What Happens When Empowerment And Accountability Finally Work Together

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Welcome to Optimistic Voices.
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I'm your host, Yasmin Vaughn.
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In our last episode, we began an important conversation with the executive director of Maya Midwifery, Asia Blackwell, about a complex journey that her organization went through, this challenging split that they had between the U.S.
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Space Organization and the locally led birth center that they partnered with in Guatemala.
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We explored how their initial vision was rooted in trust, in the importance of centering the work of Indigenous midwives, but also the difficult dynamics that emerged around transparency, decision making, accountability, and the really difficult decision that they had to make to part with their local organization, but still try and prioritize local leadership.
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So today we'll shift our focus from what happened to what was learned.
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And Asia will share some insights on how organizations can build more equitable and sustainable partnerships, moving beyond good intentions to create true safeguards and shared accountability.
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And we'll delve into power dynamics between the global north and the global south and discuss what a healthy, decolonized partnership looks like for the future of community-led maternal health.
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So, Asia, thanks again for joining us.
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Thanks for having me back.
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I'm excited to continue this conversation.
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But I'm sure that you've been spending a lot of time thinking to yourself, what could we have done better?
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What could we have done to prevent some of these challenges?
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Were there opportunities that we missed?
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Were there systems that we should have created?
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And I'm wondering if you would be willing to share any of those thoughts.
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Yeah, of course.
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So looking back on our experiences and kind of how the organization was a run previously and the relationships we held with the association on the ground, for me, I believe one of our biggest mistakes, um, and I hear it, unfortunately, I hear it time and time again.
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I think it was focusing on a few relationships as opposed to ensuring relationships across the board.
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And I think that also goes with listening, right?
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I think we listened to a few and not to everyone, right?
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We had this idea of the Guatemalan Board of Midwives.
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And then the US really only spoke to the Guatemalan Board of Midwives without checking in with the entire association and everyone else to figure out perhaps more of the realities that were taking place.
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I think that comes with empowerment.
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I think we focused on empowering those few midwives as opposed to equitably empowering all of them.
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And like I said, unfortunately, I've heard in different situations where this is repeating itself in a lot of different organizations across Guatemala, even other organizations supporting midwifery.
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We hear this idea of, or maybe it's, I don't know, maybe it, I think it's a power dynamic again, of this idea of having Westerners come in to aid.
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You know, we're already looking at perhaps maybe an idea of paternalism, or, you know, maybe it's this white savior complex, or, or maybe this idea of, you know, othering communities and saying, you know, like indigenous communities are inherently different from us.
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But if I find one, right, this is kind of the aspect.
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Oh, there's one who I've given this opportunity to, and I've seen that she is really intelligent.
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I hear it time and time again.
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In Guatemala, we have a term pilas.
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It means smart, it means intelligent.
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Uh, she's she's pilas.
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It really means batteries.
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Like she has the batteries to power.
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I don't know.
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Um, but she's the one.
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It's very much the same thing.
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I love that.
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The energizer bunny.
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Yeah.
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Pila, she's pilas, you know.
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And then it's unfortunately it gets it gets run with, right?
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So you have a group come in, they provide one opportunity to a few people, and they say, wow, that person was so smart.
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I'm gonna go ahead and give her the next opportunity because I could just see that she was so smart.
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Right.
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And then she gets the next opportunity, and she's more empowered and she gains more skills.
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So then they continue to say, wow, she is just incredible.
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I'm gonna continue to support that one person.
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And then it becomes this idea that, and especially in regards to to midwives here in Guatemala and how we how we see different operations, that she becomes the one midwife who's smart, right?
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Not this idea that I can equally empower and provide opportunities to all of them.
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And I will see that all of them have that potential and all of them can become bilas, or all of them can meet these different standards because they're given the opportunity.
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But now I'm focusing my opportunity on this one that I have identified as Blas.
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Right.
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And then it's kind of a snowball effect of that one person just, you know, rolling down the hill and getting all of the opportunities that aren't given to the others.
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So it's again, it's not looking at the whole group, it's identifying a few and saying, these are the ones, these are the ones, as opposed to saying they can all be the ones if they're provided equal opportunity.
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And I think that's a huge issue we see, and we've actually talked to other organizations that we saw it starting to repeat itself.
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And then you have this idea of like, oh, in this community, it's these three midwives who are the midwives, you know, the best ones.
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But we're always trying to encourage them to say, but is it really that's the case?
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Or are those the ones who now for years have been receiving the opportunities?
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What if we give the other midwives opportunities?
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And you'll very quickly learn that they can rise to those positions as well.
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Um, so definitely listening to others, right?
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Not only providing them with opportunity, but listening to what they're saying, not only talking to the ones that are B less or the ones who are identified, but talking to all of them because they will give you a more rounded, um kind of realistic look at what's happening.
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I think listening to other people's concerns is of course super important in terms of accountability.
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I think in the end, we're almost blinded by our relationships, blinded by the sense of trust that we thought we had built on friendship.
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Right.
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And we even unfortunately, and I look back now and say, I contributed to that because we had people on the outside saying that they weren't feeling secure in continuing to make donations and majorly in-kind things that they wanted in order to continue to move forward, they wanted more measures of accountability.
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They wanted lists of midwives signed by individual midwives of each item they were receiving.
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They wanted all of these different measures in place to continue to support.
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And I was fresh to the organization.
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I was very much just kind of repeating what I'd heard from the board.
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And it came down to this idea that I think unfortunately was exactly this line of accountability versus um kind of empowerment or how those work together, right?
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I think the idea was more focused on empowerment.
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So the approach that the board took and that what I was encouraged to take was defending the midwives and trying to continue to empower them, but without having means of accountability.
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So we had concerns vocalized to us, and essentially we said the midwives have to focus on being midwives.
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You know, they're already doing a lot to try to meet all of the requirements of people that people are asking for them.
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And this is way too much.
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They can't do this, they need to focus on being midwives.
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So we actually had a relationship discontinue in that moment because we didn't at that point in time agree with the measures of accountability that others were asking for on behalf of the midwives.
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And I think that was an error from the from the get-go.
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I think we should have taken a step back and analyzed the situation and tried to set down those personal relationships for a moment and this idea of defending maybe because there are friends and we have 25 years of history and we've done so much together and really acknowledge the concerns of other people.
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Wow, that's so interesting.
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Yeah, I I think back to what you said in the first episode about building something slowly, being slower to trust, um, and how maybe that could have played a little bit of a role in that dynamic.
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But I mean, your point about accountability, I think um a lot of organizations uh find like monitoring and evaluation and financial accountability to be cumbersome.
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And to be fair, they are very cumbersome things to carry out.
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Um, it is it is very difficult to build an evaluation system, it's very difficult to build these tools and build these things.
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But it also um sometimes accountability can be misunderstood as control.
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So looking back on what you were able to do, how do you think about accountability now and how it can coexist with partnership?
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Yeah, I absolutely believe it has to co coexist with empowerment.
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Um I think you're absolutely right, though.
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I think accountability can feel like a top-down mechanism, um, that it is control or or um maybe maybe even coercion, if I want to go that far.
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Um, but this experience has definitely shifted our understanding.
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Um, and I think everyone on our board can can now see that um, even those who had these long-term relationships of over 25 years, um, I think accountability is not about restricting autonomy, but it's about creating shared responsibility.
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Um, true accountability means setting clear expectations, transparent communication, and mutual ownership of outcomes.
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Right.
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And I think um a lot of these processes seem more formal, um, but I think they're necessary.
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And I think we've learned why they're necessary moving forward, right?
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When I talked originally about aspects of trust and how trust works, um, I mentioned that in the in the West we're we're easier to trust, that we oftentimes take people for their word.
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A lot of the relationship held between Maya Midwifery and the association on the ground was verbal, right?
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It was based on those relationships.
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It was based on physical um meetings in person of devoting time to that.
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But when it came to things like grant agreements or an MOU or anything like that, nothing was formalized, nothing was signed, nothing was written down.
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It was all verbal over the history of the organization, right?
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So having these things now as we move forward, um, you know, it is, it does make you question, you know, why do you not trust us?
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We get that a lot.
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Do you not trust us?
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Like, why do we have to write all this stuff down now?
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And it's it's not about not trusting, it's about having systems in place and and following best practices.
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I think the midwives who have made it through this transition and and are at the new association realize the importance of having things written down now.
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Um, you know, we have also this idea of, and we oftentimes have to repeat ourselves, like, this is not personal, right?
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Don't take these things personal.
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It's not a personal reflection about what we think about you.
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It's just safety mechanisms that are now in place.
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Um and I think through education, right, like those education modules that we started in the beginning, and as we continue to educate on how these organizations, nonprofit organizations in Guatemala should work, how they need to legally work.
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Um, I think that's where the empowerment lies in informing them of how it needs to be run, educating them on why, right, what we do to put these measures in place, how they can continue to be a part of these measures and ensuring that they're in place.
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Um I think in that way, um, empowerment really thrives.
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And our local partners and the midwives themselves do feel trusted to make the decisions that that are in their hands, right, about community health and well-being.
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Um, but they also now feel more supported with these mechanisms, which do ensure integrity and alignment with our shared goals, right?
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We say we now have a communal mission, um, that we're two organizations with two legal um registrations and two separate countries, but we're all working towards a common goal.
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Um and that we're we're both both parties are responsible for ensuring that goal and the mission moving forward.
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Um, so I think really accountability can be a framework that really enables empowerment as opposed to constraining it.
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Um and I think you can't really have a sustainable organization without accountability, right?
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I I think about coming to the coming into this organization in 2021.
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And I always thought, you know, this is this is an incredible model.
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It needs to be expanded.
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You know, why are we just in the mom region?
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Why aren't we having and replicating this model with the Quiche population or the Kakchiquel population or the Pukumchi population?
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You know, what's holding us back?
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Um, and I think it's now very clear that that lack of accountability and lack of compliance and lack of understanding of best practices of nonprofits in Guatemala is is absolutely the reason that for 25 years this model hasn't been been able to expand.
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And I think now we're in a really good place to very quickly be able to provide these same opportunities to another Maya population.
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Wow.
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So not just a lesson learned, but uh a lesson that will help you be able to expand.
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Um really talk about a Phoenix rising from the ashes.
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That's fantastic to hear.
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Yeah.
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Uh one thing I was really struck by that you said earlier uh was the idea that you were so focused on these pilas, these these women who were seen as very smart, very um uh very good at their jobs, you know, primed to be able to step up and to lead and to to run with everything.
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Um, and your focus on the few in leadership probably also had an effect on how they then led in their organization.
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They weren't going out of their way to empower many people.
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They were also probably working on either empowering themselves or empowering very few.
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And so I wonder if there are other um lessons that you've learned about how history, culture, and power dynamics between the global north and global south have shaped partnerships, even when everyone's intentions were good, like they were in this situation.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Um I think back to a comment I received from a board member about the original kind of formation of what they thought was an association on the ground, right?
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They were informed it was an association, the constitution was up and running.
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But I remember hearing, well, that original, you know, the original four midwives, I believe it was four, maybe five, who signed that document were selected because they could sign their name.
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And unfortunately, you know, there is this balance between accessibility, between um requirements, legal requirements when it comes to signing something.
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Um but I think that is where it all started.
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Right.
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I think this idea of them being able to take on the role of a board of administrative leadership simply because they were the ones who again had the opportunity, everything comes back to opportunity, had the opportunity to attend school and learn how to read and write.
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Um, they were the ones who signed the document.
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And then there was no emphasis along the way to ensure a turnover within the board, I guess, to ensure diversity, to ensure others.
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And I think maybe that was the the first error is kind of eluding the ability to read and write to those who should have power or authority, right?
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I I mentioned in the other, in the other episode um ideas of leadership coming from the West and coming from the Maya context.
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And, you know, as we've thought through it now, I think this idea of, you know, power dynamics that we have in the United States, ideas of paternalism, unfortunately, thinking that, you know, our our definition of leadership of placing midwives as administrators is the better concept or the one that should be implemented.
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Um, I think at that point in time it was maybe just a lack of understanding, right, about really what my the Maya worldview or the cosmovision um says about leadership and midwives as as leaders within their community without taking on these administrative roles.
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Um but it really was it was with a desire to create a decolonial model, absolutely.
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Um, but again, I think I think we tried to mold kind of the administration of the nonprofit or the association on the ground to what we thought it should look like coming from a US context.
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Um, you know, down to down to the ability to read and write to be able to take on a position like that.
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Um, and I think realizing or recognizing um some of these dynamics does require a lot of humility and constant reflection and a lot of dialogue, right?
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Some of these things, and and it can it can be a sensitive subject because, and I really want to repeat, all of this history of the organization was done really with so much love and so much passion.
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And a lot of this work really came from the bottom of so many people's hearts.
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Um, and you know, contexts are always changing.
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I education is always changing, concepts of decolonial, you know, international work is always changing and what that looks like.
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Um so I think, you know, I think all of this kind of plays into this question.
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Um, you know, intentions were good, right?
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I think that's at the at the bottom of at the end of the day, that's what I'm trying to say.
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Intentions were good.
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Um, and I think, you know, now what we've learned and what we're hearing today brings us back to these ideas of leadership and always talking to the local community, speaking to the midwives themselves, the larger group of midwives, and figuring out what that means, what that looks like, what they're interested in, right?
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Because as I've mentioned now, midwives inherently are leaders, right?
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They don't need to be put in charge of administration to become leaders.
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And when we impose this system on them of saying, if you want to be the leader, you have to be the administrator, it creates a power imbalance amongst the midwives themselves.
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And I think at the end of the day, that's what happened, right?
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We imposed a structure of trying to have a midwife board, which threw off the power balance of Maya Indigenous midwives.
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Um, and then this weird sense of authority was equated to, I don't know, the ability to be able to control and personally benefit and treat others poorly, and unfortunately became more like a dictatorship than it did kind of the structures of administration that we have in the United States or what we'd we'd hope to see with nonprofit organizations.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah, I think it's clear that you all were trying to lead with the best intentions.
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Um and really it it's quite a lesson to think about the idea of working off of a flawed definition, um, or at least a definition that is not fit into a different context or culture.
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So, what does it mean to be a leader?
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Well, a leader in the United States is this.
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Of course, everyone knows that's what it means to be a leader.
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Um, I'm reminded of uh we just decided to build our own um poverty simulation experience, and we were interviewing the local staff that we work with about um poverty in the families and children that they they work with.
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And one of our uh staff members who's both Sierra Leonean and American encouraged me to ask the question, Well, what is poverty?
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And when he said it, I was like, that's ridiculous.
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You know, the UN definition of poverty is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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And everybody knows that this is what that means.
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Um, but I was like, okay, I'll throw that in there.
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And it was possibly the most eye-opening question I've ever asked.
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Um it completely helped me understand uh a context of how things were different in Sierra Leone, how they defined poverty, what different levels of poverty mean, um, and and all sorts of things that now um completely have changed how we approach the work that we do.
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Um, but it was just a simple question that I never would have thought to ask.
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Um, and so it's it's it's interesting to hear from you all about a question of well, how do you define leadership being something that's so deeply shaped uh the conversations that you've had.
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Right.
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And it's also, you know, I mean, I'm sure it was in your your case as well.
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It's it's it's been challenging because, you know, we want to respect those ideas, but of course it's not, it's not how the majority of donors or foundations think.
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Right.
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So now it's educating them and trying to ensure that they understand this model moving forward and how, you know, maybe they're assuming that the midwives are no longer leaders because they're not the operational director, right?
00:30:21.220 --> 00:30:32.900
And understanding why that is an incorrect assumption and why they continue to be leaders and decision makers within the organizations as the midwives of the organization.
00:30:33.380 --> 00:30:36.500
So it's very much kind of it's about education, right?
00:30:36.580 --> 00:30:45.140
But it's been challenging and it's been hard to educate and it's hard to change those aspects or notions of of leadership that others hold.
00:30:47.060 --> 00:30:48.420
Yeah, absolutely.
00:30:48.580 --> 00:30:48.820
Yeah.
00:30:48.980 --> 00:30:51.460
A lot of, I think, the work that has to be done.
00:30:51.620 --> 00:31:00.420
Um as a as a US-based nonprofit, you're the middleman between donors and the local organization.
00:31:00.980 --> 00:31:04.820
And uh you are the the person who has to translate almost.
00:31:04.900 --> 00:31:16.580
You're you're communicating cross-culturally because there's a a culture of how donations and nonprofit and social sector work is supposed to look here in the United States.
00:31:16.660 --> 00:31:24.740
And then there's the local context of what's going on, and so trying to reconcile the two is a challenge that I've seen a lot of nonprofits try to navigate.
00:31:24.820 --> 00:31:26.180
We are trying to navigate.
00:31:26.580 --> 00:31:27.700
Yeah, absolutely.
00:31:30.740 --> 00:31:41.060
So I wonder um if you have any advice for organizations that are also coming with the best of intentions.
00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:44.500
They're trying to pursue locally guide models.
00:31:44.740 --> 00:31:53.380
Um, but do you have any practical advice on what you should do to build trust and safeguards?
00:31:55.220 --> 00:32:05.220
Yeah, I think um, and you know, I I want to bring it back to the the foundation, the original um, you know, intentions of the organization.
00:32:05.380 --> 00:32:07.460
It was always based on listening.
00:32:08.100 --> 00:32:19.540
Um and I think listening is incredibly important um when it comes to local-led models, but again, ensuring this aspect of equity, right?
00:32:19.940 --> 00:32:24.500
Listening equitably or trusting equitably, right?
00:32:24.820 --> 00:32:32.340
Um is talking to other people who are involved, um, other people, you know, other stakeholders, right?
00:32:32.500 --> 00:32:34.980
Really ensuring that you're hearing from different parties.
00:32:35.140 --> 00:32:48.660
I think if I can if I can reflect again, I think the community knew what was happening way before the the MMI US board knew, way before any of our staff members knew.
00:32:48.820 --> 00:32:56.500
Had we simply, you know, spoken to the community, let alone the other midwives in the association, we would have learned way beforehand.
00:32:57.060 --> 00:32:57.460
Right.
00:32:57.700 --> 00:33:05.140
Um, so really trying to get in more involved locally with the stakeholders, with other people on the team.
00:33:05.380 --> 00:33:11.540
Um, if there is some sort of hierarchical model, I think you have to.
00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:12.820
I think you have to listen.
00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:22.580
You know, you can't, if you have some sort of director on the ground or or whatever the model might be, you still have to check in with everyone else.
00:33:22.820 --> 00:33:35.060
Um because of course, what perhaps is being re reported even from your the top of your hierarchical structure could be quite different than the realities on on the ground.
00:33:35.140 --> 00:33:37.780
Um, and that's absolutely what we learned, right?
00:33:37.860 --> 00:33:47.380
We were always only checking in with the board, and we're hearing a completely different version of the reality from what everyone else was experiencing.
00:33:47.620 --> 00:34:04.900
Um so really when we when we reflect and we reflect on all of these initiatives and all of these trainings that we started to provide, and all of this guidance and suggestions and and trying to steer the original association to the best practices, what we were really trying to do was ensure equity.
00:34:05.380 --> 00:34:06.500
in the workplace.
00:34:06.740 --> 00:34:16.260
And I think if you can focus on equity, um, I think you you can surely avoid a lot of these, a lot of these things.
00:34:16.420 --> 00:34:22.500
I think, you know, like I mentioned, it wasn't, it wasn't MMI that started the revolution.
00:34:22.659 --> 00:34:24.420
It was the midwives themselves.
00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:24.980
Why?
00:34:25.139 --> 00:34:30.980
Because we started to ensure equity and they started realizing their workplace was not an equitable workplace.
00:34:31.219 --> 00:34:43.059
And they started asking for different measures and different changes to ensure that they were receiving full rights and benefits as members of an association, as employees of the association.
00:34:43.300 --> 00:34:43.539
Right.
00:34:43.699 --> 00:34:45.940
So at the at the end of the day it was equity.
00:34:46.099 --> 00:34:50.740
It was equity that started the whole process and has gotten us to where we are now.
00:34:52.740 --> 00:34:53.699
Absolutely.
00:34:54.260 --> 00:35:03.139
I'm reminded of uh Dwayne Elmer has a uh a model for what he calls cross-cultural servanthood uh in the book of the same name.
00:35:03.299 --> 00:35:13.619
Uh and it it is like being open, being accepting, trusting, learning, understanding, and then finally being able to jump in to serve and support others.
00:35:13.779 --> 00:35:19.539
So I think that's that's totally in alignment with uh what you're saying about listening equitably.
00:35:20.339 --> 00:35:24.739
What do you think uh equitable partnerships look like?
00:35:27.379 --> 00:35:31.379
Um so I think this has changed for us, of course.
00:35:31.539 --> 00:35:40.980
Um I think a healthy partnership for us now balances autonomy and accountability and and trust and transparency.
00:35:41.539 --> 00:35:44.739
It's definitely grounded in mutual respect.
00:35:45.379 --> 00:39:38.129
Again where where local leadership does have the decision-making power um and again where we expand that definition of leadership um but that there is shared responsibility for our outcomes um equitable equitable partnerships um I think acknowledge and actively kind of navigate the power imbalances that exist um and of course prioritize the voice of the communities that they serve um I think it's really important the aspect of communication right that it's continuous um that there are feedback loops right and that feedback is constructive um and that we can and I think it goes along you know again with with this idea of trust that we can share both successes but also challenges um openly amongst both organizations um we believe that our partnerships are not hierarchical um but they're collaborative and they're adaptive they're rooted in shared values and purpose right ours we have a very long history we've had several transitions throughout the last what is it now 20 almost 27 years um but we really reflect on our history we don't try to erase aspects of our history but we ref we reflect and learn from them and we've developed a lot of our values and our purpose based on things that we've encountered and confronted.
00:39:38.929 --> 00:39:48.609
Right now we're we're like you said we're still new in this process right all of this you know the original the the doors of Nai Shahao opened on the 14th of May of this year.
00:39:48.769 --> 00:40:03.089
So we're still learning and we're still trying to reflect on our experiences and move forward in the right foot but we've um have already created and are implementing what we consider to be an integrated governance model.
00:40:04.049 --> 00:40:10.849
And this is very much led by and of course for the indigenous Miami people.
00:40:11.569 --> 00:40:22.129
It's based, you know, sometimes these structures are like triangles, which is very of course you see the hierarchy there or circles you know a lot of times when we try to have integrated models they're more like a circle.
00:40:22.289 --> 00:40:37.009
We've really tried to base ours off of the sacred tree of life which here in Guatemala is the seiba it's also the national tree of Guatemala it's said to connect kind of the the Shivalba, the underworld to this plane to the heavens, right?
00:40:37.169 --> 00:40:39.649
So connecting um everything.
00:40:40.209 --> 00:40:48.529
We feel like it's a really comprehensive way to honor interconnectedness, balance and and this collaboration between partners.
00:40:48.769 --> 00:41:00.129
It links us again to the ancestral wisdom or traditional knowledge of the Comadronas, the Maya midwives themselves, to community well-being and to organizational structures, right?
00:41:00.289 --> 00:41:05.489
And like most models we say it's a living system as we can also represent with this model of a tree.
00:41:05.569 --> 00:41:10.209
It's a living tree and it really needs mutual nourishment.
00:41:11.569 --> 00:41:16.689
Really like you know everything kind of pulls again with this new model back to the Maya cosmovision.
00:41:16.849 --> 00:41:29.089
So like the Seiva, the sacred tree, we center life-giving relationships that sustain and guide the flow of knowledge, resources and care across all of the different levels.
00:41:29.249 --> 00:41:35.409
And that way that we can you know we can ensure that every part of the whole contributes to and draws strength from others.
00:41:35.889 --> 00:41:51.329
In this model, though we can't you know we can't visually look at it right now but we have the midwives the indigenous comadronas as the canopy of the tree the local administrative team then becomes the branches.
00:41:51.649 --> 00:41:55.089
The Guatemalan board is the trunk of that tree.
00:41:55.329 --> 00:42:18.769
The US administrative team are the lateral roots and the US board is that grounding tap root it's a model that really acknowledges the importance of also our audience including our donors, our foundation our support people and those are represented as being the sun and the water and the nutrients that are really you know nurturing this tree.
00:42:19.009 --> 00:42:36.289
And then we demonstrate the impact that together all of these components can make really the the role of a tree in general right is our impact on the ground and the community and that's you know the shade and the fruit and maybe the the herbal medicine that the tree is providing.
00:42:36.689 --> 00:42:44.129
That's all the work with community women with community members, pregnant women, infants, um, youth etc.
00:42:44.529 --> 00:42:51.009
So that's kind of our model now as we kind of work in partnership towards this impact.
00:42:53.329 --> 00:43:55.169
Wow what a beautiful what a beautiful metaphor but also um just a really beautiful practical application of that of uh really living out uh your beliefs in that way that's that's just amazing um we also have a tree as a part of uh so the metaphors for the work that we do so um being firmly rooted uh having good roots so you can withstand the storm um I just love that yeah well I think it's time uh for the last question that we ask our guests which is what keeps you optimistic oh there's a lot of things that keep me optimistic it's been challenging it's definitely been a challenging few years it's definitely not something I thought I was signing up for when taking on this role it's also it wasn't something I felt like I could just walk away from um and I don't think many people would have stayed in this position and tried to confront everything that we had to move through.
00:43:55.729 --> 00:44:15.009
But I'm I'm really glad that I did and one of the things that really keeps me optimistic about this work about our shift in the model um about how we're implementing the program on the ground with Naeshao is now what the midwives come to us to say, right?
00:44:15.169 --> 00:44:30.289
It's not that they were mistreated or that they heard this thing, you know, they're coming to us we just we just actually had a few board members come to Guatemala and and stay at the birth center and and interview and speak with the midwives to see how things were going.
00:44:31.569 --> 00:44:45.489
And many of the midwives reported that they now wake up in the morning and they're honestly excited to go to work at Nyeshahau and to fulfill their their shifts that they work.
00:44:47.169 --> 00:44:49.409
And I think that's incredible.
00:44:49.649 --> 00:45:16.129
I think you know again so much of this process and this transition we were worried about how it was going to appear to outsiders you know having this slight shift having a board that's not the midwives themselves of course for for transparency for conflict of interest um for for ensuring that we knew we couldn't have paid employees on the board but we tried to involve other local leaders and people who could help expand our mission.
00:45:16.849 --> 00:45:41.009
And now we hear from the midwives that they are so happy that they are separate from the board and that they are valued for their own role and that they feel like there now is equity at the birth center that all of the midwives are at the same level all recognized as leaders as opposed to some of them leaders for being administration and others not.
00:45:41.969 --> 00:45:51.649
So those are the things that keep me optimistic is hearing from the midwives knowing that you know like I mentioned it was it's it's been a hard three years.
00:45:52.449 --> 00:46:10.769
And they were even more directly involved than I was and again this idea of resilience you know I have we we had conversations with with foundations as this process was happening and one of the concerns of one of our main foundations was are they even going to want to continue?
00:46:10.929 --> 00:46:13.649
Like why would they continue after all of this?
00:46:14.289 --> 00:46:14.609
Right.
00:46:14.769 --> 00:46:44.689
And the fact that they do and that they're now excited to continue that now there's just a an energy shift at the birth center that I I promise you every single person who's gotten to come and visit the new birth center and see the new operations they always cite it that it's different it's more it's happier it's more welcoming the midwives all contribute the midwives in trainings or in meetings they all speak out.
00:46:44.849 --> 00:46:49.089
They're no longer scared to raise their voice or to share their opinions.
00:46:49.329 --> 00:47:01.569
They're all you know now you know each of them have their own community in terms of mobile clinics that they report on they now with confidence can individually stand up and share out their statistics from that community.
00:47:01.729 --> 00:47:06.529
And these were things we didn't see before because before everything was controlled by those three.
00:47:06.769 --> 00:47:14.609
Even we had foundations in the beginning say, we don't know how we can continue to really support you because the people we knew on the ground were those midwives.
00:47:14.849 --> 00:47:18.849
The relationships we had the friendships we formed were with them.
00:47:19.329 --> 00:47:19.569
Right.
00:47:19.649 --> 00:47:44.129
And that's when we also learned that they had refused to let any of the other midwives speak to other donors or foreign visitors or you know all of these power controls along the way but seeing the new team continuing to empower them and having people come back and visit and see the new operations, meet the new midwives, hear from all of them that's I think what keeps us optimistic.
00:47:47.089 --> 00:47:56.689
Wow that's just incredible um you guys have had a hard journey and uh I'm so excited to see what comes next for you.
00:47:57.969 --> 00:47:59.409
Thank you so much, Yasmin.
00:47:59.569 --> 00:48:07.249
I like to say you know we hear this comment a lot it's all over the place now like oh it's a women's world and I think that's absolutely true.
00:48:07.489 --> 00:48:14.369
But I also think and I like to try to shift that and now say it's an indigenous woman's world.
00:48:14.689 --> 00:48:34.769
And I think more and more we're receiving global recognition from the United Nations from different aspects globally the World Health Organization we're receiving more recognition of Indigenous peoples as guardians of life of biodiversity right the midwives have always said they care for mothers and also the Mother Earth.
00:48:35.489 --> 00:48:50.529
And I think now more than ever people are are helping to recognize and uplift the voices of Indigenous midwives and we're we're so excited for this for this future you know it's an Indigenous woman's world I love it.
00:48:50.769 --> 00:48:57.009
Oh my gosh wow well thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Optimistic Voices.
00:48:57.169 --> 00:49:01.169
It's a big messy world out there and there is no shortage of need.
00:49:01.329 --> 00:49:19.329
But we here at Optimistic Voices believe that with radical courage radical honesty and radical collaboration together we can change the world thanks for listening if you enjoyed this episode please subscribe share it with others post about it on social media or leave a rating and review.
00:49:19.489 --> 00:49:30.369
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