S05 EP22: Denise Welch

WEBVTT
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Hello, I'm Rob Beckett.
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And I'm Josh Willicombe.
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Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and
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I discuss what it's really like to be a parent,
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which I would say can be a little tricky.
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So, to make ourselves, and hopefully you, feel better about
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the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting, each week
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we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping.
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Or hopefully how they're not coping.
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And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with
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your tips, advice and, of course, tales of parenting woe.
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Because let's be honest, there are plenty of times when
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none of us know what we're doing.
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Hello, you're listening to Parenting Hill with.
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Can you say Rob Beckett? Rob Beckett. Rob Beckett. Rob Beckett. OK.
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And Josh Whittakin.
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Josh Whittaker me boobies.
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Unfortunately, though, Josh Whittaker me boobies is not here. I
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am riding solo. So, Michael, please can you tell me
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who that was? Have you got your mic there to
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let me know?
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I have, yes. Yeah, thanks, Mike.
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Hello, this is Teddy, who has just turned three, attempting
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to say your names. Though his favourite word at the
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minute is boobies, and no matter what, we can't get
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him to stop saying it.
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It never changes.
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His dad finds it hysterical and cannot stop laughing when
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he says it, which has now led to him telling
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his nursery teachers that daddy loves boobies.
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Oh, lovely stuff.
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Thanks, Michael.
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Are they from the Wirral? They are from Liverpool, and
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that was Katie.
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That was close, wasn't it?
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That was close. Should have just gone Liverpool.
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Thanks, Michael. You can stand down now and I'll explain
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to the listeners why Josh has gone.
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Thanks.
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So, yeah, I fired him. It's over.
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No, I'm joking. Basically, Josh has had an absolute nightmare.
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We are recording this the day before the Denise Walsh
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episode goes out. We normally do a little 10-minute intro,
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little chat, see how we're getting on, do some correspondence. However,
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Josh has had a bit of a nightmare. I don't
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think Rose is very well and he was at the
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hospital with the kids in the middle of the night.
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Everyone's okay, but he's absolutely knackered and he's looking after
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two children while Rose is in bed. But he has
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sent a couple of voice notes to let us know
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what's going on so we can listen to these together.
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I've not heard any of these. One of them's 3
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minutes 19 and one of them's 1 minute 55 and
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one of them's 1 second, which must be an error.
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But I'll play the 3-minute.
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Let's go. Hello, guys. Long-time listener, first-time caller.
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So.
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Good stuff.
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What a f * * * ing night. So tired.
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I'll quickly take you through it as to why I
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can't be with you.
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Before we carry on, he sounds broken, doesn't he? Hopefully
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it's nothing too bleak. Oh, no, the gardener's here making noise. Oh,
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for fuck's sake. Michael might be able to play this
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in without gardener noise, if we're lucky.
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Some porridge. Not for myself.
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So, Rose is ill. Because my daughter's been yelling off
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school on Tuesday. Rose has caught it.
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Oh, no. So Rose goes to bed at 9 p.m.
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Not at all well.
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And then I go to bed at half 11. Can't
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get to sleep. Like, totally wired. Terrible sleep at the moment.
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Just like this is a nightmare. This is a living nightmare.
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I'm going to be lying in bed all night. Full
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panic mode. Exactly what you don't need to get to sleep.
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1 a.m. some wakes up and crying.
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And go in we go in because he won't settle
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and give him I go in because Rose is obviously
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stuck in bed because she's just so unwell go in
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and give him ibuprofen.
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Come out he's far worse why am I laughing?
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Us going in has really woken him up why else
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I mean me Um, he's absolutely going mental.
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And he won't go to sleep at all.
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Uh, proper, uh, I'm so tired I can't remember what
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that thing's called where children don't want to be without
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you all of a sudden at night time.
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That thing. Um, anyway, go in after a bit. Check
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his temperature. It's 34, which is....
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I didn't know it went low.
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Sorry to interrupt listeners, but I didn't know it went
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that low.
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Hopefully he's all right.
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I mean, I've not listened to these. This could be awful.
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I've laughed so far, but I don't know why I'm laughing.
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I feel mean. But it is funny, isn't it, when he's.
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Like this? Sorry, Josh.
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Which is bad news. Google it. Bad news. Very bad news.
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Your child should not have a low temperature.
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This could be hypothermia or sepsis or sepsis or whatever
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it's called.
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Which I see as a negative. Full panic mode sets in. Well, no.
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In fact, what you've got to do, I suppose, in
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that situation, think we're going to take him to hospital,
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obviously before that. Presume the temperature thing's not working, do
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it on us. It's totally fine. Change the batteries, do
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it on him again. He's still down to 34.2. So
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I have to drive him to the hospital. I order
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a cab because you can't park at the hospital for
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more than an hour and it takes forever at the hospital.
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Oh, my God, I've done two and a half minutes.
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You're not going to have to do anything this morning, Rob.
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And then.
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Cab managed to get one four minutes away. Then it
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abandons us. I just think I'm just going to have
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to drive. Rose is out of bed by this point
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because even though she's very ill, the panic's taken over.
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I take him out, drive him to the hospital, park up.
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He had an hour's parking. I'm like, I'm just going
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to have to get a ticket here. Go in, A
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& E, et cetera, et cetera. Get through to the
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doctor after about 10, 15 minutes.
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They talk to someone. She tells his temperature. Obviously, he's fine. 36.5. Oh, wait,
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here comes my daughter.
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I'll send another one in a bit.
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36.5.
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Long story short, Josh's kid had a temperature of 34.
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He rushed and went to hospital in a panic, and
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it was 36 and absolutely fine, which definitely sounds like
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something Josh would do.
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Here's the next voice note.
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I can't even remember where I got to. Oh, I think.
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So they check him. Straight away, his temperature's fine. His
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oxygen levels are fine. His heart rate's fine.
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I don't know what's happened. Obviously, we have got a
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faulty thing. Or he's just improved. Or whatever. Anyway, good news.
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I leave well within my hour's parking. Straight out of there.
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15 minutes in the hospital. Drive back. By this point,
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it's about....
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Two, 2.30 maybe, somehow. And so then he won't go
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back to sleep. Then, little aside.
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Of course he won't go back to sleep. You've just
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taken him to the fucking hospital for no reason. Well,
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a reason, but it turned out not a reason. I'm
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not being mean, Josh.
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The person who organised my daughter's party over in Texas
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at 2.30 in the morning with planning ideas, he can't sleep.
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So he's decided to do that.
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The party planners dropped a message at 2.30am. East London's mental.
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You wouldn't get that in Zone 5. Office hours, 9
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till 6.
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I tell you what, he's very surprised when we reply.
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We chat about the party and we then write a text.
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My son takes another hour to get to sleep. By
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this point, I am exhausted. Anyway, good news. My sleep
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insomnia is totally gone. All I needed to do, it
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turns out, was take my son to the hospital, and
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by then I'd be so tired, I'd just go straight
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to sleep. So I was out like a bloody light
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at half three, up at quarter past seven, and on
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with the day. And now we've got to work out
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how we've got to take our cat to have kidneys
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flushed at Beryl, if you remember, at exactly the same
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time as the school run, which would have been fine,
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but Rose is struggling to get out of bed because
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she's in such a bad way, because she didn't have
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any recovery time because she was ill.
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So I've got to deal with this this morning.
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They're both due at kidney flushing and school in opposite directions,
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both at 9.30, the cat and the daughter.
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Bye.
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Oh, and buy the book.
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I'll tell you what, if that was my cat, that
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kidney would not be getting flushed. So that's been Josh
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Whitacombe's evening. So he couldn't make 8am to do this record,
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so I'm here, but no. Bottom line is, if you
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do get your own temperature checker, make sure it works.
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I don't know if he did his own ear before
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he went to the hospital. That would have been my
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first thought. Anyway, so Josh is completely broken, it sounds,
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which is terrible for him.
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Great for us.
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So, yeah, that's why he can't be here. So it's
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just me now. Right, Michael, shall I introduce the episode?
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Yes, please.
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Okay.
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Listeners we have denise welch on today um this is
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a really really interesting uh chat really funny as well
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denise welch is an absolute me and josh will talk
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about it afterwards she just nails it she's really funny
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but also she's got lots to say and a bit
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of a trigger warning there's a lot of chat about
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depression and especially postnatal depression and denise goes into quite
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a lot of detail which is really interesting she's really
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funny about it but it's quite a serious topic at
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times But it's a really interesting story, Denise, because she
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was an addict at one point and then she met
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her current husband, Lincoln, who appears on Unbreakable on BBC,
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the new show I'm presenting about couples. And they met
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at like 6am off their head in a club and
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then got sober together and they've not touched anything since.
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And I was a bit, I preconceived ideas of Denise
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Welch before I did this programme as just sort of,
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you know, opinionated, very loud person on Loose Women. But
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actually she's one of the most, so kind and very
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like kind-hearted and emotional people. And it's so interesting seeing
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her with Lincoln and how they sort of look after
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each other because they've obviously both been through quite a lot.
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And they're amazing on the show. And she's got such
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an amazing story when you consider all the stuff she
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talks about. And then her sons have gone on to
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be actors and, you know, the lead singer of the 1975.
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It's really interesting chat. And I hope you enjoy it.
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And here is Denise Welsh.
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You know what, Michael?
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I think we could get rid of Josh and do
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it ourselves if you had a couple of kids.
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I'm just not willing to make that sacrifice. Sorry, mate.
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So you'd be willing to sort of do it and
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absolutely jib Josh out in a massive sort of cash
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grab where we literally lose a person and just split
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it two ways. However, even with all those benefits, you
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still can't bring yourself to have a child.
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I'd probably text Ellis and see if he'd do it
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for a day, right? And then you and I carve
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the rest up.
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Well, you know, if he don't show on Tuesday, then
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it's something to think about, isn't it, Michael?
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Only joking, Josh.
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Love you.
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I hope everyone feels better soon and stop checking temperatures
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in the middle of the night and going to the hospital. Right,
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here's Denise Welch. Welcome to the show, Denise Welsh. We're
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very excited to have you on, Denise.
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Very excited.
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Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
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Well, because, Denise, I've always liked you from afar without
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sounding like a stalker.
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That's weird. That's a weird start to the interview.
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I've always been interested in you from afar.
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But we met on Unbreakable, the new BBC One show,
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starting 6th of October.
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We did.
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I'm the host with some dating and relationships experts. And
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then we have a series of celebrities with their real
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life partners on the show, staying in a huge country house,
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competing for the title of Unbreakable Couple.
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It's really well put together. And because you don't know,
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you know, if you take a leap into this kind
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of sort of like hybrid reality sort of show, you know,
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everyone talks about the editing and you have no idea
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how they're going to portray you. But actually, the first
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episode is funny. But when Simon tells his story, you
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could hear a pin drop, you know? So I think
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it's going to have lots of hysterically funny moments, but
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lots of moving moments as well.
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Yeah, no, it's basically a combination. You'll love it, Josh,
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of like, I'm a celebrity.
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I'm going to be honest with you. I'm very excited.
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I'm a celebrity, big brother and all-star Mr. and Mrs. combined.
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So it's really fun and silly, but then.
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You find it. With the added bonus of Rob Beckett.
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Well, yeah. Dressed like a Swedish YouTuber.
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You can't have everything, I suppose, but there you go.
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Right, let's get on to kids. Denise, how many children
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have you got? What's your child set up?
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My child's setup is two biological and one beloved stepson.
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So I've got Matty, who is 33. I've got Louis,
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who is 21. And we have Louis, who is 30,
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who is Lincoln's son. Lincoln was four when he had Louis.
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And Louis is now about to give us our first grandchild.
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Oh, wow.
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Very exciting.
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How are you looking forward to that?
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Well, we are really looking forward to it. I mean,
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I've sort of given up on my own. I mean,
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you know, well, we were quite close to it at
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one point with Matty and then not. Louis is only 21.
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So please, obviously, I don't want any from him just now.
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We're absolutely thrilled. I mean, the only thing is, is
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there's going to be fighting over it because in the
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days of blended families, they've got about they've got all
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you know, he's got. lincoln and me then he's got
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his mom bev then he's got lizzie's parents so you
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have to sort of do a three or a four-way
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split these days but um they live in harvardshire we
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live here but we want to be as hands-on as
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we can i'm very excited.
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So where do you live today well we live.
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Between cheshire and london so we've got a place in
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london and uh and we live in cheshire so i'm
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from newcastle which is where, so when I had Matty,
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I was living in London. That's where we had Matthew.
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So I was in a very then happy marriage with
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my husband, Tim Healy. We're still very, very good friends
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to this day. And I had got an incredibly strong
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homing instinct when I was pregnant. Tim is a Geordie.
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He was a very successful actor. And that was the
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days when people said actors had to live in London.
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They don't now. Yeah. You know, this is how we
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do castings, you know, like this now, but you did
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have to, but obviously Tim was respected enough And I
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wanted to move back to the northeast. So we went back,
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got a lovely home up there near all our family.
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But I had Matthew in London after a 42-hour fucking labour.
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Oh, my God.
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Please excuse me.
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Bloody hell.
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Natural childbirth.
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No drugs or anything?
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No. And when I was, to be honest, I was
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going to, I was married to a complete champagne socialist soon.
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And we were going to have him in a national
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health hospital, but it wasn't the best hospital. So we
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did go privately against Tim's wishes, but he wanted the
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best for me. Obviously we went privately. I didn't realize
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it was a natural childbirth hospital, but when I spoke
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to them, they said, for goodness sake, Mrs. Healy, as
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I then was for goodness sake, Mrs. Healy, it's not
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the Victorian times. Of course, there's going to be pain
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relief if you require it fast forward to hit me
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over the head with a fucking spiked mallet and get
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this fucking thing out of me was my exact words. Um,
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After 42 hours. And at one point they put me in,
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when I say a birthing pool, it was like a
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kid's paddling pool, at which point there was a power
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cut and Tim had gone out for a tab.
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So I was.
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Left screaming in this paddling pool. Anyway, Matthew came out
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and all was well. And he was eight pounds. It
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was a pretty tough labor, but anyway, out he came. However,
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in pregnancy... I, and I always love any platform to
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talk about this, but I, in pregnancy, I was the
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typical blooming pregnant woman. I loved every minute of my pregnancy,
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even when it went over the due date, my hair,
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you know, they talk about people who are blooming in pregnancy.
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My hair was great. My skin was great. I didn't
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get any swollen ankles, you know, all of that kind
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of stuff. I loved being pregnant and all my friends,
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particularly my gay friends, thought, oh, the baby will come out.
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She'll hand it to someone who delivers the yellow pages
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and she'll be offered a nightclub by four in the morning. However,
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I was fine after the birth. I was breastfeeding. Everything
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was hunky-dory. In fact, the nurses in the hospital said
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to me, oh, you're the only mum who hasn't pulled
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the sort of the anxiety cord, you know, Anyway, on
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the fifth day, we went home. We had a lovely
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flat in London. Bearing in mind, and this is relevant,
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we had money in the bank. We had a very
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happy relationship and a much wanted child. And we got
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home and I was feeling very odd, which I put
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down to being the baby blues that 80% of new
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mothers have. You're incredibly emotional. People can't say a thing
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without you bursting into tears. But I knew that this
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was expected. So I sort of went with it. However-
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Got home after the fifth day. On the sixth day,
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my parents came down. I was incredibly close to my parents.
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Rob's heard me talk about this. And they came down
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and I had always longed for the day that my
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parents would see my child. And I just felt wrong.
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I felt flat. I felt really weird. And that night
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I went to bed and I had a panic attack
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and it wasn't caused, it wasn't induced by anxiety over Matthew,
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who was, you know, crying a bit for food, but
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there was nothing, nothing out of the ordinary about his, his, his,
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his babiness. Anyway, these days, 33 years later, what happened
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to me would have been a huge red flag because
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I woke up in the morning after a very short
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time of sleep and my boobs, which had been huge, huge,
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big mamas for breastfeeding had literally, they were, had gone
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to Nothing. The whole lactation process stopped. And all my
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milk had gone. And it was like empty boobs. And
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that would have been huge. The midwife came round, awful woman,
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and said to me, no, she was, she was fucking horrible.
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And she came round and she went, oh, God, that
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doesn't normally happen unless a spouse or a parent or
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a baby dies.
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You're going to have to go out and get bottle, formula.
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Luckily, my mother was with me. She told me not
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to worry about that. Anyway, whole lactation process had stopped.
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At which point my mom said, let's take the baby out.
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So it was the first time we'd taken the baby out.
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It was in Crouch End and I'd lived in Crouch
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End for 10 years. So it was somewhere I was
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very familiar with. And we walked down to this cafe.
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We sat in this cafe and I said to my mom,
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I said, I just feel very weird. I feel like
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I'm in a sort of a dream sequence as if
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I'm outside looking in. And she said, you don't feel depressed,
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do you? And I said, no, I don't feel depressed.
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I just feel very weird. Anyway, on the way back,
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we went into this corner shop to get some milk.
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And it was the day of the Hillsborough disaster, 1989.
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And I heard on the radio, 96 people have been
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killed in this horrendous disaster. And I came out and
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I told my mom, half a mile later, and I
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can remember this, I was lucid, half a mile later,
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when we got back to the flat, my mum asked
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me a question about what had happened. And I said,
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that was a dream, mum. I told you that was
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a dream. We got into the flat, a couple of
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my friends were there. And I just remember thinking, I
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want you to leave. I want you to leave. And
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all I can describe it is this blackness. I get
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quite emotional about it because anyway, it was this the
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beginning and the end of a period of my life.
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And this blackness from my toes crept up on me
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and every bit of joy in life as I knew
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it had gone. I was, I was apparently when later
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diagnosed on the verge of, it was severe postnatal depression
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on the verge of a purple psychosis. And what I
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don't remember is my mum came into the flat and
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I was on the window trying to trying to open
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the window. Now, when I talked about this subsequently, the
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press put that down as a suicide attempt.
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It wasn't.
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There was no memory of that. I didn't know what
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I was doing. I didn't know why the baby was there.
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Oh, my God.
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Anyway, my dad and Tim had gone out to play golf.
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And when they came back, the medics were around my
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bed and I was hospitalised. And it was severe postnatal depression.
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And it took me 20 years to receive... information that
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that could have been hormonal and you think how many
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women are having a baby every single day of the
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week and um i used to say to people this
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wasn't psychological i didn't have any problems in in my
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life there were no child you know the psychiatrist would
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try to find some childhood trauma yeah it had happened
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to me you know And if there was, I would
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have been the most open person to.
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Talk about that.
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But there wasn't.
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How long did it last?
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Well, that's the million dollar question, Josh, because 33 years
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is the answer to you. And I don't want to
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frighten people because for most people with postnatal depression, it
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will go and they will recover. Unfortunately for some people,
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it opens up a tendency to clinical depression. And I
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have just celebrated, if that's the word, my first time
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in 33 years, I've gone three years without an episode.
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September 19th, 2019, that was my last episode of depression.
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And I don't know why, so I'm not overthinking it
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as to why, because I'm sure it'll come back at
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some point. But, you know, it obviously then had a
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huge impact on Matthew's childhood, on on everything, but I
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am grateful of the chance to talk about it because
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people always try to pin clinical depression onto some previous trauma.
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And sometimes it is, but postnatal depression, you've just passed
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a human being through your fufu, you know, that grew
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inside your body. there are going to be some hormonal
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changes that maybe have to start being.
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Taken into account.
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Well, it's a chemical imbalance sometimes, isn't it? And it's just,
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your body's producing all these mad hormones and chemicals.
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It's a chemical chaos. And apparently the people like me,
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as a lay person, I'm well informed on it, you know,
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because obviously you can imagine how many people I've spoken
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to and how much I've read about and talked about.
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People like me, I was blooming in pregnancy. It's not
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necessarily a red flag, but I think a lot of
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people think that people who've been previously anxious or people
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who are very low or, you know, those are the
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people to look after. Nobody could have told that I
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was going to be the person. No matter how many
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psychologists say to me, we would have been able to tell,
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you wouldn't.
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Yeah, and you had lots of support. You're a confident person.
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You had that money in the bank and things like that.
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You know, it could happen to anyone.
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And I'm incredibly lucky because the only reason I'm still
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here is because I had... a loving and supportive family
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who from day one of my illness knew that I
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had an illness. If I had a pound for everybody
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that said, pull yourself together or snap out of it
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or let me take you to the metro centre and
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buy you a new dress. And I know they only
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meant well. I know they meant well.
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Were you scared about the second pregnancy then in that situation?
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Well, that's why I didn't have one for 12 years, Josh.
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And to be honest, I'd always planned on having more. But.
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We didn't for that very reason. So I got pregnant
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accidentally in Amsterdam with Louis after having a joint and
484
00:24:13.220 --> 00:24:15.519
I don't smoke weed. Louis always says, mum, please, could
485
00:24:15.539 --> 00:24:23.519
you tell that story on some more TV? But yeah,
486
00:24:23.559 --> 00:24:25.920
so that was, you know, and Tim was on his
487
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:28.740
own admission, very worried about that. He was 50 then
488
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:32.049
as well, you know? And so for lots, because he felt,
489
00:24:32.089 --> 00:24:38.599
he always said, I lost my wife. He married this happy-go-lucky,
490
00:24:39.019 --> 00:24:44.579
you know, sort of person. And he lost me for
491
00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:50.119
a long period of time. But ironically, what happened with
492
00:24:50.180 --> 00:24:53.480
Louis was, is that people say to me, did you
493
00:24:53.509 --> 00:24:57.289
get depressed after Louis? Not any more than I had
494
00:24:57.630 --> 00:25:01.150
had subsequent episodes of depression because mine had never stopped.
495
00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:04.339
They were sort of ongoing, but the good times by
496
00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:08.180
far overweighed the bad times. Also, 12 years on, I
497
00:25:08.269 --> 00:25:10.869
knew how to get through them easier.
498
00:25:10.930 --> 00:25:11.170
Yeah.
499
00:25:11.890 --> 00:25:16.109
So, but, you know, I was 42 by then as well.
500
00:25:16.150 --> 00:25:18.589
We were sort of old parents. I mean, God, thank
501
00:25:18.650 --> 00:25:22.309
God we had Louis. Amazing. But then what happened with
502
00:25:22.390 --> 00:25:27.150
Louis was I was okay. And Louis, obviously, I'd had many,
503
00:25:27.190 --> 00:25:32.099
many tests because I was older. And my friend Gordon...
504
00:25:32.619 --> 00:25:35.559
who sadly died, but he was my friend and my gynecologist.
505
00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:38.369
And he said to me, I think we should give
506
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:42.170
you an elective section because, not because I was too
507
00:25:42.230 --> 00:25:44.509
posh to push, I'm from Whitley Page, you know what.
508
00:25:46.170 --> 00:25:47.529
I mean?
509
00:25:48.269 --> 00:25:52.150
But because he said, let's do everything different. Let's make
510
00:25:52.430 --> 00:25:55.490
everything different to your first experience, just so that there
511
00:25:55.529 --> 00:25:57.930
are no sort of memory, you know, there were no
512
00:25:57.990 --> 00:25:59.890
memories of the whole thing. So I was very happy.
513
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:03.700
to do that. And I knew I was in incredibly
514
00:26:03.819 --> 00:26:08.140
safe hands with Gordon. So I'd had all the tests
515
00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:10.519
and the amniocentesis and all of those things. I knew
516
00:26:10.579 --> 00:26:12.880
I was having a healthy boy. I did have a
517
00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:16.829
healthy boy. But then in the hospital, Hope Hospital, I
518
00:26:16.869 --> 00:26:20.930
had him National Health, fabulous place in Manchester, and he
519
00:26:20.970 --> 00:26:23.450
wouldn't feed. And I was kind of desperate to breastfeed
520
00:26:23.470 --> 00:26:26.369
because I felt I'd been robbed of that experience with Matty.
521
00:26:26.890 --> 00:26:29.390
And it was something I wanted to do. So but
522
00:26:29.430 --> 00:26:34.390
he wouldn't feed. And we were trying all these, you know, contortionist.
523
00:26:33.589 --> 00:26:35.069
Sort of things to get him to latch on. Lou
524
00:26:35.089 --> 00:26:36.990
had a terrible time with it. It was really difficult
525
00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:37.240
for her.
526
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:42.059
It's really, it's really hard. And the nurses were fantastic. Anyway,
527
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:49.799
day three, suddenly Louie vomited. I can't find a green.
528
00:26:50.140 --> 00:26:51.960
This green, well, you can't see it on my cup.
529
00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:53.940
A bright, bright, bright kind of green.
530
00:26:54.009 --> 00:26:54.769
Imagine green.
531
00:26:55.369 --> 00:26:58.640
A very, very electric green. And it was like a
532
00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:03.519
projectile exorcist vomit. Anyway, he was taken to special care
533
00:27:04.180 --> 00:27:07.420
and another nightmare began. Honest to God, my fucking kids.
534
00:27:11.900 --> 00:27:13.960
It's not always like this, any would-be parents listening.
535
00:27:14.180 --> 00:27:17.170
That should have been the name of this podcast, my
536
00:27:17.230 --> 00:27:18.029
fucking kids.
537
00:27:21.930 --> 00:27:24.769
And he was taken to special care and they didn't
538
00:27:24.789 --> 00:27:28.440
know what it was. And it was horrendous. And I
539
00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:31.160
had to walk down this long, long corridor to go
540
00:27:31.180 --> 00:27:32.799
and see him in special care, which I called the
541
00:27:32.819 --> 00:27:35.190
green mile, because I never knew what was going to
542
00:27:35.210 --> 00:27:36.930
be at the end of the corridor. And I could
543
00:27:37.069 --> 00:27:39.910
tell by when I pressed the buzzer and I'd go, hello,
544
00:27:39.970 --> 00:27:44.079
it's Denise Healy. I could always tell by that voice
545
00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:46.670
whether it was the good. whether it was good or bad,
546
00:27:46.730 --> 00:27:47.039
you know.
547
00:27:47.059 --> 00:27:48.339
How old was.
548
00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:49.319
He at this stage?
549
00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:53.240
He was just born, three days old. And so he
550
00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:55.779
was in special care for two weeks, but he wouldn't,
551
00:27:57.019 --> 00:27:59.839
if he took a little tiny cap of milk, he
552
00:27:59.859 --> 00:28:03.539
would then bring it up again. Anyway, they were eliminating,
553
00:28:04.500 --> 00:28:07.400
it was a medical hospital, not a surgical hospital. So
554
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:09.460
they were eliminating everything. So they had to do the
555
00:28:09.500 --> 00:28:12.579
lumbar puncture for meningitis. And after two weeks, I just
556
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:14.940
said to them, I can't handle this anymore, guys. I
557
00:28:14.980 --> 00:28:17.339
know you're doing a brilliant job telling me what it's not,
558
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:19.789
but I need to know what it is. And they said, right.
559
00:28:20.380 --> 00:28:22.529
And they sent him and me up to Alder Hay
560
00:28:22.569 --> 00:28:26.930
Hospital in Liverpool. And he was diagnosed eventually with a
561
00:28:27.009 --> 00:28:33.730
thing called Hirschsprung disease. And Hirschsprung disease is in the
562
00:28:33.769 --> 00:28:36.529
bowel between the fifth and the twelfth week of pregnancy.
563
00:28:37.089 --> 00:28:39.430
And the nerve endings in a piece of the bowel
564
00:28:39.490 --> 00:28:44.400
don't form. So before 1948, when the first operation for
565
00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:46.940
Hirschborn was performed, he would have been a child who
566
00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:52.099
didn't thrive and because they can't eat and they can't poo. So,
567
00:28:52.779 --> 00:28:55.869
but until they go in, until they go in, until
568
00:28:55.900 --> 00:28:58.670
they do the surgery, they can't tell how much of
569
00:28:58.730 --> 00:29:02.529
the bowel is affected. So eventually after six weeks of
570
00:29:02.569 --> 00:29:05.349
him being in hospital and me being at the hospital
571
00:29:05.369 --> 00:29:07.509
with him, which was hard because Matthew was 12 and
572
00:29:07.549 --> 00:29:12.720
Matthew needed me. And anyway, They operated and there was
573
00:29:12.829 --> 00:29:15.809
nine inches of bowel missing that they had to take out.
574
00:29:15.869 --> 00:29:18.250
And they do what they call a pull through. So
575
00:29:18.309 --> 00:29:22.630
they took the diseased bowel out and they pull the
576
00:29:22.670 --> 00:29:25.710
good bits together. And so we went from doing no
577
00:29:25.789 --> 00:29:30.450
poos to doing about 24 poos an hour. So I
578
00:29:30.509 --> 00:29:33.210
was just, I'm doing all the actions here, which you
579
00:29:33.230 --> 00:29:36.450
can't see, but I just constantly would whip a nappy
580
00:29:36.490 --> 00:29:39.269
away and thrust it up and under.
581
00:29:39.309 --> 00:29:39.980
How quickly are.
582
00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:42.880
did you go, oh, you know, longing for him to poo,
583
00:29:42.900 --> 00:29:44.759
go for fuck's sake.
584
00:29:45.220 --> 00:29:48.539
Probably within about 25 seconds because you've done about three.
585
00:29:49.029 --> 00:29:53.549
And anyway, listen, thanks to Alder Hey and the brilliance,
586
00:29:53.730 --> 00:29:57.089
and would you believe this, in the whole world, there
587
00:29:57.109 --> 00:30:02.450
were two Hirschsprung specialists in the whole world working there
588
00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:05.400
on two Hirschsprung surveys, bearing in mind this is a
589
00:30:05.420 --> 00:30:12.079
condition that only affects one in 5,000 children. Wow. And anyway,
590
00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:15.920
so he was taken off the Hirschsprung register at five,
591
00:30:16.579 --> 00:30:19.920
and to anybody who has a child with this condition,
592
00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:24.880
he is now a thriving 21-year-old pain in the arse.
593
00:30:24.900 --> 00:30:25.140
Amazing.
594
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:28.480
Oh, that's brilliant.
595
00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:30.079
That's incredible.
596
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:34.180
So, Denise, obviously, when you first had your first matty
597
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:37.700
and you found out that you were struggling and it
598
00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:41.849
was quite difficult, and you had episodes as they were
599
00:30:41.869 --> 00:30:44.430
growing up, what was sort of a day-to-day life for
600
00:30:44.470 --> 00:30:46.910
you then? Was life good and you was enjoying it
601
00:30:46.950 --> 00:30:49.039
and then out of nowhere depression would creep up?
602
00:30:49.059 --> 00:30:49.210
Exactly.
603
00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:50.400
Or was it always there?
604
00:30:50.859 --> 00:30:53.660
Because there'll be people listening that may be going through
605
00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:56.140
the same thing, but... I don't want you to sort
606
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:59.000
of paint a false narrative of it being all rosy,
607
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:00.559
but there must have been points that were good and
608
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:01.519
then it switched back.
609
00:31:01.720 --> 00:31:03.059
How did it sort of work?
610
00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:07.440
That's exactly it. And I also say to anybody, because
611
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:10.680
I do do occasional talks about this and talk about
612
00:31:10.740 --> 00:31:12.920
it like now when I get a platform to, is
613
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:17.309
that I've had a wonderful life living with clinical depression.
614
00:31:19.029 --> 00:31:23.980
It's the most horrendous, isolating, crippling, debilitating illness ever. But
615
00:31:24.099 --> 00:31:27.880
my life in between has been fantastic. And if that
616
00:31:27.980 --> 00:31:30.799
sounds like a paradox, it's not meant to, but it doesn't.
617
00:31:32.140 --> 00:31:34.759
My life is still being fantastic and I wouldn't change it.
618
00:31:35.289 --> 00:31:38.029
Would I change it for the world? Yeah, I probably would.
619
00:31:38.369 --> 00:31:41.029
I probably would. But in answer to your question, it
620
00:31:41.069 --> 00:31:45.809
was probably for me about. A year before I could
621
00:31:45.829 --> 00:31:50.500
honestly say that I was having many more good days
622
00:31:51.140 --> 00:31:53.819
than bad days. The trouble is with my depression is
623
00:31:53.859 --> 00:31:56.970
that it was endogenous, not reactive. So there is nothing
624
00:31:57.029 --> 00:32:00.369
to this day that I can plan as regards... that's
625
00:32:00.390 --> 00:32:01.950
going to bring on my depression or that's not.
626
00:32:01.970 --> 00:32:02.690
Right, yeah.
627
00:32:02.819 --> 00:32:05.559
Because I think there's two types where I think me
628
00:32:05.579 --> 00:32:06.700
and Josh, I don't want to speak for Josh, but
629
00:32:06.940 --> 00:32:10.220
can get anxious or anxiety at times, which for me
630
00:32:10.299 --> 00:32:12.079
is normally when I'm overworked or stressed.
631
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:12.460
That's right.
632
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:14.059
So I know that if I put that much work
633
00:32:14.099 --> 00:32:17.079
in a diary, I will struggle with that. However, what
634
00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:19.519
you've got is not reactive to your situation. It can
635
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:21.799
just occur through hormones and chemicals.
636
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:24.180
Having said that, there are certain things, and exactly what
637
00:32:24.220 --> 00:32:27.200
you say, one of the triggers that I have to
638
00:32:27.259 --> 00:32:31.140
watch is overwhelming. And the funny thing is... It's not big,
639
00:32:31.259 --> 00:32:34.660
overwhelming things like when both my parents were sick. It's
640
00:32:34.740 --> 00:32:38.279
an overpacked diary, like you've just said, of little, some
641
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:45.029
inconsequential things that just overwhelm me and thinking ahead as well, projecting.
642
00:32:45.750 --> 00:32:49.150
And one of the areas where people like my husband
643
00:32:49.430 --> 00:32:51.670
and my then husband, I have to say, but Lincoln
644
00:32:51.829 --> 00:32:55.519
is incredible considering he didn't know anyone with depression. And
645
00:32:55.619 --> 00:32:59.369
he said in his Soho days, he would probably have
646
00:32:59.390 --> 00:33:00.970
been one of those people who said, what the fuck's
647
00:33:00.990 --> 00:33:02.809
she got to be depressed about, for God's sake?
648
00:33:02.910 --> 00:33:03.569
Do you know what I mean?
649
00:33:03.829 --> 00:33:05.710
He said he probably would have said that. But what
650
00:33:05.769 --> 00:33:09.829
Lincoln will do, he will make me stop and remove
651
00:33:09.950 --> 00:33:13.130
as much as possible out of my diary. Obviously, with
652
00:33:13.210 --> 00:33:15.329
all three of us talking now, we have certain things
653
00:33:15.390 --> 00:33:17.470
that we, we're all people who don't want to let
654
00:33:17.509 --> 00:33:20.670
people down. And as much as possible, we will work
655
00:33:20.690 --> 00:33:23.759
to that agenda. But sometimes you just have to. And
656
00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:26.299
Lincoln's very, very good with that. But going back to
657
00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:28.339
when Matthew was poorly, it was probably about a year
658
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:31.339
Then when he was 18 months old, I did an
659
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:35.900
article for the Evening Chronicle, my local paper. You know
660
00:33:35.940 --> 00:33:38.880
how your local paper champions you from the day you're
661
00:33:38.900 --> 00:33:43.039
doing star jumps from behind a tree when you get
662
00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:48.759
into drama school. And so they'd done an article and
663
00:33:48.779 --> 00:33:52.319
I spoke about what had happened to me. And my
664
00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:55.720
agent at the time, he said to me, oh, darling,
665
00:33:55.740 --> 00:33:58.359
you've made a huge mistake here. He said, you should
666
00:33:58.420 --> 00:34:01.740
not be talking about your madness. He said, you'll never
667
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:04.420
work again. And I said, I cannot go through what
668
00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:07.720
I've been through and not speak about it. Well, then
669
00:34:07.900 --> 00:34:10.840
Woman's Own or some such magazine that in the days
670
00:34:10.889 --> 00:34:12.909
when they were nice and had, you know, Roger Moore
671
00:34:12.949 --> 00:34:17.730
in the knitted suit on the cover, they picked up
672
00:34:17.769 --> 00:34:22.730
the story. And from then on, I hadn't realized how
673
00:34:23.409 --> 00:34:27.059
I was the only person on the telly talking about
674
00:34:27.099 --> 00:34:31.099
this because you've got to remember back back in 1989
675
00:34:31.099 --> 00:34:34.699
we didn't have google you couldn't put postnatal depression in
676
00:34:35.019 --> 00:34:37.000
and a local group come up that you could maybe
677
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:40.280
contact yeah there was nobody there was a thing called
678
00:34:40.300 --> 00:34:44.250
the association for postnatal illness and you had to write
679
00:34:44.369 --> 00:34:46.429
to them i couldn't even pick up a pen.
680
00:34:46.230 --> 00:34:47.690
Rob yeah of course.
681
00:34:47.449 --> 00:34:49.789
You know and if it hadn't been for my mom
682
00:34:49.829 --> 00:34:52.760
who took unpaid leave from work to be with me.
683
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:56.960
Tim was away. He was doing Casualty in Bristol and
684
00:34:56.980 --> 00:34:59.929
he was doing a series called Boone with Michael Elphick
685
00:34:59.969 --> 00:35:03.989
in Birmingham. And he was playing a club comic and
686
00:35:04.030 --> 00:35:05.789
he had to grow a moustache, like a sort of
687
00:35:05.829 --> 00:35:08.690
handlebar moustache. And he had to talk to me with
688
00:35:08.730 --> 00:35:10.989
his hand over his mouth because I was convinced that
689
00:35:11.050 --> 00:35:13.230
everyone was plotting to change everything around me.
690
00:35:13.670 --> 00:35:14.090
Oh, really?
691
00:35:14.130 --> 00:35:16.329
It was really, really weird. And I can remember all
692
00:35:16.369 --> 00:35:19.300
these things. But anyway, I got then asked to do
693
00:35:19.389 --> 00:35:23.019
things like Robert Kilroy silk show in the morning and
694
00:35:23.059 --> 00:35:27.079
the time, the place. And I was determined that even
695
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:28.980
if it did make, you know, people say, did you
696
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:30.420
lose work because of it? And I said, well, I
697
00:35:30.460 --> 00:35:32.420
don't know because if I did, you know, but I
698
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:34.099
don't want to work for people who would have not
699
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:36.179
given me work because I was vocal about having a
700
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:38.880
mental illness. And I just made it a mission that
701
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.539
I was going to, to talk about it. And if
702
00:35:41.599 --> 00:35:43.539
I was the only person talking about it, which I
703
00:35:43.579 --> 00:35:47.429
was for a time, then I would risk, you know,
704
00:35:47.489 --> 00:35:53.840
losing work if people thought I was a nutter. I
705
00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:56.389
never thought I'd, you know, this is my third marriage
706
00:35:56.449 --> 00:36:00.150
and whatever. I never thought I'd meet someone, you know,
707
00:36:00.250 --> 00:36:02.730
in my 50s, certainly not in a nightclub at six
708
00:36:02.769 --> 00:36:05.469
in the morning. You know, that would become my, if
709
00:36:05.489 --> 00:36:07.889
there is a soulmate, he is the person I want
710
00:36:07.909 --> 00:36:11.769
to be with, you know, more than anybody else. But,
711
00:36:11.809 --> 00:36:15.269
of course, that all happened. The only thing I can
712
00:36:15.309 --> 00:36:17.789
thank alcohol and drugs for is meeting Lincoln.
713
00:36:17.989 --> 00:36:18.199
Yeah.
714
00:36:18.469 --> 00:36:21.099
And getting sober together. It's such an amazing story.
715
00:36:21.179 --> 00:36:24.139
And getting sober together because, of course, what happened was,
716
00:36:24.260 --> 00:36:27.570
as a result of my illness... and trying to keep
717
00:36:27.639 --> 00:36:30.670
up with a packed diary and working in a soap opera.
718
00:36:31.010 --> 00:36:33.349
Bearing in mind, you know, when I was doing Coronation Street,
719
00:36:33.369 --> 00:36:37.110
it was watched by sometimes 21 million people an episode.
720
00:36:37.750 --> 00:36:40.110
You know, that's the third of the country watching you.
721
00:36:40.150 --> 00:36:42.130
There's a lot of fucking pressure on you for that.
722
00:36:43.030 --> 00:36:46.590
And also a schedule that just was unforgiving.
723
00:36:47.250 --> 00:36:47.429
Yeah.
724
00:36:48.420 --> 00:36:51.440
And rather than step back, because now people stay off
725
00:36:51.500 --> 00:36:56.289
work if they've lost an eyelash. And, you know, and I...
726
00:36:57.159 --> 00:37:00.159
I was just from the show must go on school
727
00:37:00.219 --> 00:37:01.300
of work.
728
00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:02.619
Yeah, of course.
729
00:37:03.519 --> 00:37:05.960
But there are times when I think I should have
730
00:37:05.980 --> 00:37:08.800
stepped back because if I'd had a kidney complaint or
731
00:37:08.820 --> 00:37:11.769
a liver disease or something, everybody would have felt sorry
732
00:37:11.809 --> 00:37:15.769
for me. But the horrible, isolating thing about depression is
733
00:37:16.050 --> 00:37:21.389
you have an invisible illness. And that's when the alcohol
734
00:37:21.630 --> 00:37:24.550
started and that's when the drugs started. So there are
735
00:37:24.590 --> 00:37:30.000
no excuses for my behaviors. but there are reasons for it.
736
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:33.769
So it doesn't excuse them, but there are reasons why
737
00:37:33.829 --> 00:37:39.250
it started. Because my problems with alcohol dependency was trying
738
00:37:39.289 --> 00:37:40.750
to numb my illness.
739
00:37:41.050 --> 00:37:43.309
What's amazing about it is you can get to 50
740
00:37:43.309 --> 00:37:45.050
and that isn't what it's like forever.
741
00:37:45.429 --> 00:37:47.389
It can change. You can turn it around.
742
00:37:47.610 --> 00:37:50.639
You know, my motto is it's never too late. It's
743
00:37:50.699 --> 00:37:52.659
never too late to find the love of your life.
744
00:37:53.019 --> 00:37:56.030
It's never too late to change your behaviours. It's never
745
00:37:56.090 --> 00:37:58.679
too late to leave a partner that you're not happy
746
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:01.800
with for both your sakes. It's never too late. You know,
747
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:03.460
there used to be that old thing in my granny's
748
00:38:03.539 --> 00:38:05.440
age of, oh, I've made me bed. I've got to
749
00:38:05.500 --> 00:38:07.239
lie in it. You don't have to anymore.
750
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:08.420
You don't have to make your bed.
751
00:38:09.260 --> 00:38:12.010
No, you don't have to make your bed. I already do.
752
00:38:12.530 --> 00:38:15.210
But sobriety is by far the thing I am most
753
00:38:15.250 --> 00:38:17.769
proud of. And that isn't just for the life it's
754
00:38:17.809 --> 00:38:19.969
given Lincoln and me. It's for the life it's given
755
00:38:20.010 --> 00:38:20.710
my boys. Yeah.
756
00:38:21.030 --> 00:38:23.550
And also as well, for you, when you're in severe
757
00:38:23.610 --> 00:38:26.989
depression and you've got a 12-year-old boy who's at school and,
758
00:38:27.150 --> 00:38:29.070
you know, you feel like you can't, you know, it's
759
00:38:29.110 --> 00:38:31.369
too much. And then you've got this new baby that
760
00:38:31.769 --> 00:38:33.380
six weeks of in a hospital, then you find it's
761
00:38:33.409 --> 00:38:36.420
got this disease and then they fix it and it's
762
00:38:36.619 --> 00:38:38.019
out and it's pooing all the time and all that
763
00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:38.780
kind of stuff.
764
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:41.000
And it's a good day, but then it's a bad day.
765
00:38:41.420 --> 00:38:43.099
I mean, how does it feel now when you turn
766
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:45.440
on the telly and he's acting and you go to
767
00:38:45.460 --> 00:38:47.760
an arena and your son's sold out arena and they're
768
00:38:47.780 --> 00:38:48.639
both blossoming?
769
00:38:49.179 --> 00:38:51.179
And smashing it. How does that feel?
770
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:54.739
There was one, there was one time that I was
771
00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:58.750
at the O2 and there was 20,000 people there and
772
00:38:58.809 --> 00:39:03.829
they knew every single lyric of my son's songs. And, and,
773
00:39:04.190 --> 00:39:08.610
and what happens is my, my normal Denise Welsh daily
774
00:39:08.650 --> 00:39:11.539
fan base is, um, Ey up, and.
775
00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:15.860
We're a loose woman. I didn't know you met my dad.
776
00:39:18.099 --> 00:39:20.139
Or the other thing is, you've got to get my
777
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:22.010
wife Sue on this show. I tell you what, she
778
00:39:22.030 --> 00:39:25.889
never shuts up. How does she get on? You know,
779
00:39:26.190 --> 00:39:29.969
that's my normal fan base. Lovely, but very, very, very approachable.
780
00:39:30.469 --> 00:39:33.070
because I am nice to people. That's just part of life.
781
00:39:33.130 --> 00:39:34.969
And I don't remember anything other than that. And I
782
00:39:34.989 --> 00:39:37.639
have a lovely, lovely fan base. Some people still think
783
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:40.159
I'm in Corrie and that's fine. It was 25 years ago,
784
00:39:40.179 --> 00:39:44.300
but never mind. But I have a lovely fan base.
785
00:39:45.460 --> 00:39:51.449
Cut to a 1975 concert. where I am suddenly the
786
00:39:51.469 --> 00:39:52.309
mother of Jesus.
787
00:39:55.349 --> 00:40:02.449
And I will arrive and people see me And I
788
00:40:02.489 --> 00:40:06.030
will see a cluster of teenage girls or girls, women
789
00:40:06.070 --> 00:40:07.050
in their early twenties.
790
00:40:07.210 --> 00:40:09.690
And they look at me and they get this voice
791
00:40:09.809 --> 00:40:13.789
like this. They go, oh my God, there she is.
792
00:40:15.010 --> 00:40:18.230
And honest to God, there was once when I was
793
00:40:18.349 --> 00:40:20.369
at Blackpool and he was playing with the Royal Philharmonic
794
00:40:20.429 --> 00:40:22.710
Orchestra and I was on like a balcony. And as
795
00:40:22.849 --> 00:40:26.219
I arrived, some people downstairs spotted me. They looked up
796
00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:28.659
and they all started cheering and I was waving. And
797
00:40:28.699 --> 00:40:30.900
the next day somebody put on Twitter, me waving and
798
00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:39.199
it said, Don't cry for me, Blackpool. But in answer
799
00:40:39.219 --> 00:40:41.840
to your question, I was at the O2, there's 20,000
800
00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:44.880
people that all sing in the words of my son's
801
00:40:44.940 --> 00:40:47.280
song that he wrote, because he writes with George and
802
00:40:47.300 --> 00:40:50.429
the band, but he writes the lyrics. And I just
803
00:40:50.550 --> 00:40:53.090
wanted to point to my vagina and say, could we
804
00:40:53.309 --> 00:40:55.650
all just please get on your fucking knees and say
805
00:40:55.809 --> 00:40:59.619
all hail? Because it was 42 hours of agony and
806
00:40:59.619 --> 00:41:07.639
30 years of depression. But obviously, I couldn't be prouder
807
00:41:07.780 --> 00:41:11.420
of them both. Louis is a young actor. I'll be
808
00:41:11.460 --> 00:41:15.449
perfectly honest. And like I said before we started, I've
809
00:41:15.489 --> 00:41:17.630
got to respect the boys when I talk about them
810
00:41:17.670 --> 00:41:20.530
because We have a laugh, me and Matthew, about people
811
00:41:20.550 --> 00:41:22.969
who think there's any kind of nepotism, you know? And
812
00:41:23.050 --> 00:41:26.889
Matthew always thinks he drew the nepotism short card because
813
00:41:26.929 --> 00:41:29.269
someone put the other day, how could that bird of
814
00:41:29.329 --> 00:41:35.159
loose women and the transvestite from Benidorm give birth to Matthew?
815
00:41:35.980 --> 00:41:37.940
And he said, yeah.
816
00:41:38.579 --> 00:41:42.199
He said, I drew the nepotism short card. Because the
817
00:41:42.260 --> 00:41:45.809
fact is, the band is a success despite me not
818
00:41:45.889 --> 00:41:48.750
because of that. What I know about music is that.
819
00:41:49.369 --> 00:41:52.230
So I was always on strict instructions about what not
820
00:41:52.269 --> 00:41:54.849
to post. And, you know, oh, God, because I just
821
00:41:54.909 --> 00:41:57.570
wanted to be a proud parent. But he'd say, and
822
00:41:57.610 --> 00:42:00.110
I'd go, well, I bet Chris Martin doesn't stop his
823
00:42:00.190 --> 00:42:04.389
mum from posting. He goes, because she's Mrs. Martin from Doncaster,
824
00:42:04.409 --> 00:42:07.250
you're Denise Walsh. You've got a million followers.
825
00:42:08.389 --> 00:42:11.070
So what are the rules? What are the rules imposed
826
00:42:11.110 --> 00:42:11.809
by Matt?
827
00:42:11.849 --> 00:42:15.329
The rules have changed a little bit because Matthew, he's
828
00:42:15.389 --> 00:42:18.269
much more celebratory of me now. He feels much more confident.
829
00:42:18.289 --> 00:42:19.010
He's always been.
830
00:42:18.889 --> 00:42:19.469
Proud of me.
831
00:42:19.530 --> 00:42:19.650
Yeah.
832
00:42:20.050 --> 00:42:22.550
But you've got to remember that when you're in a
833
00:42:22.590 --> 00:42:25.210
band like the 1975, there's a lot of people around that,
834
00:42:25.230 --> 00:42:26.929
a lot of record companies and a lot of this
835
00:42:26.969 --> 00:42:29.320
and a lot of that. So certain things that I
836
00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:31.539
would say would be picked up by the sun and
837
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:33.800
the mirror. Right. And they're doing talks with the posh
838
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:35.760
papers and the music magazines and stuff.
839
00:42:36.219 --> 00:42:36.340
So.
840
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:39.059
He took a long time trying to get away from
841
00:42:39.099 --> 00:42:40.340
being Denise Welsh's son.
842
00:42:40.489 --> 00:42:40.789
Yes.
843
00:42:41.050 --> 00:42:44.010
Not that he was embarrassed by it, but he's a superb...
844
00:42:44.349 --> 00:42:45.170
you know, songwriter.
845
00:42:45.190 --> 00:42:46.570
Yeah, when he's establishing himself.
846
00:42:46.630 --> 00:42:48.789
Like now, I think, like you say, he's older and
847
00:42:48.869 --> 00:42:52.469
you sort of become more self-confident. Yeah, and it's like, no,
848
00:42:52.530 --> 00:42:54.489
the 1975 is so big now, it's like, but at
849
00:42:54.510 --> 00:42:56.800
the start, he was probably more insecure about it than now.
850
00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:00.820
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, you don't realise, I think
851
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:03.820
as famous parents, the kids don't come, you know, and
852
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:06.400
you guys have, your kids won't come home from school
853
00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:08.860
and say, oh, Johnny said this about you and Susie
854
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:10.250
said that about you. But the kids do.
855
00:43:10.300 --> 00:43:10.480
Yeah.
856
00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:12.880
You know, I was on the cover. You've got to remember,
857
00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:15.639
I was a real... and this is not victim I'm
858
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:18.880
never a victim but I was I was real tabloid
859
00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:21.739
fodder and I did give them a lot to talk
860
00:43:21.780 --> 00:43:24.590
about so yeah I was constantly on the front of
861
00:43:24.650 --> 00:43:27.809
those women's magazines and I use women's magazines in inverted
862
00:43:27.849 --> 00:43:30.610
commas and they're not but anyway I was on the
863
00:43:30.650 --> 00:43:33.090
front of them all the time and it was always
864
00:43:33.150 --> 00:43:35.710
my marriage hell my drug hell my toy boy hell
865
00:43:35.829 --> 00:43:38.889
my this hell I mean, me giving up drinking, I
866
00:43:38.989 --> 00:43:41.210
think probably nearly put them out of business because they
867
00:43:41.230 --> 00:43:43.809
were so desperate to find another hell that I could
868
00:43:43.849 --> 00:43:44.769
be in, you know?
869
00:43:44.789 --> 00:43:45.190
Yeah.
870
00:43:45.309 --> 00:43:47.010
My washing up hell, anything.
871
00:43:48.170 --> 00:43:52.199
My new quiet life hell. My son's a star hell.
872
00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:55.519
But the thing is that, you know, my kids grew
873
00:43:55.579 --> 00:43:56.639
up around that noise.
874
00:43:56.940 --> 00:43:57.880
Well, not so much Louis.
875
00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:00.219
He says he doesn't remember. The other thing was is
876
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:02.969
that Matty and I have had to have a real
877
00:44:03.050 --> 00:44:06.349
coming together of minds. And I will talk about this because...
878
00:44:06.739 --> 00:44:12.360
Matthew was, without a doubt, affected by my alcoholism. And
879
00:44:14.139 --> 00:44:18.300
without a doubt. He says now that it was a
880
00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:22.119
rock and roll house to a degree. There was always
881
00:44:22.179 --> 00:44:25.300
people there. The boys started their band in the garage
882
00:44:25.489 --> 00:44:30.469
at our old house. Lincoln started his career in our garage.
883
00:44:30.889 --> 00:44:33.949
I'm going to soon do a bonnet drama in the
884
00:44:33.989 --> 00:44:35.769
garage and see if I have the same.
885
00:44:35.590 --> 00:44:36.250
Kind of dance success.
886
00:44:36.269 --> 00:44:40.090
Can Josh go and write some jokes in this, if
887
00:44:40.349 --> 00:44:40.730
it helps?
888
00:44:41.110 --> 00:44:43.210
But, you know, they started in the garage. I would
889
00:44:43.250 --> 00:44:45.460
wake up to do Loose Women and step over people
890
00:44:45.500 --> 00:44:47.460
in the kitchen on the floor, you know, and Matthew
891
00:44:47.500 --> 00:44:49.920
would go, oh, hi, Mum, that's such and such from
892
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:52.619
One Night Only and that's such and such from Airship
893
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:55.670
and all these bands. But we were often up till two.
894
00:44:55.730 --> 00:44:58.889
It was a party house. And Matty accepts that a
895
00:44:58.929 --> 00:45:01.570
lot of who he is is because of that. But also,
896
00:45:02.010 --> 00:45:07.519
when you are drinking and doing cocaine, which is the.
897
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:15.460
Worst drug that lies to you, that cripples you, that
898
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:18.239
takes away your moral compass, that.
899
00:45:18.889 --> 00:45:21.880
Only makes you feel good for 40 minutes. But unfortunately,
900
00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:26.500
I became very, very reliant on it in an attempt
901
00:45:26.920 --> 00:45:28.440
to medicate myself.
902
00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:30.730
Was that a daily thing or more like a weekend
903
00:45:30.769 --> 00:45:31.449
blowout thing?
904
00:45:31.909 --> 00:45:34.590
No, sometimes it depended where I was. The thing is,
905
00:45:35.329 --> 00:45:38.610
I brought up two wonderful children, so I wasn't the
906
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:43.800
kind of alcoholic. that went to the, you know, because
907
00:45:43.820 --> 00:45:45.710
I know I'm not envisioned and I talk with my hands.
908
00:45:46.570 --> 00:45:49.769
I wasn't the kind of alcoholic that opened the cupboard
909
00:45:49.809 --> 00:45:52.369
in the morning, took out a bottle of vodka and
910
00:45:52.469 --> 00:45:54.610
put it in a cup and drank it. That wasn't
911
00:45:54.650 --> 00:45:58.650
the kind of alcoholic I was. I was a binge alcoholic.
912
00:45:58.809 --> 00:46:01.219
So I wasn't, if I was drinking in the day,
913
00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:03.940
it's because it was the hangover from the night before.
914
00:46:04.219 --> 00:46:07.469
I didn't drink in the day. And also, because my
915
00:46:07.530 --> 00:46:09.659
life was so split between being at home and being
916
00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:13.500
in London, either on acting, well, not necessarily London, but anywhere,
917
00:46:13.940 --> 00:46:15.699
you know, when I was doing Soldier, Soldier, I was
918
00:46:15.780 --> 00:46:19.329
in Germany doing this and doing that. I was away
919
00:46:19.409 --> 00:46:21.510
from home a lot. So I did have, it wasn't
920
00:46:21.530 --> 00:46:24.590
that I was always with Matty, you know. And I
921
00:46:24.630 --> 00:46:28.389
was a perfectly functioning... You're never really functioning as an alcoholic,
922
00:46:28.409 --> 00:46:30.889
but as regards doing the school run, I wasn't drunk
923
00:46:30.929 --> 00:46:32.650
doing the school run. You know what I mean?
924
00:46:32.690 --> 00:46:33.829
It wasn't that sort of.
925
00:46:33.829 --> 00:46:35.340
When it gets to six o'clock and the kids are
926
00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:38.139
sort of in bed, you start drinking and you carry
927
00:46:38.199 --> 00:46:39.760
on drinking and then get up hungover.
928
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:42.500
Or if I was away from home, I would be
929
00:46:42.539 --> 00:46:44.780
drinking and I would be up all night and go
930
00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:48.199
straight to work. But in those days, that wouldn't happen
931
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:49.800
now on TV shows.
932
00:46:50.139 --> 00:46:50.550
But, you know.
933
00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:54.539
There were times when I should have not been on.
934
00:46:54.579 --> 00:46:54.780
Yeah.
935
00:46:54.920 --> 00:46:57.699
But it was a different time. We all talk about that.
936
00:46:57.800 --> 00:47:01.389
It was a different time. Because my drinking really started
937
00:47:02.289 --> 00:47:05.590
to be a problem, probably during the Coronation Street time.
938
00:47:05.630 --> 00:47:06.630
So Matthew was 10, 11 then.
939
00:47:06.750 --> 00:47:06.989
Right.
940
00:47:07.030 --> 00:47:09.050
Then it sort of escalated.
941
00:47:09.210 --> 00:47:11.650
Listen, guys, I'd always loved a party. Yeah. But, you know,
942
00:47:11.690 --> 00:47:13.860
that was getting pissed on a Saturday night and feeling
943
00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:15.679
a bit rough on a Sunday type of person.
944
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:16.179
Yeah, of course.
945
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:21.530
You know, I didn't have a problem. So Matthew and
946
00:47:21.670 --> 00:47:25.690
I have really, really, he's grown so much as a
947
00:47:25.750 --> 00:47:28.739
person because he was thrust into this kind of superstardom.
948
00:47:29.159 --> 00:47:32.000
You know, he started the band when he was 13.
949
00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:35.440
And when they were 21, 22 is when Chocolate happened.
950
00:47:35.460 --> 00:47:37.579
So these guys have been together as a band for
951
00:47:37.579 --> 00:47:41.750
20 years. You know, 20 years they've just celebrated as
952
00:47:41.789 --> 00:47:44.909
a band. And that's what Matthew said about this outing now,
953
00:47:45.150 --> 00:47:48.170
this tour. after the three years we've had, he said,
954
00:47:48.610 --> 00:47:50.750
I just want to be in a group with my
955
00:47:50.789 --> 00:47:53.989
best friends, making and playing good music again together. And
956
00:47:54.030 --> 00:47:57.360
that's what I think this next tour is going to celebrate.
957
00:47:57.440 --> 00:47:59.480
But I just think there were things that Matthew would
958
00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:02.280
point out to me that I'd said and done that
959
00:48:02.659 --> 00:48:05.760
I would be defensive about because I didn't remember. But
960
00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:09.079
subsequently Matthew loves and adores me. And of course he's
961
00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:12.800
had his own issues. So he understands addiction. I have
962
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:18.820
a son who understands addiction. And we are incredibly close.
963
00:48:18.860 --> 00:48:21.659
He did talking, going back to what I'm supposed to
964
00:48:21.719 --> 00:48:25.340
post and everything. Now, I just, but it was a
965
00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:31.039
few months ago when I saw something, some song clip
966
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:33.889
that had come out and I put it on Instagram
967
00:48:33.929 --> 00:48:36.090
and I put, you know, can't wait to see them
968
00:48:36.150 --> 00:48:38.849
on tour or something. And Matty rang me and he said, hi, mum.
969
00:48:39.590 --> 00:48:41.590
He said, are you OK? I said, yeah. He said, Mum,
970
00:48:41.610 --> 00:48:43.989
I love you very much. And I went, right, OK.
971
00:48:44.510 --> 00:48:45.389
A good start.
972
00:48:45.670 --> 00:48:49.380
He said, but you've just announced our tour. And we
973
00:48:49.389 --> 00:48:53.300
haven't announced it yet. And he said, my phone is
974
00:48:53.360 --> 00:48:56.079
just rung off the hook with every agent I've got,
975
00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:58.619
every record company and Universal.
976
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:02.199
Oh, my goodness. Your mother's just announced the tour.
977
00:49:02.460 --> 00:49:03.119
Amazing.
978
00:49:03.139 --> 00:49:05.880
The amount of planning that goes into a tour announcement.
979
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:09.920
Oh, my God. So I do, I am aware, and
980
00:49:09.940 --> 00:49:11.820
I do have to be careful. And of course now,
981
00:49:11.900 --> 00:49:15.050
Louis is 21. He's just come back yesterday from, he's
982
00:49:15.070 --> 00:49:18.329
been filming a series in Croatia. So of course, you know,
983
00:49:18.510 --> 00:49:21.039
he's seen everything that's happened with Matty. So Louis will
984
00:49:21.059 --> 00:49:24.289
send me a picture and underneath it just says, don't
985
00:49:24.429 --> 00:49:25.550
post obs.
986
00:49:26.030 --> 00:49:26.230
Obs.
987
00:49:29.750 --> 00:49:32.329
Was it like when so you said he started the
988
00:49:32.349 --> 00:49:35.110
band at 13 or whatever yeah and it was presumably
989
00:49:35.150 --> 00:49:37.289
it was just like a hobby that a teenager's doing
990
00:49:37.929 --> 00:49:41.469
do you do you remember like it becoming serious like
991
00:49:41.630 --> 00:49:44.090
do you remember that transition to thinking this is actually
992
00:49:44.110 --> 00:49:45.010
going to happen.
993
00:49:45.070 --> 00:49:49.760
I remember knowing that that music was in his bones
994
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:52.239
as we as we say his dad's very musical you
995
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:54.280
know obviously Tim is known as an actor but he's
996
00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:59.440
very musical he's an incredible singer And I'm an actress
997
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:03.139
who can sing. You've had a top 30.
998
00:50:03.139 --> 00:50:04.710
You had a single in the charts?
999
00:50:05.789 --> 00:50:08.730
I did. It was straight in at 23 and straight
1000
00:50:08.869 --> 00:50:10.010
out the following week.
1001
00:50:10.030 --> 00:50:12.630
That's good though, 23.
1002
00:50:12.630 --> 00:50:14.210
Yeah, but it was only off the back of being
1003
00:50:14.269 --> 00:50:18.329
in Soldier, Soldier, Josh. You know, Robson and Jerome had
1004
00:50:18.349 --> 00:50:20.239
had a hit. And so they thought, you know, oh,
1005
00:50:20.260 --> 00:50:22.300
let's try and see if we can emulate that. Sadly,
1006
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:22.840
it didn't work.
1007
00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:25.099
Um josh you've got any more questions for denise before
1008
00:50:25.139 --> 00:50:26.800
i go into our final one.
1009
00:50:26.820 --> 00:50:29.579
I've got about 400 but i think we uh you know.
1010
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:32.460
We'll have to do a second part once the grandchild.
1011
00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:36.420
Arrived absolutely i genuinely it's been an absolutely lovely way
1012
00:50:36.440 --> 00:50:39.840
to spend an hour i've uh thoroughly enjoyed myself oh
1013
00:50:39.949 --> 00:50:43.210
thank you it's also just really i think it's really
1014
00:50:43.349 --> 00:50:45.750
important the things you talk about and how open you
1015
00:50:45.789 --> 00:50:48.110
are about them and i just think loads of people
1016
00:50:48.130 --> 00:50:50.789
will have such a great reaction to this. And it's,
1017
00:50:51.550 --> 00:50:56.090
I think, what would you kind of, your advice be
1018
00:50:56.150 --> 00:50:58.820
to people if they think they've got postnatal depression?
1019
00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:03.340
Well, the thing is, Josh, is that unfortunately, mental illness
1020
00:51:03.539 --> 00:51:07.059
and mental health in this country has always been secondary
1021
00:51:07.099 --> 00:51:11.130
to physical health. And the two are absolutely entwined. I mean,
1022
00:51:11.230 --> 00:51:14.460
when I When I get an episode of my, what
1023
00:51:14.539 --> 00:51:18.019
heralds an episode of my illness is that I will
1024
00:51:18.059 --> 00:51:21.179
often know a couple of days before that something might
1025
00:51:21.239 --> 00:51:25.960
be brewing because I start to panic about the slightest
1026
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:29.340
things like two dishes on a, on, you know, I'm
1027
00:51:29.380 --> 00:51:31.599
not a, I'm not a clean freak. I'm not a housewife.
1028
00:51:31.860 --> 00:51:34.320
Absolutely no way. I like my house clean, but it's
1029
00:51:34.460 --> 00:51:38.409
untidy and chaotic. Little tiny things start to really, and
1030
00:51:38.449 --> 00:51:40.269
Lincoln will go, are you okay? And I go, yeah, yeah, yeah,
1031
00:51:40.289 --> 00:51:42.530
I'm fine, I'm fine. But when are you going to
1032
00:51:42.889 --> 00:51:44.789
take those things back to the studio? You know, I
1033
00:51:44.829 --> 00:51:49.380
get really angsty about little things. And then just before
1034
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:52.500
an episode, I get a metallic taste in my mouth
1035
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:54.559
as if you've put a coin in your mouth and
1036
00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:56.900
I get a tingling in my palms. And usually if
1037
00:51:56.960 --> 00:51:59.730
that happens within 30 seconds, I'm in a depression. And
1038
00:51:59.750 --> 00:52:03.150
there's a certain, you know how perfumes are very evocative.
1039
00:52:03.570 --> 00:52:06.150
There's a perfume that my mum had when she came
1040
00:52:06.190 --> 00:52:08.190
to stay with me for three days, but ended up
1041
00:52:08.230 --> 00:52:11.719
staying for six weeks. That perfume, if I ever walk
1042
00:52:11.739 --> 00:52:14.619
past it, I will get a rush of anxiety because
1043
00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:18.880
it takes me back to those days. But luckily they've
1044
00:52:18.900 --> 00:52:23.679
stopped making it now, obviously because of that. But it's
1045
00:52:23.719 --> 00:52:28.309
a very intertwining of physical and mental. What I would
1046
00:52:28.349 --> 00:52:31.559
say to people is, We have this thing called, you know,
1047
00:52:31.639 --> 00:52:34.889
it's good to talk. Britain Get Talking, all these sort
1048
00:52:34.929 --> 00:52:37.590
of things. It is so important to talk, but it's
1049
00:52:37.670 --> 00:52:41.949
all very well to hold up signs saying it's good
1050
00:52:42.010 --> 00:52:45.170
to talk, but people have got to listen because people
1051
00:52:45.210 --> 00:52:47.530
are still treated very differently at work if they say,
1052
00:52:47.909 --> 00:52:51.670
I can't come in because I've got a heart complaint,
1053
00:52:52.369 --> 00:52:54.309
as opposed to I can't come in because I've got
1054
00:52:54.369 --> 00:52:58.230
extreme anxiety and depression. And there is still a lot
1055
00:52:58.389 --> 00:53:01.389
of work to do. And I do find there's a
1056
00:53:01.409 --> 00:53:03.949
lot of virtue signaling around the words of it's good
1057
00:53:03.969 --> 00:53:08.250
to talk. And but the thing is now is that
1058
00:53:08.329 --> 00:53:11.340
back in the day, even if I wasn't well enough
1059
00:53:11.400 --> 00:53:13.539
to do it now, if you say lived in, I
1060
00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:17.380
don't know, Birmingham, there will be a waiting list for
1061
00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:22.420
you to access national health, mental health services. It's absolutely appalling.
1062
00:53:22.690 --> 00:53:27.269
And especially with young people, it's appalling. But that's another conversation,
1063
00:53:27.389 --> 00:53:31.619
you know, that needs to be addressed. But now, if
1064
00:53:31.659 --> 00:53:33.699
you're in sort of, I don't know, you live in
1065
00:53:33.739 --> 00:53:37.360
Edgbaston near Birmingham, where my goddaughter lives, you could now
1066
00:53:37.400 --> 00:53:41.900
Google depression services Edgbaston. And there will be some group,
1067
00:53:42.380 --> 00:53:45.800
some support group, some help group that you could approach
1068
00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:48.099
that would help you bridge the gap before you can
1069
00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:51.019
maybe get medical services. It's not the be all and
1070
00:53:51.079 --> 00:53:53.440
end all, but it's just a group of people who
1071
00:53:53.480 --> 00:53:56.679
will understand what you're going through. When you are in
1072
00:53:56.699 --> 00:53:59.690
a massive depression, you can't talk to anyone. So that
1073
00:53:59.750 --> 00:54:02.210
is maybe when the people around you need to look
1074
00:54:02.269 --> 00:54:04.769
for some kind of support mechanism for you when you
1075
00:54:04.829 --> 00:54:07.929
are well enough to do that. Yeah. And, you know,
1076
00:54:08.070 --> 00:54:10.929
joining any kind of group and talking about it is
1077
00:54:11.170 --> 00:54:15.579
absolutely amazing therapy. The other thing is, you know, people say, well,
1078
00:54:15.619 --> 00:54:18.440
get outside walking. I try and do that a lot
1079
00:54:18.480 --> 00:54:20.780
when I'm well. When I'm poorly, I can't even get
1080
00:54:20.840 --> 00:54:23.239
out of bed. So that's when the people around you
1081
00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:25.260
have just got to make sure that you just do
1082
00:54:25.340 --> 00:54:27.320
exactly what you do. And if that's staying in bed
1083
00:54:27.380 --> 00:54:31.159
for four days, Clear the diary. Yeah. And just be
1084
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:32.079
there for the person.
1085
00:54:32.969 --> 00:54:35.530
Denise, last question is Lincoln, who I fell in love
1086
00:54:35.550 --> 00:54:37.849
with Lincoln on the show when you came on Unbreakable.
1087
00:54:37.889 --> 00:54:38.789
He's such a lovely bloke.
1088
00:54:39.070 --> 00:54:41.170
And it was so sweet seeing how you two interact,
1089
00:54:41.210 --> 00:54:44.429
especially knowing your backstory now. But the question is, it's
1090
00:54:44.489 --> 00:54:46.630
a bit different because you sort of met Lincoln when
1091
00:54:46.670 --> 00:54:48.429
his son was a bit older. But what is the
1092
00:54:48.530 --> 00:54:50.809
one thing about Lincoln as a parent that annoys you?
1093
00:54:50.849 --> 00:54:52.449
And what's the thing you love the most about him
1094
00:54:52.809 --> 00:54:53.369
as a parent?
1095
00:54:53.789 --> 00:54:57.760
Lincoln is a much stricter parent than me. Yeah. But
1096
00:54:57.800 --> 00:55:01.900
it's interesting because obviously with Matthew, he's never parented Matthew.
1097
00:55:01.940 --> 00:55:04.960
Matthew's 33. Lincoln's only coming up 50. Obviously, you know,
1098
00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:08.679
he's a young'un and, you know, well done me. And
1099
00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:12.619
so he's a friend to Matthew and they're both huge
1100
00:55:12.679 --> 00:55:16.409
fans of each other. Louis was nine or 10. And so,
1101
00:55:16.849 --> 00:55:19.809
and it's very, very difficult as people know to come
1102
00:55:19.849 --> 00:55:22.730
in as a step-parent, especially when Louis has a dad who,
1103
00:55:23.469 --> 00:55:27.659
who is a great dad who Lincoln respects totally. And
1104
00:55:27.699 --> 00:55:31.239
there were times in Louis' upbringing that I honestly felt
1105
00:55:31.340 --> 00:55:35.460
that Lincoln was being too strict. But now Louis says,
1106
00:55:35.780 --> 00:55:38.760
I am so glad that I have those boundaries. Because
1107
00:55:39.019 --> 00:55:41.679
I was the person who said, if you don't do that,
1108
00:55:42.050 --> 00:55:44.570
I have told you five times, I will take that Xbox,
1109
00:55:44.610 --> 00:55:47.449
whatever it is, away from you. And then, because I
1110
00:55:47.489 --> 00:55:49.690
didn't want to have to fill in the Xbox time myself,
1111
00:55:49.809 --> 00:55:54.019
I would give the Xbox time, you know? And Lincoln wouldn't.
1112
00:55:54.420 --> 00:55:57.320
And so I think, so it's not really a fault.
1113
00:55:57.889 --> 00:56:01.289
To be honest, it's very difficult to say. I think,
1114
00:56:01.349 --> 00:56:03.409
you know, you would have to talk to Lewis as well.
1115
00:56:03.849 --> 00:56:08.989
Lewis is Lincoln's son. I have a great relationship with Lewis. Again,
1116
00:56:09.070 --> 00:56:12.489
he was 18 and he saw his dad go through
1117
00:56:12.510 --> 00:56:16.889
a lot. You know, they have become so incredibly, incredibly close.
1118
00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:19.940
But I think that when our kids address these issues
1119
00:56:19.980 --> 00:56:22.570
that they've been through, Lincoln and I were both very
1120
00:56:22.610 --> 00:56:25.130
defensive about it. And that's something that we would change
1121
00:56:25.190 --> 00:56:27.170
because nobody wants to be told what you did wrong.
1122
00:56:27.230 --> 00:56:28.449
Yeah, especially by your kids.
1123
00:56:28.769 --> 00:56:32.190
Especially by your kids. You absolutely don't want to. And
1124
00:56:32.269 --> 00:56:33.989
so you fight back and say, well, you should be
1125
00:56:34.030 --> 00:56:36.130
bloody lucky because this, that, and the other. You've got
1126
00:56:36.150 --> 00:56:37.969
this and you've got this and that's not the way
1127
00:56:37.989 --> 00:56:42.360
around it. You should listen to your kids. And what
1128
00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:44.500
is it? They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
1129
00:56:44.539 --> 00:56:47.380
You know, that expression. You know, and we do to
1130
00:56:47.420 --> 00:56:49.579
a point. But at the same time, we are always
1131
00:56:49.619 --> 00:56:52.719
reminding our children how incredibly lucky they are to have us.
1132
00:56:52.820 --> 00:56:56.480
But Lincoln is Lincoln is he's a great dad and
1133
00:56:56.539 --> 00:56:59.280
he's a great husband. And, you know, another thing, if
1134
00:56:59.340 --> 00:57:03.219
anybody's thinking of addressing what sobriety does, you know, I mean,
1135
00:57:03.239 --> 00:57:04.739
you've got to remember that when I met Lincoln in
1136
00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:06.949
the nightclub at six in the morning, he was the
1137
00:57:06.969 --> 00:57:10.670
PR and marketing manager for Stringfellows. And only three years ago,
1138
00:57:10.750 --> 00:57:13.090
I was clearing out some numbers in my phone. And
1139
00:57:13.130 --> 00:57:15.429
I found one that said Lincoln from Stringfellows when he
1140
00:57:15.449 --> 00:57:16.360
was a booty call.
1141
00:57:18.760 --> 00:57:20.079
Denise, absolute pleasure.
1142
00:57:20.099 --> 00:57:20.949
Absolute joy.
1143
00:57:20.980 --> 00:57:23.239
Loved working with you on Unbreakable.
1144
00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:25.099
And I can't wait to see the finished show.
1145
00:57:25.199 --> 00:57:27.099
And we'll get you back on when the grandchilds arrive.
1146
00:57:27.619 --> 00:57:28.199
Absolutely.
1147
00:57:28.260 --> 00:57:28.800
Thanks, guys.
1148
00:57:28.860 --> 00:57:30.000
I've really loved it. Thank you.
1149
00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:33.059
Denise Welsh.
1150
00:57:33.079 --> 00:57:34.920
What a woman. We've still got our cameras on, Rob.
1151
00:57:34.940 --> 00:57:36.500
We've still got our cameras on, which is weird when
1152
00:57:36.519 --> 00:57:37.079
there's no guest.
1153
00:57:37.199 --> 00:57:40.340
OK, let's turn them off. Denise Welsh. Amazing story, isn't it?
1154
00:57:40.619 --> 00:57:41.829
It's an incredible story.
1155
00:57:41.889 --> 00:57:44.269
Well, she's so funny and interesting, but also got stuff
1156
00:57:44.289 --> 00:57:47.130
to talk about. And yeah, no, I just I found
1157
00:57:47.170 --> 00:57:49.989
her story, her and Lincoln. So that Unbreakable show on
1158
00:57:50.030 --> 00:57:53.869
BBC One, October 6th. And it genuinely I've knocked out
1159
00:57:53.889 --> 00:57:54.929
some shit in my time, Josh.
1160
00:57:55.829 --> 00:57:56.429
Oh, we all have.
1161
00:57:56.489 --> 00:57:57.469
We've all got our own living.
1162
00:57:57.570 --> 00:58:00.349
I mean, there's some carpenters listening that have probably got
1163
00:58:00.369 --> 00:58:01.889
a couple of cupboards at the back of their head going,
1164
00:58:02.190 --> 00:58:03.010
that was a shit cupboard.
1165
00:58:03.269 --> 00:58:04.090
But that's life.
1166
00:58:04.130 --> 00:58:05.829
Sometimes you have good ones, sometimes you have bad ones.
1167
00:58:05.849 --> 00:58:08.260
But it's unbreakable, genuinely. Lou watched it and she hates everything.
1168
00:58:08.300 --> 00:58:09.800
I wouldn't want to hear that from a carpenter.
1169
00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:10.239
No.
1170
00:58:11.590 --> 00:58:13.949
Like, I think in our game, you can have good
1171
00:58:13.989 --> 00:58:16.570
and bad. If a carpenter turned up and goes, I've
1172
00:58:16.610 --> 00:58:18.679
knocked out some shit carpenter, we'll see how this one goes.
1173
00:58:18.900 --> 00:58:19.840
Well, that's life, isn't it?
1174
00:58:20.179 --> 00:58:22.599
Not everyone smashes a day at work. But it's really good,
1175
00:58:22.619 --> 00:58:24.239
this show, because what I like about.
1176
00:58:24.099 --> 00:58:25.530
It is because I'm nosy. You get to see how
1177
00:58:25.570 --> 00:58:27.130
real relationships work. And normally.
1178
00:58:27.630 --> 00:58:29.610
relationships and tv are all a bit fake but when
1179
00:58:29.630 --> 00:58:31.250
you've got your real life partner on the show with
1180
00:58:31.269 --> 00:58:34.510
you like stephen bailey very funny comedian with rich he
1181
00:58:34.550 --> 00:58:36.849
loses his persona a little bit because he becomes stephen
1182
00:58:36.869 --> 00:58:39.780
bailey the person and sammy denise welsh shirley ballas and
1183
00:58:39.800 --> 00:58:42.599
all these people um and it's simon western and stuff
1184
00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:44.739
and that oh my god the simon western stuff is
1185
00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:48.300
so heartbreaking and he loves his wife so much anyway
1186
00:58:48.320 --> 00:58:50.960
it's really great show october 6th bbc one i sort
1187
00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:52.820
of uh lincoln and denise i've got to know on
1188
00:58:52.860 --> 00:58:55.079
that that's how we got denise on the show Yeah,
1189
00:58:55.280 --> 00:58:56.619
and she's brilliant. We'll try and get a few of
1190
00:58:56.639 --> 00:58:58.539
the other guys off the show on as well. It's
1191
00:58:58.579 --> 00:59:01.059
nice to be so honest about her depression and like
1192
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:02.900
her drinking and stuff and how it affected the kids
1193
00:59:02.969 --> 00:59:05.030
and how she come back from that. Because I think,
1194
00:59:05.110 --> 00:59:07.690
you know, people do go through things and I, you know,
1195
00:59:07.789 --> 00:59:09.510
some people get it sorted before they have kids, but
1196
00:59:09.550 --> 00:59:11.820
some people. it starts when they have kids or finishes
1197
00:59:11.989 --> 00:59:14.199
when they're having kids so it's nice you know to
1198
00:59:14.260 --> 00:59:17.059
know that you can you know come back from what
1199
00:59:17.099 --> 00:59:19.679
is a difficult situation when you've got kids and stuff
1200
00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:24.239
not every family's 2.4 children and rosy and perfect so
1201
00:59:24.500 --> 00:59:26.079
it's good it's good to hear about it but yeah
1202
00:59:26.099 --> 00:59:27.599
she's brilliant denise we're a big fan.
1203
00:59:28.130 --> 00:59:28.679
There we go.
1204
00:59:28.760 --> 00:59:30.460
Thank you very much, Denise Welch. We'll see you on
1205
00:59:30.500 --> 00:59:33.860
Tuesday when... See you Tuesday. It'll be what it'll be,
1206
00:59:33.909 --> 00:59:34.159
won't it?
1207
00:59:34.369 --> 00:59:34.610
Bye.
1208
00:59:35.010 --> 00:59:35.329
Bye.
1209
00:59:35.349 --> 00:59:36.389
Bye.