Overthinking the "Materialists"

Crysda: Hello and welcome to Overthinking It on Purpose. I am your host, Crysda, and this is my co-host and sister, Kira. Hello. Are we ready to overthink some media? Let's go. So today we're gonna talk about materialists It came out in 2025. the writer-director is Celine Song. The notable actors are Dakota Johnson, Chris Evans, and Pedro Pascal. The summary is an ambitious young New York City matchmaker finds herself torn between the perfect match and her imperfect ex. How did you feel about this one, Kira? I spent practically the entire time glaring at the phone that I was watching it on. Don't waste your time putting it on the big screen. No. Sincerely. I was also at work. Yeah, yeah, no. so just a little bit of like funny story time. the only reason I watch Materialist in the first place, because I'm not a rom com person. even before my deconstruction from Misogyny, I mean you know this, obviously, I'm telling people. I'm not really a rom-com person. I think that they are crazy. I don't like I don't like the men that the women end up with. I don't like the women a lot of the time because they're women written by men and those suck. and then another factor to it, this isn't even a rom-com, this is just a romance movie, and that makes it worse. I think so too. you're absolutely correct. I immediately say rom-com, even though many times it's not a rom-com. So I apologize, that is on me. I think it's under romance and drama. I think so. So I first wanna talk a little bit about some of the characters. starting with our top three obviously. first of all so what I was gonna say is that I only watched Materialists because of Pedro Pascal. I had recently watched The Last of Us and this was before season two came out, and I decided to hyperfixate on Pedro Pascal. Easy to do. Which happens. and I was so in love with him. That I just watched a bunch of his movies. and we'll probably review a few of them, I think. we're definitely doing The Last of Us at some point because I have feelings and thoughts about The Last of Us. Anyway, so I watched this even though I was like, ph romance, stupid. Especially hetero romances. but I was like, I'ma jump into this because it's Pedro. And I watched it and I was like, first of all. Pedro was not on the screen for very long. Travesty. And genuinely, don't make him a big part of your marketing campaign when he's not on the screen for more than 10 minutes. That's rude. But I also hated it. Like, genuinely hated it. And I wanna talk today about why I hated it because for me it's not about the acting, it's not about The cameras, the lighting, the music, none of it is about that stuff. I honestly, most of the time, unless we actually come here to bitch about the film, I don't care about that stuff. It's an averagely made movie. It is just fine. Like from a technical standpoint. From a technical standpoint. What I wanna talk about is How dangerous this movie is as propaganda, especially for women. So I really want to start with Lucy just because she's our protagonist, she's our lead person. so she is incredibly male-centered. I mean, obviously, she's in a business that is all about you know, putting people together and romance, but also she's incredibly male centered in how she sees herself and how she interacts with other people. Right. obviously she's also transactional. The movie is called The Materialists. Seems kind of fitting that she would be transactional. Yeah. what really bothers me about her being transactional is that it in the movie and how we see women who are transactional, especially in society, is that she's the bad guy. She is a gold digger. and there's a bunch of different words for women who are constantly going for men that are out of their league, quote unquote. And she at some point in the movie describes herself as judgmental, materialistic, and cold. Did you see anything about her character other than those things? Like essentially it does come down to the transactional aspect of her personality, but the amount of times she dehumanized everybody. It actually wasn't specific to gender. Very true. she dehumanized everybody. She did. and so that's a horrible person. Yeah. like I said, it comes down to the transactional aspect of how she sees everything. But it was just so I couldn't stand her because of how dehumanizing she treated everybody. And she never got better. No, it's true. It never changed. Yeah. And so it's just like it was v there was very many times that I thought it's like, at what point am I supposed to root for her? Yeah. She is supposed to be the protagonist. She's the protagonist. You're supposed to like her. Yes. And like, you know, even if the reason is I'm rooting for her to change, at one point am I supposed to root for her. And that moment never existed. Yeah, it was true. for me, it's really interesting because the way that men treat women is the way that Lucy treats people. Yes. And for me I have seen this now in a couple of movies, and I would normally blame the male writer. I know that that that I feel mad about that. Deeply Troubling to me that the writer director of this movie is a woman and she is literally like utilizing so many horrifying stereotypes about women and about men to make Lucy as a character. And what really bothers me is that I don't wanna jump ahead, but Harry is also materialistic. Yes. Because he's a rich man looking for a good partner. Like I did think it was interesting that they are both very honest. about how bad a people they are. Like it's an interesting thing, it's like 'cause you know, we appreciate the honesty. Yeah. But why are you honest about such shitty things? Right. Can't you just be a better person? Right. Like and that's the thing, is she talks down about herself and like, you know, saying that like all these things are reason that she's not marriage material or anything like that, and she's constantly using it to put herself down, but she doesn't do Anything to change it. Yeah. She doesn't like these things about herself, but she never does anything to change them. Which is also very much like men. Yes. And so, it was just really frustrating, because it's calling out their bad traits and they kinda don't have anything to balance out the bad traits. Yeah, it's true. Even Lucy talking about Harry's, you know, calling him a unicorn, because, he doesn't do drugs, he's not like, as far as they can tell, he's not into prostitutes or like going and sleeping around and partying and stuff like that. That he is just a good worker, and he has a whole bunch of money, he came from money and stuff like that. and it's just like those are what is considered good traits. No, how you treat other people is good traits, and he does tell like while being very upfront about like this is kind of kinda transactional, me being with you. Like he is still interested in her. I also think that he is genuinely kind to her. Exactly. Which is why it's an interesting swap where Lucy is playing the part of what most men are like in relationships. Right. And Harry in a lot of ways is is almost being the woman in some ways while still being obviously the rich man. Yes. So it's really hard to say with Lucy. Honestly, I don't have much else to say about Lucy. And we'll come back around to her, obviously because she's the protagonist. some of the things about Harry that's interesting is that unlike Lucy, he knew there was something in himself that he could change, his height. And then he did the horrendous surgery. short kings, don't do this to yourselves. It's not worth it. No. Find a girl that likes you for your height. And honestly, just don't lie about your height. one of the big things that they showed in the movie was these men lying about their heights, which we know is true. Men lie about their height all the time, and they also lie about other things that are inches all the time. Just don't lie about it. It's super weird. especially if like, you know, with it being something that is so easy to disprove. It's just like you've been to a doctor, right? They check your height. They check your height. They check your weight. It it also look at you and say, you're my height. I'm this tall. Also, if you're a five-six woman, which I am, and you walk up to someone who says that they're six foot and they're literally your height, yeah, you know that they're lying. And here's the thing about about men that lie, and I promise this means a lot to the review and the movie and how this works. Is that w if you're gonna lie about your height, which is easy to find out that you're lying, why wouldn't you lie about everything else? Right. So when you're talking about dating, when you're talking about what Lucy is experiencing with this relationship between her and Harry or her and John, but also her job at Adore, which we will get to, She is constantly like talking about dating, working with dating, doing the math quote unquote of dating, and which we could have a whole podcast dedicated to the math of dating and how wrong it is and how stupid it is. but these are all things that men did and do. So for me, Lucy is a man in a lot of ways. Like in character, she's a man. What's interesting to me, and I do think that this is important is that she is treated as the bad guy because she is all the things that a man usually is. Whereas Harry as a character is, you know, all of those things that make him a unicorn, which is stupid. but also he is generous and kind. And he likes spending time with her. He actually says really nice things about Lucy. Yes. sometimes even without her really deserving it, I think sometimes, because she doesn't know how to have a conversation with people Yeah, that isn't her pitching her her business. Or her getting information for her business. Yeah. Like she's so used to gathering intel on men and women that That's all they are to her is like just another client. Another client, another page in her little journal that says weird things about people. And it's too bad because I do think that Harry is more than the sum of his parts. and to be fair, we actually don't know much about Harry because she doesn't know much about Harry, because they do indeed see this as a business transaction. And like you said, like they are honest with each other. And I do think that Harry genuinely sees a lot of value in her. Yeah. And I think that he is he's very kind and sweet to her. and he fits the one box that she has. Yeah. That he's rich. and here's the thing, I actually don't care. if women want men to be wealthy or well off, because if women are going to live in a patriarchy and deal with misogyny, then bro can pay for it. If you want a stay-at-home wifey, you have to have stay-at-home wifey money. Yep. And there are very few men who actually have stay-at-home wifey money. And I wanna keep calling him Pedro, but Harry as a character is one of those few. That's one of the reasons he's a unicorn is because he was born rich and he has maintained being rich. Right. but you can even see in some of their interactions that work is always gonna come first. absolutely. For for Harry's like they don't actually have a relationship. No, they don't really like each other. They have a business. They have a business arrangement where they like each other. Yep. But that's it. Yeah. And here's a hot take. She would have been safer in a business transaction between her and Harry where they like each other. Yep. Than a love relationship with John. Yeah. Before we move on to John Was there anything else that I might have missed about Harry? no, and I assume this was on purpose because it is being told from her perspective that we don't really know a lot. Like all we have to go off of is kind of vibes of him. And like I just had the thought of the thing that came up with greatest showman with Hugh Jackman playing PT Barnum. Yeah. That absolutely atrocious person in history, but he's Hugh Jackman and charming and all that. And if you had put any other person in that role, would it have changed what we perceive? Because it's like, you know, if we know anything about Pedro, it is that he is a very gracious, kind person. It's very true. And the person of Pedro Pascal. He proves it over and over and over and over and over again. And we can't help but let that be what we see on screen. Yeah. And so when they put him in a role where like he like where his words and actions are or like what little we see of them support that our brains are going to fill in these blanks. Yeah. And so like honestly if they had flipped or like if they cast somebody else, would we be as believing of that he's actually being honest? You know, it and of course it's it's a really good point because I as someone who likes Pedro Pascal I have obviously watched other movies that he's in. Yeah. And the one that really comes to mind quickly, and you're probably not gonna know it, I don't even know if I care enough to do a podcast. Let me know if you care. it's called Triple Frontier. It's like a hard movie. I remember you ta talking about it. It's real dumb. And Pedro's the best character, but he's like the best character, and he's not even one of the protagonists. Yeah. And Pedro being. It's just Pedro being Pedro and it's hard to let go of that sometimes, especially when, like you said, you're not getting much from the protagonist. Lucy doesn't know anything about Harry as a person. No. Like she doesn't care. She doesn't care. She only cares about his resume. She only cares about his bank statements because that's all she wants out of a man is money. And again, go for it, girl. I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with a lot of her behavior. if you're gonna dehumanize people Then I have a problem with that, and I have a problem with romanticizing that. I don't have a problem with a girl going for someone richer. I think get it, girl. so I'll never have a problem with that. Like, and that's the thing, is like she had the perfect opportunity to try and give him a chance to actually maybe have and like this can be part of their business transaction of the relationship. Is that hey, tell him something that's going on in your life and give him a chance to maybe be more helpful than your ex. Yes. that that you are immediately emotionally cheating on the person you're in a relationship with. Yeah. It doesn't matter that's transactional. You're still cheating. And that was the other thing and we need to talk about John and how so awful he is as a person. And what's really annoying is that to me like what makes him awful Isn't that he's poor. Obviously. We grew up in low income. Like we were pretty low To mid income, That's not what our problem is. I do want to say though that it is a mitigating factor when you're talking about abuse in relationships, that is an important factor, and it is important to how I hate the ending of this movie, which we will get to. So with John, what we see with John as a character is obviously he knows Lucy. And it sounds like they had been together for maybe five years. I don't think it was that long, mostly because of their age. Yeah, yeah. Because he's like 30. He says he's 37. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. And so like they were together for a while. Yeah. I think that that was how long it had been since they'd broken up. Okay, okay. Cause but they were definitely together for they were together for a while. Yeah. Yeah, so obviously. Obviously John and Lucy know each other pretty well and he happens to be the cater waiter at the wedding where she and Harry meet and he knows her drink order. and I know a thing that really bothers me is that he says hey buddy to her a lot. Yeah it genuinely bothers me. Like you couldn't even give her like a nicer fucking pet name. Hey buddy. What is she? Your boyfriend? What the hell, man? Just date your roommate. But anyway, like I don't like that he calls her buddy. it just feels icky to me. I already have issues with pet names to begin with. For sure. like I get it that it can like, you know, it can be a form of affection. It's a way to show affection. But it does matter what is behind the pet name and and honestly it's like buddy is very much a masculine thing. Like, why would you want to be called buddy? Like I wanna know what her thoughts are on being called buddy and what it came from and stuff like that because it's like the source of the pet name matters. Yeah. And like that gives the ick. having that be the first thing we see him say to her was like, Ew, I hate you already And we're supposed to like this guy. Like this is supposed to be the better option. This is the better option. So he's a cater waiter In a failed actor who's trying to make it on Broadway essentially, only in New York City Broadway in New York City. Broadway's in New York. Okay. because if we were in Hollywood, they'd be trying to be a TV star. There is a difference. So he's highfalutin poor. because he's trying to be a theater. Honestly, like that's the thing, is like theater acting is harder than than And film act. I believe that. They just make less. I know. Like way less. Yes. It's harder and they make less money. Yep. So he's desperately trying to be a you know, a theater guy and he's been trying for a really long time. And you find out that Lucy also tried to be an actress and she l she just bounced on that. She was like, I can't make money, I'm out. And like and you get the The thing is there's like, you know, if you're a good actor, it means that you have a really good awareness of yourself and you can face yourself. Yeah. Like I bet that she couldn't face herself. Probably not. And so like not only does that mean you're a worse actor, but you can't face it. So Yeah, I also think he's not a good actor. Yeah, no, it's like Like the story. Yeah. Yep. I'm not really here to talk about Chris Evans. I will say it was kind of funny that like that this is that you know he's supposed to be a good guy. Like so most people like, he's Captain America and all that. I can't stand Captain America, so that doesn't help. I don't like Captain America either. but I think that probably the best thing I've seen Chris Evans in is Sunshine. and I like that role the most for him because he played an like it wasn't an antagonist. He was just a shitty person. He was an asshole. Gotcha. And so like he had antagonistic traits. And so here's the thing. Watching Materialist, I saw more of that antagonistic, angry, young Chris Evans. This was made like a long like not a long time ago, but it was pre-Marvel. okay. and it has Killian Murphy in it. okay. Yeah. So it's good movie. weird ending. So but yeah, so I like that first conversation, I'm like, I don't see Captain America, I see that antagonistic shithead. Yeah, he's a douchebag. And so it's like, but he's supposedly not supposed to be the douchebag. He's supposed to be the better option. Yeah. And and so like based on whatever. Yeah. but I'm seeing more of this there like this like horror. horrible person of a character more than what most people know him as Captain America. Yeah, definitely. That says a lot about the person that he's portraying. Yeah, and for me, like the thing about this guy being a poor guy, and we see it a couple of times in the movie, we see it in when she goes out to have a smoke with him. He's being like a a selfish jerk about not being in plays or whatever. And then later on when we see her have her first night at Harry's apartment and she's like losing her mind about how great the apartment is, and then you like switch to his apartment and see how nasty his apartment is and like he's just like screaming at his roommates and then of course we also watch them scream at each other in the car because they're poor. And what really makes me mad about this movie is that To me, John is portrayed as the one you should feel sorry for But it's like the reasoning behind it is just because he's poor. Right. And who cares? There's a lot of poor people out there. More poor people than rich people. and they're not being a jackass. Yep. And so it was like I get what song the director writer is trying to do. She's trying to say that this is the good guy. But for me you couched all of that like here's the background music and here's the lighting and here's this and here's this. Like you couched that with a guy who's just being a douchebag. Yep. And like I only know about this because I've read it and some minimal interactions online but like I know that song did get quite a bit of blowback for this. Good. Which I think is a good thing and she kind of double down on that this is like a feminist movie and blah de blah de blah and I like, girl, just because you make the protagonist a female doesn't mean it's a feminist movie. Exactly. And for me with John another thing that I noticed as I was watching is that he doesn't actually say nice things about Lucy. No. Like she says bad things about herself. He doesn't argue with her. He doesn't disagree with her. But he loves her. And that's all that matters. Go fuck yourself. Like genuinely. that's not how this works and I think it's a really dangerous precedent to set in our media when it comes to relationships. And like and this bothers me because like it's essentially saying along the lines of like As long as you love each other, it'll work out. It's the right choice. No, that's what leads to abuse. that's what leads to domestic violence. That's what leads to murder of the wife. I'm sorry, but she getting annihilated. Yeah. she'll probably lay down and take it. Probably. Like she'll probably say that it's her fault. Yeah. Like she already thinks her fault. she brought it on herself. She already thinks that it's her fault. Like he's not even abusing. Like he's already abusing her. and and like here's the frustrating thing, like, with John's character, is that he doesn't want to do better. No. Like, neither does she. Like, we see everybody in this movie not want to do better. I mean, the main protagonist. We're gonna talk about Sophie in a minute. Okay, because I do want to talk, I desperately want to talk about Sophie. Absolutely, yeah. Cause a lot of my issues with Lucy essentially come down to Sophie. I agree a hundred percent. For me, it comes down to to Sophie and an extension how she is with Ador. Yeah the the the dating company. so the final scene where he's outside Sophie's apartment with her and he's like, I can't promise to be less poor, but I can do this, this, this, this, and this. And I'm like, bro, you You're not gonna do any of that shit. I got a headache rolling my eyes so hard. Like genuinely like so stupid. there's this term, I don't know if you've heard about it just because I'm on Different circles of the internet, but it's called future faking. No. Okay, so future faking is essentially a thing that men do where they promise things in the future. But they have no intention of following through. So basically everything that men say lie. Exactly. It's just a it's just a just a specific way of saying. It's just a a trending term to say lie. Yeah. John is fucking lying to her. And Because it'll get her back with him. And the really annoying thing about that. to me is that in the previous scene at the wedding that they like crazy that they crashed. That they just existed in. They just kind of existed at. like hey, if you're gonna not know the people at your own wedding to that extent, then I guess you deserve it. Maybe get a smaller wedding? I don't know. So they crash this wedding the night before and he literally yells at her and says, Do you think I'm worthless? Is that why you're here? Is that why you're trying to get back together with me? And then the next morning he's like, Ooh, I'm in love with you and I'll never stop. And I really do think that this this like flip-around for him for John, There's this scene in the car where sh the first night when she's talking to John, where he says that his roommate got engaged to the OnlyFans girl. Right. And she says, Well, good for him. Yeah. That was her response. And I agree with her. Yeah. but he immediately kind of like pushed back at it. Yeah. Like, how dare you? why do you think that's true? And she, you know, gives the math, quote unquote, about the other person, and that's the best he's gonna get. I also think that She, the OnlyFans girl, deserves better. Yep. But that's me. Like there's also living with? I think so. Because honestly, it was hard to tell. I couldn't figure out if it he originally had three roommates or just two. I know. Yeah, like another It was hard to tell. And I was also already ticked at it. I it was yeah. No, I was literally listening this morning when I watched it and I still can't tell you if he was genuinely living with three other people or just two. Right. like I can't remember if the detail was that the the friend that was getting married had moved out to live with the kids' false fiance and the one that was left was like was the other guy was the other guy. I think that might be the case. So my so it's moot mood point. Yeah, it's it's it's like but yeah, like so she she was about to say like based on the behavior of the roommate, yeah, she can definitely do better. Yeah, exactly. Like it's this is crazy and it it's Like, so so yeah, like for me, like the quick turnaround for me also makes me think he's realizing that he can't do better. Yeah, and so he's like, and and here's the thing about the dinner conversation with Harry and that conversation with John, even though Lucy's a terrible person. She's still a woman, which means that she inevitably, even without her 80 grand a year before taxes, brings more to the table than John ever will. Yeah. Because she's a woman. Yep. And her not knowing this will come back when we talk about a Adore and how she treats her clients. Yeah. But I do think that that morning when he's like, I love you and I'll always love you and that's the only thing I can offer you, to me that is him realizing that he's getting the best. possible option and she loves him so he has the power. Like that's the thing. I don't believe she loves him. I don't really believe anybody loves anybody in this movie. No, it's just like you know between Harry and her it's a it's a transaction. Yeah. I don't think she's capable of loving anybody and she's just settling for somebody who she already knows. And John just hasn't met anybody else that he wanted to put his dick in enough to get her, and so he thinks that's love. Which means that he will cheat on her. Absolutely. 100% inevitable. that in this particular situation of John and Lucy, he's going to cheat. the reason they broke up was because he was poor. She didn't change. No, and neither did he. Like so the point is that it was like because her problem with him being poor is what they fought about, what they broke up about. Yeah. Because she still doesn't change, she still has that problem with him being poor. Yeah. Doesn't matter if it's sunshine and rainbows right now. No. It won't be and it won't be faster than before. It will take months. Yeah. In a matter of months, they are going to be at each other's throats and they are gonna break up again or she's gonna Be dead. Yeah. that's just how it goes because neither one of them changed. Nothing about why they broke up changed between breaking up and getting back together. Exactly. And so there's just they're just gonna do it over and over again. Yeah, it's just gonna be this cycle that that carries on the cycle over and over and over again. just because it wasn't abusive before does not mean that it will not become abusive. Like you mentioned, he already has the aggressive behavior. Yeah. And so, like, he's just going to get more and more frustrated with failure after failure because he's not doing anything to change why he's failing. And so like the only thing that maybe indicates there is the slightest inkling that he might change is that he's like, I'll pick up more hours catering, which is gonna last for three months. I know exactly that's why it's just An inkling is that it can last like you know, all it takes is something on the acting side, like say something like because he was just in a show or something, say something about that means that something works out, like it does actually lead to another show, and then that fails because like he is only as good as he is, that where he's as old as he is, and he doesn't actually have a lot of experience. Yeah, and that's going to mean that he'll maybe succeed every once in a while. but ultimately he will fail because he's not actually improving. And so just the tiniest inkling that he might change I thought Penny from Big Bang Theory Yeah. It did remind me of that where we did see her like just gradually get worse and worse and worse because she kept failing. And then she did actually commit to changing careers and did become successful. and like ensure there was still stuff coming up where she wasn't really doing a job she was happy doing, but she was more financially secure than she ever was. And it's been Too long since I've seen like the last couple seasons of that. but it did make me think about that, where she actually did commit to the changes to improve her life because what she was doing wasn't working, and she recognized that and made a change. Right. We only hear him say one sentence about possibly making that, and there's nothing that he did throughout the movie to indicate that he's actually going to change. Yeah, and and she didn't either because it ended off saying I was gonna put in my notice, but no. Than like, well, we're gonna promote you, and she's like, I'll think about it. She's taking the money. a hundred percent. She only cares about money. she does not have a reason to not care mostly about money. Yeah. And And she has even more reason to take the money because she's committing herself to a poor man. Right. Right. Like everything is there for this just to end up worse than them breaking up. and sure you can be hopeful about it as like, if she did take the leadership position, then maybe what happened with Sophie wouldn't happen again. she could like change things, but she's still talking exactly how she talked before. She's still approaching things exactly as she did before. She didn't change. Is she still the exact same person? And so you really have to care about change and have actively changed to do something that will like potentially crash a company. Definitely, yeah. I do want to dedicate actual time to adore and the situation there. but I understand that like situationally and character wise, obviously it's it's very ingrained into what Lucy's character is. but we're gonna talk about Sophie next because I wanna talk about Sophie so bad. only good character in the old entire She's so awesome. I can't believe that some asshole referred to her as fat and forty. I have never Wanted to punch a fictional character so bad. She's so pretty. I'm so done talking about these three main protagonists. Yep. so I want to talk about Sophie because I think that she is a really, important part of the story. it shows A lot more of who Lucy is as a person. Yep. again not good. And that was such a thing as like because I was expecting like what happened, like Sophie to be a catalyst for Lucy to genuinely change, and then she just didn't. So first I want to talk about how other people see Sophie. So we've sort of already talked about how Lucy sees herself. Lucy sees herself as judgmental, cold. transactional. we know kind of what Harry sees himself as. We kind of know what John sees himself as. Poor essentially is all John sees himself as. Harry sees himself as rich and a good business transaction. Sophie is described by Lucy as okay. I almost turn off the movie at that point. But it's like no, if I turn it off, I'm never starting it up again. You just have to like suffer through. Yes. The first thing we hear about Sophie is that she's fat and 40. She's not. As a plus size person. That woman's not fat. That woman is straight side. She's not even Hollywood fat. Like, who are we kidding? that guy, I think his name is James. he ended his contract with a door because Lucy sent him on a date with Sophie. Right. That's how pissed off he was. about fat and forty. also someone who is 40. Who cares? He was also in his forties. Right. Like I think like that's the thing. Like, if he wanted to get somebody younger that he could manipulate and and mold and all that, then that's what he should have asked for. Which we see in another exactly happen. so we see James describe her that way. We see Lucy describe her as okay, even though she really likes her, quote unquote. She's her favorite client right now, but no one will date her because no one just wants a nice girl. You gotta wonder like Are you getting more money out of her and that's why she's your favorite client? I did wonder about this and I Googled it, and I don't know how accurate this is. But I did want to mention, because it's important to this movie, obviously I have no idea about Adore because it's a fictional company. Right. as far as I can tell Both men and women pay for matchmaking services. Right. which would make sense. That makes sense. because we do that on dating apps. Right. We all pay for different tiers. Right. and it says though It's not prostitution, actually. Right. So though pricing models vary by agency, traditionally men hired matchmakers while women joined databases for free. But modern firms now charge paying clients of all genders who want active customized searches. So, Standard service, again, this is just Google, so bear with me. mid-range professional packages typically cost between five thousand and twenty-five thousand dollars. Of course they do. Elite services, high end VIP or global concierge services can range from twenty-five to a hundred thousand dollars. So which I don't think I would say that a door isn't that because Lucy only makes eighty thousand a year. Exactly. Like So like just going off of that alone. And this is an absolutely woman led field. So you don't have the wage gap. Yep. that does still exist. and so it's like, you know, there's literally no men in that office or anything like that. This is totally being driven by women, which isn't even worse. and like, you know, like image wise. like not for that office but like taking into consideration the implications of the message that this movie is putting across the fact that it's all women doing this yeah especially what happens with Sophie and other clients and other clients and that makes it so much worse. Yeah definitely so personally I wouldn't be surprised if some obviously we know that Sophie pays a fee because she mentions it. Yep. and they also mention after one of the dates it took an hour for someone to convince Sophie not to leave the service. Right. What is interesting is that no one talked about getting James back. So it is interesting that women are still more valuable than the male clients. Yeah. their motivations are different. Exactly. and so like you look at it and what it's saying is that the women are more valuable because they actually want this more, so they're willing to go through more shit and pay more money for longer. And so that makes them more valuable. the men are just a necessary evil kind of and sure you can get a lot of they can get the money out of that side. Sure. But they are not the ones that are actually putting in the work here. No, no and they don't. Like that's the th Thing that we see across platforms and across dating experiences. I truly love social media for the fact that it really made talking about dating not just something we did with our mother and our grandmother and our aunts and and the women in our lives. We're now hearing it from all sorts of women from all different walks of life. And the thing about it is we know what women are saying is true. Because it's the same across all the spectrums that you can imagine. The same stories are happening to everybody. So, what really makes me mad about Sophie's situation is first of all, she's a really sweet, beautiful woman that truly deserves what she's asking for. And she says more than once, I'm not asking for a miracle, I'm trying to settle. This is a woman who is forty, and as someone who is forty, I have no intention of settling. I would rather be single than abused for the rest of my frickin' life. And it makes me so sad to see, like, in the beginning with Charlotte, she's another good example of this, and Sophie, like crying because they desperately need a man to feel. like a whole person. And this is what patriarchy and misogyny and like romanticizing marriage has done to women for generations. And it is what this movie is trying to sell to you Right. it seems like what she was trying to do was trying to like shine a light on relationships between men and women, but she did it in such a crappy way that it ended up sending the wrong message. And what ended up happening with Sophie is so normal. like one in three women are sexually assaulted. I think it's even higher. I think every woman or at least ninety nine percent of women experience sexual harassment. So what Sophie is going through as just an okay woman. the difference there is like it's the one in three that have actually been assaulted. No, I know the difference. So rather than harassment. Yeah. Harassment is That's what I meant. Yeah. Like harassment is like ninety nine percent, if not a hundred percent of women like like I know percent are ones that have never met a man before. Literally. and all they did was watch a movie and they are actually just harassed by men on the T V. No, but it's like it's been consistent. Yes. And because it's not coming strictly from the DOJ but it is also like rain and other similar organizations that keep track of of those kinds of statistics but they're not relying on actual cases They are using Anonymous data intake. which is one of the most reliable ways when you're talking about crime. Yeah, exactly. yeah, so Sophie makes me want to cry and like viscerally angry. especially watching how Lucy deals with her. And then obviously we were we already talked about James, but then she gets set up with Mark who and I do want to talk about this next, but Lucy spends most of her conversations with Sophie Talking her out of her minimums. Yep. Whereas most of the men she deals with, they're allowed to have their minimums be respected Yep. And so she'll convince these people to lower their standards. That's what I was trying to say. they're trying to get people to lower their standards, but with Sophie, because she's okay, quote unquote, Lucy spends all of her time talking to Sophie and convincing her to go out with men that have no right to go out with a woman like Sophie. To go out with a woman. To go out with a woman, period. Like have Lucy. Right, exactly. We don't care about her. And so she goes out with Mark who she's been trying to push onto Sophie for weeks now, and he rapes her. And that's a huge part of not just Sophie's story, but also Lucy, because Lucy kind of goes through this like Adore is bad. And this was one thing that really pissed me off, but also like equally confused me. Is how floored and surprised she is? She's shocked. That she is so genuinely confused that you sent strangers out on a date with each other and one got raped. This is literally every woman's fear about going out and dating. How do you not know that? When you grew up poor. And and so it's just like it how is this the first time it has ever entered her awareness of the world at all that you are not a man. you are a woman. You know this. And so like I got so pissed off. Like how did Song think that this was realistic? Yeah. did she not believe that women? and killed on dates? I don't know. It's so crazy to me because like to me what it feels like is she knows that women get raped, but she never wanted to be directly connected to one but the fact that she thinks that it could never have happened is so crazy. Yeah no it's literally impossible especially if you are looking at the format of matching people up like did you do background checks or are you just taking the Trust Me Bro interview. Yeah it's a vibe. So right because every Man leads with, by the way, I'll rape her. Yeah. No, they don't. No, they don't. And so it's just like, if you are not gonna do the bare minimum, how do you not expect the worst to happen? Yeah. And so, like, I bet if she actually did like five seconds worth of research into her own company, she would have known that this had happened before. and I bet you'll find a death. Yeah, probably. Yeah, someone it got hushed. hushed and that is like watching Uber or Lyft create things in their apps to allow you to pick women only drivers or women only passengers not because they cared about women but because the court cases were my ass is out let's cover it up. Yeah exactly exactly like my ass is out I should probably cover that. They finally got so many complaints or like lawsuits against them that it made sense to finally do something about it. Because these companies give no flying fucks about women until it costs them money on their bottom line. So you know that when it comes to Adore like all they're doing, this is what terrifies me. And I don't know if it's true from the movie because honestly, I just watched it again for the second time because I also hate it. I'll bet you it's very much like the Catholic priests. Mark is still a customer. Yes. To me, I feel like Mark is probably still a customer. Probably. So especially because Mark truly did not believe he raped Sophie. No. That man thought he had a good date. Yep. And the thing that he said about Sophie after he raped her was like, Well, I don't interested in a second date but that's about it. Like are you crazy? And then he liked quote unquote her enough to stalk her. Yep. Like are you cra mmm Yeah. I also didn't like that the movie made it out that Sophie could have been imagining it. Right. That Mark wasn't there when they got there. I don't like that song made it very obvious that there's a chance that she was making it Well maybe she thought that it was enough that like when she was on the phone with Lucy You can hear the buzzing of the door. So like that's the only thing that fully saves it from that. Yeah. and I know that this is a subplot, but it's to me the plot that matters. Because it's the character that we cared about. It's the character that we cared about. It's also showing Lucy's ass because she's not a good person. She says these stupidest cliched things to Sophie after she gets raped By one of Lucy's clients. Like Are you kidding me? She still says the bullshit about Sophie getting married to the love of her life. Go fuck yourself. Let's make sure we keep her business. Cause you know, we'll only get her business if she still wants to use us to get to get married. Like Yourself. I hate it. I it just I hate it so much. And what really makes me mad is that when I brought up these comments and these concerns about the messages that this movie was sending with a lot of its characters, people online ripped me a new one. And honestly, I expect Some people to listen to this and be real mad about it because people don't like being called out when it ends up being really misogynistic. Like no one likes being called out about that. And this movie is so incredibly misogynistic that it's painful to watch for me. And I forced my sister to watch it too. So we could have this reaction. and she doesn't live in my basement, y'all. She lives upstairs. Yeah, no, like she has me locked in the attic. It's totally in the attic. She lets me have air. She has a window that opens and everything. Just come on. It's one inch by one inch, but it still opens. It still opens. But like I said, like I was watching it at work, you know, and I work a graveyard shift and so I know Crysda keeps her phone muted through the night. I was very tempted to like just send her middle fingers over and over again. Every single time. Why did you make me watch this? Like, I was like, sure, we'll get a vent out about it, but I still watched it. You made me watch this garbage. Like make her wake up to like 50 texts just on middle fingers. Be like, she watched the movie. Yeah. Instead, I got home in the morning and glared at it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. but yeah, one of the other things about Sophie when you look at her relationship with Lucy. Really makes again Lucy the male character to me is that Sophie keeps forgiving Lucy. Yeah. Like over and over and over again. And this is something that women do with men so frequently. And to our detriment, like she got raped by a person that Lucy sent her on a date with, and she stayed with the company. The company that essentially paid her off. I think. I mean, we don't actually know what happened with the court case because she was still talking to lawyers. But I wouldn't be surprised if Lucy also convinced her to drop the case. absolutely. because it would be in Adore's best interest to drop the case. And she also stayed with them long enough to go on another frickin' date. so I to me, it's something that happened in Obsession too, where they make the man specific behaviors and put it into a woman's character. And to me like that's essentially triangulating other women against women and we're showing men that they can blame women for a woman's behavior. Yep. To me, that is a really dangerous, damaging thing. And it's also incredibly disingenuous. The that it is coming from a woman creator makes it so much more damaging. So much fucking worse. I do want to talk about Adore as a business model. I know that we've already talked about it a little bit, but we talked a little bit about the fact that only women work there. And I do want to bring up a thing that John says to her in the bar where she's like, it's just dating, it's no big deal. And for me One of the things I think in that moment, I was like, okay, first of all, fuck you. John, surprisingly, not Lucy. John doesn't understand that dating, first of all, is dangerous, it's difficult, it's so many things because a big part of our society, we are social creatures, we do desire partnership in our life. So these systems or these companies that like support us, quote unquote, while we're dating, they do like what Lucy's boss said, these people like Lucy are being put into the most vulnerable positions of these people's lives and they're doing it without Any real training to do what they're doing. Like no safety nets, no safety protections. It's like you are sending a woman on a first date on a trust me bro basis for a background check. And like you don't have her on the phone or have anything set up and yeah, sure, she talked to her like on the date that that she got that she got raped on, and like okay, well I'm just just gonna assume that it went okay instead of like, hey, I'm gonna talk to you immediately after you're done. Yeah. Like if I don't talk to you in an hour, something's wrong. Yeah. Kind of thing. Or like if or if you don't tell me or if I don't hear something specifically from you saying, I'm okay still, this is what's happening, or you know, it didn't go well, it did go well, and also all those kinds of things. If you do not have a system in place to protect the woman Because that's the side that needs the protection. Yep. Because that's what happens. That is just the reality of what you're doing. then what you're just doing is you are orchestrating crime. Yeah, definitely. And for me, obviously I understand that matchmaking companies exist and honestly I've never cared enough to pay. I don't even pay for dating apps because honestly what they charge you for is trash anyways. They charge you to look at dick pics. Yeah, pretty much. 'cause those are always fun. And I know that we said it before, but like because only women work there, it's more of a betrayal to other women. the other thing that I was gonna say is the reason why John thinks that dating is not that big of a deal is because for men, dating isn't that big of a deal. It's not. and then The other thing They're not told that their that their only value to society is wrapped up in marriage and having kids. Yeah, and that's the interesting thing, right, is that because it's a romance and it's a movie, we don't really know any of these people because writers of of romance movies are trash when it comes to character development. I think horror does better sometimes. It absolutely does. So, and obviously we're talking about side characters and side stories, but these side stories are very important to who Lucy is as a character. And so adore as a company is reprehensible. And the fact that only women work there, to me, it makes it so much worse, like you said. And her supervisor, like she was absolutely taking the male's side. yeah, definitely. And that's the other Because he wasn't the one threatening a lawsuit. So that automatically makes the woman who was the victim the bad guy. Right, because she's gonna cost the company more money. Yep. and that's the frustrating thing about being male-centered and like because I do want to talk about the interviews here in just a second. where she meets with a bunch of men and then she meets with a bunch of women. Right. you can tell the difference in those interviews, which is crazy. so it's interesting because like when you look at how Adore is ran as a company, like these people are like, this is your ninth wedding. this is your fourth wedding and I was like, this is your fourth divorce. this is your ninth divorce. Yep. this is your eighth rape, like really think about the stats of how many women deal with abuse, and I'm not talking about D V, that is a part of it, but it's not the only part of it. When you're talking about abuse as a spectrum, you're talking about like verbal abuse, emotional abuse, financial abuse all the way up to D V, and like physical violence and murder. and rape is in there too because marital rape is a frickin' thing. like you're talking about all of these women that you're putting into the care of men who don't Take care of them. Right. so when I'm watching it, when I see her get her little rah-rah thingy about nine marriages, all I can think of is look. Your fifth divorce because you know and like in this like 50%. Like and that's the thing. It's not actually 50%. Lucy believes it too. Exactly. Exactly. She truly believes what she believes. like the Kool-Aid is strong. And that's the thing about being male-centered, and this is something that I've really learned with deconstruction, is being male-centered means that you have to be dumb. Wanted to say that in a better way, but sometimes blunt is the best. you have to Pretend that you don't set up every date where you meet with a stranger by sending your best friend your coordinates. you have to pretend that going over to a guy's house for the first time means that you might get raped. You pretend that getting married won't end in divorce that you have to file for because the son of a bitch won't be your partner or a father to your kids or he won't get a job or he won't. Pay the bills and you get left with like the worst possible situations of your life. Like men destroy women so often. It's it's terrifying. And so for me, watching someone like Sophie forgive Lucy and stay with Adore is watching someone drink the Kool-Aid. Yep. Because she truly still believes that she's not good enough to be on her own. Yep. We see Charlotte in the beginning say that she only wants to marry the man because it makes her sister jealous. That made me so. This is another thing about this movie. like I saw that and I was like, right, and gay marriage ruins the sanctity of marriage. Yeah, sure. The queer people are the only ones doing anything good for marriage. And that's the other thing, is that male centered women do. is triangulate women against each other. And I truly think that that scene with Charlotte in the beginning, when she says that Peter makes her sister jealous, that's triangulation against her and her sister. I see it in so many things. And we're being triangulated against Lucy. because of the person that they made her into. So we as the viewer is like, so don't be a gold digger. men don't want them. Like they're not good. Like we don't want to be them. So Lucy is being portrayed in a specific way. We are responding to her because of very specific things that has nothing to do with the gold digging thing. but it's like because we don't like her, in a lot of ways we're being triangulated against a woman character and we see more value in the male characters. To be fair, I don't see any value in any of the male characters. Yeah, no, like that's the thing, is just like When you look at her holistically, it's like sure there is that that aspect of villainizing these male traits, and putting them in a woman. But like the things that that you know, we both actually have issue with the characters about have actually nothing to do with that and it's who they are as people. Right. Like we don't like them of what we see of them as people. Right. And so like gender has nothing to do with Do with that. Yeah, exactly. And so sure, putting these male traits on the female character does make it worse. Yeah, definitely. but ultimately, like, this is a horrible person. Yeah, she is not good for humans, so bye-bye. Yeah, you can go. And it is interesting because I do think that it's important to remember that if you don't have media literacy, yeah, then you're probably going to miss some of these things. absolutely. so when you're talking about what people may or may not see from this movie, I literally had people on Reddit, I know it's a trash fire, tell me how dare you decide that John was an abusive man? And I was like, he is abusive. We literally saw it. We saw him be abusive. You're just wanting to think that because it's Chris Evans and you think he's pretty. Yeah, and you can look at him but you don't have to go to bat for a fictional character. I do think that when we talk about fictional characters, when we engage with fictional characters, we learn a lot about ourselves and each other. And I do think that they create really important dynamics and really important conversations. But you don't have to die on a cross for an abusive man. Right. Like a fictional abusive man. Right. So, like, it's crazy to me that people were like going to bat for John's character because I dared to actually talk about what usually happens in relationships like that. there's actually quite a bit of proof out there to say that when a woman makes more than a man in a relationship. first of all, is more likely to do less work across the board in the household. Yep. and we have already said multiple times during this episode that she is definitely gonna get cheated on, and someone could die. Probably her. Like, that's what we're talking about. And so if you cannot look at movies that are made to represent life and we can't have critical thought about that, it puts us in a really dangerous situation, especially when you're talking about heterosexual relationships between men and women. It it's just really damaging. And I think that this movie, besides having a pretty Pascal moment or two, was really just bad. And I do think that song deserved to to get called out for what she put in this movie because it's not good. I do feel kinda bad for Dakota Johnson like for doing this. I don't know what her thoughts are are on it at all about doing it. But like, you know, I've seen her in interviews and stuff and she seems like a decent person. Yeah. But like she's got fifty shades of grey and the materialist on her filmography. I feel sorry for her. It's bad. It's not good. yeah, so the one of the other things I want to talk about is the interviews, and I do think that the interviews are also a really important part that kind of shows you the difference between how she talks to and is talked to by her clients, and it also like and essentially it's like how it happens. No wonder she got one of her. clients raped. this is all she does. Yeah, exactly. and so you know like how has it not happened more often for her? I'm shocked honestly. Like it's it's crazy. And I do think that the point in the movie that the interviews happen are supposed to show it's showing her like because it was after Sophie got raped. Right. And so it was showing her losing patience with that Was supposed to be taken as she's changing her opinion. No, she didn't. And and so, like, yeah, like she just she lost her temper and stuff like that on the interviews, and that it was so it was supposed to be something that it ended up not being. Right, and and for me, I think it would have been more impactful if they had swapped them and had her meeting with men during that scene. It showed both, right? It was primarily women for sure. but I thought I'm yeah, so when she talked to the men, they would say crazy things and she'd be like, Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah. Of course. Yeah, I can't imagine what it's like to date children. Like she didn't say that, but she should have. like one guy said, I don't care about anything as long as they're fit, which means not fat. And he said something stupid like twenty BMI. Something yeah. What yeah, it was a stupid number. Isn't that just a skeleton? Pretty much. an you just know that there would be more things added. she can't be 29. Yep. she has to be in her early twenties, she has to be this, And so there's just like this initial intake interview or whatever, that's just the first thing cause they're trying to make a good impression like you know that they're trying to get what they think that the company will provide. I think they also want a wider pool. Yeah. and so it's like he's not asking for much but like what he's actually asking for is not a person. Right. or like the guy who was like, I want someone who's like a combination of the last four women I went on a date with That was what I was thinking of because she was so you know, she was like well, Dr. Frankenstein. Yeah, I'm Dr. Frankenstein and stuff like that. Yeah, and the one that really got me was the guy who's like mid forties, almost fifty, and he wanted to date twenty-seven year olds because twenty-two was too young. Yep. And she was like, Well, I have some women in their thirties. He's pulling a Leo DiCaprio thing. And it's so gross 'cause I like like what you should be doing when you're managing expectations, big quote unquote, is tell that man not To date children. Yeah. that's the reality. Because what he's saying is, I want someone who's easy to coerce and control. I somebody who looks as close as I can legally get to a child. A child, to somebody underage. What's also really interesting, and this makes me wonder about like a tier system, like a payment system, yeah, is like how many 20-year-olds can afford a luxury dating service. Also Why would they want one? Right. They don't actually want one. Yeah. So because they don't need one. They're in their twenties. They're probably dating whoever they want to. Right. They're women in their twenties. They're dating who they want. And so what makes me think that maybe there are women in the service that maybe aren't paying anything or paying less to be a part of the service is that conversation. I think that conversation kind of threw me off. I like, What twenty year olds are paying for a dating service? But yeah, like those interviews, like she was like super like mm, you know, yeah, I can't imagine dating someone who was born in the two thousands is super you know, it's hard to talk to them. And then showing the only queer person as being like a fucking conservative lesbian. I got so pissed about that. I was like as a queer person And someone who is always desperate for more like recognition and representation in something, it is genuinely disgusting. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are conservative lesbians. I'm sure that that happens. yeah, no, like that's that absolutely happens. because you know you can be conservative all across the diaspora of people. but showing I think she was black too. I think so. I think that was the one black character that they chose. Is grotesque. Like that is some grotesque shit. Yeah. Like that is homophobic, racist, sexist. Sexist. Just everything. You got all the it's in one person. Yeah, no, like you had a list and you're like, I'ma do them all. I can get them all. I'm gonna go Pokemon with this shit. The references I'm making today are wild. I know. It also reminded me of when we were talking about Odyssey I don't know, a couple weeks ago. Yeah. When we were talking about how I was like, isn't it nice that Christopher Nolan gave people ways to be racist, misogynistic, and transphobic all in once? That's so sweet of him. He is such a great guy. He's such a great guy. he likes to be very considerate in this project. He's so considerate to the conservative anti-woke nutbags. He's just so nice. Yeah. but yeah, did you wanna talk about anything else in the interviews? No. Honestly, they were just so frustrating to me. maybe if something about them had actually stuck. Yeah. But like you know, it's like I said, because it was supposedly showing how she's changing and if there had been anything meaningful to happen because of them, then maybe then like there was the potential like I guess I will say a little. Bit more like there was potential right there to turn like that was potentially the moment where you started rooting for Lucy. Yes, definitely, because it felt like she was fighting for her clients. Yes. Like you know, I've mentioned that the one bad thing I've heard about Christian Bale was like one bad day on set. Sure, yeah, everybody has a bad day at work, right? And you say things you definitely should not say, right? But it's that day, it's one day, yeah. You are having a bad day, unless it changes over time, it's a day, yeah, and that's all it was, yeah, because that's all it boiled down to, it was like all that potential in that scene is gone and it's meaningless. Yeah. It it sucks I think this really sucks in movies when 'Cause I think it also sucks in life when this happens. But it sucks in movies when you see something like that and it becomes potential wasted. which again, maybe she did on purpose. I I might be giving her too much credit. but that's again something that we see a lot with heterosexual relationships. We see that a lot with women marrying and dating on potential and then they get promised, they get future faked by men and their moms, by people in the world because they get told that they can't be anything unless they're a bride like Charlotte says in the beginning of the movie. I could have been a modern woman. I could have been anything, but I chose to be a bride and there like there's a fucking middle ground. Like you can be both. What the hell? You can actually be both. You just drank the Kool-Aid. Yeah, and I think that a lot of us are Charlotte without deconstruction. I mean, I know that there there are people that they're like, We don't really care about marriage, we don't care about that experience. but a lot of women and a lot of little girls are taught that their wedding day is that day, that day that we're all supposed to wait for. what is that stupid kicker's name? Harrison Butker, who says that it's so great that you guys now have college educations, but your life will only begin once you get married and have kids. God, I've forgotten about that. That shit lives right free in my head. It probably doesn't help that there's a whole Mr. Pick Me and the Man Hater podcast episode about it. Of course, of course. And so I've listened to it at least three times. by the way, excellent podcast. Go listen to that. but yeah, so we just don't have anything to look forward to as a woman and as a little girl we're taught to think of our wedding day and plan it and think about it and marry our dolls together and They should all have wedding gowns and blah de blah di blah. so much of that, like I really feel that in Charlotte's character, but also in Sophie's character because they're so desperate to do what the world told them they should be doing. And that's why this podcast is so important to me because they didn't get that shit just from their parents. No. the idea that women are only good enough or worth anything through the marriage to a man, that shits in everything we do. And being able to call that out is really valuable to us as women and us as people, so we can marry people that we want to marry. God forbid. and actually have healthy relationships. And here's another side that I think ends up being missed, maybe because of the approach or people just don't think about it. is that if we have advances in the approach towards women and their value in society, men will benefit too. Definitely always. Like it will actually improve across the board. It always has. Because here's the thing is that men making themselves Just a bank account is like they objectified themselves. Sure did. And so like and continue to do so. They continue to do so. And so, but they just don't see it like that. Like the only men who actually see it as objectification aren't men like that. Exactly. They are men calling out that kind of behavior for what it is. And so if you have things that are like marriage is about a relationship, that it's something that you both want, that you're only married. To the person that you love and you want to be married to, then everybody benefits. Exactly. Society will benefit. And so all humanity will benefit from this. And so, if we have to take a feminist route to get there, we'll take it. Yeah, and we'll take the scenic route to betterment. Right. And that's what you know, not to be political, but that's what the conservatives are very upset about. That's why they're trying to take away no fault divorce and they're trying to do a bunch of different things because they're worried about women continuing this crazy shenanigan of wanting to be treated well in our marriages if we choose to get married. and that's just crazy. according to a lot of people. How dare we want to be treated like humans? And that is essentially what we're talking about with this movie is that no one is treated like a human in this movie by any of these characters really. Yep. and I know we brought it up a couple of times throughout, but value and worth comes up a lot in this movie. So as we said, Charlotte feels valuable because Peter is better than her sister's husband. Lucy feels valuable because Harry takes an interest in her. John feels worthless because Lucy leaves her rich boyfriend and tries to get back together with him. Like there's a lot to say about worth and value. And I think if Song had been trying to say something valuable, what she would have said in those conversations is Charlotte, you have worth because you're a human being. Yep. Lucy, you have worth because you're a human being. And to be fair, Harry's the only one really who gets it close. Right? which is crazy because bro just wanted a business transaction. The born into rich rich guy is the most human. That it's just like And then it could be like we talked about is it could be just, you know, the perception of this is Pedro Yeah. and like he just comes across as big doe eyes just are ridiculous. It's hard to ignore them. So like that's why that's why they don't take the helmet off on Mandalorian. you gotta keep that helmet on. Yeah, no, like he will not stay as the badass You'll just see the doe eyes. That's all you See when you're looking at Pedro's face. yeah, so you're talking about these people, and also Sophie says that Lucy thinks that Sophie is worthless. That's the only reason she would have sent her on that date with Mark. Yep. And I think that if someone had wanted to create a really amazing through line. Instead of it being worthless, you tell each person that they don't have to be married or be with someone to be worthwhile. Yeah, their worth is who they are. Not what somebody else makes them. but it's very clear that's not the message that Song wanted to send. Song apparently wanted to be like, Get married, girl. That's the only worth you got. Yeah, no, she was just so Get that dick wet. It was all about You have to end up married or you have no values. Which we know that Lucy did get married to him. Yep. In the end, they went and were sitting in like a judge's office to get whatever that's called. The cheap wedding. So a marriage license. Yeah, so we know the only thing that actually matters about a wedding is the marriage license. Everything else doesn't matter. it's just tradition and spending money and the wedding industry. It's capitalism. Yeah, one of the other things that kind of is a through line of the movie is that Marriage is a business arrangement, and the thing that I want to mention is that Lucy doesn't seem to understand all aspects of the business. No. of marriage. Otherwise, she would be a much different person. Absolutely. because she doesn't seem to understand. Well, clearly she was shocked by the rape. Right. How does he even understand everything about the part that she's involved with that she's directly responsible for? Yeah, and here's the thing, I've heard this from content creators before who talk about like anti misogyny and treating women like humans. they talk about how If you were in a business arrangement with somebody and they abused you in some way, You would end that business relationship. If you have a brain, you walk away. And so it's not a business relationship, it's not a business transaction without protections in place. We don't get into business arrangements without protections in place. So if we are truly going to treat marriage like a transaction, because to be fair. Marriage, for the most part, does not benefit women. So I truly believe that women treating marriage like a transaction and dating like a transaction is actually safer for us, but not the way that Lucy does it. No. she has the premise, but the follow-through blows. There it is. That's what the problem is. So she she's also future faking just as badly. Yep. As John does. She future fakes with her clients, especially the women. but yeah, so if you're going to make marriage a business arrangement, then make it worth your while. Because people don't get into business arrangements that aren't worth their while. So it's idiotic for women to just think it's acceptable to get into a business arrangement that does not function for them. So I do think that we need to be aware of these things. And I do think that in some weird ways, like materialists kind of shone a light on how awful people can be in the dating market and with each other. Yeah. But here's the crazy thing. Women already knew that. Yeah. So who was she telling? Besides herself, maybe? I guess. Cause she thought that men don't watch romance movies. Not really. not in mass, not at the numbers that women do. Yeah, and I have said before, and I cannot guarantee that I made this up, so please forgive me if somebody else said it before me. but I have always said that romance movies are made by men for women. But they're also for men. Because romance movies are doing What men want. They are propagandizing women to accept unacceptable behavior. So that is what we want to finish with. Is Lucy accepting the unacceptable option? Yep. And the caveman scene is real dumb. god, that was like. It's so stupid. It's so stupid. Like, I don't even want to talk about the caveman scene. But It's just so dumb that it's like it's added in there. So she gets a stupid little flower put on her ring finger, and she tells the lady at Adore that she'll think about it. But you know that she's gonna take the job, and you know that John's not gonna do better because he's not gonna do better. And these people are gonna be miserable, but they're doing it for love. And all I can think is she chose the worst possible option. Yep. That's it. Like that's the end of the movie is Lucy was like, I could pick Rich, seemingly nice guy who went out of his way to treat me kindly and probably pretty banging in bed, and he has an awesome apartment. He's very pretty to look at. he knows how to dress. he probably doesn't have skid marks. we could go on. Or we have John. And honestly, I don't want to talk about John anymore. So she chose John because of love. And as we've already said, it's not even love. No. it's like I think this is the closest I can get. it's settling and calling it love. Yes. Yeah, and that's what I hate for Sophie in the end. like finding out that Sophie is still working with Adore and Harry signed himself up for services. I'm not gonna lie, there was a part of me that was like, I really want Harry to go out with Sophie. I did too. I desperately wanted Harry to go out with Sophie. As far as I can tell, like I loved Sophie and she deserved everything and if Harry Is just like you know, it's gonna be a business or whatever, but he'll still treat the person well. Yeah. That's like if nothing else, that's what they deserve. and here's the thing, like because they are both genuinely kind people as far as we can see, they would actually build a genuine relationship and connection. Yeah, and when he was talking about her intangible assets, I think is what he said. Yeah, something like that. The things that he mentioned, Sophie also answers those things. She's smarter than him. She's educated. She's very good at what she does. She's a kind person. Like the things that Harry wants in a partnership, Sophie would actually fill. Exactly. And it's so gross to me that after everything that happened to Sophie, I think that in my little fan fiction creating heart Sophie and Harry belong together. Yep. And I want her to be treated like a frickin' princess for the rest of her goddamn life. Yep. And Harry's probably the closest she's gonna get. And I think that they probably would really fall for each other. I think so. Because I think when you're a kind people and you recognize and you have empathy for each other and you have kindness and love for other people, it's easy to fall in love with other people. Yep. It's when you don't have those things that it's hard, which is why I thought this. kitchen scene I I'm surprised that we didn't talk about this and I have to talk about the kitchen scene. it's so interesting to me that Harry is worried that he can't love someone. Yeah. Because to me Harry feels more like someone who can love someone than Lucy does. in the inner and I think that might be the only like kind of really the only way that him coming from money and having money himself, that did affect him. I believe that. Because it's like I just thought about where Eminem said that he doesn't date because he can't trust that anybody who he dates isn't only with him for his money. Yeah. or his fame he can't trust it. So he just doesn't do it. And so I kinda see that being related. Yeah, definitely. there is that aspect that like it especially because he was born into money. So there's never been a time where he hasn't had money and that this isn't a part of his identity. And so So I think that's the only thing where like him being rich tracks. Yeah, and I think it is valuable to recognize that obviously being born into money does change you, it does affect you. and I think it is interesting that Harry throws a little shade at his brother about the wife that he picked. Yep. And so clearly something was there. Harry does talk about the fact that he and his brother went through the surgeries together, and they're pretty close. I do think that the kitchen scene is a compelling scene just because you see once again how these two people are a lot alike in a lot of ways. but again, Harry, I almost called him Joel. Joel is like forever imprinted on my brain as Pedro Pascal. Harry as a character, again, you really see him if you're a person worried that you can't fall in love. I think that A lot of times that answers the question. Yeah. Whereas like Lucy's like, I don't worry about it. I'm just gonna say I'm in love. Yeah. So It's just a word. Yeah, for her it's just a word. It's just a marketing scheme for her. Like that's all it is. and to be fair, Marrying for love is a marketing scheme. It is. It's propaganda because women suddenly were allowed to have jobs and make their own money. And men suddenly had to be better because up until now they depended on women needing their money to survive in this world. So now men have to be good people and they suck at it. Yeah. Yep. That might be where we stop this. Yeah, no, I think that covers it. Cause this movie was definitely rough to get through, but I'm really glad that it it's one of the the first things that we're recording, because I do want to be very clear about what this podcast is supposed to be about, which is talking about how media affects us and how movies like this, which are treated as this is just what normal Normal people are like. This is just what what it's like to date in the world. and they send such a grotesque message. it's something we need to be able to have media literacy and critical thinking about because I don't think that most people are like this. I just don't think that. So we need to be aware of that and don't fall for the broke man agenda. Yeah. Any final thoughts on the broke man agenda? No, I think that's actually perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you everybody so much for listening. a big part of this is starting a conversation. So I really hope you continue it with us in the comments or in a review or maybe with your friends. Please share this with others. We're starting out on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and more to come in the future. Please recommend things for us to watch and respond to. We look forward to overthinking more with you in the future. Bye, bye.