Jessica DeRose: Wait, you're wearing your new only human... mock neck? I don't even know if I've seen it, honestly.
Karli Visconto: Wait, actually, I feel like I wear it all the freaking time. I love it. It's so comfy.
Jessica DeRose: No, I don't think I have. No, it's so cute. I'm obsessed with the mock neck look right now, except like every single one's like $70 and I'm like, I'm not buying.
Karli Visconto: I was just gonna say I wish we could like sell this as merch but I paid a pretty penny for it and I almost didn't do it and this is my company so nobody else would
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, so like, yeah, it's a good benchmark to see if people will pay for it or not. ⁓ my gosh, it is really cute though.
Karli Visconto: Exactly. We need to get you one.
Jessica DeRose: I need, I'm like, I need to switch up. I'm like tired of the same old rotation. Cause it's like all the only sweatshirts I wear are my only human ones. My three only human ones.
Karli Visconto: I gotta be honest, I'm like a little sick of our merch across the board.
Jessica DeRose: I know, me too. I mean, it's been a year, right? I mean, that's when we usually are like, we're good. We get the itch for things after a year. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: True. something new, although I guess we can tease a little bit. We're currently designing some hats for summer. We're gonna add some color against all things that I stand for. Jess has strong-armed me. But it'll be fun. We're coming out with a new little design and yeah, a couple skews for the summertime.
Jessica DeRose: ⁓ my gosh. Yeah, that Carly stands for. Yeah. Ooh, fancy. Why are you so far away today? I'm like trying to back up to meet you and you're just really far. There we go. That's better. Okay, fine. Fair.
Karli Visconto: Well, initially we talking about my sweatshirt, so then I was letting it be shown. And then I also have said previously, I don't like when the camera is so close to my face. Nobody needs to be this close to me. ⁓ my gosh, how are you? We're recording in the morning again. So good morning.
Jessica DeRose: Yes, I know I'm like I think I can get behind this I mean it's not 7 a.m. Or anything, but I think I can get behind a morning recording
Karli Visconto: Yeah, nice and fresh. How was your?
Jessica DeRose: Yay, Rachel said, yay color to hats. ⁓ I know exactly which one she's gonna get. She's a pink girly. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: Which one? Pink will be cute.
Jessica DeRose: You're like literally you're crossing your fingers while you say that honestly You're like you won't catch me in any of these colors Will not wear her own merch
Karli Visconto: I know. I'm cringing. Well, that's why, don't worry. Anybody that is not a color girl, we are ordering a nice tan color. So it's gonna be a monochromatic look with a beige hat and then a little bit of a darker tan coffee look. So there'll be something for everyone, even me.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, even you. We had to all-inclusive for Carly, but.
Karli Visconto: Exactly. How was your night yesterday? I like you guys went into the city, right? Once the rain stopped and the sun came out.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, we did. So we did go into the city. We did not do what we planned to do. The funniest thing, we were like trying to find something to do indoors because it was raining yesterday. mean, obviously the city is like 45 minutes, but we're like, screw it. We'll just, neither of us work today. going, like, we'll go down into the city, do something we're going to do, mini golf and a comedy show. Perfect night. Well, so we're getting ready and the sun just comes out. and it's like shining and we're like, wait, the Phillies are playing tonight. And we looked at the tickets and they were like ridiculously cheap. So we went to the Phillies game instead. Yeah, we got there like two hours early, like literally they were like closing up from batting practice. Like we were so early, which is ridiculous because we usually miss the first pitch because we're late. ⁓ But yeah, so it was so fun. I mean, they ended up losing, but they started out like better than they have been, I think.
Karli Visconto: ⁓ my god. I literally texted it, the Phillies are winning for once. And then five minutes later, we were down by two. And I was like, okay, perfect. And then I didn't actually look at the result of the game when I woke up this morning. I went to bed before it ended. So I'm sad to hear they lost. But that makes sense why the tickets were, tickets? What the hell? The tickets were so cheap. ⁓ my gosh, my brain.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, no. What the shit? Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, well, and actually started. So when we left, it was like completely sunny, like it had never rained and there was no rain on the radar for the night. And then literally as they were getting ready to throw the first pitch of the game, it started raining. So we like we got wet. It wasn't like terrible, but it was definitely like I think we stood in the concourse for like the first inning and watched and then like had to our seats off and stuff. And it was Hold. We were icicles yesterday, it was freezing.
Karli Visconto: Yet this week in general looks cold again. I'm like, what the hell? Can spring just stay a minute?
Jessica DeRose: I know I'm not here for it. Goes back to our previous conversation. I'm just like, yeah, now give it all or don't give me anything, you know. I want all the nice weather. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, well, it's not abiding. I know. ⁓ I'm excited for our episode today because it kind of came about in like a we both were feeling it and I had an idea of what to talk about and then you had an idea and then we kind of just combined the two. So really like the general theme is like overthinking and being extremely indecisive, which is something I think we both battle with.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah.
Karli Visconto: And I don't know why we battle with it so much. And I always ask myself the question, like, is it normal? Like, is it just part of being human to just like always have like this cyclical thought in your head and like rumination of the same thing over and over again? And I don't have an answer for that. Like, do you know if it's normal? Do you think the average person battles with that?
Jessica DeRose: I don't know either. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's what I was gonna say is like, overthinking is one of those things that's like such a silent battle. Like you don't really know. To say that it's like normal, probably not. It's probably not super healthy to be like in cyclical thought and you know, overthinking like little tiny things like I tend to do. ⁓ But I think it's very common.
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's very true.
Jessica DeRose: And it's very hard to articulate, I will say. Like, I think it's a difficult feeling to like explain other than just explaining your thought process of like the back and forth.
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. Yeah. When you think about yourself overthinking, like, has that always been a characteristic trait of yours? Like, does that stem back from childhood? You've always been that way? Or is that something you've kind of stepped into in your adulthood?
Jessica DeRose: I've stepped into. For the better or worse.
Karli Visconto: You stepped into the power of overthinking.
Jessica DeRose: It's so funny because I have a hard time remembering myself as a child, like my inner thoughts. So I don't think so, but I don't really know. ⁓ I think it's something that has like just come along with my anxiety as I have gotten older. Does that make sense? I think you might have a different answer than me though. What, like, what do you think for yourself?
Karli Visconto: 100%. No, I was gonna say actually, like, I do think I've always been an over thinker, but I think it stems from my anxiety. I think it's extremely intertwined. And like, obviously, we kind of laid out some like thought starters for this podcast episode. And I was like, just kind of answering it because I was like, this can have the ability to really be like a high level.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah.
Karli Visconto: confusing, rambly episode and I didn't want that. Like I wanted to actually come with some concrete examples and so it really made me reflect before pressing record today. And I was like, ⁓ my gosh, yeah, I think it does stem from anxiety. And when I give examples of like what overthinking looks like or how it shows up in my relationships or, you know, me at work and my productivity, like I think we'll really like see that.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Karli Visconto: ⁓ So yeah, I think I've always been an over thinker, but I think the nature of my overthinking has just changed in terms of how it manifests throughout my life.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, yeah, I think I don't even know when it was, but I think it was very recently that I kind of like took note of like what was actually going on in my head. think otherwise I was kind of just so deep into it, but I've since been able to like kind of take a step back and view like what's going on in my head objectively and kind of like be like, what the hell? Like this is crazy. And I think I'm at the point right now where I'm like, I now recognize what I'm doing and I'm like, this is crazy and exhausting. Like crazy meaning like, this doesn't need to happen. Like it's just so ridiculous. But yeah, so I'm at this point where I'm like in the observation period, but I'm like, it doesn't stop the thoughts from happening or like allow me to like come to a decision quicker or stop overthinking. Like, I don't know, I'm just in this like observation phase.
Karli Visconto: Well, I feel like that's the first step, right? They always say the first step is awareness, but what a powerful exercise to go through because the power of perspective, it's so easy to live in your own head and that is the only way that you know. And it's not until you develop another perspective or point of view and compare it against what might be normal, you would never know that the loop that you're stuck in that's exhausting and overboard is not.
Jessica DeRose: ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so true.
Karli Visconto: how your brain was meant to be wired and meant to like conduct itself day in and day out and how other people aren't going through that experience. And so like, just take a step back and be like, actually, this is something that I'm going through, but like, it doesn't have to be this way. This isn't quote unquote, like normal. Only then can you then initiate a change, you know?
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Yeah, no, I totally agree. ⁓ I feel like I've been talking a lot in the hypothetical, so let's get a little tangible for a sec. What do you think, what's something that, when you think of overthinking, what's something that you've overthought recently? Walk me through what that was like.
Karli Visconto: I actually have two examples. ⁓ One of them was my Pilates playlist for Saturday. We went to Mason Mills Park for the Flawless Fitness member appreciation celebration. And I taught that class and I had curated this playlist. And I'm always extremely intentional about the songs that I play. And I always wonder if other Pilates instructors are equally as intentional or really think through their playlist. But I'm always like, I always start with the same song and end with the same song, but in terms of the warm up, I'm like, we start slow and then we get a little bit quicker and then I wanna throw in some rap and then I like to keep the people on their toes and never know what song comes next. So I very much over thought that. But then fast forward to Saturday, my Spotify was on some fucking bullshit place setting and it was pulling in songs from absolutely nowhere. It wasn't even on my playlist. My playlist was playing out of order.
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm.
Karli Visconto: And so the whole thing went to shit. Well, I don't think it's very smart. I think it's stupid. ⁓ So it all went to shit. But you know what? I rolled with the punches and it was fine. So like that was kind of like a pure example of something that I put a lot of thought into and effort into that like didn't even need to be. ⁓
Jessica DeRose: It was Smart Shuffle, by the way, for the audience. It was on Smart Shuffle. haha Yeah. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: done in the first place. Like yes, it's a nice to have, but like Carly, didn't need to take it that seriously because it ended up just going off the walls anyway.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, I mean, I'm curious. I think there is a difference between being very intentional and like that's kind of like your brand and your like passion. So like you enjoy curating these playlists. It's for a specific reason. So I'm curious if there was a line where it was like, it's not anymore just being intentional. It's being overthought.
Karli Visconto: That's a great question, because I completely agree. And I am extremely intentional because I think it all curates the experience that I want to give the people taking my class. And I take note of those details when I'm taking other people's class and it actually affects my time. So I do think there's a line and there has been times in the past where I spend way too much time looking for that last song.
Jessica DeRose: The perfect song. Yeah, for sure.
Karli Visconto: Yes, to like get me to that 45 minute mark. So there is a line, I think with this playlist, because I hadn't taught in a while and I was trying to find songs, I did spend more time than I would have liked. And I think I knew that going in. So that was the case of overthinking. ⁓ Just one other example. Yeah.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Rachel said she hates Smart Shuffle, by the way. You guys should create a Smart Shuffle hater group or something.
Karli Visconto: It's perfect. will create the group and then create the petition because that was a shit show on Saturday. It wasn't even like songs that I was like vibing with. I'm like, this isn't even the same genre of what's on my playlist. Like, this is just sabotage.
Jessica DeRose: You're gonna organize. Yeah, you were like... was so funny because at one point, and we're going off the rails here, but at one point there was like a song playing and Karly was like, what is this? Like, sorry, this is not on my playlist, but we're gonna go with it. Five seconds later, okay, sorry, I can't do it, changes the song.
Karli Visconto: It was Kesha and I'm like, okay, the girls seemed excited about it. They're like, I haven't heard Kesha in forever. So I'm like, you know what, Carly, be a team player, leave the song on for everybody. And I was crawling out of my skin within 10 seconds. I'm like, can't do it, sorry. Skip, big fat skip. ⁓ I have one more example and then I wanna hear yours, but I feel like this is more so the conventional, like traditional way of how overthinking shows up for me. Last night I...
Jessica DeRose: You Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, Skip.
Karli Visconto: had a little bit of like a slower evening. We were supposed to podcast. We ended up pushing it to this morning and I had an extremely busy weekend. I literally did not stop from like Friday at 6 a.m. until Sunday at like 430. And I was debating going somewhere or not like something chill, just going over to hang at somebody's house. But like I could not make up my mind. And I'm like, well, it's still light out and it's early and I have a couple hours to kill. But if I go I know I have Westchester tomorrow and that's gonna be a long day and a late night and I've been on so I should really avoid burnout. But I'm kind of like bored now and it literally went on so much so I started getting ready to go to the place and I was like kind of ready 20 minutes. I'm like, actually no I don't wanna go. And I didn't. But it took that exercise of get up, go through the motions of going and see how you feel because I could not evaluate that in my own head. I had to like.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah.
Karli Visconto: bring it
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, well, I mean, that's like very... That is very...
Karli Visconto: That doesn't describe me as a person. I don't know what does.
Jessica DeRose: similar to my story that I have, but actually as you said that you had to go through it to decide, that actually reminded me of something that, so my answer now has changed to was I this way as a kid? Yes, because that, like you explaining that vividly brought me back to standing at my kitchen pantry at my parents' house and having lucky charms and cinnamon toast crunch in my hand and being like, do I want this one? Do I want this one? No, well I had.
Karli Visconto: Mmm.
Jessica DeRose: I had this one yesterday, but then I really want this one. But then, well, what if I have half and half? And then, but then no, but then that's like, literally, that's like what would go on in my head. And so what I would try to do is pick one and then be like, am I disappointed? Didn't really work. It never really works for me because I'm not able to fully commit, because I know it's trick. Does that make sense? So like, yes, I'm too smart.
Karli Visconto: I love doing that. ⁓ okay, nevermind. Mmm, you're too smart for your own good. Jess is like, yes, I'm a genius.
Jessica DeRose: Yes. No, mean, that is like, and it's just funny. think some people there's going to be a very great divide. It like people listening to this are going to be like, that's bonkers or they're going to be like, no, that's the dialogue that I have in my head. And I think it's like good for both sides to see, because like I said, it's such a silent battle to know. Like, even though we know these things are ridiculous in our head, like it does not stop those thoughts that are just racing and like
Karli Visconto: Complete sentence.
Jessica DeRose: They just won't ⁓
Karli Visconto: I was gonna say, I love that you brought up the whole exercise of like choose one and then evaluate how you're feeling. I'm curious if that doesn't work when you are the decider because you know that you can like go back on the decision. Does it ever help to introduce somebody else? Because I am either like that person that is like, let me decide for you. And then how do you feel now that I decided that?
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: or I will solicit somebody to do it for me and be like, okay, you just decide, you make the decision. And then if they choose the one in my like, my heart sinks a little bit, even though if it's like something so minuscule, like what flavor ice cream am I getting? That's my indication. ⁓ I wanted the other thing. But do you find that when someone else is making the decision for you, it allows you to like, because it feels more final.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I do defer to other people a lot, like, especially in like making decisions. I'll like present both both sides and how I'm feeling about each side and like what my reservations are. And then I'm like, well, what do you think? And I while I do do that, I also I'm like trying not to do that, because that's also not helping. Right. Like that's not helping the underlying fact of like, need to be able to do this myself. ⁓ So yeah, I mean, it definitely does help because then it's like, it just feels like it's not on me. And I think that like, kind of comes to our next point that we want to hit of like, what is this underlying? Like feeling or like, what is it that's like making us so indecisive? Is it the fear of making the wrong decision? Is it not having trust in ourselves? Or what is it, you know?
Karli Visconto: Yeah, I think kind of bringing it back to how we started for me, I do think it is anxiety and the desire to feel in control. But I also think it stems personally from me having been an athlete before and me always wanting to make decisions that make me feel like on my best game or at my best self. And so a lot of times when I am
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Karli Visconto: overthinking or having a tough time making a decision, it has to do with like my well-being or like how I'll feel in the future, whether it's like when I'm gonna eat or if I'm not gonna sleep as much because I choose to do one thing over the other. Like that's, think like the root and I think it all stems from anxiety and control, but I'm curious if that's the same for you.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Yeah, that's so funny because honestly, I think a lot of the situations that I overthink or that I like ruminate on like if I made the right decision or what I should do. I think it all does usually go back to trying to look out for my future self. And it's like such a weird thing. But I think I'm a little bit too conscious. And it sounds like you're the same exact way. Like I'm a little bit too conscious of like
Karli Visconto: Yes.
Jessica DeRose: the consequences or how I'm going to feel the next day because I or I'm too conscious. So then that causes me to be in this spiral of like considering my future self over my current self. And it's like, it's not always like a good thing. So my example that of like that happened recently, it was last Sunday. So yesterday,
Karli Visconto: I know exactly what you mean.
Jessica DeRose: was Sunday the day before or the Sunday before that I went to the Phillies game as well and it was like a one o'clock game. And so we were like getting out of the parking lot at just say like 430 and we have this restaurant that we love to go to in University City which is like super close kind of on the way home. And so we were hungry and we were like should we go to Han Dynasty. And it was like yeah like do you want to go because I had work the next day. And so he was like OK you have until. like 452 on this clock to decide it was like 450 and I was like okay well like partially saying this out loud but partially in my head I was like okay well like we have to eat like we're hungry and we're sitting in this parking lot in traffic trying to get out then we have an hour ride home so it's probably gonna be like realistically two hours and 15 minutes until we eat and then I'm gonna be like hangry I'm really hungry at that point But then if we go to Han Dynasty, then we're gonna be there for a little bit and then we still have to drive home and then we might get home later and then I have to shower still and I have to work tomorrow. ⁓ and then I didn't even pack my lunch yet, so I have to do that. And just the run around of, and I just cannot decide which one is more, has more pros instead of cons. And I was like, okay, well what do you think? And he was like,
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Jessica DeRose: I want to keep the fun going so we're going to go to haunt. And I was like, okay. And I was fine with that. But like, I was just trying to consider my future self so badly and there's been a couple times where like, that the same thing will happen. Like I'm doing something on a work night and I will just like literally say to myself like, no, I'm going to do this thing because I want to spend time with ex person or my family or whatever it is over being tired for work tomorrow. Like it's like, I can do it. Like I'm going to be tired when I get up and then. I'm gonna roll through the day just like I always do. ⁓ So, yeah, I feel like a lot of my indecisiveness, doesn't come from, like, it comes from anxiety for the future, truthfully.
Karli Visconto: I like that, I already knew we were very similar, but like hearing that internal dialogue, I almost knew what you were gonna say next. Because I know like your schedule and like the things that you might need to do before bed and like I am the same exact way of like over engineering everything and like weighing the pros and cons. And that's honestly how I make 99 % of the decisions in my life. It's like fully playing out each option and then choosing.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Karli Visconto: But doing that for everything on the table all day, every day is exhausting. I've gotten efficient at it and I feel like I can like do, do, do, do, do, do, but like everything's always like computing in my brain to lead me to the decision that's better for my future self, like you said. And it's anxiety in the future. It's anxiety of being hungry in the future or anxiety of being tired in the future or like ill prepared. Like I always want to be prepared.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. It's exhausting. Mm-hmm. Tired. Mm-hmm.
Karli Visconto: or on time or like, and so I honestly think it also stems from a little bit of like perfectionism or the tendency to like be an overachiever. I think it goes hand in hand that if you are a little bit of like a control freak or a little bit anxious by nature, you're also a little bit of a perfectionist and a high achiever. And so you're an over thinker as well. It's like a holy trinity.
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like you're overthinking? Like I kind of just explained how I feel like it's in more of a specific context. Do you feel like you're overthinking and like over analytical mind kind of translates into other areas of your life or is it kind of just like on that end? Like does it flow into work or like what you're gonna wear or whatever it is?
Karli Visconto: I think. So actually what I wear is not something that I overthink, that is like the one thing, but I was just about to say, I think a lot of my overthinking also stems from the perceptions of others. So just a silly example this morning that I clocked and was like, what the heck? I drove my dad's car to Pilates, because mine's all loaded up with the Westchester stuff. It looks like a fucking clown car right now. And I'm like, I'm not lugging that to Pilates. I got out and it took me a second to remember that I had my dad's car. So there was like two to three seconds where I was like standing in the parking lot being like, wait, where's my car? Like looking confused and kind of looking like an idiot. And then I was like, ⁓ I drove my dad's car today. And the fact that I said that out loud, like, ⁓ I drove my dad's car as if I was telling somebody else, indicated to me that I was saying that out loud to justify my current behavior to an external person looking in on the situation. Not to myself, because I wouldn't have been like, ⁓ my dad's car. would have been like, ⁓ I have dad's car. You know what I mean? I said it as if I was saying it to somebody else to justify what I was doing. And that was kind of like an aha moment of I was more concerned about, in a micro second did this all happen, but I was more concerned about the onlooker than myself. And so I think that absolutely does show up.
Jessica DeRose: ⁓ interesting. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: in instances when I'm overthinking a presentation at work. I'm overthinking it because I am so nervous about how I'm going to be perceived from my clients when I'm presenting. Same thing with like only human engagements. When I used to be really nervous when we stepped on stage, like I would overthink that and play it out in my head before we ever got to that moment because I was so scared of like the judgment and perception. So I think that's also like an undertone throughout.
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that's definitely like a very common emotion. And I think probably a lot of other people's that may not identify with like the anxiety about it. The anxiety portion of it, I think a lot of people would relate to that side of it is kind of like overthinking maybe in a setting where it's like after the fact, like maybe you just looked around in the parking lot and then had to put like your panic button on. And then you're driving home and you're like, ⁓ my God, did like all of my friends to see that, like that kind of overthinking post like action. And even though you kind of described like pre action, but also like, I think there's a lot of room for overthinking.
Karli Visconto: Yeah. Do you also feel like you worry about the perception of others? Is that how overthinking shows up for you? Or is it mainly like the anxiety and control and like your schedule and like considering your future self?
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, I think it's mostly in that setting. Because even when I said that I'm an over thinker to you, you were like, really? I'm indecisive to you. Really? I feel like you're very decisive. Because I think there are things that are, when they're very black and white, I'm able to decide which one I like better or I want to go with, whether it's a song or a post or whatever it is. I'm pretty good at like, calling on that intuition, but it's when there's things involved that are like emotion-based or like feeling, you know? Like even when you invited me to breakfast, like I was like, should I go? Like I knew that I like didn't really want to go in my current state, but I was like, should I go? Because like I really, you know, haven't seen her and I want to have girl time and I need to get away and like, and it's just, yeah.
Karli Visconto: which it's. You know what this reminds me of? You know when they say stressing about eating the food is more harmful for your body than just eating the food, right? So if you're sitting there and we'll just keep rolling with the donuts from last week, there's a donut sitting in front of you and you're like, I really want it, but that's so bad for me and it so much sugar and so much fat and it's gonna spike my blood sugar, Versus if you're like, hmm, I want that, you eat it and you move on with your day. They always say like,
Jessica DeRose: and eating the food. Mmm.
Karli Visconto: the toll on your nervous system from getting yourself all worked up about the donut is worse than just having the freaking donut itself. It makes me see a parallel with this in terms of us always wanting to do something that will leave us better off in our future state. But in our current state, we're stressing ourselves the hell out because we are projecting and we're going over and over and over the details and weighing the pros and cons.
Jessica DeRose: Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: And it's making our nervous system be in overdrive all the time. Constant stimulation, constant inability to turn the brain off. And it's just making me realize that in itself is more damaging than getting thrown off of our routine now and again.
Jessica DeRose: ⁓ my god. Overdrive. Yeah, yeah, no, I definitely can see that. And it's just so much mental energy that it takes up to be it to go back and forth and back and forth and be like, I don't know. And and then make the decision and be like, is this the right decision? Am I going to regret this decision? I as I'm talking, I'm like, think I actually this like all of my anxiety is around work and having to wake up the next day or like being like, ⁓ like I have to work two in a row because that will. impact my decision. Like if I'm only working one and then I have another day off, I'm like, okay, I can stay out later and do things like I have more tolerance because I'm like, I just have to do one day, I can do anything for one day. So yeah, when I get a fully remote job, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be like out on the town all the time. I'm gonna be making all the decisions.
Karli Visconto: I also think you're gonna be making decisions for yourself and other people. You're gonna be like, random person on the street, this is what you're doing today. I think your situation with work is a little bit unique though, because you're a pediatric ER nurse. So like you are literally saving lives. Like your job is not for the faint of heart and it is like a very serious. So do you think that plays a role? Like if you were signing on for...
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am a decision maker now. Mm-hmm.
Karli Visconto: a silly consulting job. Like people are always like, I don't have a real job. I work in corporate America. The people that have the real jobs are the ones on like the front lines, like dealing with people and again, saving lives. So do you think that plays into it because you take your job so seriously? Okay. At least she's honest.
Jessica DeRose: I really, that was beautiful, but now I don't. I think it's just the fact that I have to wake up at 4.50 and I want to, what did I say? I like hate myself when I wake up. I mean, even if I have a full 10 hours of sleep, I'm still gonna feel tired because it's just so early, but like I just like hate myself when my alarm goes off and I have to get out of bed to have like a 16 hour day. Like I'm just like.
Karli Visconto: Yeah.
Jessica DeRose: That's like so anxiety inducing for me.
Karli Visconto: And especially if you're like, I shot myself in the foot because I could have been well rested. I could have made like the adult decision to like go to bed at a decent time so that when my alarm goes off. Yeah, I think that also stems from like your deep desire to just feel good, right? And like feel in control. ⁓ Speaking of at work though, do you ever battle with indecisiveness in the workplace? Like you have to make split second decisions at times, I'm sure. Like, do you ever feel yourself questioning?
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: the right thing to do.
Jessica DeRose: No, I don't.
Karli Visconto: Do you think it's because there's more of a right thing to do and there's less room for weighing options? It's like, ⁓ this is the right protocol.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, I mean, I think when I think about having to make decisions, I think about kind of. triaging what is most important for me to do first. And I think that's just in my work. I think that's just a muscle that I've ⁓ worked so much that I inherently kind of just know like I need to do this first. need this can wait. ⁓ Or if I have competing priorities, then I know that I can delegate one of them or so I think it's I've gotten to a point where maybe in the beginning just because I didn't have enough experience I would maybe think a little bit harder about like what to do first, but I think I've just like, practiced and like use that muscle so much that I like pretty much know. Like, I don't really there's not like a lot of ruminating or like decisions to be made. It's kind of just like, it is what it is. And you have to make decisions quickly. So you just get used to that like decisiveness.
Karli Visconto: Yeah. Yeah, well what I'm hearing from you is it's a muscle that you've built and so you've practiced being decisive but you also really sound like you have assurance and confidence in yourself to operate in, you know, a moment's notice and make the right decision and I think that can be applied across the board because I think sometimes when we are overthinking something or over analyzing a situation and kind of feeling like analysis paralysis and you're like I cannot make a decision it's because We don't have the confidence in ourselves and we second guess ourselves in terms of the decision that we make, is it the right one? And I think that inability to like just be confident in the one that you do choose and just move on with your day, like I think that's a really huge hindering factor.
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I that's very true. think in like we're talking about overthinking and like as it relates to being indecisive and making decisions, like I think that's it is a really big stem from being confident and kind of like we're describing. You can be confident in some areas of your life and not be confident in others and it causes you to overthink in those areas instead of like other areas. Like just like if you decide, well, that's kind of a bad example. was gonna say like decide what. color to paint your room. You know that you don't want it to be blue. If somebody gave you the option between blue and gray, you would choose gray because you know you like gray more. But it's just because you're confident that that is your liking. I don't know.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, isn't it funny though, as I'm hearing you talk, I'm reflecting on if I'm a good decision maker for other people. And the answer is yes. Like I am the most decisive person, if anybody ever asks me an opinion, so rarely will I say, I don't know, or like it doesn't matter. Like I am a decisive person when it's at the disposal of somebody else, like yeah. But for me, I'm like, I actually.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. it comes to other people. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: I'm calling on other people and that's something I wanted to ask you about because you mentioned with dinner the other night going to Han like and kind of being you have until you know this time to make a decision and I think it's a really interesting thing to explore how our over analytical mind affects others because it absolutely does and I know ways that I've seen it affect my relationships, but I'm curious if you found that it has affected yours with an or just family and friends in general.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I feel like we'd have to ask him this question because he I feel like is kind of the one that was like You are really bad at making decisions. Like you can't just figure it out. Was like, ⁓ yeah, actually, you're right. I like he's my like light bulb. He's like mmm like I'd ever tell you the story about like I was having like Palpitate like heart palpitations and like my heart was racing all the time and I like went to the cardiologist and he's like, okay, so everything looks good like and you're drinking a ton of water, like you're not dehydrated. He's like, do you have anxiety? And I was like, no. And I went, I was like, we can check that one off. And I go home and tell Aunt that. And I was like, yeah, he kind of like doesn't know like what's going on. like, you know, and he asked me if I have anxiety and I was like, no. And he's like, what? You told him you don't? I was like, do I? And he's like, he literally goes, he's like, ⁓
Karli Visconto: Are you sure? He's like, babe, I've known this about you since you were 11.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, I sit with you when you're in the car and I know that you have anxiety because when he's driving, I'm like, I like consciously try not to do this, but it's so hard. Like I'm just like moving, like I'll readjust my seatbelt or like I'll turn the volume up or like turn the heat warmer on or and then touch my phone. And then I'll be like, like I'm always like doing something. But that's like so it's so weird. I don't know if it's just the car because that's just not me. Like I am very like.
Karli Visconto: Wait, that's crazy. Vigiting. You are, you're very calming presence.
Jessica DeRose: calm and zen. I think that's when I realized that my anxiety is, aside from when I'm in the car apparently, is just so internal. Probably 95 % of the people in my life, if you ask them, or that know me, if you ask them to just have anxiety, they would be like, And so that, I think... Well, now we're on an anxiety tangent. I think for a really long time, I looked at anxiety as this external thing that other people can see and you can almost visualize. But my anxiety is just all in here. It doesn't really manifest in a hyperactivity.
Karli Visconto: Yes, which just goes to show anxiety manifests so differently for different people. And it really is a silent battle to a lot because it's not something that's portrayed to the outside world. And even you, you lived with anxiety and you couldn't even really put your finger on it. You didn't even know that was something that you were battling. So not only was it a silent battle, but it was one that you weren't even aware of at the time. So how could you ever intervene?
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. I know it was it was so silent. I didn't even know that it was there. My sister just commented. Um, you have anxiety. I said 95 % of the people in my life would not know that you are in the 5 % unfortunately.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, she's, yeah, sis. You know her better than anybody. ⁓ Do you ever find that your overthinking affects your sleep? Like, will you find yourself waking up in the middle of the night? Because that's one of my biggest symptoms. I will wake up, my brain literally is in beta mode when I'm sleeping, and I will have like these come to Jesus moments when I'm like turning over in my slumber at 3 a.m. And there's times where I'll have to pull out my phone and make a to-do list. It doesn't stop. My brain never shuts off. Do you find that that's something that you battle with or you're able to turn it off at the end of the night?
Jessica DeRose: As per usual, I think it's a complicated answer because I do remember times where, like I'm just thinking about when I was living at my old house, like there were times when I was doing that all the time. And that's like a lot of the time that my heart was racing and I was noticing my heart racing is when I was lying in bed trying to relax. And I don't really know what has changed since then, but like since then, like, my anxiety, my palpitations, like all my physical symptoms, like my overthinking when I'm trying to relax, like those have kind of resolved. I don't really know why, but there was a point where that was happening to me, but now I'm pretty much, unless there's like, just say we had like a really big event like tomorrow, then maybe I would think about it or if there's something I'm excited about, but not really like any bad overthinking, like when I'm trying to relax. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, like not on a day-to-day basis, yeah.
Jessica DeRose: but does that happen to you pretty often?
Karli Visconto: ⁓ Yeah, I would say again, I do think it ebbs and flows like when there's something big coming up and there's like a lot of logistics or details that need to be like worked out and I don't want anything to fall through the cracks like I'm definitely more so on overdrive but I'm also the type of person that because I have so many thoughts crossing my head at every moment of every day like I just need to like brain dump a lot so I find myself able to cope by pulling out my phone and just writing things in a note app or
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: taking out my journal or like schedule and just writing it down. And then once it's out of my brain, I'm like, okay, I can exhale because I think I'm so fearful that I'm gonna forget something and then never think about it ever again. And I don't want to drop the ball.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Same. Yeah, because how many times does that happen? You like remember something and you're like, ⁓ my god, I almost forgot that. And you're like, what if I did forget that, but you didn't, but you're just like, what if I did and then I wouldn't have done this? And then, yeah, no, I totally can see that. And I do like, I definitely do that, but I don't think it's like, because of overthinking, but that's like actually one of my most favorite tools is whenever I'm thinking about something, writing it down.
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jessica DeRose: because then I can, like you said, just get it out of my brain and be like, okay, I don't have to think about this anymore because it is somewhere. And I think that's why journaling is very therapeutic too. And I'm like, you can definitely speak to this because I don't really journal, but it just feels like you're getting these things out and then they can just be there and they don't have to be up here.
Karli Visconto: Yes, yes. I'm curious, something that I've kind of realized as I was writing out these notes and like reflecting on how my overthinking could potentially come off to other people or how it feels to me even sometimes. I feel like it's very self-indulgent to be living in your head all the time. And it kind of manifests as like being very self-absorbed in my opinion because Even when I lean on my friends or like my mom to like help make decisions, it's extremely draining for them to always be weighing out options. And I know that I do that because I like soliciting other people's input and getting different perspectives because I want to make sure that there's not something I'm missing, whether it's, you know, how I should proceed forward or maybe how my actions would like affect somebody else. I want to always make sure I have like all pieces of information.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah.
Karli Visconto: to make an informed decision. And that requires me like tapping other people in and phoning a friend very often, whether it's a small decision or a large one. But then I think about like, how tiring that would be for them to have to go through that exercise of weighing options and giving me their opinion. And again, it seems to me like it's it's selfish, because it's like asking a lot of the other people in your life. And of course, they want to support you, but there's also a fine line, you know?
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think there's definitely a line. Like, I mean, if it's like what cereal to eat for breakfast, I think that can get really exhausting, but I think it's really normal. And like, that's why we have friendships and relationships to be able to tap into those people because they know you really well, number one, and they're an outsider. Like you said, there's so much power in perspective. And so what might seem like a really hard decision for you actually seems really easy from the outside because they're looking at it so objectively.
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. That's true. That's very true.
Jessica DeRose: You know, so I think like, like you said, there's a really healthy line and boundaries, but I think, you know, like what are friends and family for if they're not there for that kind of support and like perspective, you know, it just like not abusing that power or like crossing that line. I think it's tricky.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, that's a good point. ⁓ Yeah. And I guess like along the lines of it feeling like self-indulgent or being like self-absorbed, I used the example of external and that is a great like rebuttal. Like, well, they actually would probably want to show up for you, especially if it's an important decision or like something that you want to work through. Like they'd be more than happy to be that person. But then I think on the other end, with it being like an internal battle, it's like how much mental energy do I spend projecting like my schedule in the future or thinking about future me and how I'm going to feel like Can I free up some of that brain capacity to think about others, help others, pray to God, pray for other people? You know what I mean? How much mental energy I tie up thinking about myself because of my anxiety, you could do so much more good with that.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Mm-hmm yourself. Yeah Oh my God, I love that. It's really true. And it doesn't even have to be like, just taking the selflessness part out of it. You can just, if you wanted to stay selfish, you could take that energy and put it into more productive things. Like, because it's just straight up not productive. Like, even just taking it a step down, like starting with like actually using it towards things that are productive, you know?
Karli Visconto: Right? Hmm? Yeah, which I think is kind of at the point that we're both at where we're like, we're aware, but like, how do we actually take this to the next step and like, try to incorporate some tangible, you know, action items of like, well, how can we maybe change this because like, it's not really being super serving right now in the moment. So I guess if anybody's listening and like empathizing with us, like, is there anything in your mind at this point of like anything that you feel like
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: you can do better or what can we do to just trust ourselves a little bit more in decision making and eliminate that over-engineering of thought.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, well that'll be open-ended. We'll wait for those answers because I clearly don't have them at this point. But it's going to be.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, I know. I feel like tuning into the gut and less the head. Like I feel like your body sometimes knows even like in a little, even in a little decisions, like going with the feeling and like taking your mind out of the equation and just like making a quick decision and not being fearful that it's the wrong one. Like forget the, forget that fear.
Jessica DeRose: the guy. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think you're on like a gut feeling kick right now. You're putting your mind to the wayside, but I think there's a good balance.
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. Shots fired.
Jessica DeRose: You're leaning into the gut right now.
Karli Visconto: And you know what? Yes, I am.
Jessica DeRose: No, think there's a really, there is a really good balance because it's like, maybe you do want to go out and party until one in the morning, but you have work tomorrow. Like that's like a, you know what I mean? I don't know. That's like a very easy example, but I do think like we, would be a lot better served if we just listened to our intuition, which is like, I feel like our gut feeling and just went with it. And you know what I feel like?
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jessica DeRose: It's also, if you feel like you're using one over the other, then try to use the other one and see how that feels, because it might feel better. You know what I mean? I don't know.
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Actually, one piece of advice, I'm thinking as I'm hearing you talk, what has actually helped me is always, okay, when you are like brought a choice, one inherently makes you feel more expansive. One inherently makes you feel more constrained or constricted. And like tuning into like, if I make this decision,
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm.
Karli Visconto: It's something that you can actually feel instantaneously. It's not like a timely or like a lengthy exercise to like go through that, but it is like a feeling that you get if like this decision makes me feel bigger or smaller. And like it could be the stupidest thing. can be like applied to ice cream flavors. It can, but like I feel like you said, like you're shaking your head. Like I don't think so.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Well, I'm just like, okay, that's like, that would contribute to my indecisiveness, I think, like, because I'm like, okay, for the Han dynasty example, which one makes me feel expanded? Like, I don't know. It's like dinner. I'm like, I'm not saying it's not a good exercise. I'm just like, I feel like that adding that piece to it for me, then I have to decide which one it is.
Karli Visconto: Really? Okay. Yeah. It's just like one other thing in the mix. Mm-hmm. Okay, yeah.
Jessica DeRose: And then I'm like, does it make me feel like, know what I mean? I don't know. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but like, yeah.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, I found that that tool works for me, but I maybe it's not for everybody. Well, we clearly don't have the answers. So hopefully nobody came here for any sort of takeaways because this was just a swirl.
Jessica DeRose: Karlie's like, well, I tried. Well, okay, Rachel had a good, she has a good ending for us. It says, be okay with the result either way and be satisfied with simply making a decision in the first place and know it'll be okay no matter what. This is true, it's not life or death. Getting Han Dynasty, it's not life or death. It's actually life. I know, and I don't take my own advice.
Karli Visconto: ⁓ I love that. Everything is life or death. It's not that serious. You say that a lot actually. Well, it starts today.
Jessica DeRose: All right, I'm deciding that you're going first with your only human moment because there we're on a cliffhanger here I looked at our document because we do like a little rough outline just to help us so that we don't swirl in thought So we put our only human moment on there. So because I Will be both have a really hard time coming up with our only human moment, even though we have a million a day
Karli Visconto: What is? Okay, I was just gonna say. Yeah. We still do.
Jessica DeRose: So I go on to put in my only human moment and I see that Carly says pants slash sidewalk and that's it. But it's probably because last week I gave you shit for putting a whole paragraph. I was like, you didn't have to go into all that detail. So then she left me with a little bit and so we are just eager to hear what this story is.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, I said fine, I'll breadcrumb instead. So I feel like a lot of my only human moments up to this point have been like, ⁓ I felt guilty doing this or I was sad or anxious. No, this is just purely an embarrassing ass story. So Saturday morning was the Pilates event with Flawless Fitness. And I just take a very quick.
Jessica DeRose: You
Karli Visconto: walk before I have to leave the house. At like 10 to 15 minutes, it was beautiful outside. And I was like, I just want to get like a little bit of movement in and just feel the sun on my face. So I'm basically in my pajamas, I'm wearing like these, like very comfy, stretchy, wide leg sweatpants. And I'm walking around the block and I'm like multitasking. At one point, I'm like looking in my phone, my pant leg because they're so wide and they're long. must have gotten stuck on the sidewalk. Like there was like a divot in the sidewalk or like a little like lip, it got stuck on it. And I keep walking because I don't realize it. This sidewalk holds on to my sweatpants. Not only do my sweatpants rip, they get yanked down. My whole ass is out in the street. My pants, I get pantsed by the sidewalk. And...
Jessica DeRose: ⁓ my God.
Karli Visconto: I am stuck on this sidewalk. My pants are literally down to my knee. I turn around, there is this sweet man with his baby outside and he's like, hey, how's it going? And I was like, did you just see that? I'm like, I am so sorry. Look the other way, please. I literally like take my pants off the sidewalk, pull up my pants and keep moving. And you know what? I have the culprit right here to show.
Jessica DeRose: No. Not good. Don't ask me that. ⁓ my God.
Karli Visconto: This is my pants that have a hole in it. And you can see how stretchy they are, like this stretchy material. So yeah, I mooned the whole block and it wasn't even 8 AM yet. So that's great.
Jessica DeRose: my god. I don't think I would have shown my face for the rest of the day. and you just know somebody's ring camera caught that. If you live on Carly's box, please, we need this video. Oh my God. That's so bad.
Karli Visconto: Gosh, yeah, I've worked so hard all my life to never have nobody ever has footage of me like that No, I've boy. I'm a good girl, but damn Saturday morning when you go home to walk Yeah, it'll get you. So yeah, I'm only human
Jessica DeRose: ⁓ my god. So what's your takeaway? Are you never wearing long stretchy pants again or are you not gonna try to like look in your phone again? Like what was the lesson? No.
Karli Visconto: I wish I could say one of the two, but I think it was just a really unfortunate occurrence, wrong place, wrong time. That was a freak event. And I love wide leg, stretchy sweatpants. That's a trademark of mine. And I also love to multitask while I'm on a walk. There's probably gonna be texts being rattled off and emails being answered, just at all hours of the day, actually. So yeah, no takeaways, just embarrassment.
Jessica DeRose: ⁓ yeah, there is. my God, I'm so sorry for you. That is so bad.
Karli Visconto: It's okay, we persist. What's your only human moment?
Jessica DeRose: I should have went first, honestly. Mine's not that crazy, but I also came with a very stupid, tangible one. It wasn't an emotion. I don't know if it was, because when I saw yours, it kind of sparked mine, because mine also had to do with concrete, but it was that. I was just being, I had my water bottle. Okay, so I just ran. and I was sitting in the sun at the park and I had my water bottle and I took my like air pod maxes off, right? These things are like $500 plus. I put them on my water bottle, like as if the water bottle was my head because I didn't want to put them on the ground because it was concrete. And I was like filming a TikTok and I don't know what, I think I went to move my water bottle out of the way because I was using it as like a stand or like move it back. and they just like popped off and I scratched the shit out of them. Like, it's like, here I'll show you. Like the place where like it's nice. Like I'm like this is why I can't have nice things. It actually doesn't look that bad, but like this. Yeah, you can't even see.
Karli Visconto: So they fell onto the concrete and got scratched. Almost like, that's unfortunate though, because those are really nice. Yeah, it's like sleek.
Jessica DeRose: But like this like nice like part of it got scratched. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: And it sucks because you can't even, I can see it though a little bit. I wouldn't have like noticed it if you were just walking by, but that sucks because like it's gonna bother you more than it bothers anyone else. Like you're gonna be staring at it.
Jessica DeRose: It's not even that bad, but. ⁓ my god, it's gonna bother me, because I just like, don't wanna have nice things that aren't nice. Like, what the heck's the point? You know? But, ⁓ my god, no.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, and you can't do anything about scratches. It's like when you get a new like Stanley or a Walla and you drop it and it's like, I mean, like, and now I just have to throw it out. Now you're dead to me.
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm, there's like a dent and now it's yeah like Yeah, just like not nice anymore just defeats the whole purpose so That was sad. I was so you know like when you do something stupid, and you're just like So pissed at yourself because it was just that split second, and it was like You're just like can I just redo that like because it just happened so fast Yeah
Karli Visconto: Yeah. Yeah, and you're like, I knew better. Well, it's okay. You're only human. Alright. We do!
Jessica DeRose: Well, we have an exciting rest of our day. We are going to Westchester later and we're going to do something different. It's like a Pilates, but it's ⁓ like, what would you call
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. So it's really showcasing, like in our previous live podcast ⁓ events, we talk about like the college experience, but this one is catered to female college athletes. And Jess is gonna be stepping into the interview role and I'm gonna be stepping into the hot seat. And it's gonna be all about like the female college athlete experience. And we're gonna be talking about things like performance anxiety and healthy hormones, realistic habits for college students. ⁓ recovery body image like so much and it's really just gonna be like all of my ⁓ Experience and it's all just gonna be like anecdotal evidence from me So it'll be like a little bit of like storytelling instead of coming at it from like a clinical like professional mindset Which I think will have the ability to like emotionally resonate more with the college students and then yeah We're gonna also kick things off with a little like Matt Pilates flow. So I'm excited Yeah, we have so many goodies for this
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. be fine Really? Like I have no idea what we have. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: Like we have so much PR, yeah. We have a little bit of everything. I actually have to go put that together before. ⁓ But yeah, very, very excited. That's at 7 p.m. tonight, so we have a long day ahead.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, we do. All right, well, thanks everybody for tuning in. We will see you next time. Bye.
Karli Visconto: Bye!
Karli Visconto: Wait, actually, I feel like I wear it all the freaking time. I love it. It's so comfy.
Jessica DeRose: No, I don't think I have. No, it's so cute. I'm obsessed with the mock neck look right now, except like every single one's like $70 and I'm like, I'm not buying.
Karli Visconto: I was just gonna say I wish we could like sell this as merch but I paid a pretty penny for it and I almost didn't do it and this is my company so nobody else would
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, so like, yeah, it's a good benchmark to see if people will pay for it or not. ⁓ my gosh, it is really cute though.
Karli Visconto: Exactly. We need to get you one.
Jessica DeRose: I need, I'm like, I need to switch up. I'm like tired of the same old rotation. Cause it's like all the only sweatshirts I wear are my only human ones. My three only human ones.
Karli Visconto: I gotta be honest, I'm like a little sick of our merch across the board.
Jessica DeRose: I know, me too. I mean, it's been a year, right? I mean, that's when we usually are like, we're good. We get the itch for things after a year. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: True. something new, although I guess we can tease a little bit. We're currently designing some hats for summer. We're gonna add some color against all things that I stand for. Jess has strong-armed me. But it'll be fun. We're coming out with a new little design and yeah, a couple skews for the summertime.
Jessica DeRose: ⁓ my gosh. Yeah, that Carly stands for. Yeah. Ooh, fancy. Why are you so far away today? I'm like trying to back up to meet you and you're just really far. There we go. That's better. Okay, fine. Fair.
Karli Visconto: Well, initially we talking about my sweatshirt, so then I was letting it be shown. And then I also have said previously, I don't like when the camera is so close to my face. Nobody needs to be this close to me. ⁓ my gosh, how are you? We're recording in the morning again. So good morning.
Jessica DeRose: Yes, I know I'm like I think I can get behind this I mean it's not 7 a.m. Or anything, but I think I can get behind a morning recording
Karli Visconto: Yeah, nice and fresh. How was your?
Jessica DeRose: Yay, Rachel said, yay color to hats. ⁓ I know exactly which one she's gonna get. She's a pink girly. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: Which one? Pink will be cute.
Jessica DeRose: You're like literally you're crossing your fingers while you say that honestly You're like you won't catch me in any of these colors Will not wear her own merch
Karli Visconto: I know. I'm cringing. Well, that's why, don't worry. Anybody that is not a color girl, we are ordering a nice tan color. So it's gonna be a monochromatic look with a beige hat and then a little bit of a darker tan coffee look. So there'll be something for everyone, even me.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, even you. We had to all-inclusive for Carly, but.
Karli Visconto: Exactly. How was your night yesterday? I like you guys went into the city, right? Once the rain stopped and the sun came out.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, we did. So we did go into the city. We did not do what we planned to do. The funniest thing, we were like trying to find something to do indoors because it was raining yesterday. mean, obviously the city is like 45 minutes, but we're like, screw it. We'll just, neither of us work today. going, like, we'll go down into the city, do something we're going to do, mini golf and a comedy show. Perfect night. Well, so we're getting ready and the sun just comes out. and it's like shining and we're like, wait, the Phillies are playing tonight. And we looked at the tickets and they were like ridiculously cheap. So we went to the Phillies game instead. Yeah, we got there like two hours early, like literally they were like closing up from batting practice. Like we were so early, which is ridiculous because we usually miss the first pitch because we're late. ⁓ But yeah, so it was so fun. I mean, they ended up losing, but they started out like better than they have been, I think.
Karli Visconto: ⁓ my god. I literally texted it, the Phillies are winning for once. And then five minutes later, we were down by two. And I was like, okay, perfect. And then I didn't actually look at the result of the game when I woke up this morning. I went to bed before it ended. So I'm sad to hear they lost. But that makes sense why the tickets were, tickets? What the hell? The tickets were so cheap. ⁓ my gosh, my brain.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, no. What the shit? Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, well, and actually started. So when we left, it was like completely sunny, like it had never rained and there was no rain on the radar for the night. And then literally as they were getting ready to throw the first pitch of the game, it started raining. So we like we got wet. It wasn't like terrible, but it was definitely like I think we stood in the concourse for like the first inning and watched and then like had to our seats off and stuff. And it was Hold. We were icicles yesterday, it was freezing.
Karli Visconto: Yet this week in general looks cold again. I'm like, what the hell? Can spring just stay a minute?
Jessica DeRose: I know I'm not here for it. Goes back to our previous conversation. I'm just like, yeah, now give it all or don't give me anything, you know. I want all the nice weather. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, well, it's not abiding. I know. ⁓ I'm excited for our episode today because it kind of came about in like a we both were feeling it and I had an idea of what to talk about and then you had an idea and then we kind of just combined the two. So really like the general theme is like overthinking and being extremely indecisive, which is something I think we both battle with.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah.
Karli Visconto: And I don't know why we battle with it so much. And I always ask myself the question, like, is it normal? Like, is it just part of being human to just like always have like this cyclical thought in your head and like rumination of the same thing over and over again? And I don't have an answer for that. Like, do you know if it's normal? Do you think the average person battles with that?
Jessica DeRose: I don't know either. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's what I was gonna say is like, overthinking is one of those things that's like such a silent battle. Like you don't really know. To say that it's like normal, probably not. It's probably not super healthy to be like in cyclical thought and you know, overthinking like little tiny things like I tend to do. ⁓ But I think it's very common.
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's very true.
Jessica DeRose: And it's very hard to articulate, I will say. Like, I think it's a difficult feeling to like explain other than just explaining your thought process of like the back and forth.
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. Yeah. When you think about yourself overthinking, like, has that always been a characteristic trait of yours? Like, does that stem back from childhood? You've always been that way? Or is that something you've kind of stepped into in your adulthood?
Jessica DeRose: I've stepped into. For the better or worse.
Karli Visconto: You stepped into the power of overthinking.
Jessica DeRose: It's so funny because I have a hard time remembering myself as a child, like my inner thoughts. So I don't think so, but I don't really know. ⁓ I think it's something that has like just come along with my anxiety as I have gotten older. Does that make sense? I think you might have a different answer than me though. What, like, what do you think for yourself?
Karli Visconto: 100%. No, I was gonna say actually, like, I do think I've always been an over thinker, but I think it stems from my anxiety. I think it's extremely intertwined. And like, obviously, we kind of laid out some like thought starters for this podcast episode. And I was like, just kind of answering it because I was like, this can have the ability to really be like a high level.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah.
Karli Visconto: confusing, rambly episode and I didn't want that. Like I wanted to actually come with some concrete examples and so it really made me reflect before pressing record today. And I was like, ⁓ my gosh, yeah, I think it does stem from anxiety. And when I give examples of like what overthinking looks like or how it shows up in my relationships or, you know, me at work and my productivity, like I think we'll really like see that.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Karli Visconto: ⁓ So yeah, I think I've always been an over thinker, but I think the nature of my overthinking has just changed in terms of how it manifests throughout my life.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, yeah, I think I don't even know when it was, but I think it was very recently that I kind of like took note of like what was actually going on in my head. think otherwise I was kind of just so deep into it, but I've since been able to like kind of take a step back and view like what's going on in my head objectively and kind of like be like, what the hell? Like this is crazy. And I think I'm at the point right now where I'm like, I now recognize what I'm doing and I'm like, this is crazy and exhausting. Like crazy meaning like, this doesn't need to happen. Like it's just so ridiculous. But yeah, so I'm at this point where I'm like in the observation period, but I'm like, it doesn't stop the thoughts from happening or like allow me to like come to a decision quicker or stop overthinking. Like, I don't know, I'm just in this like observation phase.
Karli Visconto: Well, I feel like that's the first step, right? They always say the first step is awareness, but what a powerful exercise to go through because the power of perspective, it's so easy to live in your own head and that is the only way that you know. And it's not until you develop another perspective or point of view and compare it against what might be normal, you would never know that the loop that you're stuck in that's exhausting and overboard is not.
Jessica DeRose: ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so true.
Karli Visconto: how your brain was meant to be wired and meant to like conduct itself day in and day out and how other people aren't going through that experience. And so like, just take a step back and be like, actually, this is something that I'm going through, but like, it doesn't have to be this way. This isn't quote unquote, like normal. Only then can you then initiate a change, you know?
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Yeah, no, I totally agree. ⁓ I feel like I've been talking a lot in the hypothetical, so let's get a little tangible for a sec. What do you think, what's something that, when you think of overthinking, what's something that you've overthought recently? Walk me through what that was like.
Karli Visconto: I actually have two examples. ⁓ One of them was my Pilates playlist for Saturday. We went to Mason Mills Park for the Flawless Fitness member appreciation celebration. And I taught that class and I had curated this playlist. And I'm always extremely intentional about the songs that I play. And I always wonder if other Pilates instructors are equally as intentional or really think through their playlist. But I'm always like, I always start with the same song and end with the same song, but in terms of the warm up, I'm like, we start slow and then we get a little bit quicker and then I wanna throw in some rap and then I like to keep the people on their toes and never know what song comes next. So I very much over thought that. But then fast forward to Saturday, my Spotify was on some fucking bullshit place setting and it was pulling in songs from absolutely nowhere. It wasn't even on my playlist. My playlist was playing out of order.
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm.
Karli Visconto: And so the whole thing went to shit. Well, I don't think it's very smart. I think it's stupid. ⁓ So it all went to shit. But you know what? I rolled with the punches and it was fine. So like that was kind of like a pure example of something that I put a lot of thought into and effort into that like didn't even need to be. ⁓
Jessica DeRose: It was Smart Shuffle, by the way, for the audience. It was on Smart Shuffle. haha Yeah. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: done in the first place. Like yes, it's a nice to have, but like Carly, didn't need to take it that seriously because it ended up just going off the walls anyway.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, I mean, I'm curious. I think there is a difference between being very intentional and like that's kind of like your brand and your like passion. So like you enjoy curating these playlists. It's for a specific reason. So I'm curious if there was a line where it was like, it's not anymore just being intentional. It's being overthought.
Karli Visconto: That's a great question, because I completely agree. And I am extremely intentional because I think it all curates the experience that I want to give the people taking my class. And I take note of those details when I'm taking other people's class and it actually affects my time. So I do think there's a line and there has been times in the past where I spend way too much time looking for that last song.
Jessica DeRose: The perfect song. Yeah, for sure.
Karli Visconto: Yes, to like get me to that 45 minute mark. So there is a line, I think with this playlist, because I hadn't taught in a while and I was trying to find songs, I did spend more time than I would have liked. And I think I knew that going in. So that was the case of overthinking. ⁓ Just one other example. Yeah.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Rachel said she hates Smart Shuffle, by the way. You guys should create a Smart Shuffle hater group or something.
Karli Visconto: It's perfect. will create the group and then create the petition because that was a shit show on Saturday. It wasn't even like songs that I was like vibing with. I'm like, this isn't even the same genre of what's on my playlist. Like, this is just sabotage.
Jessica DeRose: You're gonna organize. Yeah, you were like... was so funny because at one point, and we're going off the rails here, but at one point there was like a song playing and Karly was like, what is this? Like, sorry, this is not on my playlist, but we're gonna go with it. Five seconds later, okay, sorry, I can't do it, changes the song.
Karli Visconto: It was Kesha and I'm like, okay, the girls seemed excited about it. They're like, I haven't heard Kesha in forever. So I'm like, you know what, Carly, be a team player, leave the song on for everybody. And I was crawling out of my skin within 10 seconds. I'm like, can't do it, sorry. Skip, big fat skip. ⁓ I have one more example and then I wanna hear yours, but I feel like this is more so the conventional, like traditional way of how overthinking shows up for me. Last night I...
Jessica DeRose: You Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, Skip.
Karli Visconto: had a little bit of like a slower evening. We were supposed to podcast. We ended up pushing it to this morning and I had an extremely busy weekend. I literally did not stop from like Friday at 6 a.m. until Sunday at like 430. And I was debating going somewhere or not like something chill, just going over to hang at somebody's house. But like I could not make up my mind. And I'm like, well, it's still light out and it's early and I have a couple hours to kill. But if I go I know I have Westchester tomorrow and that's gonna be a long day and a late night and I've been on so I should really avoid burnout. But I'm kind of like bored now and it literally went on so much so I started getting ready to go to the place and I was like kind of ready 20 minutes. I'm like, actually no I don't wanna go. And I didn't. But it took that exercise of get up, go through the motions of going and see how you feel because I could not evaluate that in my own head. I had to like.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah.
Karli Visconto: bring it
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, well, I mean, that's like very... That is very...
Karli Visconto: That doesn't describe me as a person. I don't know what does.
Jessica DeRose: similar to my story that I have, but actually as you said that you had to go through it to decide, that actually reminded me of something that, so my answer now has changed to was I this way as a kid? Yes, because that, like you explaining that vividly brought me back to standing at my kitchen pantry at my parents' house and having lucky charms and cinnamon toast crunch in my hand and being like, do I want this one? Do I want this one? No, well I had.
Karli Visconto: Mmm.
Jessica DeRose: I had this one yesterday, but then I really want this one. But then, well, what if I have half and half? And then, but then no, but then that's like, literally, that's like what would go on in my head. And so what I would try to do is pick one and then be like, am I disappointed? Didn't really work. It never really works for me because I'm not able to fully commit, because I know it's trick. Does that make sense? So like, yes, I'm too smart.
Karli Visconto: I love doing that. ⁓ okay, nevermind. Mmm, you're too smart for your own good. Jess is like, yes, I'm a genius.
Jessica DeRose: Yes. No, mean, that is like, and it's just funny. think some people there's going to be a very great divide. It like people listening to this are going to be like, that's bonkers or they're going to be like, no, that's the dialogue that I have in my head. And I think it's like good for both sides to see, because like I said, it's such a silent battle to know. Like, even though we know these things are ridiculous in our head, like it does not stop those thoughts that are just racing and like
Karli Visconto: Complete sentence.
Jessica DeRose: They just won't ⁓
Karli Visconto: I was gonna say, I love that you brought up the whole exercise of like choose one and then evaluate how you're feeling. I'm curious if that doesn't work when you are the decider because you know that you can like go back on the decision. Does it ever help to introduce somebody else? Because I am either like that person that is like, let me decide for you. And then how do you feel now that I decided that?
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: or I will solicit somebody to do it for me and be like, okay, you just decide, you make the decision. And then if they choose the one in my like, my heart sinks a little bit, even though if it's like something so minuscule, like what flavor ice cream am I getting? That's my indication. ⁓ I wanted the other thing. But do you find that when someone else is making the decision for you, it allows you to like, because it feels more final.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I do defer to other people a lot, like, especially in like making decisions. I'll like present both both sides and how I'm feeling about each side and like what my reservations are. And then I'm like, well, what do you think? And I while I do do that, I also I'm like trying not to do that, because that's also not helping. Right. Like that's not helping the underlying fact of like, need to be able to do this myself. ⁓ So yeah, I mean, it definitely does help because then it's like, it just feels like it's not on me. And I think that like, kind of comes to our next point that we want to hit of like, what is this underlying? Like feeling or like, what is it that's like making us so indecisive? Is it the fear of making the wrong decision? Is it not having trust in ourselves? Or what is it, you know?
Karli Visconto: Yeah, I think kind of bringing it back to how we started for me, I do think it is anxiety and the desire to feel in control. But I also think it stems personally from me having been an athlete before and me always wanting to make decisions that make me feel like on my best game or at my best self. And so a lot of times when I am
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Karli Visconto: overthinking or having a tough time making a decision, it has to do with like my well-being or like how I'll feel in the future, whether it's like when I'm gonna eat or if I'm not gonna sleep as much because I choose to do one thing over the other. Like that's, think like the root and I think it all stems from anxiety and control, but I'm curious if that's the same for you.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Yeah, that's so funny because honestly, I think a lot of the situations that I overthink or that I like ruminate on like if I made the right decision or what I should do. I think it all does usually go back to trying to look out for my future self. And it's like such a weird thing. But I think I'm a little bit too conscious. And it sounds like you're the same exact way. Like I'm a little bit too conscious of like
Karli Visconto: Yes.
Jessica DeRose: the consequences or how I'm going to feel the next day because I or I'm too conscious. So then that causes me to be in this spiral of like considering my future self over my current self. And it's like, it's not always like a good thing. So my example that of like that happened recently, it was last Sunday. So yesterday,
Karli Visconto: I know exactly what you mean.
Jessica DeRose: was Sunday the day before or the Sunday before that I went to the Phillies game as well and it was like a one o'clock game. And so we were like getting out of the parking lot at just say like 430 and we have this restaurant that we love to go to in University City which is like super close kind of on the way home. And so we were hungry and we were like should we go to Han Dynasty. And it was like yeah like do you want to go because I had work the next day. And so he was like OK you have until. like 452 on this clock to decide it was like 450 and I was like okay well like partially saying this out loud but partially in my head I was like okay well like we have to eat like we're hungry and we're sitting in this parking lot in traffic trying to get out then we have an hour ride home so it's probably gonna be like realistically two hours and 15 minutes until we eat and then I'm gonna be like hangry I'm really hungry at that point But then if we go to Han Dynasty, then we're gonna be there for a little bit and then we still have to drive home and then we might get home later and then I have to shower still and I have to work tomorrow. ⁓ and then I didn't even pack my lunch yet, so I have to do that. And just the run around of, and I just cannot decide which one is more, has more pros instead of cons. And I was like, okay, well what do you think? And he was like,
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Jessica DeRose: I want to keep the fun going so we're going to go to haunt. And I was like, okay. And I was fine with that. But like, I was just trying to consider my future self so badly and there's been a couple times where like, that the same thing will happen. Like I'm doing something on a work night and I will just like literally say to myself like, no, I'm going to do this thing because I want to spend time with ex person or my family or whatever it is over being tired for work tomorrow. Like it's like, I can do it. Like I'm going to be tired when I get up and then. I'm gonna roll through the day just like I always do. ⁓ So, yeah, I feel like a lot of my indecisiveness, doesn't come from, like, it comes from anxiety for the future, truthfully.
Karli Visconto: I like that, I already knew we were very similar, but like hearing that internal dialogue, I almost knew what you were gonna say next. Because I know like your schedule and like the things that you might need to do before bed and like I am the same exact way of like over engineering everything and like weighing the pros and cons. And that's honestly how I make 99 % of the decisions in my life. It's like fully playing out each option and then choosing.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Karli Visconto: But doing that for everything on the table all day, every day is exhausting. I've gotten efficient at it and I feel like I can like do, do, do, do, do, do, but like everything's always like computing in my brain to lead me to the decision that's better for my future self, like you said. And it's anxiety in the future. It's anxiety of being hungry in the future or anxiety of being tired in the future or like ill prepared. Like I always want to be prepared.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. It's exhausting. Mm-hmm. Tired. Mm-hmm.
Karli Visconto: or on time or like, and so I honestly think it also stems from a little bit of like perfectionism or the tendency to like be an overachiever. I think it goes hand in hand that if you are a little bit of like a control freak or a little bit anxious by nature, you're also a little bit of a perfectionist and a high achiever. And so you're an over thinker as well. It's like a holy trinity.
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like you're overthinking? Like I kind of just explained how I feel like it's in more of a specific context. Do you feel like you're overthinking and like over analytical mind kind of translates into other areas of your life or is it kind of just like on that end? Like does it flow into work or like what you're gonna wear or whatever it is?
Karli Visconto: I think. So actually what I wear is not something that I overthink, that is like the one thing, but I was just about to say, I think a lot of my overthinking also stems from the perceptions of others. So just a silly example this morning that I clocked and was like, what the heck? I drove my dad's car to Pilates, because mine's all loaded up with the Westchester stuff. It looks like a fucking clown car right now. And I'm like, I'm not lugging that to Pilates. I got out and it took me a second to remember that I had my dad's car. So there was like two to three seconds where I was like standing in the parking lot being like, wait, where's my car? Like looking confused and kind of looking like an idiot. And then I was like, ⁓ I drove my dad's car today. And the fact that I said that out loud, like, ⁓ I drove my dad's car as if I was telling somebody else, indicated to me that I was saying that out loud to justify my current behavior to an external person looking in on the situation. Not to myself, because I wouldn't have been like, ⁓ my dad's car. would have been like, ⁓ I have dad's car. You know what I mean? I said it as if I was saying it to somebody else to justify what I was doing. And that was kind of like an aha moment of I was more concerned about, in a micro second did this all happen, but I was more concerned about the onlooker than myself. And so I think that absolutely does show up.
Jessica DeRose: ⁓ interesting. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: in instances when I'm overthinking a presentation at work. I'm overthinking it because I am so nervous about how I'm going to be perceived from my clients when I'm presenting. Same thing with like only human engagements. When I used to be really nervous when we stepped on stage, like I would overthink that and play it out in my head before we ever got to that moment because I was so scared of like the judgment and perception. So I think that's also like an undertone throughout.
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that's definitely like a very common emotion. And I think probably a lot of other people's that may not identify with like the anxiety about it. The anxiety portion of it, I think a lot of people would relate to that side of it is kind of like overthinking maybe in a setting where it's like after the fact, like maybe you just looked around in the parking lot and then had to put like your panic button on. And then you're driving home and you're like, ⁓ my God, did like all of my friends to see that, like that kind of overthinking post like action. And even though you kind of described like pre action, but also like, I think there's a lot of room for overthinking.
Karli Visconto: Yeah. Do you also feel like you worry about the perception of others? Is that how overthinking shows up for you? Or is it mainly like the anxiety and control and like your schedule and like considering your future self?
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, I think it's mostly in that setting. Because even when I said that I'm an over thinker to you, you were like, really? I'm indecisive to you. Really? I feel like you're very decisive. Because I think there are things that are, when they're very black and white, I'm able to decide which one I like better or I want to go with, whether it's a song or a post or whatever it is. I'm pretty good at like, calling on that intuition, but it's when there's things involved that are like emotion-based or like feeling, you know? Like even when you invited me to breakfast, like I was like, should I go? Like I knew that I like didn't really want to go in my current state, but I was like, should I go? Because like I really, you know, haven't seen her and I want to have girl time and I need to get away and like, and it's just, yeah.
Karli Visconto: which it's. You know what this reminds me of? You know when they say stressing about eating the food is more harmful for your body than just eating the food, right? So if you're sitting there and we'll just keep rolling with the donuts from last week, there's a donut sitting in front of you and you're like, I really want it, but that's so bad for me and it so much sugar and so much fat and it's gonna spike my blood sugar, Versus if you're like, hmm, I want that, you eat it and you move on with your day. They always say like,
Jessica DeRose: and eating the food. Mmm.
Karli Visconto: the toll on your nervous system from getting yourself all worked up about the donut is worse than just having the freaking donut itself. It makes me see a parallel with this in terms of us always wanting to do something that will leave us better off in our future state. But in our current state, we're stressing ourselves the hell out because we are projecting and we're going over and over and over the details and weighing the pros and cons.
Jessica DeRose: Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: And it's making our nervous system be in overdrive all the time. Constant stimulation, constant inability to turn the brain off. And it's just making me realize that in itself is more damaging than getting thrown off of our routine now and again.
Jessica DeRose: ⁓ my god. Overdrive. Yeah, yeah, no, I definitely can see that. And it's just so much mental energy that it takes up to be it to go back and forth and back and forth and be like, I don't know. And and then make the decision and be like, is this the right decision? Am I going to regret this decision? I as I'm talking, I'm like, think I actually this like all of my anxiety is around work and having to wake up the next day or like being like, ⁓ like I have to work two in a row because that will. impact my decision. Like if I'm only working one and then I have another day off, I'm like, okay, I can stay out later and do things like I have more tolerance because I'm like, I just have to do one day, I can do anything for one day. So yeah, when I get a fully remote job, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be like out on the town all the time. I'm gonna be making all the decisions.
Karli Visconto: I also think you're gonna be making decisions for yourself and other people. You're gonna be like, random person on the street, this is what you're doing today. I think your situation with work is a little bit unique though, because you're a pediatric ER nurse. So like you are literally saving lives. Like your job is not for the faint of heart and it is like a very serious. So do you think that plays a role? Like if you were signing on for...
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am a decision maker now. Mm-hmm.
Karli Visconto: a silly consulting job. Like people are always like, I don't have a real job. I work in corporate America. The people that have the real jobs are the ones on like the front lines, like dealing with people and again, saving lives. So do you think that plays into it because you take your job so seriously? Okay. At least she's honest.
Jessica DeRose: I really, that was beautiful, but now I don't. I think it's just the fact that I have to wake up at 4.50 and I want to, what did I say? I like hate myself when I wake up. I mean, even if I have a full 10 hours of sleep, I'm still gonna feel tired because it's just so early, but like I just like hate myself when my alarm goes off and I have to get out of bed to have like a 16 hour day. Like I'm just like.
Karli Visconto: Yeah.
Jessica DeRose: That's like so anxiety inducing for me.
Karli Visconto: And especially if you're like, I shot myself in the foot because I could have been well rested. I could have made like the adult decision to like go to bed at a decent time so that when my alarm goes off. Yeah, I think that also stems from like your deep desire to just feel good, right? And like feel in control. ⁓ Speaking of at work though, do you ever battle with indecisiveness in the workplace? Like you have to make split second decisions at times, I'm sure. Like, do you ever feel yourself questioning?
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: the right thing to do.
Jessica DeRose: No, I don't.
Karli Visconto: Do you think it's because there's more of a right thing to do and there's less room for weighing options? It's like, ⁓ this is the right protocol.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, I mean, I think when I think about having to make decisions, I think about kind of. triaging what is most important for me to do first. And I think that's just in my work. I think that's just a muscle that I've ⁓ worked so much that I inherently kind of just know like I need to do this first. need this can wait. ⁓ Or if I have competing priorities, then I know that I can delegate one of them or so I think it's I've gotten to a point where maybe in the beginning just because I didn't have enough experience I would maybe think a little bit harder about like what to do first, but I think I've just like, practiced and like use that muscle so much that I like pretty much know. Like, I don't really there's not like a lot of ruminating or like decisions to be made. It's kind of just like, it is what it is. And you have to make decisions quickly. So you just get used to that like decisiveness.
Karli Visconto: Yeah. Yeah, well what I'm hearing from you is it's a muscle that you've built and so you've practiced being decisive but you also really sound like you have assurance and confidence in yourself to operate in, you know, a moment's notice and make the right decision and I think that can be applied across the board because I think sometimes when we are overthinking something or over analyzing a situation and kind of feeling like analysis paralysis and you're like I cannot make a decision it's because We don't have the confidence in ourselves and we second guess ourselves in terms of the decision that we make, is it the right one? And I think that inability to like just be confident in the one that you do choose and just move on with your day, like I think that's a really huge hindering factor.
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I that's very true. think in like we're talking about overthinking and like as it relates to being indecisive and making decisions, like I think that's it is a really big stem from being confident and kind of like we're describing. You can be confident in some areas of your life and not be confident in others and it causes you to overthink in those areas instead of like other areas. Like just like if you decide, well, that's kind of a bad example. was gonna say like decide what. color to paint your room. You know that you don't want it to be blue. If somebody gave you the option between blue and gray, you would choose gray because you know you like gray more. But it's just because you're confident that that is your liking. I don't know.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, isn't it funny though, as I'm hearing you talk, I'm reflecting on if I'm a good decision maker for other people. And the answer is yes. Like I am the most decisive person, if anybody ever asks me an opinion, so rarely will I say, I don't know, or like it doesn't matter. Like I am a decisive person when it's at the disposal of somebody else, like yeah. But for me, I'm like, I actually.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. it comes to other people. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: I'm calling on other people and that's something I wanted to ask you about because you mentioned with dinner the other night going to Han like and kind of being you have until you know this time to make a decision and I think it's a really interesting thing to explore how our over analytical mind affects others because it absolutely does and I know ways that I've seen it affect my relationships, but I'm curious if you found that it has affected yours with an or just family and friends in general.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I feel like we'd have to ask him this question because he I feel like is kind of the one that was like You are really bad at making decisions. Like you can't just figure it out. Was like, ⁓ yeah, actually, you're right. I like he's my like light bulb. He's like mmm like I'd ever tell you the story about like I was having like Palpitate like heart palpitations and like my heart was racing all the time and I like went to the cardiologist and he's like, okay, so everything looks good like and you're drinking a ton of water, like you're not dehydrated. He's like, do you have anxiety? And I was like, no. And I went, I was like, we can check that one off. And I go home and tell Aunt that. And I was like, yeah, he kind of like doesn't know like what's going on. like, you know, and he asked me if I have anxiety and I was like, no. And he's like, what? You told him you don't? I was like, do I? And he's like, he literally goes, he's like, ⁓
Karli Visconto: Are you sure? He's like, babe, I've known this about you since you were 11.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, I sit with you when you're in the car and I know that you have anxiety because when he's driving, I'm like, I like consciously try not to do this, but it's so hard. Like I'm just like moving, like I'll readjust my seatbelt or like I'll turn the volume up or like turn the heat warmer on or and then touch my phone. And then I'll be like, like I'm always like doing something. But that's like so it's so weird. I don't know if it's just the car because that's just not me. Like I am very like.
Karli Visconto: Wait, that's crazy. Vigiting. You are, you're very calming presence.
Jessica DeRose: calm and zen. I think that's when I realized that my anxiety is, aside from when I'm in the car apparently, is just so internal. Probably 95 % of the people in my life, if you ask them, or that know me, if you ask them to just have anxiety, they would be like, And so that, I think... Well, now we're on an anxiety tangent. I think for a really long time, I looked at anxiety as this external thing that other people can see and you can almost visualize. But my anxiety is just all in here. It doesn't really manifest in a hyperactivity.
Karli Visconto: Yes, which just goes to show anxiety manifests so differently for different people. And it really is a silent battle to a lot because it's not something that's portrayed to the outside world. And even you, you lived with anxiety and you couldn't even really put your finger on it. You didn't even know that was something that you were battling. So not only was it a silent battle, but it was one that you weren't even aware of at the time. So how could you ever intervene?
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. I know it was it was so silent. I didn't even know that it was there. My sister just commented. Um, you have anxiety. I said 95 % of the people in my life would not know that you are in the 5 % unfortunately.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, she's, yeah, sis. You know her better than anybody. ⁓ Do you ever find that your overthinking affects your sleep? Like, will you find yourself waking up in the middle of the night? Because that's one of my biggest symptoms. I will wake up, my brain literally is in beta mode when I'm sleeping, and I will have like these come to Jesus moments when I'm like turning over in my slumber at 3 a.m. And there's times where I'll have to pull out my phone and make a to-do list. It doesn't stop. My brain never shuts off. Do you find that that's something that you battle with or you're able to turn it off at the end of the night?
Jessica DeRose: As per usual, I think it's a complicated answer because I do remember times where, like I'm just thinking about when I was living at my old house, like there were times when I was doing that all the time. And that's like a lot of the time that my heart was racing and I was noticing my heart racing is when I was lying in bed trying to relax. And I don't really know what has changed since then, but like since then, like, my anxiety, my palpitations, like all my physical symptoms, like my overthinking when I'm trying to relax, like those have kind of resolved. I don't really know why, but there was a point where that was happening to me, but now I'm pretty much, unless there's like, just say we had like a really big event like tomorrow, then maybe I would think about it or if there's something I'm excited about, but not really like any bad overthinking, like when I'm trying to relax. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, like not on a day-to-day basis, yeah.
Jessica DeRose: but does that happen to you pretty often?
Karli Visconto: ⁓ Yeah, I would say again, I do think it ebbs and flows like when there's something big coming up and there's like a lot of logistics or details that need to be like worked out and I don't want anything to fall through the cracks like I'm definitely more so on overdrive but I'm also the type of person that because I have so many thoughts crossing my head at every moment of every day like I just need to like brain dump a lot so I find myself able to cope by pulling out my phone and just writing things in a note app or
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: taking out my journal or like schedule and just writing it down. And then once it's out of my brain, I'm like, okay, I can exhale because I think I'm so fearful that I'm gonna forget something and then never think about it ever again. And I don't want to drop the ball.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Same. Yeah, because how many times does that happen? You like remember something and you're like, ⁓ my god, I almost forgot that. And you're like, what if I did forget that, but you didn't, but you're just like, what if I did and then I wouldn't have done this? And then, yeah, no, I totally can see that. And I do like, I definitely do that, but I don't think it's like, because of overthinking, but that's like actually one of my most favorite tools is whenever I'm thinking about something, writing it down.
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jessica DeRose: because then I can, like you said, just get it out of my brain and be like, okay, I don't have to think about this anymore because it is somewhere. And I think that's why journaling is very therapeutic too. And I'm like, you can definitely speak to this because I don't really journal, but it just feels like you're getting these things out and then they can just be there and they don't have to be up here.
Karli Visconto: Yes, yes. I'm curious, something that I've kind of realized as I was writing out these notes and like reflecting on how my overthinking could potentially come off to other people or how it feels to me even sometimes. I feel like it's very self-indulgent to be living in your head all the time. And it kind of manifests as like being very self-absorbed in my opinion because Even when I lean on my friends or like my mom to like help make decisions, it's extremely draining for them to always be weighing out options. And I know that I do that because I like soliciting other people's input and getting different perspectives because I want to make sure that there's not something I'm missing, whether it's, you know, how I should proceed forward or maybe how my actions would like affect somebody else. I want to always make sure I have like all pieces of information.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah.
Karli Visconto: to make an informed decision. And that requires me like tapping other people in and phoning a friend very often, whether it's a small decision or a large one. But then I think about like, how tiring that would be for them to have to go through that exercise of weighing options and giving me their opinion. And again, it seems to me like it's it's selfish, because it's like asking a lot of the other people in your life. And of course, they want to support you, but there's also a fine line, you know?
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think there's definitely a line. Like, I mean, if it's like what cereal to eat for breakfast, I think that can get really exhausting, but I think it's really normal. And like, that's why we have friendships and relationships to be able to tap into those people because they know you really well, number one, and they're an outsider. Like you said, there's so much power in perspective. And so what might seem like a really hard decision for you actually seems really easy from the outside because they're looking at it so objectively.
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. That's true. That's very true.
Jessica DeRose: You know, so I think like, like you said, there's a really healthy line and boundaries, but I think, you know, like what are friends and family for if they're not there for that kind of support and like perspective, you know, it just like not abusing that power or like crossing that line. I think it's tricky.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, that's a good point. ⁓ Yeah. And I guess like along the lines of it feeling like self-indulgent or being like self-absorbed, I used the example of external and that is a great like rebuttal. Like, well, they actually would probably want to show up for you, especially if it's an important decision or like something that you want to work through. Like they'd be more than happy to be that person. But then I think on the other end, with it being like an internal battle, it's like how much mental energy do I spend projecting like my schedule in the future or thinking about future me and how I'm going to feel like Can I free up some of that brain capacity to think about others, help others, pray to God, pray for other people? You know what I mean? How much mental energy I tie up thinking about myself because of my anxiety, you could do so much more good with that.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Mm-hmm yourself. Yeah Oh my God, I love that. It's really true. And it doesn't even have to be like, just taking the selflessness part out of it. You can just, if you wanted to stay selfish, you could take that energy and put it into more productive things. Like, because it's just straight up not productive. Like, even just taking it a step down, like starting with like actually using it towards things that are productive, you know?
Karli Visconto: Right? Hmm? Yeah, which I think is kind of at the point that we're both at where we're like, we're aware, but like, how do we actually take this to the next step and like, try to incorporate some tangible, you know, action items of like, well, how can we maybe change this because like, it's not really being super serving right now in the moment. So I guess if anybody's listening and like empathizing with us, like, is there anything in your mind at this point of like anything that you feel like
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: you can do better or what can we do to just trust ourselves a little bit more in decision making and eliminate that over-engineering of thought.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, well that'll be open-ended. We'll wait for those answers because I clearly don't have them at this point. But it's going to be.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, I know. I feel like tuning into the gut and less the head. Like I feel like your body sometimes knows even like in a little, even in a little decisions, like going with the feeling and like taking your mind out of the equation and just like making a quick decision and not being fearful that it's the wrong one. Like forget the, forget that fear.
Jessica DeRose: the guy. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think you're on like a gut feeling kick right now. You're putting your mind to the wayside, but I think there's a good balance.
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. Shots fired.
Jessica DeRose: You're leaning into the gut right now.
Karli Visconto: And you know what? Yes, I am.
Jessica DeRose: No, think there's a really, there is a really good balance because it's like, maybe you do want to go out and party until one in the morning, but you have work tomorrow. Like that's like a, you know what I mean? I don't know. That's like a very easy example, but I do think like we, would be a lot better served if we just listened to our intuition, which is like, I feel like our gut feeling and just went with it. And you know what I feel like?
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jessica DeRose: It's also, if you feel like you're using one over the other, then try to use the other one and see how that feels, because it might feel better. You know what I mean? I don't know.
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Actually, one piece of advice, I'm thinking as I'm hearing you talk, what has actually helped me is always, okay, when you are like brought a choice, one inherently makes you feel more expansive. One inherently makes you feel more constrained or constricted. And like tuning into like, if I make this decision,
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm.
Karli Visconto: It's something that you can actually feel instantaneously. It's not like a timely or like a lengthy exercise to like go through that, but it is like a feeling that you get if like this decision makes me feel bigger or smaller. And like it could be the stupidest thing. can be like applied to ice cream flavors. It can, but like I feel like you said, like you're shaking your head. Like I don't think so.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Well, I'm just like, okay, that's like, that would contribute to my indecisiveness, I think, like, because I'm like, okay, for the Han dynasty example, which one makes me feel expanded? Like, I don't know. It's like dinner. I'm like, I'm not saying it's not a good exercise. I'm just like, I feel like that adding that piece to it for me, then I have to decide which one it is.
Karli Visconto: Really? Okay. Yeah. It's just like one other thing in the mix. Mm-hmm. Okay, yeah.
Jessica DeRose: And then I'm like, does it make me feel like, know what I mean? I don't know. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but like, yeah.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, I found that that tool works for me, but I maybe it's not for everybody. Well, we clearly don't have the answers. So hopefully nobody came here for any sort of takeaways because this was just a swirl.
Jessica DeRose: Karlie's like, well, I tried. Well, okay, Rachel had a good, she has a good ending for us. It says, be okay with the result either way and be satisfied with simply making a decision in the first place and know it'll be okay no matter what. This is true, it's not life or death. Getting Han Dynasty, it's not life or death. It's actually life. I know, and I don't take my own advice.
Karli Visconto: ⁓ I love that. Everything is life or death. It's not that serious. You say that a lot actually. Well, it starts today.
Jessica DeRose: All right, I'm deciding that you're going first with your only human moment because there we're on a cliffhanger here I looked at our document because we do like a little rough outline just to help us so that we don't swirl in thought So we put our only human moment on there. So because I Will be both have a really hard time coming up with our only human moment, even though we have a million a day
Karli Visconto: What is? Okay, I was just gonna say. Yeah. We still do.
Jessica DeRose: So I go on to put in my only human moment and I see that Carly says pants slash sidewalk and that's it. But it's probably because last week I gave you shit for putting a whole paragraph. I was like, you didn't have to go into all that detail. So then she left me with a little bit and so we are just eager to hear what this story is.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, I said fine, I'll breadcrumb instead. So I feel like a lot of my only human moments up to this point have been like, ⁓ I felt guilty doing this or I was sad or anxious. No, this is just purely an embarrassing ass story. So Saturday morning was the Pilates event with Flawless Fitness. And I just take a very quick.
Jessica DeRose: You
Karli Visconto: walk before I have to leave the house. At like 10 to 15 minutes, it was beautiful outside. And I was like, I just want to get like a little bit of movement in and just feel the sun on my face. So I'm basically in my pajamas, I'm wearing like these, like very comfy, stretchy, wide leg sweatpants. And I'm walking around the block and I'm like multitasking. At one point, I'm like looking in my phone, my pant leg because they're so wide and they're long. must have gotten stuck on the sidewalk. Like there was like a divot in the sidewalk or like a little like lip, it got stuck on it. And I keep walking because I don't realize it. This sidewalk holds on to my sweatpants. Not only do my sweatpants rip, they get yanked down. My whole ass is out in the street. My pants, I get pantsed by the sidewalk. And...
Jessica DeRose: ⁓ my God.
Karli Visconto: I am stuck on this sidewalk. My pants are literally down to my knee. I turn around, there is this sweet man with his baby outside and he's like, hey, how's it going? And I was like, did you just see that? I'm like, I am so sorry. Look the other way, please. I literally like take my pants off the sidewalk, pull up my pants and keep moving. And you know what? I have the culprit right here to show.
Jessica DeRose: No. Not good. Don't ask me that. ⁓ my God.
Karli Visconto: This is my pants that have a hole in it. And you can see how stretchy they are, like this stretchy material. So yeah, I mooned the whole block and it wasn't even 8 AM yet. So that's great.
Jessica DeRose: my god. I don't think I would have shown my face for the rest of the day. and you just know somebody's ring camera caught that. If you live on Carly's box, please, we need this video. Oh my God. That's so bad.
Karli Visconto: Gosh, yeah, I've worked so hard all my life to never have nobody ever has footage of me like that No, I've boy. I'm a good girl, but damn Saturday morning when you go home to walk Yeah, it'll get you. So yeah, I'm only human
Jessica DeRose: ⁓ my god. So what's your takeaway? Are you never wearing long stretchy pants again or are you not gonna try to like look in your phone again? Like what was the lesson? No.
Karli Visconto: I wish I could say one of the two, but I think it was just a really unfortunate occurrence, wrong place, wrong time. That was a freak event. And I love wide leg, stretchy sweatpants. That's a trademark of mine. And I also love to multitask while I'm on a walk. There's probably gonna be texts being rattled off and emails being answered, just at all hours of the day, actually. So yeah, no takeaways, just embarrassment.
Jessica DeRose: ⁓ yeah, there is. my God, I'm so sorry for you. That is so bad.
Karli Visconto: It's okay, we persist. What's your only human moment?
Jessica DeRose: I should have went first, honestly. Mine's not that crazy, but I also came with a very stupid, tangible one. It wasn't an emotion. I don't know if it was, because when I saw yours, it kind of sparked mine, because mine also had to do with concrete, but it was that. I was just being, I had my water bottle. Okay, so I just ran. and I was sitting in the sun at the park and I had my water bottle and I took my like air pod maxes off, right? These things are like $500 plus. I put them on my water bottle, like as if the water bottle was my head because I didn't want to put them on the ground because it was concrete. And I was like filming a TikTok and I don't know what, I think I went to move my water bottle out of the way because I was using it as like a stand or like move it back. and they just like popped off and I scratched the shit out of them. Like, it's like, here I'll show you. Like the place where like it's nice. Like I'm like this is why I can't have nice things. It actually doesn't look that bad, but like this. Yeah, you can't even see.
Karli Visconto: So they fell onto the concrete and got scratched. Almost like, that's unfortunate though, because those are really nice. Yeah, it's like sleek.
Jessica DeRose: But like this like nice like part of it got scratched. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: And it sucks because you can't even, I can see it though a little bit. I wouldn't have like noticed it if you were just walking by, but that sucks because like it's gonna bother you more than it bothers anyone else. Like you're gonna be staring at it.
Jessica DeRose: It's not even that bad, but. ⁓ my god, it's gonna bother me, because I just like, don't wanna have nice things that aren't nice. Like, what the heck's the point? You know? But, ⁓ my god, no.
Karli Visconto: Yeah, and you can't do anything about scratches. It's like when you get a new like Stanley or a Walla and you drop it and it's like, I mean, like, and now I just have to throw it out. Now you're dead to me.
Jessica DeRose: Mm-hmm, there's like a dent and now it's yeah like Yeah, just like not nice anymore just defeats the whole purpose so That was sad. I was so you know like when you do something stupid, and you're just like So pissed at yourself because it was just that split second, and it was like You're just like can I just redo that like because it just happened so fast Yeah
Karli Visconto: Yeah. Yeah, and you're like, I knew better. Well, it's okay. You're only human. Alright. We do!
Jessica DeRose: Well, we have an exciting rest of our day. We are going to Westchester later and we're going to do something different. It's like a Pilates, but it's ⁓ like, what would you call
Karli Visconto: Mm-hmm. So it's really showcasing, like in our previous live podcast ⁓ events, we talk about like the college experience, but this one is catered to female college athletes. And Jess is gonna be stepping into the interview role and I'm gonna be stepping into the hot seat. And it's gonna be all about like the female college athlete experience. And we're gonna be talking about things like performance anxiety and healthy hormones, realistic habits for college students. ⁓ recovery body image like so much and it's really just gonna be like all of my ⁓ Experience and it's all just gonna be like anecdotal evidence from me So it'll be like a little bit of like storytelling instead of coming at it from like a clinical like professional mindset Which I think will have the ability to like emotionally resonate more with the college students and then yeah We're gonna also kick things off with a little like Matt Pilates flow. So I'm excited Yeah, we have so many goodies for this
Jessica DeRose: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. be fine Really? Like I have no idea what we have. Yeah.
Karli Visconto: Like we have so much PR, yeah. We have a little bit of everything. I actually have to go put that together before. ⁓ But yeah, very, very excited. That's at 7 p.m. tonight, so we have a long day ahead.
Jessica DeRose: Yeah, we do. All right, well, thanks everybody for tuning in. We will see you next time. Bye.
Karli Visconto: Bye!
