Misconceptions About Wisdom in Paganism

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And so we're gonna talk about wisdom.
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Okay.
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Um so let's start with the dictionary definition.
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All right.
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The quality or state of being wise, a knowledge of what is true or right coupled with just judgment as to action.
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Uh-huh.
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All right.
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So based on the fruit.
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You know what I've always heard?
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What?
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Oh, go on.
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Based on that, what?
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No, I was gonna say, I I remember the whole entire thing, you know, knowledge is knowing that tomatoes are fruit.
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Wisdom's knowing you don't put it in a fruit salad.
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I mean, you're not wrong.
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But no, technically, I have wait a minute.
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Technically, I did learn one little thing from one of our from one of our neophytes.
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Uh-huh.
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Technically, there is no such thing as vegetables.
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Everything's a fruit.
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The huh?
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Yep.
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Okay.
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That's my other little gardening person finally told me there is no such thing.
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Vegetables is a culinary thing, not necessarily a farming thing.
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Everything's a fruit in farming.
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Okay.
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I refuse to call it that, but okay.
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There's still vegetables.
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All right.
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So anyway.
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Anyway, now that I've gone on that tie rate.
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Right, and we've gotten completely off topic.
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Um, so based on based on the definition, what do you think is the biggest misunderstanding about wisdom in the pegging community?
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Well, everybody thinks wisdom can be learnt from a book.
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Wisdom isn't that that comes from a book, it's that that comes from experience.
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Right.
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It's one thing to sit down and again, just like we were, I was just talking about Eva, it's one thing to sit down and read this little book on fermentation.
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It's another thing to actually do it.
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Right.
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That's where wisdom comes from.
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Yeah, it comes from actually doing, living, right?
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Experiencing.
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Right.
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So when you when you hear this wisdom from when you hear wisdom from people, it's because they've experienced it.
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In other words, they made that mistake and they're trying to keep you from making that mistake.
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Right.
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This is the only way you can short circuit the process of learning wisdom is to talk to someone who's already done it to some extent.
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Right.
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And I think we have a lot of people that keep on thinking that gaining knowledge is somehow wisdom.
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Hmm.
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No, wouldn't you say?
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Yeah, it's not.
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But yeah, I think that is probably the biggest problem or misunderstanding or misconception.
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See, I even say wisdom sort of like goes beyond understanding.
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And I've argued for years that there's a difference between knowing something and understanding it.
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If you know something, you can use it.
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Right.
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If you understand it, you can manipulate it to your advantage.
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Right.
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But wisdom is what comes when you start to manipulate it to your advantage and you start to realize where it's going to break, where it's not going to break, where it's going to hold.
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Which is back to experience.
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Right.
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You know, unfortunately, we have this whole entire problem in the pagan community.
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When it comes to this, nobody wanted the teacher.
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Nobody wanted anything.
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Nobody wanted to hear any of this.
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Right.
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There, there was there was a lot of that going around.
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And still is to some extent.
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And to some some extent, but and now all these elders that we had, the elders that, you know, I was around and you were trained by, and all this other stuff, they're disappearing.
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They are we are losing, we are losing that wisdom and trying to replace it with books, podcasts, vlogs.
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And I don't think it's working quite as well as we think it is.
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No, of course not.
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I mean, it can't.
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Um, but it's so hard without being face to face with someone and reading facial expressions and body language and the tone of voice and all of that, all of that comes together to convey the importance of what you're saying.
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And we miss a lot of that in the digital age because a lot of what we're getting is just audio.
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Right.
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Or just text on pages.
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And I don't have problems with text on pages.
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I wish everybody would keep in mind, depending on the mood you're in, depends on how it sounds when you read it.
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That is so true.
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I can make a lot of comments out online and stuff like this.
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And yeah, I'm sorry, if you're in a bad mood and you read it, you're gonna really think I'm an ass.
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If you're really in a good mood, you're gonna think I'm hilarious as get out.
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Well, I mean, how many times have you been banned from a subreddit because of something you said?
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That's something I said, and I'm still sitting back going, I don't see what's wrong with what I said.
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Right?
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I mean, it's not that big of a deal.
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It's not, but how are we supposed to gain wisdom in all of this if people refuse to communicate with one another?
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If we refuse to talk.
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Yeah, we just I do see this as yes, I make comments on this and I see people, well, I'm just not even going to respond to this or I'm going to ignore it altogether.
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Because I, you know, it it makes me question my beliefs.
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Wisdom tells us that don't actually happen like you think it does.
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Right.
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If you believe in something, you believe in it.
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I I this is how you wind up with the having escape people, true.
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Yeah.
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I mean, they believed.
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They truly, sincerely believed, and they did what in the world they thought.
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Yeah, I mean, yeah, you you're absolutely right.
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When you've got true belief in whatever it is, it can be pretty dynamic in and of itself.
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But again, I will sit here and argue.
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Belief is not wisdom.
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No.
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Wisdom's knowing w more of when not to speak than when to speak.
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I I sit here and and and try my best to encourage people, you need to go out and do and quit reading.
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Well, I do have a question here, because in in this definition that we gave, it mentioned just judgment.
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Yes.
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How does just judgment fit into wisdom?
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Well, it's understanding the circumstances of what's going on.
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Not every problem is the exact same.
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No, the most problems are unique unto themselves for the most part.
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Well, for the most part.
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I mean, some are pretty common.
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You have to have some wisdom there.
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Okay, because again, and uh not trying to stir up any politics here, but what's really the difference between killing someone and self-defense?
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There's some judgment there where we have to decide where that line crosses.
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So that that's that just judgment?
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Yes.
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Okay.
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Why do you think so many people ignore that part of it and just go for the knowledge?
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Because it's easier.
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It's easier to go with your gut reaction.
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It's easier to sit there and go, okay, I'm gonna stand for this and all this other stuff, but I'm not gonna actually look at the facts of what's going on.
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Wisdom tells us, okay, normally when we do this, we wind up getting ourselves in trouble later.
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It is easier to sit down, calm down, and go, hey, let's look at what's actually going on and get rid of all the stuff that really don't matter to this.
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What happened here?
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Right.
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That's wisdom.
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Wisdom's going, okay, I understand everybody's emotional.
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Calm down.
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Let's look at what actually happened.
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But that ain't what people are doing now.
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There's no judgment there.
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It's completely, automatically, I'm being attacked.
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True.
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And and honestly, that's not even knowledge.
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That's just that's just foolishness.
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Well, again, it's not just running from knowledge, it's running from wisdom too.
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For crying out loud.
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I just give you an example.
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All right.
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I put up something on our Discord, not on Discord, on our Reddit, subreddit, all right?
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Which is basically asking the question of why do we call all these things shrines instead of why do we call them all altars instead of shrines?
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Because the definition of a shrine is this, this is what y'all are doing.
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It's been out for 24 hours.
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Nobody said anything.
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Bunch of people viewed it.
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Nobody sat there going, well, maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong.
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I haven't even got go to hell.
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Right.
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My point is, why not interact?
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Why not say something?
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Why not, you know, uh, even if you disagree, it's kind of like we cannot get involved in certain conversations because we might look like idiots in the end.
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Well, you know, where my problem is, oh, I'm sorry.
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Go ahead.
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Go ahead.
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No, it's just I was just gonna say where you know, my problem is I don't mind looking like an idiot.
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I'll ask the questions.
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Well, I mean, sometimes sometimes I know like sometimes for me, I'll stay out of a conversation if I don't know anything about it.
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But if I have a question about something, if I may be listening to that conversation and I have a question, whether it's stupid or not, I'm gonna ask it.
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Because maybe it's giving me something that I don't know.
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But I have to ask this is it is it our generation?
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We were basically told to question everything.
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Pretty much, yeah.
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Or is that a Gen X thing?
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I don't know.
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It could be could be a Gen X, but the question, you know, my question to that is if it is a Gen X thing, why didn't we pass it on?
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Why not?
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I mean, because I I remember in school, there's no such thing as a stupid question.
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The only stupid question is the one that wasn't asked.
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Right, the one that wasn't asked.
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I mean, it's a good one.
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Again, that was drilled into our heads as kids.
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Right.
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If you don't ask the question, you're never gonna get the answer.
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I mean, it's that simple.
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Even if you don't really have a divested interest in the thing or anything, and you have an opinion, give it anyway.
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It doesn't make no sense the running and hiding.
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I see the commun the pagan community doing it large.
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It's kind of like we really can't afford anyone to ask questions about our beliefs because as soon as we do, we're gonna be in trouble, we're gonna have a problem.
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But nobody sees it as a way to strengthen their beliefs.
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Right.
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I don't understand that.
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I I don't either.
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And and unfortunately, you can't make it make sense.
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I mean, you just can't.
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True.
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So I do have another question here.
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Um, where does intuition fit into gaining wisdom?
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Since we're talking about wisdom, and you know, we we we do we do you know, trust your intuition, trust your instincts.
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Intuition, yes, we do.
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How does that fit into gaining wisdom?
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The way I'm gonna look at it is intuition is that moment where you walk into a room or something, and you just got that bad feeling, like you know, those parties that you go to, and as soon as you arrive, you're like, Yeah, this is not gonna end well.
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It's time to leave.
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This is when intuition and wisdom work together.
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Or you meet that person and you're busy, and then all they automatically rub you the wrong way, and you haven't even met a wrong way.
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And yeah, and wisdom kicks in going, it's time for me to get into my vehicle, go home, and get away from this place.
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Intuition is only that bad feeling, it's only a guess, it's not the full story, and we have to have wisdom to discern what in the world our intuition is telling us.
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So, why do so many people treat their intuition as some divine sanctioned wisdom?
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You got me.
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I consider our intuition part of our flight and fight and flight system.
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Mm-hmm.
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Okay.
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All right, it's the it's the precursor to that kicking in.
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It's just your body sitting there going, hey, you need to pay attention to what's going on around you right now.
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There's some things your brain is picking up on that you're not quite putting together that flows up warning signs, hey, this might not be a good idea.
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Right.
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It's like, hello, wake up.
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Hello.
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We're back to the problem is until you experience that and you don't listen to your wisdom and you keep on going and you see how bad it goes, you're never going to gain the wisdom to go, yeah, that's a bad idea when I feel bad.
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Well, now, do you think that people treating their intuition or their gut feelings like some divine message, if you will?
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Right.
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Do you think that that's creating more problems for us as pagans?
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I d actually I think it is.
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I'm not saying people don't get divine inspiration, but to me that that intuition is self-contained.
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It doesn't, it's not the gods, it's us.
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It's part of our makeup.
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Right.
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To have those feelings and stuff to kind of warn us, yeah, there there's some things here that your subconscious is like throwing up flags, going, hey, I don't think the intuition is a containment to the divine.
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So essentially or messages from the divine.
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So essentially it's it's a gift.
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You could say it's a gift from the divine.
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I could.
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But it comes from but it comes from within.
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Right.
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It it's along the lines of psychic abilities.
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It's just a little bit more subtle than actually being able to talk to spirits or any of these other things that we talk about, right?
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Intuition is a little bit less than that.
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Right.
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It's that moment where you're reading those cards and you you have that moment where you're flipping over that card and you know the meaning of that card's this, but for some reason you can't quit thinking about something else.
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That's that intuition.
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That's this card doesn't represent this for this person anymore.
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Right.
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The normal definition goes out the window, and you're looking, and again, I don't know about anybody else, but when I read cards, I that's when I normally sit there going, hey, my intuition, I have a I have a feeling.
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Is that not how we describe intuition?
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Yeah, yeah.
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So it's a feeling.
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Wisdom is the experience to know, okay, yeah, that guy's drinking way too much too fast, and he's getting too rowdy already.
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There's going to be an issue later.
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I don't want to be involved in.
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It's time to go.
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Is there the pattern of behavior?
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Right.
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So is there is there a time when say intuition and wisdom would lead to completely different actions?
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Yes.
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Can you believe so?
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Can you expand on that a little bit?
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Have you ever been on a job interview and be like talking to the balls and doing the interview, but just get a bad feeling about the interview?
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The balls, the whole nine yards, something about them just doesn't fit well.
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That's your intuition going, yeah.
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Once or twice, yeah.
00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:14.400
Yeah, all right.
00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:20.480
But yeah, when you look at the job on paper, the details, the benefits, and everything, it's good.
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:24.880
Wisdom would tell you to take the job.
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:27.039
Intuition tells you not to.
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:28.000
Gotcha.
00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:32.480
Wisdom and intuition don't always align.
00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:34.559
So again, you have to make that choice.
00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:42.720
Do I follow my intuition saying, yeah, if I get this job, me and this boss might be butting heads all the time, which won't make it a good work environment.
00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:55.039
Or do I do it anyway, keep my mouth shut, and knowing this ahead of time, that me and this guy's gonna butt heads and I'm just gonna have to eat a lot of crow to take the job because I need the benefits and everything else?
00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:03.759
That's where we're asking ourselves that question, where our where our wisdom and our intuition are not necessarily lining up.
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:15.599
Well, then, giving that they don't always line up, why do you think so many pagans push intuition over wisdom?
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:20.160
Because they want that, they want that ah moment.
00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:25.599
They want the what they're really wanting is a divine revelation, not intuition.
00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:30.720
We're back to I think we're rev uh labeling things wrong here.
00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:34.240
We've discussed that before, yeah.
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:34.880
All right.
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:41.279
Yeah, I think this I again, and I think this is where this is just nothing more than a lay uh a labeling problem.
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:46.079
Intuition is a bad feeling that you get or something to guide you one way or the other.
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:50.160
Divine revelation is just that, it's just it.
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:51.759
It makes no sense.
00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:54.079
It's the thought that pops in your head out of nowhere.
00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:54.559
Right.
00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:56.240
It's that aha moment.
00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:57.519
Right.
00:18:57.759 --> 00:18:59.519
It's the Eureka moment.
00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:00.480
Right.
00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:08.000
We like to describe it as the light bulb goes off in your head about something.
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:14.319
Or that moment, two seconds right before you use that hairdryer in the shower, and you realize it's a bad idea.
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:15.279
And why?
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:20.400
Well, yeah.
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:26.640
It makes you realize there's a reason there's a warning label here.
00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:28.000
Somebody did this.
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:32.319
Right.
00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:34.480
This to me is a lack of wisdom.
00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:39.920
This is when we see a lot of younger people do this, they lack the experience of life.
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:40.720
Right.
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:50.160
Because I mean, I I've seen the same problem with more adults getting out of college, confusing that piece of paper with experience.
00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:56.160
And they don't seem to understand, okay, what is the company actually asking for?
00:19:56.319 --> 00:19:57.920
We want you to have experience.
00:19:58.160 --> 00:19:59.519
Well, maybe not in that field.
00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:02.319
We want you to have experience working in a corporation.
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:15.440
You understand the cultures, you understand how the rules work, you understand how in the world everything is, and I'm not gonna have to sit here and explain to you and hold your hand when you get turned down for no P because you ain't got no PTO time.
00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:16.319
Right.
00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:19.039
Because you don't understand how all this works.
00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:21.119
That's what entry-level jobs are for.
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:26.720
Yeah, it's to get you used to the corporate life.
00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:27.519
Yeah.
00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:35.680
I mean, you you could think of it as the degree is your the degree is your knowledge, but without the experience, you don't have the wisdom.
00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:38.880
You don't have the wisdom to use it.
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:43.839
These things work together, but they're not necessarily and I think we get a lot of them confused.
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:48.559
We want to sit there and consider our intuition and wisdom the same thing.
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:49.519
Hmm.
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:50.400
Yeah.
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:51.920
But they're not.
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:57.200
Intuition is that thing going, no, you should not go into that dark cave.
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:04.720
Intuition is everybody watching a horror movie going, no, don't go outstairs.
00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:05.599
Right.
00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:07.519
Don't answer the phone.
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:08.720
Don't open that door.
00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:10.160
That door.
00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:16.160
If you've ever watched a horror movie in a theater, this is what wisdom is.
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:16.559
Right.
00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:19.039
I mean, that I'm sorry, that's what intuition is.
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:21.759
It's that we know it's a bad thing.
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:23.039
We know it's a bad idea.
00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:24.160
Don't do it.
00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:29.519
And I don't know why people example ever.
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.240
Well, again, that's intuition.
00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:40.160
You know, hey, yeah, you you just had some guy try to kill you multiple times and there's a knock on the door.
00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:44.400
Yeah, I'm gonna open it without thinking about it.
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:59.680
So so do you think given the way the conversation's gone, do you think that a lot of people in the community are just teaching people what to think?
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:02.400
Instead of how to think.
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:05.279
I I I I think you might be right there.
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:10.960
I think we are teaching people to be more we're telling people what to think versus how to think.
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:11.519
Right.
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:12.480
And there is a discussion.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:14.079
I see that a lot.
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:15.519
Yes.
00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:18.640
There is a big difference between that.
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:19.359
Right?
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:25.680
Getting people to think for themselves is a whole lot greater challenge than anything else.
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:26.960
It really is.
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:35.759
I mean, because again, we're we're back to this whole entire concept of if you give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day.
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:38.319
If you teach him the fish, he'll eat for a lifetime.
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:39.200
Right.
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:41.599
It's just, it's true.
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:42.559
All right.
00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:48.319
I mean, hence the reason why in the world, in every wildlife preserve, there's always a sign, do not feed the animals.
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:54.079
They become dependent on it and quit acting like animals and wait on handouts instead.
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:54.640
Right.
00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:58.559
I mean that's the food you feed them isn't as good as what they're getting.
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:10.799
I was gonna say that's pretty evident when you go to parks that do the drive-through experience things, and you know, you see them, you see the wild animals coming up to vehicles.
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:13.039
It's because people are feeding them.
00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:13.920
Yeah.
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:17.440
And it's it's changing the way they interact with the world.
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.559
It's they're so changing their behaviors.
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:20.960
Right.
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:23.200
They they become reliant on that.
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:27.039
They they you they sort of forget how to scavenge for food.
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:28.480
Exactly, yeah.
00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:31.279
You know, why should I have to scavenge?
00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:37.200
Why should I have to teach my pups to to scavenge if I can just go here and find food?
00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:42.799
I'm sorry, we I'll take the least ex resistance of, you know.
00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:43.680
Right?
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:49.680
Why use the extra energy if you can't just like everything else?
00:23:53.759 --> 00:24:00.079
I do have another question in this one I find it intriguing.
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:00.640
Okay.
00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:01.680
Okay.
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:13.680
Why do you think so many people in the community uh treat titles and degrees as proof of wisdom instead of proof of study?
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:18.319
Uh I don't see degrees as proof of wisdom.
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:32.559
I know, but I'm saying uh I'm asking why do what's your opinion on why people think uh that just because you hold a third degree, then you have large amounts of wisdom.
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:35.039
It really shouldn't be that way.
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:39.920
But again, you're looking at a progression too.
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:40.880
Well, yeah.
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:42.640
There's an experience there.
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:48.480
I mean, there's a difference between that sophomore going into school and that senior going out.
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:49.119
Right.
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:58.319
But you also know that just because the way we do our degree system is not the same way that everybody else does theirs or some other people might do theirs.
00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:06.640
So we do know that in some instances the degrees don't necessarily come with experience.
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:10.480
You you do this amount of work and you get your degree.
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:14.160
And you get your degree, or you've you've hit a level.
00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:17.359
Well, again, for us, remember it is a spiritual matter.
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:22.559
So again, just because you finish classes doesn't mean you get first degree.
00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:23.920
Right.
00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:26.640
But I'm back to perceptions.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:28.240
Right.
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:37.680
Understand the perception of it, but for people to try to link degrees to wisdom, that's a little bit of a bad idea.
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:38.640
Yeah.
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:39.519
All right.
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:49.119
It's just that you have shown proficiencies to be a priest or a priestess, and you've demonstrated that over and over again.
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:50.400
Right.
00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:54.880
Because the wisdom and the experience comes in actually doing.
00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:58.319
I mean, I I hate to be that way.
00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:03.759
You know, it you're not going to become a very wise counselor until you actually start counseling people.
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:04.400
Right.
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:06.480
I'll explain it to you this way, all right?
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:10.559
I used to be in housekeeping and I did special projects.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:13.039
So it means I did a lot of stripping and waxing floors.
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:20.240
And I would explain to people, you come to me, I can I can teach you how to strip and wax floors in two weeks.
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:24.559
It will take you about two to three years to actually become a professional.
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:25.440
Right.
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:33.920
And that that is for you to run into all the ways that goes wrong that I didn't tell you about to begin with, I didn't think of at the time.
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:34.799
Right.
00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:47.440
Because again, as simple as much, and it I know a lot of people probably sitting there rolling their eyes about this, but if you take that stripping, that stripping solution and don't add enough water in there, you got a mess later.
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:47.920
Yeah.
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:51.839
And you won't know what to do until that actually happens.
00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:55.680
I don't know if I I feel like I'm not saying it correctly.
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:05.119
Well, and that's unfortunate because for me it makes perfect sense because I've kind of been there.
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:06.160
So I don't know.
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:10.000
I mean, if if anybody has a question about that, feel free to let us know.
00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:12.640
Um we'll try to rewind differently.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:25.599
I I don't know how to say this, but yeah, I mean, hence the reason, but this is why we have certain degrees of stuff where you're required to do so many hours of act like doctors.
00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:34.079
Doctors have to be observed and have to do their clinicals, they're they're they're they're monitored the whole entire time to make sure they don't kill anybody.
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:34.559
Right.
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:36.880
But until they're in that situation.
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:53.680
Yeah, but well, I was gonna say, I think that even then, just because they walk out with a degree and the and the title of doctor or physician or whatever you want to call them, that does not give them a whole lot of wisdom.
00:27:54.160 --> 00:28:10.000
No, yes, it doesn't give them a whole lot of they've done their clinicals, they've done certain things to meet those requirements, but until they've been in the field for several years, they're not they're not really gonna gain any wisdom.
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:20.240
Because as soon as that first person that comes in who doesn't quite match up to everything completely, it starts throwing off the whole diagnosis.
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:23.440
Well, and it's the same thing with our third degrees.
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:34.640
Third degrees for us, you know, to get your third degree, you have to prove that you know how to use everything that we've given you and actually run a coven.
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:39.279
I mean, basically, because basically, how do we handle this?
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:42.480
Literally, your second degree, you're going to go for a third.
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:43.039
Fine.
00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:49.759
You're running our temple for a year, and you have me and the lady breathing down your neck the whole entire time.
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:59.359
You're making the decisions, what we're doing for ritual, what we're not doing for ritual, the timing, the scheduling, and we're sitting back going, okay.
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:00.960
We're not okay.
00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:01.440
Right.
00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:17.039
But my point is that even if you manage to get to that point and you get that third degree, it's not until you've actually been a third degree for several years that you're actually going to start gaining any wisdom.
00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:21.599
So you can't really say just because I hold this title.
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:24.400
No, I have wisdom.
00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:27.759
No, no, the wisdom comes later.
00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:30.960
Knowledge comes first, wisdom always comes later.
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:34.640
Like counseling, to be exact, okay?
00:29:34.799 --> 00:29:38.480
It's one thing to sit there and go, okay, we're going to teach you how to counsel.
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:42.079
It's another thing when you sit down to actually do it.
00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:47.200
People don't always talk the way you're trained to listen to.
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:58.160
It's easy for counselors and other stuff to, and especially priests and priests, to be pulled down a path that they really should not be going down to because of the person.
00:29:58.480 --> 00:29:59.119
Right.
00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:03.839
Because they want to think they're curse, because they want to think all this other stuff or whatever.
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:07.920
It's easy to get trapped in that emotional loop with them.
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:10.079
Yeah, it's super easy.
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:11.039
All right.
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:18.960
Without the wisdom to understand what's going on, to see it actually in process, you're never going to stop it and you're never actually going to fix the problem.
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:19.359
Right.
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:23.440
All you're going to do is reinforce what in the world the person already believes.
00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:37.519
Well, then for anyone who might be listening who feels like they need to start building wisdom or gaining wisdom instead of just like collecting facts or knowledge.
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:40.799
Where do you think they should start with that?
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:50.000
If you're if if you're doing herbs and you keep on following the same recipes over and over again, try something different.
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:53.839
Pick a random herb instead and see what happens.
00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:58.799
I'm not saying, you know, mass produce it for 50 billion people, make one little batch.
00:30:59.119 --> 00:30:59.599
Right.
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.319
That's where in the world this begins.
00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:12.079
If you've ever tried to learn how to cook, until you get into the kitchen and you accidentally grab the salt instead of the sugar, you're never actually going to learn.
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:18.799
Until you actually do the stuff, it's great to sit there and read about all these rituals and stuff.
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:22.240
It's different when you're actually doing the ritual.
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:23.359
Yeah, absolutely.
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:24.640
Are you with what I'm saying?
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.839
There's this thing in the witches uh witch's Bible complete.
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:31.039
All right.
00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:34.880
And Lord Minn was telling me about this when I was still learning.
00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:37.200
He's like, okay, we we this book came out.
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:40.880
We we did the classes before they came out with the book and the whole nine yards.
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:44.799
So they did the mail order classes from Lafarge.
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:45.279
Right.
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:46.160
All right.
00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:48.319
Before they published the book.
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:56.160
In one of these sections, they talk about how to make this special black paint to paint on your walls and all this.
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:04.079
And he's like, okay, by the time you go through all this process and stuff, let me tell you how this turns out.
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:09.440
It's easier just to go out and buy black paint and just paint your walls and call it a damn day.
00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:16.720
Because you're doing this handmade paint, it takes about two weeks to a month for it to even dry.
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:20.960
Yeah.
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:21.759
You know what?
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:22.720
And you know what?
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:27.039
Since I've took over temple, we have never done this, we will never do this.
00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:30.720
Because that's where wisdom was.
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:31.839
They did it.
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:32.720
All right.
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:39.519
I mean, I I remember him telling them about a story about when when they thought they had to get the do the whole sulfur line.
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:40.160
All right.
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:53.839
It used to believe that to create sacred space, a permanent sacred space, you had to put down this this um coke line of sulfur for King Kong and set it on fire.
00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:57.920
Do you know how hard it is to find that much sulfur?
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:00.400
Do you know how hard it is for just every day?
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:04.640
Do you know how hard it is to breathe in that much sulfur being burned?
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:08.000
Do you know how hard it is to get it to start burning?
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:11.200
Because what?
00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:19.519
The only sulfur they can find was the one that you actually find from the garden places, which was fertilizer, which don't burn that, just don't burn that well.
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:20.559
It doesn't burn.
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:22.000
But like sulfur does.
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:22.799
Right.
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:25.599
Lord.
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:28.799
So again, this is what we're talking about.
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:38.000
I mean, there's a lot of stuff in witchcraft books that sound great until you actually try to do them and you're like, uh, this don't make no sense.
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:38.799
Right.
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:40.400
There's the difference.
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:43.119
Well, I got a better idea of this, all right?
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:45.279
To to stress my point one more time.
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.200
You at one time were trying to learn how to do what incense combs.
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:50.240
Mm-hmm.
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:51.039
Yeah.
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:51.759
All right.
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:55.119
To make it even worse was you were working with Lady Keegan on this.
00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:56.640
Who knows how to do this?
00:33:56.799 --> 00:33:57.200
Mm-hmm.
00:33:57.440 --> 00:33:57.839
Yep.
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:00.559
She literally, she's she's done it enough times.
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:00.960
Yep.
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:02.240
How bad did that go?
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:03.839
Oh, it went horrible.
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:07.039
It went horrible.
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:10.159
Yeah, nothing they wouldn't burn.
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:11.760
They wouldn't they wouldn't know.
00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:13.440
Yeah, it was awful.
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:14.639
It was awful.
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:17.519
And I'm not I'm not I'm not insulting you.
00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:25.360
It's just the fact is, is for you to probably really learn, you need to be in like the same room with her, going, oh no, here's where in the world you're messing up.
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:25.920
Right.
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:26.639
Yeah.
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:30.719
Which will be that thing that's not in the instructions.
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:31.920
Absolutely.
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:32.719
Yeah.
00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:34.559
Now I have a question for you.
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:44.400
Is it that we as southerners happen to be a little bit more used to this type of process than other cultures in the United States?
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:47.440
I don't know.
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:53.199
Why why would that kind of explain why you're asking that question?
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:55.599
I'll explain it with one word.
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:57.840
Potato salad recipe.
00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:00.159
Um yeah.
00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:03.599
Are you with what I'm saying?
00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:06.159
Let me explain to everybody else, okay?
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:08.800
My family has a potato salad recipe.
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:15.199
The only way to learn this potato salad recipe is to be actually hand-taught by somebody else in the family.
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:19.599
Otherwise, when you get the recipe, it's just the list of ingredients.
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:21.920
No amount, no nothing.
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:26.079
And if you've never done it before, you don't have a clue.
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:26.960
Right.
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:32.880
This is very common in a lot of older style cooking, especially in the south.
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:43.280
I think I think there probably are some situations similar to that in other parts of the country.
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:44.159
Yeah.
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:49.119
But I do think it is a little probably a little more prevalent in the South.
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:49.760
Yeah.
00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:52.159
So yeah, maybe.
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:56.239
Maybe we've just become accustomed to it a little bit more.
00:35:56.559 --> 00:36:02.400
Accustomed to this type of behavior, and like, oh yeah, we I I know exactly what this is.
00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:03.199
Right.
00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:04.960
So maybe.
00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:06.320
Maybe.
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:09.679
Yeah, I mean, I hadn't really thought about it like that, but yeah.
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:15.119
I mean, to me, this is sort of uh the ultimate in wisdom.
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:16.639
Okay.
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:17.440
All right.
00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:20.480
Or you could look at it as the ultimate spell, too.
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:25.599
So because you're just throwing random ingredients into a bowl and mixing it all together.
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:26.960
For yeah.
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:28.320
To some extent.
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:30.480
Does this make any sense on this?
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:31.840
I think it does.
00:36:32.239 --> 00:36:32.559
All right.
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:34.159
I hope it does.
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:39.840
So from the lack of wisdom on this part.
00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:41.119
Right.
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:44.639
So this is where input comes in from other people.
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:48.320
Let's go get some coffee.
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:51.119
Thanks for listening.
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:53.440
Join us next week for another episode.
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:57.599
Pegan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary.
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:04.079
Please visit us at Life Temple Seminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media.
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.840
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00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:14.480
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00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:21.280
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