Anna Bernacki: Welcome to the Parenting Different Podcast. My name is Anna Bernacki, and today we have Lauren House with us. I am so excited to have you. You are an adoptee and you have written one of my very favorite children's books for adoptees. Our family is a huge fan of your book. I cried the first time I read it. it was just a book that I needed when I was a little girl, and I just love that. You put so much heart into your story, and then you were just doing all of the things in your real life too. introduce yourself to us, talk a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Lauren Haas: Well, thank you for saying that. That means a lot. And to hear that my book has touched hearts is all I wanted. So that means the world. I'm Lauren and I'm a professional counselor associate in Oregon and licensed school counselor. I work at an elementary school. Then I'm also a doctoral student getting my doctorate in counselor education and supervision. I was adopted at birth, and I think, you know, one of those stories where it was kind of I was treated like a blank slate.
Anna Bernacki: Hm.
Lauren Haas: and because I was kind of adopted as a baby, I think there was an assumption that, she won't remember. And so that definitely kind of was the theme throughout my childhood. And my body definitely knew something happened and I was pretty anxious as a kiddo. I definitely leaned more on the internalizing my pain than externalizing my pain. I think that I kind of was very high achieving. I was an athlete and I got, you know, I kind of processed my feelings that way. And I went to a lot of counselors growing up that were not very trauma informed and did not kind of rush over the fact that I was adopted. And I think that that was kind of that second layer of harm. And that experience later on
Anna Bernacki: Yeah, sure.
Lauren Haas: in my life when I did have to face my adoption and kind of for the first time be like, wow, maybe this is something that has affected me, pushed me into the counseling world because I really want counselors to be more adoption competent and be able to hold space for different stories and complexities. And that's kind of the biggest piece of why I got into counseling and then now getting my doctorate in counseling is I really want to help do more research around adoption in counseling. There's really not any research. There's a huge gap. And so I love being able to use my story and my pain and my identity as an adoptee to hopefully help change that, you know, and not I don't think adoption's wrong or that that That aspect is like where I'm at. I'm more of like, I think that this can happen in a more ethical way. So that's about me
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely.
Lauren Haas: and my my soapbox.
Anna Bernacki: I love it. I think we're definitely on the same page there. there's definitely a more ethical way to do it. But I also think it's here
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: and is here to stay. And there are times when it is necessary. so to completely abolish it is not realistic. but
Lauren Haas: Totally.
Anna Bernacki: yeah, we're definitely on the same page with that. I think you have such an interesting perspective because you have the lived perspective and you also have that. therapeutic educational perspective as well. And that is so important for our kids, for parents to
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: listen to you, because you bring both lived and science together and really can speak to things that one or the other may not understand. how has your experience, I know you touched a little bit on it with talking about your Counseling growing up, how has your experience shaped the way you view education and the school systems and how adopted children navigate in the school systems?
Lauren Haas: Totally. And I think that kind of to touch off what you just said about bringing my lived experience with science. And I think the biggest thing that that helps do is reduce the shame and the stigma around adoptees experiences and the pain and,
Anna Bernacki: Hm, yes.
Lauren Haas: you know, all the shame that even adoptive parents are facing. And so I think the biggest thing with my approach to it all is just kind of making space for the adoptee story. And I think that when I think about how my lived experience has shaped my view of education, it's kind of that same thing. I think that I don't see schools as neutral. I think that I see school as a place that can either really kind of be a site of repair for a student and repair kind of their view of relationships, or can kind of deepen a child's kind of wounds. And so
Anna Bernacki: Totally.
Lauren Haas: I see it as kind of a primary environment where kids learn. Am I safe? Do I belong? Can I bring my whole story here? or are there's only s so many parts that adults can handle? And I think for me growing up, schools really reinforce that idea that I my adoption was not acknowledged and it was not noticed. I did the family tree assignments and I just kind of brushed over my big feelings that would come up and
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: when I went to fifth grade camp and I had to go home because my stomach hurt so bad because I was so anxious, right? No one said to me, hmm, maybe that's like your body, your nervous system
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: experiencing something because of your experience as a baby and an infant. And I think what was hard was when school maybe didn't acknowledge that that part of my identity, it kind of made me push it inward and be like, hmm, maybe I shouldn't acknowledge it. It was reinforcing those dominant narratives. And so I think when no one acknowledges that someone's story starts with loss, that that grief and that anger kind of goes underground. And I think we see that with adoptees, either it goes underground and they put it on themselves or they're putting it out in the world and they're trying to communicate. And I think that As a child, I really learned quickly that belonging at school was kind of conditional. And I think that, you know, I was I got a lot of validation from being high performing and helpful and not too much. And I think that my grief around my adoption and my confusion, it there was no space for it in that environment. And so no teacher ever said anything cruel. It it was never like overt, you know, but I think that It was it was more of the system that really only reflected one narrative about adoption, one narrative around family projects and Mother's Day projects and baby photo assignments. And so I learned how to kind of contort myself and how to participate in ways that wouldn't make anyone else uncomfortable, but at the cost of my own comfort. And so I think now as a school counselor, when I walk into buildings, I just have that awareness that there are kids. sitting with those internal realities that look like nothing that we might see on the surface. And there's also kids that are maybe really just trying to get through the day. Then there's also the kids that are expressing it through maybe other harmful behaviors. So I think that I really just look at behavior as communication now. And so when a kid's acting out or real like really struggling on to take a test. Like all those different things to me are communicating that there's some unmet need and there's something underneath. And I think with adoptees that that just goes like so much deeper than just that. So that kind of
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: I think shapes my view of education.
Anna Bernacki: One hundred percent. And I think so often I hear from parents, well, if we talk about it too much, then it'll become the whole thing. And it'll become
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: everything they think about, or are we making it into too big of a deal? My thing is not talk they're thinking it. Whether you
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: or whether you realize it or not, they're thinking it and acknowledging it and
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: having it's almost like having in a box that you can put it in. And it's not I'm
Lauren Haas: Totally.
Anna Bernacki: I'm too much. I don't know where I fit in. It changes it to my adoption caused this. So I can put it in a box and I can like
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: have a space for it and it's not just all inside. Yes.
Lauren Haas: It's not my fault. These pro yeah, these feelings aren't who I am. And I think kind of going off what you just said about talking about, I think we also have to keep in mind that a lot of kids don't have the language for what they went through. You know, when you're
Anna Bernacki: Exactly.
Lauren Haas: adopted before the age of five, it's called proverbal trauma. So it really means that it's kind of coded in your nervous system. It's not something that your body has the actual language for. And so most kids won't talk about it. Most kids don't have the language for it. But Maybe on their birthdays they're really struggling. Maybe, you know, when they go to family events, they're really like it showed up for me in different ways. And I think that what that takes as an adult who can name that for the child? Because that is so that takes the burden off the child of like, what's wrong with me?
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely.
Lauren Haas: Why am I feeling this way? because your conscious memory doesn't remember. And so I think what you see in classrooms and what you see at those big behaviors show up, it's their nervous system talking, right? It's not this like polished narrative that we, you know, adults might be able to have looking back on some traumatic experience. so yeah.
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely. And I think that kind of transitions into my next question was what are some behaviors that teachers can be looking for? And I think this goes for both parents and teachers. What can teachers be looking for? And what can parents be also looking for that they can say, my kid because the narrative often is that's a bad kid. Or the complete
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: opposite. And I think you and I fall into this category of we weren't the bad kids. We were the really good kids
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: who tried so hard. And the weight of that
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: is excruciating too. And so
Lauren Haas: Yes, and it just goes underground for sure.
Anna Bernacki: exactly because we're praised, we realize that being the compliant one, being the one who has the assignments in on time,
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: being the one who's an overachiever, that's how we get recognition. And so
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: it comes out in a different way. So Going off of that, what are some signs? Let's say like early elementary, let's say early elementary, they're young, they don't have the language yet to talk about this. What are we seeing in classrooms at this point?
Lauren Haas: Totally. I think that like I kinda just said, when a child is struggling with adoption related grief, I think especially at a young age, it really never shows up, hey, can we talk about this or I'm
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: feeling sad about this, right? It shows up in the body and I think that especially for kids adopted as infants, that's very much just coded in the nervous system. That loss happened before there was language and so Like you said, for some kids that looks obvious and it looks loud. And clinically we would call that like externalizing behaviors. So those are the ones who might really blow up at transitions or lose it when a parent is late for pickup or we call them elopers. They run from the classroom or they really just go from zero to sixty when they're excluded from something or a fr friend is mad at them, right? And so On paper, they kind of get described as that defiant, oppositional, dramatic kid. and to me, through my lens, right, as an adoptee, as a counselor, I see protest. I see them seeking connection, but they don't know how. They don't understand what's going on
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: in their body. Their nervous system is kind of overriding their thinking brain. And so their whole body is kind of yelling, I know. I know exactly what it feels like when someone leaves and I'm not going back there. I don't want to go back there. And that can be activated by the smallest thing. And so that's kind of those externalizing kiddos. And then there's the other end of the spectrum, which kind of what you said you and I definitely were is that internalizing kid who turns it inward. they become quiet or compliant, they're very high achieving. They can't mess up the perfectionism, right? They apologize constantly. They take on extra jobs in the classroom. And then maybe they get home and they fall apart. so it looked like the kids, maybe the kids' teachers trusted the kid you never have to worry about. But inside, right? My nervous system was constantly scanning. Am I okay? Am I gonna get abandoned? Am I gonna get rejected? Am I safe? Did I do enough to be kept like?
Anna Bernacki: Yes.
Lauren Haas: that kind of level of hypervigilance all the time. And so both of those, externalizing and internalizing, take up massive cognitive space when you think about the science of of how much
Anna Bernacki: Yes. Absolutely.
Lauren Haas: energy it takes to be on guard all day long like that. And so I think when I'm trying to figure out what this kid is going through, I'm listening for both those types of pain. And I'm kind of watching for maybe the kid who spaces out a lot, who maybe gets labeled as inattentive. I think we see a lot of kids disassociating, right? Or kind of some of those ADHD more behaviors where they can feel kind of like their body is slipping away because maybe being fully present doesn't feel safe. or that
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: kid who is really Always going this was me always going to the nurse's office with stomach aches, headaches, mysteriously worse on days where there was a field trip or a test that they didn't want to take, or around birthdays or anniversaries. and then there's, you know, other behaviors like kids who go rigid or silly or shut down when topics like babies or family trees or Mother's and Fathers Day comes up. Sometimes like they cope with humor. And so really all this goes to say is that when a kiddo with that proverbal trauma gets activated, their whole system is lit up. And so getting them to a regulated space is the key. But we first have to identify if they're dysregulated. And a lot of adoptees get really good at masking that dysregulation.
Anna Bernacki: Yeah. Yeah, they really do. Until it explodes. Until it's like too late. There
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm. Yes, until they can't do it anymore.
Anna Bernacki: Yeah. There's a quote I thought of I looked it up while you were talking. You what you were saying made me think of this. Anne Heffron, she's I don't know if you're familiar with her, she's an adoptee and she's done a lot of work in the adoption space. And she said, I have the feeling that when I was relinquished as an infant My brain told my body, if you relax, you will die. And my body took that
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: fear seriously and has been holding onto itself tightly ever since.
Lauren Haas: Yeah.
Anna Bernacki: And I think that is so true. And I wish that more people understood that. I
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: felt like when I read that, I felt that to my core. And
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: I wish more people understood that that I don't remember leaving the hospital with
Lauren Haas: Yeah.
Anna Bernacki: my birth mom. I don't remember that. I don't have any memory.
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: I only have memories of being in my adoptive home. But my body remembers. And while that yes
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it's primal. It's like a primal, a primal trigger when that hits. And I it kinda to me I liken it to feeling like if I felt like I was dying, that's what it would feel like when that's activated. Like to put it
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: and people are like, that's crazy. And I'm like, but I'm I'm serious.
Anna Bernacki: Right. And then we're not being dramatic when we say that.
Lauren Haas: Mm mm.
Anna Bernacki: And it's just a been a part of me ever since. So yeah, when our
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: parents leave or are late or don't
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: you know, don't show up to an event or they are busy, it can put us back into that panic state where it is life or death. Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or a friend rejects us. Yeah. Like it would show up socially totally too for me. Like if I didn't get included in the playground game. Like I think, and
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: I think that's like socially. And I think understanding that brings awareness to and and s and invites space for adoptee's experiences. So they don't need to be alone in it. So they don't need to
Anna Bernacki: Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Lauren Haas: push it down and be like, hmm, maybe I am dramatic. Maybe I am being too much. Maybe I am, you know, something's wrong with me. So maybe if I just try to be unrejectable, then like, then I won't have this feeling anymore. Because all of
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: these behaviors we see, the externalizing, the internalizing, it's kids trying to escape that pain. It's kids trying to
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely.
Lauren Haas: be out of that pain, right? Because it is so, so deeply encoded and painful. And so I think the more that adoptive parents can understand that, the more they can help build language for kiddos to help identify when they're getting to that spot, to help identify what that kid needs. Cause if I could have had that awareness at a young age, man, it would have saved me a lot of a lot of therapy later
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: on in life. And I think just help
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: give you those tools to deal with it, you know, because it's gonna happen.
Anna Bernacki: yeah.
Lauren Haas: I I've accepted that. I'm gonna have this reaction when things happen at certain times in my life, but how do I take care of myself when that does happen?
Anna Bernacki: Right. Well, and even still now, like when you said not being included, I have a really hard time. I'll see friends doing something on social media. They don't even live near me. They're in a different
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: state. And I'm like, but I wasn't included. And it's just that natural response. And then I have to process that. Now I can I have the language, right? So I can go,
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: okay, this is a reaction. Logic says that, you know, and this is why. And I can
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah.
Anna Bernacki: put it in that box.
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: Okay, this is why, and then I can move on and I can calm my nervous system. But if you don't have the language for it and you can't do that, you're just left panicking and feeling
Lauren Haas: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anna Bernacki: left out or like you're lost and where do you belong? And
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: it's very, very unsettling. And I think so
Lauren Haas: So unsettling.
Anna Bernacki: much more than we even realize because our kids
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: aren't saying, I feel left out. They're not right.
Lauren Haas: They don't have the language. They don't know. They don't know that that's what it is. I remember
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: like it the click for me one time when I was I was, you know, in college in therapy and being like, wait, wow, maybe the reason I went home from fifth grade camp was because of that. Maybe and you know, once you start to see it, it's like, but the fact that my whole life I just shamed myself for that and that other people around me kind of also reinforce that. that's not normal reactions to things, that's not normal behavior, you know, you just it further increases that isolation and that loneliness. And I think that when we look at outcomes of adoptees and we see, you know, how much more re represented in outpatient treatment centers they are and the suicide rates, you know, I think that it's it's an isolation thing. It's a it's the they we aren't giving them tools. We ain't we aren't giving them witnesses to their experience. We aren't giving them mirrors of their experience, you know, and then they walk into a world in a society where, you're so lucky. that's so cool. Wow, your parents did such an amazing thing. You know, it's never about the adoptee. It's never centering their experience.
Anna Bernacki: And then it's like, well, then why do I feel this way? Why do
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: I feel like this if it's still, yeah. Yeah, 100%.
Lauren Haas: Yeah, if I should just be grateful.
Anna Bernacki: It's very, very, it's very complex and it's so hard to navigate. So I think it's so important as parents and teachers and educators that you're able to do that for them
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: and pinpoint those things so that you can take that pressure off.
Lauren Haas: Yeah.
Anna Bernacki: And it doesn't become why am I weird? Why am I different? Why am I the odd one? My friends
Lauren Haas: In the shame. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: can move through life with little to no struggles, but I'm having this huge reaction to something, yeah. Yes, and it really is
Lauren Haas: Massive. Just absolutely paralyzing. Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: paralyzing. It's so, it's so complex, and I
Lauren Haas: And it reinforces that core wound of like, I'm rejected I'm not enough.
Anna Bernacki: I don't belong. Yeah.
Lauren Haas: I something's wrong with me. This like kind of fatal flaw, right? I think that so much of that core messaging for adoptees and that core wound in our nervous system is like they had zero control when that happened, right? That like shame is already there. And so all of these other layers on top of it through the developmental lifespan. Just add to it. When really
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: it's no one's and I think that's the thing is adopt if my parents, my adoptive parents knew, they never would have said the things they said. They never would have navigated the way they did, but they just didn't know. They didn't have the education. And so I think that
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: when adoptive parents can kind of put their ego and their stuff aside, it allows space for them to show up for their adoptee and actually be curious. and and figure out how can I I can't take their pain away. I can't change the fact that they're gonna deal with grief for the rest of their life, but I can help them process this in a way where they're not alone. They don't think it's something's wrong with them. They're not internalizing all these things about themselves, right? Like that is that's all we can ask, right?
Anna Bernacki: There are so many things and as a parent too, I look at and I want to fix everything for my children. I
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: don't want them to struggle. I don't want them to hurt and have pain. But there's so many things in adoption that just are. They just are. We can't change
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: that there's going to be grief. There will be. We can't
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: change that there's going to be this struggle of where do I belong. We can't change a lot of those things. And that doesn't make it bad. It just makes it what it is.
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: And so as parents, as educators, as teachers, if you can come alongside that child
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: and just let them be with them, give them language, help them process through that, that is makes all the difference in the world. Because
Lauren Haas: Totally.
Anna Bernacki: you can't fix it, but you can sit with them in it and so they're not alone
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: in it.
Lauren Haas: Exactly. And that that shows them that I'm not crazy. I'm not imagining imagining this pain, right? Because I think that whether
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: or not others want to admit it, the adoptee's experiencing it. Their nervous system isn't gonna let it go. Like they are gonna continually have those triggers.
Anna Bernacki: so you mentioned earlier about the Family Tree Project and Mother's Day, Father's
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: Day. Those are always complex. And they're complex for a lot of people. We're not just adoptees. The there are many,
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: many situations that those are really tricky with. Or like the baby pictures, right?
Lauren Haas: Yes, absolutely.
Anna Bernacki: Like I have kids who were adopted from foster care at an older age. I don't have baby pictures for them.
Lauren Haas: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: And I hate that, but it's the reality. And so
Lauren Haas: Mm. Totally.
Anna Bernacki: how can parents advocate for that? Because we don't want to be that parent that's like, I my kid's not
Lauren Haas: Totally.
Anna Bernacki: gonna participate that in this. You don't wanna be that parent, but also you don't want your child to sit there and struggle when you don't have that information. So, what how do we advocate in a way that helps a school understand? how painful these things can be without being the parent that's just like, my kid's too sensitive for that.
Lauren Haas: Totally. Yeah, I feel like this question's two part. First, I want to address the family tree, baby photo, that. And even as an adult, I sat in my master's program of counseling and we had to do a genogram, which is like a big kid family tree,
Anna Bernacki: Mm.
Lauren Haas: and I had that same pit in my stomach, right? And so it's so real. Even as an adult after years of therapy, I still got that pit, right? And I think that when we ask, right, for a student have baby photos. We assume they exist and we assume that they're accessible, right? And I think that that is such a loaded question for any adoptee, anyone who's been in any sort of situation like that, because a lot of us don't have access to accurate information about my ancestry, about my families. and that just brings up grief. And I don't think that teachers You know, they're not bad or cruel for planning these activities. And, you know, most of us were trained in a system that is very centers a very narrow version of what a family looks like. But
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely.
Lauren Haas: once you know better, you can't really unknow it. And so I think that schools can just be a space where, you know, we don't have to delete all talk. A family in tradition from classrooms, but we do have to redesign it so that maybe it looks like, you know, instead of drawing your mom and dad, draw a grown-up who takes care of you or that you look up to, draw different things about home that make you feel good, kind of turning maybe
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: a family tree. I just like to re-just center different words. So circle of care or people who have shaped me. I think that. you know, where kids can include teachers, siblings, coaches, anyone important to them. So offering multiple options for heritage projects, maybe culture you were born into, that gives adoptees, you know, especially transracial adoptees who are navigating even deeper, deeper levels of harm. I think being explicit with that and explaining that also if you don't know, that's okay. and just offering an easy alternative to things and also I think teachers can easily build you know quiet opt-out paths and I think underneath curriculum changing really is the mindset change of like assuming that from the start that there are kids in your room whose family stories include loss, include secrecy, include
Anna Bernacki: Yes.
Lauren Haas: complexity and trauma, even if they look fine. Even if one adult had sat next to me in kindergarten and said, hey, families can look a lot of different ways, that would have changed the game. So
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: I think that what I would want my teacher to know of my kid is that these projects aren't neutral and they can be deeply connecting or deeply isolating, depending on how you design them. And I think when I think about that parent, you know, that's a parent who's maybe you know, very disrespectful or relentless or emotional or unwilling to let things go. And I think honestly, if some of that energy is necessary at times when you're advocating for your child, but often I think educators want to do their best. And if you just kind of are open with your teacher and just, hey, this is something that I want you to be aware of. If you guys do any heritage family tree projects, even printing out a list of like Two alternative ways to word it, ways to address it with that student, that a teacher should hopefully be able to accommodate that, right? And so
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: also kind of advocating for the adoptee can be tricky because you're kind of speaking on behalf of that proverbal trauma. And so things maybe that
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: the child's body remembers, but they can't articulate. And so They might just say, I hate school, or I don't want to do that project. Or maybe a kid brings them cupcakes on their birthday and they start crying, right? And so I think while you're the one seeing the full pattern, this you know, the stomach aches, the meltdowns, the teacher may have not connected those dots. And so it can look intense simply just because you understand. the depth and the i you know the iceberg of like what's underneath and the teacher
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: may not. So kind of helping the teacher see where that's all coming from. And you can do that in a way that is completely respectful of the teacher and teachers care, right? I respect teachers so much. And so I think kind of coming at it with like a team mindset of this might help explain, you know, our child's behavior, they have a history of early separation. You know, a lot of teachers are informed in trauma, informed care. And so they should understand, hopefully, and
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: always going to your school counselor. If you have a school counselor, school counselors are trained in hopefully attachment trauma and all those things. And so
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: just getting someone in your kids' corner that they can talk to, I think is a great start
Anna Bernacki: Yeah, a hundred percent.
Lauren Haas: as well.
Anna Bernacki: Yeah. What if you have a teacher? And I know this is a one-off, right? Like, but unfortunately we've experienced it. And I've gone to the teacher and said, Hey, this behavior is because of adoption, because of trauma. This is how you have to handle it. Like I I know my kid, right? This is how you have to handle it. This is how an immediate this is in a special ed classroom. I don't have to do that. I'm not asking you for this isn't
Lauren Haas: Yeah, that is
Anna Bernacki: special ed. I'm asking, like honestly, kindness would have gone a long way. but
Lauren Haas: Right.
Anna Bernacki: what like just lead with kindness when you give direct
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: instructions? The natural reaction is no. So you kind
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: of have to word things a little different. And
Lauren Haas: Yes.
Anna Bernacki: the response was nope. And
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: my child was ostracized from the classroom. And so
Lauren Haas: Hm.
Anna Bernacki: it's just and I understand that that's an extreme situation. But it happens. Yeah,
Lauren Haas: But also it's more common than you think. Yeah.
Anna Bernacki: it does happen. And so how
Lauren Haas: Yeah.
Anna Bernacki: would like I had the privilege of working from home and being able to homeschool that year?
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: Never doing that again. But I was able to, I was able to I know
Lauren Haas: I know I'm like, God bless you. That's
Anna Bernacki: fix the situation because of that. But not all parents can or should or that's good for their relationship.
Lauren Haas: Yeah. Mm-mm. And it it reinforces that that see my little advocate in me is coming up and yelling right now because that I see so many burnt out teachers. I think the education system,
Anna Bernacki: Okay.
Lauren Haas: I mean, that would be a whole nother conversation of burnt
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: out teachers. And I think that adoption's tricky. People have some deeply ingrained beliefs around adoption. And I've had a Supervisor. Say to me before, why is that kid acting out? They were adopted as a child. Like that shouldn't affect them. From a fully trained counselor. Yeah. I'm like, okay, let me take a couple
Anna Bernacki: You're like, you talked to the wrong person on that one.
Lauren Haas: deep breaths before I respond to that. but I think that there are a lot of misconceptions and I think some cognitive dissonance when it comes to adoption-specific trauma. Like, we could be like, the mother of that child died at birth. And maybe then a teacher would be like, treat that differently. I think that adoption oftentimes
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: gets treated very differently. And so I think
Anna Bernacki: yeah.
Lauren Haas: when it comes to dealing with that teacher, if the fact that you had to go in homeschool is amazing that you had the capacity to do that. But like you said, there's a lot of Parents that don't have access to that and that shouldn't have to homeschool their teacher or homeschool their teacher. I mean, maybe this teacher does need homeschooling, homeschool their child.
Anna Bernacki: Might need to do that too.
Lauren Haas: But taking that to admin, taking that to the principal, taking that to the school counselor, taking it to people in the building that can hold that teacher accountable, because at the end of the day, that's really harmful that that teacher is reinforcing those narratives. and I think too, especially if an adoptive child has some sort of clinical diagnosis, they can get a 504 and they can get accommodations for what they need. And so advocating for that route, if that's something that your student needs. I think if you tried the nice cities route and that doesn't work, going, there's there's legal protections for students. And so understanding your rights as a parent. And understanding that you don't need to just end the route there, that you can take that to the admin, to the school counselor, to the vice principal. And if that doesn't work, taking to the I'm gonna ruffle some feathers, taking it to the district. Like you
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: if you have the energy for that and the capacity for that, that is something you're allowed to do. And that doesn't make you that parent, right? Parents don't owe schools, you a trauma memoir of their kids' experience, but they can They can share a grounded, honest snapshot that can like kind of give the teacher just enough story so that your child doesn't spend nine months being misread and labeled.
Anna Bernacki: Exactly, yeah.
Lauren Haas: and I think that for adoptees, I encourage parents to name adoption explicitly and early instead of hoping the teacher will somehow intuit that it matters. saying something like, Our child is adopted.
Anna Bernacki: Yeah, you're not helping anyone.
Lauren Haas: Yeah. And that, you know. They can also share how public that information is if they're comfortable sh sharing it with classmates, or please don't share that with the class. I think I just want teachers to understand that your child has already lived through a significant loss, right? And that that proverbal separation is living in their body. And so it will show up, and you don't have to use all the jargon, but you can kind of just share some examples and If they respond to that with resistance or denial or whatever, that reflects something in them. That reflects some internalized dominant narrative or internalized something or other in them. And that's not your
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: responsibility to fix, right? And so also knowing that teachers are held to standards, and so understanding that if they can't accept and hold space for that, then taking other alternative routes to get your child's needs met is completely okay and I'm giving you full permission to
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: do so.
Anna Bernacki: Yeah. And I think what people also don't understand is like my son for the rest of the year had this narrative of I am a bad boy. I'm a bad
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: boy. I'm a bad child. And we just over and over reinforce that no, you're not. So then he went to camp this summer and first time away from me since that school
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: experience going to camp. And we did like the full summer. It's just day camp. But like every day, kind of prepping for school, also so I can work. but he goes to camp every day and he's loved it. He's thriving, he loves it. We're in the car, he is six years old, like fresh six. He just turned six in May.
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: And he goes, Mom, I just needed to be with people who understand me.
Lauren Haas: Throw drop the pen, throw yeah, that's that's it. That's it. He knew, yeah. This is what belonging feels like, yeah. That didn't
Anna Bernacki: My heart broke into million pieces. At six years old, he was able to articulate and realize yes that
Lauren Haas: feel like belonging, this is what belonging feels like.
Anna Bernacki: Yes, I just needed people who understand me. And
Lauren Haas: Yes.
Anna Bernacki: you can be anybody can be that person. It doesn't take a special ed degree. It doesn't take
Lauren Haas: Mm. Yeah. He didn't ask to fix it. Yeah. No.
Anna Bernacki: a anybody can be that person if they try hard enough.
Lauren Haas: No, exactly. Yes. Exa that is such a beautiful my heart, like thinking of that realization is so beautiful at that age too, because that means that his nerve system and you've helped him identify these are the kinds of feelings and people that are safe. And these are the kinds of people where maybe your experience isn't gonna be held right. And helping him differentiate that age, what those two things feel like, you know, so he can grow up. and have agency over who he shares his story with in spaces where he feels like he can be vulnerable and authentic without that being weaponized right against him. that's beautiful.
Anna Bernacki: Right. Right. I know. I just cried. Cause I'm sitting there going,
Lauren Haas: Yes.
Anna Bernacki: it didn't take that much. Like camp, he's got
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: college students who I don't know what they're in school for, but they're college students that are
Lauren Haas: Yeah.
Anna Bernacki: helping him in camp. We're not talking a seasoned teacher or they
Lauren Haas: Mm mm.
Anna Bernacki: just met him where he was. And
Lauren Haas: Yes, met him where he was.
Anna Bernacki: And that's what it takes. And it doesn't take a big extravagant. It can be, hey,
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: I recognize that this child's nervous system is on fire right now. So
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: come here. You seem a little overwhelmed. Let's just take a minute. And then they can go back. It doesn't have to be this huge, complicated thing. It's just about letting them feel seen and giving them space for their emotions, calm down. And then reintegrate into whatever
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: the activity is.
Lauren Haas: Exactly. Having their story and their pain and their be witnessed without shaming them, I think is the key because when we do that, we send them the message that what you're going through isn't your fault. It's normal and you're not too much, right? And I will sit with you through
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: that.
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely. Yes. So as we close up here, I have two final questions for you. One is for teachers and school staff. If you could sit down with every teacher in America and give them some sort of information about working with adoptees, what would you tell them?
Lauren Haas: Ooh, that's a good question. I think if I I would definitely start by saying thank you. I think, you know, I work in schools. I see how overworked and under-resourced you are. I see how big your hearts are as well. I think educators have the biggest hearts, but I think most of most teachers with an asterisk got into this because they care about kids and you're doing that caring inside a system that is. That don't often care for you back. And so none of what I'm about to say, I think, is about blame. I think it's about honoring how much power you have in shaping kids' relational experiences and their view of themselves, right? And so I think I would tell them that some kids in your classroom have already survived the biggest rupture of their life before they could even talk. And I think for adoptees, especially those, you know, adopted younger on, their first major experience. in the world was separation from a person whose body kept them alive and so their nervous system holds that story even if they're they don't have the language for it. And so you're not responsible for healing that in any way. but you are a major character in the chapters that come after that in their life and you can help decide whether school is a place that kind of keeps reopening that wound or a place that helps kind of scar over it in healthier ways. And the way you read their behavior is a huge part of that. You'll see this early rupture show up in, you know, either that internalizing or that externalizing way. And so I think that what I'm asking is, you know, not labeling their behavior, but just kind of l helping them learn that they are Not what happened to them, right? There's n nothing wrong with them, kind of shifting from what's wrong with you to what happened to you and what doesn't feel safe for you right now. I think doing that doesn't mean that you let go of boundaries or academics, but you can kind of holding those things and remembering that there's a story in a nervous system that is trying to communicate. and it might
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: sound like this behavior is not okay, but I'm also not going to. Anywhere, right? And so
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: figuring out what kind of kid you're dealing with and holding space for all parts of them in their story. And I think that yeah, you might be the first adult in a child's life who ever shows them that they don't have to be easy or grateful or impressive. And that is the world-changing work, even if it never shows up academically.
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Lauren Haas: Yeah, so that's what I would say to teachers.
Anna Bernacki: Yeah. I think some teachers don't underst they think of it in academics and they don't understand the impact,
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: the lifelong impact that they can have on a child for sure.
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm. And we can't expect a kid to show up academically if their body is in that fight or flight, flea r like trauma response state, you know? So most educators
Anna Bernacki: Also that, yes.
Lauren Haas: are trauma informed to understand that. And also understanding that dysregulation can they can mask it really well, adoptees can. And so just being curious.
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely. And then for the adaptive parent, they're
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: listening, the no school's coming, they're getting really anxious because what are we gonna do? How are they going to act when they go into school? What do you want them to know? What do you want parents to know about leaving their child who's already dysregulated and struggling, leaving their child at school?
Lauren Haas: Yes. That dread that you feel as school gets closer isn't dramatic. I think that it's what happens when you love a kid whose nervous system has already been through more than most adults. And so you've
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: watched often how systems maybe don't get it. And so part of that knot in your stomach is your child's story kind of living in your body too. And so what I want you to know is that it's not your job to fix your child's grief or art outsmart, you know, every Hard moment, but you can't make adoption not hurt. You know, there's no version of this where they move through life untouched by loss. But what you can do, and what is profoundly healing for that adoptee, is is to see them, to really see them, you know, and to keep making room for their story and their feelings in whatever messy sideways form that those come and when they melt down after a family project, when they get weirdly activated about a small friendship thing, or they keep asking if you're mad at them, or, you know, whatever way that is sitting with them in it, naming it. You know, you don't have to have the perfect intervention, but making space for it. Attachment is not glamorous, but it's really powerful. I think that it's you noticing that there I'm fine. you know, is is tight and brittle and saying, I believe you're trying to be fine, but I also see that maybe your body looks like it's not fine. You know, it's it it's on you to kind of recognize that pattern in your kiddo and see how that shows up and helping them process that because that kind of steady, non shaming attention tells their nervous system that I'm not crazy and I'm not alone in this. And so you also don't have to protect them from their grief. For it to be a good year. In fact, trying to keep them from that ever feeling that tends to make them feel more alone. and what helps them is giving them the tools and the space to move through that grief in ways that aren't isolating right. That might look like predictable after school ritual. It might be like journaling on hard days, it might be having a little box where you put in, you know, worries or questions or Having a space, a ritual for that grief, for that kind of a place for it, right? You know, when we think about grief and we think about different forms of grief in life. When someone dies, we have a funeral and we go and we talk about it and we can honor that person. But I think with adoption, a lot of time it's this like very ambiguous, disenfranchised showing up everywhere, grief. And so giving your kids
Anna Bernacki: Mm. Yeah.
Lauren Haas: somewhere tangible to put it. Can be really helpful. And I think on the school side, right, you're allowed to tell the truth. You don't have to sanitize their story to make it more convenient or comfortable for adults. and know that it you can advocate for your kid and that by doing that you're gonna help them more than you know. And so just really kind of figuring out who your people are, who what kids. what or what teachers in the building your kid trusts in and helping cultivate those relationships can really help. but yeah, I think my hope is that you know that not everything will be magically smoothed over, but you'll feel less alone and seeing your child, attuning to your child, making space for them, that is doing the work. And that even on days when it the school gets it wrong, the fact that they can come home to that one adult who is willing to advocate for them,
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: to hold space for their story, is so healing.
Anna Bernacki: Yes, for sure. Well, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate you being here and sharing your wisdom with us. I feel this has been so powerful and I really hope that parents can take this and really feel empowered as they go into this next school year. And then for educators too, like you can just hold space. It's not this big complicated thing to walk alongside adoptees. We just need someone to hold space. And so I hope that that is encouraging for them as well. So I really appreciate you being with me today.
Lauren Haas: You know, this is a wonderful conversation. These are the kinds that really light my heart up and yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Lauren Haas: Well, thank you for saying that. That means a lot. And to hear that my book has touched hearts is all I wanted. So that means the world. I'm Lauren and I'm a professional counselor associate in Oregon and licensed school counselor. I work at an elementary school. Then I'm also a doctoral student getting my doctorate in counselor education and supervision. I was adopted at birth, and I think, you know, one of those stories where it was kind of I was treated like a blank slate.
Anna Bernacki: Hm.
Lauren Haas: and because I was kind of adopted as a baby, I think there was an assumption that, she won't remember. And so that definitely kind of was the theme throughout my childhood. And my body definitely knew something happened and I was pretty anxious as a kiddo. I definitely leaned more on the internalizing my pain than externalizing my pain. I think that I kind of was very high achieving. I was an athlete and I got, you know, I kind of processed my feelings that way. And I went to a lot of counselors growing up that were not very trauma informed and did not kind of rush over the fact that I was adopted. And I think that that was kind of that second layer of harm. And that experience later on
Anna Bernacki: Yeah, sure.
Lauren Haas: in my life when I did have to face my adoption and kind of for the first time be like, wow, maybe this is something that has affected me, pushed me into the counseling world because I really want counselors to be more adoption competent and be able to hold space for different stories and complexities. And that's kind of the biggest piece of why I got into counseling and then now getting my doctorate in counseling is I really want to help do more research around adoption in counseling. There's really not any research. There's a huge gap. And so I love being able to use my story and my pain and my identity as an adoptee to hopefully help change that, you know, and not I don't think adoption's wrong or that that That aspect is like where I'm at. I'm more of like, I think that this can happen in a more ethical way. So that's about me
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely.
Lauren Haas: and my my soapbox.
Anna Bernacki: I love it. I think we're definitely on the same page there. there's definitely a more ethical way to do it. But I also think it's here
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: and is here to stay. And there are times when it is necessary. so to completely abolish it is not realistic. but
Lauren Haas: Totally.
Anna Bernacki: yeah, we're definitely on the same page with that. I think you have such an interesting perspective because you have the lived perspective and you also have that. therapeutic educational perspective as well. And that is so important for our kids, for parents to
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: listen to you, because you bring both lived and science together and really can speak to things that one or the other may not understand. how has your experience, I know you touched a little bit on it with talking about your Counseling growing up, how has your experience shaped the way you view education and the school systems and how adopted children navigate in the school systems?
Lauren Haas: Totally. And I think that kind of to touch off what you just said about bringing my lived experience with science. And I think the biggest thing that that helps do is reduce the shame and the stigma around adoptees experiences and the pain and,
Anna Bernacki: Hm, yes.
Lauren Haas: you know, all the shame that even adoptive parents are facing. And so I think the biggest thing with my approach to it all is just kind of making space for the adoptee story. And I think that when I think about how my lived experience has shaped my view of education, it's kind of that same thing. I think that I don't see schools as neutral. I think that I see school as a place that can either really kind of be a site of repair for a student and repair kind of their view of relationships, or can kind of deepen a child's kind of wounds. And so
Anna Bernacki: Totally.
Lauren Haas: I see it as kind of a primary environment where kids learn. Am I safe? Do I belong? Can I bring my whole story here? or are there's only s so many parts that adults can handle? And I think for me growing up, schools really reinforce that idea that I my adoption was not acknowledged and it was not noticed. I did the family tree assignments and I just kind of brushed over my big feelings that would come up and
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: when I went to fifth grade camp and I had to go home because my stomach hurt so bad because I was so anxious, right? No one said to me, hmm, maybe that's like your body, your nervous system
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: experiencing something because of your experience as a baby and an infant. And I think what was hard was when school maybe didn't acknowledge that that part of my identity, it kind of made me push it inward and be like, hmm, maybe I shouldn't acknowledge it. It was reinforcing those dominant narratives. And so I think when no one acknowledges that someone's story starts with loss, that that grief and that anger kind of goes underground. And I think we see that with adoptees, either it goes underground and they put it on themselves or they're putting it out in the world and they're trying to communicate. And I think that As a child, I really learned quickly that belonging at school was kind of conditional. And I think that, you know, I was I got a lot of validation from being high performing and helpful and not too much. And I think that my grief around my adoption and my confusion, it there was no space for it in that environment. And so no teacher ever said anything cruel. It it was never like overt, you know, but I think that It was it was more of the system that really only reflected one narrative about adoption, one narrative around family projects and Mother's Day projects and baby photo assignments. And so I learned how to kind of contort myself and how to participate in ways that wouldn't make anyone else uncomfortable, but at the cost of my own comfort. And so I think now as a school counselor, when I walk into buildings, I just have that awareness that there are kids. sitting with those internal realities that look like nothing that we might see on the surface. And there's also kids that are maybe really just trying to get through the day. Then there's also the kids that are expressing it through maybe other harmful behaviors. So I think that I really just look at behavior as communication now. And so when a kid's acting out or real like really struggling on to take a test. Like all those different things to me are communicating that there's some unmet need and there's something underneath. And I think with adoptees that that just goes like so much deeper than just that. So that kind of
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: I think shapes my view of education.
Anna Bernacki: One hundred percent. And I think so often I hear from parents, well, if we talk about it too much, then it'll become the whole thing. And it'll become
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: everything they think about, or are we making it into too big of a deal? My thing is not talk they're thinking it. Whether you
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: or whether you realize it or not, they're thinking it and acknowledging it and
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: having it's almost like having in a box that you can put it in. And it's not I'm
Lauren Haas: Totally.
Anna Bernacki: I'm too much. I don't know where I fit in. It changes it to my adoption caused this. So I can put it in a box and I can like
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: have a space for it and it's not just all inside. Yes.
Lauren Haas: It's not my fault. These pro yeah, these feelings aren't who I am. And I think kind of going off what you just said about talking about, I think we also have to keep in mind that a lot of kids don't have the language for what they went through. You know, when you're
Anna Bernacki: Exactly.
Lauren Haas: adopted before the age of five, it's called proverbal trauma. So it really means that it's kind of coded in your nervous system. It's not something that your body has the actual language for. And so most kids won't talk about it. Most kids don't have the language for it. But Maybe on their birthdays they're really struggling. Maybe, you know, when they go to family events, they're really like it showed up for me in different ways. And I think that what that takes as an adult who can name that for the child? Because that is so that takes the burden off the child of like, what's wrong with me?
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely.
Lauren Haas: Why am I feeling this way? because your conscious memory doesn't remember. And so I think what you see in classrooms and what you see at those big behaviors show up, it's their nervous system talking, right? It's not this like polished narrative that we, you know, adults might be able to have looking back on some traumatic experience. so yeah.
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely. And I think that kind of transitions into my next question was what are some behaviors that teachers can be looking for? And I think this goes for both parents and teachers. What can teachers be looking for? And what can parents be also looking for that they can say, my kid because the narrative often is that's a bad kid. Or the complete
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: opposite. And I think you and I fall into this category of we weren't the bad kids. We were the really good kids
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: who tried so hard. And the weight of that
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: is excruciating too. And so
Lauren Haas: Yes, and it just goes underground for sure.
Anna Bernacki: exactly because we're praised, we realize that being the compliant one, being the one who has the assignments in on time,
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: being the one who's an overachiever, that's how we get recognition. And so
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: it comes out in a different way. So Going off of that, what are some signs? Let's say like early elementary, let's say early elementary, they're young, they don't have the language yet to talk about this. What are we seeing in classrooms at this point?
Lauren Haas: Totally. I think that like I kinda just said, when a child is struggling with adoption related grief, I think especially at a young age, it really never shows up, hey, can we talk about this or I'm
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: feeling sad about this, right? It shows up in the body and I think that especially for kids adopted as infants, that's very much just coded in the nervous system. That loss happened before there was language and so Like you said, for some kids that looks obvious and it looks loud. And clinically we would call that like externalizing behaviors. So those are the ones who might really blow up at transitions or lose it when a parent is late for pickup or we call them elopers. They run from the classroom or they really just go from zero to sixty when they're excluded from something or a fr friend is mad at them, right? And so On paper, they kind of get described as that defiant, oppositional, dramatic kid. and to me, through my lens, right, as an adoptee, as a counselor, I see protest. I see them seeking connection, but they don't know how. They don't understand what's going on
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: in their body. Their nervous system is kind of overriding their thinking brain. And so their whole body is kind of yelling, I know. I know exactly what it feels like when someone leaves and I'm not going back there. I don't want to go back there. And that can be activated by the smallest thing. And so that's kind of those externalizing kiddos. And then there's the other end of the spectrum, which kind of what you said you and I definitely were is that internalizing kid who turns it inward. they become quiet or compliant, they're very high achieving. They can't mess up the perfectionism, right? They apologize constantly. They take on extra jobs in the classroom. And then maybe they get home and they fall apart. so it looked like the kids, maybe the kids' teachers trusted the kid you never have to worry about. But inside, right? My nervous system was constantly scanning. Am I okay? Am I gonna get abandoned? Am I gonna get rejected? Am I safe? Did I do enough to be kept like?
Anna Bernacki: Yes.
Lauren Haas: that kind of level of hypervigilance all the time. And so both of those, externalizing and internalizing, take up massive cognitive space when you think about the science of of how much
Anna Bernacki: Yes. Absolutely.
Lauren Haas: energy it takes to be on guard all day long like that. And so I think when I'm trying to figure out what this kid is going through, I'm listening for both those types of pain. And I'm kind of watching for maybe the kid who spaces out a lot, who maybe gets labeled as inattentive. I think we see a lot of kids disassociating, right? Or kind of some of those ADHD more behaviors where they can feel kind of like their body is slipping away because maybe being fully present doesn't feel safe. or that
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: kid who is really Always going this was me always going to the nurse's office with stomach aches, headaches, mysteriously worse on days where there was a field trip or a test that they didn't want to take, or around birthdays or anniversaries. and then there's, you know, other behaviors like kids who go rigid or silly or shut down when topics like babies or family trees or Mother's and Fathers Day comes up. Sometimes like they cope with humor. And so really all this goes to say is that when a kiddo with that proverbal trauma gets activated, their whole system is lit up. And so getting them to a regulated space is the key. But we first have to identify if they're dysregulated. And a lot of adoptees get really good at masking that dysregulation.
Anna Bernacki: Yeah. Yeah, they really do. Until it explodes. Until it's like too late. There
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm. Yes, until they can't do it anymore.
Anna Bernacki: Yeah. There's a quote I thought of I looked it up while you were talking. You what you were saying made me think of this. Anne Heffron, she's I don't know if you're familiar with her, she's an adoptee and she's done a lot of work in the adoption space. And she said, I have the feeling that when I was relinquished as an infant My brain told my body, if you relax, you will die. And my body took that
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: fear seriously and has been holding onto itself tightly ever since.
Lauren Haas: Yeah.
Anna Bernacki: And I think that is so true. And I wish that more people understood that. I
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: felt like when I read that, I felt that to my core. And
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: I wish more people understood that that I don't remember leaving the hospital with
Lauren Haas: Yeah.
Anna Bernacki: my birth mom. I don't remember that. I don't have any memory.
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: I only have memories of being in my adoptive home. But my body remembers. And while that yes
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it's primal. It's like a primal, a primal trigger when that hits. And I it kinda to me I liken it to feeling like if I felt like I was dying, that's what it would feel like when that's activated. Like to put it
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: and people are like, that's crazy. And I'm like, but I'm I'm serious.
Anna Bernacki: Right. And then we're not being dramatic when we say that.
Lauren Haas: Mm mm.
Anna Bernacki: And it's just a been a part of me ever since. So yeah, when our
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: parents leave or are late or don't
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: you know, don't show up to an event or they are busy, it can put us back into that panic state where it is life or death. Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or a friend rejects us. Yeah. Like it would show up socially totally too for me. Like if I didn't get included in the playground game. Like I think, and
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: I think that's like socially. And I think understanding that brings awareness to and and s and invites space for adoptee's experiences. So they don't need to be alone in it. So they don't need to
Anna Bernacki: Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Lauren Haas: push it down and be like, hmm, maybe I am dramatic. Maybe I am being too much. Maybe I am, you know, something's wrong with me. So maybe if I just try to be unrejectable, then like, then I won't have this feeling anymore. Because all of
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: these behaviors we see, the externalizing, the internalizing, it's kids trying to escape that pain. It's kids trying to
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely.
Lauren Haas: be out of that pain, right? Because it is so, so deeply encoded and painful. And so I think the more that adoptive parents can understand that, the more they can help build language for kiddos to help identify when they're getting to that spot, to help identify what that kid needs. Cause if I could have had that awareness at a young age, man, it would have saved me a lot of a lot of therapy later
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: on in life. And I think just help
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: give you those tools to deal with it, you know, because it's gonna happen.
Anna Bernacki: yeah.
Lauren Haas: I I've accepted that. I'm gonna have this reaction when things happen at certain times in my life, but how do I take care of myself when that does happen?
Anna Bernacki: Right. Well, and even still now, like when you said not being included, I have a really hard time. I'll see friends doing something on social media. They don't even live near me. They're in a different
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: state. And I'm like, but I wasn't included. And it's just that natural response. And then I have to process that. Now I can I have the language, right? So I can go,
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: okay, this is a reaction. Logic says that, you know, and this is why. And I can
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah.
Anna Bernacki: put it in that box.
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: Okay, this is why, and then I can move on and I can calm my nervous system. But if you don't have the language for it and you can't do that, you're just left panicking and feeling
Lauren Haas: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anna Bernacki: left out or like you're lost and where do you belong? And
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: it's very, very unsettling. And I think so
Lauren Haas: So unsettling.
Anna Bernacki: much more than we even realize because our kids
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: aren't saying, I feel left out. They're not right.
Lauren Haas: They don't have the language. They don't know. They don't know that that's what it is. I remember
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: like it the click for me one time when I was I was, you know, in college in therapy and being like, wait, wow, maybe the reason I went home from fifth grade camp was because of that. Maybe and you know, once you start to see it, it's like, but the fact that my whole life I just shamed myself for that and that other people around me kind of also reinforce that. that's not normal reactions to things, that's not normal behavior, you know, you just it further increases that isolation and that loneliness. And I think that when we look at outcomes of adoptees and we see, you know, how much more re represented in outpatient treatment centers they are and the suicide rates, you know, I think that it's it's an isolation thing. It's a it's the they we aren't giving them tools. We ain't we aren't giving them witnesses to their experience. We aren't giving them mirrors of their experience, you know, and then they walk into a world in a society where, you're so lucky. that's so cool. Wow, your parents did such an amazing thing. You know, it's never about the adoptee. It's never centering their experience.
Anna Bernacki: And then it's like, well, then why do I feel this way? Why do
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: I feel like this if it's still, yeah. Yeah, 100%.
Lauren Haas: Yeah, if I should just be grateful.
Anna Bernacki: It's very, very, it's very complex and it's so hard to navigate. So I think it's so important as parents and teachers and educators that you're able to do that for them
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: and pinpoint those things so that you can take that pressure off.
Lauren Haas: Yeah.
Anna Bernacki: And it doesn't become why am I weird? Why am I different? Why am I the odd one? My friends
Lauren Haas: In the shame. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: can move through life with little to no struggles, but I'm having this huge reaction to something, yeah. Yes, and it really is
Lauren Haas: Massive. Just absolutely paralyzing. Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: paralyzing. It's so, it's so complex, and I
Lauren Haas: And it reinforces that core wound of like, I'm rejected I'm not enough.
Anna Bernacki: I don't belong. Yeah.
Lauren Haas: I something's wrong with me. This like kind of fatal flaw, right? I think that so much of that core messaging for adoptees and that core wound in our nervous system is like they had zero control when that happened, right? That like shame is already there. And so all of these other layers on top of it through the developmental lifespan. Just add to it. When really
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: it's no one's and I think that's the thing is adopt if my parents, my adoptive parents knew, they never would have said the things they said. They never would have navigated the way they did, but they just didn't know. They didn't have the education. And so I think that
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: when adoptive parents can kind of put their ego and their stuff aside, it allows space for them to show up for their adoptee and actually be curious. and and figure out how can I I can't take their pain away. I can't change the fact that they're gonna deal with grief for the rest of their life, but I can help them process this in a way where they're not alone. They don't think it's something's wrong with them. They're not internalizing all these things about themselves, right? Like that is that's all we can ask, right?
Anna Bernacki: There are so many things and as a parent too, I look at and I want to fix everything for my children. I
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: don't want them to struggle. I don't want them to hurt and have pain. But there's so many things in adoption that just are. They just are. We can't change
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: that there's going to be grief. There will be. We can't
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: change that there's going to be this struggle of where do I belong. We can't change a lot of those things. And that doesn't make it bad. It just makes it what it is.
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: And so as parents, as educators, as teachers, if you can come alongside that child
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: and just let them be with them, give them language, help them process through that, that is makes all the difference in the world. Because
Lauren Haas: Totally.
Anna Bernacki: you can't fix it, but you can sit with them in it and so they're not alone
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: in it.
Lauren Haas: Exactly. And that that shows them that I'm not crazy. I'm not imagining imagining this pain, right? Because I think that whether
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: or not others want to admit it, the adoptee's experiencing it. Their nervous system isn't gonna let it go. Like they are gonna continually have those triggers.
Anna Bernacki: so you mentioned earlier about the Family Tree Project and Mother's Day, Father's
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: Day. Those are always complex. And they're complex for a lot of people. We're not just adoptees. The there are many,
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: many situations that those are really tricky with. Or like the baby pictures, right?
Lauren Haas: Yes, absolutely.
Anna Bernacki: Like I have kids who were adopted from foster care at an older age. I don't have baby pictures for them.
Lauren Haas: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: And I hate that, but it's the reality. And so
Lauren Haas: Mm. Totally.
Anna Bernacki: how can parents advocate for that? Because we don't want to be that parent that's like, I my kid's not
Lauren Haas: Totally.
Anna Bernacki: gonna participate that in this. You don't wanna be that parent, but also you don't want your child to sit there and struggle when you don't have that information. So, what how do we advocate in a way that helps a school understand? how painful these things can be without being the parent that's just like, my kid's too sensitive for that.
Lauren Haas: Totally. Yeah, I feel like this question's two part. First, I want to address the family tree, baby photo, that. And even as an adult, I sat in my master's program of counseling and we had to do a genogram, which is like a big kid family tree,
Anna Bernacki: Mm.
Lauren Haas: and I had that same pit in my stomach, right? And so it's so real. Even as an adult after years of therapy, I still got that pit, right? And I think that when we ask, right, for a student have baby photos. We assume they exist and we assume that they're accessible, right? And I think that that is such a loaded question for any adoptee, anyone who's been in any sort of situation like that, because a lot of us don't have access to accurate information about my ancestry, about my families. and that just brings up grief. And I don't think that teachers You know, they're not bad or cruel for planning these activities. And, you know, most of us were trained in a system that is very centers a very narrow version of what a family looks like. But
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely.
Lauren Haas: once you know better, you can't really unknow it. And so I think that schools can just be a space where, you know, we don't have to delete all talk. A family in tradition from classrooms, but we do have to redesign it so that maybe it looks like, you know, instead of drawing your mom and dad, draw a grown-up who takes care of you or that you look up to, draw different things about home that make you feel good, kind of turning maybe
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: a family tree. I just like to re-just center different words. So circle of care or people who have shaped me. I think that. you know, where kids can include teachers, siblings, coaches, anyone important to them. So offering multiple options for heritage projects, maybe culture you were born into, that gives adoptees, you know, especially transracial adoptees who are navigating even deeper, deeper levels of harm. I think being explicit with that and explaining that also if you don't know, that's okay. and just offering an easy alternative to things and also I think teachers can easily build you know quiet opt-out paths and I think underneath curriculum changing really is the mindset change of like assuming that from the start that there are kids in your room whose family stories include loss, include secrecy, include
Anna Bernacki: Yes.
Lauren Haas: complexity and trauma, even if they look fine. Even if one adult had sat next to me in kindergarten and said, hey, families can look a lot of different ways, that would have changed the game. So
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: I think that what I would want my teacher to know of my kid is that these projects aren't neutral and they can be deeply connecting or deeply isolating, depending on how you design them. And I think when I think about that parent, you know, that's a parent who's maybe you know, very disrespectful or relentless or emotional or unwilling to let things go. And I think honestly, if some of that energy is necessary at times when you're advocating for your child, but often I think educators want to do their best. And if you just kind of are open with your teacher and just, hey, this is something that I want you to be aware of. If you guys do any heritage family tree projects, even printing out a list of like Two alternative ways to word it, ways to address it with that student, that a teacher should hopefully be able to accommodate that, right? And so
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: also kind of advocating for the adoptee can be tricky because you're kind of speaking on behalf of that proverbal trauma. And so things maybe that
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: the child's body remembers, but they can't articulate. And so They might just say, I hate school, or I don't want to do that project. Or maybe a kid brings them cupcakes on their birthday and they start crying, right? And so I think while you're the one seeing the full pattern, this you know, the stomach aches, the meltdowns, the teacher may have not connected those dots. And so it can look intense simply just because you understand. the depth and the i you know the iceberg of like what's underneath and the teacher
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: may not. So kind of helping the teacher see where that's all coming from. And you can do that in a way that is completely respectful of the teacher and teachers care, right? I respect teachers so much. And so I think kind of coming at it with like a team mindset of this might help explain, you know, our child's behavior, they have a history of early separation. You know, a lot of teachers are informed in trauma, informed care. And so they should understand, hopefully, and
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: always going to your school counselor. If you have a school counselor, school counselors are trained in hopefully attachment trauma and all those things. And so
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: just getting someone in your kids' corner that they can talk to, I think is a great start
Anna Bernacki: Yeah, a hundred percent.
Lauren Haas: as well.
Anna Bernacki: Yeah. What if you have a teacher? And I know this is a one-off, right? Like, but unfortunately we've experienced it. And I've gone to the teacher and said, Hey, this behavior is because of adoption, because of trauma. This is how you have to handle it. Like I I know my kid, right? This is how you have to handle it. This is how an immediate this is in a special ed classroom. I don't have to do that. I'm not asking you for this isn't
Lauren Haas: Yeah, that is
Anna Bernacki: special ed. I'm asking, like honestly, kindness would have gone a long way. but
Lauren Haas: Right.
Anna Bernacki: what like just lead with kindness when you give direct
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: instructions? The natural reaction is no. So you kind
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: of have to word things a little different. And
Lauren Haas: Yes.
Anna Bernacki: the response was nope. And
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: my child was ostracized from the classroom. And so
Lauren Haas: Hm.
Anna Bernacki: it's just and I understand that that's an extreme situation. But it happens. Yeah,
Lauren Haas: But also it's more common than you think. Yeah.
Anna Bernacki: it does happen. And so how
Lauren Haas: Yeah.
Anna Bernacki: would like I had the privilege of working from home and being able to homeschool that year?
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: Never doing that again. But I was able to, I was able to I know
Lauren Haas: I know I'm like, God bless you. That's
Anna Bernacki: fix the situation because of that. But not all parents can or should or that's good for their relationship.
Lauren Haas: Yeah. Mm-mm. And it it reinforces that that see my little advocate in me is coming up and yelling right now because that I see so many burnt out teachers. I think the education system,
Anna Bernacki: Okay.
Lauren Haas: I mean, that would be a whole nother conversation of burnt
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: out teachers. And I think that adoption's tricky. People have some deeply ingrained beliefs around adoption. And I've had a Supervisor. Say to me before, why is that kid acting out? They were adopted as a child. Like that shouldn't affect them. From a fully trained counselor. Yeah. I'm like, okay, let me take a couple
Anna Bernacki: You're like, you talked to the wrong person on that one.
Lauren Haas: deep breaths before I respond to that. but I think that there are a lot of misconceptions and I think some cognitive dissonance when it comes to adoption-specific trauma. Like, we could be like, the mother of that child died at birth. And maybe then a teacher would be like, treat that differently. I think that adoption oftentimes
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: gets treated very differently. And so I think
Anna Bernacki: yeah.
Lauren Haas: when it comes to dealing with that teacher, if the fact that you had to go in homeschool is amazing that you had the capacity to do that. But like you said, there's a lot of Parents that don't have access to that and that shouldn't have to homeschool their teacher or homeschool their teacher. I mean, maybe this teacher does need homeschooling, homeschool their child.
Anna Bernacki: Might need to do that too.
Lauren Haas: But taking that to admin, taking that to the principal, taking that to the school counselor, taking it to people in the building that can hold that teacher accountable, because at the end of the day, that's really harmful that that teacher is reinforcing those narratives. and I think too, especially if an adoptive child has some sort of clinical diagnosis, they can get a 504 and they can get accommodations for what they need. And so advocating for that route, if that's something that your student needs. I think if you tried the nice cities route and that doesn't work, going, there's there's legal protections for students. And so understanding your rights as a parent. And understanding that you don't need to just end the route there, that you can take that to the admin, to the school counselor, to the vice principal. And if that doesn't work, taking to the I'm gonna ruffle some feathers, taking it to the district. Like you
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: if you have the energy for that and the capacity for that, that is something you're allowed to do. And that doesn't make you that parent, right? Parents don't owe schools, you a trauma memoir of their kids' experience, but they can They can share a grounded, honest snapshot that can like kind of give the teacher just enough story so that your child doesn't spend nine months being misread and labeled.
Anna Bernacki: Exactly, yeah.
Lauren Haas: and I think that for adoptees, I encourage parents to name adoption explicitly and early instead of hoping the teacher will somehow intuit that it matters. saying something like, Our child is adopted.
Anna Bernacki: Yeah, you're not helping anyone.
Lauren Haas: Yeah. And that, you know. They can also share how public that information is if they're comfortable sh sharing it with classmates, or please don't share that with the class. I think I just want teachers to understand that your child has already lived through a significant loss, right? And that that proverbal separation is living in their body. And so it will show up, and you don't have to use all the jargon, but you can kind of just share some examples and If they respond to that with resistance or denial or whatever, that reflects something in them. That reflects some internalized dominant narrative or internalized something or other in them. And that's not your
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: responsibility to fix, right? And so also knowing that teachers are held to standards, and so understanding that if they can't accept and hold space for that, then taking other alternative routes to get your child's needs met is completely okay and I'm giving you full permission to
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: do so.
Anna Bernacki: Yeah. And I think what people also don't understand is like my son for the rest of the year had this narrative of I am a bad boy. I'm a bad
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: boy. I'm a bad child. And we just over and over reinforce that no, you're not. So then he went to camp this summer and first time away from me since that school
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: experience going to camp. And we did like the full summer. It's just day camp. But like every day, kind of prepping for school, also so I can work. but he goes to camp every day and he's loved it. He's thriving, he loves it. We're in the car, he is six years old, like fresh six. He just turned six in May.
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: And he goes, Mom, I just needed to be with people who understand me.
Lauren Haas: Throw drop the pen, throw yeah, that's that's it. That's it. He knew, yeah. This is what belonging feels like, yeah. That didn't
Anna Bernacki: My heart broke into million pieces. At six years old, he was able to articulate and realize yes that
Lauren Haas: feel like belonging, this is what belonging feels like.
Anna Bernacki: Yes, I just needed people who understand me. And
Lauren Haas: Yes.
Anna Bernacki: you can be anybody can be that person. It doesn't take a special ed degree. It doesn't take
Lauren Haas: Mm. Yeah. He didn't ask to fix it. Yeah. No.
Anna Bernacki: a anybody can be that person if they try hard enough.
Lauren Haas: No, exactly. Yes. Exa that is such a beautiful my heart, like thinking of that realization is so beautiful at that age too, because that means that his nerve system and you've helped him identify these are the kinds of feelings and people that are safe. And these are the kinds of people where maybe your experience isn't gonna be held right. And helping him differentiate that age, what those two things feel like, you know, so he can grow up. and have agency over who he shares his story with in spaces where he feels like he can be vulnerable and authentic without that being weaponized right against him. that's beautiful.
Anna Bernacki: Right. Right. I know. I just cried. Cause I'm sitting there going,
Lauren Haas: Yes.
Anna Bernacki: it didn't take that much. Like camp, he's got
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: college students who I don't know what they're in school for, but they're college students that are
Lauren Haas: Yeah.
Anna Bernacki: helping him in camp. We're not talking a seasoned teacher or they
Lauren Haas: Mm mm.
Anna Bernacki: just met him where he was. And
Lauren Haas: Yes, met him where he was.
Anna Bernacki: And that's what it takes. And it doesn't take a big extravagant. It can be, hey,
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: I recognize that this child's nervous system is on fire right now. So
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: come here. You seem a little overwhelmed. Let's just take a minute. And then they can go back. It doesn't have to be this huge, complicated thing. It's just about letting them feel seen and giving them space for their emotions, calm down. And then reintegrate into whatever
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: the activity is.
Lauren Haas: Exactly. Having their story and their pain and their be witnessed without shaming them, I think is the key because when we do that, we send them the message that what you're going through isn't your fault. It's normal and you're not too much, right? And I will sit with you through
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: that.
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely. Yes. So as we close up here, I have two final questions for you. One is for teachers and school staff. If you could sit down with every teacher in America and give them some sort of information about working with adoptees, what would you tell them?
Lauren Haas: Ooh, that's a good question. I think if I I would definitely start by saying thank you. I think, you know, I work in schools. I see how overworked and under-resourced you are. I see how big your hearts are as well. I think educators have the biggest hearts, but I think most of most teachers with an asterisk got into this because they care about kids and you're doing that caring inside a system that is. That don't often care for you back. And so none of what I'm about to say, I think, is about blame. I think it's about honoring how much power you have in shaping kids' relational experiences and their view of themselves, right? And so I think I would tell them that some kids in your classroom have already survived the biggest rupture of their life before they could even talk. And I think for adoptees, especially those, you know, adopted younger on, their first major experience. in the world was separation from a person whose body kept them alive and so their nervous system holds that story even if they're they don't have the language for it. And so you're not responsible for healing that in any way. but you are a major character in the chapters that come after that in their life and you can help decide whether school is a place that kind of keeps reopening that wound or a place that helps kind of scar over it in healthier ways. And the way you read their behavior is a huge part of that. You'll see this early rupture show up in, you know, either that internalizing or that externalizing way. And so I think that what I'm asking is, you know, not labeling their behavior, but just kind of l helping them learn that they are Not what happened to them, right? There's n nothing wrong with them, kind of shifting from what's wrong with you to what happened to you and what doesn't feel safe for you right now. I think doing that doesn't mean that you let go of boundaries or academics, but you can kind of holding those things and remembering that there's a story in a nervous system that is trying to communicate. and it might
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: sound like this behavior is not okay, but I'm also not going to. Anywhere, right? And so
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: figuring out what kind of kid you're dealing with and holding space for all parts of them in their story. And I think that yeah, you might be the first adult in a child's life who ever shows them that they don't have to be easy or grateful or impressive. And that is the world-changing work, even if it never shows up academically.
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Lauren Haas: Yeah, so that's what I would say to teachers.
Anna Bernacki: Yeah. I think some teachers don't underst they think of it in academics and they don't understand the impact,
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm.
Anna Bernacki: the lifelong impact that they can have on a child for sure.
Lauren Haas: Mm-hmm. And we can't expect a kid to show up academically if their body is in that fight or flight, flea r like trauma response state, you know? So most educators
Anna Bernacki: Also that, yes.
Lauren Haas: are trauma informed to understand that. And also understanding that dysregulation can they can mask it really well, adoptees can. And so just being curious.
Anna Bernacki: Absolutely. And then for the adaptive parent, they're
Lauren Haas: Mm.
Anna Bernacki: listening, the no school's coming, they're getting really anxious because what are we gonna do? How are they going to act when they go into school? What do you want them to know? What do you want parents to know about leaving their child who's already dysregulated and struggling, leaving their child at school?
Lauren Haas: Yes. That dread that you feel as school gets closer isn't dramatic. I think that it's what happens when you love a kid whose nervous system has already been through more than most adults. And so you've
Anna Bernacki: Yeah.
Lauren Haas: watched often how systems maybe don't get it. And so part of that knot in your stomach is your child's story kind of living in your body too. And so what I want you to know is that it's not your job to fix your child's grief or art outsmart, you know, every Hard moment, but you can't make adoption not hurt. You know, there's no version of this where they move through life untouched by loss. But what you can do, and what is profoundly healing for that adoptee, is is to see them, to really see them, you know, and to keep making room for their story and their feelings in whatever messy sideways form that those come and when they melt down after a family project, when they get weirdly activated about a small friendship thing, or they keep asking if you're mad at them, or, you know, whatever way that is sitting with them in it, naming it. You know, you don't have to have the perfect intervention, but making space for it. Attachment is not glamorous, but it's really powerful. I think that it's you noticing that there I'm fine. you know, is is tight and brittle and saying, I believe you're trying to be fine, but I also see that maybe your body looks like it's not fine. You know, it's it it's on you to kind of recognize that pattern in your kiddo and see how that shows up and helping them process that because that kind of steady, non shaming attention tells their nervous system that I'm not crazy and I'm not alone in this. And so you also don't have to protect them from their grief. For it to be a good year. In fact, trying to keep them from that ever feeling that tends to make them feel more alone. and what helps them is giving them the tools and the space to move through that grief in ways that aren't isolating right. That might look like predictable after school ritual. It might be like journaling on hard days, it might be having a little box where you put in, you know, worries or questions or Having a space, a ritual for that grief, for that kind of a place for it, right? You know, when we think about grief and we think about different forms of grief in life. When someone dies, we have a funeral and we go and we talk about it and we can honor that person. But I think with adoption, a lot of time it's this like very ambiguous, disenfranchised showing up everywhere, grief. And so giving your kids
Anna Bernacki: Mm. Yeah.
Lauren Haas: somewhere tangible to put it. Can be really helpful. And I think on the school side, right, you're allowed to tell the truth. You don't have to sanitize their story to make it more convenient or comfortable for adults. and know that it you can advocate for your kid and that by doing that you're gonna help them more than you know. And so just really kind of figuring out who your people are, who what kids. what or what teachers in the building your kid trusts in and helping cultivate those relationships can really help. but yeah, I think my hope is that you know that not everything will be magically smoothed over, but you'll feel less alone and seeing your child, attuning to your child, making space for them, that is doing the work. And that even on days when it the school gets it wrong, the fact that they can come home to that one adult who is willing to advocate for them,
Anna Bernacki: Right.
Lauren Haas: to hold space for their story, is so healing.
Anna Bernacki: Yes, for sure. Well, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate you being here and sharing your wisdom with us. I feel this has been so powerful and I really hope that parents can take this and really feel empowered as they go into this next school year. And then for educators too, like you can just hold space. It's not this big complicated thing to walk alongside adoptees. We just need someone to hold space. And so I hope that that is encouraging for them as well. So I really appreciate you being with me today.
Lauren Haas: You know, this is a wonderful conversation. These are the kinds that really light my heart up and yeah, thank you so much for having me.
