Returning to Structured Pagan Practice

WEBVTT
00:00:15.839 --> 00:00:17.760
Welcome to Peggy Coffee Talk.
00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:22.160
If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials.
00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:28.239
Somewhere in the 90s, something something happened, and I don't know what happened.
00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:36.719
I I don't know what caused this thing in the pagan community where beforehand it was like in the 80s and stuff.
00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:47.920
If you sort of remember, it was less about a questioning authority, and everybody wanted a guru, and everybody wanted to find a temple, and everybody wanted to find a covenant, a teacher.
00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:50.880
Then suddenly in the 90s, that all stopped.
00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:52.240
All right.
00:00:52.399 --> 00:01:04.000
I understand why some of it stopped, but just this complete lack of everybody seemed to become deathly afraid of finding a teacher or asking about teachers or anything like that.
00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:05.359
You're guru.
00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:06.719
Right.
00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:12.400
Now let's admit it, by the time the 90s came around, we had charlatans.
00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:26.480
We had a lot of charlatans back in the day, where in the world you would pay an awful lot of money, start to take the classes, and realize it's the same bowl that you could buy for 20 bucks and read out a Scott Cunningham book.
00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:27.439
Right.
00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:34.799
But it became a problem, and it got to the point to where literally we threw all the everybody threw all the teachers away.
00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:37.200
We're not going to listen to the elders anymore.
00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:39.120
We're not going to be parts of temples.
00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:51.840
Because you remember this, the the backlash between traditional witchcraft who were this closed covens and traditions started to get a whole lot more backlash.
00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:55.359
There was better teachers and gatekeeping and all this other stuff.
00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:56.799
All this came up.
00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:04.799
Well, and I think a lot of that, I think a lot of that was due to the carn artists that were so prevalent at that time.
00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:17.199
And, you know, people pretending to be legitimate when all they were after was sex or you know, money or whatever else.
00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:21.360
Or it was a big ego trip and stuff like that.
00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:26.960
Back in these days, it's not like we all didn't go through this at some point.
00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:27.599
All right.
00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:31.439
We all found those people and they were there.
00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:33.120
I'm not saying they weren't real.
00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:34.400
And they still are.
00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:42.319
I mean, they're still out there, but it was for some reason it was like really prevalent back in the 90s.
00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:44.000
Yes.
00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:51.840
I mean, it you could you walk down the street and trip over a so-called guru at the it seemed like at the time.
00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:52.960
All right.
00:02:53.199 --> 00:03:11.439
Everybody was, and everybody was talking, and everybody was writing books, and every and then you start looking at the material and you're like, well, did we give up on certain did we give certain standards up to have this more colloquial or more worldly belief systems?
00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:24.080
Well, then let me ask you, um, since we know it was pretty widespread, and what was the response of traditional craft to all of this?
00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:28.879
Well, I certain temples did certain things.
00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:39.439
Our elder basically told us to withdraw from society hoping it would burn itself out so the traditionalists could come back out into the public.
00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:43.039
But I don't see where in the world that happened either.
00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:44.080
Well, no.
00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:53.680
So I do because I saw a lot of tr I saw a lot of traditionalist groups start to put out more of the start to change their websites and stuff like this.
00:03:53.759 --> 00:04:06.800
And even our elder Lord men, he saw the same pattern where in the world certain more traditional covens were slowly changing what was said on their websites to reflect more of what was going on in the community.
00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:15.280
Well, and he took this as well, we're just going to let we're just going to continue to lie to them and let them believe on this stuff until they burn themselves out.
00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:18.560
Well, I think there was also a response.
00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:25.279
The well, I think the response for some was to simply disappear.
00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:26.160
Yes.
00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:36.879
Not completely, but websites were taken down, phone numbers were no longer published, no no email information was out there.
00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:39.759
You couldn't you couldn't find them.
00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:46.079
For all intents and purposes, there was a period in time where all the traditionalist covens went underground.
00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:48.879
And I'm not saying it still ain't happening.
00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:56.319
There's still a lot of traditional covens that are sort of back into the woods, and you you have to really find them to find them.
00:04:56.959 --> 00:05:01.279
You actually have to actually hunt them to find them and become parts of them.
00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:08.079
I know temples that have been up for 50 years, they still ain't updated their website just because of this.
00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:12.879
Because they don't want people, they don't want the SEO stuff.
00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:20.560
They don't want a thousand people to be bombarding them all the time because the traditions don't work like that per se.
00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:21.439
Right.
00:05:21.839 --> 00:05:22.560
And we did.
00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:23.439
We stepped back.
00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:24.079
All right.
00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:41.759
I mean, how I will sit here and ask, how many podcasts are actually from real traditionals and real traditional spaces, you know, and and that did not do the whole open mind and open thing and the whole Wicca thing.
00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:42.800
Are you with me?
00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:45.600
There was that in the community.
00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:59.279
We withdrew, and now we're sitting back and we're looking at people with all these people that said we didn't need teachers, and now I keep on seeing on all their website, so your tradition ain't working for you, so this ain't working for you, so that ain't working for you.
00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:01.040
But y'all gave up the teachers.
00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:06.800
You you didn't want, and now you're complaining about it, but this is what y'all wanted.
00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:14.240
Well, and there was also a period of time where classes were charged, you had to pay to take the classes.
00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:14.959
Yes.
00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:27.199
And and again, the reason you paid to take the class is because a lot of pagans would not donate to their temples or give tithes to their temple because it was too Christian.
00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:27.839
Right.
00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:39.120
We still run into that, but somewhere along the line, we stopped charging for classes again and just started off asking for donations.
00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:45.920
When you start charging for classes, it it brings in this different narrative, I think.
00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:51.600
All right, because as soon as I pay for it, as soon as I pay for it, yes, I'm going to expect to get initiated.
00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:58.319
So we're going to make you pay for classes, then look at you, go, well, you might not get initiated.
00:06:58.720 --> 00:06:59.040
Right.
00:06:59.279 --> 00:06:59.519
All right.
00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:09.279
Because a lot of people get upset about that because they're not looking at it, hey, I just gained a bunch of knowledge for free, and now I'm going to use that knowledge to go start another temple.
00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:11.120
Not what they think.
00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:13.600
They're just, well, I I should have gotten my first degree.
00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:14.879
I should have been part of you.
00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:17.279
I should have gotten that silver spoon in my mouth.
00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:18.959
I paid for it.
00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:20.240
Right.
00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:24.639
I think once we start putting price tags on there, we have a problem.
00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:32.480
Because I I mean, I'm back to if it's that important to get the information out for everybody to know, why are you charging for your books?
00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:36.560
Which is more important, you making a profit or getting the information out.
00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:37.439
Right.
00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:44.000
I'm just curious, do you think that doing that helped rebuild trust?
00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:48.959
Or do you think it created new problems, or do you think it just didn't do anything at all?
00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:52.480
I want to say it did all three.
00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.040
For some people, it put trust back.
00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:57.920
For some people it didn't do a thing.
00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:00.480
And for some people, yeah, it did the complete opposite.
00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:07.120
Oh, they that now they're just gonna bring you in and start, you know, yanking you around until after the fact.
00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:13.839
And by that time you're too far deep in or whatever, it's a cult type of mentality.
00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:16.959
I I think where some people might have took this.
00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:25.360
Because again, I'm not saying there's still not this divide in the community between the traditionalist and the whatever you want to call them.
00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:25.839
Right.
00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:29.600
All right, the the the solitaires, the eclectic, whatever.
00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:31.600
There's still a riff there.
00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:32.720
Sure, there is.
00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:35.120
I don't I don't think that's ever gonna go away.
00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:37.759
It well, it's not ever gonna completely go away.
00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:39.440
I mean, I wish it would.
00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:44.799
I don't see too many traditionalist sitting here really rallying against these other people.
00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:46.960
You're just saying, hey, this is what we believe.
00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:47.759
Right.
00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:55.519
And from my point of view, and yes, I could be wrong, I feel like as traditionalists get attacked more than the other way around.
00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:58.159
Do you think this is a long-term effect?
00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:02.399
I mean, do you think it's gonna I really you think it's just gonna stick around?
00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:04.080
I'm not sure.
00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:05.600
I'm really not sure.
00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:09.440
People change, generations change, different circumstances.
00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:18.240
People used to not think that for some reason that you had to be a witch or connected to some secret society to do spells.
00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:22.080
Spells was a common day thing that the everyday person did.
00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:27.200
And now we just look at it and oh no, you gotta be special.
00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:29.600
I'm sorry, read Mark Twain.
00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:31.039
All right.
00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:40.080
Let me tell you, them boys that he writes about, oh, one of them's trying to do spells to get rid of warts all the freaking time, and that's all he talks about in one whole entire book.
00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:41.759
It's a spell, right?
00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:43.919
A common person, right?
00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:46.480
And now, what do we think?
00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:50.000
Oh no, no, you must be a witch to cast a spell.
00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:52.799
Yeah, I'm just wondering, when did when did that happen?
00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:56.480
Because I mean what turned the tables on that?
00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:08.399
Well, on that, I I believe what turned the table on that, I believe that was Christianity and the whole witch trial thing and all that because they kept on trying to connect that you had to be a member of the devil to have these powers.
00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:13.360
So you think that so you think like the whole satanic panic in the 80s was partially responsible?
00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:14.320
No, no, no, no, no.
00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:17.759
I I'm talking about no, I'm talking about the witch trials in Salem.
00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:31.360
I'm saying those are responsible because they started this whole entire thing is you have to be a witch or uh a loyal servant of Satan to have these powers, to do these spells.
00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:32.399
Okay.
00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:35.519
And before that, it was an everyday spell.
00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:45.200
Everybody knew spells, it was all folklore and stuff like this, and that's why some spells seem to be the opposite of other spells if you go to a different area.
00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:46.480
Right.
00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:49.039
But again, that's where that change started.
00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:52.480
I didn't say it was prevalent, but that's where I think that started.
00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:58.559
That that thought there that you had to be a soldier of Satan to have these powers, right?
00:10:58.879 --> 00:10:59.200
Okay.
00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:20.080
Well, getting back to getting back to the teacher aspect of this, we've sort of touched on it, but how has how has the perception of teachers and covens and all of that, how do you think it's affected how knowledge is transmitted within paganism?
00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:31.440
I think it just it makes it harder because there's such contradictory information a lot of times.
00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:34.799
And I don't mean to be this rude or anything like that.
00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:39.759
It takes a little age to start to realize what those contradictions are and how to fix them.
00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:45.440
You got a little you gotta have a little dust on your bottle to start to understand some of this stuff.
00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:46.399
Gotcha.
00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:51.519
I I mean, and I don't mean to be mean, but when you're a child, you actually think like a child.
00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:57.919
And and it when I think about the way I used to think about when I was a teenager, oh my God, I was an idiot.
00:11:58.240 --> 00:11:58.879
Right.
00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:01.200
I mean, we all were really, but you know.
00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:01.840
All right.
00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:06.240
I mean, and I know at the time I thought just like everybody else, nope, I got it all figured out.
00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:08.159
No, you don't.
00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:11.600
I, you know, I I'm 50 something years old.
00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:13.360
I still ain't got it all figured out.
00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:14.480
I know, right?
00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:17.440
God, if we did, it'd be so much easier.
00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:18.799
Oh god, it would.
00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:25.039
But age does a little maturity does change your viewpoint on some of this stuff.
00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:28.559
Yeah, those contradictions seem a little bit less and less as you get older.
00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:33.840
Well, I was gonna say it kind of helps um pull things together for you.
00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:34.399
Yes.
00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:37.519
Because you're able to you're able to put some of those pieces together.
00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:42.320
Well, I can sit here and say, here's what I believe in and why I believe in them.
00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:44.480
And these are my touchstones.
00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:48.639
This is where this is where I stand, this is where I hang my hat, whatever.
00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:52.080
But I have reasons for them.
00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:52.960
Right.
00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:56.559
I'm not saying that reason makes sense to anybody else but me.
00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:57.759
Right.
00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:03.440
I am the type of person, I sort of like more rational reasons than anything else.
00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:06.559
So the majority of my reasons I think is pretty rational.
00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:07.679
Sometimes it's not.
00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:12.080
I was gonna say, and ultimately it really doesn't have to make sense to anybody else.
00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:17.600
When we ask people, especially our students, what do you believe in?
00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:19.360
Why do you believe it?
00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:24.559
We don't want you to try and convince us that your way's the right way.
00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:25.440
Right way.
00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:29.919
We just want to know that you actually believe in what you believe in.
00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:31.919
And what you say you believe in.
00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:42.080
And right, that there is some self-logic in that absolutely that where where your belief supports itself in and of it.
00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:49.279
Right, because eventually, somewhere down the line, someone will come for you in some conversation.
00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:53.679
Someone will come for you, and you have to be able to stand on what you say you believe in.
00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:56.000
Right, and be able to explain it.
00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:59.600
And everybody keeps on thinking right answer on this stuff.
00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:00.879
Yeah, there are no right answers.
00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:04.159
And what did we learn from our teacher?
00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:05.360
There are no right answers.
00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:09.759
We're just wanting to know what you will stand for and what you won't, right?
00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:17.919
What you actually believe in, and where's that logic when you are challenged by somebody who don't really believe are gonna push back?
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:19.600
How are you going to defend your?
00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:26.080
I don't want to say, but I don't want to necessarily say the thin, but what's your argument for your side?
00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:26.879
Right.
00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:39.360
So, with that said, this is one of the things that I think without like without a proper teaching structure, this is one of those concepts that people miss out on.
00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:40.639
Yes.
00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:44.480
What else do you think people miss out on?
00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:49.120
They miss out on the actual arguments the majority of the time.
00:14:49.519 --> 00:15:02.240
Because here here's what I'll say is when I'll go out there and try to communicate on Reddit, YouTube, whatever, make comments, people get more self-defensive and don't actually listen to the argument.
00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:02.879
Okay.
00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:08.799
And so in this case, the argument is not like a TIFF between two people.
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:12.000
You're thinking more like debate arguments.
00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:14.399
More like debate arguments, right?
00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:16.960
I give you an example, all right.
00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:23.200
I've recently made a post on someone who said, well, you know, this guy made up the whole triple goddess thing.
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:32.159
And I'm like, well, yeah, the way he worded it and all that, yes, in Celtic mythology, that really never existed, that concept in and of itself, right?
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:34.320
Like what he's talking about.
00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:41.840
But the concept of a maiden goddess, a mother goddess, and a crone goddess has always existed.
00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:42.799
Right.
00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:52.480
And women's progressions through those three deities through their story of life have always been seen in this pattern of behavior.
00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:57.360
That this pattern of maiden, mother, and crone has been seen throughout life.
00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:04.639
We still have the same concept over on the God side of what is it, Page, Warrior, and Hermit.
00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:05.600
Right.
00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:13.200
It's just the stages of life, and that pagans didn't recognize that at all is incomparable.
00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:16.720
So I don't believe this person just pulled this concept out of their bud.
00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:24.480
They pulled this concept, they looked at this, said, Here's this concept I see in a lot of pagan religions or beliefs from around the world.
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:27.440
Here, let me name this and see what people say about it.
00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:28.399
Right.
00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:38.240
And everybody's more worried about what they're naming it or how it's called or whatever, and not looking at the concept of what's going on here.
00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:52.080
But when you start to point that out, instead of, oh, I see what in the world you're talking about, no, you're misogynist, or you're this, or you're wrong, or you're I only had one person that went, okay, wait a minute, I sort of see what you're talking about here.
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:56.879
And even mentioned it often that yeah, they saw it, but they didn't see it at the same time.
00:16:57.039 --> 00:17:00.559
And some people brought it up into four stages instead of three.
00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:05.039
My argument still is is that that process was still there, it was still seen.
00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:05.759
Right.
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:09.359
Well, then let me ask you this.
00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:24.079
So for anybody, say somebody's been burned by fake teachers or been hurt by teachers, and now they're skeptical about all structured learning and all that other stuff.
00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:28.640
What would you say to someone about that?
00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:36.240
Like, is there is there a way to distinguish between genuine people and potential predators?
00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:39.839
And when I say predators, I'm not talking strictly sexual predators.
00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:45.839
There are people who just they they prey on people for power, for money, for whatever else.
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:48.079
What should people look out for?
00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:51.279
Well, uh here's what I'm gonna tell you to do.
00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:54.880
And it if it was me and I'm gonna join a random coven, right?
00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:59.359
And I'm searching for one, I'm gonna go spend those first few days with them.
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:02.319
I'm gonna go to a full moon, I'm gonna go to a Sabbath.
00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:03.039
Okay.
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:04.720
I'm gonna interact with them.
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:05.359
Why?
00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:13.599
Because that gives me a chance to talk to all the other neophytes, it gives me a chance to talk to all the other first degrees, it gives me a chance to talk to all the other students.
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:25.440
If they start putting up cues or stuff that I don't like that they're talking about when I ask them about classes and temple and stuff like this, I'm just not gonna go back.
00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:36.160
I would sit there and I would probably ask the high priestess and the high priest certain things and see what kind of answers I get.
00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:40.319
And if I don't like the answers, I'm not gonna go back.
00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:46.960
Everybody has this thing like, oh, I'm not allowed to test people or to ask questions.
00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:50.880
That whole entire concept that people have with elders, stop.
00:18:51.680 --> 00:19:02.079
If you walk into a situation and somebody that coven or those those leaders make you feel like you can't question them, there's your red flag.
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.000
There's your red flag.
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:14.960
You know, I'm not I'm not gonna say they're not gonna give you, they might look at you weird or certain questions, or might even snicker to themselves, or something like this.
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:21.039
And it might not have nothing to do with it might have to do with something about the question, but kind of like that.
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:31.440
I'm sorry, I I have a neophyte asked me a certain question during ritual or whatever, or while we're just talking, and it relates to a mission.
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:35.759
I'm gonna sit there and kind of snicker, like, yeah, well, we'll get to that kind of later.
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:46.799
Well, I cannot discuss this in a mixed room full of people because I got some first degrees, I got some seconds, I got some neophytes, and I got some people that don't even started classes yet.
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:48.400
But you're asking me about a mystery.
00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:51.200
Schedule some time with me, we'll discuss it.
00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:54.640
Maybe.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.079
Maybe.
00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:58.559
But uh there's my point.
00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:05.519
If you're sitting there being told, okay, we'll get to that, well, you'll have to go through classes to learn that or whatever, that's not gatekeeping.
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:09.440
That's them not it's not it's not them not answering the question.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:18.240
It's them saying, hey, there's a little bit more context there that you might, which we cover in class, and I'm not just going to cover in a conversation right after ritual about something.
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:18.960
Right.
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:20.319
Now don't take that.
00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:29.039
But again, if you're sitting there and you are made to feel like, oh, you you really can't ask the high priestess any questions whatsoever.
00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:30.079
What?
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:35.440
Yeah, no, that's that's not a proper environment to be in.
00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:42.960
No, because I want to sit here and tell you right now, me and the lady during Sabbaths and stuff, we get asked questions all the time.
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:44.640
Oh, absolutely, yeah.
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:56.640
And yes, we answer them while we're trying to prep for ritual, going, yeah, well, there's this and then there's that, and I still gotta set up for ritual, but this is as far as we're gonna go right now, and I'm walking off.
00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:57.599
Right.
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:03.279
Well, one last one last thing um before we wrap everything up.
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:14.319
Is there anything that gives you hope that we can rebuild these healthy teaching structures and and and environments um inside of paganism?
00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:25.200
I do want to believe that there's a certain part of the uh pagan population that are kind of like, okay, we did the whole chaos thing and unorganized religion.
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:29.359
And yeah, we're we're we're starting to agree with the traditionalists.
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:32.079
We we do need some organization here.
00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:38.559
I I believe there is a part of the population that's starting to see what we've been talking about this whole entire time.
00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:41.039
And yes, there's still a part that's not.
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:51.599
So, and I still don't know how to I do not know how to divide that gap because I I don't know how to get the that that side that won't listen to us to listen to what we're trying to say.
00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:58.000
Because this is the side that still gets up when people like me go, Yes, you have to be a witch to initiate another witch.
00:21:58.319 --> 00:21:58.960
Right.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.200
Oh, you're not respect that isn't what I said.
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:05.519
I'm not talking about respecting you or not.
00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:07.440
I no, I just don't see you as a witch.
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:08.799
You weren't initiated.
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:14.400
I'm not saying you're a bad person or unmoral or or you're wrong in your beliefs.
00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:17.839
I you're your way is just as valid as anybody else's.
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:19.519
If it gives you that spiritual connection.
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:20.079
Right.
00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:25.599
And certainly not saying that you can't call yourself that, but I'm not going to recognize you as such.
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:26.559
That's fair.
00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:37.119
But again, it's getting those people to sit back and going, okay, let's listen to what you're saying rationally and let's quit thinking all you're doing is attacking.
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:38.079
Right.
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:39.680
All right.
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:42.880
That's the part I would love to get across to these people.
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:44.400
We're not attacking you.
00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:46.640
We're just stating our opinion.
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:53.759
And I'm sorry you don't like it at times that certain things we go and say, yeah, we do have ethics, we do have morals.
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.079
There should be some structure.
00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:03.440
You should be somewhat qualified and trained to counsel people in their problems.
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:08.960
Personally, I don't understand why in the world everybody sees what we're doing is so bad.
00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:10.480
No, I don't either.
00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:11.279
But you know.
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:15.440
Besides, they don't think they'd be able to become a part of it or whatever.
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:16.000
Oh.
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:23.200
I just I'm not saying they completely buy buy into everything or specifically our tradition.
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:23.839
Gotcha.
00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:30.640
I'm just saying they're they're starting, I think there are more and more people starting to believe, okay, I understand the reason for Covens now.
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:31.279
Okay.
00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:33.279
It's starting to make sense.
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:38.319
You know, I've played in this playground long enough to where I I'm seeing what the traditionalists are talking about here.
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:39.599
That's what gives me hope.
00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:39.920
Right.
00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:42.960
There is a certain percentage of the population that's starting to turn that way.
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:46.079
So they're they're ready for a new sandbox, right?
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:51.119
Well, again, these pendulums swing all over the place.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:52.640
Sure they do, yeah.
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:53.920
There's my point.
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:59.440
And to think anything's static in one place or another, that's where we shoot ourselves in the foot.
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:00.559
Very true.
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:01.359
Yeah.
00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:12.960
If it swung to the to the whole uh solitaire thing during the 90s, why would it not start to swing back there to more groups later?
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:13.519
Right.
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:14.720
That's all we're saying.
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:20.240
Well, let's hope so.
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:27.839
I don't know if you see it or not, but I I see somewhere it seems like you got more people agreeing with us than we have disagreeing with us nowadays.
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:39.680
Well, it's I'm seeing, I mean, usually what I see out on the forums and everything is I see a lot of I actually see a lot of traditionalists who are speaking up.
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:40.400
Right.
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:42.799
And I think that's helping a lot too.
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:45.839
This is not what y'all think it is, and all that.
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.880
I mean, we've been trying to do the same thing for a while now, too.
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:49.759
Right.
00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:52.160
But yeah, I mean, there was this phase.
00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:58.079
This did happen in the pagan community, and and and now's what we have because of that.
00:24:58.240 --> 00:24:58.559
Right.
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:03.519
Is that we have a lot of people that are completely confused, don't know what they're doing.
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:07.839
And I see a lot of people, especially when they're trying to begin, everybody complained.
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:09.440
It's so confusing.
00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:19.200
Even when I do go to the FD uh, you know, the the the what is it, the frequently asked questions, the FAQs and all this, it still don't make no sense.
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:20.880
It's still confusing and all this.
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:21.599
Right.
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:23.839
Because we rejected the teachers.
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:24.400
Yeah.
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:29.279
As a community, I'm not saying we all did, but that's what happened.
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:32.480
And now y'all have confusion.
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:45.279
And now y'all are tired of everybody getting on Reddit going, hey, I'm confused about this and this, and I keep on asking all these basic questions again, and y'all keep on turning me back to the FAQs aren't doing it for me.
00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:45.759
Right.
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:47.599
And now you have this vicious cycle.
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:51.279
Anytime you ask a beginning question, you just are told to go to an FAQ.
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:52.799
Pretty much.
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:57.359
You're not told to go to an You're not told, hey, go find a teacher.
00:25:57.599 --> 00:25:57.839
Right.
00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:00.160
Go find someone you can sit down and talk to.
00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:06.079
Again, we we replaced all our teachers with blogs, podcasts.
00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:07.440
Yeah, pretty much.
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:10.480
And witch talk and all this other stuff.
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:13.359
And you're not getting expecting Right.
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:17.839
You're you're expecting information and knowledge that you're not gonna get.
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:19.519
That you're not gonna get.
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:23.839
So I know one thing we're gonna get some more coffee.
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:27.440
Yay! Thanks for listening.
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:29.759
Join us next week for another episode.
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.920
Peg and Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary.
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:40.480
Please visit us at Life Temple Seminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media.
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:44.400
Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:50.799
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire.
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:57.920
Just hold my hand as we pass by a steel blazing pyro.
00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:05.599
And so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning breaks.
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:13.920
And so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning breaks.