WEBVTT
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You're fine there, guys.
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Welcome to another episode of Optometry Profits Review, and I'm your host, Peter Precht.
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Today we are with Paul and Cassandra of Alternative Eyewear.
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They are both at Silmo.
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And without any further ado, let's roll into your journey and how you ended up where you are today.
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Thank you so much for being here.
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Thank you, Peter.
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Well, my journey is long.
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I mean, I'm almost 40 years in the eyewear business.
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It's uh, you know, it got under my skin as a young person, and I loved it.
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I loved eyewear.
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I knew nothing.
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First of all, I knew absolutely nothing about the spectacle business.
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You know, being a Canadian, I thought everybody got their glasses from the Rack at Eaton.
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So I didn't know about optometry or ophthalmology or you know, what an optician was and what they did specifically.
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And I remember my first day on the job, which was kind of an interesting job.
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Uh I didn't have an interview.
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In fact, I was filling in for a friend who couldn't really make his first day on the job.
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So I was out in the field with my manager with a bag of gazelle and a bag of Marklin in 1985-ish.
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Oh wow.
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Yeah.
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Come a long way.
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Pretty good lines, though.
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Big lines to start with.
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Big lines to start with.
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And the cover of the Toronto Star, the Toronto Sun, I should say, that day was some poor undercover policeman had been killed over a pair of sunglasses.
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I mean, it's a sad, you know, horrible story, but my phone started to ring because everybody wanted gazelles.
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They wanted to see the glasses that people would die over.
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Isn't that crazy?
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And, you know, it was a great journey.
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I had a bag of frames that sold for$50 and a bag of frames that sold for$200.
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And I still did wasn't entirely sure what the difference was, frankly.
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But I loved it.
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I just loved it.
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I love I love the people, I love the intensity, I love the the fashion, I love the I love the the fact that it's an aid.
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Uh I love that I'm I've been there or been around long enough to see it go from being you know a utilitarian product and saw it become a commodity.
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You know, I saw Luxotica buy lens crafters, all those things that it's so many of us that have been around for so long seemed to be.
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We were just talking about your about Silmo and how you had experienced it at that time, and and how it had what it's evolved to and what you've seen recently.
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Um but please the both of you share how how you know Silmo's different today than it was then.
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I mean, I don't have a tremendous I mean there are certainly a lot more skilled people about as it relates to Silmo than I.
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But being a Canadian, we were one of the very first Canadian companies back in a previous life, back in the 90s.
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I had a booth here and was doing some private label of my own designs, and you know, we're trying to sell into any market in every market, specifically the European market.
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And at that time, you know, there was a very symbiont high-end, low-end design focus, brand focus.
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But what I'm seeing today is more a real segmentation where the big chains, the brands have gone off in their direction, and this amazing group of young designers that have emerged, uh, people that I don't know and never heard of, that have like amazing, amazing collections are all around us in our neighborhood.
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You know, we're we've been really fortunate to be we're in a very high-end uh area, and what we do is completely different from what our neighbors are doing, but what I'm seeing from my neighbors is a real inspiration.
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I mean, unbelievable colors, unbelievable choices of materials, unbelievable laminations, shapes that are a tremendous blend of the old and eclectic and the new and eclectic.
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And you know, I never thought I would put that color together, but dang, does it work?
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You know, that kind of thing.
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Crazy.
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For me, you know, we're we're focused, Peter, as you know, we're focused in pediatrics.
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Right.
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You know, we make frames for 36 eye size to 58 eye size for children is our our main our main component.
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And you know, I'm gonna adopt some of those great ideas that I've seen from some of these fabulous French and Italian designers into what our collections will look like in the future because I think kids, kids in general, they're demanding so much more.
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Um, I see it, I feel it.
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I feel like we're so dialed into color, shape, style right now.
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What we sell is so conducive to what the lens market looks like these days.
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You know, there's so much myopia control talk out there.
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And and and I think, you know, Peter, you and I talked about this before.
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I mean, what we make and what we sell is perhaps the most you know conducive product for a myopia control lens.
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I I mean I have one here just to give it an example.
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You know, we have we make our frames out of a unbelievable memory metal or memory metal, memory plastic.
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This plastic has perfect memory, it does not shrink, it does not stretch, the lenses will never breach, they stay, they stay put.
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When it's weird, when I read the properties of it, it reminded me of optial, but you could never do that with opteal.
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Yeah, exactly, exactly.
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Yeah, so much more stable.
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It's 35% lighter than acetate.
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We have a really cool proprietary bridge design that adjusts as well because not all kids are identical.
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So an adjustable bridge, a module hinge that will allow you to put a complete sport strap on this frame.
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That's awesome.
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You know, kids to play sports, fits under a helmet, under a ski helmet, under a football helmet, a motorcycle helmet.
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Yeah.
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So we've created this product, you know, with all of these, you know, indestructible properties.
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But what it's turned out to be able to do is because of this constant temporal pressure from my patented hinge, is it keeps the OC in the OC.
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The optical center stays centered perfectly for children.
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Myopia control lenses don't work if the OC does not stay in the OCD.
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That's exactly right.
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Yeah.
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And you know, a kid has to wear that frame for 10, 12, 13 hours a day to get the true benefit out of it.
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I I don't see, I don't see a better solution than what we're providing right now in the marketplace.
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Light, comfortable, and I along with my daughter Cassandra, we take the responsibility of often being the very first pair of glasses that children wear very seriously.
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We want to we want to deliver the best possible experience we can for them because it can be a traumatic experience for mom, for uh you know, for mom and dad, for the child.
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So we start at 36 eye size, and we have got crystal clears with a bit of color, we've got super soft materials that babies demand.
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We do a strap from uh uh an absolutely super soft material.
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This is neoprene, so children actually don't feel any pressure, babies don't feel any pressure on the back of their neoprene.
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That's along with components, you know, it's it's really important.
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Well, and it's also cost-effective because if you're a parent and you're looking at a series, if you're looking at management, and and we know that there some of the lenses have better you know properties of repeating change and others than others do.
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You know, the goal is to not have a whole series of lens changes for uh a young person.
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But at the end of the day, it's keeping that myopia area over the eye and having the adjustable bridge so the optician can do that.
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That's I don't know, that you're thinking a little bit ahead of the game with the connecting of the lenses.
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Speak a little bit about that.
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That's that's pretty cool.
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For that, Peter.
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I I honestly I wasn't thinking ahead of the game.
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The game actually caught up with what we were thinking.
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And you know, we didn't realize that having constant temporal pressure was was a big key.
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You know, the idea, the idea that this frame as a result, and I'm sure this looks wonderful on me, but I am in Paris after all, so I can wear anything.
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Um, this gentle temporal pressure seats that frame exactly where put.
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Whereas, you know, as a as a as a guy that's been wearing glasses from for a big chunk of his life, having glasses that slide down, obviously that that defeats the purpose of that that myopia control lens.
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But it's it's more than just that.
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It's not just a matter of having a frame for myopia and myopia control.
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It's it's a frame that and listen, Indie Kids is our brand.
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And and of course, we're we're business people and we want to sell lots of frames.
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You know, we we started we started a long time ago distributing uh a brand of eyewear that we that was just exceptional, but it always seemed to fall short.
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So when we created our own collection, we knew what the shortcomings were and we wanted to build around that, design around it.
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So let's you know, cards on the table, we like we are business people, but we're also we're also optical people.
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You know, when you've been around as long as we have, having the ability to having a you know a responsibility.
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We have about four or five thousand shops in North America that carry our product.
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So you have to have a very comprehensive collection.
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We're in about 25 countries right now, and this is as a result of going to Mito, going to Silmo.
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I've been traveling to Colombia, South America, Latin America, the Middle East.
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We've been really fortunate, and people are seeking us out as an alternative because word is out that we have an amazing product.
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So, you know, that's the sales side of things.
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We know we know we know that in some countries the sun shines all the time.
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So we have a polarized magnetic clip on, so that that myopia control lens can be worn for 10 or 12 hours a day in the sunshine.
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Well, and you're also you're also saving parents some dollars with the strat and with the clip.
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And it's this is huge for me.
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That's the first thing I relate to, you know.
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It's a system, Peter, and and you know, it's a system, but it's a solution.
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And but you know, delivering good product, yeah, we're we're all about that, but delivering exceptional customer service, Cassandra is responsible for making sure that our customers are comfortable.
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We we believe in what we're doing so well.
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We guarantee everything unconditionally for three years from the data dispensing.
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And quite frankly, we don't care what happened.
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You know, if if it if the product failed the patient as an eye care professional, you need to dispense it with confidence, knowing that all you got to do is give them a replacement part and or a frame or whatever.
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Just make sure that mom is happy because in a few years she's gonna have to buy another pair.
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And we really want them to buy our pair.
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We want them to grow from you know into that, you know, maybe into that 58 eye size.
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Because not all kids are made the same.
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Depending on where you're born, depending on your the biometrics of your face, the lineage that you come from, you may need a frame that's a 58, you may only be 10 or 12 years old.
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We do that.
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We do that, it's a big commitment.
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So, Cassandra, talk about how were you kind of born into this for lack of better terms.
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Yeah, no, it's uh my father in the optical industry has always been a part of my life.
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Uh, it's always been, you know, glasses floating around the house.
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So, Cassandra, try this on.
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Uh, let me see what's this like, what do you think of this?
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Uh, this is new, this is what we're doing with the new business.
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It's always been a part of my existence.
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Um, it was always a very convenient uh job in high school to go work in the warehouse for a little bit in the summertime and and do all that and kind of get familiarized and and see and see the business change.
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It changed so much.
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The industry changed, the way it has changed, the way my father operates, and to see him really get to the point where he is comfortably running his own business.
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I I've watched him as a child growing up, but moving from one company uh and you know, being in management and and changing that looks like moving to new roles and then ultimately really working to build the company that he wanted to build, that he envisioned to build, uh, and and to get to a place where he felt comfortable.
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Um I came into the industry right after university.
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I was, you know, a classic post grad, wasn't sure what I was gonna do with myself, and uh, you know, he said, come work for me.
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So I was I was working in a restaurant and was kind of just figuring things out.
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And so I started, I I really started at the bottom again.
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I worked in the warehouse, I got familiarized with the product, um, started getting up from there and going into the front of office, started understanding the customer service side of things, the marketing side of things, and from there uh going on trips with my father to the the shows, meeting the factory, seeing the product development and that process, and just really having a holistic kind of training in how this industry works and how quickly it changes, and just seeing every aspect of it.
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Um, and then before I knew it, it's been almost 15 years myself that I've been working in the in the office and industry.
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You just hit on something that is so we almost take it for granted how fast things change in eye care, eyewear, all of it, lenses, coatings.
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Yeah, the speed of that change can be overwhelming when you're talking about like on the ground inside of dispensaries.
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So, you know, talk about the connection directly with the people that are doing the work.
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I mean, that to me that's gotta be the hardest part of getting your word out.
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You can see something fantastic at a trade show, but if you forget about it in three days, how good was that?
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You know, and you can get overwhelmed too.
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So sometimes there's a set of as you're going with the changes.
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How do you go with the changes?
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I don't know how to quit that.
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Well, I I mean, I can I think I I best go and answer that because a long time ago I realized you know, no one ever asks you what is old.
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It's always what is new.
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You have to return like a Porsche, not like a train.
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And sometimes you have to just you know fold your deck and start off again because change, change, you you you may you may think you have a good program, but the market will tell you very quickly if you're on the right track or the wrong track.
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And you're only as good as your last release.
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You know, I've always said, Peter, that this is one of the easiest businesses to get into, and perhaps the one one of the most difficult ones to stay in.
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Continuing to be relevant with new collections, new ideas, you're only as good as your last release.
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And and I I genuinely believe that.
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So, and you have to have thick skin because sometimes people walk, even your best customers will go, I don't like it.
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And you just yeah, you gotta start again.
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You know, and other times, other times, and and listen, I'm I'm I'm a pretty basic utilitarian guy.
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I still go in the warehouse early in the morning, I still look at the movement of the inventory physically, like physically.
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Look, well, there was 20 boxes there yesterday, there's 10 today.
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That's selling.
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You know, sometimes sometimes I do it as rudimentary as that.
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Other times it gets really deep.
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Because it's not just a science, it can be an art at the same time.
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And when you're dealing with when you're dealing with inventory and you're dealing with new products, you're dealing with trends, you can really get caught up.
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For example, being here in Paris and seeing some of the really truly eclectic, super, you know, heavy design focused eyewear.
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I'd love to be able to bring that back to Canada and introduce it.
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But those seven stores that could sell it are not going to make it worthwhile.
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And they don't they don't want to buy that product from me.
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I fully get it.
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They want to bring it in themselves.
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They that I I'm a firm believer that an optical shop should be the expression of that particular optician or optometrist.
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Uh, and I think it should be an extension of their personality.
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I it's always very clear to me when somebody is trying to take a shotgun approach.
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You know, I for lack of a better word, you know, we've all seen the luxodification of an optical store where everything went from you know to the grays and the browns and the tortoises and the gunmetal, and it got boring.
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And I love color.
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I've always been very color-centric in what I'm doing.
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And and and so, and then sometimes the market doesn't want that.
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And and so I think maybe that's why I enjoy the kids' market because kids love color and we're into color.
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They do.
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You know, so you see that, but but I I would love to see, and I know we're not going backwards, the market's not going to return to what it was, but finding ways and finding those shops that want to differentiate themselves, be independent, you know, not be at the band command of private equity, not be part of a chain or part of a program that is rolled out to them just because of their association or their affiliation.
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I I think this is really important, and and and any any i care professional that that can hear this, I am I could I implore you look at your dispensary, make sure that it's something that you want to go in an area that you could go and shop in, that you would want to sell in, and don't get sucked into the world of of what you think mainstream optical is because mainstream optical will will eat you alive.
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You have to you have to carve your own little pathway in this business for it.
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Exactly.
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Well, and don't be scared of their optician that is self-branding themselves on various forms of social media so that they can talk about specific topics that that fascinate me.
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There's, you know, I don't want to go down the bespoke road too deep, but every once in a while somebody will promote one, I'll hear a story on TikTok or whatever.
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And you know, a day later, when someone gets back at the office, that frame's gone.
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And it's like this weird particular computer and they've been busy the whole time, you know.
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So there, you know, there is a market for that too.
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I I mean, I I I I think I think you're right.
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I think not being afraid, you know, jumping in with both feet, you're you're on to it.
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I mean, 100%.
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I think that that speaks to kind of how the company has really grown and how my father approaches his work.
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Is it's always been a curiosity, uh, a curiosity for what's new.
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Uh he's always always looked at new technology, has always been open to see what a factory can do, to see a new material, to see a new concept.
00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:39.519
Uh, and I think that really has influenced the knowledge base that he has, you know, what sweat interiors has acquired over the last uh 40 years in the industry, but it really speaks to how we've gotten to this point in the product that we make and how we how we present it.
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:45.519
It's it's curiosity, it's desire to learn, to try, to explore and improve upon.
00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:47.839
It's been a big part of how we've uh grown.
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:52.160
Is is there a specific technology you guys have been wowed by there?
00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:57.599
And I don't mean the the technical details, but is there anything you've seen at Tisilmo that's kind of blown you away?
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:08.880
There's a company across from us that is a California-based um tech company that has four stylus of glasses that are AI driven.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.440
I counted because that's what I do.
00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:14.240
There's 46 parts in every frame.
00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:18.000
Um it's it's a wonderful product.
00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:25.599
Um I I wish I could say I'm wowed by it, but to be honest with you, I don't know that I truly understand it.
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:32.079
Um this is an area that that I think all of us are, all of us know it it's coming or it's here.
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:35.680
We all know about meta, we all know about smart glasses.
00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:44.079
Um, you know, the there is a I think we're all at a at a stage where there's a bit of a conundrum, you know, having having cameras on your frames.
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:45.039
That's a big thing.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:47.039
I mean it is a big thing.
00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:55.680
And showing to me, demonstrating proper use, demonstrating who owns that technology, these are the responsibilities of that room.
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:59.680
And I don't think that's an easy thing in any way.
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:05.039
Uh I don't, I'm not saying there's a little checkbox and we accept and move on.
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:11.920
It's there's a dance club in Toronto that banned iwear with can cameras in it on the dance floor.
00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:12.319
Right.
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:17.440
And that's where I'd go dance if I went dancing, because I certainly want somebody.
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:21.039
This does not need to be filmed by trust me.
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:22.880
I love that.
00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:38.400
But to me, uh well, and we talked a little bit before we started recording about um the evolution of uh Silmo and obviously how uh there have been ups and downs, but you mentioned it was the second biggest show in the world.
00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:42.400
Um has turnout been pretty impressive this year, would you say?
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:49.599
You know, I I'm I'm I've never been really good at gauging people walking through the doors.
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:58.720
And I think we all are at the mercy of the companies that organize the shows to give us legitimate count numbers, how many real people actually walk through the doors?
00:21:58.960 --> 00:21:59.759
I can tell you.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.119
That um there's a steady flow.
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:04.880
There's been a lot of students today.
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:09.839
It's Monday at Silmo, so it's a kind of a student uh optometry, opticianary day.
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:16.240
Um, love to see the enthusiasm, young faces makes me feel like there's a future for what we're doing.
00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:19.039
That it that warms my heart.
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:33.359
Um I uh to tell you that it's busier than last year or not as busy, I'm I can tell you we are much busier this year than we were last year, but I don't know if that's a result of just us doing a better job at where we're located, or maybe I don't know.
00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:35.920
And you were there last year too.
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:38.400
So sometimes I think sometimes that helps.
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:42.559
Um we're did you have indie kids with you last year, or is it just that you're came for?
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:42.960
Yeah.
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:46.319
No, we're on the road with indie kids, that's the tip of our spear.
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:47.359
We have other collections.
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:50.720
Alternative eyewear is a is a full-range frame house.
00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:59.279
We live in sort of the middle market, and you know, we I've been designing and creating the collections since the inception of the business.
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:07.759
I just, you know, like a lot of things, we just happen to sell much more kids' frames, and you know, we we we offer solutions there.
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:18.000
So it it represents more than half of our business, and so we we focus on it, and we're looking for distribution for all our brands, of course, around the world, but but indie kids first and foremost.
00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:24.240
Because in this building, uh if I could toot my own horn, I don't think anybody has a better kids collection than we do.
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:25.279
So two to two.
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:27.920
Uh you know, the full range.
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:31.440
Canada, we we wave our flag very proudly here.
00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:37.039
We're incredibly uh uh proud of where we come from, we're proud of what we sell.
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:43.759
We we know that we're helping a lot of parents and a lot of eye care professionals provide solutions to kids that really need it.
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:51.920
And whether that's you know, we work with people like Boston Children's Hospital, and those people, there's a special place in heaven for them.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:55.200
They see the worst of the worst, they dispense our product.
00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:56.400
That makes me very proud.
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.039
Houston General and you should be.
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:04.480
And it's I mean, that's a there's that's a that's a challenging, it's a challenging issue.
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:25.279
I know the the optician that that won um international optician of the years has that's her specialty is dealing with misshapen faces and heads, and you know, that's you know, I mean, seriously, hats off to anybody who deals with that on an everyday basis and smiles and is a happy soul, and you know, that's a they're doing spectacular work.
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:30.079
I can't deny that, but I don't think I would have the stamina to be that individual.
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:40.720
Um talk a little bit about has your international reach gotten in the way at all of that everyday and the going in and getting your hands a little dirty kind of thing.
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:41.759
No, no, no.
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:43.759
I don't I mean I I work all the time.
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:50.240
I mean, I I love, you know, I don't actually work because I'm the luckiest guy in the world, I I do what I love.
00:24:50.559 --> 00:25:00.000
Um I guess I feel like I listen could there be a few more hours in the day for sure.
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:08.799
Um but I I feel I feel really comfortable that that what I'm doing uh I I I accomplish something every day.
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:10.640
I feel good about that.
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:21.279
I I you know if a customer happens to pick up the phone and call and complain and I'm free, I come I like to take the complaint because I don't need anybody to tell me I'm doing a great job.
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.119
Tell me tell me what I screwed up at.
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:25.920
Let me see if I can fix that because who knows?
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:27.519
Maybe that's systemic.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:29.920
And if I don't know, I don't know how to fix it.
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:31.519
So I'm a realist.
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:33.920
You know, I am a genuine realist.
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:36.079
And and so, but I'm lucky.
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:45.440
Listen, Peter, if if you I don't know if you have children, but if you happen to have children and you're blessed enough to work with somebody that you love a three-year-old granddaughter.
00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:47.039
There you go.
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:48.720
Now I don't know that my grandchildren.
00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:51.599
Oh, it's it's the best thing in my world, I'll tell you that.
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:52.400
I bet.
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:53.119
I bet.
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.079
No, I know that feeling, but I'm the luckiest guy in the world.
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:58.480
I I my daughter's across the hall from me.
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:03.359
Um, you know, she grounds me, she puts me in my place always.
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:14.319
And more importantly, you know, when I can't figure out what part of my computer is broken, she can come in and I got a meeting starting and I can't get online.
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:16.799
And she rescues me.
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:24.160
But but more importantly than that, more importantly than looking after my shortcomings, she she completely is customer-centric.
00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:38.400
And I I really believe even though you know, even though so many orders come in through some type of technology, whether it's the iRep through the reps or the B2B site, you know, the phone still rings all day long.
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:42.799
And you know, we still are a hands-on, you know, we know our customers.
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:48.880
I mean, our our you know, our our account number 001 still orders every day.
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:51.440
And and I love that, and I'm proud of that.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:54.880
And and thankfully they haven't sold it to a private equity firm.
00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:57.039
So we we get that order every day.
00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:00.240
And and that's that's all of our collective nemesis.
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:15.359
You know, we if you're in the wholesale iwear business and you're a sales route, and you've built a territory of you know 150 or 200 accounts, and all of a sudden whatever equity comes in and buys nine of them.
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:21.920
You're and they're not buying the nine worst accounts, they're buying your nine best accounts because that's what they do.
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:28.880
And and that's you know, I've always said to my people, and I'm I'm fortunate, you know, I've got guys that have been with me since day one.
00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:33.279
Like Kevin Sobey has been with me for 36 years, and and I don't know where I'd be without him.
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:40.240
I got Jim Hameker running the US division 26 years, Bill Ballantine managing our sales force.
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:44.400
He's got 35 years of experience, and and 12 of them with me.
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:49.279
I I'm really lucky because I feel like I have a team that I could run through walls with.
00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:53.920
But we all know that you lose a customer, you lose an account.
00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:03.359
And it's not for anything that they did wrong or because of our product failed them, it's because the doc couldn't find somebody to buy it and took the check and left.
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:06.640
That's why I say you can never drive by an optical store.
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:08.720
You gotta knock on the doors constantly.
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:14.400
And I give them products that they can sell to because you want it, we have mostly exclusive reps.
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:24.480
I need to make sure they have a full range of products, whether it's at the lower end of the scale, the higher end of the scale, or the pediatric scale that we that we dominate in.
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:29.200
I want I want them to have something to sell everywhere because we don't have a lot of choices.
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:42.079
I believe the optician market, you know, the independent optician who's not taking insurance is poised to explode in the next you know three to five years.
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:48.559
Uh as long as we can instill some entrepreneurism into the schooling.
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:50.400
You know, I think that that's kind of important.
00:28:50.640 --> 00:29:01.599
Show an example of what it will take and what because with AI, you can focus on the skill of being an optician, and you don't necessarily have to dedicate a ton of time to business management.
00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:08.799
And I don't want to go too far down this ugly road, but optometry has done a terrible job focusing on business management skills.
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:17.680
Um, they just, you know, they've some of them have done a great job even teaching basic optician skills better than they have business skills.
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:22.640
But that's, you know, again, we're in an employee type and mindset.
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:37.680
So if we can instill some entrepreneurism, I think there's beautiful opportunities to work with, like you talked about, all up and down, you know, from children's styles, you know, right through, you know, those giant 58 eyes that you were talking about earlier.
00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:43.839
Um, I think that's I mean, I think I'm gonna affect my business personally.
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:49.680
I I I think I think anyone who thinks they know are probably a little misguided.
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:56.400
I do I do know that it's created efficiencies for us, allowed us for to do more with less.
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:58.640
Um we don't use it a lot.
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:03.440
I I I take exception when I see uh AI generated imagery.
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:09.359
I think it's I get it, we use it, we have to use it because it's economical.
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:21.039
But you know, from a it worries me because I think it has a potential of homogenizing what each individual company does and what each individual project is.
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:28.240
And and being a pragmatic person and and the economics of things, I want to save money, of course.
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:37.440
I want to put out a good image of product, but you know, I the the kids behind me pulling that frame, they were doing that in my backyard, by the way.
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:43.839
You know, so using the economics of my my property as the as the stage for our photo shoot, right?
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:47.359
We are a grassroots company, we do what we need to do, right?
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:48.880
Right.
00:30:49.759 --> 00:31:09.839
And which is really how it should be, and you know, and in my mind, you know, and you guys have built a I mean look at how much you've expanded in a 25-year window, you know, and and you know, from the beginnings to to to what you what you are right now.
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:13.279
So so what do you guys see for the rest of 2026?
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.480
Well, I hope it snows because I want to ski most of the winter.
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:24.319
Oh man, I gotta get my knee fixed and get on the snowboard again.
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:25.119
I'd love that.
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:30.000
This metal this metal hip's in excellent shape, and we'll be jumping off a mountain very soon.
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:36.559
Um, you know, optically speaking, uh this is this is the last big show uh in in Europe for us.
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:41.680
I'm going to Argentina uh for uh their first uh big show.
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:43.759
I'm gonna do that in November.
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:49.920
Uh I'll visit the Hong Kong Fair this year, as I have since the last 35 years.
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:52.000
I do not have a booth in Hong Kong.
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:54.559
I have had a booth the last couple of years there.
00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:57.279
Hasn't been particularly well attended.
00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:03.440
Um we look for Southeast Asian distribution through that network, and and that hasn't really materialized for us.
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:19.279
So I think I'm gonna just visit like I have traditionally, and then I think we wind it up and start getting ready for Mito and the new releases in January for our sales team to go out and and sell product and you know, have you know, let let everybody have a little bit of a break.
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:22.480
You know, 26 was much better than 25.
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:23.279
Right.
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:30.720
For for those of us listening on any border, you know the relationship between Canada and the United States is incredibly strong.
00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:38.240
And I'm not gonna let the people that run our countries dictate the great relationships we have with our families on both sides of the border.
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:49.519
So we, you know, hopefully there's some calmer, more civilized heads will prevail and we can get back to a normal back and forth with each other like we always have.
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:53.599
I um I have uh bailed on Vision Expo for next year.
00:32:53.680 --> 00:33:00.480
Um you know, I say it's part of my silent rebellion against what's being put up to us as Canadians.
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:25.359
We're not the 51st state, and we're you know, and I refuse at this point in time to put the resources into a country that or into a government that, and I won't get too political, but political enough to say this I'm a proud Canadian and I stand up for Canada, and we will be a fiercely independent country as long as I'm a as long as I'm part of it and as long as my family's part of it.
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:29.279
Well, I'm not gonna shy away from saying things are completely insane here.
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:41.039
I you know, there's no there's no I you know hey, there was a time when I would, you know, hide behind a a shield, but there's nothing to hide behind anymore.
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:50.319
No more there it our trade is laughable right now, and and and I don't want, you know, that's not what this podcast is dedicated to, but it is.
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:56.480
And uh I don't think any all right, a very large percentage of Americans did not sign up for this.
00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:57.279
No, I don't know.
00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:09.679
Uh and and you know, and I do that's the one hook I'm hanging a hat on, and really hoping that Canada and certainly South America and Middle America understand, you know, this is a window of time.
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:14.079
Hopefully we can clean it up quicker than the full duration.
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:15.920
So we'll see what we can do.
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:22.400
But everything much you know, it is impacting eye care in ways it shouldn't.
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:24.079
People shouldn't.
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:26.559
Don't you dare mess with people's vision.
00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:27.519
Stop it.
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:31.280
You know, you can do a lot of other crap, but I'm done with that.
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:35.679
All right, I I'll I'll I'll stop before we get too too too down that road.
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:37.760
I think we can all agree on one thing.
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:49.280
Uh, you don't have to be a mathematician, an accountant, or or or a business whiz to understand if iwear costs more to import into the United States, guess who's gonna pay?
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:51.039
The consumer.
00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:53.519
Over and over and over again.
00:34:53.760 --> 00:35:04.559
Which is even and you know, in this particular instance, we're talking about children and parents managing vision for children.
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:14.800
Anyway, before I get steam puffs coming out of my ears, we'll uh we'll head towards uh towards a wrap-up.
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:17.280
Is there any piece of wisdom that you would want to share?
00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:20.000
Anything you guys want to share as we end?
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:26.800
You know, uh listen, I from my point of view, first of all, thank you for taking the time to to speak with us.
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:36.800
And and and and you know, if if we can uh thank you very much for for including us in your podcast, Peter.
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:38.159
You know, we thank you.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:43.280
We and thanks for being patient because it's the end of the day on the last on the fourth day.
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:44.159
Right today.
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:45.679
You guys are busy.
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:50.960
I think it's fantastic that we're able to do this at all in this way from from Selmo.
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:52.559
I think it's absolutely awesome.
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:55.039
I would ask one thing of you guys.
00:35:55.199 --> 00:36:06.880
Um, if you have a chance as you begin to make these connections, um ask some people to film, and we know we love this, ask some people to film children seen clearly.
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:10.960
Um I you know everybody loves that.
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:11.599
You know I do.
00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:22.800
If if I need a good cry, uh watching a baby watching a baby put on their first pair of glasses and seeing their mom, that's a good cry.
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:24.960
I'm a big softy for that stuff.
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:32.559
I am too, but they're they're happy tears because and sometimes sometimes at a bad day or two that can change things, you know.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:33.920
So really.
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:41.199
I mean, we we we are probably the only look we can we can change lives with glasses.
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:44.159
We do every day, every minute.
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:45.519
We don't even know it.
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:51.440
We're doing our stuff and things that we've done and are actually impacting and changing other people's lives too.
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:59.119
Not just the people that we saw clearly, but the people that are around them, which is really the special part in my mind of iCare that we don't talk about enough.
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:00.639
But we will.
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:02.320
Thank you guys so much.
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:05.119
I think this has been an absolutely awesome interview.
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:06.800
Uh, enjoy the rest of Silmo.
00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:08.559
You guys are breaking down today, I guess.
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:17.440
Um breaking down, eating good food, having a great time in Paris, went to the Eiffel Tower like we do all the time, just to see what we once saw.
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:22.800
But we took somebody who had never been, and uh, you know, it's always just the awe on people's faces.
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:23.599
Oh, yeah.
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:25.519
You know, these great cities of the world.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:27.360
I mean, if you haven't been, you gotta go.
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:28.880
I mean, they're just amazing.
00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:30.559
It's on my list.
00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:31.519
I'll get there.
00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:32.800
You'll get there.
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:35.119
Thank you guys so much.
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:37.599
Uh it's our pleasure.
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:38.239
Take care.
00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:39.840
Thank you so much.
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:43.039
This has been another episode of Optometry Prophets Revealed.
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:45.440
Thank you so much for for listening.
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:47.280
Please subscribe, everybody.
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You're fine there, guys.
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Welcome to another episode of Optometry Profits Review, and I'm your host, Peter Precht.
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Today we are with Paul and Cassandra of Alternative Eyewear.
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They are both at Silmo.
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And without any further ado, let's roll into your journey and how you ended up where you are today.
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Thank you so much for being here.
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Thank you, Peter.
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Well, my journey is long.
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I mean, I'm almost 40 years in the eyewear business.
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It's uh, you know, it got under my skin as a young person, and I loved it.
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I loved eyewear.
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I knew nothing.
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First of all, I knew absolutely nothing about the spectacle business.
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You know, being a Canadian, I thought everybody got their glasses from the Rack at Eaton.
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So I didn't know about optometry or ophthalmology or you know, what an optician was and what they did specifically.
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And I remember my first day on the job, which was kind of an interesting job.
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Uh I didn't have an interview.
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In fact, I was filling in for a friend who couldn't really make his first day on the job.
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So I was out in the field with my manager with a bag of gazelle and a bag of Marklin in 1985-ish.
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Oh wow.
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Yeah.
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Come a long way.
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Pretty good lines, though.
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Big lines to start with.
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Big lines to start with.
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And the cover of the Toronto Star, the Toronto Sun, I should say, that day was some poor undercover policeman had been killed over a pair of sunglasses.
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I mean, it's a sad, you know, horrible story, but my phone started to ring because everybody wanted gazelles.
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They wanted to see the glasses that people would die over.
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Isn't that crazy?
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And, you know, it was a great journey.
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I had a bag of frames that sold for$50 and a bag of frames that sold for$200.
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And I still did wasn't entirely sure what the difference was, frankly.
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But I loved it.
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I just loved it.
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I love I love the people, I love the intensity, I love the the fashion, I love the I love the the fact that it's an aid.
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Uh I love that I'm I've been there or been around long enough to see it go from being you know a utilitarian product and saw it become a commodity.
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You know, I saw Luxotica buy lens crafters, all those things that it's so many of us that have been around for so long seemed to be.
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We were just talking about your about Silmo and how you had experienced it at that time, and and how it had what it's evolved to and what you've seen recently.
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Um but please the both of you share how how you know Silmo's different today than it was then.
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I mean, I don't have a tremendous I mean there are certainly a lot more skilled people about as it relates to Silmo than I.
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But being a Canadian, we were one of the very first Canadian companies back in a previous life, back in the 90s.
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I had a booth here and was doing some private label of my own designs, and you know, we're trying to sell into any market in every market, specifically the European market.
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And at that time, you know, there was a very symbiont high-end, low-end design focus, brand focus.
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But what I'm seeing today is more a real segmentation where the big chains, the brands have gone off in their direction, and this amazing group of young designers that have emerged, uh, people that I don't know and never heard of, that have like amazing, amazing collections are all around us in our neighborhood.
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You know, we're we've been really fortunate to be we're in a very high-end uh area, and what we do is completely different from what our neighbors are doing, but what I'm seeing from my neighbors is a real inspiration.
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I mean, unbelievable colors, unbelievable choices of materials, unbelievable laminations, shapes that are a tremendous blend of the old and eclectic and the new and eclectic.
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And you know, I never thought I would put that color together, but dang, does it work?
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You know, that kind of thing.
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Crazy.
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For me, you know, we're we're focused, Peter, as you know, we're focused in pediatrics.
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Right.
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You know, we make frames for 36 eye size to 58 eye size for children is our our main our main component.
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And you know, I'm gonna adopt some of those great ideas that I've seen from some of these fabulous French and Italian designers into what our collections will look like in the future because I think kids, kids in general, they're demanding so much more.
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Um, I see it, I feel it.
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I feel like we're so dialed into color, shape, style right now.
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What we sell is so conducive to what the lens market looks like these days.
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You know, there's so much myopia control talk out there.
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And and and I think, you know, Peter, you and I talked about this before.
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I mean, what we make and what we sell is perhaps the most you know conducive product for a myopia control lens.
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I I mean I have one here just to give it an example.
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You know, we have we make our frames out of a unbelievable memory metal or memory metal, memory plastic.
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This plastic has perfect memory, it does not shrink, it does not stretch, the lenses will never breach, they stay, they stay put.
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When it's weird, when I read the properties of it, it reminded me of optial, but you could never do that with opteal.
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Yeah, exactly, exactly.
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Yeah, so much more stable.
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It's 35% lighter than acetate.
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We have a really cool proprietary bridge design that adjusts as well because not all kids are identical.
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So an adjustable bridge, a module hinge that will allow you to put a complete sport strap on this frame.
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That's awesome.
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You know, kids to play sports, fits under a helmet, under a ski helmet, under a football helmet, a motorcycle helmet.
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Yeah.
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So we've created this product, you know, with all of these, you know, indestructible properties.
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But what it's turned out to be able to do is because of this constant temporal pressure from my patented hinge, is it keeps the OC in the OC.
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The optical center stays centered perfectly for children.
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Myopia control lenses don't work if the OC does not stay in the OCD.
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That's exactly right.
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Yeah.
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And you know, a kid has to wear that frame for 10, 12, 13 hours a day to get the true benefit out of it.
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I I don't see, I don't see a better solution than what we're providing right now in the marketplace.
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Light, comfortable, and I along with my daughter Cassandra, we take the responsibility of often being the very first pair of glasses that children wear very seriously.
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We want to we want to deliver the best possible experience we can for them because it can be a traumatic experience for mom, for uh you know, for mom and dad, for the child.
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So we start at 36 eye size, and we have got crystal clears with a bit of color, we've got super soft materials that babies demand.
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We do a strap from uh uh an absolutely super soft material.
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This is neoprene, so children actually don't feel any pressure, babies don't feel any pressure on the back of their neoprene.
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That's along with components, you know, it's it's really important.
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Well, and it's also cost-effective because if you're a parent and you're looking at a series, if you're looking at management, and and we know that there some of the lenses have better you know properties of repeating change and others than others do.
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You know, the goal is to not have a whole series of lens changes for uh a young person.
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But at the end of the day, it's keeping that myopia area over the eye and having the adjustable bridge so the optician can do that.
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That's I don't know, that you're thinking a little bit ahead of the game with the connecting of the lenses.
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Speak a little bit about that.
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That's that's pretty cool.
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For that, Peter.
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I I honestly I wasn't thinking ahead of the game.
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The game actually caught up with what we were thinking.
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And you know, we didn't realize that having constant temporal pressure was was a big key.
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You know, the idea, the idea that this frame as a result, and I'm sure this looks wonderful on me, but I am in Paris after all, so I can wear anything.
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Um, this gentle temporal pressure seats that frame exactly where put.
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Whereas, you know, as a as a as a guy that's been wearing glasses from for a big chunk of his life, having glasses that slide down, obviously that that defeats the purpose of that that myopia control lens.
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But it's it's more than just that.
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It's not just a matter of having a frame for myopia and myopia control.
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It's it's a frame that and listen, Indie Kids is our brand.
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And and of course, we're we're business people and we want to sell lots of frames.
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You know, we we started we started a long time ago distributing uh a brand of eyewear that we that was just exceptional, but it always seemed to fall short.
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So when we created our own collection, we knew what the shortcomings were and we wanted to build around that, design around it.
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So let's you know, cards on the table, we like we are business people, but we're also we're also optical people.
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You know, when you've been around as long as we have, having the ability to having a you know a responsibility.
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We have about four or five thousand shops in North America that carry our product.
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So you have to have a very comprehensive collection.
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We're in about 25 countries right now, and this is as a result of going to Mito, going to Silmo.
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I've been traveling to Colombia, South America, Latin America, the Middle East.
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We've been really fortunate, and people are seeking us out as an alternative because word is out that we have an amazing product.
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So, you know, that's the sales side of things.
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We know we know we know that in some countries the sun shines all the time.
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So we have a polarized magnetic clip on, so that that myopia control lens can be worn for 10 or 12 hours a day in the sunshine.
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Well, and you're also you're also saving parents some dollars with the strat and with the clip.
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And it's this is huge for me.
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That's the first thing I relate to, you know.
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It's a system, Peter, and and you know, it's a system, but it's a solution.
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And but you know, delivering good product, yeah, we're we're all about that, but delivering exceptional customer service, Cassandra is responsible for making sure that our customers are comfortable.
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We we believe in what we're doing so well.
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We guarantee everything unconditionally for three years from the data dispensing.
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And quite frankly, we don't care what happened.
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You know, if if it if the product failed the patient as an eye care professional, you need to dispense it with confidence, knowing that all you got to do is give them a replacement part and or a frame or whatever.
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Just make sure that mom is happy because in a few years she's gonna have to buy another pair.
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And we really want them to buy our pair.
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We want them to grow from you know into that, you know, maybe into that 58 eye size.
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Because not all kids are made the same.
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Depending on where you're born, depending on your the biometrics of your face, the lineage that you come from, you may need a frame that's a 58, you may only be 10 or 12 years old.
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We do that.
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We do that, it's a big commitment.
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So, Cassandra, talk about how were you kind of born into this for lack of better terms.
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Yeah, no, it's uh my father in the optical industry has always been a part of my life.
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Uh, it's always been, you know, glasses floating around the house.
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So, Cassandra, try this on.
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Uh, let me see what's this like, what do you think of this?
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Uh, this is new, this is what we're doing with the new business.
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It's always been a part of my existence.
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Um, it was always a very convenient uh job in high school to go work in the warehouse for a little bit in the summertime and and do all that and kind of get familiarized and and see and see the business change.
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It changed so much.
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The industry changed, the way it has changed, the way my father operates, and to see him really get to the point where he is comfortably running his own business.
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I I've watched him as a child growing up, but moving from one company uh and you know, being in management and and changing that looks like moving to new roles and then ultimately really working to build the company that he wanted to build, that he envisioned to build, uh, and and to get to a place where he felt comfortable.
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Um I came into the industry right after university.
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I was, you know, a classic post grad, wasn't sure what I was gonna do with myself, and uh, you know, he said, come work for me.
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So I was I was working in a restaurant and was kind of just figuring things out.
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And so I started, I I really started at the bottom again.
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I worked in the warehouse, I got familiarized with the product, um, started getting up from there and going into the front of office, started understanding the customer service side of things, the marketing side of things, and from there uh going on trips with my father to the the shows, meeting the factory, seeing the product development and that process, and just really having a holistic kind of training in how this industry works and how quickly it changes, and just seeing every aspect of it.
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Um, and then before I knew it, it's been almost 15 years myself that I've been working in the in the office and industry.
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You just hit on something that is so we almost take it for granted how fast things change in eye care, eyewear, all of it, lenses, coatings.
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Yeah, the speed of that change can be overwhelming when you're talking about like on the ground inside of dispensaries.
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So, you know, talk about the connection directly with the people that are doing the work.
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I mean, that to me that's gotta be the hardest part of getting your word out.
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You can see something fantastic at a trade show, but if you forget about it in three days, how good was that?
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You know, and you can get overwhelmed too.
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So sometimes there's a set of as you're going with the changes.
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How do you go with the changes?
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I don't know how to quit that.
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Well, I I mean, I can I think I I best go and answer that because a long time ago I realized you know, no one ever asks you what is old.
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It's always what is new.
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You have to return like a Porsche, not like a train.
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And sometimes you have to just you know fold your deck and start off again because change, change, you you you may you may think you have a good program, but the market will tell you very quickly if you're on the right track or the wrong track.
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And you're only as good as your last release.
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You know, I've always said, Peter, that this is one of the easiest businesses to get into, and perhaps the one one of the most difficult ones to stay in.
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Continuing to be relevant with new collections, new ideas, you're only as good as your last release.
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And and I I genuinely believe that.
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So, and you have to have thick skin because sometimes people walk, even your best customers will go, I don't like it.
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And you just yeah, you gotta start again.
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You know, and other times, other times, and and listen, I'm I'm I'm a pretty basic utilitarian guy.
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I still go in the warehouse early in the morning, I still look at the movement of the inventory physically, like physically.
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Look, well, there was 20 boxes there yesterday, there's 10 today.
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That's selling.
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You know, sometimes sometimes I do it as rudimentary as that.
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Other times it gets really deep.
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Because it's not just a science, it can be an art at the same time.
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And when you're dealing with when you're dealing with inventory and you're dealing with new products, you're dealing with trends, you can really get caught up.
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For example, being here in Paris and seeing some of the really truly eclectic, super, you know, heavy design focused eyewear.
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I'd love to be able to bring that back to Canada and introduce it.
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But those seven stores that could sell it are not going to make it worthwhile.
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And they don't they don't want to buy that product from me.
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I fully get it.
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They want to bring it in themselves.
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They that I I'm a firm believer that an optical shop should be the expression of that particular optician or optometrist.
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Uh, and I think it should be an extension of their personality.
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I it's always very clear to me when somebody is trying to take a shotgun approach.
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You know, I for lack of a better word, you know, we've all seen the luxodification of an optical store where everything went from you know to the grays and the browns and the tortoises and the gunmetal, and it got boring.
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And I love color.
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I've always been very color-centric in what I'm doing.
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And and and so, and then sometimes the market doesn't want that.
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And and so I think maybe that's why I enjoy the kids' market because kids love color and we're into color.
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They do.
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You know, so you see that, but but I I would love to see, and I know we're not going backwards, the market's not going to return to what it was, but finding ways and finding those shops that want to differentiate themselves, be independent, you know, not be at the band command of private equity, not be part of a chain or part of a program that is rolled out to them just because of their association or their affiliation.
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I I think this is really important, and and and any any i care professional that that can hear this, I am I could I implore you look at your dispensary, make sure that it's something that you want to go in an area that you could go and shop in, that you would want to sell in, and don't get sucked into the world of of what you think mainstream optical is because mainstream optical will will eat you alive.
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You have to you have to carve your own little pathway in this business for it.
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Exactly.
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Well, and don't be scared of their optician that is self-branding themselves on various forms of social media so that they can talk about specific topics that that fascinate me.
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There's, you know, I don't want to go down the bespoke road too deep, but every once in a while somebody will promote one, I'll hear a story on TikTok or whatever.
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And you know, a day later, when someone gets back at the office, that frame's gone.
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And it's like this weird particular computer and they've been busy the whole time, you know.
00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:55.759
So there, you know, there is a market for that too.
00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:59.039
I I mean, I I I I think I think you're right.
00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:05.119
I think not being afraid, you know, jumping in with both feet, you're you're on to it.
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I mean, 100%.
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I think that that speaks to kind of how the company has really grown and how my father approaches his work.
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Is it's always been a curiosity, uh, a curiosity for what's new.
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:25.680
Uh he's always always looked at new technology, has always been open to see what a factory can do, to see a new material, to see a new concept.
00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:39.519
Uh, and I think that really has influenced the knowledge base that he has, you know, what sweat interiors has acquired over the last uh 40 years in the industry, but it really speaks to how we've gotten to this point in the product that we make and how we how we present it.
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:45.519
It's it's curiosity, it's desire to learn, to try, to explore and improve upon.
00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:47.839
It's been a big part of how we've uh grown.
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:52.160
Is is there a specific technology you guys have been wowed by there?
00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:57.599
And I don't mean the the technical details, but is there anything you've seen at Tisilmo that's kind of blown you away?
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:08.880
There's a company across from us that is a California-based um tech company that has four stylus of glasses that are AI driven.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.440
I counted because that's what I do.
00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:14.240
There's 46 parts in every frame.
00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:18.000
Um it's it's a wonderful product.
00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:25.599
Um I I wish I could say I'm wowed by it, but to be honest with you, I don't know that I truly understand it.
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:32.079
Um this is an area that that I think all of us are, all of us know it it's coming or it's here.
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:35.680
We all know about meta, we all know about smart glasses.
00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:44.079
Um, you know, the there is a I think we're all at a at a stage where there's a bit of a conundrum, you know, having having cameras on your frames.
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:45.039
That's a big thing.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:47.039
I mean it is a big thing.
00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:55.680
And showing to me, demonstrating proper use, demonstrating who owns that technology, these are the responsibilities of that room.
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:59.680
And I don't think that's an easy thing in any way.
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:05.039
Uh I don't, I'm not saying there's a little checkbox and we accept and move on.
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:11.920
It's there's a dance club in Toronto that banned iwear with can cameras in it on the dance floor.
00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:12.319
Right.
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:17.440
And that's where I'd go dance if I went dancing, because I certainly want somebody.
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:21.039
This does not need to be filmed by trust me.
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:22.880
I love that.
00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:38.400
But to me, uh well, and we talked a little bit before we started recording about um the evolution of uh Silmo and obviously how uh there have been ups and downs, but you mentioned it was the second biggest show in the world.
00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:42.400
Um has turnout been pretty impressive this year, would you say?
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:49.599
You know, I I'm I'm I've never been really good at gauging people walking through the doors.
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:58.720
And I think we all are at the mercy of the companies that organize the shows to give us legitimate count numbers, how many real people actually walk through the doors?
00:21:58.960 --> 00:21:59.759
I can tell you.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.119
That um there's a steady flow.
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:04.880
There's been a lot of students today.
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:09.839
It's Monday at Silmo, so it's a kind of a student uh optometry, opticianary day.
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:16.240
Um, love to see the enthusiasm, young faces makes me feel like there's a future for what we're doing.
00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:19.039
That it that warms my heart.
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:33.359
Um I uh to tell you that it's busier than last year or not as busy, I'm I can tell you we are much busier this year than we were last year, but I don't know if that's a result of just us doing a better job at where we're located, or maybe I don't know.
00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:35.920
And you were there last year too.
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:38.400
So sometimes I think sometimes that helps.
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:42.559
Um we're did you have indie kids with you last year, or is it just that you're came for?
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:42.960
Yeah.
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:46.319
No, we're on the road with indie kids, that's the tip of our spear.
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:47.359
We have other collections.
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:50.720
Alternative eyewear is a is a full-range frame house.
00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:59.279
We live in sort of the middle market, and you know, we I've been designing and creating the collections since the inception of the business.
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:07.759
I just, you know, like a lot of things, we just happen to sell much more kids' frames, and you know, we we we offer solutions there.
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:18.000
So it it represents more than half of our business, and so we we focus on it, and we're looking for distribution for all our brands, of course, around the world, but but indie kids first and foremost.
00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:24.240
Because in this building, uh if I could toot my own horn, I don't think anybody has a better kids collection than we do.
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:25.279
So two to two.
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:27.920
Uh you know, the full range.
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:31.440
Canada, we we wave our flag very proudly here.
00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:37.039
We're incredibly uh uh proud of where we come from, we're proud of what we sell.
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:43.759
We we know that we're helping a lot of parents and a lot of eye care professionals provide solutions to kids that really need it.
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:51.920
And whether that's you know, we work with people like Boston Children's Hospital, and those people, there's a special place in heaven for them.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:55.200
They see the worst of the worst, they dispense our product.
00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:56.400
That makes me very proud.
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.039
Houston General and you should be.
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:04.480
And it's I mean, that's a there's that's a that's a challenging, it's a challenging issue.
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:25.279
I know the the optician that that won um international optician of the years has that's her specialty is dealing with misshapen faces and heads, and you know, that's you know, I mean, seriously, hats off to anybody who deals with that on an everyday basis and smiles and is a happy soul, and you know, that's a they're doing spectacular work.
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:30.079
I can't deny that, but I don't think I would have the stamina to be that individual.
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:40.720
Um talk a little bit about has your international reach gotten in the way at all of that everyday and the going in and getting your hands a little dirty kind of thing.
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:41.759
No, no, no.
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:43.759
I don't I mean I I work all the time.
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:50.240
I mean, I I love, you know, I don't actually work because I'm the luckiest guy in the world, I I do what I love.
00:24:50.559 --> 00:25:00.000
Um I guess I feel like I listen could there be a few more hours in the day for sure.
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:08.799
Um but I I feel I feel really comfortable that that what I'm doing uh I I I accomplish something every day.
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:10.640
I feel good about that.
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:21.279
I I you know if a customer happens to pick up the phone and call and complain and I'm free, I come I like to take the complaint because I don't need anybody to tell me I'm doing a great job.
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.119
Tell me tell me what I screwed up at.
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:25.920
Let me see if I can fix that because who knows?
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:27.519
Maybe that's systemic.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:29.920
And if I don't know, I don't know how to fix it.
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:31.519
So I'm a realist.
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:33.920
You know, I am a genuine realist.
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:36.079
And and so, but I'm lucky.
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:45.440
Listen, Peter, if if you I don't know if you have children, but if you happen to have children and you're blessed enough to work with somebody that you love a three-year-old granddaughter.
00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:47.039
There you go.
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:48.720
Now I don't know that my grandchildren.
00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:51.599
Oh, it's it's the best thing in my world, I'll tell you that.
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:52.400
I bet.
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:53.119
I bet.
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.079
No, I know that feeling, but I'm the luckiest guy in the world.
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:58.480
I I my daughter's across the hall from me.
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:03.359
Um, you know, she grounds me, she puts me in my place always.
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:14.319
And more importantly, you know, when I can't figure out what part of my computer is broken, she can come in and I got a meeting starting and I can't get online.
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:16.799
And she rescues me.
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:24.160
But but more importantly than that, more importantly than looking after my shortcomings, she she completely is customer-centric.
00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:38.400
And I I really believe even though you know, even though so many orders come in through some type of technology, whether it's the iRep through the reps or the B2B site, you know, the phone still rings all day long.
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:42.799
And you know, we still are a hands-on, you know, we know our customers.
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:48.880
I mean, our our you know, our our account number 001 still orders every day.
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:51.440
And and I love that, and I'm proud of that.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:54.880
And and thankfully they haven't sold it to a private equity firm.
00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:57.039
So we we get that order every day.
00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:00.240
And and that's that's all of our collective nemesis.
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:15.359
You know, we if you're in the wholesale iwear business and you're a sales route, and you've built a territory of you know 150 or 200 accounts, and all of a sudden whatever equity comes in and buys nine of them.
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:21.920
You're and they're not buying the nine worst accounts, they're buying your nine best accounts because that's what they do.
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:28.880
And and that's you know, I've always said to my people, and I'm I'm fortunate, you know, I've got guys that have been with me since day one.
00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:33.279
Like Kevin Sobey has been with me for 36 years, and and I don't know where I'd be without him.
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:40.240
I got Jim Hameker running the US division 26 years, Bill Ballantine managing our sales force.
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:44.400
He's got 35 years of experience, and and 12 of them with me.
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:49.279
I I'm really lucky because I feel like I have a team that I could run through walls with.
00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:53.920
But we all know that you lose a customer, you lose an account.
00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:03.359
And it's not for anything that they did wrong or because of our product failed them, it's because the doc couldn't find somebody to buy it and took the check and left.
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:06.640
That's why I say you can never drive by an optical store.
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:08.720
You gotta knock on the doors constantly.
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:14.400
And I give them products that they can sell to because you want it, we have mostly exclusive reps.
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:24.480
I need to make sure they have a full range of products, whether it's at the lower end of the scale, the higher end of the scale, or the pediatric scale that we that we dominate in.
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:29.200
I want I want them to have something to sell everywhere because we don't have a lot of choices.
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:42.079
I believe the optician market, you know, the independent optician who's not taking insurance is poised to explode in the next you know three to five years.
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:48.559
Uh as long as we can instill some entrepreneurism into the schooling.
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:50.400
You know, I think that that's kind of important.
00:28:50.640 --> 00:29:01.599
Show an example of what it will take and what because with AI, you can focus on the skill of being an optician, and you don't necessarily have to dedicate a ton of time to business management.
00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:08.799
And I don't want to go too far down this ugly road, but optometry has done a terrible job focusing on business management skills.
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:17.680
Um, they just, you know, they've some of them have done a great job even teaching basic optician skills better than they have business skills.
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:22.640
But that's, you know, again, we're in an employee type and mindset.
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:37.680
So if we can instill some entrepreneurism, I think there's beautiful opportunities to work with, like you talked about, all up and down, you know, from children's styles, you know, right through, you know, those giant 58 eyes that you were talking about earlier.
00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:43.839
Um, I think that's I mean, I think I'm gonna affect my business personally.
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:49.680
I I I think I think anyone who thinks they know are probably a little misguided.
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:56.400
I do I do know that it's created efficiencies for us, allowed us for to do more with less.
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:58.640
Um we don't use it a lot.
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:03.440
I I I take exception when I see uh AI generated imagery.
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:09.359
I think it's I get it, we use it, we have to use it because it's economical.
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:21.039
But you know, from a it worries me because I think it has a potential of homogenizing what each individual company does and what each individual project is.
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:28.240
And and being a pragmatic person and and the economics of things, I want to save money, of course.
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:37.440
I want to put out a good image of product, but you know, I the the kids behind me pulling that frame, they were doing that in my backyard, by the way.
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:43.839
You know, so using the economics of my my property as the as the stage for our photo shoot, right?
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:47.359
We are a grassroots company, we do what we need to do, right?
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:48.880
Right.
00:30:49.759 --> 00:31:09.839
And which is really how it should be, and you know, and in my mind, you know, and you guys have built a I mean look at how much you've expanded in a 25-year window, you know, and and you know, from the beginnings to to to what you what you are right now.
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:13.279
So so what do you guys see for the rest of 2026?
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.480
Well, I hope it snows because I want to ski most of the winter.
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:24.319
Oh man, I gotta get my knee fixed and get on the snowboard again.
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:25.119
I'd love that.
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:30.000
This metal this metal hip's in excellent shape, and we'll be jumping off a mountain very soon.
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:36.559
Um, you know, optically speaking, uh this is this is the last big show uh in in Europe for us.
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:41.680
I'm going to Argentina uh for uh their first uh big show.
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:43.759
I'm gonna do that in November.
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:49.920
Uh I'll visit the Hong Kong Fair this year, as I have since the last 35 years.
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:52.000
I do not have a booth in Hong Kong.
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:54.559
I have had a booth the last couple of years there.
00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:57.279
Hasn't been particularly well attended.
00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:03.440
Um we look for Southeast Asian distribution through that network, and and that hasn't really materialized for us.
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:19.279
So I think I'm gonna just visit like I have traditionally, and then I think we wind it up and start getting ready for Mito and the new releases in January for our sales team to go out and and sell product and you know, have you know, let let everybody have a little bit of a break.
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:22.480
You know, 26 was much better than 25.
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:23.279
Right.
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:30.720
For for those of us listening on any border, you know the relationship between Canada and the United States is incredibly strong.
00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:38.240
And I'm not gonna let the people that run our countries dictate the great relationships we have with our families on both sides of the border.
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:49.519
So we, you know, hopefully there's some calmer, more civilized heads will prevail and we can get back to a normal back and forth with each other like we always have.
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:53.599
I um I have uh bailed on Vision Expo for next year.
00:32:53.680 --> 00:33:00.480
Um you know, I say it's part of my silent rebellion against what's being put up to us as Canadians.
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:25.359
We're not the 51st state, and we're you know, and I refuse at this point in time to put the resources into a country that or into a government that, and I won't get too political, but political enough to say this I'm a proud Canadian and I stand up for Canada, and we will be a fiercely independent country as long as I'm a as long as I'm part of it and as long as my family's part of it.
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:29.279
Well, I'm not gonna shy away from saying things are completely insane here.
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:41.039
I you know, there's no there's no I you know hey, there was a time when I would, you know, hide behind a a shield, but there's nothing to hide behind anymore.
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:50.319
No more there it our trade is laughable right now, and and and I don't want, you know, that's not what this podcast is dedicated to, but it is.
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:56.480
And uh I don't think any all right, a very large percentage of Americans did not sign up for this.
00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:57.279
No, I don't know.
00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:09.679
Uh and and you know, and I do that's the one hook I'm hanging a hat on, and really hoping that Canada and certainly South America and Middle America understand, you know, this is a window of time.
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:14.079
Hopefully we can clean it up quicker than the full duration.
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:15.920
So we'll see what we can do.
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:22.400
But everything much you know, it is impacting eye care in ways it shouldn't.
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:24.079
People shouldn't.
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:26.559
Don't you dare mess with people's vision.
00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:27.519
Stop it.
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:31.280
You know, you can do a lot of other crap, but I'm done with that.
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:35.679
All right, I I'll I'll I'll stop before we get too too too down that road.
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:37.760
I think we can all agree on one thing.
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:49.280
Uh, you don't have to be a mathematician, an accountant, or or or a business whiz to understand if iwear costs more to import into the United States, guess who's gonna pay?
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:51.039
The consumer.
00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:53.519
Over and over and over again.
00:34:53.760 --> 00:35:04.559
Which is even and you know, in this particular instance, we're talking about children and parents managing vision for children.
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:14.800
Anyway, before I get steam puffs coming out of my ears, we'll uh we'll head towards uh towards a wrap-up.
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:17.280
Is there any piece of wisdom that you would want to share?
00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:20.000
Anything you guys want to share as we end?
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:26.800
You know, uh listen, I from my point of view, first of all, thank you for taking the time to to speak with us.
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:36.800
And and and and you know, if if we can uh thank you very much for for including us in your podcast, Peter.
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:38.159
You know, we thank you.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:43.280
We and thanks for being patient because it's the end of the day on the last on the fourth day.
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:44.159
Right today.
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:45.679
You guys are busy.
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:50.960
I think it's fantastic that we're able to do this at all in this way from from Selmo.
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:52.559
I think it's absolutely awesome.
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:55.039
I would ask one thing of you guys.
00:35:55.199 --> 00:36:06.880
Um, if you have a chance as you begin to make these connections, um ask some people to film, and we know we love this, ask some people to film children seen clearly.
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:10.960
Um I you know everybody loves that.
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:11.599
You know I do.
00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:22.800
If if I need a good cry, uh watching a baby watching a baby put on their first pair of glasses and seeing their mom, that's a good cry.
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:24.960
I'm a big softy for that stuff.
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:32.559
I am too, but they're they're happy tears because and sometimes sometimes at a bad day or two that can change things, you know.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:33.920
So really.
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:41.199
I mean, we we we are probably the only look we can we can change lives with glasses.
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:44.159
We do every day, every minute.
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:45.519
We don't even know it.
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:51.440
We're doing our stuff and things that we've done and are actually impacting and changing other people's lives too.
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:59.119
Not just the people that we saw clearly, but the people that are around them, which is really the special part in my mind of iCare that we don't talk about enough.
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:00.639
But we will.
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:02.320
Thank you guys so much.
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:05.119
I think this has been an absolutely awesome interview.
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:06.800
Uh, enjoy the rest of Silmo.
00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:08.559
You guys are breaking down today, I guess.
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:17.440
Um breaking down, eating good food, having a great time in Paris, went to the Eiffel Tower like we do all the time, just to see what we once saw.
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:22.800
But we took somebody who had never been, and uh, you know, it's always just the awe on people's faces.
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:23.599
Oh, yeah.
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:25.519
You know, these great cities of the world.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:27.360
I mean, if you haven't been, you gotta go.
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:28.880
I mean, they're just amazing.
00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:30.559
It's on my list.
00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:31.519
I'll get there.
00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:32.800
You'll get there.
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:35.119
Thank you guys so much.
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:37.599
Uh it's our pleasure.
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:38.239
Take care.
00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:39.840
Thank you so much.
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:43.039
This has been another episode of Optometry Prophets Revealed.
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:45.440
Thank you so much for for listening.
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:47.280
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