00:00:06
Speaker 1: Hi everybody, welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers.com. I am Mike Spofford, joined, as always, by my partner in everything Packers, Wes Hodkowitz. We're coming to you here from the Pottawatomie Sportsbook studio inside the walls of Lambeau Field. A lot to cover on this show, Wes, and I don't know if we're going to be able to touch on everything that we need to, but we have to start with the 20-17 loss on a walk-off field goal at Ford Field on Sunday. And I'll let you start where you want to, whether you want to talk about the penalties, whether you want to talk about the Packers in the red zone or some of the other things that went on in that game. However you slice it, this was a really, really, really tough one to swallow.
00:00:46
Speaker 2: I just think it was the definition of a frustrating loss in so many different regards. Now, obviously, I want to start with this because, you know, I belabored penalties on social media. I did a video on it. We will happily talk about it on this show. But I think if you look at it just strictly from the Packers' point of view, just too many things that they've struggled with throughout the course of this season showed up again against the Detroit Lions, right? And for as much as Alex Moore and his staff made life more difficult on Green Bay, it was also the Packers making life difficult on themselves as well. When you talk about one for four inside the red zone, two missed field goals, Josh Jacobs with the drop, on third and five, third and six, that could have potentially put that game away or at least put the Lions in a position where they had to go down and score a touchdown. They were not able to finish that opportunity. Jordan Love was hit way too often. I actually thought in the second half there were some bright spots with the run game. I thought it showed some signs of life there behind Josh Jacobs, but again, started very slowly. There were too many drops defensively, not enough pressure. on Jared Goff, and certainly Amon Ross St. Brown just went to town. And for all the production in this game, over 400 yards of total offense for Detroit, 300 and change for Green Bay, still only 37 total points. I thought this was a game where both teams might have potentially threatened over 30, but it wasn't the case. And for the Packers, I just think Again, we can talk about some of the penalty issues as well, but there's a reason why Green Bay's at 4-3 right now, and I thought this game sort of underscored a lot of those reasons.
00:02:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree with you there. The penalties are getting frustrating. There's no doubt about it. I don't want to belabor it too much, but the NFL is just embarrassing itself with the refusal to do something to get the calls correct, and they are obviously wrong on the field. So I don't want to talk too much about that because what I wrote about for the most part after the game, and I know you had a really good piece on everything that Xavier McKinney had to say, and I give a lot of credit to Xavier McKinney for standing up and saying what needed to be said in the locker room. I do understand why Matt LaFleur did not take that approach at the podium because I know what was more on Matt LaFleur's mind than the penalties was not just the one for four in the red zone, but that seven total points in the red zone in four trips. That's just awful. I mean, it was two missed field goals. It was an ill-advised fourth down that Matt LeFleur immediately regretted. You cannot get into the opposing team's red zone four times and come away with only seven points and expect to win the game, even if you get every single officiating call to go your way. That's where the Packers lost this game. And that's what's so frustrating because Yes, there's a lot of outside talk about the officials and all that. I'm not saying that it's not warranted. But for anybody who says, in my opinion, that the Packers lost this game because of the officiating, I think that's completely misguided because this game, what was in the Packers, you can't control the officiating. What was in the Packers' control was to get points. Yeah. And they didn't get enough and they had plenty of opportunity to do so.
00:04:09
Speaker 2: Tons of opportunities. And the other thing, Green Bay started very fast this season. Most of their first drives of the game have produced some type of points. This was a case where they got all the way down deep inside the red zone there. They were converting fourth downs when they kept going for fourth downs. They converted the first three of those. Kind of a chip shot field goal there that Trey Smack is unable to make, but the offense bounced back. I mean, that next series at the end of the first quarter, a nice, productive, efficient drive that ends with Jordan Love being able to maneuver the pocket, show his speed a little bit, show his legs a little bit, and buy enough time to open up Tucker Kraft on kind of sort of a scramble drill on the back of the end zone. The Packers were put in another tough spot where injuries up front, Sean Ryan gets the high ankle sprain. Immediately after that, Jacob Monk gets the quad injury. And you're down to John Williams, who has sort of apprenticed a little bit at center, but that is not his natural position.
00:05:04
Speaker 1: That's putting it mildly, I think.
00:05:07
Speaker 2: But if you go back to training camp, he was mostly working at left tackle. He played a lot of different positions, but it was left tackle where he kind of settled in as the Packers sort of projected out their offensive line. So what does that mean? That means that Jordan Love, once again, more was on his plate, more was on his shoulders to make plays, to extend plays, to absorb some hits and some contact. And again, we'll get into the roughing the passers and the fact that it's now 8-0 against Green Bay in that regard, despite the numerous times that Jordan's been hit this year. But I think when you, again, go back to the controllables, right, it's the players around Jordan Love that need to start you know, picking things up and being able to help out their quarterback, whether it be with the drops, whether it be with the production, whether it be with some of the things they're doing, running the ball, uh, there's just not been enough of that so far. So, um, yeah, a very disappointing outcome in this one, in addition to, um, a lot of penalties that, uh, I think everybody was left scratching their head about afterwards.
00:06:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt. I mean, my hat is off to John Williams and the job that unbelievable, you know, to come in. I mean, that would have, that would have been a tough assignment at Lambeau field and to, for him to be the number three center and get thrust in there in the beginning, you're on the road, noisy environment, having to, you know, run the silent count and all the communication that's required that is so much more difficult, um, you know, in a dome on the road and all that. Um, did really, really well. And, and we'll see, he may need to be called on again. There, there potentially are some other options if the Packers want to go that route on this short week, Thursday night in Carolina. But, um, but Williams certainly, uh, certainly gives them a viable option there to keep going.
00:06:43
Speaker 2: He certainly does. And Mike, the thing that was most surprising to me, we always talk about the next man up. He was the last man up. If John Williams, something happens there, none of those other guys, to the best of my knowledge, snapped before. You mentioned the other options Green Bay has. Well, that's Jagger Burton and that's Donovan Jennings. Both of those guys were inactive. I don't know the path or the history of a Kevin Zeitler or a Lakin Tomlinson. Maybe Lakin did it at Duke. I'm not sure. Certainly hasn't done it in the NFL. And Travis Glover is a converted tackle that has been playing guard. And then we found out afterwards on the injury report on Monday, he actually has a knee injury that had him as did not participate estimation on Monday. So Green Bay is going through it right now. Jacob Monk has been placed on IR. Mekhi Becton is now up on the 53-man roster. So they have another option there. But especially if Sean's going to be down a little bit of time here too, and he's been one of the most durable pieces of this offensive line, the Packers are going to have to get even more flexible up front.
00:07:39
Speaker 1: Yeah. And you mentioned before, you know, Jacobs, I think he provided a little bit of a spark to the running game in the second half. It took a while for some of those holes to develop and for some things to work. He obviously had a great 25 yard catch and run tight roping the sideline, you know, that type of play from a Packers running back in the passing game. We haven't really seen too much of that so far this season. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to catch the third down pass in the red zone last in the last few minutes of the game that then led to the missed kick that kept the game tied there as Detroit got the ball back for the final possession. I do want to talk about the defense though here too because the Lions had a lot of production. They had a lot of explosive plays. I think the defense caught a couple of breaks. I know, I guess I was going to ask you, end of the first half when the Lions fumble inside the 10 yard line. They're looking like they're going in to get seven. They're at a minimum going to get three points there. I think they credited Isaiah McDuffie with a forced fumble, but Was that kind of a friendly fire thing? Did the Packers just get lucky there, or did McDuffie really knock that ball out? Well, no.
00:08:49
Speaker 2: Isaiah, if you watch the play, he kind of gets knocked back. He's down on the ground. I never saw a good look at it, so I was curious how that turned out. Jameer Gibbs had just terrible ball security on the play. It was almost like if you run headfirst into a wall and you're not really paying attention to what is going on with the football anymore. Just a very lazy play on Gibbs' perspective. But I think why they credit Isaiah is it's the nearest defender. It's the guy that was in there. I mean, the... Lions had numbers on that play. I mean, Isaiah was sort of the only one standing up. They had almost three offensive linemen getting into the second level there, but Gibbs just doesn't protect the ball. And yeah, there were so many small errors that Detroit made in this game. And honestly, what it ended up coming down to, I went into the game thinking it was going to be all about the explosive plays. And to a certain extent it was, because that was really the biggest difference. Some of the downfield posts that they were able to run over the middle for big gains. But realistically, it just kind of came down to which team made fewer mistakes. Yeah.
00:09:46
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I thought the Lions were making their share of mistakes along the way. The fumble at the end of the first half, the fumble at the beginning of the second half. I mean, the Lions essentially are in position to double up on Green Bay and they end up getting nothing out of those two possessions and the Packers get the recovery off the fumbled snap to start the third quarter and Green Bay goes in and gets a touchdown and the game kind of changed there. But then the one moment the Packers defensively didn't take advantage of the break was Evan Williams missing the interception that hit him in the hands. He could have run that one back a long way because he had his momentum. He broke on the ball perfectly. He would have had a shot to maybe take that one of the house. That's one of those that you really regret because overall what was a, I won't say great, but I guess I would say against that offense in that building and as explosive as they are, The Packers' defense was holding its own. They were doing all right, and they needed that one more play, and unfortunately it was there for Williams to make, and he's made them all season long until that moment, and that was really a tough break.
00:10:56
Speaker 2: For sure, and those are the type of plays you've got to make. Those are the money plays. Those are the ones that get you paid. The one thing I will say and why I think ultimately Green Bay's defense is going to be pretty darn good this year The first half, they gave up way too many yards, but they were opportunistic. They were good inside the red zone. They found ways to keep Detroit off the board. In the second half, they made the adjustments. A lot of quick three and outs and just Detroit not being able to move the football. They were, again, very good against Jameer Gibbs. Jameer Gibbs did not have a big run. He made some plays, but I mean, it was a 24 for 99 type of game. The problem was it was some of those big gashes that they gave up, the Jamison William touchdowns, that type of things. Um, that, and then, and then obviously you can, again, go into roughing the passer on Brenton Cox Jr. Ends up leading into a touchdown. Like there's these small things that end up happening throughout the course of this game. Um, but, uh, yeah, certainly I think Green Bay, given the fact that Zyre Franklin, they found out on Thursday was not going to be available. I tipped my cap to McDuffie for the job he did. He was the Johnny on the spot player during the botched, uh, handoff exchange, uh, between Goff and Cade Mays, who was making his return in this game, their, their starting center. So, Yeah, I thought by and large, I mean, 400 total yards is 412 yards. That's not a good day. But Green Bay's defense gave them a chance to win this game.
00:12:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a tip of the cap as well to Brandon Cisse because that one drive in the third quarter where there was at least a penalty or two on that drive that the Packers were kind of scratching their head. One of them was against Cisse where he gets called for DPI and it wipes out his own interception. and then the Lions are in goal to go. They ultimately decide to go for it after Cisse breaks up the third down pass in the end zone, and then he gets the push out of Jamison Williams in the back of the end zone on fourth down to prevent the Lions from getting any points on that drive. I mean, I thought that was, I mean, we've talked plenty about Cisse, of course, but I mean, for a young player and to have that moment taken away from him by a flag and then to come back just a few plays later and to make those back-to-back plays in the end zone to keep this game within reach for Green Bay and to give the offense a chance. You can't say enough about what that rookie has meant to this defense.
00:13:18
Speaker 2: No, you can't at all, especially with all the questions at that position going into the season. He talks about his relationship with Stephon Gilmore, and the more I watch his play style, the more I see parallels. The fact that when this guy is not just 21 years old, when he's 25, when he has some seasoning underneath his belt, if he stays healthy, what his ceiling and what the potential looks like for him in this defense. He's just such a heady player. He's such an athletic player, and he's not afraid of the fire. He just embraces it. Now, he wasn't perfect. There was a couple times that he got beat too, but those plays are going to come together for him. He's smart enough, he's intelligent enough, and he's athletic enough to be able to overcome some of that early adversity. And the Packers have desperately needed him. I will say here, just to correct myself, I don't need any more Lions fans in my mentions. There's already been so many of them. The roughing the passer on Brenton Cox Jr., that was on the series where Cissé nearly got the pick. It was on the series where Cissé ended up getting the back-to-back. So the Packers did earn the stop there, the roughing the passer that continued the drive. was over on Carl Brooks later on.
00:14:24
Speaker 1: On the final drive of the game, yeah. Well, as I said, I'm not going to belabor the point, but before we turn the page to Carolina, with regard to the penalties, and I'm not going to go through chapter and verse on every single one of them, but you know this, Wes. I have been saying, I mean, you and I have been writing Insider Inbox for, what, this is the 11th season?
00:14:48
Speaker 2: 11th season for me. Obviously, you went back to the Aspen case.
00:14:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I only kind of filled in occasionally back then, so I don't consider myself a regular writer of the column then.
00:14:56
Speaker 2: You're like a supporting cast on SNL.
00:14:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. It's been a decade now that I can't even count how many times I have written, I have said you know, why doesn't the NFL just make the safety rules reviewable? Take the safety rules out of the hands of the officials on the field. Let the eye in the sky adjudicate the safety stuff and let the officials on the field figure out the rest. You know, it just, it seems, it seems so obvious. And you have a game like this where, where it just, it just gets out of hand where these major calls, these 15 yard penalties are just flat out wrong. And, Here's the thing. I understand the league does not want to get into having replay reviews where flags are thrown from New York, so to speak, from the replay center. So if you want to have it where, okay, the replay center can review and pick up a flag, okay, fine. I can live with the missed helmet-to-helmet hit Branch and Tucker Craft early. I can live with that if they miss it. but what's really hard is when these 15 yard penalties that you could very easily confirm or disprove by replay are just allowed to stand. Um, and, and 15 yard penalties impact football games. And again, I will not say the Packers lost this game because the officials, because of the officials, because I simply don't believe that, but 15 yard penalties impact football games in a major way. And, uh, um, For the NFL to continue to keep its head in the sand on this in terms of doing what is necessary to get these calls right, it's embarrassing for the league.
00:16:42
Speaker 2: It is, Michael. And unfortunately for the NFL, considering you and I have spent years talking about this now, they are so many years behind now. We've been saying since 2021, 2022, there's things that have to change. There's adjustments they have to make. They need to embrace technology. The league has not embraced technology. It has nothing to do with, okay, well, we're going to use the whatever the aerial thing to determine what's the first down, you're still subjectively putting the ball in a spot and then making a determination based on what the computer says and whether or not that's a first down rather than having two, you know, 55 year old guys running out with chains. Uh, the fact is, and I wrote this in insider inbox, you know, you look at ABS in major league baseball, what that's done and actually made the game better. Uh, it's it's, there's a strategy to it. You know, how are you going to use your challenges? It's efficient. And by the way, umpires get over themselves. They're like, yeah, I missed that call. It was on the corner. Move on.
00:17:33
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't think, and I don't think anybody, when you look at baseball, I don't want to go too far on a tangent here. I don't think anybody blames the umpire when a sliver of the ball catches the strike zone and he calls it a ball or the ball barely misses the strike zone and he called it a strike and the ABS overturns it, whatever. Like, I don't think there's any animosity whatsoever with, with the umpire, the players. And, you know, it's like, Hey, it is what it is, but we're going to use technology to the best of our ability, I still think major league baseball should just go fully automated and forget the challenges and the strategy because you can do it without slowing down the game. So let's get every call right. But that's my opinion. The NFL can use replay and the closer looks at these plays for calls that have a major, major impact on the the flow of a game and, and, um, and how a game unfolds. Um, and they just, they, they refuse to do it. And I, I think it's, I think it's a, it's a disservice to the players and to the fans that watch this game.
00:18:34
Speaker 2: Well, and that's balls and strikes, right? Um, let's look at the NBA flagrant ones, flagrant twos are all upon review. Um, and that isn't just college basketball too. I saw it at a, a GB basketball game. You have to use this.
00:18:45
Speaker 1: And college football goes after the, helmet shots with the targeting thing. And they, they, they stop the game to look at it, to make sure that, you know, if somebody, if somebody makes helmet to helmet contact, obviously the rule is harsher where you get ejected from the game. But, uh, but that's a sign that the safety part is taken pretty darn seriously.
00:19:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:19:03
Speaker 1: And, uh, and, and, and the, and the NFL, as we talked about before, you have flags that aren't fined and fines that aren't flagged and, you know, everything else, the, the, the incongruity of it all. is embarrassing. Yeah.
00:19:17
Speaker 2: The, the flag thing, or at least the, the safety thing. I, I don't, I don't see a correlation with the national football league. I don't, I don't, I don't, I've covered the league for 10, 15 years now, uh, 10 years here, five years earlier with the press Gazette. Sure. Um, if, if there's an emphasis there, I don't, I haven't seen it. I see yearly emphasis is emphases. Uh, but, but it hasn't been consistent enough. And I want to say this too, before we go, cause there's so many different things. about this game, you could talk about the roughing the pass. You can talk about the intentional grounding. Yeah. Um, you know, the, the taunting thing that I kind of went in on, on social media nfl social accounts uh promoting that um was very odd and bizarre to me.
00:19:56
Speaker 1: Sorry i just i continue i i can't help but laugh at that because i just think that's all.
00:20:00
Speaker 2: Which again i'm not silly there's a lot of lions fans that are all up in my business about it i'm not saying i'm not begrudging the lions at all it's an exciting play good for you um Matthew Golden had money taken out of his wallet a week earlier for flexing. Yeah. Okay. I guess it wasn't enough of a good firework clip for the National Football League to profit off of. I'm not sure.
00:20:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:20:20
Speaker 2: But I just want to mention this because I know there was a lot of consternation about the third down at the end of the game where Green Bay jumps off sides. One thing, again, I'm not expecting Alex Moore's crew to catch this considering a lot of the blatant stuff they missed. I mean, Cade Mays is literally on Jared Goff's cadence, opening his left hand every single time they're doing that. That's a false start. Yeah. Alex Moore's crew is not going to catch that. And if you're a defensive tackle, yeah, should, should, do you got to stay within your rules? Do you got to understand what, what the game is at that point and what could happen if it's a first down?
00:20:54
Speaker 1: Sure.
00:20:55
Speaker 2: But when you go back to the player safety rules and why the eye in the sky maybe should be overseeing a lot of this. so that the officials on the field can actually start to get some of these calls right.
00:21:05
Speaker 1: That's, that's been, that's been my point all along. I mean, and this is where I try not to get too, I try not to get too upset at the officials on the field. I mean, I, I, the, just the blatant misinterpretation of rules and everything by Alex Moore's crew is a whole nother story, but in the larger general sense, big picture here for years now, the NFL has simply made the officials jobs way too hard.
00:21:31
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:21:31
Speaker 1: With all the rules, everything they're piling on everything. And, and that's what I go back to is if you just, if you take the safety rules, which have been so many of those have been added over the last 10 years, 15 years, if you take the safety rules and put that in the purview of replay and let the officials on the field focus on all the other stuff, then the officiating in this league of all the other stuff, gets way better. There's no doubt in my mind that that would happen. And to me, it's a simple cause and effect.
00:22:04
Speaker 2: Yeah. And to be honest with you, I can't believe Alex Moore was actually an umpire on Bill Vinovich's cruise. He must not have got much out of that. To me, I've said it before, I think Vinovich is the gold standard of this thing. I think he's one of the few guys that have in terms of way that the game has been officiated, probably should be officiated.
00:22:24
Speaker 1: And before Vinovich, it was probably Gene Sterritore.
00:22:26
Speaker 2: Sterritore, and Sterritore's in a booth now making probably a lot more money.
00:22:30
Speaker 1: Making a lot more cash.
00:22:31
Speaker 2: Dean Blandino is making a lot more money doing referee stuff for Fox than I'm sure what the league paid him in those four or five years that he was the head of officiating, which to me, people always hear me talk about Blandino, but he was the one that kind of got them out of that darkness of 2012. after everything that happened with, you know, the replacement refs and all these other little issues they ran into. And then look when he left in 17, what immediately followed. OPIs in the playoffs. And again, Packers lost that game, no doubt about it. But to all the people that get upset and say, oh, this or that about the Packers, come to playoffs when it's your team in a best of one, not a best of three, not a best of seven, a best of one for 60 minutes. And something comes back and, you know, bites you that way. Remember these moments. Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:19
Speaker 1: Well, all right. I said we weren't going to belabor it. We did anyway. Oh, well, that's why the show is called Packers Unscripted. We do need to turn the page.
00:23:26
Speaker 2: We're not hourly employees.
00:23:27
Speaker 1: We do need to turn the page to Carolina, and we will do that after this quick word from our sponsors. Sirius XM NFL Radio delivers hard-hitting analysis and up-to-the-minute NFL news that true football fanatics need 24-7, 365. Did you know Lambeau Field is just one of our state's many wonders? Start making unforgettable memories on your next vacation. Discover Granddad Bluff and more at TravelWisconsin.com slash wonders. Welcome back to Packers Unscripted. Short week, Wes, Thursday night football. It'll be here at Lambeau against Carolina. And while the Packers are at 4-3 and in last place in the NFC North, the Carolina Panthers are at 3-3 and in first place in the NFC South. just in case you didn't think this league was crazy enough. But for those who are thinking, oh, Carolina, they just got destroyed by a division rival, Tampa Bay, 43-13 on Sunday. This should be a get-right game for Green Bay, yada, yada, yada. Well, don't forget that last year, right before Carolina came to Lambeau Field, they were blasted 40-9 by the Buffalo Bills. And what did Carolina do Dave Canales, that staff, Bryce Young, the quarterback, they did what it took to come into Lambeau and pull the upset of Green Bay. And, uh, and one of those, you know, tough head scratching losses for the Packers last year, Green Bay cannot let that happen again.
00:25:00
Speaker 2: No, cannot. Um, this is going to be a tough one. I wrote in inbox today that this is a dangerous, dangerous football team. Uh, Bryce Young has had some big games this year. Did not have one of them on Sunday against Tampa.
00:25:12
Speaker 1: No, that was not his best.
00:25:14
Speaker 2: But he's been airing it out more. You can see the confidence in his arm more. And he has two really talented receivers. I think Ted McMillan is probably, within the next two years, if not, he's already there, probably going to be in the conversation for top wideouts in the league. I think Jalen Coker, he's dealing with a shoulder injury this week. I don't know what that's going to mean for him. Maybe it's nothing. But those two guys won too. There's so much there that they're built in a similar way of Green Bay where they're going to pass the ball. Chuba Hubbard, I've said this for years. He didn't have a great game again against Tampa on Sunday, but he is one of the most underrated running backs that nobody talks about. And he is consistent. He's been there for years. They extended him. They've had other guys come in. There were Christian McCaffrey's. You look at last year with Rico Dowdle, they've had different guys, the man, but Chuba has always been the standard. He's been the one you can count on. And now that they lost Brooks again, he's having to be the back. And then the only thing I will say, though, much like Green Bay, Carolina is very beat up. They've gone through a lot of injuries this year going back to the offseason program. They don't have either top cornerbacks right now. Jalen Phillips, there's questions of whether or not he's going to be available for this one. That is one thing to definitely keep an eye on.
00:26:27
Speaker 1: And they just lost their right tackle against Tampa Bay. A terrible injury there for him as he's carted off the field and his season is over. Yeah, I mean, McMillan was a top 10 pick in the draft for a reason, right? And maybe it didn't show up right away as a rookie, but it's starting to show up now. Bryce Young was the number one overall pick in the draft for a reason. And again, it didn't necessarily show up right away. but the development is there. You can see it. And when you talk about the confidence part of it, you can see the confidence that the Carolina coaching staff is gaining in Bryce Young because of how they're calling the game, how they're letting him run the show out there. He's got a 93 passer rating on the season right now, which maybe doesn't jump off the page. It was a lot better than that before a rough game against Tampa Bay last week. But This offense, this offense is, is dangerous. And I love what you said about Chuba Hubbard too, because, uh, because yeah, he's sort of like in some ways, the guy they're always trying to replace, but yet he won't go away. And whenever there's an injury or if they need him to be the number one back, like he has been now because Rico Dowdle left, um, he's, he delivers, you know, he, he comes through for them defensively. There's a lot of questions with the Panthers. You meant you mentioned some of the injuries. They also will be coming into Lambeau Field just as Dallas was a couple of weeks ago. They're coming into Lambeau with the league's worst run defense. The Packers now have Josh Jacobs. He's got one game under his belt. We'll see if that makes a difference and if the Packers can establish more on the ground. But I pull this out, you know, whatever, three or four times a season going into a game based on where the Packers are in their season, the importance of the game, what's happened to Green Bay and everything. And this is one of those that I'm going to say it. This game is not about the Carolina Panthers. This game is about the Green Bay Packers playing their own football game in their own yard under the lights on Thursday night football and taking care of business. Because if the Packers play their game, this is a game that they win.
00:28:28
Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah. And the Packers have to run the football. They have to run the football. You have to do it. They didn't take advantage of Dallas being the last.
00:28:36
Speaker 1: Ranked run off. No, they didn't. And I thought that was going to potentially be the turning point for the running game, and it wasn't. And the running game needs to find that turning point here soon.
00:28:45
Speaker 2: Tampa ran for 258 yards on Sunday. Baker Mayfield threw for 64. I mean, that's the type of game that that was.
00:28:54
Speaker 1: And there's 43 points on the board.
00:28:55
Speaker 2: And there's 43 points on the board. So you talk about at times where a running game can be a quarterback's best friend. By the way, 64 passing yards still had over 100 passer rating, though, with the touchdown. They just were able to do everything they wanted to against Carolina. I'm not saying the Packers are going to be able to match that, but this is a game where it would behoove Green Bay to get over 100 rushing yards. Again, it'll be really interesting to see what the machination is going to look like on the offensive line. Is Travis Glover available? Could this be the Kevin Zeitler debut? Who starts at center? All things Green Bay is going to have to figure out. But one thing we do know, and Josh Jacobs talked about it afterwards, Jacobs is going to be four days better. He's going to be one week better from that experience in Detroit. And I think when you see his ability to break tackles, to run through coverings, to find holes, that's only going to improve. But it's going to be that marriage between what Green Bay can do with its offensive line and what Jacobs in the backfield is going to be able to kind of pull out of that. Yeah.
00:29:54
Speaker 1: Um, very quickly, any other keys to victory that jump out to you aside from the obvious, the running game?
00:30:00
Speaker 2: Protect Jordan Love. Um, because if you can give Love time in this game, there's going to be big play opportunities. Like I said, they're, they're down both, you know, JC Horns on IR, um, they're down there, their top two corners. So, uh, for Christian Watson and Matthew Golden, I think the easiest way, the best way to work through some of these drops issues that Green Bay has had is just to keep feeding them, just to keep going to them. Um, and then as I talked about in our little takeaway video, I really love what Savion Williams is bringing to the slot. Six foot four, he is not your traditional slot, but he's really not your traditional receiver either. So without knowing you're not going to get Jaden Reed back this year and without Sky Moore right now, he's made some really big contested catches across the middle where I thought he showed a lot of moxie, a lot of hands, and you need those secondary pieces. I think Tucker Kraft is getting going. He had some good plays on Sunday in Detroit.
00:30:51
Speaker 1: That was a nice touchdown catch he had, by the way.
00:30:54
Speaker 2: Nice touchdown catch, and then obviously stood up on that play after branches helmet to helmet. Green Bay has all the tools, man. I think the frustrating thing beyond the penalties has just been the fact that Green Bay has not been able to implement all of them at the same time, absent, I guess, that game against Chicago.
00:31:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, and when you look at what's going on in the NFC North this week, the importance of this game for the Packers just jumps out. If you win this game, get yourself to 5-3. 6-0 Minnesota is at 4-2 Detroit. So one of the teams in front of you is going to take a loss, barring an overtime tie, of course. And then Chicago is at Seattle. I believe that's the Monday night football game coming up this week. And Seattle seems to have righted the ship. Really strong performance against the Kansas City Chiefs. Handed the Chiefs their first loss. If the bears go out to Seattle and get beat, they get their third loss. I mean, for as frustrating as everything was about Detroit and, and, and division losses are, you know, are hard to overcome. They're going to, they're going to linger in this division race all the way to the end. But if you can get to five and three on Thursday night, and then you sit back and watch what happens in the rest of the NFC North over the weekend, you can come into the second half of the season off this little mini buy over the weekend and And, uh, and just, you know, crank up and get ready to go.
00:32:18
Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's what this is about. You need to be able to build some momentum going into this buy, this mini buy. Cause the problem is I was talking to my great friend, Scott Venci on my way to, uh, the office this morning. I said, man, it would be really nice after this game, if it really was the buy. But the reality is the Packers got another month yet to go before they even get to whatever you want to call that buy between the fake, the fake buy. So there's many buys and there's fake buys this season. You know what it is? You know what this buy is this year? It's like a two for one where it's like, OK, well, you're getting those first few days off and then you got to come back and play the Rams. But then you're going to have another few days off.
00:32:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, whatever.
00:32:54
Speaker 2: National Football League catch the fever.
00:32:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, well. We're getting close to the midway point of the season. We will see what all of the standings in the NFC North look like after the next several days. We won't have another show this week on Thursday because we have a game to cover, so we'll be back next Tuesday to recap everything else that's gone on at Lambeau Field and elsewhere around the league. But with that, we've got to call it a wrap for now on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team and of Thursday night's game From Lambeau Field, we'll have it all for you on Packers.com. For Wes, I am Mike. Thank you for tuning in, everybody, and we will.
Speaker 1: Hi everybody, welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers.com. I am Mike Spofford, joined, as always, by my partner in everything Packers, Wes Hodkowitz. We're coming to you here from the Pottawatomie Sportsbook studio inside the walls of Lambeau Field. A lot to cover on this show, Wes, and I don't know if we're going to be able to touch on everything that we need to, but we have to start with the 20-17 loss on a walk-off field goal at Ford Field on Sunday. And I'll let you start where you want to, whether you want to talk about the penalties, whether you want to talk about the Packers in the red zone or some of the other things that went on in that game. However you slice it, this was a really, really, really tough one to swallow.
00:00:46
Speaker 2: I just think it was the definition of a frustrating loss in so many different regards. Now, obviously, I want to start with this because, you know, I belabored penalties on social media. I did a video on it. We will happily talk about it on this show. But I think if you look at it just strictly from the Packers' point of view, just too many things that they've struggled with throughout the course of this season showed up again against the Detroit Lions, right? And for as much as Alex Moore and his staff made life more difficult on Green Bay, it was also the Packers making life difficult on themselves as well. When you talk about one for four inside the red zone, two missed field goals, Josh Jacobs with the drop, on third and five, third and six, that could have potentially put that game away or at least put the Lions in a position where they had to go down and score a touchdown. They were not able to finish that opportunity. Jordan Love was hit way too often. I actually thought in the second half there were some bright spots with the run game. I thought it showed some signs of life there behind Josh Jacobs, but again, started very slowly. There were too many drops defensively, not enough pressure. on Jared Goff, and certainly Amon Ross St. Brown just went to town. And for all the production in this game, over 400 yards of total offense for Detroit, 300 and change for Green Bay, still only 37 total points. I thought this was a game where both teams might have potentially threatened over 30, but it wasn't the case. And for the Packers, I just think Again, we can talk about some of the penalty issues as well, but there's a reason why Green Bay's at 4-3 right now, and I thought this game sort of underscored a lot of those reasons.
00:02:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree with you there. The penalties are getting frustrating. There's no doubt about it. I don't want to belabor it too much, but the NFL is just embarrassing itself with the refusal to do something to get the calls correct, and they are obviously wrong on the field. So I don't want to talk too much about that because what I wrote about for the most part after the game, and I know you had a really good piece on everything that Xavier McKinney had to say, and I give a lot of credit to Xavier McKinney for standing up and saying what needed to be said in the locker room. I do understand why Matt LaFleur did not take that approach at the podium because I know what was more on Matt LaFleur's mind than the penalties was not just the one for four in the red zone, but that seven total points in the red zone in four trips. That's just awful. I mean, it was two missed field goals. It was an ill-advised fourth down that Matt LeFleur immediately regretted. You cannot get into the opposing team's red zone four times and come away with only seven points and expect to win the game, even if you get every single officiating call to go your way. That's where the Packers lost this game. And that's what's so frustrating because Yes, there's a lot of outside talk about the officials and all that. I'm not saying that it's not warranted. But for anybody who says, in my opinion, that the Packers lost this game because of the officiating, I think that's completely misguided because this game, what was in the Packers, you can't control the officiating. What was in the Packers' control was to get points. Yeah. And they didn't get enough and they had plenty of opportunity to do so.
00:04:09
Speaker 2: Tons of opportunities. And the other thing, Green Bay started very fast this season. Most of their first drives of the game have produced some type of points. This was a case where they got all the way down deep inside the red zone there. They were converting fourth downs when they kept going for fourth downs. They converted the first three of those. Kind of a chip shot field goal there that Trey Smack is unable to make, but the offense bounced back. I mean, that next series at the end of the first quarter, a nice, productive, efficient drive that ends with Jordan Love being able to maneuver the pocket, show his speed a little bit, show his legs a little bit, and buy enough time to open up Tucker Kraft on kind of sort of a scramble drill on the back of the end zone. The Packers were put in another tough spot where injuries up front, Sean Ryan gets the high ankle sprain. Immediately after that, Jacob Monk gets the quad injury. And you're down to John Williams, who has sort of apprenticed a little bit at center, but that is not his natural position.
00:05:04
Speaker 1: That's putting it mildly, I think.
00:05:07
Speaker 2: But if you go back to training camp, he was mostly working at left tackle. He played a lot of different positions, but it was left tackle where he kind of settled in as the Packers sort of projected out their offensive line. So what does that mean? That means that Jordan Love, once again, more was on his plate, more was on his shoulders to make plays, to extend plays, to absorb some hits and some contact. And again, we'll get into the roughing the passers and the fact that it's now 8-0 against Green Bay in that regard, despite the numerous times that Jordan's been hit this year. But I think when you, again, go back to the controllables, right, it's the players around Jordan Love that need to start you know, picking things up and being able to help out their quarterback, whether it be with the drops, whether it be with the production, whether it be with some of the things they're doing, running the ball, uh, there's just not been enough of that so far. So, um, yeah, a very disappointing outcome in this one, in addition to, um, a lot of penalties that, uh, I think everybody was left scratching their head about afterwards.
00:06:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt. I mean, my hat is off to John Williams and the job that unbelievable, you know, to come in. I mean, that would have, that would have been a tough assignment at Lambeau field and to, for him to be the number three center and get thrust in there in the beginning, you're on the road, noisy environment, having to, you know, run the silent count and all the communication that's required that is so much more difficult, um, you know, in a dome on the road and all that. Um, did really, really well. And, and we'll see, he may need to be called on again. There, there potentially are some other options if the Packers want to go that route on this short week, Thursday night in Carolina. But, um, but Williams certainly, uh, certainly gives them a viable option there to keep going.
00:06:43
Speaker 2: He certainly does. And Mike, the thing that was most surprising to me, we always talk about the next man up. He was the last man up. If John Williams, something happens there, none of those other guys, to the best of my knowledge, snapped before. You mentioned the other options Green Bay has. Well, that's Jagger Burton and that's Donovan Jennings. Both of those guys were inactive. I don't know the path or the history of a Kevin Zeitler or a Lakin Tomlinson. Maybe Lakin did it at Duke. I'm not sure. Certainly hasn't done it in the NFL. And Travis Glover is a converted tackle that has been playing guard. And then we found out afterwards on the injury report on Monday, he actually has a knee injury that had him as did not participate estimation on Monday. So Green Bay is going through it right now. Jacob Monk has been placed on IR. Mekhi Becton is now up on the 53-man roster. So they have another option there. But especially if Sean's going to be down a little bit of time here too, and he's been one of the most durable pieces of this offensive line, the Packers are going to have to get even more flexible up front.
00:07:39
Speaker 1: Yeah. And you mentioned before, you know, Jacobs, I think he provided a little bit of a spark to the running game in the second half. It took a while for some of those holes to develop and for some things to work. He obviously had a great 25 yard catch and run tight roping the sideline, you know, that type of play from a Packers running back in the passing game. We haven't really seen too much of that so far this season. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to catch the third down pass in the red zone last in the last few minutes of the game that then led to the missed kick that kept the game tied there as Detroit got the ball back for the final possession. I do want to talk about the defense though here too because the Lions had a lot of production. They had a lot of explosive plays. I think the defense caught a couple of breaks. I know, I guess I was going to ask you, end of the first half when the Lions fumble inside the 10 yard line. They're looking like they're going in to get seven. They're at a minimum going to get three points there. I think they credited Isaiah McDuffie with a forced fumble, but Was that kind of a friendly fire thing? Did the Packers just get lucky there, or did McDuffie really knock that ball out? Well, no.
00:08:49
Speaker 2: Isaiah, if you watch the play, he kind of gets knocked back. He's down on the ground. I never saw a good look at it, so I was curious how that turned out. Jameer Gibbs had just terrible ball security on the play. It was almost like if you run headfirst into a wall and you're not really paying attention to what is going on with the football anymore. Just a very lazy play on Gibbs' perspective. But I think why they credit Isaiah is it's the nearest defender. It's the guy that was in there. I mean, the... Lions had numbers on that play. I mean, Isaiah was sort of the only one standing up. They had almost three offensive linemen getting into the second level there, but Gibbs just doesn't protect the ball. And yeah, there were so many small errors that Detroit made in this game. And honestly, what it ended up coming down to, I went into the game thinking it was going to be all about the explosive plays. And to a certain extent it was, because that was really the biggest difference. Some of the downfield posts that they were able to run over the middle for big gains. But realistically, it just kind of came down to which team made fewer mistakes. Yeah.
00:09:46
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I thought the Lions were making their share of mistakes along the way. The fumble at the end of the first half, the fumble at the beginning of the second half. I mean, the Lions essentially are in position to double up on Green Bay and they end up getting nothing out of those two possessions and the Packers get the recovery off the fumbled snap to start the third quarter and Green Bay goes in and gets a touchdown and the game kind of changed there. But then the one moment the Packers defensively didn't take advantage of the break was Evan Williams missing the interception that hit him in the hands. He could have run that one back a long way because he had his momentum. He broke on the ball perfectly. He would have had a shot to maybe take that one of the house. That's one of those that you really regret because overall what was a, I won't say great, but I guess I would say against that offense in that building and as explosive as they are, The Packers' defense was holding its own. They were doing all right, and they needed that one more play, and unfortunately it was there for Williams to make, and he's made them all season long until that moment, and that was really a tough break.
00:10:56
Speaker 2: For sure, and those are the type of plays you've got to make. Those are the money plays. Those are the ones that get you paid. The one thing I will say and why I think ultimately Green Bay's defense is going to be pretty darn good this year The first half, they gave up way too many yards, but they were opportunistic. They were good inside the red zone. They found ways to keep Detroit off the board. In the second half, they made the adjustments. A lot of quick three and outs and just Detroit not being able to move the football. They were, again, very good against Jameer Gibbs. Jameer Gibbs did not have a big run. He made some plays, but I mean, it was a 24 for 99 type of game. The problem was it was some of those big gashes that they gave up, the Jamison William touchdowns, that type of things. Um, that, and then, and then obviously you can, again, go into roughing the passer on Brenton Cox Jr. Ends up leading into a touchdown. Like there's these small things that end up happening throughout the course of this game. Um, but, uh, yeah, certainly I think Green Bay, given the fact that Zyre Franklin, they found out on Thursday was not going to be available. I tipped my cap to McDuffie for the job he did. He was the Johnny on the spot player during the botched, uh, handoff exchange, uh, between Goff and Cade Mays, who was making his return in this game, their, their starting center. So, Yeah, I thought by and large, I mean, 400 total yards is 412 yards. That's not a good day. But Green Bay's defense gave them a chance to win this game.
00:12:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a tip of the cap as well to Brandon Cisse because that one drive in the third quarter where there was at least a penalty or two on that drive that the Packers were kind of scratching their head. One of them was against Cisse where he gets called for DPI and it wipes out his own interception. and then the Lions are in goal to go. They ultimately decide to go for it after Cisse breaks up the third down pass in the end zone, and then he gets the push out of Jamison Williams in the back of the end zone on fourth down to prevent the Lions from getting any points on that drive. I mean, I thought that was, I mean, we've talked plenty about Cisse, of course, but I mean, for a young player and to have that moment taken away from him by a flag and then to come back just a few plays later and to make those back-to-back plays in the end zone to keep this game within reach for Green Bay and to give the offense a chance. You can't say enough about what that rookie has meant to this defense.
00:13:18
Speaker 2: No, you can't at all, especially with all the questions at that position going into the season. He talks about his relationship with Stephon Gilmore, and the more I watch his play style, the more I see parallels. The fact that when this guy is not just 21 years old, when he's 25, when he has some seasoning underneath his belt, if he stays healthy, what his ceiling and what the potential looks like for him in this defense. He's just such a heady player. He's such an athletic player, and he's not afraid of the fire. He just embraces it. Now, he wasn't perfect. There was a couple times that he got beat too, but those plays are going to come together for him. He's smart enough, he's intelligent enough, and he's athletic enough to be able to overcome some of that early adversity. And the Packers have desperately needed him. I will say here, just to correct myself, I don't need any more Lions fans in my mentions. There's already been so many of them. The roughing the passer on Brenton Cox Jr., that was on the series where Cissé nearly got the pick. It was on the series where Cissé ended up getting the back-to-back. So the Packers did earn the stop there, the roughing the passer that continued the drive. was over on Carl Brooks later on.
00:14:24
Speaker 1: On the final drive of the game, yeah. Well, as I said, I'm not going to belabor the point, but before we turn the page to Carolina, with regard to the penalties, and I'm not going to go through chapter and verse on every single one of them, but you know this, Wes. I have been saying, I mean, you and I have been writing Insider Inbox for, what, this is the 11th season?
00:14:48
Speaker 2: 11th season for me. Obviously, you went back to the Aspen case.
00:14:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I only kind of filled in occasionally back then, so I don't consider myself a regular writer of the column then.
00:14:56
Speaker 2: You're like a supporting cast on SNL.
00:14:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. It's been a decade now that I can't even count how many times I have written, I have said you know, why doesn't the NFL just make the safety rules reviewable? Take the safety rules out of the hands of the officials on the field. Let the eye in the sky adjudicate the safety stuff and let the officials on the field figure out the rest. You know, it just, it seems, it seems so obvious. And you have a game like this where, where it just, it just gets out of hand where these major calls, these 15 yard penalties are just flat out wrong. And, Here's the thing. I understand the league does not want to get into having replay reviews where flags are thrown from New York, so to speak, from the replay center. So if you want to have it where, okay, the replay center can review and pick up a flag, okay, fine. I can live with the missed helmet-to-helmet hit Branch and Tucker Craft early. I can live with that if they miss it. but what's really hard is when these 15 yard penalties that you could very easily confirm or disprove by replay are just allowed to stand. Um, and, and 15 yard penalties impact football games. And again, I will not say the Packers lost this game because the officials, because of the officials, because I simply don't believe that, but 15 yard penalties impact football games in a major way. And, uh, um, For the NFL to continue to keep its head in the sand on this in terms of doing what is necessary to get these calls right, it's embarrassing for the league.
00:16:42
Speaker 2: It is, Michael. And unfortunately for the NFL, considering you and I have spent years talking about this now, they are so many years behind now. We've been saying since 2021, 2022, there's things that have to change. There's adjustments they have to make. They need to embrace technology. The league has not embraced technology. It has nothing to do with, okay, well, we're going to use the whatever the aerial thing to determine what's the first down, you're still subjectively putting the ball in a spot and then making a determination based on what the computer says and whether or not that's a first down rather than having two, you know, 55 year old guys running out with chains. Uh, the fact is, and I wrote this in insider inbox, you know, you look at ABS in major league baseball, what that's done and actually made the game better. Uh, it's it's, there's a strategy to it. You know, how are you going to use your challenges? It's efficient. And by the way, umpires get over themselves. They're like, yeah, I missed that call. It was on the corner. Move on.
00:17:33
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't think, and I don't think anybody, when you look at baseball, I don't want to go too far on a tangent here. I don't think anybody blames the umpire when a sliver of the ball catches the strike zone and he calls it a ball or the ball barely misses the strike zone and he called it a strike and the ABS overturns it, whatever. Like, I don't think there's any animosity whatsoever with, with the umpire, the players. And, you know, it's like, Hey, it is what it is, but we're going to use technology to the best of our ability, I still think major league baseball should just go fully automated and forget the challenges and the strategy because you can do it without slowing down the game. So let's get every call right. But that's my opinion. The NFL can use replay and the closer looks at these plays for calls that have a major, major impact on the the flow of a game and, and, um, and how a game unfolds. Um, and they just, they, they refuse to do it. And I, I think it's, I think it's a, it's a disservice to the players and to the fans that watch this game.
00:18:34
Speaker 2: Well, and that's balls and strikes, right? Um, let's look at the NBA flagrant ones, flagrant twos are all upon review. Um, and that isn't just college basketball too. I saw it at a, a GB basketball game. You have to use this.
00:18:45
Speaker 1: And college football goes after the, helmet shots with the targeting thing. And they, they, they stop the game to look at it, to make sure that, you know, if somebody, if somebody makes helmet to helmet contact, obviously the rule is harsher where you get ejected from the game. But, uh, but that's a sign that the safety part is taken pretty darn seriously.
00:19:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:19:03
Speaker 1: And, uh, and, and, and the, and the NFL, as we talked about before, you have flags that aren't fined and fines that aren't flagged and, you know, everything else, the, the, the incongruity of it all. is embarrassing. Yeah.
00:19:17
Speaker 2: The, the flag thing, or at least the, the safety thing. I, I don't, I don't see a correlation with the national football league. I don't, I don't, I don't, I've covered the league for 10, 15 years now, uh, 10 years here, five years earlier with the press Gazette. Sure. Um, if, if there's an emphasis there, I don't, I haven't seen it. I see yearly emphasis is emphases. Uh, but, but it hasn't been consistent enough. And I want to say this too, before we go, cause there's so many different things. about this game, you could talk about the roughing the pass. You can talk about the intentional grounding. Yeah. Um, you know, the, the taunting thing that I kind of went in on, on social media nfl social accounts uh promoting that um was very odd and bizarre to me.
00:19:56
Speaker 1: Sorry i just i continue i i can't help but laugh at that because i just think that's all.
00:20:00
Speaker 2: Which again i'm not silly there's a lot of lions fans that are all up in my business about it i'm not saying i'm not begrudging the lions at all it's an exciting play good for you um Matthew Golden had money taken out of his wallet a week earlier for flexing. Yeah. Okay. I guess it wasn't enough of a good firework clip for the National Football League to profit off of. I'm not sure.
00:20:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:20:20
Speaker 2: But I just want to mention this because I know there was a lot of consternation about the third down at the end of the game where Green Bay jumps off sides. One thing, again, I'm not expecting Alex Moore's crew to catch this considering a lot of the blatant stuff they missed. I mean, Cade Mays is literally on Jared Goff's cadence, opening his left hand every single time they're doing that. That's a false start. Yeah. Alex Moore's crew is not going to catch that. And if you're a defensive tackle, yeah, should, should, do you got to stay within your rules? Do you got to understand what, what the game is at that point and what could happen if it's a first down?
00:20:54
Speaker 1: Sure.
00:20:55
Speaker 2: But when you go back to the player safety rules and why the eye in the sky maybe should be overseeing a lot of this. so that the officials on the field can actually start to get some of these calls right.
00:21:05
Speaker 1: That's, that's been, that's been my point all along. I mean, and this is where I try not to get too, I try not to get too upset at the officials on the field. I mean, I, I, the, just the blatant misinterpretation of rules and everything by Alex Moore's crew is a whole nother story, but in the larger general sense, big picture here for years now, the NFL has simply made the officials jobs way too hard.
00:21:31
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:21:31
Speaker 1: With all the rules, everything they're piling on everything. And, and that's what I go back to is if you just, if you take the safety rules, which have been so many of those have been added over the last 10 years, 15 years, if you take the safety rules and put that in the purview of replay and let the officials on the field focus on all the other stuff, then the officiating in this league of all the other stuff, gets way better. There's no doubt in my mind that that would happen. And to me, it's a simple cause and effect.
00:22:04
Speaker 2: Yeah. And to be honest with you, I can't believe Alex Moore was actually an umpire on Bill Vinovich's cruise. He must not have got much out of that. To me, I've said it before, I think Vinovich is the gold standard of this thing. I think he's one of the few guys that have in terms of way that the game has been officiated, probably should be officiated.
00:22:24
Speaker 1: And before Vinovich, it was probably Gene Sterritore.
00:22:26
Speaker 2: Sterritore, and Sterritore's in a booth now making probably a lot more money.
00:22:30
Speaker 1: Making a lot more cash.
00:22:31
Speaker 2: Dean Blandino is making a lot more money doing referee stuff for Fox than I'm sure what the league paid him in those four or five years that he was the head of officiating, which to me, people always hear me talk about Blandino, but he was the one that kind of got them out of that darkness of 2012. after everything that happened with, you know, the replacement refs and all these other little issues they ran into. And then look when he left in 17, what immediately followed. OPIs in the playoffs. And again, Packers lost that game, no doubt about it. But to all the people that get upset and say, oh, this or that about the Packers, come to playoffs when it's your team in a best of one, not a best of three, not a best of seven, a best of one for 60 minutes. And something comes back and, you know, bites you that way. Remember these moments. Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:19
Speaker 1: Well, all right. I said we weren't going to belabor it. We did anyway. Oh, well, that's why the show is called Packers Unscripted. We do need to turn the page.
00:23:26
Speaker 2: We're not hourly employees.
00:23:27
Speaker 1: We do need to turn the page to Carolina, and we will do that after this quick word from our sponsors. Sirius XM NFL Radio delivers hard-hitting analysis and up-to-the-minute NFL news that true football fanatics need 24-7, 365. Did you know Lambeau Field is just one of our state's many wonders? Start making unforgettable memories on your next vacation. Discover Granddad Bluff and more at TravelWisconsin.com slash wonders. Welcome back to Packers Unscripted. Short week, Wes, Thursday night football. It'll be here at Lambeau against Carolina. And while the Packers are at 4-3 and in last place in the NFC North, the Carolina Panthers are at 3-3 and in first place in the NFC South. just in case you didn't think this league was crazy enough. But for those who are thinking, oh, Carolina, they just got destroyed by a division rival, Tampa Bay, 43-13 on Sunday. This should be a get-right game for Green Bay, yada, yada, yada. Well, don't forget that last year, right before Carolina came to Lambeau Field, they were blasted 40-9 by the Buffalo Bills. And what did Carolina do Dave Canales, that staff, Bryce Young, the quarterback, they did what it took to come into Lambeau and pull the upset of Green Bay. And, uh, and one of those, you know, tough head scratching losses for the Packers last year, Green Bay cannot let that happen again.
00:25:00
Speaker 2: No, cannot. Um, this is going to be a tough one. I wrote in inbox today that this is a dangerous, dangerous football team. Uh, Bryce Young has had some big games this year. Did not have one of them on Sunday against Tampa.
00:25:12
Speaker 1: No, that was not his best.
00:25:14
Speaker 2: But he's been airing it out more. You can see the confidence in his arm more. And he has two really talented receivers. I think Ted McMillan is probably, within the next two years, if not, he's already there, probably going to be in the conversation for top wideouts in the league. I think Jalen Coker, he's dealing with a shoulder injury this week. I don't know what that's going to mean for him. Maybe it's nothing. But those two guys won too. There's so much there that they're built in a similar way of Green Bay where they're going to pass the ball. Chuba Hubbard, I've said this for years. He didn't have a great game again against Tampa on Sunday, but he is one of the most underrated running backs that nobody talks about. And he is consistent. He's been there for years. They extended him. They've had other guys come in. There were Christian McCaffrey's. You look at last year with Rico Dowdle, they've had different guys, the man, but Chuba has always been the standard. He's been the one you can count on. And now that they lost Brooks again, he's having to be the back. And then the only thing I will say, though, much like Green Bay, Carolina is very beat up. They've gone through a lot of injuries this year going back to the offseason program. They don't have either top cornerbacks right now. Jalen Phillips, there's questions of whether or not he's going to be available for this one. That is one thing to definitely keep an eye on.
00:26:27
Speaker 1: And they just lost their right tackle against Tampa Bay. A terrible injury there for him as he's carted off the field and his season is over. Yeah, I mean, McMillan was a top 10 pick in the draft for a reason, right? And maybe it didn't show up right away as a rookie, but it's starting to show up now. Bryce Young was the number one overall pick in the draft for a reason. And again, it didn't necessarily show up right away. but the development is there. You can see it. And when you talk about the confidence part of it, you can see the confidence that the Carolina coaching staff is gaining in Bryce Young because of how they're calling the game, how they're letting him run the show out there. He's got a 93 passer rating on the season right now, which maybe doesn't jump off the page. It was a lot better than that before a rough game against Tampa Bay last week. But This offense, this offense is, is dangerous. And I love what you said about Chuba Hubbard too, because, uh, because yeah, he's sort of like in some ways, the guy they're always trying to replace, but yet he won't go away. And whenever there's an injury or if they need him to be the number one back, like he has been now because Rico Dowdle left, um, he's, he delivers, you know, he, he comes through for them defensively. There's a lot of questions with the Panthers. You meant you mentioned some of the injuries. They also will be coming into Lambeau Field just as Dallas was a couple of weeks ago. They're coming into Lambeau with the league's worst run defense. The Packers now have Josh Jacobs. He's got one game under his belt. We'll see if that makes a difference and if the Packers can establish more on the ground. But I pull this out, you know, whatever, three or four times a season going into a game based on where the Packers are in their season, the importance of the game, what's happened to Green Bay and everything. And this is one of those that I'm going to say it. This game is not about the Carolina Panthers. This game is about the Green Bay Packers playing their own football game in their own yard under the lights on Thursday night football and taking care of business. Because if the Packers play their game, this is a game that they win.
00:28:28
Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah. And the Packers have to run the football. They have to run the football. You have to do it. They didn't take advantage of Dallas being the last.
00:28:36
Speaker 1: Ranked run off. No, they didn't. And I thought that was going to potentially be the turning point for the running game, and it wasn't. And the running game needs to find that turning point here soon.
00:28:45
Speaker 2: Tampa ran for 258 yards on Sunday. Baker Mayfield threw for 64. I mean, that's the type of game that that was.
00:28:54
Speaker 1: And there's 43 points on the board.
00:28:55
Speaker 2: And there's 43 points on the board. So you talk about at times where a running game can be a quarterback's best friend. By the way, 64 passing yards still had over 100 passer rating, though, with the touchdown. They just were able to do everything they wanted to against Carolina. I'm not saying the Packers are going to be able to match that, but this is a game where it would behoove Green Bay to get over 100 rushing yards. Again, it'll be really interesting to see what the machination is going to look like on the offensive line. Is Travis Glover available? Could this be the Kevin Zeitler debut? Who starts at center? All things Green Bay is going to have to figure out. But one thing we do know, and Josh Jacobs talked about it afterwards, Jacobs is going to be four days better. He's going to be one week better from that experience in Detroit. And I think when you see his ability to break tackles, to run through coverings, to find holes, that's only going to improve. But it's going to be that marriage between what Green Bay can do with its offensive line and what Jacobs in the backfield is going to be able to kind of pull out of that. Yeah.
00:29:54
Speaker 1: Um, very quickly, any other keys to victory that jump out to you aside from the obvious, the running game?
00:30:00
Speaker 2: Protect Jordan Love. Um, because if you can give Love time in this game, there's going to be big play opportunities. Like I said, they're, they're down both, you know, JC Horns on IR, um, they're down there, their top two corners. So, uh, for Christian Watson and Matthew Golden, I think the easiest way, the best way to work through some of these drops issues that Green Bay has had is just to keep feeding them, just to keep going to them. Um, and then as I talked about in our little takeaway video, I really love what Savion Williams is bringing to the slot. Six foot four, he is not your traditional slot, but he's really not your traditional receiver either. So without knowing you're not going to get Jaden Reed back this year and without Sky Moore right now, he's made some really big contested catches across the middle where I thought he showed a lot of moxie, a lot of hands, and you need those secondary pieces. I think Tucker Kraft is getting going. He had some good plays on Sunday in Detroit.
00:30:51
Speaker 1: That was a nice touchdown catch he had, by the way.
00:30:54
Speaker 2: Nice touchdown catch, and then obviously stood up on that play after branches helmet to helmet. Green Bay has all the tools, man. I think the frustrating thing beyond the penalties has just been the fact that Green Bay has not been able to implement all of them at the same time, absent, I guess, that game against Chicago.
00:31:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, and when you look at what's going on in the NFC North this week, the importance of this game for the Packers just jumps out. If you win this game, get yourself to 5-3. 6-0 Minnesota is at 4-2 Detroit. So one of the teams in front of you is going to take a loss, barring an overtime tie, of course. And then Chicago is at Seattle. I believe that's the Monday night football game coming up this week. And Seattle seems to have righted the ship. Really strong performance against the Kansas City Chiefs. Handed the Chiefs their first loss. If the bears go out to Seattle and get beat, they get their third loss. I mean, for as frustrating as everything was about Detroit and, and, and division losses are, you know, are hard to overcome. They're going to, they're going to linger in this division race all the way to the end. But if you can get to five and three on Thursday night, and then you sit back and watch what happens in the rest of the NFC North over the weekend, you can come into the second half of the season off this little mini buy over the weekend and And, uh, and just, you know, crank up and get ready to go.
00:32:18
Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's what this is about. You need to be able to build some momentum going into this buy, this mini buy. Cause the problem is I was talking to my great friend, Scott Venci on my way to, uh, the office this morning. I said, man, it would be really nice after this game, if it really was the buy. But the reality is the Packers got another month yet to go before they even get to whatever you want to call that buy between the fake, the fake buy. So there's many buys and there's fake buys this season. You know what it is? You know what this buy is this year? It's like a two for one where it's like, OK, well, you're getting those first few days off and then you got to come back and play the Rams. But then you're going to have another few days off.
00:32:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, whatever.
00:32:54
Speaker 2: National Football League catch the fever.
00:32:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, well. We're getting close to the midway point of the season. We will see what all of the standings in the NFC North look like after the next several days. We won't have another show this week on Thursday because we have a game to cover, so we'll be back next Tuesday to recap everything else that's gone on at Lambeau Field and elsewhere around the league. But with that, we've got to call it a wrap for now on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team and of Thursday night's game From Lambeau Field, we'll have it all for you on Packers.com. For Wes, I am Mike. Thank you for tuning in, everybody, and we will.
