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Kids are confident, man.
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They're just like, nope, this is how things go.
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Like, where is this?
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Um, even I don't have that.
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Like, I'm not teaching you to be this confident, but this is going into the segment of what you wanted to talk about today.
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Yes, it's called naming the game.
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So basically, this guy, this kid is this guy.
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Yeah, this this kid guy, this kid guy, guy kid, because he is a he's arguing like a litigator.
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So this guy, yes.
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Yeah, so uh he is let's let's what what's his name?
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Does he have a name or they don't say his name?
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We can call him Ryan.
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Okay, so Ryan is arguing, right?
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And he loves to argue.
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Uh, so what I did with the kids, whenever I could, I actually would name what they are doing.
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So if they're whining, like uh, you know, my daughter, she used to whine, and when she did that, I called her, I said, Oh, there's whiny wonder.
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Her name is Lydia, so I gave it another name, you know.
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So uh whiny wonder can can we change?
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Can we have awesome Lydia back?
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And maybe she will come back.
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And but it it went to the point where Lydia at one point said, you know, I hate whiny wonder.
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It was that wasn't her, right?
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That was this Wanda girl who was whining, wasn't her.
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So she could make the distinction when she was in that character, and it was just a character, but it wasn't her.
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So you could do that with just about any of those like um attitudes, like whining or arguing, or you know, so with this kid, you know, he could become arguing Jack, and arguing Jack could uh obviously need uh needs a little bit help, so not everything is an argument, but most likely um the arguing is working and he gets some arguing back.
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I also think there's a way that you used to say that to the kids.
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So like I remember Lydia when she would do the whining, you would say it like almost like you're like kind of grossed out.
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You're like, ooh, there's whiny Wanda's back.
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And like it just made it really kind of like, oh, dude, we do not want to hang out with her.
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Like, she's just like I love Lydia, but this whiny Wanda goes, oof.
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Literally used to say that.
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Literally say, Oh, Lydia is so fun to hang out with, but this Wanda, poof, no.
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I hope Lydia's coming back soon, man.
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I've I've had this.
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It's like, or it's just is it whiny Wanda?
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And she would go, mm-hmm.
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Yeah.
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All right, as long as we know what we're doing.
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So, what does that do?
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What does that do for the kid?
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What does that do for the parents?
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First of all, you have to identify what they're doing.
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You know, they're there maybe they're just learned it somehow and it worked, so they keep on using it.
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So this kid is just arguing because arguing has been working for him.
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So what is it?
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But he doesn't really know he's arguing.
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So, what are we doing for the kids?
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What does this do?
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Well, we we name it.
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This is you're arguing, you know.
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And we could like him, he's four years old.
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So, what I would do in this case, I would sit down with him and say, Look, I mean, you're really an awesome kid.
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You can do so many things.
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And so his name is well, what did we say?
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Ryan.
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Ryan.
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So, Ryan, you're really, really an awesome kid, and you know, we love you very much, and you're doing so many things, right?
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What I really loved you did, so I always try to start positive in a in a session like that and say something that's really, really good.
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And then I come and say, But there is one thing which it's just you know, it just pushes my button, and you're very good at pushing the button.
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That's that's the arguing.
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You know what I mean by arguing?
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Let's let the police go by.
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It's an ambulance because we're next to the hospital.
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So you uh so you know what I mean by arguing, and he says that he says, Yeah, yeah, no.
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I said, okay, tell me what you think arguing means.
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Or he goes straight into an argument.
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It's like, well, actually, Madame.
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When I say red, you say no, it's not red, it's blue.
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It's blue because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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That's arguing.
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It's whatever I say, you have something else to say.
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So, although it's very smart, it's very brilliant, it's a game, and it doesn't really work.
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So, we have to find a consequence of what happens when you do that.
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First of all, whenever you get into that character, I think we should give it another name.
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Let's not call it Ryan, but let's have it have that kid being the arguing Jack.
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Or do you want to give it another name, maybe?
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You want to have it the arguing?
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Do I want to give it?
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I don't know.
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I mean, I would ask the kid.
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I would ask the kid because then he has a say in the whole thing.
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You know, you want to be arguing Jack, or do you have another name you would rather be when you're arguing?
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So he maybe say, Yeah, I want to be like he probably would say because he's arguing.
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Yeah, I want to be Jim.
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Okay, okay, great.
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We call it arguing Jim.
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So he already agreed to something.
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Yeah, you play into it.
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Yeah, like, yeah, you think you're smart, huh?
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Don't say that.
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And then he said, Okay, so what should be the consequence when arguing Jim is is coming out of you, you know.
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And um then he maybe say, Oh, he I don't want to.
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He probably wouldn't give you an he probably won't give you a consequence because he's arguing.
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I don't want to do that, blah blah blah.
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Okay, let's let's just try it and see how we do.
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Let's see.
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We could do whenever you start arguing, we could say, Oh, it's arguing um Jack, and arguing Jack has to go out to the tree and argue with the three.
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You can argue with the three as well, it's very difficult, but the tree is where we want to go.
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Yeah, also be careful with this tree argument because we used to have a cussing tree, and like we would go we had an arguing tree.
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That tree died, like it was of all the trees on our property, that one went died quickly.
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It was an apple tree, and like it wasn't an apple tree for long, so it was yeah, it was it's a little dangerous, but it really would.
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I mean, I had that in my house because all kids like to argue.
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So whenever they stepped into that character, the arguing Jack, you know, then they said, Oops, arguing Jack, well, go argue with the tree, and they would go out and get their frustration out on the tree, and the poor tree died.
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Yeah, so pick something a little bit more solid, like a post to be a little more an arguing um litter box or something.
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Don't pick your car, they'll mess up your car, like a post, a post, I think, is good.
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A tree, like let's let's let's try to or a wall.
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A wall's good, yeah.
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But it's it's a good thing because now the kid knows first of all what he's doing, he's arguing, right?
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And you actually name the game so he he can become conscious of what he's doing, and then it's not really him doing it, but it's this chack guy who's arguing.
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And this Jack guy is like, oh, there's Jack again.
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Yeah, we don't like Jack.
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And I mean it gets to the point where, like Lydia, you know, oh, I hate I hate whiny wonder.
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So the goal is to make them actually have disdain or not, they don't want to you don't want them to like this character that you've made up for them, and like again with all these things, you don't want to like solo make it up with you wanna make it up with them, right?
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You want to you want to have them be aware in a in a time when you're not engaged, when you're not um fighting with them.
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Yeah, yeah, when when there's no fight, you're in a good space, you're both in a good space, you can appreciate them, and you always start with depreciation, and then you go what you want to correct, you name it so they can get clear of what they're actually doing because they're not clear, they're not clear they're arguing, you know, they're not clear they're whining.
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But once you point it out and you start pointing it out, they actually can start correcting too.
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So it's it's small steps, you know, and then you then you start to implement it.
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And the next time he starts arguing, he says, Ah, there he's arguing Jack again.
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Very cool.
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Well, oh, so go argue with the tree.
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And you would do this with a bunch of different like so you had whiny Wanda, you had Arguing Jack, you had any other examples of where this works, like well, um Powdy Patricia, uh doesn't have to rhyme, but it's just style points in the year, you know.
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Um negotiating is almost like arguing, you know.
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But uh I just whatever, whatever I needed to correct, I was checking what kind of game it is behind, and then name that game, sitting down, identify what they're doing, give them some feedback, find a consequence on what to do when they do it, and and give that different character actually a different name so the kid doesn't identify.
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And it also, like you you said this earlier, but it helps the kid understand what's going on.
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Yeah, because they're just you know, they're growing up, they're learning everything.
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So they're learning like with arguing, I can get my way, you know.
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I can just go to bed with my uh ketchup hands because uh it's not ketchup, it's paint, you know.
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And my parents don't know what to do with me if I do that.
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It's kind of fun, but also But they don't know they're arguing, they're just doing what they're always doing, and right.
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So this is like instead of saying, like, oh my god, my kid is like stressing me out and like being annoying, it's like, well, how is your kid being annoying?
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You know, how is that?
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How is that stressing you out?
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It's like, oh, the arguing that he does, da-da-da, and like being able to tell them directly, like, you're arguing as Jack, and I don't like that.
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It doesn't tell them, like, oh, that's stressing me out when you have red paint hands, it's telling them exactly that arguing, I don't like that is stressing me out.
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Yeah, and once he doesn't argue, he's just gonna go wash his hands because it's like you know, it's it's it's it's once he has disdain for Jack, if he ends up liking, he's like, Yes, arguing Jack is back.
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Like, all right, I mean, then you have a monster.
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Like, yeah, what do you do then if they like Jack?
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Like, what if he's like, Yes, listen, now I'm arguing Jack, and then leans into it.
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Okay, no, well, arguing Jack has a consequence because we don't like him, you know?
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Yeah, yeah.
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I mean, you stop it, it's yeah, it's not like oh now we we have to deal with not just with with Ryan, but also with arguing Jack.
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No, arguing Jack always gets a consequence, you know.
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He's just like that.
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No, we don't, we we we cut that out right away.
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Yeah, because arguing Jack is just arguing Jack.
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Yeah, who likes him?
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You know, nobody that guy's a but I feel like this also gives parents a solid like understanding as well, because if you give it a personality, you give it a persona, it makes it easier to almost separate that from your kid in a way.
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Absolutely.
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It's like because now it's not it's not your kid is doing it, it's Ryan guy, right?
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I I mean sorry, it's that Shaq guy.
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Jack, yeah.
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Jack is not Ryan anymore.
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Ryan is the the the one we want.
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Yeah, Ryan is the awesome kid that can do all these things.
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It's four years old and it's just awesome.
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And then there's this Shaq sometimes visiting, and he's just like well shit.
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We don't want to deal with Jack.
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We don't deal anymore, you know.
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We used to deal with Shaq too, but now we don't deal with Jack because Shaq is arguing and arguing doesn't work.
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And that's the thing with like all the parents who are listening now, is like I feel like most people are gonna be in it and be like, Well, I already have this.
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Like the real Cthulhu who wrote that post is probably like listening to this, like, well, I'm already in it, he already does it.
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And so if you were to implement arguing Jack, how do you do it?
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Well, exactly how he said you get in a good moment, you sit down with him and you explain.
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And you you actually you you you you start with positive, with what something that really works that you really like, how much you like Ryan, how awesome he is, and then you say there's one thing sometimes what do you do?
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You know, okay, so we've arguing, and you start to explain him, and then you even do like a kind of a role play.
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If he because he probably said, Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean, but he probably doesn't.
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So you actually we've explained this.
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You you actually explain, yeah.
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Yeah, so now let's say we're in it.
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Yeah, first time in it goes back to arguing.
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Yeah.
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Now what do you do?
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Well, if you write in it, most likely you're not in a good position to do that, what I just said, because you're not I'm saying like like Ryan, who's he's good, Ryan, and then like you know, he gets ketchup on his hands, he's like, go wash your hands, like up, this is red paint hand, so I don't have to.
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And then what do you do from there?
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It's like the first instance, like this is a fresh.
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I've have you already established everything.
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You've already established everything.
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Oh, there he's arguing Jack.
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How interesting.
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Do you remember what we did about what we said about what consequence will be if uh if this Jack is showing up again?
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Now there he is, he's arguing.
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Very cool.
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So what did we say we do?
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And he's like, I mean, already that you know, you're not going into the game, you actually acknowledge it again.
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What and you're not making it wrong, it's just oh, there it is again.
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Now that is, now that gets the consequence, and you apply the consequence to you agreed on.
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So you go arguing to you, you need to go to the arguing tree, or you can just go wash your hands.
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So that's also like you have to ease them into it as well.
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Like you can't just go sometimes.
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I mean, some kids are gonna get it.
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You can set up the consequence and say, okay, this is what's gonna happen afterwards.
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But of course, no kid in the history have ever has gone through, correct me if I'm wrong, where you go through and you set up a consequence and then they don't go and test it out.
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Most kids will test it out.
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Yeah, that's true.
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So test it out and see.
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And if if it if it doesn't hold, that's fine.
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One time.
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If it doesn't hold a second time, then you have to go over the consequence.
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Most likely, then the consequence isn't strong enough to work as a break.
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Yeah, too weak.
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So like expecting expect testing.
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Yeah.
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If it's too much testing, the consequence is not strong enough.
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It doesn't hold.
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It's like a break, you know, it's it's weak.
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You need to tweak it a little bit.
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Yeah, yeah, tweak the breaks if they well, I mean, that you're gonna see pretty quickly, no?
00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:10.720
If you have the consequence set up and they go through and they do the consequence and they don't really uh care.
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:19.120
Yeah, it's the the thing is what's the beauty with that game is like it's immediate, they're not wrong because now they know what they're doing.
00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:21.120
They know it's the arguing game.
00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:26.879
So it's they're not because they're caught in the game right there and then, but they're not wrong for it.
00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:34.240
It's like, oh, it's almost like, oh yeah, I know what I'm doing, and it's not that much fun to continue and continue and continue.
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:44.879
Once you have set it up that that that this is a different person doing it, it's almost like they also kind of not identify it with themselves anymore.
00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:46.639
It's it's really it's it's a good little thing.
00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:47.360
It's a good little trick.
00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:48.399
It's a good little trick.
00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:58.000
Because then you can say, like, this is not who you are, this is who this personality is like, and we don't like that personality, and so we're gonna try to get rid of that.
00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:06.159
But then again, like it this I feel like this is super strong because for parents who also have trouble, like at the beginning, you say go for go for small wins, yeah.
00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:06.320
Right.
00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:12.559
And so, like, I mean, set up, set up your your you have to set up the the playing field so you can win.
00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:12.799
Right.
00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:15.519
So do it in very small inclements, you know.
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.159
I mean, it's very uh so this is an easy way to do it.
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:32.799
Give the things that you don't like, give those name, give those uh behaviors a personality, give it a name, make sure that the toddler or whoever it understands that name that you don't like hanging out with that person.
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:36.720
Like we don't like hanging out with Winy Wanda, we don't like hanging out with our own.
00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:42.320
You want him to just uh yeah, you want him to agree that this is kind of like, oh, you know, whiny wander.
00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:46.399
And they will, I mean, usually they get to it and it's like okay, but they're still gonna whine.
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:49.440
So it's like, oh gosh, whiny wanda back, really?
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:57.679
It's almost like this, you know, this kid visiting who doesn't even belong, you know.
00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:19.599
Okay, so let's let's let's put a bow on this nicely and say the real Cthulhu, the guy who has this four-year-old, is sitting here at the table, all right, and you just have to explain to him the step-by-step game plan for what exactly he should do in a nice little package so he can go through and set up arguing jack.
00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:21.680
Pretty much what I said.
00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:22.880
I mean, I have to repeat myself.
00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:44.720
Yeah, yeah, just if we can do like in a concise like okay, step one meet with him, show him how awesome he is, but then go into the arguing, make sure he is understands exactly what arguing is, maybe do a little role play or whatever in there, and then um define a consequence for and and name it, give it a different name.
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:49.359
So instead of Ryan, you you develop arguing Jack, right?
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:56.880
And then arguing Jack has a consequence, and then the next time he's arguing, he says, Oh, well, here it is.
00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:58.240
Arguing Jack is here.
00:17:58.400 --> 00:17:59.119
What are we gonna do?
00:17:59.200 --> 00:17:59.759
Oh, yeah.
00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:02.160
Remember, we got a consequence for arguing Jack.
00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:03.920
Now then apply the consequence.
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:05.279
Okay, and start small.
00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:06.319
Yeah, start small.
00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:09.759
Start small and make it kind of fun too.
00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:10.799
It's kind of fun, you know.
00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:17.279
Kids like when it's fun, it's like parenting is not constantly being like on the war pad.
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.079
Less sad, man.
00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:25.200
It's like see if you can they're they're living in the moment.
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:40.240
So if you can turn it in the moment into something that that doesn't pull them down one road, you know, that into a character, into a whiny character, a pouty character, an arguing character, it's much more fun for them too.
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:48.000
So if you can switch it a little bit where it becomes easier and and more fun for both sides, I think that's a good thing to do.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:49.920
I think that's a solid send-off.
00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:51.680
I was really like uh really concise.
00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:54.880
So uh the real Cthulhu, if you're listening to this, you know what to do.
00:18:55.039 --> 00:19:00.400
If you guys have kids who have different issues, this is a really easy trick to do.
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:05.119
Uh, if you like this kind of stuff, make sure you like, subscribe, and we'll see you on the next podcast.
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:05.759
See ya.
00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:09.519
One thing's for certain it's rule number one.
00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:03.600
Raising kids can drive you insane.
00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:07.599
It's really kind of easy when you make it a game.
00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:11.519
Guys, welcome back to the Parenting Tools podcast.
00:00:11.679 --> 00:00:13.119
As always, my name is Ian.
00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:18.879
I am joined by the I like to call it the ninja of parenting, the one, the only, Nicole McKenzie.
00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:29.679
She who strives to make your kids easier to manage by teaching you, not them, 90% of the time, how to be better parents.
00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:30.559
I get that right.
00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:31.920
Yes, yes, definitely.
00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:33.439
Teach the parents, not the kids.
00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:33.920
Nice.
00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:36.560
So I got a story straight off the bat from Reddit.
00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:38.719
We love going to Reddit at our parents.
00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:47.759
The Mighty Cthulhu describes an exhausting experience with his four-year-old, who treats every interaction like an intense courtroom trial.
00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:54.640
Rather than standard tantrums, the child litigates simple instructions, arguing about marker preferences with dramatic flair.
00:00:54.880 --> 00:01:00.079
Um, when they're sitting down and coloring it, for example, he says, I like purple markers better.
00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:06.640
Or insisting his ketchup covered hands are actually red paint hands, and he doesn't have to wash them.
00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:17.040
So by the end of the day, the parents are outmaneuvered and mentally drained by the bizarre toddler's logic and unwavering confidence.
00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:19.760
Kids are confident, man.
00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:21.280
They're just like, nope, this is how things go.
00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:22.079
Like, where is this?
00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:23.359
Um, even I don't have that.
00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:30.640
Like, I'm not teaching you to be this confident, but this is going into the segment of what you wanted to talk about today.
00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:34.560
Yes, it's called naming the game.
00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:39.120
So basically, this guy, this kid is this guy.
00:01:39.439 --> 00:01:44.319
Yeah, this this kid guy, this kid guy, guy kid, because he is a he's arguing like a litigator.
00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:45.519
So this guy, yes.
00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:49.120
Yeah, so uh he is let's let's what what's his name?
00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:50.879
Does he have a name or they don't say his name?
00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:52.480
We can call him Ryan.
00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:54.879
Okay, so Ryan is arguing, right?
00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:56.400
And he loves to argue.
00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:03.599
Uh, so what I did with the kids, whenever I could, I actually would name what they are doing.
00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:12.479
So if they're whining, like uh, you know, my daughter, she used to whine, and when she did that, I called her, I said, Oh, there's whiny wonder.
00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.599
Her name is Lydia, so I gave it another name, you know.
00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:18.400
So uh whiny wonder can can we change?
00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:20.319
Can we have awesome Lydia back?
00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:22.240
And maybe she will come back.
00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:28.960
And but it it went to the point where Lydia at one point said, you know, I hate whiny wonder.
00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:31.840
It was that wasn't her, right?
00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:34.240
That was this Wanda girl who was whining, wasn't her.
00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:40.000
So she could make the distinction when she was in that character, and it was just a character, but it wasn't her.
00:02:40.319 --> 00:03:06.639
So you could do that with just about any of those like um attitudes, like whining or arguing, or you know, so with this kid, you know, he could become arguing Jack, and arguing Jack could uh obviously need uh needs a little bit help, so not everything is an argument, but most likely um the arguing is working and he gets some arguing back.
00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:12.719
I also think there's a way that you used to say that to the kids.
00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:19.360
So like I remember Lydia when she would do the whining, you would say it like almost like you're like kind of grossed out.
00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:22.319
You're like, ooh, there's whiny Wanda's back.
00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:27.599
And like it just made it really kind of like, oh, dude, we do not want to hang out with her.
00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:31.520
Like, she's just like I love Lydia, but this whiny Wanda goes, oof.
00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:32.879
Literally used to say that.
00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:37.680
Literally say, Oh, Lydia is so fun to hang out with, but this Wanda, poof, no.
00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:40.560
I hope Lydia's coming back soon, man.
00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:42.080
I've I've had this.
00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:44.879
It's like, or it's just is it whiny Wanda?
00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:46.159
And she would go, mm-hmm.
00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:47.039
Yeah.
00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:49.520
All right, as long as we know what we're doing.
00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:50.400
So, what does that do?
00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:51.280
What does that do for the kid?
00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:52.240
What does that do for the parents?
00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:55.280
First of all, you have to identify what they're doing.
00:03:55.360 --> 00:04:00.080
You know, they're there maybe they're just learned it somehow and it worked, so they keep on using it.
00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:03.360
So this kid is just arguing because arguing has been working for him.
00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:04.080
So what is it?
00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:06.159
But he doesn't really know he's arguing.
00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:07.680
So, what are we doing for the kids?
00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:09.680
What does this do?
00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:11.680
Well, we we name it.
00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:14.000
This is you're arguing, you know.
00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:16.800
And we could like him, he's four years old.
00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:23.439
So, what I would do in this case, I would sit down with him and say, Look, I mean, you're really an awesome kid.
00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:24.720
You can do so many things.
00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:26.480
And so his name is well, what did we say?
00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:26.959
Ryan.
00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:27.519
Ryan.
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So, Ryan, you're really, really an awesome kid, and you know, we love you very much, and you're doing so many things, right?
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What I really loved you did, so I always try to start positive in a in a session like that and say something that's really, really good.
00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:48.000
And then I come and say, But there is one thing which it's just you know, it just pushes my button, and you're very good at pushing the button.
00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:49.279
That's that's the arguing.
00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:51.439
You know what I mean by arguing?
00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:53.360
Let's let the police go by.
00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:56.800
It's an ambulance because we're next to the hospital.
00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:04.560
So you uh so you know what I mean by arguing, and he says that he says, Yeah, yeah, no.
00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:07.439
I said, okay, tell me what you think arguing means.
00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:08.879
Or he goes straight into an argument.
00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:11.199
It's like, well, actually, Madame.
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When I say red, you say no, it's not red, it's blue.
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It's blue because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:17.600
That's arguing.
00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:20.800
It's whatever I say, you have something else to say.
00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:26.800
So, although it's very smart, it's very brilliant, it's a game, and it doesn't really work.
00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:30.319
So, we have to find a consequence of what happens when you do that.
00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:35.040
First of all, whenever you get into that character, I think we should give it another name.
00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:40.800
Let's not call it Ryan, but let's have it have that kid being the arguing Jack.
00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:42.639
Or do you want to give it another name, maybe?
00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:44.319
You want to have it the arguing?
00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:45.600
Do I want to give it?
00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:46.000
I don't know.
00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:47.839
I mean, I would ask the kid.
00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:51.040
I would ask the kid because then he has a say in the whole thing.
00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:55.680
You know, you want to be arguing Jack, or do you have another name you would rather be when you're arguing?
00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:59.600
So he maybe say, Yeah, I want to be like he probably would say because he's arguing.
00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:01.439
Yeah, I want to be Jim.
00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:02.800
Okay, okay, great.
00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:04.240
We call it arguing Jim.
00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:05.759
So he already agreed to something.
00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:06.959
Yeah, you play into it.
00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:08.720
Yeah, like, yeah, you think you're smart, huh?
00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:10.879
Don't say that.
00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:19.680
And then he said, Okay, so what should be the consequence when arguing Jim is is coming out of you, you know.
00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:24.560
And um then he maybe say, Oh, he I don't want to.
00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:30.560
He probably wouldn't give you an he probably won't give you a consequence because he's arguing.
00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:32.079
I don't want to do that, blah blah blah.
00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:34.639
Okay, let's let's just try it and see how we do.
00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:35.360
Let's see.
00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:47.680
We could do whenever you start arguing, we could say, Oh, it's arguing um Jack, and arguing Jack has to go out to the tree and argue with the three.
00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:53.839
You can argue with the three as well, it's very difficult, but the tree is where we want to go.
00:06:54.160 --> 00:07:01.839
Yeah, also be careful with this tree argument because we used to have a cussing tree, and like we would go we had an arguing tree.
00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:06.720
That tree died, like it was of all the trees on our property, that one went died quickly.
00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:13.040
It was an apple tree, and like it wasn't an apple tree for long, so it was yeah, it was it's a little dangerous, but it really would.
00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:16.079
I mean, I had that in my house because all kids like to argue.
00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:30.160
So whenever they stepped into that character, the arguing Jack, you know, then they said, Oops, arguing Jack, well, go argue with the tree, and they would go out and get their frustration out on the tree, and the poor tree died.
00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:37.600
Yeah, so pick something a little bit more solid, like a post to be a little more an arguing um litter box or something.
00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:44.399
Don't pick your car, they'll mess up your car, like a post, a post, I think, is good.
00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:46.959
A tree, like let's let's let's try to or a wall.
00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:48.160
A wall's good, yeah.
00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:54.480
But it's it's a good thing because now the kid knows first of all what he's doing, he's arguing, right?
00:07:54.560 --> 00:08:03.040
And you actually name the game so he he can become conscious of what he's doing, and then it's not really him doing it, but it's this chack guy who's arguing.
00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:06.079
And this Jack guy is like, oh, there's Jack again.
00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:07.199
Yeah, we don't like Jack.
00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:12.399
And I mean it gets to the point where, like Lydia, you know, oh, I hate I hate whiny wonder.
00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:27.279
So the goal is to make them actually have disdain or not, they don't want to you don't want them to like this character that you've made up for them, and like again with all these things, you don't want to like solo make it up with you wanna make it up with them, right?
00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:35.200
You want to you want to have them be aware in a in a time when you're not engaged, when you're not um fighting with them.
00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:53.120
Yeah, yeah, when when there's no fight, you're in a good space, you're both in a good space, you can appreciate them, and you always start with depreciation, and then you go what you want to correct, you name it so they can get clear of what they're actually doing because they're not clear, they're not clear they're arguing, you know, they're not clear they're whining.
00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:57.600
But once you point it out and you start pointing it out, they actually can start correcting too.
00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:02.639
So it's it's small steps, you know, and then you then you start to implement it.
00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:06.799
And the next time he starts arguing, he says, Ah, there he's arguing Jack again.
00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:07.600
Very cool.
00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:09.519
Well, oh, so go argue with the tree.
00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:25.440
And you would do this with a bunch of different like so you had whiny Wanda, you had Arguing Jack, you had any other examples of where this works, like well, um Powdy Patricia, uh doesn't have to rhyme, but it's just style points in the year, you know.
00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:30.799
Um negotiating is almost like arguing, you know.
00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:52.639
But uh I just whatever, whatever I needed to correct, I was checking what kind of game it is behind, and then name that game, sitting down, identify what they're doing, give them some feedback, find a consequence on what to do when they do it, and and give that different character actually a different name so the kid doesn't identify.
00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:57.919
And it also, like you you said this earlier, but it helps the kid understand what's going on.
00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:02.320
Yeah, because they're just you know, they're growing up, they're learning everything.
00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:06.240
So they're learning like with arguing, I can get my way, you know.
00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:12.799
I can just go to bed with my uh ketchup hands because uh it's not ketchup, it's paint, you know.
00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:15.519
And my parents don't know what to do with me if I do that.
00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:20.639
It's kind of fun, but also But they don't know they're arguing, they're just doing what they're always doing, and right.
00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:28.000
So this is like instead of saying, like, oh my god, my kid is like stressing me out and like being annoying, it's like, well, how is your kid being annoying?
00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:28.799
You know, how is that?
00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:29.759
How is that stressing you out?
00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:39.519
It's like, oh, the arguing that he does, da-da-da, and like being able to tell them directly, like, you're arguing as Jack, and I don't like that.
00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:46.799
It doesn't tell them, like, oh, that's stressing me out when you have red paint hands, it's telling them exactly that arguing, I don't like that is stressing me out.
00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:58.159
Yeah, and once he doesn't argue, he's just gonna go wash his hands because it's like you know, it's it's it's it's once he has disdain for Jack, if he ends up liking, he's like, Yes, arguing Jack is back.
00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:00.639
Like, all right, I mean, then you have a monster.
00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:04.000
Like, yeah, what do you do then if they like Jack?
00:11:04.159 --> 00:11:07.919
Like, what if he's like, Yes, listen, now I'm arguing Jack, and then leans into it.
00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:12.480
Okay, no, well, arguing Jack has a consequence because we don't like him, you know?
00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:13.200
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:20.559
I mean, you stop it, it's yeah, it's not like oh now we we have to deal with not just with with Ryan, but also with arguing Jack.
00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:22.879
No, arguing Jack always gets a consequence, you know.
00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:23.759
He's just like that.
00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.159
No, we don't, we we we cut that out right away.
00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:28.960
Yeah, because arguing Jack is just arguing Jack.
00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:29.840
Yeah, who likes him?
00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:49.440
You know, nobody that guy's a but I feel like this also gives parents a solid like understanding as well, because if you give it a personality, you give it a persona, it makes it easier to almost separate that from your kid in a way.
00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:50.320
Absolutely.
00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:55.440
It's like because now it's not it's not your kid is doing it, it's Ryan guy, right?
00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:57.200
I I mean sorry, it's that Shaq guy.
00:11:57.360 --> 00:11:57.679
Jack, yeah.
00:11:57.840 --> 00:11:58.879
Jack is not Ryan anymore.
00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:01.039
Ryan is the the the one we want.
00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:04.159
Yeah, Ryan is the awesome kid that can do all these things.
00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:05.919
It's four years old and it's just awesome.
00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:09.600
And then there's this Shaq sometimes visiting, and he's just like well shit.
00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:12.480
We don't want to deal with Jack.
00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:14.559
We don't deal anymore, you know.
00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:20.240
We used to deal with Shaq too, but now we don't deal with Jack because Shaq is arguing and arguing doesn't work.
00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:26.639
And that's the thing with like all the parents who are listening now, is like I feel like most people are gonna be in it and be like, Well, I already have this.
00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:33.039
Like the real Cthulhu who wrote that post is probably like listening to this, like, well, I'm already in it, he already does it.
00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:38.480
And so if you were to implement arguing Jack, how do you do it?
00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:43.519
Well, exactly how he said you get in a good moment, you sit down with him and you explain.
00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:54.480
And you you actually you you you you start with positive, with what something that really works that you really like, how much you like Ryan, how awesome he is, and then you say there's one thing sometimes what do you do?
00:12:54.559 --> 00:13:00.080
You know, okay, so we've arguing, and you start to explain him, and then you even do like a kind of a role play.
00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:03.039
If he because he probably said, Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean, but he probably doesn't.
00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:04.960
So you actually we've explained this.
00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:06.480
You you actually explain, yeah.
00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:08.639
Yeah, so now let's say we're in it.
00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:11.679
Yeah, first time in it goes back to arguing.
00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:12.159
Yeah.
00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:13.360
Now what do you do?
00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:30.559
Well, if you write in it, most likely you're not in a good position to do that, what I just said, because you're not I'm saying like like Ryan, who's he's good, Ryan, and then like you know, he gets ketchup on his hands, he's like, go wash your hands, like up, this is red paint hand, so I don't have to.
00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:33.279
And then what do you do from there?
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.240
It's like the first instance, like this is a fresh.
00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:38.320
I've have you already established everything.
00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:39.600
You've already established everything.
00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:42.399
Oh, there he's arguing Jack.
00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:43.600
How interesting.
00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:50.399
Do you remember what we did about what we said about what consequence will be if uh if this Jack is showing up again?
00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:52.480
Now there he is, he's arguing.
00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:53.679
Very cool.
00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:55.519
So what did we say we do?
00:13:55.759 --> 00:14:02.799
And he's like, I mean, already that you know, you're not going into the game, you actually acknowledge it again.
00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:05.919
What and you're not making it wrong, it's just oh, there it is again.
00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:10.879
Now that is, now that gets the consequence, and you apply the consequence to you agreed on.
00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:15.360
So you go arguing to you, you need to go to the arguing tree, or you can just go wash your hands.
00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:18.720
So that's also like you have to ease them into it as well.
00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:20.399
Like you can't just go sometimes.
00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:21.759
I mean, some kids are gonna get it.
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:25.039
You can set up the consequence and say, okay, this is what's gonna happen afterwards.
00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:33.840
But of course, no kid in the history have ever has gone through, correct me if I'm wrong, where you go through and you set up a consequence and then they don't go and test it out.
00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:35.200
Most kids will test it out.
00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:35.840
Yeah, that's true.
00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:37.120
So test it out and see.
00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:39.279
And if if it if it doesn't hold, that's fine.
00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:40.159
One time.
00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:43.200
If it doesn't hold a second time, then you have to go over the consequence.
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:47.519
Most likely, then the consequence isn't strong enough to work as a break.
00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:48.480
Yeah, too weak.
00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:53.039
So like expecting expect testing.
00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:53.519
Yeah.
00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:57.039
If it's too much testing, the consequence is not strong enough.
00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:57.759
It doesn't hold.
00:14:57.840 --> 00:14:59.759
It's like a break, you know, it's it's weak.
00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:00.879
You need to tweak it a little bit.
00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:04.960
Yeah, yeah, tweak the breaks if they well, I mean, that you're gonna see pretty quickly, no?
00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:10.720
If you have the consequence set up and they go through and they do the consequence and they don't really uh care.
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:19.120
Yeah, it's the the thing is what's the beauty with that game is like it's immediate, they're not wrong because now they know what they're doing.
00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:21.120
They know it's the arguing game.
00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:26.879
So it's they're not because they're caught in the game right there and then, but they're not wrong for it.
00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:34.240
It's like, oh, it's almost like, oh yeah, I know what I'm doing, and it's not that much fun to continue and continue and continue.
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:44.879
Once you have set it up that that that this is a different person doing it, it's almost like they also kind of not identify it with themselves anymore.
00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:46.639
It's it's really it's it's a good little thing.
00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:47.360
It's a good little trick.
00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:48.399
It's a good little trick.
00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:58.000
Because then you can say, like, this is not who you are, this is who this personality is like, and we don't like that personality, and so we're gonna try to get rid of that.
00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:06.159
But then again, like it this I feel like this is super strong because for parents who also have trouble, like at the beginning, you say go for go for small wins, yeah.
00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:06.320
Right.
00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:12.559
And so, like, I mean, set up, set up your your you have to set up the the playing field so you can win.
00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:12.799
Right.
00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:15.519
So do it in very small inclements, you know.
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.159
I mean, it's very uh so this is an easy way to do it.
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:32.799
Give the things that you don't like, give those name, give those uh behaviors a personality, give it a name, make sure that the toddler or whoever it understands that name that you don't like hanging out with that person.
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:36.720
Like we don't like hanging out with Winy Wanda, we don't like hanging out with our own.
00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:42.320
You want him to just uh yeah, you want him to agree that this is kind of like, oh, you know, whiny wander.
00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:46.399
And they will, I mean, usually they get to it and it's like okay, but they're still gonna whine.
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:49.440
So it's like, oh gosh, whiny wanda back, really?
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:57.679
It's almost like this, you know, this kid visiting who doesn't even belong, you know.
00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:19.599
Okay, so let's let's let's put a bow on this nicely and say the real Cthulhu, the guy who has this four-year-old, is sitting here at the table, all right, and you just have to explain to him the step-by-step game plan for what exactly he should do in a nice little package so he can go through and set up arguing jack.
00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:21.680
Pretty much what I said.
00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:22.880
I mean, I have to repeat myself.
00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:44.720
Yeah, yeah, just if we can do like in a concise like okay, step one meet with him, show him how awesome he is, but then go into the arguing, make sure he is understands exactly what arguing is, maybe do a little role play or whatever in there, and then um define a consequence for and and name it, give it a different name.
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:49.359
So instead of Ryan, you you develop arguing Jack, right?
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:56.880
And then arguing Jack has a consequence, and then the next time he's arguing, he says, Oh, well, here it is.
00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:58.240
Arguing Jack is here.
00:17:58.400 --> 00:17:59.119
What are we gonna do?
00:17:59.200 --> 00:17:59.759
Oh, yeah.
00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:02.160
Remember, we got a consequence for arguing Jack.
00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:03.920
Now then apply the consequence.
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:05.279
Okay, and start small.
00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:06.319
Yeah, start small.
00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:09.759
Start small and make it kind of fun too.
00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:10.799
It's kind of fun, you know.
00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:17.279
Kids like when it's fun, it's like parenting is not constantly being like on the war pad.
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.079
Less sad, man.
00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:25.200
It's like see if you can they're they're living in the moment.
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:40.240
So if you can turn it in the moment into something that that doesn't pull them down one road, you know, that into a character, into a whiny character, a pouty character, an arguing character, it's much more fun for them too.
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:48.000
So if you can switch it a little bit where it becomes easier and and more fun for both sides, I think that's a good thing to do.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:49.920
I think that's a solid send-off.
00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:51.680
I was really like uh really concise.
00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:54.880
So uh the real Cthulhu, if you're listening to this, you know what to do.
00:18:55.039 --> 00:19:00.400
If you guys have kids who have different issues, this is a really easy trick to do.
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:05.119
Uh, if you like this kind of stuff, make sure you like, subscribe, and we'll see you on the next podcast.
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:05.759
See ya.
00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:09.519
One thing's for certain it's rule number one.
