Conversations - The Book Graveyard & Liminal Spaces

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Hello, everyone, Welcome back to the Guide to Gothics series,
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the premiere Gothic show on the Internet, the best, the
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one and only, with me as always my co host
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Eric from The Paperback Warrior Haldy, and today we also
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have a special guest, our friend Chris from Liminal Spaces.
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Yes, glad to be on you guys, finally made it
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to the coolest channel on book Tube.
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That you say, that's all the guys not once.
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Well, you are also on the the coolest podcast on
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the podcast distributors. Because if you're watching this on YouTube,
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you're watching it on the Book Graveyard, and you're listening
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to it on a podcast, you're listening to The Paperback Warrior.
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This might be my first podcast then excellent.
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Yeah, So what's going on, fellas today we're talking gothics.
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Yeah, we're continuing our Guide to Gothics trying to find
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the best Gothic novel out there. We're searching high and low.
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Nick and I found a couple. We found a couple
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of gothics that are really really good. We found a
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lot of stinkers. But Chris and do you have a
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lot of experience with Gothics.
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No, I've read dafting to why. I don't know if
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you guys consider her a gothic writer, and then of
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course like all the early early like like Jane Eyre
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and all those those kind of early gothics, But no,
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not the seventies stuff, not at all.
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Okay, Yeah, I think yeah, I think we mostly concentrate
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on the sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties gothics, which you know,
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you sort of get lumped in with that trashy category
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of you know, trashy romance novels, trash jacks.
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I read a ton of Shirley Jackson. Yeah, absolutely love her.
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Yeah, yeah, I think that's more Nick. Would you say
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it's more like gothic horror maybe.
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Yeah, yeah, I would consider that gothic horror. I guess
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the distinction that we've started making in doing these episodes
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is that there is a Gothic suspense and then there's
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a gothic horror, the kind they're kind of separate. I mean,
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that's I think that's our take so far.
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Okay.
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Yeah. It's interesting because whenever I looked before, I realized
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that you can talk to people on the Internet and
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and there's people that share interests. I was kind of
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trying to create a history of horror in my own collection,
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and it was always strange to me that it would
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go po Lovecraft and then jump maybe mentioned Shirley Jackson,
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and then jump all the way to Stephen King, and
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it seemed like there was an entire era of horror
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that was being ignored with these So to me, they've
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always been very interesting. That's why the Minute started talking
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about him. When he was doing the baggable Gothics and
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that kind of stuff, I was. I was on board
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because I've just been so interested in this in this era.
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It's called is it bag Worthy? And it's trademarked Chris.
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Oh okay, See that's why I didn't say it. I
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was afraid of getting sued.
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Be careful these days. That's right for the money, very litigious,
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I've heard, all right.
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So we're always bragging that we're the only ones out
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here talking about this stuff, but since the last episode,
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we've run across a few kindred spirits out there. So
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I just wanted to share that. I wanted to share
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that there's a Facebook group. There's a Facebook group called
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Vintage Gothic and Romance Novels, and they post pictures of
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the covers, which is what you usually see like on Instagram,
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but I found that on this group that the people
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are actually talking about the content. Also, people will talk
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about the reviews, or they'll give reviews, talk about the authors,
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other books they liked, et cetera. So I thought, if
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anyone is out there listening and you want to you've
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got a Facebook account, you want to learn more, that's
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a great resource, and I will put a link for
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it down in the description.
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Awesome, I have a Facebook I'm gonna go find it.
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Speaking of which, one of the members of that group
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that always posts there is his name is Adrian Griffiths,
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and he also has a YouTube channel. Is a YouTube
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channel and all he shows is Gothics and it's very
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is a very amusing delivery. It's kind of he loves it,
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but he also will take jabs at its pretty humorous.
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And I will also put a link for his channel
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down in the description. And Eric, we found a book,
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and I believe you picked it up.
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Yes, there is a book which I wasn't aware of
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until you've had mentioned as you make always ago by
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Lori Page and the title of it is Gothic Romance Wave,
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A Critical History of the mass market novels, and I
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think she's covering like nineteen sixties through the nineteen nineties,
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which is the peak of Gothic paperback craze. From what
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I can see, I've got the electronic version, so there's
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no artwork. But that's okay because sometimes I really want
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to get into the analysis of the genre, and I
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think she kind of takes a look at a deeper
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analysis at the novels, what the appeal of them really
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is in terms of mystery, suspense, romance, and then also
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you know, the artwork. Like I said, there's no artwork
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in the electric electronic version. I'm not sure about the
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physical version of it, but it looks like it's to
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be a great book. I haven't read it yet, but
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it's on my to be read piled this year.
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Yeah. When I was looking that book up, the physical copies,
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I think they're out of print, so they're like fifty
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bucks right off the bat. And I believe that it
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was published in Europe. I think it's from the UK too,
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so they're all over there. So you got to pay
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for that international shipping if you're over here in North America.
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So yeah, we haven't got there yet I would. I
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definitely want to copy, especially because if it's an in
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depth like you said, it's in depth analysis of it,
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and it's not just pictures of the covers, which is beautiful.
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I mean that's cool too, there's nothing wrong with that,
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But yeah, sometimes I want to know more.
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Sometimes I'm afraid that the artwork is more loved than
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the contents of the book.
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On this in this genre, yeah, yeah, yeah, we run
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into that quite a bit. There's a couple of Facebook
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groups that I'm part of where you'll have these publishers,
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like you know, like Brash Books or Cutting Edge Books,
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where they'll come in and they'll put like ten fifteen
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books together in one huge ebook and you're getting like
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ten fifteen books for like ten dollars. But people complain
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about the album or the artwork being AI or something.
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I think, think about the content that you're you're getting
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ten to fifteen vintage books, like, oh well, I wouldn't
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buy that because it has AI artwork. It's not about
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the artwork. It's about the contents, like what's inside the count.
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But people get hung up on artwork, and I get it,
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Like Dick said, I get it. They're pretty they're some
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of these gothic art covers are just amazing.
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To look at.
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But you can, like you said, you can get that
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on Instagram, TikTok, you can get that from a lot
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of different sources. But the analysis, the commentary on the
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genre is what fascinates me.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, the paintings are incredible. I do miss the I
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don't like new book covers as much as the old
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no way.
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Yeah, I mean it makes sense because they're not making
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any kind of money on printing books now and back
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then it was a major industry ord to pay for
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a real artist to paint stuff. Yeah, if you do it,
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that's like ninety percent of your budget.
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Yep, exactly, stuff out there, That's what I'm saying it is.
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Yeah, all right, so you guys ready to talk to
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the Dark Tower?
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Absolutely behind me, Yeah.
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All right, So to the Dark Tower. It says that
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it's written by Laida bell nap Long, which according to
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my sources the Internet, Yeah, it is actually Frank bell
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nap Long, Yeah, Weird Tales author friend of H. P. Lovecraft.
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Yeah, it's it's so interesting because I this is probably
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obvious to you guys, but I was shocked to see
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I'm so used to through all my classes and everything,
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I was very much used to women taking on men's
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names in order to sell more books in an industry
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that really wasn't that worked against them. It's interesting to
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see a genre where so many men have taken on
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female names in order to sell more books. And yeah,
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I just uh it was. It interesting to me And
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probably one of my favorite parts of this entire book
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is that he dedicated the book from from himself to
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himself and he said, to the untiring help and teachings
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of my husband, Frank Belknap Long And if that's if
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so he if this is a pseudonym of Frank, I
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don't know. I don't know what he's playing at there,
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trying to give himself a little push up there.
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It's amazing, I know, I love it.
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It is. It reminds me. I think I read an
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Alistair McLean book where he wrote under a pseudonym and
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then it had a quote from him on the front
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of him the book.
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Was Oh my gosh, Yeah, that that made me laugh
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because I turned that first page because I think I
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asked right when we talked about this, Nick, I was like, Nick,
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is this Frank and you were like, yes, from everything
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I can tell it is.
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And I went and looked and I think, think, you're right,
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it's you know it said he wrote eight or nine
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Gothics through this period of his life, and and yeah,
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this is him, and that message was from him to him.
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You can't.
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Yeah, it can be confusing, though, I see. I was
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looking up reviews of this before we get started, and
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there's people who weren't sure. They were like, is this
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Frank Belnablong? Is it really his wife? Because if you
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look back at Dorothy Daniels, like the last episode we did,
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she was also married to a pulp She was married
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to a pulp author, Norman Daniels, but she actually wrote
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her own books. I can see how it would be
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like confusing if you know something like that exists and
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then you run across this and you're like, is this
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the same case where his wife was writing it? But
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I think in this certain case, yeah, it was Frank
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Bell that blow.
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He has a pretty specific writing style that I'm going
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to jump into in a bit. But yeah, I think
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I think this is Frank. I really do.
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Yeah. That that Werewolf book he did. I don't remember
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what it's called, right, now, but it's exactly the same.
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It's Frank being up long.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, what do you guys know about Frank Ben Nick Blong.
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I just know he was part of Lovecraft circle with
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Robert Block and Clark Ashton Smith and so forth. But
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my only my only experience with the author was his
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nineteen seventy book Monster from out of Time, which was
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published by a Popular Library. And I think a lot
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of people get that book because it has Frank Frazetta's
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cover art, which is amazing on that on that book,
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But that was my only experience with the author, and
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that book was lousy. It was really bad, and I
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didn't like it. And that was published in nineteen seventy
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and I think this book we're talking about today is
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in nineteen sixty nine, if I'm not mistaken. But yeah,
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what can you what can you ask tell me about
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this author?
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Well, yeah, I know, like you said, he wrote for
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for Weird Tales and he was like close friends with HB. Lovecraft,
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And I thought that was really interesting after I read that.
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The Whrewolf book, it's one of the Frankenstein horror series
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books which he wrote. Later on, he wrote it and
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towards the end of the eighties, I think, and he
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lived to be like ninety some years old, so he's
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around for a long time and it's still working. So yeah,
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So he was close friends with Lovecraft, and which really
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surprised me because Lovecraft was a real stickler when it
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come to when it comes to writing, like he you know,
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he didn't have patience for novices and and this stuff.
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I don't know. The two books that I've read so
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far by him have been I don't know. I guess
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I was kind of surprised because it was pretty basic.
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Yeah. He So I came across him because of science fiction.
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He wrote a lot of science fiction, and he's hit
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and miss. But I think that that this is an
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interesting time for all not sixty nine, but way back
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HP Lovecraft and all that, where people were writing, uh
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and trying to make a living doing it, which means
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people were putting out all kinds of stuff as quickly
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as they could. So a lot of these writers, I
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think you'll find our real hit and miss back in
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the day because they were they were so they were
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trying to create so much content in order to make
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enough money to live. So I think he falls under that.
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For me, That's what I've always thought of for him,
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is is this going to be a good Frank Belknap
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long or is this going to be just, you know,
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something he whipped off so that he could get his
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paycheck for the week. Yeah, but this is much later
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than that.
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Of course.
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That's a good point. And yeah, to be fair, I
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haven't read any of the Weird Tales stuff. I don't
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think that.
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Yeah you got me a Frank Belknap long book, Nick,
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that haven't I haven't cracked yet. That looks like it's
255
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that Weird Tales era.
256
00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:55.000
Yeah, yeah, one of the science fiction ones.
257
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Yeah, it looks interesting.
258
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Yeah, it makes me very curious. I know that the
259
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next thing I read by him, I'm definitely just gonna
260
00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:04.519
go right back to the beginning and you see what
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it is. And I do know that he had a
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hard time with money, like in the middle of his
263
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life and towards the end that he was not doing well.
264
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So yeah, maybe he was just doing as much as possible,
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as fast as possible. Rough on him. I'm sorry, Frankie.
266
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All right. So yeah, this this book to the Dark Tower,
267
00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:32.000
I was published by Lancer in nineteen sixty nine. This
268
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is his cover art. I'm just gonna we'll put it
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up on screen. The cover art is by Lou Marchetti.
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He has no Lou doesn't ring a bell.
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Oh yeah, yeah yeah I know that name.
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That house back there reminds me of the Norman Bates,
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the guy that that mystery is the theater guy.
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This is killing me.
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He's Hitgecock. Cut that Alfred Hitchcock. Have you seen the
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Alfred Hitchcock Presents horror novels.
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So anyone who can't see Christians did the formation of
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a belly? Yeah?
279
00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:21.080
You know the guy the the Alfred Hitchcock novels. If
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you look at that house back there, it looks like
281
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the exact same artist.
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Yeah, the Alfred Hitchcock presents like thirteen Tails of Terror
283
00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:30.080
and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.
284
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Yeah, I'm not going to get up, but but yeah,
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you put what on the screen. There's one where he
286
00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:39.399
is the house where his the house becomes his face
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and it looks like this artist.
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Sorry, Nick, is it a magnum or lancer?
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00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:47.480
Mine's magnum, Mine's lancer, Mine's lancer?
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00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:50.840
Oh really yeah, mine's magnum? Is that crazy?
291
00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:56.039
Well it's the isn't Magnum a part of Lancer. The Magnim.
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00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:02.600
Magnum was a prestige Yeah, mine, says a prestige books,
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00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:04.799
which is a Magnum.
294
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What year did your just come out?
295
00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:09.919
This is nineteen sixty nine.
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00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:15.080
Yeahs called it copyright, So maybe I'm maybe it's incorrect.
297
00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:17.480
Yeah no, it says Lancer.
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00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:20.240
Yeah mine, that's the very top magnum. Isn't that crazy?
299
00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:23.039
That is crazy because it's the exact same cover. They
300
00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:27.039
just replaced the Lancer with a with a Magnimum on yours.
301
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:27.919
I have no idea.
302
00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:29.799
Maybe different country.
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00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:32.799
Does your say never before published on the bottom?
304
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:33.559
It does?
305
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:37.360
Okay, so wait a minute. So Lancer says it's never
306
00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:39.639
before published, and Magnum says it's never before.
307
00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:42.200
No, no, no, I have the Lancer and does not
308
00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:44.600
say that. It says eat and unabridged.
309
00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:46.600
But look mine does Nick, the one you sent me,
310
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The Lancer you sent me says never.
311
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:50.360
You the first edition and I kept the second.
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00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:53.080
Yeah, but look, vine's coming apart. I'm gonna have to
313
00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:56.799
put some noody on that and no, dick it back together.
314
00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:57.960
It doesn't matter.
315
00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:01.159
It's the hilarious.
316
00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:02.039
Right, it's the content we already said that.
317
00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:07.000
The reason, so the reason we picked this particular book
318
00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:12.319
was someone left a comment on my the other Frank
319
00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:15.720
billn Up video that I did that said that this
320
00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:20.680
book supposedly has cosmic horror in it, like that it
321
00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:25.480
flirts with cosmic horror like love crafty and stuff. Now
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00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:27.559
they didn't say that they read the book and said
323
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that it did.
324
00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:31.839
They just said supposedly, I believe that there are So
325
00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:34.799
this was more horror.
326
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Than I expected. I will say that.
327
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And again I'm coming from like like Jane Eyre and
328
00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:44.559
Wuthering Heights and you know, Jane Austen and on through
329
00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:49.880
Carmila and all of that. This this was there was
330
00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:52.599
romance in it, but it was This was more horror.
331
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Than I truly expected.
332
00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:58.200
I from what you guys have talked about this, this
333
00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:04.640
seemed like it had some real stuff going on. But
334
00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:07.200
I don't. I didn't see any cosmic horror that. I
335
00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:10.680
saw some colty stuff, but not not cosmic horror.
336
00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:15.119
All right, well, let's uh, let's let's get to it.
337
00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:20.200
So the book starts with a prologue chapter. It's from
338
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the perspective of a young a young boy with a
339
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big head and he's got round eyes and his and
340
00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:29.799
his mouth is too far wide, so he's I don't
341
00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:33.759
I don't know why. It's just a freakish, freakish little boy.
342
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:37.319
And he stumbles upon a ceremony while he's out in
343
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the woods, and it looks like there is a coven
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of witches surrounding like a black kettle. So I you know,
345
00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:51.200
right off, not not good, not a good start for me,
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because it was so cartoonish. I mean, he might as
347
00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:57.720
well just had him wearing the black hats and green
348
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face and warts on their noses, you know, Oh the witches. Yeah,
349
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:05.079
like that's surrounded around the blank kettle.
350
00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:09.359
Yeah, so willy willy at the beginning of this, And
351
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it took me a minute to figure this out, because
352
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I'll be honest, I read this first chapter and I
353
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:16.799
was I was like, I'm I'm I'm calling it quits.
354
00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:23.000
I did. I really disliked this this first chapter. Willie
355
00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:28.680
is actually a grown man, and he is mentally handicapped.
356
00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:35.400
Is and and and Frank decided to write this from
357
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the stream of consciousness perspective of this this person, and
358
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he might have done a good job. I have no
359
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:48.400
idea stream of consciousness is not an easy writing style.
360
00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:52.720
But I'll tell you what. I had to reread this
361
00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:56.680
like two times to figure out what these connections were
362
00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.480
to this to that. And that's that's kind of what
363
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:02.480
I was talking about with being able to tell that
364
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this is probably Frank. Frank has a writing style that
365
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:13.920
for me, he likes to tease what's happening before he
366
00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:18.920
tells me what's happening. And it really shuts me down.
367
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.880
Because I said this in a video or maybe it
368
00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:26.599
was with Bart. I like, when you read prose and
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the prose disappears and you see the moving images in
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your head, right, That's what I look for. And that
371
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:36.319
doesn't mean that we can't have purple prose. I like
372
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:40.680
purple prose sometimes that makes the visions in your head
373
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even better. But this I had to pay so much
374
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attention line by line. I had to stop and read read.
375
00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:49.559
I was like, okay, now what are we talking about?
376
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:53.799
And I realized, Okay, he's very artistically trying to put
377
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the reader in the head of a person that is
378
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mentally handicapped. And while I applaud the effort, I just
379
00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:06.160
I couldn't. I mean, I was so worried after this
380
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:08.279
first chapter. I was like, oh my god, this is
381
00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:13.680
going to be absolutely terrible. Yeah, the witches. I didn't.
382
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:18.440
It's weird because I felt like everything was cartoonized, because
383
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:25.359
that's what Frank assumed the head of or the consciousness
384
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:27.720
of a person that was mentally handicapped would be like.
385
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:30.480
Was was how I took it.
386
00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:33.519
Yeah, well we don't. I mean, it doesn't say that
387
00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:36.480
he's mentally handicapped.
388
00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:36.319
It doesn't.
389
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:40.680
Yeah, but until later at the beginning, he is it's
390
00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:42.240
described as a young boy.
391
00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:46.240
Right, yeah, yeah, I just that's kind of where where
392
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:48.799
I went. And then later when they're like, oh my god,
393
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:51.519
we found this dead body and they described this man,
394
00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:54.720
I was like, okay, that was but that's that's that's
395
00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:56.440
kind of what I figured as I was reading. But
396
00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:59.880
you're right, there's no direct hint, there's no He just
397
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.799
rows you into the chaos that is this this person's mind.
398
00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.680
And I was like, okay, this is this is a
399
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:10.160
lot of work. This really is a lot of work
400
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:15.480
for a prologue. So yeah.
401
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.519
So so the the boy realizes that he's he's seen
402
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:20.839
something that he shouldn't have seen, and he runs through
403
00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:23.279
the woods, the first of many people running through the
404
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:27.000
woods and uh, so we don't know if he's being
405
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.920
followed or not of you know, even what what's going on.
406
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.480
Like you said, Chris, it's very what the hell is happening?
407
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:36.680
And he comes upon a house. The woods open up.
408
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:39.240
There's a house, and he's like, oh, there's my doctor's house.
409
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:42.880
And he's a good guy. I'm gonna go tell him.
410
00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:46.680
Before he gets to the front door, a shadowy figure
411
00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:50.400
drops from a tree. Oh kind of carry yeah, right,
412
00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:53.559
and he uh the shadow figure runs up to the porch,
413
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:56.720
leaves something, leave something on the porch, and rings the
414
00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:59.759
doorbell and runs back away, runs back to the tree.
415
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.079
Not so scary, very.
416
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:10.839
Very comical, very cartoonist. And so the doctor goes to
417
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:14.279
the door zone and there he looks down there's the item.
418
00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:16.519
He picks it up, looks at it, gets angry. He
419
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:19.440
throws it and it lands next to the little boy.
420
00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:22.799
I'm gonna I still consider him the little boy, even
421
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:26.240
though I know he's an adult. So it lands next
422
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:29.400
to him. My question to you guys is what did
423
00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:30.559
you think the item was.
424
00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:36.960
I thought, well, there's two things, so I thought that
425
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:40.319
I thought that he had left a bag of poop on.
426
00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:43.240
The forgot to light it.
427
00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:45.440
Yeah, he didn't light it, and then he picked it
428
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:50.480
up and goes and throws it. What was so horrendous
429
00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:54.079
in this writing of this this prologue? To me, it
430
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:55.839
was horrendous. I read this to my wife and she
431
00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:58.480
was saying, well, it sounds fine to me. But the
432
00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:02.519
doctor throws this thing out into the lawn and it
433
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:06.599
lands with such heavy force that it snaps a dry
434
00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:09.440
twig up and it flies up and hits Willy right
435
00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:12.160
in the face. And I'm thinking, this thing is it
436
00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:14.920
a cinder block? Like? How hard did you throw this
437
00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:16.599
thing out in the yard for this thing to fly
438
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:19.799
up and hit Willie? But it's just the first of
439
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:25.279
many signs from the author that he's over descriptive. In
440
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:29.240
that same scene, the doctor turns around and slams the
441
00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:32.200
door so loud that it sounded like a pistol shot
442
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:37.279
in the night. Like it this isn't necessary. But going
443
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:39.279
back to your point though your question, I thought it
444
00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:41.240
was a bag of poop that he threw.
445
00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:42.359
He really did.
446
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:46.880
Yeah, well once once he threw it, didn't didn't will
447
00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:48.400
you pick it up and look at it?
448
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:51.440
I think description of it?
449
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.599
Yeah, the guy down he sees it, and then he
450
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:56.880
sees the guy dropped down from the tree again, and
451
00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:59.519
he grabs the doll and he starts running.
452
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:00.880
I thought it was a voodoo doll.
453
00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:03.400
Yeah, he looks at the doll first, he looks down
454
00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:04.240
and sees the doll.
455
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:04.799
Yeah.
456
00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:06.519
Because this is going to go back to what Chris
457
00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:10.160
is saying about the stream of consciousness. From Willie's perspective,
458
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:13.440
Willie looks down at the doll, and there's a line
459
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:16.279
in there where Willie's thinking, well, I know it can't
460
00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:19.279
be alive, or it must not be alive because it's
461
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:21.880
not moving, And you're thinking, well, why would he think
462
00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:23.880
that a doll is alive? Is he think it's like
463
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:27.960
a baby or something. But from Willie's perspective, because Willie's
464
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:30.039
thought is a little bit different than ours, his thoughts,
465
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:32.279
he's looking at this little doll and thinking that it
466
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:35.400
could be animate, like this thing could actually move, which
467
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:37.119
goes back to exactly what you were saying, Chris, with
468
00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:40.319
his streams of consciousness, like it's hard to as the reader,
469
00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:43.000
it's hard to put your mind in Willie's mind, and
470
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:44.880
realized that that's what the author wants you to do.
471
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:47.960
So when Willie looks down. He sees this doll with
472
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:50.480
pins in it. I think it says like two in
473
00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:52.880
the chest, two in the throat. But he looks at
474
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:55.079
the face and he recognizes the face of the doll
475
00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:58.279
as being a beautiful woman that he saw somewhere else
476
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:02.039
with the doctor. With the doctor, and and then he
477
00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:03.839
picks up the doll and starts running with it. But
478
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:06.920
you're like, from Willie's perspective, it's like, why would he
479
00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:08.920
think that this thing could be alive. It's just a
480
00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:12.319
dumb doll, right, But from Willie's mind, it could be alive.
481
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:14.640
Like That's what kind of threw me off. It was like,
482
00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:17.880
what's going on? Like you said, Chris, I had to
483
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:20.000
read that like two or three times, like what is
484
00:26:20.119 --> 00:26:21.200
what is he talking about?
485
00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:23.000
Yeah?
486
00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:25.000
I thought he was a six year old kid, That's
487
00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:27.000
what I.
488
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:28.680
I did it first. There was some line though that
489
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:31.119
that clued me on, and I don't I'm not able
490
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:34.000
to pull it out now, but there was some line
491
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:37.559
that clued me. So I I about four pages in
492
00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:42.920
was like, oh, I see, and the murder was pretty intense.
493
00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:47.240
I thought he got stabbed in the back, but it
494
00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:50.839
turns out it was like like a dart or something.
495
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:53.519
But yeah, that I was. I was shocked when when like,
496
00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:57.519
straight up he was murdered, because, like I said, I
497
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:01.559
didn't expect this level of violence when I think of
498
00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:07.319
Gothic romances, and again I'm a newbie. I don't think
499
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:11.119
of yeah, murder after murder, cults murdering people right like,
500
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.440
and there's a couple in here. So I was. I
501
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:17.880
was pretty shocked. I was, And I think that starting
502
00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:23.079
with that chaos might have been smart of him, because
503
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:27.000
once I got to a past that prelude, I was like, oh,
504
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:31.079
thank god, because then it started to kind of read
505
00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:35.079
kind of like a normal story that I could just
506
00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:38.119
lay back and have the world overtake me, but every
507
00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:40.960
once in a while, like it took me a while
508
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.400
to suss out that this woman had gone to Spain,
509
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:46.559
I think, and gone into a cave and was attacked
510
00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:49.640
by a presence. Like the way he presents this stuff,
511
00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:52.880
you're just like what, what what? And then and then
512
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:55.799
you have to go backwards and it's a lot of
513
00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:59.960
work to just for something he could have just told
514
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:02.240
us and would have been very enjoyable, because I think
515
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:05.319
I think the plot of this was really fun. I do.
516
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:09.119
I I had fun with this plot. So I think
517
00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:11.519
that the the the one thing holding this back is
518
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:12.359
his writing style.
519
00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:13.079
I really do.
520
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:17.160
Yeah, it's on the bush at the beginning of that
521
00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:19.640
thing that he sees fall out of the out of
522
00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:24.000
the branches or the trees. Like. Again, from his perspective,
523
00:28:24.039 --> 00:28:28.079
he thinks it's a big toad. Yeah, like some gigantic toad.
524
00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:31.279
It just fell out of the sky. But from his perspective,
525
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:34.720
he's just that's just what the way he thinks, right, Yeah,
526
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:36.880
But anyway, he picks up the doll and starts running
527
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:40.039
off and then Nick, something happens to him. I guess
528
00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:40.880
he he.
529
00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:43.000
Gets Yeah, he just feels something in his back. He said,
530
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:45.200
it feels like a rock. And then he and then
531
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:48.200
it's like he passes out. It doesn't he doesn't say
532
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:49.799
that they killed him, right, just then.
533
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:53.079
Oh, you're right, you're right. He just there's like explosions
534
00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:56.240
in his in his his vision or head. Yeah, and
535
00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:58.839
then he passes out. Yeah. I swore he got stabbed
536
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:02.359
because of the he felt something in his back. I
537
00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:04.720
was like, oh my god, somebody snuck up and stabbed him.
538
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:08.680
But yeah, it was scary, but yeah, I just I mean,
539
00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:14.119
it's weird because if he could have somehow given let
540
00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:18.480
us know what he was doing, I found asking myself
541
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:21.440
thinking that to myself a lot, like if he could
542
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:24.319
just somehow tell us what he's doing, then we could
543
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:27.079
be along for the ride and enjoy it. But he's
544
00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:29.680
just doing things without telling us what he's doing. So
545
00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:32.559
we have to figure it out and then go backwards
546
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:35.200
with that information and try to get it again. And
547
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:38.359
this is a thin read, and it's it's got huge
548
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:41.599
type so it's not a long read. But I had
549
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:44.599
to reread sections two or three times so that I
550
00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:47.240
felt like I really knew what was going on.
551
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:51.759
I will say that that's usually the case with prologues,
552
00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:55.200
is that you are just kind of thrown stuff that's true.
553
00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:59.880
You're right, yeah, so that was a crazy throw.
554
00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:02.440
It was all over one.
555
00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:04.680
And I'll be honest with you, I was totally in
556
00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:06.799
right now. I was totally into it, like oh, even
557
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:09.279
though it was confusing to me, I was like, okay,
558
00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:11.640
I'm into this, like this is this is I like this.
559
00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:17.240
So the second chapter, we meet our protagonist, the archaeologist
560
00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:22.359
Joan Lambert. She's driving to glenn Oaks Kentucky to visit
561
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:28.000
her fellow archaeologist slash museum manager Bosts slash protective boyfriend,
562
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:33.599
doctor Wilfred Allen. Yeah. Unfortunately, this isn't a week long
563
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:38.920
lover getaway. She's going there for a purpose. He has
564
00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:42.480
invited some some other people along because Joan has been
565
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:47.720
having issues the other people. I love how it's described
566
00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:53.519
who the other people are. It's he's it says it's
567
00:30:53.559 --> 00:31:00.880
a an internationally renowned psychiatrist, a psychical re search scholar,
568
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:04.400
which is a ghost hunter back in nineteen sixty nine.
569
00:31:05.319 --> 00:31:09.079
There's an anthropologist whose focus of study was East African
570
00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:14.640
tribal shaman incantations. And then there's some like Dougey Hawser
571
00:31:14.759 --> 00:31:19.720
type young And you're like, well, that's such a strange
572
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:22.920
grouping of people because it describes who the people are
573
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:25.200
going to be there before it says what her issue
574
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:29.000
even is. If you say Chris, he tells you before
575
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:32.319
he tells you Yeah, it's very Yeah, it's very distracting.
576
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:34.880
So she's like, who, why, why are these people there?
577
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:41.039
So apparently sixteen months prior to this little getaway here,
578
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:49.359
Joan was on an archaeological expedition in the Pyrenees Mountain range, Yeah,
579
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:52.599
which is at the border of France and Spain. And
580
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:59.680
while she was exploring a cave, she is attacked. And
581
00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:02.400
this is where it gets like, what what's going on?
582
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:08.839
It's like it's described as something organic, right, Like it's
583
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:09.720
a real thing.
584
00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:11.960
I wonder if this is what they were referring to
585
00:32:11.960 --> 00:32:13.079
as the cosmic horror.
586
00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:16.319
I think I think it is. And then and then
587
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:19.920
it's like, but it also connected. It connected to her
588
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:23.759
in a mental capacity. Yeah, you're like, oh, it's this
589
00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:24.920
supernatural thing.
590
00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:30.039
And it happened in the dark, she could see nothing. Yeah,
591
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:34.880
and this presence like attached to her and it comes
592
00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:36.920
out constantly. And one of the things that I liked
593
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:38.640
this is the part where I was really actually kind
594
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:42.559
of getting involved after I realized that what was going on,
595
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:46.680
because she went there to study the concept of a
596
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:50.119
which cult that like was from way way way back,
597
00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:55.920
like prehistory witch cult, which was simultaneously interesting to me
598
00:32:55.960 --> 00:32:59.680
but also slightly laughable to think of, like cave paintings
599
00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:03.720
with which is with pointy hats on broomstays like very
600
00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:08.279
traditional witch imagery all the way uh back in time
601
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:09.480
that she's studying here.
602
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:13.599
Yeah, I you know, I did a little research here
603
00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:21.319
and surprisingly Frank Frank Bill nep Long was was correct. Yeah,
604
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:27.359
there is a there's a rich history of witchcraft and
605
00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:30.960
Satanism in the the Pyrenees Mountains.
606
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:31.799
Okay.
607
00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:35.920
Uh and actually the the area is referred to as
608
00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:37.839
Land of the Goat.
609
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:45.599
Okay, but that has to be after Christianity because the
610
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:49.960
concept of witchcraft didn't exist. Well, I guess it would
611
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:52.279
be good. It's weird we're looking at it through a
612
00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:56.359
lens where because Satanism definitely not satan was would have
613
00:33:56.440 --> 00:33:59.799
to exist after Christianity too, but like maybe like he
614
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.400
worship I guess yeah.
615
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:05.519
Yeah, yeah, just something something that's evil. And I think
616
00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:09.760
that how interesting there is I when I'm in the research,
617
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:14.880
they said that that the witches weren't necessarily human beings
618
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:18.639
practicing witchcraft, but it was actually it could possibly be
619
00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:25.079
a supernatural entity. So that this character, this antagonist in
620
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:29.880
this that she saw was actually from folklore.
621
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:34.800
Wow, so she's so he's responding to something that was
622
00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:38.800
being studied at the time. It sounds like in actuality.
623
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:39.719
Interesting cool.
624
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:43.599
Yeah, so I found did the research.
625
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:47.880
Yeah, yeah, him and me Eric, him and me, give.
626
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:50.360
Me kind Seriously, I wouldn't even have thought to look
627
00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:53.039
it up. I just went, that's ridiculous and moved on.
628
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:56.960
Oh yeah, I found this book that was just published
629
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:02.239
in twenty twenty four about this exact thing. It's called
630
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:06.880
Land of the Goat, Witchcraft and the Pyrenees by Julia
631
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:11.840
Carrera Carreras Torret, who actually lives lives there, lives in
632
00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:16.199
the area. Yeah, it looked really really cool, beautiful, beautiful
633
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:22.199
drawings on it. So I found the the description of
634
00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:25.800
the monster when she first runs into it. So it
635
00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:29.920
says then the shape itself took on a form and
636
00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:33.480
substance and the depths of her mind and pinging on
637
00:35:33.639 --> 00:35:37.039
her inner vision as a tall, cloaked figure with burning
638
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:40.320
eyes hovering on the rim of her consciousness. It was
639
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:44.360
a shadowy figure, neither entirely beast nor man, a hawk
640
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:50.920
faced figure with dangling, brightly gleaming talons. Cool. So that's
641
00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:53.639
what she that's what when she first runs into it
642
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:58.159
in the caves. That's what she sees or perceives, I guess,
643
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:00.840
because it's in her mind. Yeah, it's all dark.
644
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:03.760
You can sense that weird tales writing in that, just
645
00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:05.480
in that little bit that you did there.
646
00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:06.000
I can, I can.
647
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:09.360
I mean that that sounds like it could be Algernon Blackwood.
648
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:11.119
It sounds like it could be a lot of those
649
00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:17.280
early weird tales guys. So yeah, I think that it's weird.
650
00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:21.760
Sometimes his stuff works, but it's strange because in that case,
651
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:24.960
a little bit of vague writing is called for. Like
652
00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:29.519
right away, I'm thinking of an Egyptian god. I can't
653
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:30.079
think of which one.
654
00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:31.320
Which Egyptian god.
655
00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:32.840
Has the the hawk face?
656
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:34.079
Is it Toth? I don't know, but.
657
00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:39.719
Anyway that that kind of writing can can be serviced
658
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:43.639
by vagueness. But just telling us the story that she
659
00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:47.159
she went to this mountain range and was studying and
660
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:52.400
this thing attached herself, he he, he has her being
661
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:59.199
terrified by this creature before we know what the creature is.
662
00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:02.320
And I think it does a disservice to the writing
663
00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:05.559
because if you just constantly throw your writers into or
664
00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:08.440
your readers into confusion, then they're not going to have
665
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:10.679
a good time. There are times for it, and there
666
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:12.400
are times art for it. I gotta stop harping on this.
667
00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:15.920
I'm so sorry, guys. I actually really did enjoy reading
668
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:19.480
this book. I liked it. But but yes, I have
669
00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:22.199
some complaints about his writing style.
670
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:27.280
Did Sometimes you don't realize that how you really felt
671
00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:30.760
about something until you started talking about it. You're like, man,
672
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:32.719
I really enjoyed this book. And then you start to
673
00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:34.639
review it or whatever in our case, and you're like,
674
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:36.159
you know what, there's a lot of there's a lot
675
00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:38.519
of holes here, there's a lot of but you know
676
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:40.639
it might not necessarily matter if you enjoyed it. That's
677
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:41.599
really all that matters.
678
00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:44.440
After that prologue, and then I'll be honest, I was
679
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:47.039
still confused while she was driving there in the car,
680
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:51.199
and then I started to get into it. Yeah, I
681
00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:53.840
really enjoyed a lot most of this book.
682
00:37:55.679 --> 00:37:57.800
I'm still I'm still there. I'm still with you. I'm
683
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:00.960
still enjoying it. We got about two more chapters of enjoyability.
684
00:38:02.519 --> 00:38:05.440
And then it just hits a brick wall. Okay, So
685
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:11.119
she's driving, she's driving to Kentucky, and when you know it,
686
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:14.159
that monster just appears. The creature appears right there in
687
00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:18.400
the middle of the road. She swears, she crashes gasoline
688
00:38:18.440 --> 00:38:20.920
all over the floor, all over not the floor, all
689
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:26.039
over the road the fore and she crawls out. She
690
00:38:26.119 --> 00:38:28.599
crawls up and she's like, oh my god, I survived.
691
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:30.719
And she's like, oh crap, that thing is still out
692
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:32.840
here with me in the middle of nowhere. She looks
693
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:35.679
over and she sees it standing there, a big shadowy
694
00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:38.679
figure in a robe, and it's got its face is
695
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:41.960
it says, a skull like skull like face, not a
696
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:45.199
hawk face anymore, his skull. And she's like, and I
697
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:48.199
could and I couldn't see his hands because of the road,
698
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:51.480
but I assure you those talons were underneath there. I
699
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:56.320
thought that was kind of funny. Yeah, and so I
700
00:38:56.440 --> 00:38:58.679
love this part is like my favorite because she's like,
701
00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:02.639
she's so terrible find that. She's like, well, I can
702
00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:05.000
either run or I can just light a match and
703
00:39:05.079 --> 00:39:06.039
light this gas.
704
00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:09.159
Lead up from all the day done.
705
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:14.079
Those are two options. And she's like, well, I guess
706
00:39:14.119 --> 00:39:14.559
I'll run.
707
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:19.960
That was a weird choice to even have, like catching
708
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:22.159
it on fire. I just didn't understand, like, she's just
709
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:23.639
going to burn the whole forest down.
710
00:39:26.079 --> 00:39:26.440
Whatever.
711
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:29.559
I'm guessing he was trying to say that she was
712
00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:32.360
at her wits end, but it was pretty a pretty
713
00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:35.039
extreme way to show us that she was at her
714
00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:35.599
wits end.
715
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:37.840
She's dramatic that's for sure.
716
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:38.679
Yeah.
717
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:41.840
So she starts running through the very same woods that
718
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:45.400
we're gonna keep coming back to, and this thing is
719
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:48.480
actually it's coming at her. This thing is coming towards her.
720
00:39:48.760 --> 00:39:51.519
This is a real entity. This is not in her mind.
721
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:55.800
This is a physical entity coming towards her, chasing her
722
00:39:56.119 --> 00:39:58.960
as she runs through through the woods. And so she
723
00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:03.760
runs into a man in a hunting gear who's the sheriff.
724
00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:11.920
She passes out, lucky, and then she wakes up in
725
00:40:11.960 --> 00:40:16.400
her boyfriend's house, doctor Wilfrid Allen. Before we get there there,
726
00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:21.039
there's one chapter that's just kind of inserted in there
727
00:40:21.159 --> 00:40:25.079
awkwardly that just redoes the first chapter over again with
728
00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:30.719
some different characters. The young honeymooning couple run out of
729
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:33.760
gas in the middle of nowhere, the same area they go.
730
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:35.960
They see a man in the woods, so they start
731
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:39.960
walking into the very same woods. Three chapters in a row.
732
00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:44.440
You've got characters walking through these same woods. They come
733
00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:47.320
upon a ceremony. Now they see two robed figures and
734
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:49.719
a naked lady and a dead lady. They throw the
735
00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:51.880
dead lady in the grave. The people are like, ah,
736
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:55.480
run back to their car. They meet another couple whatever,
737
00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:58.440
and then twenty minutes later, both cars are at the
738
00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:02.119
bottom of a ravine. So there's nefarious things going on
739
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:03.079
in the city.
740
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:09.519
This chapter, I know it definitely it's weird because if
741
00:41:09.559 --> 00:41:13.360
you pulled it out, there would be no problem, so
742
00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:17.639
it's it's shoehorned in there. But for me, this was
743
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:18.880
the chapter that made this.
744
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:20.480
Cult very, very, very real.
745
00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:23.480
So I was kind of impressed with this because again
746
00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:29.800
I wasn't expecting. I always expect that the horror in
747
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:32.320
these kind of novels, and this might be an eighteen
748
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:36.480
hundreds thing is going to all be a misunderstanding, because
749
00:41:36.519 --> 00:41:40.760
it often is in the older ones. But this is
750
00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:43.800
no misunderstanding. The minute that there was a body that
751
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:46.840
was sacrificed on the ground, I was like, Okay, this
752
00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:50.400
is a real cult we're dealing with, And that really
753
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:55.519
upped the tension for me for this one. Just I
754
00:41:55.519 --> 00:41:59.920
think it made the bad guys really bad because it
755
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:02.159
first I was like, is this something she brought with
756
00:42:02.199 --> 00:42:06.079
her back from the Pyrenees or is there a cult here?
757
00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:09.599
Like what's happening? And now we've got a cult? And
758
00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:13.960
you know, you read the beginning or the little tagline
759
00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:17.760
here ancient evil drives Joan Lambert across the ocean to
760
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:21.079
a land ruled by witches. And I don't know which
761
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:24.239
across the ocean she's going, Like, is that the Pyrenees
762
00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:26.960
they're discussing or this? But yeah, after this chapter, I
763
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:29.760
was like, Okay, this is this is a real cult
764
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:32.480
this town is a real cult town. So I kind
765
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:33.679
of liked that that chapter.
766
00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:38.679
The I was trying to look it up. There's the
767
00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:40.719
scene where they're walking through the woods and they come
768
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:44.960
up on this ceremony and then there's you know, the
769
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:49.639
sacrifice happening. It's a Roberty Howard Koenan story. Maybe you
770
00:42:49.639 --> 00:42:53.360
guys know which one I'm talking about where and maybe
771
00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:58.159
Across the Black River or something like that, but it's
772
00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:03.119
it's a Roberty Howard scene, yeah, from conand where these
773
00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:04.920
villagers are walking through the woods. They come up on
774
00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:07.559
a scene where they've got a body on the ground
775
00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:11.159
or on a stone, and the body they're doing a
776
00:43:11.239 --> 00:43:14.519
spell and the body turns into a snake from humans
777
00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:14.960
a snake.
778
00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:16.800
Oh No, I don't know that one.
779
00:43:17.079 --> 00:43:19.880
Yeah, I wish I could find it, but but.
780
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:21.239
I haven't read them all yet.
781
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:24.880
It's in one of the Lancer short story. But I
782
00:43:24.920 --> 00:43:28.760
was like, okay, that's Roberty Howard's scene. You know, he
783
00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:32.280
just basically took Roberty Howard's scene and made it, which
784
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:34.960
kind of makes him think, well, this is why maybe
785
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:36.639
been like shoehorn in. He's like, Okay, I really like
786
00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:38.320
that Roberty Howard scene. Let me figure out some way
787
00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:41.199
to get this in the book. And it's just kind
788
00:43:41.239 --> 00:43:44.960
of like out of nowhere. So I don't know, but
789
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:47.480
I just wanted to add that if I find the
790
00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:50.400
name of the story, I'll tell you. Yeah.
791
00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:53.639
Yeah, but I'm not surprised it isn't. It's it's interesting
792
00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:55.159
because I've been reading a lot of that sort of
793
00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:58.840
sorcery stuff, that early weird Tales stuff, and it is
794
00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:02.760
interesting how much they played off each other. Like Roberty
795
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:06.360
Howard's Tower of the Elephant. I don't think what exists
796
00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:10.880
without HP Lovecraft, because it's a Barbarian story that suddenly
797
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:16.760
feels like a Lovecraft cosmic horror story. It just jumps.
798
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:20.559
It's really interesting. And then you got cl Moore. I know, Nick,
799
00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:25.519
you're a big seal More fan. She also is Injurell
800
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:28.320
of Jewelry is like this is a barbarian's tale, but
801
00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:33.679
then it suddenly turns into these these cosmic horror landscapes,
802
00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:35.719
and I think they were all pulling off each other.
803
00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:39.360
So I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's if
804
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:42.000
that's a Robert E. Howard pastiche that he that he
805
00:44:42.199 --> 00:44:45.679
took for this, But again it's not It's not what
806
00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:48.559
I expected in a Gothic novel, that's for sure. And
807
00:44:48.679 --> 00:44:50.800
that that kid getting stabbed in the back, which is
808
00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:54.320
not what happened, also was not what I expected. So
809
00:44:54.320 --> 00:44:59.119
so I liked. And again I'm coming out this very new.
810
00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:02.599
You guys have read so many more of these. I'm
811
00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:06.360
coming at this new. But the the horror elements in
812
00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:13.119
this where we're shockingly good and often more than I expected.
813
00:45:14.599 --> 00:45:17.360
Yeah, this stuff usually doesn't happen in the Gothics that
814
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:20.960
we talked about. Yeah, yeah, it's it's an odd duck,
815
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:24.920
that's for sure. Yeah, So that was that's pretty much
816
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:27.800
like the excitement of the story. So we got we
817
00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:31.079
got Joan waking up in the house of doctor Wilfrid
818
00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:36.280
Allen and this brutal chapter where she just retells us
819
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:41.360
what we've just read, like She's just literally telling the
820
00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:46.840
doctor and her and doctor Allan what happened to her, Like,
821
00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:49.199
we just we just read that. We don't need we
822
00:45:49.239 --> 00:45:50.760
do not need to hear this again.
823
00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:54.079
Nothing like show, don't tell, and then tell don't show
824
00:45:54.199 --> 00:45:56.599
right afterwards in the same scene.
825
00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:58.360
Yeah, it was Yeah, that was that.
826
00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:00.480
Was brutal, strange and position.
827
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:02.719
Yeah. And this is where it just kind of all
828
00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:04.880
just this is where it crumbles for me, and I
829
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:09.280
was like, oh man, this is becoming h this is
830
00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:12.480
not good. It's weird.
831
00:46:12.519 --> 00:46:17.079
The only complaint I had about this point is Gothic romance.
832
00:46:18.599 --> 00:46:21.599
I just got to say, as I like romance, I
833
00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:26.000
enjoy reading romance, there was no romance in this at all,
834
00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:29.800
Like we have. She loves her boyfriend and her boyfriend's
835
00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:33.599
very protective of her. That's it. That's all the romance
836
00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:36.320
that that happens in this book at all. This isn't,
837
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:39.519
you know, falling in love with mister Rochester. This is
838
00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:44.199
they're they're together before the book starts, and uh and
839
00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:47.199
they just they just really dig each other. And that's
840
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:50.719
that's so so Yeah. I think the the horror was
841
00:46:50.760 --> 00:46:53.599
amped up in this and the romance was was way
842
00:46:53.679 --> 00:46:57.920
down because I just I never felt anything really romantic
843
00:46:57.960 --> 00:46:59.800
in this. I don't know if you guys felt differently.
844
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:05.000
No, And that's something that we do find in these books.
845
00:47:05.079 --> 00:47:06.880
Is there really isn't that much remis?
846
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:08.039
Oh really that's normal?
847
00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:09.800
Oh okay.
848
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:12.639
I figured there would be half romance, that they'd be
849
00:47:12.679 --> 00:47:14.800
falling in love while the story was going on.
850
00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:18.440
No, I think the romance is just that he cares
851
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:18.800
for her.
852
00:47:19.239 --> 00:47:22.199
Ah. Yeah, I mean you don't get any like, you know,
853
00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:25.079
even tepid love making. There's none of that, right.
854
00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:27.559
But not even the process of falling in love or anything.
855
00:47:27.639 --> 00:47:29.079
Huh.
856
00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:35.239
Sometimes you do get a byproduct of the situation that
857
00:47:35.320 --> 00:47:40.679
the uh that the main character is in she'll realize that, Okay,
858
00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:44.639
wait a minute, this my new husband is actually a
859
00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:49.559
really deceitful guy. And the person who's showing this to
860
00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:54.679
me is like the husband's cousin, who's the good guy.
861
00:47:55.320 --> 00:47:57.320
And the byproduct is she falls in love with the
862
00:47:57.400 --> 00:48:00.519
cousin or the or the the guy who runs the
863
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:06.239
mansion runs the farm. That's the romantic chemistry that develops
864
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:09.079
in some of these books. Have you guys ever read
865
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:12.960
Rebecca No? No, but I want to.
866
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:15.079
That's a that's a really I think you guys might
867
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:19.320
really enjoy that book. Just you were saying the husband's
868
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:22.119
turns out bad and yeah, yeah.
869
00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:23.679
That sounds that sounds like Rebecca.
870
00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:27.039
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, there's this there's this whole
871
00:48:27.079 --> 00:48:29.280
thing in the middle here where they're afraid to talk
872
00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:33.159
to the cops, and that it like it does go on.
873
00:48:33.559 --> 00:48:38.119
That's that's for absolute sure. That was the least favorite part.
874
00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:41.280
We get a little, a little taste of the cult
875
00:48:41.360 --> 00:48:44.519
once again. Or later that night, she hears the noise
876
00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:47.440
outside of her window and she looks out and in
877
00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:52.719
his yard, in the doctor's yard, is twelve naked men
878
00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:58.199
and women. They're circling around a giant figure that looks
879
00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:01.960
like a frog that's been in hailed, Like I'm similar,
880
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:06.360
frog gonna stick, and they're circling around it and then
881
00:49:06.440 --> 00:49:09.599
they start an orgy. They just start going at it.
882
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:17.119
And my favorite part here, she's like, she's like, you know,
883
00:49:18.039 --> 00:49:20.320
if this were a regular orgy, I would be okay
884
00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:28.440
with it, dye, I know this nefarious purposes going on here,
885
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:29.840
that's not okay.
886
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:34.199
It was so free love.
887
00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:40.480
It was, Oh my goodness. Yeah, it's it's interesting and
888
00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:42.159
I don't think I've brought this up yet, but I
889
00:49:42.199 --> 00:49:46.840
feel like this crosses into folk horror territory. I don't
890
00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:49.840
know if you guys have seen The wicker Man. Have
891
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:53.079
you seen The wicker Man? There are moments in that
892
00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:55.400
movie that feel very much like this moment in the
893
00:49:55.400 --> 00:49:58.079
book where he's just looking out the window and there's
894
00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:01.719
like naked people dancing around at and he's like, what's
895
00:50:01.719 --> 00:50:05.880
going on over there? People are just like randomly, you know,
896
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:09.880
making love on grave on graves, and yeah, it kind
897
00:50:09.880 --> 00:50:13.760
of felt like that, and I actually was kind of
898
00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:15.760
on board. I was like, yeah, let's let's just kind
899
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:20.239
of push this over into folkhor territory. It could really
900
00:50:20.280 --> 00:50:23.800
work that she's come here to fix herself, but this
901
00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:27.360
cult is so ingrained into the living of this area
902
00:50:27.559 --> 00:50:32.280
that that she's just gonna become, you know, this culty sacrifice.
903
00:50:33.639 --> 00:50:38.519
Yeah, speaking of yeah, speaking of the Wickerman. Then after
904
00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:41.599
the sheriff encounter where he's like kind of insinuating that
905
00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:43.840
Joan might have something to do with this, and he
906
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:47.320
also lets them know that the boy from the beginning
907
00:50:47.480 --> 00:50:47.920
has been.
908
00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:49.239
Murdered, oh Willie.
909
00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:52.800
So yeah, just like the Wickerman. So she's surrounded by
910
00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:56.159
these people, the psychiatrists and all that, and they come
911
00:50:56.199 --> 00:50:59.320
at her like kinda like yeah in a way like
912
00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:02.119
the town town people from the wicker Man where there
913
00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:03.760
seems to be something going on.
914
00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:06.559
Yeah, doctor Allen is out talking to the cop, and
915
00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:07.239
they're all.
916
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:12.000
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, there we there, we meet doctor
917
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:12.719
Allen's sister.
918
00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:15.480
Yeah.
919
00:51:15.559 --> 00:51:17.800
And she takes the lead and starts talking to Joan.
920
00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:20.400
I feel like her name is Susan, but that can't
921
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:20.760
be right.
922
00:51:21.320 --> 00:51:25.000
She goes about, oh, hi, I'm I'm doctor Allen's sister,
923
00:51:25.119 --> 00:51:27.920
and she's like, what he never told me that he had.
924
00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:29.079
A sister, half sister.
925
00:51:29.239 --> 00:51:32.119
Yeah, we half sister. And the sister's like, oh, we're
926
00:51:32.199 --> 00:51:35.119
very close by the way. I just did some time
927
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:38.440
in the pen. Yeah, just I just did some I
928
00:51:38.519 --> 00:51:41.360
just did some hard time for murder. And I'm just out.
929
00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:44.400
And it wasn't me. I'm innocent.
930
00:51:45.079 --> 00:51:47.360
It wasn't Yeah, it was.
931
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:50.559
It Helen Travin. I think Helen Helen Travin.
932
00:51:50.679 --> 00:51:56.199
Yeah. So now we got this convicted murderer, innocent convicted murderer,
933
00:51:56.719 --> 00:52:02.320
and he's weird psychiatrists and this town that there is
934
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:10.119
obviously a witchcraft cult going On. So the idea is cool,
935
00:52:10.519 --> 00:52:14.159
I agree, right, yeah, But man, is he just beat
936
00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:17.519
around the bush. He's like, here's some cool stuff, and
937
00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:19.960
then he just walks around it like five feet.
938
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:22.960
And I wonder if it's because he's trying to write
939
00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:26.480
in the gothic romance genre. I wonder if he's like,
940
00:52:26.480 --> 00:52:29.079
I can't go too hard here, because that's not what
941
00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:35.679
people are expecting from a gothic romance novel. I don't know,
942
00:52:35.800 --> 00:52:40.519
because his old weird tales, he's not afraid of going dark.
943
00:52:41.079 --> 00:52:43.800
So I wonder if it's the genre. I have no idea.
944
00:52:45.559 --> 00:52:48.119
I think here, what we have here is a couple
945
00:52:48.159 --> 00:52:50.840
of things. So I want you to look at nineteen
946
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:55.119
sixty nine, so we're talking about the era of cults
947
00:52:55.639 --> 00:52:59.599
and the Manson cults probably all over TV and this
948
00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:03.159
time period. Also think about the big best seller in
949
00:53:03.239 --> 00:53:08.519
nineteen sixty seven, Rosemary's Baby. Heck yeah, so nineteen sixty
950
00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:12.199
seven created the satanic panic. You had Rosemary's Baby, and
951
00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:15.039
then you started having those like you mentioned, like the
952
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:20.039
the cult folky satanic movies, like you had Crowhaven Farm
953
00:53:20.079 --> 00:53:23.079
which was on TV, the Secret of Harvest Home or
954
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:24.360
I think it was just called Harvest Home.
955
00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:25.719
Yeah, Thomas, try on.
956
00:53:26.079 --> 00:53:27.679
We're gonna be reading that soon for.
957
00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:30.119
My channel all night, so okay, I'd like to read
958
00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:32.559
that too. And then you have movies like Race The Devil,
959
00:53:32.960 --> 00:53:36.119
Devil's Rain, so this was all like the satanic panic stuff.
960
00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:40.639
But I think I think he wrote a satanic panic
961
00:53:40.760 --> 00:53:45.639
novel and then a Lancer at the height of you know,
962
00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:48.639
gothic paperbacks selling in the mid nineteen sixties and going forward,
963
00:53:48.639 --> 00:53:51.159
I think they said, well, let's make this. Let's make
964
00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:55.320
it a gothic romance novel because these weird Tales types
965
00:53:55.360 --> 00:53:58.519
of stories they don't sell anymore, and they and they
966
00:53:58.519 --> 00:54:00.800
were like, let's turn it into that. But it's odd
967
00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:03.559
that they wanted to do it that way considering what
968
00:54:03.639 --> 00:54:07.480
the market was desiring at that point. They wanted satanic panic,
969
00:54:07.960 --> 00:54:10.239
but Lancer. And this is one of the reasons probably
970
00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:13.079
why they went out of business, or Magdum for that matter,
971
00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:16.760
is because they made poor decisions when it came to
972
00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:18.280
marketing books and things like that. So I think this
973
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:20.440
was another poor decision. I don't think he wrote on
974
00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:22.800
gothic romance novel. I think he wrote a weird Tales
975
00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:25.480
type of cult book. And then they just turned it into
976
00:54:25.480 --> 00:54:27.719
that because even to the Dark Tower has nothing to
977
00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:28.679
do with the story.
978
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:31.960
Right, Yeah, Yeah, I think you're onto something.
979
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:32.679
I really do.
980
00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:36.599
I think that's probably pretty accurate. And it's weird because well,
981
00:54:36.639 --> 00:54:38.199
we'll talk about this when we get to the end,
982
00:54:39.079 --> 00:54:42.679
but yeah, I think that I agree with you, Nick.
983
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:46.480
He makes some really weird choices as to how to
984
00:54:46.599 --> 00:54:50.440
frame this and show this. But I feel like I
985
00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:52.840
feel like the genre was constricting him a little bit.
986
00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:53.400
I really do.
987
00:54:54.199 --> 00:54:56.159
And also on that other thing we're talking about with
988
00:54:56.199 --> 00:55:00.760
the cult having that ceremony in the woods and the
989
00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:03.840
people doing the sacrifice. I looked it up. It's a
990
00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:09.000
Roberty Howard's Wolves across the Border. But get this, though
991
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:15.079
it went unpublished until nineteen sixty seven, so Long could
992
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:18.119
have picked this up at the supermarket in the short
993
00:55:18.119 --> 00:55:21.719
story collection which was Conan the Usurper from sixty seven,
994
00:55:21.760 --> 00:55:24.599
which was Lancer. He may have picked that paperback up
995
00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:28.159
in sixty seven, liked that particular story, and so let
996
00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:31.840
me carve out that that ceremony part and let's make
997
00:55:31.880 --> 00:55:33.880
a whole freaking book about it. You know, who.
998
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:39.840
Knows, maybe Lancer pushed it on him. Could be he's popular, man,
999
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:41.079
want you throw some of that in there?
1000
00:55:41.239 --> 00:55:45.079
Yeah, wation where Long probably loved Roberty Howard's writing back
1001
00:55:45.079 --> 00:55:47.639
in the day. And then this story was completely unpublished
1002
00:55:47.719 --> 00:55:50.360
until you know, Glenn Lord found it in sixty five
1003
00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:52.960
and they published it in sixty seven. So it doesn't
1004
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:55.079
surprise me that Long would have would have sought out
1005
00:55:55.079 --> 00:55:59.559
that paperback. Read this. This is an unpublished Roberty Howard's story.
1006
00:55:59.639 --> 00:56:02.800
I need read it. Yeah, And you know, I'm jump,
1007
00:56:02.800 --> 00:56:05.440
I'm jump. I'm connecting too many dots. But I think
1008
00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:08.559
there's some suwhere in there. Probably is the is the devil?
1009
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:09.159
The details.
1010
00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:10.920
Well, I love how you've put it in the time.
1011
00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:13.760
I think that's that's really truly brilliant because I know
1012
00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:18.000
Ira Levin with Rosemary's Baby, like change the landscape, and
1013
00:56:18.039 --> 00:56:22.000
then when you add Harvest Home and Exorcists, but this
1014
00:56:22.239 --> 00:56:25.679
is before those two. This is and I think it's
1015
00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:29.000
before the other as well, and all of these were considered.
1016
00:56:29.320 --> 00:56:33.000
I mean, this is what started the huge The reason
1017
00:56:33.039 --> 00:56:35.760
that we have paperbacks from Hell all comes down to
1018
00:56:35.960 --> 00:56:39.199
those you know, those three Exorcists, Rosemary's Baby and the other.
1019
00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:43.679
And I like the idea that this is right in between.
1020
00:56:43.719 --> 00:56:47.480
And I feel like if he would have just written
1021
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:50.760
this story as a horror novel, we might this might
1022
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:56.039
be something we mentioned alongside those, but but it isn't. Yeah,
1023
00:56:56.079 --> 00:56:59.559
it isn't because I think of it trying to mush
1024
00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:00.480
into this genre.
1025
00:57:01.599 --> 00:57:04.400
Wow, that's interesting. And Nick, this may be why you
1026
00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:07.000
and I had panned it so much. It's because we
1027
00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:10.239
were looking at it from a Gothic like, this isn't
1028
00:57:10.280 --> 00:57:12.559
Gothic romance, this isn't Gothic suspense.
1029
00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:15.039
I was shocked.
1030
00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:19.480
I didn't think I like Chris. And then the writing.
1031
00:57:19.519 --> 00:57:22.159
It was the writing that just writing. It was exactly
1032
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:26.599
like the Frankenstein horror book that I read it just
1033
00:57:27.559 --> 00:57:28.800
it just doesn't.
1034
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:32.960
Oh the right. The writing is abysmal, and other than
1035
00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:36.519
just these first few chapters that we've covered, we go in.
1036
00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:39.639
I think at one point there is a forty page
1037
00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:44.679
scene set in one room where the police officer the sheriff,
1038
00:57:44.719 --> 00:57:48.199
is talking to It's almost forty pages and they don't
1039
00:57:48.280 --> 00:57:51.760
leave the room. Is the same kind of thing happened
1040
00:57:51.800 --> 00:57:54.400
in Monster from Out of Time, where you have these
1041
00:57:55.159 --> 00:57:57.679
it's the old uh you know, we're going back in time.
1042
00:57:58.159 --> 00:58:01.599
It's like these modern people get into it like a
1043
00:58:01.639 --> 00:58:03.320
storm or something, and they go back in time to
1044
00:58:03.360 --> 00:58:07.119
prehistoric ages, but they sit in a tent for half
1045
00:58:07.159 --> 00:58:09.760
the book and talk about where they're, where they are,
1046
00:58:10.039 --> 00:58:11.719
and what would happen if they leave the tint.
1047
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:13.199
Have you guys read I Robot?
1048
00:58:14.239 --> 00:58:14.719
I have not.
1049
00:58:15.079 --> 00:58:16.880
Oh my gosh, So I was super excited. I was
1050
00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:20.519
like Isaac Asimov and and and is of Guy's mom
1051
00:58:20.599 --> 00:58:22.960
has written some great stuff, but so much of it
1052
00:58:23.079 --> 00:58:26.719
is scientists standing in a in a room talking to
1053
00:58:26.760 --> 00:58:29.480
each other. That it's just it's it's it's crazy. So
1054
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:32.039
I think I think that was a big thing back
1055
00:58:32.079 --> 00:58:34.920
in the day. But yeah, that that long That was
1056
00:58:34.960 --> 00:58:37.280
the worst scene of the whole book, that forty pages
1057
00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:39.920
where they're like, I mean you could you could cut
1058
00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:43.280
that and it would still be a fine story because
1059
00:58:43.320 --> 00:58:45.880
all we need is her as hell and to introduce
1060
00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:48.639
herself and say, hey, they just almost got me for
1061
00:58:48.760 --> 00:58:51.639
murder but it wasn't me, right, Like, that's the only
1062
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:54.119
information we need from that scene at all.
1063
00:58:54.800 --> 00:58:58.039
Yeah, it's uh, And Nikki, you touched on something earlier,
1064
00:58:58.159 --> 00:59:00.360
like how they kind of shoehorned that one scene and
1065
00:59:00.519 --> 00:59:03.840
with those travelers getting killed off. It's like you know
1066
00:59:03.880 --> 00:59:05.840
the Friday the Thirteenth movies where they just kind of
1067
00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:08.159
throw in a kill scene. Yeah, and we'll go in
1068
00:59:08.199 --> 00:59:10.719
another kill scene real quick. But think about if you
1069
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:12.760
had Freddy the Threeah, but then you just put the
1070
00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:16.480
victim and the sheriff in a room and literally talked
1071
00:59:16.519 --> 00:59:19.360
about Jason Voorhees for one hour. Yeah, oh my god,
1072
00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:22.480
that's a terrible movie. And that's what this book was.
1073
00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:25.719
It was just one long narrative of dialogue and I
1074
00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:26.679
hated it so much.
1075
00:59:26.840 --> 00:59:30.400
My brother, who's more of a film critic than I am, says,
1076
00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:32.679
there's always a scene in horror movies where they have
1077
00:59:32.719 --> 00:59:35.760
to He calls it the microfish scene because they always
1078
00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:39.039
go to the library and find old newspapers to figure
1079
00:59:39.079 --> 00:59:43.760
it out. And I think that that the scene in
1080
00:59:43.800 --> 00:59:47.719
this They used to like to make microfish scenes way
1081
00:59:47.880 --> 00:59:48.559
too long.
1082
00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:52.639
And yeah, it does go on, but I'm.
1083
00:59:52.519 --> 00:59:54.440
Interested, Nick, Is this the chapter that you hit a
1084
00:59:54.440 --> 00:59:56.920
brick wall? Them sitting there talk.
1085
00:59:57.559 --> 01:00:00.840
No, it was when she woke up at his house. Okay, Oh,
1086
01:00:01.559 --> 01:00:05.199
then they just start reiterating everything that's happened. Yeah, and
1087
01:00:05.199 --> 01:00:06.679
that's pretty much the rest of the book. They just
1088
01:00:06.760 --> 01:00:10.760
keep talking about what is happening, Yeah, happening, And they're
1089
01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:11.840
just talking about.
1090
01:00:12.159 --> 01:00:14.800
And that's the worst. That's the worst in terms of
1091
01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:17.239
craft is repeating something that either of the viewer has
1092
01:00:17.239 --> 01:00:20.480
already seen on screen or read and you're rehashing that
1093
01:00:20.559 --> 01:00:21.559
again for no reason.
1094
01:00:21.880 --> 01:00:24.599
What it makes you think connecting more to yours? Is
1095
01:00:24.639 --> 01:00:28.280
this the idea of this being a satanic panic? It
1096
01:00:28.360 --> 01:00:31.519
might have been a very short story and Lancer was like,
1097
01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:34.440
just just mak it a Gothic and so he's like, oh,
1098
01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:37.679
gothics are just people in houses standing around talking. Got it,
1099
01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:40.159
I'll just repeat what just happened.
1100
01:00:41.199 --> 01:00:43.800
That could be one of the things interesting about Joan
1101
01:00:43.960 --> 01:00:45.400
is you want to think of her as like this
1102
01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:48.360
dynamic character and like you really want to feel for her.
1103
01:00:48.440 --> 01:00:51.679
But there's one scene where she's talking to herself, I think,
1104
01:00:51.760 --> 01:00:54.159
and she says something like, well, I hope that we
1105
01:00:54.199 --> 01:00:57.119
have enough time to make love, and they're like, well,
1106
01:00:57.119 --> 01:00:59.239
what is that? Like your whole reason of being there
1107
01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:01.199
is just you want to make love to the sky
1108
01:01:01.320 --> 01:01:04.840
and then you're failing to ignore how much he cares.
1109
01:01:04.840 --> 01:01:08.000
So you like offering you all these professional services for
1110
01:01:08.119 --> 01:01:11.039
free to analyze your mind to figure out what happened
1111
01:01:11.079 --> 01:01:12.559
to you. But she's just like, well, are we going
1112
01:01:12.599 --> 01:01:13.679
to have time to make love?
1113
01:01:14.360 --> 01:01:17.440
I kind of connected that to Frank trying to write
1114
01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:21.039
a woman. Yes, like, what what do women think about? Well?
1115
01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:24.280
Making love? Of course that's what they want to do.
1116
01:01:25.519 --> 01:01:27.840
It's gotta be sex, because what men think about all
1117
01:01:27.880 --> 01:01:28.199
the time.
1118
01:01:29.920 --> 01:01:31.719
I got to put some romance in there.
1119
01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:35.840
Gothic romance. That's romance is the second word.
1120
01:01:36.039 --> 01:01:38.400
Like, Frank, is there a romance in this gothic? He's
1121
01:01:38.440 --> 01:01:39.000
like check?
1122
01:01:41.039 --> 01:01:47.639
She wants to Yeah, yeah, begetting through that the forty pages,
1123
01:01:47.679 --> 01:01:49.760
I skipped most of it. I just I read like
1124
01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:51.639
every other page just to see if it was progressing
1125
01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:56.079
it for I did it. I had. I kept texting Dick.
1126
01:01:56.119 --> 01:01:58.400
I was like, I hate everything, I hate everything, I
1127
01:01:58.440 --> 01:02:00.440
hate everything. I hate this book.
1128
01:02:00.519 --> 01:02:01.079
I hate this.
1129
01:02:01.639 --> 01:02:03.679
I hate this so much. But I finally got through it,
1130
01:02:03.719 --> 01:02:06.599
and then you get towards the finale and it gets
1131
01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:07.320
a little bit better.
1132
01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:08.039
I agree.
1133
01:02:08.159 --> 01:02:09.039
I like the end.
1134
01:02:10.159 --> 01:02:12.519
Yeah. So she she's in she's in bed one night
1135
01:02:12.559 --> 01:02:15.360
and then all these people charging in her bed, but
1136
01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:16.880
there's a light in her face so she can't see
1137
01:02:16.880 --> 01:02:19.239
who it is, and they're like, we're gonna hypnotize you.
1138
01:02:19.480 --> 01:02:21.719
And she's like, oh, it's those people from downstairs.
1139
01:02:21.800 --> 01:02:24.800
This must be the process that my boyfriend arranged for me.
1140
01:02:26.159 --> 01:02:30.280
Yeah. Yeah, So she gets she gets hypnotized that everything
1141
01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:33.199
that she has learned about witchcraft and black magic and
1142
01:02:33.199 --> 01:02:37.599
it's all true, and that Wilfred doctor Allen is in
1143
01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:41.480
danger and and she needs to help him. So they're
1144
01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:45.039
putting they're putting these ideas in her head while she's hypnotized.
1145
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:48.880
So in the middle of the night, she wakes up
1146
01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:52.679
and she goes out to the woods and there's more
1147
01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:56.599
naked people dancing. There's pan pan flutes.
1148
01:02:56.199 --> 01:02:58.039
Playing worse heathens.
1149
01:02:58.519 --> 01:03:00.880
Yeah, it's yeah, this is I mean, we're back to
1150
01:03:00.920 --> 01:03:05.440
the black cattle at the beginning. It's just right, there's
1151
01:03:05.599 --> 01:03:09.719
so there's sacrificed animals on stakes. There's the hooded guys,
1152
01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:13.320
and they capture her and they tire to a post.
1153
01:03:13.880 --> 01:03:18.199
So now she's she's in with the cult. And and
1154
01:03:18.199 --> 01:03:21.159
then while she's tied to the cult, two of the
1155
01:03:21.199 --> 01:03:24.079
cultists just sit down and they start having a conversation
1156
01:03:24.159 --> 01:03:27.760
about the Joan of Arc right, like, oh, she's like
1157
01:03:27.880 --> 01:03:30.039
Joan of Arc on the I don't know it was.
1158
01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:33.039
It was really weird because they're like having this historical
1159
01:03:33.079 --> 01:03:36.119
discussion on whether Joan of Arc worships Peyton, whether she
1160
01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:38.079
was on there the cult side, right.
1161
01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:43.280
That was so weird because I was like, so, is
1162
01:03:43.280 --> 01:03:46.199
is is Frank trying to show us that that cultists
1163
01:03:46.239 --> 01:03:50.079
are just regular people? Like like like like because I
1164
01:03:50.079 --> 01:03:52.599
could see like say, uh uh, you know, people in
1165
01:03:52.639 --> 01:03:55.599
a church and they're they're doing some kind of ceremony
1166
01:03:55.639 --> 01:03:58.400
and they're like, okay, you know, I think God would
1167
01:03:58.519 --> 01:04:01.360
like this way, and no, God would like it this way.
1168
01:04:01.639 --> 01:04:05.440
Like do Satanists have those same conversations? It was this
1169
01:04:05.719 --> 01:04:09.400
weird slice of realism because they are supposed to be
1170
01:04:09.519 --> 01:04:12.800
very cartoony, bad guys, but then we get this strange
1171
01:04:12.920 --> 01:04:15.280
moment of realism in the middle of it. I'm glad
1172
01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:16.840
you pointed that out. That was a weird.
1173
01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:20.280
It was a weird moment. It just poses the question
1174
01:04:20.440 --> 01:04:22.320
was Joan of Arc a witch or a saint?
1175
01:04:22.639 --> 01:04:22.800
Right?
1176
01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:25.800
That's that's what Frank's trying to get across. Yeah, put
1177
01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:27.599
out there, get a discussion started.
1178
01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:29.599
Yeah. Yeah.
1179
01:04:29.960 --> 01:04:32.679
So then right when she's about to be killed, the
1180
01:04:32.719 --> 01:04:37.360
guns guns fire off, and she saved and then there's
1181
01:04:37.400 --> 01:04:42.320
awesome details. Oh my god, I'm just getting annihilated like
1182
01:04:42.400 --> 01:04:47.280
you were getting shot. Yeah, that was good. That made
1183
01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:48.880
my day was actually fun.
1184
01:04:49.079 --> 01:04:52.079
I actually thought about you at that part. Nick. I
1185
01:04:52.119 --> 01:04:55.440
was like, Okay, I bet Nick's liking this because it
1186
01:04:55.519 --> 01:04:57.239
was it was it was pretty. It was actually kind
1187
01:04:57.280 --> 01:05:01.159
of cool. When well described I think, yeah, because they
1188
01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:02.960
go into a panic. I mean it's I mean it's
1189
01:05:03.199 --> 01:05:05.280
fire coming from the trees. It's crazy.
1190
01:05:05.840 --> 01:05:08.519
Yeah, it's it's it's pretty cool. And then then we
1191
01:05:08.559 --> 01:05:11.360
get the Scooby Do ending where Wilfred comes in and
1192
01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:13.920
goes it was my sister the whole time.
1193
01:05:14.719 --> 01:05:19.199
The person that was almost uh uh charged with murder
1194
01:05:19.519 --> 01:05:22.840
No way right. Who would have thought.
1195
01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:29.559
She's she was trying to kill Helen so because she
1196
01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:33.800
wanted to stop her brother from marrying Helen. Because her
1197
01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:36.840
brother has lots of money, so she was the next
1198
01:05:36.840 --> 01:05:39.320
in line to get the inheritance. So it's all about
1199
01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:40.840
it's all about money.
1200
01:05:41.320 --> 01:05:48.639
And and this cult had been influencing doctor Allen for
1201
01:05:48.880 --> 01:05:53.000
like months before this. The people that he invited to
1202
01:05:53.239 --> 01:05:56.119
help Helen, none of them were who they said they were.
1203
01:05:56.239 --> 01:05:59.199
He thought he was dealing with them, but they they
1204
01:05:59.719 --> 01:06:03.159
member replaced each one of these people, and they've been hypnotizing.
1205
01:06:03.239 --> 01:06:06.840
And this era was so obsessed with hypnotism, like like
1206
01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:11.239
all the analog science fiction magazines you buy and everything
1207
01:06:11.280 --> 01:06:14.199
from that era will have like learn how to hypnotize
1208
01:06:14.239 --> 01:06:16.679
people and stuff in the in the back of the books,
1209
01:06:16.719 --> 01:06:20.320
these ads like like it was. It was kind of
1210
01:06:20.440 --> 01:06:24.239
popular at the time, this idea that hypnosis could give
1211
01:06:24.239 --> 01:06:28.320
you control over people. But yeah, the whole thing was
1212
01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:32.320
planned by Helen and her cult to try and get
1213
01:06:33.320 --> 01:06:38.079
Joan out of the way so that Helen could get
1214
01:06:38.079 --> 01:06:40.119
this money.
1215
01:06:40.239 --> 01:06:44.880
I've got this thing to read. I actually I can't remember.
1216
01:06:44.880 --> 01:06:47.440
I recorded myself reading this part to you, Nick, and
1217
01:06:47.800 --> 01:06:48.960
I don't know if I sent it to you or not.
1218
01:06:49.079 --> 01:06:53.079
But it's so stupid. It's just I hate to say stupid,
1219
01:06:53.119 --> 01:06:56.639
but this is stupid. This is doctor Allen explaining to
1220
01:06:56.840 --> 01:07:01.559
Joan what a problem is, and he expla it's just
1221
01:07:01.599 --> 01:07:04.079
so stupid. Maybe it's just me, but he says to Joan,
1222
01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:08.199
anything that darkens the sunlight for us is a problem.
1223
01:07:08.320 --> 01:07:12.280
Joan Wilfrid Allen said, with a look of tender solitude
1224
01:07:12.320 --> 01:07:15.199
in his eyes. It really is the opposite of clinical
1225
01:07:15.920 --> 01:07:19.519
things that shouldn't happen. Are problems until they are solved.
1226
01:07:20.280 --> 01:07:22.480
It's a problem when a child breaks a toy that
1227
01:07:22.519 --> 01:07:24.719
he thinks is the most wonderful toy in the world,
1228
01:07:25.119 --> 01:07:27.880
no matter how many other toys he has, better toys,
1229
01:07:27.920 --> 01:07:30.719
more expensive toys. You've got to find a substitute for
1230
01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:34.880
that particular toy or the sunlight will be darkened for him.
1231
01:07:35.280 --> 01:07:40.519
So it becomes a problem. And then Joan says, what
1232
01:07:40.639 --> 01:07:45.519
are you trying to say? And he says that what
1233
01:07:45.639 --> 01:07:47.639
may be important to you need not be something that
1234
01:07:47.760 --> 01:07:51.840
wise men, men of mature wisdom regard as at all
1235
01:07:51.960 --> 01:07:54.760
difficult to solve. It's just a matter of finding the
1236
01:07:54.880 --> 01:07:56.239
right substitute toy.
1237
01:07:56.960 --> 01:08:01.119
What the hell is he talking? That romance? There's that romance.
1238
01:08:01.239 --> 01:08:07.519
That's romance right there. You're just a child in your brain.
1239
01:08:07.679 --> 01:08:09.360
We'll find the right toy for you.
1240
01:08:09.840 --> 01:08:12.599
Well, there's this other part here where he has the
1241
01:08:12.639 --> 01:08:17.439
sheriff coming in and talking to her like like childlike,
1242
01:08:17.479 --> 01:08:20.960
like if everything's okay, now, everything's fine, everything's going to
1243
01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:27.199
be great. And then she asked about Helen, and he's
1244
01:08:27.359 --> 01:08:30.319
he's being so nice and and gentle, and then he
1245
01:08:30.359 --> 01:08:35.880
says to her he says, I may not be able
1246
01:08:35.960 --> 01:08:40.680
to find it now, but he says to her, we
1247
01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:43.119
found her in the woods, and he doesn't leave it
1248
01:08:43.159 --> 01:08:45.439
at that. He goes and they shot half of her
1249
01:08:45.479 --> 01:08:49.159
face off. Like that doesn't fit the whole context of
1250
01:08:49.199 --> 01:08:52.479
what you just did by building this nice little thing
1251
01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:56.840
with her being so broken, toy, it's terrible, Like it's
1252
01:08:56.840 --> 01:08:57.479
just terrible.
1253
01:08:59.319 --> 01:09:02.079
That is right, You're right, that is terrible.
1254
01:09:02.680 --> 01:09:04.560
I'm glad you read that, because that's what a lot
1255
01:09:04.600 --> 01:09:05.239
of this book is.
1256
01:09:05.319 --> 01:09:05.399
Like.
1257
01:09:06.079 --> 01:09:08.840
We make it sound cools, we're picking out the cool
1258
01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:11.720
stuff or maybe something that's silly and fun, but so
1259
01:09:11.920 --> 01:09:15.199
much of this book is weighted down with this what
1260
01:09:15.359 --> 01:09:18.000
are you? What's going on? What are you talking about?
1261
01:09:18.239 --> 01:09:21.479
Yeah, it's a lot of nonsense just thrown in there.
1262
01:09:21.520 --> 01:09:24.359
But yeah, I think, like Chris say, if you took
1263
01:09:24.359 --> 01:09:27.479
those forty pages out and condensed this down to one
1264
01:09:27.560 --> 01:09:30.199
hundred and fifty pages, one hundred and thirty pages somewhere
1265
01:09:30.199 --> 01:09:33.560
around there, and maybe maybe it works.
1266
01:09:33.840 --> 01:09:37.520
And I will I will say, if you actually burned
1267
01:09:37.520 --> 01:09:40.199
her at the end and let the cult win, you
1268
01:09:40.239 --> 01:09:43.359
would have a folk horror classic.
1269
01:09:44.800 --> 01:09:46.800
I don't know about that, but you'd have to.
1270
01:09:46.680 --> 01:09:48.960
Burner at the end. You'd have to burner at the
1271
01:09:49.079 --> 01:09:51.079
end for it to be a true classic.
1272
01:09:51.479 --> 01:09:53.039
I don't you know what, I don't even need that.
1273
01:09:53.359 --> 01:09:56.520
What I need is for the beginning and that whole
1274
01:09:56.560 --> 01:10:01.239
Spain monster thing to make sense because is not answered
1275
01:10:01.359 --> 01:10:07.720
at all. No, yeah, no, she really seeing it something.
1276
01:10:08.479 --> 01:10:13.159
Maybe he's saying that this cult is the modern equivalent
1277
01:10:13.319 --> 01:10:16.800
of this cult that's been around since prehistory or something.
1278
01:10:17.720 --> 01:10:20.479
But that's what's weird. He connects the cult with that
1279
01:10:21.159 --> 01:10:27.119
historical aspects, right, and then he has her see this
1280
01:10:27.199 --> 01:10:30.760
creature in this cave. Okay, this cult has nothing to
1281
01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:33.560
do with what is going on in this cave. They
1282
01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:35.840
don't know. They probably even know who she is or
1283
01:10:35.840 --> 01:10:38.760
that she's over there or what she sees this stuff,
1284
01:10:40.039 --> 01:10:42.800
and it's to her it's real. And then okay, so yeah,
1285
01:10:42.800 --> 01:10:48.079
the cult uses that and pretends that, you know, there's
1286
01:10:48.119 --> 01:10:51.000
really something after her, which maybe there is, maybe there isn't.
1287
01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:54.560
It's like I said, never answered. So why connect the
1288
01:10:54.600 --> 01:11:01.039
cult to the Pyrenees' witchcraft stuff? It's just stuff that
1289
01:11:01.159 --> 01:11:04.000
just didn't need. It doesn't make sense, none of it.
1290
01:11:05.319 --> 01:11:09.119
Yeah, I think this is Yeah. I was just gonna
1291
01:11:09.119 --> 01:11:11.199
say the strange thing is I really enjoyed reading it
1292
01:11:12.039 --> 01:11:15.279
except for the bad parts that we've talked about.
1293
01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:18.279
Yeah, his writing style, well.
1294
01:11:18.239 --> 01:11:20.439
Dick, I think the question here is does it pass
1295
01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:20.960
the test?
1296
01:11:21.359 --> 01:11:21.560
Yeah?
1297
01:11:21.600 --> 01:11:23.399
I agree, Gothic litmus tests.
1298
01:11:23.560 --> 01:11:25.680
I'm excited to do the Gothic litmus test.
1299
01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:29.520
Also, trademark, Chris, So don't just start to throw that around.
1300
01:11:29.920 --> 01:11:35.760
All about money. He's like the Gene Simmons of book Tube.
1301
01:11:38.039 --> 01:11:41.840
That's right, be right, trademark Harlan Ellis in a book Tube.
1302
01:11:42.600 --> 01:11:45.079
I just want that licensing fee. That's all that matters.
1303
01:11:46.560 --> 01:11:48.039
Remember the little guys when you get up to the
1304
01:11:48.119 --> 01:11:48.760
top man.
1305
01:11:48.800 --> 01:11:52.680
That's right. So, the the Gothic litmus Test something me
1306
01:11:52.680 --> 01:11:56.359
and Eric came up with to determine just how gothic
1307
01:11:56.479 --> 01:12:02.079
suspense these books are. So we at the gothic tropes.
1308
01:12:02.680 --> 01:12:04.680
So we got the cover art. Let's look at the cover.
1309
01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:07.119
Art here, only the top of the cover art.
1310
01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:09.840
Do we have a woman running from a house?
1311
01:12:12.159 --> 01:12:16.560
How particular are we gonna be? Technically? No, we have
1312
01:12:16.600 --> 01:12:19.199
a woman superimposed in front of a house.
1313
01:12:20.760 --> 01:12:23.000
It looks like the wind is blowing her hair to
1314
01:12:23.039 --> 01:12:24.319
where she's walking away from.
1315
01:12:24.439 --> 01:12:28.039
Yeah, yeah, it could be she's closer to the to
1316
01:12:28.079 --> 01:12:31.279
the camera running away from the house, and that's the
1317
01:12:31.319 --> 01:12:33.640
house behind. Eric's not not buying this.
1318
01:12:33.880 --> 01:12:36.560
No, you're given it a zero, Eric zero.
1319
01:12:37.359 --> 01:12:41.439
Let's because that is such a gothic cover. If it
1320
01:12:41.520 --> 01:12:44.560
was bigger, why did they just do the top three
1321
01:12:44.600 --> 01:12:45.560
inches of the book.
1322
01:12:46.039 --> 01:12:47.920
I guess that candle was really important.
1323
01:12:48.680 --> 01:12:50.159
Yeah, I hate it.
1324
01:12:50.960 --> 01:12:54.159
I love this part. No, no, I love this part,
1325
01:12:54.199 --> 01:12:55.279
but I wish it was bigger.
1326
01:12:55.920 --> 01:12:57.399
Min's a little bit bigger than yours.
1327
01:12:57.479 --> 01:13:00.800
I don't like yours is.
1328
01:13:00.880 --> 01:13:03.760
Oh yeah, yours is maybe a little bit better. Let
1329
01:13:03.800 --> 01:13:04.039
me see.
1330
01:13:04.159 --> 01:13:06.399
Yeah, yeah, I like yours better. Nick, you kept the
1331
01:13:06.439 --> 01:13:07.000
right one.
1332
01:13:07.840 --> 01:13:10.199
Well, now that you mentioned it, Yeah, I do see
1333
01:13:10.239 --> 01:13:14.199
the hair blowing now. Yeah, okay, I changed my mind.
1334
01:13:14.239 --> 01:13:15.239
Does it have the one light on?
1335
01:13:16.199 --> 01:13:19.680
Yes, in the attic, one red light yep.
1336
01:13:20.079 --> 01:13:22.359
Yeah, I'll vote yes. Whatever you guys want to do,
1337
01:13:22.359 --> 01:13:22.720
I'm going to.
1338
01:13:22.760 --> 01:13:23.359
Vote yes too.
1339
01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:25.760
I'm gonna do it different. I'm gonna split it up
1340
01:13:25.960 --> 01:13:27.560
so now we each get our vote.
1341
01:13:27.640 --> 01:13:28.119
Oh damn.
1342
01:13:28.479 --> 01:13:30.479
And then so we might get a different one. So
1343
01:13:30.840 --> 01:13:33.119
everyone's down for woman running from house.
1344
01:13:33.319 --> 01:13:37.039
Yes on nixs cover especially yes.
1345
01:13:37.640 --> 01:13:39.640
And then we got one light on obviously, there's nothing
1346
01:13:39.680 --> 01:13:43.239
to argue about there, all right, So then we're on
1347
01:13:43.279 --> 01:13:46.119
to the themes. Do we have this stranger in a
1348
01:13:46.159 --> 01:13:47.439
strange land.
1349
01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:52.560
Yeah, because she's not from Kentucky, right, she's been there before,
1350
01:13:52.960 --> 01:13:53.560
Oh she has.
1351
01:13:53.640 --> 01:13:56.039
Yeah, but the kid at the beginning recognized her.
1352
01:13:56.399 --> 01:13:59.760
Oh that's right, she's not she's not unfamiliar with what.
1353
01:13:59.800 --> 01:14:04.000
She owes to the Pyrenees. But that's that's in the past.
1354
01:14:03.760 --> 01:14:05.119
Right, we're talking. We're talking.
1355
01:14:05.199 --> 01:14:06.399
The whole book has to.
1356
01:14:06.960 --> 01:14:11.359
Unfold the set of the story.
1357
01:14:11.319 --> 01:14:13.520
Yeah, it is zero, then I think that's a zero.
1358
01:14:15.680 --> 01:14:18.680
No, all the way across. Is there gas lighting?
1359
01:14:21.399 --> 01:14:26.359
It's weird. Helen's gaslightinger, Helen's gaslighting everybody.
1360
01:14:27.199 --> 01:14:29.600
You know. What's weird is they are gas lighting her
1361
01:14:29.600 --> 01:14:31.880
and kind of an opposite way where she feels like
1362
01:14:31.920 --> 01:14:34.079
she's crazy and they're like, you know what, you're right, girl,
1363
01:14:34.159 --> 01:14:37.880
you are crazy. Usually gas lighting is the other way around.
1364
01:14:37.960 --> 01:14:42.439
Right, that's a good point. Yeah, i'd say, yes, yeah, definitely.
1365
01:14:43.079 --> 01:14:47.520
Chris, Yeah, I'm going to say that there is gas lighting. Definitely.
1366
01:14:50.319 --> 01:14:53.119
Is there a handsome man with questionable motives?
1367
01:14:56.920 --> 01:14:59.239
I so the whole time I was hoping doctor Allen
1368
01:14:59.319 --> 01:15:04.680
was part of the cult. But did Frank ever push that,
1369
01:15:04.840 --> 01:15:09.560
did he ever make him seem like he was questionable?
1370
01:15:09.640 --> 01:15:11.880
And I don't he did. Oh thank god.
1371
01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:16.279
When when the sheriff brings the voodoo doll to him
1372
01:15:17.239 --> 01:15:21.079
and he's like, he's like, oh, I found this doll
1373
01:15:21.159 --> 01:15:24.439
on this this body, and doctor Allen's like, oh, yeah,
1374
01:15:24.439 --> 01:15:26.279
that that showed up on my doorstep the other day.
1375
01:15:26.279 --> 01:15:29.359
And the Sheriff's like, why didn't you tell me? This
1376
01:15:29.439 --> 01:15:29.960
is crazy?
1377
01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:33.760
I i'msuade.
1378
01:15:35.800 --> 01:15:38.039
So we do have a handsome man with questionable motives.
1379
01:15:38.119 --> 01:15:38.720
I think, So.
1380
01:15:42.079 --> 01:15:44.680
Is there? This is good? This is good because I
1381
01:15:44.880 --> 01:15:47.199
already talked about it. Is there romance?
1382
01:15:47.239 --> 01:15:52.880
Guys, other than her just wanting the booty call? There
1383
01:15:52.880 --> 01:15:53.920
really isn't.
1384
01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:56.399
Well and him telling her that if she breaks any
1385
01:15:56.439 --> 01:15:58.680
of her toys he'll get her a new one.
1386
01:15:59.239 --> 01:16:03.479
I like this, that's pretty romantic, you guys consider romance.
1387
01:16:04.239 --> 01:16:06.479
I thought the romance was nil in this. I did
1388
01:16:06.479 --> 01:16:08.680
not like the romance in this. But but does that
1389
01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:12.399
mean it's not there? I feel like there's so little
1390
01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:13.600
that I'm gonna give this a zero.
1391
01:16:14.560 --> 01:16:15.479
It's a zero for me.
1392
01:16:16.239 --> 01:16:21.000
Yeah, I'm going to vote for yes, all right? Because
1393
01:16:21.039 --> 01:16:23.359
he loves her all the stuff he does for her,
1394
01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:24.800
that's romantic.
1395
01:16:25.119 --> 01:16:27.960
Well he tells us that, but yeah.
1396
01:16:27.680 --> 01:16:31.760
No, you got all those people together. He's bringing her
1397
01:16:31.800 --> 01:16:33.399
in town to take care of her and take care
1398
01:16:33.439 --> 01:16:36.880
of her mental needs. What you're thinking about making love? Chris?
1399
01:16:37.039 --> 01:16:43.119
When did they start hypnotizing him? How far back do
1400
01:16:43.239 --> 01:16:44.600
we was he.
1401
01:16:44.600 --> 01:16:45.880
Under the control of the cult?
1402
01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:52.000
Good question? Yeah or not? Well he's the one who
1403
01:16:52.119 --> 01:16:54.199
brings the guns and starts blowing them away.
1404
01:16:54.439 --> 01:16:55.199
Yeah, that's true.
1405
01:16:55.239 --> 01:16:56.399
How hypnotized was he?
1406
01:16:56.520 --> 01:17:00.840
That's pretty romantic, shooting up a cult for your for
1407
01:17:00.920 --> 01:17:01.279
your lover.
1408
01:17:01.399 --> 01:17:01.880
I like that.
1409
01:17:02.319 --> 01:17:03.680
I'm still giving it to zero.
1410
01:17:04.039 --> 01:17:09.079
Okay, And then the mystery is there their mysterious happening
1411
01:17:09.119 --> 01:17:09.640
is going on?
1412
01:17:10.800 --> 01:17:11.640
Yeah, definitely that.
1413
01:17:12.000 --> 01:17:15.920
Yeah, hints of the supernatural.
1414
01:17:16.840 --> 01:17:19.640
Yes, more than I expected.
1415
01:17:22.079 --> 01:17:25.680
Yeah, I'm I feel like they really really blew it
1416
01:17:25.720 --> 01:17:29.720
with that. I really wish I knew the connection. Yeah,
1417
01:17:29.880 --> 01:17:33.079
was it real? Why wouldn't you just put that in there?
1418
01:17:33.159 --> 01:17:34.560
Make it real? Make it real?
1419
01:17:34.680 --> 01:17:36.880
And maybe he's saying it's not because of that weird
1420
01:17:36.960 --> 01:17:39.640
Joan of Art conversation. Maybe he was like really throwing
1421
01:17:39.680 --> 01:17:41.960
it in our face that like these are just people
1422
01:17:42.640 --> 01:17:46.800
like trying to worship the Satan in the best way
1423
01:17:46.800 --> 01:17:49.760
they can. They're just flubbing it.
1424
01:17:50.439 --> 01:17:53.560
I don't know, man, all that stuff with the creature
1425
01:17:53.560 --> 01:17:55.560
in the cave and just is that stuff.
1426
01:17:55.640 --> 01:17:58.119
Yeah that stuff was good. Yeah, that was really good.
1427
01:17:58.159 --> 01:18:01.880
And they never answered that, which might be a Gothic
1428
01:18:01.960 --> 01:18:02.640
romance thing.
1429
01:18:02.720 --> 01:18:03.199
I don't know.
1430
01:18:04.239 --> 01:18:06.000
No, they always tell you whether it is.
1431
01:18:06.000 --> 01:18:09.119
Or Okay, explicitly explain it at the end.
1432
01:18:09.359 --> 01:18:12.119
I always wanted to be and it never is.
1433
01:18:12.840 --> 01:18:15.039
Yeah, they always explain it. They're like, hey, the devil
1434
01:18:15.079 --> 01:18:17.039
was or the horse was in the barn at six
1435
01:18:17.079 --> 01:18:20.159
o'clock and he was on the stairs at six fifteen.
1436
01:18:20.960 --> 01:18:24.239
You guys were talking about one. It might have been
1437
01:18:24.239 --> 01:18:26.159
the first one a long time ago, where there was
1438
01:18:26.199 --> 01:18:29.319
a person walking along the cliff along the beach and
1439
01:18:29.439 --> 01:18:32.199
wasn't there like an intricate Pulley system or something I
1440
01:18:32.199 --> 01:18:33.359
can't remember.
1441
01:18:34.840 --> 01:18:37.880
Wrapped right up by the guy having the affair with her.
1442
01:18:38.039 --> 01:18:40.640
Yeah, yeah, that was a good one.
1443
01:18:41.079 --> 01:18:44.520
I like listening to you guys talk about these so fun.
1444
01:18:45.560 --> 01:18:47.319
That was the first episode, was it?
1445
01:18:47.359 --> 01:18:48.600
Okay? That's what I thought.
1446
01:18:49.840 --> 01:18:52.840
So does Joan have a nurse type job.
1447
01:18:54.439 --> 01:18:56.840
No, No, she's a badass archaeologist.
1448
01:18:57.159 --> 01:18:58.079
She's a professional.
1449
01:18:58.359 --> 01:18:59.920
Yeah, she's Indiana Jones Man.
1450
01:19:00.079 --> 01:19:01.720
Not only yeah, and only that we don't mention it.
1451
01:19:01.760 --> 01:19:03.920
But the reason that she went to Spain in the
1452
01:19:03.920 --> 01:19:06.880
first place is she was in such a hurry to
1453
01:19:06.920 --> 01:19:10.359
get into the field that she didn't want to wait
1454
01:19:10.439 --> 01:19:15.039
the two years or whatever Wilfred was telling her to
1455
01:19:15.039 --> 01:19:19.399
get an official excavation crew to go there. She went
1456
01:19:19.439 --> 01:19:26.199
by herself. So she's real. And do we have an
1457
01:19:26.279 --> 01:19:27.199
isolated setting?
1458
01:19:28.159 --> 01:19:28.479
Yeah?
1459
01:19:29.159 --> 01:19:31.000
Yeah, backwoods of Kentucky.
1460
01:19:33.399 --> 01:19:38.640
All right, so we got so we have eight. You
1461
01:19:38.680 --> 01:19:41.520
guys have eight? Yes? Is I have nine?
1462
01:19:43.960 --> 01:19:44.760
How muny do we need?
1463
01:19:45.720 --> 01:19:53.880
Good? We always still, I know, we always blow this three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.
1464
01:19:54.600 --> 01:19:57.880
So it's out of ten, eight out of ten, and
1465
01:19:57.920 --> 01:19:59.159
I put nine out of ten.
1466
01:19:59.439 --> 01:20:01.560
I would say eight out of ten is a definite
1467
01:20:01.680 --> 01:20:05.000
Gothica ninety.
1468
01:20:05.159 --> 01:20:08.119
For you that sure just doesn't feel like it though.
1469
01:20:08.119 --> 01:20:09.359
You're thirty three percent of I.
1470
01:20:09.359 --> 01:20:11.399
Feel like it's I think we hit the nail on
1471
01:20:11.439 --> 01:20:14.920
the head. It's it's it's a horror story that that
1472
01:20:15.479 --> 01:20:17.640
he was then told to make it to a Gothic
1473
01:20:17.680 --> 01:20:20.279
I I really think I wish we could get the
1474
01:20:20.319 --> 01:20:22.119
history of this story, because I'll bet you, we'd be
1475
01:20:22.159 --> 01:20:23.319
we'd be pretty dang close.
1476
01:20:24.239 --> 01:20:27.479
What if any of his uh his heirs are alive
1477
01:20:27.560 --> 01:20:31.000
and or anything. What if we could track somebody down
1478
01:20:31.079 --> 01:20:33.039
to talk to Yeah, that.
1479
01:20:33.039 --> 01:20:33.680
Would be cool.
1480
01:20:34.159 --> 01:20:35.279
That would well.
1481
01:20:35.279 --> 01:20:37.279
I think we're gonna wrap it up here, then.
1482
01:20:38.600 --> 01:20:39.199
Wrap it up.
1483
01:20:39.880 --> 01:20:40.279
I want to.
1484
01:20:40.720 --> 01:20:42.640
I want to throw out that that you guys should
1485
01:20:42.680 --> 01:20:45.840
do Rebecca sometime and if you'd like me to join you,
1486
01:20:45.880 --> 01:20:48.279
I would love to because that would be like like
1487
01:20:48.359 --> 01:20:51.520
that is almost like the poster child of the genre.
1488
01:20:51.600 --> 01:20:55.760
I think, yeah, yeah, I think, uh, I'd like to
1489
01:20:56.399 --> 01:20:59.439
conquer more of the uh the classics of that one.
1490
01:21:00.159 --> 01:21:04.520
There's the one that U there's a gothic board out
1491
01:21:04.560 --> 01:21:10.199
there somewhere, discussion board, and it's like four you know
1492
01:21:10.199 --> 01:21:11.960
what I'm talking about. I have the book over there.
1493
01:21:11.960 --> 01:21:15.319
It's like four Coachman or something like that.
1494
01:21:15.359 --> 01:21:17.319
Oh, Mary Stuart. I love Mary Stuart.
1495
01:21:17.359 --> 01:21:21.680
That's yea for something coaches. So it's very the standard
1496
01:21:21.720 --> 01:21:24.159
for the gothic romance Four Coaches Waiting.
1497
01:21:24.439 --> 01:21:27.520
Mary Stuart did a lot of Gothic romance, and then
1498
01:21:27.600 --> 01:21:32.319
she just did this fantasy series based on Merlin. Best
1499
01:21:32.359 --> 01:21:34.640
fantasy I've ever read. I talked about on the channel.
1500
01:21:34.760 --> 01:21:36.720
I love it. It's it's my mom gave it to
1501
01:21:36.720 --> 01:21:38.800
me when I was very young and was like, check
1502
01:21:38.840 --> 01:21:40.840
this out. This is about Merlin, and oh my god,
1503
01:21:40.880 --> 01:21:42.960
it was. I've read it two or three times and
1504
01:21:43.039 --> 01:21:45.640
loved it every time. She's a good writer.
1505
01:21:46.439 --> 01:21:50.600
So Rebecca four Coaches Waiting we definitely need to do.
1506
01:21:50.720 --> 01:21:53.399
But Nick, we should probably explained real quickly why we
1507
01:21:53.439 --> 01:21:55.560
didn't do U the one that we promised on the
1508
01:21:55.640 --> 01:21:59.079
last episode. We promised the Turn of the Screw.
1509
01:21:59.359 --> 01:22:00.399
No Turn of the Screw.
1510
01:22:00.560 --> 01:22:02.640
Oh, I've dnf that book.
1511
01:22:03.399 --> 01:22:04.479
That's why we didn't do it.
1512
01:22:04.600 --> 01:22:04.840
Yeah.
1513
01:22:05.039 --> 01:22:08.279
I and it's weird because like that is classic horror.
1514
01:22:08.920 --> 01:22:12.199
I should love it. But yeah, for someone reason, Henry James.
1515
01:22:12.239 --> 01:22:16.000
And it's funny because he also wrote Portrait of a Lady,
1516
01:22:16.039 --> 01:22:18.760
didn't he And that one I got about halfway through
1517
01:22:18.880 --> 01:22:21.479
and just I couldn't pick it up again. There's something
1518
01:22:21.520 --> 01:22:25.039
about that dude that I just can't. I can't get through.
1519
01:22:25.239 --> 01:22:27.159
That's a tough read. I did Turn to the Screw
1520
01:22:27.239 --> 01:22:30.600
twice somehow, and uh, I just reviewed it recently on
1521
01:22:30.640 --> 01:22:33.359
the blog. But Nick, he couldn't finish it.
1522
01:22:34.359 --> 01:22:36.199
I was at first, I was scared of when that
1523
01:22:36.359 --> 01:22:38.319
weird face was looking through the window. I was like,
1524
01:22:38.359 --> 01:22:41.159
oh my god. But then I just I just kind
1525
01:22:41.159 --> 01:22:45.039
of you know, it's funny because books move around like
1526
01:22:45.079 --> 01:22:47.199
if they're if they're if I'm really enjoying them, they're
1527
01:22:47.279 --> 01:22:50.560
right next to my bed, and by the time they
1528
01:22:50.560 --> 01:22:52.960
get to the back of the toilet, then they're probably
1529
01:22:53.039 --> 01:23:02.199
not going to get finished. Yeah, that's right where the
1530
01:23:02.199 --> 01:23:05.119
books at? Can I ask one more question just while
1531
01:23:05.159 --> 01:23:08.800
I have you, guys, where does somebody like Victoria Holt fall?
1532
01:23:10.600 --> 01:23:12.439
Is she more historical romance?
1533
01:23:13.680 --> 01:23:16.760
I don't know. I'm wondering. You guys have never brought
1534
01:23:16.760 --> 01:23:19.520
her up, and I've got like a a I've got
1535
01:23:19.560 --> 01:23:21.399
a like probably six.
1536
01:23:21.159 --> 01:23:22.199
Of her novels here.
1537
01:23:23.680 --> 01:23:27.199
And for me, that is just because I remember my
1538
01:23:27.279 --> 01:23:29.680
mom was a voracious reader when I was young, and
1539
01:23:29.800 --> 01:23:32.039
she loved these kind of books. And I remember Victoria
1540
01:23:32.119 --> 01:23:35.600
Holt was always on the shelf.
1541
01:23:37.199 --> 01:23:40.119
Yeah, she's she's back there as well on my shelf.
1542
01:23:40.439 --> 01:23:42.159
I think I've got two or three of hers, and
1543
01:23:43.399 --> 01:23:48.560
Victoria Holt and the one that's Phyllis Whitney, Phyllis Whitney,
1544
01:23:48.800 --> 01:23:51.840
and then there's a Florence somebody that I can't think
1545
01:23:51.880 --> 01:23:54.680
of her name. Yeah, there's some major ones think that
1546
01:23:54.720 --> 01:23:57.000
we haven't really done, but because I'm just torn on
1547
01:23:57.039 --> 01:24:00.159
whether they're Gothic or there historical romance.
1548
01:24:00.239 --> 01:24:04.720
Because I know Victoria Holt has written, but her first
1549
01:24:05.520 --> 01:24:08.880
it was something like the Nine Virgins or something that
1550
01:24:09.119 --> 01:24:14.159
they're they're standing around this uh Stonehenge type thing, and
1551
01:24:14.159 --> 01:24:17.159
I'm like, well, that looks like straight up looks like
1552
01:24:18.199 --> 01:24:19.199
Gothic romance.
1553
01:24:19.720 --> 01:24:20.880
Yeah, yeah, I don't.
1554
01:24:20.960 --> 01:24:23.760
I don't know, but I'm I love, I love that
1555
01:24:23.800 --> 01:24:27.000
you guys are doing this. This is this is such
1556
01:24:27.039 --> 01:24:32.880
a underappreciated genre that I've been watching since you started.
1557
01:24:33.159 --> 01:24:35.319
And I'm I'm so happy that I got to do
1558
01:24:35.399 --> 01:24:37.199
one with you guys. And thank you Nick for sending
1559
01:24:37.239 --> 01:24:39.880
it to me, because I was just like, right when
1560
01:24:39.880 --> 01:24:41.239
I got at the mail, I was like, are we
1561
01:24:41.279 --> 01:24:41.920
doing this, Nick?
1562
01:24:41.960 --> 01:24:46.520
And He's like, Okay, awesome.
1563
01:24:46.800 --> 01:24:49.279
Yeah, So thanks for having me on, guys. I really
1564
01:24:49.319 --> 01:24:50.079
appreciate it.
1565
01:24:50.359 --> 01:24:52.359
Yeah, it's been great. I really appreciate you coming on.
1566
01:24:52.680 --> 01:24:55.000
I'd have to have you on again to talk about
1567
01:24:55.239 --> 01:24:56.840
one of those two books we just talked about.
1568
01:24:57.079 --> 01:24:58.159
Absolutely, I'd love to.
1569
01:24:58.880 --> 01:25:03.760
Next we'll make Chris read Men's Adventure. Oh my goodness.
1570
01:25:05.359 --> 01:25:08.640
We'll see how I do. I don't know. It's it's interesting.
1571
01:25:08.640 --> 01:25:11.399
It's not my it's not my favorite genre because I'm
1572
01:25:11.479 --> 01:25:14.520
not a big action fan, but but I would try it.
1573
01:25:15.199 --> 01:25:16.680
You'd have to pick the best one.
1574
01:25:17.760 --> 01:25:18.840
To find best.
1575
01:25:20.199 --> 01:25:21.239
The one I would like.
1576
01:25:24.920 --> 01:25:27.720
Adventure. That's Snowman. That Snowman's a horror men's adventure?
1577
01:25:27.880 --> 01:25:28.119
Is it?
1578
01:25:29.000 --> 01:25:31.479
And Brian send it to me? So yeah, that one,
1579
01:25:31.520 --> 01:25:32.479
and it looks pretty short.
1580
01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:34.680
Yeah, the Norman Bogner Snowman.
1581
01:25:34.960 --> 01:25:36.760
Yeah, yeah, maybe I'll check.
1582
01:25:36.760 --> 01:25:39.119
You know, we can go together and talk about it.
1583
01:25:40.520 --> 01:25:42.399
All right, Well, we're gonna take off. Eric's gotta get
1584
01:25:42.399 --> 01:25:44.760
out of here, he says, shut up, guys, we gotta go.
1585
01:25:46.159 --> 01:25:47.000
Thanks for having me again.
1586
01:25:48.319 --> 01:25:50.119
Thanks for having me here, because I'm on the paperback
1587
01:25:50.119 --> 01:25:54.279
Warrior too. Right bye everybody.
1588
01:25:54.600 --> 01:25:55.880
By