Episode 7: Aaron Warburton, Bulldogs CEO

Matt Attard: You can't unsee it. And family were there, it was just it was shocked. It was any other day. So that was the and still is the scary side of it. I knew when I came back to the club in twenty twenty one, the three or four steps that just had to happen back in in two thousand four. The world against the Bulldogs. Close the doors, let's be bull and particularly the football staff moved us from the worst defensive team. Who's had the biggest influence? How do you reflect on that? I reflect on this a fair bit and it's really difficult to say this person or that person, but it's definitely a mixture of of leaders. Welcome to Pack Mentality, the Canterbury Banksdown Bulldogs podcast, where we chat footy, mindset, and life inside the pack. We're a proud Bulldogs in Business partner, so thank you very much to Andrew Towner and his team. Very happy to be on board as a partner with the Bulldogs in Business. We're here presented by Sync Studios in Bella Vista. So the ever for professional crew led by Mina and Glauco. Thank you so much, lads. I'm Matt Adard. This is Josh Ayun, and we are joined once again by Bulldog CEO Aaron Warburton. Thanks coming in. Great to be back. Honestly. It's ⁓ apart from the drive across town, it's ⁓ when you get here it's a great setup and yeah, it was it was a good first time around and yeah, was looking forward to getting back today. Yeah, no, it's it is really good. I I think I was bit disappointed the first time I had you on because I really wanted to touch more on your personal life and your journey through rugby league and we we were so focused on Las Vegas and the Bulldogs and signings and coaches and everything happening around rugby league. So this time I really before we dive into football related matters, I want to chat about the man Aaron Warburton, the the journey, the life. ⁓ so if if you could tell us kind of like your upbringing, how you got involved in rugby league and did you ever play rugby league when you're a kid, all that kind of stuff. So t tell us about that. Yeah, I ⁓ I love footy from as young as I can remember, yeah, four or five year old and I grew up at Quakers Hill, so the western suburbs of Sydney, not far from Blacktown, for those who are sort of unfamiliar with the area. And yeah, grew up went to Mariong Public School, ⁓ in the early days and then the start of high school, I played soccer sort of pretty I say professional, youth league. I was I was always a bit quicker than My mates, I got into athletics and was was a sprinter and high jumper. I just loved sport and played rugby league ⁓ in high school. So never on the the weekends. It was always soccer and athletics, but went to Blacktown Boys High School for years seven, eight, and nine and played league all the way through. And then I got a scholarship for Westfield Sports High School. ⁓ nice years ten, eleven, twelve. And that was for athletics. And as much as I wanted to play league and soccer One, they were far better than me 'cause they were actually on on different scholarships obviously and ⁓ and the track coaches I remember saying, you're not doing anything that's gonna add bumps and bruises to to what we need you here for. So it was always, as I said, sport and Yeah, growing up in in the western suburbs of of Sydney, you y it's nothing but league. I think everyone in in my soccer team and it I think it'd be s very similar now where you you grow up playing all kinds of sports, but rugby league is ⁓ what you talk about and everyone's got a team and yeah, so that was sort of the early days and and it was just it's all I remember, sport, footy, school ⁓ and whatnot. Yeah. But ⁓ I finished school in two thousand and one. And instead of going to univers I remember having a university offer for Western Sydney, actually UWS at the time. And I said no to it. I wanted to sort of get straight into the workforce. ⁓ And everyone's very familiar with my time at the Eels, well before coming across the Bulldogs and ⁓ yeah, had a had a really good stint there and and sort of moved into bigger and better things a bit later on. But yeah, it all started in the western suburbs and that's yeah, it's where rugby league really gained momentum and and still to this day we've got majority clubs in Sydney and and New South Wales. Yeah. Dad was a Manley fan. Dad was a Manly. Yeah, Dad's a Manley fan. He's still he's very happy to give away two games a year. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. But yeah, he grew up northern New South Wales with his family, yeah, on a farm actually in ⁓ Boomai, sort of just south of the border. ⁓ New South Wales. Yeah, yeah, good, good. And ⁓ but yeah, when he was about ten they sold the farm, moved to the northern beaches, so harbour from memory, and then went to Manley Boys High School. So they All Manley fans, that side of the family is. I remember ⁓ my auntie ⁓ didn't speak to me for about a year after we jacked Des the first time around. And ⁓ yeah, so and that that side of the family is still Manley fans and yeah. You a ⁓ were you a Manley fan growing up, that's the big one. I was so it's funny that I could ask this a fair bit. I was a Manley fan and the only one in Quakers Hill, but I had a Tigers jumper, I had Everything but a paramatta jumper I worked out at the North Sydney jumper about Baume, Manley, Bulldogs. ⁓ I just love footy. So but I was that annoying kid who supported Manley when no one else did. And it was I think you find a lot of those conversations where, you know, families, a brother or sister, will just go for another team to agitate. ⁓ course. Be that that that ⁓ supporter who does that. So yeah, I I grew up a Manley fan and ⁓ but yeah, worked I've worked in rugby league for What's it, twenty plus years? Two thousand and one was the first year and yeah, it's sort of it gives you a different perspective, but you never lose being a fan. For sure. Who's had the biggest influence on the way that that you lead? You lead this club, this powerful, yeah, long, proud club. And then we're a massive club, the Bulldogs. That you know, whether you like us or not, that we are a big club. That's right. You're the leader of that club as the CEO. How How do you reflect on that and and yeah, as I said, who's had the biggest influence on the way that you lead? Yeah, it's a it's a good question 'cause I I reflect on this a fair bit and it's really difficult to say this person or that person, but it's definitely a mixture of of leaders I've worked under. ⁓ all the way through back to the early days. My my boss, ⁓ Stephen Hetch, who's very familiar in the rugby league circles, the only ⁓ captain to win five grand finals as captain. So he's got a I think him and ⁓ maybe Walters might share that accolade. He ⁓ he was a great leader ⁓ but I'm not him and I remember you know even working under Dennis Fitzgerald back in the early two thousands ⁓ had some great leaders at the Bulldogs Todd Greenberg, Rayland Castle ⁓ and you sort of you you you work with people and and you think about it now I've got a heap of leaders under me. So I I look at it there's not one leader and then you've got fifty staff and followers. It's quite the opposite. And in every business you'll have dynamics like that. So I think working under Todd at the time, who I spent a lot of time working with you sort of look around now and it's it's probably now I realise we we're a really good team working under Todd but You gotta find the way you lead and you've got to understand your strengths and weaknesses. And a pitfall a lot of people can fall into is they see someone that they admire as a leader and they try and emulate them to a T. You'll do that for fifty years, you n you'll never nail it. Yeah. So, you know, and and not to say I didn't I didn't ⁓ perfect that one earlier, you sort of say, I wanna be that person, I wanna be, you know, I wanna follow in those footsteps. That's okay, but you've got to you know, and I worked this out that ⁓ And still working it out that ⁓ yeah, you've got to keep you you're a sponge. You've got to listen, you're two ears for a reason, one mouth, and just you build your your persona, your leadership qualities, but just as importantly your gaps. You know, I'm I'm underperforming here, here and here, and you've got to be vulnerable and be honest there and go, That's ⁓ something I wanna work on. And yeah, if you if you don't acknowledge that, it'll forever be a gap. Most fans would think that a CEO's job is just football, but What's an average week like for you? Yeah, it's a it's it is an interesting conundrum when you think about where do I spend my time. And it's very different where I spend my time in twenty twenty six as it was twenty five. probably a little more similar, however very dissimilar to twenty twenty one. So and every club, as you can imagine, is different. So every business is different when it comes to what the demands of a CEO are. For me, my the ultimate role I have is to lead the staff and our players and basically provide an organization for them where there's no roadblocks. So we've as I said, we've got a bunch of leaders doing their job. If they've got things in front of them, my job not individually is to, you know, not to walk around and move hurdles out of their way, but just to build an environment. where they can do their job to the best of their ability. They can then do that and lead their teams behind them. as I said, back in twenty twenty one it was it wasn't like that. I had to get ⁓ into every part of the business. And that's everything from football. We had recruitment meetings I was sitting in. We had sponsorship deals I was sitting in, ⁓ brand marketing, every part of the business I was sitting in. I don't sit in those meetings now. There's a there's the right people in those roles. Trustworthy people in the right roles now. And and not every hire was was the the right hire. I can I can acknowledge that, but the overwhelming majority of them were. And there's professional subject matter experts in every part of our business. To a point where I can say all of my GMs do their job better than I can do it. But that's, as I said, we've now we're able to build and we're getting better. ⁓ and that's the sign of a good business where you can actually do that. And I can really stick to the vision of the the bulldogs and and keep driving us forward and keep thinking big and keep sort of ⁓ reflecting because where we are now versus where we were, it's worlds apart. But if you don't reflect on that and acknowledge it, you can get lost. You can sort of find yourself somewhere and go, oof, w how'd we get here? So the the combination of our strategic plan, our operational plan, and the vision that I keep driving and the staff that I keep motivating, that's the that's the mix that I want. Yeah, and you said last time that you never used to go on holidays because you know you had to now you can. Has that changed at all? Are you still happy with everything? I can't go on holidays now for different reasons 'cause of Well Young young Ollie, he's ⁓ he's hilarious. We tried to go on a couple holidays. Funny enough, we've we've still got on holidays. They're just they're more trips now. They're not holidays. You know, you get back from that holiday when you have kids and you take kids on holidays, you get back and you need a holiday. And it's obviously ⁓ that's what it's like. And he's not at that age where I've heard you can plonk them in the kids' club. He's not there yet. He's attached to our legs and and God love him, he's amazing. We've got another one on the way, but the holiday component, it's just even switching off's nice. Yeah, I can this is the bye weekend now. We've We've you know, we play on a Friday and we might not be playing for another eight days, nine days. Is there's times that you can switch off? That's a big difference, yeah, compared to the the the early days. Can I ask you what's a decision you've made as CEO that maybe the fans don't really know about, but it's had a big impact on the club or the way you do things or the way the club does things. Is there is there a certain point that you can think, okay, well this is a big decision, but it has to be done? It's probably There's probably a few. Th the theme of some of the big decisions I've made are when we need to invest and there's no guarantee something's gonna work. So whether that's expanding a division within our business, whether that's ⁓ you know, backing something in particular that's gonna gonna cost money and we'll only know the results in twelve months. So a lot of that's around expanding commercial sides of the business, investing in our match day. When you think about our match day, we get twelve of them per year and we can turn the lights on and open the gates, or we can do that and invest in experiences, memories, everything that you see when you go to a Bulldogs game that you go you probably take for granted too because it's you know, and every team and and venue does it differently. Yep. We've worked really hard at match day experience. And yep for that exact reason where a fan can go along, have a great experience and as long as they tell someone else, you know, that's that's probably the main reason we've doubled crowds is 'cause theoretically everyone's brought a friend. Yeah. And that means they've had a good time. And we had a great experience a couple of weeks ago when You know, we had we had the opportunity to go onto the field, watch the boys train, warm up, and obviously the ⁓ the guard of honor as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was a great experience. I'd I'd never done it before, you know, so that was amazing. Yeah. And and we've got teams of sort of three or four people that run that that weren't around three or four years ago 'cause we had different priorities around how we were building the club. So yeah, those things they ⁓ we're in a a good spot now. So the you think about any other alternative to coming to a football game, that's what we're up against. So yeah, I made sure that some of those decisions ⁓ happen sooner rather than later. Like anything, you can you can do it now, you can do it tomorrow. And you've you can't do it all today. So you really need to prioritize. So yeah, and in in particular, the focus on on the fan experience was key. And it's you can't necessarily see that straight away. You often go past, you know, six, twelve months ago, okay, that's what the club was doing and what they were trying to achieve there. And ⁓ yeah, and there's a ⁓ there there are a number of things we can and will get better at. Yeah, and I and you know, you s you say a few years ago it wasn't nothing like that. And how ⁓ yeah, through those tougher years of what we would call, I guess, a rebuild, how difficult is it To stay the course, knowing that we've got to stay this course because it's gonna work. Yeah, it's difficult. You got a lot of outside noise, ⁓ at any club, let alone the Bulldogs. ⁓ but I won't lie, it wasn't it it was challenging, it wasn't it wasn't difficult the way I look at it now. I I've really enjoyed the journey so far. I look at maybe a couple of moments when you go, Whew, this is tough and you know, it it becomes borderline unenjoyable. Yeah. But I think my personality, my my drive and love for the club just by default keeps me on track. It's a it's a big responsibility. I if I, you know, I could hand it over to anyone in particular that would would do a great job, I I'm blessed that I've got this role. So it's it it only takes that thought to bring you back on track when you've ⁓ when you might be having yeah, a long day, long week, long month. but as I said, for me it's the the greater good of what we do as a an organization from inside the building to outside the building. Mm-hmm. A lot of people look to us for for that outlet. Yeah. That's a big responsibility. So that's as I said, without overcooking it, that that keeps me very focused. Yeah, I suppose it's the bulldogs for a lot of people. It's what they look forward to every week, every weekend. So how do you avoid getting caught up in the emotion of weekly results, particularly when things aren't going as well as we want them to? And as well as, you know, all the constant rumors in the media were an easy target and all these fabricated stories that come out Yeah. In, you know, media outlets about certain players. Gangsta cliques, can't we? That's the yeah, exactly. So how do you get how do you not get caught up in the emotionable that? It's difficult. I you you know, you I'm not necessarily the best person to sit next to during a game. Like it's it's frustrating. We have next to you every time. Yeah, look at that. Sometimes we're like, ⁓ shit, should we do we look at Aaron or not? Hard not to get caught up in in results, ⁓ but it's it's how you bounce back. I think for and when I say bounce back, how I bounce back, right? It's because it's no point. You know, if we lose a game, me walking around high fiving and thinking everything's okay, it's we we play and we operate our business to win football games. That's the simplicity of our business. Yeah. And then behind the scenes it's all the hard work and and focus and and accountability that we thrive on. They don't see, yeah. So for me but I do bounce back very quick. Like it's within minutes, it is what it is. I go to sleep for three days after a loss. Yeah, it's it's it's it is it's very hard, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Interestingly, the ⁓ the Eels result, that it was a win, right, the other day. That was it's like anything. You just compute it, you compute the result, the score line, the two points, you take those every day of the week. ⁓ and I think that's what fans have said for, you know, the five years I've been at the club. It's you wanna see that effort. Yep. You want to see a team that's connected. You gotta win scrappy as well. You can't always win by forty every week either. That's exactly right. But even if you lose, you just want to see that effort that effort terminate and not give up. That's right. I think after the para game I messaged Matt I'm like, I don't know whether I should be happy or sad. I'm deserving stuck at the moment. But you know, take the two points. I had a good chat on on the field actually after the game with Max King and he mentioned you take the points, right? But it's when you're in that game where you've got so many opportunities and you don't capitalise We've all seen that movie before where you end up losing those games. Yes. Because you run out of gas, you put all your effort into and have a And they were coming home hard as well, power as well. So to keep focused during that game, yeah. They ⁓ they all matter. Mm-hmm. And it's dealing with that criticism that's directed at the club as well. Yeah. But you know that it's working behind the scenes and you're still on target even though you know winning games the way you want to. So that must be tough to deal with that criticism too. Yeah, I've looked I've got pretty thick skin. Not everyone does and not everyone does at the same time. So it's that that balance. And for me it's making sure and it's not about us blocking out the noise. The noise is there's we're a noisy club. Yeah. And criticism is absolutely fine. And I t I talk about this quite frequently to our our staff is that we're always happy to take the positive feedback and y it means you have to take the negative feedback. And, you know, we all know there's a line, all all sensible people know there's a line that we don't cross, but Criticism is absolutely fine. It it's it keeps the fire burning. ⁓ it doesn't mean that every element of that criticism is correct or should be listened to or whatever else. And that no doubt themes come out of criticism and gets well publ published in in our media and but for me the way I take it it it is what it is. You can't Yeah. It you can definitely have conversations with certain journalists around you know, maybe you got that wrong and that's fine and and often they'll go, Yeah, no no problem, we should have spoken before like but in the end, week to week, it's ⁓ it's fish and chip paper most often. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's and and and it's hard because people don't like to admit when they're wrong. Yeah. So and y you can relate that to anyone in any job anywhere really. But yeah. Journalists seem to be a whole nother ⁓ sorry, we're not gonna dive into journals. Don't worry. We're not gonna get into the word the the the ⁓ the the word bulldogs it's it's their key topic yeah seven and days out of seven it sells yeah was was there ⁓ was there ever like a moment or where you kind of genuinely questioned whether this is gonna work the plan for the club moving forward or you've always 100% all in had that belief and do you have you you kind of experienced any burnout in those periods when especially when they were really tough and where the pressure maybe was overwhelming so To unpack that, there's we're happy where we are, but w we're not satisfied. So when you think about the five years that have just gone, we're definitely happy. Like and take the performances on and off the field this season in terms of where our club is at, but we're far from satisfied. So I knew when I came back to the club in 2021, the the three or four steps that just had to happen in terms of we just had to have a clear playing field. And when I say that across the front office to our administration like administrative staff to the environment they were in to our pathway programs. But with that came we needed the right people. So that was all the the the nuts and bolts had to be put together. But we had to bring a huge fan base with us. And we hadn't proven ourselves. So you think about it, it's like, hey, trust us. But we haven't done anything yet. Yeah. But everyone trusted us. So everyone backed us. So when I looked at that, it was like just keep doing the little things well and do them when others weren't. So like all the little things we were building in the background that probably wouldn't have happened had we been winning games early. So you start winning games, y things tend to get ex well aren't exposed, right? So you you can be brushing past certain things. We didn't have that ability. We Everything was exposed in our business and we weren't winning games. So everything was visible. So it it that helped us. Yeah. It was frustrating because three wins in twenty twenty one, seven wins the year after. Short memories, a lot of p a lot of fans forget that. Exactly right. So so yeah, it was we worked really hard through those periods, but it was fun doing that because there probably wasn't that expectation that we should have been a top four team back in twenty one and twenty two and now there is. There is, yeah. So now that's a whole but I'm glad that work's done. Of course. foundations built. So to the second part of your question, yeah, it's now I look at it and go, we've got a lot more to do, but at least the bones are there. And throw in the mix of we've probably came out of the block somewhat ⁓ slower than we'd thought, even though we'd won the first couple of games and but we're at that half point now where yeah it's there's a long way to go but Geez, we've come a long way. The pr the pressure, as we just as you just mentioned, there wasn't was never any pressure of that top eight, top four premiership contending team. We're now kind of after last year. Yeah. And the the squad that's getting assembled and having the coach that we do. Yeah. There is now that level of expectation. Do you do you and and I don't want to talk on behalf of others just from what they may have said to you, but is there any signs of like a burnout or the pressure getting to anyone, whether that being anyone at the coaching staff, any of the staff members under you? It it's a tough, tough job. It's a just being involved in that rugby league bubble. Yeah. A results driven business where we're now not where we want to be performance wise on the field with the results. Yeah. So how do you ensure that everyone under you, including the coaching staff, including all the players, aren't feeling that pressure. Yeah, then the you couldn't say they're not feeling the pressure. And and pressure, it's okay to feel pressure. The the the famous saying of pressure is a privilege. Mm-hmm. You don't have to take that pressure on it, you go elsewhere. Yeah. Bit less pressure over there, bit less pressure at that organization. The Bulldogs, we've always had pressure. different levels, you think back to ⁓ four. There it would have been an immense amount of pressure at the club back in in two thousand and four. Yeah. The world against the Bulldogs. You know, close the doors, let's be bull and it and the results are the results. So much so that you think, you know, O five and the valve was let off and results went the other way and there was a lot of pressure, but it it created diamonds in in O four. The the staff are feeling pressure, but that's okay. We we've got a great environment where we know like just a simple reflection of the people inside our business and particularly the football staff moved us from the worst defensive team in the competition, the absolute worst, to the best. Mm-hmm. And then we've settled a little bit since. So we gave them a challenge. They knocked it out of the park. It's now that we just have a new challenge, a couple of challenges in front of us, that give me all the optimism in the world that that's the group that will get us out of this little little rut. 'Cause 'cause we're in a rut, right? On the field we're we would have liked to have won a couple of games that got away from us. Some, you know, we're just out of our our league at that time. Mm-hmm. And we've had some really good performances. So I think we're just and it's been well publicised just finding ⁓ the way we need to play again. And and there's been so many positives that often get looked over because there's a couple of challenges in the club at the moment. And as you said, I mean everyone's entitled to give criticism as long as it doesn't cross the line, which we have seen recently and you don't have to go into y you know, too much detail about it because you've already mentioned it and we've put up a video ourselves addressing that sort of thing. But there is a lot of that pressure from the outside, not just from fans that comment on Facebook and all the rest of it, but from some pretty respected people. the media and I'm I'm not talking just journos at Fox Sports but respected ex players that used to play for the club not just in T V media but radio media as well. Yeah. It seems a lot of them want us to just reinvent the wheel to get out of this rut, but that's it's not the answer. Yeah, no, look, and they've ⁓ everyone has an opinion and that's absolutely fine and and they have all different levels of experience in different fields and all of them are in ⁓ a position where they can, you know, relay that to the greater public and that's that's what makes our game great. And you've got some of them, like you mentioned, who have ⁓ been inside the bulldogs, some have played against them their whole career and we more than everyone want our NRL team and our NRL W team and all of our lower grades to be top four at any given point. ⁓ you get challenges from time to time and from injuries to where the rules are at and it and all things considered, right? Th there's no excuses. But we we I I personally appreciate that everyone's doing their job. Some cross the line. And they get called out from time to time, whether that's from the club or other media channels and but in the end it just creates more noise, more media and we you know, the game sometimes complains throughout the year, ⁓ this is but geez, we love it to be talking about rugby league in November and December and J like when the game's not on it's ⁓ it's the opposite, right? So it's all all about balance and like we're an open book. I know that ⁓ a number of ⁓ Journos will come to me, we'll go to Gus. There's a number of spokespeople within our business is we'll always take a call and we'll always if you if you want to talk before writing an article. ⁓ my phone is on twenty four seven. So you've got the opportunity to run something bias, ⁓ you know, pressure test something, ⁓ or run it. So but w we're here. We're not we're not ⁓ No have to the fact that articles are just gonna run out daily and you don't need to call the club for every one of them. But if there's something contentious, we'd love to have that chat beforehand. Uh-huh. They just chuck staff writers on some of those ones, hey Joe. But it's that saying, you know, throw what is it? Throw shit on the wall and see what sticks. That's right. That's that's like us. But that's the modern yeah, and that and that's the modern day media, especially social media as well. So yeah. But I I think a positive ⁓ Well, something that makes me feel better is there's clearly something in the water in rugby league at the moment because we've got the Raiders who were minor premiers last year under us on the ladder ladder at the moment. Broncos. The Broncos have lost what five in a row? Six. Six in a row. Six, I up. Melbourne Storm lost seven in a row. Talking about heavyweight teams here. One of them the minority. Along with us as well, that are down the bottom. It's it's it's like it's it's a funny game, rugby league, as Gus would say. It's a funny game. It is a funny game. Yeah. And all of those supporters, and even the ones that are up a bit high. You're probably bit nervous going. Yeah, this could change at any point. Are they going to finally click? That's right. And I think all those fan bases are the are acting the same as a lot of our fans do in comments. You know, we pay more attention to the Bulldog stuff. But that's right. I think the same with the Storm fans and Melbourne's ⁓ and Broncos fans and Raiders fans. Who are we dropping this week? We need to get rid of this guy. We need to sack him. We need to sack the you know, we need to up bring this junior up that's played one game in New South Wales Cup and give him the captains. You know what I mean? So ⁓ apparently sacking one player. To bring a reserve grader in that's never had any experience is going to solve all the problems. And and yeah, I guess the the point I was making, I guess, is just that everyone, every club has those fans. It's ⁓ we just focus on the more being Bulldogs related. But that's it. That's why that's why Supercoach and Fantasy League are so popular. Because it gives everyone the opportunity and and everyone has an opinion. That's absolutely fine, but geez, it it creates that chatter and doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. How do you switch off? I mean rugby league's a twenty-four-seven conversation. You just said your phone's on twenty-four-seven, but how do you switch off from rugby league? Do you? Yeah, I know from I I love rugby league. So I'm I'm watching eight games a weekend. Me too. Not this weekend. My wife hates me for Watching five this weekend. But ⁓ yeah, it's sort of ⁓ it's research, right? If I'm watching rugby league, it's research. But ⁓ switching off from it, ⁓ I try to get home as early as I can when I can. So bath time and and making sure I'm there as soon as possible 'cause I'm working at night when I need to. Yeah. The flexibility of being able to work wherever I am, if I'm traveling, airport lounges, I'm just finding that balance. and the way we've you know, we've got a long way to go, but the the inception of AI into our business through our partnership with Anthropic and It's it's sped things up but probably added more workload, but gives us a lot more flexibility for for running reports and and parts of our program ⁓ behind the scenes. So it's sort of I I feel like we've done a pretty good job over the past twelve months of working smarter. And that's everyone in our business including me. So but I set the standard where family comes first, right? As long as you're doing your job inside the Bulldogs, family comes first. And we've got, you know, all the families were at training on the weekend for a barbecue after training. We had ⁓ a staff day yesterday, we were all out playing lawn bowls. So when we can, connection and and family is important inside, but if it's not happening at home, that's when the negative effects come into the workplace. So we've of course yeah we've got a really nice balance at the moment and I've I have to work hard at making sure I've got the right balance. Otherwise if I don't it'll trickle through the whole business and ⁓ so we've got school holidays coming up. There's probably three or four stuff that we're gonna see. Kids running through the office. Yeah, yeah. and we encourage it. Yeah, great. ⁓ yeah. Well it's all about being being part of the family club. Yeah. I'll give you a red hot tip if ⁓ the Bulldogs ever need some Brilliant Lebanese barbecue catering. Hit up Habibic. Matt at Habibic's catered for us today and this whole weekend. Yes, yeah. Massive Bulldogs fan. ⁓ so big thanks to Matt at Habibic. Get on get on him. I'd he'd love to come and ⁓ cater for all the players and the staff. He might give me a tips. I love my cooking. Absolutely. I have seen you done some early ones. I don't cook as much as I used to, but ⁓ anything over the coals or I've got the pizza oven, I've got the butter. I'm telling you, bring the family to Port Macquarie for ⁓ A holiday in the off season and I'll smoke you a brisket. 18 hours lower stuff. That's my invite, mate. I suppose you can come to ⁓ leadership, right? We've spoken about it a little bit, but what have you learned from from leadership from rugby league that applies to your everyday life? So ⁓ I I always talk to the a rugby league player, let alone a professional athlete, the leadership qualities they have. Generally from a young age, so early teens. You can identify a leader from twelve, thirteen, fourteen. And funny enough, we go through this in in game changers with some of the the students that come through. It's like w when did you find out you're a leader? And everyone looks at each other and no one's got the answer. Yeah. It's generally when someone tells them, Hey, you're a leader. Like, you they follow them, they're a captain. Yeah. But it doesn't have to be the armband, right? It has to be the the qualities, the the the way you go about, whether it's training or family life at home and so for for me it's it's just understanding that everyone has those qualities. So the fact that you have to be told to be a leader is is It doesn't sit well with me, but it's it's the only answer I can find when when I ask that question. Sure. It's when someone else actually recognises it in you. Yep. So for me, yeah, for me as a leader, I y you never stop. I I've I've educated myself whilst working for the past well the for the first thirteen years out of high school. So I kept complimenting. ⁓ and it was just because I was hungry for ⁓ more information. Sure. N never wanting to go, I've made it. Mm. And that's ⁓ probably Yeah, as said, finding the time for for reading books, the simple things. So that's turned to audio books now and podcasts. Much easier to pop it on in the car. Exactly right. So it's ⁓ yeah, but the yeah, the environment of the bulldogs, it's I I haven't done my job if if leadership and learning isn't sort of at the the forefront. Yep. Sure. Yeah. ⁓ people meet Aaron Warburton, the CEO, but what what don't they say about you? Give us a bit of an insight into that personal life and that That's a good question. What don't they say? It is. I wanted to test you. Well you already said he's a really good cook. We I can vouch for those videos he posts and photos. Yeah, I like cooking. I like to ki it's funny. ⁓ this year in particular, I think when we caught up last time, I'd I probably was my least fittest last year. Right. And it was funny 'cause it was on the back of Ollie turning one and you just you'd you'd look after yourself last. Well you've seen what three kids does to you. ⁓ I got two coming, so maybe I gotta gym one one's the problem at the other than a time to do that, you know. It's cra it's hard. We look like fit you know, yeah. It's funny 'cause it's it doesn't take long to like a couple of weeks of just relaxing and not do that. But ⁓ I've really taken an interest this year in ⁓ intermittent fasting. So just understanding ⁓ how my body reacts to you know and I I love my food. I absolutely love it and I should be you know, twice as big based on how much I eat. But it's it's funny, this year it's like when I eat, what I eat. Yep. ⁓ so yeah, and there's a lot of content online that I'm really enjoying in that space around ⁓ insulin levels and just going, you know, if I want to be healthy fifty year old, sixty year old. I had kids a little bit later in life, so I'm forty two now, Ollie's two, but another one on the way. ⁓ you you start reflecting on, okay, at that age I'll be this. Yeah it's so sure. Yeah so just just looking after myself has probably been something maybe It's that you hit forty and that's when it kicks in. Wisdom just comes to you. You start going, ⁓ really? When I was thirty or when I was Yeah, when I was young. You just you just you you definitely breeze over it. But yeah, yeah, just something like that. That's and when I've I've made that switch, it's funny how many other little things you just start yeah ⁓ paying attention to just in terms of yeah. Mm. Accountability, right? If I want to have a certain life then no one else is gonna do it for me. A hundred percent. So the Bondi tragedy shook Australia. It was massive shook the world really. It was absolutely awful. And as someone who lives nearby yourself, and you were quite close to that, and we've seen that in a in an article that came out yeah ⁓ the start of this year, did that change your perspective on what really matters? Yeah, it did. It's funny when when it happened, I think Everybody was ⁓ shit, this is it's not you know, it was daily. It was like the next day, the next week, the next and then time heals. That's probably one way I can look at it where ⁓ I spoke at the start of this round, grew up at Quaker Seal. I reckon I went to Bondi twice. Right. Three times, sort of wasn't wasn't on the way to anything. But ⁓ it's home now and it's sort of it's a it's ⁓ it's a community like anywhere you go to. Belmore, you've got people that make the community and it was it was rocked as a It was a home. Yeah. And it ⁓ yeah, it got The the sense of home. Just changed. And ⁓ you know, it's funny, I ⁓ it's it affected me 'cause I s I s I saw the whole thing, but we're lucky. Like we we weren't in the crossfire, we weren't We weren't hurt. I don't take it too. Yeah, but emotionally it's You can't unsee it, right? So it's sort of Of course. It's the family were there, it was just it was shocking. I think everyone, like you said, the whole world saw it. ⁓ but we saw it, you know, fifty meters away. Yep. And when you think of ⁓ I suppose you As a father, it's so confronting. ⁓ and you think you put your family in that situation and you think, you know, all these scenarios in your head. I I live so far away from it and I did that. So I can only imagine I remember seeing Olive affected you. He was young, obviously a lot younger and didn't know what the heck was going on. So that's that's the blessing in disguise. ⁓ he heard the the noise and was like, ⁓ that's noise. Yeah. So but if it was now it'd be totally different. And there's no doubt there was you know terrible memories for a lot of people that yeah. Mm I only hope that they're able to get past it and see the good in it. Like I said, the community side of it is the good in it. That's the that's Bondi's never been stronger. ⁓ but it's it's just a a wake up call that no one ever wanted. Hundred percent. Thanks for answering that. So honestly, I mean I know it's tough, but I I felt that I needed to ask you about that because it it's such a huge thing and yeah, a lot of people might not know how closely involved with that you were. So yeah. So that's the that that was the and still is the scary side of it where of course. Yeah, so but ⁓ and it obviously yeah it has changed your perspective a bit and yeah, and like everyone that would have been there and experienced it or even just heard it or read it, you know, it changes your perspective on things. You don't expect it. Yeah it doesn't you don't expect it. And it it doesn't change personally, it doesn't change the way you go about anything. You don't like w I haven't not gone somewhere because of of that could happen. Mm-hmm. I think that's what everyone was thinking earlier is like on and Bondo was quiet for a long time, but ⁓ yeah, it's as I said, it's just a shame something so bad has to happen for for all the good that has come from it. What has that coupled with your journey through rugby league, being at the club at the lowest and now as they're on the way up? What's it taught you about resilience as a leader, as a person? h high level, ⁓ I think we can all attest how how fast time goes by and how you know, you've often got forks in the road for from small decisions to large decisions. And I think just for me it's it's just you've gotta stay true to yourself and back yourself. Mm-hmm. And if you keep doing that, you you're probably gonna head in the right direction. with everything you do, with everything you you know, how you hold yourself, th how you respect others, how you treat others. And more often than not, things are gonna work out. And it's sort of just making sure you yeah, you don't wanna live life with blinkers on or or in fear of anything. But I think you've just got to have your own set of values and be very, very true to them as opposed to half the time. Yeah. Or when you've when it's comfortable. And ⁓ yeah, without thinking about that too much, that's probably how We all go about our lives, but yeah, just a lot of that comes from how you were brought up. Sure. What was instilled in you, how you you conduct yourself and how hard you work and yeah. Yeah, so that's that's probably something for me. Mate, my phone's always there if you need a call and have a chat. No, thank you. I appreciate it. We're here for you as well and ⁓ yeah. No, I appreciate it. Yeah, always here for you, mate, for a chat or whatever. It's it's a big thing to have gone through as well. So thanks for answering those. So so it's pleasure. Brutally honestly. So pleasure. ⁓ let's end on a football note. What can you tell us about the the plan for the Bulldogs the next few years? I did see an article earlier this week, I think, where you said You're not gonna put your hand up to be the ⁓ the NRL CO or anything like that. By the I get asked that I say no first and then I can talk about I don't want to yeah, misconstrued. Yeah, that's right. But you did speak you did speak glowingly about what's coming up for the Bulldogs the next five years. You you really spoke ⁓ seem to be really excited about it. Expand on that for us. A hundred percent. I'd I'd I'd take this job again if it came up. If you know what I mean, in terms of I'd I'd throw my hat right in the ring and and interview again and knowing that ⁓ I feel I came in at the right time five years ago, we're at that baseline of what this club can actually become. So we couldn't where we're heading now and where we will get to couldn't happen without those yep, those harder years. And that was everything from building the foundations, the divisions, bringing the people in, setting the standards, and now I wouldn't say let the fun begin, but now we can actually start seeing some of the fruits. Starting to settle a little bit. Yeah. And a little little speed hump at the start of this year around where we thought the game was going and where it is. We've just got to pivot. We've got to, as I said, find a way out and and this year we'll you know, we'll sort itself out. However it's the next few years and how we're managing a cat for twenty seven, twenty eight. Mm a new high performance center that opens early next year. Just hoping you'd talk about that yeah coming along nicely. Yeah. Looks starting to take shape now. It is. It's ⁓ it's a fifty million dollar facility that is just we see it ⁓ it's literally being built before our eyes. Every day, every week we come in. Well where your office is you kind of just look straight over the over the field and it's right there. All the timber arrived the other day, so a huge amount of timber. Wow. A bunch from Europe, a lot of local timber and it'll be one of the largest timber structures. in the state. So we ⁓ we're proud of that because of the ⁓ you know the timber cutting heritage of Canterbury Bankstown from the eighteen fifties and all the way through the eighteenth century. We ⁓ that was the non-negotiable. When we built this, it was going to be very heavy on timber. Nice. Which ⁓ we didn't realise how expensive timber was. We thought timber was cheaper than steel. That was quickly corrected for us. But we're we're really happy we're we're going down that path. It's to be a a building for the ages and it will be for fifty plus years for the Bulldogs along with where we currently operate out of with our pathways and community hub, the whole precinct is what we're calling is the center of excellence. So the the new build being the high performance center. You're talking seven thousand square meters of performance and community space, which is yeah which we sort of right towards the top of the league. We might have to do a little ⁓ mobile podcast situation from there. We will We're building the podcast studio now, so we're have two studios, one in the current building, one in the new building. Sync studios you're sacked. No, I'm joking. Completely joking. You can offer you good rates if you do. We love Sync. No, we we we're loyal. We're very loyal. We might do it's the modeling out of this one actually. Yeah, you know who to ask if you need some help about podcasts and studios. And that kind of thing. You mentioned pathways. We're seeing some some of those fruits really come through now with the pathways. Jack Underhill debuted, Jed Rean debuted, ⁓ AJ Jones, ⁓ a couple of others have kind of been on the extended bench. ⁓ Alex Conti's looking fantastic. He was in the extended squad for ⁓ a game recently. So it's starting to happen. Yeah, we We knew it would happen. It's just you do want to click your fingers sometimes and see some of these kids come through because you do see them come, you know, they hit flag and you're like ⁓ get ⁓ in first grade now. Harry Hayes, some of these kids who Yeah, he's got a few articles coming out. Timing's everything and the environment around them sometimes fast tracks them and that's okay as well. But yeah, seeing ⁓ Jed come through and and Jack was always one where I think we We saw him come through, just how he held himself through those lower grades. You knew he was gonna get through and yeah, so there's and there's plenty more. We ⁓ I think I mentioned it last time I was here around the way we try and build it, you know, high level is that y if we're under indexing in certain positions, then we've just gotta turn our focus on on on props or back rowers or outside backs wherever it is. And I just think we've got a nice balance at the moment of ⁓ of kids coming through. But Look, be honest, every club has got a pathway system of sorts. We've just got a we've now built ours, so it's now just yeah all eyes on it. Yeah, I mean the Dragons will give them a bit of a shout out because some of their young guys coming through are fantastic. ⁓ and I think we're in a a similar spot now. We've got a lot of good players coming through. Yeah. kind of catch twenty two because it does leave us open to fans turning into coaches and saxaraldo, we need to get this bloke in to start right now. Yeah, yeah. They forget Romals and builds overnight. That's exactly right. These things take time and I think as you mentioned we're very much on on the right path. Things are looking okay for in terms of you mentioned cap management and top thirty and all that. That's a that's a big task to get on top of. Yeah it is. And and regardless of the CBA and where the new broadcast still goes, it's there'll be ratchet And there'll be a a bump to the cap significantly by all accounts, depending if the number ⁓ lands where we think it's gonna land. So all in all, it's you mentioned it, the game is in a a relatively healthy spot compared to where it's been sort of the last decade or so, but that's on the back of all the stakeholders, the players, the fans, the administrators and the media who who talk nothing but rugby league, particularly in Sydney and and Brisbane. And and that's what's so exciting about the Perth Bears coming in, giving it a truly national footprint and then P and G and Team Twenty. Take your pick. Hard to navigate. Yeah. It's gonna make it very hard. Well well, people are gonna assume it's gonna make it very hard for pla players to stay at their current club. But it's all part and parcel of the game, isn't it? Yeah, the the ⁓ the game has gone through expansion, rightly or wrongly at different times and I think the the number of kids playing, particularly in our backyard where yeah, we've got some challenges around the size of our catchment. We've got our thirteen clubs, forty four hundred junior participants, which is well above per square meter some of our competitors. However, the ⁓ the likes of Penrith, Parramatta, the North Coast, there's participation is is heading in the right direction, particularly with the girls space. But ⁓ yeah, the elite side of it is that's where we've just got to make that Make sure there's a balance there and and nothing suggests there's not. I know fans are are talking about ⁓ you know, certain score lines and whatever else. It's there are some quality players coming through the junior ranks. All you've got to watch is the under twenties origin and yeah see the talent there and they go back to club ones. Yep. We've got ⁓ and we have the last few years too. So ⁓ you know, every club's pretty well represented through there, but the ⁓ the focus on Coaching the right coaches, bringing them through the right pathway, aligning that with the players. And ⁓ it's where we are. But yeah, you you add two, three more teams in. It'll stretch it. But for sure. I think the ⁓ the system's in place just to keep bringing more kids through. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's ⁓ I'm not gonna sit here and ask you who's signing here and who's going where and what's the what's the top thirty look like in twenty twenty-eight. Everyone wants to know ⁓ everyone wants to know that. But I think the the message for the fans is just we just have to have faith that we've got the right people. people there doing their very best. No, we do, 100%. And ⁓ they've proven it. It's been proven. Hundred there's ⁓ there'll be deadlines for certain players, but where we are now and we're hearing things pop up in the media, it's we've got everything under under control and the players that you know want to stay and we want to keep will be a bulldog. So yeah. High level that's where we are and and as I said headlines will be headlines and We've just got to trust the process. Absolutely. Aaron, thank you so much for coming in for a second time. Pleasure. Probably our favourite guest, I'd have to say, 'cause we've had you back again. I most caps now, haven't I? Most caps. Yep. Yeah, we're gonna aim for number three later in the year 'cause when we're ⁓ back down, you know. Yeah, there's getting a few more. You guys are doing a great job. Honestly, the ⁓ the audience you you have got and the one you'll continue to build will be a a group of really switched on rugby league fans, but more importantly, well rounded supporters who get the the real purpose of this game. So you guys are doing a good job. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks very much. And then that's our focus obviously is very much real, raw conversations. I really appreciate that. Yeah. Really human moment before but no no really, really good ⁓ that you're able to open up and and and I asked you before the show if you minded if you you minded me asking that question and you said yes. So thank you so much. No absolute pleasure. Yeah. Fantastic. Pleasure to be here. If anyone's seen me deliver a speech at a loved one's birthday party then I've got a tear or two in me. So Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Mate, it's it's a good thing. It's nothing to hide behind. So thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Really looking forward to the rest of the year. And ⁓ yeah, thanks so much to you as well, Josh. Thank you very much. Cheers, appreciate it. Thanks you. Remember, ⁓ have your packs back, stay strong, stay connected, and we'll see you next time on pack mentality. We do.