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Welcome to the On Record Podcast.
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This is a podcast where we talk with professionals and subject matter experts from diverse markets that are using video and audio and technology in innovative ways to support their organization's objectives.
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My name is Mike Anslone and my co-host is Carmen Hawke.
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And our guest today is Karen McDonough.
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Karen is the clinical director for the Speech, Language, and Hearing Clinic at Northeastern University.
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Welcome, Karen.
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Thanks for having me.
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So before we hop in, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your professional journey and how you got to Northeastern University?
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Sure.
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I've been a speech language pathologist or SLP for over 30 years.
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I've worked with adults and children of all ages in acute care, inpatient and outpatient rehab, schools, private practice, everywhere.
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And one of my favorite parts of those jobs was always supervising students, clinical fellows, mentoring new staff.
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So when a position opened at Northeastern in 2019 for a clinical supervisor in their SLP grad program, I jumped at the chance to take that position.
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I was a clinical supervisor in the on-campus clinic, the Speech Language and Hearing Center, for a few years and also worked as an off-site clinical coordinator, which connected students with their off-site supervisors.
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And then when the position of SLP clinic director opened, I took on that role.
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And so I'm now the SLP clinic director and an assistant clinical professor.
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And that's where I am today.
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Sounds like you have a supervisor role.
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That's your personal mission of mentorship.
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How does that tie into your organization's mission and what they focus on as the core objectives and outcomes?
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Well, the mission at the Bouvet College of Health Sciences, where we are at Northeastern, it's basically advance academic excellence to promote healthcare to everyone across the lifespan.
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So, yes, mentoring is so important to me and a huge part of that.
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And I know you're going to ask about video technology and where that might fit into that too.
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And um, that plays a huge role in what we do with our teaching and mentoring.
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So, along those lines, Karen, I know that you you won the Supervisor Excellent Award a couple of years in a row, which speaks to how you develop clinicians.
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So, talking about video, can you walk us through how you use video review and feedback feedback loops to coach your students and their clinical placements?
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And what does that process really look like?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So we have really two things.
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We have video in the classroom, and then we have video in the clinic.
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So before any of our students can ever work with the clients, they're they're supposed to have 25 guided observation hours.
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And so, in order to do that, a lot of times they can't get in live to observe sessions and things like that.
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So in the classroom, I can share videos of sessions that we've conducted, both diagnostic and therapeutic.
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I share those with the students, and then we have discussions about them and thinking about what went well and why and what might you do differently as a clinician.
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So we definitely use technology in the classroom.
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But then also in our clinic, we have seven treatment rooms.
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And so each treatment room has a camera set up, and we record every single one of our sessions, diagnostic and therapy.
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And I can be watching live.
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Uh, families can watch live from a room where we have a few of the laptops set up.
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I can watch from home if I needed to check in on somebody.
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But basically, we're watching, taking notes, able to provide student feedback.
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And we record all those sessions too, so that we can review later, and so that the students can review later.
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Our students have to take data as they're working with clients, and that's a real challenge when you're a brand new clinician.
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It's a challenge for anyone, but it's a challenge for brand new clinicians.
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So to be able to play back that video and to then watch how they worked with the client, how the client responded, then they're able to take that and say, okay, what did I do well?
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What do I want to do again next time?
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What kind of data did I maybe miss while I thought I was collecting everything that I was collecting?
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And then what can I do for the next session?
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In those sessions, do you use video as a summative tool or more of a formative tool or maybe a combination of both?
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I'd say, well, probably a combination, but I, you know, the the thing is we use those videos to then teach in the classroom.
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So we're using those to say, and we we try not to use them when we have students still there.
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So I would never take a video of a current student and play it for a classroom of their peers, but we take ones that are maybe a couple of years older and use those in the classroom.
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But also we use those to sit and work with students and talk about, you know, what might help them grow as clinicians themselves.
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And also looking at what the client's doing and what their reactions were and how they can then figure out what they should do for their next sessions.
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I see.
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Can I circle back to a question I have about observation and how when you have family members engaging in observation?
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And Mike, he and I were chatting about this prior to our podcast today.
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How are you supporting family members being able to look into the sessions from a remote location?
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So all of our, well, the majority of our sessions are in person.
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Some of them are telepractice via Zoom.
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So if it's a child, for instance, over Zoom, the family member has to be there.
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A parent or guardian has to be there.
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They have to be present.
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And then most of our sessions are in person, in which the parent or guardian is in person or a family member if they're an adult.
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Someone is usually with them.
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And that person can then watch through the mirror.
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They can do that.
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Or they can sit in our observation room and watch from this the laptops.
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And so I can sit with them and talk about as a clinical supervisor.
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I could sit with them and say, notice what they're doing here.
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This is something you might want to try at home.
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Family members can chime in and say, you know, they've never done this before.
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How do I get them to do this?
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Or she's asking him this, but he thinks she means that.
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Can we go into the room and change things?
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So it really gives us so much opportunity for the families to be involved, not only with the live sessions, if we have to go in and work with them, work with the client.
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If the client, if the child's crying and needs his mom, we can see that and go right in.
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But also for home, what are some of the things that are working well?
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And we can then say this is something you might want to implement at home to encourage them to continue this growth.
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Do you find there's a big difference working with adults and then working with smaller children from an observational perspective?
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Not necessarily from an observational perspective.
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There's always a difference in that you're probably doing more family teaching if it's a child.
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So I might be spending a little more time with the parents during that session, or the parent might be in with them during that session.
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And for many of our adult clients, they are more independent.
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So you don't have to do that.
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And somebody watching might be a family member who's watching but doesn't necessarily need the guidance that you would for a parent or guardian of a small child.
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Digging into Mike's question a little deeper, when we have a child perhaps in a therapy space, do they bounce around a little bit more?
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Is it more of a target moving object kind of uh identify where that individual is going to be and have crystal clear audio to hear them and see their minimal actions or small gestures that tell a story?
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100%.
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I am so grateful for cameras that move.
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There we do have some dead spots.
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You know, there are some spots that child will find that the camera just can't find them, but for the most part, we're able to track them.
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So very often, if like let's say a supervisor is in with the client and the graduate student and the family member and they're all in the therapy room, they might ask me to man the camera so that I'm following the child around.
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So we always want that ability to be able to track them.
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So yes, they do move around, and I'm very grateful for those cameras.
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The microphones are tougher because they hang from the ceiling.
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And so there are some clients who are just incredibly quiet, and that makes a huge difference.
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It's very hard.
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You'll see me sometimes leaning in a lot to just hear exactly what they're saying when I'm supervising because I can't, the mic might not be catching everything that they're saying.
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So that that can be a little bit of a challenge, but for the most part, we just turn our laptops off as high as we can or as low as need be if they're very loud and rowdy.
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But for the most part, yes, they move around and we're able to track them.
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Now I just wanted to ask because it sounds like you're using some of perhaps the features of your video recording solution in the software.
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How important is ease of use in becoming a tool that you're using, whether you have forced to use it or if it's enjoyable to use?
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How important is that in your evaluation?
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It's so important because there's so many things we might miss if we don't have that camera on the trying or the graduate student.
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There are things that we really need to make sure we're capturing, to make sure we're collecting the accurate data, especially for students.
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If they're assessing a child and they need to see some of their, you know, their movements, what are they pointing to in the pictures, things like that.
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If we can't capture that, we might miss that if the student wasn't able to get that data in real time.
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I'm kind of curious, Karen, you as you're referring to your clients and patients, this is this is a service that you're providing the local community.
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How how do you work with the community in terms of you know uh bringing in clients and and and and who do you work with when you when you bring them in?
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So it is a speech language and hearing center.
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So we have audiologists on staff who see many of the clients throughout our community.
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We have veterans coming in, we have just various people throughout the community that come in to have their hearing assessed and get hearing aids.
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Our graduate students are typically not involved in that aspect.
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They are involved in the speech and language side of things.
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So that's where I come into play.
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And it's a lot of word of mouth.
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Many people know that we exist.
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We have an on-campus clinic.
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The rates are very low because it is student clinicians who are all seen by licensed, overseen by licensed supervisors.
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But we also reach out to the community in schools.
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They spread the word.
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We have a summer literacy program, and oftentimes the people that come to that tell other people about that in their school systems, and then they want to come for articulation or language therapy.
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So really it's it's a combination, I'd say, of word in word of mouth in the community and also us reaching out to school systems and nearby hospitals and other facilities.
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You know, one of the questions a lot of our potential clients that we work with ask quite often in a similar type of environment is surrounding patient consent to be recorded and things of that sort.
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How do you go about and what guidance could you provide our listeners in terms of that process?
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Yeah, well, we have to have written consent.
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Verbal is definitely not enough.
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We have to have written consent.
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So we have consent forms for all of our clients.
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And sometimes, if they, you know, decide, nope, I don't want to be recorded.
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We do try to explain that this is educational and this is really benefits our students, and it is for their learning.
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It is not that we are, you know, publicizing any of these sessions or anything like that.
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It is really for student learning.
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So almost all usually they they sign the consents and we're fine.
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Some will sign consents that you can use these for other purposes, and some will say it's only for the educational purposes.
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And then some will absolutely refuse and say, I do not want to be recorded at all.
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And we just honor that.
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We don't record those sessions.
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And in those situations, do you do you have a special therapy room or you just kind of turn the cameras off?
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Cameras off.
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We still have to be able to view them so we just don't record them.
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Gotcha.
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Okay.
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Well, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
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Also, one of the things that I'm hearing more often with our other speech and language clients is they're starting to do a lot of interprofessional work with, let's say, nursing simulation.
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Is that something that your program is getting involved with?
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Huge with that.
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Yes.
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Absolutely.
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I just did one with our SLP students along with pharmacy, where we gave them a case of a client that had um MS and how would they work together?
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How would they work individually?
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And then we actually had an in-person debrief so that they could all meet each other and have discussions, and that was fabulous.
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We have one with the uh physical therapy students that we do in our SIM lab at Northeastern.
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We'll be doing that in a few weeks, where they go in and they work with a a client, a client, a patient who's uh, you know, an actor who comes in and they have aphasia or some other issues going on, and the PT and the SLP students will go in and do an assessment on them.
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So, yes, we we have lots in the works with this.
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Let's see, I'm kind of curious, what does the like the career path look like for a speech and language student?
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So there's so many places you can work, so much you can do.
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And it's one of the things I always love to tell students is you don't have to know exactly what you want to do under the umbrella of speech language pathology.
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You know, you can work in early intervention going into people's homes.
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Uh, you can run a private practice or work for a private practice, you can do home care, you can work in an acute care hospital, you can work in inpatient or outpatient rehab, you can do research in a university, you can work in the public schools or collaboratives.
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So there are so many different ways you can go under the umbrella of still being an SLP.
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Can I ask, how are you how are you attracting students?
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Obviously, name recognition is huge, but uh for this specific program, I feel like there's a a new layer of media happening with like TikTok videos and speech language pathologists offering content there and just driving interest in this discipline.
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Where do you see this being like a very strong career path to the future?
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Tell us more about that.
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Honestly, I you know, I don't think we've had to do a lot to attract students to it.
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We get so hundreds of applications every year.
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Hundreds.
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So it is definitely a growing field.
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It's certainly far more applications than when I was, you know, going to school.
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So I don't think it's something that we've had to actively publicize.
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However, you know, we're working at the university, we need to make sure that they understand our program and how our program might be different than another program.
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You know, we are uh in a big city, and you know, there are others that are much more rural and have a smaller amount of students attending.
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We are very fortunate that so many of our alumni work in the area, and that provides us with off-site supervisors for our students, so that there's lots of opportunities for them to go into the hospitals and the schools and various private practices when they have to do their practicums.
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So I think it's more about the program.
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That's what we're promoting more than the actual career path.
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In that evolution, you've seen, as you mentioned, the changes and the growth that's happened in this field since you first started.
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When it comes to technology, would you describe how you've seen that evolve since you first started as well?
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Oh, sure.
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You know, it was technology back then, but we actually recorded our sessions on VCR tapes.
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It was also before HIPAA was a big thing.
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So we brought those VCR tapes home to review, which would never be okay at this point.
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But we did, we had things on VCR.
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You think about classrooms, they wheeled in a TB with a VCR.
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If they showed something in the classroom, you had projectors and slides.
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And then even when I started at Northeastern, we were using DVDs.
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So you had to go to the huge machine with all the DVD players, and we went in and we'd have to select the right one, put the DVD in and make sure we hit record, then run into the room to start the session.
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And so about a year into working at Northeastern, we started with the digital recordings, which, you know, now we can schedule the recordings, which is huge, to be able to just set those up so they're ready to go at the beginning of the semester.
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And so we can still manually go in if we needed to extend anything or change anything, but we can set those up in advance.
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And so huge changes in that.
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And then in the classroom side of things, I mean, the fact that I can just bring my laptop and everything is projected through my laptop, all of the content for the courses, you know, that's huge.
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And then I can play the videos that we have recorded in our sessions in the clinic and use those for guided observations in the classroom.
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So yeah, technology has changed quite a bit.
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Like Mike is about to say, where, you know, where is it going?
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So I'll cue you up, Mike.
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But before I go there, I the what just cropped into my mind was you know, a lot of universities will invest in this technology.
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And ultimately, the investment is as an educator, you're educating students.
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And so the technology really is designed for to support student success and student learning.
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I'm kind of curious how your students, what their feedback is in using video.
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Well, you know, none of us want to be video recorded.
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Um and um I usually hit record, you know, if we have a Zoom session, I'll hit record after I go off screen.
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And, you know, so nobody wants to be recorded.
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However, they will say that it was it's just vital to their learning because it's so stressful when you are a new clinician and you are working.
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With clients in a session, it's overwhelming.
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And you can come out, it's sort of like giving a speech.
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You come out sometimes and say, I don't even remember what I said.
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I was so nervous.
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You know, I just, I don't know.
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I didn't take my data.
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I didn't follow all the prompts that I thought I was going to do.
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I feel like I really messed up.
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And then, you know, they'll watch and say, Oh, okay, wait.
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:26.160
I did do this.
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:27.200
I did do that.
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:30.079
I just sort of blacked out a little, didn't remember it.
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:42.160
But there's also subtleties that they'll miss and they'll say, I didn't even notice that the child was doing this, or I didn't even notice that the mom had helped at this point with something.
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:47.200
So it's really great that they're able to look at that after the fact.
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:56.480
So as much as they don't love seeing themselves or hearing themselves, they are grateful for the opportunity to go back and check that data.
00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.319
They also have to write notes after every session.
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:06.799
And so, in order for that to be accurate, they really need that, they rely on that feedback after.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:15.920
So virtually every guest that we've had on the podcast, ultimately the topic of AI comes up.
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:29.200
So I'm kind of curious to get your take on what excites you about AI, what concerns you about AI, and how you may be going about thinking about implementing AI if you haven't already.
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:37.200
Yeah, I think AI for treatment materials is fantastic.
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:42.720
You could say, let's say you're working on S's with a child.
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:57.119
You could say, you know, to Chat GPT or whatever format you're doing, Claude, anything, you could say, give me a list of 20 sentences using S in the initial position of the words.
00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:02.559
You could say, give me a story, write a story using S's.
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:07.519
And so, you know, things like that, that's fantastic.
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:12.720
The amount of time that saves is just wonderful.
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:14.880
It's a great tool to have.
00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:26.559
Where we have to be very, very careful is things like if we're saying evidence-based practice, it really has to be evidence-based practice.
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:33.759
And when you plug in for references from AI, you can sometimes get false references.
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:40.400
So you and we check those as supervisors, and you have to make sure that these are actual references.
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:44.319
The other thing is, you know, HIPAA compliance.
00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:51.759
You can't put in a whole bunch of client information and then say, give me a treatment plan for this person.
00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:53.440
That's not okay.
00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:56.240
So you really have to be careful of that.
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:03.440
So there are great parts to it, but there's also parts that, you know, in a clinic you have to be wary of.
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:07.519
Well, I had the opportunity of visiting your clinic last year.
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:09.200
It's a beautiful clinic.
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:16.559
Before we wrap up, Karen, is there anything else that you'd like to share with our listeners?
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:32.480
Maybe those listeners who are maybe just getting into the field of speech and language, uh, pathology, maybe they're looking to set up a video system in their clinic, lessons learned, challenges that you've overcome, things of that sort.
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:33.599
Sure.
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:39.519
Yeah, there I would say for the most part, challenges are fairly minor.
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:44.720
Sometimes it's user error, miss timing, recording, things like that.
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:49.119
Wi-Fi issues can cause a lot of glitches with the system.
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:50.559
So you have to be careful there.
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:59.200
I would say make sure you have whatever video system you're using, you have their support on speed dial just in case.
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:01.440
You have a mic cell phone number too, don't you?
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:03.279
Yeah.
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:08.240
Sometimes it's uh, you know, you'll you'll hear from me, I need you immediately.
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:11.680
You know, this is the I need I need help right the second.
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:13.200
So we definitely need that.
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:15.759
We rely heavily on tech support.
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:25.119
But also you want to make sure that before you have a system that you check into HIPAA compliance.
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:36.640
We had many meetings with our HIPAA compliance office officers as well as with IBS, so that we could make sure that we were being HIPAA compliant with all of our recordings.
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:43.039
And you want to make sure that your IT department can support you.
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:46.480
That's really important before you install a new system.
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:48.880
Well, this has been a great conversation.
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:55.039
How can our listeners get in touch with you if they have uh an interest in learning more about your program?
00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:55.920
Sure.
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:57.599
They can email me.
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:06.319
It's ca dot mcdonnah M-C D-O-N-O-U-G-H at northeastern.edu.
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:12.559
Or I have a team's number, 617-373-7831.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:14.240
Well, thanks, Karen.
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:15.759
We appreciate your time.
00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:16.880
Thanks so much.
00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:17.920
Take care.
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:27.039
OnRecord is a podcast presented by Intelligent Video Solutions, hosted by Mike Anzolone and Carmen Hawk, and produced by Kyle Shellstead.
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:34.319
Find us online at ipivs.com slash onrecord and on social media at Intelligent Video Solutions.
00:00:01.600 --> 00:00:04.080
Welcome to the On Record Podcast.
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This is a podcast where we talk with professionals and subject matter experts from diverse markets that are using video and audio and technology in innovative ways to support their organization's objectives.
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My name is Mike Anslone and my co-host is Carmen Hawke.
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And our guest today is Karen McDonough.
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Karen is the clinical director for the Speech, Language, and Hearing Clinic at Northeastern University.
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Welcome, Karen.
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Thanks for having me.
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So before we hop in, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your professional journey and how you got to Northeastern University?
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Sure.
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I've been a speech language pathologist or SLP for over 30 years.
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I've worked with adults and children of all ages in acute care, inpatient and outpatient rehab, schools, private practice, everywhere.
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And one of my favorite parts of those jobs was always supervising students, clinical fellows, mentoring new staff.
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So when a position opened at Northeastern in 2019 for a clinical supervisor in their SLP grad program, I jumped at the chance to take that position.
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I was a clinical supervisor in the on-campus clinic, the Speech Language and Hearing Center, for a few years and also worked as an off-site clinical coordinator, which connected students with their off-site supervisors.
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And then when the position of SLP clinic director opened, I took on that role.
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And so I'm now the SLP clinic director and an assistant clinical professor.
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And that's where I am today.
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Sounds like you have a supervisor role.
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That's your personal mission of mentorship.
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How does that tie into your organization's mission and what they focus on as the core objectives and outcomes?
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Well, the mission at the Bouvet College of Health Sciences, where we are at Northeastern, it's basically advance academic excellence to promote healthcare to everyone across the lifespan.
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So, yes, mentoring is so important to me and a huge part of that.
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And I know you're going to ask about video technology and where that might fit into that too.
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And um, that plays a huge role in what we do with our teaching and mentoring.
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So, along those lines, Karen, I know that you you won the Supervisor Excellent Award a couple of years in a row, which speaks to how you develop clinicians.
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So, talking about video, can you walk us through how you use video review and feedback feedback loops to coach your students and their clinical placements?
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And what does that process really look like?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So we have really two things.
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We have video in the classroom, and then we have video in the clinic.
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So before any of our students can ever work with the clients, they're they're supposed to have 25 guided observation hours.
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And so, in order to do that, a lot of times they can't get in live to observe sessions and things like that.
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So in the classroom, I can share videos of sessions that we've conducted, both diagnostic and therapeutic.
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I share those with the students, and then we have discussions about them and thinking about what went well and why and what might you do differently as a clinician.
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So we definitely use technology in the classroom.
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But then also in our clinic, we have seven treatment rooms.
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And so each treatment room has a camera set up, and we record every single one of our sessions, diagnostic and therapy.
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And I can be watching live.
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Uh, families can watch live from a room where we have a few of the laptops set up.
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I can watch from home if I needed to check in on somebody.
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But basically, we're watching, taking notes, able to provide student feedback.
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And we record all those sessions too, so that we can review later, and so that the students can review later.
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Our students have to take data as they're working with clients, and that's a real challenge when you're a brand new clinician.
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It's a challenge for anyone, but it's a challenge for brand new clinicians.
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So to be able to play back that video and to then watch how they worked with the client, how the client responded, then they're able to take that and say, okay, what did I do well?
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What do I want to do again next time?
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What kind of data did I maybe miss while I thought I was collecting everything that I was collecting?
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And then what can I do for the next session?
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In those sessions, do you use video as a summative tool or more of a formative tool or maybe a combination of both?
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I'd say, well, probably a combination, but I, you know, the the thing is we use those videos to then teach in the classroom.
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So we're using those to say, and we we try not to use them when we have students still there.
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So I would never take a video of a current student and play it for a classroom of their peers, but we take ones that are maybe a couple of years older and use those in the classroom.
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But also we use those to sit and work with students and talk about, you know, what might help them grow as clinicians themselves.
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And also looking at what the client's doing and what their reactions were and how they can then figure out what they should do for their next sessions.
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I see.
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Can I circle back to a question I have about observation and how when you have family members engaging in observation?
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And Mike, he and I were chatting about this prior to our podcast today.
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How are you supporting family members being able to look into the sessions from a remote location?
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So all of our, well, the majority of our sessions are in person.
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Some of them are telepractice via Zoom.
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So if it's a child, for instance, over Zoom, the family member has to be there.
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A parent or guardian has to be there.
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They have to be present.
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And then most of our sessions are in person, in which the parent or guardian is in person or a family member if they're an adult.
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Someone is usually with them.
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And that person can then watch through the mirror.
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They can do that.
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Or they can sit in our observation room and watch from this the laptops.
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And so I can sit with them and talk about as a clinical supervisor.
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I could sit with them and say, notice what they're doing here.
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This is something you might want to try at home.
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Family members can chime in and say, you know, they've never done this before.
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How do I get them to do this?
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Or she's asking him this, but he thinks she means that.
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Can we go into the room and change things?
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So it really gives us so much opportunity for the families to be involved, not only with the live sessions, if we have to go in and work with them, work with the client.
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If the client, if the child's crying and needs his mom, we can see that and go right in.
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But also for home, what are some of the things that are working well?
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And we can then say this is something you might want to implement at home to encourage them to continue this growth.
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Do you find there's a big difference working with adults and then working with smaller children from an observational perspective?
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Not necessarily from an observational perspective.
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There's always a difference in that you're probably doing more family teaching if it's a child.
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So I might be spending a little more time with the parents during that session, or the parent might be in with them during that session.
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And for many of our adult clients, they are more independent.
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So you don't have to do that.
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And somebody watching might be a family member who's watching but doesn't necessarily need the guidance that you would for a parent or guardian of a small child.
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Digging into Mike's question a little deeper, when we have a child perhaps in a therapy space, do they bounce around a little bit more?
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Is it more of a target moving object kind of uh identify where that individual is going to be and have crystal clear audio to hear them and see their minimal actions or small gestures that tell a story?
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100%.
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I am so grateful for cameras that move.
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There we do have some dead spots.
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You know, there are some spots that child will find that the camera just can't find them, but for the most part, we're able to track them.
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So very often, if like let's say a supervisor is in with the client and the graduate student and the family member and they're all in the therapy room, they might ask me to man the camera so that I'm following the child around.
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So we always want that ability to be able to track them.
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So yes, they do move around, and I'm very grateful for those cameras.
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The microphones are tougher because they hang from the ceiling.
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And so there are some clients who are just incredibly quiet, and that makes a huge difference.
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It's very hard.
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You'll see me sometimes leaning in a lot to just hear exactly what they're saying when I'm supervising because I can't, the mic might not be catching everything that they're saying.
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So that that can be a little bit of a challenge, but for the most part, we just turn our laptops off as high as we can or as low as need be if they're very loud and rowdy.
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But for the most part, yes, they move around and we're able to track them.
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Now I just wanted to ask because it sounds like you're using some of perhaps the features of your video recording solution in the software.
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How important is ease of use in becoming a tool that you're using, whether you have forced to use it or if it's enjoyable to use?
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How important is that in your evaluation?
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It's so important because there's so many things we might miss if we don't have that camera on the trying or the graduate student.
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There are things that we really need to make sure we're capturing, to make sure we're collecting the accurate data, especially for students.
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If they're assessing a child and they need to see some of their, you know, their movements, what are they pointing to in the pictures, things like that.
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If we can't capture that, we might miss that if the student wasn't able to get that data in real time.
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I'm kind of curious, Karen, you as you're referring to your clients and patients, this is this is a service that you're providing the local community.
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How how do you work with the community in terms of you know uh bringing in clients and and and and who do you work with when you when you bring them in?
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So it is a speech language and hearing center.
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So we have audiologists on staff who see many of the clients throughout our community.
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We have veterans coming in, we have just various people throughout the community that come in to have their hearing assessed and get hearing aids.
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Our graduate students are typically not involved in that aspect.
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They are involved in the speech and language side of things.
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So that's where I come into play.
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And it's a lot of word of mouth.
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Many people know that we exist.
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We have an on-campus clinic.
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The rates are very low because it is student clinicians who are all seen by licensed, overseen by licensed supervisors.
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But we also reach out to the community in schools.
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They spread the word.
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We have a summer literacy program, and oftentimes the people that come to that tell other people about that in their school systems, and then they want to come for articulation or language therapy.
00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:15.360
So really it's it's a combination, I'd say, of word in word of mouth in the community and also us reaching out to school systems and nearby hospitals and other facilities.
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You know, one of the questions a lot of our potential clients that we work with ask quite often in a similar type of environment is surrounding patient consent to be recorded and things of that sort.
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How do you go about and what guidance could you provide our listeners in terms of that process?
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:43.200
Yeah, well, we have to have written consent.
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Verbal is definitely not enough.
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We have to have written consent.
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So we have consent forms for all of our clients.
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And sometimes, if they, you know, decide, nope, I don't want to be recorded.
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We do try to explain that this is educational and this is really benefits our students, and it is for their learning.
00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:09.679
It is not that we are, you know, publicizing any of these sessions or anything like that.
00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:11.519
It is really for student learning.
00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:17.679
So almost all usually they they sign the consents and we're fine.
00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:28.080
Some will sign consents that you can use these for other purposes, and some will say it's only for the educational purposes.
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And then some will absolutely refuse and say, I do not want to be recorded at all.
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And we just honor that.
00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:36.159
We don't record those sessions.
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:42.960
And in those situations, do you do you have a special therapy room or you just kind of turn the cameras off?
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:44.320
Cameras off.
00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:49.039
We still have to be able to view them so we just don't record them.
00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:50.080
Gotcha.
00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:50.639
Okay.
00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:52.639
Well, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
00:14:52.960 --> 00:15:06.320
Also, one of the things that I'm hearing more often with our other speech and language clients is they're starting to do a lot of interprofessional work with, let's say, nursing simulation.
00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:09.360
Is that something that your program is getting involved with?
00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:11.360
Huge with that.
00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:12.240
Yes.
00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:13.759
Absolutely.
00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:26.639
I just did one with our SLP students along with pharmacy, where we gave them a case of a client that had um MS and how would they work together?
00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:28.639
How would they work individually?
00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:36.240
And then we actually had an in-person debrief so that they could all meet each other and have discussions, and that was fabulous.
00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:43.440
We have one with the uh physical therapy students that we do in our SIM lab at Northeastern.
00:15:43.600 --> 00:16:07.039
We'll be doing that in a few weeks, where they go in and they work with a a client, a client, a patient who's uh, you know, an actor who comes in and they have aphasia or some other issues going on, and the PT and the SLP students will go in and do an assessment on them.
00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:11.679
So, yes, we we have lots in the works with this.
00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:19.279
Let's see, I'm kind of curious, what does the like the career path look like for a speech and language student?
00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:24.639
So there's so many places you can work, so much you can do.
00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:34.799
And it's one of the things I always love to tell students is you don't have to know exactly what you want to do under the umbrella of speech language pathology.
00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:40.480
You know, you can work in early intervention going into people's homes.
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:59.759
Uh, you can run a private practice or work for a private practice, you can do home care, you can work in an acute care hospital, you can work in inpatient or outpatient rehab, you can do research in a university, you can work in the public schools or collaboratives.
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:06.079
So there are so many different ways you can go under the umbrella of still being an SLP.
00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:09.440
Can I ask, how are you how are you attracting students?
00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:25.200
Obviously, name recognition is huge, but uh for this specific program, I feel like there's a a new layer of media happening with like TikTok videos and speech language pathologists offering content there and just driving interest in this discipline.
00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:29.200
Where do you see this being like a very strong career path to the future?
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:30.720
Tell us more about that.
00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:38.640
Honestly, I you know, I don't think we've had to do a lot to attract students to it.
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:42.240
We get so hundreds of applications every year.
00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:43.359
Hundreds.
00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:46.240
So it is definitely a growing field.
00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:52.000
It's certainly far more applications than when I was, you know, going to school.
00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:57.200
So I don't think it's something that we've had to actively publicize.
00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:08.960
However, you know, we're working at the university, we need to make sure that they understand our program and how our program might be different than another program.
00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:18.559
You know, we are uh in a big city, and you know, there are others that are much more rural and have a smaller amount of students attending.
00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:40.559
We are very fortunate that so many of our alumni work in the area, and that provides us with off-site supervisors for our students, so that there's lots of opportunities for them to go into the hospitals and the schools and various private practices when they have to do their practicums.
00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:43.839
So I think it's more about the program.
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:49.519
That's what we're promoting more than the actual career path.
00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:55.839
In that evolution, you've seen, as you mentioned, the changes and the growth that's happened in this field since you first started.
00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:02.480
When it comes to technology, would you describe how you've seen that evolve since you first started as well?
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:04.079
Oh, sure.
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:12.880
You know, it was technology back then, but we actually recorded our sessions on VCR tapes.
00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:15.759
It was also before HIPAA was a big thing.
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:22.319
So we brought those VCR tapes home to review, which would never be okay at this point.
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:24.799
But we did, we had things on VCR.
00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:29.680
You think about classrooms, they wheeled in a TB with a VCR.
00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:35.039
If they showed something in the classroom, you had projectors and slides.
00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:40.480
And then even when I started at Northeastern, we were using DVDs.
00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:54.640
So you had to go to the huge machine with all the DVD players, and we went in and we'd have to select the right one, put the DVD in and make sure we hit record, then run into the room to start the session.
00:19:54.880 --> 00:20:12.079
And so about a year into working at Northeastern, we started with the digital recordings, which, you know, now we can schedule the recordings, which is huge, to be able to just set those up so they're ready to go at the beginning of the semester.
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:20.640
And so we can still manually go in if we needed to extend anything or change anything, but we can set those up in advance.
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:23.279
And so huge changes in that.
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:36.960
And then in the classroom side of things, I mean, the fact that I can just bring my laptop and everything is projected through my laptop, all of the content for the courses, you know, that's huge.
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:48.400
And then I can play the videos that we have recorded in our sessions in the clinic and use those for guided observations in the classroom.
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:51.680
So yeah, technology has changed quite a bit.
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:54.640
Like Mike is about to say, where, you know, where is it going?
00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:56.960
So I'll cue you up, Mike.
00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:07.920
But before I go there, I the what just cropped into my mind was you know, a lot of universities will invest in this technology.
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:14.559
And ultimately, the investment is as an educator, you're educating students.
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:21.920
And so the technology really is designed for to support student success and student learning.
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:27.920
I'm kind of curious how your students, what their feedback is in using video.
00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:33.759
Well, you know, none of us want to be video recorded.
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:44.079
Um and um I usually hit record, you know, if we have a Zoom session, I'll hit record after I go off screen.
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:47.119
And, you know, so nobody wants to be recorded.
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:59.759
However, they will say that it was it's just vital to their learning because it's so stressful when you are a new clinician and you are working.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.079
With clients in a session, it's overwhelming.
00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:06.480
And you can come out, it's sort of like giving a speech.
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:09.359
You come out sometimes and say, I don't even remember what I said.
00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:10.880
I was so nervous.
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:13.359
You know, I just, I don't know.
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:14.799
I didn't take my data.
00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:18.160
I didn't follow all the prompts that I thought I was going to do.
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:20.720
I feel like I really messed up.
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:24.799
And then, you know, they'll watch and say, Oh, okay, wait.
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:26.160
I did do this.
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:27.200
I did do that.
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:30.079
I just sort of blacked out a little, didn't remember it.
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:42.160
But there's also subtleties that they'll miss and they'll say, I didn't even notice that the child was doing this, or I didn't even notice that the mom had helped at this point with something.
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:47.200
So it's really great that they're able to look at that after the fact.
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:56.480
So as much as they don't love seeing themselves or hearing themselves, they are grateful for the opportunity to go back and check that data.
00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.319
They also have to write notes after every session.
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:06.799
And so, in order for that to be accurate, they really need that, they rely on that feedback after.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:15.920
So virtually every guest that we've had on the podcast, ultimately the topic of AI comes up.
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:29.200
So I'm kind of curious to get your take on what excites you about AI, what concerns you about AI, and how you may be going about thinking about implementing AI if you haven't already.
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:37.200
Yeah, I think AI for treatment materials is fantastic.
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:42.720
You could say, let's say you're working on S's with a child.
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:57.119
You could say, you know, to Chat GPT or whatever format you're doing, Claude, anything, you could say, give me a list of 20 sentences using S in the initial position of the words.
00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:02.559
You could say, give me a story, write a story using S's.
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:07.519
And so, you know, things like that, that's fantastic.
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:12.720
The amount of time that saves is just wonderful.
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:14.880
It's a great tool to have.
00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:26.559
Where we have to be very, very careful is things like if we're saying evidence-based practice, it really has to be evidence-based practice.
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:33.759
And when you plug in for references from AI, you can sometimes get false references.
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:40.400
So you and we check those as supervisors, and you have to make sure that these are actual references.
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:44.319
The other thing is, you know, HIPAA compliance.
00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:51.759
You can't put in a whole bunch of client information and then say, give me a treatment plan for this person.
00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:53.440
That's not okay.
00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:56.240
So you really have to be careful of that.
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:03.440
So there are great parts to it, but there's also parts that, you know, in a clinic you have to be wary of.
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:07.519
Well, I had the opportunity of visiting your clinic last year.
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:09.200
It's a beautiful clinic.
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:16.559
Before we wrap up, Karen, is there anything else that you'd like to share with our listeners?
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:32.480
Maybe those listeners who are maybe just getting into the field of speech and language, uh, pathology, maybe they're looking to set up a video system in their clinic, lessons learned, challenges that you've overcome, things of that sort.
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:33.599
Sure.
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:39.519
Yeah, there I would say for the most part, challenges are fairly minor.
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:44.720
Sometimes it's user error, miss timing, recording, things like that.
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:49.119
Wi-Fi issues can cause a lot of glitches with the system.
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:50.559
So you have to be careful there.
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:59.200
I would say make sure you have whatever video system you're using, you have their support on speed dial just in case.
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:01.440
You have a mic cell phone number too, don't you?
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:03.279
Yeah.
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:08.240
Sometimes it's uh, you know, you'll you'll hear from me, I need you immediately.
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:11.680
You know, this is the I need I need help right the second.
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:13.200
So we definitely need that.
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:15.759
We rely heavily on tech support.
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:25.119
But also you want to make sure that before you have a system that you check into HIPAA compliance.
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:36.640
We had many meetings with our HIPAA compliance office officers as well as with IBS, so that we could make sure that we were being HIPAA compliant with all of our recordings.
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:43.039
And you want to make sure that your IT department can support you.
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:46.480
That's really important before you install a new system.
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:48.880
Well, this has been a great conversation.
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:55.039
How can our listeners get in touch with you if they have uh an interest in learning more about your program?
00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:55.920
Sure.
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:57.599
They can email me.
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:06.319
It's ca dot mcdonnah M-C D-O-N-O-U-G-H at northeastern.edu.
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:12.559
Or I have a team's number, 617-373-7831.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:14.240
Well, thanks, Karen.
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:15.759
We appreciate your time.
00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:16.880
Thanks so much.
00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:17.920
Take care.
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:27.039
OnRecord is a podcast presented by Intelligent Video Solutions, hosted by Mike Anzolone and Carmen Hawk, and produced by Kyle Shellstead.
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:34.319
Find us online at ipivs.com slash onrecord and on social media at Intelligent Video Solutions.
