How to Continuously Learn and Grow in Marketing Ops with Raja Walia

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Hello everyone.
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Welcome to another episode of OpsCast, brought to you by MarketingOps.com, powered by the MO Pros.
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I'm your host, Michael Hartmann, today joined by Naomi Liu.
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Naomi, I think this is one of the few times you just, just you and me,
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so I know.
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Just the, just the two of us.
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Just the two.
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Okay.
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I don't, I don't think we
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need me singing.
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Can't harmonize with you.
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No, wouldn't, I'm not sure that would end well.
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So we'll just cut it.
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Um, like I even had, couldn't even really do much in that, that MarketingOps.com rap song that Mike just reposted recently.
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So, uh, anyway, so let me move on then.
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So, joining us today, uh, we're gonna be talking about how to learn and grow in your marketing ops role.
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Uh, and joining us to talk about that is Raja Walia.
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Raja, I should have asked you before, like, did I pronounce it right?
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Well, you can get to,
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yeah, no, you're good.
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Yeah, no, you're good.
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Yeah.
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Raja Walia is good.
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Uh, a lot of people call me Raj or Raja.
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Um, I will tell you, a lot of people just call me Raj, so.
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Got
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it.
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Okay.
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That's whatever works.
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So Raj is the founder and principal consultant of GNW Consulting, a marketing automation CRM consulting company.
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GNW is the latest in a series of marketing and marketing operations, and, Automation consulting organizations that he's been a part of.
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And, uh, I think he had a little bit of a stint in, uh, in-house in the marketing role.
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But, uh, Raja welcome and thank you for joining us today.
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Yeah, no pleasure to be here.
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And actually I've never had an in-house role, so it's, ever since my career kicked off, I've always been in consulting outside of like, you know, whatever jobs you get after college and whatever comes up, uh, whatever comes up and whatever jobs will accept you after you get your degree.
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Uh, but I've always been in consulting, so ever since.
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Oh, okay.
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Career.
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All right, there you go.
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So I, there's failure number one for me day.
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So, well, at least first one on this.
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It's probably not the first one on the day, but, um, so, okay.
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So I really, I think this is gonna be a good one for the folks who are our listeners and, um, because I think a lot of folks, I know I get a lot of questions, we see'em in the MarketingOps.com community about like, how do you learn, what should I learn next?
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That kind of stuff for our folks.
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But before we get into that, um, So we just highlighted a little bit about your career.
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Why don't we, you share a little bit about, you know, your career, um, and, uh, you know, what led you to stay in consulting the whole time.
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And, and maybe one of, one of the things I know I'm interested in is, are there sort of, sort of points in your career where you sort of could have gone down path A or path B that you, you know, kinda led you this way and or are there people that you think were significant in, in kind of helping you through your.
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Yeah, no, absolutely.
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Um, so can I give you a background by myself?
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Uh, me, myself, I started consulting, I wanna say in 2011.
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Uh, I worked for a consulting agency at the time, and that was actually just when marketing automation was kicking off.
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At that point in time, I don't think Marketo had branded themselves of Marketo, but they had just rolled out certification after the first year of consulting.
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Uh, so I was one of like, I think the first 10 pilot members of the original, original, original Marketo Certifi.
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Exam or whatever, whatever essentially that was, that was called.
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Um, uh, real quick, the second part of your question, as far as what made me stay in consulting, so
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yeah.
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So because I know I, I started in consulting, different kind of consulting way back in my career and then I.
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I shifted away and I always, I think, I always thought I would go back to consulting and then never did.
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And,
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you know, consulting's, one of those things is that once you, either you hate it or you like it, and I always, and I just gravitated, gravitated towards it mainly just because there was so much.
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Uh, differences, right?
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There's so many companies that you work with.
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There's so many marketing strategies, there's so many flavors and so many builds that you learn across platforms.
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So, you know, I originally started with like, you know, Marketo and then I slowly expanded to HubSpot, Eloqua.
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At one point in my career, I was certified in Pardo and Marketing Cloud, and I'm active certified in the Salesforce and Dynamics.
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you know, slowly kind of go down the, uh, realm of strategy.
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And I think one of the best parts about consulting program me was that it was never the same.
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I think one of the things I always felt going in-house is you market one product.
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Maybe we have expansions, there's upsells, and it gets, and it gets a little bit like, uh, I wanna say it gets a little bit repetitive, right?
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Because essentially you're marketing one product and the life cycles are always anonymous, closed, one where are upsell opportunities.
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But with consulting you get the idea, you get the benefit.
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I wanna say not even with the.
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Um, well, you have to have ideas actually, with consulting, you have to have ideas for multiple organization, whether it's B2C or whether it's b2b.
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So I think that's one of the things that just made me stay in consulting for the longest time, because when one project stops, another project starts.
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and sometimes there's 10 projects that starts and you have to be very quick on your feet and you have to be very intuitive enough to know what a company's or what, what a company's goals is.
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Goals are, sorry.
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And how does that tie into their current tech tech?
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How are they leveraging it?
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Um, so first when I started, um, you know, I think everyone had every strategy in the world, right?
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They would, they would talk about like lead scoring as this mythical thing.
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And they're like, you can score.
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Leads and you can organize them and people will know that the points make them more, the points the better.
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And now I think, uh, kind of tie into the topic is like, you know, what, what makes, uh, like how do, how do you grow and your marketing ops career is like, we've come to a point where you really have to kind of like know your shit.
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Like there is no more pie in the sky strategies anymore.
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Like you have to understand technology cuz if you.
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you might be able to pitch yourself and you might be able to sell yourself, but as soon as you start actually doing the work, people will catch on relatively quickly that Hey, you know what this is, this is someone that has either been doing it for a small amount of time or it's just been bullshit, like from the get go.
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So, and I think that's one of the cool things about consulting is cuz you're constantly getting knowledge checked.
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You're constantly getting, does this person actually stand behind what they're saying and do they know how to do it?
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Like actually physically do.
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Compared to not do it.
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And I think that's one of the things that kind of keeps me on my toes is because even though I founded G N W Consulting and you know, we've grown exponentially over the last four years as an organization and we have clients that are with, you know, various marketing automation platforms, not just one is that you get knowledge checked and you have to be, you have to do your due diligence and make sure your knowledge is on point.
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If not a person that just started that's been doing more research will find out very quickly if you're, you know, if you're just blowing hot smoke, uh, or if you're blowing like hot air their way.
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Yeah.
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So I think that's one of my favorite parts about consulting.
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That's interesting.
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Um, I'm, so, I'm curious going a little bit off track here, but I wanna follow up on something.
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So I'm curious when you, that that being checked for knowledge that aligns with my experience in being consulting, right?
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So you're sort of forced to stay up with stuff.
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I'm curious, do you get called in.
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Either clients, new clients or existing clients when they're considering new, new technology.
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So, um, well, it's not too off track, but we get called in at various stages of, with our clients.
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So it could be they, they could be in the vendor selection process.
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And since we have clients that, you know, have different platforms, they'll ask us, which is our favorite one, and then based off on their skillset, like if someone's more techn.
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Advanced and you know how to write sequel phrase and run code and you're a B2C customer.
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Well, hey, guess what?
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You know what Marketing cloud might be the king.
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But if you have someone that's a very good mar marketing strategy person, but you know, it might be like an ops role or they might not be very technical.
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Then you have other platforms like Marketo, which is huge that comes in the play, right?
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So we will either get pulled in from a vendor selection, we're trying to do this, what is our tech stack to, we have this tech stack.
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What do we do with it?
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Like, are we optimizing like the standard consulting type of questions people get asked, right.
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So, yeah.
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Well, it's
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it, sorry.
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It was so, it was top of, not sort of top of mind for me because I had a, I was in a conversation earlier today with somebody talking about, uh, who was, it was actually is a MarTech vendor was asking for input on like, how should we be selling to marketers or marketing tech people and, and, um, Like they were struggling and I was like, I think part of this is because.
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Yeah.
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Marketing tech or marketing ops people tend to be a, they're really busy, right?
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And so like to get their attention alone, right?
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So they're, they're gonna be wanting to get, move stuff along.
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And we're used to sort of evaluating stuff.
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Like I, I was, we got in the conversation about if I asked for a demo, I want a demo.
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I don't want you to be asking me a bunch of questions.
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And at the same time, so we actually had a couple of episodes on this, uh, like a year ago on, like, we actually talked about how to sell to mar marketing ops.
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And then we, we actually had a couple sales people.
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Wanted to counter that, which was great.
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We actually had a really good conversation, but at the same time, I'm like, the reason I'm saying that is because I know that your demo's gonna be like a really clean Right con controlled environment.
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Yeah.
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Of data and SY in a, that is like, this is the best case scenario, but I'll also be looking like, okay, I want to know.
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given what I know about my shit storm, right.
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in my environment.
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Right?
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What or what, you know, maybe it's not even a shit storm, but I know that there are issues or nuances or difference in the way we go to market than the way they think about it.
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That, um, I, you know, I, I can pretty much go like, okay, I get the.
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The strategy or the potential of this, but I'm not sure I could, it, it will match up with us right now.
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Right?
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Or I
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might, yeah.
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And, and see that that what you said right there is probably like one of the most key things in the modern day marketing automation space, right?
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Like knowing what I know and knowing.
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What it is like, does that strategy match up with the technology and does that, does that strategy match up with, from a business objectives?
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Right.
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So when you, when you wanna grow in your ops role, whether you're starting, you have to make sure that c, I mean, the tech landscape is so huge and people will sell you the most.
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Pristine conditioned environments.
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And then when you get it and you start setting it up, either data isn't there.
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And that as something, as consultants, you just know, right?
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Like Naomi said it like, you know, you said it like, it's just, you just know, like that is not the current state of things right.
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For yourself.
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And I think when you grow into your ops role, that's something that is, is, is tenure.
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Like you just, you just learn that over time, rather than kind of believing a flashy demo.
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Yeah.
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Mm-hmm.
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what did I say?
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What I always say, um, Michael, is, uh, I wanted you to present your deck backwards.
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Ah,
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yeah.
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That's really, that's, that's the secret with
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Naomi.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Present your deck to me backwards cuz I wanna see the end Yeah.
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I don't need to see what Fortune 500 companies also utilize your
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platform Totally.
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I was like, I don't need to see your logo page.
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Like I don't care.
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Not right now.
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Like at some point if we get further along, maybe that makes
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a difference.
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You know, it's funny, it's funny cuz when I actually do pitch to extra companies and you know, they wanna know what about our consulting, like, you know, packages and services.
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The second slide is a bunch of logos and like, all right, this is my validation page.
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These are the companies we've worked with and we.
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From that one, right?
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Like this is, the logos are just there to give you some sort of, you know, some sort of easement.
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Like, okay, it's just not like, you know, a a, a mom and pop shop or something.
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Or it's not, it's not something like local or something that you made up.
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Like these are actual companies that have trusted us and we move off.
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It's like a one second slide.
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And that's how it's exactly its pitch.
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So I have
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actually gotten that question like, a couple of linked, like a bunch actually of people on LinkedIn being like, do you ever want to see logos on a presentation?
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And I'm like, well, actually, yes.
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Yep.
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And it comes when I'm trying to do internal selling.
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Exactly.
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And I'm trying to tell the people who hold the purse strings, right.
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These are what our competitors or people in our industry are using and we need to do the same or similar, right?
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So that's when I do want to see logos, especially if they're competitors of ours are in the same
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landscape.
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That is exactly the same for me, right?
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Mm-hmm.
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like it's, it is important.
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Just not, I don't, I think it's important at the different time.
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So I'm curious.
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So Naomi, I'm.
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So what Rod said about, um, like seeing new stuff all the time, having been in consulting, like that resonated with me and like I, but I'm in a, I'm in a big.
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Like in an organization where I think his, his description of like the same, basically the same stuff.
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Selling the same stuff, the same audience, right.
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No, no, no.
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I'm not saying it's boring or anything,
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I'm just No, I, I, no, but I think I'm curious though, cuz Naomie, you work for, you also work internally, but you just, even like you work with across multiple brands, right?
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Mm-hmm.
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So do you, do you feel like you get some of that kind of creativity of.
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Applying stuff in different ways because of that for sure.
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Because every business unit has its own needs, right.
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And, um, not all of the requirements are gonna be the same.
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So we are, we are, my team is run like a small, like an internal agency for.
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The company definitely.
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Um, it sometimes feels like you're working for a bunch of different companies, but, you know, trying to align everything under the same, um, end goal, so,
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yeah.
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All right.
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Well let's, so let's get into some of the things that we we're gonna talk about, Raj, with you, about, um, kind of how you like.
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Because you've been in consulting for a while, um, and you're sort of forced to keep up with stuff.
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Maybe going all the way back, I think you mentioned this, like you were in, call it an og, right?
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With with Yeah.
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was it Marketo or whatever, but yeah.
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What, like what have you seen kind of in the landscape of marketing automation or MarTech in general, right?
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What do you see that.
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you've seen that has come along and gone, gone through that way, and what have you learned and what do you think we should be looking, you know, how do you think people, whether they're in-house or consulting, can then kind of try to.
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keep up with what's going on.
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Yeah, no, I mean, a lot from the very, very starting, I think if you go back to like 2011 when Mark, uh, when Mark Tech or marketing operations, even before MOPS was a mops, right?
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Like before even the word mop, marketing operations consisted everyone were like marketing manager, and you had a, you had a platform that you used,
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you know?
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Yeah.
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I, I was an e-marketing person for a while, like whatever that was like, nobody uses that anymore.
00:14:45.414 --> 00:14:46.794
I was a marketing manager.
00:14:47.634 --> 00:15:00.084
Yeah, you, I'm not sure where the one was or where the two began or where the three began or anything like that, but I was originally a marketing manager one, and this was before Marketo had programs and before, you know, marketing operations was a thing.
00:15:00.504 --> 00:15:12.355
But one of the things that I've seen kind of change drastically is that, you know, circle ba, what I was saying is like the knowledge of something new can be kind of overhyped and fluffed up.
00:15:12.444 --> 00:15:15.054
And I think there were a lot of strategy that.
00:15:16.014 --> 00:15:20.365
Existed that no longer kind of applies or is kind of like what we were saying is.
00:15:21.745 --> 00:15:22.704
Yeah, obviously, right?
00:15:22.704 --> 00:15:24.534
Like the whole pitch deck backwards.
00:15:24.804 --> 00:15:37.644
We know in what you're selling us, and it's the hardest thing to do as to sell to marketers, is because when you look at a pre-header, you don't look at it as a pre-header that has something, you look at what the pre-header is, what the subject line consists of.
00:15:37.824 --> 00:15:39.174
Is there a hero image?
00:15:39.204 --> 00:15:40.644
Is there a c t A button?
00:15:41.095 --> 00:15:46.674
And I think one of the biggest changes with marketing operations over time is that more and more.
00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:50.589
the next generation of marketers are just more tech savvy, right?
00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:52.600
So it's very hard.
00:15:52.659 --> 00:15:57.399
Even though technology and the concepts are kind of the same, you can't talk about concepts anymore.
00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:02.559
You have to talk about actual, you know, rolling up your sleeves and doing the work and how does it.
00:16:02.814 --> 00:16:16.704
How does it trickle down into what you're saying into worse, like versus just talking about this unicorn jumping over a rainbow, shitting Skittles, and all of a sudden you have marketing operations in a nutshell, and then all of a sudden you have revenue.
00:16:16.709 --> 00:16:17.004
Right.
00:16:17.514 --> 00:16:26.784
Um, that's, I think the biggest change is that if you talk to someone that's a c t or a cio, or even at the highest level, they know their products in and out.
00:16:26.904 --> 00:16:30.894
And from a marketing perspective, the biggest thing that's changed is when you.
00:16:31.990 --> 00:16:39.549
You know, someone at the sea level, they need to understand the product and the technology in order to devise a a cohesive strategy.
00:16:39.789 --> 00:16:50.139
And I think that's one of the biggest things that I've seen change, is that you can't walk into a group of people such as yourself or even Naomi or into an org and say, Lead scoring will solve everything.
00:16:50.169 --> 00:16:52.659
Okay, well how, like, how is it gonna solve it?
00:16:52.659 --> 00:16:53.919
How do we implement it?
00:16:54.189 --> 00:16:55.269
Where do we start?
00:16:55.329 --> 00:16:58.209
Where all those questions were never asked.
00:16:58.209 --> 00:17:07.870
Because when we used to pitch decks to companies and we said, lead scoring is this amazing thing and you can rate your leads and you know, they're hot, warm, and cold leads and people are like, that's amazing.
00:17:07.870 --> 00:17:10.299
That's the most, that's the most brilliant thing I've ever heard.
00:17:11.009 --> 00:17:12.809
and now it's more of like, okay, well what's a hot lead?
00:17:12.809 --> 00:17:14.279
Like how do you define it?
00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:15.539
What are the characteristics?
00:17:15.539 --> 00:17:16.470
What are the what?
00:17:16.470 --> 00:17:18.120
What is the ideal customer profile?
00:17:18.329 --> 00:17:27.089
All of those other components you have to be able to talk to, but you also have to be able to know the product that where it's being implemented to truly kind of graft a strategy.
00:17:27.089 --> 00:17:27.899
That makes sense.
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:28.619
Yeah.
00:17:29.910 --> 00:17:30.660
That's interesting.
00:17:30.750 --> 00:17:46.980
Um, how do you think, um, do you think that's become even harder as there's been this proliferation of marketing technology platforms that are like, I I think of'em as very sort of bespoke for really niche things, right?
00:17:47.490 --> 00:17:49.379
That Yeah, you generally, you have a core, right?
00:17:49.379 --> 00:17:53.609
Some sort of marketing automation platform, a crm, and then after that, like things.
00:17:54.299 --> 00:17:54.789
Some
00:17:54.789 --> 00:17:55.889
sort of a quick that's sort of content.
00:17:56.579 --> 00:17:56.700
Yeah.
00:17:56.700 --> 00:17:57.720
Some sort of content manager.
00:17:57.869 --> 00:17:58.079
Yeah.
00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:05.129
Um, I, I don't think it's, and this is obviously my personal opinion, I don't think it's become more difficult.
00:18:05.490 --> 00:18:13.829
I think it's just choosing, uh, of what array of products are the easiest for your team to use and get to your goals.
00:18:13.829 --> 00:18:17.789
Like, it's not ne like a b m strategy conceptually Makes sense.
00:18:18.014 --> 00:18:27.345
But what product is gonna help you achieve your ABM strategy and which one can you use easily and train and net new people and onboard as fast as possible?
00:18:27.345 --> 00:18:34.424
I feel like those are the items that people have to look into, into, like, you know, sometimes when people go with a big name company and they'll be like, yes, we need this.
00:18:34.424 --> 00:18:34.664
Why?
00:18:34.664 --> 00:18:35.894
Because everyone's using it.
00:18:36.254 --> 00:18:37.095
Not necessarily the case.
00:18:37.095 --> 00:18:40.994
Cuz you're onboard to onboarding time is where it's gonna kill you, uh, the most.
00:18:40.994 --> 00:18:41.234
Right?
00:18:41.234 --> 00:18:41.924
Like, so Yeah.
00:18:42.345 --> 00:18:43.545
Like, I think it's interesting.
00:18:43.545 --> 00:18:45.224
So for like ABMs a great example for me.
00:18:45.224 --> 00:18:46.904
Like I've never actually implemented ab.
00:18:47.649 --> 00:18:58.569
Platform because every time I get into the conversation with the companies I've been at, I always push back and go like, I don't think we're ready from an organizational standpoint to just go and buy technology.
00:18:58.569 --> 00:19:02.139
It's not gonna fix our strategy or how we approach things.
00:19:02.144 --> 00:19:02.319
Right?
00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:02.379
Yeah.
00:19:02.379 --> 00:19:12.009
So like we have to think differently and like, and I think we can probably make some steps forward with our existing, like our Cortex stack without buying new stuff.
00:19:12.309 --> 00:19:14.690
And what was interesting, the one in particular, I'm think.
00:19:15.204 --> 00:19:17.125
like we couldn't even get to a top hundred account.
00:19:18.085 --> 00:19:18.325
Yeah.
00:19:19.045 --> 00:19:21.204
So what's the point of ABM technology at that?
00:19:22.224 --> 00:19:24.565
Well, so ABM is a huge push, right?
00:19:24.565 --> 00:19:27.625
Like everyone wants ABM and there's a lot of product and vendors out there.
00:19:27.625 --> 00:19:32.964
And what they do is they can, they consolidate all of what you're talking about, the technicalities of it easier.
00:19:33.024 --> 00:19:36.355
Like they just make it easy for you to identify what your target accounts are.
00:19:36.934 --> 00:19:37.865
Well, if.
00:19:38.305 --> 00:19:43.315
Know, once again, what your target accounts are or what the digital makeup of those target accounts are.
00:19:43.315 --> 00:19:52.674
Those technologies will give you whatever that you plug in, and if you don't know what you're plugging in, then the output is gonna be just as you know, as just as.
00:19:53.575 --> 00:19:56.365
Bland, so you don't even know what you're paying for a product.
00:19:56.365 --> 00:19:59.934
And that's where people get into conversations like, why are we paying for something that we're not using?
00:20:00.805 --> 00:20:05.184
You know, traditionally ABM strategies really fall under like two concepts.
00:20:05.394 --> 00:20:09.625
You know, one are doppelganger accounts and one are la land and expand model.
00:20:10.315 --> 00:20:20.365
And you can do that within your c r m, like, you know, you don't need, you don't need a, a piece of software to essentially kind of show you, you just need a piece of software to make your life easier to consolidate all of those things.
00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:25.329
Yeah, so this is really interesting.
00:20:25.389 --> 00:20:28.149
Uh, my dogs agree with you there, You can hear'em.
00:20:28.869 --> 00:20:29.289
They're just talking.
00:20:29.289 --> 00:20:31.839
Um, they're just like all about abm, I'm telling you.
00:20:31.845 --> 00:20:32.119
That's right.
00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:32.619
That's that.
00:20:32.619 --> 00:20:33.940
That's how hot of a topic is.
00:20:33.970 --> 00:20:35.319
Even people don't understand abm.
00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:42.910
You mentioned ABM and people's ears perk up, Um, I'm, I'm speaking on ABM at B2B mx, just regarding that topic.
00:20:42.940 --> 00:20:50.019
Uh, particularly, uh, topic, but I so reason shows that topic is everyone's ears are always out, cuz that's what Google's top 10.
00:20:50.769 --> 00:20:56.259
ABM strategies going into 2023 blogs are, you know, taking over everyone's feed and so, right.
00:20:57.339 --> 00:21:00.069
So, um, shifted a little bit here.
00:21:00.069 --> 00:21:19.315
So one of the other things we've talked about is like, how do it, like are there differences in the type of marketing or marketer that you are like, so I think, I think it's probably safe to say the majority of the people who, who are lister, podcaster mostly b2b, um, So probably some b2c, we've had a few guests on that were more b2c.
00:21:19.315 --> 00:21:21.654
So, um, I guess there's a difference.
00:21:21.654 --> 00:21:29.154
But one of the things I've noticed lately is a lot of B2B marketers talking about like, needing to kinda bring in perspective or similarities, some of the B2C kind of things.
00:21:29.154 --> 00:21:31.315
Like I think basically saying, don't be boring.
00:21:31.464 --> 00:21:31.734
Right?
00:21:32.004 --> 00:21:32.754
Try to be Yeah.
00:21:32.934 --> 00:22:48.205
You know, but, um, do you, what do your, what is your take on.
00:22:48.925 --> 00:23:07.525
uh, like are there, are there more common things that are common in sort of, I hate to use the term best practices, but principles, I guess, for b2b, b2c, and you even mentioned something B to student, which we could elaborate on maybe if you want, but, or do you see there, there's more differences in, you know, what do you, what are you seeing that's common or different?
00:23:07.525 --> 00:23:07.975
Those.
00:23:09.875 --> 00:23:16.445
So, so business a student or BDS is essentially just mailing for the higher ed space that I've done consulting and that's what they're called, their BS model.
00:23:16.654 --> 00:23:18.845
Make sure, make sure you get the two in that one
00:23:18.850 --> 00:23:19.175
there.
00:23:19.654 --> 00:23:20.015
Yeah.
00:23:20.015 --> 00:23:20.495
The number two.
00:23:20.495 --> 00:23:20.795
Yeah.
00:23:20.795 --> 00:23:21.515
The B two s.
00:23:21.515 --> 00:23:22.475
Yeah, the bs.
00:23:22.925 --> 00:23:28.595
Um, but that's common in the higher ed space cuz they always market, you know, they refer to their, you know, prospects of students.
00:23:28.595 --> 00:23:30.585
We refer to our prospects of prospects and.
00:23:31.195 --> 00:23:36.894
Refer to them as clients, uh, you know, obviously they're students, uh, that are continuing their education career or something along those lines.
00:23:36.925 --> 00:23:36.955
Oh,
00:23:37.255 --> 00:23:39.414
I'm very familiar cuz I have a high school senior right now.
00:23:39.985 --> 00:23:40.404
Yeah.
00:23:40.404 --> 00:23:40.675
All right.
00:23:41.095 --> 00:23:51.925
Um, well, so the difference between B2B and b2c, I, you know, this is gonna be very, I'm not sure if it's gonna be an unpopular opinion or I don't know if it's gonna be a popular opinion.
00:23:51.925 --> 00:23:52.675
I'm not too sure.
00:23:53.095 --> 00:23:55.615
A lot of people talk about these components as like very separate.
00:23:55.615 --> 00:23:58.105
They say, well, B2B marketing is your marketing to the business.
00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:00.769
Business and consumer, you're marketing directly to the consumer.
00:24:00.769 --> 00:24:04.519
So consumer side has to be more flashy because you have to get a person's attention.
00:24:04.580 --> 00:24:04.880
Right?
00:24:05.120 --> 00:24:21.470
That's the, that's the, ideally like, oh, they have these buttons, they have these graphics, and one of the things that technology has changed is everyone's removing themselves from the conversation of the main purpose of any type of marketing is getting, like getting.
00:24:22.620 --> 00:24:28.210
Prospect, I'll just call'em that, to notice what you're talking about and to believe what you're saying is true.
00:24:28.779 --> 00:24:35.200
And you can have the flashiest email, email in the world, but if it doesn't drive home any kind of messaging, it's kind of irrelevant.
00:24:35.740 --> 00:24:45.430
Um, design, I feel like has gone the way of, you know, Cascading style sheets inside.
00:24:45.850 --> 00:24:54.490
You know, it's just design inside email is very, is very heavily looked at as the end all be all to get someone's attack, uh, uh, attraction.
00:24:54.490 --> 00:24:59.710
But as consultants, we know that if person never gets your email, because every single company has so many filters blocking it.
00:25:00.730 --> 00:25:02.769
It's, it's never gonna work.
00:25:02.769 --> 00:25:07.600
So when people really talk about in a consulting space, like, Hey, we want to be more like b2c.
00:25:07.930 --> 00:25:10.900
It's not that B2C emails.
00:25:10.904 --> 00:25:16.240
If you look at, you know, MailChimps or whatever, companies like open rates, and that's where like the strategy drives from.
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:17.620
That's not necessarily like b2c.
00:25:17.620 --> 00:25:19.779
Open rates are drastically.
00:25:20.170 --> 00:25:23.560
Crazy high because of the del, because of what they're delivering, right?
00:25:23.560 --> 00:25:26.410
Like is what the design or what the messaging is.
00:25:26.650 --> 00:25:30.310
But a lot of B2B marketers think that the emos need to be more B2C related.
00:25:30.310 --> 00:25:31.450
But what is B2C selling?
00:25:31.450 --> 00:25:32.320
What is the product?
00:25:32.740 --> 00:25:36.519
Their volume of people that they're marketing is a lot higher, right?
00:25:36.850 --> 00:25:44.779
Uh, So I think, um, to original, like, you know, to go back to your question is like, you know, what can B2B take from b2c?
00:25:45.050 --> 00:25:50.060
I think they can, B2B marketing can really kind of take away like what is a good cadence?
00:25:50.120 --> 00:25:57.400
You know, not every email needs to go out Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 8:00 AM you know, bus business to a consumer marketing is.
00:25:57.855 --> 00:25:59.085
Seven days a week.
00:25:59.565 --> 00:26:00.945
Yeah, I check emails on Saturday.
00:26:00.945 --> 00:26:02.535
You check emails on Saturday, right?
00:26:02.565 --> 00:26:07.695
There's a big thing at Myth, you know, a myth host and B2B is we only wanna deliver Monday.
00:26:07.695 --> 00:26:08.475
People are busy.
00:26:08.505 --> 00:26:11.355
We're gonna send an email Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday at optimal time.
00:26:11.355 --> 00:26:12.134
Don't send Friday.
00:26:12.134 --> 00:26:13.305
People are gonna drive home.
00:26:13.725 --> 00:26:15.735
And B2C is just like, we don't care.
00:26:15.735 --> 00:26:16.845
We're just gonna send you an email.
00:26:16.875 --> 00:26:20.835
We're gonna send you an email cuz we know that you're gonna either read it or you.
00:26:21.225 --> 00:26:26.025
Talked to messaging and a lot of B2B clients that we worked with, we've just randomly AB tested.
00:26:26.025 --> 00:26:41.355
We just shot an email out on Saturday and lo and behold, you know your kids are, I mean, I have two young kids and they go, they go to naps effectively between 12 to 3:00 PM and we just shot an email out at 11 or four or something like that, and glance, and there you go.
00:26:42.085 --> 00:26:47.095
You had a higher conversion rate just because people are not busy through the day of the day.
00:26:47.095 --> 00:26:51.955
So like, I think that's the, those are a couple concepts to kind of take away from B2B versus B2C marketing.
00:26:52.255 --> 00:26:54.085
It's not getting structured into that.
00:26:54.295 --> 00:27:01.015
Well, I think that's an interesting, like, that's a really interesting point in that, um, cause I think a lot of people when they see like, what can B2B take from b2c?
00:27:01.015 --> 00:27:04.015
They think about the, the creative elements, right?
00:27:04.075 --> 00:27:05.965
And the copy and the like.
00:27:06.675 --> 00:27:08.955
The, the tone of voice, things like that, but
00:27:10.305 --> 00:27:12.075
a lot of exclamations and emojis.
00:27:12.705 --> 00:27:13.904
Well, yeah, but not even that.
00:27:13.904 --> 00:27:22.875
But I think your point of like, oh, well actually, like don't be afraid to challenge your assumptions about like, is it okay to send on a Friday afternoon?
00:27:23.685 --> 00:27:34.675
Like I tell our, I've actually, I remember years ago seeing some stated, and I have no idea if it's still accurate, that Friday afternoons were actually, were a great time to get senior executives if that was your target audience.
00:27:35.125 --> 00:27:43.945
Cuz Friday afternoons they're not in meetings, they're cleaning up their email and if you catch'em while they're in their inbox Right, you get a chance.
00:27:43.945 --> 00:27:46.195
So like, um, yeah.
00:27:46.555 --> 00:27:51.985
And you know, one of the, one of the biggest things to, to not take away is that B2C marketing.
00:27:52.600 --> 00:28:03.730
And the design heavily focused is gonna, is gonna actually deter you because, uh, when, when I say deter your, like, open rates or, or your engagement rates is because in B2B marketing, a lot of people use Outlook.
00:28:03.730 --> 00:28:15.070
We have scanners, like if we work at corporations, oh, you know, B to B2C marketing is Gmail, Yahoo, iCloud, you know, top three and then a couple other ones I can't think of right now.
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:16.420
Hot Hotmail still, ya.
00:28:17.154 --> 00:28:17.335
Yeah.
00:28:17.335 --> 00:28:19.134
Live or, yeah, an outlook.
00:28:19.345 --> 00:28:31.825
And in b2b, if you go very design heavy or you start using custom font and you start throwing Google fonts in there, that's an immediate, you know, we did, we did so many validity tests through Everest, and we just found that.
00:28:32.765 --> 00:28:35.615
If you, the more design you have, and b I mean, everyone knows this, right?
00:28:35.615 --> 00:28:50.255
It's not like something, it's not like a a, a crazy strategy that I'm saying is that in B2B marketing, you wanna take design from b2c, you're not gonna get the same return as B2C because they're sending to people that have Gmail accounts for y mail accounts, and we're sending to Outlook and, you know, yeah.
00:28:50.255 --> 00:28:53.705
We were sending Outlook or business domains that are very heavily monitored.
00:28:53.705 --> 00:28:54.245
So, yeah.
00:28:55.654 --> 00:28:58.394
Curious, Naomi, like in your, have you.
00:28:58.914 --> 00:29:00.085
had challenges with that.
00:29:00.085 --> 00:29:03.745
Like people saying, oh, we can only send on certain days and times a day.
00:29:04.555 --> 00:29:04.975
And have you ever
00:29:05.515 --> 00:29:05.935
challenge that?
00:29:05.935 --> 00:29:14.725
Yeah, I think, um, yeah, actually it's interesting because just a couple weeks ago I had like an email trends and best practices call with my internal business partners who we kind of debunked a lot of these things.
00:29:14.815 --> 00:29:17.605
Um, and saying like, well, who said who said that?
00:29:17.664 --> 00:29:18.325
What's the source?
00:29:18.325 --> 00:29:18.595
Why?
00:29:18.625 --> 00:29:18.745
Yeah.
00:29:18.855 --> 00:29:19.095
Right?
00:29:19.095 --> 00:29:22.615
And how, and then I actually pulled, um, our business partner.
00:29:22.615 --> 00:29:23.894
I was like, how many of you actually.
00:29:24.565 --> 00:29:26.154
Email on a weekend.
00:29:26.275 --> 00:29:28.795
How many of you actually check email on in the evening?
00:29:28.795 --> 00:29:29.125
Right.
00:29:29.455 --> 00:29:33.985
Um, and so it was, I think it was pretty eye-opening for everybody and I was just like, you know what?
00:29:33.985 --> 00:29:43.315
We don't know until we try and it's better to try an AB test and to just make these assumptions based on information that is potentially out of date that we just don't.
00:29:44.140 --> 00:29:46.330
Have any basis for, so why don't we just try?
00:29:46.450 --> 00:30:00.370
And so I think that was really well received and there's definitely, um, uh, more openness I think to, you know, it, it seems to be this like mental block where people are like, I don't wanna send work email on a Saturday or not a work email, but like a work marketing email on a Saturday.
00:30:00.375 --> 00:30:00.410
Right?
00:30:00.410 --> 00:30:00.610
Right.
00:30:00.750 --> 00:30:01.450
But, but, and
00:30:01.450 --> 00:30:02.380
I'm like, why?
00:30:02.735 --> 00:30:03.215
Yeah.
00:30:03.535 --> 00:30:04.134
Worst that's happened.
00:30:04.134 --> 00:30:04.795
They'll get offended.
00:30:04.795 --> 00:30:05.815
I, I don't know why.
00:30:05.815 --> 00:30:05.965
You
00:30:05.965 --> 00:30:09.985
know, and, and that's the, and that right there I think is like consulting 1 0 1, right?
00:30:09.985 --> 00:30:14.725
And that's what I love about consulting is like, how do you know if you haven't tried?
00:30:14.725 --> 00:30:17.815
And the worst thing that they're gonna do is they're gonna unsubscribe to you anyway.
00:30:17.815 --> 00:30:18.115
Right?
00:30:18.475 --> 00:30:26.425
Like no matter what, like they're gonna unsubscribe whether they receive an email on Monday, Wednesday, Tuesday, but it's not like someone's gonna get a email on Saturday and be like, these.
00:30:27.250 --> 00:30:33.240
Unsubscribe, like, you know, the, if we can work until 10:00 PM and the whole work from home.
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:38.950
Items and everything that's talking about, like all of this stuff, people check emails during the same time.
00:30:38.950 --> 00:30:47.529
It's, you know, the worst case scenario if someone unsubscribes, but they're gonna un if that person was gonna unsubscribe, they're gonna unsubscribe Monday through Friday just as much as Saturday and Sunday.
00:30:48.039 --> 00:30:48.430
Well, I,
00:30:48.435 --> 00:30:55.630
yeah, I think, I think it's like the more important thing is like, regardless of when you send it, is it, is it gonna be useful and valuable to the recipient?
00:30:55.840 --> 00:30:56.050
Right.
00:30:56.050 --> 00:30:57.850
And if it's not, it doesn't really matter when you.
00:30:59.605 --> 00:31:00.144
So, yeah.
00:31:00.205 --> 00:31:00.865
You know what I mean?
00:31:01.644 --> 00:31:03.835
All right, so let, let's get into this.
00:31:03.835 --> 00:31:11.995
So you already talked about like as a consultant, you're expected to be sort of the expert on probably a lot of things, even things that are like new.
00:31:12.535 --> 00:31:23.485
So what, what are some strategies that you apply to keep up with stuff and kind of continue to learn that our listeners could benefit from that they could try to apply to their own sort of career and development?
00:31:25.045 --> 00:31:25.675
Yeah, so
00:31:26.664 --> 00:31:27.205
that's kind of a.
00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:31.300
Question because it's one of those things, it's a mindset.
00:31:31.930 --> 00:31:36.370
There's not really anything that I apply, like, I don't go out of my way to do something.
00:31:36.370 --> 00:31:40.990
I, it's not like I, I, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you, like, read every tech notes that come with your platform.
00:31:41.650 --> 00:31:48.130
You know, I, I'm a big fan of technology and one of the reasons I've stayed in consulting and martex along is because I like technology, right?
00:31:48.130 --> 00:31:50.230
So, if you like something, you're gonna pay attention to it.
00:31:50.230 --> 00:31:54.490
I'm really, really terrible at fantasy football because I have no idea what's going on.
00:31:54.490 --> 00:31:54.759
Why?
00:31:54.759 --> 00:31:56.529
Because I'm not vested into it.
00:31:57.315 --> 00:31:58.425
So it's not.
00:31:59.125 --> 00:32:01.525
I don't have, I don't have a subscription to a newsletter.
00:32:01.525 --> 00:32:04.765
I don't get like a 10 type type, uh, you know, top 10 topics.
00:32:04.975 --> 00:32:05.965
This is trending.
00:32:06.235 --> 00:32:22.394
I think if you're in the mop space and you're looking at, like, even in your guys' channel, you know, for the, for the Slack channel, like I feel like being part of communities in my personal opinion is a lot more important because in those type of communities, that's where people are asking questions.
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:23.475
Like, there's so many questions.
00:32:23.475 --> 00:32:23.675
I.
00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:31.950
Answer it inside like your Slack channel where someone posts something and there's stuff that someone is posting that even I didn't know about because they found a different solution to it.
00:32:31.950 --> 00:32:37.650
I feel like those to me, matter most, like being engaged and being part of those communities.
00:32:37.654 --> 00:32:39.810
I feel like that's what helps you learn.
00:32:40.259 --> 00:32:51.660
Like asking people that have either done it or doing it or have D done something or will be doing it right, like I feel like those are where I kind of put all my time.
00:32:52.990 --> 00:32:54.279
I mean, yeah, I reach patch notes.
00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:55.120
I kind of have to, right?
00:32:55.120 --> 00:32:59.200
Like you have to know what Marketo is changing or what marketing automation platform is changing.
00:32:59.560 --> 00:33:06.820
But I think that's probably would be my recommendation is join communities and connect with people that are actively working on projects.
00:33:07.185 --> 00:33:09.825
Doing it and then see what you can learn from them.
00:33:09.825 --> 00:33:13.725
Seeing what takeaways, because that's the best way to, you know, increase your skillset.
00:33:13.755 --> 00:33:15.075
Like that's the skillset I have.
00:33:15.105 --> 00:33:18.435
I don't have a skillset of reading documents or watching YouTube videos.
00:33:18.435 --> 00:33:25.935
I have a, I have a skillset of doing and listening and working with other agencies, uh, in my career, and that's where I learned everything from.
00:33:25.995 --> 00:33:26.235
Yeah,
00:33:26.235 --> 00:33:26.925
it's interesting.
00:33:26.985 --> 00:33:27.555
I, I.
00:33:28.450 --> 00:33:32.200
Early in my career, a lot older than either of you, I think.
00:33:32.529 --> 00:33:42.100
But I, like I say, tricky up with stuff I subscribe to, like very nerdy, like publications that were free, and I was pretty consistent about reading'em.
00:33:42.105 --> 00:33:53.650
I mean, the idea, like there wasn't really this idea of a community, but it's interesting just again, just today, earlier today in the marketing ops.com Slack, I had posted a question like last week.
00:33:54.730 --> 00:33:57.730
People chimed in and someone actually, I was like, Hey, can you talk about this?
00:33:57.730 --> 00:34:00.340
Cuz it's like, I didn't, I, something I hadn't seen.
00:34:00.340 --> 00:34:02.200
And that person gave me a call.
00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:06.670
We talked for 15 minutes and I learned a whole bunch, like in 15 minutes just like that.
00:34:07.509 --> 00:34:08.349
So it's,
00:34:08.380 --> 00:34:09.849
yeah, it's, that's where.
00:34:10.184 --> 00:34:11.744
That's where you and I got connected, right?
00:34:11.744 --> 00:34:19.634
Like there was, there was no, like, you know, LinkedIn is such a broad atmosphere and you know, there's so many agencies, there's so many companies, there's so many people working on stuff.
00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:24.045
But that's where you and I got connected and that's where we had our conversation as far as like, hey, like what do you do?
00:34:24.315 --> 00:34:24.394
Yeah.
00:34:24.394 --> 00:34:24.556
That's where we
00:34:24.594 --> 00:34:25.994
started Naomie.
00:34:25.994 --> 00:34:34.784
How, like, I'm curious how, like, how do you, like, how do you and maybe your team, like how do you help your team keep up, uh, kind of up like learning and developing on.
00:34:36.144 --> 00:34:38.094
Whether it's technology or process or whatever.
00:34:38.335 --> 00:34:41.605
Yeah, I think, um, and this goes back to how I structure my team, right?
00:34:41.605 --> 00:34:44.994
So everyone on my team is a subject matter expert in their own area.
00:34:45.054 --> 00:34:52.224
Um, it's a, what I did not want is a team of kind of marketing general generalists.
00:34:53.394 --> 00:34:59.005
So the way that my team is structured, everybody can, you know, execute a campaign end-to-end.
00:34:59.005 --> 00:35:01.585
Everybody is, you know, very proficient in Marketo.
00:35:01.795 --> 00:35:06.804
Either has passed their CE or is taking their CE within the next couple weeks actually.
00:35:07.224 --> 00:35:08.244
Um, and.
00:35:09.654 --> 00:35:11.724
So every, so everybody has that same baseline, right?
00:35:11.724 --> 00:35:16.945
So that helps with things like coverage and holidays and, you know, people being out of office and things like that.
00:35:17.304 --> 00:35:21.894
But additionally, every person has their own kind of like area that they're responsible for.
00:35:21.894 --> 00:35:23.784
So I have a full blown web developer on the team.
00:35:24.235 --> 00:35:31.074
Um, a data operations person, a process slash documentation analytics person, and then somebody that I, who.
00:35:31.414 --> 00:35:34.085
Sit on the ops team, but um, is on a different team.
00:35:34.085 --> 00:35:44.014
But I, I do rely on for some design stuff and how that has benefited the team is that not everybody has to know everything exactly perfectly right?
00:35:44.315 --> 00:35:48.005
So they're, everybody is responsible for their area and there's.
00:35:48.414 --> 00:36:02.125
Situations where, when we're on a team call or whatnot, um, if there's things that will impact, you know, the way that our team functions or process or what or um, how we kind of aid our business partners, they will let the team know.
00:36:02.125 --> 00:36:08.565
And so that way everybody, we can just mind share and it's just a lot better than everybody trying to keep on top of everything, all at.
00:36:08.914 --> 00:36:10.925
Um, like that movie, what is it?
00:36:10.925 --> 00:36:11.795
Everything Everywhere.
00:36:11.795 --> 00:36:14.885
All at Once or um, right.
00:36:14.885 --> 00:36:15.155
Yeah.
00:36:15.155 --> 00:36:21.934
So it's just, it, it's, it's made it much easier to handle because like, as you all know, everything changes all the time.
00:36:22.235 --> 00:36:22.625
Yeah.
00:36:22.635 --> 00:36:23.034
Yeah.
00:36:23.764 --> 00:36:24.365
That's interesting.
00:36:24.605 --> 00:36:24.664
Yeah.
00:36:24.724 --> 00:36:33.514
In my case, cause I'm going through a little bit of like shifting a little bit of kinda responsibilities around it, but part of it is to also build in coverage.
00:36:33.514 --> 00:36:34.025
Just like, yeah.
00:36:34.025 --> 00:36:35.164
Like we didn't have that.
00:36:35.375 --> 00:36:36.724
There was not a lot of slack for that.
00:36:38.905 --> 00:36:56.034
and, but one of the things I do is I try to make sure as I'm working with them, especially for the folks who are relatively new either to the business or to this function, is try to answer, like provide the context about why we're, why, either why I'm suggesting something or doing something.
00:36:56.039 --> 00:36:57.474
But I want them to understand the why.
00:36:57.505 --> 00:37:01.105
Cuz I think beyond the technology, cuz I think we've all hinted at it, right?
00:37:01.105 --> 00:37:05.635
There's usually more than one way to solve a business thing, especially in marketing, right?
00:37:06.250 --> 00:37:22.869
with technology, there's not necessarily one that's better than the other set of trade offs, but I try to help them think about like the, the broader perspective, um, particularly if we're talking about things that tie in with like marketing to sales, kind of lead, lead flow and things like that.
00:37:22.869 --> 00:37:26.470
Because there's just so many things that are downstream that you have to take, think about.
00:37:27.655 --> 00:37:29.664
and that, I think that's the thing I try to do for my own team.
00:37:29.664 --> 00:37:33.385
And then yeah, for myself, I, I try to keep up with stuff.
00:37:33.385 --> 00:37:35.034
Community is definitely a piece of it.
00:37:35.034 --> 00:37:38.784
I mean, I probably said it several times on these podcasts.
00:37:38.784 --> 00:37:45.985
Like if it, I could, I'm trying to, like, if I could imagine what my career would've been like had this been around 20 years ago, like it would've been.
00:37:46.630 --> 00:37:48.250
I think of actually different experience.
00:37:48.700 --> 00:37:48.909
You would've
00:37:48.909 --> 00:37:53.619
retired cause you would've invested in Slack right?
00:37:54.130 --> 00:37:55.450
Yeah, yeah.
00:37:55.450 --> 00:38:04.360
But I mean it's Naomi's point, like even as you know, A as g and W consulting has been growing, what she said is a hundred percent what you have to do.
00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:05.740
Like everyone has to be do.
00:38:06.389 --> 00:38:07.960
Everyone has to be able to do some.
00:38:09.170 --> 00:38:11.034
of a role in marketing operations, right?
00:38:11.335 --> 00:38:22.615
When we were, you know, when I, we were like, uh, I still talk about it like where every, everywhere where I worked when I was still starting, and one person could build campaigns and you know, if that person went on vacation, you would have to wait.
00:38:22.615 --> 00:38:22.795
Why?
00:38:22.795 --> 00:38:25.105
Because like that skillset was still being developed.
00:38:25.105 --> 00:38:25.375
Right?
00:38:25.914 --> 00:38:29.365
So if you think about growth in marketing ops, like.
00:38:29.829 --> 00:38:32.740
You cannot, you cannot be afraid of doing something.
00:38:32.740 --> 00:38:41.260
Like you have to be well versed enough to know that I can run a campaign, I can set up a program, I can execute an email, uh, you know, coding and stuff like that.
00:38:41.264 --> 00:38:41.275
Yeah.
00:38:41.409 --> 00:38:43.389
There, eventually that gets into specialty skills.
00:38:43.389 --> 00:38:50.650
But even as g and w Consulting has been growing, the idea is everyone has to learn everything and let, then let's find.
00:38:51.385 --> 00:38:54.445
What your, uh, then let's find out like what your skillset is.
00:38:54.474 --> 00:39:01.255
What, like what is the thing that makes you you and then you have your baseline and then you have something that you're very, very specialized at.
00:39:02.965 --> 00:39:03.925
That's a good, I think.
00:39:03.925 --> 00:39:04.345
Good way.
00:39:04.735 --> 00:39:04.945
All right.
00:39:04.945 --> 00:39:13.934
So one other thing that, uh, Raja you and I talked about is you, you had mentioned something and, uh, total transparency for our, our audience.
00:39:13.940 --> 00:39:13.974
Right.
00:39:13.974 --> 00:39:16.494
I I didn't take very good notes when I talked to Roger.
00:39:16.494 --> 00:39:33.295
So, um, he, he, you mentioned something about, um, kind of on the ground learning or, or like in real time I think is maybe how you would've phrased it, but like, what do you mean by that and kind of how, how, how do you, how does that fit into this whole kind of idea of trying to continue to learn?
00:39:33.985 --> 00:39:38.095
Yeah, I'll, I'll give you a prime example and I, I don't recommend anyone trying this at all.
00:39:38.605 --> 00:39:39.595
Uh, even remotely.
00:39:41.215 --> 00:39:49.365
At first when I was starting in consulting, when I mean on the ground learning, I mean, it's just like doing something, following instructions well enough and.
00:39:50.200 --> 00:39:55.480
Not failing as hard as I've had cuz I've straight up deleted a company's Google Analytics account.
00:39:56.110 --> 00:39:58.210
Now I don't recommend anyone doing that.
00:39:58.215 --> 00:39:58.599
Right?
00:39:59.409 --> 00:40:10.539
That taught me a lot of things, But at the same time, when I talk about like actual lesson learned on the ground, what I'm really talking about is actually doing stuff, you know, not just talking and.
00:40:11.150 --> 00:40:20.030
Theoreticals and, you know, strategy and like getting wrapped up into like all of these, the top 10 things to optimize your marketing operate.
00:40:20.030 --> 00:40:24.590
Like, are they really top 10 things or they really like two things somewhere over there.
00:40:24.590 --> 00:40:26.030
Like so on the ground.
00:40:26.030 --> 00:40:27.409
Just, you know, it is just a way of meaning.
00:40:27.409 --> 00:40:28.130
It is just a way of meaning.
00:40:28.130 --> 00:40:31.730
Like, you know, do it, test it, you know, you don't ha.
00:40:32.530 --> 00:40:45.470
Marketing automation platforms currently allow you to send yourself an email, like be the target audience for yourself, and execute a campaign with one person and knowing that you're gonna send it to yourself and walk through that.
00:40:46.075 --> 00:40:47.065
Entire process.
00:40:47.125 --> 00:40:49.795
So that way, you know, you learn by doing right.
00:40:49.945 --> 00:40:51.295
And that's really what it means, right?
00:40:51.295 --> 00:40:53.934
Like, you know, knowing that hey, something's gonna go off.
00:40:54.595 --> 00:41:04.795
Was it like, I think like last year, hbo, which is like a huge company, send out like a giant email with someone like Lead Token, and they were getting like, you know, made fun of and they released a statement and all of that good stuff.
00:41:05.005 --> 00:41:05.875
That's all I'm talking about.
00:41:05.875 --> 00:41:13.075
Like if that person, whoever did that, they learned by doing and they will never make that mistake ever again in Ter in inside their entire life.
00:41:13.284 --> 00:41:15.494
Just like I will not delete a Google a.
00:41:15.744 --> 00:41:23.934
Account for the entire company, cuz I was up until two in the morning calling Google saying, can you please, please restore this account?
00:41:23.934 --> 00:41:26.095
My life and my job depends on it.
00:41:26.099 --> 00:41:34.135
Like, and like, once again, I, I wouldn't recommend people doing that, but that's kind of the, that's kinda like the, um, the backbone behind, behind it.
00:41:34.345 --> 00:41:34.615
I think
00:41:34.619 --> 00:41:43.494
anyone that works in marketing ops has horror stories like this or anyone who's worked in the industry long enough knows, has like instances where it's.
00:41:44.300 --> 00:41:54.590
Wednesday at like three in the morning, and then they immediately wake up and like crawl to their laptop or bring it into bed, and it's like, let me just double check that I'm sending this in the right time zone to the right people.
00:41:54.990 --> 00:41:55.389
mm-hmm.
00:41:55.680 --> 00:41:56.030
So
00:41:57.300 --> 00:41:57.789
yeah.
00:41:57.789 --> 00:41:58.110
Yeah.
00:41:58.110 --> 00:41:58.670
Mm-hmm.
00:41:58.760 --> 00:41:59.110
so.
00:41:59.494 --> 00:42:01.175
So that's, that's the premise behind it, right?
00:42:01.175 --> 00:42:02.974
Like, until, until you do stuff like that.
00:42:02.974 --> 00:42:06.485
Because once again, until you do stuff like that, you're never gonna not do it ever again.
00:42:06.755 --> 00:42:14.615
And I could tell you about my team, you know, that, you know, some relatively new, some tenured that have done stuff, you know, a as g and w consulting and been growing.
00:42:14.914 --> 00:42:16.865
We talk to clients, we're very open about it.
00:42:16.865 --> 00:42:17.494
We handle it, but.
00:42:18.085 --> 00:42:19.644
That's, that's the premise behind it.
00:42:19.644 --> 00:42:19.885
So
00:42:20.605 --> 00:42:25.224
yeah, I mean, I think there's so much, there's a couple things there that pick up.
00:42:25.224 --> 00:42:29.065
One, I think is like, don't be afraid to try stuff, even if you feel like you don't know it all the way.
00:42:29.065 --> 00:42:29.244
Right.
00:42:29.244 --> 00:42:31.434
You can learn from just trying.
00:42:32.065 --> 00:42:38.875
Um, the other part, and, and I, you know, I haven't thought about this as much lately, but I think it's really easy.
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:40.795
I'm not like, it's, I think it's important to.
00:42:41.559 --> 00:42:43.599
You know, care about the work you do.
00:42:43.659 --> 00:42:48.309
But at the end of the day, for most of us, right, in these roles with, I'm sure some exceptions, right?
00:42:49.420 --> 00:42:54.760
If you have an email that goes out with tokens in it, or you delete the Google Analytics account, right?
00:42:55.780 --> 00:42:57.789
The world's not gonna, like, nobody's gonna die.
00:42:58.360 --> 00:42:59.800
Um, nobody's, like,
00:42:59.950 --> 00:43:02.110
nobody's, we're not sending, we're not sending people in the space.
00:43:02.470 --> 00:43:02.920
It's not hard search.
00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:05.079
I mean, um, like I, I, I.
00:43:05.619 --> 00:43:09.519
sort of fortunate enough that I have a, I have a friend who's literally is a neurosurgeon, right?
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:14.440
And so like, I don't know how he, he handles that kind of stress.
00:43:15.460 --> 00:43:23.650
Um, I may have some idea, but like, I, that, to me, I'm like, okay, that's like, that's a job where you know, like your decisions can actually have true.
00:43:24.700 --> 00:43:26.200
true important consequences.
00:43:26.200 --> 00:43:41.079
And so yeah, it's, it's, it's easy to get caught up in the, in the frenetic pace of what we do and the expectations of always being on and that kind of stuff, and delivering more faster with less Right to that it, it matters more than it really is.
00:43:41.230 --> 00:43:41.860
So, yeah.
00:43:43.059 --> 00:43:43.659
Um.
00:43:44.244 --> 00:43:45.115
Interesting stuff.
00:43:45.144 --> 00:43:45.445
Okay.
00:43:45.445 --> 00:43:55.465
So what, I guess I'll just leave it with, is there anything else that you wanna share with our audience about like how, you know, learning growth, kind of keeping up with technology that we haven't already covered?
00:43:55.974 --> 00:43:56.275
Yeah.
00:43:56.425 --> 00:44:01.315
One of the main highlights is that, you know, we're a technology agnostic.
00:44:01.825 --> 00:44:06.355
I'm a technology agnostic person, meaning I've, I've, I know HubSpot, part up Marketing Cloud.
00:44:07.045 --> 00:44:11.375
There's things, even though they're unrelated, you can learn from other platforms.
00:44:12.465 --> 00:44:13.825
I would say don't put yourself in like.
00:44:14.784 --> 00:44:17.590
I am a professional at one software and system.
00:44:17.650 --> 00:44:22.059
There's stuff that you're gonna pick up from another platform that's gonna carry over, right?
00:44:22.329 --> 00:44:24.940
You're, who knows what the future's gonna hold.
00:44:24.940 --> 00:44:30.309
So as long, the best way to like kind of diversify your skill is to learn more than one platform.
00:44:30.369 --> 00:44:31.329
Like do not be.
00:44:32.019 --> 00:44:43.990
The best Marketo person on the face of this planet be a really good Marketo person, but a really good HubSpot, really good qua, really good, like dabble into all of these items because that's what's gonna really round out your skillset.
00:44:44.380 --> 00:44:57.639
And I feel like that's where I've personally had the most success at is that when someone's like, oh, you've used Qua, you've used HubSpot, you've used these items, you've used Salesforce, you use Dynamics, and you know, pretty much don't, don't funnel yourself into just.
00:44:58.615 --> 00:45:02.065
One item and learn it because there's things that you're gonna learn.
00:45:02.394 --> 00:45:04.375
And we ran it, we ran across this.
00:45:04.494 --> 00:45:05.545
I, I, I pitch it.
00:45:05.965 --> 00:45:17.934
I, I, I say as much as stuff, uh, there's stuff that I've learned and there's stuff that, you know, consultants that work at g w Consulting and that we've learned, that we've solved, like as issues and problems that we've solved in one platform.
00:45:18.730 --> 00:45:30.954
where we've gone into another platform and we have a resolution because we already solved it in something else, or we already know how this would work, uh, or how like a workflow or sequence is gonna affect a smart list or a flow.
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:32.724
Like we've already seen those elements.
00:45:32.724 --> 00:45:38.755
So yeah, that, that, that would be like, I guess the biggest thing is like, don't you know the technology space is growing so much.
00:45:38.965 --> 00:45:41.215
Don't combine yourself into just one platform.
00:45:42.505 --> 00:45:42.925
Got it.
00:45:44.409 --> 00:45:47.110
Uh, I think that might generate some debate, actually.
00:45:47.559 --> 00:45:49.510
I think that's a common kind of thing we have here.
00:45:49.510 --> 00:45:50.380
So, good stuff.
00:45:50.409 --> 00:45:52.180
Uh, RA Raj, thank you so much.
00:45:52.184 --> 00:45:57.700
If folks do wanna keep up with you or what you're doing, uh, what your agency's doing, how, what's the best way for them to to do that?
00:45:59.994 --> 00:46:00.445
Um, yeah, I
00:46:00.445 --> 00:46:02.934
mean, uh, go to the website, obviously.
00:46:02.934 --> 00:46:05.215
Hey, you know, you can go to gw consulting.com.
00:46:05.305 --> 00:46:08.845
Uh, we have a blog, uh, you know, there's a LinkedIn page.
00:46:09.115 --> 00:46:11.365
The LinkedIn page is continuously updated as well.
00:46:11.425 --> 00:46:13.075
Uh, there's a lot of good stuff on there.
00:46:13.075 --> 00:46:15.175
There's a lot of good stuff on the website.
00:46:15.180 --> 00:46:21.625
The cool thing is I'm not a big fan of gated content cuz we live in a world where everyone's information is readily available.
00:46:21.625 --> 00:46:24.635
So if you wanna go to the website, you can click on stuff, you can download.
00:46:25.295 --> 00:46:35.329
And you know, whenever people are ready to talk, you tell me like, you're not gonna have to give me your entire information because we live in a world where I already can technically have access to all your digital profiles.
00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:39.320
So uh, LinkedIn or the website is pretty much the best bet, so.
00:46:39.680 --> 00:46:40.130
Sounds
00:46:40.130 --> 00:46:40.550
good.
00:46:40.550 --> 00:46:40.880
All right.
00:46:40.885 --> 00:46:44.150
Well, Raj, thank you again for sharing with our, with our listeners and our audience.
00:46:44.180 --> 00:46:50.570
Appreciate it and thanks to our audience for, for, uh, continuing to support us and provide us good feedback.
00:46:50.575 --> 00:46:53.030
And, uh, if you are interested in.
00:46:53.300 --> 00:47:03.409
A topic that you want us to cover or a guest you want us to include or you wanna be a guest, feel free to reach out to Naomi, Mike Rizzo, or me either LinkedIn or the marketing ops.com community.
00:47:04.010 --> 00:47:05.990
Um, Naomi, thanks.
00:47:06.170 --> 00:47:10.340
It's always fun to get on one of these with you, so we'll have to do this more often.
00:47:10.519 --> 00:47:11.450
I know you guys definitely.
00:47:11.659 --> 00:47:15.050
So, um, Raj, thank you to everyone else.
00:47:15.230 --> 00:47:16.639
We'll talk to you now another time.
00:47:16.639 --> 00:47:17.180
Thanks.
00:47:17.240 --> 00:47:17.690
Bye.
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:19.039
Thanks everyone.
00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:19.550
Take care.
00:47:19.659 --> 00:47:20.019
Bye.