Marriage Q&A: Conflict, Connection, Mastering Self-Control | Ft. Ashley Negron

WEBVTT
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Welcome to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. I'm
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Josh Negron, and this show is all about sharing
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lessons, ideas, and strategies that sharpen your
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thinking, strengthen your habits, and push you
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to grow beyond comfort zones. Let's dive in.
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Welcome back. Today's episode, we want to run
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through Q &A of most frequently asked questions
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that we were running across in a lot of our marriage
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studies. And so we wanted to share some of those.
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But before we get into those, I want to highlight
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one specific detail that I think probably has
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been the most impactful in transforming my relationships.
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And that's been that the reality and realization
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that you cannot control other people. including
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your spouse, however much you may want to. And
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so because of that, realizing that you can only
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change yourself. And you can only control yourself.
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Then when you encounter things like this of like
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how to engage your marriage, how to improve your
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marriage, sometimes you're going to have to take
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that shift, that focus on them and what they're
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not doing and transform it right back towards
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you with the hope that if you start to work on
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yourself, maybe it'll catch on. But then again,
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you have to be careful with that because if you
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do it for the wrong reasons and kind of like,
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well, maybe if I change. Maybe they'll change.
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That can get in the manipulation territory real
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quick. So it is a give and take. Every relationship
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has this dynamic. But that is something that's
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super powerful to remember that as we go through
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some of these, I can totally get someone saying,
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well, yeah, but you have an awesome marriage.
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Your spouse doesn't do blah. And so, of course,
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it's easy for you to say that. But again, these
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are some things that we went through that we
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saw. were really common things that you can maybe
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quickly address or quickly identify and adjust.
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So the first one, let's get right into something
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super intense. The first one is yelling and cussing
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and name calling in the heat of the moment is
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never a good approach because it reinforces the
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belief that conflict is not emotionally safe
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or productive. It's also just not very fun, right?
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So Ashley, you and I have been together going
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on 19 years together and 17 years married. Yes.
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So how have we implemented this? Like, what is
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this like in your perspective? Well, you know,
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I mean, honestly, like there's no easy way to
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say it other than like name calling and cussing
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at someone. It's just a cheap shot. Like that's
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when you. when you bust it out is when it's a
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cheap shot it does it's not it's not necessary
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it's below the belt i mean honestly like if if
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you were in a in a match of some kind and like
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that's what you did was a below the belt move
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you it doesn't work those things aren't allowed
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time out illegal right so same concept applies
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to that in an argument with your spouse you're
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gonna What is it they say? Like you're going
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to catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar,
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right? Same concept. When you are kinder and
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you use not, I mean, you can be, you can have
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emotions. I'm not saying don't have emotions,
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but there's no need for below the belt action,
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I guess would be the way to say that. Right.
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And then I think that also like transitions the
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conflict or whatever you're discussing from the
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actual topic and then just starts to make things
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personal. At that point, you're then attacking
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the person instead of the thing. I like to always,
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when we in the past have gotten stuck in defensive
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loops and things like that, I like to try to
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bring us back to the problem, us two against
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the world, us two against the problem. Sometimes
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when we're discussing a problem that maybe bumps
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up against old wounds or something that one of
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us or even both of us are sensitive with, I like
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to try it when I recognize that. I like to try
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to bring that back. Hold on, hold on, hold on.
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This is not about you. It's not about me. This
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is about this problem. And you and I are together
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in this, right? And try to reinforce that so
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that, again, you eliminate this personal attack
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component, which just adds another layer and
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puts you farther away from reconciliation, right?
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Farther away from being on the same page. Yeah,
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absolutely. No need to name call. Right. Right.
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And another thing I'll say that I've been working
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through personally is that there are times where
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in my frustration, I may feel, I mean, you and
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I have been together a really long time. I feel
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like I can be really honest with you if I'm frustrated
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or displeased, but I have recently been challenged
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to. as especially as the man and this this may
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sound unconventional the end result is me being
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nicer to you so whatever if someone like wants
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to get pissed about that that's fine but the
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idea is that especially as the man you should
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have more self -control when interacting with
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your wife because you have an extreme power to
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hurt her if you're not careful if you're maybe
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maybe you have maybe a lot of men Stereotypically,
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we're going to talk in generalities here a lot
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today, but a lot of men struggle with self -control
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in the emotional space, which typically comes
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out in anger. And if you're not careful, you
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could say things. We're not even talking about
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the physical space. That's off the table already.
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Let's just get that out of the way. But from
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a verbal standpoint, there's a lot of things
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that you can say. And you can just say, well,
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I'm just telling the truth. I'm just speaking
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my mind. I think if for me, I looked at that
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as just another level of care. What I do when
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I'm in those moments is I picture something that
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I say making you cry. And I'm like, don't say
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that. And so that's been helping me regulate
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just being snotty. Like not even like maybe in
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a fight, but just like being sarcastic or even
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if I'm just at a level of irritation, you know,
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sometimes you just clap back or just say something
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smart or sarcastic and and cutting, you know,
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that can just, you know, I don't know where you're
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at in the day. And that's just like I'm looking
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for ways like I obviously haven't cussed at you
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or name called you in many moons, if ever. And
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so I'm looking at additional ways that I can
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have. higher degree of care for you. So that's
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something that's been challenged to recently
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of just, you know, be as a man be intentional
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to treat your wife with even more care and more
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respect, which is only obviously going to be
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more in danger of maintaining that when you're
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when you're like highly frustrated or irritated
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or whatever, you know, and I think it's important
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to remember. and keep in mind when you're having
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a disagreement or an argument, like we tend to
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be the most unkind to the people that we care
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about the most because we are freer with our
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words. We are, we do feel safer to emotionally
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express the full range of emotion, right? But
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sometimes it can be unkind and uncaring. And
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so It's just super important in those moments
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to have, really honestly, like, an element of
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self -control and to keep those things in. You
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know, while it may not have been, like, cussing
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or those kinds of things or name -calling for
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us, I initially, when we very first got married,
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like, my go -to response is anger. And I would
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have a lot of really unkind, mean things rolling
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around in my head. And I would... I would just
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stop talking. I would almost like disengage the
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argument. And you're like, what are you doing?
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I'm like, well, I don't have anything kind to
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say at the moment. So I'm going to say nothing,
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right? I didn't want to hurt you and to continue
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to engage that conversation. So I would just
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say nothing. Now we've learned I've matured.
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I'm not, you know. 20 years old anymore, matured
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in that, but you've also learned to give me the
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space to process so that I maybe understand my
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emotions better and have a better grasp on them
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and actually being able to have a constructive
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conversation rather than just this verbal explosion
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of whatever the emotion may be. right and i remember
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for me i was misinterpreting that early on i
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thought you were like stonewalling me because
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you didn't want to have conflict maybe you were
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afraid of conflict and so i also was uncomfortable
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with not being on the same page with you so i
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so especially early on like i was trying to draw
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that out of you and get you to start talking
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again which once i figured out you had a whole
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bowl of horrible things to say i was like man
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i don't I don't think I want her to say anything.
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I'm good. No, stay quiet. But it was funny how
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I thought it was a non -confrontational move
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when for you, it was actually, no, you were putting
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a cork in it out of the whole, like, if you have
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anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
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You're like, okay, perfect. I'm going to have
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to shut up then because yeah. Yeah. But there's
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that element of growing and maturing and realizing
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that that was an area of weakness for me. And
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that's not how I wanted to see you or how I wanted
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to engage conflict. And so I needed to. work
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through that and and genuinely i think it was
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to not see you as the enemy like for some reason
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i think we have this in our head like when we
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have a disagreement with our spouse like we become
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on two different sides of the battlefield right
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but really it's it's The problem is over here
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and we are the army fighting the problem. And
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so we just have to change the way in which that
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we look at arguing. Oh, I totally agree. All
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right. Well, let's let's check out one of these
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other ones. Oh, this is a good one. Bottling
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up our feelings until we explode or react. Which
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perpetuates conflict cycles instead of proactive
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communication. You know, I think it's one of
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those things like when you have an emotion about
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your spouse or something that they're doing,
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not doing, you know, whatever, like maybe not
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in the exact moment because some more often than
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not in that exact moment of frustration, we are
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unkind with our words. a little bit later or
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whatever that that looks like to actually have
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a conversation and say, hey, when you did or
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did not do this, you made me feel this. Was that
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what you were intending, right? And I think that,
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you know, we had a mentor teach us that phrase.
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And I think that's been one of the best things
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for us to help reiterate the way in which that
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we felt and the way in which we received whatever
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just happened, right? And I actually think it's
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eliminated a lot of conflict for us because one
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of us will go, oh my gosh, no, no, no, no, no.
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That's not at all what I intended to say. And
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so you understand how what you said got taken
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in that moment and it can actually help reframe
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that rather than just exploding and being super
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angry and super mad. And assuming, because at
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some level you are assuming. So it's a much calmer
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way to have a constructive conversation than
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just exploding at your spouse. And it gives,
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it doesn't put them in a box either. Like it
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allows them, like you're saying, hey, when you
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did this, this is how it made me feel. Is that,
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so you're giving them, you're giving them the
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outs on like, they can be like, oh, like you
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said, oh my gosh, no, no, no, no. So it's a really
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effective tool for sure. Yeah. And, you know,
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maybe they did mean it. And that's a different
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conversation, right? But, you know, it definitely
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helps kind of reframe and head down a more constructive
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path. Because the goal of confrontation is not
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to win, right? If you're setting out to win the
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argument, you've already lost. Like, that is
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not the goal. I'm a highly competitive person.
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Trust me. I like to win. But... In the middle
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of a discussion and an argument and whatever,
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it is not the goal to win that. So we have to
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go about an argument, a disagreement, a conflict
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with the goal of restoration and with the goal
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of being on the same page by the time that this
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conversation is over and how you start the conversation
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and then the way in which that you engage your
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spouse about that. You have to go about it the
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right way. right? And I think so often, like,
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we don't want to rock the boat. We don't want
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to say that that hurt. So we just stuff it. Specifically,
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I think as women, we just stuff it and we don't
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say anything or then we start nagging and nitpicking,
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right? And it just starts to... keep bottling
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up and then on the other side of that there is
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this whole like if you would just quit nitpicking
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me i do these things for you right and so you
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have to find this happy medium and you have to
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also like not hold things against your spouse
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too you you can't you can't bring it back up
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later One of those rules of engagement for us
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is like you don't get to bring back up past stuff
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if you didn't talk about it or just really in
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general. Like it's about what's happening right
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now. Like I'm not going to hold over you what
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you did 15 years ago. Also, like my memory is
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trash and I'm not going to remember that. You
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might. I won't. Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely
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right. And we got that from our dear friends
00:13:21.220 --> 00:13:23.200
that. That if there's something that you didn't
00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:25.840
mention in the moment, that moment passed, you
00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:29.720
lost the opportunity. And then you have to do
00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:31.820
your own internal processing about it, right?
00:13:32.259 --> 00:13:35.179
And so I always tell people that I obviously
00:13:35.179 --> 00:13:38.019
don't recommend stuffing emotions, bottling them
00:13:38.019 --> 00:13:40.340
up, pressure cooking them, because obviously
00:13:40.340 --> 00:13:42.840
all of those illustrations mean that at some
00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:45.860
point those things are going to be pretty explosive.
00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:49.019
and going to be destructive. Because the moment
00:13:49.019 --> 00:13:53.659
that you finally work up the ability to say something,
00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:56.539
it's typically going to be with so much energy
00:13:56.539 --> 00:13:59.659
and emotion. And that might be that person's
00:13:59.659 --> 00:14:02.019
first time hearing about it. It's going to be
00:14:02.019 --> 00:14:04.000
totally out of the blue and crazy. And like you
00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.279
said, how you say it matters. If you bring it
00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:09.139
up in the moment, it will be so much easier for
00:14:09.139 --> 00:14:12.419
you to say with calm emotion than when you're
00:14:12.419 --> 00:14:15.820
saying it after they do it the 50th time. Right?
00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:19.440
Yep. We've talked before about how, you know,
00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:22.059
identifying what's a me problem versus a you
00:14:22.059 --> 00:14:23.940
problem, you know, so we won't go into super
00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:26.639
in depth right now. But like, for me, it's chewing
00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:29.299
noises sometimes make me go crazy. That's a me
00:14:29.299 --> 00:14:31.919
problem. Now you try to help with that. And we
00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:33.659
try to put ourselves in situations, you know,
00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:35.600
maybe have the TV going or listening to something
00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:39.019
while we're eating. And that's just wise, right?
00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:41.019
And when we're at a restaurant, it usually doesn't
00:14:41.019 --> 00:14:42.360
matter because there's enough background noise
00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:44.600
that I don't pick up on it. But there's There's
00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:48.279
times where we might be in a unique case where
00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:50.679
I'm like, is this even worth saying anything?
00:14:50.779 --> 00:14:55.080
Can I sneak away and come back without her even
00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:57.419
noticing? You know, those kinds of things. Like,
00:14:57.419 --> 00:14:58.919
is that a me problem? Is that a her problem?
00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:01.139
Do I even need to bring her into this thing?
00:15:01.460 --> 00:15:04.600
We also have the, with the 4G practice, we also
00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:07.159
have the fourth one being grace, right? So every
00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:10.080
single day. Is there someone I need to show grace
00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:12.120
for? That can be showing someone forgiveness
00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:14.240
for something. That can be showing someone grace
00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:18.059
for maybe something they did or even could do
00:15:18.059 --> 00:15:20.799
that could irritate you. And so that's a really
00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:24.220
helpful one to release daily something that might
00:15:24.220 --> 00:15:26.899
be pent up to kind of help you flush that system
00:15:26.899 --> 00:15:28.720
because that matters. I mean, so that way you
00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:31.240
don't get into bottling this stuff up. And so
00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:34.360
for my people that are the personality types
00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:38.409
that are more... adverse to conflict, this is
00:15:38.409 --> 00:15:40.470
going to be a hard one for you to not bottle
00:15:40.470 --> 00:15:43.570
up those feelings. There's personality types.
00:15:43.789 --> 00:15:45.830
There's several that handle these a little bit
00:15:45.830 --> 00:15:47.309
different that we don't have time to go into
00:15:47.309 --> 00:15:50.110
today. But it's just funny to watch how people
00:15:50.110 --> 00:15:52.750
tend to, some don't like conflict, so then they
00:15:52.750 --> 00:15:56.409
turn to manipulation to kind of try to see if
00:15:56.409 --> 00:15:58.850
they can force the person to get the hint or
00:15:58.850 --> 00:16:01.409
make the corrective behavior anyway. That's not
00:16:01.409 --> 00:16:05.220
healthy either. And the last funny thing is You
00:16:05.220 --> 00:16:07.919
know, you say how you say it matters. That matters
00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:10.899
in the words, but it also matters with with tone.
00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:13.659
You communicate so much with body language and
00:16:13.659 --> 00:16:15.720
tone. And it's funny because when somebody is
00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:17.740
like, hey, you know, why are you upset? Like,
00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:19.940
I'm not upset. You're like, well, you tell your
00:16:19.940 --> 00:16:22.080
face and your voice and everything about you
00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:24.919
right now. There's a therapist that that friend
00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:27.360
of ours that has a distinction of like harsh
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.480
startups versus a normal startup. Right. And
00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:32.840
so there's a there's a huge difference in starting
00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:35.370
a conversation with your spouse. with saying
00:16:35.370 --> 00:16:39.730
what the heck is your problem versus hey is everything
00:16:39.730 --> 00:16:43.570
okay you just you seem on edge i'm just you know
00:16:43.570 --> 00:16:47.009
like one is way more way more caring and likely
00:16:47.009 --> 00:16:50.669
to elicit a more cooperative response especially
00:16:50.669 --> 00:16:53.009
maybe if you're worried they might rip your head
00:16:53.009 --> 00:16:55.549
off then just going toe to toe with just like
00:16:55.549 --> 00:16:58.889
all right i think the other thing that So many
00:16:58.889 --> 00:17:01.789
of us want to just avoid conflict because it
00:17:01.789 --> 00:17:05.130
is uncomfortable. And it's, you know, we play
00:17:05.130 --> 00:17:08.329
all of these scenarios over in our minds over
00:17:08.329 --> 00:17:11.509
and over and over, right? But how often is it
00:17:11.509 --> 00:17:13.869
actually completely different than that scenario
00:17:13.869 --> 00:17:15.730
that you've worked up in your head? Like, it
00:17:15.730 --> 00:17:17.890
goes way better than whatever it is that you've
00:17:17.890 --> 00:17:19.549
worked up, whatever conversation that you've
00:17:19.549 --> 00:17:21.150
had with yourself, that you've practiced with
00:17:21.150 --> 00:17:24.019
this other person. It goes so much better than
00:17:24.019 --> 00:17:25.660
that. But you know how you get better at conflict
00:17:25.660 --> 00:17:29.079
and being better at resolving conflict? You get
00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:33.539
uncomfortable being uncomfortable, right? It's
00:17:33.539 --> 00:17:36.440
reps. It's things that you have to just do it.
00:17:36.579 --> 00:17:40.319
And so I think that that probably became like
00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:42.759
a mindset shift for us of like, it is okay to
00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:45.599
have conflict. Like, you don't want someone you
00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:47.769
never have conflict with. That's also... boring,
00:17:47.910 --> 00:17:51.130
right? It's that whole back to the whole sparring
00:17:51.130 --> 00:17:53.430
partner thing. Like you want someone that you
00:17:53.430 --> 00:17:57.549
can go toe to toe with, but do it in a kind manner.
00:17:57.730 --> 00:18:01.490
Don't do it below the belt and do it in the moment
00:18:01.490 --> 00:18:04.690
or within, you know, I don't know, 24, 48 hours,
00:18:04.750 --> 00:18:06.430
whatever you decide, whatever you determine your
00:18:06.430 --> 00:18:10.890
rules of engagement are like that, do it in that
00:18:10.890 --> 00:18:13.109
timeframe and get comfortable being uncomfortable.
00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:16.319
And then also, I mean, that also means that,
00:18:16.339 --> 00:18:18.779
that it's wise to work on how to receive that,
00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:22.920
right? Like you also have to work on being able
00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:25.880
to have, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Having a listening
00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:29.000
ear to, to when someone's and, and people pay
00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:31.759
attention to that thing. You get what you reward.
00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:34.619
So there was one book that we read where they
00:18:34.619 --> 00:18:39.200
pointed out that if you're, if you exhibit behaviors
00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:41.900
of being willing to listen when someone's willing
00:18:41.900 --> 00:18:44.880
to share with you, then they are likely to share
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.140
with you more. And so if you demonstrate the
00:18:48.140 --> 00:18:51.079
ability to listen to your spouse when they're
00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:53.180
upset, when they need to vent, when whatever,
00:18:53.380 --> 00:18:55.599
any of those things, then you will get more of
00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:58.019
what you reward. And that will be, that will
00:18:58.019 --> 00:18:59.480
be constructive for both of you, I would say.
00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:04.680
Oh yeah, that's a good one. All right. So dismissing
00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:08.019
each other's feelings when we disagree or feel
00:19:08.019 --> 00:19:11.140
differently instead of trying to understand each
00:19:11.140 --> 00:19:14.079
other at a deeper level, including our triggers
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:17.799
and fears. Now, this one's fun because, again,
00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:22.339
generalities, as men, men like to think of themselves
00:19:22.339 --> 00:19:26.099
as more logical and analytical, and women get
00:19:26.099 --> 00:19:29.059
the rap for being more emotional. Now, I probably
00:19:29.059 --> 00:19:31.859
triggered like... half of YouTube at this point.
00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:35.579
The point being is I use that specific language
00:19:35.579 --> 00:19:38.759
on purpose because we're all both in certain
00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:42.619
arrangements. So what ends up happening is, regardless
00:19:42.619 --> 00:19:45.500
of what gender we're talking about, is that one
00:19:45.500 --> 00:19:47.779
of them is expressing frustration. This happens
00:19:47.779 --> 00:19:51.740
both ways for us, and actually likely probably
00:19:51.740 --> 00:19:55.000
in the reverse because I'm the blue, more sensitive
00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:58.720
one, and you're the red nut. You know, you share
00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:00.799
your frustration, your emotions, your venting.
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:05.480
And the other one is like, this is stupid or
00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:08.759
doesn't make sense or whatever it is. Right.
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:11.440
And so it's funny. We're laughing because it
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.079
happens all the time. And it happens, yeah. I'm
00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:17.480
the one that says this is ridiculous and yeah.
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:19.700
Right. And I have friends, it's the other way,
00:20:19.740 --> 00:20:22.359
right? The lady's venting and frustrated and
00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:25.180
they're just like, this isn't logical. I mean,
00:20:25.180 --> 00:20:27.279
you really just need to get over it. And so the
00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:31.339
temptation is to, if you can just explain to
00:20:31.339 --> 00:20:34.740
them why they shouldn't see it this way, then
00:20:34.740 --> 00:20:37.640
it all goes away, obviously. Why wouldn't it?
00:20:38.299 --> 00:20:41.859
That's not how it goes. And that person. Ends
00:20:41.859 --> 00:20:44.720
up just feeling like you don't care. You're not
00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:48.079
interested. All the things. Right. So how do
00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:51.579
you not dismiss? Yeah. And so how do you do that?
00:20:51.869 --> 00:20:55.369
I'm laughing because this is still one that we
00:20:55.369 --> 00:20:59.009
continually work through. I think in those situations,
00:20:59.230 --> 00:21:03.150
I have to stop myself from thinking about all
00:21:03.150 --> 00:21:05.170
of the ways that I could solve your problem or
00:21:05.170 --> 00:21:08.450
why I think that this is ridiculous or why I
00:21:08.450 --> 00:21:10.450
think that these emotions are an overreaction
00:21:10.450 --> 00:21:14.369
or whatever that my very logical brain says that
00:21:14.369 --> 00:21:17.450
it should be. And I have to stop and actually
00:21:17.450 --> 00:21:21.099
listen. what you're saying sometimes I have to
00:21:21.099 --> 00:21:25.500
reframe and ask questions and say okay tell me
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:28.440
more about this or hang on a minute stop say
00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:31.359
that again I didn't understand that or maybe
00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:34.500
like even having you like think about it in a
00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:37.680
different way asking asking questions because
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:42.039
sometimes I'm like this is so such an emotional
00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:44.690
response like I don't know how to how to not
00:21:44.690 --> 00:21:47.769
go this is this is crazy but really for me it's
00:21:47.769 --> 00:21:50.750
like there's always an underlying something going
00:21:50.750 --> 00:21:54.289
on so what is the underlying thing if we can
00:21:54.289 --> 00:21:58.410
actually get to the heart of the emotion there's
00:21:58.410 --> 00:22:00.990
something like there's a fear buried there there's
00:22:00.990 --> 00:22:05.410
an anxiety buried there there's a A wound, probably.
00:22:06.069 --> 00:22:09.750
Potentially. Yeah. There's always more to it
00:22:09.750 --> 00:22:11.849
than what lays on the surface and what we actually
00:22:11.849 --> 00:22:16.170
give to the other person. So because I care about
00:22:16.170 --> 00:22:18.910
you and I care about your emotions and those
00:22:18.910 --> 00:22:21.170
fears and those anxieties and all of those things,
00:22:21.269 --> 00:22:23.430
we try to figure out and get to what they are.
00:22:23.589 --> 00:22:28.789
Because rarely is the thing that you are emotionally
00:22:28.789 --> 00:22:32.089
having a moment about the actual. part of the
00:22:32.089 --> 00:22:34.329
problem if that makes sense and sometimes we
00:22:34.329 --> 00:22:37.430
have to you know talk through to get to to figure
00:22:37.430 --> 00:22:42.109
that out you know i i have some fairly distinct
00:22:42.109 --> 00:22:45.269
memories of of these these are probably the arguments
00:22:45.269 --> 00:22:47.349
that stick out the most in my mind when i think
00:22:47.349 --> 00:22:50.849
back over about them is is times that i am not
00:22:50.849 --> 00:22:54.710
empathetic to whatever emotion or feeling that
00:22:54.710 --> 00:22:56.849
you are having or to a response that you are
00:22:56.849 --> 00:22:58.910
having because i'm like that is so far removed
00:22:58.910 --> 00:23:01.859
from the response that i would have But I think,
00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:05.839
yeah, it's back to a thing about being empathetic.
00:23:05.859 --> 00:23:09.039
And when we're not empathetic and when we lose
00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:11.660
the ability to see a situation from the other
00:23:11.660 --> 00:23:14.819
person's perspective, that's when we get stuck
00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:17.220
in this, well, this is just stupid. You just
00:23:17.220 --> 00:23:19.519
shouldn't feel that way. And that does nothing
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:23.279
to bond us or to work through the problem or
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:26.400
to help just even process those emotions. So
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:29.099
there's two things I think about in that everybody's
00:23:29.099 --> 00:23:33.069
different. triggers or frustrates one person
00:23:33.069 --> 00:23:36.910
has a likelihood to maybe not bother the other
00:23:36.910 --> 00:23:40.849
person, right? So the things that make me freak
00:23:40.849 --> 00:23:42.869
out are probably not gonna make you freak out.
00:23:43.049 --> 00:23:46.190
But then that also means the inverse is also
00:23:46.190 --> 00:23:50.750
true. So there are definitely times that you're
00:23:50.750 --> 00:23:53.869
upset by something and I've had the same exact
00:23:53.869 --> 00:23:57.750
thoughts, right? Where I'm like, I mean, I think
00:23:57.750 --> 00:23:59.849
you'd be a lot happier if you didn't let this
00:23:59.849 --> 00:24:03.029
bother you. Inside voice only, please. Right?
00:24:03.190 --> 00:24:05.490
And so it's one of those thoughts where when
00:24:05.490 --> 00:24:08.250
I've been in that situation, I encounter it with,
00:24:08.390 --> 00:24:10.950
okay, I mean, we've been in this spot before
00:24:10.950 --> 00:24:13.329
the other way. And so I'm like, okay, hold on.
00:24:13.430 --> 00:24:15.150
And like you said, just trying to understand
00:24:15.150 --> 00:24:19.250
it from the other point of view. And the second
00:24:19.250 --> 00:24:22.069
thing was a funny story about an irrational fear,
00:24:22.230 --> 00:24:26.049
right? So I wanted to watch Gravity, right? This
00:24:26.049 --> 00:24:29.049
movie was going to be epic, outer space. And
00:24:29.049 --> 00:24:32.420
you were like, no. Absolutely not. Under no circumstance
00:24:32.420 --> 00:24:34.359
are we watching that. I'm like, what in the heck?
00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:37.640
What is going on? I didn't know. But you have
00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:41.039
a fear of outer space, right? I could label that
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:46.559
an irrational fear of outer space because I would
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:49.259
say your fear of outer space is probably equal
00:24:49.259 --> 00:24:53.680
to my fear of spiders. Now, the odds of me encountering
00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:56.930
a spider. Versus the odds of you accidentally
00:24:56.930 --> 00:25:00.789
tripping up some stairs, finding yourself in
00:25:00.789 --> 00:25:03.829
a SpaceX shuttle, and then getting locked in,
00:25:03.950 --> 00:25:06.789
strapped in, and find yourself in space. It's
00:25:06.789 --> 00:25:10.390
pretty low odds, right? But that, again, that's
00:25:10.390 --> 00:25:13.549
funny. And we laugh about it. But that still
00:25:13.549 --> 00:25:16.809
doesn't... None of that logic removes any of
00:25:16.809 --> 00:25:19.470
the fears attached to it. So because of that,
00:25:19.549 --> 00:25:23.079
we don't know when... Those wounds from the past
00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:25.279
or those other experiences that you don't always
00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:27.799
have the context or awareness of could cause
00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:30.400
that reaction in somebody else. And then if you're
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:33.400
dealing with somebody with really explosive reactions
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:36.640
or a traumatizing past, then that gets a little
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:39.200
more serious because a lot of therapists will
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:42.140
tell you that when someone encounters a very
00:25:42.140 --> 00:25:45.099
traumatic experience, then a part of them freezes
00:25:45.099 --> 00:25:47.299
at that age. And a lot of those things can...
00:25:47.470 --> 00:25:49.269
can take place when they're still a child. So
00:25:49.269 --> 00:25:52.430
if you think someone is being childish or reacting
00:25:52.430 --> 00:25:55.009
childish to something, there's actually something
00:25:55.009 --> 00:25:57.609
to that. Research suggests that they could be
00:25:57.609 --> 00:26:00.509
in association with circumstances of that type
00:26:00.509 --> 00:26:03.289
or something similar that could bring them back
00:26:03.289 --> 00:26:05.470
to that age. And that's why they're reacting
00:26:05.470 --> 00:26:07.109
in that way. So it's just important to have the
00:26:07.109 --> 00:26:09.730
awareness. And that's why the end of that says,
00:26:09.829 --> 00:26:11.970
you know, it's important to try to understand
00:26:11.970 --> 00:26:14.390
each other at a deeper level. Where is this coming
00:26:14.390 --> 00:26:17.829
from? Like you said, what doubt, what anxiety,
00:26:17.970 --> 00:26:21.289
what fear is this tapping into? You know, like
00:26:21.289 --> 00:26:24.089
I've met a lot of people who have a strong fear
00:26:24.089 --> 00:26:26.450
of abandonment, which, you know, goes back to
00:26:26.450 --> 00:26:28.410
parents and things like that. Like, you know,
00:26:28.410 --> 00:26:31.009
if you felt like you could never trust someone
00:26:31.009 --> 00:26:32.990
that you loved, well, you don't think that's
00:26:32.990 --> 00:26:35.210
going to affect your marriage when everyone else,
00:26:35.210 --> 00:26:37.789
when you were a child, left you? made you feel
00:26:37.789 --> 00:26:40.910
like they left you. And so you could interpret
00:26:40.910 --> 00:26:43.490
some things that your spouse does through that
00:26:43.490 --> 00:26:46.509
lens and then be fearful or doubtful of the relationship.
00:26:47.130 --> 00:26:48.930
and things can be uncertain and things like that.
00:26:49.049 --> 00:26:52.750
So it's funny to laugh about in just a conversation
00:26:52.750 --> 00:26:55.029
like we were talking about, but also there's
00:26:55.029 --> 00:26:59.509
layers to this and it can be very, very disruptive,
00:26:59.710 --> 00:27:02.509
especially if it comes up all the time. So I
00:27:02.509 --> 00:27:06.730
think we only have time for one more. So yeah,
00:27:06.910 --> 00:27:10.480
this is a good one to end on. It is... Suggesting
00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:13.279
becoming complacent and just expecting each other
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:16.519
to know they're loved rather than making appreciation,
00:27:16.740 --> 00:27:19.220
affection and connection a way of life. So like,
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:20.859
you know, date nights, those kinds of things.
00:27:21.400 --> 00:27:25.299
It is really easy to drift into not doing anything
00:27:25.299 --> 00:27:28.240
intentional, right? To not to just, well, I mean,
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:29.779
of course, you know, I love you, that kind of
00:27:29.779 --> 00:27:31.839
thing. Talk a little bit about your thoughts
00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:34.319
on that, Ashley. Yeah, and we've kind of touched
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:36.619
on this topic a little bit in a couple of other
00:27:36.619 --> 00:27:41.950
podcasts as well, but. Um, it's so easy to just
00:27:41.950 --> 00:27:44.690
live life side by side and to not intentionally
00:27:44.690 --> 00:27:48.990
communicate, to not intentionally invest in your
00:27:48.990 --> 00:27:52.369
spouse. You know, I, we make a point every single
00:27:52.369 --> 00:27:56.309
day, actually at any point in the day when we're
00:27:56.309 --> 00:27:58.869
like telling each other goodbye or moving into
00:27:58.869 --> 00:28:01.309
different spaces or hanging up phone call or
00:28:01.309 --> 00:28:03.089
any of those kinds of things, like we make a
00:28:03.089 --> 00:28:06.069
point to say, I love you. Even if it's like.
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:09.299
We're in the middle of something and like, you
00:28:09.299 --> 00:28:11.700
know, maybe it even is conflict and we're in
00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:12.920
the middle of it, but we can't resolve it right
00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:15.380
then and there. It's still like, hey, I still
00:28:15.380 --> 00:28:19.099
love you. Because the reality is like tomorrow
00:28:19.099 --> 00:28:23.019
is not promised and you don't want the last thing
00:28:23.019 --> 00:28:26.240
that you said to someone to be something that's
00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:30.180
unkind, that it's hurtful to them, that the last
00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:32.099
memory is something that's very, very painful.
00:28:32.259 --> 00:28:34.720
Like I would far rather my last words to you
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:38.880
be, hey. I love you. And sometimes I'll realize
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:40.940
like in the middle of a day, like I don't even
00:28:40.940 --> 00:28:43.079
know if I've said that to you or not yet. And
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:44.940
so I might just randomly text you and be like,
00:28:45.059 --> 00:28:47.380
hey, in case you didn't know, love you. I don't
00:28:47.380 --> 00:28:51.839
ever want that to be an assumption. I want to
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:55.680
continually tell you and reassure you that I
00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:58.319
love you and care about you. I can be madder
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:00.299
than mad at you, but that doesn't change the
00:29:00.299 --> 00:29:02.680
fact that I love you. And so I think, you know,
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:04.759
it. You always hear and laugh about these stories
00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:07.160
about these, you know, old men that never tell
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:08.940
their wives they love them. Well, I told you
00:29:08.940 --> 00:29:11.759
once, like, if it changed, I'd let you know,
00:29:11.859 --> 00:29:15.380
right? Unfortunately, we have short -term memories.
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:19.079
Also, we like to know those things, specifically
00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:22.720
as women. Like, it's an element of being pursued
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:27.519
to be told that all the time. Hey, I love you.
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:30.650
Hey, you look really good today. Hey. You're
00:29:30.650 --> 00:29:32.990
having a really good hair day. Hey, whatever.
00:29:33.289 --> 00:29:37.329
Way to handle whatever, right? Like praise and
00:29:37.329 --> 00:29:41.009
adoration for your spouse isn't a way in which
00:29:41.009 --> 00:29:45.230
to bond with them, to continue to build that
00:29:45.230 --> 00:29:49.210
foundation, to put marbles in the jar, to take
00:29:49.210 --> 00:29:51.849
your pick of analogies, right? Because the reality
00:29:51.849 --> 00:29:54.490
is, you know, okay, thinking about the marble
00:29:54.490 --> 00:29:57.029
in the jar, like I'm going to say things that
00:29:57.029 --> 00:29:59.089
are going to take marbles out of the jar. And
00:29:59.089 --> 00:30:03.490
so how do I, by continually putting things into
00:30:03.490 --> 00:30:07.970
the jar, into the bank account, whatever, I have
00:30:07.970 --> 00:30:10.609
this foundation that when I do make a withdrawal,
00:30:10.910 --> 00:30:14.769
I'm not emptying the jar. Because I've continued
00:30:14.769 --> 00:30:17.089
to build, I've continued to put that in there.
00:30:17.250 --> 00:30:19.670
And, you know, we're... We have really short
00:30:19.670 --> 00:30:22.950
-term memories. Like, I can logically know that
00:30:22.950 --> 00:30:25.569
you love me and that you care for me and that
00:30:25.569 --> 00:30:27.950
you, you know, love me and appreciate me more
00:30:27.950 --> 00:30:31.210
than you did 19 years ago. But I need to know
00:30:31.210 --> 00:30:35.130
that. It's things like randomly sending flowers.
00:30:35.630 --> 00:30:38.009
Maybe it's things like taking out the garbage
00:30:38.009 --> 00:30:41.180
without... being asked or it's breaking down
00:30:41.180 --> 00:30:43.940
the boxes without having to be told for the 27th
00:30:43.940 --> 00:30:46.200
time because we all know everybody's got that
00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:47.880
one person who does the breaking down of the
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:49.720
boxes and the one that chucks them into the garage
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:54.220
i'm the second one um it's you know do things
00:30:54.220 --> 00:30:57.539
it doesn't have to be these big extravagant things,
00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:02.859
right? It can be the little minute things of
00:31:02.859 --> 00:31:06.000
the day. It can be seeing something that you
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.500
know that your spouse needs that needs to be
00:31:08.500 --> 00:31:10.779
done and just doing it without having to be asked.
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:15.380
Like nothing will fill my tank more than just
00:31:15.380 --> 00:31:17.519
randomly finding something done and being like,
00:31:17.559 --> 00:31:21.799
hey, thanks. Say thank you. Acknowledge it. Don't
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:24.470
just go, well, finally he did something. Right?
00:31:24.529 --> 00:31:27.029
That's bringing up the past. No, no. Acknowledge
00:31:27.029 --> 00:31:30.970
now. Because the other thing too is like as we
00:31:30.970 --> 00:31:33.490
continue to acknowledge those things, we all
00:31:33.490 --> 00:31:36.670
loved to be loved and to be adored, right? So
00:31:36.670 --> 00:31:39.329
when I'm doing something that fills your love
00:31:39.329 --> 00:31:41.089
tank and you tell me that, I'm going to just
00:31:41.089 --> 00:31:44.990
keep doing it. I want that praise. I want that
00:31:44.990 --> 00:31:48.529
adoration. So I'll keep doing the thing that
00:31:48.529 --> 00:31:50.269
you tell me that you like, whatever that that
00:31:50.269 --> 00:31:53.660
is, right? So communicate. those things with
00:31:53.660 --> 00:31:56.319
your spouse. Look for ways to serve them. I mean,
00:31:56.339 --> 00:31:58.839
that's really what it is. Sometimes we just have
00:31:58.839 --> 00:32:01.619
to open our eyeballs. You have to actually intentionally
00:32:01.619 --> 00:32:04.099
walk through the house and look for those things
00:32:04.099 --> 00:32:06.359
or intentionally walk through the day and go,
00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:09.859
ooh, what if, right? If we've communicated that
00:32:09.859 --> 00:32:12.460
we're having a really rough day or I have had
00:32:12.460 --> 00:32:15.500
a day and I'm done, nothing is better if you
00:32:15.500 --> 00:32:18.920
went, hey, well, what if we just picked up Chipotle
00:32:18.920 --> 00:32:21.119
on the way home, right? I don't have to cook.
00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:24.900
It's those little things of thinking about the
00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:27.920
other person and then verbalizing what those
00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:30.660
are or through an action. Yeah, I thought I thought
00:32:30.660 --> 00:32:33.700
of a couple of things that are interesting. Like
00:32:33.700 --> 00:32:37.059
there's plenty of humans listening to this that
00:32:37.059 --> 00:32:39.720
one or both of their parents didn't say I love
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:42.539
you enough and you carry wounds from that. Right.
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:45.099
So if that's true, why would you want to perpetuate
00:32:45.099 --> 00:32:47.720
that with your spouse? Right. You know what it
00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:51.339
feels like to not get that. that we all crave
00:32:51.339 --> 00:32:54.259
and want. Like they said, what is that quote?
00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:57.900
Every man wants to be fully known and fully loved.
00:32:58.039 --> 00:33:01.079
So say I love you. It costs you nothing. Just
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:03.400
say it. The other piece is studying your spouse.
00:33:03.559 --> 00:33:06.900
You kind of touched on it. Good spouses are ones
00:33:06.900 --> 00:33:10.700
that study their spouse. It is arguably one of
00:33:10.700 --> 00:33:12.779
the most important, if not the most important
00:33:12.779 --> 00:33:15.140
relationship in your life. Why would you not
00:33:15.140 --> 00:33:18.200
be an expert on it? Like, I don't know about
00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:20.720
anyone listening, but if you have any fixations,
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:23.119
whether that be, I don't know, maybe you know
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:26.140
how to really make an amazing coffee and you've
00:33:26.140 --> 00:33:28.440
got all the gadgets to make sure you get that
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:31.480
espresso shot just perfect or whatever, whatever
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:34.779
your fixation is where you are like, man, tape,
00:33:34.779 --> 00:33:38.579
tape between the eyeglasses expert at, you should
00:33:38.579 --> 00:33:41.000
be an expert in your spouse, which also means.
00:33:41.789 --> 00:33:43.569
You know, there's things like love language and
00:33:43.569 --> 00:33:45.589
things that you can learn. Why would you not
00:33:45.589 --> 00:33:47.849
want to be an expert in those things? The more
00:33:47.849 --> 00:33:50.470
that you can feed into those things, the more
00:33:50.470 --> 00:33:52.630
of a blessing you're going to get. Like you said,
00:33:52.730 --> 00:33:54.910
you kind of illustrated it like, you know, the
00:33:54.910 --> 00:33:57.130
emotional bank account scenario. It's a pretty
00:33:57.130 --> 00:33:59.509
common analogy that way you, I always want to
00:33:59.509 --> 00:34:02.029
be on the positive end of that bank account with
00:34:02.029 --> 00:34:04.569
my relationships, right? So you try to look for
00:34:04.569 --> 00:34:07.670
ways to invest and to put them first, to think
00:34:07.670 --> 00:34:10.570
of them and invest in them first. So yeah, become
00:34:10.570 --> 00:34:13.630
a student of your spouse. That is such a powerful
00:34:13.630 --> 00:34:15.789
thing that you can do. And again, like you said,
00:34:15.829 --> 00:34:17.989
I love that you said this and I didn't say it
00:34:17.989 --> 00:34:22.489
because I say it so often that start small. This
00:34:22.489 --> 00:34:25.349
doesn't need to be grand gestures of like, hey,
00:34:25.349 --> 00:34:29.230
I booked us a cruise to Italy. You know, like
00:34:29.230 --> 00:34:31.670
if that's your deal, great. But you can start
00:34:31.670 --> 00:34:34.510
with just the day to day, just the things that
00:34:34.510 --> 00:34:37.110
cost absolutely nothing and then work your way
00:34:37.110 --> 00:34:40.929
up. But that being said, these small things have
00:34:40.929 --> 00:34:45.650
a much higher yield more often than doing a grand
00:34:45.650 --> 00:34:49.050
gesture every six months or something. And the
00:34:49.050 --> 00:34:51.530
last thing I'll say is, remember, any of these
00:34:51.530 --> 00:34:54.250
things that we talk about, without intentionality,
00:34:54.349 --> 00:34:56.730
you're just going to be carried down the stream,
00:34:56.889 --> 00:34:59.730
down with the current of nothing. That complacency
00:34:59.730 --> 00:35:03.170
where you just end up doing nothing because it
00:35:03.170 --> 00:35:06.269
legitimately is easier to do nothing. than it
00:35:06.269 --> 00:35:08.909
is to be active. And so you end up being this
00:35:08.909 --> 00:35:11.130
silent partner that's not engaged with your spouse.
00:35:11.289 --> 00:35:14.010
And then you hear people say. well, we just drifted
00:35:14.010 --> 00:35:16.050
apart or like, I don't know what happened. I
00:35:16.050 --> 00:35:17.769
don't know who they are anymore, blah, blah,
00:35:17.769 --> 00:35:20.110
blah. And so just that encouragement to you,
00:35:20.170 --> 00:35:23.110
it takes effort. It takes intentionality and
00:35:23.110 --> 00:35:26.269
it takes awareness to get off of the device or
00:35:26.269 --> 00:35:29.769
whatever to focus on your spouse, to do something
00:35:29.769 --> 00:35:32.050
different, to swim against that current, to use
00:35:32.050 --> 00:35:34.889
that analogy consistently over time, just being
00:35:34.889 --> 00:35:37.809
intentional and doing it that way. And so that
00:35:37.809 --> 00:35:41.090
will reap huge benefits in your marriage if you
00:35:41.090 --> 00:35:43.630
let it. So, all right. I think that is it for
00:35:43.630 --> 00:35:46.570
this time, Ashley. I think that's good. Yeah,
00:35:46.610 --> 00:35:48.489
perfect. We've got more we can cover another
00:35:48.489 --> 00:35:51.170
time. Yeah, for sure. So give us some feedback
00:35:51.170 --> 00:35:54.269
if you like this topical bounce back and forth
00:35:54.269 --> 00:35:57.250
on a theme like marriage. So yeah, I know we
00:35:57.250 --> 00:35:59.690
enjoyed it. Thanks for listening to the Optimizing
00:35:59.690 --> 00:36:02.130
Beyond podcast. Remember, growth happens when
00:36:02.130 --> 00:36:04.530
you take action. So subscribe, share this with
00:36:04.530 --> 00:36:06.530
a friend, and most importantly, put what you
00:36:06.530 --> 00:36:08.869
learned into action. Because as we know, daily
00:36:08.869 --> 00:36:10.610
anything changes everything.