WEBVTT
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It's it's about having a conversation with the people on your team and understanding what's important to them.
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Oftentimes leaders sit around trying to think about what is what do you think our teams need?
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And they never ask anybody.
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And so the the way that you actually build that engagement is by asking.
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People feel like, okay, you see me and you value my input.
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So that's already a shift in their mind.
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Like, oh, okay, I'm not just a number here.
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But two, if you're willing to actually take information and do something with it, it's like, oh, I can actually have an influence or impact on what's happening here.
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Don't assume, don't do the pizza party and the ice cream thing for the 40th time.
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Overpressure refers to the sudden increase in pressure above the surroundings caused by the wave generated when something explodes.
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It propagates outward from the origin, capable of causing impact, momentum, or disruption, depending on its intensity and distance, is a critical factor in assessing the effects of a mission.
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Welcome to the Overpressure Podcast, where we dive into the explosive world of business for entrepreneurs who are vets or veteran entrepreneurs.
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Hey everybody, welcome back to the Overpressure Podcast.
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We have an amazing guest today who has had, I want to say, a couple different careers at this point, and uh has joined us from Las Vegas, uh, where she's been for a little bit.
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And uh Julia, how are you doing today?
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Man, I am doing well, Austin.
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Thank you so much for having me uh on the show today.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Um you have been running your own thing for several years now, but let's go back kind of to the beginning.
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How did you um I I gotta say it's probably a conscious decision.
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You went um, I I'm assuming Fortune 500 for both of them um out of school.
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What what kind of led you on that pathway?
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Uh so in terms of of of entrepreneurship, because I, you know, when I was in college, I started doing the work that I do now on a much smaller scale.
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So I was doing it for free for friends, family, classmates.
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And so it was just kind of a hobby, even when I started my career in the Fortune 500, because I was in financial services as well as energy.
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Those were the two uh sectors I worked in mainly.
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And so it wasn't until I started my second career in energy where uh one of my clients, which was a friend of mine, was like, hey, you should probably start charging for this.
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I mean, it's cool to get free help, I'm grateful, but you have a knack for this, and so you may want to consider starting your own thing and actually charging people for the services you provide.
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I had never really thought about it at all.
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I'm just like, you know, I just want to help people.
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But then I was like, wait a minute, that might be not that bad of an idea.
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And so that's actually how I got started.
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And the other thing was, you know, I was in recruiting or helping to recruit uh talent to my uh energy company.
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I would go to some of the career fairs and represent our finance function.
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And I noticed that the performance, especially for for folks of color, a lot of times they would come to my booth.
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I they they weren't as polished as I as they could be.
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And I was like, okay, I know that they it's not as I know it's this, they have the skills, they have the background, what's missing here?
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And I'm like, okay, I have the skill set that can help them.
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So how about I actually use my business to do that?
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So between kind of the prompting of my friend and then what I saw kind of in real life at my job, that's what really said, okay, let me lean into actually going on this path.
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Uh, but I didn't quit my day job.
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Um, you know, I continued to build alongside my day job for a long time.
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Uh I'm not one of those just leap people.
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It's like, no, stabilize, yeah, get your money.
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You're you're saying you're in uh finance and you're not the absolute risk taker.
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I like that's so strange.
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Uh-hunk, right?
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Now that that's awesome.
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And it we see people jump into it, but that really is the better pathway, especially um just though being in those positions.
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I'm sure you had so many connections.
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And I'm totally fine saying the name of the company, but I I'll let you start it.
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Um very impressive company, very impressive um progression through that company.
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Um but I'm sure what are some lessons learned that you've been able to apply from you know the Fortune 500 world to now running your own business?
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Yeah.
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So so yeah, so so the two companies I work for, JP Morgan Chase and then Exxon Mobil, uh, and so biggest companies in the world, biggest bank, biggest oil and gas, you know, so so big players.
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Uh so some of the greatest lessons that I've learned is that um you've got to take up space on your own.
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Like opportunities are not just going to come to you.
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So if you want uh that next role, that promotion, that opportunity, that connection, you've got to get after it.
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Because in companies of that size, it's easy for you to get lost because of just the sheer number of people that you're up against.
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And so I had to learn to take up space uh on my own.
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And another lesson that I learned is that one of the greatest gifts that you can give is to pull people up from behind you.
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So I had phenomenal mentors and sponsors who were willing to put their themselves and their necks on the line for me.
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And in order for me to continue to move forward in my career, but also feel good about how I was progressing in my career, I had to open the doors for other people and be willing to put my neck out the same way that others were willing to do that for me.
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Um both both in mentorship and just advocacy when I saw something was wrong.
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I I was willing to speak up all about that.
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And I'm sorry, go ahead.
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Those really are such direct comparisons to the entrepreneurial world of it's competitive, you better get after it.
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Yes.
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And it's so important to have that mentorship.
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And then I I know so many of us after we start progressing and make it down the road a little bit, immediately we'll turn around and be like, you should do this.
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I don't know if that's us uh inviting other people into the chaos of entrepreneurship and making ourselves feel better, but it it really comes from we want to help people.
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Um, and those are two really, really good points.
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Yeah.
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But please continue.
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No, I I mean, and and when I think about from an entrepreneurial perspective, you know, having that community is helpful because entrepreneurship is such a lonely road.
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You are just trying to get it out the mud, um, unless you were kind of gifted a business that was already thriving.
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But for the majority of us, we're we are digging it out on our own.
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And so having mentors, having a community of folks who you can bounce ideas off of or who can just help one another.
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I mean, that is just invaluable on a very kind of lonely but rewarding uh entrepreneurial experience.
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I imagine the uh finance side of it, because that's directly what you were doing, that probably had tremendous uh or was a tremendous asset early on in business of being able to set things up right.
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And I know that's a weakness as a lot of people start.
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And you'll see that kind of knowledge of finance grow as people grow their companies, but um it had to be an advantage early on.
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Yeah, so but because it's the fundamental difference between like revenue and profit.
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Like because I, you know, I I you know I lived in income statements and other things like that.
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It's you know, because people are celebrating, oh, I made$100,000.
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It's like you didn't make it, you generated$100,000 in revenue.
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That's a very different thing than making$100,000.
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And so what I had to learn early on is that, you know, the revenue, it's it's how do I keep my costs low so that I can take as much of that revenue down to the bottom line.
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So what can I do at a low cost or free uh way to make sure that my operating costs, you know, and then for people who are producing products, you know, your cost of goods, how do you keep that as low as possible?
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Um, and then making sure that um this is kind of indirectly related, but making sure that you're trying to do things right the first time because it's really expensive to do things over.
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And so you had the tendency to try to take the cheapest route, but it's like, okay, now you have to do two or three iterations of this because you had to keep paying because it wasn't good the first time.
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You mean like those online bookkeeping services that no one has used, not not in this office, uh, that then they had to rebuild everything from scratch and QuickBooks, kind of like that?
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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I've been down that road.
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You know, and and and so and but because you have the tendency, I have to save every dollar.
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And it's like, yes, but you're gonna be wasting money later.
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And so understanding finance was really helpful to understand where do I want to put my resources and then understanding what my numbers were telling me in terms of what's working and what's not working.
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And if my costs are too high, uh, and and what am I taking home uh at all?
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Right.
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So those that that was invaluable information, I got, I gotta say.
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Well, that that also is going back to you staying with your full-time position during the day, that it eliminates so much of that pain early on where you're not bringing home enough.
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Like and and you start that realization of, wow, it takes money to run a business.
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Uh and so ha having that buffer is very, very valuable.
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Um But I I also think probably one of the huge advantages of being in that environment is the leadership, just the the systems they have for elevating people through the different layers of management all the way up to the executive side.
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Um but that seems like it has become a passion of yours on the leadership front.
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So it is that where it started?
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You know, um I I've I've gotta say one of the things like seeing leadership in in an organization of that size, it gets you into the mind of how leaders think when there's a lot of things on the line and and the gravity of a bad decision versus a good decision, right?
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Because if you feel like, okay, I just hung up my shingle for my t-shirt printing business, maybe every decision isn't going to cost you a gazillion dollars right out the gate.
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But it's like it's that mindset of what impact does my decision have on the people around me and and to this organization.
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And so seeing that live, and like I said, seeing the gravity of when bad decisions were made, and it's not just on the services or the external customers, on the staff.
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Seeing that, I just realized, you know, that there is a way to fix this, right?
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Especially since I've had career coaching clients who were hopping from job to job, and they talked about, I love my job, but I hate my boss or I hate the management.
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So seeing those two things from clients and then in my own day job, it's like, okay, there's a through line here.
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And if I could tap into helping leaders, we could really transform how organizations work, which will then trickle down to the bottom line, but also create better uh work environments.
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Well, that that brings us to what made you actually pull the trigger on going into it for yourself?
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Like what was that um tipping point where you said, all right, I'm all in on my own thing.
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So it's funny.
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Part of it's a leadership thing.
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Uh so in my last role, I was um I was at a pretty senior level uh kind of executive executive level portfolio, about$23 billion in operating expenses.
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And it was a pretty intense role.
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And I realized that okay, I can't do this well and run my business well.
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I have to pick a side because something is going to start to suffer.
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And I had people that I was responsible for.
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It's not just dollars and cents, it was people and their careers.
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And also, you know, I saw, you know, leadership that was let me find the right language, but leadership that wasn't great.
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Undeveloped leadership, undeveloped leadership or underdeveloped leadership and the decisions that they were making that were impacting us and driving work and creating more tension and chaos.
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I said, if I'm trying to run a business, I can operate in that environment.
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And I also can't teach people about leadership if I'm not willing to step out on my own and get away from leadership that is unwilling to change and unwilling to take uh heed of advice or insights or perspective.
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So I had to kind of, you know, walk the walk uh as well as realizing, hey, I can't do both things well.
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And so if I have to make a bet on something, I'm always gonna be my own best bet.
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Absolutely.
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Um the consistency of leadership is I know something that you've talked about.
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Um and I think the irony is leadership constantly needs to change and grow.
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And if somebody's unwilling to change and is stuck because the world is constantly changing, um, it it's very hard to be a good leader.
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So I I fully understand how making that shift and stepping into it and want betting on yourself.
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Like if if you believe in yourself, you should bet on yourself.
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Absolutely.
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No matter what.
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Um but talk to us about what you were building and what it has developed into now.
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Yeah, so so it's so my business has morphed a little bit, and it's for for the entrepreneurs who are listening, the business you start is not the business you end with, right?
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You know, the business I started, I was doing resumes for$75 a pop.
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Uh and I was doing interview coaching sessions for$75, and then I upped it to$100, and I thought I was like doing it back then, right?
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And so, but but over time of working with clients, like I said, I realized a leadership challenge.
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And so that's what I started to build is a business that delivered leadership development solutions.
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So taking something as small as a keynote or a workshop and then being able to expand that into meeting a company's needs.
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So whether it's that they need a full brunt blown leadership development program redesign, if they want a consultant on their leadership kind of culture and what they're cultivating, um, and then also executive coaching.
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So I'm a certified executive coach, and part of the leadership challenge is that they go to these leadership seminars and workshops, but then there's nothing to cement it later, right?
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Because they're not going to any sort of coaching or anything to help them integrate the concepts.
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And so that's why I wanted to make sure that my company offered that kind of full suite so that leaders could get ongoing support beyond just the workshop or keynote.
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Uh, and so now what we're evolving into is um so I've actually written a book, uh, developed my own leadership philosophy uh called Uncomplicated Leadership, and I and I wrote a book about that.
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And it's really trying to help organizations, especially in the age of AI and everything that's going on, making sure they're not losing sight of putting people at the center and making sure that they're getting back to the basics of leading people well.
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So uh so that's what's what's really growing on the horizon now.
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So we started out with resumes at$75 and now significantly more expensive services, but uh but it's really centered around leadership and and and putting people first uh and in the center.
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Yeah, the it's an interesting progression.
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You started with, oh, here's a single one-time thing.
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Oh, let's help you with uh these things that you know it is easy to go in a to an event and forget half of what you learned by the time that the flight makes it home.
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And you know, maybe you took a bathroom break when they tied everything together.
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Like it it's really easy to miss stuff.
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So putting things in more and more um concrete ways that people can go back to.
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And uh it that seems to be a trend.
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Uh, because I I think we're all realizing that it's awesome to get that um immediate boost, get that idea.
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For me, it's probably Instagram scrolling, seeing, oh, let's do this AI thing, uh, which my team isn't always the biggest fan of.
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But uh, you know, we when you install it more as a system and that's your rock of your business, um, to use your last name, uh the effects are compounding, which goes back to the consistency piece, not only in leadership, but being consistent across the business is so, so valuable.
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Um I I guess what inspired the book?
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You know, um when I when I really take a step back and think about, you know, the the things that I heard from clients about why they didn't like their leaders and what the challenges were.
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And then when I think in my own career, the leaders who were like killing it, uh, and those who were who weren't, I realized the disconnects between the two that the ones who weren't great, they weren't doing certain things well, and then these folks over here were doing things well, and now and so I had to uncover well, what are those things?
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And so when I really sat down, and in the book, I actually show you what I wrote verbatim, is that I realized it was just five things that they did really well.
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So clarity, consistency, connection, courage, and celebration.
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Every leader that I have coached or I have worked with who has been phenomenal in leading their teams, it's those five things.
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It's not technical knowledge, it's not, you know, I was in the military, it's not, it's none of that.
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It's just these five things.
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And so when I realized that, I said, I I wish I could get this message out to as many people as possible.
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And yes, I love coaching and keynoting and all the things, but there's gotta be a different way for me to get this to people around the world for them to get it in their hands themselves and not wait to connect with me on LinkedIn or at an event.
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And so that's really what uh inspired the book.
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I actually started a Substack first.
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Uh so you know, and then I I said, hey, how about I actually put this, these ideas all together um and create almost like a field manual that people can can can use.
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That's awesome.
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One of my team members told me I needed to start a Substack this week.
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So that's hilarious for one.
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But this is your sign, message.
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All five of those things are incredible.
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Um, but the one I want to hit on, because I don't think it gets talked about enough, is the courage aspect.
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Um so when it comes to courage in business, like how do you define that?
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What does it look like?
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Man, so so the piece that I think gets under talked about about courage is vulnerability.
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You being willing to say, I don't know, I don't have this, I'm nervous, I'm upset, you know, because for leaders or even as business owners, you you have this urge to keep the facade up, right?
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To show that you're doing the all the things.
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And it's and it's like you're you're performing, but for who?
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And you're missing out on building real connections with people, getting real help you need.
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Uh, and so for me, a big part of courage in in business is the courage to be vulnerable and saying, hey, I don't have all the answers.
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Um and the other thing when it comes to courage is the willingness to stand alone.
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That was one of the biggest things that I saw in corporate were senior people, I mean, top of the food chain, just kind of rolling over to go along with something where I'm like, you know, that's a terrible idea.
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Why on earth would you agree to this?
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But they didn't want to be an outsider.
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They didn't want to be outcast from their little leadership group.
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:25.119
And so, even from a business perspective, it may come a time when you have to show integrity around whether it's a political stance, religious stance, whatever it might be, you may have to stand alone.
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:36.799
And that must that may mean that revenue is on the line or certain customers are on the line, but if you have a conviction, like you have to be willing to stand behind that, even if it means that you stand by yourself.
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:37.680
Yeah.
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:40.480
I I sum that up all the time for our team.
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:44.640
I say it a couple times a week at a minimum of just do the right thing.
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:48.319
And uh it I don't think that is prevalent enough.
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:57.279
But um I I think we tend to get in the way of our own businesses' growth as entrepreneurs.
00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:11.440
And I think that that courage aspect Is hey, you know, have the vulnerability to also say, hey, I'm the problem here, and let your team execute on what they are gonna do better than you can, and just get out of their way.
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:16.559
And that that takes a little bit of vulnerability, a little bit of decreasing the ego.
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:24.720
Um, but I I think that that's a massive difference maker when you recognize, hey, yeah, that I've built this amazing team.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:26.400
Let them do their thing.
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:32.640
Um So the book is not out yet, so this has to be an exciting time.
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:39.039
Um wh when's it come out first and uh wh where are you trying to take it?
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.079
Yeah, so so actually pre-orders are open.
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:45.200
So so so folks can grab their pre-orders.
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:51.680
Uh but the physical delivery is on September 18th, so we're we're a little more than a month out, which is nerve-wracking.
00:22:51.920 --> 00:23:04.079
Um but but what I'm really trying to take it to is something that organizations can internalize, where it's like it's not even dependent on me that I'm whether they license the program or license the materials.
00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:12.880
So because it's uncomplicated enough that you don't need to hire me every single year and pay me a million dollars to come in and do this.
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:14.880
It's like you pay the one-time upfront fee.
00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:17.279
I can train some folks and deliver the materials.
00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:25.599
And then from there, you continue to iterate that within your organization and then obviously reach out to me and my organization as needed.
00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:33.279
Um, so that's the real goal, is because I don't want it to be that people feel like they they can't take this on their own.
00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:46.240
The goal is for you to take this message and make it yours for your company, knowing the parameters, knowing the challenges that you face, and and realizing that you don't have to spend a gazillion dollars to create effective leaders.
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:52.799
So that's really the next goal is how do I uh license it beyond uh the book so that organizations can adopt it on their own.
00:23:53.359 --> 00:24:06.400
Yeah, I I know from our side being in PR, uh partnering with other people is a powerful tool that you know uh as you're going to different communities uh and leveraging those stages.
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:11.519
I'm sure you know this, but uh for the audience, don't be afraid of partnerships, they can do amazing things.
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:29.680
On the implementation side, I think that's so important because you know I I appreciate EOS, we have a similar system, but like when I need a week-long program with a dedicated implementer just to like understand what's going on, like there's gotta be a better way to do it.
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.279
And you know, I think a lot of things are like that.
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:38.559
Um a lot of the coaching programs out there are like will take you through these steps and it's gonna take you through years.
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:48.319
But um when you make it simple, when you keep it so that I think that helps with duplication, which is what you need across the board, especially in leadership.
00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:50.160
I mean, I I'm just now learning this.
00:24:50.240 --> 00:25:04.799
I we're kind of building out our second layer of leadership, and uh it's been a learning process for me, but like having those duplicatable things, the sayings, the uh systems behind it, it it's such a powerful thing.
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:06.240
Uh go ahead.
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:12.240
And no, I was just gonna say that it's about creating a shared language that everyone can use, right?
00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:22.000
Because a lot of the leadership language is super philosophical, and you've got all this science with the with this personality type and this behavioral thing.
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:27.920
And and so it's it's the leaders can get it, but then everyone else in the organization's like, what?
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:32.480
Okay, if you're into that new fad thing, good luck to you, right?
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:40.799
But but you know, something like uncomplicated leadership, we you know, keeping the language simple so that, like you said, it's very much lather, rinse, repeat.
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:49.599
And it doesn't matter what challenge you're facing, whether it's change management, whether it's something else, that you can literally use the same principles over and over and over.
00:25:49.920 --> 00:26:01.279
And and no matter who comes into the job, you can hand it off to that person and they don't feel like, okay, well, now you've got to go off to this fancy thing at Yale for six months in order to be ready to do this.
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:08.000
It's like, how do we get you to be to be ready for leadership as soon as possible with the lowest barrier to entry?
00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:10.240
That's so huge.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:21.680
Um so you got the book coming out, uh, you're you're in your established uh zone of genius helping businesses.
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:28.880
Um what's what's the big uh audacious Harry plan for uh where you take everything?
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:40.799
Man, so so the big audacious plan is really for me to build out kind of like an agency of folks who are doing this work, right?
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:45.839
Where it's it's folks who are trained on the uncomplicated leadership message.
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:54.000
And so it's not okay, you gotta talk to Julia Rock, that they are people all around the globe who are trained on this concept.
00:26:54.160 --> 00:27:06.160
And whether they use it with their coaching clients, whether they use it in their consulting, where it's truly something that organizations have access to, but practicing professionals can use it for themselves.
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:16.559
And honestly, I'm just able to kind of step back and be out of the limelight because you know, after you've been in business a long time, you're just like, I don't want to do everything, someone else do it, right?
00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:25.200
And so that's really my big goal is training a workforce of folks across the globe to use this concept and take it with them.
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:36.240
Um and so, and then my plan is also to have kind of a higher ticket kind of almost like a Tony Robbins type top line package, right?
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:53.599
His hundred thousand, whatever plus, uh is is to have that for the for C-suite executives because the concepts, while they're applicable at all levels of leadership, there are there are specific challenges that C-suite executives face.
00:27:54.079 --> 00:28:05.279
And unless you have seen the level of money that they have to deal with or the number of employees that you have to deal with, it's hard for you to speak their language.
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:20.960
And so that's why I'm really grateful for my uh work at ExxonMobil, is because again, you know,$23 billion is an insane amount of money that many companies don't ever see in their entire, you know, history of business, right?
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:25.440
And so I really want to have something for executives at that level.
00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:37.279
So it's almost like I said, it's the Tony Robbins version of uncomplicated uh leadership for for C-suite executives and then training that global workforce uh so that I can step out and let others uh lead the charge.
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:41.680
Well, it it's a really high-leverage way to make impact too.
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:53.839
Um and for anybody who's been around a little bit, there are different levels, and you find out about the next one as you're approaching wherever you are.
00:28:54.160 --> 00:29:01.359
And you know, there there is different language, there's different concerns, there's different problems to solve, whether it's on the leadership front or the finance front.
00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:18.480
Um and I I think that's why the natural pathway is 40 years of growth for a company, because it just takes that long to develop all those systems um for business and on the individual level as that uh you know founding leader.
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:26.480
Um now getting exposure to it with an established organization definitely speeds that up and gives you exposure to a lot of that really cool stuff.
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:46.640
And I I've seen a little bit of it, but it's still it there's also the side of it where I think as we progress more and more you realize how little you actually know, as opposed to that there's the zone, I don't know, around probably be four million, where it's like, oh I know everything, I figured everything out.
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:48.559
No, you you're just starting.
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:48.960
Yeah.
00:29:49.359 --> 00:30:02.720
Um but uh I guess on on the um team side, how do you have that trickle down?
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:11.279
Like obviously simplifying the system, but what have you seen work for organizations um to make sure that their team is engaged?
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:17.119
Because I I know that's a growing thing, especially with the new generation of just checking out.
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:21.759
Um and it's it's not I don't even think it's because of who they are.
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:24.880
It's just hey, that they expect that higher standard.
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:29.519
And if people aren't gonna provide that, like AI really is gonna take over.
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:34.240
But uh, how do you make sure your organization is taking that through each level?
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:37.200
Yeah, so it's it's simpler than you might think.
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:46.000
Uh so I'm not a fan of like like the team building forced fun, like we don't need to go to Dave and Buster's for the eighth time, right?
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:48.480
We don't need to go to top golf again.
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:54.480
It's it's about having a conversation with the people on your team and understanding what's important to them.
00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:59.839
Oftentimes leaders sit around trying to think about what is what do you think our teams need?
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.839
And they never ask anybody.
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:16.640
And so the the way that you actually build that engagement is by asking, you know, hey, this is what I'm seeing, or here's what I think, but tell me how this feels to you, or what what support do you need from me, or what would be most of value to you?
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:22.240
Because one, people feel like, okay, you see me and you value my input.
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:24.079
So that's already a shift in their mind.
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:26.160
Like, oh, okay, I'm not just a number here.
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:34.480
But two, if you're willing to actually take information and do something with it, it's like, oh, I can actually have an influence or impact on what's happening here.
00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:40.480
That's a reason for me for me to be more engaged because I can actually see where my input goes.
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:49.359
And so that's really the secret sauce or you know, behind building engagement is that communication and asking people directly.
00:31:49.599 --> 00:32:10.559
Don't assume, don't do the pizza party and the ice cream thing for the 40th time, because now it feels like you're just placating people and patting them on the head when they really want you to get out of their way or move an obstacle out of their way or provide them with different levels of resources, but you don't know that because you didn't ask.
00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:12.240
So yeah.
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:24.000
That's so strange to me, just with with my background and the way we were taught initially by our early coaches of building culture is really what it is.
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:27.039
And and part of that culture is the feedback cycle.
00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:30.960
Um and I think people mistake the Dave and Busters in Topgolf.
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:32.799
I love top golf, don't get me wrong.
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:35.039
No, that's not building culture.
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:35.920
Yeah.
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:40.799
Um So how how do you build that culture?
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:45.680
And I know it's a struggle for a lot of people to have those tough conversations.
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:56.319
Um, how do you appro approach those conversations to make sure that you know every single person that you're working with has that feedback cycle?
00:32:56.480 --> 00:32:57.119
Yeah.
00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:03.680
So so I think it's it's important to frame the conversation the correct way, right?
00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:08.960
Because the reason why conversations are so tough is because of a lot of times it's the framing.
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:19.279
So for example, when you're when you're going to have to let somebody go, people make it it's difficult no matter what, but they make it overly difficult because they're framing it around the person.
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:30.240
But if you help them to understand, hey, these are the contributions that you've made, and here's where we are, and here's where the gap, and this has nothing to do with you as an individual, right?
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:34.960
Then you're able to provide that person with context as, okay, so this is not an attack on me.
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:39.680
It's like I've done the best I can, they can see it, but it's not where they are right now.
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:43.359
And even if they're frustrated, but they they know that you're not attacking them.
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:45.440
It's the same thing with any of these conversations.
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:46.880
How are you framing it?
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:53.519
So if you're wondering how do I approach this conversation with someone and saying, hey, like the it's the vulnerability aspect.
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:59.519
I'm coming to you because I need your help, I need your insight, or I need your perspective.
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:07.359
I want to make this experience for you here better than it is currently, but I can't do that without you providing me some feedback.
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:13.039
Because now you disarm the other person because it's like, okay, they don't have to be on the defensive because you're not coming at them.
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.519
It's like, hey, this is a collaborative effort.
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.039
I want you involved.
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:18.880
I want us to partner together.
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:24.800
And so that, like I said, it brings down the defenses and makes a tough conversation a little bit easier.
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:26.079
Absolutely.
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:29.280
Yeah, framing is so, so important.
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:35.840
The I I know another way to kind of pass this down is books.
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:39.119
So I'll start with uh where can people find your book?
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:40.159
It's on pre-order.
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:41.760
Yes, on Amazon.
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:44.559
So Amazon, that makes it easy.
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:54.639
Um, but what what other books would you recommend as people are trying to learn how to be a better leader, trying to learn about having conversations and leading their team?
00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:56.639
Um what what are some of your go-tos?
00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:06.960
Yeah, so I've got I've got a few, but um, one of them is the Seven Trust Languages, is Talk to Me Nice, the Seven Trust Languages by Minda Hartz.
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:09.360
Um it's such a such a great book.
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:18.400
Um I I'm a big Brene Brown fan, so Dare to Lead is is another one of my uh one of my favorites as well.
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:24.719
And this one is a little bit unconventional from a leadership perspective, but I think it it helps.
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:30.400
It's it's um it's a 12-week year by uh by Brian Moran.
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:31.039
So good.
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:31.360
So good.
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:32.320
I love that book.
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:32.639
Yeah.
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:40.159
And yes, it's not a leadership book, but it's helping you reframe goals and and and to keep your team moving forward.
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:48.320
So yes, you can set them for yourself, but if you implement them in business, it's how do you keep your team continuously moving forward to goals, right?
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:50.159
Versus saying we're gonna do this for 12 months.
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:52.400
It's like, okay, well, what are we gonna do by the end of the quarter?
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:53.599
How do we revisit it?
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:56.480
So those are so those are three of my faves.
00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:57.599
That's awesome.
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:01.679
Uh we shifted a 12-week year, probably going on two years ago.
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:03.440
And isn't it awesome?
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:04.719
It's so amazing.
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:10.079
And when I bring up the concept of some people like at events, it they're like, what is it?
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:12.719
And I'm like, just think of it in quarters.
00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:14.400
That's quite a kind of like quarters.
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:16.800
That's what every Fortune 500 company does.
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:17.599
Right.
00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:19.760
But it it blows people's minds.
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:27.679
And just being able to shrink the time horizon, I I forget the what the law is called, but like the project will take as much time as you give it.
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:28.000
Right.
00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:33.280
And when you shrink that down, it becomes a prioritization exercise.
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:46.559
But it also keeps the team in momentum so much better because you're not on this uh epic mile run as opposed to like a marathon.
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:49.519
Um it it's been a huge help to us.
00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:53.280
So I love that you said that, and I'm gonna re replay that over and over for my team.
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:56.400
Like, hey, uh just just in case you were wondering.
00:36:56.559 --> 00:37:03.599
And and and here's the other thing that that allows you to do as well is it allows you to give feedback more quickly.
00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:08.960
So a lot of times employees are waiting an entire year for their performance review.
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:13.440
But what if you were giving that kind of feedback every quarter, right?
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:29.840
So that when the annual performance cycle comes for your overall company, it's like, hey, we've already been able to see the challenges, we've already been able to change course, we've already been able to move forward so that you're not having to hit this person with 12 months worth of, hey, you suck, right?
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:31.840
It's like you know what I mean?
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:34.800
It's like we've already been working on it, you know?
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:46.320
Yeah, I feel like we we had an intern start literally today, and uh I was going through like 12-week uh year very briefly, and like, yeah, we get the opportunity to give you feedback way more often.
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:51.440
And uh I feel like we're probably gonna spoil him because he's never had a yearly review.
00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:54.639
Um but it it's a good thing.
00:37:54.960 --> 00:38:09.840
Um so if if you're looking at um the leaders, yes, the books are important, but what advice would you give them to um start down that journey?
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:15.679
So the first thing I would say is give yourself some grace, right?
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:16.960
Give yourself some grace.
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:20.639
You're not going to get it right uh right away.
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:28.480
And so give yourself some grace to unlearn the things that you've been doing and then learn the new things that you need.
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:34.159
Um, and that leadership is not a destination, uh, it's a it's a journey, right?
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:38.559
So, so there's not gonna be a time where you're like, hey, I'm an amazing leader.
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:39.599
I'm here, right?
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:42.320
Like it's it's it's a it's an iterative journey.
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:51.119
And the best piece of advice that I got in my entire career was that if you are not making mistakes, you're not learning anything.
00:38:51.599 --> 00:39:00.159
And that freed me up from the perfectionism kind of engine that causes leaders to be overly performative.
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:03.679
They don't want to show any chinks in the armor, all that kind of stuff.
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:10.159
You're able to cast that aside when you accept that, hey, making mistakes, it's not ideal, but it's okay.
00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:17.920
And it's important for you to deal with those mistakes so that you can grow and also model that behavior for the people coming behind you.
00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:20.960
So that's definitely another clip that's getting played for the team.
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:29.360
I'm not sure I've heard it put that way of you know, making the mistake is part making the mistake is part of the process.
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.400
But that's a beautiful frame on it.
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:42.079
Um But uh Julia, as we're approaching the end, what is something that you really enjoy talking about that you rarely get the chance to?
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:44.000
Oh man.
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:47.440
It doesn't have to be like business related, right?
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:48.320
Anything.
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:50.239
This is the wide open question.
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:54.320
So I don't get the chance to talk about how much I love baking.
00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:55.199
Whoa.
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:55.920
All right.
00:39:56.159 --> 00:40:01.440
I don't think we've had this one before, but I I I went down the sourdough path a couple years ago.
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:02.800
So Yes.
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:05.280
So I'm learning to make sourdough.
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:14.320
Uh and so, and the thing is for me, um, it ties into the reset for for me as a as a business owner and as a as a leader, right?
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:16.719
You're go, go, go, grind, grind, grind.
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:19.440
And it's like, where is what what's your reprieve, right?
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:23.280
And people say, oh, well, I take a, you know, I take a spa day every six months.
00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:27.599
And it's like, well, that means you're building up so much stress in the meantime.
00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:31.679
So that that you know, that one spa day is not going to help release you.
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:41.840
And so for me, me baking on a weekly basis, I bake sandwich bread, I make pound cake for friends, but it allows me to unwind and just have me time.
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:45.920
And so even if I mess something up, I'm like, oh, well, this recipe didn't come out.
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:50.320
It's just fun for me to go back and try again because there's no stress attached to it.
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:53.679
So yeah, I don't get a chance to talk about my baking at all.
00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:57.440
No, it that that's probably like book number five.
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:05.519
Like how I'm trying to think of something catchy, like bake like a rock or something like that.
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:07.519
That'd be awesome.
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:09.760
There's some there's something in there.
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:13.440
Uh but um where can people go find out more?
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:15.599
We know the book's coming out on Amazon.
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:19.920
Uh, but where can people connect or uh maybe see about working with you?
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:21.039
Absolutely.
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:24.880
So so my website is is rockcareer.com.
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:30.000
So if you're in interested in executive coaching services or anything like that, we've got a contact form there.
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:33.599
And then my email is also on the site, hello at rockcareer.com.
00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:42.320
Um, if you're looking for a speaker, uh you can go to thejuliarock.com uh because that's where my speaker reel is and and some of my keynote uh information.
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:44.639
And then I'm a LinkedIn gal.
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:51.360
So the fastest way to get in touch with me is to send me a connection request or a DM on LinkedIn.
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:53.119
That's my favorite platform.
00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:58.960
So Julia Rock, I'm the only top voice uh Julia Rock on the platform.
00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:01.440
So it'll be easy to be easy to find me.
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:02.159
Very cool.
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:06.000
I just out of curiosity, what are your kind of speaking topics?
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:16.480
Yeah, so so um so leadership and obviously the uncomplicated leadership message, but also burnout prevention and recovery for for leaders and employees.
00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:31.199
So I talk about strategies uh around that, and then I talk about employee engagement um and and general and kind of the generational myth, because there's always this conversation of like, oh, Gen Z hates boomers and vice versa.
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:46.480
And what I have seen between coaching and my own lived experience is that a lot of that generational stuff is a myth because at its core, we're still people who want the same things, but we're at different stages of life, and so it sounds like there's some sort of dissonance when there really isn't.
00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:50.639
But if we're willing to listen, we'd be able to find the common ground a lot more quickly.
00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:52.559
Yeah, I I agree with you.
00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:56.000
I wasn't when I made my comment earlier, I wasn't trying to say it.
00:42:56.079 --> 00:43:06.639
I think it's more the exposure with the new generation where they've grown up on social and they've seen way more than we probably saw as kids.
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:11.440
Uh yeah, it's so true.
00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:20.239
But I think the entire like how to build a team, how to keep a team happy, how to retain a team, how to progress them, that's probably a whole nother podcast.
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:21.599
So we'll leave that for another day.
00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:22.480
Thank you.
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:24.320
Thank you so much, Julia.
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:25.440
It's been a pleasure.
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:33.199
And for all of you guys listening at home, that's another overpressure episode in the books, and we will see you guys again soon.
00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:34.159
Thank you.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.679
It's it's about having a conversation with the people on your team and understanding what's important to them.
00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:11.039
Oftentimes leaders sit around trying to think about what is what do you think our teams need?
00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:13.039
And they never ask anybody.
00:00:13.279 --> 00:00:18.399
And so the the way that you actually build that engagement is by asking.
00:00:18.559 --> 00:00:22.800
People feel like, okay, you see me and you value my input.
00:00:23.039 --> 00:00:24.640
So that's already a shift in their mind.
00:00:24.719 --> 00:00:26.800
Like, oh, okay, I'm not just a number here.
00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:35.039
But two, if you're willing to actually take information and do something with it, it's like, oh, I can actually have an influence or impact on what's happening here.
00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:40.880
Don't assume, don't do the pizza party and the ice cream thing for the 40th time.
00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:54.320
Overpressure refers to the sudden increase in pressure above the surroundings caused by the wave generated when something explodes.
00:00:54.479 --> 00:01:06.799
It propagates outward from the origin, capable of causing impact, momentum, or disruption, depending on its intensity and distance, is a critical factor in assessing the effects of a mission.
00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:16.159
Welcome to the Overpressure Podcast, where we dive into the explosive world of business for entrepreneurs who are vets or veteran entrepreneurs.
00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:19.439
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Overpressure Podcast.
00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:34.879
We have an amazing guest today who has had, I want to say, a couple different careers at this point, and uh has joined us from Las Vegas, uh, where she's been for a little bit.
00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:37.760
And uh Julia, how are you doing today?
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Man, I am doing well, Austin.
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Thank you so much for having me uh on the show today.
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Yeah, absolutely.
00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:52.560
Um you have been running your own thing for several years now, but let's go back kind of to the beginning.
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How did you um I I gotta say it's probably a conscious decision.
00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:05.439
You went um, I I'm assuming Fortune 500 for both of them um out of school.
00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:08.080
What what kind of led you on that pathway?
00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:18.719
Uh so in terms of of of entrepreneurship, because I, you know, when I was in college, I started doing the work that I do now on a much smaller scale.
00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:23.199
So I was doing it for free for friends, family, classmates.
00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:31.840
And so it was just kind of a hobby, even when I started my career in the Fortune 500, because I was in financial services as well as energy.
00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:35.120
Those were the two uh sectors I worked in mainly.
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And so it wasn't until I started my second career in energy where uh one of my clients, which was a friend of mine, was like, hey, you should probably start charging for this.
00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:58.719
I mean, it's cool to get free help, I'm grateful, but you have a knack for this, and so you may want to consider starting your own thing and actually charging people for the services you provide.
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I had never really thought about it at all.
00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:03.199
I'm just like, you know, I just want to help people.
00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:08.479
But then I was like, wait a minute, that might be not that bad of an idea.
00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:12.240
And so that's actually how I got started.
00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:21.199
And the other thing was, you know, I was in recruiting or helping to recruit uh talent to my uh energy company.
00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:24.879
I would go to some of the career fairs and represent our finance function.
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And I noticed that the performance, especially for for folks of color, a lot of times they would come to my booth.
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I they they weren't as polished as I as they could be.
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And I was like, okay, I know that they it's not as I know it's this, they have the skills, they have the background, what's missing here?
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And I'm like, okay, I have the skill set that can help them.
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So how about I actually use my business to do that?
00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:58.560
So between kind of the prompting of my friend and then what I saw kind of in real life at my job, that's what really said, okay, let me lean into actually going on this path.
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Uh, but I didn't quit my day job.
00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:05.360
Um, you know, I continued to build alongside my day job for a long time.
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Uh I'm not one of those just leap people.
00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:11.439
It's like, no, stabilize, yeah, get your money.
00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:17.920
You're you're saying you're in uh finance and you're not the absolute risk taker.
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I like that's so strange.
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Uh-hunk, right?
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Now that that's awesome.
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And it we see people jump into it, but that really is the better pathway, especially um just though being in those positions.
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I'm sure you had so many connections.
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And I'm totally fine saying the name of the company, but I I'll let you start it.
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Um very impressive company, very impressive um progression through that company.
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Um but I'm sure what are some lessons learned that you've been able to apply from you know the Fortune 500 world to now running your own business?
00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:57.360
Yeah.
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So so yeah, so so the two companies I work for, JP Morgan Chase and then Exxon Mobil, uh, and so biggest companies in the world, biggest bank, biggest oil and gas, you know, so so big players.
00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:17.360
Uh so some of the greatest lessons that I've learned is that um you've got to take up space on your own.
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Like opportunities are not just going to come to you.
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So if you want uh that next role, that promotion, that opportunity, that connection, you've got to get after it.
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Because in companies of that size, it's easy for you to get lost because of just the sheer number of people that you're up against.
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And so I had to learn to take up space uh on my own.
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And another lesson that I learned is that one of the greatest gifts that you can give is to pull people up from behind you.
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So I had phenomenal mentors and sponsors who were willing to put their themselves and their necks on the line for me.
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And in order for me to continue to move forward in my career, but also feel good about how I was progressing in my career, I had to open the doors for other people and be willing to put my neck out the same way that others were willing to do that for me.
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Um both both in mentorship and just advocacy when I saw something was wrong.
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I I was willing to speak up all about that.
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And I'm sorry, go ahead.
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Those really are such direct comparisons to the entrepreneurial world of it's competitive, you better get after it.
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Yes.
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And it's so important to have that mentorship.
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And then I I know so many of us after we start progressing and make it down the road a little bit, immediately we'll turn around and be like, you should do this.
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I don't know if that's us uh inviting other people into the chaos of entrepreneurship and making ourselves feel better, but it it really comes from we want to help people.
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Um, and those are two really, really good points.
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Yeah.
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But please continue.
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No, I I mean, and and when I think about from an entrepreneurial perspective, you know, having that community is helpful because entrepreneurship is such a lonely road.
00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:18.319
You are just trying to get it out the mud, um, unless you were kind of gifted a business that was already thriving.
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But for the majority of us, we're we are digging it out on our own.
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And so having mentors, having a community of folks who you can bounce ideas off of or who can just help one another.
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I mean, that is just invaluable on a very kind of lonely but rewarding uh entrepreneurial experience.
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I imagine the uh finance side of it, because that's directly what you were doing, that probably had tremendous uh or was a tremendous asset early on in business of being able to set things up right.
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And I know that's a weakness as a lot of people start.
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And you'll see that kind of knowledge of finance grow as people grow their companies, but um it had to be an advantage early on.
00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:06.319
Yeah, so but because it's the fundamental difference between like revenue and profit.
00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:10.959
Like because I, you know, I I you know I lived in income statements and other things like that.
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It's you know, because people are celebrating, oh, I made$100,000.
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It's like you didn't make it, you generated$100,000 in revenue.
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That's a very different thing than making$100,000.
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And so what I had to learn early on is that, you know, the revenue, it's it's how do I keep my costs low so that I can take as much of that revenue down to the bottom line.
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So what can I do at a low cost or free uh way to make sure that my operating costs, you know, and then for people who are producing products, you know, your cost of goods, how do you keep that as low as possible?
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Um, and then making sure that um this is kind of indirectly related, but making sure that you're trying to do things right the first time because it's really expensive to do things over.
00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:10.720
And so you had the tendency to try to take the cheapest route, but it's like, okay, now you have to do two or three iterations of this because you had to keep paying because it wasn't good the first time.
00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:21.440
You mean like those online bookkeeping services that no one has used, not not in this office, uh, that then they had to rebuild everything from scratch and QuickBooks, kind of like that?
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Yes.
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Yes.
00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:23.360
Okay.
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I've been down that road.
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You know, and and and so and but because you have the tendency, I have to save every dollar.
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And it's like, yes, but you're gonna be wasting money later.
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And so understanding finance was really helpful to understand where do I want to put my resources and then understanding what my numbers were telling me in terms of what's working and what's not working.
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And if my costs are too high, uh, and and what am I taking home uh at all?
00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:52.639
Right.
00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:56.799
So those that that was invaluable information, I got, I gotta say.
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Well, that that also is going back to you staying with your full-time position during the day, that it eliminates so much of that pain early on where you're not bringing home enough.
00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:14.399
Like and and you start that realization of, wow, it takes money to run a business.
00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:19.600
Uh and so ha having that buffer is very, very valuable.
00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:34.399
Um But I I also think probably one of the huge advantages of being in that environment is the leadership, just the the systems they have for elevating people through the different layers of management all the way up to the executive side.
00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:41.200
Um but that seems like it has become a passion of yours on the leadership front.
00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:44.320
So it is that where it started?
00:10:45.120 --> 00:11:06.960
You know, um I I've I've gotta say one of the things like seeing leadership in in an organization of that size, it gets you into the mind of how leaders think when there's a lot of things on the line and and the gravity of a bad decision versus a good decision, right?
00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:16.639
Because if you feel like, okay, I just hung up my shingle for my t-shirt printing business, maybe every decision isn't going to cost you a gazillion dollars right out the gate.
00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:26.159
But it's like it's that mindset of what impact does my decision have on the people around me and and to this organization.
00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:37.759
And so seeing that live, and like I said, seeing the gravity of when bad decisions were made, and it's not just on the services or the external customers, on the staff.
00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:43.679
Seeing that, I just realized, you know, that there is a way to fix this, right?
00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:52.480
Especially since I've had career coaching clients who were hopping from job to job, and they talked about, I love my job, but I hate my boss or I hate the management.
00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:59.120
So seeing those two things from clients and then in my own day job, it's like, okay, there's a through line here.
00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:11.679
And if I could tap into helping leaders, we could really transform how organizations work, which will then trickle down to the bottom line, but also create better uh work environments.
00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:21.519
Well, that that brings us to what made you actually pull the trigger on going into it for yourself?
00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:26.720
Like what was that um tipping point where you said, all right, I'm all in on my own thing.
00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:28.799
So it's funny.
00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:30.879
Part of it's a leadership thing.
00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:41.679
Uh so in my last role, I was um I was at a pretty senior level uh kind of executive executive level portfolio, about$23 billion in operating expenses.
00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:45.279
And it was a pretty intense role.
00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:52.799
And I realized that okay, I can't do this well and run my business well.
00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:56.960
I have to pick a side because something is going to start to suffer.
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And I had people that I was responsible for.
00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:02.799
It's not just dollars and cents, it was people and their careers.
00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:14.159
And also, you know, I saw, you know, leadership that was let me find the right language, but leadership that wasn't great.
00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:27.039
Undeveloped leadership, undeveloped leadership or underdeveloped leadership and the decisions that they were making that were impacting us and driving work and creating more tension and chaos.
00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:32.320
I said, if I'm trying to run a business, I can operate in that environment.
00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:47.919
And I also can't teach people about leadership if I'm not willing to step out on my own and get away from leadership that is unwilling to change and unwilling to take uh heed of advice or insights or perspective.
00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:55.360
So I had to kind of, you know, walk the walk uh as well as realizing, hey, I can't do both things well.
00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:59.679
And so if I have to make a bet on something, I'm always gonna be my own best bet.
00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:01.759
Absolutely.
00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:07.679
Um the consistency of leadership is I know something that you've talked about.
00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:15.360
Um and I think the irony is leadership constantly needs to change and grow.
00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:23.200
And if somebody's unwilling to change and is stuck because the world is constantly changing, um, it it's very hard to be a good leader.
00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:31.200
So I I fully understand how making that shift and stepping into it and want betting on yourself.
00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:34.000
Like if if you believe in yourself, you should bet on yourself.
00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:34.399
Absolutely.
00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:35.440
No matter what.
00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:43.039
Um but talk to us about what you were building and what it has developed into now.
00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:52.240
Yeah, so so it's so my business has morphed a little bit, and it's for for the entrepreneurs who are listening, the business you start is not the business you end with, right?
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:57.120
You know, the business I started, I was doing resumes for$75 a pop.
00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:06.399
Uh and I was doing interview coaching sessions for$75, and then I upped it to$100, and I thought I was like doing it back then, right?
00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:12.639
And so, but but over time of working with clients, like I said, I realized a leadership challenge.
00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:18.639
And so that's what I started to build is a business that delivered leadership development solutions.
00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:26.639
So taking something as small as a keynote or a workshop and then being able to expand that into meeting a company's needs.
00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:38.240
So whether it's that they need a full brunt blown leadership development program redesign, if they want a consultant on their leadership kind of culture and what they're cultivating, um, and then also executive coaching.
00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:49.039
So I'm a certified executive coach, and part of the leadership challenge is that they go to these leadership seminars and workshops, but then there's nothing to cement it later, right?
00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:53.039
Because they're not going to any sort of coaching or anything to help them integrate the concepts.
00:15:53.200 --> 00:16:02.720
And so that's why I wanted to make sure that my company offered that kind of full suite so that leaders could get ongoing support beyond just the workshop or keynote.
00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:13.759
Uh, and so now what we're evolving into is um so I've actually written a book, uh, developed my own leadership philosophy uh called Uncomplicated Leadership, and I and I wrote a book about that.
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:27.679
And it's really trying to help organizations, especially in the age of AI and everything that's going on, making sure they're not losing sight of putting people at the center and making sure that they're getting back to the basics of leading people well.
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:30.960
So uh so that's what's what's really growing on the horizon now.
00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:43.200
So we started out with resumes at$75 and now significantly more expensive services, but uh but it's really centered around leadership and and and putting people first uh and in the center.
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:45.519
Yeah, the it's an interesting progression.
00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:49.120
You started with, oh, here's a single one-time thing.
00:16:49.360 --> 00:17:00.159
Oh, let's help you with uh these things that you know it is easy to go in a to an event and forget half of what you learned by the time that the flight makes it home.
00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:04.160
And you know, maybe you took a bathroom break when they tied everything together.
00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:06.000
Like it it's really easy to miss stuff.
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:11.359
So putting things in more and more um concrete ways that people can go back to.
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.880
And uh it that seems to be a trend.
00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:23.440
Uh, because I I think we're all realizing that it's awesome to get that um immediate boost, get that idea.
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:31.279
For me, it's probably Instagram scrolling, seeing, oh, let's do this AI thing, uh, which my team isn't always the biggest fan of.
00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:51.680
But uh, you know, we when you install it more as a system and that's your rock of your business, um, to use your last name, uh the effects are compounding, which goes back to the consistency piece, not only in leadership, but being consistent across the business is so, so valuable.
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:54.559
Um I I guess what inspired the book?
00:17:55.440 --> 00:18:08.400
You know, um when I when I really take a step back and think about, you know, the the things that I heard from clients about why they didn't like their leaders and what the challenges were.
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:27.039
And then when I think in my own career, the leaders who were like killing it, uh, and those who were who weren't, I realized the disconnects between the two that the ones who weren't great, they weren't doing certain things well, and then these folks over here were doing things well, and now and so I had to uncover well, what are those things?
00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:36.079
And so when I really sat down, and in the book, I actually show you what I wrote verbatim, is that I realized it was just five things that they did really well.
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:40.880
So clarity, consistency, connection, courage, and celebration.
00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:48.079
Every leader that I have coached or I have worked with who has been phenomenal in leading their teams, it's those five things.
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:52.799
It's not technical knowledge, it's not, you know, I was in the military, it's not, it's none of that.
00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:54.880
It's just these five things.
00:18:55.200 --> 00:19:04.160
And so when I realized that, I said, I I wish I could get this message out to as many people as possible.
00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:18.480
And yes, I love coaching and keynoting and all the things, but there's gotta be a different way for me to get this to people around the world for them to get it in their hands themselves and not wait to connect with me on LinkedIn or at an event.
00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:20.799
And so that's really what uh inspired the book.
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:22.799
I actually started a Substack first.
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:35.200
Uh so you know, and then I I said, hey, how about I actually put this, these ideas all together um and create almost like a field manual that people can can can use.
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:36.559
That's awesome.
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:39.200
One of my team members told me I needed to start a Substack this week.
00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:40.480
So that's hilarious for one.
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:42.720
But this is your sign, message.
00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:46.480
All five of those things are incredible.
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:51.279
Um, but the one I want to hit on, because I don't think it gets talked about enough, is the courage aspect.
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:58.480
Um so when it comes to courage in business, like how do you define that?
00:19:58.640 --> 00:19:59.839
What does it look like?
00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:08.160
Man, so so the piece that I think gets under talked about about courage is vulnerability.
00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:23.359
You being willing to say, I don't know, I don't have this, I'm nervous, I'm upset, you know, because for leaders or even as business owners, you you have this urge to keep the facade up, right?
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:25.680
To show that you're doing the all the things.
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.279
And it's and it's like you're you're performing, but for who?
00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:35.440
And you're missing out on building real connections with people, getting real help you need.
00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:43.839
Uh, and so for me, a big part of courage in in business is the courage to be vulnerable and saying, hey, I don't have all the answers.
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:50.079
Um and the other thing when it comes to courage is the willingness to stand alone.
00:20:50.559 --> 00:21:03.839
That was one of the biggest things that I saw in corporate were senior people, I mean, top of the food chain, just kind of rolling over to go along with something where I'm like, you know, that's a terrible idea.
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.319
Why on earth would you agree to this?
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:09.200
But they didn't want to be an outsider.
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:12.240
They didn't want to be outcast from their little leadership group.
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:25.119
And so, even from a business perspective, it may come a time when you have to show integrity around whether it's a political stance, religious stance, whatever it might be, you may have to stand alone.
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:36.799
And that must that may mean that revenue is on the line or certain customers are on the line, but if you have a conviction, like you have to be willing to stand behind that, even if it means that you stand by yourself.
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:37.680
Yeah.
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:40.480
I I sum that up all the time for our team.
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:44.640
I say it a couple times a week at a minimum of just do the right thing.
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:48.319
And uh it I don't think that is prevalent enough.
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:57.279
But um I I think we tend to get in the way of our own businesses' growth as entrepreneurs.
00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:11.440
And I think that that courage aspect Is hey, you know, have the vulnerability to also say, hey, I'm the problem here, and let your team execute on what they are gonna do better than you can, and just get out of their way.
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:16.559
And that that takes a little bit of vulnerability, a little bit of decreasing the ego.
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:24.720
Um, but I I think that that's a massive difference maker when you recognize, hey, yeah, that I've built this amazing team.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:26.400
Let them do their thing.
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:32.640
Um So the book is not out yet, so this has to be an exciting time.
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:39.039
Um wh when's it come out first and uh wh where are you trying to take it?
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.079
Yeah, so so actually pre-orders are open.
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:45.200
So so so folks can grab their pre-orders.
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:51.680
Uh but the physical delivery is on September 18th, so we're we're a little more than a month out, which is nerve-wracking.
00:22:51.920 --> 00:23:04.079
Um but but what I'm really trying to take it to is something that organizations can internalize, where it's like it's not even dependent on me that I'm whether they license the program or license the materials.
00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:12.880
So because it's uncomplicated enough that you don't need to hire me every single year and pay me a million dollars to come in and do this.
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:14.880
It's like you pay the one-time upfront fee.
00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:17.279
I can train some folks and deliver the materials.
00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:25.599
And then from there, you continue to iterate that within your organization and then obviously reach out to me and my organization as needed.
00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:33.279
Um, so that's the real goal, is because I don't want it to be that people feel like they they can't take this on their own.
00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:46.240
The goal is for you to take this message and make it yours for your company, knowing the parameters, knowing the challenges that you face, and and realizing that you don't have to spend a gazillion dollars to create effective leaders.
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:52.799
So that's really the next goal is how do I uh license it beyond uh the book so that organizations can adopt it on their own.
00:23:53.359 --> 00:24:06.400
Yeah, I I know from our side being in PR, uh partnering with other people is a powerful tool that you know uh as you're going to different communities uh and leveraging those stages.
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:11.519
I'm sure you know this, but uh for the audience, don't be afraid of partnerships, they can do amazing things.
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:29.680
On the implementation side, I think that's so important because you know I I appreciate EOS, we have a similar system, but like when I need a week-long program with a dedicated implementer just to like understand what's going on, like there's gotta be a better way to do it.
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.279
And you know, I think a lot of things are like that.
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:38.559
Um a lot of the coaching programs out there are like will take you through these steps and it's gonna take you through years.
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:48.319
But um when you make it simple, when you keep it so that I think that helps with duplication, which is what you need across the board, especially in leadership.
00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:50.160
I mean, I I'm just now learning this.
00:24:50.240 --> 00:25:04.799
I we're kind of building out our second layer of leadership, and uh it's been a learning process for me, but like having those duplicatable things, the sayings, the uh systems behind it, it it's such a powerful thing.
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:06.240
Uh go ahead.
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:12.240
And no, I was just gonna say that it's about creating a shared language that everyone can use, right?
00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:22.000
Because a lot of the leadership language is super philosophical, and you've got all this science with the with this personality type and this behavioral thing.
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:27.920
And and so it's it's the leaders can get it, but then everyone else in the organization's like, what?
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:32.480
Okay, if you're into that new fad thing, good luck to you, right?
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:40.799
But but you know, something like uncomplicated leadership, we you know, keeping the language simple so that, like you said, it's very much lather, rinse, repeat.
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:49.599
And it doesn't matter what challenge you're facing, whether it's change management, whether it's something else, that you can literally use the same principles over and over and over.
00:25:49.920 --> 00:26:01.279
And and no matter who comes into the job, you can hand it off to that person and they don't feel like, okay, well, now you've got to go off to this fancy thing at Yale for six months in order to be ready to do this.
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:08.000
It's like, how do we get you to be to be ready for leadership as soon as possible with the lowest barrier to entry?
00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:10.240
That's so huge.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:21.680
Um so you got the book coming out, uh, you're you're in your established uh zone of genius helping businesses.
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:28.880
Um what's what's the big uh audacious Harry plan for uh where you take everything?
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:40.799
Man, so so the big audacious plan is really for me to build out kind of like an agency of folks who are doing this work, right?
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:45.839
Where it's it's folks who are trained on the uncomplicated leadership message.
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:54.000
And so it's not okay, you gotta talk to Julia Rock, that they are people all around the globe who are trained on this concept.
00:26:54.160 --> 00:27:06.160
And whether they use it with their coaching clients, whether they use it in their consulting, where it's truly something that organizations have access to, but practicing professionals can use it for themselves.
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:16.559
And honestly, I'm just able to kind of step back and be out of the limelight because you know, after you've been in business a long time, you're just like, I don't want to do everything, someone else do it, right?
00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:25.200
And so that's really my big goal is training a workforce of folks across the globe to use this concept and take it with them.
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:36.240
Um and so, and then my plan is also to have kind of a higher ticket kind of almost like a Tony Robbins type top line package, right?
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:53.599
His hundred thousand, whatever plus, uh is is to have that for the for C-suite executives because the concepts, while they're applicable at all levels of leadership, there are there are specific challenges that C-suite executives face.
00:27:54.079 --> 00:28:05.279
And unless you have seen the level of money that they have to deal with or the number of employees that you have to deal with, it's hard for you to speak their language.
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:20.960
And so that's why I'm really grateful for my uh work at ExxonMobil, is because again, you know,$23 billion is an insane amount of money that many companies don't ever see in their entire, you know, history of business, right?
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:25.440
And so I really want to have something for executives at that level.
00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:37.279
So it's almost like I said, it's the Tony Robbins version of uncomplicated uh leadership for for C-suite executives and then training that global workforce uh so that I can step out and let others uh lead the charge.
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:41.680
Well, it it's a really high-leverage way to make impact too.
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:53.839
Um and for anybody who's been around a little bit, there are different levels, and you find out about the next one as you're approaching wherever you are.
00:28:54.160 --> 00:29:01.359
And you know, there there is different language, there's different concerns, there's different problems to solve, whether it's on the leadership front or the finance front.
00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:18.480
Um and I I think that's why the natural pathway is 40 years of growth for a company, because it just takes that long to develop all those systems um for business and on the individual level as that uh you know founding leader.
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:26.480
Um now getting exposure to it with an established organization definitely speeds that up and gives you exposure to a lot of that really cool stuff.
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:46.640
And I I've seen a little bit of it, but it's still it there's also the side of it where I think as we progress more and more you realize how little you actually know, as opposed to that there's the zone, I don't know, around probably be four million, where it's like, oh I know everything, I figured everything out.
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:48.559
No, you you're just starting.
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:48.960
Yeah.
00:29:49.359 --> 00:30:02.720
Um but uh I guess on on the um team side, how do you have that trickle down?
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:11.279
Like obviously simplifying the system, but what have you seen work for organizations um to make sure that their team is engaged?
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:17.119
Because I I know that's a growing thing, especially with the new generation of just checking out.
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:21.759
Um and it's it's not I don't even think it's because of who they are.
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:24.880
It's just hey, that they expect that higher standard.
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:29.519
And if people aren't gonna provide that, like AI really is gonna take over.
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:34.240
But uh, how do you make sure your organization is taking that through each level?
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:37.200
Yeah, so it's it's simpler than you might think.
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:46.000
Uh so I'm not a fan of like like the team building forced fun, like we don't need to go to Dave and Buster's for the eighth time, right?
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:48.480
We don't need to go to top golf again.
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:54.480
It's it's about having a conversation with the people on your team and understanding what's important to them.
00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:59.839
Oftentimes leaders sit around trying to think about what is what do you think our teams need?
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.839
And they never ask anybody.
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:16.640
And so the the way that you actually build that engagement is by asking, you know, hey, this is what I'm seeing, or here's what I think, but tell me how this feels to you, or what what support do you need from me, or what would be most of value to you?
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:22.240
Because one, people feel like, okay, you see me and you value my input.
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:24.079
So that's already a shift in their mind.
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:26.160
Like, oh, okay, I'm not just a number here.
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:34.480
But two, if you're willing to actually take information and do something with it, it's like, oh, I can actually have an influence or impact on what's happening here.
00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:40.480
That's a reason for me for me to be more engaged because I can actually see where my input goes.
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:49.359
And so that's really the secret sauce or you know, behind building engagement is that communication and asking people directly.
00:31:49.599 --> 00:32:10.559
Don't assume, don't do the pizza party and the ice cream thing for the 40th time, because now it feels like you're just placating people and patting them on the head when they really want you to get out of their way or move an obstacle out of their way or provide them with different levels of resources, but you don't know that because you didn't ask.
00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:12.240
So yeah.
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:24.000
That's so strange to me, just with with my background and the way we were taught initially by our early coaches of building culture is really what it is.
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:27.039
And and part of that culture is the feedback cycle.
00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:30.960
Um and I think people mistake the Dave and Busters in Topgolf.
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:32.799
I love top golf, don't get me wrong.
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:35.039
No, that's not building culture.
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:35.920
Yeah.
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:40.799
Um So how how do you build that culture?
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:45.680
And I know it's a struggle for a lot of people to have those tough conversations.
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:56.319
Um, how do you appro approach those conversations to make sure that you know every single person that you're working with has that feedback cycle?
00:32:56.480 --> 00:32:57.119
Yeah.
00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:03.680
So so I think it's it's important to frame the conversation the correct way, right?
00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:08.960
Because the reason why conversations are so tough is because of a lot of times it's the framing.
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:19.279
So for example, when you're when you're going to have to let somebody go, people make it it's difficult no matter what, but they make it overly difficult because they're framing it around the person.
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:30.240
But if you help them to understand, hey, these are the contributions that you've made, and here's where we are, and here's where the gap, and this has nothing to do with you as an individual, right?
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:34.960
Then you're able to provide that person with context as, okay, so this is not an attack on me.
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:39.680
It's like I've done the best I can, they can see it, but it's not where they are right now.
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:43.359
And even if they're frustrated, but they they know that you're not attacking them.
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:45.440
It's the same thing with any of these conversations.
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:46.880
How are you framing it?
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:53.519
So if you're wondering how do I approach this conversation with someone and saying, hey, like the it's the vulnerability aspect.
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:59.519
I'm coming to you because I need your help, I need your insight, or I need your perspective.
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:07.359
I want to make this experience for you here better than it is currently, but I can't do that without you providing me some feedback.
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:13.039
Because now you disarm the other person because it's like, okay, they don't have to be on the defensive because you're not coming at them.
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.519
It's like, hey, this is a collaborative effort.
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.039
I want you involved.
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:18.880
I want us to partner together.
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:24.800
And so that, like I said, it brings down the defenses and makes a tough conversation a little bit easier.
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:26.079
Absolutely.
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:29.280
Yeah, framing is so, so important.
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:35.840
The I I know another way to kind of pass this down is books.
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:39.119
So I'll start with uh where can people find your book?
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:40.159
It's on pre-order.
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:41.760
Yes, on Amazon.
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:44.559
So Amazon, that makes it easy.
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:54.639
Um, but what what other books would you recommend as people are trying to learn how to be a better leader, trying to learn about having conversations and leading their team?
00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:56.639
Um what what are some of your go-tos?
00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:06.960
Yeah, so I've got I've got a few, but um, one of them is the Seven Trust Languages, is Talk to Me Nice, the Seven Trust Languages by Minda Hartz.
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:09.360
Um it's such a such a great book.
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:18.400
Um I I'm a big Brene Brown fan, so Dare to Lead is is another one of my uh one of my favorites as well.
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:24.719
And this one is a little bit unconventional from a leadership perspective, but I think it it helps.
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:30.400
It's it's um it's a 12-week year by uh by Brian Moran.
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:31.039
So good.
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:31.360
So good.
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:32.320
I love that book.
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:32.639
Yeah.
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:40.159
And yes, it's not a leadership book, but it's helping you reframe goals and and and to keep your team moving forward.
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:48.320
So yes, you can set them for yourself, but if you implement them in business, it's how do you keep your team continuously moving forward to goals, right?
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:50.159
Versus saying we're gonna do this for 12 months.
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:52.400
It's like, okay, well, what are we gonna do by the end of the quarter?
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:53.599
How do we revisit it?
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:56.480
So those are so those are three of my faves.
00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:57.599
That's awesome.
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:01.679
Uh we shifted a 12-week year, probably going on two years ago.
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:03.440
And isn't it awesome?
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:04.719
It's so amazing.
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:10.079
And when I bring up the concept of some people like at events, it they're like, what is it?
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:12.719
And I'm like, just think of it in quarters.
00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:14.400
That's quite a kind of like quarters.
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:16.800
That's what every Fortune 500 company does.
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:17.599
Right.
00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:19.760
But it it blows people's minds.
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:27.679
And just being able to shrink the time horizon, I I forget the what the law is called, but like the project will take as much time as you give it.
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:28.000
Right.
00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:33.280
And when you shrink that down, it becomes a prioritization exercise.
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:46.559
But it also keeps the team in momentum so much better because you're not on this uh epic mile run as opposed to like a marathon.
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:49.519
Um it it's been a huge help to us.
00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:53.280
So I love that you said that, and I'm gonna re replay that over and over for my team.
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:56.400
Like, hey, uh just just in case you were wondering.
00:36:56.559 --> 00:37:03.599
And and and here's the other thing that that allows you to do as well is it allows you to give feedback more quickly.
00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:08.960
So a lot of times employees are waiting an entire year for their performance review.
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:13.440
But what if you were giving that kind of feedback every quarter, right?
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:29.840
So that when the annual performance cycle comes for your overall company, it's like, hey, we've already been able to see the challenges, we've already been able to change course, we've already been able to move forward so that you're not having to hit this person with 12 months worth of, hey, you suck, right?
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:31.840
It's like you know what I mean?
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:34.800
It's like we've already been working on it, you know?
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:46.320
Yeah, I feel like we we had an intern start literally today, and uh I was going through like 12-week uh year very briefly, and like, yeah, we get the opportunity to give you feedback way more often.
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:51.440
And uh I feel like we're probably gonna spoil him because he's never had a yearly review.
00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:54.639
Um but it it's a good thing.
00:37:54.960 --> 00:38:09.840
Um so if if you're looking at um the leaders, yes, the books are important, but what advice would you give them to um start down that journey?
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:15.679
So the first thing I would say is give yourself some grace, right?
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:16.960
Give yourself some grace.
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:20.639
You're not going to get it right uh right away.
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:28.480
And so give yourself some grace to unlearn the things that you've been doing and then learn the new things that you need.
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:34.159
Um, and that leadership is not a destination, uh, it's a it's a journey, right?
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:38.559
So, so there's not gonna be a time where you're like, hey, I'm an amazing leader.
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:39.599
I'm here, right?
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:42.320
Like it's it's it's a it's an iterative journey.
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:51.119
And the best piece of advice that I got in my entire career was that if you are not making mistakes, you're not learning anything.
00:38:51.599 --> 00:39:00.159
And that freed me up from the perfectionism kind of engine that causes leaders to be overly performative.
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:03.679
They don't want to show any chinks in the armor, all that kind of stuff.
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:10.159
You're able to cast that aside when you accept that, hey, making mistakes, it's not ideal, but it's okay.
00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:17.920
And it's important for you to deal with those mistakes so that you can grow and also model that behavior for the people coming behind you.
00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:20.960
So that's definitely another clip that's getting played for the team.
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:29.360
I'm not sure I've heard it put that way of you know, making the mistake is part making the mistake is part of the process.
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.400
But that's a beautiful frame on it.
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:42.079
Um But uh Julia, as we're approaching the end, what is something that you really enjoy talking about that you rarely get the chance to?
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:44.000
Oh man.
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:47.440
It doesn't have to be like business related, right?
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:48.320
Anything.
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:50.239
This is the wide open question.
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:54.320
So I don't get the chance to talk about how much I love baking.
00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:55.199
Whoa.
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:55.920
All right.
00:39:56.159 --> 00:40:01.440
I don't think we've had this one before, but I I I went down the sourdough path a couple years ago.
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:02.800
So Yes.
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:05.280
So I'm learning to make sourdough.
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:14.320
Uh and so, and the thing is for me, um, it ties into the reset for for me as a as a business owner and as a as a leader, right?
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:16.719
You're go, go, go, grind, grind, grind.
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:19.440
And it's like, where is what what's your reprieve, right?
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:23.280
And people say, oh, well, I take a, you know, I take a spa day every six months.
00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:27.599
And it's like, well, that means you're building up so much stress in the meantime.
00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:31.679
So that that you know, that one spa day is not going to help release you.
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:41.840
And so for me, me baking on a weekly basis, I bake sandwich bread, I make pound cake for friends, but it allows me to unwind and just have me time.
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:45.920
And so even if I mess something up, I'm like, oh, well, this recipe didn't come out.
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:50.320
It's just fun for me to go back and try again because there's no stress attached to it.
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:53.679
So yeah, I don't get a chance to talk about my baking at all.
00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:57.440
No, it that that's probably like book number five.
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:05.519
Like how I'm trying to think of something catchy, like bake like a rock or something like that.
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:07.519
That'd be awesome.
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:09.760
There's some there's something in there.
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:13.440
Uh but um where can people go find out more?
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:15.599
We know the book's coming out on Amazon.
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:19.920
Uh, but where can people connect or uh maybe see about working with you?
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:21.039
Absolutely.
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:24.880
So so my website is is rockcareer.com.
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:30.000
So if you're in interested in executive coaching services or anything like that, we've got a contact form there.
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:33.599
And then my email is also on the site, hello at rockcareer.com.
00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:42.320
Um, if you're looking for a speaker, uh you can go to thejuliarock.com uh because that's where my speaker reel is and and some of my keynote uh information.
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:44.639
And then I'm a LinkedIn gal.
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:51.360
So the fastest way to get in touch with me is to send me a connection request or a DM on LinkedIn.
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:53.119
That's my favorite platform.
00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:58.960
So Julia Rock, I'm the only top voice uh Julia Rock on the platform.
00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:01.440
So it'll be easy to be easy to find me.
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:02.159
Very cool.
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:06.000
I just out of curiosity, what are your kind of speaking topics?
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:16.480
Yeah, so so um so leadership and obviously the uncomplicated leadership message, but also burnout prevention and recovery for for leaders and employees.
00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:31.199
So I talk about strategies uh around that, and then I talk about employee engagement um and and general and kind of the generational myth, because there's always this conversation of like, oh, Gen Z hates boomers and vice versa.
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:46.480
And what I have seen between coaching and my own lived experience is that a lot of that generational stuff is a myth because at its core, we're still people who want the same things, but we're at different stages of life, and so it sounds like there's some sort of dissonance when there really isn't.
00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:50.639
But if we're willing to listen, we'd be able to find the common ground a lot more quickly.
00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:52.559
Yeah, I I agree with you.
00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:56.000
I wasn't when I made my comment earlier, I wasn't trying to say it.
00:42:56.079 --> 00:43:06.639
I think it's more the exposure with the new generation where they've grown up on social and they've seen way more than we probably saw as kids.
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:11.440
Uh yeah, it's so true.
00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:20.239
But I think the entire like how to build a team, how to keep a team happy, how to retain a team, how to progress them, that's probably a whole nother podcast.
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:21.599
So we'll leave that for another day.
00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:22.480
Thank you.
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:24.320
Thank you so much, Julia.
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:25.440
It's been a pleasure.
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:33.199
And for all of you guys listening at home, that's another overpressure episode in the books, and we will see you guys again soon.
00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:34.159
Thank you.
