Paradigm Shift, The Lindsey Clancy Effect On Families

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Welcome back once again to the paradigm shift.
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I am Big Rob back with my guy Jesse.
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What's happening, buddy?
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Hey, I got deuces, deuces.
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It's uh Thursday.
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Feeling good about this one.
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I know you guys are eager for a little more Clancy, so guess what?
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Today we're talking the Clancy effect.
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Yes, we are.
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The Ripple Clancy effect.
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Um, and more specifically, we kind of want to talk about the collateral damage that's taking place, not only in marriages, relationships, but also in families and with children, and how these how this collateral damage can go on for generations with something as simple as starting with a court case like this.
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So uh without further ado, Jesse, do you have any uh opening thoughts before we kind of get started here?
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Yeah, I I would say here, you know, the uh the Clancy case has transcended the courtroom, right?
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To become this massive uh cultural lightning rod.
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Um it's been fundamentally altering how uh couples, singles, family members communicate.
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Um so this Clancy effect that we're talking about is basically like a it's a public discourse surrounding her trial, essentially for the deaths of her three children, and it's exposed like a deep uh sociological divide, it's kind of transforming um this weird, tragic uh legal matter into a high-stakes test of relational values and trust.
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So, yeah, you know, this powder keg here, man, it just keeps giving and it keeps giving a little more.
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And right when you think the fire is gonna die down, it flames up again.
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And so that's kind of what we're getting at today.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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A lot of street interviews, a lot of lot of opinions, comments that are and and TikToks and videos that are destroying families and relationships.
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So uh, I think that what we should do, let's dive into our top 10 list, and then after we finish with that, we'll go a little freestyle with it and we'll we'll kind of give our thoughts if if we haven't already based on the top 10 that we have.
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So uh I'm on the road right now, uh, so I am shooting for my laptop.
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So uh this time around, Big Jess is gonna have the uh the top 10 list ready to go.
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So uh the mic is yours, brother.
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Yeah, I was gonna say it's about time we had a little roll reversal.
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So we got little Rob on today's episode.
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I knew Rob.
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All right, here we go.
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So number one here is the dating litmus test.
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So singles are increasingly using the case as a mandatory compatibility screening tool.
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This this is interesting, right?
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So, according to reports featured by Insight Edition, people are actively asking dates for their perspective on the trial before agreeing to a second date.
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So, a partner's view on whether Lindsay Clancy is a criminal or a victim of medical negligence serves as an immediate indicator of shared moral values.
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What do you think about that one?
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Well, I think that it is a logical barometer for sure.
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I mean, it's kind of weird because you would not have asked before, hey, where do you stand on murdering children?
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Right when you're doing yeah, you know, but I digress that I mean it's there, so of course, people are gonna kind of use it, and again, it's a polarizing topic right now that again is destroying relationships, marriages, families, and and much, much more.
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And I think that I don't know, I think it's a double-edged sword because I gotta be honest with you, man.
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There's too many people out there right now who jump into relationships as it is, anyways, without knowing enough about a person.
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A lot of times, and I tell this to friends of mine who are you know have children with someone that they've split up with, and I always tell my buddies, I'm like, you know, guys, like my ex-wife, for example, I have a daughter with her, but our daughter's 18.
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My ex-wife and I are good friends, I'm friends with her fiance because I was careful about who I had a child with, right?
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I knew that uh based on our relationship, because we were we became friends before we started dating, so I knew who she was as a person, right?
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I knew her moral values, I knew her moral compass, and I knew where she stood on things.
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She knew where I stood on things.
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We were together for 15 years, and you know what, we didn't have a big bloat or anything like that.
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It just it had just run its course.
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We were roommates, and we we said we sat down and we said, you know what?
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Before we start to resent each other and and hate each other and and blame each other for things that you know really is nobody's fault, why don't we just call it and be good parents, right?
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So that's what we did, and we're good friends.
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And I know everybody can't do that, but a lot more people would be able to do that if they did have a barometer or standard in terms of you know the their potential mates' um moral compass, their their their ethical standards, and yeah, I and it's weird to use something like this as that that barometer, but I don't know what do you think?
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I was gonna ask you that.
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I was gonna say, so if if you were dating today, would you like between dates, let's say one and two, go, okay, yeah, you know, I've had a great time, you know.
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This this has been a lot of fun, but truthfully, where do you stand on the Clancy case?
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Let's just cut through the old crap cake here.
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Where are you at on Clancy?
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Come on, you tell me where you're at so that we're not wasting each other's time here.
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I might be a little more cerebral about finding out, right?
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I might I might uh I might just throw something out there and say, uh you know, if the conversation led there, I wouldn't I wouldn't be looking for um uh uh an entry point for that topic, but you know, if we were dancing around something that was close to it, I might say, How about like, yeah, this Clancy case is kind of crazy, hey?
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Like the whole situation's kind of crazy, and then I would just wait to see what they say.
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Yeah, and then that's you know, I don't need to say, so where do you stand on this?
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They'll just tell you, yeah, I know, like you know, I can't believe that you know this woman is being blamed.
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Okay, well, and then enjoy the rest of the dinner, be nice, be civil, and then just I guess it's not working out, right?
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I mean, listen it's it sounds stupid, but in the big picture, you gotta be with someone who has the same moral compass as you.
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Now, I'm not saying that your moral compass is more correct than theirs from their positioning.
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If you have opposite views, yours is off, right?
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But the bottom line is the compatibility is not there, and eventually that is going to win out.
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So why bother even starting something you're not going to be able to finish?
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Fair point, fair point.
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You know, uh dating us a little bit.
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Um, I can think of a similar maybe court court drama, the OJ case, right?
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Like years years ago.
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And you know, I can't imagine like like dating my wife and being like, hey, so OJ, where you at?
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You think the glove really fit, or is that just some some crap?
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You know, they place that crap down there.
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Like, come on, where you stand?
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You think OJ did it?
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I mean, he was in he was in the Bronco, right?
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He was in the Bronco, where you stand, and if cut the shit.
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I mean, if she was like, he's innocent, I'd be like, I don't know, here, you know, but but then again, then again, you know, you know what's funny about this is that typically opposites attract, right?
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So maybe, maybe if you had an opposite view, then maybe that would that would be more of an attraction than somebody agreeing with you.
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Well, and that that's another big I don't want to say issue with relationships today, but I think that and and this does kind of segue into a late you know something we'll discuss a little bit later in this in this stream in this podcast, and that is that generational uh baggage or generational trauma, right?
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Some people need they and I was one of these people, man.
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Like, I'm gonna kind of I'm gonna kind of dox myself here a little bit.
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I was one of those people for a long time.
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Uh, I thrived on dysfunction, and people do they have to fight, they have to argue because of some trauma, and I was like, and I didn't realize it like uh until my wife now, my current wife pointed it out, right?
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And that's that my mother, when I was young, when I was like 11, 12, 13, you know, early early teens, would make me stand there and argue with her, and whenever she would yell at me for something, right?
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She'd call me names, she'd call me a little bastard, a cocksucker, she'd get mad at me, all this stuff.
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Ouch.
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And if if I would turn around to leave, she would get the fuck back here, and she would make me stand there for like an hour or two till she was done arguing because she thrived on dysfunction, right?
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So then that was normal for me in a relationship, right?
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Where I would then um, like I wouldn't call my wife those kinds of names, but when we would get into an argument, I just wouldn't stop arguing because that's was my dysfunction.
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And my wife kind of pointed out to me, and it was it wasn't until she pointed it out to me, like, you know, it's okay to stop arguing, come back and have a conversation later.
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And then I I kind of, you know, we kind of talked through it and I realized that I was doing that, and the the way that I realized it was because it had the same emotional feelings inside me that I had when my mom was having those arguments with me.
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And I know it sounds stupid, but that got me thinking that that's how you function, right?
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Interesting, yeah.
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So that's what I mean by generational trauma, and like what you're you're teaching your kids what they're going to move forward with as normal and it's not normal, right?
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Yeah, so that's what I mean when I say that you know, these these people that thrive on dysfunction and relationships, some people don't even realize that they need that, they need to argue, they need to fight.
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So, to your point, they need somebody who is the opposite, they need someone who can and will tolerate being their punching bag emotionally and mentally, right?
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Yeah, that's interesting.
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I think, you know, when you were saying that, it makes me think about how you can get in like arguments about like things like politics, for example.
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And I'm the kind of person I don't argue with anyone.
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Like, I kind of take that Keanu Reeves view of like you say the sky's purple, all right, it's purple, great, let's move on.
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You know, like like I I I'm completely checked out, but I can see where there are other people that get really passionate, really fired up about these things.
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And then, like you said, you're almost like arguing for the sake of arguing.
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Like, are you even accomplishing anything?
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Are you just giving yourself like a migraine?
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You know, yeah, yeah, they're just worked up, they're just and they thrive off that.
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It's like a dopamine hit when they're they get those emotions going, they get worked up, and they're you know, and then, like you just said, at some point, you're not even arguing your point anymore.
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Yeah, you're arguing to argue, you're arguing from a position of dishonesty because it doesn't matter what the other person says, they can show you cold hard facts that you're wrong, and you're just gonna keep going, right?
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Yeah, well, I'll tell you, that's a good uh segue in the number two here for us today.
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Broken engagements and canceled weddings.
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So the polarization has driven some couples to the point of breaking up entirely.
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High profile instances discussed by commentators on the Hidden Truth Crime podcast highlight engagements being called off because one partner showed compassion for Clancy's postpartum psychosis, while the other viewed the compassion as an unforgivable moral failure.
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Ouch.
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This is a double-edged sword.
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Is there's two perspectives to this, right?
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It's a double-edged sword.
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You have men who are like I I've seen videos of men who they were gonna get married like the next day, they were scheduled to get married, and they just called it off.
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He's like, I don't care if I lost it.
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They were just like, nope the Clancy case.
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Yeah, one guy was he paid like 60 grand for his wedding, and it was like it was within like a week, and he's like 60 grand, he's like, Screw it, right?
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Screw it, he's out over Clancy.
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Really?
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Yeah, he's out.
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He's like, I'm done, kippots.
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We're not right, and so there's men out there, and you know, I understand both perspectives.
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There is men out there, many of them, that are saying, Look, if you're okay with the murder of children, and this is it's as black and white as this for them.
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If you're okay with that, we're not compatible, I'm not moving forward with this, whether it's a wedding, a marriage.
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And listen, I completely understand.
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I if there was the slightest thought in my head that the person I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with is going to be able to, in their own mind, justify the murder of children, regardless of the circumstances.
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One percent chance if I can't leave my children with you without having that in the back of my mind down the road.
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Well, she was okay with like you know, children being murdered and the justification of my life is hard as a housewife, and I'm suffering from post-prime depression, so I'm okay with it.
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If I can't leave my kids with you, I'm not having kids with you.
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Yeah, right.
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There's no chance.
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So I understand that perspective.
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The flip side of that coin is that there's a lot of women out there who you know feel that it is an important thing that that uh a wife in a home, a mother, is not you know, negotiated and ignored and you know, taken for granted and uh not cared for, especially when there's all of these signs that she needs help.
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And to you can't have a husband that is going to be ignorant to that.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So the women are saying, I don't want to date you if you don't understand this side of it.
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So there's two valid points.
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Very valid, very valid.
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I I agree.
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I I think you know, what one of the things that fundamentally just bugs me with this case is it it's it's not an all or nothing on either argument, right?
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It's it's mixed.
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And is there a point to her postpartum depression?
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Yeah, absolutely, right?
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Um, this was her third kid in a row.
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I mean, you you know how it is.
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I mean, you get to kid number three, it's like, holy crap, like we're full on Mad Max, like you know, we've got six.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Your daily life is long gone and it ain't coming back anytime soon, you know.
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Um so I I can I can see that that part of it.
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I can see the part, the physical demands of having another child on your body, everything you're going through.
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Um, you know, I I can see the part I know she was having problems, you know, breastfeeding and and this detachment.
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I'm sure that was super depressing.
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Um, and then the idea of like somehow going back to work at some point.
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And like one of the things with Lindsay Clancy was she was known for uh working out a lot.
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Like she she was a runner, right?
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She was always running and working out and all these things.
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So you can't do any of this stuff that you like to do.
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You there's kind of like a loss of identity.
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Um, all of those things are true, you know.
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Maybe you're not feeling good about yourself in general, and then you have a whole nother life to take care of on top of the other two that were already there.
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And then add on to all of that, she's got this kind of like tone-deaf husband uh that's that's kind of a little aloof in this whole process that she's dealing with.
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And she she she keeps reaching out for lifelines and she's getting no support.
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And even, you know, the various psychiatrists she's talking to, uh, one of them testified that, you know, she was like a teledoc, right?
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And she's like, Yeah, I just have a computer program and I'm I'm clicking the the boxes, and I only have you know, choice A, B, or C.
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And I click one of them.
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And, you know, uh Lindsay's attorney was like grilling this lady, right?
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Big time.
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Like, what?
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Like, don't you have any common sense?
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Can't you think for yourself?
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And she's like, you know, kind of mindlessly, like, I follow the program, you know, and and and that's like like all she did.
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But what I was getting at though, what bugs me with this whole thing is that going from all of all of those symptoms and all of that, which we agree is true, this is fact, all that's true.
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Going from that to strangling your children is quite a leap, right?
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This is like a leap over the Grand Canyon.
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These are not one and the same.
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This is this is not something everybody experiences, right?
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Like this is like like what she did in this case is an extreme outlier outside of the norm.
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So then to try and normalize it, that's that like that's where I got a problem here, because this is not this is not normal when you try and normalize that.
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So, you know, like this idea going back to the the topic here of the broken engagements and canceled weddings.
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I mean, you do have to kind of wonder if your partner was like, Yeah, I see that I see that.
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I mean, it's normal.
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No, it's not.
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That's nowhere near normal.
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You're not setting the bar there.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So again, it's it's like, are you like, can we even put a bridge over the Grand Canyon here?
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Maybe we can't.
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I don't know.
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Maybe maybe it's good this came out so that you know you're not getting married to somebody who thinks that's normal.
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That hey, you know, you get a little depressed, go strangle the kids.
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No, that's not, you know.
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And and here's the thing that's not this isn't a bad thing, and people need to stop.
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I think people need to realize that they need to wake up to it, right?
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Um, relationships either dying on the vine or ending because of something like this, because of this kind of a this is a foundational moral and ethical difference of opinion, difference of moral ethics, if you will, right?
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It's not a bad thing if a relationship ends with someone you're not compatible with, you're just extending misery for both of you, right?
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You're not not everyone's compatible with everybody, but listen, there's tons of people out there that are compatible with you, tons of them, right?
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:34.079
Yeah, so probably millions of them, right?
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:44.000
So at the end of the day, like yes, it sucks when relationships end, but you'll be all right at the end of the day, right?
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:45.359
You're gonna be fine.
00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:51.599
There's no reason to be mad at the other person because listen, you're just you're on different wavelengths, yeah.
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:57.920
You don't hate someone because they see something different than you, right?
00:20:58.160 --> 00:20:59.200
Right, exactly.
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:07.519
And and at the end of the day, here it's okay to have empathy with somebody who is struggling and reaching out for help.
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:08.319
That's fine.
00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:20.319
Like, I don't mind you having empathy, but when you take it a step further and try to rationalize her strangling her three innocent children, no, like like that's that's very different.
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:23.599
Yeah, very different, very different.
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:33.920
Okay, so you you kind of uh delved into this a little bit, but number three on the list was a gender-based ideological divide.
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:42.160
So social media dynamics show a stark battle of the sexes playing out in relationships.
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:52.240
So statistically and anecdotally, many women view the case through the lens of a devastating maternal mental health crisis.
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:59.680
While many men look at the case primarily through the lens of criminal intent, causing frictional block.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:05.279
Decades when partners fail to understand each other's emotional reasoning.
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:06.640
What do you think of that?
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:11.599
Well, I mean, this is just another heap on the bag.
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:20.480
Uh, another bag on the heap of garbage that is the divide between men and women that's being gaslit by our government, really.
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:27.519
They keep throwing these divides out there, not just between men and women, between blacks and whites and other races.
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:32.880
And they love it when we're when we're at each other's throats, because then we're not at theirs at the end of the day, right?
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.839
There's a lot of there is a lot of um issues.
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:42.799
And when I say the government, it's because this is a very, very deep.
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:45.200
This is an episode in itself, in my opinion.
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:56.960
This is a very deep problem that started with the government, and that is the divide in the home, the the the nuclear, you know, family, so to speak.
00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:03.680
Um, you know, women's women's lib or whatever you want to call it, feminism.
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:08.079
It it came with a lot of promises for women.
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:17.359
That I don't think that those promises were, I don't think the results was what those promises the women thought they were gonna get, right?
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:25.119
You had generations of women, like they they they put women in the workplace, and women felt that this was a great idea.
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:27.839
And some women are happy in the workplace, don't get me wrong.
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:39.039
But you know, by and large, women were able to be at home, we were able to have a single-income household, right?
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:47.039
Women were able to be homemakers, uh, you know, raise children, whether they wanted to homeschool or whatever the case might be, right?
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:49.920
They were able to do that, they didn't have to go to work.
00:23:50.079 --> 00:24:04.640
The government stepped in, and with this, this uh, and this is just my opinion, the this feminism thing to put to inject women into the workplace, all that did was double the the ability for the government to tax people at the end of the day.
00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:05.279
They love that.
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:07.200
Now we can tax twice as many people.
00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:10.079
Now we get to tax women as well as men, right?
00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:20.000
And I think that if the another negative effect was you you put women in the in the workforce, well, I mean, now you've got a strain as well.
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:29.680
Would we have the same strain on uh the job market if we had half of our society not you know working?
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:35.359
That would probably increase the value of employees, wages would probably be higher.
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:53.359
There's there's a lot of potential effects on the entire economy because of this, and I think that again, there's a lot of women today that are realizing that the fight that women put forth in the past kind of brought them to a place that I don't think that they're happy.
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:55.680
A lot of them are angry, right?
00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:59.200
Because of it, because they're like, I they can't live.
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:04.960
They can't we live now in a society where you can't live on a single household income anymore.
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:12.640
Like most most women, most people, not just women, you know, they they struggle financially because of the economy, because of all this stuff.
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:28.000
Again, it's it's a very nuanced kind of a situation, but I think that a lot of this kind of started the government as well started incentivizing women to live off the government instead of depending on staying in the nuclear family as well, right?
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:40.240
They they pay more money for women to have the husband and the father gone, especially in the United States, than they do to have the family together.
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:58.960
And I think that the government should be doing the opposite, incentivizing families to stay together instead of paying them to kind of get rid of the dad, and you know, so this all I think is way, way deeper in terms of the divide between men and women, uh, because of all of these things.
00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:08.559
There's a lot of resentment, there's a lot of blaming, there's a lot of all that stuff, and this is just, in my opinion, bag on the heap, right?
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:14.799
Of you know, the back and forth, and social media has not helped at all.
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:21.680
There's a lot of people uh on TikTok and you know, men and women that just should not have a microphone in front of their mouths.
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:24.559
This is true, this is very true.
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:28.240
Single women love to keep other women single.
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:29.599
Let me put it that way.
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:32.079
What wasn't there a term for that?
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:33.680
Uh cock block, right?
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:35.119
Yeah, mother hen.
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:36.400
Mother hand.
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:37.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.759
No, you know, I I I think that's pretty spot on.
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:50.240
Like, you know, when you think about a pregnancy and everything that goes into it, it's like, well, who incurs the changes?
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:52.000
It's the woman dealing with it, right?
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:53.279
I mean, it's her body, right?
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:54.640
That she's dealing with it.
00:26:54.799 --> 00:27:04.000
She's carrying the baby, she's putting on the weight, um, she's having to adjust her entire life, you know, she's having to take months off of work.
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:15.039
And I mean, that there is a lot of um statistical data that, you know, men women historically um make less money than men.
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:21.039
And a lot of it has to do with things like like this, because they're simply not there, right?
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:26.400
They're they're gone having children uh as they should, because who else is having the kid?
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:39.839
You know, like it always kind of makes me cringe in my head when I hear like a man say he's having a kid, or like, you know, somebody says like a coworker man, and it's like, oh yeah, he's having a kid, and it's like he's not having shit.
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:49.920
Like, come on, his wife is having the kid, you know, and he's gonna be out of work for like, you know, a month, uh, you know, uh starting this whole process.
00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:54.559
And yeah, you know, his life's gonna get very busy thereafter.
00:27:54.799 --> 00:28:00.480
But I mean, she's the one going through the bulk of the trauma, the bulk of the work.
00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:09.519
And I think on the flip side, professionally, she she ends up incurring a lot of the fallout of having a family.
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:18.799
Now, the flip side of that is kind of like you said, you know, with these women that are uh career women that never have kids, right?
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:34.799
Um, a lot of them, I think down the road kind of start to regret not having kids or they wish they had, or you know, they try to replace kids with like, I have, you know, two cocker spaniels or you know, three pugs, or you know, whatever their thing is there.
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:37.200
Yeah, exactly.
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:38.400
Yeah, the fur mom.
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:42.319
You know, so I I think they they try and do that.
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:54.960
Um, but then equally, like as a man, when I see a woman who's never had kids, um, whether I want to or not, my head immediately goes, What's wrong with her?
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:59.119
You know, because to me, that's outside the norm of being a woman.
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:03.440
Uh, you never had kids, like you you never had any desire, like nothing.
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:04.640
Like, like, why is that?
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:06.960
Is there some sort of issue, some kind of trauma?
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:08.559
Did you grow up weird?
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:13.119
Um, what really what is that thing that's that's driving that?
00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:26.880
And so I can see how this case kind of touches a nerve on that divide, because also, I mean, like we we talked about a little bit earlier, you know, the husband in this case was kind of like tone deaf, a little bit aloof.
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:46.000
You know, they they had the um nanny that was coming in taking care of the other kids, and you know, he's just sort of like on the computer until he comes upstairs for lunch or whatever, you know, and he's not really dealing with it, and she's kind of having to deal with the whole household, and that's a lot, you know.
00:29:46.160 --> 00:30:00.160
Um, so I I I can see that a little bit, I do want to add in there though, that listen, something that gets overlooked a lot, in my opinion, is that she had a nanny helping her, right?
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:07.920
Now, listen, there are millions of mothers out there with two, three, four kids.
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:16.480
They don't have nannies, no nannies helping them, none of that stuff, and they are strong women who they get the job done, right?
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:24.960
Yeah, and so shout out to them, shout out to them, hands down, because they don't, like I said, they don't got no nannies or nothing like that, you know, take taking care of it.
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:26.319
They're putting in the work themselves.
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:50.319
And I think that that that is an that is a detail that matters because when we're talking about, you know, she was she was it that makes me think it's less about the fact that she was overworked and more about the fact that it was uh a medical and chemical and hormonal imbalance and medical issue that she was having on a metal mental level, than it really was about she was overworked.
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:55.200
You've got a nanny for crying out, you're not yeah, you're not that overworked, right?
00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:59.759
So when some when people said pound home, well, she had three kids to take care of.
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.200
Did she though?
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:06.960
She had it, she also had a tag team partner that was kind of you know helping her.
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:12.960
So that I'm not saying wasn't hard, it's not hard, but I'm saying that that detail does matter, yeah.
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:20.480
Yeah, that because there's homes out there that would kill, no pun intended, for a nanny to be helping her, right?
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:22.480
100, 100.
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:37.039
And I mean, you hit the nail on the head that um she killed the kids because a voice told her to, not because she was overworked, it was because she heard a voice say, kill them and you can kill yourself.
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:41.119
This is way beyond being overworked, right?
00:31:41.279 --> 00:32:05.359
So now I also think that that's a detrimental thing, though, on the husband's behalf, because I can see how probably, and this is just an assumption on my part as a man, probably he thought everything was fine because hey, I got you a nanny, but a man getting a nanny is like him just subbing himself out, yeah, so that he doesn't have to help, right?
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:06.960
That's really all that is.
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:20.960
So I'm not so sure it's a it's a glowing rec, you know, redemption story on his half to you know to be putting that out there either, because you know, a nanny is a is a piss poor uh substitute for a father.
00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:22.079
There you go.
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:27.759
All right, and number four the motherhood trust stress test.
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:40.319
So for men considering starting families, a partner's sympathy toward Clancy has introduced unprecedented anxiety regarding maternal fitness.
00:32:40.799 --> 00:33:01.039
Breakdown texts shared on social platforms reveal men pulling away from relationships under the logic that they must be able to trust a future mother's judgment and stability implicitly, uh, fearing that a defense of Clancy signals a hidden risk.
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:03.759
Let me think of that red flag alarm, right?
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:04.720
Absolutely.
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:06.799
Like I like I touched on earlier.
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:26.079
If I can't go to the gym or go to the office or you know, go to the grocery store in his case without worrying in the back of my head, even 0.1% of a chance that you might do something like that simply because you've justified it when someone else did it.
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:52.319
When when someone shows you that they can justify especially something like that, but when they can when they can mentally justify something in their head that that we all know socially and morally and ethically is unacceptable on any in any scenario, but someone can find a way to kind of make that hurdle.
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:58.960
That's not someone you want to trust in a situation that they've already verbalized, they think it's okay.
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:00.960
I agree.
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:03.920
Yeah, I mean, I I think it's a massive red flag.
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:06.480
If you were like, hey, I can relate.
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:09.840
Uh she was stressed out, she had every right to kill those kids.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:16.000
Like, if you said that's me, I'd be like, ah, like that's that's good, that's a bridge too far.
00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:17.679
That's that is a bridge too far.
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:19.519
She had no right to kill those kids.
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:21.760
She had no right to harm anybody.
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:29.760
If anybody, you know, this is one of the things that kills me with uh suicide and a little pun there.
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:41.360
Suicide and suicide attempts is you know, the the person who's attempting to commit suicide is always extremely selfish, right?
00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:44.159
They're only thinking about themselves.
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:49.920
And, you know, they don't realize the harm they're incurring on everyone else.
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:56.400
And in this case, you know, the harm she did incur on all three of her children unnecessarily.
00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:58.320
She didn't need to do that, you know.
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:05.840
So, you know, like on the one hand, part of me goes, okay, if you're gonna kill anyone, kill yourself.
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:06.960
Good riddance.
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:14.000
But then on the other hand, people who have dealt with suicide, I mean, that fallout follows that family forever.
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:15.679
You never get over that, right?
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:26.639
And so it's like rather than go down the whole suicide path, um, we really got to do everything we can to not ever go down that road to begin with.
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:37.679
And, you know, that's where I think in this case the husband really fell short significantly because he was kind of aware of all these problems she was having along the way.
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:42.000
And he kind of like half-assed helped her out with it.
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:45.360
Like, I don't even think he went to any of these psychiatric appointments with her.
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:47.039
Like, none of them must not have.
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:48.159
No, none of them.
00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:54.639
He he didn't even pick her up, I don't think, from the uh from when she got institutionalized.
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:55.519
You know what I mean?
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:56.800
Like, yeah.
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:03.280
There's a saying that that really stuck with me that I heard when it comes to suicide.
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:10.800
It's that the pain, most people commit suicide because they're dealing with pain, right?
00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:17.599
Whether it's emotional, mental, you know, that that's that's what it comes down to for them, right?
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:20.719
They can't they can't deal with that pain anymore.
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:28.000
Suicide doesn't get rid of the pain, it just transfers it to your loved ones.
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:37.280
Yeah, so what you can't tolerate, what you can't live with, you're inflicting that now on everyone who you love instead.
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:46.320
That's why they call suicide selfish, because you're inflicting what you can't live with on somebody you say you care about.
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:49.199
Yeah, 100% right.
00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:51.599
All right, let's go to number five here.
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:56.000
So, number five is silencing mothers and a fear of openness.
00:36:56.320 --> 00:37:04.400
So psychotherapists note that the vitriol surrounding the case has made mothers fearful of being open with their partners.
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:20.880
Women experiencing normal or severe postpartum anxiety, depression, or intrusive thoughts are actively hiding their struggles from their uh partners out of fear that they will be mislabeled as dangerous or unhinged.
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:30.800
See, now this is interesting to me because it should be having the opposite effect, and it's men's fault for this, right?
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:44.719
Because we have to learn to express our our feelings on something like this in a way that is not so aggressive, right?
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:51.039
Especially towards our wives, for example, or husbands, if you're female, right?
00:37:51.519 --> 00:38:04.159
Um, and what I mean by that is that you can you can feel like like like you and I do, Jesse, that under no circumstances can you find a way to justify this and and make it a standard, an acceptable standard, right?
00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:11.599
However, there is a detail that you and I have disgusted in this, and that is the husband's negligence.
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:53.280
Right now, I would hope that something like this would have men who see things the way you and I do, that this is an unacceptable thing that that's taken place regardless of the circumstances, but also would make them realize that the reason that this one of the reasons that this happened was a negligent husband, and it might make them more in tune to how their wives are doing and more susceptible to hearing what their wives are going through, so that this doesn't happen to them.
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:56.639
Yeah, yeah, it's uh nail on the head, man.
00:38:56.800 --> 00:39:02.320
I think it's it's not just having open communication, right?
00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:16.239
Because in this case, she was communicating how she was feeling, and she was telling him, she told him nearly two months before she killed the children that she was having thoughts of harming the children.
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:18.159
Yeah, she told him that, right?
00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:19.280
So he knew this.
00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:25.599
So he heard it, but what did he do with that information?
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:26.719
You know what I mean?
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:32.960
And and that's that's kind of the problem here is that it's like, were you listening?
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:35.920
And he would he would tell you, yeah, of course I was listening.
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:37.519
Yeah, we tried to get her help.
00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:39.280
I tried to do this or that.
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:42.800
Did you were you really listening?
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:45.039
Did you feel yeah, yeah.
00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:47.199
Did you really, really care?
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:50.159
Were you with her every step of the way?
00:39:50.320 --> 00:40:10.559
You know, I think one of the the tragedies of this whole case is sort of her aloneness in this whole thing, you know, it feels like she was very alone, and it feels like she was telling him, and he was sort of like appeasing her, you know, like, well, you probably need to see a psychiatrist.
00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:12.559
Yeah, you probably need, you know, some medication.
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:14.480
Yeah, you know, how are you doing today?
00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:17.199
Okay, yeah, it's it seems like the old Lindsay's back.
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:20.559
Great, I can move on with my day and worry about, you know, tech.
00:40:20.719 --> 00:40:21.599
I'm in tech.
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:22.480
You know what I mean?
00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:23.760
Exactly.
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:27.440
You know, but but the reality was is what did she really want?
00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:41.760
She wanted a partner there with her uh at the appointment, somebody there who was genuinely like, I care about you, you know, somebody who's there at the institution, or you know, all these all these things.
00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:46.320
And I don't I don't think he was there for her in that way.
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:48.000
And that's the problem.
00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:49.679
He wasn't present, exactly.
00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:57.440
And it comes back down to it's not just listening, it's it's empathy, it's genuine empathy.
00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:00.000
It's hey, shut up for a minute.
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:05.599
Don't say a single word, don't sit there and think you have the solution, just listen, right?
00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:15.280
And I I don't know if he genuinely he he he obviously did not respond in a way that she felt safe, you know.
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:27.280
Well, and and here's the thing we understand that it's easier to say, like it's it's so easy to to become aloof and and oblivious.
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:30.800
It's easy to do that because life gets in the way, right?
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:41.760
Like we're working, we're you know, we're we're dealing with our daily things because men have daily lives, and you know, we got to go out there and we gotta face the world, and you know, and we get that.
00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:52.239
But something when something like this kind of takes place, instead of being aggressive and saying, This is unacceptable, you know, I don't want to hear it.
00:41:52.480 --> 00:42:11.280
It's more maybe this is you know, this is I can't believe that you know, this is unacceptable for sure, but maybe you know, as a husband, boyfriend, whatever, maybe check in on your wife from time to time, be present, you know, and make sure she's okay, right?
00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:30.239
Because there's no way, in my opinion, that uh wives and and homemakers out there should be starting to feel like they can't share um their struggles.
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:39.920
That's that's your relationship is you know on on life support at that point, if that's the situation.
00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:42.320
Agree a hundred percent.
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:43.360
All right.
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:48.559
Number six hypervigilance over partner mental health.
00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:55.679
So conversely, the details of the trial have made some partners hyper-aware of early warning signs.
00:42:55.920 --> 00:43:06.000
Couples are now navigating heightened scrutiny regarding sleep deprivation, severe confusion, and pharmaceutical over-medication.
00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:21.519
Um, this has increased partner surveillance as couples learn that postpartum psychosis requires external intervention because the affected individual often lacks self-awareness of their state.
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:25.599
Ah, yes, the Google MDs.
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:29.440
Great.
00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:35.599
Uh, on this one, all I would really say is stop trying.
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:45.760
Like if you're one of these people, don't go around trying to diagnose mental conditions or emotional conditions, whether it's mental, physical, or otherwise.
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:50.159
Google is nice, it's handy, it's not a PhD.
00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:51.440
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:52.239
Right.
00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:56.400
If you know, communicate is what you should be doing.
00:43:56.719 --> 00:43:57.599
Yeah, I think so.
00:43:57.760 --> 00:43:59.760
I mean, it at the end of the day, it's a tool to help.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:09.199
Help you, but really it goes back to the prior one about simply being present, actually listening, and actually empathizing.
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:11.199
I think is where that one lands.
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:12.159
All right.
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:14.239
Uh, next one here.
00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:18.480
So true crime parasocial disagreements.
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:31.360
So as documented by true crime analysis or sorry, analysts, uh, individuals develop intense parasocial bonds with figures like Lindsay or Patrick Clancy.
00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:37.039
Spouses bring these rigid, internet-fueled detective theories home.
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:51.039
This sounds like TikTok, uh, leading to bitter domestic arguments over a case that has no direct impact on their lives, but serves as a proxy war for how they view marital truth.
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:57.039
I think that leaks back to what I talked about earlier, people who thrive on dysfunction, right?
00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:07.360
There's a lot of people on the internet that a lot of times, and I've noticed this just from you know, doing podcasts and YouTube and all the stuff that we do.
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:19.679
There are people out there who will completely fabricate uh an entire story based on little bits and pieces of information, like it's murder she wrote or something.
00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:37.199
Little shout out to Jessica Fletcher, and um, you know, and then they just they now it's factual information to them, and it's a I think it's a it's one, it's people who thrive on dysfunction, but it's also a fanatic thing as well.
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:46.159
I mean, this isn't new, it's it's it's new to this generation because the internet's here, but I mean this was always a thing back.
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:54.480
I mean, look at um um Bob Marley gets shot opening his door, right?
00:45:55.039 --> 00:46:17.440
Why because somebody made up a kind of a didn't like him because they made up a situation in their heads based on little bits of information, and then something they go do something terrible, and it it's a it's a common thread uh in our society that that people do this kind of thing, right?
00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:37.199
It's people feel that their opinions are facts, and because they can manifest a story about something that could possibly theoretically have happened or could have been the situation, somehow now transforms into that is 100% what happened.
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:38.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:46:38.559 --> 00:47:01.039
I I I think I think people that are marginalized or not in control, something like this gives them a great excuse to pick a fight, you know, because this this is that lightning rod that they're gonna hold on to, you know what, this has been building for a while, boom, you know, the case, right?
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:03.599
And I think they kind of latch on to that.
00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:16.320
And like you said, you got all these, you know, at-home detectives, you know, telling telling you how you know they think he the husband killed the kids, or you know, this thing or that thing.
00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:23.519
And there's there's no factual information behind any of this, but they're looking to pick a fight, you know.
00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:32.079
Well, I think that we over we oversimplify things, and with these these individuals, we refer to them as social media warriors and stuff like that, right?
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:39.920
But I think that's an oversimplification to kind of accept them or or make it make it acceptable behavior.
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:42.559
It's just, oh, it's just a social media warrior or whatever, right?
00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:43.840
But I think it's deeper than that.
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:47.519
Social media, TikTok has given people a voice.
00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:55.280
The problem is that those people think their voices matter more than they do, right?
00:47:55.599 --> 00:48:00.480
Someone who thinks that they're an authority on everything usually knows nothing.
00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:03.920
I I say that one all the time.
00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:09.840
You know, the person who the person who is the loudest that has to tell you how smart they are.
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:11.360
I mean, who does this remind you of?
00:48:11.519 --> 00:48:16.239
Somebody very prominent right now has to tell you constantly how smart they are.
00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:19.280
That is literally the dumbest person in the room.
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:20.880
That is the dumbest person.
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:22.400
I'm a very, very smart man.
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:25.199
I'm the smartest man that I that I've ever met.
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:29.679
No one is smarter than me.
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:31.920
I am bigly smarter than anyone.
00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:33.199
Everyone is saying it.
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:34.559
People are telling me all the time.
00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:37.199
Yeah, they're saying how great it is, how smart I am.
00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:38.559
Yeah, exactly.
00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:39.280
Exactly.
00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:40.320
Case in point.
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:41.039
All right.
00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:43.039
Here's your next one.
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:46.639
Philosophical clashes on forgiveness.
00:48:47.039 --> 00:49:02.400
So Patrick Clancy's choice to publicly forgive his ex-wife and advocate for perinatal uh health has sparked fierce couples debates on the boundaries of forgiveness.
00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:16.559
Partners find themselves clashing over the existential limits of unconditional love, debating whether they could ever forgive a spouse under similarly catastrophic circumstances.
00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:21.920
Well, the key word there is unconditional love.
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:26.239
What's the key word in unconditional love?
00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:29.679
Unconditional, right?
00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:35.599
You cannot put conditions on love and call it unconditional love.
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:37.440
You can't, right?
00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:42.320
Um even like even like me and my wife, for example.
00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:45.440
I like to think I I love my wife unconditionally.
00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:52.719
And I mean, maybe it's true because you can love someone from afar, right?
00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:58.880
You can forgive them, you can have nothing to do with them, you can still love them.
00:49:59.840 --> 00:50:00.400
Right?
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:04.559
Uh, a lot of people are are like that with family, right?
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:11.360
But at the end of the day, I think, and we did touch on this before.
00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:16.320
For me personally, forgiveness is something that's internal, not external.
00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:22.000
It's not something that needs to be discussed, it's not something that needs to be broadcast.
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:29.199
You don't even need to tell the person that you forgive that you forgive them.
00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:31.360
Forgiveness is for you, not for them.
00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:32.000
Right.
00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:40.320
It's so that you can move on with your life and not be stuck in a moment for the rest of your life, right?
00:50:41.039 --> 00:50:43.360
That's what forgiveness is to me.
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:54.159
Um, so when someone goes around broadcasting forgiveness, I I kind of feel a little bit like it's disingenuous.
00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:57.119
That's 100% how I feel.
00:50:57.280 --> 00:51:16.960
I think, I think in this case, it comes across disingenuous that he is publicly forgiving her, though I don't know if he's ever actually said that to her directly, or if she has understood what he's said, or if it even means anything at all.
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:38.800
And you know, like you and I talked in one of the other episodes about this, where you know, I gotta be honest, if I was married to Lindsay Clancy and she strangled our three three very small minor children in the way that she did, I would never, never forgive her, period.
00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:46.159
And and yeah, I think that you do need to, as a person, you need to be able to move on with your life.
00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:52.800
You need to be able to be happy and have love and have all these other emotions.
00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:57.840
But the chapter of her killing our children, I would simply close the book on.
00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:02.559
At no point in that chapter is there any forgiveness, right?
00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:09.039
So I think it's just very weird, this outlandish forgiveness.
00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:10.480
Like you and I talked about it.
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:16.559
That it this is like how I feel about people that go on Instagram to wish their spouse or a happy birthday.
00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:18.400
It's like, what the hell are you doing?
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:23.440
Like she's in the kitchen, go over there and say happy birthday.
00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:26.639
Why are you posting this garbage on Instagram?
00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:31.840
Like for the whole world to know that you what it's just a really weird.
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:37.360
It's a weird I think it's it stems in insecurity, I think, a lot of times.
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:54.239
Uh, it's it's a way for people to make the thing even on a in a parallel way about them instead of it is it is because it's saying I'm seeking social acceptance by publicly doing this thing that I'm making it look like it's for you, but really it's for me, right?
00:52:55.119 --> 00:53:03.360
And I I think that hims publicly saying that he forgives her is I I told you before, I think this is a marketing gimmick.
00:53:03.519 --> 00:53:09.920
I think that somebody told him we need to paint you as the victim, and him saying I forgive you makes him the victim.
00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:10.719
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:22.079
She's now the the perpetrator, he has been victimized, but he is granting her grace because he's such a great person and he's forgiving her.
00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:27.280
Forgiveness is in here, it's not it's not out there in the in the press.
00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:27.840
Right.
00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:33.519
It it it feels like lawyer advice, like bad lawyer advice is what it feels like.
00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:34.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:36.159
Okay, absolutely.
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:37.679
We got two more here.
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:42.000
So systemic failure versus personal accountability.
00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:54.000
So the trial has highlighted a fragmented healthcare system, ain't that the truth, where Clancy was prescribed 14 different medications by various clinicians.
00:53:54.320 --> 00:54:17.599
In relationships, this is manifest as an ideological conflict between partners who view life through a structural systemic lens, blaming healthcare failure versus those who view life strictly through personal accountability, straining everyday communication regarding blame and empathy.
00:54:18.159 --> 00:54:19.679
Can it be both?
00:54:21.199 --> 00:54:21.679
Yeah.
00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:25.199
There was some medical negligence here.
00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:28.239
There's definitely medical negligence, absolutely, 100%.
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:32.880
Yeah, you know, well, but there's also personal accountability.
00:54:33.199 --> 00:54:36.239
Yeah, you know, my my own personal beliefs.
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:43.599
Um, yeah, I know you and I have probably talked about this a little bit, but I've always been pro-supplement, anti-pharmaceutical.
00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:45.280
That's kind of where I stand, right?
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:54.559
And so whenever I see people that are quick to pharmaceuticals, I I think in my head, poor bastard, you have no idea what's coming.
00:54:54.800 --> 00:54:59.920
Because the reality is that every one of these pharmaceuticals has like a laundry list of side effects.
00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:04.159
And you could tell yourself all day long that, oh yeah, you're just not going to get any of them.
00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:05.199
What if you do?
00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:06.559
You know, what if you do?
00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:07.039
Yeah.
00:55:07.360 --> 00:55:16.559
And in this case, I want to say two of her medications, the side effects were hearing voices and harmful thoughts, and these these things like that.
00:55:17.679 --> 00:55:29.280
That you're you're that quick to activate 14 uh you know chemicals in your body that are not normally there.
00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:31.199
You're that quick to take this stuff.
00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:38.000
And and the interesting part with with Lindsay is that it's not like every one of these prescriptions, she like killed the bottle.
00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:44.159
It was like she had like a handful of them and then didn't really like it and tried something else, you know.
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:52.159
So it's just weird to me as the supporting partner, the husband, that you could just sit there and be like, oh, did did the Zolof not work?
00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:52.880
Okay, great.
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:57.039
You know, let's move on to the Ataban and you know, and then let's let's try that.
00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:01.199
Like, how many how many drugs are you gonna you gonna put her on here?
00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:05.840
Um, you know, I I I don't like that whole aspect of this trial.
00:56:05.920 --> 00:56:07.599
That part really bugs me, you know.
00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:14.800
Well, I think I told you before, um, growing up, my mom was on about 30 to 40 different medications my whole life, right?
00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:20.000
She had a bag that was literally referred to as her pill bag that she brought with her everywhere.
00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:26.320
It was like the size of a purse because it was just full of all of these different medications, my whole life, right?
00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:29.679
And that I thought that was normal because that's how I grew up.
00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:44.719
So I believe three times a day, morning, afternoon, and evening, she would be taking handfuls of pills and just shoving them down, two big handfuls, you know, three times a day, and it would comatose her for the most part, right?
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:46.320
All day, every day.
00:56:46.639 --> 00:56:57.360
And I can tell you that my mom passed in 2019, and um she was in her late 50s.
00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:03.760
She looked like she was in her mid-70s, right?
00:57:04.639 --> 00:57:16.000
Yep, and I found out later that half the medication she was on were not supposed to be taken with the other half of the medication she was on.
00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:27.599
That they like and that's a that's a nuance people need to understand with medications is most of them are not supposed to be taken with the other half of them, yeah, because it leads to things, right?
00:57:27.760 --> 00:57:34.000
Like, I don't know, schizophrenia, maybe, or something, or or the symptoms of it, you know, stuff like that.
00:57:34.159 --> 00:57:37.760
And it's it's not it's not a good road to go down, man.
00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:48.800
No, no, and I I I think kind of putting putting a cap on on this one, you you were spot on with can it be both?
00:57:48.960 --> 00:57:55.760
So there was clearly a systemic failure, but there was clearly, I think, a lack of personal accountability.
00:57:56.079 --> 00:58:16.960
Um definitely with the husband, but even even with her, man, like I even just read something the other day that said her uh her attorney put into the court to have her um found not guilty versus a mistrial, and the court said no, which they should, right?
00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:17.519
Right.
00:58:17.679 --> 00:58:21.360
So so they even even now it's like, yeah, not guilt.
00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:22.480
What?
00:58:22.719 --> 00:58:24.960
Like, no, there is some accountability.
00:58:25.039 --> 00:58:32.880
I mean, you literally took exercise bans and strangled three children under five years old, and you think you're not guilty?
00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:38.559
Like you're you're not on all these pills now, but a little personal accountability on her part here.
00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:40.800
Uh, hello, you know.
00:58:41.039 --> 00:58:46.480
Well, isn't that isn't that just uh a small symptom of our society today as a whole?
00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:49.840
That there is no personal accountability for almost anything anymore.
00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:50.559
There you go.
00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:53.440
Yeah, like for anything anymore, right?
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:59.679
Everything is always you do something wrong, it's somebody else's fault that you did it, right?
00:59:00.559 --> 00:59:04.480
And it that I've noticed that in our even my wife, some like a lot of times.
00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:12.400
I have to sometimes have to stop her and you know, be like, you know, take some accountability for your actions here, right?
00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:15.440
Like, not everything is always somebody else's fault.
00:59:15.519 --> 00:59:18.079
You made a choice, it was a bad choice.
00:59:18.239 --> 00:59:20.320
It's okay to say I fucked up.
00:59:20.559 --> 00:59:21.760
Yep, yep, right.
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:24.320
Hey, I'm gonna say it right here.
00:59:24.400 --> 00:59:35.199
I I almost never do this, but I'm gonna give a plug to a book right here that I recently just read by uh Jocko Willink and Leif Babin, Extreme Ownership.
00:59:35.440 --> 00:59:43.440
It's a leadership book, and as the title says, Extreme ownership, it's taking account for your own fuck ups and saying, you know whose fault it is?
00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:48.880
It's my fault, you know, and I'm gonna do better and I'm gonna try and do more, right?
00:59:49.119 --> 01:00:00.079
So one of my one of my top uh I don't know, you know, things that I favorite quotes that I I like to say to myself a lot of the time.
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:03.760
I even have it in my office on a plaque, right?
01:00:04.320 --> 01:00:11.679
And that is uh it says, quote, I got myself into this, I can get myself out of this.
01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:13.280
Right?
01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:30.480
Doesn't matter what the situation is, if you're in a shitty situation in your life, whether it's emotional, like relationship-wise, finances, um, you know, whatever the case might be, odds are you fucking got yourself there, but the good news is you damn sure can get yourself out of it too.
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:33.760
Yeah, right, and that's how I look at every situation in my life.
01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:45.280
If I'm in a stressful situation, something's bothering me, whether it's socially, financially, whatever the case might be, I always look at that and I say, I fucking got myself here because of the choices that I made.
01:00:45.599 --> 01:00:50.000
But the good news is I can make other choices that can get me out of this situation.
01:00:50.159 --> 01:00:52.400
That's accountability in a nutshell.
01:00:52.639 --> 01:00:53.360
Yeah, yeah.
01:00:53.440 --> 01:00:58.800
And and you know, with that, I always say, uh, you don't pick your parents.
01:00:59.119 --> 01:01:04.639
So up until you're 18, it's okay to blame somebody else because you're a kid, right?
01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:05.599
But guess what?
01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:09.760
When you hit 18 and you get older than that, all your decisions are your own.
01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:11.679
So there's no one else to blame anymore.
01:01:11.840 --> 01:01:12.880
It's all on you.
01:01:13.119 --> 01:01:23.519
And the great part is even like you mentioned earlier, even in childhood, if you have certain issues and certain things, when you're an adult, you don't need to live that way.
01:01:23.679 --> 01:01:25.840
You can live your own life however you want to live it.
01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:27.760
You don't need to carry any of that forward.
01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:34.159
You simply need to turn the page and move to the next chapter of you taking accountability and living a great life.
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:36.000
That's what you got to do, right?
01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:37.199
Absolutely.
01:01:37.440 --> 01:01:41.840
You can listen, you can be in a bad mood for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:45.039
You can also be in a great mood for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:45.920
It's your choice.
01:01:46.159 --> 01:01:46.880
There you go.
01:01:47.039 --> 01:01:56.559
All right, with that, we got one last one here for today's episode: household skepticism and subconscious distrust.
01:01:57.119 --> 01:02:12.000
So it says here online conspiracy theories suggesting Patrick Clancy's involvement, despite cell phone and surveillance evidence entirely clearing him, have leaked into household discourse.
01:02:12.239 --> 01:02:28.639
This has triggered deeper subconscious debates within marriages regarding domestic gaslighting, financial motivations such as GoFundMe accounts, and whether one can ever fully know the person they sleep next to.
01:02:36.159 --> 01:02:37.760
Can you really know anybody?
01:02:38.079 --> 01:02:42.320
Can you really even know yourself at the end of the day until you're really tested?
01:02:42.639 --> 01:02:42.960
Right?
01:02:43.280 --> 01:02:50.239
I mean, you made a comment the last time we talked, I think it was, about being dropped off out in the desert.
01:02:50.719 --> 01:02:52.719
I think I think that was you I was talking to.
01:02:52.800 --> 01:03:01.679
He said, You got dropped off out in the desert, away from society, away from all of the conveniences and technologies and everything like that.
01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:04.800
And you realize you don't know as much as you thought you knew.
01:03:05.360 --> 01:03:07.679
So certainly, you know, this is true.
01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:12.800
This, yeah, this is when you realize, like, oh, I don't know everything when you're in the middle of nowhere.
01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:14.159
Yeah, exactly.
01:03:14.400 --> 01:03:16.239
So, do you know yourself?
01:03:17.360 --> 01:03:21.199
Well, if you've never really been tested, probably not.
01:03:22.159 --> 01:03:23.199
Yeah, yeah.
01:03:23.360 --> 01:03:30.079
I, you know, I think though, you know, this one skepticism, subconscious distrust.
01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:33.920
I feel like that's maybe already present.
01:03:34.159 --> 01:03:43.920
And then something like this just kind of pulls that out a little bit more of, you know, this whole case is like one big wedge, right?
01:03:44.079 --> 01:03:47.760
Like, is it is it a positive thing that we learn from this?
01:03:47.920 --> 01:03:49.920
That's what you want to take away.
01:03:50.079 --> 01:03:59.840
But I think the reality, and I mean, the reason we started covering it to begin with is you're talking about the wedge that they're driving with this thing on TikTok, right?
01:03:59.920 --> 01:04:01.280
It's like a massive wedge.
01:04:01.360 --> 01:04:04.159
It's like a lightning rod that they're trying to go down.
01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:23.039
And I feel like, you know, in today's world, especially in this era of social media and the 24-hour news cycle, uh, the stuff that gets clicks, the stuff that people watch all day long, this endless news, is the stuff that divides us, right?
01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:32.079
But at the end of the day, when you really actually sit down with people and turn all that shit off, and you actually sit there, you realize we can all sit at the table.
01:04:32.239 --> 01:04:34.159
We can all talk about all kinds of things.
01:04:34.320 --> 01:04:36.400
Actually, we've got a ton in common.
01:04:36.559 --> 01:04:42.000
You know, like like, do we do we even need all of this crazy distrust that we have today?
01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:49.280
I think it's just it's this filter, this megaphone of garbage that comes out of social media.
01:04:50.159 --> 01:04:58.559
Well, here, I guess this would kind of be my response to this would also be kind of my final thought for the episode.
01:04:58.639 --> 01:05:12.800
And that would be that if you're gonna have these kinds of conversations, whether it's with your partner, your friends, your family at the dinner table, whatever it is, be prepared to actually have a conversation.
01:05:13.199 --> 01:05:21.679
Go into the nuance of the situation, don't be lazy, skim over it and go, you know, I'm the authority on this, this is wrong.
01:05:21.760 --> 01:05:25.840
It's black and white, she's to blame, or he's to blame, and that's it.
01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:26.559
You're wrong.
01:05:26.719 --> 01:05:28.480
Fuck you if you don't agree with me.
01:05:28.639 --> 01:05:32.800
That's not a conversation, that's being an asshole, right?
01:05:33.199 --> 01:05:37.760
So if you're gonna have these conversations, have these conversations.
01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:56.480
Listen to hear, don't listen to respond and have a conversation because as Jesse and I have have kind of laid out, there's a lot of nuance, not just in this situation, but in all situations, and details matter, right?
01:05:57.280 --> 01:05:59.519
There's more than one right answer.
01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:05.280
Or more than one right opinion when it comes to these kinds of situations.
01:06:05.440 --> 01:06:08.239
And there's more than enough blame to go around.
01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:08.960
Yeah.
01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:09.360
Yeah.
01:06:09.599 --> 01:06:21.599
So if you can't do that, if you can't have that conversation, actual conversation, not I'm right and you're wrong, an actual conversation, then don't start the conversation.
01:06:22.079 --> 01:06:29.440
And if someone starts the conversation with you and you know that you are that type of person, just don't express your opinion.
01:06:29.599 --> 01:06:31.199
Keep your mouth shut.
01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:32.239
There's nothing.
01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:40.079
Listen, no one ever went, you know what's the saying?
01:06:40.239 --> 01:06:40.960
What is it?
01:06:41.039 --> 01:06:41.519
I think Dr.
01:06:41.599 --> 01:06:44.639
Phil says, never miss a good opportunity to shut the fuck up.
01:06:44.960 --> 01:06:45.599
Right.
01:06:45.920 --> 01:06:48.159
He puts the F-bomb in there, too.
01:06:48.800 --> 01:06:51.440
I might have, I might have uh you might have added that part up.
01:06:54.719 --> 01:06:57.599
Uh but it makes sense, right?
01:06:57.840 --> 01:06:58.639
Yeah, yeah.
01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:09.039
I I I think you know, where I land on this one is at the end of the day, the Clancy effect is a it's a lightning rod, it's a wedge, it's all these things, it's a divider.
01:07:09.599 --> 01:07:15.679
I would just say be mindful at the end of the day that uh this did break up a family.
01:07:15.840 --> 01:07:22.159
There's three dead children that are buried somewhere uh following the fallout of this case.
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:24.000
Like this actually happened.
01:07:24.159 --> 01:07:29.840
There's probably people that may or should lose their professional licenses from this case.
01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:31.760
There's a lot of fallout from this thing.
01:07:31.840 --> 01:07:44.000
So I think what I'm saying is there's real people involved, and sometimes you know, you gotta step back from being Monday morning quarterback a little bit and say, okay, let's ask the follow-up questions.
01:07:44.079 --> 01:07:46.079
What would I do if I was in this situation?
01:07:46.159 --> 01:07:48.000
You know, how would I have handled this?
01:07:48.079 --> 01:07:50.000
How would I have done it differently?
01:07:50.320 --> 01:07:56.159
I know I said that that was my final thought, but I actually do have uh a final thought for men and for women out there.
01:07:56.719 --> 01:07:58.000
If you're okay with that.
01:07:58.239 --> 01:08:00.800
Hey, I'll give you two final thoughts.
01:08:01.199 --> 01:08:02.159
Perfect.
01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:21.439
Okay, so for men out there, my final thought is this make sure that your wife knows that she can talk to you about what she's dealing with, without trying to diagnose her with your Google MD license or Google PhD, right?
01:08:21.840 --> 01:08:26.880
Without judging, without being paranoid, she's gonna do something rash.
01:08:27.520 --> 01:08:30.720
She should never feel like you're you're her partner, man.
01:08:30.880 --> 01:08:34.560
You are the one that she relies on.
01:08:35.680 --> 01:08:39.520
So be the partner that she can rely on, right?
01:08:40.720 --> 01:08:42.560
Communicate to women.
01:08:42.800 --> 01:09:01.119
What I would say is this the women out there that are making TikToks and videos and expressing to everyone that will listen, yelling from the rooftops, that they can relate to Lindsay and that their own children are like a noose around their own necks.
01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:04.319
Understand the trauma you're causing to your own children.
01:09:04.640 --> 01:09:15.680
Imagine what we're doing right now is we're we're now starting to raise an entire generation of little people whose mothers are saying, You're a drag on my life.
01:09:16.079 --> 01:09:26.239
Imagine growing up with your mother broadcasting to the world that you are detrimental to her existence, that she regrets you.
01:09:26.560 --> 01:09:27.760
Think twice.
01:09:28.800 --> 01:09:31.520
Even if you feel that way, it's okay.
01:09:31.760 --> 01:09:36.079
Do you need to shout it from the rooftops so that your children can see it one day on the internet?
01:09:36.720 --> 01:09:37.039
No.
01:09:38.079 --> 01:09:42.800
Think about the think about the damage you're doing to your children when you say that.
01:09:43.840 --> 01:09:46.319
I guess that would be my final thoughts.
01:09:46.640 --> 01:09:47.279
All right.
01:09:47.600 --> 01:09:51.600
Well, on that note, that's the end of this one on the Clancy effect.
01:09:51.840 --> 01:10:00.479
So I'm sure we'll be back with uh more great content, whether it's on Clancy, or I know we got a couple episodes teed up on uh tipping culture.
01:10:00.560 --> 01:10:01.840
We're gonna tackle that one.
01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:04.800
I know I'm really looking forward to tomorrow's episode.
01:10:04.960 --> 01:10:06.720
Is AI gonna kill us all?
01:10:06.880 --> 01:10:11.359
Uh, got a lot of thoughts on that one, so that should be a uh powder keg.
01:10:11.520 --> 01:10:14.399
Uh so with that, you know, give us a five-star review.
01:10:14.560 --> 01:10:17.119
Uh, give us some likes, leave some comments.
01:10:17.279 --> 01:10:19.760
Uh, anything you got, we're all for it.
01:10:19.920 --> 01:10:23.039
And I know I'll turn it over to you for your uh final here.
01:10:23.600 --> 01:10:24.479
Absolutely, guys.
01:10:24.640 --> 01:10:32.880
Like you said, give us a five-star review, whether you're listening over on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast from, leave a comment down below.
01:10:33.039 --> 01:10:37.600
Always we're always open to letting us know as well what topics you'd like us to cover.
01:10:38.079 --> 01:10:43.199
And uh, yeah, for me, God bless.
01:10:43.520 --> 01:10:44.399
Shift out.